From flt.johnson at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 00:01:45 2011
From: flt.johnson at gmail.com (Fletcher Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode literals and byte string interpretation.
References: <8de0e9b7-aaac-44a4-8a07-9c1a20bfc3eb@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4eaa545f$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7371ad5a-83f1-45cf-800e-987812f9c6a1@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 28, 3:06?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:05:13 -0700, Fletcher Johnson wrote:
> > If I create a newUnicodeobject u'\x82\xb1\x82\xea\x82\xcd' how does
> > this creation process interpret the bytes in the byte string?
>
> It doesn't, because there is no byte-string. You have created aUnicode
> object from aliteralstring ofunicodecharacters, not bytes. Those
> characters are:
>
> Dec Hex ?Char
> 130 0x82 ?
> 177 0xb1 ?
> 130 0x82 ?
> 234 0xea ?
> 130 0x82 ?
> 205 0xcd ?
>
> Don't be fooled that all of the characters happen to be in the range
> 0-255, that is irrelevant.
>
> > Does it
> > assume the string represents a utf-16 encoding, at utf-8 encoding,
> > etc...?
>
> None of the above. It assumes nothing. It takes a string of characters,
> end of story.
>
> > For reference the string is ??? in the 'shift-jis' encoding.
>
> No it is not. The way to get aunicodeliteralwith those characters is
> to use aunicode-aware editor or terminal:
>
> >>> s = u'???'
> >>> for c in s:
>
> ... ? ? print ord(c), hex(ord(c)), c
> ...
> 12371 0x3053 ?
> 12428 0x308c ?
> 12399 0x306f ?
>
> You are confusing characters with bytes. I believe that what you are
> thinking of is the following: you start with a byte string, and then
> decode it intounicode:
>
> >>> bytes = '\x82\xb1\x82\xea\x82\xcd' ?# not u'...'
> >>> text = bytes.decode('shift-jis')
> >>> print text
>
> ???
>
> If you get the encoding wrong, you will get the wrong characters:
>
> >>> print bytes.decode('utf-16')
>
> ???
>
> If you start with theUnicodecharacters, you can encode it into various
> byte strings:
>
> >>> s = u'???'
> >>> s.encode('shift-jis')
>
> '\x82\xb1\x82\xea\x82\xcd'>>> s.encode('utf-8')
>
> '\xe3\x81\x93\xe3\x82\x8c\xe3\x81\xaf'
>
> --
> Steven

Thanks Steven. You are right. I was confusing characters with bytes.


From pmaupin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 00:03:59 2011
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:03:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2346.1320113568.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6cc3dd78-3f08-4fe8-92b5-56a6b23b4006@es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 31, 9:12?pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:

> I would claim that a well-written (in C) translate function, without
> using the delete option, should be much quicker than any python loop,
> even if it does copy the data.

Are you arguing with me?  I was agreeing with you, I thought, that
translate would be faster than a regex.  I also pointed out that the
delete function was available as , but OTOH, that might be a little
slow because I think it does the deletion before the translate.  I
think I'd just do something like this:

>>> transtab = ''.join(' ' if 32 <= x <= 126 else chr(x) for x in range(256))
>>> 'abc\x05\def\x0aghi'.translate(transtab).replace(' ', '')
'\x05\n'


Regards,
Pat


From abhishek.vit at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 01:31:53 2011
From: abhishek.vit at gmail.com (Abhishek Pratap)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:31:53 -0700
Subject: Module for Python and SGE interaction
Message-ID: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys

I shud mention I am relative new to the language. Could you please let me
know based on your experience which module could help me with farm out jobs
to our existing clusters(we use SGE here) using python.

Ideally I would like to do the following.

1. Submit #N jobs to cluster
2. monitor their progress
3. When all #N finishes, push another set of jobs

Thanks!
-Abhi
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  1 02:56:51 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Nov 2011 06:56:51 GMT
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:44:45 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

[...]
>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>      for c in text:
>>          if c not in LEGAL:
>>              return False
>>      return True
> 
> If text is 3.x bytes, this does not work ;-). OP did not specify bytes
> or unicode or Python version.

The OP specified *string*. Whether that's a byte-string in Python 2, or a 
unicode string in Python 3, it will still work, so long as both `text` 
and `LEGAL` are strings.

[steve at sylar ~]$ python2 -c "print 'a' in 'abc'"  # both byte strings
True
[steve at sylar ~]$ python2 -c "print u'a' in u'abc'"  # both unicode strings
True
[steve at sylar ~]$ python3 -c "print('a' in 'abc')"  # both unicode strings
True

Mixing bytes and characters may or may not do what you expect.

[steve at sylar ~]$ python2 -c "print 'a' in u'abc'"  # one of each
True

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is open for debate :)


>> Algorithmically, that's as efficient as possible:
> 
> This is a bit strange since you go on to explain that it is inefficient
> -- O(n*k) where n = text length and k = legal length -- whereas below is
> O(n).

But since k is a constant, O(nk) is O(n).

When using Big Oh notation, it is acceptable to hand-wave away a lot of 
detail. For example, it's common to assume that n+7, n//7 and n**7 all 
take the same constant amount of time, which is patently untrue: division 
and exponentiation both require more work than addition. In this case, 
relative to the size of the input text, both a linear string search and a 
constant-time hash lookup are O(1). That doesn't imply that they 
*literally* take constant time.

[...]
>> Since all() is guaranteed to keep short-cut semantics, that will be as
>> fast as possible in Python,
> 
> A dangerous statement to make.

I like living dangerously :)

> 'c in legal' has to get hash(c) and look
> that up in the hash table, possible skipping around a bit if t If text
> is byte string rather than unicode, a simple lookup 'mask[c]', where
> mask is a 0-1 byte array, should be faster (see my other post).

Oooh, clever! I like! It's not necessary to assume bytes, nor is it 
necessary to create a bitmask the size of the entire Unicode range. 
Here's a version for strings (bytes or unicode in Python 2, unicode in 
Python 3):

LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))

# Untested
def is_ascii_text(text):
    for c in text:
        n = ord(c)
        if n >= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
    return True


Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)

I *suspect*, even with any optimizations, that this will be slower than 
the version using a set.

> On my
> new Pentium Win 7 machine, it is -- by albout 5%. For 100,000,000 legal
> bytes, a minimum of 8.69 versus 9.17 seconds.

On my old Linux box, I get the opposite result: set lookup is a tiny bit 
faster, coincidentally also by almost 5%.


>>> from time import time
>>> legal_set = frozenset(range(32, 128))
>>> text = b'a' * 100000000
>>> t = time(); all(c in legal_set for c in text); time()-t
True
27.174341917037964
>>> 
>>> legal_ray = 128 * b'\1'
>>> t = time(); all(legal_ray[c] for c in text); time()-t
True
28.39691996574402




-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  1 03:10:50 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Nov 2011 07:10:50 GMT
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2346.1320113568.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eaf9b7a$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:12:26 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> I would claim that a well-written (in C) translate function, without
> using the delete option, should be much quicker than any python loop,
> even if it does copy the data.

I think you are selling short the speed of the Python interpreter. Even 
for short strings, it's faster to iterate over a string in Python 3 than 
to copy it with translate:

>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> t1 = Timer('for c in text: pass', 'text = "abcd"')
>>> t2 = Timer('text.translate(mapping)', 
...     'text = "abcd"; mapping = "".maketrans("", "")')
>>> min(t1.repeat())
0.450606107711792
>>> min(t2.repeat())
0.9279451370239258


> Incidentally, on the Pentium family,
> there's a machine instruction for that, to do the whole loop in one
> instruction (with rep prefix).

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a machine instruction for copying an 
entire terabyte of data in one step. Since the OP explicitly said he was 
checking text up to a TB in size, whatever solution is used has to scale 
well.



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov  1 05:21:14 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:21:14 +0100
Subject: Efficient,
	built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII chars outside ASCII
	32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2346.1320113568.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9b7a$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j8odka$39e$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:12:26 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
>> I would claim that a well-written (in C) translate function, without
>> using the delete option, should be much quicker than any python loop,
>> even if it does copy the data.
> 
> I think you are selling short the speed of the Python interpreter. Even
> for short strings, it's faster to iterate over a string in Python 3 than
> to copy it with translate:
> 
>>>> from timeit import Timer
>>>> t1 = Timer('for c in text: pass', 'text = "abcd"')
>>>> t2 = Timer('text.translate(mapping)',
> ...     'text = "abcd"; mapping = "".maketrans("", "")')
>>>> min(t1.repeat())
> 0.450606107711792
>>>> min(t2.repeat())
> 0.9279451370239258

Lies, damn lies, and benchmarks ;)

Copying is fast:

>>> Timer("text + 'x'", "text='abcde '*10**6").timeit(100)
1.819761037826538
>>> Timer("for c in text: pass", "text='abcde '*10**6").timeit(100)
18.89239192008972

The problem with str.translate() (unicode.translate() in 2.x) is that it 
needs a dictionary lookup for every character. However, if like the OP you 
are going to read data from a file to check whether it's (a subset of) 
ascii, there's no point converting to a string, and for bytes (where a 
lookup table with the byte as an index into that table can be used) the 
numbers look quite different:

>>> t1 = Timer("for c in text: pass", "text = b'abcd '*10**6")
>>> t1.timeit(100)
15.818882942199707
>>> t2 = Timer("text.translate(mapping)", "text = b'abcd '*10**6; mapping = 
b''.maketrans(b'', b'')")
>>> t2.timeit(100)
2.821769952774048




From wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 08:03:17 2011
From: wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com (pyman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 05:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
Message-ID: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

hello, I need some idea to prove two formula is same. if N = 3, these
formula are same each other. each formula has 3 input . To prove this,
drawing shape or anything would be possible. how can I do this? please
give me your idea!

for example:
N = 1 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
value and each formula's output are different.
N = 2 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
value and each formula's output are different.
N = 3 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
value and each formula's output are SAME.

Wonjun, Choi


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 08:17:30 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:17:30 -0400
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
In-Reply-To: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EAFE35A.7080106@davea.name>

On 11/01/2011 08:03 AM, pyman wrote:
> hello, I need some idea to prove two formula is same. if N = 3, these
> formula are same each other. each formula has 3 input . To prove this,
> drawing shape or anything would be possible. how can I do this? please
> give me your idea!
>
> for example:
> N = 1 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
> value and each formula's output are different.
> N = 2 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
> value and each formula's output are different.
> N = 3 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
> value and each formula's output are SAME.
>
> Wonjun, Choi
Python doesn't have formulae, it has functions and methods.  So you have 
to describe more completely what kind of formula you have, math, 
physics, chemistry?  And how is one different than the next?  And how 
can a formula with 3 input use four values, N, a,. b, and c ?

Please be more specific, and maybe somebody can help.

-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 09:01:18 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:01:18 -0400
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
In-Reply-To: <CANO3Hx1ZQ5cMN2Aysje3wVmFOLymJaXhdfu_eRh86PDWB8g4Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>	<4EAFE35A.7080106@davea.name>
	<CANO3Hx1ZQ5cMN2Aysje3wVmFOLymJaXhdfu_eRh86PDWB8g4Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EAFED9E.1070707@davea.name>

(You forgot to do a REPLY-ALL, so that your message didn't get sent to 
the list)

>>
>>>   Python doesn't have formulae, it has functions and methods.  So you have
>> to describe more completely
>
> what kind of formula you have, math, physics, chemistry?
>
> the formula is related to math.
>
>
>>   And how is one different than the next?
>
>
> these formula are completely different each other  and it is custom
> formula.
> for example, when I put 3 input into A formula, it outputs 1 result.
> and when I put 3 input into B formula, it outputs 1 result
> so each formula have 3 input for example
>
> A formula : f(x,y,z)=3x+4y+2z+3
> B formula : f(k,j,t)=2k+3j+2t+1
>
> this formula is different each other which has 3 input.
> and have only 1 result
>
> and if I loop this formula from 0 to N(for example : N = 3)
> if N=1, the result will be different each other. and N=2 too.
> but when N=3, the result will be same each other.
>
Since N isn't a parameter to either function, the results can never change.

> so I wanted to prove this. by drawing shape or something so that children
> can be understand easily.
>
>
>>
>

I'm still trying to help you clarify your problem, but you are getting 
much closer.  Those two formulae take three arguments (although you 
should use the same name for the arguments if the comparison is to mean 
anything).  N doesn't come into it at all.

Perhaps by N you mean tuples like  (2,1,1) and (4,2,1), and you want to 
know for which tuples the result will be the same.

That could be represented by some 4 dimensional graph, but I don't know 
any graphing package that could show it, in python or otherwise.


-- 

DaveA


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  1 11:04:26 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:04:26 +0100
Subject: sending more then 2 messages to SocketServer fasils
In-Reply-To: <7699e647-98fb-4a6e-aff4-1694d06fd705@h39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <j8b3n3$hi9$1@news.albasani.net>
	<7699e647-98fb-4a6e-aff4-1694d06fd705@h39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb00a7a$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Hi people!
I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
Socketserver. Why is that?!


Here the Server:

import SocketServer
from ast import literal_eval

class MKTest(object):
    DSX = []
    MKTestInst = None

    def __init__(self,Daten):
        MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)

    def getObj(Daten):
        if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
            MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
        return MKTest.MKTestInst

    getObj = staticmethod(getObj)

class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        data = self.request.recv(1024)
        data = literal_eval(data)
        #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
        MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        data = MKTest.DSX
        data = '%s' % data
        self.request.send(data)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
    server.serve_forever()



and the client:

import socket

data = [100]
received = [None,None]
HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.close()

print received



The result is:

['[100]', '']



who can help me solving this problem



Tamer


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 11:05:16 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
Message-ID: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

I want to assign a list of variables:
locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]

updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:

for order in range(len(Orders)):
	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]

This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
pythonesque way using map or comprehension?

-- Gnarlie


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  1 11:07:09 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:07:09 +0100
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
Message-ID: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Hi people!
I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
Socketserver. Why is that?!


Here the Server:

import SocketServer
from ast import literal_eval

class MKTest(object):
    DSX = []
    MKTestInst = None

    def __init__(self,Daten):
        MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)

    def getObj(Daten):
        if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
            MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
        return MKTest.MKTestInst

    getObj = staticmethod(getObj)

class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        data = self.request.recv(1024)
        data = literal_eval(data)
        #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
        MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        data = MKTest.DSX
        data = '%s' % data
        self.request.send(data)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
    server.serve_forever()



and the client:

import socket

data = [100]
received = [None,None]
HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.close()

print received



The result is:

['[100]', '']



who can help me solving this problem



Tamer



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov  1 11:22:02 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:22:02 +0100
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j8p2oo$p3m$1@dough.gmane.org>

Gnarlodious wrote:

> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
> 
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
> 
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
> 
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?

for order, place in zip(Orders, locus):
    order.locus = place




From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 11:31:38 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 11:31:38 -0400
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB010DA.3040400@davea.name>

On 11/01/2011 11:05 AM, Gnarlodious wrote:
> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> 	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?
>
> -- Gnarlie


You can do that with the enumerate function, or with zip
          for index, instance in enumerate(Orders):
                instance.locus = locus[index]

          for instance, place  in zip(Orders, locus):
                instance.locus = locus[index]

It would be clearer if you used singular for individual items, and 
plural for the collections,

loci  [-2, 21, ....
orders = [list of order objects ...]

for order, locus in zip(orders, loci):
       order.locus = locus


-- 

DaveA



From christopherbl at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 11:33:28 2011
From: christopherbl at gmail.com (cpbl)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: modified legend appears out of view! It didn't used to. MWE included.
Message-ID: <9794fb7a-db8f-48bd-8254-405f4cf23794@s32g2000prj.googlegroups.com>

I seem to be using
Python 2.7.2+
(latest update of Ubuntu). The following code used to work nicely, but
now gives me an unreadable legend. The legend is showing up mostly out
of view below and to the left of the figure. Does that happen for you?
Is there a regression bug, or am I doing something wrong?
The MWE below is adapted from a function I wrote to allow addition of
extra comments within a legend box below the normal legend details.
Thanks for any help!
Chris

!/usr/bin/python

import pylab as plt

from matplotlib.offsetbox import TextArea, VPacker
comments='foodlefish'
plt.figure(1)
plt.plot([1,2],[3,4], label='test')
lh=plt.legend(fancybox=True,shadow=False,title='Foodle',loc='best')
if lh:
    lh.get_frame().set_alpha(0.5)
    fontsize=lh.get_texts()[0].get_fontsize()
    legendcomment=TextArea('\n'.join(comments),
textprops=dict(size=fontsize))
    lh._legend_box = VPacker(pad=5,
                             sep=0,
                             children=[lh._legend_box,legendcomment],
                             align="right")  # Or should it be centre?
    lh._legend_box.set_figure(plt.gcf())

plt.show()


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov  1 11:37:20 2011
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:37:20 +0000
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>

On 01/11/11 15:05, Gnarlodious wrote:
> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> 	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?
>

for obj, val in zip(Orders, locus):
      obj.locus = val


I'm not sure how worthwhile it is converting the above to a list 
comprehension (when the list would just be thrown away). Having said 
that the call to zip creates an unnecessary list. You could use izip or 
maybe,

for i, val in enumerate(locus):
     Orders[i].locus = val

Duncan


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Nov  1 11:40:52 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:40:52 +0100
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4hg5o8-kt3.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 01.11.2011 16:05, schrieb Gnarlodious:
> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> 	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?

Use enumerate:

for object, index in enumerate(Orders):
     object.locus = locus[index]


I'm not 100% I understood your description though, but it looks like 
this would do what you want and be descriptive at the same time.

Uli


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov  1 11:57:02 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:57:02 +0100
Subject: C API: Making a context manager
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Chris Kaynor, 31.10.2011 19:34:
> I am currently rewritting a class using the Python C API to improve
> performance of it, however I have not been able to find any
> documentation about how to make a context manager using the C API.

You should take a look at Cython. It makes these things *so* much easier.


> The code I am working to produce is the following (its a method of a class):
>
> @contextlib.contextmanager
> def connected(self, *args, **kwargs):
> 	connection = self.connect(*args, **kwargs)
> 	try:
> 		yield
> 	finally:
> 		connection.disconnect()

You can use the above in Cython code unmodified, and it's likely going to 
be good enough (depending on what kind of connection we are talking about 
here).

In case that's also performance critical, however, it's likely faster to 
spell it out as a class, i.e.

     ...
         def connected(self, *args, **kwargs):
             return ConnectionManager(self, args, kwargs)


     cdef class ConnectionManager:
         cdef object args, kwargs, connection, connect

         def __init__(self, connector, args, kwargs):
             self.args, self.kwargs = args, kwargs
             self.connect = connector.connect
         def __enter__(self):
             self.connection = self.connect(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
         def __exit__(self, *exc):
             self.connection.disconnect()
             return True # or False? I always forget which means what

Not that much longer either.

Stefan



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 12:13:21 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
In-Reply-To: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <14258539.1164.1320164001987.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt10>

MKTest.getObj(data[0]) will return the same object on every call(with the same data that was initialized 1'st time). Any Daten parameter after the 1'st call is ignored.


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Nov  1 12:19:46 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:19:46 -0700
Subject: C API: Making a context manager
In-Reply-To: <j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxunm73q5CCHw2nN7mD_S90JRKLWA2EL9M+-k=G6ULjMkg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
> Chris Kaynor, 31.10.2011 19:34:
>>
>> I am currently rewritting a class using the Python C API to improve
>> performance of it, however I have not been able to find any
>> documentation about how to make a context manager using the C API.
>
> You should take a look at Cython. It makes these things *so* much easier.

Unfortunately, all of the code has to be fully compatible with CPython
2.6 - it needs to function inside of Maya, which has CPython 2.6
embedded, and to which we do not have the source code.

While not all parts of our code base are used inside of Maya, most of
the performance-critical items are to some degree or another.

In this particular case, the connected context manager is not heavily
used (outside of unittests) and itself is not performance critical,
but the much of the rest of the package (and thus the class) it is
part of is.

Chris


From chen.1381 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 12:57:56 2011
From: chen.1381 at gmail.com (Wei)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
Message-ID: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I got several buggy things going on.
First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
two classes.
Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.


From chen.1381 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 13:01:21 2011
From: chen.1381 at gmail.com (Wei)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
References: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <202fcd81-b383-4909-8112-33999df09512@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 12:57?pm, Wei <chen.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I got several buggy things going on.
> First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
> two classes.
> Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
> folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
> P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.

Also, I am using 64 bit win7 professional.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov  1 13:03:12 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:03:12 +0100
Subject: C API: Making a context manager
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxunm73q5CCHw2nN7mD_S90JRKLWA2EL9M+-k=G6ULjMkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>	<j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CALvWhxunm73q5CCHw2nN7mD_S90JRKLWA2EL9M+-k=G6ULjMkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8p8oh$fbn$1@dough.gmane.org>

Chris Kaynor, 01.11.2011 17:19:
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Chris Kaynor, 31.10.2011 19:34:
>>> I am currently rewritting a class using the Python C API to improve
>>> performance of it, however I have not been able to find any
>>> documentation about how to make a context manager using the C API.
>>
>> You should take a look at Cython. It makes these things *so* much easier.
>
> Unfortunately, all of the code has to be fully compatible with CPython
> 2.6 - it needs to function inside of Maya, which has CPython 2.6
> embedded, and to which we do not have the source code.

This sounds like you're misunderstanding what Cython is. Cython compiles 
(and optimises) your Python code into fast C code that uses the C-API (and 
that can happily call into external C code etc.). So you get basically the 
same (and sometimes better) speed, but without all the C-level hassle and 
maintenance issues. The C code that Cython generates is fully compatible 
with CPython 2.4 up to the latest 3.3, and that includes 2.6.


> While not all parts of our code base are used inside of Maya, most of
> the performance-critical items are to some degree or another.
>
> In this particular case, the connected context manager is not heavily
> used (outside of unittests) and itself is not performance critical,
> but the much of the rest of the package (and thus the class) it is
> part of is.

In that case, I advise you to leave the context manager code as is, and 
just compile the module that you are trying to speed up (and which, IIUC is 
currently written in Python) with Cython, then optimise the parts of it 
that need more speed by injecting static typing. Here's a quick howto:

http://docs.cython.org/src/quickstart/cythonize.html

Stefan



From abhishek.vit at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 13:31:34 2011
From: abhishek.vit at gmail.com (Abhishek Pratap)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:31:34 -0700
Subject: Module for Python and SGE interaction
In-Reply-To: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJbA1KBtVANc6VisqDFttXZ1Z0M==BkigVeSHRnVHct1DHQpwg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys

Pushing this one again just in case it was missed last night.

Best,
-Abhi

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Abhishek Pratap <abhishek.vit at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hey Guys
>
> I shud mention I am relative new to the language. Could you please let me
> know based on your experience which module could help me with farm out jobs
> to our existing clusters(we use SGE here) using python.
>
> Ideally I would like to do the following.
>
> 1. Submit #N jobs to cluster
> 2. monitor their progress
> 3. When all #N finishes, push another set of jobs
>
> Thanks!
> -Abhi
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov  1 13:56:25 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:56:25 +0000
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
In-Reply-To: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4EB032C9.5060104@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 01/11/2011 15:07, MrSmile wrote:
> Hi people!
> I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
> Socketserver. Why is that?!
>
>
> Here the Server:
>
> import SocketServer
> from ast import literal_eval
>
> class MKTest(object):
>      DSX = []
>      MKTestInst = None
>
>      def __init__(self,Daten):
>          MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)
>
>      def getObj(Daten):
>          if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
>              MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
>          return MKTest.MKTestInst
>
>      getObj = staticmethod(getObj)
>
> class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
>      def handle(self):
>          data = self.request.recv(1024)
>          data = literal_eval(data)
>          #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>          #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
>          MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>          data = MKTest.DSX
>          data = '%s' % data
>          self.request.send(data)
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
>      server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
>      server.serve_forever()
>
[snip]

I think that in the 'handle' function you should be putting the code in
a 'while' loop:

      def handle(self):
          # The client has opened a socket to the server.
          while True:
              data = self.request.recv(1024)
              if not data:
                  # The client has closed the socket to the server.
                  break
              ...


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov  1 14:54:09 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 1 Nov 2011 18:54:09 GMT
Subject: Efficient,
	built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII chars outside ASCII
	32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))
> 
> # Untested
> def is_ascii_text(text):
>     for c in text:
>         n = ord(c)
>         if n >= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>     return True
> 
> 
> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)
> 

#untested
LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
MASK = [True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False for n in range(128)]

# Untested
def is_ascii_text(text):
  try:
    return all(MASK[ord(c)] for c in text)
  except IndexError:
    return False


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From th982a at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:12:46 2011
From: th982a at googlemail.com (Tamer Higazi)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:12:46 +0100
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
In-Reply-To: <14258539.1164.1320164001987.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt10>
References: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<14258539.1164.1320164001987.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt10>
Message-ID: <4EB044AE.1020207@googlemail.com>

Am 01.11.2011 17:13, schrieb Miki Tebeka:
> MKTest.getObj(data[0]) will return the same object on every call(with the same data that was initialized 1'st time). Any Daten parameter after the 1'st call is ignored.


Not true!
The singleton object has nothing todo. Here one more example for you:

Client:

import socket

data = ['Tamer']
received = [None,None]
HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.close()

print received


Server:

import SocketServer
from ast import literal_eval

class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        data = self.request.recv(1024)
        data = literal_eval(data)
        data = '%s' % data[0]
        self.request.send('%s %s' % ('Halloaaa',data))

if __name__ == "__main__":
    HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
    server.serve_forever()



with it's result:

['Halloaaa Tamer', '']



the 2nd argument from the list is EMPTY. Now tell me why?!


From th982a at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:14:57 2011
From: th982a at googlemail.com (Tamer Higazi)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:14:57 +0100
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
In-Reply-To: <202fcd81-b383-4909-8112-33999df09512@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<202fcd81-b383-4909-8112-33999df09512@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB04531.8090207@googlemail.com>

buy wingIDE or use PyDEV

If you tell me that you are using IronPython then buy wingIDE, there you
can make use of the .net classes in python too.


Tamer


Am 01.11.2011 18:01, schrieb Wei:
> On Nov 1, 12:57 pm, Wei <chen.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I got several buggy things going on.
>> First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
>> two classes.
>> Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
>> folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
>> P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.
> 
> Also, I am using 64 bit win7 professional.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:25:42 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:25:42 -0600
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=MMthvhgc7+gSSOpdq4+-uCtnDy5JZOZbea09W0TJYJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Patrick Maupin <pmaupin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 5:52?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>?For instance, split() will split on vertical tab,
>> which is not one of the characters the OP wanted.
>
> That's just the default behavior. ?You can explicitly specify the
> separator to split on. ?But it's probably more efficient to just use
> translate with deletechars.

As I understood it, the point of using the default behavior was to
merge whitespace, which cannot be done when the separator is
explicitly specified.  For example:

>>> "     ".split()
[]
>>> "     ".split(" ")
['', '', '', '', '', '']

It is easy to check that the first is empty.  The second is a bit more
annoying and is O(n).  Your point about deletechars is good, though,
definitely better than a regular expression.


From tres.bailey at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:26:19 2011
From: tres.bailey at gmail.com (tres.bailey at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17209707.1599.1320175579736.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak12>

Hi Gabriele,

I'm not an Alchemy expert, but I have used the ColumnProperty of the model/column objects to solve this problem in the past.  So to get the column name for the description column in your example above, you would use the following syntax:

Country.description.property.columns[0].name

And this would avoid having to use additional objects than the one you're working on.  The ColumnProperty object (and the Column object attribute it contains) will provide you with information such as column name, type, default vals, primary_key, and nullable.  You could also get more generic by iterating through your model object's __table__ attribute and grab each column:

[col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]


More information can be found here:
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/schema.html?highlight=schema.column#sqlalchemy.schema.Column
and
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/internals.html?highlight=columnproperty#sqlalchemy.orm.properties.ColumnProperty



From pacopyc at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:27:16 2011
From: pacopyc at gmail.com (pacopyc)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
Message-ID: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?

Thanks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov  1 15:29:50 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:29:50 +0000
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4EB048AE.2030301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 01/11/2011 18:54, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>
>> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
>> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))
>>
>> # Untested
>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>      for c in text:
>>          n = ord(c)
>>          if n>= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>>      return True
>>
>>
>> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)
>>
>
> #untested
> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
> MASK = [True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False for n in range(128)]
>
Instead of:

     True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False

why not:

     if chr(n) in LEGAL

> # Untested
> def is_ascii_text(text):
>    try:
>      return all(MASK[ord(c)] for c in text)
>    except IndexError:
>      return False
>


From Ric at rdo  Tue Nov  1 15:34:46 2011
From: Ric at rdo (Ric at rdo)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:34:46 -0500
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
Message-ID: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>


I am trying to create a small application in wxPython and would like
to ask for some help.

I am trying to display folders and  files in ListCtrl but sorted first
folders followed by files (like in a file manager style) but not sure
how to do this? Would I need to do this in code somehow or ListCtrl
would help me?

I am trying to do this and learn at the same time.

Would appreciate any advice. Thank you. 


From tres.bailey at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:37:42 2011
From: tres.bailey at gmail.com (tres.bailey at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>

Sorry for the repost, if it does in fact repost.

I'm no SQLAlchemy expert, but I have used the Table and Column attribute objects from the model object to solve a similar problem in the past.  You can use the following syntax to do it:

[col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]

which should return you a list of ['cancelled', 'description'].  You can find more information on the attributes you are using here:
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/schema.html?highlight=schema.column#sqlalchemy.schema.Column

and 
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/schema.html?highlight=schema.table#sqlalchemy.schema.Table


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov  1 15:47:02 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:47:02 +0100
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <j8pibn$pk7$1@dough.gmane.org>

python at bdurham.com, 31.10.2011 20:54:
> Wondering if there's a fast/efficient built-in way to determine
> if a string has non-ASCII chars outside the range ASCII 32-127,
> CR, LF, or Tab?
>
> I know I can look at the chars of a string individually and
> compare them against a set of legal chars using standard Python
> code (and this works fine), but I will be working with some very
> large files in the 100's Gb to several Tb size range so I'd
> thought I'd check to see if there was a built-in in C that might
> handle this type of check more efficiently.
>
> Does this sound like a use case for cython or pypy?

Cython. For data of that size, likely read from a fast local RAID drive I 
guess, you certainly don't want to read (part of) the file into a memory 
buffer, then copy that memory buffer into a Python bytes string, and then 
search it character by character, copying each of the characters into a new 
string object just to compare them.

Instead, you'd want to use low-level I/O to read a not-so-small part of the 
file into a memory buffer, run through it looking for unwanted characters, 
and then read the next chunk, without any further copying. The comparison 
loop could look like this, for example:

     cdef unsigned char current_byte
     cdef unsigned char* byte_buffer = libc.stdlib.malloc(BUFFER_SIZE)

     # while read chunk ...
     for current_byte in byte_buffer[:BUFFER_SIZE]:
         if current_byte < 32 or current_byte > 127:
             if current_byte not in b'\t\r\n':
                 raise ValueError()

What kind of I/O API you use is up to you. You may want to use the 
functions declared in libc.stdio (ships with Cython).

Stefan



From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 16:08:50 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:08:50 -0400
Subject: understand program used to create file
In-Reply-To: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB051D2.4000204@davea.name>

On 11/01/2011 03:27 PM, pacopyc wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?
>
> Thanks
If you're on Linux, just use the process module to invoke "file" and 
examine the results.

If you're not, then be more specific about the environment.

-- 

DaveA



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Nov  1 16:22:25 2011
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:22:25 -0300
Subject: When I use Python under Windows. I found some file handles are
	not closed,
References: <CAE2XoE-6Tn32qZZSQeG+m_hJY4-D4NBa7KLV+zmpyeTTkAbVhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.v4aavnp7x6zn5v@lepton>

En Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:57:15 -0300, ???(Yonggang Luo)   
<luoyonggang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> escribi?:

> How did detecting where those handlers are created to tracing it and  
> close
> it.
> Mainly because I was using C binding library(subvertpy) and file is not
> closed.

A better place to ask is python-list at python.org

Please include the Python version you're using. Also, a small, complete,  
runnable code example showing the problem would be very valuable. Usually,  
in building such example, you may well find out where your problem is.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov  1 16:47:26 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 1 Nov 2011 20:47:26 GMT
Subject: Efficient,
	built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII chars outside ASCII
	32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2365.1320176247.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9F90D37881384duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> On 01/11/2011 18:54, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>>
>>> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
>>> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range
(128))
>>>
>>> # Untested
>>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>>      for c in text:
>>>          n = ord(c)
>>>          if n>= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>>>      return True
>>>
>>>
>>> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)
>>>
>>
>> #untested
>> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
>> MASK = [True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False for n in range(128)]
>>
> Instead of:
> 
>      True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False
> 
> why not:
> 
>      if chr(n) in LEGAL
> 
I think you meant to drop the 'if' also.

MASK = [chr(n) in LEGAL for n in range(128)]

But yes, I was concentrating on the function body rather than the 
initialisation.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 16:53:47 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 07:53:47 +1100
Subject: understand program used to create file
In-Reply-To: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqtsso7hn-9Okqa4K61QoDEoxy6Ub=zwhaJyYDtHrT07Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:27 AM, pacopyc <pacopyc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?
>

Technically, you can't find out just from the file what it was that
created it. But if you mean "figure out what type of file each one is"
(eg recognize an ODF, a PDF, a DOC, etc), then the easiest way is to
read in the first few bytes of the file and look for well-known magic
numbers[1]. As Dave says, Linux comes with a command that does exactly
that (and a bit more), called 'file'.

ChrisA
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_number_(programming)


From joncle at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  1 16:58:42 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c1fb959d-f523-423b-853b-53af7697673f@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 7:27?pm, pacopyc <paco... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?
>
> Thanks

My suggestion would be the same as DaveA's.

This gives you the format it was *written* in.
(Saved a blank OO document as 95/97/XP Word DOC under Linux)

jon at forseti:~/filetest$ file *
saved-by-OO.doc: CDF V2 Document, Little Endian, Os: Windows, Version
1.0, Code page: -535, Author: jon , Revision Number: 0, Create Time/
Date: Mon Oct 31 20:47:30 2011

I'd be impressed if you could discover the program that did *write*
it; I'd imagine you'd need something that understood some meta-data in
the format (if the format has a kind of 'created_by' field, for
instance), or depend on nuisances which give away that a certain
program wrote data in another's native format.

Assuming the former, what might be possible:

1) Grab a "magic number" lookup list
2) Grab 8 (I think that should be all that's needed, but hey ummm..)
bytes from the start of each file
3) Look it up in the "magic number" list
4) If you got something great, if not compare 7, 6, 5, 4 bytes...
etc... until you get a hit or bail out

(Or just find a Windows port of 'file')

HTH

Jon.


From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 17:16:39 2011
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:16:39 -0500
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
In-Reply-To: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwosLLVjf8cSsh6oG2in50qg5PRnWBv7k5kTwspTYF7F7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:57, Wei <chen.1381 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I got several buggy things going on.
> First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
> two classes.
> Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
> folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
> P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Yes, I use it. If you're having issues with it, you should report them
at http://pytools.codeplex.com/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  1 17:33:34 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:33:34 -0400
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>
Message-ID: <j8pojo$7jl$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/2011 11:37 AM, duncan smith wrote:
> On 01/11/11 15:05, Gnarlodious wrote:
>> I want to assign a list of variables:
>> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>>
>> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>>
>> for order in range(len(Orders)):
>> Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>>
>> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
>> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?
>>
>
> for obj, val in zip(Orders, locus):
> obj.locus = val
>
>
> I'm not sure how worthwhile it is converting the above to a list
> comprehension (when the list would just be thrown away). Having said
> that the call to zip creates an unnecessary list.

Not in Py 3

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 17:35:11 2011
From: wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com (pyman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAFE35A.7080106@davea.name>
	<CANO3Hx1ZQ5cMN2Aysje3wVmFOLymJaXhdfu_eRh86PDWB8g4Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2351.1320152486.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <965c33e2-8ba4-4278-9517-730ce4639492@d33g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

first of all, thank you for trying to understand my issue.

do you know sigma? I omitted sigma it means sum...


From pauldavidmena at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 18:13:25 2011
From: pauldavidmena at gmail.com (extraspecialbitter)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
Message-ID: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

I'm still trying to write that seemingly simple Python script to print
out network interfaces (as found in the "ifconfig -a" command) and
their speed ("ethtool <interface>").  The idea is to loop for each
interface and
print out its speed.  I'm looping correctly, but have some issues
parsing the output for all interfaces except for the "pan0"
interface.  I'm running on eth1, and the "ifconfig -a" command also
shows an eth0, and of course lo.  My script is trying to match on the
string "Speed", but I never seem to successfully enter the "if"
clause.

First, here is the output of "ethtool eth1":

=================

Settings for eth1:
	Supported ports: [ TP ]
	Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
	Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
	Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
	Advertised pause frame use: No
	Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
	Speed: 100Mb/s
	Duplex: Full
	Port: Twisted Pair
	PHYAD: 1
	Transceiver: internal
	Auto-negotiation: on
	MDI-X: off
	Supports Wake-on: pumbag
	Wake-on: g
	Current message level: 0x00000001 (1)
	Link detected: yes

=================

The script *should* match on the string "Speed" and then assign "100Mb/
s" to a variable, but is never getting past the second if statement
below:

=================

#!/usr/bin/python

# Quick and dirty script to print out available interfaces and their
speed

# Initializations

output = " Interface: %s Speed: %s"
noinfo = "(Speed Unknown)"
speed  = noinfo

import os, socket, types, subprocess

fp = os.popen("ifconfig -a")
dat=fp.read()
dat=dat.split('\n')
for line in dat:
    if line[10:20] == "Link encap":
       interface=line[:9]
       cmd = "ethtool " + interface
       gp = os.popen(cmd)
       fat=gp.read()
       fat=fat.split('\n')
       for line in fat:
           if line[0:6] == "Speed":
               try:
                   speed=line[8:]
               except:
                   speed=noinfo
print output % (interface, speed)

=================

Again, I appreciate everyone's patience, as I'm obviously I'm a python
newbie.  Thanks in advance!


From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 18:27:02 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:27:02 +0000
Subject: Chaco for real-time plot of PySerial data
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWGhLBz=a-69Qae0CauMWR8XuLtpRXofSuf6JG053U18rw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I asked this question on the enthought chaco mailing list some time last by
have yet to receive a reply. Thought I'd ask here to see if anyone could
shed some light on things for me. I have been considering using chaco /
traits for close to a year now and am finally biting the bullet so to
speak. What I would really like to do to begin with is to make a real-time
plotting application which gets its data from the serial port. Can anyone
please point me in the right direction for doing this?

Since I didn't get a reply on the chaco list I'm now thinking it might be a
dangerous route to go down since it will be difficult to get help. Any
recommendations?

Thanks very much,

Jack

-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:14:50 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
In-Reply-To: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>

Why not use the build in wx.FileDialog?

Also, have a look at the demo that comes with wxPython. It has an example with a sortable list control.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:19:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
In-Reply-To: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>

In my box, there are some spaces (tabs?) before "Speed". IMO re.search("Speed", line) will be a more robust.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  1 19:24:34 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Nov 2011 23:24:34 GMT
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb07fb2$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 05:03:17 -0700, pyman wrote:

> hello, I need some idea to prove two formula is same.

Impossible. As you explained further on, they are different formula. If 
they are different, they aren't the same. This has nothing to do with 
Python.

In another message, you tell us:

"these formula are completely different each other"

and give the formula:

A formula : f(x,y,z)=3x+4y+2z+3
B formula : f(k,j,t)=2k+3j+2t+1

Perhaps what you mean is that you want to solve for when the two formula 
give equal results? Here's a simpler example:

f(x) = 2x + 1
g(x) = 3x - 2

Solving for x:

f(x) = g(x)
2x + 1 = 3x - 2
1 = 3x - 2 - 2x
1 + 2 = 3x - 2x
3 = x

so the solution is x = 3, f(3) = 7 = g(3).

This is also not easy, since you have SIX variables (x, y, z, k, j, t) 
and only two equations. This is known as an under-determined system, and 
means that there is no exact solution. Perhaps something like Mathematica 
could do something useful with it?

Is there some way you can use the same variables in each formula? For 
example, if x=t, y=j, z=k (or some other combination), then you have a 
simpler three-dimensional problem:

f(x,y,z) = 3x + 4y + 2z + 3
g(x,y,z) = 2z + 3y + 2x + 1

which is still under-determined, but not as badly (now you have three 
variables and only two equations).

In any case, you *might* be able to solve this using numpy. 

http://numpy.scipy.org/


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  1 19:27:44 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:27:44 -0400
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j8pv9r$mm4$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/2011 2:56 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:44:45 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> [...]
>>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>>       for c in text:
>>>           if c not in LEGAL:
>>>               return False
>>>       return True
>>
>> If text is 3.x bytes, this does not work ;-). OP did not specify bytes
>> or unicode or Python version.
>
> The OP specified *string*.

A. People sometimes use 'string' loosely, to include text stored in bytes.

B. We are solving slightly different problems. The OP specified 
terabytes of ascii text on disk that he wants to check for 
contamination. For that purpose, using 3.x, it is sensible to read the 
data in binary mode into bytes objects rather than decoding into 
unicode. (The exception would be if the text uses some 7 bit encoding 
like UTF-7. But that is relatively unlikely for disk storage.)

It is irrelevant to that specified purpose whether one calls the 
internal implementation type a 'string' or not. While my 3.2 bytes 
version was only slightly faster, given data in memory, adding decoding 
time for your string version and any other extra overhead for text mode 
reading would make the bytes version look even better.

I am pretty sure the best disk reading speed would come from reading 
blocks of 4k*N, for some N, in binary mode. If the Python code were 
compliled (with Cython, for instance), the process might be input bound, 
depending on the system.

>> 'c in legal' has to get hash(c) and look
>> that up in the hash table, possible skipping around a bit if t If text
>> is byte string rather than unicode, a simple lookup 'mask[c]', where
>> mask is a 0-1 byte array, should be faster (see my other post).
>
> Oooh, clever! I like! It's not necessary to assume bytes, nor is it
> necessary to create a bitmask the size of the entire Unicode range.

You are right; I had been thinking it would be.

> Here's a version for strings (bytes or unicode in Python 2, unicode in
> Python 3):
>
> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))
>
> # Untested
> def is_ascii_text(text):
>      for c in text:
>          n = ord(c)
>          if n>= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>      return True

> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)

The test for n >= len() can be accomplished with try:..except IndexError 
around the loop construct. Then the explicit loop can be replaced with 
any(), as before.

> I *suspect*, even with any optimizations, that this will be slower than
> the version using a set.

If you suspect that because of the need with true 'strings' for 
MASK[ord(c)] instead of MASK[c], you are right. Redoing the test runs 
with unicode strings instead of bytes, the set lookup time is about the 
same (9.2 seconds) whereas the 100 000 000 ord() calls add over 4 
seconds to the MASK lookups, raising them up to 13.1 seconds.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:35:10 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:35:10 -0600
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
In-Reply-To: <5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=7R_GkiDDMFkC8LH9DCTH4Cbj7_FxJ6H0enDzHrtOmFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:
> In my box, there are some spaces (tabs?) before "Speed". IMO re.search("Speed", line) will be a more robust.

Or simply:

if "Speed" in line:

There is no need for a regular expression here.  This would also work
and be a bit more discriminating:

if line.strip().startswith("Speed")

BTW, to the OP, note that your condition (line[0:6] == "Speed") cannot
match, since line[0:6] is a 6-character slice, while "Speed" is a
5-character string.

Cheers,
Ian


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  1 19:41:28 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:41:28 -0400
Subject: Module for Python and SGE interaction
In-Reply-To: <CAJbA1KBtVANc6VisqDFttXZ1Z0M==BkigVeSHRnVHct1DHQpwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJbA1KBtVANc6VisqDFttXZ1Z0M==BkigVeSHRnVHct1DHQpwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8q03i$mm4$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/2011 1:31 PM, Abhishek Pratap wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Abhishek Pratap
> <abhishek.vit at gmail.com <mailto:abhishek.vit at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hey Guys
>
>     I shud mention I am relative new to the language. Could you please
>     let me know based on your experience which module could help me with
>     farm out jobs to our existing clusters(we use SGE here) using python.
>
>     Ideally I would like to do the following.
>
>     1. Submit #N jobs to cluster
>     2. monitor their progress
>     3. When all #N finishes, push another set of jobs

Have you searched with Google? on pypi.python.org? with what keywords?

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From Ric at rdo  Tue Nov  1 21:13:17 2011
From: Ric at rdo (Ric at rdo)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:13:17 -0500
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
Message-ID: <p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>

On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:14:50 -0700 (PDT), Miki Tebeka
<miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:

>Why not use the build in wx.FileDialog?
>
>Also, have a look at the demo that comes with wxPython. It has an example with a sortable list control.

Thanks for responding, How would wx.FileDialog help me in this case? I
am trying to display files and directories in the ListCtrl in sorted
way. Folders first followed by files. 


From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov  1 21:23:26 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:23:26 -0400
Subject: sending more then 2 messages to SocketServer fasils
References: <j8b3n3$hi9$1@news.albasani.net>
	<7699e647-98fb-4a6e-aff4-1694d06fd705@h39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb00a7a$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <roy-B2F1AB.21232601112011@news.panix.com>

In article <4eb00a7a$0$6560$9b4e6d93 at newsspool4.arcor-online.net>,
 MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:

> Hi people!
> I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
> Socketserver. Why is that?!

There's a lot of confusing code here.  It would help when asking these 
kinds of questions to reduce it down to the smallest possible example 
that demonstrates your problem.  I'm not sure what this MTTest class is 
all about, but I'm guessing it's not essential to demonstrate what's 
going wrong.  Why not just send strings back and forth?

Also, it would help to have names that made more sense.  I have no idea 
what a MKTest is, or what DSX means.  Names like that make it more 
difficult to read your code and understand what you probably intended.

In any case, I think the problem is a basic misunderstanding of how 
stream sockets work.  You're sending hunks of data with send() calls and 
expecting that the recv() calls will get the same data.  That works with 
UDP (datagram sockets), but not TCP.

There are no record boundaries in TCP.  The system could buffer up the 
data from multiple send() calls and deliver them in a single recv().  Or 
break up one send() into multiple recv() calls.  Or any combination.  In 
any particular situation, the system will probably do whatever is most 
inconvenient, confusing, and damaging to your program :-)

My recommendation is to strip out all the test gunk and get it down to 
the bare network calls.  Send some strings back and forth, and print out 
what each send() call is sending and what each recv() call receives.  
Hopefully, things will start to make more sense then.


> 
> 
> Here the Server:
> 
> import SocketServer
> from ast import literal_eval
> 
> class MKTest(object):
>     DSX = []
>     MKTestInst = None
> 
>     def __init__(self,Daten):
>         MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)
> 
>     def getObj(Daten):
>         if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
>             MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
>         return MKTest.MKTestInst
> 
>     getObj = staticmethod(getObj)
> 
> class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
>     def handle(self):
>         data = self.request.recv(1024)
>         data = literal_eval(data)
>         #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>         #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
>         MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>         data = MKTest.DSX
>         data = '%s' % data
>         self.request.send(data)
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
>     server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
>     server.serve_forever()
> 
> 
> 
> and the client:
> 
> import socket
> 
> data = [100]
> received = [None,None]
> HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
> sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
> sock.send('%s' % data)
> received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
> sock.send('%s' % data)
> received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
> sock.close()
> 
> print received
> 
> 
> 
> The result is:
> 
> ['[100]', '']
> 
> 
> 
> who can help me solving this problem
> 
> 
> 
> Tamer


From cosmo_general at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 22:59:10 2011
From: cosmo_general at yahoo.com (Muddy Coder)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:59:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How filecmp walk into subdirectories?
Message-ID: <d0c0b3f4-ce8b-489f-9334-2b5d807f6ed4@es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Folks,


I tried to compare two directories, each with hundreds of files in
multiple level subdirectories, to find out the different files. I used
filecmp module to the job as:


comp=filecmp.dircmp(adir, bdir)
comp.report()

It worked, and printed out the identical and different files. However,
it did not go through the directory trees, just did the job in the
first level. I wonder somebody can help? Thanks in advance!


Cosmo


From gordon at panix.com  Tue Nov  1 23:14:44 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 03:14:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How filecmp walk into subdirectories?
References: <d0c0b3f4-ce8b-489f-9334-2b5d807f6ed4@es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j8qcj4$51e$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <d0c0b3f4-ce8b-489f-9334-2b5d807f6ed4 at es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> Muddy Coder <cosmo_general at yahoo.com> writes:

> I tried to compare two directories, each with hundreds of files in
> multiple level subdirectories, to find out the different files. I used
> filecmp module to the job as:

> comp=filecmp.dircmp(adir, bdir)
> comp.report()

> It worked, and printed out the identical and different files. However,
> it did not go through the directory trees, just did the job in the
> first level. I wonder somebody can help? Thanks in advance!

report() only prints information on the first-level contents of the two
directores, as you saw.  It doesn't do subdirectories.

If you want subdirectories, use report_full_closure().

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 23:22:57 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a70f8d22-6158-4e57-bfa2-6676ff50931b@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 2, 5:27?am, pacopyc <paco... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?

Word documents store metadata inside of them, one field of which is
the program used to create them. This shows you how to use pywin32 to
access them:

http://www.galalaly.me/index.php/2011/09/use-python-to-parse-microsoft-word-documents-using-pywin32-library/

This won't be a foolproof solution, unfortunately. A random
examination of doc files shows that not all of them have the required
field set.


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  2 00:02:40 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:02:40 +0900
Subject: Question about metaclass
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I want to define a special class which groups functions, like:

    class Greepting(FuncGroup):
        def hello():          # no self, no @staticmethod!
            print("Hello!")
        def goodbye():        # no self, no @staticmethod!
            print("Good Bye!")

    Geeting.hello():    #=> "Hello!"
    Geeting.goodbye():  #=> "Good Bye!"


I tried the following code which converts instance mthods into
static method automatically, but I don't get result what I want.
(python 2.5.5)

    import sys
    from types import FunctionType

    class MetaClass(type):
        def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct):
            ## converts instance methods to static methods automatically
            for k in dct.keys():
                v = dct[k]
                if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
                    dct[k] = staticmethod(v)
                    print("*** debug: dct[%r] = %r" % (k, dct[k]))
#=> <staticmethod object at 0x100378d38>

    class FuncGroup(object):
        __metaclass__ = MetaClass

    class Greeting(FuncGroup):
        def hello():
            print("Hello!")
        def goodbye():
            print("Good Bye!")

    print("*** type(Greeting.hello)=%r" % type(Greeting.hello)
#=> <type 'instancemthod'>
    print("*** type(Greeting.goodbye)=%r" % type(Greeting.goodbye)
#=> <type 'instancemthod'>


Could you give me advice?

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 00:40:17 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:40:17 -0600
Subject: Question about metaclass
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=Q-1=2Dcs5yvURE+UXES1OOvcUW5AdbFpa=qJ2tU-dZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> I tried the following code which converts instance mthods into
> static method automatically, but I don't get result what I want.
> (python 2.5.5)
>
> ? ?import sys
> ? ?from types import FunctionType
>
> ? ?class MetaClass(type):
> ? ? ? ?def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?## converts instance methods to static methods automatically
> ? ? ? ? ? ?for k in dct.keys():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?v = dct[k]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?dct[k] = staticmethod(v)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print("*** debug: dct[%r] = %r" % (k, dct[k]))

If you want to customize the dict you need to do it in __new__, not
__init__.  By the time __init__ is called, the class has already been
created.

class MetaClass(type):
    def __new__(mcs, name, bases, dict):
        for k, v in dict.items():
            if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
                dict[k] = staticmethod(v)
        return type.__new__(mcs, name, bases, dict)

If you were using a more recent Python version, I would suggest using
a class decorator instead of a metaclass.  You can still do this in
Python 2.5, but the syntax will be more awkward.

# Python 2.6+
def FuncGroup(class_):
    for k, v in class_.__dict__.items():
        if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
            setattr(class_, k, staticmethod(v))
    return class_

@FuncGroup
class Greeting(object):
    def hello():
        print("Hello!")

# Python 2.5
class Greeting(object):
    def hello():
        print("Hello!")
Greeting = FuncGroup(Greeting)

Cheers,
Ian


From pmaupin at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 00:42:04 2011
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question about metaclass
References: <mailman.2376.1320206569.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2dbd03f2-c93e-4457-8d57-9cc2ebe5223f@k10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 11:02?pm, Makoto Kuwata <k... at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to define a special class which groups functions, like:
>
> ? ? class Greepting(FuncGroup):
> ? ? ? ? def hello(): ? ? ? ? ?# no self, no @staticmethod!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Hello!")
> ? ? ? ? def goodbye(): ? ? ? ?# no self, no @staticmethod!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Good Bye!")
>
> ? ? Geeting.hello(): ? ?#=> "Hello!"
> ? ? Geeting.goodbye(): ?#=> "Good Bye!"
>
> I tried the following code which converts instance mthods into
> static method automatically, but I don't get result what I want.
> (python 2.5.5)
>
> ? ? import sys
> ? ? from types import FunctionType
>
> ? ? class MetaClass(type):
> ? ? ? ? def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ## converts instance methods to static methods automatically
> ? ? ? ? ? ? for k in dct.keys():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? v = dct[k]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dct[k] = staticmethod(v)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print("*** debug: dct[%r] = %r" % (k, dct[k]))
> #=> <staticmethod object at 0x100378d38>
>
> ? ? class FuncGroup(object):
> ? ? ? ? __metaclass__ = MetaClass
>
> ? ? class Greeting(FuncGroup):
> ? ? ? ? def hello():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Hello!")
> ? ? ? ? def goodbye():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Good Bye!")
>
> ? ? print("*** type(Greeting.hello)=%r" % type(Greeting.hello)
> #=> <type 'instancemthod'>
> ? ? print("*** type(Greeting.goodbye)=%r" % type(Greeting.goodbye)
> #=> <type 'instancemthod'>
>
> Could you give me advice?
>
> --
> regards,
> makoto kuwata

I think you need to unwrap the instance methods first:

>>> class foo(object):
...     def bar():
...         print "Hi there"
...
>>> foo.bar2 = staticmethod(foo.bar.im_func)
>>>
>>> foo.bar2()
Hi there
>>>



From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 00:52:16 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:52:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>
	<mailman.2371.1320183309.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99202d33-48d2-4148-942c-bd2210971b28@s35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 3:33?pm, Terry Reedy wrote:

> > for obj, val in zip(Orders, locus):
> > obj.locus = val
>
> > I'm not sure how worthwhile it is converting the above to a list
> > comprehension (when the list would just be thrown away). Having said
> > that the call to zip creates an unnecessary list.
>
> Not in Py 3

Thanks for that tip, this works well in Py3.

-- Gnarlie


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  2 00:58:41 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:58:41 +0900
Subject: Question about metaclass
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=Q-1=2Dcs5yvURE+UXES1OOvcUW5AdbFpa=qJ2tU-dZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=Q-1=2Dcs5yvURE+UXES1OOvcUW5AdbFpa=qJ2tU-dZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RsP-q71hGKWkae+f=FpHAcqtDNxgQXpZzvEtj2UMu6=nQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you want to customize the dict you need to do it in __new__, not
> __init__. ?By the time __init__ is called, the class has already been
> created.
>
> class MetaClass(type):
> ? ?def __new__(mcs, name, bases, dict):
> ? ? ? ?for k, v in dict.items():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?dict[k] = staticmethod(v)
> ? ? ? ?return type.__new__(mcs, name, bases, dict)

Great! It works perfectly!


> If you were using a more recent Python version, I would suggest using
> a class decorator instead of a metaclass. ?You can still do this in
> Python 2.5, but the syntax will be more awkward.
>
> # Python 2.6+
> def FuncGroup(class_):
> ? ?for k, v in class_.__dict__.items():
> ? ? ? ?if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?setattr(class_, k, staticmethod(v))
> ? ?return class_
>
> @FuncGroup
> class Greeting(object):
> ? ?def hello():
> ? ? ? ?print("Hello!")
>
> # Python 2.5
> class Greeting(object):
> ? ?def hello():
> ? ? ? ?print("Hello!")
> Greeting = FuncGroup(Greeting)

This is so good method.
Thank you, Ian.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:50:48 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to mix-in __getattr__ after the fact?
References: <4630c4d0-86bc-4295-8bbb-6f58415191c8@v15g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAAF264.1050307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2298.1319855210.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a66161ab-7f86-43da-840e-c159ea4390f5@v8g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 31, 8:01?am, dhyams <dhy... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for all of the responses; everyone was exactly correct, and
> obeying the binding rules for special methods did work in the example
> above. ?Unfortunately, I only have read-only access to the class
> itself (it was a VTK class wrapped with SWIG), so I had to find
> another way to accomplish what I was after.
>
Please share what you found as the other way.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Nov  2 07:04:35 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:04:35 +0100
Subject: __init__ with multiple list values
In-Reply-To: <1acb0d4c-069b-4356-8a9e-cd5640023c2b@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <1acb0d4c-069b-4356-8a9e-cd5640023c2b@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB123C3.3040406@sequans.com>

Gnarlodious wrote:
> Initializing a list of objects with one value:
>
> class Order:
>  def __init__(self, ratio):
>   self.ratio=ratio
>  def __call__(self):
>   return self.ratio
>
> ratio=[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> Orders=[Order(x) for x in ratio]
>
>
> But now I want to __init__ with 3 values:
>
> class Order:
>  def __init__(self, ratio, bias, locus):
>   self.ratio=ratio
>   self.bias=bias
>   self.locus=locus
>  def __call__(self):
>   return self.ratio, self.bias, self.locus
>
> ratio=[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> bias=[True, False, True, False, True]
> locus=['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E']
> Orders=[Order(x,y,z) for x,y,z in [ratio, bias, locus]]
>
>   
>>>> ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 3)
>>>>         
>
> How to do it?
>
> -- Gnarlie
>   
I'm a little off topic but you may want to avoid having inconsistent 
interfaces for your class methods, especially when it comes to special 
methods like __init__ and __call__.

Having __call__ return a tuple with different length depending on the 
initialization of the object is a bad idea. You will surely end up in 
unpacking error in the future.

Same things for your attributes, the presence of bias is conditioned by 
the object creation... Very bad idea :o)

o1 = Order([1,2,3])
o2 = Order([1,2,3], [4, 5, 6, [7, 8, 9])

print o1.bias
 > Unknown attribute

ratio, bias, locus = o2.call()

ratio, bias, locus = o1.call()
 > Unpacking error


You could do the following :

class Order:
 def __init__(self, ratio, bias=None, locus=None):
  self.ratio=ratio
  self.bias=bias
  self.locus=locus
 def __call__(self):
  return self.ratio, self.bias, self.locus


It would allow you to create your object with just the ratio and keep a 
consistent interface. Unpacking the __call__ return will never fail, and 
if you're interested in keeping only ratios, then you can write

ratio, _, _ = o1.call()

JM

PS : accessing attributes using the __call__ method sounds like a little 
bit of magic for the lazy guy :o) People expect something to be executed 
when calling an object, not getting its attributes. It would be better 
to stick with the classic way : o1.ratio


From pauldavidmena at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 08:44:40 2011
From: pauldavidmena at gmail.com (extraspecialbitter)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 05:44:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>
	<mailman.2374.1320190543.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf369507-d09c-4a5f-a93a-27d136ad7636@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 7:35?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Miki Tebeka <miki.teb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In my box, there are some spaces (tabs?) before "Speed". IMO re.search("Speed", line) will be a more robust.
>
> Or simply:
>
> if "Speed" in line:
>
> There is no need for a regular expression here. ?This would also work
> and be a bit more discriminating:
>
> if line.strip().startswith("Speed")
>
> BTW, to the OP, note that your condition (line[0:6] == "Speed") cannot
> match, since line[0:6] is a 6-character slice, while "Speed" is a
> 5-character string.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian

Ian,

Replacing my regular expression with line.strip().startswith did the
trick.  Thanks for the tip!

Paul


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 10:03:09 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:03:09 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
Message-ID: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com>

In our current setup, the script in charge to run our applications also
scan all the directories and if it finds any "pyc" file without the 
corresponding
module, it removes it.

This was done because when you rename something, the old "pyc" remains
there and can cause problems.

Is it the only way possible to scan through and remove all of them or is
there a smarter way?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Nov  2 10:39:19 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:39:19 +0100
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
In-Reply-To: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB15617.4000509@sequans.com>

extraspecialbitter wrote:
> I'm still trying to write that seemingly simple Python script to print
> out network interfaces (as found in the "ifconfig -a" command) and
> their speed ("ethtool <interface>").  The idea is to loop for each
> interface and
> print out its speed.  I'm looping correctly, but have some issues
> parsing the output for all interfaces except for the "pan0"
> interface.  I'm running on eth1, and the "ifconfig -a" command also
> shows an eth0, and of course lo.  My script is trying to match on the
> string "Speed", but I never seem to successfully enter the "if"
> clause.
>
> First, here is the output of "ethtool eth1":
>
> =================
>
> Settings for eth1:
> 	Supported ports: [ TP ]
> 	Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
> 	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
> 	Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
> 	Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
> 	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
> 	Advertised pause frame use: No
> 	Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
> 	Speed: 100Mb/s
> 	Duplex: Full
> 	Port: Twisted Pair
> 	PHYAD: 1
> 	Transceiver: internal
> 	Auto-negotiation: on
> 	MDI-X: off
> 	Supports Wake-on: pumbag
> 	Wake-on: g
> 	Current message level: 0x00000001 (1)
> 	Link detected: yes
>
> =================
>
> The script *should* match on the string "Speed" and then assign "100Mb/
> s" to a variable, but is never getting past the second if statement
> below:
>
> =================
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> # Quick and dirty script to print out available interfaces and their
> speed
>
> # Initializations
>
> output = " Interface: %s Speed: %s"
> noinfo = "(Speed Unknown)"
> speed  = noinfo
>
> import os, socket, types, subprocess
>
> fp = os.popen("ifconfig -a")
> dat=fp.read()
> dat=dat.split('\n')
> for line in dat:
>     if line[10:20] == "Link encap":
>        interface=line[:9]
>        cmd = "ethtool " + interface
>        gp = os.popen(cmd)
>        fat=gp.read()
>        fat=fat.split('\n')
>        for line in fat:
>            if line[0:6] == "Speed":
>                try:
>                    speed=line[8:]
>                except:
>                    speed=noinfo
> print output % (interface, speed)
>
> =================
>
> Again, I appreciate everyone's patience, as I'm obviously I'm a python
> newbie.  Thanks in advance!
>   
Hi, without starting a flamewar about regular expression, they sometimes 
can become usefull and really simplify code:

s1 = """eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:1d:09:2b:d2:be
          inet addr:192.168.200.176  Bcast:192.168.200.255  
Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::21d:9ff:fe2b:d2be/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:297475688 errors:0 dropped:7 overruns:0 frame:2
          TX packets:248662722 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:2795194692 (2.6 GiB)  TX bytes:2702265420 (2.5 GiB)
          Interrupt:17

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:5595504 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:5595504 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:1601266268 (1.4 GiB)  TX bytes:1601266268 (1.4 GiB)

"""

import re

itfs = [section for section in s1.split('\n\n') if section and section 
!= '\n'] # list of interfaces sections, filter the empty sections

for itf in itfs:
    match = re.search('^(\w+)', itf) # search the word at the begining 
of the section
    interface = match and match.group(1)
    match = re.search('MTU:(\d+)', itf) # search for the field MTU: and 
capture its digital value
    mtu = (match and match.group(1)) or 'MTU not found'
    print interface, mtu


 >>> eth0 1500
 >>> lo 16436

If you're not familiar with python regexp, I would advise to use 
kodos.py (google it), it really does help.
The strong point about the code above, is that it removes all the 
tedious if then else logic and the arbitrary slice indexes.

JM

PS : I cannot test the 'Speed' because it's absent from my ifconfig 
display, but you should be able to figure it out :o)


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov  2 11:03:48 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:03:48 +0100
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>

Andrea Crotti wrote:

> In our current setup, the script in charge to run our applications also
> scan all the directories and if it finds any "pyc" file without the
> corresponding
> module, it removes it.
> 
> This was done because when you rename something, the old "pyc" remains
> there and can cause problems.
> 
> Is it the only way possible to scan through and remove all of them or is
> there a smarter way?

Switch to Python3.2 ;)

http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/whatsnew/3.2.html#pep-3147-pyc-repository-directories
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3147/#case-4-legacy-pyc-files-and-source-less-imports




From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 11:08:48 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
In-Reply-To: <p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <28740627.642.1320246528964.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>

wx.FileDialog shows files and directories. If you need the user to pick one, this is the standard way. Otherwise, if you need custom view on the file system then probably list control is the right way to go. Again, the demo has a working example with sortable list control.


From nospam at a.it  Wed Nov  2 11:15:27 2011
From: nospam at a.it (Hanss)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:15:27 +0000
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
Message-ID: <EfWdndUP0Z0NwyzTnZ2dnUVZ8783t52d@siminn.is>

Il 01/11/2011 19.37, tres.bailey at gmail.com ha scritto:
>
> I'm no SQLAlchemy expert, but I have used the Table and Column attribute objects from the model object to solve a similar problem in the past.  You can use the following syntax to do it:
>
> [col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]

Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!


From nospam at a.it  Wed Nov  2 11:17:37 2011
From: nospam at a.it (Gabriele)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:17:37 +0000
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
Message-ID: <EfWdndcP0Z2PwizTnZ2dnUVZ87-qKgAA@siminn.is>

Il 01/11/2011 19.37, tres.bailey at gmail.com ha scritto:
> Sorry for the repost, if it does in fact repost.
>
> I'm no SQLAlchemy expert, but I have used the Table and Column attribute objects from the model object to solve a similar problem in the past.  You can use the following syntax to do it:
>
> [col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]

Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!
Gabriele


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 11:45:43 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:45:43 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2011 03:03 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Switch to Python3.2 ;)

Yes I saw that and it would be great, unfortunately we're stuck with 
Python 2.5 :O
for some more time.

Anyway now the code that does it is a recursive thing ilke
def _clean_orphaned_pycs(self, directory, simulate=False):
     """Remove all the pyc files without a correspondent module
     """
     files = listdir(directory)
     # going down the tree recursively (like os.walk)
     for x in files:
         if x.endswith('.pyc'):
             py_file = x.split('.pyc')[0] + '.py'

             if (not simulate) and (py_file not in files):
                 deletable_pyc = path.join(directory, x)
                 print 'DELETING pyc %s as it has no py %s' % \
                     (deletable_pyc, py_file)
                 remove(deletable_pyc)

         #TODO: move out these special cases
         if path.isdir(path.join(directory, x)) \
             and x != '.svn' \
             and not x.endswith('.egg-info'):

             self._clean_orphaned_pycs(path.join(directory, x))


Can be done much better probably with os.walk or os.path.walk,
any suggestions?


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Nov  2 12:06:37 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:06:37 -0700
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsOQkrVm9tteouB_ro2y6Xtyx2mwew+0FuOtHR6KjZoDg@mail.gmail.com>

If you can at least upgrade to Python 2.6, another option, if you
don't mind losing the byte code caching all together (it may worsen
load times, however probably not significantly), you can set
PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE to prevent the writing of .pyc files.
Alternatively, again in 2.6+, you can also specify the -B command-line
argument. See http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE
and http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-unittest-discover-B

Chris



On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/02/2011 03:03 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
>>
>> Switch to Python3.2 ;)
>
> Yes I saw that and it would be great, unfortunately we're stuck with Python
> 2.5 :O
> for some more time.
>
> Anyway now the code that does it is a recursive thing ilke
> def _clean_orphaned_pycs(self, directory, simulate=False):
> ? ?"""Remove all the pyc files without a correspondent module
> ? ?"""
> ? ?files = listdir(directory)
> ? ?# going down the tree recursively (like os.walk)
> ? ?for x in files:
> ? ? ? ?if x.endswith('.pyc'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?py_file = x.split('.pyc')[0] + '.py'
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if (not simulate) and (py_file not in files):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?deletable_pyc = path.join(directory, x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'DELETING pyc %s as it has no py %s' % \
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(deletable_pyc, py_file)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?remove(deletable_pyc)
>
> ? ? ? ?#TODO: move out these special cases
> ? ? ? ?if path.isdir(path.join(directory, x)) \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?and x != '.svn' \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?and not x.endswith('.egg-info'):
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self._clean_orphaned_pycs(path.join(directory, x))
>
>
> Can be done much better probably with os.walk or os.path.walk,
> any suggestions?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 12:43:53 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:43:53 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxsOQkrVm9tteouB_ro2y6Xtyx2mwew+0FuOtHR6KjZoDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxsOQkrVm9tteouB_ro2y6Xtyx2mwew+0FuOtHR6KjZoDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB17349.6030100@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2011 04:06 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> If you can at least upgrade to Python 2.6, another option, if you
> don't mind losing the byte code caching all together (it may worsen
> load times, however probably not significantly), you can set
> PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE to prevent the writing of .pyc files.
> Alternatively, again in 2.6+, you can also specify the -B command-line
> argument. See http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE
> and http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-unittest-discover-B
>
> Chris
>

Unfortunately not possible :(
So well the hand-made removal is also fine, maybe if I'm able to run it
as a service it should not impact on the run-time either, which would be
nice...


From Ric at rdo  Wed Nov  2 14:50:00 2011
From: Ric at rdo (Ric at rdo)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:50:00 -0500
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
	<28740627.642.1320246528964.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
Message-ID: <s143b75qs0nkh8jo4qb1qnkcq3ph9g38r9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT), Miki Tebeka
<miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:

>wx.FileDialog shows files and directories. If you need the user to pick one, this is the standard way. Otherwise, if you need custom view on the file system then probably list control is the right way to go. Again, the demo has a working example with sortable list control.

Thanks,

Do you know if List control has an click event that if you double
click on a directory displayed in the control an action can occur? 
Sorry if its right there but I just did not see.


From vonkes at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 15:21:03 2011
From: vonkes at gmail.com (vonkes)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 12:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a70f8d22-6158-4e57-bfa2-6676ff50931b@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <46219926-741e-407d-8773-8a5efa81dbc3@q13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

Ho trovato questo script in una directory dove sono conservati molti
demo per python non era funzionante,sono riuscito a capirne le
finalit? e cos? l'ho reso funzionante.
Esamina un file di testo e analizza il carattere di fine riga. le
possibilit? dipendono dal sistema operativo usato. Nei file di testo
sotto S.O. Unix il carattere di fine riga in genere ? un CR o carriage
return. Sotto Mac questo carattere in genere ? un LF linee feed
mentre sotto s.o. windows in genere ? CRLF sulla base di ci?
l'applicativo osserva tutti i fine riga e ne fa un confronto.
Osservando il sorgente si dovrebbe comprendere come il controllo viene
fatto.
Nell'ipotesi che ci si voglia divertire e non si dia un nome di file o
si dia un nome inesistente, l'applicativo fa il controllo su se stesso
e poi da le risposte.
Provate:
ecco il sorgente:
__________ inizio applicativo______________
!/usr/bin/python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
"""Controlla file di testo -
    Controlla quale sia  il carattere di fine riga per determinarne lo
stile
    Se la riga termina   con CR   abbiamo lo stile UNIX
    Se  "   "        "          "   LF    abbiamo lo stile MAC
    Se  "   "        "          "   CRLF abbiamo lo stile Win/MS-Dos
    Mettiamo una alternativa all'inserimento del file aggiungiamo
    una parte di codice che nel caso non venga indicato un nome
    di file o ne indicassimo uno mancante o assente, vada a cercare il
file
    dal quale siamo partiti cioe' questo stesso che dovrebbe essere
contenuto
    nella variabile argv che come e' noto e' una lista di parametri
passati dalla
    linea di comando e il primo elemento della lista e' proprio il
nome di questo
    applicativo che seppure non ? il classico file di testo anch'esso
ha i caratteri
    di fine riga esattamente come quelli dei classici file di testo e
quindi possiamo
    esaminarli per decidere quale stile seguono.
  """
#---------- fine commento-------------
import sys,os

import string
def Message(parametro):
	#print "\nquesta e' la funzione che stampera' Il parametro ricevuto"
	print "\n:",parametro

def ChiediFiledaAprire(message):
	print "\n"+message
	nome = raw_input( "\ninserisci il nome di un file di testo completo
di estensione \n: ")
	return nome

#pathname = sys.path
#print "pathname=",pathname
def main():
	#print os.listdir(sys.path[0])
	while True:
		name = ChiediFiledaAprire(message='Per controllo del carattere di
fine linea presente nel file')
		if name == "":
			print "Poiche non hai digitato alcun nome il controllo lo
effettuer??\
			il controllo sul file "+ sys.argv[0]
			name = sys.argv[0];break
		elif not name:
			print "Attenzione !! Il nome file digitato  non esiste, effettuer??
			controllo sul file "+sys.argv[0] +" che ?n esecuzione "
			name = sys.argv[0];break
		else:
			break
	fp = open(name, 'rb')

	try:
		data = fp.read()
		#print "nel file",name," abbiamo trovato",data
	except MemoryError:
		Message("Attenzione, Il file e' troppo grande.")
		sys.exit(0)
	if len(data) == 0:
		Message('Il File e vuoto.')
		sys.exit(0)
	number_cr = string.count(data, '\r')
	number_lf = string.count(data, '\n')
	if number_cr == number_lf == 0:
		Message('Nel File '+name+' manca il carattere di fine riga.')
	if number_cr != 0 and chr(10) not in data:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta lo style unix con fine riga =
CR')
	elif number_lf != 0 and   chr(13) not in data:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta lo style mac con fine riga = LF')
	elif number_cr == number_lf:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta lo style Win/MS-Dos con fine riga
=CRLF')
	else:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta un fine riga non riconosciuto
(binary file?)')
	sys.exit(0)

#----------------fine applicativo----------
Ciao vonkes



From Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Nov  2 15:31:48 2011
From: Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov (Catherine Moroney)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:31:48 -0700
Subject: fast copying of large files in python
Message-ID: <j8s5r5$leq$1@news.jpl.nasa.gov>

Hello,

I'm working on an application that as part of its processing, needs to 
copy 50 Meg binary files from one NFS mounted disk to another.

The simple-minded approach of shutil.copyfile is very slow, and I'm 
guessing that this is due to the default 16K buffer size.  Using
shtil.copyfileobj is faster when I set a larger buffer size, but it's
still slow compared to a "os.system("cp %s %s" % (f1,f2))" call.
Is this because of the overhead entailed in having to open the files
in copyfileobj?

I'm not worried about portability, so should I just do the
os.system call as described above and be done with it?  Is that the
fastest method in this case?  Are there any "pure python" ways of
getting the same speed as os.system?

Thanks,

Catherine


From macmanes at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 17:13:34 2011
From: macmanes at gmail.com (Matt)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
Message-ID: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

Hi All, 

I am trying to do a really simple file operation, yet, it befuddles me...

I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to manipulate the data, then save back to the original file. The code below will open up the files, and do the proper manipulations-- but I can't seem to save the files after the manipulation.. 

How can I save the files-- or do I need to try something else maybe with split, join, etc..
 

import os
import csv
for filename in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/blast"):
	with open(filename, 'rw') as f:
		reader = csv.reader(f)
		for row in reader:
			print ">",row[0],row[4],"\n",row[1], "\n", ">", row[2], "\n", row[3]



Thanks in advance, Matt


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov  2 17:26:16 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:26:16 -0400
Subject: fast copying of large files in python
In-Reply-To: <j8s5r5$leq$1@news.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <j8s5r5$leq$1@news.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <4EB1B578.801@davea.name>

On 11/02/2011 03:31 PM, Catherine Moroney wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm working on an application that as part of its processing, needs to 
> copy 50 Meg binary files from one NFS mounted disk to another.
>
> The simple-minded approach of shutil.copyfile is very slow, and I'm 
> guessing that this is due to the default 16K buffer size.  Using
> shtil.copyfileobj is faster when I set a larger buffer size, but it's
> still slow compared to a "os.system("cp %s %s" % (f1,f2))" call.
> Is this because of the overhead entailed in having to open the files
> in copyfileobj?
>
> I'm not worried about portability, so should I just do the
> os.system call as described above and be done with it?  Is that the
> fastest method in this case?  Are there any "pure python" ways of
> getting the same speed as os.system?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Catherine

I suspect the fastest way would be to use scp, and not try to use your 
local mount for either file.  There are some options on scp that tell it 
to just connect the (up to) two machines to each other and transfer, 
where it won't even come to your local machine.

I do that sort of thing when I'm connecting over slow internet (and vpn) 
to two machines that are on the same local subnet.

-- 

DaveA



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Nov  2 19:06:39 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:06:39 -0500
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
In-Reply-To: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
References: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
Message-ID: <4EB1CCFF.4050208@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/02/11 16:13, Matt wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am trying to do a really simple file operation, yet, it befuddles me...
>
> I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to manipulate the data, then save back to the original file. The code below will open up the files, and do the proper manipulations-- but I can't seem to save the files after the manipulation..
>
> How can I save the files-- or do I need to try something else maybe with split, join, etc..
>
>
> import os
> import csv
> for filename in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/blast"):
> 	with open(filename, 'rw') as f:
> 		reader = csv.reader(f)
> 		for row in reader:
> 			print ">",row[0],row[4],"\n",row[1], "\n",">", row[2], "\n", row[3]

Your last line just prints the data to standard-out.  You can 
either pipe the output to a file:

   python myprog.py > output.txt

or you can write them to a single output file:

   out = file('output.txt', 'w')
   for filename in os.listdir(...):
     with open(filename, 'rw') as f:
       reader = csv.reader(f)
       for row in reader:
         out.write(">%s%s\n%s\n>%s\n>%s\n%s" % (
           row[0], row[4], row[1], row[2], row[3]))

or you can write them to output files on a per-input basis:

   for filename in os.listdir(SOURCE_LOC):
     with open(filename, 'r') as f:
       outname = os.path.join(
         DEST_LOC,
         os.path.basename(filename),
         )
       with file(outname, 'wb') as out:
         for row in reader:
           out.write(">%s%s\n%s\n>%s\n>%s\n%s" % (
             row[0], row[4], row[1], row[2], row[3]))

-tkc







From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  2 19:50:36 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:50:36 -0400
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
In-Reply-To: <j8sie6$69p$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
	<j8sie6$69p$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j8sl0n$mn7$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/2/2011 7:06 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT), Matt<macmanes at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to
>> manipulate the data, then save back to the original file.

That is dangerous. Better to replace the file with a new one of the same 
name.

> Option 1:	Read the file completely into memory (your example is
> reading line by line); close the reader and its file; reopen the
> file for "wb" (delete, create new); open CSV writer on that file;
> write the memory contents.

and lose data if your system crashes or freezes during the write.

> Option 2:	Open a temporary file "wb"; open a CSV writer on the file;
> for each line from the reader, update the data, send to the writer;
> at end of reader, close reader and file; delete original file;
> rename temporary file to the original name.

This works best if new file is given a name related to the original 
name, in case rename fails. Alternative is to rename original x to 
x.bak, write or rename new file, then delete .bak file.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From fzadrozny at appcelerator.com  Wed Nov  2 19:52:44 2011
From: fzadrozny at appcelerator.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:52:44 -0200
Subject: PyDev 2.2.4 Released
Message-ID: <CANXBEFq5DErHrsGELnRFjDbaOyup3JUAgzo3KQ=5ChdKMK=XPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

PyDev 2.2.4 has been released

Details on PyDev: http://pydev.org
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com

Release Highlights:
-------------------------------


**Cython**

    * Cython is now supported in PyDev (.pyx files may be opened with
the PyDev editor).


**Globals Token Browser (Ctrl+Shift+T)**

    * Packages/Modules can now be reached through the globals browser
(so, __init__.py files can now be easily gotten through the package
they represent)


**Handling external files**

    * External libraries configured in a project appearing in the
PyDev Package Explorer
    * Show in > PyDev Package Explorer working for files that are
under the interpreter or external libraries.
    * Show in > PyDev Package Explorer working for files inside .zip archives.
    * External files that were opened when Eclipse is closed are
properly reopened.

**Editor**

    * New option in the code-formatter to only apply code-formatting
on changed lines on save.
    * from __future__ import now properly appears as first even if
grouping is enabled.
    * it's now possible to have a minimap of the code in the overview
ruler (enable in preferences > PyDev > Editor > Overview Ruler
Minimap).

**Unittest runner**

    * exc_clear() no longer called if it's not available.
    * Fixed issue where class tearDown was executed twice.


**Debugger**

    * It's now possible to enable/disable stepping into properties
while in the debugger. Menu: Run > Disable step into properties (patch
by Hussain Bohra)
    * Show in outline view activated in debug perspective  (patch by
Hussain Bohra)
    * Watch expressions can be properly expanded in the watch view
(patch by Hussain Bohra)
    * Breakpoints in external files are properly shown.
    * Remote debugger: starting the remote debugger no longer shows a
launch configuration
    * Remote debugger: when the server is stopped, the server socket
is properly closed


**Minors**

    * Fixed issue in rename (Alt+Shift+R) / find references
(Ctrl+Shift+G) on top level module variables.
    * Fixed issue where create class/method/field action was not ok
because of comment.
    * Fixed issue where doing create class/method/field action on file
with tabs ended up adding spaces.




What is PyDev?
---------------------------

PyDev is a plugin that enables users to use Eclipse for Python, Jython
and IronPython development -- making Eclipse a first class Python IDE
-- It comes with many goodies such as code completion, syntax
highlighting, syntax analysis, refactor, debug and many others.


Cheers,

-- 
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

Appcelerator
http://appcelerator.com/

Aptana
http://aptana.com/

PyDev - Python Development Environment for Eclipse
http://pydev.org
http://pydev.blogspot.com


From radha at leapship.com  Wed Nov  2 20:05:47 2011
From: radha at leapship.com (Radhika Bauerle)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:05:47 -0700
Subject: Full time Job opening -Python lead in washington area.
Message-ID: <CADYi+XsjL5gm=fpTv9fSceRxsYY=PSBLWCUA6qQQz+ZjC8OvLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello eveyone:

we are looking for a Python lead in washington area.

Strong on Python
Strong on OOAD
Worked on high performance web application



Cheers,
Radhika Bauerle.
Leapship, Inc.
radha at leapship.com
408.355.8462


-- 
Radhika Bauerle.
Leapship, Inc.
radha at leapship.com
408.355.8462
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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 20:06:33 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:06:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
In-Reply-To: <s143b75qs0nkh8jo4qb1qnkcq3ph9g38r9@4ax.com>
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
	<28740627.642.1320246528964.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<s143b75qs0nkh8jo4qb1qnkcq3ph9g38r9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15871079.2079.1320278793045.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

You probably want wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, see the ListCtrl demo in the wx demo.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Nov  2 20:47:02 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
References: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
	<j8sie6$69p$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2391.1320277867.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e0fc699-1047-41c6-8387-b9f402e98e2a@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 2, 11:50?pm, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 11/2/2011 7:06 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT), Matt<macma... at gmail.com>
> > declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >> I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to
> >> manipulate the data, then save back to the original file.
>
> That is dangerous. Better to replace the file with a new one of the same
> name.
>
> > Option 1: ?Read the file completely into memory (your example is
> > reading line by line); close the reader and its file; reopen the
> > file for "wb" (delete, create new); open CSV writer on that file;
> > write the memory contents.
>
> and lose data if your system crashes or freezes during the write.
>
> > Option 2: ?Open a temporary file "wb"; open a CSV writer on the file;
> > for each line from the reader, update the data, send to the writer;
> > at end of reader, close reader and file; delete original file;
> > rename temporary file to the original name.
>
> This works best if new file is given a name related to the original
> name, in case rename fails. Alternative is to rename original x to
> x.bak, write or rename new file, then delete .bak file.
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy

To the OP, I agree with Terry, but will add my 2p.

What is this meant to achieve?

>>> row = range(10)
>>>
print ">",row[0],row[4],"\n",row[1], "\n", ">", row[2], "\n", row[3]
> 0 4
1
> 2
3

Is something meant to read this afterwards?

I'd personally create a subdir called db, create a sqlite3 db, then
load all the required fields into it (with a column for filename)...
it will either work or fail, then if it succeeds, start overwriting
the originals - just a "select * from some_table" will do, using
itertools.groupby on the filename column, changing the open() request
etc...

just my 2p mind you,

Jon.








From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Nov  3 02:59:48 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 07:59:48 +0100
Subject: Full time Job opening -Python lead in washington area.
In-Reply-To: <CADYi+XsjL5gm=fpTv9fSceRxsYY=PSBLWCUA6qQQz+ZjC8OvLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYi+XsjL5gm=fpTv9fSceRxsYY=PSBLWCUA6qQQz+ZjC8OvLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8te54$v5s$1@dough.gmane.org>

Radhika Bauerle, 03.11.2011 01:05:
> Hello eveyone:

Well, and here's the problem already: "everyone".

Note that it's commonly considered inappropriate to post job offers on this 
list. Please use the Python job board instead:

http://python.org/community/jobs/

(easy to find by clicking on "python jobs" on the Python.org front page)

Stefan



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:49:35 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

A task like this is more suited to bash than Python:

find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:49:35 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

A task like this is more suited to bash than Python:

find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:50:37 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33506962.66.1320306638033.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15>

This can be added to git as a post-checkout hook:

In your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'




From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:50:37 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33506962.66.1320306638033.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15>

This can be added to git as a post-checkout hook:

In your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'




From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 04:45:53 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 01:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <17659765.658.1320309953278.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnv12>

This can be added to your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 04:45:53 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 01:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <17659765.658.1320309953278.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnv12>

This can be added to your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From jacob.abraham at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 05:22:57 2011
From: jacob.abraham at gmail.com (Jacob Abraham)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:52:57 +0530
Subject: Paramiko Question
Message-ID: <CAC11ra14OvaerSdUo3gh4J7Xw8O6LGK3bchP0TzuHc3CtVB-pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

      I need help with the below mentioned script. The second time I
call a.execute, self.transport.open_session() fails with an EOF error.
Is this a paramiko bug or am I doing something wrong?


import paramiko

class Connection(object):
    def __init__(self, host, username = None, password = None,
private_key = None, \
                 port = 22):
        self.transport = paramiko.Transport((host, port))
        self.live = True
        self.transport.connect(username = username, password = password)

    def execute(self, command):
        channel = self.transport.open_session()
        channel.exec_command(command)
        output = channel.makefile('rb', -1).readlines()
        if output:
            print output
        else:
            print channel.makefile_stderr('rb', -1).readlines()

    def close(self):
        if self.live:
            self.transport.close()
            self.live = False

    def __del__(self):
        self.close()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    a= Connection('ip_or_hostname', 'root', '')
    print a.execute('version')
    print a.execute('version')
    print a.execute('version')
    a.close()


Regards,
Jacob Abraham


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 05:56:40 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:56:40 +0000
Subject: Chaco for real-time plot of PySerial data
In-Reply-To: <CAAdqOWGhLBz=a-69Qae0CauMWR8XuLtpRXofSuf6JG053U18rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAdqOWGhLBz=a-69Qae0CauMWR8XuLtpRXofSuf6JG053U18rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8togo$1vq$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/11 10:27 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I asked this question on the enthought chaco mailing list some time last by have
> yet to receive a reply. Thought I'd ask here to see if anyone could shed some
> light on things for me. I have been considering using chaco / traits for close
> to a year now and am finally biting the bullet so to speak. What I would really
> like to do to begin with is to make a real-time plotting application which gets
> its data from the serial port. Can anyone please point me in the right direction
> for doing this?
>
> Since I didn't get a reply on the chaco list I'm now thinking it might be a
> dangerous route to go down since it will be difficult to get help. Any
> recommendations?

I'm sorry we didn't respond to you. The chaco-users mailing list is not 
well-subscribed or well-trafficked, but the enthought-dev at enthought.com mailing 
list is. We haven't done a good job of letting new people know they should be on 
the chaco-users list to answer questions or updating the documentation to point 
users to enthought-dev instead.

Anyways, to answer your question, we have several examples of how one sets up a 
plot then updates it with new data:

https://github.com/enthought/chaco/tree/master/examples/demo/updating_plot

I can't help much with the PySerial part, I'm afraid. Integrating that with the 
GUI event loop is probably going to be the trickiest bit.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From landa.martin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 06:07:36 2011
From: landa.martin at gmail.com (Martin Landa)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 03:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
Message-ID: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
`ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
error. It causes that the python application crashes even without any
notification. Is it possible to catch library system exit calls from
such python application?

Thanks in advance, Martin


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 06:19:24 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 21:19:24 +1100
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGckV5bhwjw49scf9V_VK41BWMSXMzhv4jTAQ67j9sAgoA@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon,

I'm building a large e-commerce site, and it is very important that
what I write can:
- Handle larger server load
- Deliver pages quickly
- Make transactions quickly

as well as have a small development time (i.e. pre-built modules for
e-commerce are available, and extendible).

Are there recent accessible statistics available, comparing these
metrics across the most popular web-frameworks? (i.e. Symfony, DJango,
Rails, ASP.NET &etc)

Thanks for all suggestions,

Alec Taylor


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov  3 06:51:48 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 11:51:48 +0100
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
Message-ID: <j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jonathan Hartley wrote:

> A task like this is more suited to bash than Python:
> 
> find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'

You forgot to exclude the .svn directory from the search and didn't limit 
the deletion to pyc-files whose corresponding py-file doesn't exist.

How would your line look with these modifications?



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov  3 07:32:35 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Nov 2011 11:32:35 GMT
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9F92741A7F7E1duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Martin Landa <landa.martin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
> error. It causes that the python application crashes even without any
> notification. Is it possible to catch library system exit calls from
> such python application?
> 
> Thanks in advance, Martin

There is no safe way to do this. An unsafe way would be to install an 
atexit() handler and longjmp out of it, but that would mess up any other 
atexit processing and quite likely crash the program. Or you could just 
move the essential cleanup into atexit() but not attempt to stop the 
program termination.

The clean (but not necessarily easy) solution would be to move all of the 
code that uses the library into a separate subprocess and then you can 
catch and handle the subprocess exiting in your main code.


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov  3 08:28:17 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:28:17 +0100
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
In-Reply-To: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <10eao8-84g.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 03.11.2011 11:07, schrieb Martin Landa:
> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
> error.

Just curious, which library is that?

Uli


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov  3 10:16:50 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:16:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<10eao8-84g.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <j8u7oi$pnh$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-03, Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> Am 03.11.2011 11:07, schrieb Martin Landa:
>> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
>> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
>> error.
>
> Just curious, which library is that?

And who should we have thrashed and pilloried for writing it that way?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! BARRY ... That was
                                  at               the most HEART-WARMING
                              gmail.com            rendition of "I DID IT MY
                                                   WAY" I've ever heard!!


From brandon.harris at reelfx.com  Thu Nov  3 10:42:08 2011
From: brandon.harris at reelfx.com (Brandon Harris)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:42:08 -0500
Subject: Python Pickling Issue
Message-ID: <4EB2A840.5060108@reelfx.com>

I have written a fairly large DAG with python and I've run into an issue 
when attempting to pickle the data to disk.
It will pickle fine the first time, but if I call pickle again, it 
throws this error.

/usr/lib64/python2.6/copy_reg.py in _reduce_ex(self, proto)
      68     else:
      69         if base is self.__class__:
---> 70             raise TypeError, "can't pickle %s objects" % 
base.__name__
      71         state = base(self)
      72     args = (self.__class__, base, state)

TypeError: can't pickle function objects

I'm calling
save_file = open('my_file.rsf', 'w')
cPickle.dump(self, save_file)

I have attempted to pickle the object to a different file after the 
first time, but the error is still thrown.

This wouldn't be very hard to track down if the error gave any 
indication as to where or what this function it can't pickle is, so
if there's any possible way to at least get the name of what's failing 
to be pickled, that would be a win.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Brandon L. Harris



From brandon.harris at reelfx.com  Thu Nov  3 10:58:51 2011
From: brandon.harris at reelfx.com (Brandon Harris)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:58:51 -0500
Subject: Python Pickling Issue
In-Reply-To: <4EB2A840.5060108@reelfx.com>
References: <4EB2A840.5060108@reelfx.com>
Message-ID: <4EB2AC2B.3050301@reelfx.com>

After digging around a while I discovered I was attempting to pickle a 
third party class that can't be pickled. Initially I was removing it 
before pickling and everything was kosher, but at some point it got back 
onto the class. Apologies.

Brandon L. Harris


On 11/03/2011 09:42 AM, Brandon Harris wrote:
> I have written a fairly large DAG with python and I've run into an 
> issue when attempting to pickle the data to disk.
> It will pickle fine the first time, but if I call pickle again, it 
> throws this error.
>
> /usr/lib64/python2.6/copy_reg.py in _reduce_ex(self, proto)
>      68     else:
>      69         if base is self.__class__:
> ---> 70             raise TypeError, "can't pickle %s objects" % 
> base.__name__
>      71         state = base(self)
>      72     args = (self.__class__, base, state)
>
> TypeError: can't pickle function objects
>
> I'm calling
> save_file = open('my_file.rsf', 'w')
> cPickle.dump(self, save_file)
>
> I have attempted to pickle the object to a different file after the 
> first time, but the error is still thrown.
>
> This wouldn't be very hard to track down if the error gave any 
> indication as to where or what this function it can't pickle is, so
> if there's any possible way to at least get the name of what's failing 
> to be pickled, that would be a win.
>
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
> Brandon L. Harris
>



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Nov  3 11:38:33 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 15:38:33 +0000
Subject: Paramiko Question
In-Reply-To: <CAC11ra14OvaerSdUo3gh4J7Xw8O6LGK3bchP0TzuHc3CtVB-pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC11ra14OvaerSdUo3gh4J7Xw8O6LGK3bchP0TzuHc3CtVB-pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB2B579.5060901@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 03/11/2011 09:22, Jacob Abraham wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>        I need help with the below mentioned script. The second time I
> call a.execute, self.transport.open_session() fails with an EOF error.
> Is this a paramiko bug or am I doing something wrong?
>
>
> import paramiko
>
> class Connection(object):
>      def __init__(self, host, username = None, password = None,
> private_key = None, \
>                   port = 22):
>          self.transport = paramiko.Transport((host, port))
>          self.live = True
>          self.transport.connect(username = username, password = password)
>
>      def execute(self, command):
>          channel = self.transport.open_session()
>          channel.exec_command(command)
>          output = channel.makefile('rb', -1).readlines()
>          if output:
>              print output
>          else:
>              print channel.makefile_stderr('rb', -1).readlines()
>
>      def close(self):
>          if self.live:
>              self.transport.close()
>              self.live = False
>
>      def __del__(self):
>          self.close()
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      a= Connection('ip_or_hostname', 'root', '')
>      print a.execute('version')
>      print a.execute('version')
>      print a.execute('version')
>      a.close()
>
I notice that in the 'execute' method you're opening the session, but 
not closing it.
Could that be the cause of the problem?

I also notice that in that method you're printing the output, not 
returning it, but when you call the execute method you're trying to
print the result, which will be None.


From davidj411 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 12:48:58 2011
From: davidj411 at gmail.com (davidj411)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AIX installation can't find zlib
In-Reply-To: <20000728185514.E266@xs4all.nl>
References: <8ls045$1522$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>
	<20000728185514.E266@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5936806.117.1320338938935.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

we using RPM to install python 2.7.x and same issue there, can't import gzip b/c zlib is missing. we used RPM to install zlib, but did not effect python.
you mentioned modules and uncommenting something. could you be more specific? 
also , we are not compiling. would that be required for python after uncommenting zlib?


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 13:54:52 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:54:52 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>

All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately
- it's svn not git
- it's windows not *nix
- we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...


From bkamrani at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:13:43 2011
From: bkamrani at gmail.com (Behnam)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
Message-ID: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
america?

I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
python. Any idea?

BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.

Thanks in advance!


From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:29:14 2011
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:29:14 -0600
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7DDJPYNpM5WAM07CEibSppcn7yWc=0R2VOH3rHq=dvm0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamrani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
> america?
>
> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
> python. Any idea?

While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
the Python site):

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining

I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
outstanding courses.  Only David is listed on that page to which I
linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
 I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
fantastic.

-eric


>
> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From scottdware at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:46:54 2011
From: scottdware at gmail.com (Scott Ware)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:46:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
Message-ID: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

Python newbie here. So, when creating dictionaries, I am noticing that each time I print it out, that its not in the same order as when I typed it in. They seem to be getting sorted somehow. Is there a way to not sort them and leave the order as is?

Thanks!


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov  3 14:57:27 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 18:57:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at yqhd1> Scott Ware <scottdware at gmail.com> writes:

> Python newbie here. So, when creating dictionaries, I am noticing that
> each time I print it out, that its not in the same order as when I typed
> it in. They seem to be getting sorted somehow. Is there a way to not sort
> them and leave the order as is?

Dictionaries don't maintain the order of the items.

If you want to keep track of the order in which the items were inserted,
you'll need to do that yourself using a separate mechanism (a list, for
example.)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From scottdware at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 15:00:27 2011
From: scottdware at gmail.com (Scott Ware)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9836933.743.1320346827670.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>

Great! Thanks, John for the quick response!


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Thu Nov  3 15:13:46 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:13:46 -0700
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <9836933.743.1320346827670.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<9836933.743.1320346827670.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsUnJD5WY+SJMUBuwn60njRtAi5EvWW0bD_xzzVSsCMHg@mail.gmail.com>

Note that there are a number of recipes available for free online, and
if you are using a newer version of Python (2.7 or higher), the
collections module includes an OrderedDict class
(http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.OrderedDict
- this also include a library for Python 2.4 and higher as well). Note
that there are a lot of different possible behaviors, so any
particular recipe may or may not behave exactly as you desire.

Chris



On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Scott Ware <scottdware at gmail.com> wrote:
> Great! Thanks, John for the quick response!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From insomnia at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 16:01:36 2011
From: insomnia at gmail.com (insomnia at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 13:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <19322439.785.1320350496479.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>

Moreover, for on-the-fly ordering you can consider to use sorted() on yourdict.keys(), like:

for k in sorted(yourdict.keys()):
    print k, yourdict[k]

I think it has no side effects, except that the orderering can be slow on huge data sets, and that you need to call it every time after updating the dict keys.

Regards,
insomniac


From Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Nov  3 17:15:19 2011
From: Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov (Catherine Moroney)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:15:19 -0700
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB30467.5050905@jpl.nasa.gov>

I've taken two Python classes from David Beazley and can second
Eric's recommendation.  The "advanced" class is really advanced
and goes into some pretty mind-blowing stuff.  The class comes with
lots of problems and solutions, and a book of all the slides which are
a great reference.  Well worth the time and money!

Catherine

Eric Snow wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamrani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
>> america?
>>
>> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
>> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
>> python. Any idea?
> 
> While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
> the Python site):
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining
> 
> I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
> David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
> outstanding courses.  Only David is listed on that page to which I
> linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
>  I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
> fantastic.
> 
> -eric
> 
> 
>> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>


From Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Nov  3 17:18:20 2011
From: Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov (Catherine Moroney)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:18:20 -0700
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB3051C.2010202@jpl.nasa.gov>

I've taken two Python classes from David Beazley and can second
Eric's recommendation.  The "advanced" class is really advanced
and goes into some pretty mind-blowing stuff.  The class comes with
lots of problems and solutions, and a book of all the slides which are
a great reference.  Well worth the time and money!

Catherine

Eric Snow wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamrani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
>> america?
>>
>> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
>> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
>> python. Any idea?
> 
> While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
> the Python site):
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining
> 
> I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
> David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
> outstanding courses.  Only David is listed on that page to which I
> linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
>  I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
> fantastic.
> 
> -eric
> 
> 
>> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Nov  3 17:25:03 2011
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:25:03 -0700
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j8v0ng$uon$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/3/2011 11:13 AM Behnam said...
> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
> america?
>
> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
> python. Any idea?

This list works well for that.  Try answering all OOP related questions 
as completely as possible and provide example code.  Those that know the 
difference will promptly point out the improved and generally preferred 
approaches.  When no one corrects you, you're done.

Only-slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly y'rs,

Emile



From lconrad at Go2France.com  Thu Nov  3 17:28:34 2011
From: lconrad at Go2France.com (Len Conrad)
Date: Thu,  3 Nov 2011 22:28:34 +0100
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
Message-ID: <201111032228.AA278266012@mail.Go2France.com>


http://www.dabeaz.com/pythonmaster.html


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com>
Date:  Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:25:03 -0700

>On 11/3/2011 11:13 AM Behnam said...
>> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
>> america?
>>
>> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
>> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
>> python. Any idea?
>
>This list works well for that.  Try answering all OOP related questions 
>as completely as possible and provide example code.  Those that know the 
>difference will promptly point out the improved and generally preferred 
>approaches.  When no one corrects you, you're done.
>
>Only-slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly y'rs,
>
>Emile
>
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 17:36:15 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:36:15 +1100
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org> <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp4ouW5_YZF7TGrYUbSVffmoW6mNGXGdqOt_HjM-w8sHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately
> - it's svn not git
> - it's windows not *nix
> - we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...

Windows? Well, Windows shell scripting isn't quite as rich as
bash/csh/etc, but it's possible. I'll leave recursion as an exercise
for the reader, but this (untested) should do it for one directory:

for %d in (*.pyc) do (
set fn=%d
if not exist !fn:~0,-1! del %d
)

This needs to be run with 'cmd /v' to enable delayed variable
evaluation. Of course, it'd be really easy to do if Windows Batch had
anything like decent string manipulation.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov  3 17:36:25 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:36:25 -0400
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/3/2011 2:46 PM, Scott Ware wrote:
> Python newbie here. So, when creating dictionaries, I am noticing
> that each time I print it out, that its not in the same order as when
> I typed it in. They seem to be getting sorted somehow.

No, the entries are not being sorted at all.

 > Is there a way to not sort them and leave the order as is?

CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal 
hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the 
items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.

If you want to keep the dict sorted by entry order (as far as the user 
view goes), use collections.OrderedDict.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 18:24:09 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 22:24:09 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>

Try this out (Python 3.2.2 (default, Sep  5 2011, 04:52:19)):

global_variable = None
> (lambda *, keyword_only=global_variable: None)             # Works, as
> expected
> (lambda: (lambda argument=global_variable: None))()        # Works, as
> expected
> (lambda: (lambda *, keyword_only=global_variable: None))() # Fails???
> (lambda: (lambda argument=fake_variable: None))()          # Fails, as
> expected
> (lambda: (lambda *, keyword_only=fake_variable: None))()   # Fails???


Non-lambdas work as expected, but a lambda inside a non-lambda still
exhibits this behaviour.

Conclusion:
When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are inside
non-global scopes, cPython is unable to access the global scope and raises
SystemError.
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Nov  3 19:01:38 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 18:01:38 -0500
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EB31D52.3080707@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/03/11 16:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
>   >  Is there a way to not sort them and leave the order as is?
>
> CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal
> hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the
> items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.

Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive 
iterations over an unchanged dict?  I didn't see anything in the 
docs[1] to make such a claim, but at least from my experience, 
one can reliably assert

   d = {}
   randomly_populate(d)
   list1 = list(d.iterkeys())
   list2 = list(d.iterkeys())
   assert list1 == list2

I understand all bets are off if one adds/removes (or maybe 
changes the values) of the dict between iterations, but I didn't 
know if what I saw was merely an implementation detail that 
shouldn't be counted on.

-tkc

[1]
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict





From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 19:51:46 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:51:46 +1100
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> Non-lambdas work as expected, but a lambda inside a non-lambda still
> exhibits this behaviour.
> Conclusion:
> When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are inside
> non-global scopes, cPython is unable to access the global scope and raises
> SystemError.

Fascinating! I did some introspection with this:

>>> def foo():
	a=1 # to make sure local variables do exist
	return (lambda *,keyword_only=global_variable: None)()

>>> dis.dis(foo)
  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              3 STORE_FAST               0 (a)

  3           6 LOAD_CONST               2 ('keyword_only')
              9 LOAD_NAME                0 (global_variable)
             12 LOAD_CONST               3 (<code object <lambda> at
0x00FC7340, file "<pyshell#18>", line 3>)
             15 MAKE_FUNCTION          256
             18 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             21 RETURN_VALUE


>>> def foo():
	a=1
	return (lambda argument=global_variable: None)()

>>> dis.dis(foo)
  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              3 STORE_FAST               0 (a)

  3           6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (global_variable)
              9 LOAD_CONST               2 (<code object <lambda> at
0x00F95E30, file "<pyshell#23>", line 3>)
             12 MAKE_FUNCTION            1
             15 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             18 RETURN_VALUE

Variations on the theme show that during compilation of foo, the name
is normally cemented as either a global or a local - but if it's
keyword-only, then a LOAD_NAME opcode is emitted. It's the code for
LOAD_NAME that looks for locals, which presumably a lambda doesn't
have.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 19:59:43 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:59:43 +1100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <4EB31D52.3080707@tim.thechases.com>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org> <4EB31D52.3080707@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmorWZbmTAx0-kXVt1XfF6uMv0cR5=ih9pSAn09fEDDpUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>  list1 = list(d.iterkeys())
> ?list2 = list(d.iterkeys())
> ?assert list1 == list2
>

There is such a guarantee in Python 2. From
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html:
"If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and
itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the
dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the
creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(),
d.keys()). The same relationship holds for the iterkeys() and
itervalues() methods: pairs = zip(d.itervalues(), d.iterkeys())
provides the same value for pairs. Another way to create the same list
is pairs = [(v, k) for (k, v) in d.iteritems()]."

Python 3 does things quite differently (with views), and I can't find
a corresponding promise, but I expect that this would still be the
case.

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Nov  3 20:06:20 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:06:20 +1100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2418.1320361310.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8739e4n43n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:

> On 11/03/11 16:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal
> > hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the
> > items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.
>
> Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive iterations
> over an unchanged dict? I didn't see anything in the docs[1] to make
> such a claim,

Exactly. The order of retrieval is entirely up to the implementation.
There is no guarantee that the order will be the same the next time you
iterate over the same dict. It is a bug to depend on a reliable order of
retrieving the items.

> I didn't know if what I saw was merely an implementation detail that
> shouldn't be counted on.

If the docs don't specify some particular observed behaviour in Python,
you should consider it an implementation detail.

-- 
 \       ?Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in |
  `\     behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.? ?Ambrose |
_o__)                           Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney


From drobinow at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 20:14:31 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 20:14:31 -0400
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org> <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbxLoRpsbLAAwz+dQeHyjthsQmR3xR6GzqyO0fNCZjBaDA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately
> - it's svn not git
> - it's windows not *nix
> - we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Barely tested. Change the print functions to removes. Pass the top
directory as the argument.

import os, sys
for dirpath, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(sys.argv[1]):
    if dirpath.endswith("__pycache__"):
        thispath = dirpath[:-11]
        for f in filenames:
            if f.endswith(".pyc"):
                if not os.path.exists(os.path.join(thispath,f[:-1])):
                    print("delete " + os.path.join(thispath,f))

    else:
        for f in filenames:
            if f.endswith(".pyc"):
                if not os.path.exists(os.path.join(dirpath,f[:-1])):
                    print("delete " + os.path.join(dirpath,f))
                    #os.remove(os.path.join(dirpath,f))


From anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 20:33:04 2011
From: anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com (Anthony Kong)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 17:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
Message-ID: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.

I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python? 

I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.

I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy





From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov  3 21:46:53 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 21:46:53 -0400
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <roy-8C6241.21465203112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at prap37>,
 Anthony Kong <anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 
> 2003.

What?  We're bring it up again, SO SOON!?


> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if 
> any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?
> [...]
> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language 
> actually do away much of the need of the use of DP

To a certain extent, I agree.  I don't have a huge amount of experience 
in Design Patterns, but have read (years ago) the obligatory Gang Of 
Four book.  My impression was that much of that book was about how to 
build sane data structures to do useful things given the uber-bondage 
constraints of the C++ and Java typing systems.

For example, let's look at Singleton.  It's a useful pattern.  Here's 
how I would implement Singleton in Python (hand-waving a bit about the 
syntax details):

class Printer:
   thePrinter = None

   @staticmethod
   def get():
      if Printer.thePrinter is None:
         Printer.thePrinter = Printer()
      return thePrinter

   def print(self):
      "print some stuff"
      whatever


That seems to cover everything Singleton needs to do.  In your 
application code, you do:

myPrinter = Printer.get()
myPrinter.print(....)

and you can sleep easy knowing you've got the same Printer instance 
every time.  The GoF version for C++ is filled with minutia about 
private constructors and assignment operators.  All that stuff is 
important to get right in C++, but it has nothing to do with Singleton, 
per se.  It's just all the gunk you have to worry about to correctly 
implement Singleton in C++.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Nov  3 22:15:02 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 19:15:02 -0700
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQZjd7sxb_aW0E_SPyLJyLk9OTeZdJ9ibWAzJi0dJ3Hhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Anthony Kong <anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.
>
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?

I can only speak for myself, but the whole idea of design patterns is
broken. The existence of nontrivial design patterns indicates language
deficiencies. For more extensive corroborating discussions, see:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/06/are-design-patterns-how-languages-evolve.html
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AreDesignPatternsMissingLanguageFeatures

Python thankfully has relatively few/minor deficiencies (so long as
one judges it within its dynamic language niche), so design patterns
per se aren't too relevant to it.

The canonical Python-specific design pattern is Borg
(http://code.activestate.com/recipes/66531-singleton-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-singleton-the-bo/
) [a variation on Singleton], and nowadays it (like its parent,
Singleton) is considered to be of dubious utility/advisability.

> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.

The closest alternative would be some publication that gave examples
of using some of Python's fancier, higher-level features, such as
metaclasses and context managers. I haven't been in the market for
such a book, so I have no good recommendations to give. Closest I
could suggest would be the Language Reference
(http://docs.python.org/reference/ ) and relevant PEPs
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ ; they tend to include examples by
way of motivating use-cases).

> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy

I am glad you agree.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com


From macmanes at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 22:55:29 2011
From: macmanes at gmail.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 19:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: match, concatenate based on filename
Message-ID: <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

Hi All, 

I am trying to concatenate several hundred files based on their filename..  Filenames are like this:

Q1.HOMOblast.fasta  
Q1.mus.blast.fasta  
Q1.query.fasta  
Q2.HOMOblast.fasta  
Q2.mus.blast.fasta  
Q2.query.fasta
...
Q1223.HOMOblast.fasta  
Q1223.mus.blast.fasta  
Q1223.query.fasta

All the Q1's should be concatenated together in a single file = Q1.concat.fasta.. Q2's go together, Q3's and so on...

I envision something like

for file in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/fasta/final/"):
	if file.startswith("Q%i"):
           concatenate...

But I can't figure out how to iterate this process over Q-numbers 1-1223

Any help appreciate.






From pmaupin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 23:08:42 2011
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 20:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: match, concatenate based on filename
References: <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
Message-ID: <483db563-19e7-4219-8854-9a65a8c4a88d@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 3, 9:55?pm, Matt <macma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am trying to concatenate several hundred files based on their filename.. ?Filenames are like this:
>
> Q1.HOMOblast.fasta
> Q1.mus.blast.fasta
> Q1.query.fasta
> Q2.HOMOblast.fasta
> Q2.mus.blast.fasta
> Q2.query.fasta
> ...
> Q1223.HOMOblast.fasta
> Q1223.mus.blast.fasta
> Q1223.query.fasta
>
> All the Q1's should be concatenated together in a single file = Q1.concat.fasta.. Q2's go together, Q3's and so on...
>
> I envision something like
>
> for file in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/fasta/final/"):
> ? ? ? ? if file.startswith("Q%i"):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?concatenate...
>
> But I can't figure out how to iterate this process over Q-numbers 1-1223
>
> Any help appreciate.

I haven't tested this, so may have a typo or something, but it's often
much cleaner to gather your information, massage it, and then use,
than it is to gather it and use it in one go.


from collections import defaultdict

filedict = defaultdict(list)

for fname in sorted(os.listdir(mydir)):
    if fname.startswith('Q') and '.' in fname:
        filedict[fname[:fname.find('.')]].append(fname)

for prefix, fnames in filedict.iteritems():
    #print prefix, fnames
    concatenate...

HTH,
Pat


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov  3 23:17:34 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 03:17:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: match, concatenate based on filename
References: <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
Message-ID: <j8vlge$gff$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at prgt40> Matt <macmanes at gmail.com> writes:

> But I can't figure out how to iterate this process over Q-numbers 1-1223

for i in xrange(1, 1224):
  Q = "Q%d" % i
  file1 = "%s.HOMOblast.fasta" % Q
  file2 = "%s.mus.blast.fasta" % Q
  file3 = "%s.query.fasta" % Q
  target = "%s.concat.fasta" % Q
  concatenate(file1, file2, file3, target)

Assuming that there are exactly three files to be concatenated for each
value of i.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 02:24:03 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <292753.379.1320387843748.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prev11>

I suggest that the use of dynamical page forwarding to different severs which run the same software package. This can be done in python!   


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 02:24:03 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <292753.379.1320387843748.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prev11>

I suggest that the use of dynamical page forwarding to different severs which run the same software package. This can be done in python!   


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov  4 02:48:35 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 06:48:35 GMT
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb38ac2$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:54:52 +0000, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately - it's
> svn not git
> - it's windows not *nix
> - we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...

Does it matter? The other .pyc files will be recreated when they are next 
needed. Just nuke all the .pyc files and be done with it. Or if you can't 
bear having to wait for Python to compile them as needed, you can force 
compilation by running your test suite (you do have a test suite, don't 
you?) or by using the compileall.py script.

python -m compileall some_directory 

should do the trick.


-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Nov  4 04:26:25 2011
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:26:25 +0000
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<10eao8-84g.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<j8u7oi$pnh$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.11.04.08.26.25.35000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:16:50 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

>>> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
>>> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
>>> error.
>> Just curious, which library is that?

I'm reasonably sure that he's talking about the GRASS libraries.

In which, the standard error-handling mechanism is to call
G_fatal_error(), which ultimately calls exit(). AKA the "samurai
principle": return victorious, or don't return at all.

[FWIW, re-writing everying in C++ and using exceptions is not a
realistic option].

> And who should we have thrashed and pilloried for writing it that way?

No-one. It's a perfectly rational design given the context.

GRASS consists of ~350 command-line programs ("modules") in the
traditional Unix style (read command-line arguments, do processing,
terminate). The libraries exist to support the creation of such modules,
and are fit for that particular purpose.

Handling errors by having status codes which propagate up the call chain
would add a significant amount of code. More importantly, it would push
the burden of handling errors onto the authors of the various modules (and
historical evidence suggests that checking for (let alone handling) errors
is unlikely to occur).

The mechanism works fine, so long as you don't try to use the libraries
for purposes for which they weren't designed (e.g. long-running programs
such as interactive applications or servers).

As the story goes ...

	Patient: "Doctor, when I do this ... it hurts"
	Doctor: "Well don't do it then!"



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Nov  4 04:34:33 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:34:33 +0100
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGckV5bhwjw49scf9V_VK41BWMSXMzhv4jTAQ67j9sAgoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGckV5bhwjw49scf9V_VK41BWMSXMzhv4jTAQ67j9sAgoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9082s$4cd$1@dough.gmane.org>

Alec Taylor, 03.11.2011 11:19:
> I'm building a large e-commerce site, and it is very important that
> what I write can:
> - Handle larger server load
> - Deliver pages quickly
> - Make transactions quickly

Those are pretty broad requirements. If a framework can satisfy them or not 
depends more on how you set it up and deploy it (e.g. how many servers you 
run, what kind of load balancing you use, how you serve your static 
content, etc.) than the actual framework you choose, I'd say.


> as well as have a small development time (i.e. pre-built modules for
> e-commerce are available, and extendible).

"e-commerce" is also a very broad term. But I'd expect that any of the 
recent web frameworks (certainly including Django) will satisfy your needs 
in some way.


> Are there recent accessible statistics available, comparing these
> metrics across the most popular web-frameworks? (i.e. Symfony, DJango,
> Rails, ASP.NET&etc)

Not that I know of.

Stefan



From tartley at tartley.com  Fri Nov  4 05:27:58 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

I like to install a Bash shell of some kind on windows boxes I work on, specifically so I can use shell commands like this, just like on any other operating system. Cywin works just fine for this.

svn also has hooks, but sadly not a checkout hook:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html
I guess you could write your own two-line wrapper script which does the checkout and then deletes the pyc files.

I don't understand why deleting only some pyc files is important. Can't you just delete them all and let Python re generate the ones you need? I once saw someone create the longest python file they could to see how long generating pyc files takes, and it is very very quick indeed. A human could not notice the delay even for the largest of projects.

Finally, someone asked about skipping .svn dirs: find has a '-prune' option, you can read about it on the manpage.


From tartley at tartley.com  Fri Nov  4 05:27:58 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

I like to install a Bash shell of some kind on windows boxes I work on, specifically so I can use shell commands like this, just like on any other operating system. Cywin works just fine for this.

svn also has hooks, but sadly not a checkout hook:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html
I guess you could write your own two-line wrapper script which does the checkout and then deletes the pyc files.

I don't understand why deleting only some pyc files is important. Can't you just delete them all and let Python re generate the ones you need? I once saw someone create the longest python file they could to see how long generating pyc files takes, and it is very very quick indeed. A human could not notice the delay even for the largest of projects.

Finally, someone asked about skipping .svn dirs: find has a '-prune' option, you can read about it on the manpage.


From tartley at tartley.com  Fri Nov  4 05:29:49 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2425.1320398887.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2425.1320398887.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8460773.112.1320398989273.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15>

Apologies for all my messasges appearing twice. I'm using google groups web ui and have no idea why it's doing that. I'll stop using it.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov  4 05:49:07 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:49:07 +0100
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <j1pco8-5cn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 04.11.2011 01:33, schrieb Anthony Kong:
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or
> consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?

My consensus with myself is that design patterns are language-agnostic. 
If I write "class Foo serves as view and controller for class Bar in a 
model-view-controller (MVC) design", everybody that knows MVC has 
immediately a very high-level understanding of how those two classes 
interact.


> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my
> colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject
> area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation
> and insight in this topic.

The Gang of Four book on design patterns is one you will probably come 
across, and there are many that refer to it.


> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python
> language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it
> is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating
> from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to
> cherrypy

"webframework based on J2EE/servlet" - apart from J2EE being a specific 
implementation, this also describes a design pattern, i.e. one where 
(forgive me if I'm slightly off, this is not actually my field of 
programming) the UI is browser-based and the program logic runs on a server.

Instead of explaining it in many words, you reused the known design 
pattern to describe it, and that is also IMHO what design patterns are 
about. They serve as a tool to make software that follows known 
patterns, so that people that know the pattern will recognize them and 
then get easier understanding. It also serves as tool when talking about 
things, you don't have to explain the design when you can refer to a 
pattern.

In that sense, I fully disagree that design patterns are obsolete in 
Python. However, there are other patterns that are more 
language-specific, like e.g. RAII in C++, so if you rather meant those, 
I would agree with you.

Cheers!

Uli



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Fri Nov  4 06:20:06 2011
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:20:06 +0100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2418.1320361310.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8739e4n43n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <87d3d8mbop.fsf@xemacs.org>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:
>
>> On 11/03/11 16:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> > CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal
>> > hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the
>> > items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.
>>
>> Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive iterations
>> over an unchanged dict? I didn't see anything in the docs[1] to make
>> such a claim,
>
> Exactly.

This is false.  The docs say:

    If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and
    itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the
    dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the
    creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(),
    d.keys()).

(http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict)

> The order of retrieval is entirely up to the implementation.

This part is still true, but the order won't change behind your back if
you're not touching the dict.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 06:34:11 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:34:11 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
Message-ID: <4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>

On 11/04/2011 09:27 AM, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> I like to install a Bash shell of some kind on windows boxes I work on, specifically so I can use shell commands like this, just like on any other operating system. Cywin works just fine for this.
>
> svn also has hooks, but sadly not a checkout hook:
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html
> I guess you could write your own two-line wrapper script which does the checkout and then deletes the pyc files.
>
> I don't understand why deleting only some pyc files is important. Can't you just delete them all and let Python re generate the ones you need? I once saw someone create the longest python file they could to see how long generating pyc files takes, and it is very very quick indeed. A human could not notice the delay even for the largest of projects.
>
> Finally, someone asked about skipping .svn dirs: find has a '-prune' option, you can read about it on the manpa

Uhm yes it makes sense also to just remove all of them, I don't know why 
it was done like this but
probably for "performance" reasons.

I will try both ways, but I would definitively avoid the shell 
scripting, because it's mainly windows
but it has to be multi-platform..


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 06:39:14 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:39:14 +1100
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Uhm yes it makes sense also to just remove all of them, I don't know why it
> was done like this but
> probably for "performance" reasons.
>
> I will try both ways, but I would definitively avoid the shell scripting,
> because it's mainly windows
> but it has to be multi-platform..

If you're removing them all, you don't need to use a powerful shell.
Much much easier! Just recursively del *.pyc and you're done.

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 06:49:39 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:39 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/3/11, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Fascinating!
Awesome to know!

> I did some introspection with this:
>
*snip*
>
> Variations on the theme show that during compilation of foo, the name
> is normally cemented as either a global or a local - but if it's
> keyword-only, then a LOAD_NAME opcode is emitted. It's the code for
> LOAD_NAME that looks for locals, which presumably a lambda doesn't
> have.

What is the LOAD_NAME for? The non-keyword default doesn't seem to need it.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 07:00:50 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:00:50 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>

On 11/04/2011 10:39 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> If you're removing them all, you don't need to use a powerful shell. 
> Much much easier! Just recursively del *.pyc and you're done. ChrisA 

Discussing with the guy that did it I think it's actually a good idea 
instead, because removing them *all* means.
- remove a few thousand files every time where maybe 0 would be removed 
otherwise
- recompile the same thousand of files

It might not be so relevant but for 10 lines of code more I guess it's 
fine..


From lbrt  Fri Nov  4 07:48:02 2011
From: lbrt (lbrt)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 11:48:02 GMT
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
Message-ID: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>

 python-based youtube-dl
~ 
 http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
~ 
 is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it is considered a "feature").
~ 
 I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
~ 
...
 data = urllib2.urlopen(basic_request)
 content_length = data.info()['Content-Length']
...
~ 
 you will see they get the content length of the actual data feed and they also print the progress status based on the content length
~ 
 Implementing an if statement a la:
~ 
 max_indicated_content_length = self.params.get('max_content_length', None);
~ 
 if( content_length > max_indicated_content_length ){ [do not download, just report "data feed too large"] }
 else{ [do] }
~ 
 shouldn't be hard at all
~ 
 youtube-dl is under the Creative Commons License copyrighted by 2006-2011 Ricardo Garcia Gonzalez and maintained by him and a group of python developers
~ 
 They are the ones keeping a mental map of that project. It would be a plus if they implement this feature, but anyother python developer can implemented (please, let me know if/when you do)
~ 
 lbrtchx


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Nov  4 08:19:25 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:19:25 +1100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2418.1320361310.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8739e4n43n.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <87d3d8mbop.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <87y5vwkrle.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at xemacs.org> writes:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
>
> > Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:
> >> Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive iterations
> >> over an unchanged dict? I didn't see anything in the docs[1] to make
> >> such a claim,
> >
> > Exactly.
>
> This is false.  The docs say:
>
>     If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and
>     itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the
>     dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the
>     creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(),
>     d.keys()).
>
> (http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict)

Thank you for this correction.

-- 
 \       ?Firmness in decision is often merely a form of stupidity. It |
  `\        indicates an inability to think the same thing out twice.? |
_o__)                                                ?Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney


From johnroth1 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 08:28:23 2011
From: johnroth1 at gmail.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 05:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <0531d3c1-61c6-41f6-a74a-fe3d24a731fb@x2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 3, 6:33?pm, Anthony Kong <anthony.hw.k... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.
>
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?
>
> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.
>
> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy

I don't know of a book on design patterns in Python. I've got a couple
of observations.

The first is that if you use TDD (Test Driven Development) and
refactor relentlessly to remove duplication, most of the basic design
patterns will emerge naturally from the code as you work.

The second is that, as far as I'm concerned, the utility of a design
patterns book is in the discussion of what the pattern is good for,
and what it isn't good for. That is, as another poster says, language
agnostic.

John Roth


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov  4 08:32:08 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 12:32:08 GMT
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:48:02 +0000, lbrt chx _ gemale wrote:

> python-based youtube-dl
> ~
>  http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
> ~
>  is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length
>  of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it
>  is considered a "feature").

If you are making a feature request, you should make it directly to the 
project developer, and not here.

Since you consider that feature "shouldn't be hard at all" (your words), 
perhaps you should consider providing a patch? Don't forget the 
documentation and tests for it.

Or did you mean "it shouldn't be hard for me, if somebody else does the 
work"?


> ~
>  I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this
>  nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
[...]

Lbrtchx, it's possible that English is not your natural language. Please 
be aware that, in English, "what they were thinking..." is often used 
sarcastically, as in "they weren't actually thinking". Particularly 
following your use of scare quotes around "feature".

(Even more so for the similar form, "what were they thinking?".)

It's probably not going to help you get a feature added to the project if 
you imply (even by accident) that lack of that feature is an indication 
that the developer wasn't thinking.


-- 
Steven


From goon12 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 08:41:00 2011
From: goon12 at gmail.com (Joe Riopel)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:41:00 -0400
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <0531d3c1-61c6-41f6-a74a-fe3d24a731fb@x2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<0531d3c1-61c6-41f6-a74a-fe3d24a731fb@x2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHMX9+6Q-mCg8G6TgmGZmLocpU+=505jDo9y9dCW6ttbF1qWcA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:28 AM, John Roth <johnroth1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The first is that if you use TDD (Test Driven Development) and
> refactor relentlessly to remove duplication, most of the basic design
> patterns will emerge naturally from the code as you work.

I agree, and there is a pretty good series of articles on
developerWorks that covers this:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-eaed2/index.html

The author used Java in this series, but as Ulrich mentioned, I feel
that design patterns (and emergent design) are "language-agnostic.".


From phihag at phihag.de  Fri Nov  4 08:45:23 2011
From: phihag at phihag.de (Philipp Hagemeister)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:45:23 +0100
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
In-Reply-To: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4EB3DE63.4050900@phihag.de>

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Hash: SHA512

As already said, you should file your request at
https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issue , not here.

A few things to note:

* Not all sites necessarily send the Content-Length header.
* RTMP URLs would have to be treated differently
* Sending a Range header might allow for a better implementation.

Why do you want to restrict the filesize of the download in the first
place? I can't see a use case, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Due to me not having lots of time at the moment, your best chance to get
any youtube-dl feature implemented is providing a patch (in form of a
github pull-request, if possible).

- -- Philipp (youtube-dl developer)

lbrt at mail.python.org wrote:
>  python-based youtube-dl
> ~ 
>  http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
> ~ 
>  is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it is considered a "feature").
> ~ 
>  I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
> ~ 
> ...
>  data = urllib2.urlopen(basic_request)
>  content_length = data.info()['Content-Length']
> ...
> ~ 
>  you will see they get the content length of the actual data feed and they also print the progress status based on the content length
> ~ 
>  Implementing an if statement a la:
> ~ 
>  max_indicated_content_length = self.params.get('max_content_length', None);
> ~ 
>  if( content_length > max_indicated_content_length ){ [do not download, just report "data feed too large"] }
>  else{ [do] }
> ~ 
>  shouldn't be hard at all
> ~ 
>  youtube-dl is under the Creative Commons License copyrighted by 2006-2011 Ricardo Garcia Gonzalez and maintained by him and a group of python developers
> ~ 
>  They are the ones keeping a mental map of that project. It would be a plus if they implement this feature, but anyother python developer can implemented (please, let me know if/when you do)
> ~ 
>  lbrtchx

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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 08:46:10 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 12:46:10 +0000
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com>

On 11/04/2011 12:33 AM, Anthony Kong wrote:
> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.
>
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?
>
> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.
>
> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy
>
>
>

Well this book is work in progress
https://bitbucket.org/BruceEckel/python-3-patterns-idioms/src

but it actually looks very interesting


From bkamrani at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:17:16 2011
From: bkamrani at gmail.com (Behnam)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 06:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB3051C.2010202@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <10127b29-23c5-4929-a20c-8a89ce6e385d@t8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

This was great. Thank you all!

/Behnam

On Nov 3, 5:18?pm, Catherine Moroney
<Catherine.M.Moro... at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> I've taken twoPythonclasses from David Beazley and can second
> Eric's recommendation. ?The "advanced" class is reallyadvanced
> and goes into some pretty mind-blowing stuff. ?The class comes with
> lots of problems and solutions, and a book of all the slides which are
> a great reference. ?Well worth the time and money!
>
> Catherine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Snow wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Anybody is aware of anyadvancedcourseinPythonpreferably in north
> >> america?
>
> >> I've been partly coding inPythonfor couple of years now and have
> >> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
> >>python. Any idea?
>
> > While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
> > thePythonsite):
>
> >http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining
>
> > I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
> > David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
> > outstanding courses. ?Only David is listed on that page to which I
> > linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
> > ?I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
> > fantastic.
>
> > -eric
>
> >> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >> --
> >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:31:32 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 06:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24728053.972.1320413492633.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>

Uhn, thanks for the easy way Just delete all *.pyc recursively. spend another 5-20
minutes to recompile all to get everything sync.. That is trivial!


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:31:32 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 06:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24728053.972.1320413492633.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>

Uhn, thanks for the easy way Just delete all *.pyc recursively. spend another 5-20
minutes to recompile all to get everything sync.. That is trivial!


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Nov  4 09:31:42 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:31:42 +0100
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
In-Reply-To: <4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
	<4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4EB3E93E.50500@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:48:02 +0000, lbrt chx _ gemale wrote:
>
>   
>> python-based youtube-dl
>> ~
>>  http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
>> ~
>>  is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length
>>  of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it
>>  is considered a "feature").
>>     
>
> If you are making a feature request, you should make it directly to the 
> project developer, and not here.
>
> Since you consider that feature "shouldn't be hard at all" (your words), 
> perhaps you should consider providing a patch? Don't forget the 
> documentation and tests for it.
>
> Or did you mean "it shouldn't be hard for me, if somebody else does the 
> work"?
>
>
>   
>> ~
>>  I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this
>>  nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
>>     
> [...]
>
> Lbrtchx, it's possible that English is not your natural language. Please 
> be aware that, in English, "what they were thinking..." is often used 
> sarcastically, as in "they weren't actually thinking". Particularly 
> following your use of scare quotes around "feature".
>
> (Even more so for the similar form, "what were they thinking?".)
>
> It's probably not going to help you get a feature added to the project if 
> you imply (even by accident) that lack of that feature is an indication 
> that the developer wasn't thinking.
>
>
>   
Maybe Lbrtchx is one of the Sheldon Cooper's nicknames :o)

JM

PS : I have the feeling that my nerdy reference will fall flat...


From slehar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:10:58 2011
From: slehar at gmail.com (Steven Lehar)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:10:58 -0400
Subject: Line continuation issue\
Message-ID: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>

Is this the right place to propose language extensions?

My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
contained within reasonable limits. But the standard line continuation \
is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
and [CR] will render it useless.

How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following whitespace
which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it to continue on
the next line.

Has this issue been discussed already?

  slehar
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From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov  4 11:38:32 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:38:32 +0100
Subject: Line continuation issue\
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j910tg$ul4$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven Lehar wrote:

> Is this the right place to propose language extensions?
> 
> My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
> contained within reasonable limits. 

You should attack this by breaking large expressions into smaller ones and 
factoring out some of your code into helper functions.

> But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
> and [CR] will render it useless.

Useless? You get a SyntaxError, remove the offending whitespace, and that's 
it.

> How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following whitespace
> which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it to continue on
> the next line.

Did you know that there already is a pythonic alternative that works well in 
most cases? An open (, [, or { will allow you to continue on the next line, 
e. g.

items = [(foo(item), bar(item))
    for row in rows
    for item in row if baz(
        alpha=1,
        beta=item)]

no strings attached.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:42:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 02:42:11 +1100
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Steven Lehar <slehar at gmail.com> wrote:
> But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \ and
> [CR] will render it useless.

How's it anti-Pythonic for invisible whitespace differences to be significant?

</troll>

ChrisA
*grinning, running, and ducking*


From slehar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:53:57 2011
From: slehar at gmail.com (Steven Lehar)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:53:57 -0400
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKz-UDPigUS_+7um40_mqSSwLGriMH7VHhd1qMfTtEEXcboCHQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
How's it anti-Pythonic for invisible whitespace differences to be
significant?

A central idea of Python was to replace {curly;braces{and;parentheses;}},
which are easily overlooked by the programmer, and use WHITESPACE instead,
something that is clearly visible to the programmer, as the defining
syntax. Make what is visible to humans significant to the interpreter.
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:56:19 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 02:56:19 +1100
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDPigUS_+7um40_mqSSwLGriMH7VHhd1qMfTtEEXcboCHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKz-UDPigUS_+7um40_mqSSwLGriMH7VHhd1qMfTtEEXcboCHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoSTwH0rEtTu0eG+rcWd6gJ_VjaGF8phvodXvG8puaJwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:53 AM, Steven Lehar <slehar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> How's it anti-Pythonic for invisible whitespace differences to be significant?
> A central idea of Python was to replace {curly;braces{and;parentheses;}}, which are easily overlooked by the programmer, and use WHITESPACE instead, something that is clearly visible to the programmer, as the defining syntax. Make what is visible to humans significant to the interpreter.
>

I refer more to the problems that perpetually plagued Python
programmers regarding tabs vs spaces (which I think was finally closed
off only in Python 3).

ChrisA


From k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 12:50:52 2011
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Subject: HOT HOT HOT
Message-ID: <d0fe4db6-ae37-4fb4-be68-de2eb0ee69ad@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

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From lbrt  Fri Nov  4 13:37:28 2011
From: lbrt (lbrt)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 17:37:28 GMT
Subject: short reading materials about anthropological,
	universal themes for students with no reading habit ...
In-Reply-To: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <1320428248.15512@nntp.aceinnovative.com>

> A few things to note:

> * Not all sites necessarily send the Content-Length header.
> * RTMP URLs would have to be treated differently
~ 
 No some don't, but at least for the ones that do (like youtube) it would be a useful feature. The Content-Length header is used in the code anyway
~ 
> * Sending a Range header might allow for a better implementation.
~ 
 Yes, it would
~ 
> Why do you want to restrict the filesize of the download in the first
> place? I can't see a use case, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
~ 
 OK, I see your point. Say, you have a list of youtube urls, which feeds you want to download using a script or a playlist someone put together, but you don't want to download files that are too large, which may not be of any use to you. For example, I teach and it doesn't make any sense to use a full movie as part of a class set. So I would like for youtube-dl to let me know which files are larger than a given size (and possibly save them in a file) for me to check the files first

 My languages are ANSI C, C++ and java. When I was young and silly would blab girls just because they crossed my way, now I don't like to even look into anything that I don't want to invest my time in on an ongoing basis. I would let people that code python and have a mental map of that code base do it themselves

 lbrtchx 



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 15:10:00 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 19:10:00 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> >>> def x(nonlocal_var):

...     def y():

...             z = lambda *, keyword_only=nonlocal_var: None

...     return y

...

>>> x(None)()

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>

  File "<stdin>", line 3, in y

SystemError: no locals when loading 'nonlocal_var'

>>> dis.dis(x)

  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (<code object y at
> 0x7f1fa5d57030, file "<stdin>", line 2>)

              3 MAKE_FUNCTION            0

              6 STORE_FAST               1 (y)


>   4           9 LOAD_FAST                1 (y)

             12 RETURN_VALUE

>>> dis.dis(x(None))

  3           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('keyword_only')

              3 LOAD_NAME                0 (nonlocal_var)

              6 LOAD_CONST               2 (<code object <lambda> at
> 0x7f1fa626aa48, file "<stdin>", line 3>)

              9 MAKE_FUNCTION          256

             12 STORE_FAST               0 (z)

             15 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)

             18 RETURN_VALUE

 Conclusion:
When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are inside
non-global scopes, cPython is unable to access *either the free variables
or global scope*  and raises SystemError.

This is cool, though:

> >>> def y():
> ...     global_var
> ...     z = lambda *, keyword_only=global_var: None
> ...
> >>> y()
> >>>

>>> dis.dis(y)
>   2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (global_var)
>               3 POP_TOP
>   3           4 LOAD_CONST               1 ('keyword_only')
>               7 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (global_var)
>              10 LOAD_CONST               2 (<code object <lambda> at
> 0x7f1fa5d4fd78, file "<stdin>", line 3>)
>              13 MAKE_FUNCTION          256
>              16 STORE_FAST               0 (z)
>              19 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>              22 RETURN_VALUE

 >>> def x(nonlocal_var):
> ...     def y():
> ...             nonlocal_var
> ...             z = lambda *, keyword_only=nonlocal_var: None
> ...     return y
> ...
> >>> x(None)()
> >>>

What is happening is that LOAD_NAME is trying to access the value
'nonlocal_var' from y.__code__.co_freevars, but compilation doesn't push it
there from the lambda, so adding a call to it causes it to work. The change
of opcode implies that locality is decided before the opcodes are made,
 and so not being pushed to co_freevars changes the opcode.

AKA:
*When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are
inside non-global scopes, cPython doesn't push the name to co_freevars.*

Now - where shall I report this?
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 15:45:26 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:45:26 -0400
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j91fd3$gja$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 8:46 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> Well this book is work in progress

Though not touched since May 2009

> https://bitbucket.org/BruceEckel/python-3-patterns-idioms/src
>
> but it actually looks very interesting

The slightly older .pdf version is a bit bizarre as parts of both text 
and code are only half-translated from Java. The testing chapter 
contains obviously untested code like TestDemo.py [sic] with Java lines like
    id = ++objCounter  # this is supposed to increment objCounter
    TestDemo test1 = TestDemo('test1')
    # I presume this declares test1 as a TestDemo object
and text with Javaisms like *static*, *public*, *private*, *protected*, 
and *friendly* and "a little review of Java packages".

Perhaps the later sections are more useful.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 16:01:14 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:01:14 -0400
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j91gao$n8r$1@dough.gmane.org>

For those not aware, the compiled file caching and import system was 
changed for 3.2. Given test.py, the compiled file is no longer test.pyc, 
in the same directory, but (for cpython32) 
__pycache__/test.cpython-32.pyc. Given the statement 'import test', the 
__pycache__ directory is only searched (for the name given above) after 
finding test.py. So if 'test.py' is deleted or renamed to 'mytest.py', 
an unchanged 'import test' will *fail* instead of importing the obsolete 
.pyc file. So there is no longer a functional reason to delete such 
obsolete files. However, the OP is stuck with 2.5.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 16:06:05 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:06:05 -0400
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j91gjq$pbh$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 11:10 AM, Steven Lehar wrote:
> Is this the right place to propose language extensions?

Yes, especially for beginners not familiar with previous discussions.
>
> My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
> contained within reasonable limits. But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
> and [CR] will render it useless.
>
> How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following
> whitespace which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it
> to continue on the next line.
>
> Has this issue been discussed already?

Yes ;=)
Peter already gave the standard answers.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From nad at acm.org  Fri Nov  4 16:11:14 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:11:14 -0700
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com> <j91fd3$gja$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-6D5FD7.13111404112011@news.gmane.org>

Search for presentations and videos by Alex Martelli.  He's the goto (so 
to speak) person on Python design patterns.  Here, for instance:

http://code.google.com/edu/languages/#_python_patterns

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov  4 19:15:01 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 23:15:01 GMT
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2446.1320436902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb471f4$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:01:14 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> For those not aware, the compiled file caching and import system was
> changed for 3.2. Given test.py, the compiled file is no longer test.pyc,
> in the same directory, but (for cpython32)
> __pycache__/test.cpython-32.pyc. Given the statement 'import test', the
> __pycache__ directory is only searched (for the name given above) after
> finding test.py. So if 'test.py' is deleted or renamed to 'mytest.py',
> an unchanged 'import test' will *fail* instead of importing the obsolete
> .pyc file. So there is no longer a functional reason to delete such
> obsolete files. However, the OP is stuck with 2.5.

Oh, I don't know, removing obsolete and useless crud from your file 
system seems like a good enough functional reason to me :)

However, the behaviour of Python 3.2 is a little more complicated than 
the above, since it must still support .pyc only software. If you have 
a .pyc file in the PYTHONPATH, but *outside* of a __pycache__ directory, 
and it is compiled for the correct version of Python, it will still be 
imported as usual.

I'm not sure what happens if you have two .pyc files, one inside the 
cache and one outside.

-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 20:42:02 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:42:02 -0400
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 3:10 PM, Joshua Landau wrote:
>     > >> def x(nonlocal_var):
>     ...     def y():
>     ...             z = lambda *, keyword_only=nonlocal_var: None
>     ...     return y
>     ...
>      >>> x(None)()
...
>     SystemError: no locals when loading 'nonlocal_var'
...
> Now - where shall I report this?

Joshua found bugs.python.org and, 2 hours later, a fix was applied.
http://bugs.python.org/issue13343

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 21:53:17 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 01:53:17 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUf=eO80YM5dD-F46ZKTVoG_OcW+VRJPbVG0eUawFUQFw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Joshua found bugs.python.org and, 2 hours later, a fix was applied.
> http://bugs.python.org/**issue13343 <http://bugs.python.org/issue13343>
>

It was impressively fast. Those python devs are like a hawk.
Although I wasn't expecting a three-line patch (plus a three line test).
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From jhsu802701 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 01:27:58 2011
From: jhsu802701 at gmail.com (Jason Hsu, Mr. Swift Linux)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 22:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can I fully replace GNU Bash with Python?
Message-ID: <a8736626-516f-40b7-8b0f-053b2c52a03a@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This question concerns my process of creating Swift Linux from the
base distro (antiX Linux in the past, Linux Mint Debian Edition now).
(NOTE: The process I'm describing here is an oversimplification.)

All of my development work takes place in the ~/develop directory.
This is the directory where I enter the "git clone" command to
download the repositories from GitHub.  These repositories are 1-
build, majorfunction1, majorfunction2, and so on.  After I download
these repositories, I have the directories ~/develop/1-build, ~/
develop/majorfunction1, ~/develop/majorfunction2, and so on.

The ~/develop/1-build directory contains the scripts that build Swift
Linux.  Each major function needed to create Swift Linux (such as
changing web browser configuration files, changing login manager
configuration files, etc.) has its own majorfunction# repository.

For developing the latest version of Swift Linux, I had the swift.sh
script in the  ~/develop/1-build directory call scripts in the
majorfunction directories with commands like:
sh ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.sh
sh ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.sh
and so on

Please note that one can run any of these major functions
independently OR as part of the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script.
The ability to run any major function independently means I can focus
on just one function that's not working as it should WITHOUT messing
around with other functions.  This ability will be especially
important when I have an actual team working on Swift Linux.

What I'd like to do is replace GNU Bash with Python.  I know I can
replace the main.sh scripts with main.py scripts.  Then the commands
in the swift.sh script would be:
python ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.py
python ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.py
and so on

Is there a way I can replace the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script
with a ~/develop/1-build/swift.py script, yet still retain the ability
to work on one major function WITHOUT requiring the other major
functions and the 1-build directory to be present?


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sat Nov  5 02:06:55 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:06:55 +0900
Subject: [ANN] pyKook 0.7.0 - task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake
	or Ant
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RvmGH=BD992cbE89B30W-d8FT1w34vsq93-x56HvuEyGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have released pyKook 0.7.0.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html

In this release, you can run commands on remote machines using ssh.
This is very useful to deploy your application.


pyKook Overview
---------------

pyKook is a task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake or Ant.

(Kookbook.py):

    kookbook.default = 'build'

    ## task
    @recipe(None, ['hello'])
    def build(c):
        """build all"""
        pass

    ## file
    @recipe('hello', ['hello.o'])
    def file_hello(c):
        """build 'hello' from 'hello.o'"""
        system(c%'gcc -o $(product) $(ingred)')

    ## rule
    @recipe('*.o', ['$(1).c', '$(1).h'])
    def file_o(c):
        system(c%'gcc -c $(ingred)')


Command-line:

    bash> kk     # or pykook
    $ gcc -c hello.c
    ### *** hello.o (recipe=file_o)
    $ gcc -c hello.c
    ### ** hello (recipe=file_hello)
    $ gcc -o hello hello.o
    ### * build (recipe=build)

See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html for details.


Enhancements in this release
----------------------------

* (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Remote command execution (ssh and sftp) is available.
  This is very useful to deploy your application into servers.

  Ex (Kookbook.py)::

	from kook.remote import Remote
	remote = Remote(
	    hosts    = ['www1', 'www2', 'user3 at www3:10022'],
	    port     = 22,
	    user     = 'user1',
	    #password = None,      # for login, '~/.ssh/id_rsa' and sudo
	    passphrase = None,     # only for '~/.ssh/id_rsa'
	    sudo_password = 'xxx', # only for sudo command
	)

	@recipe
	@remotes(remote)
	def hostinfo(c):
	    """show hostname"""
	    ssh = c.ssh
	    ssh('hostname')        # run command with ssh
	    ssh('whomai')          # run command with ssh
	    ssh.sudo('whoami')     # run command with sudo

	@recipe
	@remotes(remote)
	def exchange(c):
	    """upload and download files"""
	    ssh = c.ssh
	    with ssh.pushd('work/apps'):
	        ssh.get('file.remote')    # download a file
	        ssh.put('file.local')     # upload a file
	        ssh.mget('remote.*')      # download files
	        ssh.mput('local.*')       # upload files

  Notice that you must configure ssh at first and confirm that
  you can log into servers without typing password::

	bash> ssh user1 at www1
	bash> ssh user1 at www2
	bash> ssh -p 10022 user3 at www3
	bash> kk hostinfo
	### * showinfo (recipe=showinfo)
	[user1 at www1]$ hostame
	www1
	[user1 at www1]$ whoami
	user1
	[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
	root
	[user2 at www2]$ hostame
	www2
	[user2 at www2]$ whoami
	user2
	[user2 at www2]$ sudo whoami
	root
	[user3 at www3]$ hostame
	www3
	[user3 at www3]$ whami
	user3
	[user3 at www3]$ sudo whoami
	root

  Currently commands are executed sequencially (not in parallel).

* (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Password object supported.
  Password object asks you to enter password in prompt when necessary.

  Ex (Kookbook.py)::

	from kook.remote import Remote, Password
	remote = Remote(
	    hosts         = ['user1 at www1:22'],
	    #password     = Password('login'),
	    passphrase    = Password('~/.ssh/id_rsa'),
	    sudo_password = Password('sudo command')
	)
	#
	@recipe
	@remotes(remote)
	def remote_test(c):
	    ssh = c.ssh
	    ssh.sudo('whoami')

  Output example::

	bash> kk remote_test
	### * remote_test (recipe=remote_test)
	Password for ~/.ssh/id_rsa:
	Password for sudo command:
	[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
	root

  It is easy to share password object.

  Ex (Kookbook.py)::

	from kook.remote import Remote, Password
	passwd = Password()
	remote = Remote(
	    hosts         = ['user1 at www1:22'],
	    password      = passwd,
	    passphrase    = passwd,
	    sudo_password = passwd,
	)


Changes in this release
-----------------------

* Category class is changed to convers all instance methods into staticmethods.

  Ex (Kookbook.py):

	class apache(Category):
	    @recipe
	    def start(c):
	       system('apachectl start')

	## start() is converted into staticmethod
	assert type(apache.__dict__['start']) == staticmethod
	from types import FunctionType
	assert type(apache.start) == FuntionType

  This makes execution of other recipes in category easier::

	class apache(Category):
	    @recipe
	    def start(c):
	       ...
	    @recipe
	    def stop(c):
	       ...
	    @recipe
	    def restart(c):
	       apache.start(c)    # execute other recipe
	       apache.stop(c)     # execute other recipe

* (internal) kook.config.stdout and kook.config.stderr are removed.



See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-CHANGES.txt for details.


Have fun!

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov  5 03:50:42 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 03:50:42 -0400
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUf=eO80YM5dD-F46ZKTVoG_OcW+VRJPbVG0eUawFUQFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qUf=eO80YM5dD-F46ZKTVoG_OcW+VRJPbVG0eUawFUQFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j92pt0$s6b$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 9:53 PM, Joshua Landau wrote:
>     Joshua found bugs.python.org <http://bugs.python.org>and, 2 hours
>     later, a fix was applied.
>     http://bugs.python.org/__issue13343 <http://bugs.python.org/issue13343>
>
>
> It was impressively fast. Those python devs are like a hawk.
> Although I wasn't expecting a three-line patch (plus a three line test).

We are not always so fast, but the public perception of our speed is 
skewed by a) the occasional bug that sits on the tracker for years and 
b) the near invisibility of bugs caught and quickly fixed by a developer 
without posting an issue on the tracker.

In this case, you made a very good report with a minimal reproducible 
buggy code snippet, plus a report of similar snippets that worked. Then 
it was quickly seen by someone familiar with the relevant file.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 07:11:42 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:11:42 -0400
Subject: Can I fully replace GNU Bash with Python?
In-Reply-To: <a8736626-516f-40b7-8b0f-053b2c52a03a@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a8736626-516f-40b7-8b0f-053b2c52a03a@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJ6VZZVKzJRpoY5_SLuvLoW8iUeXDJJ47auGfP0hRywOw@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there a way I can replace the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script
> with a ~/develop/1-build/swift.py script, yet still retain the ability
> to work on one major function WITHOUT requiring the other major
> functions and the 1-build directory to be present?

I thought I followed along, but I don't see where the problem is here.
Did you try something and it didn't work, or are you asking if in
principle it can work?

In principle, it can work fine. the mainfunction modules can be
importable modules with some functions, or they can be (like they are
in sh) runnable scripts called by your build script, or whatever. You
can diverge as much as you want from how sh works, or stay as close as
you want, down to the level of only interoperating with other python
modules by invoking them as programs.

Devin

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Jason Hsu, Mr. Swift Linux
<jhsu802701 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This question concerns my process of creating Swift Linux from the
> base distro (antiX Linux in the past, Linux Mint Debian Edition now).
> (NOTE: The process I'm describing here is an oversimplification.)
>
> All of my development work takes place in the ~/develop directory.
> This is the directory where I enter the "git clone" command to
> download the repositories from GitHub. ?These repositories are 1-
> build, majorfunction1, majorfunction2, and so on. ?After I download
> these repositories, I have the directories ~/develop/1-build, ~/
> develop/majorfunction1, ~/develop/majorfunction2, and so on.
>
> The ~/develop/1-build directory contains the scripts that build Swift
> Linux. ?Each major function needed to create Swift Linux (such as
> changing web browser configuration files, changing login manager
> configuration files, etc.) has its own majorfunction# repository.
>
> For developing the latest version of Swift Linux, I had the swift.sh
> script in the ?~/develop/1-build directory call scripts in the
> majorfunction directories with commands like:
> sh ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.sh
> sh ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.sh
> and so on
>
> Please note that one can run any of these major functions
> independently OR as part of the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script.
> The ability to run any major function independently means I can focus
> on just one function that's not working as it should WITHOUT messing
> around with other functions. ?This ability will be especially
> important when I have an actual team working on Swift Linux.
>
> What I'd like to do is replace GNU Bash with Python. ?I know I can
> replace the main.sh scripts with main.py scripts. ?Then the commands
> in the swift.sh script would be:
> python ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.py
> python ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.py
> and so on
>
> Is there a way I can replace the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script
> with a ~/develop/1-build/swift.py script, yet still retain the ability
> to work on one major function WITHOUT requiring the other major
> functions and the 1-build directory to be present?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From pacopyc at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 08:50:38 2011
From: pacopyc at gmail.com (pacopyc)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 05:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: xml-rpc server on wine
Message-ID: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a XML-RPC server python running on VM Windows (on Linux)
and a XML-RPC client python on Linux. Server and client have different
IP address. I'd like migrate server on wine. How can communicate
server and client? IP address is different or is the same?
Can you help me?

Thanks


From ross at biostat.ucsf.edu  Sat Nov  5 15:03:27 2011
From: ross at biostat.ucsf.edu (Ross Boylan)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:03:27 -0700
Subject: inserting \ in regular expressions [solved]
In-Reply-To: <1319658482.13425.9.camel@corn.betterworld.us>
References: <1319658482.13425.9.camel@corn.betterworld.us>
Message-ID: <1320519807.18391.5.camel@corn.betterworld.us>

On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 12:48 -0700, Ross Boylan wrote:
> I want to replace every \ and " (the two characters for backslash and
> double quotes) with a \ and the same character, i.e.,
> \ -> \\
> " -> \"
I'd like to thank Ian, Dave, MRAB, and John for their helpful responses.
I hadn't realized the interpreter was giving me the repr, and that
differed from the str.

I've since found one other solution: email.utils.quote() does exactly
the substitution I was looking for--not surprising, since I was doing it
for email.

Here's my little test program:
#! /usr/bin/python
import email, email.utils, re
s0 = r'I am " a silly \quote'
print s0
print re.sub(r'(\\|")', r'\\\1', s0)
print email.utils.quote(s0)

Output
I am " a silly \quote
I am \" a silly \\quote
I am \" a silly \\quote

Ross




From logic at op.pl  Sat Nov  5 15:30:12 2011
From: logic at op.pl (wojciech777)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: httpd.conf configuration for mod_wsgi.so on wamp (apache)?
Message-ID: <ae57a3db-80dd-4f28-a037-0f8eeee18820@u12g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>

Hi there.

Is there any way to run python web application (or simple web page in
web.py) on Windows with wamp without starting built-in wsgi server
manually (python run.py).

I know there's a documentation on http://webpy.org/install#apachemodwsgi,
but it doesn't show where exactly in httpd.conf I should place the
commands.

In my example I would like to get start page, simply by typing in my
browser e.g. http://localhost:8070, and my file is located in: c:/
wamp/
www/xaura/run.py

source of run.py:
#!/usr/bin/env python
import web
urls = ('/', 'hello',
        '', 'hello')
class hello:
    def GET(self):
        return "Hello, world."
app = web.application(urls, globals())
if __name__ == "__main__": app.run()

Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Wojciech Ka?mierczak


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 16:11:28 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 13:11:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
Message-ID: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hello:

A new guy showed up at work a few weeks ago and has started talking
about replacing a 6 month old project, written in ASP.NET MVC, with an
open source solution that can handle massive scaling. I think his
primary concern is the "potential" need for massive web farms in the
future. In order to prevent high licensing costs, I think he wants to
move everything to open source technologies, such as the LAMP stack. I
also don't think he truly understands what ASP.NET MVC is and thinks
it is the older WebForms.

I have been researching open source MVC frameworks and came across
Django. It looks like an awesome tool, but I am willing to look at
others. I have experience in Python (and enough in PHP to want to
avoid it and absolutely none in Ruby) so I think it would be a good
language to develop in.

I was wondering if there were any ORMs for Python that used POPOs
(plain old Python objects). There is a lot of business logic in my
system, and so I want to keep my data objects simple and stupid. I
want the ORM to be responsible for detecting changes to objects after
I send them back to the data layer (rather than during business layer
execution). Additionally, being a stateless environment, tracking
objects' states isn't very useful anyway.

Honestly, I doubt this guy is going to get his wish. The people paying
for the application aren't going to be willing to throw 6 months of
work down the drain. Never the less, I want to have plenty of research
under my belt before being asked what my thoughts are. He was talking
about using the Zend Framework with PHP, but I want to avoid that if
possible. Django seems like one of the best MVC solutions in the
Python arena. I would be willing to replace Django's ORM solution with
something else, especially if it supported POPOs. I could even map all
of the non-POPOs to POPOs if I needed to, I guess.

Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
accepting POPOs from the data layer. Django would really just be a
coordinator: grab data from Django ORM, convert results into POPOs,
load up Python 3 module with business logic, passing POPOs, returning
POPOs and then converting those to view models. I'm sweating just
thinking about it. My guess is that there would be a severe penalty
for crossing process boundaries... but any insights would be
appreciated.

Thanks,
Travis Parks


From nawijn at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 16:35:55 2011
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 13:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0fe2f129-bbe2-4c7e-99e7-48f21b87a3bf@c1g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 5, 9:11?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> A new guy showed up at work a few weeks ago and has started talking
> about replacing a 6 month old project, written in ASP.NET MVC, with an
> open source solution that can handle massive scaling. I think his
> primary concern is the "potential" need for massive web farms in the
> future. In order to prevent high licensing costs, I think he wants to
> move everything to open source technologies, such as the LAMP stack. I
> also don't think he truly understands what ASP.NET MVC is and thinks
> it is the older WebForms.
>
> I have been researching open source MVC frameworks and came across
> Django. It looks like an awesome tool, but I am willing to look at
> others. I have experience in Python (and enough in PHP to want to
> avoid it and absolutely none in Ruby) so I think it would be a good
> language to develop in.
>
> I was wondering if there were any ORMs for Python that used POPOs
> (plain old Python objects). There is a lot of business logic in my
> system, and so I want to keep my data objects simple and stupid. I
> want the ORM to be responsible for detecting changes to objects after
> I send them back to the data layer (rather than during business layer
> execution). Additionally, being a stateless environment, tracking
> objects' states isn't very useful anyway.
>
> Honestly, I doubt this guy is going to get his wish. The people paying
> for the application aren't going to be willing to throw 6 months of
> work down the drain. Never the less, I want to have plenty of research
> under my belt before being asked what my thoughts are. He was talking
> about using the Zend Framework with PHP, but I want to avoid that if
> possible. Django seems like one of the best MVC solutions in the
> Python arena. I would be willing to replace Django's ORM solution with
> something else, especially if it supported POPOs. I could even map all
> of the non-POPOs to POPOs if I needed to, I guess.
>
> Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
> out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
> can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
> accepting POPOs from the data layer. Django would really just be a
> coordinator: grab data from Django ORM, convert results into POPOs,
> load up Python 3 module with business logic, passing POPOs, returning
> POPOs and then converting those to view models. I'm sweating just
> thinking about it. My guess is that there would be a severe penalty
> for crossing process boundaries... but any insights would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

Hello Travis,

I am not an expert in the field,  but I have used SQLAlchemy
(www.sqlalchemy.org)
for a while and was very happy with it. It should be able to scale up
to pretty
complex applications and large amounts of data.

Regards,

Marco


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 18:09:25 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 09:09:25 +1100
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmodoE1rRyGFq_DoOomy0SZyPfaEH7Re67C6Z54HknYPPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
> out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
> can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
> accepting POPOs from the data layer.

What you're going to have is completely separate processes; either
invoking Python3 and having it terminate after one action, or keeping
it running concurrently and passing data between them.

Has anyone ever extended AND embedded Python at the same time? Written
a Python module that ... executes Python code? Might be a bit tricky,
but possibly isolating the Py2 and Py3 code into different C source
files would help conserve programmer sanity (at the possible cost of
performance). Would be a tricky thing to juggle, but if you can pull
it off, you'd be able to - effectively - have a module in Django
that's written in Python 3, and directly callable.

Propagating parameters and return values would be a matter of
unpacking them into C objects and repacking them on the other side.
Propagating exceptions would be.... fun?

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 23:22:34 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 20:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 5, 4:11?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> A new guy showed up at work a few weeks ago and has started talking
> about replacing a 6 month old project, written in ASP.NET MVC, with an
> open source solution that can handle massive scaling. I think his
> primary concern is the "potential" need for massive web farms in the
> future. In order to prevent high licensing costs, I think he wants to
> move everything to open source technologies, such as the LAMP stack. I
> also don't think he truly understands what ASP.NET MVC is and thinks
> it is the older WebForms.
>
> I have been researching open source MVC frameworks and came across
> Django. It looks like an awesome tool, but I am willing to look at
> others. I have experience in Python (and enough in PHP to want to
> avoid it and absolutely none in Ruby) so I think it would be a good
> language to develop in.
>
> I was wondering if there were any ORMs for Python that used POPOs
> (plain old Python objects). There is a lot of business logic in my
> system, and so I want to keep my data objects simple and stupid. I
> want the ORM to be responsible for detecting changes to objects after
> I send them back to the data layer (rather than during business layer
> execution). Additionally, being a stateless environment, tracking
> objects' states isn't very useful anyway.
>
> Honestly, I doubt this guy is going to get his wish. The people paying
> for the application aren't going to be willing to throw 6 months of
> work down the drain. Never the less, I want to have plenty of research
> under my belt before being asked what my thoughts are. He was talking
> about using the Zend Framework with PHP, but I want to avoid that if
> possible. Django seems like one of the best MVC solutions in the
> Python arena. I would be willing to replace Django's ORM solution with
> something else, especially if it supported POPOs. I could even map all
> of the non-POPOs to POPOs if I needed to, I guess.
>
> Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
> out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
> can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
> accepting POPOs from the data layer. Django would really just be a
> coordinator: grab data from Django ORM, convert results into POPOs,
> load up Python 3 module with business logic, passing POPOs, returning
> POPOs and then converting those to view models. I'm sweating just
> thinking about it. My guess is that there would be a severe penalty
> for crossing process boundaries... but any insights would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
I can, to help form an unbiased opinion in case I need to make a
recommendation... or fight an all out battle.


From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 00:45:39 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 21:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What would happen when lisp meets prolog in python? Dao and Dinpy
	arises!
Message-ID: <d5cd84d9-b897-45f3-a335-d66ea5c63d90@e5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Dao is the new generation programming system implemented by a
functional logic solver,
unifying code with data, grammar with program, logic with functional,
compiling with running.

Would you please to have a look at my dao and dinpy?
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/daot
https://github.com/chaosim/dao

The feature of dao and dinpy:
* Mix functional and logic programming like prolog and lisp in python.
* A most powerful parser is provided, which have the power all of the
other parsers do not have. below is the list of some parser and
algorithms: parsec(haskell), packrat, earley parser, glr parser,
antlr, lex/yacc.
  What's the magic behind the dao? See samples\sexpression.py and
testsexpression.py for a sample.

  this is the key tips to the dao's dynamic grammar, which will become
a most powerful tool:

  (sexpression, function(
     # dynamic grammar arises!
    ([Result], and_p(char('{'), sexpression(Expr2), char('}'),
                     setvalue(Result,
eval_(pycall(sexpression2daoexpression, Expr2))))),

    ([Expr], atom_expression(Expr)),
    ([Expr], bracketExpression(Expr)),
    ([Expr], puncExpression(Expr))),

  # the kernel of dynamic grammar
  (eval_parse_result, function(
    ([Result], and_p(sexpression(Expr2), eoi,
          is_(Result, eval_(pycall(sexpression2daoexpression,
Expr2))))))),


From frank at chagford.com  Sun Nov  6 03:54:48 2011
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 10:54:48 +0200
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
Message-ID: <j95i0q$a8v$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hi all

I am using a few DB_API adaptors - ceODBC for Sql Server, psycopg2 for 
PostgreSQL, and sqlite3 for sqlite3.

They all offer the feature that if a cursor executes a SELECT, the cursor 
returns an iterator which can be used to fetch one row at a time. I have 
been using this feature for a while and it seems like a 'good thing'.

Now I am not so sure. I am using a connection pool to maintain connections 
to the database. A principle I am following is that a connection must be 
returned quickly, so that it is available for reuse.

I have been happily returning the connection, but keeping the cursor open 
while processing the rows selected. I now realise that this is dangerous. 
Therefore I have changed my system to execute fetchall() on the cursor 
before returning the connection. This obviously loses the benefit of the 
iterator.

I would appreciate confirmation that my thinking is correct on this issue. 
Or is there any way that I can have my cake and eat it?

Thanks

Frank Millman




From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Sun Nov  6 04:16:22 2011
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:16:22 +0100
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

"Frank Millman" <frank at chagford.com> writes:

> I am using a few DB_API adaptors - ceODBC for Sql Server, psycopg2 for
> PostgreSQL, and sqlite3 for sqlite3.
>
> They all offer the feature that if a cursor executes a SELECT, the
> cursor returns an iterator which can be used to fetch one row at a
> time. I have been using this feature for a while and it seems like a
> good thing'.
>
> Now I am not so sure. I am using a connection pool to maintain
> connections to the database. A principle I am following is that a
> connection must be returned quickly, so that it is available for
> reuse.
>
> I have been happily returning the connection, but keeping the cursor
> open while processing the rows selected. I now realise that this is
> dangerous. Therefore I have changed my system to execute fetchall() on
> the cursor before returning the connection. This obviously loses the
> benefit of the iterator.
>
> I would appreciate confirmation that my thinking is correct on this
> issue. Or is there any way that I can have my cake and eat it?

Your thinking is correct: you need to keep the connection while
processing the cursor. Databases are made to scale, you may well be
processing the first lines of the result before the DBMS has even
finished scanning tables. View this as a pipe, the cursor being one end
of the pipe. The usual setting, fetching one line at a time, lets you
overlap your processing with the network transfers.

Fetching all data, returning the connection, and then start processing
only makes sense if the processing take a lot of time (I mean: a lot
more than fetching results), which is a rare case. Unless you are in
such an extreme situation, I would suggest leaving the optimization to
the connection pool, which is here to solve what you are trying to
solve.

-- Alain.


From frank at chagford.com  Sun Nov  6 04:39:56 2011
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 11:39:56 +0200
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <j95kld$ng4$1@dough.gmane.org>


"Alain Ketterlin" <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote
> "Frank Millman" <frank at chagford.com> writes:
>
>> I am using a few DB_API adaptors - ceODBC for Sql Server, psycopg2 for
>> PostgreSQL, and sqlite3 for sqlite3.
>>
>> They all offer the feature that if a cursor executes a SELECT, the
>> cursor returns an iterator which can be used to fetch one row at a
>> time. I have been using this feature for a while and it seems like a
>> good thing'.
>>
>> Now I am not so sure. I am using a connection pool to maintain
>> connections to the database. A principle I am following is that a
>> connection must be returned quickly, so that it is available for
>> reuse.
>>
>> I have been happily returning the connection, but keeping the cursor
>> open while processing the rows selected. I now realise that this is
>> dangerous. Therefore I have changed my system to execute fetchall() on
>> the cursor before returning the connection. This obviously loses the
>> benefit of the iterator.
>>
>> I would appreciate confirmation that my thinking is correct on this
>> issue. Or is there any way that I can have my cake and eat it?
>
> Your thinking is correct: you need to keep the connection while
> processing the cursor. Databases are made to scale, you may well be
> processing the first lines of the result before the DBMS has even
> finished scanning tables. View this as a pipe, the cursor being one end
> of the pipe. The usual setting, fetching one line at a time, lets you
> overlap your processing with the network transfers.
>
> Fetching all data, returning the connection, and then start processing
> only makes sense if the processing take a lot of time (I mean: a lot
> more than fetching results), which is a rare case. Unless you are in
> such an extreme situation, I would suggest leaving the optimization to
> the connection pool, which is here to solve what you are trying to
> solve.
>

Thank you, Alain. That is very clear.

So my analysis of the problem is correct, but my solution is wrong.

Instead of executing fetchall() and returning the connection, I should 
retain the connection until I have exhausted the cursor.

That makes a lot of sense.

Frank




From merwin.irc at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 04:44:06 2011
From: merwin.irc at gmail.com (Merwin)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:44:06 +0100
Subject: SQLAlchemy DB Migration
Message-ID: <4EB656E6.2020805@gmail.com>

Hi everybody,

I'm looking for a way to migrate SQLAlchemy based database easily. I 
found Migrate, but finally it's almost the same as doing the migration 
by hand.

If this doesn't exists, do you think that it would be hard to do a 
simple migration tool which would :

     - Add/Delete columns from DB if they are not anymore in the models 
(With a confirmation for deletion)
     - Add/Delete constraints/sequences on table if they are not on the 
model too

We could also imagine a way to :

     - Handle column rename, with data copy from one to another
     - Handle column type change, with proper data conversion

Of course, such a system can't be 100% automated, that's not the goal. 
Human interventation will be needed, but it might be more simpler for 
simple cases than Migrate.

--
Thibaut


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From kevin.e.kenny at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 08:18:08 2011
From: kevin.e.kenny at gmail.com (Kev)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 05:18:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to undo a Python setuptools --prefix path blunder
Message-ID: <543f5b85-1248-4039-a12d-5bbcb2fb0f51@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

When I installed Python's setuptools I absent mindedly tacked on a --
prefix path I had been using on another machine:

sh setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg --prefix=/opt/python2.7.2

Now after this blunder when I try to install pip I get the following
error:

[root at kkdev src]# easy_install pip
Searching for pip
Best match: pip 1.0.2
Processing pip-1.0.2-py2.7.egg
pip 1.0.2 is already the active version in easy-install.pth
Installing pip script to /usr/bin
error: /usr/bin/pip: No such file or directory

What's happening is that a symbolic link is being created that points
to the folder I specified in the --prefix path which is obviously
wrong:

[root at kkdev src]# ls -al /usr/bin/pip
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Nov  5 17:01 /usr/bin/pip -> /opt/
python2.7.2/bin/pip

I deleted this link and then re-ran the setuptools installer and
specified the correct prefix (my Python install lives in /usr/lib/
python2.7):

sh setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg --prefix=/usr

I then re-ran easy_install pip and it looked like I'd fixed my finger
trouble. However when I went to install virtualenv I encountered the
same problem:

[root at kkdev src]# pip install virtualenv

[uninteresting installer output snipped]

Installing virtualenv script to /usr/bin

error: /usr/bin/virtualenv: No such file or directory

Again the wrong path is being used to create the symbolic link to
where virtualenv is installed:

[root at kkdev src]# ls -al /usr/bin/virtualenv
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 Nov  5 17:01 /usr/bin/virtualenv -> /opt/
python2.7.2/bin/virtualenv

(I'm running Fedora 15 32bit which has Python 2.7.1 installed out of
the box)

How do I fix/repair this permanently?

Thanks
Kevin





From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov  6 10:17:54 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:17:54 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
Message-ID: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>

Hi

This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that 
places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
     https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools

I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year by 
the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about 100,000 
files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and do a few 
other things.

CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the 
latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many 
earlier versions.

I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version control. 
Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's putting new 
files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
     http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/

My script works already as a proof of concept, but needs more work (and 
documentation) before it becomes useful.  I've requested that follow up 
goes to comp.text.tex.

Longer terms goals are git as
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_storage
* a resource editing and linking system

If you didn't know, a git tree is much like an immutable JSON object, 
except that it does not have arrays or numbers.

If my project interests you, reply to this message or contact me 
directly (or both).

-- 
Jonathan


From jnareb at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 11:42:23 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 08:42:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m37h3d430e.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:

> Hi
> 
> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>      https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools

I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.
 
> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
> do a few other things.

There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
out.
 
> CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the
> latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many
> earlier versions.

There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
of gitPAN, see e.g.:

  "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
  http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
 
[1]: https://github.com/gitpan

> I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version
> control. Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's
> putting new files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
>      http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/

Nb. thanks to tools such as git-hg and fast-import / fast-export
we have quite good interoperability and convertability between
Git and Mercurial.

P.S. I'd point to reposurgeon tool, which can be used to do fixups
after import, but it would probably won't work on such large (set of)
repositories.

P.P.S. Can you forward it to comp.text.tex?
-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


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From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Nov  6 13:14:43 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 13:14:43 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
Message-ID: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>

Greetings experts:

I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and 
fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python 
isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.

But it also runs instantly on linux.

This line looks suspect to me:
 rootdir = sys.argv[1]

And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.

How can I fix that best?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Most of the fear that spoils our life comes from attacking difficulties
before we get to them.
		-- Dr. Frank Crane


From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov  6 13:19:39 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:19:39 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>
> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is 
often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to 
put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select 
suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular package. 
Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all resources needed 
to process this file, exactly as it processes on my machine".

In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a 
git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011 
to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the ISO 
when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to pull 
the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).

>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>> do a few other things.
>
> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
> out.

Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what I 
want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some (but 
not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
 
https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py

In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref 
at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of a 
TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so any 
commit information would be effectively constant.

>> CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the
>> latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many
>> earlier versions.
>
> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>
>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>
> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan

This is really good to know!!!  Not only has this been done already, for 
similar reasons, but github is hosting it.  Life is easier when there is 
a good example to follow.

>> I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version
>> control. Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's
>> putting new files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
>>       http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/
>
> Nb. thanks to tools such as git-hg and fast-import / fast-export
> we have quite good interoperability and convertability between
> Git and Mercurial.
>
> P.S. I'd point to reposurgeon tool, which can be used to do fixups
> after import, but it would probably won't work on such large (set of)
> repositories.

Thank you for the pointer to reposurgeon.  My approach is a bit 
different.  First, get all the files into git, and then 'edit the tree' 
to create new trees.  And then commit worthwhile new trees.

As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux 
kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But no 
commit.

> P.P.S. Can you forward it to comp.text.tex?

Done.

-- 
Jonathan



From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov  6 13:19:39 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:19:39 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>
> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is 
often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to 
put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select 
suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular package. 
Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all resources needed 
to process this file, exactly as it processes on my machine".

In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a 
git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011 
to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the ISO 
when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to pull 
the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).

>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>> do a few other things.
>
> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
> out.

Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what I 
want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some (but 
not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
 
https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py

In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref 
at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of a 
TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so any 
commit information would be effectively constant.

>> CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the
>> latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many
>> earlier versions.
>
> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>
>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>
> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan

This is really good to know!!!  Not only has this been done already, for 
similar reasons, but github is hosting it.  Life is easier when there is 
a good example to follow.

>> I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version
>> control. Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's
>> putting new files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
>>       http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/
>
> Nb. thanks to tools such as git-hg and fast-import / fast-export
> we have quite good interoperability and convertability between
> Git and Mercurial.
>
> P.S. I'd point to reposurgeon tool, which can be used to do fixups
> after import, but it would probably won't work on such large (set of)
> repositories.

Thank you for the pointer to reposurgeon.  My approach is a bit 
different.  First, get all the files into git, and then 'edit the tree' 
to create new trees.  And then commit worthwhile new trees.

As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux 
kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But no 
commit.

> P.P.S. Can you forward it to comp.text.tex?

Done.

-- 
Jonathan



From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 15:00:59 2011
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 12:00:59 -0800
Subject: RSS feed creation?
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
require large dependencies?

I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
automated test gives a traceback.

Is there a better starting point?

(I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
for either)
-------------- next part --------------
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From d at davea.name  Sun Nov  6 15:21:12 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:21:12 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>

On 11/06/2011 01:14 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings experts:
>
> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and
> fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python
> isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
>
> But it also runs instantly on linux.
>
> This line looks suspect to me:
>   rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>
> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
>
> How can I fix that best?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene

Nothing wrong with that line, assuming the user of the script happened 
to provide an argument for rootpath.  Probably it should be preceded by 
a a conditional:

     if len(argv) <2:
            tell.user.that.she's.missing.the.rootdir.parameter
      else:
            rootdir = sys.argv[1]
            etc.

What does the help text show when you run the script with the --help 
argument?

-- 

DaveA



From jnareb at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 15:28:33 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: 06 Nov 2011 21:28:33 +0100
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:
> On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>>
>>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>>
>> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
>> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

[moved]
>> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
>> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
>> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>>
>>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan
[/moved]
 
> There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is
> often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to
> put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
(i.e. during install).
 
Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
> machine".

This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)

This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.


But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
have best user interface.
 
> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

???

> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
_clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.

Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
different.

> But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).
> 
>>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>>> do a few other things.
>>
>> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
>> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
>> out.
> 
> Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what
> I want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some
> (but not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
>  https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py
> 
> In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref
> at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of
> a TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so
> any commit information would be effectively constant.

Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
 
> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
> no commit.

That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


From jnareb at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 15:29:28 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 12:29:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to comp.lang.python,comp.text.tex as well.

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:
> On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>>
>>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>>
>> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
>> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

[moved]
>> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
>> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
>> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>>
>>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan
[/moved]
 
> There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is
> often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to
> put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
(i.e. during install).
 
Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
> machine".

This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)

This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.


But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
have best user interface.
 
> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

???

> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
_clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.

Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
different.

> But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).
> 
>>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>>> do a few other things.
>>
>> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
>> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
>> out.
> 
> Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what
> I want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some
> (but not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
>  https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py
> 
> In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref
> at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of
> a TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so
> any commit information would be effectively constant.

Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
 
> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
> no commit.

That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Nov  6 15:34:29 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 07:34:29 +1100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <20111106203429.GA4790@cskk.homeip.net>

On 06Nov2011 13:14, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
| Greetings experts:
| 
| I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and 
| fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python 
| isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
| 
| But it also runs instantly on linux.
| 
| This line looks suspect to me:
|  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
| 
| And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.

That line collects the first command line argument. sys.argv is the
command line; argv[0] is the command name, argv[1] the first argument
and so forth.

Also, if there is no first argument then trying to access argv[1] will
raise an IndexError exception, not return a null value.

If you're this new to python, note that easy debugging statements can be
written:

  print >>sys.stderr, "the value of foo is", foo

and so forth.

Perhaps more relevantly:

If you have unmangled a lot of tabs, remember that control flow is
indentation based in python, and you may have broken some logic.
(For this reason a number of us set our editors to work only in spaces).

Anyway, while changing:

  statement1
  statement2

into:

  statement1
    statement2

will usually make python complain, changing:

  if some test here:
    statement1
    statement2

into:

  if some test here:
    statement1
  statement2

just means that statement2 is no longer inside the if-statement, and
elicit no compaints. But will elicit bugs!

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

The ZZR-1100 is not the bike for me, but the day they invent "nerf" roads
and ban radars I'll be the first in line......AMCN


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Nov  6 18:10:03 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:10:03 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>
Message-ID: <201111061810.03728.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Sunday, November 06, 2011 06:07:36 PM Dave Angel did opine:

> On 11/06/2011 01:14 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Greetings experts:
> > 
> > I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
> > and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
> > least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
> > 
> > But it also runs instantly on linux.
> > 
> > This line looks suspect to me:
> >   rootdir = sys.argv[1]
> > 
> > And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
> > 
> > How can I fix that best?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Nothing wrong with that line, assuming the user of the script happened
> to provide an argument for rootpath.  Probably it should be preceded by
> a a conditional:
> 
>      if len(argv) <2:
>             tell.user.that.she's.missing.the.rootdir.parameter
>       else:
>             rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>             etc.
> 
> What does the help text show when you run the script with the --help
> argument?

It has no --help:
[root at coyote gene]# ./duqu-drivers-detect.py --help
[root at coyote gene]#

Sorry.

Thanks & Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Expedience is the best teacher.


From devplayer at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 18:23:02 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 15:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Usefulness of the "not in" operator
References: <4e902932$0$23273$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<87ehyn8xlp.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<4acd4e59-cf83-47f5-ac6c-ee0cbec8aa34@u13g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>
	<4e9a6614$0$29971$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <35178454-e3e3-4268-8841-8709c93a4719@g7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 16, 12:05?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:04:24 -0700, DevPlayer wrote:
> > I thought "x not in y" was later added as syntax sugar for "not x in y"
> > meaning they used the same set of tokens. (Too lazy to check the actual
> > tokens)
Stated in response to OP wanting a seperate token for "not in" verse
"is not".

> Whether the compiler has a special token for "not in" is irrelevant.
I don't know.

> Perhaps it uses one token, or two, or none at all because a
> pre-processor changes "x not in y" to "not x in y". That's
> an implementation detail.
I agree.

> What's important is whether it is valid syntax or not, and how it is
> implemented.
I agree.

> As it turns out, the Python compiler does not distinguish the two forms:
>
> >>> from dis import dis
> >>> dis(compile('x not in y', '', 'single'))
>
> ? 1 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1 (y)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 COMPARE_OP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7 (not in)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 PRINT_EXPR
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 RETURN_VALUE ? ? ? ?>>> dis(compile('not x in y', '', 'single'))
>
> ? 1 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1 (y)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 COMPARE_OP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7 (not in)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 PRINT_EXPR
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 RETURN_VALUE

So cool! Thanks for showing how to do that.

I tried to say implementing a seperate method was not efficient.

> Also for what it is worth, "x not in y" goes back to at least Python 1.5,
> and possibly even older. (I don't have any older versions available to
> test.)
So "not in" was added as an alternative (just a long time ago).
I too am glad they added it.

> (2) Instead of writing "True if blah else False", write "bool(blah)".
Good tip! I like.

>
> > class Y(object):
> > ? ? def __contains__(self, x):
> > ? ? ? ? for item in y:
> > ? ? ? ?     if x == y:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?     return True
> > ? ? ? ? return False
>
> You don't have to define a __contains__ method if you just want to test
> each item sequentially. All you need is to obey the sequence protocol and
> define a __getitem__ that works in the conventional way:

Didn't intend to show how to implement __contains__ using "==" and
__not_contains__ "<>" in python but to show that python didn't benefit
from the not_in loop as much as for example assembly language does
it's loop (x86 LOOPE/LOOPZ vs LOOPNZ/LOOPNE).

>
> >>> class Test:
>
> ... ? ? def __init__(self, args):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? self._data = list(args)
> ... ? ? def __getitem__(self, i):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? return self._data[i]
> ...>>> t = Test("abcde")
> >>> "c" in t
> True
> >>> "x" in t
> False
Another new thing for me.

>
> Defining a specialist __contains__ method is only necessary for non-
> sequences, or if you have some fast method for testing whether an item is
> in the object quickly. If all you do is test each element one at a time,
> in numeric order, don't bother writing __contains__.
>
> > And if you wanted "x not in y" to be a different token you'd have to ADD
>
> Tokens are irrelevant. "x not in y" is defined to be the same as "not x
> in y" no matter what.
> You can't define "not in" to do something completely different.
I agree they are not implemented differently.
I agree that they shouldn't be implemented differently.
I disagree they can not be implemented differently. I think they can.
But I see no reason too.

> > class Y(object):
> > ? ? def __not_contained__(self, x):
> > ? ? ? ? for item in self:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? if x == y:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
> > ? ? ? ? return True
>
> > AND with __not_contained__() you'd always have to iterate the entire
> > sequence to make sure even the last item doesn't match.
> > SO with one token "x not in y" you DON'T have to itterate through the
> > entire sequence thus it is more effiecient.
> That's not correct.
> Steven
I tried to prove my point and failded and instead proved (to myself)
you are correct. It is not more efficient. Also I should have used if
<> y: continue to have better tried to make the point but it wouldn't
have mattered. I still would have been wrong.

But I did walk away from this topic with some goodie tips. Thanks
Steven.




From d at davea.name  Sun Nov  6 18:27:23 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:27:23 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111061810.03728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>
	<201111061810.03728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB717DB.2000303@davea.name>

On 11/06/2011 06:10 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Sunday, November 06, 2011 06:07:36 PM Dave Angel did opine:
>
>> On 11/06/2011 01:14 PM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings experts:
>>>
>>> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
>>> and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
>>> least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
>>>
>>> But it also runs instantly on linux.
>>>
>>> This line looks suspect to me:
>>>    rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>>>
>>> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
>>>
>>> How can I fix that best?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene
>>
>> Nothing wrong with that line, assuming the user of the script happened
>> to provide an argument for rootpath.  Probably it should be preceded by
>> a a conditional:
>>
>>       if len(argv)<2:
>>              tell.user.that.she's.missing.the.rootdir.parameter
>>        else:
>>              rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>>              etc.
>>
>> What does the help text show when you run the script with the --help
>> argument?
>
> It has no --help:
> [root at coyote gene]# ./duqu-drivers-detect.py --help
> [root at coyote gene]#
>
> Sorry.
>
> Thanks&  Cheers, Gene


So is there any documentation?  If not, your first job is to guess what 
it's supposed to do, figure out if you care, and then document it.  In 
the process you'll probably find a few bugs.

First bug is it silently quits when you run it with no arguments. Is 
that true?  If so, figure out where it quits, since it clearly never 
reaches the line you quote.

Actually I'd probably start with the assumption that you might have 
messed up the tab expansion somewhere.  How did you expand the tabs? 
Perhaps by using the Linux expands utility?  Or did you do it manually?

-- 

DaveA


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 18:54:46 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:54:46 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <20111106203429.GA4790@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<20111106203429.GA4790@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <2FF5E7E0-B119-4906-91A7-93A095E8D620@gmail.com>

On Nov 6, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> Perhaps more relevantly:
> 
> If you have unmangled a lot of tabs, remember that control flow is
> indentation based in python, and you may have broken some logic.
> (For this reason a number of us set our editors to work only in spaces).

I would absolutely check this first.  I can't count the number of programs I've screwed up in difficult-to-detect ways because I've converted from tabs to spaces incorrectly.  It's how I've finally learned to let a program/script do it for me, because Python is the first language I've used with significant leading whitespace.

- Dave



From jiayuaw at yahoo.com.sg  Sun Nov  6 20:26:43 2011
From: jiayuaw at yahoo.com.sg (Kristen Aw)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:26:43 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: question about Tkinter delete
Message-ID: <1320629203.53499.YahooMailNeo@web77904.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

Hi all

I don't understand why I get this error. I'm trying to delete the existing points, then redraw them after this bit of code to 'animate' my simulation.

def update(self, point1, point2):
? ? ? ? # Deletes existing points
? ? ? ? if self.point1:
? ? ? ? ? ? self.w.delete(point1)
? ? ? ? ? ? self.master.update_idletasks()
? ? ? ? if self.point2:
? ? ? ? ? ? self.w.delete(point2)
? ? ? ? ? ? self.master.update_idletasks()
#draw new point
# . . .

The error message that I get is:
. . .?in update
? ? self.w.delete(point1)
? File "C:\PYTHON26\LIB\LIB-TK\Tkinter.py", line 2181, in delete
? ? self.tk.call((self._w, 'delete') + args)
TclError: invalid command name ".44593760"
-------------- next part --------------
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov  6 21:54:16 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Nov 2011 02:54:16 GMT
Subject: Python lesson please
References: <mailman.2468.1320603689.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb74858$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:14:43 -0500, gene heskett wrote:

> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and 
> fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least
> python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.

<raises eyebrow>

Presumably the script should be working. If it is known to be not 
working, then you probably need to fix a lot more than just indentation.

If this is "pre-alpha, doesn't even compile" software, then good luck, 
you'll need to read the source and understand it to make it work. It's 
not sufficient to just get it to a point where you can say "Cool, it 
compiles!" by fixing some indentation.

If this is supposed to be working, there's a reason why it's not working 
for you. Perhaps you are trying to use it with the wrong version of 
Python. Perhaps the download is corrupted. Fix those before mangling 
indentation in random ways: start with a fresh, uncorrupted download. 
Check that the md5 sum matches that provided by the download site 
(assuming they provide one). Find out what version of Python is 
supported, and use that.


> This line looks suspect to me:
>  rootdir = sys.argv[1]

What makes you think that line is suspect? It looks fine to me.


> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.

This is Python, not bash. Sys arguments are not filled in with "null", 
whatever you think "null" is. (The None built-in? The empty string?)

Have you tried giving the script an argument when you call it? If in 
doubt, call it with "." (the current directory) as argument.

My wild guess is that you actually need to supply a meaningful directory 
path before the script will do anything, and until then, it will silently 
fail. Which is terrible design.


> How can I fix that best?

If it's not broken, it doesn't need to be fixed. Don't make assumptions 
about what code needs to be fixed based on nothing more than gut feeling.



-- 
Steven


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sun Nov  6 23:12:58 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:12:58 +0900
Subject: [ANN] Oktest.py 0.10.0 released - a new-style testing library
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rt57qpwiKjWZ=X1dQ-p7Bju=SoYgdE-t8_jnvKreU_Wkw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I released Oktest.py 0.10.0.
http://packages.python.org/Oktest/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/oktest/

Oktest.py is a new-style testing library for Python.
::

    from oktest import ok, NG
    ok (x) > 0                 # same as assertTrue(x > 0)
    ok (s) == 'foo'            # same as assertEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (s) != 'foo'            # same as assertNotEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (f).raises(ValueError)  # same as assertRaises(ValueError, f)
    ok (u'foo').is_a(unicode)  # same as assertTrue(isinstance(u'foo', unicode))
    NG (u'foo').is_a(int)      # same as assertTrue(not isinstance(u'foo', int))
    ok ('A.txt').is_file()     # same as assertTrue(os.path.isfile('A.txt'))
    NG ('A.txt').is_dir()      # same as assertTrue(not os.path.isdir('A.txt'))

See
  http://www.kuwata-lab.com/oktest/oktest-py_users-guide.html
for details.


Changes and Enhancements
------------------------

* [change] 'oktest.spec()' is obsoleted completely.
  It will print warning message if you use it.

* [change] 'oktest.helper' module is renamed to 'oktest.util'.
  ('oktest.helper' is still available for backward compabibility.)

* [enhance] Add 'oktest.main()' which is a replacement of 'oktest.run()'.
  Using 'oktest.main()' instead of 'oktest.run()', command options are
available.
  ex::

    ## for example:
    $ python test/foobar_test.py -sp -f test='*keyword*'
    ## is almost same as:
    $ python -m oktest test/foobar_test.py -sp -f test='*keyword*'

* [enhance] Add 'oktest.fail(message)' which is same as
'unittest.fail(message)'.
  ex::

    from oktest import fail
    fail("not impelmented yet")    # will raise AssertionError

* [enhance] (Experimental) Add '@todo' decorator which is equivarent to
  '@unittest.expectedFailure'.
  ex::

    from oktest import ok, test, todo

    def add(x, y):
        return 0      # not implemented yet!

    class AddTest(unittest.TestCase):
        @test("returns sum of arguments.")
	@todo         # equivarent to @unittest.expectedFailure
        def _(self):
	    ok (10, 20) == 30   ## will be failed expectedly
	                        ## (because not implemented yet)

  Expected failure of assertion is reported as '[TODO]', not '[Failed]'.

* [enhance] (Experimental) Test context supported.
  It helps you to describe specification in structured style.
  ex::

    from oktest import ok, test
    from oktest.context import subject, situation

    class SampleTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
      SUBJECT = "class 'Sample'"

      with subject("method1()"):

        with situation("when condition:"):

          @test("spec1")
            def _(self):
            ...

          @test("spec2")
          def _(self):
            ...

        with situation("else:"):

          @test("spec3")
          def _(self):
            ...

  Output exmple::

    $ python test/example_test.py
    * class 'Sample'
      + method1()
        + when condition:
	  - [ok] spec1
	  - [ok] spec2
        + else:
	  - [ok] spec3
    ## total:3, passed:3, failed:0, error:0, skipped:0   (elapsed 0.000)


--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Nov  7 01:04:43 2011
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 22:04:43 -0800
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2472.1320609864.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>	<87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>	<j95kld$ng4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2472.1320609864.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb77503$0$1692$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

On 11/6/2011 12:04 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 11:39:56 +0200, "Frank Millman"<frank at chagford.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> So my analysis of the problem is correct, but my solution is wrong.
>>
>> Instead of executing fetchall() and returning the connection, I should
>> retain the connection until I have exhausted the cursor.
>>
>> That makes a lot of sense.
>>
> 	Especially if all you are processing are read-only activities.
>
> 	If you have a connection/cursor doing write operations, you may not
> be able to commit those writes until all reading cursors have closed.
> (Read the documentation on the SQLite3 locking system -- though the
> newest version has added a second type of locking which may complicate
> the matter. The original/normal scheme has potential readers "outside"
> SQLite3, active readers "inside" SQLite3 -- when an active reader cursor
> advances to a pending write, it blocks all the potential readers from
> entering, but is itself blocked until all other active readers have
> exited)

    Right.  The scarce resource is database locks, not connections.
Especially with SQLite, which has, by necessity, a rather brutal
locking strategy.

    Realize that SQLite is not a high-performance multi-user database.
You use SQLite to store your browser preferences, not your customer
database.

    If you're doing enough transactions from multiple processes that
performance is an issue, you need to move up to MySQL or Postgres.
If almost all transactions are SELECTs, performance may not be
too bad, but if there are INSERT and UPDATE transactions on the
same table, performance will be awful.

				John Nagle


From mcepl at redhat.com  Mon Nov  7 01:50:36 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:50:36 +0100
Subject: How to undo a Python setuptools --prefix path blunder
In-Reply-To: <543f5b85-1248-4039-a12d-5bbcb2fb0f51@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <543f5b85-1248-4039-a12d-5bbcb2fb0f51@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j97v18$6nt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Dne 6.11.2011 14:18, Kev napsal(a):
> Again the wrong path is being used to create the symbolic link to
> where virtualenv is installed:

http://packages.python.org/distribute/easy_install.html#administrator-installation 
for list of additional configuration files which might go wrong (namely 
*.pth and distutils.cfg).

Is that it?

Mat?j


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov  7 02:22:37 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:22:37 +0100
Subject: RSS feed creation?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>

Dan Stromberg, 06.11.2011 21:00:
> Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
> require large dependencies?
>
> I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
> automated test gives a traceback.
>
> Is there a better starting point?
>
> (I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
> for either)

I'd just go with ElementTree and builder.py.

http://effbot.org/zone/element-builder.htm

http://effbot.python-hosting.com/file/stuff/sandbox/elementlib/builder.py

Building an RSS-API on top of that is so trivial that it's not worth any 
further dependencies anyway. Not sure if this version of builder.py runs in 
Py3, but it certainly won't be hard to fix even if it doesn't currently.

Stefan



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov  7 03:24:59 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 09:24:59 +0100
Subject: RSS feed creation?
In-Reply-To: <j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j984kr$4gp$1@dough.gmane.org>

Stefan Behnel, 07.11.2011 08:22:
> Dan Stromberg, 06.11.2011 21:00:
>> Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
>> require large dependencies?
>>
>> I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
>> automated test gives a traceback.
>>
>> Is there a better starting point?
>>
>> (I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
>> for either)
>
> I'd just go with ElementTree and builder.py.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-builder.htm
>
> http://effbot.python-hosting.com/file/stuff/sandbox/elementlib/builder.py

Hmm, interesting, that last link doesn't seem to work for me anymore. 
Here's a copy, however:

http://svn.effbot.org/public/stuff/sandbox/elementlib/builder.py

There's also an extended version for lxml.etree:

https://raw.github.com/lxml/lxml/master/src/lxml/builder.py

You'll quickly see if it works as expected with plain ET when you use it. 
It should in general.

> Building an RSS-API on top of that is so trivial that it's not worth any
> further dependencies anyway. Not sure if this version of builder.py runs in
> Py3, but it certainly won't be hard to fix even if it doesn't currently.

Stefan



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 04:00:02 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 +0100
Subject: Python lesson please
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>

gene heskett wrote:

> Greetings experts:
> 
> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and
> fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python
> isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
> 
> But it also runs instantly on linux.
> 
> This line looks suspect to me:
>  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
> 
> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
> 
> How can I fix that best?

Are you talking about this one?

https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns.py

With a current checkout I don't get any tab-related (nor other) errors, so I 
would prefer to run the script as-is. Also, the  README clearly states that 
you have to invoke it with

python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware

and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware" into 
the rootdir variable.

If you want to normalize the code to 4-space indents I recomment that you 
use

http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/bbc929bc2224/Tools/scripts/reindent.py

On Ubuntu (and probably any other Debian-based distro) you'll find a version 
of that in 

/usr/share/doc/python2.6/examples/Tools/scripts/reindent.py

or similar once you've installed the python-examples package.



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 04:22:28 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:22:28 +0100
Subject: question about Tkinter delete
References: <1320629203.53499.YahooMailNeo@web77904.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j9880f$p8a$1@dough.gmane.org>

Kristen Aw wrote:

> I don't understand why I get this error. I'm trying to delete the existing 
points, then redraw them after this bit of code to 'animate' my simulation.
> 
> def update(self, point1, point2):
>         # Deletes existing points
>         if self.point1:
>             self.w.delete(point1)
>             self.master.update_idletasks()
>         if self.point2:
>             self.w.delete(point2)
>             self.master.update_idletasks()
> #draw new point
> # . . .
> 
> The error message that I get is:
> . . . in update
>     self.w.delete(point1)
>   File "C:\PYTHON26\LIB\LIB-TK\Tkinter.py", line 2181, in delete
>     self.tk.call((self._w, 'delete') + args)
> TclError: invalid command name ".44593760"

Your snippet and your problem description are both a bit short to be sure. 
Is self.w a Tkinter.Canvas widget? It seems the canvas doesn't exist anymore 
when you're trying to delete objects on it. Here's a demonstration:

>>> import Tkinter as tk
>>> root = tk.Tk()
>>> canvas = tk.Canvas(root, height=100, width=100)
>>> canvas.delete("123")
>>> canvas.destroy()
>>> canvas.delete("123")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2184, in delete
    self.tk.call((self._w, 'delete') + args)
_tkinter.TclError: invalid command name ".139675427025264"




From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 06:22:39 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:22:39 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:

> gene heskett wrote:
> > Greetings experts:
> > 
> > I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
> > and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
> > least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
> > 
> > But it also runs instantly on linux.
> > 
> > This line looks suspect to me:
> >  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
> > 
> > And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
> > 
> > How can I fix that best?
> 
> Are you talking about this one?
> 
> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
> .py
 
Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I 
pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.

But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6

> With a current checkout I don't get any tab-related (nor other) errors,
> so I would prefer to run the script as-is. Also, the  README clearly
> states that you have to invoke it with
> 
> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
> 
> and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware"
> into the rootdir variable.

If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and instant.  
Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But it needs to skip 
/dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and /media because they are not 
part of the running system even if disks are mounted there.
 
> If you want to normalize the code to 4-space indents I recomment that
> you use
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/bbc929bc2224/Tools/scripts/reindent.py
 
Got it, where does it normally live? I apparently have a python-2.6.6 
install.

> On Ubuntu (and probably any other Debian-based distro) you'll find a
> version of that in
> 
PCLos is rpm based, lots of mandriva stuff in it.

> /usr/share/doc/python2.6/examples/Tools/scripts/reindent.py
>
Path does not exist.  Ends at /usr/share/doc
from there I have:
gene at coyote doc]$ ls|grep python
gimp-python-2.6.11/
gnome-python-gconf-2.28.1/
gnome-python-gnomeprint-2.32.0/
gnome-python-gtksourceview-2.32.0/
libxml2-python-2.7.8/
python-2.6.6/
python3-3.2.1/
python3-docs-3.2.1/
python-cairo-1.10.0/
python-configobj-4.7.2/
python-decorator-3.3.1/
python-docs-2.6.6/
python-enchant-1.5.3/
python-gobject-2.28.6/
python-gpgme-0.1/
python-gtksourceview-2.10.0/
python-libxml2dom-0.4.7/
python-lxml-2.2.8/
python-markupsafe-0.9.3/
python-notify-0.1.1/
python-paramiko-1.7.6/
python-paste-1.7.4/
python-pkg-resources-0.6c11/
python-psyco-1.6/
python-pybluez-0.18/
python-pycrypto-2.3/
python-pygments-1.3.1/
python-pytools-2011.3/
python-pyxml-0.8.4/
python-rhpl-0.212/
python-sexy-0.1.9/
python-simpletal-4.2/
python-sympy-0.6.7/
python-utmp-0.8/

The python-2.6.6 and 3.2.1 directories only contain a README.mdv

> or similar once you've installed the python-examples package.

On PCLos it doesn't even exist in the repo's.

Good links, thank you.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
"Elvis is my copilot."
-- Cal Keegan


From gabor.farkas at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 07:53:05 2011
From: gabor.farkas at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E1bor_Farkas?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:53:05 +0100
Subject: logging: handle everything EXCEPT certain loggers
Message-ID: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

is there a way to setup log-handlers in a way that they log logs from
every logger, exept certain ones?

basically i want the handler to handle everything, except log-records
that were generated by loggers from "something.*"
can this be done?

i tried to create filters, but the log-record does not have access to
his logger, so i cannot filter based on it's "path".

right now the only idea i have is to setup a filter for the
"something.*" path, have it mark somehow the log-records,
and then create a filter on the global level, that will drop such
log-records. is there a simpler solution?

thanks,
gabor


From andreas.perstinger at gmx.net  Mon Nov  7 08:14:05 2011
From: andreas.perstinger at gmx.net (Andreas Perstinger)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:14:05 +0100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>

On 2011-11-07 12:22, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
>>  Are you talking about this one?
>>
>>  https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
>>  .py
>
> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
>
> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6

Go to the directory where you've downloaded the file and type:

python DuquDriverPatterns.py .

What output do you get?

Bye, Andreas


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 08:30:15 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:30:15 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> <SNIP>
>> Are you talking about this one?
>>
>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
>> .py
>
> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
>
> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
>
To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are 
testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5
from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the 
file, or you got it before today.

The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see how 
you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going to detab 
it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across the page.

> <SNIP>
>> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
>>
>> and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware"
>> into the rootdir variable.
> If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and instant.
> Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But it needs to skip
> /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and /media because they are not
> part of the running system even if disks are mounted there.
>
First, run it on the current directory, and it should list the files in 
that directory:

I ran it in the directory I unzipped it into, so there are two files, 
the README and the source file itself.

$ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   .
Scanning ./README:
No match for pattern #0 on file named: README
No match for pattern #1 on file named: README
No match for pattern #2 on file named: README

etc.

The only way I can see to get NO output is to run it on an empty directory:
$mkdir junk
$ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   junk

As for skipping certain directories, we can deal with that as soon as 
you get proper behavior for any subtree of directories.

Have you tried adding a print ("Hello World " + rootdir) just before the

for root, subFolders, files in os.walk(rootdir):

line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of 
course) ?

-- 

DaveA



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov  7 08:39:17 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:39:17 +0100
Subject: logging: handle everything EXCEPT certain loggers
In-Reply-To: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7DF85.7060909@sequans.com>

G?bor Farkas wrote:
> hi,
>
> is there a way to setup log-handlers in a way that they log logs from
> every logger, exept certain ones?
>
> basically i want the handler to handle everything, except log-records
> that were generated by loggers from "something.*"
> can this be done?
>
> i tried to create filters, but the log-record does not have access to
> his logger, so i cannot filter based on it's "path".
>
> right now the only idea i have is to setup a filter for the
> "something.*" path, have it mark somehow the log-records,
> and then create a filter on the global level, that will drop such
> log-records. is there a simpler solution?
>
> thanks,
> gabor
>   

Are you sure ?
LogRecord objects have a name attribute. You could do something like

return 'IdontWantYou' not in record.name

in your filter.

JM



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From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 09:15:53 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:15:53 +0100
Subject: Python lesson please
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <j98p6j$j2j$1@dough.gmane.org>

gene heskett wrote:

> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> 
>> gene heskett wrote:
>> > Greetings experts:
>> > 
>> > I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
>> > and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
>> > least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
>> > 
>> > But it also runs instantly on linux.
>> > 
>> > This line looks suspect to me:
>> >  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>> > 
>> > And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
>> > 
>> > How can I fix that best?
>> 
>> Are you talking about this one?
>> 
>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
>> .py
>  
> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> 
> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6

Maybe the browser messes up things. Try installing git and then make a 
clone:

$ git clone git://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors

>> With a current checkout I don't get any tab-related (nor other) errors,
>> so I would prefer to run the script as-is. Also, the  README clearly
>> states that you have to invoke it with
>> 
>> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
>> 
>> and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware"
>> into the rootdir variable.
> 
> If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and
> instant.

The actual code which comprises only the last 30 lines of the script looks 
like it is written by a newbie. Try replacing the bare except: with 
something noisy along the lines of

except Exception as e:
    print e
    continue

> Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But it needs to
> skip /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and /media because they
> are not part of the running system even if disks are mounted there.

I don't think the script is meant to find malware on a running system. 
Rather you would mount a suspicious harddisk and pass the mountpoint to the 
script. Of course I'm only guessing...

>> or similar once you've installed the python-examples package.
> 
> On PCLos it doesn't even exist in the repo's.

Maybe it's in python's srpm, or in a python-dev.rpm or similar.
If all else fails you can download the source distribution from python.org 
at

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.7/




From gabor.farkas at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 09:18:35 2011
From: gabor.farkas at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E1bor_Farkas?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:18:35 +0100
Subject: logging: handle everything EXCEPT certain loggers
In-Reply-To: <4EB7DF85.7060909@sequans.com>
References: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB7DF85.7060909@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiPmQ=+C2Xn0tMx7pHf=PfvJM0xNQUh4jtBL7X7bfjWRCTqdA@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/7 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>:
> G?bor Farkas wrote:
>>
>> is there a way to setup log-handlers in a way that they log logs from
>> every logger, exept certain ones?
>>
>> i tried to create filters, but the log-record does not have access to
>> his logger, so i cannot filter based on it's "path".
>
> Are you sure ?
> LogRecord objects have a name attribute. You could do something like
>
> return 'IdontWantYou' not in record.name
>
> in your filter.

d'oh .. thanks, i somehow overlooked the name attribute. it's exactly
what i need.

thanks,
gabor


From jaroslav.dobrek at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 09:23:12 2011
From: jaroslav.dobrek at gmail.com (Jaroslav Dobrek)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:23:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: read from file with mixed encodings in Python3
Message-ID: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

in Python3, I often have this problem: I want to do something with
every line of a file. Like Python3, I presuppose that every line is
encoded in utf-8. If this isn't the case, I would like Python3 to do
something specific (like skipping the line, writing the line to
standard error, ...)

Like so:

try:
   ....
except UnicodeDecodeError:
  ...

Yet, there is no place for this construction. If I simply do:

for line in f:
    print(line)

this will result in a UnicodeDecodeError if some line is not utf-8,
but I can't tell Python3 to stop:

This will not work:

for line in f:
    try:
        print(line)
    except UnicodeDecodeError:
        ...

because the UnicodeDecodeError is caused in the "for line in f"-part.

How can I catch such exceptions?

Note that recoding the file before opening it is not an option,
because often files contain many different strings in many different
encodings.

Jaroslav


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 09:33:33 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 09:33:33 -0500
Subject: read from file with mixed encodings in Python3
In-Reply-To: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
References: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7EC3D.4070809@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 09:23 AM, Jaroslav Dobrek wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in Python3, I often have this problem: I want to do something with
> every line of a file. Like Python3, I presuppose that every line is
> encoded in utf-8. If this isn't the case, I would like Python3 to do
> something specific (like skipping the line, writing the line to
> standard error, ...)
>
> Like so:
>
> try:
>     ....
> except UnicodeDecodeError:
>    ...
>
> Yet, there is no place for this construction. If I simply do:
>
> for line in f:
>      print(line)
>
> this will result in a UnicodeDecodeError if some line is not utf-8,
> but I can't tell Python3 to stop:
>
> This will not work:
>
> for line in f:
>      try:
>          print(line)
>      except UnicodeDecodeError:
>          ...
>
> because the UnicodeDecodeError is caused in the "for line in f"-part.
>
> How can I catch such exceptions?
>
> Note that recoding the file before opening it is not an option,
> because often files contain many different strings in many different
> encodings.
>
> Jaroslav
A file with mixed encodings isn't a text file.  So open it with 'rb' 
mode, and use read() on it.  Find your own line-endings, since a given 
'\n' byte may or may not be a line-ending.

Once you've got something that looks like a line, explicitly decode it 
using utf-8.  Some invalid lines will give an exception and some will 
not.  But perhaps you've got some other gimmick to tell the encoding for 
each line.

-- 

DaveA



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 09:42:47 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:42:47 +0100
Subject: read from file with mixed encodings in Python3
References: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j98qp0$teg$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jaroslav Dobrek wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> in Python3, I often have this problem: I want to do something with
> every line of a file. Like Python3, I presuppose that every line is
> encoded in utf-8. If this isn't the case, I would like Python3 to do
> something specific (like skipping the line, writing the line to
> standard error, ...)
> 
> Like so:
> 
> try:
>    ....
> except UnicodeDecodeError:
>   ...
> 
> Yet, there is no place for this construction. If I simply do:
> 
> for line in f:
>     print(line)
> 
> this will result in a UnicodeDecodeError if some line is not utf-8,
> but I can't tell Python3 to stop:
> 
> This will not work:
> 
> for line in f:
>     try:
>         print(line)
>     except UnicodeDecodeError:
>         ...
> 
> because the UnicodeDecodeError is caused in the "for line in f"-part.
> 
> How can I catch such exceptions?
> 
> Note that recoding the file before opening it is not an option,
> because often files contain many different strings in many different
> encodings.

I don't see those files often, but I think they are all seriously broken. 
There's no way to recover the information from files with unknown mixed 
encodings. However, here's an approach that may sometimes work: 

>>> with open("tmp.txt", "rb") as f:
...     for line in f:
...             try:
...                     line = "UTF-8 " + line.decode("utf-8")
...             except UnicodeDecodeError:
...                     line = "Latin-1 " + line.decode("latin-1")
...             print(line, end="")
...
UTF-8 ???
Latin-1 ???
UTF-8 ???




From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 10:33:03 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:33:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> writes:

> Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as

I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework.  However I've
only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 11:30:16 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:30:16 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 10:38:32 AM Andreas Perstinger did opine:

> On 2011-11-07 12:22, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> >>  Are you talking about this one?
> >>  
> >>  https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatt
> >>  erns .py
> > 
> > Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> > pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> > 
> > But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
> 
> Go to the directory where you've downloaded the file and type:
> 
> python DuquDriverPatterns.py .
> 
> What output do you get?

Well now, I'll be dipped.  It scanned that directory, took it perhaps 15 
minutes, without finding anything.  So I gave it two dots & its munching 
its way through the ../Mail/inbox now.  Why the hell can't it be given a 
valid absolute path without editing it directly into the rootdir = 
statement?

This may be a usable tool, but I think that before it was committed to a 
daily cron script, we would need some history as to where to look for such 
shenanigans as its certainly not fast enough to turn it loose to scan the 
whole system on a daily basis.  This on a quad core 2.1Ghz phenom, 4 gigs 
of dram.

And I just found one of its Achilles heels, it is now stuck on a pipe file 
at /home/gene/.kde4/share/apps/kaffeine/dvbpipe:
prw------- 1 gene gene      0 Sep 24 18:50 dvbpipe.m2t|

And using no cpu.

I was going to ctl+c it but this is where, after several such, that it took 
the machine down yesterday. But it appears as only one process to htop (I 
keep a copy of it running as root here) and that killed it clean, no crash.

So, it needs an exception (or likely several) of file types to stay away 
from, starting with pipes like the above.  But I am not the one to carve 
that code as I have NDI how to go about writing a check stanza for that 
condition in python.

Perhaps winderz does not have 'pipe' files so the authors never got caught 
out on this?  The only windows experience I have is the copy of xp that was 
on the lappy I bought back in 2005 or so to take with me when I am on the 
road (I am a broadcast engineer who gets sent here and there to "put out 
the fires" when the station is off the air.  Despite being retired for 9 
years now at 77 yo, my phone still rings occasionally)
I went straight from amigados-3.2 to redhat-5.0 in the late '90's, 
bypassing windows completely. I built the redhat machine from scratch.
The lappy's xp, used only for warranty testing, got overwritten by mandriva 
2008 when the warranty had expired.

You could call me anti-M$ I think.  :)

> Bye, Andreas

Thanks for listening, Andreas.

Now I wonder how to get a message back to the authors that its broken in at 
least two aspects...

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 11:40:12 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:40:12 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>
Message-ID: <201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 11:30:45 AM Dave Angel did opine:
Back on the list..
> On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> > <SNIP>
> > 
> >> Are you talking about this one?
> >> 
> >> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatte
> >> rns .py
> > 
> > Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> > pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> > 
> > But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
> 
> To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are
> testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5

[root at coyote Download]# md5sum DuquDriverPatterns.py
c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5  DuquDriverPatterns.py, same as yours.

> from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the
> file, or you got it before today.
> 
> The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see how
> you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going to detab
> it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across the page.

Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high as 33 
leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab indented 2 
additional tabs from the one above it in the original file.  30k was 
perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely reasonable guess.
 
> > <SNIP>
> > 
> >> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
> >> 
> >> and the line you are quoting then puts the value
> >> "./directoryOfMalware" into the rootdir variable.
> > 
> > If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and
> > instant. Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But
> > it needs to skip /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and
> > /media because they are not part of the running system even if disks
> > are mounted there.
> 
> First, run it on the current directory, and it should list the files in
> that directory:
> 
> I ran it in the directory I unzipped it into, so there are two files,
> the README and the source file itself.
> 
> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   .
> Scanning ./README:
> No match for pattern #0 on file named: README
> No match for pattern #1 on file named: README
> No match for pattern #2 on file named: README
> 
> etc.
> 
> The only way I can see to get NO output is to run it on an empty
> directory: $mkdir junk
> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   junk
> 
> As for skipping certain directories, we can deal with that as soon as
> you get proper behavior for any subtree of directories.
> 
> Have you tried adding a print ("Hello World " + rootdir) just before the
> 
> for root, subFolders, files in os.walk(rootdir):
> 
> line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of
> course) ?

No, I did try to print the value of rootdir though, indented the same, and 
got a null printout, not even a line feed.

Thanks Dave.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
The older I grow, the less important the comma becomes.  Let the reader
catch his own breath.
		-- Elizabeth Clarkson Zwart


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Mon Nov  7 11:54:52 2011
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:54:52 -0500
Subject: RSS feed creation?
In-Reply-To: <j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1320684893.8941.9.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 08:22 +0100, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Dan Stromberg, 06.11.2011 21:00:
> > Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
> > require large dependencies?
> > I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
> > automated test gives a traceback.
> > Is there a better starting point?
> > (I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
> > for either)
> I'd just go with ElementTree and builder.py.
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-builder.htm

+1
<http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html>

RSS is just XML, just use the XML toolchain.

And use <http://validator.w3.org/feed/#validate_by_input> to check what
you create.



From awilliam at whitemice.org  Mon Nov  7 11:57:10 2011
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:57:10 -0500
Subject: xml-rpc server on wine
In-Reply-To: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1320685031.8941.11.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 05:50 -0700, pacopyc wrote:
> Hi, I have a XML-RPC server python running on VM Windows (on Linux)
> and a XML-RPC client python on Linux. Server and client have different
> IP address. I'd like migrate server on wine. How can communicate
> server and client? IP address is different or is the same?
> Can you help me?

Not really, this doesn't have much of anything to do with Python.  If
you run a network application on wine [assuming that even works] the
application will have the same IP/interface as any other application or
service running on the host.  Wine is not a 'virtualization' solution.




From josephmeiring at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 12:12:13 2011
From: josephmeiring at gmail.com (JoeM)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:12:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
Message-ID: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>

Howdy,

If I have a few lists like

a=[1,2,3,4,5]
b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]

what is the most pythonic method of removing the first element from
all of the lists?

A list comprehension such as [arr[1:] for arr in a,b,c]
gives a single 2d list, which is not what I'm shooting for. Any
suggestions?






From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 12:37:27 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:37:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9950n$n7u$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939 at a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> JoeM <josephmeiring at gmail.com> writes:

> a=[1,2,3,4,5]
> b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
> c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]

> what is the most pythonic method of removing the first element from
> all of the lists?

for arr in [a,b,c]:
  arr.pop(0)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 12:44:15 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:44:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j98tnf$qh0$1 at reader1.panix.com> John Gordon <gordon at panix.com> writes:

> In <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> writes:

> > Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> > to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> > good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as

> I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework.  However I've
> only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.

You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)

The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.

I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data.  (But I'd be surprised
if it had poor performance.)

The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
given URL with a given method call.

Community support is excellent.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From moky.math at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 12:44:59 2011
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:44:59 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>

Le 07/11/2011 18:12, JoeM a ?crit :
> Howdy,
>
> If I have a few lists like
>
> a=[1,2,3,4,5]
> b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
> c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]
>
> what is the most pythonic method of removing the first element from
> all of the lists?

Do you want to remove the first item of each list, or to create new 
lists that contain the same as a,b,c but with one element less ?

Something like what you wrote :
[arr[1:] for arr in a,b,c]
will create *new* lists.


Assuming you don't want new lists, I would do :

a=[1,2,3,4,5]
b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]

for x in [a,b,c]:
     x.remove(x[0])

print a
print b
print c

I think that writing
 >>> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
instead of the for loop is cheating ... but it also does the job.

Have a good after noon
Laurent











From josephmeiring at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 13:01:42 2011
From: josephmeiring at gmail.com (JoeM)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
Message-ID: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
for loop if possible. Why do you consider

[x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]

cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.



Cheers


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 13:14:50 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:14:50 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>
	<201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB8201A.6080401@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, November 07, 2011 11:30:45 AM Dave Angel did opine:
> Back on the list..
>> On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>>> Are you talking about this one?
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatte
>>>> rns .py
>>>
>>> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
>>> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
>>>
>>> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
>>
>> To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are
>> testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5
>
> [root at coyote Download]# md5sum DuquDriverPatterns.py
> c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5  DuquDriverPatterns.py, same as yours.
>
>> from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the
>> file, or you got it before today.
>>
>> The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see how
>> you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going to detab
>> it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across the page.
>
> Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high as 33
> leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab indented 2
> additional tabs from the one above it in the original file.  30k was
> perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely reasonable guess.
>
What program are you using to read the file and support that claim? 
Neither emacs nor gedit shows more than one leading tab on any line I 
looked.  And if you set tabs to 4 columns, the file looks quite 
reasonable.  Doing a quick scan I see max of 5 tabs on any single line, 
and 1006 total.


maxtabs = 0
totaltabs = 0
f = open("DuquDriverPatterns.py", "r")
for line in f:

     cline = line.replace("\t", "")
     tabs = len(line) - len(cline)
     if tabs:
         print tabs
         maxtabs = max(maxtabs, tabs)
         totaltabs += tabs

print "max=", maxtabs
print "total=", totaltabs




>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>>> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
>>>>
>>>> and the line you are quoting then puts the value
>>>> "./directoryOfMalware" into the rootdir variable.
>>>
>>> If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and
>>> instant.

The only way I've been able to make it "silent and instant" was to give 
it the name of an empty directory, or a typo representing no directory 
at all.


>>> Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But
>>> it needs to skip /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and
>>> /media because they are not part of the running system even if disks
>>> are mounted there.
>>
>> First, run it on the current directory, and it should list the files in
>> that directory:
>>
>> I ran it in the directory I unzipped it into, so there are two files,
>> the README and the source file itself.
>>
>> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   .
>> Scanning ./README:
>> No match for pattern #0 on file named: README
>> No match for pattern #1 on file named: README
>> No match for pattern #2 on file named: README
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> The only way I can see to get NO output is to run it on an empty
>> directory: $mkdir junk
>> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   junk
>>
>> As for skipping certain directories, we can deal with that as soon as
>> you get proper behavior for any subtree of directories.
>>
>> Have you tried adding a print ("Hello World " + rootdir) just before the
>>
>> for root, subFolders, files in os.walk(rootdir):
>>
>> line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of
>> course) ?
>
> No, I did try to print the value of rootdir though, indented the same, and
> got a null printout, not even a line feed.
>

If you had put the print I suggested, it would at least print the words 
"Hello World".  Since it did not, you probably didn't actually add the 
line where I suggested.

> Thanks Dave.
>
> Cheers, Gene

In another message you said it doesn't work on absolute file paths.  But 
it does.  You can replace any relative directory name with the absolute 
version, and it won't change the behavior.  I suspect you were caught up 
by a typo for the absolute path string.


-- 

DaveA


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 13:22:00 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 18:22:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j997k8$rib$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3 at o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com> JoeM <josephmeiring at gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider

> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]

> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

I wouldn't call it cheating, but that solution does a fair bit of
unneccessary work (creating a list comprehension that is never used.)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 13:33:01 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:33:01 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9988m$cfr$1@dough.gmane.org>

JoeM wrote:

> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
> 
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
> 
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

I think it's a misconception that you are avoiding the for-loop. You move it 
into [...] and declare it more elegant, but in reality you are creating a 
throwaway list of None-s. You are adding cruft to your code. 

That is not only superfluous, but also misleading. A simple for-loop like

for x in a, b, c:
    del x[0]

on the other hand makes your intention crystal-clear.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov  7 13:51:31 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:51:31 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>

JoeM wrote:
> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>   
This is a one liner, but since you asked something *pythonic*, John's 
solution is the best imo:

for arr in [a,b,c]:
  arr.pop(0)

(Peter's "del" solution is quite close, but I find the 'del' statement 
tricky in python and will mislead many python newcomers)

JM


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Mon Nov  7 14:43:05 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:43:05 -0700
Subject: memory management
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

Hi,

Can anyone provide links or basic info on memory management, variable dereferencing, or the like? I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).  This makes it difficult to figure out if the allocated memory or heap space for the DOS/shell session have overflown, or why it is crashing.

Juan Declet-Barreto [cid:image001.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]
GIS Specialist, Information Technology Dept.
City of Mesa
Office: 480.644.4751
juan.declet-barreto at mesaaz.gov<mailto:juan.declet-barreto at mesaaz.gov>

[cid:image002.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]

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From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 15:00:49 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:00:49 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB8201A.6080401@davea.name>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<4EB8201A.6080401@davea.name>
Message-ID: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 02:43:11 PM Dave Angel did opine:

> On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, November 07, 2011 11:30:45 AM Dave Angel did opine:
> > Back on the list..
> > 
> >> On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >>> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> >>> <SNIP>
> >>> 
> >>>> Are you talking about this one?
> >>>> 
> >>>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPat
> >>>> te rns .py
> >>> 
> >>> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But
> >>> I pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> >>> 
> >>> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
> >> 
> >> To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are
> >> testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5
> > 
> > [root at coyote Download]# md5sum DuquDriverPatterns.py
> > c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5  DuquDriverPatterns.py, same as
> > yours.
> > 
> >> from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the
> >> file, or you got it before today.
> >> 
> >> The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see
> >> how you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going
> >> to detab it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across
> >> the page.
> > 
> > Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high
> > as 33 leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab
> > indented 2 additional tabs from the one above it in the original
> > file.  30k was perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely
> > reasonable guess.
> 
> What program are you using to read the file and support that claim?

vim.  But remember, this first one started out as a copy/paste from the 
firefox-7.0.1 screen.

> Neither emacs nor gedit shows more than one leading tab on any line I
> looked.  And if you set tabs to 4 columns, the file looks quite
> reasonable.  Doing a quick scan I see max of 5 tabs on any single line,
> and 1006 total.

I have no tabs left in the operative code, the python interpreter was 
having a cow if even one was in that last 30-35 lines of code.
> 
> 
> maxtabs = 0
> totaltabs = 0
> f = open("DuquDriverPatterns.py", "r")
> for line in f:
> 
>      cline = line.replace("\t", "")
>      tabs = len(line) - len(cline)
>      if tabs:
>          print tabs
>          maxtabs = max(maxtabs, tabs)
>          totaltabs += tabs
> 
> print "max=", maxtabs
> print "total=", totaltabs
> 
> >>> <SNIP>
> The only way I've been able to make it "silent and instant" was to give
> it the name of an empty directory, or a typo representing no directory
> at all.
> 
[...]
> >> line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of
> >> course) ?
> > 
> > No, I did try to print the value of rootdir though, indented the same,
> > and got a null printout, not even a line feed.

Indented the same as the rootdir statement itself, which in python would 
seem to make it immediately sequential to the roodir = statement.
 
> If you had put the print I suggested, it would at least print the words
> "Hello World".  Since it did not, you probably didn't actually add the
> line where I suggested.
> 
> > Thanks Dave.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> In another message you said it doesn't work on absolute file paths.  But
> it does.  You can replace any relative directory name with the absolute
> version, and it won't change the behavior.  I suspect you were caught up
> by a typo for the absolute path string.

I am gene, running as gene, what could be wrong with giving it /home/gene 
as the argument?

I have another dir in /home/amanda, that I build the alpha and beta amanda 
stuff in.  Let me try that.  And again, this works but I forgot about the 
.ccache directory, so it will take a while to finish.

Now, as a python lesson to me, I will do a blink compare between the 2 
files this evening & see what I munged.  ATM, I am working on a gunstock 
for as long as my feet and back can stand the standing, so sitting here is 
a 'break' from that.  Yeah, I occasionally call myself a JOAT. ;-)

Thanks Dave.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake
when you make it again.
		-- Franklin P. Jones


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 15:06:25 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:06:25 -0500
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB83A41.9050802@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 01:01 PM, JoeM wrote:
> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.
>
>
>
> Cheers
Are you considering the possibility that two of these names might 
reference the same list?

a = [42, 44, 6, 19, 48]
b = a
c = b


for x in [a,b,c]:
     x.remove(x[0])

now a will have  [19,48] as its content.



-- 

DaveA



From davea at dejaviewphoto.com  Mon Nov  7 15:19:53 2011
From: davea at dejaviewphoto.com (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:19:53 -0500
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>


On 11/07/2011 02:43 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone provide links or basic info on memory management, variable dereferencing, or the like? I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).  This makes it difficult to figure out if the allocated memory or heap space for the DOS/shell session have overflown, or why it is crashing.
>
> Juan Declet-Barreto [ciId:image001.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]
I don't have any reference to point you to, but CPython's memory 
management is really pretty simple.  However, it's important to tell us 
the build of Python, as there are several, with very different memory 
rules.  For example Jython, which is Python running in a Java VM, lets 
the java garbage collector handle things, and it's entirely different.

Likewise, the OS may be relevant.  You're using Windows-kind of 
terminology, but that doesn't prove you're on Windows, nor does it say 
what version.

Assuming 32 bit CPython 2.7 on XP, the principles are simple.  When an 
object is no longer accessible, it gets garbage collected*.   So if you 
build a list inside a function, and the only reference is from a 
function's local var, then the whole list will be freed when the 
function exits.  The mistakes many people make are unnecessarily using 
globals, and using lists when iterables would work just as well.

The tool on XP to tell how much memory is in use is the task manager.  
As you point out, its hard to catch a short-running app in the act.  So 
you want to add a counter to your code (global), and see how high it 
gets when it crashes.  Then put a test in your code for the timer value, 
and do an "input" somewhat earlier.

At that point, see how much memory the program is actually using.

Now, when an object is freed, a new one of the same size is likely to 
immediately re-use the space.  But if they're all different sizes, it's 
somewhat statistical.  You might get fragmentation, for example.  When 
Python's pool is full, it asks the OS for more (perhaps using swap 
space), but I don't think it ever gives it back.  So your memory use is 
a kind of ceiling case.  That's why it's problematic to build a huge 
data structure, and then walk through it, then delete it.  The script 
will probably continue to show the peak memory use, indefinitely.

* (technically, this is ref counted.  When the ref reaches zero the 
object is freed.  Real gc is more lazy scanning)




From jfine at pytex.org  Mon Nov  7 15:21:49 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:21:49 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
	<m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 20:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:

> Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
> corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
> The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
> (i.e. during install).

Thank you for your interest, Jakub, and also for this information.  With 
TeX there's a difficult which Perl, I think, does not have.  With TeX we 
process documents, which may demand specific versions of packages. 
LaTeX users are concerned that move on to a later version will cause 
documents to break.

> Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
> repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
> software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
> kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

I'm impressed by how well git manages it.  It took about 15 minutes to 
build the 4GB tree, and it was disk speed rather than CPU which was the 
bottleneck.

>> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
>> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
>> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
>> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
>> machine".
>
> This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
> consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
> submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
> whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)
>
> This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.

We may be at cross purposes.  My first task is get the DVD tree into 
git, performing necessary transformations such as expanding zip files 
along the way.  Breaking the content into submodules can, I believe, be 
done afterwards.

With DVDs from several years it could take several hours to load 
everything into git.  For myself, I'd like to do that once, more or less 
as a batch process, and then move on to the more interesting topics. 
Getting the DVD contents into git is already a significant piece of work.

Once done, I can them move on to what you're interested in, which is 
organising the material.  And I hope that others in the TeX community 
will get involved with that, because I'm not building this repository 
just for myself.

> But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
> forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
> have best user interface.
>
>> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
>> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
>> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.
>
> ???

A quick way to bring your TeX distribution up to date is to do a delta 
with a later distribution, and download the difference.  That's what git 
does, and it does it well.  So I'm keen to convert a TeX DVD into a git 
repository, and then differences can be downloaded.

>> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
>> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
>> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.
>
> No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
> _clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.
>
> Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
> different.

 From what I know, I'm confident that I can achieve what I want using 
git.  I'm also confident that my approach is not closing off any 
possible approached.  But if I'm wrong you'll be able to say: I told you so.

> Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

Actually, any number of parents, including none.  What metadata do I 
have to provide?  At this time nothing, I think, beyond that provided by 
the name of a reference (to the root of a tree).

> I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
> ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
>
>> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
>> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
>> no commit.
>
> That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
> tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

Because git is a distributed version control system, anyone who wants to 
can create such a directed acyclic graph of commits.  And if it's useful 
I'll gladly add it to my copy of the repository.

best regards


Jonathan



From jfine at pytex.org  Mon Nov  7 15:21:49 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:21:49 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
	<m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 20:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:

> Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
> corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
> The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
> (i.e. during install).

Thank you for your interest, Jakub, and also for this information.  With 
TeX there's a difficult which Perl, I think, does not have.  With TeX we 
process documents, which may demand specific versions of packages. 
LaTeX users are concerned that move on to a later version will cause 
documents to break.

> Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
> repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
> software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
> kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

I'm impressed by how well git manages it.  It took about 15 minutes to 
build the 4GB tree, and it was disk speed rather than CPU which was the 
bottleneck.

>> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
>> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
>> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
>> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
>> machine".
>
> This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
> consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
> submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
> whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)
>
> This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.

We may be at cross purposes.  My first task is get the DVD tree into 
git, performing necessary transformations such as expanding zip files 
along the way.  Breaking the content into submodules can, I believe, be 
done afterwards.

With DVDs from several years it could take several hours to load 
everything into git.  For myself, I'd like to do that once, more or less 
as a batch process, and then move on to the more interesting topics. 
Getting the DVD contents into git is already a significant piece of work.

Once done, I can them move on to what you're interested in, which is 
organising the material.  And I hope that others in the TeX community 
will get involved with that, because I'm not building this repository 
just for myself.

> But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
> forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
> have best user interface.
>
>> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
>> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
>> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.
>
> ???

A quick way to bring your TeX distribution up to date is to do a delta 
with a later distribution, and download the difference.  That's what git 
does, and it does it well.  So I'm keen to convert a TeX DVD into a git 
repository, and then differences can be downloaded.

>> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
>> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
>> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.
>
> No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
> _clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.
>
> Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
> different.

 From what I know, I'm confident that I can achieve what I want using 
git.  I'm also confident that my approach is not closing off any 
possible approached.  But if I'm wrong you'll be able to say: I told you so.

> Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

Actually, any number of parents, including none.  What metadata do I 
have to provide?  At this time nothing, I think, beyond that provided by 
the name of a reference (to the root of a tree).

> I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
> ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
>
>> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
>> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
>> no commit.
>
> That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
> tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

Because git is a distributed version control system, anyone who wants to 
can create such a directed acyclic graph of commits.  And if it's useful 
I'll gladly add it to my copy of the repository.

best regards


Jonathan



From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Mon Nov  7 15:33:09 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:33:09 -0700
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at dejaviewphoto.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:20 PM
To: Juan Declet-Barreto
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: memory management


On 11/07/2011 02:43 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone provide links or basic info on memory management, variable dereferencing, or the like? I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).  This makes it difficult to figure out if the allocated memory or heap space for the DOS/shell session have overflown, or why it is crashing.
>
> Juan Declet-Barreto [ciId:image001.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]
I don't have any reference to point you to, but CPython's memory management is really pretty simple.  However, it's important to tell us the build of Python, as there are several, with very different memory rules.  For example Jython, which is Python running in a Java VM, lets the java garbage collector handle things, and it's entirely different.

Likewise, the OS may be relevant.  You're using Windows-kind of terminology, but that doesn't prove you're on Windows, nor does it say what version.

Assuming 32 bit CPython 2.7 on XP, the principles are simple.  When an 
object is no longer accessible, it gets garbage collected*.   So if you 
build a list inside a function, and the only reference is from a function's local var, then the whole list will be freed when the function exits.  The mistakes many people make are unnecessarily using globals, and using lists when iterables would work just as well.

The tool on XP to tell how much memory is in use is the task manager.  
As you point out, its hard to catch a short-running app in the act.  So you want to add a counter to your code (global), and see how high it gets when it crashes.  Then put a test in your code for the timer value, and do an "input" somewhat earlier.

At that point, see how much memory the program is actually using.

Now, when an object is freed, a new one of the same size is likely to immediately re-use the space.  But if they're all different sizes, it's somewhat statistical.  You might get fragmentation, for example.  When Python's pool is full, it asks the OS for more (perhaps using swap space), but I don't think it ever gives it back.  So your memory use is a kind of ceiling case.  That's why it's problematic to build a huge data structure, and then walk through it, then delete it.  The script will probably continue to show the peak memory use, indefinitely.

* (technically, this is ref counted.  When the ref reaches zero the object is freed.  Real gc is more lazy scanning)




From stefan-usenet at bytereef.org  Mon Nov  7 15:47:16 2011
From: stefan-usenet at bytereef.org (Stefan Krah)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:47:16 +0100
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <20111107204716.GA14201@sleipnir.bytereef.org>

Juan Declet-Barreto <Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov> wrote:
> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which
> ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the
> arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information
> systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently
> isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the
> arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment
> crash is occurring.

It might be a good idea to check if the problem also occurs with Python 2.7
since Python 2.5 is no longer maintained.


Stefan Krah




From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 15:50:19 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:50:19 -0500
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <4EB8448B.7030709@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
You top-posted.  In this mailing list, one should type new information 
after the quoted information, not before.

Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order.  On the assumption that it may 
be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out.  Instead of 
walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then 
working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get 
it.  Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call 
your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory 
at the same time.


Generator:

def  filelist(top, criteria):
       for  a, b, c in os.walk():
              for fiile in files:
                    apply some criteria
                    yield file


Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way

for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
        dosomething...



-- 

DaveA



From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Mon Nov  7 16:00:53 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:00:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: all() is slow?
Message-ID: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>

    	I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):

>>> import random, timeit
>>> def myAll(x):
...     for a in x:
...         if a not in (True, False):
...             return False
...     return True
>>> x = [random.choice([True, False]) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x', 
number=10)
0: 9.7685158309226452
>>> timeit.timeit('all(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__ 
import x', number=10)
1: 12.348196768024984
>>> x = [random.randint(0,100) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
>>> def myAll(x):
...     for a in x:
...         if not a <= 100:
...             return False
...     return True
>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x', 
number=10)
4: 2.8248207523582209
>>> timeit.timeit('all(a <= 100 for a in x)', 'gc.enable(); from 
__main__ import x', number=10)
5: 4.6433557896324942

    	What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's 
slower than writing a function to do the check myself?

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Nov  7 16:34:08 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
In-Reply-To: <4EB3E93E.50500@sequans.com>
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
	<4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4EB3E93E.50500@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <0604E20B5F6F2F4784C9C8C71C5DD4DD2FDF6DD8E0@EMARC112VS01.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>Maybe Lbrtchx is one of the Sheldon Cooper's nicknames :o)
>
>JM
>
>PS : I have the feeling that my nerdy reference will fall flat...

Not completely ;)

Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Nov  7 16:39:57 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:39:57 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQCHuh3e-PukF-KLciD=w82KGFCPxYg8NdPnJ-XEv0weQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:00 PM, OKB (not okblacke)
<brenNOSPAMbarn at nobrenspambarn.net> wrote:
<snip>
> ? ? ? ?What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's
> slower than writing a function to do the check myself?

Regardless of whether it's slower (which I expect someone will be
along to debunk or explain shortly), do you really want to have to
write an additional boilerplate function or block of code /every
single time/ you want to do such a check? The runtime speed difference
is unlikely to be worth your time as a developer in many cases. And by
Murphy's Law, you *will* make errors writing these repetitive code
blocks (e.g. forget to negate the conditional), whereas reusing all()
makes that much less likely.

The trade-off is run-time speed for developer
productivity/convenience; Python tends to lean towards the latter (to
varying degrees).

Cheers,
Chris


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:40:56 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 08:40:56 +1100
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqJj6dCxKGiB6c447_TeVk_hsGAGLRaj=hOTpUcV_+KnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Juan Declet-Barreto
<Juan.Declet-Barreto at mesaaz.gov> wrote:
>
> I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).

This seems a little unusual - it crashes more than its own process? If
you use Start... Run and type in "cmd" (or use the "Command Prompt"
icon, whereever that is), and invoke Python from there, it crashes cmd
as well as Python? If so, I'd be suspecting either some really weird
bug in the Python interpreter (try upgrading to 2.7), or a hardware
fault in your computer (try running MemTest or running it on a
different computer).

ChrisA


From codewarrior0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:46:25 2011
From: codewarrior0 at gmail.com (david vierra)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:46:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 7, 11:00?am, "OKB (not okblacke)"
<brenNOSPAMb... at NObrenSPAMbarn.net> wrote:

> ? ? ? ? What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's
> slower than writing a function to do the check myself?
>

But, you didn't write an all() function.  You wrote a more specialized
allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
builtin all():

>>> def myAll(x):
...     for a in x:
...         if not a: return False
...     return True
...
>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x', number=10)
14.510986388627998
>>> timeit.timeit('all(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__ import x', number=10)
12.209779342432576


From jnareb at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:50:23 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:50:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org> <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m3ipmv38o2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to comp.text.tex as well.

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:
> On 06/11/11 20:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> 
> > Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
> > corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
> > The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
> > (i.e. during install).
> 
> Thank you for your interest, Jakub, and also for this information.
> With TeX there's a difficult which Perl, I think, does not have.  With
> TeX we process documents, which may demand specific versions of
> packages. LaTeX users are concerned that move on to a later version
> will cause documents to break.

How you can demand specific version of package?

In the "\usepackage[options]{packages}[version]" LaTeX command the
<version> argument specifies _minimal_ (oldest) version.  The same
is true for Perl "use Module VERSION LIST".
 
Nevertheless while with "use Module VERSION" / "use Module VERSION LIST"
you can request minimal version of Perl Module, the META build-time spec 
can include requirement of exact version of required package:

http://p3rl.org/CPAN::Meta::Spec

  Version Ranges
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Some fields (prereq, optional_features) indicate the particular
  version(s) of some other module that may be required as a
  prerequisite. This section details the Version Range type used to
  provide this information.

  The simplest format for a Version Range is just the version number
  itself, e.g. 2.4. This means that *at least* version 2.4 must be
  present. To indicate that *any* version of a prerequisite is okay,
  even if the prerequisite doesn't define a version at all, use the
  version 0.

  Alternatively, a version range *may* use the operators < (less than),
  <= (less than or equal), > (greater than), >= (greater than or
  equal), == (equal), and != (not equal). For example, the
  specification < 2.0 means that any version of the prerequisite less
  than 2.0 is suitable.

  For more complicated situations, version specifications *may* be
  AND-ed together using commas. The specification >= 1.2, != 1.5, <
  2.0 indicates a version that must be *at least* 1.2, *less than* 2.0,
  and *not equal to* 1.5.

> > Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
> > repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
> > software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
> > kernel), not 4GB+ trees.
> 
> I'm impressed by how well git manages it.  It took about 15 minutes to
> build the 4GB tree, and it was disk speed rather than CPU which was
> the bottleneck.

I still think that using modified contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py
(or import-tars.perl, or import-directories.perl) would be a better
solution here...
 
[...]
> We may be at cross purposes.  My first task is get the DVD tree into
> git, performing necessary transformations such as expanding zip files
> along the way.  Breaking the content into submodules can, I believe,
> be done afterwards.

'reposurgeon' might help there... or might not.  Same with git-subtree
tool.

But now I understand that you are just building tree objects, and
creating references to them (with implicit ordering given by names,
I guess).  This is to be a start of further work, isn't it?

> With DVDs from several years it could take several hours to load
> everything into git.  For myself, I'd like to do that once, more or
> less as a batch process, and then move on to the more interesting
> topics. Getting the DVD contents into git is already a significant
> piece of work.
> 
> Once done, I can them move on to what you're interested in, which is
> organising the material.  And I hope that others in the TeX community
> will get involved with that, because I'm not building this repository
> just for myself.

[...]

> > > In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
> > > git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
> > > to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.
> >
> > ???
> 
> A quick way to bring your TeX distribution up to date is to do a delta
> with a later distribution, and download the difference.  That's what
> git does, and it does it well.  So I'm keen to convert a TeX DVD into
> a git repository, and then differences can be downloaded.

Here perhaps you should take a look at git-based 'bup' backup system.

Anyway I am not sure if for git to be able to generate deltas well you
have to have DAG of commits, so Git can notice what you have and what
you have not.  Trees might be not enough here. (!)
 
> > Commit = tree + parent + metadata.
> 
> Actually, any number of parents, including none.  What metadata do I
> have to provide?  At this time nothing, I think, beyond that provided
> by the name of a reference (to the root of a tree).

Metadata = commit message (here you can e.g. put the official name of
DVD), author and committer info (name, email, date and time, timezone;
date and time you can get from mtime / creation time of DVD). 

[cut]
 
-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


From jfine at pytex.org  Mon Nov  7 17:03:09 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:03:09 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <m3ipmv38o2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
	<m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>	<4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>
	<m3ipmv38o2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EB8559D.8080704@pytex.org>

On 07/11/11 21:49, Jakub Narebski wrote:

[snip]

> But now I understand that you are just building tree objects, and
> creating references to them (with implicit ordering given by names,
> I guess).  This is to be a start of further work, isn't it?

Yes, that's exactly the point, and my apologies if I was not clear enough.

I'll post again when I've finished the script and performed placed 
several years of DVD into git.  Then the discussion will be more 
concrete - we have this tree, how do we make it more useful.

Thank you for your contributions, particularly telling me about gitpan.

-- 
Jonathan


From garyfallidis at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:06:40 2011
From: garyfallidis at gmail.com (Eleftherios Garyfallidis)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:06:40 +0100
Subject: ctypes accessing functions with double pointers
Message-ID: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Is it possible using ctypes to call C functions from a shared object
containing double pointers e.g. int foo(float **i) and if yes how?

Best wishes,
Eleftherios
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:06:56 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:06:56 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:46 AM, david vierra <codewarrior0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> But, you didn't write an all() function. ?You wrote a more specialized
> allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
> builtin all():

So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:

def my_all(code,lst):
    exec("""def tmp_all(x):
        for a in x:
            if not ("""+code+"""): return False
        return True
""")
    return tmp_all(lst)
timeit.timeit('my_all("a in (True, False)",x)','from __main__ import
my_all,x',number=10)

Bad code imho, but it _is_ faster than both the original and the builtin.

ChrisA


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Nov  7 17:29:46 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:29:46 -0800
Subject: ctypes accessing functions with double pointers
In-Reply-To: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRmHBVq4SSV4nMJhTpyw7SXteSgoRpMPxqLRG-BfmJ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Eleftherios Garyfallidis
<garyfallidis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is it possible using ctypes to call C functions from a shared object
> containing double pointers e.g. int foo(float **i) and if yes how?

(Untested conjecture:)

import ctypes
# ...create ctypes_wrapped_foo...
the_float = ctypes.c_float(42.1)
float_ptr = ctypes.byref(the_float)
i = ctypes.byref(float_ptr)
result_integer = ctypes_wrapped_foo(i)

Cheers,
Chris


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:51:21 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:51:21 +0000
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWVOL1BTAPCUg-fCKLr-TyCOE=8f8z=sHvR2Q7zfeJXPg@mail.gmail.com>

See these all vs myAll tests:

%~> python all_test
0.5427970886230469
1.1579840183258057

3.3052260875701904
3.4992029666900635

3.303942918777466
1.7343430519104004

3.18320894241333
1.6191949844360352

In the first pair and the second pair, the pairs receive the same input.
The builtin all outperforms the user-defined.
In the second pair, the builtin receives a generator whereas the function
just runs. A generator has to be called once every iteration, and this
significantly slows it.

The main use of "all" is ease, though, as mentioned before.
The second is speed when testing lists/generators that don't need to be
wrapped.

Note:
%~> pypy all_test
0.0657250881195
0.0579369068146

0.751952171326
0.657609939575

0.748466968536
0.0586581230164

0.801791906357
0.0550608634949

If speed is your concern, there are simple solutions.
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:06:53 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:06:53 -0500
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <j997k8$rib$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<j997k8$rib$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j99rqv$qap$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 1:22 PM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3 at o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>  JoeM<josephmeiring at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
>> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
>> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
>> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

It looks like incomplete code with 'somelists = ' or other context 
omitted. It saves no keypresses '[',...,SPACE,...,']' versus 
...,':',ENTER,TAB,... . (TAB with a decent Python aware editor.)

> I wouldn't call it cheating, but that solution does a fair bit of
> unneccessary work (creating a list comprehension that is never used.)

The comprehension ( the code) is used, but the result is not. If the 
source iterator has a large number of items rather than 3, the throwaway 
list could become an issue. Example.

fin = open('source.txt')
fout= open('dest.txt, 'w')
for line in fin:
   fout.write(line.strip())
# versus
[fout.write(line.strip()) for line in fin]

If source.txt has 100 millions lines, the 'clever' code looks less 
clever ;=). Comprehensions are intended for creating collections (that 
one actually wants) and for normal Python coding are best used for that.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:17:09 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:17:09 -0500
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <20111107204716.GA14201@sleipnir.bytereef.org>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<20111107204716.GA14201@sleipnir.bytereef.org>
Message-ID: <j99se7$tss$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 3:47 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> Juan Declet-Barreto<Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov>  wrote:
>> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which
>> ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the
>> arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information
>> systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently
>> isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the
>> arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment
>> crash is occurring.

What *exactly* do you mean by "crash"?

> It might be a good idea to check if the problem also occurs with Python 2.7
> since Python 2.5 is no longer maintained.

And 2.7 has hundreds of more recent bug fixes. Just one could make a 
difference.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:23:50 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:23:50 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>
	<201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <j99sqn$tss$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 11:30 AM, gene heskett wrote:

> Perhaps winderz does not have 'pipe' files so the authors never got caught
> out on this?

Last I know, Windows not only had no pipe files but also no real 
in-memory pipes. Maybe one or both of those has changed.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 19:36:46 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:36:46 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <j99sqn$tss$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<j99sqn$tss$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <201111071936.46138.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 07:34:05 PM Terry Reedy did opine:

> On 11/7/2011 11:30 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Perhaps winderz does not have 'pipe' files so the authors never got
> > caught out on this?
> 
> Last I know, Windows not only had no pipe files but also no real
> in-memory pipes. Maybe one or both of those has changed.

Sheesh..  How the heck do you get anything done on winderz then. :(

Answer not needed as they regularly reinvent the wheel because everything 
has to be self contained, poorly IMO.  Most of their wheels ride a bit 
rough. ;)

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
I believe that professional wrestling is clean and everything else in
the world is fixed.
		-- Frank Deford, sports writer


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 21:21:52 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 18:21:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 7, 12:44?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <j98tnf$qh... at reader1.panix.com> John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> writes:
>
> > In <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b450... at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> writes:
> > > Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> > > to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> > > good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
> > I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework. ?However I've
> > only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.
>
> You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)
>
> The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
> native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.
>
> I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
> project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data. ?(But I'd be surprised
> if it had poor performance.)
>
> The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
> given URL with a given method call.
>
> Community support is excellent.
>
> --
> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

I started the battle today. The "new guy" was trying to sell me on
CodeIgnitor. I haven't looked at it, but it is PHP, so I really want
to avoid it. The good thing is that all of his "friends" have been
telling him to get into Python. I have been trying to convince him
that PHP isn't cut out for background services and is mostly a front-
end language. Python is much more geared towards hardcore data
processing. Why write the system in two languages?

I have been spending a lot of time looking at the Pyramid project: the
next generation of the Pylons project. It looks powerful, but it seems
to be a lot more complex than Django.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 23:17:14 2011
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:17:14 +1100
Subject: How to mix-in __getattr__ after the fact?
In-Reply-To: <8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4630c4d0-86bc-4295-8bbb-6f58415191c8@v15g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAAF264.1050307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2298.1319855210.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9aagb$b2v$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 10/31/2011 11:01 PM, dhyams wrote:
>
> Thanks for all of the responses; everyone was exactly correct, and
> obeying the binding rules for special methods did work in the example
> above.  Unfortunately, I only have read-only access to the class
> itself (it was a VTK class wrapped with SWIG), so I had to find
> another way to accomplish what I was after.
>

As a big huge hack, you can always write a wrapper class:

class Wrapper(object):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         self.__object = MySWIGClass(*args, **kwargs)
     def __getattr__(self, attr):
         try:
             return getattr(self.__object, attr)
         except AttributeError:
             ...



From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Mon Nov  7 23:32:46 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:32:46 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>

I got trouble about easy_install command.

My package:

  README.rst
  setup.py
  foobar/
  foobar/__init__.py
  foobar/data/
  foobar/data/template.py

In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
template data file (= not a python module file).
(notice that 'foobar/data/__init__.py' doesn't exist.)

In this case, 'foobar/data/template.py' file is NOT installed
when trying 'easy_install foobar'.
This is trouble what I got.

I found that:

* foobar.tar.gz created by 'easy_install sdist' contains
  'foobar/data/template.py' correctly.
* foobar.egg created by 'easy_install bdist' doesn't contain
  'foobar/data/template.py' file.

Question: how can I enforce easy_install command to
install 'foobar/data/template.py' (or non-package *.py file)?

--
regars,
makoto kuwata


From cs at zip.com.au  Mon Nov  7 23:59:00 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:59:00 +1100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>

On 07Nov2011 15:00, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
| On Monday, November 07, 2011 02:43:11 PM Dave Angel did opine:
| > On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
| > > Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high
| > > as 33 leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab
| > > indented 2 additional tabs from the one above it in the original
| > > file.  30k was perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely
| > > reasonable guess.
| > 
| > What program are you using to read the file and support that claim?
| 
| vim.  But remember, this first one started out as a copy/paste from the 
| firefox-7.0.1 screen.

I don't suppose you had autoident turned on?

I hate using cu/paste to fetch data; _always_ use a "download" link, or
use the browser's "save page as" facility.

But still, if your MD5 checksums now match...

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Footnotes that extend to a second page are an abject failure of design.
        - Bringhurst, _The Elements of Typographic Style_


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:09:56 2011
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:09:56 +1100
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/08/2011 01:21 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:44 pm, John Gordon<gor... at panix.com>  wrote:
>> In<j98tnf$qh... at reader1.panix.com>  John Gordon<gor... at panix.com>  writes:
>>
>>> In<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b450... at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>  Travis Parks<jehugalea... at gmail.com>  writes:
>>>> Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
>>>> to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
>>>> good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
>>> I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework.  However I've
>>> only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.
>>
>> You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)
>>
>> The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
>> native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.
>>
>> I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
>> project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data.  (But I'd be surprised
>> if it had poor performance.)
>>
>> The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
>> given URL with a given method call.
>>
>> Community support is excellent.
>>
>> --
>> John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
>> gor... at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
>>                                  -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
>
> I started the battle today. The "new guy" was trying to sell me on
> CodeIgnitor. I haven't looked at it, but it is PHP, so I really want
> to avoid it. The good thing is that all of his "friends" have been
> telling him to get into Python. I have been trying to convince him
> that PHP isn't cut out for background services and is mostly a front-
> end language. Python is much more geared towards hardcore data
> processing. Why write the system in two languages?
>
> I have been spending a lot of time looking at the Pyramid project: the
> next generation of the Pylons project. It looks powerful, but it seems
> to be a lot more complex than Django.

CodeIgniter is a very fine framework, however it builds on top of a 
shitty excuse of a language called PHP.

I've found that Django has a much better debugging tools; when a Django 
page produces an exception, it would always produce a useful error page. 
I haven't been able to do the same in CodeIgniter (nor in any PHP 
framework I've used, I'm starting to think it's a language limitation); 
often when you have errors, PHP would just silently return empty or 
partial pages even with all the debugging flags on.

IMO, Python has a much nicer choice of built-in data structure for data 
processing. Python has a much more mature object-orientation, e.g. I 
prefer writing l.append(x) rather than array_push(l, x). I think these 
qualities are what makes you think Python is much, much more suitable 
for data processing than PHP; and I wholesomely agree.

Database abstraction-wise, Django's ORM wins hands down against 
CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord. CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord is basically just 
a thin wrapper that abstracts the perks of various database engine. 
Django's ORM is a full blown ORM, it handles foreign key relationships 
in OO way. The only disadvantage of Django's ORM is that since it's 
written in Python, if you need to write a program working on the same 
database that doesn't use Django nor Python, then you'll have a problem 
since you'll have to duplicate the foreign key relationships.

With all the bashing of PHP, PHP do have a few advantages. PHP and 
CodeIgniter is much easier to set up and running than Django; and the 
ability to create a .php file and have it running without having to 
write the routing file is sometimes a bliss. And PHP are often used as 
their own templating language; in contrast with Django which uses a 
separate templating language. Having a full blown language as your 
templating language can be a double-edged sword, but it is useful 
nevertheless for experimental work.

IMO, while it is easier to get up and running in PHP, in the long run 
Python is much better in almost any other aspects.



From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:10:59 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: overview on dao
Message-ID: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
written in python. The links related to dao are here:

pypi distribution and document: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/daot
code repository: https://github.com/chaosim/dao
dao groups on google: Group name: daot, Group home page:
http://groups.google.com/group/daot, Group email address:
daot at googlegroups.com
old stuffs: http://code.google.com/p/daot(old, deprecated)
google+ pages: https://plus.google.com/112050694070234685790

Dao has the features such as

*   lisp style programming:

    *  call/cc, block/return-from, unwind-protect, catch/throw;

        Dao is implemented by continuation passing style, so it is
natural to implement such stuff. And I have some little improvement to
the trampoline technology because I need it coexist with the
technology of using yield statement to implement unifying and
backtracking. The code for evaluating lisp style expression is
borrowed from the book "Lisp in Small Pieces" wrote by Christian
Queinnec and Ecole Polytechnique.

    *  function and macro;

       The concept of function and macro in dao become more general
than in lisp, because we can define them with multiple rules and take
advantage of unifying and backtracking.

    *  eval, so called meta circular evaluation.

* prolog style programming:

    *  logic variable and unify;

    *   backtracking;

    *   findall, repeat/fail, call, once, and so on;

    *   cut.

    At first, unify is implemented by using exception, and
backtracking by using two continuations(succeed continuation and fail
continuation) technology, borrowed the code from pypy prolog. Now, the
fail continuation is removed, and both unifying and backtracking is
implemented  by using 'yield' statement, which I learned from
YieldProlog (http://yieldprolog.sourceforge.net). Dao run faster than
before by using yield statement, removing class definition of
continuation, and not boxing atomic and list values(compare to pypy
prolog without translation or jit). Up to now I do not use the pypy's
translation or jit feature to speedup, and all of the tests in dao
0.7.3 run in about two minutes.

* many other useful builtins that simulate lisp and prolog
primitives.

* some builtins that cooperate with python.

* builtin parser, which is the most powerful parser I have seen.

  The parser in dao is basically a recursive decent parser with
backtracking, but It also support direct or indirect left recursive
rules by using memorization when needed. The programmer can toggle
memorization of any command that is not left recursive. the grammar in
dao is some similar to DCG(definite clause grammar), but is more
flexible than DCG. It have the expressive power beyond context free or
sensitive grammar, parsing expression grammar. Dao can be used to
parse any object, not limiting to text. Many builtin terminal and
combinative parsing primitives are provided.

  In dao, I have found and implemented the unrivalled technology to
uniting parser and evaluator by the meta circular evaluation. So Dao
can be used to implement a programming language in which the syntax is
dynamic, that is to say, the syntax can be defined on the fly by the
programmer easily. A little sample to demonstrate this technology is
given in the files dao/samples/sexpression.py and dao/dao/tests/
testsexpresson.py.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dinpy: a child language born and live in python.

  Dinpy can be looked as the syntax sugar for dao in python. It arises
accidentally when I wrote tests for dao. A detailed introduction is as
follows: I hate the too many parentheses when I wrote tests for the
'let' statement of lisp, so I replace embedded tuples with dict for
the bindings, and after the spark of inspiration, the door to dinpy
was open. I learned a new method for inventing a new language from it:
use the syntax based on the operator of the mother language for
building the child language.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have written some Chinese documents for dao, but few English. The
Chinese document is not complete yet. With the functional logic
programming and dynamic grammar on the shoulders of the great python,
many possibilities arises with dao, such as parsing, inventing
embedded DSL with operator syntax, independent domain specific
language or general language, text processing, natural language
processing, expert system, artificial intelligence, web application,
and so on.

Now:

* I hope more people know and use dao. Or maybe something wrong in dao
prevent it being used in real application, and I hope to know what it
is.

* Maybe anyone have interest and time to join in developing dao or
writing some documents or articles?

* More tests are needed always, and I hope to get some bug report from
any other people.

* the benchmarks of the dao, comparation with similar package, and so
on.

* I have a long todo list, I hope someone else can join in dao project.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:29:25 2011
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:29:25 +1100
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
In-Reply-To: <4eb77503$0$1692$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>	<87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>	<j95kld$ng4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2472.1320609864.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb77503$0$1692$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <j9aenm$v4j$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/07/2011 05:04 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> Realize that SQLite is not a high-performance multi-user database.
> You use SQLite to store your browser preferences, not your customer
> database.

I agree with SQLite is not multi-user; I disagree that SQLite is not a 
high-performance database. In single user cases, SQLite should far 
outperform a client-server-based database engine since it doesn't have 
the client-server overhead.



From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:34:55 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simpler over view on dao: a functional logic solver with builtin
	parsing power, and dinpy, the sugar syntax for dao in python
Message-ID: <da6cf8cd-497f-4eed-a984-2ac5c582998e@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
written in python. The links related to dao are here:

pypi distribution and document: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/daot

code repository: https://github.com/chaosim/dao

dao groups on google: http://groups.google.com/group/daot,
daot at googlegroups.com

old stuffs: http://code.google.com/p/daot(old, deprecated)

google+ pages: https://plus.google.com/112050694070234685790

Dao has the features such as

*   lisp style programming:

    *  call/cc, block/return-from, unwind-protect, catch/throw;

    *  function and macro;

    *  eval, so called meta circular evaluation.

* prolog style programming:

    *  logic variable and unify;

    *   backtracking;

    *   findall, repeat/fail, call, once, and so on;

    *   cut.

* many other useful builtins that simulate lisp and prolog
primitives.

* some builtins that cooperate with python.

* builtin parser, which is the most powerful parser I have seen, it
support the features as below:

    *   paramater grammar, similar to DCG( definite clause grammar),
but more flexible
    *   dynamic grammar,
    *   left recursive
    *   memoriaziont parsing result
    *   many builtins, include terminal and cominative matchers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dinpy: a child language born and live in python.

  Dinpy can be looked as the syntax sugar for dao in python. A piece
of code in dinpy is listed as below:

        parse_text(char(x1)+any(~char('b')+some(char(x1)))+eoi,
'abaaaa'),

	let( i<<0 ). do[ repeat, prin(i), ++i, iff(i<3).do[fail] ],

	letr( a << fun(x) [ and_p(b(x),c(x)) ]
			  [ d(x) ],
	      b << fun(1) ['b1']
		      (4) ['b4'],
	      c << fun(4) ['c4'],
	      d << fun(3) ['d3'],
	     ).do[
	     a(x), prin(x) ],

	each(i)[1:3].
	  loop[prin(i)],

	i << 0,
	loop[ i << i+1, prin(i)].when(i==3),

	case(1).
	  of(1)[prin(1)].
	  of(2)[prin(2)]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some Chinese documents for dao is written, but few English. The
Chinese document is not complete yet.

With the functional logic programming and dynamic grammar on the
shoulders of the great python, many possibilities arises with dao,
such as parsing, inventing embedded DSL with operator syntax,
independent domain specific language or general language, text
processing, natural language processing, expert system, artificial
intelligence, web application, and so on.

Now:

* I hope more people know and use dao. Or maybe something wrong in dao
prevent it being used in real application, and I hope to know what it
is.

* Maybe anyone have interest and time to join in developing dao or
writing some documents or articles?

* More tests are needed always, and I hope to get some bug report from
any other people.

* the benchmarks of the dao, comparation with similar package, and so
on.

* I have a long todo list, I hope someone else can join in dao project.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 00:58:17 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Nov 2011 05:58:17 GMT
Subject: How to mix-in __getattr__ after the fact?
References: <4630c4d0-86bc-4295-8bbb-6f58415191c8@v15g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAAF264.1050307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2298.1319855210.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2529.1320725851.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb8c4f9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:17:14 +1100, Lie Ryan wrote:

> On 10/31/2011 11:01 PM, dhyams wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all of the responses; everyone was exactly correct, and
>> obeying the binding rules for special methods did work in the example
>> above.  Unfortunately, I only have read-only access to the class itself
>> (it was a VTK class wrapped with SWIG), so I had to find another way to
>> accomplish what I was after.
>>
>>
> As a big huge hack, you can always write a wrapper class:
> 
> class Wrapper(object):
>      def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>          self.__object = MySWIGClass(*args, **kwargs)
>      def __getattr__(self, attr):
>          try:
>              return getattr(self.__object, attr)
>          except AttributeError:
>              ...


That's not a hack, that's a well-respected design pattern called 
Delegation.

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Delegate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegation_pattern


In this case, you've implemented about half of automatic delegation:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52295

which used to be much more important in Python prior to the type/class 
unification in version 2.2.


To also delegate special dunder methods using new-style classes, see this:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/252151



-- 
Steven


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Tue Nov  8 01:29:46 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 01:29:46 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <201111080129.46728.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:53:20 AM Cameron Simpson did opine:

> On 07Nov2011 15:00, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
> | On Monday, November 07, 2011 02:43:11 PM Dave Angel did opine:
> | > On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> | > > Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as
> | > > high as 33 leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was
> | > > tab indented 2 additional tabs from the one above it in the
> | > > original file.  30k was perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems
> | > > an entirely reasonable guess.
> | > 
> | > What program are you using to read the file and support that claim?
> | 
> | vim.  But remember, this first one started out as a copy/paste from
> | the firefox-7.0.1 screen.
> 
> I don't suppose you had autoident turned on?
> 
I think it is.  I gave up turning it off long ago because it was always on 
on the next launch.  Today I've forgotten how to turn it off.  Like hitting 
oneself in the head with a hammer, it feels so good when you stop.  :)

> I hate using cu/paste to fetch data; _always_ use a "download" link, or
> use the browser's "save page as" facility.

Which would have saved all the html codes too, this code was being 
displayed in a window of the main window.
 
> But still, if your MD5 checksums now match...

Not on that file, but on the next pull it was, and works now.  And on the 
first file, the blink compare disclosed I had some indentation wrong, and 
that there was a lowercase b in front of all the opening double quotes used 
that I didn't get originally.  I have no clue what this:
	b"hex data" means to python.

> Cheers,


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
To love is good, love being difficult.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 01:42:20 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:42:20 +1100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111080129.46728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>
	<201111080129.46728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8P1EEpKTtYajfEnvf9=8KwB6hBUS6TT3EU6GGbVrs8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:29 PM, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
> Not on that file, but on the next pull it was, and works now. ?And on the
> first file, the blink compare disclosed I had some indentation wrong, and
> that there was a lowercase b in front of all the opening double quotes used
> that I didn't get originally. ?I have no clue what this:
> ? ? ? ?b"hex data" means to python.

That's the repr() of a Bytes string (as opposed to a Unicode string)
in Python 3. If that's your only issue, I'd say you have it working
fine under Python 3; if there are other problems, try running it under
Python 2.7.

ChrisA


From moky.math at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 02:07:39 2011
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:07:39 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9akfo$86c$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>

Le 07/11/2011 19:01, JoeM a ?crit :
> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

I have the feeling that it does not do what I expect it does just by 
seeing the line. It is list comprehension, but the point is absolutely 
not in creating a list.

I'd say it breaks the rule ?Explicit is better than implicit.? while 
?Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.?

But well... could be a matter of taste; I prefer the loop.

Laurent


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 02:35:32 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 18:35:32 +1100
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqtdDnh3diL_7mDu3skkyAnkPkGrnWPxmL_UKdqkOLPyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
> IMO, Python has a much nicer choice of built-in data structure for data
> processing. Python has a much more mature object-orientation, e.g. I prefer
> writing l.append(x) rather than array_push(l, x). I think these qualities
> are what makes you think Python is much, much more suitable for data
> processing than PHP; and I wholesomely agree.
>

Two more examples where Python's lists are superior to PHP's arrays.
Array literal syntax feels like a function call, but list literals are
slim and easy to use inside expressions (try creating a nested array
as a function argument - you'll get a forest of parens). Also,
dereferencing an array only works on an array variable - if you have a
function that returns an array, you can't dereference it directly:

$foo = func()[1];   # doesn't work
$foo = func(); $foo=$foo[1];  # works

I much prefer the "everything's an object" notion. C's array literals
are just as weird (although in C, you can directly dereference a
literal character array - "ABCDEFG"[note_idx] will give you a note
name as a char)... much easier when a variable name is just an
expression, a function call is an expression, a literal is an
expression, and you can work with them all the same way.

ChrisA


From vaira20ster at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 05:05:53 2011
From: vaira20ster at gmail.com (vaira muthu)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:35:53 +0530
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
Message-ID: <CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg@mail.gmail.com>

Team,

In Python IDE, while we save the script, it will prompt the save
Dialog. If we specify the filename as "Test". Then file will be saved
without extension as "Test" and not "Test.py".

Is it possible to save the script with .py extension automatically (as Test.py)?

Thanks,
vairamuthu.


From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Nov  8 05:50:53 2011
From: lycka at carmen.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 11:50:53 +0100
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9b1ie$kec$1@rifle.jeppesensystems.com>

On 2011-11-08 11:05, vaira muthu wrote:
> In Python IDE, ...

Which Python IDE?

There are dozens:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments



From hfaber at invalid.net  Tue Nov  8 07:09:20 2011
From: hfaber at invalid.net (Henrik Faber)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 13:09:20 +0100
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 07.11.2011 23:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:46 AM, david vierra <codewarrior0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But, you didn't write an all() function.  You wrote a more specialized
>> allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
>> builtin all():
> 
> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:

PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.

Regards, Henrik


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 07:14:09 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 23:14:09 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Henrik Faber <hfaber at invalid.net> wrote:
> On 07.11.2011 23:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
>> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>
> PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
> this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.

For the benefit of anyone who was actually in doubt: YES, I was
joking. Do *not* put code like this into any production project.

But it's still fun to write bad code once in a while. It's like
Mythbusters getting to crash cars. Fun partly _because_ it's something
you normally don't want to do.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  8 07:58:19 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:58:19 -0500
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqtdDnh3diL_7mDu3skkyAnkPkGrnWPxmL_UKdqkOLPyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqtdDnh3diL_7mDu3skkyAnkPkGrnWPxmL_UKdqkOLPyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB9276B.7070207@davea.name>

On 11/08/2011 02:35 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Lie Ryan<lie.1296 at gmail.com>  wrote:
> <SNIP>
> I much prefer the "everything's an object" notion. C's array literals
> are just as weird (although in C, you can directly dereference a
> literal character array - "ABCDEFG"[note_idx] will give you a note
> name as a char)
Hey, in C you can also do

      note_idx["ABCDEFG"]

and get the selected character as if you had written what you showed.  
Plenty of opportunity in C to write illegible code.

-- 

DaveA



From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 08:20:51 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 05:20:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help catching error message
Message-ID: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

What I say is this:

def SaveEvents(self,events):
   try:
      plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
None if OK
   except IOError:
      return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
file"

Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.

I catch the error like this:

errorStatus=Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
if errorStatus: content=errorStatus

It works, but isn there a more elegant way to do it? As in, one line?
I can imagine if success returned nothing then content would remain
unchanged. Isn't there a built-in way to send an error string back and
then catch it as a variable name?

This is Py3 inside WSGI.

-- Gnarlie


From garyfallidis at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 08:21:29 2011
From: garyfallidis at gmail.com (Eleftherios Garyfallidis)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:21:29 +0100
Subject: ctypes accessing functions with double pointers
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRRmHBVq4SSV4nMJhTpyw7SXteSgoRpMPxqLRG-BfmJ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMZYqRRmHBVq4SSV4nMJhTpyw7SXteSgoRpMPxqLRG-BfmJ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6JmWOX9q9OBrgH9mMj_gkf-2T6QyU+MJymTHQocrh9iiXRNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Chris :-)

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Eleftherios Garyfallidis
> <garyfallidis at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Is it possible using ctypes to call C functions from a shared object
> > containing double pointers e.g. int foo(float **i) and if yes how?
>
> (Untested conjecture:)
>
> import ctypes
> # ...create ctypes_wrapped_foo...
> the_float = ctypes.c_float(42.1)
> float_ptr = ctypes.byref(the_float)
> i = ctypes.byref(float_ptr)
> result_integer = ctypes_wrapped_foo(i)
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
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From gordon at panix.com  Tue Nov  8 10:17:19 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:17:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9bh5v$a2$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list at python.org> vaira muthu <vaira20ster at gmail.com> writes:

> Team,

> In Python IDE, while we save the script, it will prompt the save
> Dialog. If we specify the filename as "Test". Then file will be saved
> without extension as "Test" and not "Test.py".

Is there a drop-down list selection for specifying the file type?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From rajcspalani at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 10:53:52 2011
From: rajcspalani at gmail.com (mannan)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:53:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6395.778.1320767632967.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

if it is not a python ide then, you have to explicitly specify the extension.


From rajcspalani at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 10:53:52 2011
From: rajcspalani at gmail.com (mannan)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:53:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6395.778.1320767632967.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

if it is not a python ide then, you have to explicitly specify the extension.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov  8 12:15:40 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:15:40 +0100
Subject: Help catching error message
In-Reply-To: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB963BC.7080506@sequans.com>

Gnarlodious wrote:
> What I say is this:
>
> def SaveEvents(self,events):
>    try:
>       plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
> None if OK
>    except IOError:
>       return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
> file"
>
> Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.
>
> I catch the error like this:
>
> errorStatus=Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
> if errorStatus: content=errorStatus
>
> It works, but isn there a more elegant way to do it? As in, one line?
> I can imagine if success returned nothing then content would remain
> unchanged. Isn't there a built-in way to send an error string back and
> then catch it as a variable name?
>
> This is Py3 inside WSGI.
>
> -- Gnarlie
>   
Hi,

There's no need to rephrase an exception unless you want to *add* 
information.

def saveEvents(self,events):
    plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') 

try:   
    Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
except IOError, exc: # i'm using python 2.5, this except clause may have 
changed in py3
    content = str(exc)

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov  8 12:24:30 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:24:30 +0100
Subject: Help catching error message
In-Reply-To: <4EB963BC.7080506@sequans.com>
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB963BC.7080506@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4EB965CE.4020300@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Gnarlodious wrote:
>> What I say is this:
>>
>> def SaveEvents(self,events):
>>    try:
>>       plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
>> None if OK
>>    except IOError:
>>       return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
>> file"
>>
>> Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.
>>
>> I catch the error like this:
>>
>> errorStatus=Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
>> if errorStatus: content=errorStatus
>>
>> It works, but isn there a more elegant way to do it? As in, one line?
>> I can imagine if success returned nothing then content would remain
>> unchanged. Isn't there a built-in way to send an error string back and
>> then catch it as a variable name?
>>
>> This is Py3 inside WSGI.
>>
>> -- Gnarlie
>>   
> Hi,
>
> There's no need to rephrase an exception unless you want to *add* 
> information.
>
> def saveEvents(self,events):
>    plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist')
> try:      Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
> except IOError, exc: # i'm using python 2.5, this except clause may 
> have changed in py3
>    content = str(exc)
>
> JM
>
looks like for whatever reason the formating has gone crazy.
http://www.copypastecode.com/100088/

jm



From nad at acm.org  Tue Nov  8 12:28:28 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:28:28 -0800
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
References: <CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nad-CC71BB.09282808112011@dough.gmane.org>

In article 
<CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg at mail.gmail.com>,
 vaira muthu <vaira20ster at gmail.com> wrote:
> In Python IDE, while we save the script, it will prompt the save
> Dialog. If we specify the filename as "Test". Then file will be saved
> without extension as "Test" and not "Test.py".
> 
> Is it possible to save the script with .py extension automatically (as 
> Test.py)?

If the IDE you are referring to is IDLE, there is an issue recently 
opened that requests this change:
    http://bugs.python.org/issue10364

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  8 14:09:18 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:09:18 -0500
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 11:32 PM, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
> I got trouble about easy_install command.
>
> My package:
>
>    README.rst
>    setup.py
>    foobar/
>    foobar/__init__.py
>    foobar/data/
>    foobar/data/template.py
>
> In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
> template data file (= not a python module file).

Then why is it .py? If it is just data, use .txt. If .py, it should be 
python code run either directly or imported, though I suppose you could 
exec it. (I have no idea how renaming would affect your problem.)

> (notice that 'foobar/data/__init__.py' doesn't exist.)

I did, and no, I do not know the answer to your question.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From anikom15 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 14:11:58 2011
From: anikom15 at gmail.com (Westley =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDnez?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:11:58 -0800
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111108191158.GA21926@kubrick>

On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 11:10:58AM -0400, Steven Lehar wrote:
> Is this the right place to propose language extensions?
> 
> My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
> contained within reasonable limits. But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
> and [CR] will render it useless.
> 
> How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following whitespace
> which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it to continue on
> the next line.
> 
> Has this issue been discussed already?
> 
>   slehar

Use subroutines.


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Nov  8 14:34:30 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:34:30 -0500
Subject: xml-rpc server on wine
In-Reply-To: <1320685031.8941.11.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1320685031.8941.11.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <0604E20B5F6F2F4784C9C8C71C5DD4DD2FDF6DE578@EMARC112VS01.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>> Hi, I have a XML-RPC server python running on VM Windows (on Linux)
>> and a XML-RPC client python on Linux. Server and client have different
>> IP address. I'd like migrate server on wine. How can communicate
>> server and client? IP address is different or is the same?
>> Can you help me?

>Not really, this doesn't have much of anything to do with Python.  If
>you run a network application on wine [assuming that even works] the
>application will have the same IP/interface as any other application or
>service running on the host.  Wine is not a 'virtualization' solution.

Unless you have a specific need to run it in a virtual machine (which 
WINE is not), why not run it directly from Linux? I generally prefer
to use a DNS name or hostname to connect instead of IP because the
IP addresses can be dynamic (especially when you start accessing it 
from outside your local network). Even internally, I tend to use hostnames
and not IP addresses, but mostly because it is faster/easier for me 
to type (I assign static IPs internally).

Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 17:16:33 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Nov 2011 22:16:33 GMT
Subject: Help catching error message
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb9aa41$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 05:20:51 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote:

> What I say is this:
> 
> def SaveEvents(self,events):
>    try:
>       plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
> None if OK
>    except IOError:
>       return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
> file"
> 
> Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.

I started off writing a sarcastic response about people who refuse to 
learn idiomatic Python and instead insist on writing (e.g.) Java or PHPP 
in Python. But then I eventually got to the *very last line* of your post 
where you noted that you were doing this in WSGI.

For future reference, when writing unidiomatic code *deliberately*, 
please say so up front, at the start of your message rather than at the 
end, and save your readers (or at least *me*) from jumping to the wrong 
conclusion.


Change the function to this:

def SaveEvents(self,events):
    try:
        plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist')
        return ''
    except IOError as e:
        return str(e)
        # or if you prefer, your own custom error string
        # "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist file"


I return a string in both cases so that you can, if you choose, use the 
output of SaveEvents anywhere where a string is expected without worrying 
about whether it returns None or a string:

content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
# content will be the empty string if no error, otherwise error message.

If you don't care about that, just delete the return '' line and the 
function will fall back on returning None by default.

Either way, you can also use it like this:

content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events) or content

This will leave content unchanged if no error is returned, otherwise it 
will replace the value. Note that content must have an initial value to 
start with (presumably the empty string).


-- 
Steven


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  8 17:19:13 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:19:13 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
Message-ID: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Hi people!
I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.

Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!

now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py

in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.


Tamer


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Nov  8 17:24:58 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:24:58 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4eb9ac3b$0$6908$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 8-11-2011 23:19, MrSmile wrote:
> Hi people!
> I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
>
> Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
>
> now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
> python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
>
> in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
> like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.
>
>
> Tamer

sys.argv


Irmen



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Nov  8 17:32:30 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:32:30 -0800
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTgTU=w6P_Ff-k3VX8_W8Qwpgf-K1y2N77mj-EzCZGTSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM, MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:
> Hi people!
> I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
>
> Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
>
> now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
> python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
>
> in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
> like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.

Under your example conditions:
sys.argv[0] will be "/home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py". (A)
os.getcwd() will return "/tmp". (B)

The `os.path` module is also very relevant:
http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com

(A): http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.argv
(B): http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.getcwd


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Nov  8 17:32:38 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:32:38 +1100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <20111108223238.GA24364@cskk.homeip.net>

On 08Nov2011 23:19, MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:
| I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
| 
| Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
| 
| now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
| python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
| 
| in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
| like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.

Have you looked in sys.argv[0]?
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

It is not true that life is one damn thing after another -- it's one damn
thing over and over.    - Edna St. Vincent Millay


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  8 17:36:13 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:36:13 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2553.1320791563.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<mailman.2553.1320791563.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb9aedd$0$6567$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Thank you all, that was it that I was searching for you.


Tamer

Am 08.11.2011 23:32, schrieb Cameron Simpson:
> On 08Nov2011 23:19, MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:
> | I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
> | 
> | Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
> | 
> | now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
> | python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
> | 
> | in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
> | like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.
> 
> Have you looked in sys.argv[0]?



From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Nov  8 17:51:27 2011
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:51:27 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB9B26F.3050704@optimum.net>

On 2:59 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

>>> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
>>> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>> PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
>> this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.
> For the benefit of anyone who was actually in doubt: YES, I was
> joking. Do *not* put code like this into any production project.

Because an all-factory would produce code smell? :-)



From tim at akwebsoft.com  Tue Nov  8 18:54:12 2011
From: tim at akwebsoft.com (Tim Johnson)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:54:12 -0900
Subject: Decouplable CMS in python?
Message-ID: <20111108235412.GK3736@akwebsoft.com>

:)I'm sure decouplable is a word. If not it should be.

I have written my own framework. This has been a work in progress as
a consequence of projects that I have done over the last 10 years.
I need a CMS that sits "on top of" the framework. One of the
starting points that I have considered is finding a fairly simple,
but well-written CMS in python and adapting it. 

It may very well turn out that I would have to start from 'scratch',
nevertheless, reviewing code for such a simple CMS would be
informative. 

I'm thinking that, as an example - django-cms - would be too
complex, regardless of its merits. 

Any recommendations?
thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Nov  8 18:56:48 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:56:48 -0600
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4EB9B26F.3050704@optimum.net>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>	<j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB9B26F.3050704@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4EB9C1C0.2050302@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/08/2011 04:51 PM, John Posner wrote:
> On 2:59 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>>>> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
>>>> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>>> PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
>>> this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.
>> For the benefit of anyone who was actually in doubt: YES, I was
>> joking. Do *not* put code like this into any production project.
>
> Because an all-factory would produce code smell? :-)

Groan...that word-play is the pits! :)

-tkc




From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 19:13:12 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:13:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: overview on dao
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 9, 1:52?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST), Simeon Chaos
> <simeon.ch... at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
> > written in python. The links related to dao are here:
>
> ? ? ? ? Unfortunately the name is in conflict with M$ DAO (Data Access
> Objects), the precursor to ADO. Every time I see "Dao" my mind goes "JET
> database".
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? AF6VN
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Yeah,  here "dao" is from The book of Dao" by Laozi, means the way of
the world go.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 19:44:18 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 19:44:18 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>

Clearly what we need is a modern hygienic macro system to avoid this exec mess!

defmacro defall(name, cond):
    def name(lst):
        for a in lst:
            if not cond:
                return False
        return True

invoke defall(all, cond)

Only slightly tongue in cheek.

We have that stupid exec trick in the Python stdlib. It has to die.

http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/6bf07db23445/Lib/collections/__init__.py#l240

Devin

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:46 AM, david vierra <codewarrior0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But, you didn't write an all() function. ?You wrote a more specialized
>> allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
>> builtin all():
>
> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>
> def my_all(code,lst):
> ? ?exec("""def tmp_all(x):
> ? ? ? ?for a in x:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if not ("""+code+"""): return False
> ? ? ? ?return True
> """)
> ? ?return tmp_all(lst)
> timeit.timeit('my_all("a in (True, False)",x)','from __main__ import
> my_all,x',number=10)
>
> Bad code imho, but it _is_ faster than both the original and the builtin.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov  8 19:55:35 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:55:35 +0000
Subject: overview on dao
In-Reply-To: <79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB9CF87.6060202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 09/11/2011 00:13, Simeon Chaos wrote:
> On Nov 9, 1:52 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com>  wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST), Simeon Chaos
>> <simeon.ch... at gmail.com>  declaimed the following in
>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>> Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
>>> written in python. The links related to dao are here:
>>
>>          Unfortunately the name is in conflict with M$ DAO (Data Access
>> Objects), the precursor to ADO. Every time I see "Dao" my mind goes "JET
>> database".
>> --
>>          Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
>>          wlfr... at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> Yeah,  here "dao" is from The book of Dao" by Laozi, means the way of
> the world go.

Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 20:19:42 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:19:42 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Clearly what we need is a modern hygienic macro system to avoid this exec mess!
>
> defmacro defall(name, cond):
> ? ?def name(lst):
> ? ? ? ?for a in lst:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if not cond:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return False
> ? ? ? ?return True

#define defall(name,cond) def name(lst): \
    for a in lst: \
        if not cond: return False \
    return True

gcc -E myprog.pyi -o myprog.py

There's no code you can't make more opaque using the C preprocessor.

Python doesn't have inline functions? Ha! In your FACE, evil Python
development cabal! You can't tell ME what I can't do!

ChrisA
PS. Don't try this at home. We have years of experience with bad code.
Don't write code like this unless you have a life insurance policy
that covers angry mobs.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Nov  8 20:30:48 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:30:48 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRB4xQPObBcYfzZkEzN=4wMUOxvtFGL=qcyVGGSeUA=Hw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
> <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Clearly what we need is a modern hygienic macro system to avoid this exec mess!
>>
>> defmacro defall(name, cond):
>> ? ?def name(lst):
>> ? ? ? ?for a in lst:
>> ? ? ? ? ? ?if not cond:
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return False
>> ? ? ? ?return True
>
> #define defall(name,cond) def name(lst): \
> ? ?for a in lst: \
> ? ? ? ?if not cond: return False \
> ? ?return True
>
> gcc -E myprog.pyi -o myprog.py
>
> There's no code you can't make more opaque using the C preprocessor.
>
> Python doesn't have inline functions? Ha! In your FACE, evil Python
> development cabal! You can't tell ME what I can't do!
>
> ChrisA
> PS. Don't try this at home. We have years of experience with bad code.
> Don't write code like this unless you have a life insurance policy
> that covers angry mobs.

Burn him! Witch! Witch! Burn him!
His code turned me into a newt!
--
Sent nailed to a coconut carried by swallow.


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 20:48:57 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:48:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help catching error message
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb9aa41$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d71afa52-8fe8-40cf-a80f-ae9e76984ee2@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 8, 3:16?pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events) or content
>
> This will leave content unchanged if no error is returned, otherwise it
> will replace the value.
Ah, the 'or' operator does it. Thank you, that is exactly what I was
looking for.

I should confess, I am not a programmer and don't even know what
"idiomatic" means in this context. I don't know Java or PHP, only a
little Forth from the HP calculator era. Advanced topics I just skip
over because I don't understand them. But I am learning slowly and
appreciate the help.

-- Rachel
http://Sectrum.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 21:47:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Nov 2011 02:47:30 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:44:18 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

> We have that stupid exec trick in the Python stdlib. It has to die.
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/6bf07db23445/Lib/collections/__init__.py#l240


http://bugs.python.org/issue3974
http://blog.ccpgames.com/kristjan/2011/05/28/namedtuple-and-exec/

If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use 
of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 21:57:28 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Nov 2011 02:57:28 GMT
Subject: Help catching error message
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb9aa41$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<d71afa52-8fe8-40cf-a80f-ae9e76984ee2@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb9ec18$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:48:57 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote:

> On Nov 8, 3:16?pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events) or content
>>
>> This will leave content unchanged if no error is returned, otherwise it
>> will replace the value.
> Ah, the 'or' operator does it. Thank you, that is exactly what I was
> looking for.
> 
> I should confess, I am not a programmer and don't even know what
> "idiomatic" means in this context. I don't know Java or PHP, only a
> little Forth from the HP calculator era. Advanced topics I just skip
> over because I don't understand them. But I am learning slowly and
> appreciate the help.

Idiomatic in this context means that the code follows standard styles, 
patterns or techniques commonly accepted by most good programmers of the 
language. This implies that the code works with the language, playing to 
its strengths, rather than against it.

Non-idiomatic code tends to be slower than it could be, or harder to 
read, or harder to maintain, or all three. Idiomatic is relative to the 
language: what is idiomatic for one language may not be for another.

For instance, if I were to ask "How do I do something with each item of a 
list?", the idiomatic way in Python would be:


for item in some_list:
    do_something_with(item)


rather than:

for i in range(len(some_list)):
    item = some_list[index]
    do_something_with(item)

and especially not this:

index = 0
while index < len(some_list):
    item = some_list[index]
    do_something_with(item)
    index += 1



Regards,



-- 
Steven


From mcepl at redhat.com  Wed Nov  9 05:20:08 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:20:08 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aedd$0$6567$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<mailman.2553.1320791563.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9aedd$0$6567$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <j9dk24$27d7$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Dne 8.11.2011 23:36, MrSmile napsal(a):
> Thank you all, that was it that I was searching for you.

Except that most likely it wasn't the right answer. Take a look at 
http://docs.python.org/library/argparse.html (or optparse, if you are on 
Python < 2.7).

Best,

Mat?j


From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 06:17:28 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 03:17:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: overview on dao
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2559.1320800531.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 9, 8:55?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 09/11/2011 00:13, Simeon Chaos wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 9, 1:52 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> ?wrote:
> >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST), Simeon Chaos
> >> <simeon.ch... at gmail.com> ?declaimed the following in
> >> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >>> Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
> >>> written in python. The links related to dao are here:
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Unfortunately the name is in conflict with M$ DAO (Data Access
> >> Objects), the precursor to ADO. Every time I see "Dao" my mind goes "JET
> >> database".
> >> --
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Wulfraed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? AF6VN
> >> ? ? ? ? ?wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> > Yeah, ?here "dao" is from The book of Dao" by Laozi, means the way of
> > the world go.
>
> Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".

I just prefer shorter name.


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Wed Nov  9 09:53:02 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:53:02 -0700
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <4EB8448B.7030709@davea.name>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB8448B.7030709@davea.name>
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2323@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

After some exception catching, I have found that my program is throwing a MemoryError exception numerous times (~7 iterations of the main loop that processes list elements) until python25\python.exe crashes (Windows XP environment).   I implemented Dave Angel's suggestions re: processing each list element (a file) as I get it. 

So my question would be how to begin troubleshooting the conditions under which the exception is raised. Is there any more information in the exception object about how much memory is being consumed, or any other indicators as to what led to the exception?

-juan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Angel [mailto:d at davea.name] 
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:50 PM
To: Juan Declet-Barreto
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: memory management

On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
You top-posted.  In this mailing list, one should type new information after the quoted information, not before.

Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order.  On the assumption that it may be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out.  Instead of walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get it.  Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory at the same time.


Generator:

def  filelist(top, criteria):
       for  a, b, c in os.walk():
              for fiile in files:
                    apply some criteria
                    yield file


Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way

for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
        dosomething...



-- 

DaveA



From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Nov  9 10:41:08 2011
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:41:08 +0100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2561.1320802252.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2561.1320802252.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eba9f14$0$6987$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 9/11/11 02:30:48, Chris Rebert wrote:

> Burn him! Witch! Witch! Burn him!
> His code turned me into a newt!
> --
> Sent nailed to a coconut carried by swallow.

Is that a European swallow or an African swallow?

-- HansM




From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Nov  9 10:56:01 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:56:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2547.1320773324.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2547.1320773324.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <18518506.120.1320854161026.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>

In testing and debug  it is better that a program can be easily modified and easy to set break point and dump values. Thus an interpreter environment is more convenient. But in the final version a compiler can speed up a lot!   


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Wed Nov  9 14:08:09 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:08:09 -0700
Subject: guppy
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.  

One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application. 

I am using Cygwin. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Binks [mailto:dbinks at codeaurora.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:31 AM
To: Juan Declet-Barreto
Subject: Re: memory management

On 11/9/2011 6:53 AM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> After some exception catching, I have found that my program is throwing a MemoryError exception numerous times (~7 iterations of the main loop that processes list elements) until python25\python.exe crashes (Windows XP environment).   I implemented Dave Angel's suggestions re: processing each list element (a file) as I get it.
>
> So my question would be how to begin troubleshooting the conditions under which the exception is raised. Is there any more information in the exception object about how much memory is being consumed, or any other indicators as to what led to the exception?
>
> -juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Angel [mailto:d at davea.name]
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:50 PM
> To: Juan Declet-Barreto
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: memory management
>
> On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
>> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
> You top-posted.  In this mailing list, one should type new information after the quoted information, not before.
>
> Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order.  On the assumption that it may be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out.  Instead of walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get it.  Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory at the same time.
>
>
> Generator:
>
> def  filelist(top, criteria):
>         for  a, b, c in os.walk():
>                for fiile in files:
>                      apply some criteria
>                      yield file
>
>
> Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way
>
> for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
>          dosomething...
>
>
>

Look for a tool called heapy.  I had a process that was consuming 10+G of RAM to run.  Using heapy I identified the culprit and reduced down to a more manageable 400M.

Dominic

--
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov  9 14:20:30 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:20:30 +0100
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 09.11.2011 20:08, schrieb Juan Declet-Barreto:
> I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.  
> 
> One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application. 
> 
> I am using Cygwin. 

Please show us the full error message with context.

Are you using a Cygwin build of Python or a native Windows build? What
GCC version and flavor are you using? I'm not sure if Cygwin is even
supported. I recommend that you use MinGW with GCC 4.x if you can't
afford VS 2003.

Christian



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Wed Nov  9 14:28:11 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:28:11 -0500
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXg2ifw1WL5v4z5mnp8651rq+3S6b=XAFfv1cfY1Qf+=vQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto
<Juan.Declet-Barreto at mesaaz.gov> wrote:
>
> I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.
>
> One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application.
>
> I am using Cygwin.
>
>

Mixing Cygwin libraries and normal Windows libraries usually doesn't
always work too well. Are you using a Cygwin-compiled version of
Python?

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dominic Binks [mailto:dbinks at codeaurora.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:31 AM
> To: Juan Declet-Barreto
> Subject: Re: memory management
>
> On 11/9/2011 6:53 AM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> > After some exception catching, I have found that my program is throwing a MemoryError exception numerous times (~7 iterations of the main loop that processes list elements) until python25\python.exe crashes (Windows XP environment). ? I implemented Dave Angel's suggestions re: processing each list element (a file) as I get it.
> >
> > So my question would be how to begin troubleshooting the conditions under which the exception is raised. Is there any more information in the exception object about how much memory is being consumed, or any other indicators as to what led to the exception?
> >
> > -juan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Angel [mailto:d at davea.name]
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:50 PM
> > To: Juan Declet-Barreto
> > Cc: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Re: memory management
> >
> > On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> >> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
> > You top-posted. ?In this mailing list, one should type new information after the quoted information, not before.
> >
> > Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order. ?On the assumption that it may be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out. ?Instead of walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get it. ?Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory at the same time.
> >
> >
> > Generator:
> >
> > def ?filelist(top, criteria):
> > ? ? ? ? for ?a, b, c in os.walk():
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for fiile in files:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?apply some criteria
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?yield file
> >
> >
> > Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way
> >
> > for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
> > ? ? ? ? ?dosomething...
> >
> >
> >
>
> Look for a tool called heapy. ?I had a process that was consuming 10+G of RAM to run. ?Using heapy I identified the culprit and reduced down to a more manageable 400M.
>
> Dominic
>
> --
> Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
> Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Wed Nov  9 14:38:03 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:38:03 -0700
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

I am using Cygwin build of Python2.6.  This Cygwin install has both a Cygwin gcc (versions 3.4.4 and 4.5.3) and mingw32 (3.4.4), as listed in lib/gcc/. 

I also tried the mingw32 shell separately, but I get the same results even when I pass the "-c mingw32" option. 

The error is reproduced below:

$ python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
building 'guppy.sets.setsc' extension
gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I/usr/include/python2.6 -c src/sets/sets.c -o build/temp.cygwin-1.7.9-i686-2.6/src/sets/sets.o
src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: initializer element is not constant
src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[0].type')
src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: initializer element is not constant
src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[1].type')
src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: initializer element is not constant
src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[2].type')

error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+juan.declet-barreto=mesaaz.gov at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+juan.declet-barreto=mesaaz.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Christian Heimes
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:21 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: guppy

Am 09.11.2011 20:08, schrieb Juan Declet-Barreto:
> I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.  
> 
> One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application. 
> 
> I am using Cygwin. 

Please show us the full error message with context.

Are you using a Cygwin build of Python or a native Windows build? What GCC version and flavor are you using? I'm not sure if Cygwin is even supported. I recommend that you use MinGW with GCC 4.x if you can't afford VS 2003.

Christian

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov  9 15:38:02 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 21:38:02 +0100
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <j9eobb$2b0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 09.11.2011 20:38, schrieb Juan Declet-Barreto:
> I am using Cygwin build of Python2.6.  This Cygwin install has both a Cygwin gcc (versions 3.4.4 and 4.5.3) and mingw32 (3.4.4), as listed in lib/gcc/. 
> 
> I also tried the mingw32 shell separately, but I get the same results even when I pass the "-c mingw32" option. 
> 
> The error is reproduced below:
> 
> $ python setup.py build
> running build
> running build_py
> running build_ext
> building 'guppy.sets.setsc' extension
> gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I/usr/include/python2.6 -c src/sets/sets.c -o build/temp.cygwin-1.7.9-i686-2.6/src/sets/sets.o
> src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: initializer element is not constant
> src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[0].type')
> src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: initializer element is not constant
> src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[1].type')
> src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: initializer element is not constant
> src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[2].type')
> 
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

static NyHeapDef nysets_heapdefs[] = {
    {0, 0, (NyHeapDef_SizeGetter) mutbitset_indisize},
    {0, 0, 0, cplbitset_traverse},
    {0, 0, nodeset_indisize,  nodeset_traverse, nodeset_relate},
    {0}
};

    nysets_heapdefs[0].type = &NyMutBitSet_Type;
    nysets_heapdefs[1].type = &NyCplBitSet_Type;
    nysets_heapdefs[2].type = &NyNodeSet_Type;

The code looks fine to me and compiles with GCC 4.6. It seems your GCC
chokes on "nysets_heapdefs[0].type = &NyMutBitSet_Type;". It's not a
file local static but an extern declaration. Are you sure that you are
using a recent version of GCC 4.x? I had some issues with GCC 3.x in the
past. Cygwin has GCC 3.x as default gcc.

For Python 2.6 you can use the free VS 2008 Express version. I've
compiled guppy for 32bit Python 2.7 a couple of days ago w/o any issue



From nagle at animats.com  Wed Nov  9 17:16:23 2011
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:16:23 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <4ebafbb7$0$1724$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

On 11/7/2011 1:00 PM, OKB (not okblacke) wrote:
>      	I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):

     CPython is slow. It's a naive interpreter.  There's
almost no optimization during compilation.  Try PyPy
or Shed Skin.

				John Nagle


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 18:01:16 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKVAS+oJs7p2W+kyYQdSbaB4Hc1GZvy7qEeQKOeC7+kyQ@mail.gmail.com>

> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.

I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name. It reads like
insanity, and the justification was terrible.

Devin

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:44:18 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>> We have that stupid exec trick in the Python stdlib. It has to die.
>>
>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/6bf07db23445/Lib/collections/__init__.py#l240
>
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue3974
> http://blog.ccpgames.com/kristjan/2011/05/28/namedtuple-and-exec/
>
> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov  9 18:11:51 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Nov 2011 23:11:51 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
> 
> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name.

Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a 
well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.


> It reads like
> insanity, and the justification was terrible.

It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.

You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it. 
What do you think is going to happen? The exec call inside namedtuple is 
going to creep out of the module in the wee hours of the night, 
contaminating other functions and modules while you sleep? Be serious. If 
you have an actual concrete security vulnerability caused by the use of 
exec inside namedtuple, or some other bug, then say so. Otherwise, your 
paranoia is unjustified.



-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 18:15:07 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:15:07 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJKVAS+oJs7p2W+kyYQdSbaB4Hc1GZvy7qEeQKOeC7+kyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJKVAS+oJs7p2W+kyYQdSbaB4Hc1GZvy7qEeQKOeC7+kyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpaYTwD+-m2Cc_sF9R1VTEV=G-Tk2VWupVRd=fi4Sx9Kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>
> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name. It reads like
> insanity, and the justification was terrible.

It's said that code exists foremost for humans to read, and only
incidentally for computers to execute. I believe that this is inverted
for library code; as long as the _interface_ is clean, you can get
away with some messy internals, because it's going to be executed far
more often than actually read. Python programmers can use namedtuples
happily without knowing that the implementation uses exec.

The justification is, if I understand correctly, that the alternative
is worse. That's plenty of justification imho.

ChrisA


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  9 19:58:15 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:58:15 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 11/7/2011 11:32 PM, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
>>
>> I got trouble about easy_install command.
>>
>> My package:
>>
>> ? README.rst
>> ? setup.py
>> ? foobar/
>> ? foobar/__init__.py
>> ? foobar/data/
>> ? foobar/data/template.py
>>
>> In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
>> template data file (= not a python module file).
>
> Then why is it .py? If it is just data, use .txt. If .py, it should be
> python code run either directly or imported, though I suppose you could exec
> it. (I have no idea how renaming would affect your problem.)
>

I want to use template names according to language,
such as template.py, template.html, template.rst, template.js, and so on.

My question is "how to include non-python files into egg file?"
I may change file name suffix from '.py' to '.py.template',
but it doesn't solve my problem.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 20:26:56 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.

I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
have no reason to share your faith.

> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.

Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
other reason?

I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
seems handwavy). I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
"never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
thinks this is awful.

> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
> What do you think is going to happen?

I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.

Devin


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>>
>> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name.
>
> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>
>
>> It reads like
>> insanity, and the justification was terrible.
>
> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>
> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
> What do you think is going to happen? The exec call inside namedtuple is
> going to creep out of the module in the wee hours of the night,
> contaminating other functions and modules while you sleep? Be serious. If
> you have an actual concrete security vulnerability caused by the use of
> exec inside namedtuple, or some other bug, then say so. Otherwise, your
> paranoia is unjustified.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 20:35:02 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:35:02 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKw4duWsdNcGSCMOjGNr4a=_MAiVbkHH8y1ZRVecBaNiA@mail.gmail.com>

> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

Sorry for the double post, but I think I damaged my statement a
little in the edit process here. I have a hard time
reading the code, and the implications of using exec on how
initialization works is not obvious. I do believe that this solution
is significantly less readable than it would be in a language with
"real" macros, or using an alternate dict-based approach. I don't mean
to just say "it's different, therefore it's wrong" -- it takes more
than just being unusual (not that the unusualness helps).

Devin

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>
> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
> have no reason to share your faith.
>
>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>
> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
>
> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
> other reason?
>
> I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
> seems handwavy). I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
> "never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
> thinks this is awful.
>
>> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
>> What do you think is going to happen?
>
> I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.
>
> Devin
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>>
>>>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>>>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name.
>>
>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>>
>>
>>> It reads like
>>> insanity, and the justification was terrible.
>>
>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>>
>> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
>> What do you think is going to happen? The exec call inside namedtuple is
>> going to creep out of the module in the wee hours of the night,
>> contaminating other functions and modules while you sleep? Be serious. If
>> you have an actual concrete security vulnerability caused by the use of
>> exec inside namedtuple, or some other bug, then say so. Otherwise, your
>> paranoia is unjustified.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 21:06:26 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 21:06:26 -0500
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbwmHoD6M+7OdSfstw-uC7Bv5pm69j0XTzvy5yCwbhzyzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto
<Juan.Declet-Barreto at mesaaz.gov> wrote:
> I am using Cygwin build of Python2.6. ?This Cygwin install has both a Cygwin gcc (versions 3.4.4 and 4.5.3) and mingw32 (3.4.4), as listed in lib/gcc/.
>
> I also tried the mingw32 shell separately, but I get the same results even when I pass the "-c mingw32" option.
>
> The error is reproduced below:
> ...
 It works for me.  guppy 0.1.9
gcc  4.5.3
Python 2.6.5
cygwin 1.7.9
[I have no idea if it works as intended. I don't use guppy.]


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 21:10:27 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:10:27 -0700
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=eQNYGGk8VYrmgJwFc0yDnZF_O=vK90BtidtNaPKX93w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
> other reason?

That's by design, not because of exec.  The names are supposed to be
actual Python names, things that can used to designate keyword
arguments ("MyTuple(foo=42)") or to retrieve elements using attribute
lookup ("my_tuple.foo").  Using "--" as a name would be a syntax error
in either of those cases.

Cheers,
Ian


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  9 22:25:06 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:25:06 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RspXRtfMk=8R+0tEzmdPNqFL320SrhT=sd_1hLmpJyakg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 11/7/2011 11:32 PM, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
>>>
>>> I got trouble about easy_install command.
>>>
>>> My package:
>>>
>>> ? README.rst
>>> ? setup.py
>>> ? foobar/
>>> ? foobar/__init__.py
>>> ? foobar/data/
>>> ? foobar/data/template.py
>>>
>>> In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
>>> template data file (= not a python module file).
>>
>> Then why is it .py? If it is just data, use .txt. If .py, it should be
>> python code run either directly or imported, though I suppose you could exec
>> it. (I have no idea how renaming would affect your problem.)
>>
>
> I want to use template names according to language,
> such as template.py, template.html, template.rst, template.js, and so on.
>
> My question is "how to include non-python files into egg file?"
> I may change file name suffix from '.py' to '.py.template',
> but it doesn't solve my problem.

I create sample project to explain my trouble.
Sample project source code:
https://bitbucket.org/kwatch/helloworld/src


When 'python setup.py sdist', all files are copied correctly.
https://bitbucket.org/kwatch/helloworld/wiki/python_setup.py_sdist

    $ python setup.py sdist
    ....
    hard linking helloworld/__init__.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld
    hard linking helloworld/foo.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld
    hard linking helloworld/sub/__init__.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld/sub
    hard linking helloworld/sub/bar.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld/sub
    ....


But when 'python setup.py bdist_egg', some files are not copied.
https://bitbucket.org/kwatch/helloworld/wiki/python_setup.py_bdist_egg

    $ python setup.py bdist   # 'helloworld/sub/{__init__,bar}.py' are
not copied!
    ....
    copying build/lib/helloworld/__init__.py ->
build/bdist.macosx-10.4-x86_64/egg/helloworld
    copying build/lib/helloworld/foo.py ->
build/bdist.macosx-10.4-x86_64/egg/helloworld
    ....


Could you help me?

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 22:50:42 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 11:26?am, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
> have no reason to share your faith.

But you're happy to accept the opinions of random posters saying "exec
is evil"? (And it's really not a good idea to be proud of your
ignorance...)

> Like, why can't "--" be a name?

Why would you ever want it to be?

> I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
> seems handwavy).

As opposed to your in-depth critique?

> I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
> "never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
> thinks this is awful.

No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
something for which they're providing no alternative implementation.
You can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have
echoed it, but you won't actually do anything about it.

> I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.

Just as I thought.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 22:52:35 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<4ebafbb7$0$1724$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <8f077318-a150-4ca2-b6e6-5f8dfcd85d8d@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 8:16?am, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> ? ? ?CPython is slow. It's a naive interpreter. ?There's
> almost no optimization during compilation. ?Try PyPy
> or Shed Skin.

Sometimes people need to understand the performance characteristics of
CPython because it's what they have to use. Pointing them at
alternative implementations isn't an answer.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 23:40:25 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 23:40:25 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJoOSLVwhoz81hBeK4XO8aStEGjUW8WR5BSCk7Y02PvvA@mail.gmail.com>

> (And it's really not a good idea to be proud of your
> ignorance...)

I wasn't bragging.

> But you're happy to accept the opinions of random posters saying "exec
> is evil"?
[...]
> As opposed to your in-depth critique?
[...]
> No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
> something for which they're providing no alternative implementation.
> You can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have
> echoed it, but you won't actually do anything about it.

I said it was bad because I found it difficult to read and it was
"weird". I also mentioned that it's conceivable that it has security
flaws, but that's not as big a deal. I believe I also said that it was
bad because it resulted in """arbitrary""" limitations in
functionality. So, yes, I did say why it's bad, and it's not just
because other people say so. My reasons are weak, but that's a
different story.

I also mentioned the alternative implementation, which uses a dict.
There was even already a patch submitted to make namedtuple work this
way, so I don't think I had to be too specific. R. Hettinger rejected
this patch, which was what I was referring to when I was referring to
handwaviness.

So, no.

> Just as I thought.

Woo condescension.

Devin

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:50 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 11:26?am, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
>> have no reason to share your faith.
>
> But you're happy to accept the opinions of random posters saying "exec
> is evil"? (And it's really not a good idea to be proud of your
> ignorance...)
>
>> Like, why can't "--" be a name?
>
> Why would you ever want it to be?
>
>> I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
>> seems handwavy).
>
> As opposed to your in-depth critique?
>
>> I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
>> "never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
>> thinks this is awful.
>
> No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
> something for which they're providing no alternative implementation.
> You can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have
> echoed it, but you won't actually do anything about it.
>
>> I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.
>
> Just as I thought.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From paulalgray71 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 00:29:56 2011
From: paulalgray71 at gmail.com (paula gray)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:29:56 -0500
Subject: mailing list
Message-ID: <CAOxGtsaRY704J+WU6waKcLwW1WUjAAw3+RNOAcjTbAJoZch3MA@mail.gmail.com>


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From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 00:32:24 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:32:24 +1100
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrKtnrC0UPOvLUATru8x6PWU9hHbTTRPizJnX=ijmutVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> I want to use template names according to language,
> such as template.py, template.html, template.rst, template.js, and so on.
>

You may have another problem here. Everyone and everything that looks
at these will expect them to be Python, HTML, etc files. If they're
not, it may cause confusion in other ways.

Can you switch it around, py.template and html.template etc?

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 02:35:48 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 07:35:48 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ebb7ed3$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:50:42 -0800, alex23 wrote:

>> I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying "never EVER use
>> exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that thinks this is
>> awful.
> 
> No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
> something for which they're providing no alternative implementation. You
> can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have echoed
> it, but you won't actually do anything about it.

In fairness there are alternative implementations. They are not identical 
to the version using exec. There is at least one use-case for *not* using 
exec, even at the cost of functionality: a restricted Python environment 
without exec.

On the other hand, a restricted Python without exec is not actually 
Python.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 02:48:49 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 07:48:49 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
> 
> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
> have no reason to share your faith.

That's fine.

I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could be 
an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for 
"Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some fly-by 
Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the standard library 
when no-one was looking :)

The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should tell 
you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable technique. 
That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are still 
people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax -- 
controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid 
certain idioms.


Are you familiar with the idea of "code smell"?

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/05/code-smells.html
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html

I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't mean 
it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before accepting 
it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use exec" and 
"You SHOULD NOT use exec".

See RFC 2119 if you are unclear on the difference:

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt



>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
> 
> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out what's
> going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the heck
> certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going on is
> otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be found 
in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out parts of the 
code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.

Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often being 
harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are hard too.



> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on the
> input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some other
> reason?

Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so 
namedtuple doesn't let you try:

t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
print(t.foo)
print(t.--)
print(t.bar)




-- 
Steven


From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 03:35:06 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:35:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: dao 0.7.4 released
Message-ID: <20d8f55c-6803-4574-92c8-1704b4918b99@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

----------------------------
What's new in dao 0.7.4?
----------------------------

*Release date:  2011-11-10

* new in code:
  * quasiquote, unquote, unquote_slicing is implemented.
  * directly evaluate sexpression in solver
  * some builtins for define, set and get global, outer and local var
  * lisp style macro: expand and eval on UserMacro


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 03:51:10 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:51:10 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could be
> an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some fly-by
> Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the standard library
> when no-one was looking :)

Alright, I know *something* about him. I knew he was a core developer,
and that he was responsible for namedtuple. I also discovered (when I
looked up his activestate profile) some other stuff he wrote. I don't
really know anything about him outside of that -- i.e. I have no idea
what parts of Python he's contributed things to in the past that could
make me go, "oh, wow, _he_ did that?" and so on. I don't really feel
like a few minutes research would give me the right feel, it generally
has to come up organically.

Anyway, if we step back, for a trustworthy developer who wrote
something seemingly-crazy, I should be willing to suspend judgement
until I see the relevant facts about something that the developer
might have and I don't. But he did give the facts,
( http://bugs.python.org/issue3974 again) , and I'm not convinced.

Things can go terribly wrong when abusing exec e.g.
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/bugs/568206 . That
shouldn't ever happen with a function such as this. exec opens doors
that should not be opened without a really good reason, and those
reasons don't strike me that way.

> The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should tell
> you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable technique.

I've seen core developers rail against the namedtuple source code. In
fairness, I don't believe exec was the subject of the rant --
nonetheless its presence isn't evidence of general support, and even
if it were, my tastes have always differed from that of the core
developers.

> That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are still
> people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax --
> controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid
> certain idioms.

I think there's somewhat a difference in magnitude of objections
between using exec as a hacked-together macro system, and using "x if
flag else y" when if statements would do.

If the exec trick is reasonable, we should normalize it in the form of
a real, useful macro system, that can protect us against exec's many
flaws (code injection, accidental syntax errors, etc.) and tell future
programmers how to do this safely and in a semi-approvable way.

> I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't mean
> it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before accepting
> it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use exec" and
> "You SHOULD NOT use exec".

Do I really need a second look? I see exec, I wonder what it's doing.
It isn't doing anything that couldn't be done subjectively better with
e.g. a dict, so I disapprove of the usage of exec.

> There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be found
> in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out parts of the
> code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.

There's more overhead going back and forth to the template, and
there's related things that I can't be sure are because of exec or
because of design decisions, etc.  It makes code reading more
challenging, even if it's still possible. That said, sure, some of
these are problems with whatever else he's done.

> Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often being
> harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are hard too.

And on the other other hand, Python lacks explicit support for both
pointers and code generation (unless you count strings and ctypes).

> Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> namedtuple doesn't let you try:
>
> t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> print(t.foo)
> print(t.--)
> print(t.bar)

'--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
namedtuple in certain ways?

Devin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>>
>> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
>> have no reason to share your faith.
>
> That's fine.
>
> I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could be
> an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some fly-by
> Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the standard library
> when no-one was looking :)
>
> The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should tell
> you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable technique.
> That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are still
> people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax --
> controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid
> certain idioms.
>
>
> Are you familiar with the idea of "code smell"?
>
> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/05/code-smells.html
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html
>
> I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't mean
> it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before accepting
> it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use exec" and
> "You SHOULD NOT use exec".
>
> See RFC 2119 if you are unclear on the difference:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
>
>
>
>>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>>
>> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out what's
>> going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the heck
>> certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going on is
>> otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
>> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
>
> There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be found
> in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out parts of the
> code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.
>
> Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often being
> harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are hard too.
>
>
>
>> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on the
>> input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some other
>> reason?
>
> Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> namedtuple doesn't let you try:
>
> t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> print(t.foo)
> print(t.--)
> print(t.bar)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov 10 04:08:12 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Hey. I don't know the details, but your setup.py needs to use either the 'package_data' or the 'data_files' entry in the dict you pass to setup. These can specify files you want included in the sdist which aren't package files.

There are many complications with using them though. One of them in particular (I don't remember which one) installs the files you specify in a different place depending on whether the user is installing the sdist from local files (python setup.py install) or using pip, so be sure to test both ways. 


From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov 10 04:08:12 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Hey. I don't know the details, but your setup.py needs to use either the 'package_data' or the 'data_files' entry in the dict you pass to setup. These can specify files you want included in the sdist which aren't package files.

There are many complications with using them though. One of them in particular (I don't remember which one) installs the files you specify in a different place depending on whether the user is installing the sdist from local files (python setup.py install) or using pip, so be sure to test both ways. 


From baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 05:51:15 2011
From: baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com (Baptiste Lepilleur)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:51:15 +0100
Subject: How to derive from datetime.timezone class?
Message-ID: <CAGyWicAZ2v6pZ94JGRaaSScUd2UcA_YZ-b3q6E_3kxM7-7bdBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I want to sub-class the datetime.timezone class, but when I derive from
datetime.timezone I get an error message "TypeError: type
'datetime.timezone' is not an acceptable base type".

Why do I get this error? Is there something specific to do to avoid it?

Below is an example of code:

Python 3.2.2 (default, Sep  4 2011, 09:51:08) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import datetime
>>> datetime.timezone
<class 'datetime.timezone'>
>>> class Utc(datetime.timezone):
...     pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: type 'datetime.timezone' is not an acceptable base type

Baptiste.
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 08:15:39 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:15:39 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
Message-ID: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings:

As you know, there are several kinds of relationships between classes in
the UML -- dependency, association, aggregation, composition.
Q1. Is there any article or code example on its implementation in python?
Q2. For example, in composition model, the container object may be
responsible for the handling of embedded objects' lifecycle. What is the
python pattern of such implementation?
would it be adding __del__ to the container class to del embedded objects
or something else?

Thanks!
Biao
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From gheskett at wdtv.com  Thu Nov 10 08:20:54 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:20:54 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201111100820.54520.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:13:13 AM Devin Jeanpierre did opine:

> > I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could
> > be an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> > "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some
> > fly-by Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the
> > standard library when no-one was looking :)
> 
> Alright, I know *something* about him. I knew he was a core developer,
> and that he was responsible for namedtuple. I also discovered (when I
> looked up his activestate profile) some other stuff he wrote. I don't
> really know anything about him outside of that -- i.e. I have no idea
> what parts of Python he's contributed things to in the past that could
> make me go, "oh, wow, _he_ did that?" and so on. I don't really feel
> like a few minutes research would give me the right feel, it generally
> has to come up organically.
> 
> Anyway, if we step back, for a trustworthy developer who wrote
> something seemingly-crazy, I should be willing to suspend judgement
> until I see the relevant facts about something that the developer
> might have and I don't. But he did give the facts,
> ( http://bugs.python.org/issue3974 again) , and I'm not convinced.
> 
> Things can go terribly wrong when abusing exec e.g.
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/bugs/568206 . That
> shouldn't ever happen with a function such as this. exec opens doors
> that should not be opened without a really good reason, and those
> reasons don't strike me that way.
 
If, in the sense that this python 'exec' essentially duplicates the bash 
version, then I have found it quite useful, it was taught to me several 
years ago by another teacher who was a long time Solaris fan, and if it 
were to go away, I have several bash scripts running here right now that 
would require major re-writes.

> > The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should
> > tell you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable
> > technique.

Well, its certainly not a new concept.  All the major 'shell interpreters' 
have it, why not python?

> I've seen core developers rail against the namedtuple source code. In
> fairness, I don't believe exec was the subject of the rant --
> nonetheless its presence isn't evidence of general support, and even
> if it were, my tastes have always differed from that of the core
> developers.
> 
> > That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are
> > still people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax --
> > controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid
> > certain idioms.
> 
> I think there's somewhat a difference in magnitude of objections
> between using exec as a hacked-together macro system, and using "x if
> flag else y" when if statements would do.
> 
> If the exec trick is reasonable, we should normalize it in the form of
> a real, useful macro system, that can protect us against exec's many
> flaws (code injection, accidental syntax errors, etc.) and tell future
> programmers how to do this safely and in a semi-approvable way.
> 
> > I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't
> > mean it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before
> > accepting it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use
> > exec" and "You SHOULD NOT use exec".
> 
> Do I really need a second look? I see exec, I wonder what it's doing.
> It isn't doing anything that couldn't be done subjectively better with
> e.g. a dict, so I disapprove of the usage of exec.
> 
> > There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be
> > found in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out
> > parts of the code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.
> 
> There's more overhead going back and forth to the template, and
> there's related things that I can't be sure are because of exec or
> because of design decisions, etc.  It makes code reading more
> challenging, even if it's still possible. That said, sure, some of
> these are problems with whatever else he's done.
> 
> > Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often
> > being harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are
> > hard too.
> 
> And on the other other hand, Python lacks explicit support for both
> pointers and code generation (unless you count strings and ctypes).
> 
> > Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> > namedtuple doesn't let you try:
> > 
> > t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> > print(t.foo)
> > print(t.--)
> > print(t.bar)
> 
> '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
> attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
> setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
> limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
> prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
> this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
> namedtuple in certain ways?
> 
> Devin
> 
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> 
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> >>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is
> >>> a well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is
> >>> doing.
> >> 
> >> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so
> >> I have no reason to share your faith.
> > 
> > That's fine.
> > 
> > I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could
> > be an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> > "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some
> > fly-by Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the
> > standard library when no-one was looking :)
> > 
> > The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should
> > tell you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable
> > technique. That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But
> > there are still people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator
> > syntax -- controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason
> > to avoid certain idioms.
> > 
> > 
> > Are you familiar with the idea of "code smell"?
> > 
> > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/05/code-smells.html
> > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html
> > 
> > I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't
> > mean it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before
> > accepting it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use
> > exec" and "You SHOULD NOT use exec".
> > 
> > See RFC 2119 if you are unclear on the difference:
> > 
> > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
> > 
> >>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
> >> 
> >> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> >> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> >> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> >> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a
> >> normal approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
> > 
> > There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be
> > found in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out
> > parts of the code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.
> > 
> > Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often
> > being harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are
> > hard too.
> > 
> >> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> >> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there
> >> some other reason?
> > 
> > Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> > namedtuple doesn't let you try:
> > 
> > t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> > print(t.foo)
> > print(t.--)
> > print(t.bar)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Steven
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
>Ever heard of .cshrc?
That's a city in Bosnia.  Right?
(Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands.)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 08:26:37 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:26:37 +1100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
> For example, in composition model, the container object may be responsible
> for the handling of embedded objects' lifecycle. What is the python pattern
> of such implementation?

Here's an example:

class Test(object):
  def __init__(self):
    self.lst=[1,2,3]
    self.map={"foo":12,"bar":34}

This is a container that has a list and a dictionary in it. When an
instance of the container is destroyed, its list and dictionary will
be destroyed too (assuming nobody's made other references to them).
You don't need to code anything explicitly for that.

Chris Angelico


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 08:58:41 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:58:41 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

Firstly thanks for your quick reply.

1. Your code example gives a point, but i may not reach my question yet,
maybe because i did not make myself understood yet. Here is a more detail
example question.

I have a classes sets described by UML, which could be refered as Cls_A,
Cls_B, CLs_C, Cls_D, Cls_E. There are four relationship between
them--dependency, association, aggregation, composition. What i need to do
is define all of the classes by python, and,of course, the class definition
should describe there relationship correctly.
For example, implement composition relationship between Cls_A and Cls_B,
which may means a instance of Cls_B is created and destroyed by a Cls_A
instance, My code may be like this(not sure since i am not quite familiar
with python yet):

Cls_a:
    def __init__(self):
        self.at1 = 1

Cls_b:
    def __init__(self):
        self.com1 = Cls_a()
    def __del__(self):
        del self.com1
Is it a right implementation for composition?

and i need also do other relationship definition into class, like
dependency, association, aggregation...

Is there any article or code example on the relationships implementation?


Thanks!
Biao


2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > For example, in composition model, the container object may be
> responsible
> > for the handling of embedded objects' lifecycle. What is the python
> pattern
> > of such implementation?
>
> Here's an example:
>
> class Test(object):
>  def __init__(self):
>    self.lst=[1,2,3]
>    self.map={"foo":12,"bar":34}
>
> This is a container that has a list and a dictionary in it. When an
> instance of the container is destroyed, its list and dictionary will
> be destroyed too (assuming nobody's made other references to them).
> You don't need to code anything explicitly for that.
>
> Chris Angelico
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:09:07 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:09:07 +1100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cls_a:
> ? ? def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.at1 = 1
> Cls_b:
> ? ? def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.com1 = Cls_a()
> ? ? def __del__(self):
> ? ? ? ? del self.com1
> Is it a right implementation for composition?

Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python (at
least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the Cls_b is.

Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much simpler:
everything's an object, and you have references to that object. A
named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an object
is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it references
lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those objects
get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with when you
grok it.

ChrisA


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:25:35 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:25:35 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Cls_a:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.at1 = 1
> > Cls_b:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
> >     def __del__(self):
> >         del self.com1
> > Is it a right implementation for composition?
>
> Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python (at
> least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
> reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
> reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the Cls_b is.
>
> Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much simpler:
> everything's an object, and you have references to that object. A
> named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an object
> is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it references
> lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those objects
> get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
> difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with when you
> grok it.
>

Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and aggregation in
my real word, and my application really care this since it is trying to
simulate this real world model, so my system should track this
difference accurately,
otherwise the system may not work well.

For example,
a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation. My app
must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body instance, if
the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
 b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still can
live even the auto is dead."

Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living objects.



> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:31:36 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:31:36 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/10 Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>

>
>
> 2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Cls_a:
>> >     def __init__(self):
>> >         self.at1 = 1
>> > Cls_b:
>> >     def __init__(self):
>> >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
>> >     def __del__(self):
>> >         del self.com1
>> > Is it a right implementation for composition?
>>
>> Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python (at
>> least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
>> reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
>> reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the Cls_b is.
>>
>> Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much simpler:
>> everything's an object, and you have references to that object. A
>> named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an object
>> is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it references
>> lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those objects
>> get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
>> difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with when you
>> grok it.
>>
>
> Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and aggregation in
> my real word, and my application really care this since it is trying to
> simulate this real world model, so my system should track this difference accurately,
> otherwise the system may not work well.
>
> For example,
> a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation. My
> app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body instance,
> if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
>  b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still can
> live even the auto is dead."
>
> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living objects.
>
So lifecycle should be ensured by class definition. I originally thought
this topic would be talked somewhere since many python OOP designer should
have met this, or am i wrong on some point?


>
>
>> ChrisA
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From iamforufriends at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:35:34 2011
From: iamforufriends at gmail.com (sweet girl)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 06:35:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: she want a boy friend for dating
Message-ID: <b3ff60c0-70e8-4d6b-82f0-1b8b0249b8e5@k38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

she want a boy friend for dating

http://alturl.com/b5ikf

http://alturl.com/b5ikf

http://alturl.com/b5ikf

http://alturl.com/b5ikf


From vs at it.uu.se  Thu Nov 10 09:47:43 2011
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:47:43 +0100
Subject: Agent-based modeling
Message-ID: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>

Python seems like a good language to use for agent-based modeling. However, 
before starting to work on a Python package for this, I would be very interested 
in knowing about any existing Python code for agent-based modeling.

--V
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 10:16:14 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:16:14 +0800
Subject: Agent-based modeling
In-Reply-To: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>
References: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDpXktGZy4mR+yvxPtAk22OgjAzdfdbavyhrneuBAFoAUQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/10 Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se>

>  Python seems like a good language to use for agent-based modeling.
> However, before starting to work on a Python package for this, I would be
> very interested in knowing about any existing Python code for agent-based
> modeling.
>

I am assuming you are talking about the pattern design -- agent pattern,
right?


>
>
> --V
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 10:44:29 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:44:29 +0000
Subject: simple import hook
Message-ID: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>

So I would really like to accomplish the following:
run a program normally and keep track of all the imports that were 
actually done.

I studied the PEP 302, but I'm still a bit confused about how to do it.

I thought that instead of implementing everything I could just record 
the request
and then delegate to the "imp" module, so I did this:

class MyLoader(object):
     """
     Loader object
     """

     def __init__(self):
         self.loaded = set()

     def find_module(self, module_name, package=None):
         print("requesting %s" % module_name)
         self.loaded.add(module_name)
         return self

     def load_module(self, fullname):
         #XXX: the find_module is actually doing nothing, since
         # everything is delegated to the "imp" module
         fp, pathname, stuff = imp.find_module(fullname)
         imp.load_module(fullname, fp, pathname, stuff)

     myl = MyLoader()
     sys.meta_path.append(myl)
     try:
         import random
         import os
         print(random.random())



Which doesn't work, and very strangely it doesn't even look deterministic!
Sometimes it stops at first import sometimes it's able to do a few of them.
How can that be?

And how could I do solve my problem?


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Thu Nov 10 11:09:08 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:09:08 +0000
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>

On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 22:25 +0800, Jerry Zhang wrote:
> 
> 
> 2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>         On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang
>         <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
>         > Cls_a:
>         >     def __init__(self):
>         >         self.at1 = 1
>         > Cls_b:
>         >     def __init__(self):
>         >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
>         >     def __del__(self):
>         >         del self.com1
>         > Is it a right implementation for composition?
>         
>         
>         Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python
>         (at
>         least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
>         reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
>         reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the
>         Cls_b is.
>         
>         Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much
>         simpler:
>         everything's an object, and you have references to that
>         object. A
>         named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an
>         object
>         is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it
>         references
>         lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those
>         objects
>         get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
>         difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with
>         when you
>         grok it.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
> aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this since
> it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system should
> track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may not work
> well. 

You might want to look into weak references:
http://docs.python.org/library/weakref.html

Although I agree with Chris that it sounds like your code might be
easier with a change of perspective (I've not done much UML, but the way
you're describing things sounds like a java-ish way of looking at it to
me)

> For example, 
> a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
> My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
> instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
>  b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still
> can live even the auto is dead."

That behaviour isn't really hard-coded as part of the language in
python, as it's not required for memory management in the same way it
would be in C++ or langauges without GCs.

As long as no objects other than body objects hold a reference to arm
objects then the arm object will be deleted.

For The tyre object to be deleted when the auto object is deleted, there
would have to be no references left to the tyre object. If there aren't
any references then you can't know if it exists or not anyway, so the
distinction isn't useful.

> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
> objects. 

The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.




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From vs at it.uu.se  Thu Nov 10 12:15:37 2011
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:15:37 +0100
Subject: Agent-based modeling
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDpXktGZy4mR+yvxPtAk22OgjAzdfdbavyhrneuBAFoAUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>
	<CANVwdDpXktGZy4mR+yvxPtAk22OgjAzdfdbavyhrneuBAFoAUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC06B9.6030201@it.uu.se>

On 10-Nov-2011 16:16, Jerry Zhang wrote:
>
>
> 2011/11/10 Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se <mailto:vs at it.uu.se>>
>
>     Python seems like a good language to use for agent-based modeling.
>     However, before starting to work on a Python package for this, I would be
>     very interested in knowing about any existing Python code for agent-based
>     modeling.
>
>
> I am assuming you are talking about the pattern design -- agent pattern, right?
>
>
>
>     --V
>
>     --
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
Sorry Jerry if my email was unclear.

I am referring to agent-based modeling as defined at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent-based_model
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From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Nov 10 12:23:15 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:23:15 +0100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
Message-ID: <j9h1a3$s1$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 10.11.2011 17:09, schrieb Tim Wintle:
>> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
>> objects. 
> 
> The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
> an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
> delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.

That's not entirely correct. In fact you *CAN* delete references to
objects that are stored in ZODB. An unreferenced object is no longer
accessible from future transactions. The object is only available from
the transaction history log and thus still stored in the database file
until the ZODB is packed. Once the ZODB is packed, all unreferenced
objects are gone for good.

ZODB is much more than a simple pickle jar. It's a transparent and
poweful object database that behaves like an ordinary tree of Python
objects.



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 12:46:07 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:46:07 +0000
Subject: simple import hook
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC0DDF.9000708@gmail.com>

On 11/10/2011 05:02 PM, Eric Snow wrote:
>
> Yeah, I'm working on a reference for imports in Python.  They're just
> a little too mysterious relative to the rest of the language.  But
> it's not too helpful yet.  In the meantime...
Yes it's quite mysterious, and it's actually not as hard as it looks..
Anyway I'm glad to say that I reached what I basically wanted.

This script actually compiles the code and runs it, reporting the 
imports done in the end.
Any suggestion is still welcome :)

"""
This script is used to analyse the imports which are actually being done
"""
import argparse
import os
import sys

class CollectImports(object):
     """
     Loader object
     """

     def __init__(self):
         self.loaded = set()

     def __str__(self):
         return str(self.loaded)

     def find_module(self, module_name, package=None):
         print("requesting %s" % module_name)
         self.loaded.add(module_name)


if __name__ == '__main__':
     parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description='analyse the imports 
made')
     parser.add_argument('script')
     parser.add_argument('arguments', nargs='*')

     ns = parser.parse_args()

     progname = ns.script
     sys.path.insert(0, os.path.dirname(progname))

     cl = CollectImports()
     # TODO: maybe we can create a with clause also for this thing
     sys.meta_path.append(cl)

     # TODO: catch the exit signal and present the output
     code = compile(open(progname).read(), progname, 'exec')
     exec(code)
     print("imports done: %s" % str(cl))

> That _is_ pretty strange.
>
> After what I recommended above, are you still getting the wierdness?
> It could just be a side-effect of your use of the imp functions. in
> load_module(), so getting rid of it would help.
>
> What version of Python are you using?  If not 2.7 or 3.2, do you get
> the same problem when you run the code under one of those latest
> versions?
>
> Even when the number of imports is different, are they always in the
> same order?  Highly unlikely, but if you say no then this is extra
> fishy.
>

It was python 2.7 on Arch-linux, but thanks to your suggestions 
everything was actually fixed..


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:06:18 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:06:18 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Tim Wintle <tim.wintle at teamrubber.com>

> On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 22:25 +0800, Jerry Zhang wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
> >         On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang
> >         <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
> >         > Cls_a:
> >         >     def __init__(self):
> >         >         self.at1 = 1
> >         > Cls_b:
> >         >     def __init__(self):
> >         >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
> >         >     def __del__(self):
> >         >         del self.com1
> >         > Is it a right implementation for composition?
> >
> >
> >         Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python
> >         (at
> >         least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
> >         reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
> >         reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the
> >         Cls_b is.
> >
> >         Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much
> >         simpler:
> >         everything's an object, and you have references to that
> >         object. A
> >         named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an
> >         object
> >         is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it
> >         references
> >         lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those
> >         objects
> >         get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
> >         difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with
> >         when you
> >         grok it.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
> > aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this since
> > it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system should
> > track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may not work
> > well.
>
> You might want to look into weak references:
> http://docs.python.org/library/weakref.html
>
> Although I agree with Chris that it sounds like your code might be
> easier with a change of perspective (I've not done much UML, but the way
> you're describing things sounds like a java-ish way of looking at it to
> me)
>
> > For example,
> > a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
> > My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
> > instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
> >  b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still
> > can live even the auto is dead."
>
> That behaviour isn't really hard-coded as part of the language in
> python, as it's not required for memory management in the same way it
> would be in C++ or langauges without GCs.
>
> As long as no objects other than body objects hold a reference to arm
> objects then the arm object will be deleted.
>
> For The tyre object to be deleted when the auto object is deleted, there
> would have to be no references left to the tyre object. If there aren't
> any references then you can't know if it exists or not anyway, so the
> distinction isn't useful.
>

I just did an example code to describe what i am looking for.
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
# ...

class Head:
    def __init__(self):
        self.size = 5

class Hat:
    def __init__(self):
        self.color = red
    def took_on(self, body):
        self.body = body
    def took_off(self, body):
        del self.body

class Body:
    def __init__(self):
        self.head = Head()
    def take_on_hat(self, hat):
        self.hat = hat
        hat.take_on(self)
    def take_off_hat(self):
        hat.take_off(self)
        del self.hat
    def go_to_heaven(self):
        take_off_hat(self)
        del self.head
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

In this example, Head and body are COMPOSITION, which means
a. A head only live with one body, it can not live with other body. It can
not even live without body
b. If the body go to die, the head also go to die.

Body and Hat are aggregation, which means
a. A hat live isolate with body, its life circle is isolate
b. A hat only live with one body at a specific time, it can not live with
two body(association would be more than one)

So when the body die, the clean dead should include take_off Hat and del
Head, otherwise, the code definition is not prciselly describing the
relationship, which may cause a mess system, for example, a body has dead,
but one hat is still associated with a unreferenced body.
A point on this issue, maybe python is smart that the take_off_hat(self) is
not needed in go_to_heaven() method(i am not sure yet), but the del
self.head is sure needed, otherwise, we will have a no_body_head in our
ZODB, that is extremely horrible, right?

All of these points one, the four kinds of class relationship in UML
precisely describe the real word, if the implementation is not precisely,
you will have unexpected results.
Of course, python may be smart to achieve such goal with less effort, that
is why i am asking for a code example for all of the four relationships.

>
> > Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
> > objects.
>
> The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
> an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
> delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.
>
>
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:13:37 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:13:37 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <j9h1a3$s1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop> <j9h1a3$s1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDob6BOsA--8VoVrdCJLHMC49QV05SOeduGFkgnFFS+=aA@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de>

> Am 10.11.2011 17:09, schrieb Tim Wintle:
> >> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
> >> objects.
> >
> > The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
> > an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
> > delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.
>
> That's not entirely correct. In fact you *CAN* delete references to
> objects that are stored in ZODB. An unreferenced object is no longer
> accessible from future transactions. The object is only available from
> the transaction history log and thus still stored in the database file
> until the ZODB is packed. Once the ZODB is packed, all unreferenced
> objects are gone for good.
>
> ZODB is much more than a simple pickle jar. It's a transparent and
> poweful object database that behaves like an ordinary tree of Python
> objects.
>
>
I am verifying the ZODB solution, not clear yet, anyway, your points
regarding this sounds reasonable to me.
i am almost sure the python and ZODB designer has already did a good job to
make us handle such case easily, all i am trying to do is find the right
path.

Thanks a lot.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From numansenm at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:25:41 2011
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Nov 10 13:43:32 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:43:32 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>

Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

Certainly it's a Python pattern -- it's what you do to dynamically 
generate code.


> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
> other reason?

'--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and 
everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.


 > '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
 > attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
 > setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
 > limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
 > prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
 > this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
 > namedtuple in certain ways?

So you think

     somevar = getattr(my_named_tuple, '--')

is more readable than

     somevar = my_named_tuple.spam

?

~Ethan~


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:56:25 2011
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (tkpmep at hotmail.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Working with databases (ODBC and ORMs) in Python 3.2
Message-ID: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

We are in the process of trying to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.2
with a view to making a 5-10 year commitment to the right platform,
and would appreciate some guidance on how best to connect to SQL
databases in 3.2. ceODBC 2.01 provides an ODBC driver for Python 3.2,
does anyone have experience using it? Also, are there any ORMs (object
relational mapper)s that work well with 3,2?

Thanks in advance

Thomas Philips


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 10 14:25:40 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:25:40 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9h8fp$ain$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2011 3:51 AM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
>> namedtuple doesn't let you try:
>>
>> t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
>> print(t.foo)
>> print(t.--)
>> print(t.bar)
>
> '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
> attribute setting (e.g. function objects).

ob.-- is not valid Python because '--' is not a name.

 > Of course, you need to use setattr() and getattr().

I consider the fact that CPython's setattr accepts non-name strings to 
be a bit of a bug. Or if you will, leniency for speed. (A unicode name 
check in Py3 would be much more expensive than an ascii name check in 
Py2.) I would consider it legitimate for another implementation to only 
accept names and to use a specialized name_dict for attribute dictionaries.

So I consider it quite legitimate for namedtuple to requires real names 
for the fields. The whole point is to allow ob.name access to tuple 
members. Someone who plans to use set/getattr with arbitrary strings 
should just use a dict instead of a tuple.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Nov 10 14:32:24 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:32:24 -0500
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
	<CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just did an example code to describe what i am looking for.
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> # ...
>
> class Head:
> ??? def __init__(self):
> ??????? self.size = 5
>
> class Hat:
> ??? def __init__(self):
> ??????? self.color = red
> ??? def took_on(self, body):
> ??????? self.body = body
> ??? def took_off(self, body):
> ??????? del self.body
>
> class Body:
> ??? def __init__(self):
> ??????? self.head = Head()
> ??? def take_on_hat(self, hat):
> ??????? self.hat = hat
> ??????? hat.take_on(self)
> ??? def take_off_hat(self):
> ??????? hat.take_off(self)
> ??????? del self.hat
> ??? def go_to_heaven(self):
> ??????? take_off_hat(self)
> ??????? del self.head
> /*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
>
> In this example, Head and body are COMPOSITION, which means
> a. A head only live with one body, it can not live with other body. It can
> not even live without body
> b. If the body go to die, the head also go to die.
>
> Body and Hat are aggregation, which means
> a. A hat live isolate with body, its life circle is isolate
> b. A hat only live with one body at a specific time, it can not live with
> two body(association would be more than one)
>
> So when the body die, the clean dead should include take_off Hat and del
> Head, otherwise, the code definition is not prciselly describing the
> relationship, which may cause a mess system, for example, a body has dead,
> but one hat is still associated with a unreferenced body.
> A point on this issue, maybe python is smart that the take_off_hat(self) is
> not needed in go_to_heaven() method(i am not sure yet), but the del
> self.head is sure needed, otherwise, we will have a no_body_head in our
> ZODB, that is extremely horrible, right?
>
> All of these points one, the four kinds of class relationship in UML
> precisely describe the real word, if the implementation is not precisely,
> you will have unexpected results.
> Of course, python may be smart to achieve such goal with less effort, that
> is why i am asking for a code example for all of the four relationships.

You're still misunderstanding Python's object model. del does NOT
delete an object. It deletes a name. The only way for an object to be
deleted is for it to be inaccessible (there are no references to it,
or there are no reachable references to it).
>>> foo = object()
>>> bar = foo
>>> foo
<object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>> bar
<object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>> del foo
>>> bar
<object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>> foo

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in <module>
    foo
NameError: name 'foo' is not defined


There is no way to force the go_to_heaven method to delete the head
unless you can make sure that all other references to the head are
weak references. If you need strictly-enforced relationships, Python
is probably not the right language for the job- you'll be better off
with C++ or Java.


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Thu Nov 10 14:35:29 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:35:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<4ebafbb7$0$1724$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9F9975FB1BD5FOKB@88.198.244.100>

John Nagle wrote:

> On 11/7/2011 1:00 PM, OKB (not okblacke) wrote:
>>           I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):
> 
>      CPython is slow. It's a naive interpreter.  There's
> almost no optimization during compilation.  Try PyPy
> or Shed Skin.

    	PyPy is interesting, but I use various libraries that make use of C 
extension modules.  I'm not going to compile them all myself, which is 
apparently what I would need to do for PyPy.  PyPy or other 
implementations won't work for me unless they're completely drop-in 
replacements for the interpreter.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 10 14:38:58 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:58 -0500
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9h98n$i56$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2011 9:31 AM, Jerry Zhang wrote:

>     Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
>     aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this
>     since it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system
>     should track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may
>     not work well.
>
>     For example,
>     a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
>     My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
>     instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.

Create the arm as a private member '_arm' of body and make sure that no 
method of body passes out a reference to the arm. (In Python, outside 
code can still grab a reference to the private attribute, but that is a 
coding bug.)

I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are 
based on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the 
composition does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm transplants.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Nov 10 15:31:23 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:31:23 -0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>	<CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC349B.5030209@stoneleaf.us>

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> You're still misunderstanding Python's object model. del does NOT
> delete an object. It deletes a name. The only way for an object to be
> deleted is for it to be inaccessible (there are no references to it,
> or there are no reachable references to it).
>>>> foo = object()
>>>> bar = foo
>>>> foo
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>>> del foo
>>>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>>> foo
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in <module>
>     foo
> NameError: name 'foo' is not defined
> 
> 
> There is no way to force the go_to_heaven method to delete the head
> unless you can make sure that all other references to the head are
> weak references. If you need strictly-enforced relationships, Python
> is probably not the right language for the job- you'll be better off
> with C++ or Java.

Having said all that, you could do something like:

class BodyPart(object):
     _alive = True
     def __nonzero__(self):
         return self._alive
     def die(self):
         self._alive = False

class Head(BodyPart):
     "will contain things like Brain, Eyes, etc"
     size = 5

class Body(BodyPart):
     def __init__(self):
         self._head = Head()
     def go_to_heaven(self):
         self._head.die()
         self.die()

John_Doe = Body()

if John_Doe:
     print "John Doe is alive!"
John_Doe.go_to_heaven()
if John_Doe:
     print "uh oh - something wrong"
else:
     print "John Doe is no longer with us"
     print "and his head is %s" % ('alive' if John_Doe._head else 'dead')


From nathan.alexander.rice at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 15:35:22 2011
From: nathan.alexander.rice at gmail.com (Nathan Rice)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:35:22 -0500
Subject: Working with databases (ODBC and ORMs) in Python 3.2
In-Reply-To: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFbRm+KCP2H=4Q==DOdOULH5dTDZn=VvFwijuW7mTq37ey02Q@mail.gmail.com>

For now, get started in Python 2.7.  Write code with an eye to 3.x
portability, and you will be fine.  You probably won't see 3.x
overtake 2.x for at least 3-4 years, and a decent amount of stuff is
still 2.x only.  Since it sounds like you are a windows/net shop, go
ahead and use Iron Python.

SQL Alchemy is your one stop shop.  It is basically 3.x compatible,
but see my previous statement about 3.x.  I haven't used SQL Alchemy
with SQL Server but honestly, SQL Alchemy is THE showcase python
library -- I doubt you will run into any issues.  Just google
"sqlalchemy sql server", I'm sure there's a blog post explaining the
specifics in detail.

Nathan

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:56 PM, tkpmep at hotmail.com <tkpmep at hotmail.com> wrote:
> We are in the process of trying to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.2
> with a view to making a 5-10 year commitment to the right platform,
> and would appreciate some guidance on how best to connect to SQL
> databases in 3.2. ceODBC 2.01 provides an ODBC driver for Python 3.2,
> does anyone have experience using it? Also, are there any ORMs (object
> relational mapper)s that work well with 3,2?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Thomas Philips
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 15:37:05 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:37:05 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>

> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.

The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is
because they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and
that string is passed to exec().

So really, does it have "nothing" to do with exec? Or does your
argument eventually boil down to the use of exec?

> is more readable than

Of course not. I do, however, think that it's conceivable that I'd
want to key a namedtuple by an invalid identifier, and to do that,
yes, I'd need to use getattr().

Devin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>>
>> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
>> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
>> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
>> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
>> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
>
> Certainly it's a Python pattern -- it's what you do to dynamically generate
> code.
>
>
>> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
>> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
>> other reason?
>
> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.
>
>
>> '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
>> attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
>> setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
>> limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
>> prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
>> this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
>> namedtuple in certain ways?
>
> So you think
>
> ? ?somevar = getattr(my_named_tuple, '--')
>
> is more readable than
>
> ? ?somevar = my_named_tuple.spam
>
> ?
>
> ~Ethan~
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Thu Nov 10 15:38:53 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:38:53 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
References: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rt6FxvFO63cu1Y9PMVzpTrCm-NOO1sPwJi+EA3PPxXQzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:
> Hey. I don't know the details, but your setup.py needs to use either the 'package_data' or the 'data_files' entry in the dict you pass to setup. These can specify files you want included in the sdist which aren't package files.
>
> There are many complications with using them though. One of them in particular (I don't remember which one) installs the files you specify in a different place depending on whether the user is installing the sdist from local files (python setup.py install) or using pip, so be sure to test both ways.

'package_data' is the solution for my trouble.
Thank you very much, Jonathan.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 16:19:18 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:19:18 -0700
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk4KWiaksWciURj0+YLcgewr8nqHcMg+UWP3FcveynJYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Of course not. I do, however, think that it's conceivable that I'd
> want to key a namedtuple by an invalid identifier, and to do that,
> yes, I'd need to use getattr().

Care to give a real use case?  You could even go a step further and
use, say, arbitrary ints as names if you're willing to give up
getattr() and use "ob.__class__.__dict__[42].__get__(ob,
ob.__class__)" everywhere instead.  The fact that somebody might
conceivably want to do this doesn't make it a good idea, though.

I do find it a bit funny that you're criticizing a somewhat smelly
implementation detail by complaining that it doesn't support an
equally smelly feature.

Cheers,
Ian


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Nov 10 16:47:48 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:47:48 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC4684.8070308@stoneleaf.us>

Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is
> because they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and
> that string is passed to exec().
> 
> So really, does it have "nothing" to do with exec? Or does your
> argument eventually boil down to the use of exec?

As I recall the big reason for namedtuples was things like

     sys.version_info[1]  # behind door number one is...

being much more readable as

     sys.version_info.minor

In other words, the tuple offsets are named -- hence, namedtuples.  And 
only valid identifiers will work.

So, no, it has nothing to do with 'exec', and everything to do with the 
problem namedtuple was designed to solve.

~Ethan~


From rowen at uw.edu  Thu Nov 10 16:52:17 2011
From: rowen at uw.edu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:52:17 -0800
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
Message-ID: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>

I am trying to write a decorator that times an instance method and 
writes the results to a class member variable. For example:

def timeMethod(func):
    def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
        t1 = time.time()
        res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
        duration = time.time() - t1
        self.timings[func.__name__] = duration
        return res
    return wrapper

This works, but I'm not very happy with the way self.timings is obtained.


I first tried to write this as a class (for readability), and this did 
NOT work:

class timeMethod(object):
    def __init__(self, func):
        self.func = func
    def __call__(self, *args, **keyArgs):
        t1 = time.time()
        res = self.func(*args, **keyArgs)
        duration = time.time() - t1
        args[0].timings.set(self.func.__name__, duration)
        return res

In the first case the wrapper is called as an unbound function, so it 
works. But in the second case the wrapper is called as a bound method -- 
thus args[0] is not func's class instance, and I can't get to the 
timings attribute.

Unfortunately they are both pretty ugly. Is there a cleaner way to 
access the the instance of which func is a member? I was very 
disappointed it was not available when timeMethod was 
called/instantiated.

-- Russell



From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Thu Nov 10 16:54:02 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 06:54:02 +0900
Subject: [ANN] pyKook 0.7.1 - task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake
	or Ant
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RvyOZmAtzVqkgy0=hhqzi5se3zzs1Q96NyVs+yMMZm_sQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have released pyKook
0.7.1.http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
pyKook is a task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake or Ant.
Bugfix in this release----------------------
* Fixed to include 'kook/books/*.py' into .egg file

--regads,makoto kuwata

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have released pyKook 0.7.0.
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/
> http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
> http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
>
> In this release, you can run commands on remote machines using ssh.
> This is very useful to deploy your application.
>
>
> pyKook Overview
> ---------------
>
> pyKook is a task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake or Ant.
>
> (Kookbook.py):
>
> ? ?kookbook.default = 'build'
>
> ? ?## task
> ? ?@recipe(None, ['hello'])
> ? ?def build(c):
> ? ? ? ?"""build all"""
> ? ? ? ?pass
>
> ? ?## file
> ? ?@recipe('hello', ['hello.o'])
> ? ?def file_hello(c):
> ? ? ? ?"""build 'hello' from 'hello.o'"""
> ? ? ? ?system(c%'gcc -o $(product) $(ingred)')
>
> ? ?## rule
> ? ?@recipe('*.o', ['$(1).c', '$(1).h'])
> ? ?def file_o(c):
> ? ? ? ?system(c%'gcc -c $(ingred)')
>
>
> Command-line:
>
> ? ?bash> kk ? ? # or pykook
> ? ?$ gcc -c hello.c
> ? ?### *** hello.o (recipe=file_o)
> ? ?$ gcc -c hello.c
> ? ?### ** hello (recipe=file_hello)
> ? ?$ gcc -o hello hello.o
> ? ?### * build (recipe=build)
>
> See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html for details.
>
>
> Enhancements in this release
> ----------------------------
>
> * (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Remote command execution (ssh and sftp) is available.
> ?This is very useful to deploy your application into servers.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py)::
>
> ? ? ? ?from kook.remote import Remote
> ? ? ? ?remote = Remote(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?hosts ? ?= ['www1', 'www2', 'user3 at www3:10022'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ?port ? ? = 22,
> ? ? ? ? ? ?user ? ? = 'user1',
> ? ? ? ? ? ?#password = None, ? ? ?# for login, '~/.ssh/id_rsa' and sudo
> ? ? ? ? ? ?passphrase = None, ? ? # only for '~/.ssh/id_rsa'
> ? ? ? ? ? ?sudo_password = 'xxx', # only for sudo command
> ? ? ? ?)
>
> ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ?@remotes(remote)
> ? ? ? ?def hostinfo(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?"""show hostname"""
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh = c.ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh('hostname') ? ? ? ?# run command with ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh('whomai') ? ? ? ? ?# run command with ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.sudo('whoami') ? ? # run command with sudo
>
> ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ?@remotes(remote)
> ? ? ? ?def exchange(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?"""upload and download files"""
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh = c.ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?with ssh.pushd('work/apps'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.get('file.remote') ? ?# download a file
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.put('file.local') ? ? # upload a file
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.mget('remote.*') ? ? ?# download files
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.mput('local.*') ? ? ? # upload files
>
> ?Notice that you must configure ssh at first and confirm that
> ?you can log into servers without typing password::
>
> ? ? ? ?bash> ssh user1 at www1
> ? ? ? ?bash> ssh user1 at www2
> ? ? ? ?bash> ssh -p 10022 user3 at www3
> ? ? ? ?bash> kk hostinfo
> ? ? ? ?### * showinfo (recipe=showinfo)
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ hostame
> ? ? ? ?www1
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ whoami
> ? ? ? ?user1
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
> ? ? ? ?[user2 at www2]$ hostame
> ? ? ? ?www2
> ? ? ? ?[user2 at www2]$ whoami
> ? ? ? ?user2
> ? ? ? ?[user2 at www2]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
> ? ? ? ?[user3 at www3]$ hostame
> ? ? ? ?www3
> ? ? ? ?[user3 at www3]$ whami
> ? ? ? ?user3
> ? ? ? ?[user3 at www3]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
>
> ?Currently commands are executed sequencially (not in parallel).
>
> * (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Password object supported.
> ?Password object asks you to enter password in prompt when necessary.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py)::
>
> ? ? ? ?from kook.remote import Remote, Password
> ? ? ? ?remote = Remote(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?hosts ? ? ? ? = ['user1 at www1:22'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ?#password ? ? = Password('login'),
> ? ? ? ? ? ?passphrase ? ?= Password('~/.ssh/id_rsa'),
> ? ? ? ? ? ?sudo_password = Password('sudo command')
> ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ?#
> ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ?@remotes(remote)
> ? ? ? ?def remote_test(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh = c.ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.sudo('whoami')
>
> ?Output example::
>
> ? ? ? ?bash> kk remote_test
> ? ? ? ?### * remote_test (recipe=remote_test)
> ? ? ? ?Password for ~/.ssh/id_rsa:
> ? ? ? ?Password for sudo command:
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
>
> ?It is easy to share password object.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py)::
>
> ? ? ? ?from kook.remote import Remote, Password
> ? ? ? ?passwd = Password()
> ? ? ? ?remote = Remote(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?hosts ? ? ? ? = ['user1 at www1:22'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ?password ? ? ?= passwd,
> ? ? ? ? ? ?passphrase ? ?= passwd,
> ? ? ? ? ? ?sudo_password = passwd,
> ? ? ? ?)
>
>
> Changes in this release
> -----------------------
>
> * Category class is changed to convers all instance methods into staticmethods.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py):
>
> ? ? ? ?class apache(Category):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def start(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? system('apachectl start')
>
> ? ? ? ?## start() is converted into staticmethod
> ? ? ? ?assert type(apache.__dict__['start']) == staticmethod
> ? ? ? ?from types import FunctionType
> ? ? ? ?assert type(apache.start) == FuntionType
>
> ?This makes execution of other recipes in category easier::
>
> ? ? ? ?class apache(Category):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def start(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ...
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def stop(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ...
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def restart(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? apache.start(c) ? ?# execute other recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? apache.stop(c) ? ? # execute other recipe
>
> * (internal) kook.config.stdout and kook.config.stderr are removed.
>
>
>
> See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-CHANGES.txt for details.
>
>
> Have fun!
>
> --
> regards,
> makoto kuwata
>


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 17:35:14 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:35:14 -0700
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
In-Reply-To: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
References: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Russell E. Owen <rowen at uw.edu> wrote:
> I am trying to write a decorator that times an instance method and
> writes the results to a class member variable. For example:
>
> def timeMethod(func):
> ? ?def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> ? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
> ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> ? ? ? ?self.timings[func.__name__] = duration
> ? ? ? ?return res
> ? ?return wrapper
>
> This works, but I'm not very happy with the way self.timings is obtained.

What do you feel is wrong with it?  You probably should use
sum(os.times()[:2]) instead, which (assuming your script is
single-threaded) will more accurately count the actual CPU time spent
in the function rather than real time, which could be quite different
if the CPU is busy.

Also, why do you need this?  If you're just trying to evaluate the
speed of your code, you should consider using a proper profiler or the
timeit module.  The former will tell you how much time is spent in
each function, while the latter runs the code a large number of times
in a loop, which gives you better precision for quick methods.

> I first tried to write this as a class (for readability), and this did
> NOT work:
>
> class timeMethod(object):
> ? ?def __init__(self, func):
> ? ? ? ?self.func = func
> ? ?def __call__(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> ? ? ? ?res = self.func(*args, **keyArgs)
> ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> ? ? ? ?args[0].timings.set(self.func.__name__, duration)
> ? ? ? ?return res
>
> In the first case the wrapper is called as an unbound function, so it
> works. But in the second case the wrapper is called as a bound method --
> thus args[0] is not func's class instance, and I can't get to the
> timings attribute.

I prefer the function version myself, but to make this work you could
add something like this (untested) to make your wrapper class a
descriptor that tacks on the self argument:

    def __get__(self, instance, owner):
        from functools import partial
        if instance is None:
            return self
        return partial(self, instance)

HTH,
Ian


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 17:40:18 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:40:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
Message-ID: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

Lemme preface this post by saying the following - I've taken my
computer to the local IT office on RIT campus, asked a Computer
Science professor specializing in Python, and posted my question on
answers.yahoo.com (I don't know why I expected that to work...). I've
also googled my problem multiple times and have not come up with
anything newer than about 4 years ago.

Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
desktop... not so much.

How to recreate the issue on iMac - try to open IDLE, or in terminal,
type the following:
python
import turtle
turtle.up()

This is what's displayed in terminal:

COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$ python
Python 2.7.2 (v2.7.2:8527427914a2, Jun 11 2011, 15:22:34)
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import turtle
>>> turtle.up()
CGColor with 1 components
Abort trap
COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$

It also pops up a Problem Report for Python
Python quit unexpectedly.
Click Reopen to open the application again. This report will be sent
to Apple automatically.
Problem Details and System Configuration

Process:         Python [33535]
Path:            /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
Identifier:      org.python.python
Version:         2.7.2 (2.7.2)
Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  bash [33532]

Date/Time:       2011-11-10 17:31:58.424 -0500
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.6.8 (10K549)
Report Version:  6

Interval Since Last Report:          1141508 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:           2
Per-App Interval Since Last Report:  2 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   2
Anonymous UUID:                      C667A2E4-5530-4A3E-B6E3-
B38E970458E5

Exception Type:  EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Crashed Thread:  0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Application Specific Information:
abort() called

Thread 0 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89bd40b6 __kill + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89c749f6 abort + 83
2   Tcl                           	0x000000010067f9ef Tcl_Panic + 0
3   Tcl                           	0x000000010067fa91 Tcl_Panic + 162
4   Tk                            	0x00000001010ac5a7 TkpGetColor +
383
5   Tk                            	0x00000001010b9a2a TkpMenuInit +
156
6   Tk                            	0x000000010103c36c TkMenuInit + 88
7   Tk                            	0x00000001010bc68b -
[TKApplication(TKMenus) _setupMenus] + 53
8   Tk                            	0x00000001010b6d27 -
[TKApplication(TKInit) _setup:] + 56
9   Tk                            	0x00000001010b7260 TkpInit + 545
10  Tk                            	0x000000010102da26 Initialize +
1678
11  _tkinter.so                   	0x00000001005fccfb Tcl_AppInit + 75
12  _tkinter.so                   	0x00000001005fa153 Tkinter_Create +
915
13  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c102d
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 22397
14  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
15  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
16  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
17  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
18  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
19  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
20  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
21  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
22  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
23  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
24  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
25  org.python.python             	0x00000001000ba5f7
PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords + 87
26  org.python.python             	0x0000000100021e5e PyInstance_New +
126
27  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
28  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
29  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
30  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
31  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
32  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
33  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
34  org.python.python             	0x0000000100077a68 slot_tp_init +
88
35  org.python.python             	0x0000000100074e65 type_call + 245
36  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
37  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
38  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c1ebe
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26126
39  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
40  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
41  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
42  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
43  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
44  org.python.python             	0x0000000100077a68 slot_tp_init +
88
45  org.python.python             	0x0000000100074e65 type_call + 245
46  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
47  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
48  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c1ebe
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26126
49  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c1ebe
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26126
50  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
51  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2e46 PyEval_EvalCode
+ 54
52  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e769c
PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags + 380
53  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e78fe
PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags + 78
54  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e80e1
PyRun_AnyFileExFlags + 161
55  org.python.python             	0x00000001000fe77c Py_Main + 2940
56  org.python.python             	0x0000000100000f14 0x100000000 +
3860

Thread 1:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9ec0a kevent + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89ba0add
_dispatch_mgr_invoke + 154
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89ba07b4
_dispatch_queue_invoke + 185
3   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89ba02de
_dispatch_worker_thread2 + 252
4   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9fc08
_pthread_wqthread + 353
5   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9faa5 start_wqthread +
13

Thread 2:
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9fa2a
__workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9fe3c
_pthread_wqthread + 917
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9faa5 start_wqthread +
13

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):
  rax: 0x0000000000000000  rbx: 0x00007fff7116b2f8  rcx:
0x00007fff5fbfc0e8  rdx: 0x0000000000000000
  rdi: 0x00000000000082ff  rsi: 0x0000000000000006  rbp:
0x00007fff5fbfc100  rsp: 0x00007fff5fbfc0e8
   r8: 0x00007fff7116ea60   r9: 0x0000000000000000  r10:
0x00007fff89bd00fa  r11: 0x0000000000000206
  r12: 0x00000001006ecb20  r13: 0x0000000000000001  r14:
0x00000001010e1f77  r15: 0x0000000000000000
  rip: 0x00007fff89bd40b6  rfl: 0x0000000000000206  cr2:
0x00000001135b54f3
...............
...............
...............
Model: iMac7,1, BootROM IM71.007A.B03, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo,
2.4 GHz, 4 GB, SMC 1.20f4
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro, ATI,RadeonHD2600, PCIe, 256 MB
Memory Module: global_name
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x14E4, 0x88),
Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (5.10.131.42.4)
Bluetooth: Version 2.4.5f3, 2 service, 19 devices, 1 incoming serial
ports
Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
Network Service: AirPort, AirPort, en1
Serial ATA Device: WDC WD3200AAJS-40RYA0, 298.09 GB
Parallel ATA Device: OPTIARC  DVD RW AD-5630A, 406.7 MB
USB Device: Built-in iSight, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.), 0x8502,
0xfd400000 / 2
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.),
0x8206, 0x1a100000 / 2
USB Device: Razer Naga, 0x1532, 0x0015, 0x1d100000 / 2
USB Device: IR Receiver, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.), 0x8242, 0x5d100000 / 2




I have tried copying every framework possible from the laptop to the
iMac, done several reinstalls, and pretty much everything else I and
the IT people on campus could think of to no avail. I'm pretty close
to paying 20-30 bucks for a call to Apple and ask for help, because
I'm tired of programming on a 13-inch screen while my 20-inch desktop
is sitting right next to me just playing pandora...

P.S. To those who might say "just use your imac as another monitor!" I
can't. I've already asked Apple about that - the iMac is too old.

HELP!!!


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 17:48:51 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 22:48:51 GMT
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:58 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are
> based on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the
> composition does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm
> transplants.

And Guido's Time Machine strikes again... not only have there been arm 
transplants, but the first DOUBLE arm transplant was three years ago:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1039587/Worlds-double-arm-transplant-man-gets-teenagers-limbs.html


There have been successful *face* transplants. Nothing will surprise me 
now until they do a brain or head transplant.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 17:56:41 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 22:56:41 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2624.1320959990.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebc56a9$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:19:18 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
> <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Of course not. I do, however, think that it's conceivable that I'd want
>> to key a namedtuple by an invalid identifier, and to do that, yes, I'd
>> need to use getattr().
> 
> Care to give a real use case?  

A common use-case is for accessing fields from an external data source, 
using the same field names. For example, you might have a database with a 
field called "class", or a CSV file with columns "0-10", "11-20", etc.

Personally, I wouldn't bother using attributes to access fields, I'd use 
a dict, but some people think it's important to use attribute access.


> You could even go a step further and use,
> say, arbitrary ints as names if you're willing to give up getattr() and
> use "ob.__class__.__dict__[42].__get__(ob, ob.__class__)" everywhere
> instead.  The fact that somebody might conceivably want to do this
> doesn't make it a good idea, though.

Obviously you would write a helper function rather than repeat that mess 
in-line everywhere.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 18:07:23 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 23:07:23 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:37:05 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
>> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.
> 
> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is because
> they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and that
> string is passed to exec().

That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without 
exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from 
passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of 
allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?

You could remove the validation, allowing users to pass invalid field 
names, but that would be a lousy API. If you want field names that aren't 
valid identifiers, the right solution is a dict, not attributes.

Here's a re-implementation using a metaclass:

http://pastebin.com/AkG1gbGC

and a diff from the Python bug tracker removing exec from namedtuple:

http://bugs.python.org/file11608/new_namedtuples.diff


You will notice both of them keep the field name validation.


-- 
Steven


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov 10 18:11:23 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:11:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9hlmr$k7l$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df at e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com> CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> writes:

> Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> desktop... not so much.

IDLE is a separate program from Python itself, right?  It's a GUI, or an
IDE, or a shell or something.

(Your session output doesn't seem to involve IDLE at all, so I am
wondering why you mentioned it.)

By typing "python" on your desktop, are you running plain Python, or
are you running IDLE?

Did you install Python and IDLE on the desktop machine separately?
Did both installations succeed?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Thu Nov 10 18:14:23 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:14:23 -0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:58 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are
>> based on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the
>> composition does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm
>> transplants.
>
> And Guido's Time Machine strikes again... not only have there been arm
> transplants, but the first DOUBLE arm transplant was three years ago:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1039587/Worlds-double-arm-transplant-man-gets-teenagers-limbs.html
>
>
> There have been successful *face* transplants. Nothing will surprise me
> now until they do a brain or head transplant.
>

Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
full body transplant?

>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 18:27:49 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:27:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<j9hlmr$k7l$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <10a05a56-bd2a-4036-963a-b003453f58a9@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 6:11?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d... at e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com> CAMERON ALLEY <cra5... at g.rit.edu> writes:
>
> > Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> > ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> > 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> > laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> > desktop... not so much.
>
> IDLE is a separate program from Python itself, right? ?It's a GUI, or an
> IDE, or a shell or something.
>
> (Your session output doesn't seem to involve IDLE at all, so I am
> wondering why you mentioned it.)
>
> By typing "python" on your desktop, are you running plain Python, or
> are you running IDLE?
>
> Did you install Python and IDLE on the desktop machine separately?
> Did both installations succeed?
>
> --
> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

Thanks for the prompt response - yes, IDLE is a seperate program from
python, however included in the Python 2.7.2 folder when downloaded
from python.org. It's an IDE. I mentioned it, because when I try to
open it, I also get an error report, so I figured it wouldn't be
coincidence.

I'm not typing "python" on my desktop, I'm typing it in terminal with
no change of default directory. It runs plain python THROUGH terminal,
and when I import turtle, and call turtle.up() it should in theory
display an image of whatever I asked turtle to draw (in this case
nothing, but the window should still pop up.)

I installed two things on the desktop - python2.7.2 from python.org
and the respective ActiveTK. Both succeeded.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 18:39:12 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:39:12 +1100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq391UM5AgvXztmA9bVqXyz9i0ZD1cHbPy3+4rV+cjEwg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
> full body transplant?

It's just a rebinding. You don't move the body, you just bind your
name to a new body. It's perfectly legal to have two names bound to
one body (cf Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde); if you murder Mr Hyde, you can
still access the body through the other name.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 10 18:45:06 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:45:06 -0500
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
In-Reply-To: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9hnm6$vv6$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2011 5:40 PM, CAMERON ALLEY wrote:

> Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> desktop... not so much.

You issue has nothing to do with IDLE and perhaps all to do with the 
buggy tcl/tk that comes with OSX 10.6. The Python module tkinter is the 
tk interface for Python (hence the name). The turtle module and IDLE 
both use tkinter. Searching all tracker issues (open and closed) for 
'max tcl' turns up (among several others)
http://bugs.python.org/issue10907
http://bugs.python.org/issue10969
http://bugs.python.org/issue12269
The latter 2, especially, might tell you what to do.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From nad at acm.org  Thu Nov 10 19:27:33 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:27:33 -0800
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-FAAC47.16273310112011@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df at e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>,
 CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> wrote:
> Lemme preface this post by saying the following - I've taken my
> computer to the local IT office on RIT campus, asked a Computer
> Science professor specializing in Python, and posted my question on
> answers.yahoo.com (I don't know why I expected that to work...). I've
> also googled my problem multiple times and have not come up with
> anything newer than about 4 years ago.
> 
> Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> desktop... not so much.
> 
> How to recreate the issue on iMac - try to open IDLE, or in terminal,
> type the following:
> python
> import turtle
> turtle.up()
> 
> This is what's displayed in terminal:
> 
> COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$ python
> Python 2.7.2 (v2.7.2:8527427914a2, Jun 11 2011, 15:22:34)
> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import turtle
> >>> turtle.up()
> CGColor with 1 components
> Abort trap
> COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$

That's an odd one; I've not seen a crash like that before.  From the 
crash dump, it is clear that the crash is happening inside of Tk, not 
Python, and, judging from the symbol names, it has something to do with 
menu initialization and colors.

Try running the same Turtle test using the Apple-supplied Python 2.6

  /usr/bin/python2.6

The Apple-supplied Tcl/Tk that it uses is known to have a number of 
serious problems and should not be used for serious work but, for me, it 
will bring up the turtle window in Tk without crashing.  If it crashes 
the same way that 2.7.2 does, then that would be pretty solid 
corroboration that the problem is not in Python and more likely an issue 
with Tk.

My first question would be do you have some third-party OS X app or 
extension installed that alters or colors menus?  I know there used to 
be some popular ones out there in the past.  If not, try opening System 
Preferences, select Displays, select Color, and check which display 
profile is selected.  Perhaps try selecting another.  And are you using 
a specific language in System Preferences -> Languages & Text -> 
Language?

If that doesn't help, try running the following commands in a terminal 
window:

  source /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/tkConfig.sh
  echo $TK_VERSION $TK_PATCH_LEVEL

You should see something like:

  8.5 .11

If not, double check that you really are using the latest ActiveState 
Tcl/Tk 8.5 installer from here:

  http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads

Then try the failing turtle commads again and in the crash report, 
verify that  /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/ appear as 
framework paths and *not*  
/System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/.

Try the following command which may not work if you don't have Xcode 
tools installed:

  otool -L $(python2.7 -c 'import _tkinter; print(_tkinter.__file__)')

The paths reported again should start with  
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework and not 
/System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework.

If none of that works, you could try installing the other python.org 
2.7.2 installer, the 32-bit-only one, which is linked to the older 
Tcl/Tk 8.4, which uses Carbon interfaces rather than Cocoa, and see what 
happens with it.

In any case, please report back what you find and, if necessary, open an 
issue on the Python bug tracker:
  http://bugs.python.org/

Thanks!

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From gagou7 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 19:49:05 2011
From: gagou7 at gmail.com (Gagou Final Fantasy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:49:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Solution
Message-ID: <b9fb48e4-3933-44ae-9df8-1d181c87224e@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

A common problem when you generate executable on Windows 7 and deploy
on Windows XP.

According with the py2exe tutorial, you need include the MVC DLL. But
the tutorial is old and the script given search only in one directory.
Before, the directory contained all DLL and the manifest, but nowadays
it contains only the DLL. You need to specify another directory for
the manifest file. If you don't do that, you will have this kind of
error:

    "this application has failed to start because the application
configuration is incorrect"

If you are on Windows 7 64 bits, you need the Microsoft Visual C
runtime DLL. Don't forget the manifest that isn't in the same
directory in Windows 7. You need to adapt the script like this:

    data_files = [("VC90", glob(r'C:\Windows\winsxs
\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91\*.*')),
    			("VC90", glob(r'C:\Windows\winsxs\Manifests
\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91.manifest'))
    ]
    setup(
    	data_files=data_files,
        console = [{'script': "C:\test\my_program.py"}],
        zipfile = None,
    )


Now you can deploy the "dist" directory that contains all files and
dependencies.


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:30:41 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:30:41 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
	<CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDrp5Q4rUrgv+7w0kt9oDhb4yD1DJq4ETBmM+qsy6t-shw@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan at case.edu>

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just did an example code to describe what i am looking for.
> >
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> > # ...
> >
> > class Head:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.size = 5
> >
> > class Hat:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.color = red
> >     def took_on(self, body):
> >         self.body = body
> >     def took_off(self, body):
> >         del self.body
> >
> > class Body:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.head = Head()
> >     def take_on_hat(self, hat):
> >         self.hat = hat
> >         hat.take_on(self)
> >     def take_off_hat(self):
> >         hat.take_off(self)
> >         del self.hat
> >     def go_to_heaven(self):
> >         take_off_hat(self)
> >         del self.head
> >
> /*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> >
> > In this example, Head and body are COMPOSITION, which means
> > a. A head only live with one body, it can not live with other body. It
> can
> > not even live without body
> > b. If the body go to die, the head also go to die.
> >
> > Body and Hat are aggregation, which means
> > a. A hat live isolate with body, its life circle is isolate
> > b. A hat only live with one body at a specific time, it can not live with
> > two body(association would be more than one)
> >
> > So when the body die, the clean dead should include take_off Hat and del
> > Head, otherwise, the code definition is not prciselly describing the
> > relationship, which may cause a mess system, for example, a body has
> dead,
> > but one hat is still associated with a unreferenced body.
> > A point on this issue, maybe python is smart that the take_off_hat(self)
> is
> > not needed in go_to_heaven() method(i am not sure yet), but the del
> > self.head is sure needed, otherwise, we will have a no_body_head in our
> > ZODB, that is extremely horrible, right?
> >
> > All of these points one, the four kinds of class relationship in UML
> > precisely describe the real word, if the implementation is not precisely,
> > you will have unexpected results.
> > Of course, python may be smart to achieve such goal with less effort,
> that
> > is why i am asking for a code example for all of the four relationships.
>
> You're still misunderstanding Python's object model. del does NOT
> delete an object. It deletes a name. The only way for an object to be
> deleted is for it to be inaccessible (there are no references to it,
> or there are no reachable references to it).
> >>> foo = object()
> >>> bar = foo
> >>> foo
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
> >>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
> >>> del foo
> >>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
> >>> foo
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in <module>
>    foo
> NameError: name 'foo' is not defined
>
>
> There is no way to force the go_to_heaven method to delete the head
> unless you can make sure that all other references to the head are
> weak references. If you need strictly-enforced relationships, Python
> is probably not the right language for the job- you'll be better off
> with C++ or Java.
>

Thanks for your reply, but i know your point on this before post this
issue. "doing the the job of python's garbage collecting" system is not i
want.
What i am trying to do is a python implementation of the real "composition
implementation".

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:34:30 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:34:30 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <j9h98n$i56$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9h98n$i56$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDq7VtVQrOAUpzXF0YBJvBb4k+gpOLv4V0q3vVPL+73w8g@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>

> On 11/10/2011 9:31 AM, Jerry Zhang wrote:
>
>     Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
>>    aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this
>>    since it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system
>>    should track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may
>>    not work well.
>>
>>    For example,
>>    a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
>>    My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
>>    instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
>>
>
> Create the arm as a private member '_arm' of body and make sure that no
> method of body passes out a reference to the arm. (In Python, outside code
> can still grab a reference to the private attribute, but that is a coding
> bug.)
>
> I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are based
> on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the composition
> does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm transplants.

Thanks for your comment.
Actually you are mixing the concept. That is aggregation implementation,
which also points out there is difference between aggregation and
composition implementation. You already know that.

>
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:43:33 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:43:33 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq391UM5AgvXztmA9bVqXyz9i0ZD1cHbPy3+4rV+cjEwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq391UM5AgvXztmA9bVqXyz9i0ZD1cHbPy3+4rV+cjEwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDrZTNzi8_v8fk8mNH+1b0tnW2670OXjE4U3Mqbw0M2iLw@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
> wrote:
> > Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
> > full body transplant?
>
> It's just a rebinding. You don't move the body, you just bind your
> name to a new body. It's perfectly legal to have two names bound to
> one body (cf Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde); if you murder Mr Hyde, you can
> still access the body through the other name.
>
> This is association, not aggregation or composition. You already realized
that there is difference between these relationship(depending on your
application requirement). and you are trying to tell me to code a
aggregation and the composition with the same code.



> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:54:22 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:54:22 +0800
Subject: Working with databases (ODBC and ORMs) in Python 3.2
In-Reply-To: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDp4TM+gmr827aKn-PydxhozgLyizf4R9cz519x0jN_5Rw@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 tkpmep at hotmail.com <tkpmep at hotmail.com>

> We are in the process of trying to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.2
> with a view to making a 5-10 year commitment to the right platform,
> and would appreciate some guidance on how best to connect to SQL
> databases in 3.2. ceODBC 2.01 provides an ODBC driver for Python 3.2,
> does anyone have experience using it? Also, are there any ORMs (object
> relational mapper)s that work well with 3,2?
>
I am in the similar situation as you. I abandon the MySQL + python3.x
solution, since translate between fields of tables(SQL table) and objects
attributes is destroying my OOP world.
I choose the ZODB + python2.x solution, python3.x does not support ZODB yet.


>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Thomas Philips
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 21:42:45 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:42:45 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDrZTNzi8_v8fk8mNH+1b0tnW2670OXjE4U3Mqbw0M2iLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq391UM5AgvXztmA9bVqXyz9i0ZD1cHbPy3+4rV+cjEwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDrZTNzi8_v8fk8mNH+1b0tnW2670OXjE4U3Mqbw0M2iLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDrZSXLNymO6G4bfLX+Aszzkqcv9609j7DR+j1Th3fYtow@mail.gmail.com>

A general description of my issue.

To my understand, python's feature such as "name-reference-object" and
"garbage collection" system did some of work for you, it makes your life
easier, but you still need to add your explicit application in your code.

For example,
Composition implementation: you may need to do 5 job with C++, but only 2
job with python, the other 3 job is done by python implicitly.
association implementation: You need 3 job with C++, but 1 with python. it
seems python's object's lifecycle handling has reached this level, all you
should do is just "associating and de-association".

Here is exactly of my question, for composition,
 the best code may be you do 2 job explicitly, 3 job done by python
implicitly.
Code_Zero. 1 job(by you) + 4(by python) does NOT work.
Code_one. 2 job(by you) + 3(by python) works. That is the best one.
Code_two. 3 job( by you) + 2 (by python) works too,
Code_three. 4 job(by you) + 1(by python) works too.

Since i am not familiar with python yet, my code most likely would gets
into Code_two or Code_three(Code_Zero is also possible for new guys like
me), though they also work, they are bad code.
What i am looking for is the Code_one example, i thought many OOP
application designer may have met this issue, so a good Code_one reference
is the best choice to start this project.

2011/11/11 Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>

>
>
> 2011/11/11 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
>> > full body transplant?
>>
>> It's just a rebinding. You don't move the body, you just bind your
>> name to a new body. It's perfectly legal to have two names bound to
>> one body (cf Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde); if you murder Mr Hyde, you can
>> still access the body through the other name.
>>
>> This is association, not aggregation or composition. You already realized
> that there is difference between these relationship(depending on your
> application requirement). and you are trying to tell me to code a
> aggregation and the composition with the same code.
>
>
>
>> ChrisA
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 23:03:05 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
Message-ID: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>

Hi. I couldn't find a way to overwrite a property declared using a decorator in a parent class. I can only do this if I use the "classic" property() method along with a getter function. Here's an example:

#!/usr/bin/python3

class Polite:
    
    def __init__(self):
        self._greeting = "Hello"
    
    def get_greeting(self, suffix=", my dear."):
        return self._greeting + suffix
    greeting1 = property(get_greeting)

    @property
    def greeting2(self, suffix=", my dear."):
        return self._greeting + suffix


class Rude(Polite):
    
    @property
    def greeting1(self):
        return self.get_greeting(suffix=", stupid.")
    
    @property
    def greeting2(self):
        return super().greeting2(suffix=", stupid.")


p = Polite()
r = Rude()

print("p.greeting1 =", p.greeting1)
print("p.greeting2 =", p.greeting2)
print("r.greeting1 =", r.greeting1)
print("r.greeting2 =", r.greeting2) # TypeError: 'str' object is not callable



In this example I can easily overwrite the greeting1 property. But the inherited greeting2 doesn't seem to be a property but a mere string.

I use a lot of properties decorators for simple properties in a project and I hate mixing them with a couple of "undecorated" properties that have to be overwritten in child classes. I tried using @greeting2.getter decorator and tricks like this but inheritance overwriting failed every time I used decorators.
 Can someone tell me a way to use decorator-declared properties that can be overwritten in child classes?? That would be nice.


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 23:25:55 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:25:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2632.1320971268.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <960bb3e9-a1b4-4495-9334-e1a35f9b40f5@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 7:27?pm, Ned Deily <n... at acm.org> wrote:
> That's an odd one; I've not seen a crash like that before. ?From the
> crash dump, it is clear that the crash is happening inside of Tk, not
> Python, and, judging from the symbol names, it has something to do with
> menu initialization and colors.
>
> Try running the same Turtle test using the Apple-supplied Python 2.6
>
> ? /usr/bin/python2.6
>
> The Apple-supplied Tcl/Tk that it uses is known to have a number of
> serious problems and should not be used for serious work but, for me, it
> will bring up the turtle window in Tk without crashing. ?If it crashes
> the same way that 2.7.2 does, then that would be pretty solid
> corroboration that the problem is not in Python and more likely an issue
> with Tk.
>
> My first question would be do you have some third-party OS X app or
> extension installed that alters or colors menus? ?I know there used to
> be some popular ones out there in the past. ?If not, try opening System
> Preferences, select Displays, select Color, and check which display
> profile is selected. ?Perhaps try selecting another. ?And are you using
> a specific language in System Preferences -> Languages & Text ->
> Language?
>
> If that doesn't help, try running the following commands in a terminal
> window:
>
> ? source /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/tkConfig.sh
> ? echo $TK_VERSION $TK_PATCH_LEVEL
>
> You should see something like:
>
> ? 8.5 .11
>
> If not, double check that you really are using the latest ActiveState
> Tcl/Tk 8.5 installer from here:
>
> ?http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads
>
> Then try the failing turtle commads again and in the crash report,
> verify that ?/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/ appear as
> framework paths and *not*
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/.
>
> Try the following command which may not work if you don't have Xcode
> tools installed:
>
> ? otool -L $(python2.7 -c 'import _tkinter; print(_tkinter.__file__)')
>
> The paths reported again should start with
> /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework and not
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework.
>
> If none of that works, you could try installing the other python.org
> 2.7.2 installer, the 32-bit-only one, which is linked to the older
> Tcl/Tk 8.4, which uses Carbon interfaces rather than Cocoa, and see what
> happens with it.
>
> In any case, please report back what you find and, if necessary, open an
> issue on the Python bug tracker:
> ?http://bugs.python.org/
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> ?Ned Deily,
> ?n... at acm.org
Thanks so much for your incredibly in-depth response Ned!

I've tried everything you've suggested and here's what I've found:

The error occurs with the old python as well, but this MIGHT be
because at some point during my many attempts at fixing this issue I
could have deleted an old tk framework.

It's funny you mention the theming - before snow leapord, I had
leapord installed and used magnifique to theme my computer. I then
upgraded to snow leapord and (like a novice) tried to use magnifique
again only to find it crashed my system because it's not compatible
with snow leapord. I did a reinstall of the OS though, and everything
was fine. (this was about 2 years ago). I also recently installed
Crystal Black on here, however I've been having this issue since
before that. Other than that, no specific theming or color changing
schemes come to mind... Oh actually there is something called Nocturne
I used to use... Not sure if any of these could be affecting this.

There's only one color profile, and no bizarre language being used.

When I typed that in terminal, I saw 8.5.11 - this was the recommended
activestate by python.org. Should I get 8.5.11?

I tried the failing turtle commands, and in the crash report /Library/
Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/ only appears once (when doing a
cmd+f search) and does not have /System/ in front of it.

I'm going to try installing the 32 bit 2.7.2 installer next, and I'll
be back to let you know how it goes.

Thanks a lot!

Cameron


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 23:35:32 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:35:32 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJRyQReMb0LMKC5GHwDxDNP2QU7+H3VwBfs78vN8aG13g@mail.gmail.com>

> You will notice both of them keep the field name validation.

There are lots of reasons for that to be the case. To me, the most
likely one just seems to be that you don't want to remove more than
necessary when changing the way something works under the hood -- both
for compatibility reasons, and because you want the patch to get
accepted and want the least number of objectionable changes. I guess
you disagree.

> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?

Then why doesn't Python do this anywhere else? e.g. why can I
setattr(obj, 'a#b') when obj is any other mutable type?

I just don't believe this reasoning is what happened, I suppose. And
there's no way for you to convince me, or me to convince you, without
R. Hettinger stepping in here and verifying one side of the story.
This is subjective supposition, and that was supposed to be my most
objective opposition.

To go off on another tangent, though, I don't really understand how
you guys can think this is reasonable, though. I don't get this
philosophy of restricting inputs that would otherwise be perfectly
valid, just for concerns that you have that users might not share --
especially when it's valid everywhere else that the concept shows up.
It seems totally inconsistent with the attitude expressed above (by
you!) towards exec, which is that it's ok to be cautious of something,
but something else to forbid it outright.

Of course, as I said before, I don't agree with core python developers
on lots of things. I guess this is just another thing I just don't
understand.

Devin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:37:05 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
>>> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.
>>
>> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is because
>> they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and that
>> string is passed to exec().
>
> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?
>
> You could remove the validation, allowing users to pass invalid field
> names, but that would be a lousy API. If you want field names that aren't
> valid identifiers, the right solution is a dict, not attributes.
>
> Here's a re-implementation using a metaclass:
>
> http://pastebin.com/AkG1gbGC
>
> and a diff from the Python bug tracker removing exec from namedtuple:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/file11608/new_namedtuples.diff
>
>
> You will notice both of them keep the field name validation.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 23:38:28 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:38:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2632.1320971268.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<960bb3e9-a1b4-4495-9334-e1a35f9b40f5@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073@s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

IT WORKS!!!! I didn't change my activestate, but I downloaded python
3.2.2 with the 32 bit installer and it works! Perfectally!!

Sir you're my savior, thank you so much.

I don't know how you did it but you just made my day :)

Thanks again


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 23:43:30 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:43:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
Message-ID: <a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 2:03?pm, Laurent <laurent.pa... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi. I couldn't find a way to overwrite a property declared using a decorator in a parent class.

> class Polite:
> ? ? @property
> ? ? def greeting2(self, suffix=", my dear."):
> ? ? ? ? return self._greeting + suffix

Here you set up greeting2 as a property.

> class Rude(Polite):
> ? ? @property
> ? ? def greeting2(self):
> ? ? ? ? return super().greeting2(suffix=", stupid.")

Here you call Polite.greeting2 as a function.

> print("r.greeting2 =", r.greeting2) # TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

And here it's telling you that you're trying to treat a string - the
output of Polite.greeting2 - as a function.

The problem isn't that you cannot override greeting2 on Rude, it's
that you can't treat properties as functions, so you can't pass in a
new suffix. Instead, break the suffix out as a class attribute, then
each descendent just needs to override that attribute:

  class Polite(object):
    suffix = ', my dear'

    @property
    def greeting(self):
      return 'Hello' + self.suffix

  class Rude(Polite):
    suffix = ', stupid'


From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 00:17:11 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:17:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Yes using a separate class variable would transfer the problem to the class level. But adding 10 class variables if I have 10 properties would be ugly. Maybe I should reformulate the subject of this thread to "is there some python magic to pass parameters to decorator-declared properties ?"


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Fri Nov 11 00:40:09 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:40:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9F99DC7F2A816OKB@88.198.244.100>

Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
>> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier. 
> 
> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is
> because they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and
> that string is passed to exec().

    	The whole point of named tuples is to be able to access the members 
via attribute access as in "obj.attr".  Things like "obj.--" are not 
valid Python syntax, so you can't use "--" as the name of a namedtuple 
field.  Yes, you can do "getattr(obj, '--')" if you want, but it's quite 
reasonable for namedtuple to refrain from catering to that sort of 
perverse usage.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Fri Nov 11 00:54:50 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:54:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <Xns9F99DEFCB64B0OKB@88.198.244.100>

Laurent wrote:

> Yes using a separate class variable would transfer the problem to
> the class level. But adding 10 class variables if I have 10
> properties would be ugly. Maybe I should reformulate the subject of
> this thread to "is there some python magic to pass parameters to
> decorator-declared properties ?" 

    	You can't have it both ways.  If you want

myObj.greeting2 # No parentheses

    	To evaluate to a string (which it will if it's a property as you 
set it up), then it is necessarily true that myObj.greeting2(somearg) is 
going to try to call that string, which isn't going to work.  If you 
need to be able to pass in parameters, then you need greeting2 to be a 
real method, not a property, and you need to get the greeting string 
with

myObj.greeting2() # Parentheses

    	All this is as it should be.  The whole point of properties is that 
outside functions accessing them don't "know" that a getter function is 
called behind the scenes.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Nov 11 00:58:21 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:58:21 -0800
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQ4Ch8amPw8ybkZbuo-VqxmLYLPV=xy3s+N3OgQw2TJ0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Laurent <laurent.payot at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes using a separate class variable would transfer the problem to the class level. But adding 10 class variables if I have 10 properties would be ugly. Maybe I should reformulate the subject of this thread to "is there some python magic to pass parameters to decorator-declared properties ?"

Apparently, yes:

>>> class Foo(object):
...     @property
...     def bar(self, arg1='baz', arg2='qux'):
...         return arg1, arg2
...
>>> Foo.bar.fget(Foo(), 'spam', 'eggs')
('spam', 'eggs')
>>>

Though I do not like this trick at all.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com


From nad at acm.org  Fri Nov 11 01:51:29 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:51:29 -0800
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2632.1320971268.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<960bb3e9-a1b4-4495-9334-e1a35f9b40f5@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073@s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-9685C6.22512910112011@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073 at s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
 CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> wrote:
> IT WORKS!!!! I didn't change my activestate, but I downloaded python
> 3.2.2 with the 32 bit installer and it works! Perfectally!!
> 
> Sir you're my savior, thank you so much.
> 
> I don't know how you did it but you just made my day :)

The 32-bit-installer links to the older Carbon-based Tcl/Tk 8.4 which is 
very different under the covers from the Tcl/Tk 8.5 used by the 
Apple-supplied Pythons and the python.org 64-bit installer.  So there's 
*something* on your system that interferes with the Cocoa Tcl/Tk 8.5.  
If you want to pursue it, you might ask on the OS X Tcl mailing list.  
Good luck!

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.tcl.mac

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 04:41:39 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1571989.1239.1321004499667.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>

Hey yes it's working that way. But I don't like it very much either. If as OKB said the whole point is that outside functions can't detect a property then I'm going to stick with the non-decorator way. Thanks anyway.


From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 04:41:39 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1571989.1239.1321004499667.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>

Hey yes it's working that way. But I don't like it very much either. If as OKB said the whole point is that outside functions can't detect a property then I'm going to stick with the non-decorator way. Thanks anyway.


From ss27051980 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 06:23:08 2011
From: ss27051980 at gmail.com (Suresh Sharma)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:53:08 +0530
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
Message-ID: <14bljwe7ffx67yysd6rfhxr9.1321010588320@email.android.com>

Hello all,
I need to know how to connect python 3.2 with mysql db i am newbie and appreciate your help to enhance my skills.

I googled a lot but nothing came up 

Ned Deily <nad at acm.org> wrote:

>In article 
><415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073 at s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
> CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> wrote:
>> IT WORKS!!!! I didn't change my activestate, but I downloaded python
>> 3.2.2 with the 32 bit installer and it works! Perfectally!!
>> 
>> Sir you're my savior, thank you so much.
>> 
>> I don't know how you did it but you just made my day :)
>
>The 32-bit-installer links to the older Carbon-based Tcl/Tk 8.4 which is 
>very different under the covers from the Tcl/Tk 8.5 used by the 
>Apple-supplied Pythons and the python.org 64-bit installer.  So there's 
>*something* on your system that interferes with the Cocoa Tcl/Tk 8.5.  
>If you want to pursue it, you might ask on the OS X Tcl mailing list.  
>Good luck!
>
>http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.tcl.mac
>
>-- 
> Ned Deily,
> nad at acm.org
>
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 08:31:35 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:31:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
Message-ID: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hi Folks

I pass a nested dictionary to a function.

def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
	print k1
	print k2

There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

Regards

macm


From joncle at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:09:30 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:09:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 1:31?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> ? ? ? ? print k1
> ? ? ? ? print k2
>
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> Regards
>
> macm

I've tried to understand this, but can't tell if it's a question or
statement, and even then can't tell what the question or statement
is...

Care to eloborate?


From gordon at panix.com  Fri Nov 11 11:25:19 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:25:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9ji9f$69l$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d at j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> macm <moura.mario at gmail.com> writes:

> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.

> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):

That's not valid syntax.

> 	print k1
> 	print k2

> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

Are you stating this can be done, or are you asking if it can be done?
Questions usually end with a question mark.  (Are you a native English
speaker?)

> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

print "%s" % x

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:33:27 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:33:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hi

Sorry ! My mistake.

>>> myDict = {}
>>> myDict['foo'] = {}
>>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'

-----

>>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
...	# MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
['bar'])
...	# I want inspect this MyObj
...	# what keys was pass
...	print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
...	# So What I want is :
...	# return foo bar

----------------

>>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
>>> result

Should print :

... foo bar

Best Regards

macm



On Nov 11, 2:09?pm, Jon Clements <jon... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 1:31?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks
>
> > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> > ? ? ? ? print k1
> > ? ? ? ? print k2
>
> > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> > Regards
>
> > macm
>
> I've tried to understand this, but can't tell if it's a question or
> statement, and even then can't tell what the question or statement
> is...
>
> Care to eloborate?



From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:36:55 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:36:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9ji9f$69l$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <09bf2935-00e6-4ecb-a5fe-71566155f995@q16g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 2:25?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c... at j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
> > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>
> That's not valid syntax.
>
> > ? ?print k1
> > ? ?print k2
> > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> Are you stating this can be done, or are you asking if it can be done?
> Questions usually end with a question mark. ?(Are you a native English
> speaker?)
>
> > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> print "%s" % x
>
> --
> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

Hi John

I am not a native English speaker. Sorry bad english.

Regards

macm


From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:38:41 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7364dd9-7c9b-45a5-a38a-e94a05541eee@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Ok Sorry!!

Sorry the noise!!


def func(object):
    print "%s" % object


Regards



On Nov 11, 2:33?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sorry ! My mistake.
>
> >>> myDict = {}
> >>> myDict['foo'] = {}
> >>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'
>
> -----
>
> >>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
>
> ... ? ? # MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
> ['bar'])
> ... ? ? # I want inspect this MyObj
> ... ? ? # what keys was pass
> ... ? ? print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
> ... ? ? # So What I want is :
> ... ? ? # return foo bar
>
> ----------------
>
> >>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
> >>> result
>
> Should print :
>
> ... foo bar
>
> Best Regards
>
> macm
>
> On Nov 11, 2:09?pm, Jon Clements <jon... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 11, 1:31?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi Folks
>
> > > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> > > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> > > ? ? ? ? print k1
> > > ? ? ? ? print k2
>
> > > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> > > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> > > Regards
>
> > > macm
>
> > I've tried to understand this, but can't tell if it's a question or
> > statement, and even then can't tell what the question or statement
> > is...
>
> > Care to eloborate?



From d at davea.name  Fri Nov 11 11:47:21 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:21 -0500
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
In-Reply-To: <aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EBD5199.3010507@davea.name>

On 11/11/2011 11:33 AM, macm wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sorry ! My mistake.
>
>>>> myDict = {}
>>>> myDict['foo'] = {}
>>>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'
> -----
>
>>>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
> ...	# MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
> ['bar'])

No, it's not.   It's a string "works".  There's no dictionary passed to 
myFunction(), so it cannot do what you ask, slow or fast.

There are games you can play with introspection, but they are neither 
portable nor reliable.

> ...	# I want inspect this MyObj
> ...	# what keys was pass
> ...	print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
> ...	# So What I want is :
> ...	# return foo bar
>
> ----------------
>
>>>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
>>>> result
> Should print :
>
> ... foo bar
>
> Best Regards
>
> macm
Can you tell us the exact assignment, to see whether this is supposed to 
be a practical question, or a way to try to learn more about Python 
internals.



-- 

DaveA



From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Nov 11 11:52:25 2011
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:52:25 +0000
Subject: bug python2.3+zipimport+ubuntu 10.04 amd_64
Message-ID: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

I'm trying to run some aged software on a new machine which runs

Linux app2.reportlab.com 2.6.32-30-generic #59-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 21:30:46 UTC 
2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux  Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS

The software is required to use python 2.3 so first I've had some problems 
building python itself. Apparently to get rid of segfaults during the build we 
need the configure args to include

    BASECFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE

that certainly fixes the python build errors.

Now when we come to run the aged application we get this

$ ./xxx.cgi
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/rptlab/website/develop.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/xxx.cgi", line 7, in ?
     from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum


this appears to be related to the use of a zip import.

 > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join(os.getcwd(),"fastapp.zip"))
 > from fastwebapp import FastWebApp

if we unpack the zip and remove the path insert the application appears to run fine.

Googling appears to indicate that others have seen this error but on a different 
hardware and trying to remove optimizations from the python build has had 
variable success.

Anyone had any real success with this problem? The last version of the test 
machinery ran 32bit freebsd and we had no problems on that hardware.
-- 
Robin Becker



From gordon at panix.com  Fri Nov 11 12:28:52 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:28:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9jm0k$e6n$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951 at c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> macm <moura.mario at gmail.com> writes:

> >>> myDict = {}
> >>> myDict['foo'] = {}
> >>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'

> -----

> >>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
> ...	# MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
> ['bar'])
> ...	# I want inspect this MyObj
> ...	# what keys was pass
> ...	print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
> ...	# So What I want is :
> ...	# return foo bar

> ----------------

> >>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
> >>> result

> Should print :

> ... foo bar

I don't think there's a simple way to do what you want.

You could inspect the whole dictionary to find the keys that map to a
given value, like so:

def MyFunction(mydict, x):
  for k1 in mydict:
    for k2 in mydict[k1]:
      if mydict[k1][k2] == x:
        return "%s %s" % (k1, k2)

>>> print MyFunction(myDict, 'works')
>>> foo bar

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 12:29:59 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:29:59 +0100
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
In-Reply-To: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 02:31 PM, macm wrote:
> Hi Folks
> 
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
> 
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> 	print k1
> 	print k2
> 
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
> 
> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
> 
> Regards
> 
> macm


I think the answer to the question, that I don't really understand is:
No. This cannot be done.


However we might help you if you copy a COMPLETE standalone example of
your problem and if you try to re-explain once more what exactly you
want to do.

Ideally tell us even why you want to do it. Perhaps the solution is
something completely different.


Below I'm doing some guess work:


nesteddict = { 'a': { 'A' : 'value1 a_A' , 'B' : 'value2 a_B' },
               'b': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
               'c': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
             }

def mymagic_function(value):
   print 'the value is <%s>', value
   print('There is really no way knowing from where this value came\n'
        'except if you tell me in which dictionary you are supposed\n'
         'and if I just try to find all matches\n' )

value = nesteddict['a']['B']

mymagic_function(value)





From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Nov 11 12:44:22 2011
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:44:22 +0000
Subject: bug python2.3+zipimport+ubuntu 10.04 amd_64
In-Reply-To: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4EBD5EF6.3040203@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

OK it seems there's a bug in zipimport.c that was fixed in 2.4. I copied across 
the 2.4 version and after removing a single new error check the rebuilt python 
2.3 works fine. There was supposed to be a patch here

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Modules/zipimport.c?r1=1.16&r2=1.17

but it's a dead link.
-- 
Robin Becker
On 11/11/2011 16:52, Robin Becker wrote:
> I'm trying to run some aged software on a new machine which runs
>
> Linux app2.reportlab.com 2.6.32-30-generic #59-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 21:30:46 UTC
> 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS
>
> The software is required to use python 2.3 so first I've had some problems
> building python itself. Apparently to get rid of segfaults during the build we
> need the configure args to include
>
> BASECFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE
>
> that certainly fixes the python build errors.
>
> Now when we come to run the aged application we get this
>
> $ ./xxx.cgi
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/home/rptlab/website/develop.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/xxx.cgi", line 7, in ?
> from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
> OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum
>
>
> this appears to be related to the use of a zip import.
>
>  > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join(os.getcwd(),"fastapp.zip"))
>  > from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
>
> if we unpack the zip and remove the path insert the application appears to run
> fine.
>
> Googling appears to indicate that others have seen this error but on a different
> hardware and trying to remove optimizations from the python build has had
> variable success.
>
> Anyone had any real success with this problem? The last version of the test
> machinery ran 32bit freebsd and we had no problems on that hardware.





From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Nov 11 12:44:22 2011
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:44:22 +0000
Subject: bug python2.3+zipimport+ubuntu 10.04 amd_64
In-Reply-To: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4EBD5EF6.3040203@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

OK it seems there's a bug in zipimport.c that was fixed in 2.4. I copied across 
the 2.4 version and after removing a single new error check the rebuilt python 
2.3 works fine. There was supposed to be a patch here

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Modules/zipimport.c?r1=1.16&r2=1.17

but it's a dead link.
-- 
Robin Becker
On 11/11/2011 16:52, Robin Becker wrote:
> I'm trying to run some aged software on a new machine which runs
>
> Linux app2.reportlab.com 2.6.32-30-generic #59-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 21:30:46 UTC
> 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS
>
> The software is required to use python 2.3 so first I've had some problems
> building python itself. Apparently to get rid of segfaults during the build we
> need the configure args to include
>
> BASECFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE
>
> that certainly fixes the python build errors.
>
> Now when we come to run the aged application we get this
>
> $ ./xxx.cgi
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/home/rptlab/website/develop.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/xxx.cgi", line 7, in ?
> from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
> OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum
>
>
> this appears to be related to the use of a zip import.
>
>  > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join(os.getcwd(),"fastapp.zip"))
>  > from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
>
> if we unpack the zip and remove the path insert the application appears to run
> fine.
>
> Googling appears to indicate that others have seen this error but on a different
> hardware and trying to remove optimizations from the python build has had
> variable success.
>
> Anyone had any real success with this problem? The last version of the test
> machinery ran 32bit freebsd and we had no problems on that hardware.






From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 12:45:00 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:45:00 +0100
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
In-Reply-To: <j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j9jmus$ni2$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 02:31 PM, macm wrote:
> > Hi Folks
> >
> > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
> >
> > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> > 	print k1
> > 	print k2
> >
> > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
> >
> > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > macm


If my guessing was correct is this what you are looking for?


nesteddict = { 'a': { 'A' : 'value1 a_A' , 'B' : 'value2 a_B' },
               'b': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
               'c': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
             }

def find_in_nested_dict(adict, avalue):
    results = []
    for key1, sub_dict in adict.items():
        for key2, value in sub_dict.items():
            if avalue == value:
                results.append( (key1, key2) )
    return results

def mk_lookup(adict):
    lookup = {}
    for key1, sub_dict in adict.items():
        for key2, value in sub_dict.items():
            entry = lookup.get(value, [])
            entry.append( (key1, key2) )
            lookup[value] = entry
    return lookup

# good if you just want so search one value
value = nesteddict['c']['B']
keys =  find_in_nested_dict(nesteddict, value)
print "found %r in %r" % (value, keys)

# if you need many lookups perhaps better to 'precalculate a
# 'reversed' dict
lookup = mk_lookup(nesteddict)
keys =  lookup[value]
print "found %r in %r" % (value, keys)








From gordon at panix.com  Fri Nov 11 12:51:57 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:51:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2653.1321033516.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9jnbt$p0j$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2653.1321033516.27778.python-list at python.org> Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> writes:

> > > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
> > >
> > > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!


> If my guessing was correct is this what you are looking for?

He said he didn't want to loop over the dict contents.  Without
that, I don't think there's an answer for him.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From sky378 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 13:44:27 2011
From: sky378 at gmail.com (Arjuna Software)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:44:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SMS api for python
References: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <23f5c569-a131-4ffc-9ded-b07bcaffc83b@n38g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 21, 3:10?am, Pankaj <pankaj.anand... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to make an api that would recieve the SMS text from the user
> and process it then send the result back to the use. Is there any api
> that I can use to do this??

Send SMS Text messages using SMS API:
http://www.txtimpact.com/sms-gateway-api.asp
TxtImpact SMS API, you have access to powerful text messaging
functionality for integration into your existing and new web and
enterprise applications.
Text Messaging API or SMS API can enable application to receive and
send SMS text messages utilising txtimpact advanced SMS gateway API or
Text Messaging API. TxtImpact provides simple HTTP interface for
clients to send and receive messages from mobile phone users. HTTP
POST can be used in all modern programming languages including ASP,
ASP.NET, C++, C#, PHP, VB, VB.NET, command lines, SSH & cURL.


From sky378 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 13:44:41 2011
From: sky378 at gmail.com (Arjuna Software)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:44:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SMS api for python
References: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2117.1319186470.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5f098d1d-adf3-4c4c-83eb-31a7621a8e21@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 21, 4:41?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Pankaj <pankaj.anand... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I want to make an api that would recieve the SMS text from the user
> > and process it then send the result back to the use. Is there any api
> > that I can use to do this??
>
> There would seem to be several options:http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=sms&submit=search
>
> Cheers,
> Chris

Send SMS Text messages using SMS API:
http://www.txtimpact.com/sms-gateway-api.asp
TxtImpact SMS API, you have access to powerful text messaging
functionality for integration into your existing and new web and
enterprise applications.
Text Messaging API or SMS API can enable application to receive and
send SMS text messages utilising txtimpact advanced SMS gateway API or
Text Messaging API. TxtImpact provides simple HTTP interface for
clients to send and receive messages from mobile phone users. HTTP
POST can be used in all modern programming languages including ASP,
ASP.NET, C++, C#, PHP, VB, VB.NET, command lines, SSH & cURL.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Nov 11 13:47:13 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:47:13 -0800
Subject: How to dynamically create a derived type in the Python C-API
Message-ID: <4EBD6DB1.2070600@stoneleaf.us>

Asking on behalf of Sven Marnach:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Assume we have the type Noddy as defined in the tutorial on writing C 
extension modules for Python. Now we want to create a derived type, 
overwriting only the __new__() method of Noddy.

Currently I use the following approach (error checking stripped for 
readability):

PyTypeObject *BrownNoddyType =
     (PyTypeObject *)PyType_Type.tp_alloc(&PyType_Type, 0);
BrownNoddyType->tp_flags = Py_TPFLAGS_DEFAULT | Py_TPFLAGS_BASETYPE;
BrownNoddyType->tp_name = "noddy.BrownNoddy";
BrownNoddyType->tp_doc = "BrownNoddy objects";
BrownNoddyType->tp_base = &NoddyType;
BrownNoddyType->tp_new = BrownNoddy_new;
PyType_Ready(BrownNoddyType);

This works, but I'm not sure if it is The Right Way To Do It. I would 
have expected that I have to set the Py_TPFLAGS_HEAPTYPE flag, too, 
because I dynamically allocate the type object on the heap, but doing so 
leads to a segfault in the interpreter.

I also thought about explicitly calling type() using PyObject_Call() or 
similar, but I discarded the idea. I would need to wrap the function 
BrownNoddy_new() in a Python function object and create a dictionary 
mapping __new__ to this function object, which seems silly.

What is the best way to go about this? Is my approach correct? Is there 
an interface function I missed?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

~Ethan~


From cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 14:04:06 2011
From: cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com (BV)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:04:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DISCOVER ISLAM - THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD
	!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <e4d88ca8-de87-45c4-a649-2a2a48fa8a51@o14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Nov 11 15:08:13 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:08:13 -0800
Subject: How to dynamically create a derived type in the Python C-API
In-Reply-To: <4EBD6DB1.2070600@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EBD6DB1.2070600@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4EBD80AD.5020201@stoneleaf.us>

The question is on StackOverflow if you want to answer it directly:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8066438

~Ethan~


From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 15:27:49 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:27:49 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
Message-ID: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>



Hi,

I got some code.
- This code contains a package named tests
- there are at least 100 references in different python files
	importing from above mentioned tests package.
- the code also imports pytz at one place

I get following warning message:

/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
Module tests was already imported from
/home/user/myproject/tests/__init__.pyc, but
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
  from pkg_resources import resource_stream


Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
the rest of the code to import the other?

Python version is 2.6.5


Thanks in advance for any suggestion.











From emile at fenx.com  Fri Nov 11 16:31:03 2011
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:31:03 -0800
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 12:27 PM Gelonida N said...
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I got some code.
> - This code contains a package named tests
> - there are at least 100 references in different python files
> 	importing from above mentioned tests package.
> - the code also imports pytz at one place
>
> I get following warning message:
>
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
> Module tests was already imported from
> /home/user/myproject/tests/__init__.pyc, but
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
>    from pkg_resources import resource_stream
>
>
> Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
> the rest of the code to import the other?
>
> Python version is 2.6.5
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Start with 
http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-328-absolute-and-relative-imports

Emile




From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 16:34:07 2011
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:34:07 -0700
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I got some code.
> - This code contains a package named tests
> - there are at least 100 references in different python files
> ? ? ? ?importing from above mentioned tests package.
> - the code also imports pytz at one place
>
> I get following warning message:
>
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
> Module tests was already imported from
> /home/user/myproject/tests/__init__.pyc, but
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
> ?from pkg_resources import resource_stream
>
>
> Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
> the rest of the code to import the other?

This sounds like a problem caused by using relative imports.

Each import statement is made relative to some top-level module.  The
import mechanism looks for it in the directories in sys.path (first
match wins).  The interpreter adds the empty string to the beginning
of sys.path, by default.  The empty string represents the current
working directory.  An import referencing a module found there is
called a relative import.

Solution:

If possible, make sure each of your import statements is absolute (the
top-level module is in one of the [legit] sys.path directories).  Then
do one of the following:

 * sys.path.remove('');
 * call your script from a directory without any python modules in it;
 * call os.chdir(...) in your script to change CWD before making any imports.

This also means you shouldn't "test" your modules by just running them
as scripts.  Instead, write a separate test script that imports each
of your modules absolutely (and maybe actually test them too <wink>).

As of 2.5, Python's from...import syntax supports explicit relative
imports, with absolute imports as the default (sort of).  In 2.5 and
2.6 the feature is optional, so you must add "from __future__ import
absolute_import" to enable it.  See PEP 328[1].

The relative import syntax means that you don't have to hard-code the
name of the packages in your imports, which helps with brevity and
portability.

The problem is that the empty string is still added to the from of
sys.path.  I'm going to have to find out more about that one.

Hope that helps.

-eric

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/


>
> Python version is 2.6.5
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 16:51:12 2011
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:51:12 -0700
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7CkpFnRxG=Vf6uBpr3=Bn=rPZLY2L3LOA6eiGkzcQ_ZqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem is that the empty string is still added to the from of
> sys.path. ?I'm going to have to find out more about that one.

Okay, don't know how I missed it but the docs for sys.path[1] spell it out:

    "As initialized upon program startup, the first item of this list,
path[0], is the directory containing the script that was used to
invoke the Python interpreter. If the script directory is not
available (e.g. if the interpreter is invoked interactively or if the
script is read from standard input), path[0] is the empty string,
which directs Python to search modules in the current directory
first."

So if you run a module as a script, that empty string will be added to
sys.path and all imports will first check the directory you were in
when you ran Python...

-eric


[1] http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.path


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:07:16 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:07:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SMS api for python
In-Reply-To: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5179557.1489.1321049236343.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

You can use services like https://www.tropo.com/home.jsp or http://www.twilio.com/


From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:11:38 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:11:38 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org> <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j9k6ir$66g$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 10:31 PM, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 11/11/2011 12:27 PM Gelonida N said...
>> Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
>> the rest of the code to import the other?
>>
>> Python version is 2.6.5
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
> 
> Start with
> http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-328-absolute-and-relative-imports
> 
Thanks Emile / Thanks Eric


The from __future__ import absolute_import is already used in most files
of this project but only used for importing some other modules.
All the 'tests' modules are still imported with absolute imports.

'tests' is also a top level module of the existing project and being
imported from top level scripts (scripts in the python path directory)

Relative imports don't work on top level scripts as it would raise

> ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-pack

This is a legacy project where many tools assume a certain directory
structure and where I'm kind of hesitant to move files into differnt
directories.

What's probably the most painless fix would be
- force only certain (older?) versions of pytz (which don't expose
	this issue) to be installed.
- rename tests into something else. However this will affect
	loads of files. and I had to check whether there are no
	shell scripts or custom executables, which depend on 'tests'
	being called 'tests'

Pytz is only imported by one module, so I wondered if there were any
tricks to 'change sys.path' prior to importing pytz and to make sure,
that the projects 'tests' package and pytz's 'tests' package could co-exist.

What I wondered is whether there was a way to fix the issue without
having to 'touch' all the 100+ import statements spread over the project.

In the long term I suggest, that the project's code will be changed
such that it will no more conflict with pytz's tests package.
(either rename the package, transform it to a sub package, ... ???),







From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:47:14 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:47:14 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7CkpFnRxG=Vf6uBpr3=Bn=rPZLY2L3LOA6eiGkzcQ_ZqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>	<CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7CkpFnRxG=Vf6uBpr3=Bn=rPZLY2L3LOA6eiGkzcQ_ZqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9k8lj$k1k$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 10:51 PM, Eric Snow wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So if you run a module as a script, that empty string will be added to
> sys.path and all imports will first check the directory you were in
> when you ran Python...
> 

Yes that's normal (and for the rest of the code required
behaviour :-( )

The top level directory is no module, but just contains scripts
requiring, that '.' is in the python path.


In fact theissue can be reproduced rather easily.



Everything seems to work, but
I don't like having this warning.
Especially as the project contains a hook, which raises an alert as soon
as any module tries to send data to stderr. (reporting this as potential
failure of the application)

$ mkdir newdir
$ cd newdir
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ mkdir tests
$ echo print 1234 >  tests/__init__.py
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ python -c 'import tests ; import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION ;
reload(tests)'
1234
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
Module tests was already imported from tests/__init__.pyc, but
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
  from pkg_resources import resource_stream
2010b
1234
$


What does pytz want to tell me ?????



From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 19:20:09 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xmlrpclib date times and a trailing Z
Message-ID: <7d3e9e96-687f-4081-990e-46b7bb386925@d5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to connect to Marchex's a call tracking software using
xmlrpclib. I was able to get some code working, but I ran into a
problem dealing with transfering datetimes.

When I construct a xmlrpclib.ServerProxy, I am setting the
use_datetime flag to indicate that I want to automatically convert
back and forth between date times in the datetime library.

I have a working version that doesn't use this flag, and I have to
convert from the xmlrpclib.DateTime type to the datetime.datetime type
manually, via string parsing.

The thing is, Marchex's API returns date's with a trailing Z, after
the time component. I did some research and this is supposed to be an
indicator that UTC was used. However, it doesn't seem like the
xmlrpclib likes it very much.

It looks like it is using this code internally: time.strptime(data, "%Y
%m%dT%H:%M:%S")

This code doesn't look like it handles time zones at all. I guess, is
there a way to tell xmlrpclib to include time zones when parsing date
times?

Thanks,
Travis Parks


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 11 19:42:46 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 00:42:46 GMT
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org> <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2662.1321049516.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebdc106$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:11:38 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:

> Pytz is only imported by one module, so I wondered if there were any
> tricks to 'change sys.path' prior to importing pytz


sys.path is just a list of paths. You can import the sys module and 
manipulate it any way you like.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 11 20:18:26 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 01:18:26 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:35:32 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
>> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
>> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
>> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?
> 
> Then why doesn't Python do this anywhere else? e.g. why can I
> setattr(obj, 'a#b') when obj is any other mutable type?

That is implementation-specific behaviour and not documented behaviour 
for Python. If you try it in (say) IronPython or Jython, you may or may 
not see the same behaviour.

The docs for getattr state:

    getattr(x, 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar


which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b which 
will give a syntax error. The fact that CPython does less validation is 
arguably a bug and not something that you should rely on: it is *not* a 
promise of the language.

As Terry Reedy already mentioned, the namespace used in classes and 
instances are ordinary generic dicts, which don't perform any name 
validation. That's done for speed. Other implementations may use 
namespaces that enforce legal names for attributes, and __slots__ already 
does:

>>> class X(object):
...     __slots__ = ['a', 'b!']
... 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    __slots__ must be identifiers


[...]
> To go off on another tangent, though, I don't really understand how you
> guys can think this is reasonable, though. I don't get this philosophy
> of restricting inputs that would otherwise be perfectly valid

But they aren't perfectly valid. They are invalid inputs. Just because 
getattr and setattr in CPython allow you to create attributes with 
invalid names doesn't mean that everything else should be equally as 
slack.


-- 
Steven


From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 20:46:49 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:46:49 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts. (pytz version 2010b)
In-Reply-To: <4ebdc106$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>	<mailman.2662.1321049516.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc106$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j9kj69$geg$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/12/2011 01:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:11:38 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:
> 
>> Pytz is only imported by one module, so I wondered if there were any
>> tricks to 'change sys.path' prior to importing pytz
> 
> sys.path is just a list of paths. You can import the sys module and 
> manipulate it any way you like.
> 

Hmmm, I think I didn't express myself really well.

What I meant is:

Is there any successful trick, which can get rid of my warning.
I don't feel comfortable with warnings, that I don't understand.


Please see  below example (which can easily be reproduced, if you have
the right (wrong) version of pytz.


$ mkdir newdir
$ cd newdir
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ mkdir tests
$ echo print 1234 >  tests/__init__.py
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ python -c 'import tests ; import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION ;
reload(tests)'
1234

/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
Module tests was already imported from tests/__init__.pyc, but
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
  from pkg_resources import resource_stream
2010b
1234
$


What does pytz want to tell me ?????








From candide at free.invalid  Sat Nov 12 06:56:17 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:56:17 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
Message-ID: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

First, could you confirm the following syntax

import foo as f

equivalent to

import foo
f = foo



Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of the 
as syntax within an import statement. Here are some instances retrieved 
from real code of such a syntax

import numpy as np

import math as _math

import pickle as pickle


-- In the first case, the syntax is motivated by brevity need, isn't it ?
-- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math 
attribute to be private but I don't figure out why this matters.
-- In the last case, I can see no point

So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

Thanks for clarification.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 07:27:56 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:27:56 +1100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr1zfS9H5LJtLfqOpS0+BKOuQ_CEbxzcHWn_Fv+JqC-BA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> import foo as f
>
> equivalent to
>
> import foo
> f = foo
>

Not quite, it's closer to:

import foo
f = foo
del foo

without the fiddling around. What the 'import... as' syntax gives is a
way to separate the thing loaded from the name bound to. Suppose
importing were done thus:

foo = import("foo.py")

Then you'd have a standard convention of always importing into a
variable of the same name (loose terminology, but you know what I
mean), with the option of importing as something completely different.
The "import... as" syntax gives the same power, without forcing you to
repeat yourself in the common situation.

ChrisA


From arnodel at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 07:29:26 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:29:26 +0000
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Ya=vLyYip_w7LopF0wBD2EZcc7-LOGBVTr0vhb+2ZQNg@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 November 2011 11:56, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> First, could you confirm the following syntax
>
> import foo as f
>
> equivalent to
>
> import foo
> f = foo
>
>
>
> Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of the as
> syntax within an import statement. Here are some instances retrieved from
> real code of such a syntax
>
> import numpy as np
>
> import math as _math
>
> import pickle as pickle
>
>
> -- In the first case, the syntax is motivated by brevity need, isn't it ?

Correct!

> -- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math attribute
> to be private but I don't figure out why this matters.

This way math doesn't get bound in the global namespace when doing
"from module import *"

> -- In the last case, I can see no point

Neither can I

> So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

It can also help when you want to import two different modules with
the same name.

-- 
Arnaud


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Nov 12 07:43:06 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 06:43:06 -0600
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/12/11 05:56, candide wrote:
> First, could you confirm the following syntax
>
> import foo as f
>
> equivalent to
>
> import foo
> f = foo

and the issuing "del foo"


> Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of the
> as syntax within an import statement. Here are some instances retrieved
> from real code of such a syntax
>
> import numpy as np
> import math as _math
> import pickle as pickle
>
> -- In the last case, I can see no point

Without context, I'm guessing the last one is merely keeping 
parity in a block that reads:

   try:
     import cPickle as pickle
   except ImportError:
     import pickle as pickle



> So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

The most common use-case I see is your first:  to shorten a 
frequently-used namespace.  I do this frequently with

   import Tkinter as tk

which makes it obvious where things are coming from.  I hate 
trying to track down variable-names if one did something like

   from Tkinter import *


The second big use case I see regularly is the full example 
(above):  try to import a faster/native module that shares an 
interface with a pure-python implementation.  However in the 
above, the "import pickle as pickle" is a uselessly redundant.

-tkc




From rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 07:48:04 2011
From: rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rafael_Dur=E1n_Casta=F1eda?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:48:04 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4EBE6B04.6040900@gmail.com>

El 12/11/11 13:43, Tim Chase escribi?:
>   I hate trying to track down variable-names if one did something like
>
>   from Tkinter import *
>
+1


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Sat Nov 12 08:03:29 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:03:29 +0000
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1321103009.23677.32.camel@tim-laptop>

On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 12:56 +0100, candide wrote:

> So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

Another case:

try:
    import json
except:
    import simplejson as json


(same goes for several modules where the C implementation may or may not
be available)

Tim



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Nov 12 08:59:40 2011
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:59:40 -0500
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <j9lu4p$qqa$1@speranza.aioe.org>

candide wrote:

> First, could you confirm the following syntax
> 
> import foo as f
> 
> equivalent to
> 
> import foo
> f = foo
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of 
the
> as syntax within an import statement. [ ... ]

It gives you an out in a case like

Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:09:56) 
[GCC 4.4.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> os = 5      # number of 'o's
>>> import os as opsys
>>> os
5
>>> opsys
<module 'os' from '/usr/lib/python2.6/os.pyc'>

(This is an instance of what arnaud mentioned.)

	Mel.


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Dear Colleague,

Within the 10th International Symposium on Biomechanics and Biomedical
Engineering - CMBBE2012 (http://www.cmbbe2012.cf.ac.uk), to be held in
Berlin, Germany, on April 11-14, 2012, we are organizing the Special
Session on ?Computational Methods for Bio- Imaging and Visualization?.
Due to your research activities in the related fields, we would like
to invite you to submit an abstract to our special session. Your
contribution is mostly welcomed, and we would be honoured if you could
accept this invitation.


TOPICS OF INTEREST (not restricted to):

- Applications of Bio- Imaging and Visualization;
- Computational Vision;
- Computer Aided Diagnosis, Surgery, Therapy, and Treatment;
- Image Acquisition;
- Image Processing and Analysis;
- Image Segmentation, Matching and Registration;
- Medical Imaging;
- Motion and Deformation Analysis;
- Physics of Bio-Imaging;
- Scientific Visualization;
- Shape Reconstruction;
- Simulation and Animation;
- Software Development;
- Telemedicine Systems and their Applications.


IMPORTANT DATES:

- Abstract submission cut off: December 16, 2011;
- Meeting: April 11-14, 2012.


ABSTRACT SUBMISSION:

Please, go to the abstract submission page (http://
www.cmbbe2012.cf.ac.uk/abstract%20-%20author.asp) and select the
Special Session ?SS5 - Computational Methods for Bio- Imaging and
Visualization?.


With kind regards,

Jo?o Manuel R. S. Tavares, University of Porto, Portugal,
tavares at fe.up.pt
(Organizer of the Special Session on ?Computational Methods for Bio-
Imaging and Visualization?)


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 11:11:21 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2532.1320729013.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb929020-f4e3-4966-8826-4aa9f6d15c9a@u5g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 8, 12:09?am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/08/2011 01:21 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 7, 12:44 pm, John Gordon<gor... at panix.com> ?wrote:
> >> In<j98tnf$qh... at reader1.panix.com> ?John Gordon<gor... at panix.com> ?writes:
>
> >>> In<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b450... at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> ?Travis Parks<jehugalea... at gmail.com> ?writes:
> >>>> Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> >>>> to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> >>>> good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
> >>> I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework. ?However I've
> >>> only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.
>
> >> You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)
>
> >> The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
> >> native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.
>
> >> I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
> >> project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data. ?(But I'd be surprised
> >> if it had poor performance.)
>
> >> The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
> >> given URL with a given method call.
>
> >> Community support is excellent.
>
> >> --
> >> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> >> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
>
> > I started the battle today. The "new guy" was trying to sell me on
> > CodeIgnitor. I haven't looked at it, but it is PHP, so I really want
> > to avoid it. The good thing is that all of his "friends" have been
> > telling him to get into Python. I have been trying to convince him
> > that PHP isn't cut out for background services and is mostly a front-
> > end language. Python is much more geared towards hardcore data
> > processing. Why write the system in two languages?
>
> > I have been spending a lot of time looking at the Pyramid project: the
> > next generation of the Pylons project. It looks powerful, but it seems
> > to be a lot more complex than Django.
>
> CodeIgniter is a very fine framework, however it builds on top of a
> shitty excuse of a language called PHP.
>
> I've found that Django has a much better debugging tools; when a Django
> page produces an exception, it would always produce a useful error page.
> I haven't been able to do the same in CodeIgniter (nor in any PHP
> framework I've used, I'm starting to think it's a language limitation);
> often when you have errors, PHP would just silently return empty or
> partial pages even with all the debugging flags on.
>
> IMO, Python has a much nicer choice of built-in data structure for data
> processing. Python has a much more mature object-orientation, e.g. I
> prefer writing l.append(x) rather than array_push(l, x). I think these
> qualities are what makes you think Python is much, much more suitable
> for data processing than PHP; and I wholesomely agree.
>
> Database abstraction-wise, Django's ORM wins hands down against
> CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord. CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord is basically just
> a thin wrapper that abstracts the perks of various database engine.
> Django's ORM is a full blown ORM, it handles foreign key relationships
> in OO way. The only disadvantage of Django's ORM is that since it's
> written in Python, if you need to write a program working on the same
> database that doesn't use Django nor Python, then you'll have a problem
> since you'll have to duplicate the foreign key relationships.
>
> With all the bashing of PHP, PHP do have a few advantages. PHP and
> CodeIgniter is much easier to set up and running than Django; and the
> ability to create a .php file and have it running without having to
> write the routing file is sometimes a bliss. And PHP are often used as
> their own templating language; in contrast with Django which uses a
> separate templating language. Having a full blown language as your
> templating language can be a double-edged sword, but it is useful
> nevertheless for experimental work.
>
> IMO, while it is easier to get up and running in PHP, in the long run
> Python is much better in almost any other aspects.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The good thing is that I got the new guy to convert his thinking
towards Python. He did a little research of his own and realized what
he was missing.

He and I have been writing some tools in Python, accessing social
networking sites, and have been pleasantly surprised by Python's rich
support for web protocols. Even yesterday, I wrote some code using
xmlrpclib and it blew the equivalent C# code out of the water. urllib2
and urlparse make it really easy to work against RESTful services. It
seems like most of Google's APIs have a Python variant.

We are thinking we will go along with Pyramid, rather than Django. It
was a really hard decision to make. Django has a lot of community
support and is integrated with PyDev in eclipse. Nonetheless, we are
anticipating the need for massive through-put on our web servers, so
we want to make sure we don't have to change gears 2 years down the
road when we have 100,000+ users. Furthermore, it seems like Django
doesn't allow for customization - we might want to switch between ORMs
and the template engine.

It is going to be an interesting process of moving from an ASP.NET MVC
application to 100% Python. We'll see how well we can scaffold them
together.


From krzysztof.berniak at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 13:54:12 2011
From: krzysztof.berniak at gmail.com (Krzysztof Berniak)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:54:12 +0100
Subject: export output from gnuplot to python
Message-ID: <CAJBOCFJSEexypqVeMas8c-Hv4nFMYJ07uA2BwmFXo1TtEYMAEw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm writing script in python, which fitting exponencial curve to data (
f(x) = a*exp(x*b).
To this problem, I use gnuplot in my script. Gnuplot display parameters ( a
+/- delta a; b +/- delta b)
How Can I use/save this parameters in python variables in next steps of my
script,

def main():
   ...


    plot = Gnuplot.Gnuplot()

    plot('f1(x) = a1*exp(b1*x)')
    plot('a1 = 300; b1 = 0.005;')
    plot('fit f1(x) "data.txt" using 1:2 via a1, b1')

    print "first parameter", a1
    print "second parameter", b1   # is it feasible ? Or there is another
way to see the results ( parameter a1 and b1) of gnuplot by python
    ...
    #plot('set terminal postscript')
    #plot('set output "output.p <http://output.ps/>s"')


regards and please help,
Cristopher
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From lbrt  Sat Nov 12 14:06:32 2011
From: lbrt (lbrt)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 19:06:32 GMT
Subject: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors + issues
	...
Message-ID: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>

~ 
 I did find my way (through a silly hack) to get all files within a size range without waiting for youtube-dl to be "enhanced". You could simply run youtube-dl in simulate mode and then parse that data to get the info
~ 
$ youtube-dl --help | grep simulate
    -s, --simulate           do not download the video and do not write anything to disk
    -g, --get-url            simulate, quiet but print URL
    -e, --get-title          simulate, quiet but print title
    --get-thumbnail          simulate, quiet but print thumbnail URL
    --get-description        simulate, quiet but print video description
    --get-filename           simulate, quiet but print output filename
    --get-format             simulate, quiet but print output format
~ 
 it turns out I needed the data anyway and %(uploader)s %(stitle)s and %(ext)s are helpful as well, for example, in case you decide to skip a certain uploader
~ 
 I have also been getting errors reporting:
~ 
 RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 What does it mean? Is it a youtube thing or a python/youtube-dl one (or both)? Could you fix that with some flag?
~ 
 It would be very helpful if you could redirect youtube-dl errors to a separate file you would indicate via a flag
~ 
 lbrtchx
 comp.lang.python: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors + issues ...
~ 
// __ ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD-66LHJF9E
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] TD-66LHJF9E: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] TD-66LHJF9E: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] TD-66LHJF9E: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-TD-66LHJF9E_Trading_Mom.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft5fFOktUno
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] Ft5fFOktUno: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] Ft5fFOktUno: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] Ft5fFOktUno: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-Ft5fFOktUno_Speed_Racer_The_Movie.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRbAGrIjCr4
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] wRbAGrIjCr4: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] wRbAGrIjCr4: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] wRbAGrIjCr4: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-wRbAGrIjCr4_Jonah_A_VeggieTales_Movie.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0KpRBkeMY
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] yU0KpRBkeMY: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] yU0KpRBkeMY: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] yU0KpRBkeMY: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-yU0KpRBkeMY_Hercules_In_New_York.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 


From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 18:53:06 2011
From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:53:06 +0100
Subject: occupywallst.org is looking for Python programmers
Message-ID: <CALUgi081HW6HAPyp5MEYHD9DAVcWEF4yjoTzdTfcjj_zOCrwNg@mail.gmail.com>

just got this from Richard:

Justine <justine at occupywallst.org> told me they are looking for Python
programmers.  (It involves Django also.)

so, if anyone is interested to help them out, please contact Justine.

Best wishes

Harald

-- 
Harald Armin Massa
no fx, no carrier pigeon
-


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 12 18:54:00 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 23:54:00 GMT
Subject: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors +
	issues ...
References: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4ebf0718$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:06:32 +0000, lbrt chx _ gemale wrote:

>  I have also been getting errors reporting:
> ~
>  RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
> ~
>  What does it mean? Is it a youtube thing or a python/youtube-dl one (or
>  both)? Could you fix that with some flag?

Try installing rtmpdump.

BTW, your first call before asking here about random problems should be 
to use the search engine of your choice to google for more information:

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=rtmpdump



-- 
Steven


From ramapraba2653 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 00:56:56 2011
From: ramapraba2653 at gmail.com (SUPREME)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:56:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SOUTH INDIAN HOT ACTRESS
Message-ID: <b2366da2-7b4a-4381-a2d3-c41c1bb6cb19@s35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

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From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 01:28:31 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 01:28:31 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+RbK8Gt1bCzUA6SCWtRfXfwoFJS2WAHDjBu3bxOAypNQ@mail.gmail.com>

> which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b

No, it does not. The documentation states equivalence for two
particular values, and there is no way to deduce truth for all cases
from that. In fact, if it _was_ trying to say it was true for any
attribute value, then your example would be proof that the
documentation is incorrect, since CPython breaks that equivalence.

Devin

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:35:32 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
>>> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
>>> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
>>> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?
>>
>> Then why doesn't Python do this anywhere else? e.g. why can I
>> setattr(obj, 'a#b') when obj is any other mutable type?
>
> That is implementation-specific behaviour and not documented behaviour
> for Python. If you try it in (say) IronPython or Jython, you may or may
> not see the same behaviour.
>
> The docs for getattr state:
>
> ? ?getattr(x, 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar
>
>
> which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b which
> will give a syntax error. The fact that CPython does less validation is
> arguably a bug and not something that you should rely on: it is *not* a
> promise of the language.
>
> As Terry Reedy already mentioned, the namespace used in classes and
> instances are ordinary generic dicts, which don't perform any name
> validation. That's done for speed. Other implementations may use
> namespaces that enforce legal names for attributes, and __slots__ already
> does:
>
>>>> class X(object):
> ... ? ? __slots__ = ['a', 'b!']
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
> ? ?__slots__ must be identifiers
>
>
> [...]
>> To go off on another tangent, though, I don't really understand how you
>> guys can think this is reasonable, though. I don't get this philosophy
>> of restricting inputs that would otherwise be perfectly valid
>
> But they aren't perfectly valid. They are invalid inputs. Just because
> getattr and setattr in CPython allow you to create attributes with
> invalid names doesn't mean that everything else should be equally as
> slack.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From oleg.rimko at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 03:55:16 2011
From: oleg.rimko at gmail.com (0xfn)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:55:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2671.1321102090.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <54b0617a-3456-4878-819c-f79b388232ea@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 12, 7:48?am, Rafael Dur?n Casta?eda
<rafadurancastan... at gmail.com> wrote:
> El 12/11/11 13:43, Tim Chase escribi?:> ? I hate trying to track down variable-names if one did something like
>
> > ? from Tkinter import *
>
> +1

Really, this questionable code is always mentioned as example in
Tkinter tuts.
IMHO much better is
>>> import Tkinter as tk
In common case `as` is useful when:
1. You `import ThirdPartyModuleWithTerriblyLongName as tpm`
2. Whant to free some common variable name, which is engaged by module
name by default
   (right what Mel Wilson has pictured)


From anssi.kaariainen at thl.fi  Sun Nov 13 07:28:16 2011
From: anssi.kaariainen at thl.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?K=E4=E4ri=E4inen_Anssi?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:28:16 +0200
Subject: Dynamically altering __init__
In-Reply-To: <BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A78864133088@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>
References: <BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A78864133085@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>,
	<CALwzidkhEv9-HXhj5L02gABjGe2Yw5nEOz9KKaR8ONxYXNMeKQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A78864133088@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>
Message-ID: <BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A7886413311F@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>

I wrote:
"""
I will post a link to a complete example once I have done the AST
transformations etc. I hope this will be useful to readers of this list.
I didn't find such an example, so maybe the next asker will find it...
"""

Finally got time to do this. The example can be found at:
https://github.com/akaariai/ast_model

In the example I rewrote a small part of Django's model __init__ to
use:
    self.field1, self.field2, ... = args
instead of:
    for f_name, val in izip(field_names, args):
        setattr(self, f_name, val)

The speedup of that rewrote is about 50% for a model having 10 fields.

The example implementation might not be optimal, but it seems to
work. I hope it will be useful to the readers of this list. It was a nice
learning experience for me.

Thanks for your help,
 - Anssi K??ri?inen


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov 13 08:30:37 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 13 Nov 2011 13:30:37 GMT
Subject: How to indent blocks when readline completion is on?
Message-ID: <4ebfc67c$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I have set up readline completion as described here:

http://docs.python.org/library/rlcompleter.html

Now how do I indent blocks in the interactive interpreter? If I press the 
TAB key, the completer prompts me instead of indenting:

>>> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>>> while True:
... 
Display all 182 possibilities? (y or n)
... 


Surely I'm not stuck with indenting by manually typing spaces?


I thought I could add a wrapper around the rlcompleter method, like this:

>>> import readline
>>> import rlcompleter
>>> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>>> completer = readline.get_completer()
>>> def wrapped_completer(text, state):
...     if not text or text.isspace():
...         return "\t"
...     else:
...         return completer(text, state)
... 
>>> readline.set_completer(wrapped_completer)


Completion appears to work if I have something in the line to start with, 
e.g. if I type "whi" TAB "Tr" TAB I get "while True", but if I press TAB 
on an empty line (intending to get an actual tab character for 
indentation), it plays merry havoc with my session. All keyboard input 
appears to be dead, eventually I used Ctrl-Z to interrupt the process and 
killed it from the shell.


-- 
Steven


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 08:32:39 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:32:39 +1100
Subject: socket.socket.makefile
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1NEVsB2skb2jCiLRpvK_tOvAh3+ukRVcSeW4tDN_30-ag@mail.gmail.com>

I'm writing an alternative socket module, and have come across the
code for the makefile call, which mentions the following:
(XXX refactor to share code?)
http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/27adb952813b/Lib/socket.py#l149
Has this been refactored elsewhere? Is there something I can use to
wrap the SocketIO inheriting from RawIOBase in all the variants the
io.open/socket.makefile functions return for me?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 09:40:28 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 01:40:28 +1100
Subject: How to indent blocks when readline completion is on?
In-Reply-To: <4ebfc67c$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ebfc67c$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoG+GV4h+Q4L9RLOepmOXW8knU-yPDhAK=Qq1KEUxkDfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I thought I could add a wrapper around the rlcompleter method, like this:
>
>>>> import readline
>>>> import rlcompleter
>>>> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>>>> completer = readline.get_completer()
>>>> def wrapped_completer(text, state):
> ... ? ? if not text or text.isspace():
> ... ? ? ? ? return "\t"
> ... ? ? else:
> ... ? ? ? ? return completer(text, state)
> ...
>>>> readline.set_completer(wrapped_completer)

Attempting to duplicate this failed in my Py3 (no readline module -
probably I didn't have the dev version when I built that Python), but
in Py2, I can see the same issue. The wrapped_completer function is
called repeatedly with successive values for 'state', and it needs to
return None at some point to indicate that there are no more
possibilities. (Why isn't it specced to simply return an iterable?)

>>> def wrapped_completer(text, state):
...     if not text or text.isspace():
...         if state: return None
...         return "\t"
...     else:
...         return completer(text, state)
...

This function appears (to me!) to do what you're looking for; it
allows me to enter tabs while still using tab completion. However, I
seem to have some slightly different tab-completion settings somewhere
(for instance, typing "whi" <TAB> produces "while" with no space after
it, so I need to type " Tr" not "Tr"), so this may not work on your
setup.

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 12:37:25 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 09:37:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xmlrpclib date times and a trailing Z
References: <7d3e9e96-687f-4081-990e-46b7bb386925@d5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8009b627-be86-495f-85d7-8fac6522fe8d@y12g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 7:20?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to connect to Marchex's a call tracking software using
> xmlrpclib. I was able to get some code working, but I ran into a
> problem dealing with transfering datetimes.
>
> When I construct a xmlrpclib.ServerProxy, I am setting the
> use_datetime flag to indicate that I want to automatically convert
> back and forth between date times in the datetime library.
>
> I have a working version that doesn't use this flag, and I have to
> convert from the xmlrpclib.DateTime type to the datetime.datetime type
> manually, via string parsing.
>
> The thing is, Marchex's API returns date's with a trailing Z, after
> the time component. I did some research and this is supposed to be an
> indicator that UTC was used. However, it doesn't seem like the
> xmlrpclib likes it very much.
>
> It looks like it is using this code internally: time.strptime(data, "%Y
> %m%dT%H:%M:%S")
>
> This code doesn't look like it handles time zones at all. I guess, is
> there a way to tell xmlrpclib to include time zones when parsing date
> times?
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

I did some chatting on IRC and it seems that the date/time format is
not very well defined in XML RPC specs. So, basically, Marchex is
using a format that the XML RPC library doesn't support. Strangely,
Marchex supports incoming dates with the format yyyyMMddThhmmss. It
just spits dates back out with yyyy-MM-ddThh:mm:ssZ. The ISO8601
standard seems to be used a lot, so it is surprising the library
doesn't try multiple formats, at least.

I find it strange that the library, in light of the fact that date
formats aren't standardized, doesn't provide the ability to configure
this. I also find it strange that the library doesn't incorporate
Basic Authentication using urllib2, but instead rolls its own method
of putting username:password@ before the netloc.

I wish Python's libraries acted more like an integrated framework than
just unrelated libraries. I suppose I am spoiled from years of working
with all-in-one frameworks managed by a single group. That is not the
way C/C++ works or how Linux works. The power generated by using a
conglomeration of unrelated libraries is indisputable, even if it can
be a productivity killer and just plain confusing.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sun Nov 13 12:46:18 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 09:46:18 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
Message-ID: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>

For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then 
something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any 
better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went 
OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I 
went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to 
write over the python25 folder.

I figured maybe I should ask about this. It's probably OK. Yes, I know I 
have an old version of Python, but I need it occasionally.

Comments?


From steve at sprangle.com  Sun Nov 13 13:17:59 2011
From: steve at sprangle.com (Steve Edlefsen)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:17:59 -0700
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
Message-ID: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to install a tool for Plone called ZopeSkel, but
when I run the setup file ez_setup.py, I get

dr_shred at merle:~$ ez_setup.py
Downloading 
http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.4/s/setuptools/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.4.egg
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/dr_shred/python/ez_setup.py", line 279, in ?
     main(sys.argv[1:])
   File "/home/dr_shred/python/ez_setup.py", line 213, in main
     from setuptools.command.easy_install import main
zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available

I believe this means the python installation didn't include zlib.  Python
was installed with Plone and has the following config directory:

dr_shred at merle:/usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config$ ls -l
total 10208
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     2139 2011-10-24 17:53 config.c
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     1507 2011-10-24 17:53 config.c.in
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root     7122 2011-10-24 17:53 install-sh
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10342706 2011-10-24 17:53 libpython2.6.a
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    42568 2011-10-24 17:53 Makefile
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root     7431 2011-10-24 17:53 makesetup
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     6528 2011-10-24 17:53 python.o
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    18265 2011-10-24 17:53 Setup
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root      368 2011-10-24 17:53 Setup.config
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root       41 2011-10-24 17:53 Setup.local

There's no readme file, or anything to describe how it all works.
The Setup file has an entry

zlib zlibmodule.c -I$(prefix)/include -L$(exec_prefix)/lib -lz

which appears to install zlib when python is reinstalled.  Except I
can't run make without errors and there is no configuration file.

How do I reinstall python to include zlib?

Many Thanks,

Steve Edlefsen



From jason.swails at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 13:27:05 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:27:05 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm trying my hand at creating a Tkinter application, but not having much
luck.  I'm trying to have my top level window be a series of buttons with
different options on them.  Every time a button is pressed, it opens up a
new window with options.  While that new window is open, all of the buttons
on the original window are disabled.  However, I want all of those buttons
to become active again once I quit my new window.  I can't seem to
reactivate those buttons no matter what I do.

This is the approach I'm trying:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from Tkinter import *

class ActionButton(Button):
   def __init__(self, frame, text):
      self.frame = frame
      Button.__init__(self, master=self.frame, text=text,
command=self.execute)
   def execute(self):
      window = Toplevel()
      new_button = ActionButton(window, '2nd level button')
      quit_button = Button(window, text='Quit!', command=window.destroy)
      window.buttons = [new_button, quit_button]
      for button in window.buttons: button.pack()
      # Deactivate buttons from containing shell
      for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=DISABLED)
      window.mainloop()
      for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=ACTIVE)


top = Tk()
top_button = ActionButton(top, 'Button on top!')
top_button.pack()
quit_button = Button(top, text='Quit', command=top.destroy)
quit_button.pack()

top.buttons = [top_button, quit_button]

top.mainloop()

I'm really kind of running around in the dark here, so any advice or
explanation is appreciated.

Thanks!
Jason
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From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Sun Nov 13 14:08:32 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:08:32 +0100
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec015b0$0$6927$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 13-11-11 18:46, W. eWatson wrote:
> For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then
> something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any
> better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went
> OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I
> went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to
> write over the python25 folder.
>
> I figured maybe I should ask about this. It's probably OK. Yes, I know I
> have an old version of Python, but I need it occasionally.
>
> Comments?

Just go ahead and manually delete c:\python25 and everything in it.
But make sure that the leftover stuff in there is something you won't 
need again, or that you can get back by re-installing the third party 
library that it was part of.

Then re-install from the 2.5.2 msi. (Or perhaps 2.5.4).

Irmen



From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Sun Nov 13 16:55:05 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:55:05 +0000
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>
Message-ID: <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>

On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 11:17 -0700, Steve Edlefsen wrote:
> 
> which appears to install zlib when python is reinstalled.  Except I
> can't run make without errors and there is no configuration file.
> 
> How do I reinstall python to include zlib?

Which OS are you on? Linux? BSD?

How did you install Plone?

First I'd check if there's a module shadowing the builtin zlib module -
i.e. if you've got a local file called "zlib.py" which is getting
imported by mistake.


Fairly much all *nix systems will have a python installation out of the
box - it looks like you need python2.6

I've never had a missing zlib module - but it's possible that it might
be missing if you don't have the zlib/deflate headers installed - if
they're not available then I'd try installing them and then reinstalling
the package you started with.

Tim Wintle



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 13 17:08:53 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:08:53 -0500
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9pf5n$27v$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/13/2011 12:46 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then
> something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any
> better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went
> OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I
> went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to
> write over the python25 folder.

Uninstall (should) only uninstall files that it installed and 
directories that are empty. The 'several py files' should be files that 
you or some third-party software installed. I personally put everything 
I write under /pythonxy in a subdirectory thereof that install and 
uninstall pay no attention to. The Lib directory contains all the 
python-coded stdlib modules. Unless you know there is something that you 
wrote that you want, I would delete it before re-installing.

I suspect that current installers work a bit better than 2.5. I would 
definitely use the latest 2.5.z that comes with an installer and not 
2.5.2. They are all the same version of the language. The only 
difference is bug fixes.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 13 17:16:38 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:16:38 -0500
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <54b0617a-3456-4878-819c-f79b388232ea@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2671.1321102090.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<54b0617a-3456-4878-819c-f79b388232ea@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9pfk7$50s$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/13/2011 3:55 AM, 0xfn wrote:
> On Nov 12, 7:48 am, Rafael Dur?n Casta?eda
> <rafadurancastan... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> El 12/11/11 13:43, Tim Chase escribi?:>     I hate trying to track down variable-names if one did something like
>>
>>>    from Tkinter import *
>>
>> +1
>
> Really, this questionable code is always mentioned as example in
> Tkinter tuts.

I see it is still in the 3.2 tkinter doc, near the top.

> IMHO much better is
>>>> import Tkinter as tk

My opinion also. I will think about changing it someday, but then all 
the examples will need to be changed ;-). So it will not be trivial.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From goldtech at worldpost.com  Sun Nov 13 17:37:01 2011
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trying to write beautifulsoup result to a file and get error message
Message-ID: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

If I try:
...
soup = BeautifulSoup(ft3)
f = open(r'c:\NewFolder\clean4.html', "w")
f.write(soup)
f.close()

I get error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\user01\Desktop\py\tb1a.py", line
203, in <module>
    f.write(soup)
TypeError: expected a character buffer object

I want to write beautiful soup's result to a file, I am doing
something wrong. Help appreciated.

Thanks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Nov 13 18:31:52 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:31:52 +0000
Subject: Trying to write beautifulsoup result to a file and get error
	message
In-Reply-To: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC05368.1060408@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 13/11/2011 22:37, goldtech wrote:
> If I try:
> ...
> soup = BeautifulSoup(ft3)
> f = open(r'c:\NewFolder\clean4.html', "w")
> f.write(soup)
> f.close()
>
> I get error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "C:\Documents and Settings\user01\Desktop\py\tb1a.py", line
> 203, in<module>
>      f.write(soup)
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>
> I want to write beautiful soup's result to a file, I am doing
> something wrong. Help appreciated.
>
What do you mean by "beautiful soup's result"?

The original HTML is text, and you want it to write some text to the
file, but what exactly are you expecting it to write?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sun Nov 13 19:06:50 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:06:50 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/13/2011 2:08 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/13/2011 12:46 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then
>> something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any
>> better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went
>> OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I
>> went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to
>> write over the python25 folder.
>
> Uninstall (should) only uninstall files that it installed and
> directories that are empty. The 'several py files' should be files that
> you or some third-party software installed. I personally put everything
> I write under /pythonxy in a subdirectory thereof that install and
> uninstall pay no attention to. The Lib directory contains all the
> python-coded stdlib modules. Unless you know there is something that you
> wrote that you want, I would delete it before re-installing.
>
> I suspect that current installers work a bit better than 2.5. I would
> definitely use the latest 2.5.z that comes with an installer and not
> 2.5.2. They are all the same version of the language. The only
> difference is bug fixes.
>
Thanks to both of you. Deleting python25 folder. Nothing of personal use 
in it.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sun Nov 13 19:17:11 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:17:11 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>

Well, let be a careful a little more. I have PIL, numpy, scipy, 
pymatplotlib and pyephem installed, I think. There are Remove....exe 
files in the python25 folder for them.  There's also a Removepy2exe.exe. 
Probably that was somehow used to get out py2.5.


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sun Nov 13 19:27:35 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:27:35 +0900
Subject: [ANN] PikoTest.py - a small testing library
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rts8MYZGU6F-Ktb-bsVK622x9ozT0G2b4OyE8LQSsy4eQ@mail.gmail.com>

I released PikoTest.py 0.1.0.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PicoTest

PikoTest.py is a samll testing library for Python.

Features:

* Structured Test
* Setup/Teardown
* Fixture Injection
* Skip Test
* TODO

Example::

    from __future__ import with_statement
    import picotest
    test = picotest.new()

    with test("type 'str'"):

        with test("operator '*'"):

            @test("repeats string N times.")
            def _(self):
                self.assertEqual("AAA", "A" * 3)

            @test("returns empty string when N is negative.")
            def _(self):
                self.assertEqual("", "A" * -1)

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        picotest.main()


Output example::

    $ python -m picotest -h        # show help
    $ python example_test.py       # or python -m picotest example_test.py
    #### example_test.py
    * type 'str'
      * operator '*'
        - [passed] repeats string N times.
        - [passed] returns empty string when N is negative.
    ## total:2, passed:2, failed:0, error:0, skipped:0, todo:0


See http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PicoTest for details.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From vugluskr at vugluskr.org.ua  Sun Nov 13 19:58:44 2011
From: vugluskr at vugluskr.org.ua (=?UTF-8?B?0JHQvtCz0YPQvSDQlNC80LjRgtGA0LjQuQ==?=)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:58:44 +0200
Subject: Slave to master auto linking.
Message-ID: <4EC067C4.7040009@vugluskr.org.ua>

Hello.
I try make some weird thing. I want to get from code like this:
class master:
     ...
     class slave:
         ...

m = master()
s = m.slave()
s.master is m

Last expression must be true. I want link "master" to be set 
automatically by master object while creating slave object. Additional 
requirement - "master" link must be available for constructor of slave 
object.

Best what I can get is:

import functools
from weakref import WeakKeyDictionary
from threading import RLock

class meth_wrap(object):
     def __init__(self, func):
         object.__init__(self)
         self.func = func
         functools.update_wrapper(self, func, updated=())

class lazy_attr(meth_wrap):
     def __get__(self, obj, type=None):
         if obj is None:
             return self
         val = self.func(obj)
         setattr(obj, self.__name__, val)
         return val

class slave_mixin(object):
     @lazy_attr
     def master(self):
         m = slave_gen._unbound_master
         assert m is not None, '"Slave" object can\'t find master link. 
Is it was correctly created? obj:%s' % repr(self)
         return m

class slave_gen(meth_wrap):
     _storage = WeakKeyDictionary()
     # ???????????? ?????????
     _unbound_master = None
     _lock = RLock()

     def __get__(self, mobj, type=None):
         if mobj is None:
             return self.func
         d = {
             'm': mobj,
             'w': self}
         obj = self.delay_init()
         self._storage[obj] = d
         functools.update_wrapper(obj, self.func, updated=())
         return obj

     class delay_init(object):
         def __call__(self, *args, **kw_args):
             d = slave_gen._storage[self]
             slave_gen._lock.acquire()
             try:
                 slave_gen._unbound_master = d['m']
                 obj = d['w'].func(*args, **kw_args)
                 obj.master = d['m']
                 slave_gen._unbound_master = None
             finally:
                 slave_gen._lock.release()
             return obj

         def __getattr__(self, attr):
             d = slave_gen._storage[self]
             return getattr(d['m'], attr)
         def __setattr__(self, attr, val):
             d = slave_gen._storage[self]
             return setattr(d['m'], attr, val)

class Master(object):
     @slave_gen
     class Slave(slave_mixin):
         def __init__(self):
             slave_mixin.__init__(self)
             print 'Slave.__init__: self.master: ', self.master

if __name__ == '__main__':
     m = Master()
     s = m.Slave()
     print 's.master: ', s.master

It works, by looking little weird... and I can't find way to escape from 
using lock at object creation phase. It can be done by adding mandatory 
attribute to slave class constructor, but this is even worse(for me) 
than using lock.

Please show me more clear way to make this slave to master link.

PS Sorry for my English.

-- 
????? ??????? aka vugluskr



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 21:15:05 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:15:05 +1100
Subject: Slave to master auto linking.
In-Reply-To: <4EC067C4.7040009@vugluskr.org.ua>
References: <4EC067C4.7040009@vugluskr.org.ua>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrJcjAAGA6U0QeyWgGePEO0+ARQG_1iQe-tqhYAC_4pqQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/14 ????? ??????? <vugluskr at vugluskr.org.ua>:
> m = master()
> s = m.slave()
> s.master is m
>

Can you simply have m.slave() pass a parameter to the slave's constructor?

class Master(object):
   class Slave(object):
       def __init__(self,master):
           self.master=master
           print 'Slave.__init__: self.master: ', self.master
   def slave(self):
       return self.Slave(self)

Alternatively, you don't have to nest the classes at all:

class Slave(object):
   def __init__(self,master):
      self.master=master
      print 'Slave.__init__: self.master: ', self.master

class Master(object):
   def slave(self):
       return Slave(self)

By passing 'self' to the Slave() constructor, I give the slave a
chance to keep a reference to its own master.

Chris Angelico


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 21:50:33 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:50:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2677.1321165756.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2b46d46c-f66d-4a13-8c0b-af9b6c638863@h30g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 13, 4:28?pm, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b
>
> No, it does not. The documentation states equivalence for two
> particular values

It states equivalence for two values _based on the name_.

"If the string is the name of one of the object?s attributes, the
result is the value of that attribute. For example, getattr(x,
'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar."

The string 'a!b' is the name of the attribute, ergo getattr(x, 'a!b')
_is_ x.a!b. If x.a!b isn't valid CPython, then etc.

> CPython breaks that equivalence

So you're outright ignoring the comments that this behaviour is to
make CPython more performant?


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 23:48:45 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:48:45 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <2b46d46c-f66d-4a13-8c0b-af9b6c638863@h30g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2677.1321165756.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2b46d46c-f66d-4a13-8c0b-af9b6c638863@h30g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+9FUGY8jushRJq90B3w4wFAbNz0xpSqsMqZ-BLTb-Drw@mail.gmail.com>

> It states equivalence for two values _based on the name_.

I don't know what you mean. "Based on the name" doesn't mean anything
in particular to me in this context.

> So you're outright ignoring the comments that this behaviour is to
> make CPython more performant?

I don't see how I'm ignoring the comment. Yes, breaking the spec
improves performance. Is that a reason to not fix the spec, or
something?

Devin

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 9:50 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 4:28?pm, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b
>>
>> No, it does not. The documentation states equivalence for two
>> particular values
>
> It states equivalence for two values _based on the name_.
>
> "If the string is the name of one of the object?s attributes, the
> result is the value of that attribute. For example, getattr(x,
> 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar."
>
> The string 'a!b' is the name of the attribute, ergo getattr(x, 'a!b')
> _is_ x.a!b. If x.a!b isn't valid CPython, then etc.
>
>> CPython breaks that equivalence
>
> So you're outright ignoring the comments that this behaviour is to
> make CPython more performant?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 00:19:22 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:19:22 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me>

I just pushed aside the python25 folder by renaming it, and installed py 
2.5.2. However, when I try to open the simplest of py programs with 
IDLE, I get an error from Win7.

c:\Users\blah\...\junk.py is not a valid Win 32 app.

Here's one:
def abc(one):
     print "abc: ", one, " is one"

def duh(two):
     print "duh: ",abc(2)

abc(1)
duh(2)
duh("so what")
abc(36.333)



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 00:42:59 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:42:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fa9437c0-52db-49a4-a00d-f0a633468748@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 11:31 pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>         print k1
>         print k2
>
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

It might be possible to do something using a reverse dictionary and
getting rid of the nested dictionary.

This is a quick and simple 'two-way' dictionary class that works by
maintaining two dictionaries: the original key/value, and the reversed
value/key. It returns a list of keys, allowing for a value to be
assigned against more than

    from collections import defaultdict

    class TwoWayDict(dict):
        def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
            self._reversed = defaultdict(list)
            for key, val in kwargs.iteritems():
                self[key] = val

        def __setitem__(self, key, value):
            super(TwoWayDict, self).__setitem__(key, value)
            self._reversed[value].append(key)

        def getkeys(self, match):
            return self._reversed[match]

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b='foo',c=int,d='foo')
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a']
    >>> original.getkeys('foo')
    ['b', 'd']

As for the nested dictionary, you could replace it with a _single_
dictionary that uses a composite key:

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b=100)
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a', 'b']
    >>> original = TwoWayDict()
    >>> original['record1','user1'] = 'martin'
    >>> original['record1','user2'] = 'robert'
    >>> original['record2','user1'] = 'robert'
    >>> original.getkeys('robert')
    [('record1', 'user2'), ('record2', 'user1')]

> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

The TwoWayDict class removes the need to loop across the dict looking
for keys that match a value by replacing it with another dict lookup.
Reducing the nested dict to a single dict with composite keys removes
the need to traverse the outer dict to compare against its children.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 00:44:25 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:44:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f921ee23-9731-4909-946f-1da173917e09@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 11:31 pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>         print k1
>         print k2
>
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

It might be possible to do something using a reverse dictionary and
getting rid of the nested dictionary.

This is a quick and simple 'two-way' dictionary class that works by
maintaining two dictionaries: the original key/value, and the reversed
value/key. It returns a list of keys, allowing for a value to be
assigned against more than

    from collections import defaultdict

    class TwoWayDict(dict):
        def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
            self._reversed = defaultdict(list)
            for key, val in kwargs.iteritems():
                self[key] = val

        def __setitem__(self, key, value):
            super(TwoWayDict, self).__setitem__(key, value)
            self._reversed[value].append(key)

        def getkeys(self, match):
            return self._reversed[match]

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b='foo',c=int,d='foo')
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a']
    >>> original.getkeys('foo')
    ['b', 'd']

As for the nested dictionary, you could replace it with a _single_
dictionary that uses a composite key:

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b=100)
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a', 'b']
    >>> original = TwoWayDict()
    >>> original['record1','user1'] = 'martin'
    >>> original['record1','user2'] = 'robert'
    >>> original['record2','user1'] = 'robert'
    >>> original.getkeys('robert')
    [('record1', 'user2'), ('record2', 'user1')]

> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

The TwoWayDict class removes the need to loop across the dict looking
for keys that match a value by replacing it with another dict lookup.
Reducing the nested dict to a single dict with composite keys removes
the need to traverse the outer dict to compare against its children.


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 02:11:45 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:11:45 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying my hand at creating a Tkinter application, but not having much
> luck.  I'm trying to have my top level window be a series of buttons with
> different options on them.  Every time a button is pressed, it opens up a
> new window with options.  While that new window is open, all of the buttons
> on the original window are disabled.  However, I want all of those buttons
> to become active again once I quit my new window.  I can't seem to
> reactivate those buttons no matter what I do.
>
> This is the approach I'm trying:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> class ActionButton(Button):
>    def __init__(self, frame, text):
>       self.frame = frame
>       Button.__init__(self, master=self.frame, text=text,
> command=self.execute)
>    def execute(self):
>       window = Toplevel()
>       new_button = ActionButton(window, '2nd level button')
>       quit_button = Button(window, text='Quit!', command=window.destroy)
>       window.buttons = [new_button, quit_button]
>       for button in window.buttons: button.pack()
>       # Deactivate buttons from containing shell
>       for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=DISABLED)
>       window.mainloop()
>       for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=ACTIVE)
>
>
> top = Tk()
> top_button = ActionButton(top, 'Button on top!')
> top_button.pack()
> quit_button = Button(top, text='Quit', command=top.destroy)
> quit_button.pack()
>
> top.buttons = [top_button, quit_button]
>
> top.mainloop()
>
> I'm really kind of running around in the dark here, so any advice or
> explanation is appreciated.
>

Another approach I think will work, and that I'm going to try, is to
subclass Toplevel and simply assign the higher-level frame/window as an
instance attribute.  Then, I can reactivate all of the buttons in the
destroy() method before calling the destroy() method of Toplevel on self.
Something like this:

[untested]

class MyToplevel(Toplevel):

   def __init__(self, root, **options):
      self.root = root
      Toplevel.__init__(self, options)
      for button in self.root.buttons: button.config(state=DISABLED)

   def destroy(self):
      for button in self.root.buttons: button.config(state=ACTIVE)
      Toplevel.destroy(self)

This allows me to avoid running "mainloop()" on a non-root Toplevel
instance, but links the re-activation of the buttons with the destruction
of the child window (which was the effect I was going for).  I must not
understand what mainloop() does, fully (does it only make sense to run it
on Tkinter.Tk()?)

Thanks!
Jason
-------------- next part --------------
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 03:49:03 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:49:03 +1100
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com> wrote:
> Then, I can reactivate all of the buttons in the destroy() method before
> calling the destroy() method of Toplevel on self.

Small side point that might save you some work: Instead of disabling
and enabling all the buttons, disable the whole window. I don't know
Tkinter well enough to know if there's an easy way to create a modal
window, but the thing to do is to disable the entire window rather
than just its command buttons - that's the least astonishing[1] user
interface technique.

ChrisA

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment


From mcepl at redhat.com  Mon Nov 14 05:05:40 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:05:40 +0100
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys? [Was: Re: Get keys from
	a dicionary]
In-Reply-To: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Dne 11.11.2011 14:31, macm napsal(a):
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):

When looking at this I returned to the question which currently rolls in 
my mind:

What's difference/advantage-disadvantage betweeng doing multi-level 
dicts/arrays like this and using tuple as a key? I.e., is it more 
Pythonic to have

dict[k1,k2]

instead?

Best, Mat?j


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Mon Nov 14 05:41:52 2011
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: 14 Nov 2011 10:41:52 GMT
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
Message-ID: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>

Hi all,
i'm developing a new program.
Mission: learn a bit of database management
Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've 
seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc) 
technologies i'll use: python + gtk
db: that's the question

since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use 
sqlite at the beginning.

Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar, 
they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i 
mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
Thank you all

MedeoTL

P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to 
easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Nov 14 05:42:50 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:42:50 +0000
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys? [Was: Re: Get keys
	from a dicionary]
In-Reply-To: <j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <4EC0F0AA.4060003@timgolden.me.uk>

On 14/11/2011 10:05, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Dne 11.11.2011 14:31, macm napsal(a):
>> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>
> When looking at this I returned to the question which currently rolls in
> my mind:
>
> What's difference/advantage-disadvantage betweeng doing multi-level
> dicts/arrays like this and using tuple as a key? I.e., is it more
> Pythonic to have
>
> dict[k1,k2]
>
> instead?

For me, it would depend on what the data meant. To give an obvious 
example: if you were storing things which were based on coords, then 
clearly map[x, y] is more meaningful than map[x][y]. Conversely, if your 
dictionary structure was, say, a set of preferences for users, then 
prefs[username][prefname] is probably a more useful model.

Sometimes it's not so clear, in which case one person might opt for one 
approach while another opted for another while modelling the same data 
concepts. If, for example, you were modelling a set of book reviews 
where each review might have one or more genres (which you could display 
as a tag-cloud, say) then you could consider the model to be
a sort of book-genre tag cloud:

book_genres[title, genre]

or a list of books in each genre:

genres[genre][title]

or a list of genres for each book:

books[title][genre]

or even multiple ways if that made it easier to use in one situation
or another.

Stating-the-obvious-ly yours,

TJG


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 14 05:47:58 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:47:58 +0100
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys?
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <j9qrku$4l0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Matej Cepl wrote:

> Dne 11.11.2011 14:31, macm napsal(a):
>> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> 
> When looking at this I returned to the question which currently rolls in
> my mind:
> 
> What's difference/advantage-disadvantage betweeng doing multi-level
> dicts/arrays like this and using tuple as a key? I.e., is it more
> Pythonic to have
> 
> dict[k1,k2]
> 
> instead?

If you need lookup only I'd prefer tuples, but sometimes you may want to 
retrieve all values with a certain k1 and

d[k1]

is certainly more efficient than

[(k2, v) for (k1, k2), v in d.items() if k1 == wanted]




From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 05:55:43 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:55:43 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo9Tnqa7EhDKb5L4Bka_C-x3xzVqFOhU8m5pSDqypEAyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Tracubik <affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i'm developing a new program.
> Mission: learn a bit of database management

If your goal is to learn about databasing, then I strongly recommend a
real database engine.

> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
>
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

The complexity, in most cases, is a direct consequence of the job at
hand. I recommend PostgreSQL generally, although I've never used it
with Python and can't speak for the quality of the APIs.

The most important thing to consider is a separation of the back end
(the "guts") from the front end (the "interface"). Since your goal is
to explore databases, the guts of your code will basically just be
working with the database (no heavy computation or anything). Make
sure you can work with that, separately from your GUI. You may find it
easier to dispense with GTK and just work through the console; you can
always change later to make a pretty window.

If you've never worked with databases before, it may be best to skip
Python altogether and explore the fundamentals of relational database
engines. There's plenty of excellent tutorials on the web. Get to know
how things are done generally, and you'll be able to figure out how
things are done in Python.

All the best!

ChrisA


From andreas.perstinger at gmx.net  Mon Nov 14 07:06:00 2011
From: andreas.perstinger at gmx.net (Andreas Perstinger)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:06:00 +0100
Subject: Trying to write beautifulsoup result to a file and get error
	message
In-Reply-To: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC10428.10603@gmx.net>

On 2011-11-13 23:37, goldtech wrote:
> If I try:
> ...
> soup = BeautifulSoup(ft3)
> f = open(r'c:\NewFolder\clean4.html', "w")
> f.write(soup)
> f.close()
>
> I get error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "C:\Documents and Settings\user01\Desktop\py\tb1a.py", line
> 203, in<module>
>      f.write(soup)
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>
> I want to write beautiful soup's result to a file, I am doing
> something wrong. Help appreciated.

BeautifulSoup takes a html document in the form of a string or file-like 
oject and creates an internal data-structure after parsing it:

Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:05:24)
[GCC 4.5.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from BeautifulSoup import BeautifulSoup
 >>> html = "<html><body>Demo"
 >>> soup = BeautifulSoup(html)
 >>> type(soup)
<class 'BeautifulSoup.BeautifulSoup'>

To write the modified document into a file, you have to convert this 
structur back into a string:

 >>> new_html = str(soup)
 >>> type(new_html)
<type 'str'>
 >>> new_html
'<html>\n <body>\n  Demo\n </body>\n</html>'

HTH, Andreas


From love_ram2040 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 08:48:18 2011
From: love_ram2040 at yahoo.com (porxy)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:48:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new cars2011,2012,2013
Message-ID: <3976750c-d558-4c41-a492-4e4d70a6af64@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>


Honda Insight (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/honda-insight-2012...
Audi A2 concept (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/audi-a2-concept-20...
Infiniti FX designed by Sebastian Vettel (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/infiniti-fx-design...
Smart Forvision concept (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/smart-forvision-co...
Honda Civic (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/honda-civic-2012.html
Ford Evos concept car (2011) news and pictures
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/ford-evos-concept-...
Fiat Panda (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/fiat-panda-2012.html
Peugeot HX1 concept car (2011) first news more picsere
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/peugeot-hx1-concep...
Citroen Tubik concept car (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/citroen-tubik-conc...
Skoda MissionL concept car (2011) unveiled
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/skoda-missionl-con...
Audi A5 DTM (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/audi-a5-dtm-2012.html
Lambo Super Trofeo Stradale (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/lambo-super-trofeo...
Mercedes SLK55 AMG (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/mercedes-slk55-amg...
Lotus Exige S (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/lotus-exige-s-2011...
Ford Fiesta ST concept (2011) at the Frankfurt motor show
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/ford-fiesta-st-con...


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 14 10:24:04 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:24:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j9q8cs$3al$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> I just pushed aside the python25 folder by renaming it, and installed py 
> 2.5.2. However, when I try to open the simplest of py programs with 
> IDLE, I get an error from Win7.

> c:\Users\blah\...\junk.py is not a valid Win 32 app.

Are you double-clicking on the .py file?

What application is associated with .py files?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 10:42:27 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:42:27 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/14/2011 7:24 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<j9q8cs$3al$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> I just pushed aside the python25 folder by renaming it, and installed py
>> 2.5.2. However, when I try to open the simplest of py programs with
>> IDLE, I get an error from Win7.
>
>> c:\Users\blah\...\junk.py is not a valid Win 32 app.
>
> Are you double-clicking on the .py file?
Yes.
>
> What application is associated with .py files?

Application? Simple ones, including the one i put here that you
removed to answer my question.



From redcat at catfolks.net  Mon Nov 14 10:47:17 2011
From: redcat at catfolks.net (Redcat)
Date: 14 Nov 2011 15:47:17 GMT
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <9icrg5F5lhU1@mid.individual.net>

> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
> 
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

I know it's a lot of work to learn initially, but I would recommend 
taking the time to install and become familiar with a database engine 
such as MySQL or PostgresQL. While SQLite is easy to install and easy to 
use, it also cuts a lot of corners and allows you to do things that would 
die in a real database. For example, in SQLite column types are merely 
suggestions; there is nothing in SQLite to keep you from storing a string 
in an integer field or vice versa.

For example:

dan at dan:~/work$ sqlite3
SQLite version 3.7.3
Enter ".help" for instructions
Enter SQL statements terminated with a ";"
sqlite> create table test (
   ...> id int,
   ...> name varchar(64),
   ...> comment varchar(256)
   ...> );
sqlite> .schema test
CREATE TABLE test (
id int,
name varchar(64),
comment varchar(256)
);
sqlite> insert into test values (1, 'Dan', 'Normal insert with valid 
types');
sqlite> insert into test values ('Bogosity', 2, 'Record with invalid 
types');
sqlite> insert into test values ('This field should be an int but is 
really a long string instead', 12.45, 'A really screwy record');
sqlite> select * from test;
1|Dan|Normal insert with valid types
Bogosity|2|Record with invalid types
This field should be an int but is really a long string instead|12.45|A 
really screwy record
sqlite> 


This is not to say that SQLite is useless. Far from it - I use it 
frequently myself. But I've been working with SQL databases for a bunch 
of years, and I am familiar with the tradeoffs involved in working with 
SQLite. 

A decent tutorial on working with SQL in general can be found at http://
www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_intro.asp

Installing MySQL or Postgres can be fairly simple, if you use the tools 
provided with your Linux distro (assuming you're running on Linux). "sudo 
apt-get install mysql mysql-server" or "yum install mysql mysql-server" 
should get you what you need to start using MySQL, "sudo apt-get install 
postgresql" or "yum install postgresql" should get you started with 
PostgresQL.


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 10:57:28 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:57:28 -0800
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

I am trying to convince Python to open more than 32k files .. this is on FreeBSD.

Now I know I have to set appropriate limits .. I did:

$ sysctl kern.maxfiles
kern.maxfiles: 204800
$ sysctl kern.maxfilesperproc
kern.maxfilesperproc: 200000
$ sysctl kern.maxvnodes
kern.maxvnodes: 200000
$ ulimit
unlimited

Here is what happens with a Python freshly built from sources .. it'll tell me I can open 200k files .. but will bail out at 32k:

$ ./local/bin/python -V
Python 2.7.2
$ ./local/bin/python
Python 2.7.2 (default, Nov 14 2011, 16:41:56)
[GCC 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]] on freebsd8
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import resource
>>> resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
(200000L, 200000L)
>>> resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_OFILE)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'RLIMIT_OFILE'
>>> import resource
>>>
>>> max = resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
>>> cnt = 0
>>> print "maximum FDs", max
maximum FDs (200000L, 200000L)
fds = []

while cnt < max:
   f = open("/tmp/test1/test_%d" % cnt, "w")
   f.write("test")
   fds.append(f)
   cnt += 1
   if cnt % 1000 == 0:
      print "opened %d files" % cnt

print "ok, created %d files" % cnt
>>>
>>> fds = []
>>>
>>> while cnt < max:
...    f = open("/tmp/test1/test_%d" % cnt, "w")
...    f.write("test")
...    fds.append(f)
...    cnt += 1
...    if cnt % 1000 == 0:
...       print "opened %d files" % cnt
...
opened 1000 files
opened 2000 files
opened 3000 files
opened 4000 files
opened 5000 files
opened 6000 files
opened 7000 files
opened 8000 files
opened 9000 files
opened 10000 files
opened 11000 files
opened 12000 files
opened 13000 files
opened 14000 files
opened 15000 files
opened 16000 files
opened 17000 files
opened 18000 files
opened 19000 files
opened 20000 files
opened 21000 files
opened 22000 files
opened 23000 files
opened 24000 files
opened 25000 files
opened 26000 files
opened 27000 files
opened 28000 files
opened 29000 files
opened 30000 files
opened 31000 files
opened 32000 files
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
IOError: [Errno 24] Too many open files: '/tmp/test1/test_32765'
>>> print "ok, created %d files" % cnt
ok, created 32765 files
>>>


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 14 11:15:45 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:15:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j9rct4$frh$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> > What application is associated with .py files?

> Application? Simple ones, including the one i put here that you
> removed to answer my question.

Eh?  I can't see anywhere that you mentioned your Windows settings as
to what application is associated with .py files.

(You mentioned running IDLE, but I don't see that it was given as the
default application for opening .py files.)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 11:25:13 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:25:13 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.11.2011 16:57, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> I am trying to convince Python to open more than 32k files .. this is on FreeBSD.
> 
> Now I know I have to set appropriate limits .. I did:
> 
> $ sysctl kern.maxfiles
> kern.maxfiles: 204800
> $ sysctl kern.maxfilesperproc
> kern.maxfilesperproc: 200000
> $ sysctl kern.maxvnodes
> kern.maxvnodes: 200000
> $ ulimit
> unlimited
> 
> Here is what happens with a Python freshly built from sources .. it'll tell me I can open 200k files .. but will bail out at 32k:

I'm not familiar with BSD but Linux has similar Kernel options. The
kernel options might be *global* flags to set the total upper limit of
open file descriptors for the entire system, not for a single process.
Also on Linux "ulimit" doesn't display the fd limit. You have to use
"ulimit -n".

Why do you need more than 32k file descriptors anyway? It's an insanely
high amount of FDs. Most programs need less than 100 and the default
value of 1024 on my Linux servers is usually high enough. I've never
increased the fd limit over 8192 and our biggest installation servers
more than 80 TB data in about 20 to 25 million files.

Christian



From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 11:36:37 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:36:37 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> I'm not familiar with BSD but Linux has similar Kernel options. The kernel
> options might be *global* flags to set the total upper limit of open file
> descriptors for the entire system, not for a single process.
> Also on Linux "ulimit" doesn't display the fd limit. You have to use "ulimit -n".

This is a dedicated machine doing nothing else .. I'm monitoring global FD usage

sysctl kern.openfiles

and it's way beyond the configured limit

$ ulimit -n
200000


> 
> Why do you need more than 32k file descriptors anyway? It's an insanely high

It's not for files:

This is a network service .. I tested it with up to 50k TCP connections .. however
at this point, when the service tries to open a file, it'll bail out.

Sockets+Files both contribute to open FDs.

I need 50k sockets + 100 files.

Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will happily
accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 14 11:37:01 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7ce7af27-0f4d-4b17-ab44-36a192028f41@e15g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 14, 10:41?am, Tracubik <affdfsdfds... at b.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i'm developing a new program.
> Mission: learn a bit of database management
> Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> db: that's the question
>
> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
>
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>
> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> Thank you all
>
> MedeoTL
>
> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)

I would recommend working through the book "SQL for Dummies". I found
it very clear, and slowly leads you into how to think about design,
not just how to manipulate databases.

Instead of using Python to start with consider using OOo Base or MS
Access (retching noise), so you can use RAD to play with structure and
manipulation of your data and create data-entry forms -- this'll allow
you to enter data, and play with queries and the structure -- as you
won't get it right the first time! You will be able to get either of
these programs to give you the SQL that constructs tables, or makes
queries etc...

That'd be enough to keep you going for a couple of weeks I guess.

Also, some things make more sense in a NoSQL database, so have a look
at something like MongoDB or CouchDB and how their design works
differently.

That's probably another couple of weeks.

Also worth checking out would be http://dabodev.com

hth

Jon.




From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 11:51:23 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:51:23 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>

Am 14.11.2011 17:36, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> This is a dedicated machine doing nothing else .. I'm monitoring global FD usage
> 
> sysctl kern.openfiles
> 
> and it's way beyond the configured limit
> 
> $ ulimit -n
> 200000

Apparently you did everything right here. Well, it was worth the try. ;)


> It's not for files:
> 
> This is a network service .. I tested it with up to 50k TCP connections .. however
> at this point, when the service tries to open a file, it'll bail out.
> 
> Sockets+Files both contribute to open FDs.
> 
> I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
> 
> Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will happily
> accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.

A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your
system is able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you hit an
artificial limit because some C code or API has a overflow. This seems
to be a known bug in FreeBSD
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-July/040689.html


Christian


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 12:03:46 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:03:46 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647EB@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> > I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
> >
> > Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will
> > happily accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.
> 
> A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your system is
> able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you hit an artificial limit
> because some C code or API has a overflow. This seems to be a known bug in
> FreeBSD http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-
> July/040689.html

This is unbelievable.

I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3 ... both on i386
_and_ amd64.

Now I'm f***d;(

A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc fopen(),
but the Posix open()?

Thanks anyway for this hint!



From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 12:13:12 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:13:12 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647EB@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647EB@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <4EC14C28.2020106@cheimes.de>

Am 14.11.2011 18:03, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> This is unbelievable.
> 
> I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3 ... both on i386
> _and_ amd64.
> 
> Now I'm f***d;(
> 
> A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc fopen(),
> but the Posix open()?
> 
> Thanks anyway for this hint!

A fix would break the ABI compatibility. I guess that you won't see a
fix for the issue until FreeBSD 9.0 is released.

And no, you can't re-compile Python to use the open() API instead of
fopen(). The built-in file type is developed around the file pointer
API, not the file descriptor API. Luckily Python 2.7 has a backport of
Python 3.x new IO library. The new IO API doesn't use file pointers at
all and implements its own layer around file descriptors. Good luck!

Christian


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 12:31:47 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:31:47 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me> <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9rja5$qcp$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/14/2011 8:15 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<j9rct4$frh$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>>> What application is associated with .py files?
>
>> Application? Simple ones, including the one i put here that you
>> removed to answer my question.
>
> Eh?  I can't see anywhere that you mentioned your Windows settings as
> to what application is associated with .py files.
>
> (You mentioned running IDLE, but I don't see that it was given as the
> default application for opening .py files.)
>
I would think the install would make the association of py to Python, 
either IDLE or the interpreter. If I right-click on a py file, it asks 
me for "Open with". If I select idle.pyw, it gives me the message I 
posted earlier.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 14 12:33:48 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 14, 5:03?pm, Tobias Oberstein <tobias.oberst... at tavendo.de>
wrote:
> > > I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
>
> > > Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will
> > > happily accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.
>
> > A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your system is
> > able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you hit an artificial limit
> > because some C code or API has a overflow. This seems to be a known bug in
> > FreeBSDhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-
> > July/040689.html
>
> This is unbelievable.
>
> I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3 ... both on i386
> _and_ amd64.
>
> Now I'm f***d;(
>
> A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc fopen(),
> but the Posix open()?
>
> Thanks anyway for this hint!

Have you tried/or is it possible to get your 100 or whatever files
first, before your sockets?

hth

Jon


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 12:46:00 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:46:00 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> > > > I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
> >
> > > > Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service)
> > > > will happily accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll
> bail out.
> >
> > > A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your
> > > system is able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you
> > > hit an artificial limit because some C code or API has a overflow.
> > > This seems to be a known bug in
> > > FreeBSDhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-
> > > July/040689.html
> >
> > This is unbelievable.
> >
> > I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3
> > ... both on i386 _and_ amd64.
> >
> > Now I'm f***d;(
> >
> > A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc
> > fopen(), but the Posix open()?
> >
> > Thanks anyway for this hint!
> 
> Have you tried/or is it possible to get your 100 or whatever files first, before
> your sockets?

If I only needed to open a fixed set of files, that might be a workaround.

However, this is not the case.

I.e. Twisted will do log switching and create/open a new file when the 50k sockets
are already there.

I just confirmed that the bug is even there for FreeBSD 9 RC1 !

This is most unfortunate. Seriously.

I am running out of options, since I am willing to make my stuff Python 3 compatible,
but Twisted is not yet there.

Using the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will not make open() automatically use the new IO, will it?

 


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 12:48:27 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:48:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <28344033.1206.1321292907659.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>

> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use 
> sqlite at the beginning.
> 
> Is that ok? 
I think sqlite3 makes sense since it's already there and has SQL interface.

> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i 
> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
The docs (http://docs.python.org/library/sqlite3.html) have some basic instructions.

> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to 
> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
This can be your first exercise :) But it should be easy to import with the csv module.



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 14 13:00:44 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:00:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me> <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rja5$qcp$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9rl0c$qko$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j9rja5$qcp$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> I would think the install would make the association of py to Python, 
> either IDLE or the interpreter.

I would hope so too, however you did mention that you moved the python
executable to a different directory and installed a newer version, so
verifying that the .py file association points to the correct application
might be worthwhile.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 13:03:31 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:03:31 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.11.2011 18:46, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> I just confirmed that the bug is even there for FreeBSD 9 RC1 !
> 
> This is most unfortunate. Seriously.

W00t, that sucks! You could migrate to another BSD (NetBSD) or Linux ... :)

> I am running out of options, since I am willing to make my stuff Python 3 compatible,
> but Twisted is not yet there.
> 
> Using the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will not make open() automatically use the new IO, will it?

No, the open() function of Python 2.7 will still use the file class
which in return uses fopen(). You could try to monkey patch the built-in
open() function. It's mostly API compatible with the current open()
function:

  >>> import io, __builtin__
  >>> __builtin__.open = io.open

It works as long as no codes checks for isinstance(obj, file). If your
app only has to worry about log files, you might want to overwrite the
_open() method of logging.FileHandler and its subclasses.

Christian



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 13:08:17 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:08:17 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9rl0c$qko$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me> <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rja5$qcp$1@dont-email.me> <j9rl0c$qko$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9rlej$a6p$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/14/2011 10:00 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<j9rja5$qcp$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> I would think the install would make the association of py to Python,
>> either IDLE or the interpreter.
>
> I would hope so too, however you did mention that you moved the python
> executable to a different directory and installed a newer version, so
> verifying that the .py file association points to the correct application
> might be worthwhile.
>
Note though I had uninstalled Python. The folder remained, so I renamed 
it, then installed. I see no way that under that arrangement that py 
would be associated with the renamed contents. The renamed folder has no 
exe file for the interpreter. There is, of course, a new Python25 that 
shows python.exe and pythonw.exe. python.exe will bring up a command 
window.


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 13:28:21 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:28:21 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> > I just confirmed that the bug is even there for FreeBSD 9 RC1 !
> >
> > This is most unfortunate. Seriously.
> 
> W00t, that sucks! You could migrate to another BSD (NetBSD) or Linux ... :)

No, thanks;)

> > I am running out of options, since I am willing to make my stuff
> > Python 3 compatible, but Twisted is not yet there.
> >
> > Using the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will not make open()
> automatically use the new IO, will it?
> 
> No, the open() function of Python 2.7 will still use the file class which in
> return uses fopen(). You could try to monkey patch the built-in
> open() function. It's mostly API compatible with the current open()
> function:
> 
>   >>> import io, __builtin__
>   >>> __builtin__.open = io.open
> 
> It works as long as no codes checks for isinstance(obj, file). If your app only
> has to worry about log files, you might want to overwrite the
> _open() method of logging.FileHandler and its subclasses.
> 

Thanks! This is probably the most practical option I can go.

I've just tested: the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will indeed
open >32k files on FreeBSD. It also creates the files much faster.
The old, non-monkey-patched version was getting slower and
slower as more files were opened/created ..

There seem to be slight differences though:

Non-monkey patched: I can write to the file a non-Unicode string,
even when the file was opened non-Binary.

With monkey patch: either open the file Binary-mode, or
write Unicode strings ..

I need to see if / what breaks in Twisted.

I can handle my own code .. no problem.

Thanks alot!!



import io, __builtin__
__builtin__.open = io.open

import resource

max = resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
cnt = 0
print "maximum FDs", max

max = 33000

fds = []

while cnt < max:
   f = open("/tmp/test1/test_%d" % cnt, "wb")
   f.write("test")
   fds.append(f)
   cnt += 1
   if cnt % 1000 == 0:
      print "opened %d files" % cnt

print "ok, created %d files" % cnt




From steve at sprangle.com  Mon Nov 14 14:30:15 2011
From: steve at sprangle.com (Steve Edlefsen)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:30:15 -0700
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com> <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>

Sorry about that.  Ubuntu 11.10.

I used

Plone-4.1.2-UnifiedInstaller.tar

which installed o.k.  I'm serving a webpage on my LAN.

I did a search on files named "python" on my machine.
There are 23 not including the ones in the Plone
buildout-cache in my account.  Seems like a lot of
applications install their own copy of python.

There are also

./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so
./usr/lib/libz.so

which, I believe, are the zlib libraries.

I've read that you can reinstall python with configure
using the "--with-zlib" option, but configure isn't in

/usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config

I think the python interpreter for the command line is
the one in /usr/bin/python.  Would this be the one I
reconfigure for zlib?  Should I simply install python from

Python-3.2.2.tgz?

On 11/13/2011 02:55 PM, Tim Wintle wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 11:17 -0700, Steve Edlefsen wrote:
>> which appears to install zlib when python is reinstalled.  Except I
>> can't run make without errors and there is no configuration file.
>>
>> How do I reinstall python to include zlib?
> Which OS are you on? Linux? BSD?
>
> How did you install Plone?
>
> First I'd check if there's a module shadowing the builtin zlib module -
> i.e. if you've got a local file called "zlib.py" which is getting
> imported by mistake.
>
>
> Fairly much all *nix systems will have a python installation out of the
> box - it looks like you need python2.6
>
> I've never had a missing zlib module - but it's possible that it might
> be missing if you don't have the zlib/deflate headers installed - if
> they're not available then I'd try installing them and then reinstalling
> the package you started with.
>
> Tim Wintle
>


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 14:34:31 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:34:31 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <4EC16D47.3000607@cheimes.de>

Am 14.11.2011 19:28, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> Thanks! This is probably the most practical option I can go.
> 
> I've just tested: the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will indeed
> open >32k files on FreeBSD. It also creates the files much faster.
> The old, non-monkey-patched version was getting slower and
> slower as more files were opened/created ..

I wonder what's causing the O(n^2) behavior. Is it the old file type or
BSD's fopen() fault?


> There seem to be slight differences though:
> 
> Non-monkey patched: I can write to the file a non-Unicode string,
> even when the file was opened non-Binary.
> 
> With monkey patch: either open the file Binary-mode, or
> write Unicode strings ..

Python 3.x doesn't collate data and text but distinguishes between bytes
(str type in Python 2.x) and unicode. You can't write unicode to a
binary file and str to a text file. See it as an opportunity! You are
taking the first step towards Python 3 compatibility. :)

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 14:50:39 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:50:39 +0100
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com> <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>
	<4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
Message-ID: <j9rref$l08$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.11.2011 20:30, schrieb Steve Edlefsen:
> Sorry about that.  Ubuntu 11.10.
> 
> I used
> 
> Plone-4.1.2-UnifiedInstaller.tar
> 
> which installed o.k.  I'm serving a webpage on my LAN.
> 
> I did a search on files named "python" on my machine.
> There are 23 not including the ones in the Plone
> buildout-cache in my account.  Seems like a lot of
> applications install their own copy of python.
> 
> There are also
> 
> ../usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so
> ../usr/lib/libz.so
> 
> which, I believe, are the zlib libraries.
> 
> I've read that you can reinstall python with configure
> using the "--with-zlib" option, but configure isn't in
> 
> /usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config
> 
> I think the python interpreter for the command line is
> the one in /usr/bin/python.  Would this be the one I
> reconfigure for zlib? 

You might have run into this [1] issue with Ubuntu 11.04+ and Python
before 2.7.2.

Christian

[1]
http://lipyrary.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-compile-python-on-ubuntu-1104.html



From chris.martel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 15:57:37 2011
From: chris.martel at gmail.com (Chris Martel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:57:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Developer needed for Catalina Marketing - St. Petersburg
Message-ID: <7430fa93-e8a0-41e5-8fd5-3a4b5fe40cc4@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

We, at Catalina Marketing, are in need of a Python Developer for 3 - 6
months.  You'd be writing highly sophisticated scripting in OO classes
(cron) for our coupon campaigns.  Also using SQLite, Oracle, and
Netezza.  Prefer someone who has at least 3-5 years of Python and
database experience.  The other skills are secondary.  You would be a
direct Catalina temporary employee, or we can do a C2C arrangement.

Also if you know of someone who might be interested, I would muchly
appreciate the referral.

Please contact Chris Martel if interested:
chris.martel at catalinamarketing.com, 727-579-5434.


Catalina Marketing Corp. provides behavior-based marketing solutions
for brand manufacturers, retailers, and healthcare providers. It
offers campaign management services; Catalina Category Marketing, a
behavior-based merchandising event; Catalina Interactive, which allows
the user to communicate with consumers online; Catalina Product Alert,
which tracks down actual recalled product buyers; Checkout Coupon,
which targets consumers at the transaction level; Checkout Direct,
which allows brands and retailers to target households based on past
purchase behavior; Checkout Prizes, which builds product volume and
generates in-store/brand excitement by pre-announcing sweepstakes
events; and Checkout Rx, a household and transactional database. The
company also provides competitive benchmarks; Connection Builder, a
Web-based business intelligence application designed to support
analytical needs; data mining services; Loyalty Quotient, a strategic
application; new product launch programs; PatientLink, which delivers
healthcare messages; PatientLinkMC, which delivers PatientLink
messages in the patient's language of choice; Pay for Performance,
which allows brand manufacturers to influence consumers before they
reach the point of sale; PharmAware, which delivers educational
messages about pharmaceutical products for pharmacists and their
staff; Rebate Max, a program that simplifies customer participation in
various manufacturer-funded rebate offers; and RxConx, an integrated
wellness marketing solution. In addition, it offers retail consulting
services. The company serves various brands, retailers, and healthcare
markets. Catalina Marketing Corp. was founded in 1983 and is based in
St. Petersburg, Florida with locations in the United States, the
United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Japan, Italy, Germany, France, and
Belgium.


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Mon Nov 14 16:01:06 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:01:06 +0000
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>
	<1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop> <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
Message-ID: <1321304466.32356.14.camel@tim-laptop>

On Mon, 2011-11-14 at 12:30 -0700, Steve Edlefsen wrote:
> I did a search on files named "python" on my machine.
> There are 23 not including the ones in the Plone
> buildout-cache in my account.  Seems like a lot of
> applications install their own copy of python.
> 
> There are also
> 
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so
> ./usr/lib/libz.so
> 
> which, I believe, are the zlib libraries.

but do you have the headers?

On my ubuntu it's

/usr/include/zlib.h

As Christian pointed out, Ubuntu 11.04 introduced some changes which may
have broken the installation - there is a patch on the python bug
tracker which will provide a work-around, but it is not going to be
applied to 2.6 or lower as they are not actively maintained branches any
more.

You'll need to run through the steps that the plone installer makes and
patch the extracted python directory before it makes it's local python.

> I've read that you can reinstall python with configure
> using the "--with-zlib" option, but configure isn't in
> 
> /usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config
> 
> I think the python interpreter for the command line is
> the one in /usr/bin/python.  Would this be the one I
> reconfigure for zlib?  Should I simply install python from
> 
> Python-3.2.2.tgz?

no - you need to use python2.6 - python3 is effectively a different
language.

python is a core part of *nix these days, so playing around recompiling
the system python can cause a lot of pain.


Tim




From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 14 16:53:29 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:53:29 -0800
Subject: else in try/except
Message-ID: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>

The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems 
pointless to me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the 
code in the 'else' suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.

Can anybody shed some light on this for me?

~Ethan~


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Nov 14 17:59:35 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:59:35 +0000
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4EC19D57.8000907@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 14/11/2011 21:53, Ethan Furman wrote:
> The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems
> pointless to me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the
> code in the 'else' suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>
The difference is that if an exception occurs in the else block it
won't be caught by the exception handlers of the try statement.


From arnodel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 18:03:55 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:03:55 +0000
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Y=9S3O1iaq77GZxQL9L15r4xAYHMpnK2tEsoUjJC8yfQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 November 2011 21:53, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems pointless to
> me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the code in the 'else'
> suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?

Exceptions in the else clause will not be caught. Look at the
difference between the two try clauses below:

>>> def f(): raise TypeError
...
>>> try:
...    print("try")
...    f()
... except TypeError:
...    print("except")
...
try
except
>>> try:
...    print("try")
... except TypeError:
...    print("except")
... else:
...    f()
...
try
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 6, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in f
TypeError
>>>

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Nov 14 18:12:13 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC19D57.8000907@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<4EC19D57.8000907@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsh=rRFs_ruoPU14yzXQuv-EiELKv_-0-m4gbnJmVDUaw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:59 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 14/11/2011 21:53, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>> The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems
>> pointless to me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the
>> code in the 'else' suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.
>>
>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>>
> The difference is that if an exception occurs in the else block it
> won't be caught by the exception handlers of the try statement.

Consider the examples:

try:
 a
 raise RuntimeError()
except RuntimeError:
 pass

vs

try:
 a
except RuntimeError:
 pass
else:
 raise RuntimeError()

The first example will not raise an exception, while the second will
result in a RuntimeError.

Effectively, the first block will either:
 1) If the "a" block raises a RuntimeError, continue,
 2) If the "a" block raised any other error, propergate it,
 3) If the "a" block does not raise an exception, continue.
while the second block will either:
 1) If the "a" block raises a RuntimeError, continue,
 2) If the "a" block raised any other error, propergate it,
 3) If the "a" block does not raise an exception, raise a RuntimeError.

Note the difference in the 3rd case.

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 18:59:39 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any
new language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read
as readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language,
explicidly typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to
make that code executable.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 14 19:15:16 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:15:16 -0800
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4EC1AF14.3010401@stoneleaf.us>

Thanks, all!

~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 19:28:10 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:10 +1100
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
In-Reply-To: <da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrF1D5PMxPCzssOEnw2GNuEJHE-gHem=gTCbgtVAqgF6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:59 AM, DevPlayer <devplayer at gmail.com> wrote:
> What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
> instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
> structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any
> new language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read
> as readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language,
> explicidly typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to
> make that code executable.

What I would say is: How could they NOT be aware of Python's visual
structures. There are tradeoffs, and just because something works for
one language doesn't mean it's right for every other. I doubt the Dart
developers were unaware of Python's structural style, so the choice to
not use such was most likely conscious. (It may have been as simple as
"let's keep the syntax mostly JS-like, to make it easier for JS
developers to grok" though, rather than a major language-design
choice.)

ChrisA


From rowen at uw.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:00:38 2011
From: rowen at uw.edu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:00:38 -0800
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
References: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-0C4928.17003814112011@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A at mail.gmail.com>,
 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Russell E. Owen <rowen at uw.edu> wrote:
> > I am trying to write a decorator that times an instance method and
> > writes the results to a class member variable. For example:
> >
> > def timeMethod(func):
> > ? ?def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> > ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> > ? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
> > ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> > ? ? ? ?self.timings[func.__name__] = duration
> > ? ? ? ?return res
> > ? ?return wrapper
> >
> > This works, but I'm not very happy with the way self.timings is obtained.
> 
> What do you feel is wrong with it? 

Oops, I stripped so much out of my example that I stripped the ugly bit. 
This is closer to the original and demonstrated the issue:

def timeMethod(func):
    name = func.__name__ + "Duration"
    def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
   ? ? t1 = time.time()
? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
? ? ? ?self.timings[name] = duration
? ? ? ?return res
? ?return wrapper

I don't like the way name is passed into wrapper. It works, but it looks 
like magic. A class offers an obvious place to save the information. Or 
I could just generate the name each time.

I realize I'm showing the limits of my understanding of python binding 
of variable names, but I also think that if I find it confusing then 
others will, as well.

> sum(os.times()[:2]) instead, which (assuming your script is
> single-threaded) will more accurately count the actual CPU time spent
> in the function rather than real time, which could be quite different
> if the CPU is busy.

Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to use time.clock(), which I 
understand gives basically the same information (at a resolution that is 
sufficient for my needs).

> Also, why do you need this?  If you're just trying to evaluate the
> speed of your code, you should consider using a proper profiler or the
> timeit module. The former will tell you how much time is spent in
> each function, while the latter runs the code a large number of times
> in a loop, which gives you better precision for quick methods.

It is for timing stages of a data processing pipeline. Only long-running 
tasks will be timed. Repeatedly running to get better times is neither 
practical nor necessary to get a good feeling of where the time is being 
spent.

> > I first tried to write this as a class (for readability), and this did
> > NOT work:
> >
> > class timeMethod(object):
> > ? ?def __init__(self, func):
> > ? ? ? ?self.func = func
> > ? ?def __call__(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> > ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> > ? ? ? ?res = self.func(*args, **keyArgs)
> > ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> > ? ? ? ?args[0].timings.set(self.func.__name__, duration)
> > ? ? ? ?return res
> >
> > In the first case the wrapper is called as an unbound function, so it
> > works. But in the second case the wrapper is called as a bound method --
> > thus args[0] is not func's class instance, and I can't get to the
> > timings attribute.
> 
> I prefer the function version myself, but to make this work you could
> add something like this (untested) to make your wrapper class a
> descriptor that tacks on the self argument:
> 
>     def __get__(self, instance, owner):
>         from functools import partial
>         if instance is None:
>             return self
>         return partial(self, instance)

Thank you very much. I'll stick to the function, since it works, but 
it's nice to know how to work around the problem.



From dbinks at codeaurora.org  Mon Nov 14 20:09:39 2011
From: dbinks at codeaurora.org (Dominic Binks)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:09:39 -0800
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrF1D5PMxPCzssOEnw2GNuEJHE-gHem=gTCbgtVAqgF6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmrF1D5PMxPCzssOEnw2GNuEJHE-gHem=gTCbgtVAqgF6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC1BBD3.2020006@codeaurora.org>

I believe Occam had a visual structure and was compiled.  In fact it was 
even more picky than Python in this respect IIRC.

On 11/14/2011 4:28 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:59 AM, DevPlayer<devplayer at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
>> instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
>> structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any
>> new language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read
>> as readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language,
>> explicidly typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to
>> make that code executable.
>
> What I would say is: How could they NOT be aware of Python's visual
> structures. There are tradeoffs, and just because something works for
> one language doesn't mean it's right for every other. I doubt the Dart
> developers were unaware of Python's structural style, so the choice to
> not use such was most likely conscious. (It may have been as simple as
> "let's keep the syntax mostly JS-like, to make it easier for JS
> developers to grok" though, rather than a major language-design
> choice.)
>
> ChrisA


-- 
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 22:07:34 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:07:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys?
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
	<mailman.2695.1321267697.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <74d33315-beb0-4b4e-90bb-0cac8c91c5e6@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> If you need lookup only I'd prefer tuples, but sometimes you may want to
> retrieve all values with a certain k1 and
>
> d[k1]
>
> is certainly more efficient than
>
> [(k2, v) for (k1, k2), v in d.items() if k1 == wanted]

This was the hidden cost of the tuple/reverse-dictionary solution I
offered. The solution will of course depend on what the OP requires to
be more efficient: looking up keys from values, or working with
subsets of the data.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 14 22:10:34 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 03:10:34 GMT
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ec1d829$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:39 -0800, DevPlayer wrote:

> What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
> instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
> structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any new
> language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read as
> readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language, explicidly
> typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to make that
> code executable.

Because sometimes people have priorities other than readability. Or they 
actually *like* braces. (I know, crazy!) 

In fairness, the significant indentation is not all peaches and cream, it 
has a dark side too. For example, the difference between visually 
indistinguishable spaces and tabs can be meaningful (in Python 2, your 
code may be broken if you mix spaces and tabs; in Python 3, the compiler 
will give you an error).  If you work in a noisy environment that eats 
whitespace, such as crappy web forums, people using HTML email, editors 
with unfriendly word-wrapping rules, and the like, you might miss having 
braces. I occasionally see emails with code looking something like this:

    print(something) while x < 100: print(something_else)
    x -= 1 if x % 2 == 1: some_function() else: another_function()
    third_function() print(x)


So the "off-side rule", as it is called, is not uncontroversial. 
Languages developed by old-school language developers or academics, like 
Google's Go language, tend to be very conservative and hence require 
braces or even semicolons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-side_rule


So many people keep asking for braces in Python that one of the 
developers (Guido?) gave in and added it to the language. Just run 

from __future__ import braces

at the top of your file, or at the interactive interpreter, and you're 
done.

My own opinion is that the time I save with significant indentation is a 
hundred times greater than the time I lose due to mangled code without 
braces. So I consider Python's design a big win, but other people may 
make other value judgments.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 14 22:22:03 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 03:22:03 GMT
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
References: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2720.1321318854.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec1dada$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:00:38 -0800, Russell E. Owen wrote:

> Oops, I stripped so much out of my example that I stripped the ugly bit.
> This is closer to the original and demonstrated the issue:
> 
> def timeMethod(func):
>     name = func.__name__ + "Duration"
>     def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
>    ? ? t1 = time.time()
> ? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
> ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> ? ? ? ?self.timings[name] = duration
> ? ? ? ?return res
> ? ?return wrapper
> 
> I don't like the way name is passed into wrapper. It works, but it looks
> like magic. A class offers an obvious place to save the information. Or
> I could just generate the name each time.

The pattern you are seeing is called a closure, and it is a very 
important, if advanced, part of Python programming. Of course, you don't 
*have* to use closures, but it isn't scarily-advanced (like metaclass 
programming) but only moderately advanced, and there will be a lot of 
code out there using closures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_science)

Basically a closure is a function which remembers just enough of its 
current environment (the value of non-local variables) so that it can 
continue to work in the future, even if those non-locals change or 
disappear.

I take it you are aware that timing code as shown is only suitable for 
long-running code, and not small snippets? For small snippets, you should 
use the timeit module.

You might also find this recipe useful:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896/



-- 
Steven


From brownbar at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 23:53:06 2011
From: brownbar at gmail.com (Barry W Brown)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>

I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached only
if there is no exception in the try clause.


From brownbar at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 23:53:06 2011
From: brownbar at gmail.com (Barry W Brown)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>

I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached only
if there is no exception in the try clause.


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 00:18:28 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:18:28 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Then, I can reactivate all of the buttons in the destroy() method before
> > calling the destroy() method of Toplevel on self.
>
> Small side point that might save you some work: Instead of disabling
> and enabling all the buttons, disable the whole window. I don't know
> Tkinter well enough to know if there's an easy way to create a modal
> window, but the thing to do is to disable the entire window rather
> than just its command buttons - that's the least astonishing[1] user
> interface technique.
>

Of course!  Windows are widgets just like everything else is, and so can be
configured to be in the DISABLED state just like a button can.  I'm not
used to this hierarchy in which the root window presides over all, yet is
still a widget just like everything else.

But there's a lot of GUI programming that I haven't wrapped my head around
yet (which is why I'm running with this pet project -- but it's bound to be
ugly :)).

Thanks!
Jason
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 00:32:06 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:32:06 +1100
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com> wrote:
> Of course!? Windows are widgets just like everything else is, and so can be
> configured to be in the DISABLED state just like a button can.? I'm not used
> to this hierarchy in which the root window presides over all, yet is still a
> widget just like everything else.
>
> But there's a lot of GUI programming that I haven't wrapped my head around
> yet (which is why I'm running with this pet project -- but it's bound to be
> ugly :)).

Heh, I grew up on OS/2 and everything was an object. (With a few
exceptions; the minimize/maximize/close buttons are all a single
object, rather than being three.) It's not normal to disable the title
bar while leaving the window enabled, but if you want to, you can!

As a general rule, if any parent is invisible, you won't see the
child, and if any parent is disabled, you can't access the child. You
may find that there's even a one-line command that will disable the
window, open a new window, wait for the new window to close, and
automatically reenable the window - an "open modal dialog" function or
something.

ChrisA


From devplayer at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 02:39:51 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:39:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple import hook
References: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2608.1320947171.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <09619112-407e-49ba-87df-ceed03e7789e@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

An alternative approach:
http://pastebin.com/z6pNqFYE

or:

# devplayer at gmail.com
# 2011-Nov-15

# recordimports.py

# my Import Hook Hack in response to:
# http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5a5d5c724f142eb5?hl=en
# as an initial learning exercise

# This code needs to come before any imports you want recorded
# usually just once in the initial (main) module
# Of course you can excluding the if __name__ == '__main__': demo code

# barely tested:
#    only tested with modules that had no errors on import
#    did not need/use/expect/try  reload()
#    ran with Python 2.7 on Win32
# create two fake modules moda.py and modb.py and stick some imports
in them

'''
Exerpt from PEP 302 -- New Import Hooks
...
Motivation:
    - __import__ gets called even for modules that are already in
      sys.modules, which is almost never what you want, unless you're
      writing some sort of monitoring tool.

Note the last two words.'''


#
=======================================================================
# place to save Collected imports
imported = []

# save old __builtins__.__import__()
__builtins__.__dict__['__old_import__'] =
__builtins__.__dict__['__import__']

# match __builtins__.__import__() function signature
def __myimport(name, globals={}, locals={}, fromlist=[], level=-1):
    global imported

    # I don't know why this works.
    __name__ = locals['__name__']
    __file__ = locals['__file__']
    __package__ = locals['__package__']
    __doc__ = locals['__doc__']

    # call original __import__
    module = __builtins__.__old_import__(name, globals, locals,
fromlist, level)

    # save import module name into namespace
    __builtins__.__dict__[name] = module

    tag = (name, __name__, __file__, __package__, module)

    # do not append duplicates
    if tag not in imported:
        imported.append( tag )

    return module

# store the new __import__ into __builtins__
__builtins__.__dict__['__import__'] = __myimport

# erase unneed func name
del __myimport
#
=======================================================================


# demo
if __name__ == '__main__':
    # import some random packages/modules
    import sys
    import moda        # a test module that does some other imports
    import modb        # a test module that does some imports
    from pprint import pprint

    # imported has name, __name__, __file__, __package__
    # show each import
    for n, __n, __f, __p, m in imported:
        print n
        print '   ', __n
        print '   ', __f
        print '   ', __p
        print
    del n, __n, __f, __p, m

    print 'recordimports.py'
    pprint(dir(), None, 4, 1)
    print

    print 'moda.py'
    pprint(dir(moda), None, 4, 1)
    print

    print 'modb.py'
    pprint(dir(modb), None, 4, 1)

    # print imported
    print


From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 06:14:17 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:14:17 +0000
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmogthwAirzKgCfodjtKtYLESrRSPDJL44Z72dxWt_p=TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<CAPTjJmogthwAirzKgCfodjtKtYLESrRSPDJL44Z72dxWt_p=TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWEtQbnW81Fj=RPsnGGR=RrF4XMegdJ_vipPc0ymAuL9YQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:45 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> > Dart is the very new language created by Google to replace Javascript.
> > So Python was not able to do the job? Or may be they don't know about
> Python
> > at Google ;) ?
> >
>
> Also, Dart is looking to support (optional) strict typing, which
> Python doesn't do. That's a fairly major performance enhancement.
>
> Traits from Enthought has defined types. I'm no expert mind so might not
be suitable.

Cheers,

Jack


-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From suhasrm at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 07:04:51 2011
From: suhasrm at gmail.com (Roark)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
Message-ID: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
some guidance from the experts on my problem.

I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
be achieved.


Thanks in advance,
Roark.


From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 08:29:23 2011
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:29:23 +0000
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9tpfl$bok$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/15/11 12:04, Roark wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
>

If your doing windows to windows then you could wrap PsExec 
(sysinternals) or the open source but more or less abandoned RemCom 
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/rce).

Disadvantage is that both of them are a royal PITA to wrap nicely.
There are multiple problems with re-redirected STDOUT/STDERR

Advantage is that you don't need to configure anything on the target 
machine.

hth
-- 
mph




From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Tue Nov 15 08:34:30 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:34:30 +0900
Subject: PREFIX directory for pip command
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RtD7R_8FKR2cfk-=122e+iw9vJg-Pu+1C2ZK5xTNPPgsg@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to specify PREFIX directory for pip command by
environment variable?

I found that 'pip install --install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' works well,
but I don't want to specify '--install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' every time.
I prefer to specify it by environment variable such as::

    export PIP_INSTALL_DIR=$PWD/local

Is it possible? Or any idea?

--
regards,
makoto


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 08:54:14 2011
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 05:54:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dde5ee48-e790-4ad5-8233-52b843a0b863@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 1:04?pm, Roark <suha... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roark.


Hello Roark,

If the command does not change over time, an option could be to
encapsulate the command and the output behind an XML-RPC interface. I
used it several times now and for me this works perfectly. XML-RPC is
part of the Python standard library, so it should work out of the box
on windows and linux. It also supports mixed programming languages
(maybe C# on windows to get the info you want and python on linux on
the client).

Kind regards,

Marco


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov 15 09:03:49 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:03:49 +0100
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <j9tpfl$bok$1@dont-email.me>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<j9tpfl$bok$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC27145.6070203@sequans.com>

Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> On 11/15/11 12:04, Roark wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
>> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>>
>> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
>> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
>> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
>> be achieved.
>>
>
> If your doing windows to windows then you could wrap PsExec 
> (sysinternals) or the open source but more or less abandoned RemCom 
> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/rce).
>
> Disadvantage is that both of them are a royal PITA to wrap nicely.
> There are multiple problems with re-redirected STDOUT/STDERR
>
> Advantage is that you don't need to configure anything on the target 
> machine.
>
> hth
have a look at execnet

http://codespeak.net/execnet/

It allows you to execute python code on a remote machine, assuming the 
distant machine has python installed. Work fine with either nix or 
windows systems.

Regarding the file transfert, it sounds like pywin32 provides the 
netcopy service, but I'm not sure, I'm not working with windows.

JM



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 09:10:51 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:10:51 +1100
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqcciMc6LhnoO2_oHDufC-pJmkWPfLTzer5qz5uWwdCig@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.

This looks like a job for SSH.

ChrisA


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Nov 15 09:16:23 2011
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 00:16:23 +1000
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALWePYzpwj6VU97zjwtb8CttpHOvMKBOyH0tFziPKns_GPR-yQ@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like Fabric is what you're after. We use it at work and it's the
best thing since ssh. ;]

http://docs.fabfile.org/en/1.3.2/index.html

(Actually, it uses ssh internally and allows you to do remote shell-like
programming in a pythonic fashion.)

Cheers,
Xav



On 15 November 2011 22:04, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roark.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 15 09:20:50 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2728.1321366254.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-967479.09205015112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2728.1321366254.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> > machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> > command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> > be achieved.
> 
> This looks like a job for SSH.

You might also want to look at fabric (http://fabfile.org).  It's a nice 
python library for remote command execution built on top of SSH.

A more general answer is that, yes, SSH is the right thing to be looking 
at for your basic connectivity, data transport and remote command 
execution.  But trying to deal with raw SSH will drive you batty.  
Something like fabric, layered on top of SSH, will make things a lot 
easier.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov 15 09:31:56 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:31:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: else in try/except
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
Message-ID: <j9tt4s$95h$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-15, Barry W Brown <brownbar at gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached
> only if there is no exception in the try clause.

Not really.  If that's all you wanted, then you just put the code at
the end of the try block.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... I see TOILET
                                  at               SEATS ...
                              gmail.com            


From usenet at solar-empire.de  Tue Nov 15 09:33:42 2011
From: usenet at solar-empire.de (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:33:42 +0100
Subject: PREFIX directory for pip command
References: <mailman.2726.1321364074.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6r9ap8-2to.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>

Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to specify PREFIX directory for pip command by
> environment variable?
> 
> I found that 'pip install --install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' works well,
> but I don't want to specify '--install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' every time.
> I prefer to specify it by environment variable such as::
> 
>    export PIP_INSTALL_DIR=$PWD/local
> 
> Is it possible? Or any idea?

I'd try
 export PIP_INSTALL_OPTION=--prefix=$PWD/local

using a config file is also possible. See
http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/configuration.html

Ciao
Marc


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 10:06:15 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:06:15 +0000
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <j9tt4s$95h$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
	<j9tt4s$95h$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9tv58$r8f$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/15/11 2:31 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2011-11-15, Barry W Brown<brownbar at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached
>> only if there is no exception in the try clause.
>
> Not really.  If that's all you wanted, then you just put the code at
> the end of the try block.

No, he's right. You should only put code in the try: block where you want 
exceptions to be caught. Everything else should be outside of the block. You 
really do want to minimize the amount of code inside the try: block.

try:
     # minimal code that might raise exceptions that you want to catch
except ThisError:
     # handle ThisError exceptions, and probably continue execution
except ThatError:
     # handle ThatError exceptions, and probably continue execution
else:
     # Code that only runs if ThisError or ThatError were not
     # raised in the try: block. This code may raise ThisError or ThatError
     # exceptions that should not be caught by the above except: blocks.

# Other code that runs regardless if a caught-and-continued exception
# was raised or not

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Tue Nov 15 10:40:34 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 00:40:34 +0900
Subject: PREFIX directory for pip command
In-Reply-To: <6r9ap8-2to.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
References: <mailman.2726.1321364074.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6r9ap8-2to.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RuZfFGHqpEQNxZ=TcTLHve6p1wmquSSCCnvcumEwRqsYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Marc Christiansen
<usenet at solar-empire.de> wrote:
>
> I'd try
> ?export PIP_INSTALL_OPTION=--prefix=$PWD/local

It works very well. Thank you.

--
regards,
makoto

>
> using a config file is also possible. See
> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/configuration.html
>
> Ciao
> Marc
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 10:57:16 2011
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (Rodrick Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:57:16 -0500
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BCC79627-121D-487F-9D4D-AFEF3A9D8131@gmail.com>

You could easily script this with popen calling secure shell to execute a command and capture the output.  

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2011, at 7:04 AM, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
> 
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Roark.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From amalguseynov at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 11:02:13 2011
From: amalguseynov at gmail.com (BOOK-AZ)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <98bccd44-92b0-4a98-92c0-fb56a2ce847d@hh9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 7, 1:00?pm, "OKB (not okblacke)"
<brenNOSPAMb... at NObrenSPAMbarn.net> wrote:
> ? ? ? ? I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):
> http://book-az.com
> >>> import random, timeit
> >>> def myAll(x):
>
> ... ? ? for a in x:
> ... ? ? ? ? if a not in (True, False):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
> ... ? ? return True>>> x = [random.choice([True, False]) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
> >>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x',
>
> number=10)
> 0: 9.7685158309226452>>> timeit.timeit('all(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__
>
> import x', number=10)
> 1: 12.348196768024984>>> x = [random.randint(0,100) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
> >>> def myAll(x):
>
> ... ? ? for a in x:
> ... ? ? ? ? if not a <= 100:
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
> ... ? ? return True>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x',
>
> number=10)
> 4: 2.8248207523582209>>> timeit.timeit('all(a <= 100 for a in x)', 'gc.enable(); from
>
> __main__ import x', number=10)
> 5: 4.6433557896324942
>
> ? ? ? ? What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's
> slower than writing a function to do the check myself?
>
> --
> --OKB (not okblacke)
> Brendan Barnwell
> "Do not follow where the path may lead. ?Go, instead, where there is
> no path, and leave a trail."
> ? ? ? ? --author unknown



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Nov 15 12:01:23 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:01:23 +0000
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>>for x in a, b, c:
>>    del x[0]
>for arr in [a,b,c]:
>  arr.pop(0)

>(Peter's "del" solution is quite close, but I find the 'del' statement 
>tricky in python and will mislead many python newcomers)

Can you expand on why 'del' is "tricky"/misleading?

Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From babiucandreea at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:11:10 2011
From: babiucandreea at gmail.com (Andreea Babiuc)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:11:10 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
Message-ID: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Is there a way to suppress all the errors when importing a module in
python?

By that I mean.. If I have other imports in the module I'm trying to import
that fail, I still want my module to be imported that way..

Many thanks.
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From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Nov 15 12:24:03 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:24:03 -0800
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>

As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.

try:
 import badModule
except:
 pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
alternative module.

As with any except statement, specific exceptions may be caught
(rather than the blank, catch everything).

Chris

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Andreea Babiuc <babiucandreea at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a way to suppress all the errors when importing a module in python?
>
> By that I mean.. If I have other imports in the module I'm trying to import
> that fail, I still want my module to be imported that way..
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Nov 15 12:26:51 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:26:51 +0000
Subject: overview on dao
In-Reply-To: <96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2559.1320800531.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474018427@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>> Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".
>I just prefer shorter name.

DAO as Data Access Objects is a common acronym in several languages (i.e. Java), 
so you will continually have this naming conflict. Just be aware that this
conflict will happen frequently in the minds of many programmers.

Ramit

P.S. I vote for PyLaoziDao :P


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From babiucandreea at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:35:09 2011
From: babiucandreea at gmail.com (Andreea Babiuc)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:35:09 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:

> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.
>
> try:
>  import badModule
> except:
>



>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
> alternative module.
>
>
Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to import
the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the reason
while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if that
makes the code not 100% correct.

Does that make sense ?









> As with any except statement, specific exceptions may be caught
> (rather than the blank, catch everything).
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Andreea Babiuc <babiucandreea at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there a way to suppress all the errors when importing a module in
> python?
> >
> > By that I mean.. If I have other imports in the module I'm trying to
> import
> > that fail, I still want my module to be imported that way..
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> >
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Blog: Http://andreeababiuc.ro
Photo Portfolio: http://royaa.daportfolio.com
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From devplayer at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:56:03 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:56:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple import hook
References: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2608.1320947171.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<09619112-407e-49ba-87df-ceed03e7789e@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a61ae558-ad7c-47fd-a7ec-339a322eff89@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

And for an insane amount of what REALLY gets imported:

python.exe -B -s -S -v -v -v -v your_module_here.py %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6
%7 %8 %9

or more appropiately:

python -v -v -v -v your_module_here.py


And for completeness, if you feel those options aren't telling the
whole truth, you can turn on your operating system's file auditing for
opens and reads; I forget if there are other places that can be
imported from besides *.py, *.pyo, *.pyc, *.pyd files too (maybe
zips?)


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:57:11 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:57:11 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Andreea Babiuc wrote:

> 
> 
> On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.
> 
> try:
>  import badModule
> except:
> 
>  
>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
> alternative module.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to import the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the reason while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if that makes the code not 100% correct.
> 
> Does that make sense ?

It makes sense.  It probably also makes sense to only do an "except ImportError", since if there are other errors (say, syntax errors in a module you're trying to import, rather than its absence, you probably want to know about it.

To disable code that won't work without the module you're trying to import, you can always set flags in your module.  For example, I've got a project at work that can use a variety of communications interfaces, including using PySerial for serial port comms.  But if someone doesn't have PySerial installed, I want it to fail gracefully and just not support serial.  So I can do the following:


try:
   import serial
   _serial_enabled = True
except ImportError:
   print("PySerial not installed - serial ports not supported!")
   _serial_enabled = False


And then elsewhere in my module, I can check the value of _serial_enabled to see if I should e.g. list the serial ports in available communications interfaces.

Of course, if there's some other error in PySerial (maybe I installed a broken version with a syntax error?), that error will get propagated up, which is a good thing, because I'd rather know that PySerial is broken than just have it tell me it's not installed (which is what would happen if I simply caught all exceptions).  Your mileage may vary.

- Dave



From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 15 13:17:48 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:17:48 -0500
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>

On 11/15/2011 12:01 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> <SNIP>
>> (Peter's "del" solution is quite close, but I find the 'del' statement
>> tricky in python and will mislead many python newcomers)
> Can you expand on why 'del' is "tricky"/misleading?
>
> Ramit
>
a = someexpression...
b = a
....
del a

Does not (necessarily) delete the object that a refers to.  It merely 
deletes the symbol a.



-- 

DaveA



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov 15 13:44:44 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:44:44 +0000
Subject: overview on dao
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474018427@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2559.1320800531.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474018427@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <4EC2B31C.4060502@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 15/11/2011 17:26, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>>> Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".
>> I just prefer shorter name.
>
> DAO as Data Access Objects is a common acronym in several languages (i.e. Java),
> so you will continually have this naming conflict. Just be aware that this
> conflict will happen frequently in the minds of many programmers.
>
> Ramit
>
> P.S. I vote for PyLaoziDao :P
>
Just don't confuse it with PyDao, which is already taken. :-)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov 15 13:58:30 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:58:30 +0100
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>

David Riley wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Andreea Babiuc wrote:
>
>   
>> On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
>> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.
>>
>> try:
>>  import badModule
>> except:
>>
>>  
>>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
>> alternative module.
>>
>>
>> Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to import the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the reason while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if that makes the code not 100% correct.
>>
>> Does that make sense ?
>>     
>
> It makes sense.  It probably also makes sense to only do an "except ImportError", since if there are other errors (say, syntax errors in a module you're trying to import, rather than its absence, you probably want to know about it.
>
> To disable code that won't work without the module you're trying to import, you can always set flags in your module.  For example, I've got a project at work that can use a variety of communications interfaces, including using PySerial for serial port comms.  But if someone doesn't have PySerial installed, I want it to fail gracefully and just not support serial.  So I can do the following:
>
>
> try:
>    import serial
>    _serial_enabled = True
> except ImportError:
>    print("PySerial not installed - serial ports not supported!")
>    _serial_enabled = False
>
>
> And then elsewhere in my module, I can check the value of _serial_enabled to see if I should e.g. list the serial ports in available communications interfaces.
>
> Of course, if there's some other error in PySerial (maybe I installed a broken version with a syntax error?), that error will get propagated up, which is a good thing, because I'd rather know that PySerial is broken than just have it tell me it's not installed (which is what would happen if I simply caught all exceptions).  Your mileage may vary.
>
> - Dave
>
>   
If I'm not wrong the OP wants to disable the line *in the module being 
imported*, which is kindof silly and doesn't make sense to answer his 
question.

Anreea, tell us why the module you are importing is failing and if this 
module is yours, we may provide you a proper way to handle this 
situation (though I'm pretty sure everything is in Dave's proposal).

JM
PS : @Dave there is a way to avoiding adding symbols to your global 
namespace, assign None to the module's name on import errors. Then 
before using it, just test the module bool value : if serial: 
serial.whateverMethod()


From alisha1551 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 14:06:45 2011
From: alisha1551 at gmail.com (alisha alisha)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gossip Protocol in Python
Message-ID: <c61efe0c-fe42-4005-8957-273e72810103@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I am new to Python. I have to implement a overlay network of around
500 nodes which are arranged as a random graph. To generate theoverlay
network I will be using networkx.

My query is, is there a way to implement Gossip protocol in my overlay
network using Python. Like one node initiated the Gossip of a message,
then in how many epoch time it reaches all the nodes in the network.

Thanks.

Regards,
Alisha


From info at wingware.com  Tue Nov 15 14:18:51 2011
From: info at wingware.com (Wingware)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:18:51 -0500
Subject: Wing IDE 4.1.1 released
Message-ID: <4EC2BB1B.8080506@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 4.1.1 of Wing IDE, an integrated development
environment designed specifically for the Python programming language.

Wing IDE is a cross-platform Python IDE that provides a professional code
editor with vi, emacs, and other key bindings, auto-completion, call tips,
refactoring, context-aware auto-editing, a powerful graphical debugger,
version control, unit testing, search, and many other features.

**Changes in Version 4.1.1**

Highlights of this release include:

* Goto-definition on symbols in the shells
* Expanded and improved auto-editing support (enable this in the Edit >
   Keyboard Personality menu):
   * Auto-closing
   * Auto-enter invocation args
   * Apply quote/comment/paren/etc to selection
   * Auto-enter spaces
   * Insert EOL and indent for new block
   * Continue comment on new line
* Auto-indent when pasting multi-line text in Python code (undo once 
restores
   original indentation)
* Improved Smart Tab key option for Python
* Indent to Match menu and tool bar items toggle indentation to one indent
   position lower if already at matching indent level
* Improved auto-indent of else, elif, except, and finally
* Experimental Turbo auto-completer mode for Python that treats any non-word
   key as a completion key and Ctrl, Alt, and Command as a cancel keys
* Link to docs.python.org in Source Assistant
* Include argument names in auto-completer during invocation
* About 30 other bug fixes and minor improvements

Complete change log:  http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/4.1.1/CHANGELOG.txt

**New Features in Version 4**

Version 4 adds the following new major features:

* Refactoring -- Rename/move symbols, extract to function/method, and 
introduce variable
* Find Uses -- Find all points of use of a symbol
* Auto-Editing -- Reduce typing burden by auto-entering expected code
* Diff/Merge -- Graphical file and repository comparison and merge
* Django Support -- Debug Django templates, run Django unit tests, and more
* matplotlib Support -- Maintains live-updating plots in shell and debugger
* Simplified Licensing -- Includes all OSes and adds Support+Upgrades 
subscriptions

Details on licensing changes:  http://wingware.com/news/2011-02-16

**About Wing IDE**

Wing IDE is an integrated development environment designed specifically for
the Python programming language.  It provides powerful editing, testing, and
debugging features that help reduce development and debugging time, cut down
on coding errors, and make it easier to understand and navigate Python code.
Wing IDE can be used to develop Python code for web, GUI, and embedded
scripting applications.

Wing IDE is available in three product levels:  Wing IDE Professional is
the full-featured Python IDE, Wing IDE Personal offers a reduced feature
set at a low price, and Wing IDE 101 is a free simplified version designed
for teaching beginning programming courses with Python.

Version 4.0 of Wing IDE Professional includes the following major features:

* Professional quality code editor with vi, emacs, and other keyboard
   personalities
* Code intelligence for Python:  Auto-completion, call tips, find uses,
   goto-definition, error indicators, refactoring, context-aware 
auto-editing,
   smart indent and rewrapping, and source navigation
* Advanced multi-threaded debugger with graphical UI, command line 
interaction,
   conditional breakpoints, data value tooltips over code, watch tool, and
   externally launched and remote debugging
* Powerful search and replace options including keyboard driven and 
graphical
   UIs, multi-file, wild card, and regular expression search and replace
* Version control integration for Subversion, CVS, Bazaar, git, 
Mercurial, and
   Perforce
* Integrated unit testing with unittest, nose, and doctest frameworks
* Django support:  Debugs Django templates, provides project setup tools,
   and runs Django unit tests
* Many other features including project manager, bookmarks, code snippets,
   diff/merge tool, OS command integration, indentation manager, PyLint
   integration, and perspectives
* Extremely configurable and may be extended with Python scripts
* Extensive product documentation and How-Tos for Django, matplotlib,
   Plone, wxPython, PyQt, mod_wsgi, Autodesk Maya, and many other frameworks

Please refer to http://wingware.com/wingide/features for a detailed listing
of features by product level.

System requirements are Windows 2000 or later, OS X 10.3.9 or later 
(requires
X11 Server), or a recent Linux system (either 32 or 64 bit).  Wing IDE 
supports
Python versions 2.0.x through 3.2.x and Stackless Python.

For more information, see the http://wingware.com/

**Downloads**

Wing IDE Professional and Wing IDE Personal are commercial software and
require a license to run. A free trial can be obtained directly from the
product when launched.

Wing IDE Pro -- Full-featured product:
http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide/4.1

Wing IDE Personal -- A simplified IDE:
http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-personal/4.1

Wing IDE 101 -- For teaching with Python:
http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101/4.1

**Purchasing and Upgrading**

Wing 4.x requires an upgrade for Wing IDE 2.x and 3.x users at a cost of
1/2 the full product pricing.

Upgrade a license:       https://wingware.com/store/upgrade
Purchase a new license:  https://wingware.com/store/purchase

Optional Support+Upgrades subscriptions are available for expanded
support coverage and free upgrades to new major releases:

http://wingware.com/support/agreement

Thanks!

-- 

The Wingware Team
Wingware | Python IDE
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com



From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 14:39:01 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:39:01 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> PS : @Dave there is a way to avoiding adding symbols to your global namespace, assign None to the module's name on import errors. Then before using it, just test the module bool value : if serial: serial.whateverMethod()

True, and that does avoid polluting namespace.  However, you shouldn't be testing for None as a bool; you should instead do an "if <module> is None:" (or, of course, "is not None").

- Dave



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 14:53:26 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 06:53:26 +1100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpOkbYCXxfnRR0dYSxYCh-5B8tDppWm6JPdKTNSUwxe1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> a = someexpression...
> b = a
> ....
> del a
>
> Does not (necessarily) delete the object that a refers to. ?It merely
> deletes the symbol a.

I'd have to classify that as part of the change of thinking necessary
for a refcounted language, and not specific to del at all. The del
statement is identical to "a = None" in terms of deleting objects;
someone who's come from C++ might want to explicitly del every
variable before returning, but that's the only way that it's tied to
'del'.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:01:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:01:40 +1100
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:39 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
> True, and that does avoid polluting namespace. ?However, you shouldn't be testing for None as a bool; you should instead do an "if <module> is None:" (or, of course, "is not None").

Why not? Is there some other way for the module object to evaluate as false?

ChrisA


From passiday at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:37:03 2011
From: passiday at gmail.com (Passiday)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:37:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
Message-ID: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>

Hello,

I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.

I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.

Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:45:52 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:45:52 +1100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoqOGyrjRrxfcvYL_dWjbLTmYSisuXv4Aw126vC1ELAfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Passiday <passiday at gmail.com> wrote:
> The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.

Hmm. If it's to be an educational platform, I would recommend doing
something like the W3Schools "tryit" page [1] and just go back to the
server each time. You have potential security issues to watch out for
(so it may be worth chrooting your interpreter), but it's sure to be
easier than rewriting the entire interpreter in another language. You
would have to maintain your implementation as the language evolves,
keep it bug-free, etc, etc.

ChrisA

[1] eg http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_basic


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:52:49 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:52:49 -0700
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnMswkQUTXn_qxCrbF7XBmf1aDLihRikwK2cjOCJY_X=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Passiday <passiday at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.

You could take a look at pyjamas, but it's precompiled.  I don't know
whether they have support for runtime compilation at all.


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:08:28 2011
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:08:28 +0100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <4EC2D4CC.2090601@gmail.com>

On 15-11-2011 21:37, Passiday wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?
skulpt ?

cheers,
Stef


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:20:33 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:20:33 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:39 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> True, and that does avoid polluting namespace.  However, you shouldn't be testing for None as a bool; you should instead do an "if <module> is None:" (or, of course, "is not None").
> 
> Why not? Is there some other way for the module object to evaluate as false?

Well, probably not.  It was my understanding that "None" evaluating to a Boolean false was not necessarily guaranteed; I've even gotten some warnings from Python to that effect, though I can't recall the context in which that happened.  In any case, PEP 8 states:

      Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
      'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.

      Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
      -- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
      None was set to some other value.  The other value might have a type
      (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!

Obviously, that last bit doesn't apply to modules; they're not going to evaluate as False in general.  I just bristle when I see people writing "if x" when they really mean "if x is not None", perhaps because it's not The Right Way(tm)?  It mostly comes down to aesthetics, I guess.  Write what you really mean.

- Dave



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:34:02 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:34:02 +1100
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>   ? ?Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
> ? ? ?'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.
>
> ? ? ?Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
> ? ? ?-- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
> ? ? ?None was set to some other value. ?The other value might have a type
> ? ? ?(such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!

It's probably quicker to execute "if x is None" than "if x"
(presumably the former just compares the two pointers). On the other
hand, it's more compact to leave off the "is None". And on the
gripping hand, neither "quicker to execute" nor "more compact" equates
to "more Pythonic".

ChrisA


From arnodel at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:42:22 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:42:22 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1ZDAnWRH2GDWHFaLFvanx1Ga6n5=Cb79jX4oPNpeO52rQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 November 2011 21:34, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ? ? ?Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
>> ? ? ?'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.
>>
>> ? ? ?Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
>> ? ? ?-- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
>> ? ? ?None was set to some other value. ?The other value might have a type
>> ? ? ?(such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>
> It's probably quicker to execute "if x is None" than "if x"
> (presumably the former just compares the two pointers). On the other
> hand, it's more compact to leave off the "is None". And on the
> gripping hand, neither "quicker to execute" nor "more compact" equates
> to "more Pythonic".

It's idiomatic to write "x is None" when you want to know whether x is None.

-- 
Arnaud


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 17:09:31 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:09:31 -0700
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6cK1ZDAnWRH2GDWHFaLFvanx1Ga6n5=Cb79jX4oPNpeO52rQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ6cK1ZDAnWRH2GDWHFaLFvanx1Ga6n5=Cb79jX4oPNpeO52rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnfjtq3Zfof9aSC_CvpbC7ehge5cf_Dc=zGUYtiP5AmxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's idiomatic to write "x is None" when you want to know whether x is None.

It's also idiomatic to just write "if x:" when you want to know
whether x is something or nothing, and that's what I would probably do
here.  Either is correct.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 15 17:15:18 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:15:18 -0500
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnMswkQUTXn_qxCrbF7XBmf1aDLihRikwK2cjOCJY_X=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<CALwzidnMswkQUTXn_qxCrbF7XBmf1aDLihRikwK2cjOCJY_X=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9uo9p$6uc$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/15/2011 3:52 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Passiday<passiday at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>>
>> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> You could take a look at pyjamas, but it's precompiled.  I don't know
> whether they have support for runtime compilation at all.

Perhaps one could use pyjamas to compile pypy to javascript ;-).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 15 17:21:41 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 22:21:41 GMT
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2733.1321376515.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec2e5f4$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:01:23 +0000, Prasad, Ramit wrote:

> Can you expand on why 'del' is "tricky"/misleading?

People often imagine that the del statement sends a message to the object 
"please delete yourself", which then calls the __del__ method. That is 
incorrect.

"del x" is an unbinding operation, it removes the *name* "x" from the 
current namespace. As a side-effect, if the object which was bound to x 
no longer has any other references to it, then the garbage collector will 
delete it and __del__ may be called.

(I say "may be called" rather than "will" because there are circumstances 
where __del__ methods won't get called, such as during interpreter 
shutdown.)

On the other hand, "del x[i]" does work like the way people expect. It 
deletes items from collections (lists, dicts, etc.) and does so by 
calling the method x.__delitem__(i). This also may cause the garbage 
collector to delete the object which was at x[i] if that was the last 
reference to that object.

CPython's implementation keeps a count of references for each object, and 
the garbage collector deletes the object immediately that reference count 
reaches zero. This is fast, simple, deterministic (objects will be 
predictably deleted as soon as they can be), but simple-minded, and so it 
is aided by a second garbage collector which runs periodically, looking 
for reference cycles. You can set how often this second garbage collector 
runs using the gc module.

Jython uses the Java garbage collector, and IronPython the .Net garbage 
collector. Neither are reference counters, and (as far as I know) neither 
guarantees that objects will be deleted as soon as they are free to be 
deleted. They will be deleted whenever the garbage collector gets around 
to it.


-- 
Steven


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Nov 15 17:22:21 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:22:21 -0800
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuVR1KHBqV8D+gFZ4e1ftyGGX=fEcem5WvDXwyfdS0_UQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ? ? ?Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
>> ? ? ?'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.
>>
>> ? ? ?Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
>> ? ? ?-- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
>> ? ? ?None was set to some other value. ?The other value might have a type
>> ? ? ?(such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>
> It's probably quicker to execute "if x is None" than "if x"
> (presumably the former just compares the two pointers). On the other
> hand, it's more compact to leave off the "is None". And on the
> gripping hand, neither "quicker to execute" nor "more compact" equates
> to "more Pythonic".

I decided to run some tests to see which is faster. As is turns out,
in simple cases (eg, True), "if x: pass" is faster than "if x is None:
pass" if x is True, and otherwise its the same. If x is a custom type
(I only tested a simple custom class written in Python), "if x is
None: pass" is significantly faster.

Overall, performance-wise, it is irrelevant - use the code that is the
most clear in the situation. Only if there is a custom type involved,
and then only if that type defines Python code to be executed, does it
matter.

The tests (the code is shown later - its about 53 lines, with lots of
copy+paste...):
1a: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if None: pass
1b: 0.03 usec/pass  --  if True: pass
1c: 0.27 usec/pass  --  if customObjectWithNonZero: pass
1d: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if customObjectNoNonZero: pass
2a: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if None is None: pass
2b: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if True is None: pass
2c: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if customObjectWithNonZero is None: pass
2d: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if customObjectNoNonZero is None: pass

The tests were run on Python 2.6x64 on Windows:
2.6.4 (r264:75706, Aug  4 2010, 17:00:56) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)]

The code:
import timeit

def test():
	numRuns = 10000000
	
	statement1 = 'if x: pass'
	statement2 = 'if x is None: pass'
	setup1 = 'x = None'
	setup2 = 'x = True'
	setup3 = '''
class Test(object):
	def __nonzero__(self):
		return True
x = Test()'''
	setup4 = '''
class Test(object):
	pass
x = Test()'''
		
	t1a = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup1)
	t1b = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup2)
	t1c = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup3)
	t1d = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup4)
	t2a = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup1)
	t2b = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup2)
	t2c = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup3)
	t2d = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup4)
	
	a1 = []
	b1 = []
	c1 = []
	d1 = []
	a2 = []
	b2 = []
	c2 = []
	d2 = []
	for i in xrange(10):
		a1.append(1000000 * t1a.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		b1.append(1000000 * t1b.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		c1.append(1000000 * t1c.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		d1.append(1000000 * t1d.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		a2.append(1000000 * t2a.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		b2.append(1000000 * t2b.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		c2.append(1000000 * t2c.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		d2.append(1000000 * t2d.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
	print "1a: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(a1) / len(a1),)
	print "1b: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(b1) / len(b1),)
	print "1c: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(c1) / len(c1),)
	print "1d: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(d1) / len(d1),)
	print "2a: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(a2) / len(a2),)
	print "2b: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(b2) / len(b2),)
	print "2c: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(c2) / len(c2),)
	print "2d: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(d2) / len(d2),)


>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 15 17:25:16 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 22:25:16 GMT
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
	<mailman.2745.1321386809.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec2e6cb$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 06:53:26 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>> a = someexpression...
>> b = a
>> ....
>> del a
>>
>> Does not (necessarily) delete the object that a refers to. ?It merely
>> deletes the symbol a.
> 
> I'd have to classify that as part of the change of thinking necessary
> for a refcounted language, and not specific to del at all. 

Languages aren't refcounted. Or at least, *Python* isn't a refcounted 
language. CPython is a refcounted implementation. IronPython and Jython 
are not. del behaves exactly the same in IronPython and Jython as it does 
in CPython: it removes the name, which may have a side-effect of deleting 
the object.


> The del
> statement is identical to "a = None" in terms of deleting objects;

I'm not entirely sure what you arr trying to say here. I *think* you are 
trying to say is this:

    Given that `a` is bound to my_object initially, `del a` 
    from the point of view of my_object is no different 
    from re-binding a to some other object such as None 
    (or any other object).

which is true as far as it goes, but it fails to note that the name "a" 
no longer exists after `del a` while it does exist after `a = None`.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 15 17:34:34 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 22:34:34 GMT
Subject: suppressing import errors
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2755.1321395765.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec2e8fa$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:22:21 -0800, Chris Kaynor wrote:

> The tests (the code is shown later - its about 53 lines, with lots of
> copy+paste...):

Holy unnecessarily complicated code Batman!

This is much simpler:

[steve at ando ~]$ python -m timeit -s "x = None" "if x is None: pass"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0738 usec per loop
[steve at ando ~]$ python -m timeit -s "x = True" "if x is None: pass"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0799 usec per loop

The difference is too small to be significant. If I run the same tests 
multiple times, the winner could easily change.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 17:54:15 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:54:15 +1100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <4ec2e6cb$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
	<mailman.2745.1321386809.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec2e6cb$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmooBtAy+FsB6BVEokQ6z8oQoHmWUb1-9HAx5K2rwXbu0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Languages aren't refcounted. Or at least, *Python* isn't a refcounted
> language. CPython is a refcounted implementation. IronPython and Jython
> are not. del behaves exactly the same in IronPython and Jython as it does
> in CPython: it removes the name, which may have a side-effect of deleting
> the object.

Yes, I was sloppy there. A non-manually-memory-managed language, if
you will; it's part of Python's spec that you do NOT have to
explicitly release objects you're no longer using.

>> The del
>> statement is identical to "a = None" in terms of deleting objects;
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you arr trying to say here. I *think* you are
> trying to say is this:
>
> ? ?Given that `a` is bound to my_object initially, `del a`
> ? ?from the point of view of my_object is no different
> ? ?from re-binding a to some other object such as None
> ? ?(or any other object).
>
> which is true as far as it goes, but it fails to note that the name "a"
> no longer exists after `del a` while it does exist after `a = None`.

Right. Both actions have the same effect wrt deleting my_object; the
only connection between Python's "del" and C++'s "delete" is that,
which del shares with "a = None".

The fact is that, regardless of the Python implementation, deleting
*objects* is not the programmer's responsibility. The only thing he
can or must do is delete *names*.

del a
del globals()['a']
globals().__delitem__('a')

are all roughly equivalent (assuming that a is global). Maybe this is
the best way to explain it - that you're deleting from a "dictionary"
(which may or may not actually be implemented as a dict) of local
names.

ChrisA


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 17:59:12 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:59:12 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2750.1321392038.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2750.1321392038.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EC2EEC0.2090806@yahoo.com>

On 11/15/2011 4:20 PM, David Riley wrote:
...
>        None was set to some other value.  The other value might have a type
>        (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>
> Obviously, that last bit doesn't apply to modules; they're not going to evaluate as False in general.  I just bristle when I see people writing "if x" when they really mean "if x is not None", perhaps because it's not The Right Way(tm)?  It mostly comes down to aesthetics, I guess.  Write what you really mean.

Actually Dave, as your quote from PEP 8 says, the difference is real. 
It's not just aesthetics.

Consider this:

x = None
if x:
   print('if x == true')
else:
   print('if x == false')
if x is None:
   print('x is None == true')
else:
   print('x is none == false')

y = ''
if y:
   print('if y == true')
else:
   print('if y == false')
if y is None:
   print('y is None == true')
else:
   print('y is none == false')

The result is:

if x == false
x is None == true
if y == false
y is none == false

     Alan


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 18:05:49 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:05:49 -0500
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <4EC2F04D.5030801@yahoo.com>

On 11/15/2011 3:37 PM, Passiday wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?

I don't have any good ideas for how to do this, but I do have a warning. 
  The JavaScript security model prohibits a lot of things that Python 
does not prohibit.  So if you need to do anything like access a file on 
the user's machine or talk to some computer other than the one you came 
from, it won't work.

    Alan


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 18:15:45 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:15:45 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <4EC2EEC0.2090806@yahoo.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2750.1321392038.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EC2EEC0.2090806@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0D538417-B0EC-4C2E-B810-53038AB86D3C@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 5:59 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:

> On 11/15/2011 4:20 PM, David Riley wrote:
> ...
>>       None was set to some other value.  The other value might have a type
>>       (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>> 
>> Obviously, that last bit doesn't apply to modules; they're not going to evaluate as False in general.  I just bristle when I see people writing "if x" when they really mean "if x is not None", perhaps because it's not The Right Way(tm)?  It mostly comes down to aesthetics, I guess.  Write what you really mean.
> 
> Actually Dave, as your quote from PEP 8 says, the difference is real. It's not just aesthetics.

 I guess I meant it's aesthetics when it comes down to determining whether a module is None or not; a module is never going to evaluate to False under any feasible circumstances.  It's not an aesthetic difference when you consider that the global (or local) namespace may be polluted with other variables that have the same name as your module, but then your evaluation would be entirely invalid anyway.

But yes, in the general case, it's much more than an aesthetic difference, which is why I always write "if x is None" when I want to know if it's None (rather than False, 0, [], "", etc).  I have been bitten way too many times by doing the lazy thing to keep doing it.

- Dave



From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 21:22:11 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 03:22:11 +0100
Subject: redis beginner question
Message-ID: <CAOuJsM=gndD5jMkFGngX2EMhsebVYLgbZ5UCEUiBHptSPQrW7A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm reading the redis documentation and there is one thing that
bothers me. For redis, you need to start a server on localhost. Is
there an easy way that my Python script starts this server
automatically? Before using my script, I don't want to start
redis-server each time. When my program terminates, the server could
be shut down automatically.

Thanks,

Laszlo


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 21:51:19 2011
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

On Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:37:03 PM UTC-8, Passiday wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
> 
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
> 
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?


Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and have managed to build Python 2.7 with it.

The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.

https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki

Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:

http://repl.it/


Carl Banks


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:02:25 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:02:25 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> As a general rule, if any parent is invisible, you won't see the
> child, and if any parent is disabled, you can't access the child.


Yea, I'm becoming more familiar and comfortable with the GUI hierarchy as I
play around.  I do like how simple it is to test a concept in Tkinter (just
a couple lines builds you a window with any kind of widget you want).


> You
> may find that there's even a one-line command that will disable the
> window, open a new window, wait for the new window to close, and
> automatically reenable the window - an "open modal dialog" function or
> something.
>

Apparently I could not do what I was wanting to (state=DISABLED is not a
valid option to Toplevel).  What I wanted to do was something similar to
what the dialogs were doing from tkMessageBox.  The window didn't appear
changed, but no buttons could be clicked.  After looking through the
tkMessageBox.py source code, I found the method I was looking for:
grab_set.  Essentially, I just have to have my new window call its
grab_set() method to hog all events.  Not really "disabling" the root
window (which is why I had a hard time finding it on Google), but it's the
exact behavior I was looking for.
http://www.python-forum.org/pythonforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4930 was
helpful here.

The only other approach I (successfully) tried was to use the .withdraw()
method on the window during the constructor of the *new* window and execute
.deiconify() on it during the new window's destroy() method (before calling
Toplevel's destroy on self).  I still like the first way better.

Thanks!
Jason
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From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 15 22:11:48 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:11:48 -0500
Subject: redis beginner question
References: <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm reading the redis documentation and there is one thing that
> bothers me. For redis, you need to start a server on localhost. Is
> there an easy way that my Python script starts this server
> automatically? Before using my script, I don't want to start
> redis-server each time. When my program terminates, the server could
> be shut down automatically.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Laszlo

Why do you want to stop redis after your program terminates?  Generally, 
you just start redis up when the system boots and leave it running.


From john.37 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:28:46 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:28:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stucked with python logging module
Message-ID: <3ce63c21-1880-4cb2-979a-1c806ace4d8f@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I just scaned through the beginer's guide of logging module, but I
can't get anything from console. The demo just like this:

import logging
logging.debug("This is a demo")

Maybe I should do sth to put the log to stdout in basicConfig first?
Thanks in advance


From goldtech at worldpost.com  Tue Nov 15 22:38:48 2011
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:38:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
Message-ID: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
commands?

I don't need output of commands just what I typed it. I need it to
save between sessions - something that no shell seems to do. If I
reboot there will still be a command history somewhere.

Like bash history in Linux.

Thanks


From john.37 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:45:06 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:45:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <905c6590-84e0-4eab-80bd-3daf12d0a326@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Maybe you're looking for ipython? History, tab-complete, sort of
things in it.

goldtech wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?
>
> I don't need output of commands just what I typed it. I need it to
> save between sessions - something that no shell seems to do. If I
> reboot there will still be a command history somewhere.
>
> Like bash history in Linux.
>
> Thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:49:37 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:49:37 +1100
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=2ttqEJv-jYUMp9We78UHmm+2P51jw9C62mhX+k4zgQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently I could not do what I was wanting to (state=DISABLED is not a
> valid option to Toplevel).? What I wanted to do was something similar to
> what the dialogs were doing from tkMessageBox.

Yes, that would be what you'd want. I wonder, though: Is Toplevel the
right window class? There may be a better class for a subwindow.
Again, I'm not familiar with Tkinter, but a quick google suggests that
Frame or Window might be worth looking into. Ideally, you want the
window to disable its parent and claim all events.

ChrisA


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 00:13:10 2011
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:43:10 +0530
Subject: Stucked with python logging module
In-Reply-To: <3ce63c21-1880-4cb2-979a-1c806ace4d8f@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <3ce63c21-1880-4cb2-979a-1c806ace4d8f@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8GtdPCU2KdU9GSDg7T9UiEJ+QoFibCTDo+tif_nQUrqzcjeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:58 AM, sword <john.37 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just scaned through the beginer's guide of logging module, but I
> can't get anything from console. The demo just like this:
>
> import logging
> logging.debug("This is a demo")
>
> Maybe I should do sth to put the log to stdout in basicConfig first?

Actually, the problem is not of the output location, but of the
logging level.  In the default configuration, logs at DEBUG level are
suppressed.  logging.basicConfig will be a simple way to change this.
Are you following the logging documentation at
http://docs.python.org/py3k/howto/logging.html#logging-basic-tutorial?
 This page is part of the documentation of the logging module, and is
suitable for first-time logging module users.

In your case, you can do this:

import logging
logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
logging.debug("This is a demo")

-- 
regards,
kushal


From john.37 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 01:09:53 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
Message-ID: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.

Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
#file: a.py
import logging

logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
def print_log():
    logger.debug("I'm module a")

#file: b.py just like a.py
import logging
logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
def print_log():
    logger.debug("I'm module b")

#file: main.py
import logging
from logging import Filter
logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
logger=logging.getLogger("main")
logger.debug("This is main process")
logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))

And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
log only. But it turned out that all logs there.  Is it the problem of
root logger?




From passiday at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 02:05:21 2011
From: passiday at gmail.com (Passiday)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:05:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <27707069.794.1321427121532.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqff21>

Thanks Carl, this looks like a good base to start from.


From passiday at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 02:07:15 2011
From: passiday at gmail.com (Passiday)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:07:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <4EC2F04D.5030801@yahoo.com>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<4EC2F04D.5030801@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <11268744.795.1321427235257.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqff21>

Of course, I am aware of this. But the file system can be emulated, and certain networking can be mediated via the server, too. But for starts, I don't plan to go beyond the basic file operations, if at all.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Nov 16 03:37:47 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:37:47 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3765B.2020204@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/11/2011 03:38, goldtech wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?

Have a look at DreamPie:

http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/

TJG


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Nov 16 04:08:24 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:08:24 +0100
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
Message-ID: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain 
performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found 
that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are 
much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU 
load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc.

What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools 
available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, 
but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret 
programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions?

Cheers!

Uli



From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 05:39:09 2011
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:39:09 +0100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo-TfoRLS3H76FUvx-xDj21kWkc0cERVb0jOtxVx_CQ5Xg@mail.gmail.com>

H?llo

I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in
> order to provide a web-based application with python scripting
> capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the
> python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in
> JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the
> interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all
> this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming
> in python.
>

You might be looking for http://www.skulpt.org/
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From babiucandreea at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 06:05:10 2011
From: babiucandreea at gmail.com (Andreea Babiuc)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:05:10 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAC82khn=vp3cVnQHcJ=xN8-6PaJty_xAbUJ2=uKOuy5PV=LFMw@mail.gmail.com>

Loving the offtopic guys, sorry I have to go back to my problem now..

In the module I want to import I have a few import statements for Maya
commands that don't work outside Maya unless I use the Maya standalone
interpreter.
So before I import this module I need to make sure I import maya and
maya.standalone.
I make sure I place the correct paths in sys.path, but I get the following
error:
    import maya.standalone
ImportError:
/apps/Linux64/aw/maya2012/lib/python2.6/site-packages/maya/../../../../lib/libOGSDeviceOGL-2_7.so:
undefined symbol: cgGetParameterBufferIndex
Now, I've googled this error and couldn't find anything on it and I'd have
no idea why it wouldn't work. It's not a python related error so I
understand if you couldn't help me with this, but since you've asked :D

I am thinking of using eval for each line in the module i want to import
(instead of importing it )  and just ignoring the maya related commands.
I can't and shouldn't edit any of these modules, I instead have to parse
them and interpret the parameters types without actually executing the
functions..

Thanks a lot,
Andreea





On 15 November 2011 18:58, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>wrote:

> David Riley wrote:
>
>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Andreea Babiuc wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except
>>> block.
>>>
>>> try:
>>>  import badModule
>>> except:
>>>
>>>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
>>> alternative module.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to
>>> import the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the
>>> reason while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if
>>> that makes the code not 100% correct.
>>>
>>> Does that make sense ?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It makes sense.  It probably also makes sense to only do an "except
>> ImportError", since if there are other errors (say, syntax errors in a
>> module you're trying to import, rather than its absence, you probably want
>> to know about it.
>>
>> To disable code that won't work without the module you're trying to
>> import, you can always set flags in your module.  For example, I've got a
>> project at work that can use a variety of communications interfaces,
>> including using PySerial for serial port comms.  But if someone doesn't
>> have PySerial installed, I want it to fail gracefully and just not support
>> serial.  So I can do the following:
>>
>>
>> try:
>>   import serial
>>   _serial_enabled = True
>> except ImportError:
>>   print("PySerial not installed - serial ports not supported!")
>>   _serial_enabled = False
>>
>>
>> And then elsewhere in my module, I can check the value of _serial_enabled
>> to see if I should e.g. list the serial ports in available communications
>> interfaces.
>>
>> Of course, if there's some other error in PySerial (maybe I installed a
>> broken version with a syntax error?), that error will get propagated up,
>> which is a good thing, because I'd rather know that PySerial is broken than
>> just have it tell me it's not installed (which is what would happen if I
>> simply caught all exceptions).  Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>>
>>
> If I'm not wrong the OP wants to disable the line *in the module being
> imported*, which is kindof silly and doesn't make sense to answer his
> question.
>
> Anreea, tell us why the module you are importing is failing and if this
> module is yours, we may provide you a proper way to handle this situation
> (though I'm pretty sure everything is in Dave's proposal).
>
> JM
> PS : @Dave there is a way to avoiding adding symbols to your global
> namespace, assign None to the module's name on import errors. Then before
> using it, just test the module bool value : if serial:
> serial.whateverMethod()
>



-- 
Blog: Http://andreeababiuc.ro
Photo Portfolio: http://royaa.daportfolio.com
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Nov 16 06:40:02 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:40:02 +0100
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
In-Reply-To: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3A112.70400@sequans.com>

sword wrote:
> The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
> contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.
>
> Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
> #file: a.py
> import logging
>
> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> def print_log():
>     logger.debug("I'm module a")
>
> #file: b.py just like a.py
> import logging
> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> def print_log():
>     logger.debug("I'm module b")
>
> #file: main.py
> import logging
> from logging import Filter
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> logger=logging.getLogger("main")
> logger.debug("This is main process")
> logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))
>
> And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
> log only. But it turned out that all logs there.  Is it the problem of
> root logger?
>
>
>   
Hi,

First of all, in the code you provided we can't see where you import a & 
b, and when you call their respective print_log method.
Secondly,Filter("a") would allow only the "a" log events, not forbid 
them. quoting the docs: "if name is specified, it names a logger which, 
together with its children, will have its events allowed through the 
filter."

As for your problem it may come from the fact that you applied the 
filter to the 'main' logger, while you probably want to add the filter 
to the *root* logger. Your current hierarchy is

root
  - main
  - a
  - b

events fired from 'a' will be handled by the root logger, not the main.
root = logging.getLogger()
root.addFilter('main')
root.addFilter('a')
root.addFilter('b')

JM


From john.37 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 07:31:08 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:31:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 16, 7:40?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> sword wrote:
> > The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
> > contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.
>
> > Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
> > #file: a.py
> > import logging
>
> > logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> > def print_log():
> > ? ? logger.debug("I'm module a")
>
> > #file: b.py just like a.py
> > import logging
> > logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> > def print_log():
> > ? ? logger.debug("I'm module b")
>
> > #file: main.py
> > import logging
> > from logging import Filter
> > logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > logger=logging.getLogger("main")
> > logger.debug("This is main process")
> > logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))
>
> > And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
> > log only. But it turned out that all logs there. ?Is it the problem of
> > root logger?
>
> Hi,
>
> First of all, in the code you provided we can't see where you import a &
> b, and when you call their respective print_log method.
> Secondly,Filter("a") would allow only the "a" log events, not forbid
> them. quoting the docs: "if name is specified, it names a logger which,
> together with its children, will have its events allowed through the
> filter."
>
> As for your problem it may come from the fact that you applied the
> filter to the 'main' logger, while you probably want to add the filter
> to the *root* logger. Your current hierarchy is
>
> root
> ? - main
> ? - a
> ? - b
>
> events fired from 'a' will be handled by the root logger, not the main.
> root = logging.getLogger()
> root.addFilter('main')
> root.addFilter('a')
> root.addFilter('b')
>
> JM

Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
main.py looks like this:
#main.py
import logging
from logging import Filter
import a
import b

logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
root = logging.getLogger()
root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
would pass this filter

logger = logging.getLogger("main")
logger.debug("main process")
a.print_log()
b.print_log()

####
And It still prints out all the log msg. :(


From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 08:09:43 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:09:43 +0100
Subject: redis beginner question
In-Reply-To: <roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMkFfaaNgi4-15iEkEJqOg-GOJW2gakJBrqaGWyPqFKGeA@mail.gmail.com>

> Why do you want to stop redis after your program terminates? ?Generally,
> you just start redis up when the system boots and leave it running.

Hi,

OK, so it's more like MySQL or PostgeSQL, i.e. leave the server
running in the background. I wanted to use it like SQLite, i.e. let it
run only when I need it.

Laszlo


From dutche at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 08:48:16 2011
From: dutche at gmail.com (Eduardo Oliva)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:48:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multiple threads
Message-ID: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.

What I want to do is:

  I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
  I know that Semaphores would help with that.
  But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

Any help would be great.

Thank you in advance


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 08:55:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:55:40 +1100
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Eduardo Oliva <dutche at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.
>
> What I want to do is:
>
> ?I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
> ?I know that Semaphores would help with that.
> ?But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

First off, it's better in CPython (the most popular Python) to use
multiple processes than multiple threads. That aside, what you're
looking at is a pretty common model - a large number of tasks being
served by a pool of workers.

Have a look at the multiprocessing module, specifically Pool:
Version 2: http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
Version 3: http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/multiprocessing.html

Should be fairly straightforward.

ChrisA


From hfaber at invalid.net  Wed Nov 16 09:07:48 2011
From: hfaber at invalid.net (Henrik Faber)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:07:48 +0100
Subject: Multiple threads
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <ja0g3h$nb0$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 16.11.2011 14:48, Eduardo Oliva wrote:

>   I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
>   I know that Semaphores would help with that.
>   But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

Absolute standard request, has nothing to do with Python. The way to go
(in Cish pseudocode) is:

thread() {
	/* do work */
	[...]

	/* finished! */
	semaphore++;
}

semaphore = 2
while (jobs) {
	semaphore--; 	// will block if pool exhausted
	thread();
}

// in the end, collect remaining two workers
semaphore -= 2		// will block until all are finished


Best regards,
Henrik


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 09:36:40 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:36:40 -0500
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>

In article <95bcp8-bft.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
 Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain 
> performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found 
> that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are 
> much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU 
> load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc.
> 
> What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools 
> available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, 
> but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret 
> programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions?

It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately 
measure, things like CPU or network load.  There's so much stuff you 
can't even begin to see.  The state of your main memory cache.  Disk 
fragmentation.  What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs 
having to do a physical disk read.  How slow your DNS server is today.

What I suggest is instrumenting your unit test suite to record not just 
the pas/fail status of every test, but also the test duration.  Stick 
these into a database as the tests run.  Over time, you will accumulate 
a whole lot of performance data, which you can then start to mine.

While you're running the tests, gather as much system performance data 
as you can (output of top, vmstat, etc) and stick that into your 
database too.  You never know when you'll want to refer to the data, so 
just collect it all and save it forever.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 09:37:09 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:37:09 -0500
Subject: redis beginner question
References: <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.2766.1321449007.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-8F1618.09370916112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2766.1321449007.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Why do you want to stop redis after your program terminates? ?Generally,
> > you just start redis up when the system boots and leave it running.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> OK, so it's more like MySQL or PostgeSQL, i.e. leave the server
> running in the background.

That's how I would treat it.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 16 09:50:51 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:50:51 +0100
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja0ijv$u3o$1@dough.gmane.org>

sword wrote:

> Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> main.py looks like this:
> #main.py
> import logging
> from logging import Filter
> import a
> import b
> 
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> root = logging.getLogger()
> root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> would pass this filter
> 
> logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> logger.debug("main process")
> a.print_log()
> b.print_log()
> 
> ####
> And It still prints out all the log msg. :(

Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:

$ cat demo.py
import logging
class Filter(logging.Filter):
    def filter(self, record):
        print "applying filter", self.name
        return True

logging.basicConfig()

loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
for logger in loggers:
    logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))

[handler] = logging.getLogger().handlers
handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))

for logger in loggers:
    logger.critical("whatever")
$ python demo.py
applying filter filter at root
applying filter filter at handler
CRITICAL:root:whatever
applying filter filter at a
applying filter filter at handler
CRITICAL:a:whatever
applying filter filter at a.b
applying filter filter at handler
CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
$

As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger 
and of the handler(s) are applied.





From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 16 10:01:15 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:01:15 +0100
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <ja0j7r$38m$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 16.11.2011 14:48, schrieb Eduardo Oliva:
> Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.
> 
> What I want to do is:
> 
>   I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
>   I know that Semaphores would help with that.
>   But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

I suggest a slight different approach: use a queue [1] and create two
worker threads that consume the queue. You don't need multiprocessing
because you are already using multiple processes here (one Python and
two ffmpeg processes).

Christian

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/queue.html



From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Wed Nov 16 11:45:29 2011
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:45:29 +0100
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <ja0pbf$4em$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 16.11.2011 14:48 schrieb Eduardo Oliva:
> Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.
>
> What I want to do is:
>
>    I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
>    I know that Semaphores would help with that.
>    But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.
>
> Any help would be great.

I'm not sure if you need threads at all: if you launch a process with 
subprocess, it runs and you only would have to wait() for it. The same 
can be done with two processes.

Pseudocode:

LIMIT = 2

processes = []


def do_waiting(limit):
     while len(processes) >= limit:
         % take the first one...
         sp = processes.pop(0)
         % wait for it...
         st = sp.wait(100)
         if is None:
             % timeout, not finished yet, push back.
             processes.append(sp)
         else:
             % finished - don't push back, let outer for loop continue.
             print sp, "has finished with", st

for fname in list:
     % launch process ...
     sp = subprocess.Popen(...)
     % ... and register it.
     processes.append(sp)
     % If we are on the limit, wait for process to finish.
     do_waiting(LIMIT)

do_waiting(1)


Thomas


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Wed Nov 16 11:57:27 2011
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Frederic Rentsch)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:57:27 +0100
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
Message-ID: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>

Hi all,


I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:

	try: (command)
	except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e

I may get something like:

	(1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")

If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
the name:

	except: (handle)

But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

Frederic





From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 12:00:57 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:00:57 +0000
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> First off, it's better in CPython (the most popular Python) to use
> multiple processes than multiple threads.


I had been looking into treads and process/subprocess myself a while ago
and couldn't decide which would suit what I needed to do best. I'm still
very confused about the whole thing. Can you elaborate on the above a bit
please?

Cheers,

Jack
-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
-------------- next part --------------
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From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Nov 16 12:09:39 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:09:39 -0800
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch
<anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
>
> ? ? ? ?try: (command)
> ? ? ? ?except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
>
> I may get something like:
>
> ? ? ? ?(1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
>
> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> the name:
>
> ? ? ? ?except: (handle)
>
> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

except Exception, e: (or, in Py3, except Exception as e is prefereed).

Note that you should generally avoid bare except statements "except:"
as that will catch everything, including KeyboardInterrupt and
SystemExit which may not be desirable.

Even without saving the exception in the except statement, you can get
the type, value, and traceback with the sys.exc_info command. See
http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.exc_info

For example:

py>import sys
py>try:
py> raise RuntimeError
py> except:
py> print sys.exc_info()
py>
(<type 'exceptions.RuntimeError'>, RuntimeError(), <traceback object
at 0x0000000002371588>)

>
> Frederic
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov 16 12:27:52 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:27:52 -0500
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>

On 11/16/2011 12:00 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Chris Angelico<rosuav at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> First off, it's better in CPython (the most popular Python) to use
>> multiple processes than multiple threads.
>
> I had been looking into treads and process/subprocess myself a while ago
> and couldn't decide which would suit what I needed to do best. I'm still
> very confused about the whole thing. Can you elaborate on the above a bit
> please?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jack
Threads and processes are a concept that exists in your operating 
system, and Python can use either of them to advantage, depending on the 
problem.  Note that different OS also handle them differently, so code 
that's optimal on one system might not be as optimal on another.  Still, 
some generalities can be made.

Each process is a separate program, with its own address space and its 
own file handles, etc.  You can examine them separately with task 
manager, for example.  If you launch multiple processes, they might not 
even all have to be python, so if one problem can be handled by an 
existing program, just run it as a separate process.   Processes are 
generally very protected from each other, and the OS is generally better 
at scheduling them than it is at scheduling threads within a single 
process.  If you have multiple cores, the processes can really run 
simultaneously, frequently with very small overhead.  The downside is 
that you cannot share variables between processes without extra work, so 
if the two tasks are very interdependent, it's more of a pain to use 
separate processes.

Within one process, you can have multiple threads.  On some OS, and in 
some languages, this can be extremely efficient.  Some programs launch 
hundreds of threads, and use them to advantage.  By default, it's easy 
to share data between threads, since they're in the same address space.  
But the downsides are 1) it's very easy to trash another thread by 
walking on its variables.  2) Python does a lousy job of letting threads 
work independently.  For CPU-bound tasks, using separate threads is 
likely to be slower than just doing it all in one thread.

-- 

DaveA



From tahoemph at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 12:55:24 2011
From: tahoemph at gmail.com (Michael Hunter)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:55:24 -0800
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAGHENPSX25MH-GoXOERV19iXd8em=W+_owmSJi6V5GsmeV=1sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> On 11/16/2011 12:00 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>[...] Processes [...] and the OS is generally better at scheduling them than it is at
> scheduling threads within a single process. ?If you have multiple cores, the
> processes can really run simultaneously, frequently with very small
> overhead. ?[...]

Maybe you are trying to simplify things but in a lot of cases this is
just false.  In at least some operating systems these days a thread is
the basic unit that is scheduled.  Processes are thread containers
that provide other things (fds, separate address space, etc.).  The
comment about multiple cores can be extended to multiple threads on a
core (CMT) but applies to threads as well as processes.  Switching
between processes tends to be heavier weight then switching between
threads in a process because of the needs to change the address space.

Just because Python sucks at threads doesn't make them heavier for the OS.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't use multiprocessing.  The problem
asked about seems a good fit to me to a single python process starting
and managing a set of external converter processes.

              Michael


From furoscame at 7fun.de  Wed Nov 16 13:00:38 2011
From: furoscame at 7fun.de (furoscame)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:00:38 +0100
Subject: How to use pySerial under Windows 7 without administrator rights
Message-ID: <ja0tno$eel$1@news.m-online.net>

Hello together,

currently I try to use pySerial under Windows 7. But it is not possible 
to open a serial port without running the script under adminstrator 
rights. Other programs like Terraterm are able to so without 
adminstrator rights. What is the reason for that and is it possible open 
a port without administrator rights in Python?

regards furoscame


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov 16 13:06:40 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:06:40 -0500
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <CAGHENPSX25MH-GoXOERV19iXd8em=W+_owmSJi6V5GsmeV=1sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
	<CAGHENPSX25MH-GoXOERV19iXd8em=W+_owmSJi6V5GsmeV=1sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3FBB0.80601@davea.name>

On 11/16/2011 12:55 PM, Michael Hunter wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Dave Angel<d at davea.name>  wrote:
>> On 11/16/2011 12:00 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>> [...] Processes [...] and the OS is generally better at scheduling them than it is at
>> scheduling threads within a single process.  If you have multiple cores, the
>> processes can really run simultaneously, frequently with very small
>> overhead.  [...]
>
> Maybe you are trying to simplify things but in a lot of cases this is
> just false.  In at least some operating systems these days a thread is
> the basic unit that is scheduled.  Processes are thread containers
> that provide other things (fds, separate address space, etc.).  The
> comment about multiple cores can be extended to multiple threads on a
> core (CMT) but applies to threads as well as processes.  Switching
> between processes tends to be heavier weight then switching between
> threads in a process because of the needs to change the address space.
>
> Just because Python sucks at threads doesn't make them heavier for the OS.
>
> That doesn't mean you shouldn't use multiprocessing.  The problem
> asked about seems a good fit to me to a single python process starting
> and managing a set of external converter processes.
>
>                Michael
>

No response is deserved.

-- 

DaveA


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov 16 13:30:39 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:30:39 -0500
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <4EC3FF56.7030101@davea.name>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>	<CAAdqOWFJftDH=9YaiHOk6mbqYGgLXK7zPEKcUhENqnzbFd2VNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3FF56.7030101@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4EC4014F.8080105@davea.name>

On 11/16/2011 01:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> (You're top-posting.  Put your remarks AFTER what you're quoting)
>
> On 11/16/2011 12:52 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>> Ok, I thought that processes would do the same job as threads. So 
>> would the
>> general rule be some thing like so:
>>
>> If I want another piece of work to run (theoretically) along side my 
>> main
>> script, and I want to share data between them, I should use a thread and
>> share data with the thread-safe queue.
>> If the work I want done can function and complete on its own, go for a
>> process.
>>
>> Would that be about right?
>>
>
> Yes, with all the caveats I mentioned before.  With some language 
> implementations, and with some operating systems, and on some 
> CPU-systems, the guidelines could be different.  They all trade off in 
> ways too complex to describe here.
>
> For example, if a thread is mostly doing I/O, it may be just as 
> efficient as a separate process, even if sharing data isn't an issue.
>
> And in some languages, sharing data between processes isn't all that 
> tough, either.
>
>
Well, you sent me a mail without including the list (just use 
Reply-All), and I tried to add the list in.  Unfortunately, I picked the 
wrong one, so i sent this to Tutor by mistake.  I'll try to fix that 
now, sorry.




-- 

DaveA



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Wed Nov 16 13:39:32 2011
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Frederic Rentsch)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:39:32 +0100
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
	<CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1321468772.2315.35.camel@hatchbox-one>

On Wed, 2011-11-16 at 09:09 -0800, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch
> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
> >
> >        try: (command)
> >        except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
> >
> > I may get something like:
> >
> >        (1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
> >
> > If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> > want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> > the name:
> >
> >        except: (handle)
> >
> > But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> > way and it's probably ridiculously simple.
> 
> except Exception, e: (or, in Py3, except Exception as e is prefereed).
> 
> Note that you should generally avoid bare except statements "except:"
> as that will catch everything, including KeyboardInterrupt and
> SystemExit which may not be desirable.
> 
> Even without saving the exception in the except statement, you can get
> the type, value, and traceback with the sys.exc_info command. See
> http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.exc_info
> 
> For example:
> 
> py>import sys
> py>try:
> py> raise RuntimeError
> py> except:
> py> print sys.exc_info()
> py>
> (<type 'exceptions.RuntimeError'>, RuntimeError(), <traceback object
> at 0x0000000002371588>)

Chris, Thanks very much! Great help!

Frederic




From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 16 13:47:45 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:47:45 +0100
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <1321468772.2315.35.camel@hatchbox-one>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
	<CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1321468772.2315.35.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <ja10gh$g30$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 16.11.2011 19:39, schrieb Frederic Rentsch:
>> py>import sys
>> py>try:
>> py> raise RuntimeError
>> py> except:
>> py> print sys.exc_info()
>> py>
>> (<type 'exceptions.RuntimeError'>, RuntimeError(), <traceback object
>> at 0x0000000002371588>)
> 
> Chris, Thanks very much! Great help!

How about using the excellent logging framework instead of rolling your
own stuff? It can print the traceback, too.

>>> import logging
>>> logging.basicConfig()
>>> log = logging.getLogger("mymodule")
>>> try:
...     raise ValueError("test")
... except Exception:
...     log.exception("some message")
...
ERROR:mymodule:some message
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ValueError: test

Christian



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Nov 16 15:21:16 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:21:16 +0000
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
	<CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC41B3C.6040606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 16/11/2011 17:09, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch
> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
>>
>>         try: (command)
>>         except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
>>
>> I may get something like:
>>
>>         (1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
>>
>> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
>> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
>> the name:
>>
>>         except: (handle)
>>
>> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
>> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.
>
> except Exception, e: (or, in Py3, except Exception as e is prefereed).
>
In Python 3, "except Exception as e" is not just preferred: it's the
only form.

> Note that you should generally avoid bare except statements "except:"
> as that will catch everything, including KeyboardInterrupt and
> SystemExit which may not be desirable.
>
[snip]

Very true.


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 15:42:52 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:42:52 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp=2ttqEJv-jYUMp9We78UHmm+2P51jw9C62mhX+k4zgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmp=2ttqEJv-jYUMp9We78UHmm+2P51jw9C62mhX+k4zgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3rkfzKkehzWqKG4hWJ_Y5EeHKsC4U2q33AAcfGPOOOXOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Apparently I could not do what I was wanting to (state=DISABLED is not a
> > valid option to Toplevel).  What I wanted to do was something similar to
> > what the dialogs were doing from tkMessageBox.
>
> Yes, that would be what you'd want. I wonder, though: Is Toplevel the
> right window class? There may be a better class for a subwindow.
> Again, I'm not familiar with Tkinter, but a quick google suggests that
> Frame or Window might be worth looking into. Ideally, you want the
> window to disable its parent and claim all events.
>

I think Toplevel is right.  Frame isn't actually a window (a window has to
be its parent), and I've never seen any documentation regarding a Window
class (perhaps it's just meant to be a base class that Toplevel inherits
from?).  I think a separate window needs to be a Toplevel instance (or
instance of a Toplevel-derived class).

Pulling on the tkMessageBox example again, their base Dialog class inherits
from Toplevel.  In any case, I've actually found that Tkinter is relatively
straightforward to learn, despite some of the bashing it's received here
(admittedly I've never tried PyGTK or wxpython or any of the other toolkits
because I want to keep dependencies within the stdlib as much as possible).

Thanks!
Jason
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From rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 15:48:37 2011
From: rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rafael_Dur=E1n_Casta=F1eda?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:48:37 +0100
Subject: redis beginner question
In-Reply-To: <CAOuJsM=gndD5jMkFGngX2EMhsebVYLgbZ5UCEUiBHptSPQrW7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuJsM=gndD5jMkFGngX2EMhsebVYLgbZ5UCEUiBHptSPQrW7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC421A5.4010601@gmail.com>

El 16/11/11 03:22, Jabba Laci escribi?:
> Hi,
>
> I'm reading the redis documentation and there is one thing that
> bothers me. For redis, you need to start a server on localhost. Is
> there an easy way that my Python script starts this server
> automatically? Before using my script, I don't want to start
> redis-server each time. When my program terminates, the server could
> be shut down automatically.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Laszlo
I think you are misunderstanding the docs, on ubuntu (or whatever you 
use) you can do apt-get install redis-server and you'll get what you want.

HTH


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 15:50:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:50:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <17096391.271.1321476625430.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

You can see an example on how to use multiprocessing.Pool at http://pythonwise.blogspot.com/2011/03/convert-oggs-to-mp3-fast-way.html

This is ogg -> mp3 but the same idea.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 16 16:09:18 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:09:18 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:

> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?

I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
<URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html> including editing
features, tab completion, history management, and a persistent history
file.

You can then use that functionality in your Python interactive startup
file. Here's mine:

=====
# $HOME/.pythonrc
# User configuration for interactive Python shell.

import sys
import os
import os.path
import atexit

# Tab completion with readline.
# Cribbed from <URL:http://docs.python.org/lib/module-rlcompleter.html>.
try:
    import readline
except ImportError:
    sys.stderr.write("Module readline not available.\n")
else:
    import rlcompleter

    # Enable tab completion.
    readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

    # Persistent command history.
    histfile = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], ".python_history") 
    try:
        readline.read_history_file(histfile)
    except IOError:
        # Existing history file can't be read.
        pass 
    atexit.register(readline.write_history_file, histfile)

    del histfile

del sys, os, atexit

=====

Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems. Yet another reason
why MS Windows is not a good choice for developing software I guess.

-- 
 \        ?The difference between religions and cults is determined by |
  `\                      how much real estate is owned.? ?Frank Zappa |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 16 16:18:14 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:18:14 -0500
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <ja19at$jra$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/16/2011 11:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch wrote:

> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> the name:
>
> 	except: (handle)
>
> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

Bare except is a holdover from when exceptions could be strings rather 
than an instance of a subclass of BaseException. A Python 3 interpreter 
in effect runs code within a try-except block something like this:

try:
     <your code>
except BaseException as __exception__:
     <print traceback and exit>

However, use Exception instead of BaseException in your code unless you 
REALLY know what you are doing and why.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 18:42:02 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:42:02 +0000
Subject: pymacs?
Message-ID: <4EC44A4A.70201@gmail.com>

After a long time, and since it was included iin python-mode, I wanted 
to try if I can
get ropemacs working finally.
I have tried many possible things, also in Emacs -Q, and I actually got 
it working
only once, apparently by pure luck with Emacs -Q:

(setq py-load-python-mode-pymacs-p nil)

(setq ca-pymacs-path (expand-file-name 
"~/Emacs-configuration/python-mode/pymacs"))
(add-to-list 'load-path ca-pymacs-path)
(setenv "PYMACS_PYTHON" "python2.7")
(require 'pymacs)

(pymacs-load "ropemacs" "rope-")
(setq ropemacs-confirm-saving 'nil)

The problem is that this configuration doesn't use python-mode.el but 
the standard python.el,
all my attempts to make this work on my normal configuration failed.
Did anyone got both correctly working?

Thanks..


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 18:46:30 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:46:30 -0500
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbwE1wi_=k82-9BEur3191K8XTXeczbLN_hTJPZtNmOfuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:
>
>> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
>> commands?
>
> I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
> linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
> <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html> including editing
> features, tab completion, history management, and a persistent history
> file.
>
> You can then use that functionality in your Python interactive startup
> file. Here's mine:
>
> =====
> # $HOME/.pythonrc
> # User configuration for interactive Python shell.
>
> import sys
> import os
> import os.path
> import atexit
>
> # Tab completion with readline.
> # Cribbed from <URL:http://docs.python.org/lib/module-rlcompleter.html>.
> try:
> ? ?import readline
> except ImportError:
> ? ?sys.stderr.write("Module readline not available.\n")
> else:
> ? ?import rlcompleter
>
> ? ?# Enable tab completion.
> ? ?readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>
> ? ?# Persistent command history.
> ? ?histfile = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], ".python_history")
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?readline.read_history_file(histfile)
> ? ?except IOError:
> ? ? ? ?# Existing history file can't be read.
> ? ? ? ?pass
> ? ?atexit.register(readline.write_history_file, histfile)
>
> ? ?del histfile
>
> del sys, os, atexit
>
> =====
>
> Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
> linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems. Yet another reason
> why MS Windows is not a good choice for developing software I guess.

 I'm not sure what documentation you're reading, but your code works fine on
 Windows.   Thanks.  [It is necessary to properly set PYTHONSTARTUP]


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 16 18:59:27 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:59:27 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2786.1321487193.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

David Robinow <drobinow at gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
> > linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
> > <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html>
[?]

> > Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
> > linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems.

>  I'm not sure what documentation you're reading

The same documentation I linked to above. Immediately below the title,
it specifies a limited set of platforms: ?Platforms: Unix? limiting the
availability of the described module.

> but your code works fine on Windows. Thanks.

I'm glad to know that. Perhaps you could investigate why, and suggest an
update to the above documentation if it's wrong? The bug tracker at
<URL:http://bugs.python.org/> would be the appropriate place for such a
suggestion.

-- 
 \        ?Intellectual property is to the 21st century what the slave |
  `\                              trade was to the 16th.? ?David Mertz |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 19:49:31 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:49:31 -0500
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2786.1321487193.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbxtM6K0SZhC63JVGV8N_+YpXQZCDH8GqmTxtMhNt=4BRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> David Robinow <drobinow at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> > I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
>> > linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
>> > <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html>
> [?]
>
>> > Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
>> > linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems.
>
>> ?I'm not sure what documentation you're reading
>
> The same documentation I linked to above. Immediately below the title,
> it specifies a limited set of platforms: ?Platforms: Unix? limiting the
> availability of the described module.
>
>> but your code works fine on Windows. Thanks.
>
> I'm glad to know that. Perhaps you could investigate why, and suggest an
> update to the above documentation if it's wrong? The bug tracker at
> <URL:http://bugs.python.org/> would be the appropriate place for such a
> suggestion.

Upon further investigation, it turns out that I'm using pyreadline
from http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyreadline. I'd forgotten I'd
installed it. No documentation fixes appear to be necessary.

"The pyreadline package is a python implementation of GNU readline
functionality it is based on the ctypes based UNC readline package by
Gary Bishop. It is not complete. It has been tested for use with
windows 2000 and windows xp."
  It appears to work in Vista also, at least for the purposes
discussed in this thread.


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Wed Nov 16 20:07:37 2011
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:07:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.11.17.01.07.36@tombstonezero.net>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:57:27 +0100, Frederic Rentsch wrote:

> I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
> 
> 	try: (command)
> 	except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
> 
> I may get something like:
> 
> 	(1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
> 
> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> the name:
> 
> 	except: (handle)
> 
> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

"except" catches any exception that inherits from its argument, and all 
MySQL exceptions inherit from MySQLError, so something like this will 
catch only MySQL exceptions and nothing else:

    try: (command)
    except MySQLdb.MySQLError as e:
        print(e)

Dan



From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 20:57:42 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:57:42 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
Message-ID: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>

I'm trying to use a custom version of mongoengine.  I cloned the git 
repo and put the directory on my PYTHONPATH, but python is still 
importing the system's installed version.  Looking at sys.path, it's 
obvious why:

$ echo $PYTHONPATH 
/home/roy/songza:/home/roy/lib/mongoengine

>>> pprint.pprint(sys.path)
['',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/selenium-2.0a5-py2.6.egg',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/unittest2-0.5.1-py2.6.egg',
 
'/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pymongo-1.9-py2.6-linux-x86_64.eg
g',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/virtualenv-1.5.2-py2.6.egg',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/mongoengine-0.5.2-py2.6.egg',
 '/home/roy/songza',
 '/home/roy/lib/mongoengine',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-tk',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/PIL',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10',
 '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gtk-2.0',
 '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages']

The system eggs come before my path.  I found 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2006-July/006520.html in 
the archives; it explains that eggs come before PYTHONPATH, but doesn't 
explain how to get around this problem.  I emphatically agree with 
Michael Bayer who said:

> I cant think of a  possible scenario where a path would explicitly
> exist in PYTHONPATH,  non-egg or egg, where the user would still like the
> system-wide installation to take precedence

So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead 
of the system egg?  I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on 
sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to 
contemplate.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 21:30:57 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:30:57 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
Message-ID: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>

When I run this (python 2.6.1):

class C:
    @staticmethod
    def foo():
        pass

    print "inside", foo, callable(foo)

print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)

I get:

inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False
outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True

I don't understand.  Why is foo not callable inside of the class 
definition?  Where this comes up is that I'm trying to use a callable 
default in mongoengine:

class User(Document):
    @staticmethod
    def _get_next_id():
      [blah, blah, blah]  
      return id

    user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

The way mongoengine works is if callable(default) is true, it calls 
default() to get the real value to use.  At the point where the 
IntField() call is made, _get_next_id is not callable, and eventually I 
end up with:

ValidationError: <staticmethod object at 0x2a3c1a0> could not be 
converted to int


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 21:44:00 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:44:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <e9f5814a-6f0d-4985-aebb-5b68b8c799c2@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 12:30?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> class C:
> ? ? @staticmethod
> ? ? def foo():
> ? ? ? ? pass
>
> ? ? print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> I don't understand. ?Why is foo not callable inside of the class
> definition?

Consider this:

	>>> def foo(): pass
	...
	>>> foo = staticmethod(foo)
	>>> callable(foo)
	False

A staticmethod by itself does not appear to be callable.

Your internal 'foo' is referring to the staticmethod wrapper. Your
external 'C.foo' refers to the result returned by the class
mechanism's __getattr__, which I'm guessing is munged into a callable
at that point.

Where this comes up is that I'm trying to use a callable
> default in mongoengine:
>
> class User(Document):
> ? ? @staticmethod
> ? ? def _get_next_id():
> ? ? ? [blah, blah, blah]
> ? ? ? return id
>
> ? ? user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

What you're effectively trying to do is use a class before it has been
constructed to help construct itself.

Just define it as a helper function before the class declaration.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 21:52:57 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:52:57 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<e9f5814a-6f0d-4985-aebb-5b68b8c799c2@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-8EE081.21525716112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<e9f5814a-6f0d-4985-aebb-5b68b8c799c2 at x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>,
 alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> What you're effectively trying to do is use a class before it has been
> constructed to help construct itself.
> 
> Just define it as a helper function before the class declaration.

Yes, this is the workaround I ended up with.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 22:04:23 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:04:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <3ed98382-5d03-4491-a24a-032f47f5ed5c@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 7:09?am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> You can then use that functionality in your Python interactive startup
> file. Here's mine:

Awesome, thank you for this. I use iPython where ever possible but
there are times where I just can't avoid the default shell and this
will help immensely.

Cheers!


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Nov 16 22:24:02 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:24:02 -0800
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4EC47E52.9080708@stoneleaf.us>

Roy Smith wrote:
> class User(Document):
>     @staticmethod
>     def _get_next_id():
>       [blah, blah, blah]  
>       return id
> 
>     user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

If you don't call '_get_next_id()' from any class methods (in other 
words, if you don't need to ever say 'self._gen_next_id()') then you can 
remove the '@staticmethod':

     def _get_next_id():
       [blah, blah, blah]
       return id

     user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

If you do need to sometimes call it from a method then still leave off 
the '@staticmethod', and give 'self' a default of 'None':

     def _get_next_id(self=None):
       [blah, blah, blah]
       return id

     user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

~Ethan~


From snorble at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 16 23:17:21 2011
From: snorble at hotmail.com (snorble)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:17:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
Message-ID: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
space, etc).

So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
downloads a Python file and runs it.

With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.

With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
server, and clients download it and run it.

Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
recommended? Thank you.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 16 23:43:24 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Nov 2011 04:43:24 GMT
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:30:57 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
> 
> class C:
>     @staticmethod
>     def foo():
>         pass
>     print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
> 
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
> 
> I get:
> 
> inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False 
> outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True
> 
> I don't understand.  Why is foo not callable inside of the class
> definition?


This has come up before.

http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/34396-static-method-object-not-callable

http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/462734-make-staticmethod-objects-callable


However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects 
callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:

http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.html

See also this thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html



-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 00:26:20 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:26:20 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-11A6C6.00262017112011@news.panix.com>

In article <4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> This has come up before.
> 
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/34396-static-method-object-not-callable
> 
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/462734-make-staticmethod-objects-callabl
> e
> 
> 
> However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects 
> callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:
> 
> http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.h
> tml
> 
> See also this thread:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html

Thanks for the links.  It always makes me feel good when I get tripped 
up by something complex and subtle.  It almost makes up for all the 
times when I feel like a dolt because I got tripped up by something 
obvious and elementary...


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 01:20:43 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:20:43 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJ4uojJ407btTuYdVm0r+Fu-nXXyMsntO1WU8Q=5shcXA@mail.gmail.com>

> However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects
> callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:
>
> http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.html
>
> See also this thread:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html

The notes didn't actually mention what was discussed, but re the
second thread, the issue was not changing staticmethod to be callable.
Making staticmethod callable is fine, but __get__ still has to return
the original function, not self.

The context of the second thread was that staticmethod was imagined as
one way to eliminate the difference between C and Python functions,
when added to a class. But this doesn't quite work, unless
staticmethod.__get__ returned self (which broke for related reasons).
If it returns the original function (as it does now) then the issue is
unresolved: C functions still behave differently from Python
functions, so you can't quite just hide them behind a staticmethod and
let everything remain the same. It doesn't eliminate the difference in
behavior in certain circumstances, e.g.:

    class MyClass:
        foo = staticmethod(foo)

    class MyOtherClass:
        foo = MyClass.foo

    MyOtherClass().foo() # what happens if foo is builtin vs pure-Python?

In the context of this thread, though, just making it callable without
modifying __get__ is fine. Or at least, I don't see the issue.

Devin

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:30:57 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
>
>> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
>>
>> class C:
>> ? ? @staticmethod
>> ? ? def foo():
>> ? ? ? ? pass
>> ? ? print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>>
>> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>>
>> I get:
>>
>> inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False
>> outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True
>>
>> I don't understand. ?Why is foo not callable inside of the class
>> definition?
>
>
> This has come up before.
>
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/34396-static-method-object-not-callable
>
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/462734-make-staticmethod-objects-callable
>
>
> However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects
> callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:
>
> http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.html
>
> See also this thread:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 01:44:23 2011
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:44:23 +0200
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 04:30, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
>
> class C:
> ? ?@staticmethod
> ? ?def foo():
> ? ? ? ?pass
>
> ? ?print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> I get:
>
> inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False
> outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True
>
> I don't understand. ?Why is foo not callable inside of the class
> definition? ?Where this comes up is that I'm trying to use a callable
> default in mongoengine:
>
> class User(Document):
> ? ?@staticmethod
> ? ?def _get_next_id():
> ? ? ?[blah, blah, blah]
> ? ? ?return id
>
> ? ?user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)
>
> The way mongoengine works is if callable(default) is true, it calls
> default() to get the real value to use. ?At the point where the
> IntField() call is made, _get_next_id is not callable, and eventually I
> end up with:
>
> ValidationError: <staticmethod object at 0x2a3c1a0> could not be
> converted to int

Try this (untested):

class C:
   @staticmethod
   def foo():
       pass

   print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)



-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


From anushritripathi at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 02:05:30 2011
From: anushritripathi at gmail.com (Anushree Tripathi)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:35:30 +0530
Subject: problem in running script file of modeller
Message-ID: <CAAx43Bw0NDi-A1cCbaDP1OnENhe-U4qPZ8AbojGzH+STY91zhQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I run  mod9.10  model-default.py command on command window.It is
showing that 'import site' failed;use -v for traceback and also error in
opening alignment.ali file.Now what do i have to change.Please reply me as
soon as possible.
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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 02:37:57 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:37:57 -0700
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Try this (untested):
>
> class C:
> ? @staticmethod
> ? def foo():
> ? ? ? pass
>
> ? print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)

If you had tested this, you would have found that you get a NameError,
since C is not yet bound inside the class block where you define it.


From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 02:38:04 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:38:04 +0000
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <4EC4014F.8080105@davea.name>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
	<CAAdqOWFJftDH=9YaiHOk6mbqYGgLXK7zPEKcUhENqnzbFd2VNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3FF56.7030101@davea.name> <4EC4014F.8080105@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWEdCp5SNTVt3HYS7dSA0-OtQ5Pb_1-B-Kwmhif5TjoaUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 11/16/2011 01:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> (You're top-posting.  Put your remarks AFTER what you're quoting)
>>
>> On 11/16/2011 12:52 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I thought that processes would do the same job as threads. So would
>>> the
>>> general rule be some thing like so:
>>>
>>> If I want another piece of work to run (theoretically) along side my main
>>> script, and I want to share data between them, I should use a thread and
>>> share data with the thread-safe queue.
>>> If the work I want done can function and complete on its own, go for a
>>> process.
>>>
>>> Would that be about right?
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, with all the caveats I mentioned before.  With some language
>> implementations, and with some operating systems, and on some CPU-systems,
>> the guidelines could be different.  They all trade off in ways too complex
>> to describe here.
>>
>> For example, if a thread is mostly doing I/O, it may be just as efficient
>> as a separate process, even if sharing data isn't an issue.
>>
>> And in some languages, sharing data between processes isn't all that
>> tough, either.
>>
>>
>>  Well, you sent me a mail without including the list (just use
> Reply-All), and I tried to add the list in.  Unfortunately, I picked the
> wrong one, so i sent this to Tutor by mistake.  I'll try to fix that now,
> sorry.


Apologies, I usually reply-all and don't usually top-post. Was just rushing
out the door when I responded last time.

Cheers,

Jack

-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From bastian.ballmann at notch-interactive.com  Thu Nov 17 03:36:59 2011
From: bastian.ballmann at notch-interactive.com (Bastian Ballmann)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:36:59 +0100
Subject: pymacs?
In-Reply-To: <4EC44A4A.70201@gmail.com>
References: <4EC44A4A.70201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC4C7AB.9050807@notch-interactive.com>

Hi,

why not try out emacs-for-python 
https://github.com/gabrielelanaro/emacs-for-python
It's has everything included one needs as a python programmer on emacs 
and even if it's not your choice you can lookup pymacs configuration there.
HTH && have a nice day

Basti


Am 17.11.2011 00:42, schrieb Andrea Crotti:
> After a long time, and since it was included iin python-mode, I wanted 
> to try if I can
> get ropemacs working finally.
> I have tried many possible things, also in Emacs -Q, and I actually 
> got it working
> only once, apparently by pure luck with Emacs -Q:
>
> (setq py-load-python-mode-pymacs-p nil)
>
> (setq ca-pymacs-path (expand-file-name 
> "~/Emacs-configuration/python-mode/pymacs"))
> (add-to-list 'load-path ca-pymacs-path)
> (setenv "PYMACS_PYTHON" "python2.7")
> (require 'pymacs)
>
> (pymacs-load "ropemacs" "rope-")
> (setq ropemacs-confirm-saving 'nil)
>
> The problem is that this configuration doesn't use python-mode.el but 
> the standard python.el,
> all my attempts to make this work on my normal configuration failed.
> Did anyone got both correctly working?
>
> Thanks..


-- 
Bastian Ballmann / Web Developer
Notch Interactive GmbH / Badenerstrasse 571 / 8048 Z?rich
Phone +41 43 818 20 91 / www.notch-interactive.com



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov 17 03:53:07 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:53:07 +0100
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
In-Reply-To: <roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <kkuep8-nqd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 16.11.2011 15:36, schrieb Roy Smith:
> It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately
> measure, things like CPU or network load.  There's so much stuff you
> can't even begin to see.  The state of your main memory cache.  Disk
> fragmentation.  What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs
> having to do a physical disk read.  How slow your DNS server is today.

Fortunately, I am in a position where I'm running tests on one system 
(generic desktop PC) while the system to test is another one, and there 
both hardware and software is under my control. Since this is rather 
smallish and embedded, the power and load of the desktop don't play a 
significant role, the other side is usually the bottleneck. ;)


> What I suggest is instrumenting your unit test suite to record not just
> the pas/fail status of every test, but also the test duration.  Stick
> these into a database as the tests run.  Over time, you will accumulate
> a whole lot of performance data, which you can then start to mine.

I'm not sure. I see unit tests as something that makes sure things run 
correctly. For performance testing, I have functions to set up and tear 
down the environment. Then, I found it useful to have separate code to 
prime a cache, which is something done before each test run, but which 
is not part of the test run itself. I'm repeating each test run N times, 
recording the times and calculating maximum, minimum, average and 
standard deviation. Some of this is similar to unit testing (code to set 
up/tear down), but other things are too different. Also, sometimes I can 
vary tests with a factor F, then I would also want to capture the 
influence of this factor. I would even wonder if you can't verify the 
behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow.

All of this is rather general, not specific to my use case, hence my 
question if there are existing frameworks to facilitate this task. Maybe 
it's time to create one...


> While you're running the tests, gather as much system performance data
> as you can (output of top, vmstat, etc) and stick that into your
> database too.  You never know when you'll want to refer to the data, so
> just collect it all and save it forever.

Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since 
there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they 
require a human to interpret them.


Cheers!

Uli



From john.37 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 04:06:03 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:06:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 16, 10:50?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> sword wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > main.py looks like this:
> > #main.py
> > import logging
> > from logging import Filter
> > import a
> > import b
>
> > logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > root = logging.getLogger()
> > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > would pass this filter
>
> > logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> > logger.debug("main process")
> > a.print_log()
> > b.print_log()
>
> > ####
> > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> $ cat demo.py
> import logging
> class Filter(logging.Filter):
> ? ? def filter(self, record):
> ? ? ? ? print "applying filter", self.name
> ? ? ? ? return True
>
> logging.basicConfig()
>
> loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> for logger in loggers:
> ? ? logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> [handler] = logging.getLogger().handlers
> handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))
>
> for logger in loggers:
> ? ? logger.critical("whatever")
> $ python demo.py
> applying filter filter at root
> applying filter filter at handler
> CRITICAL:root:whatever
> applying filter filter at a
> applying filter filter at handler
> CRITICAL:a:whatever
> applying filter fil... at a.b
> applying filter filter at handler
> CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> $
>
> As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> and of the handler(s) are applied.

Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
out only the interested info from it before.


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Nov 17 04:17:21 2011
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:17:21 +0100
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ja2jf7$bl7$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 17.11.2011 03:30 schrieb Roy Smith:
> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
>
> class C:
>      @staticmethod
>      def foo():
>          pass
>
>      print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> I get:
>
> inside<staticmethod object at 0x421df0>  False
> outside<function foo at 0x41e6f0>  True

Right. The reason is that on an attribute access, you get a __get__ call 
of the "real" attribute.

That is, if your class has a "regular" method, it is stored there as a 
formal function. But if you access it (C.f), you get 
C.__dict__["f"].__get__(None, C) (not sure about the arguments, but you 
should get the idea).

A functions __get__ returns a unbound or bound method, depending on its 
own arguments.

With a static method, you don't want this to happen. So you wrap your 
"regular" function into a staticmethod object, which has a __get__() 
method itself just returning the wrapped function object.

Look at this:

 >>> class C(object): pass
...
 >>> f=lambda *a:a
 >>> C.f=f
 >>> s=staticmethod(f)
 >>> C.s=s
 >>> # Now we test the access
...
 >>> f
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> s
<staticmethod object at 0x00B48A90>
 >>> C.f
<unbound method C.<lambda>>
 >>> C().f
<bound method C.<lambda> of <__main__.C object at 0x00B48810>>
 >>> C.s
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> C().s
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> f.__get__(None, C)
<unbound method C.<lambda>>
 >>> f.__get__(C(), C)
<bound method C.<lambda> of <__main__.C object at 0x00B48AD0>>
 >>> s.__get__(None, C)
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> s.__get__(C(), C)
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>


That's how things work.

If you want to get back the "real" function from a staticmethod, you 
either call its __get__ with an arbitrary argument, or you do it the 
clean way and do a

def deref(s):
     class C(object): s=s
     return s.s

and so do a

class User(Document):
      @staticmethod
      def _get_next_id():
        [blah, blah, blah]
        return id

      user_id = IntField(required=True, default=deref(_get_next_id))


HTH,


Thomas


From usenet at solar-empire.de  Thu Nov 17 04:48:17 2011
From: usenet at solar-empire.de (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:48:17 +0100
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to use a custom version of mongoengine.  I cloned the git 
> repo and put the directory on my PYTHONPATH, but python is still 
> importing the system's installed version.  Looking at sys.path, it's 
> obvious why:
> 
> $ echo $PYTHONPATH 
> /home/roy/songza:/home/roy/lib/mongoengine
> 
>>>> pprint.pprint(sys.path)
> ['',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/selenium-2.0a5-py2.6.egg',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/unittest2-0.5.1-py2.6.egg',
> 
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pymongo-1.9-py2.6-linux-x86_64.eg
> g',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/virtualenv-1.5.2-py2.6.egg',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/mongoengine-0.5.2-py2.6.egg',
> '/home/roy/songza',
> '/home/roy/lib/mongoengine',
[...]

> The system eggs come before my path.  I found 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2006-July/006520.html in 
> the archives; it explains that eggs come before PYTHONPATH, but doesn't 
> explain how to get around this problem.  I emphatically agree with 
> Michael Bayer who said:
> 
>> I cant think of a  possible scenario where a path would explicitly
>> exist in PYTHONPATH,  non-egg or egg, where the user would still like the
>> system-wide installation to take precedence
> 
> So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead 
> of the system egg?  I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on 
> sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to 
> contemplate.

The only way I found is to edit the easy_install.pth file and comment
the two lines starting with "import sys". You'll have to do that every
time you install/upgrade an egg via easy_install (and maybe setuptools).
In your case the right file should be
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/easy_install.pth

BTW: You could try pip (http://www.pip-installer.org/) instead of
easy_install, it doesn't mess with sys.path.

Ciao
Marc


From anushritripathi at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 04:51:33 2011
From: anushritripathi at gmail.com (Anushree Tripathi)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:21:33 +0530
Subject: problem in running script file (model-default.py)
Message-ID: <CAAx43Bw9bTT4vwdfAeLLdy6HPatcVYwsgS7vEhBjCyp_W1iviA@mail.gmail.com>

When I run script file(i.e.,model-default.py) on IDLE interface,I m
getting this error:
read_al_373E> Protein specified in ALIGN_CODES(i) was not found in the
alignment file; ALIGN_CODES(       1) =  2hyd
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Nov 17 05:12:09 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:12:09 -0800
Subject: problem in running script file (model-default.py)
In-Reply-To: <CAAx43Bw9bTT4vwdfAeLLdy6HPatcVYwsgS7vEhBjCyp_W1iviA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAx43Bw9bTT4vwdfAeLLdy6HPatcVYwsgS7vEhBjCyp_W1iviA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRXd6vDb8Qae1ryGpQ8LTO=_YOjtzrN7nkkU6FVbdQG2g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Anushree Tripathi
<anushritripathi at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I run script file(i.e.,model-default.py) on IDLE interface,I m
> getting?this error:
> read_al_373E> Protein specified in ALIGN_CODES(i) was not found in the
> alignment file; ALIGN_CODES(?????? 1) =? 2hyd

Such an error is entirely specific to the particular script you are
running (and/or possibly due to a lack of command-line arguments since
you're running it via IDLE).
Either consult the script's documentation or author, or post the
script here. We can't debug/troubleshoot code we don't have access to.

Regards,
Chris


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Thu Nov 17 05:39:33 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 05:39:33 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hi All,

I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
I am trying to implement a ProgressBar  for this installer. So that the user will come to know the progress of the installation.
I am using pypi progressbar module.
The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.

I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1() updates it to 5%,  func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the console.

My questions are:

1.       Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and powershell.?  As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and writing only in powershell.  !


2.       Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?



Thanks

Nikunj
Bangalore - India

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From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 06:13:38 2011
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:13:38 +0200
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDXFkOMoCSwToC5zVss_rjA5Jh9YWuPqYS-mjmE30WMhSZc4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 09:37, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try this (untested):
>>
>> class C:
>> ? @staticmethod
>> ? def foo():
>> ? ? ? pass
>>
>> ? print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> If you had tested this, you would have found that you get a NameError,
> since C is not yet bound inside the class block where you define it.
>

I hadn't tested, I'm at work far from Idle. Just shooting from the hip.

For that matter, though, this does work in Java (I'm pretty sure but
again, untested right now).

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 06:38:19 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:38:19 +1100
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <CAKDXFkOMoCSwToC5zVss_rjA5Jh9YWuPqYS-mjmE30WMhSZc4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKDXFkOMoCSwToC5zVss_rjA5Jh9YWuPqYS-mjmE30WMhSZc4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp5-i3HQsXZSd==CcCE9sYiE0ic7j77b=c+P74+d=ncWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm at work far from Idle.

Taken out of context, I'm sure your boss is pleased. :)

ChrisA


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 09:03:15 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:03:15 -0500
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
	<kkuep8-nqd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <roy-56C820.09031517112011@news.panix.com>

In article <kkuep8-nqd.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
 Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:

> Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since 
> there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they 
> require a human to interpret them.

As much as possible, you want to automate things so no human 
intervention is required.

For example, let's say you have a test which calls foo() and times how 
long it takes.  You've already mentioned that you run it N times and 
compute some basic (min, max, avg, sd) stats.  So far, so good.

The next step is to do some kind of regression against past results.  
Once you've got a bunch of historical data, it should be possible to 
look at today's numbers and detect any significant change in performance.

Much as I loathe the bureaucracy and religious fervor which has grown up 
around Six Sigma, it does have some good tools.  You might want to look 
into control charts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_chart).  You 
think you've got the test environment under control, do you?  Try 
plotting a month's worth of run times for a particular test on a control 
chart and see what it shows.

Assuming your process really is under control, I would write scripts 
that did the following kinds of analysis:

1) For a given test, do a linear regression of run time vs date.  If the 
line has any significant positive slope, you want to investigate why.

2) You already mentioned, "I would even wonder if you can't verify the 
behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow".  Of course you 
can.  Run your test a bunch of times with different input sizes.  I 
would try something like a 1-2-5 progression over several decades (i.e. 
input sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, etc)  You will have to 
figure out what an appropriate range is, and how to generate useful 
input sets.  Now, curve fit your performance numbers to various shape 
curves and see what correlation coefficient you get.

All that being said, in my experience, nothing beats plotting your data 
and looking at it.


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 09:09:34 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:09:34 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
Message-ID: <roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>

In article <1s1fp8-6la.ln1 at pluto.solar-empire.de>,
 Marc Christiansen <usenet at solar-empire.de> wrote:

> > So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead 
> > of the system egg?  I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on 
> > sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to 
> > contemplate.
> 
> The only way I found is to edit the easy_install.pth file and comment
> the two lines starting with "import sys". You'll have to do that every
> time you install/upgrade an egg via easy_install (and maybe setuptools).
> In your case the right file should be
> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/easy_install.pth
> 
> BTW: You could try pip (http://www.pip-installer.org/) instead of
> easy_install, it doesn't mess with sys.path.

But, you're talking about installers.  I'm talking about if I've already 
got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to 
pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one?

In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
load first.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov 17 10:04:49 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 17 Nov 2011 15:04:49 GMT
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9FA0995C66F1Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> load first.
> 

Have you considered running your code in a virtualenv?
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From candide at free.invalid  Thu Nov 17 10:48:04 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:48:04 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ec52cb7$0$16583$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks to all




Le 12/11/2011 13:27, Chris Angelico a ?crit :
 > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM, candide<candide at free.invalid>  wrote:
 >> import foo as f
 >>
 >> equivalent to
 >>
 >> import foo
 >> f = foo
 >>
 >
 > Not quite, it's closer to:
 >
 > import foo
 > f = foo
 > del foo
 >



Le 12/11/2011 13:43, Tim Chase a ?crit :
 > On 11/12/11 05:56, candide wrote:
 >> First, could you confirm the following syntax
 >>
 >> import foo as f
 >>
 >> equivalent to
 >>
 >> import foo
 >> f = foo
 >
 > and the issuing "del foo"
 >




Correct, I missed this point : I didn't realize that importing is also 
binding.


From candide at free.invalid  Thu Nov 17 10:48:32 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:48:32 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2669.1321100968.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2669.1321100968.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec52cd3$0$16583$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Le 12/11/2011 13:29, Arnaud Delobelle a ?crit :

>> -- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math attribute
>> to be private but I don't figure out why this matters.
>
> This way math doesn't get bound in the global namespace when doing
> "from module import *"
>


To contextualize more, I guess you are referring to the following 
situation :



# a.py
import math as _math


# b.py
from a import *

print _math.sin(0)       # raise a NameError
print math.sin(0)        # raise a NameError



so the as syntax is also seful for hiding name, isn'it ?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 11:55:36 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
Message-ID: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>

Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I 
uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py 
file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing 
with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same 
results.

If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to 
Edit with IDLE.

My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.

Comments?


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Thu Nov 17 12:05:17 2011
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:05:17 +0000
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:


> But, you're talking about installers.  I'm talking about if I've already 
> got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to 
> pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one?
>
> In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> load first.

Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about
with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to
work... is there a situation in which it doesn't?



From spartan.the at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 12:37:30 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <c41ec96b-f12f-4b34-b416-57e94fead5e8@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On 17 Nov, 18:55, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> results.
>
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> Edit with IDLE.
>
> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> Comments?

I prefer "fail fast" approach too.

If right-click not working on Win7 is your reason to say good bye to
Python then better you do so.


From ray040123 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 12:37:49 2011
From: ray040123 at gmail.com (ray)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:37:49 +0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC5466D.8000000@gmail.com>

On Friday, November 18, 2011 12:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago 
> I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py 
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing 
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. 
> Same results.
>
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference 
> to Edit with IDLE.
>
> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> Comments?
Why not good-bye Windows ? Actually you may want to try Vim, or gVim in 
Windows. I think the people who use IDLE is with really good patient.


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 12:39:56 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:39:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I 
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py 
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing 
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same 
> results.

I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
"python not functioning".

> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to 
> Edit with IDLE.

> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.

It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
Win 7.

Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From therve at free.fr  Thu Nov 17 13:02:17 2011
From: therve at free.fr (=?UTF-8?B?VGhvbWFzIEhlcnbDqQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:02:17 +0100
Subject: Twisted 11.1.0 Released
Message-ID: <4EC54C29.80300@free.fr>

On behalf of Twisted Matrix Laboratories, I am pleased to announce the
release of Twisted 11.1.

Highlights of the 185 tickets closed include:

  * The poll reactor as default where applicable, instead of select
    everywhere.

  * A new SSL implementation only relying on OpenSSL for cryptography,
    (not I/O) making it more robust.

  * Several improvements to the fresh HTTP/1.1 client implementation,
    including proxy and cookie support.

  * My personal favorite: a new howto has been published on test-driven
    development with Twisted.

  * A special mention to the new abortConnection support on TCP and SSL
    connections, heroically pushed by Itamar and Jean-Paul, and the
    oldest ticket closed by this release.

This is the last release supporting Python 2.4 (the support on Windows stopped with 11.0).

For more information, see the NEWS file here:

  http://twistedmatrix.com/Releases/Twisted/11.1/NEWS.txt

Download it now from:

  http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.tar.bz2 or
  http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.5/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.5.msi or
  http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.6/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.6.msi or
  http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.7/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.7.msi

Thanks to the supporters of the Twisted Software Foundation and to the many contributors for this release.

-- 
Thomas



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 17 13:42:36 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Nov 2011 18:42:36 GMT
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec5559c$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> results.

I find I get better results when I stop "playing with matters" and start 
treating them seriously :)

If you need help fixing the file associations on your Windows 7 machine, 
you'll probably get better advice on a dedicated Windows forum. Or even 
by googling for instructions:

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=how%20to%20fix%20windows%207%20file%20associations

 
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> Edit with IDLE.

So you're saying that Python is working on one laptop, but not on another 
machine?

Okay. Great. What's your point? You have a messed up installation on your 
Windows 7 box, and a working installation on your laptop. What would you 
like us to do? Commiserate? Laugh? Look into a crystal ball and tell you 
what you did wrong?

Can you run Python from the command line? If so, that tells you that 
Python is installed and working correctly. If Python is installed, then 
it sounds like a matter of getting the file associates fixed in the 
registry. Good luck.


> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
> 
> Comments?

Why not good-bye Windows 7?

This being Windows, have you run a virus scan with up to date 
definitions? Then run a *second* scan, using a completely different 
scanner, because no scanner can catch all viruses? And then run a good 
anti-spyware program. All of which will be irrelevant 99 times out of 
100, but you could be the 1% ...



-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 15:22:03 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:22:03 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ja3qdg$n3m$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>
> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
> "python not functioning".
>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
> Win 7.
>
> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>
Not successfully. I tried it and pointed to idle.pyw. It gave a Invalid 
Win32 app.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 15:31:28 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:31:28 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>
> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
> "python not functioning".
Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a 
simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. 
Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.

>
> It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
> Win 7.
I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then 
stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE 
sense.

Who really knows?

>
> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>
Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get 
there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 15:43:05 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:43:05 +1100
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHv_KcwqeuiMHjWHd=Q+-FDMC4W4qpZPeyywd2YicW-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:31 AM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> I installed it [Windows 7] about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then stopped
> using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense.
>

Microsoft have broken things in many Windowses, and it's often hard to
figure out whether the fault is with the Windows version or with the
application. MS several times went to ridiculous effort to try to
ensure that broken programs that ran under version X would still run
under version Y, to the extent of being bug-for-bug compatible.

If you're having issues, grab a spare computer, throw Linux on it (I
recommend Ubuntu or Debian, others will have other preferred distros),
and see if the issues remain. Or if you're having trouble with the
GUI, try things from the command line (Windows's command interpreter
is pretty weak compared to bash, but it's plenty powerful enough).

ChrisA


From tycho at tycho.ws  Thu Nov 17 15:45:56 2011
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:45:56 -0600
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
In-Reply-To: <roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20111117204556.GD16669@velveeta.cs.wisc.edu>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 09:36:40AM -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <95bcp8-bft.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
>  Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain 
> > performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found 
> > that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are 
> > much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU 
> > load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc.
> > 
> > What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools 
> > available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, 
> > but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret 
> > programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions?
> 
> It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately 
> measure, things like CPU or network load.  There's so much stuff you 
> can't even begin to see.  The state of your main memory cache.  Disk 
> fragmentation.  What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs 
> having to do a physical disk read.  How slow your DNS server is today.

While I agree there's a lot of things you can't control for, you can
get a more accurate picture by using CPU time instead of wall time
(e.g. the clock() system call). If what you care about is mostly CPU
time, you can control for the "your disk is fragmented", "your DNS
server died", or "my cow-orker was banging on the test machine" this
way.

\t


From spartan.the at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 15:46:38 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 10:31?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:> In<ja3eae$r... at dont-email.me> ?"W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com> ?writes:
>
> >> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> >> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> >> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> >> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> >> results.
>
> > I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
> > "python not functioning".
>
> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>
> >> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> >> Edit with IDLE.
>
> >> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.
>
>
>
> > It was working originally, right? ?So the problem can't really just be
> > Win 7.
>
> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
> sense.
>
> Who really knows?
>
>
>
> > Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>
> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."

idle.pyw is not executable in Windows, but you can right-click it,
open, browse to pythonw.exe. Then it should work.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Nov 17 15:59:33 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:59:33 +0000
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC575B5.2070504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 17/11/2011 20:31, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>
>> writes:
>>
>>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>>> results.
>>
>> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
>> "python not functioning".
> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>>
>>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
>>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.
>
>>
>> It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be
>> Win 7.
> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
> sense.
>
> Who really knows?
>
>>
>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>
> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."

Are you trying to associate .pyw with idle.pyw instead of with
pythonw.exe?


From spartan.the at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 16:28:56 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
	<kkuep8-nqd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-56C820.09031517112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fa20036c-aeda-4306-90cb-d30283f10fb9@k10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 4:03?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <kkuep8-nqd.... at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
> ?Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckha... at dominolaser.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since
> > there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they
> > require a human to interpret them.
>
> As much as possible, you want to automate things so no human
> intervention is required.
>
> For example, let's say you have a test which calls foo() and times how
> long it takes. ?You've already mentioned that you run it N times and
> compute some basic (min, max, avg, sd) stats. ?So far, so good.
>
> The next step is to do some kind of regression against past results.
> Once you've got a bunch of historical data, it should be possible to
> look at today's numbers and detect any significant change in performance.
>
> Much as I loathe the bureaucracy and religious fervor which has grown up
> around Six Sigma, it does have some good tools. ?You might want to look
> into control charts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_chart). ?You
> think you've got the test environment under control, do you? ?Try
> plotting a month's worth of run times for a particular test on a control
> chart and see what it shows.
>
> Assuming your process really is under control, I would write scripts
> that did the following kinds of analysis:
>
> 1) For a given test, do a linear regression of run time vs date. ?If the
> line has any significant positive slope, you want to investigate why.
>
> 2) You already mentioned, "I would even wonder if you can't verify the
> behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow". ?Of course you
> can. ?Run your test a bunch of times with different input sizes. ?I
> would try something like a 1-2-5 progression over several decades (i.e.
> input sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, etc) ?You will have to
> figure out what an appropriate range is, and how to generate useful
> input sets. ?Now, curve fit your performance numbers to various shape
> curves and see what correlation coefficient you get.
>
> All that being said, in my experience, nothing beats plotting your data
> and looking at it.

I strongly agree with Roy, here.

Ulrich, I recommend you to explore how google measures appengine's
health here: http://code.google.com/status/appengine.

Unit tests are inappropriate here; any single unit test can answer
PASS or FAIL, YES or NO. It can't answer the question "how much".
Unless you just want to use unit tests. Then any arguments here just
don't make sense.

I suggest:

1. Decide what you want to measure. Measure result must be a number in
range (0..100, -5..5), so you can plot them.
2. Write no-UI programs to get each number (measure) and write it to
CSV. Run each of them several times take away 1 worst and 1 best
result, and take and average number.
3. Collect the data for some period of time.
4. Plot those average number over time axis (it's easy with CSV
format).
5. Make sure you automate this process (batch files or so) so the plot
is generated automatically each hour or each day.

And then after a month you can decide if you want to divide your
number ranges into green-yellow-red zones. More often than not you may
find that your measures are so inaccurate and random that you can't
trust them. Then you'll either forget that or dive into math
(statistics). You have about 5% chances to succeed ;)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 17 17:12:44 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:12:44 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja40t3$9o6$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/17/2011 11:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> results.
>
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> Edit with IDLE.
>
> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.

I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine. 
However, I almost never use that with Explorer to open files. I have 
IDLE pinned to the task bar so it is one click to start. If I edit a 
file, I want to run it, so I want a shell window open anyway. I usually 
open files to edit with the first three entries under the File menu: New 
File, Open, or Recent Files. Once I open a file in a particular 
directory (usually with Recent Files), Open initially looks for files in 
the same directory, which is usually what I want. So say hello again to 
Python, especially Python 3.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From irmen at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net  Thu Nov 17 17:31:50 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:31:50 +0100
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
In-Reply-To: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ec58b51$0$6842$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote:
> I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
> office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
> workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
> space, etc).
>
> So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
> downloads a Python file and runs it.
>
> With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
> update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
> when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
> hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
> computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
> It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
> the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
> function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
> like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
> report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.
>
> With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
> functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
> server, and clients download it and run it.
>
> Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
> recommended? Thank you.


The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about 
transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this 
if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff, 
things are not so grim.

Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame:

http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/
http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html

Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of 
transferring code to the 'other side'.

Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on 
your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered 
methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute 
code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have 
each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff 
itself. Many ways to skin a cat.

Regards,
Irmen de Jong



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 18:54:39 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:54:39 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja46s5$9qh$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 12:46 PM, spartan.the wrote:
> On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:>  In<ja3eae$r... at dont-email.me>    "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>    writes:
>>
>>>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>>>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>>>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>>>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>>>> results.
>>
>>> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
>>> "python not functioning".
>>
>> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>>
>>>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>>>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
>>>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>>
>> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
>> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
>> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.
>>
>>
>>
>>> It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
>>> Win 7.
>>
>> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
>> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
>> sense.
>>
>> Who really knows?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>
>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>
> idle.pyw is not executable in Windows, but you can right-click it,
> open, browse to pythonw.exe. Then it should work.

right-click on junk.py gives me a menu. I select Open with, and ... 
hmmm, whoops, in the latest install, 2.7.2, I did not give it access to 
idle.pyw.

My mistake above. I was talking about the previous 2.5.2 of install in 
Win7. Where I'm at is 2.7.2 now. However, I still find in very odd there 
is no Edit with IDLE when I right-click on junk.py. That's the way it 
worked on 2.5.2 on my XP and earlier, 2010, on Win7. Downright frustrating.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 19:00:31 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:00:31 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2811.1321563560.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2811.1321563560.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja4776$bt2$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 12:59 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 17/11/2011 20:31, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>>> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>>>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>>>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>>>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>>>> results.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
>>> "python not functioning".
>> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>>>
>>>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>>>> Edit with IDLE.
>>>
>>>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
>> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
>> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just
>> fine.
>>
>>>
>>> It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be
>>> Win 7.
>> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
>> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
>> sense.
>>
>> Who really knows?
>>
>>>
>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>
>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>
> Are you trying to associate .pyw with idle.pyw instead of with
> pythonw.exe?
What does pythonw.exe do for me? I would think all associations would be 
correct after an install.

The single thing I do not understand is why in my latest install of 
2.5.2 and 2.7.2 (2.5.2 was uninstalled before going to 2.7.2) on Win7 
that why a right-click on a py file does not show as a choice is "Edit 
with IDLE", as it does on my XP PC and my 2010 install of 2.5.2 on this 
Win 7 PC. To me that signals that something is wrong.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 19:03:14 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 2:12 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 11:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine.
> However, I almost never use that with Explorer to open files. I have
> IDLE pinned to the task bar so it is one click to start. If I edit a
> file, I want to run it, so I want a shell window open anyway. I usually
> open files to edit with the first three entries under the File menu: New
> File, Open, or Recent Files. Once I open a file in a particular
> directory (usually with Recent Files), Open initially looks for files in
> the same directory, which is usually what I want. So say hello again to
> Python, especially Python 3.
>
I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the 
right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails 
with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 17 19:24:47 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 00:24:47 GMT
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.

If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw, 
does it work?

Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see 
what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.




-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 20:36:38 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:36:38 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
Message-ID: <roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>

In article <874ny2fzn6.fsf at no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>,
 Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> 
> 
> > But, you're talking about installers.  I'm talking about if I've already 
> > got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to 
> > pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one?
> >
> > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> > if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> > load first.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about
> with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to
> work... is there a situation in which it doesn't?

What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you 
don't have access to?

It just seems mind-boggling to me that PYTHONPATH doesn't preempt 
everything else.


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 20:38:30 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:38:30 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<Xns9FA0995C66F1Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <roy-76B17E.20383017112011@news.panix.com>

In article <Xns9FA0995C66F1Fduncanbooth at 127.0.0.1>,
 Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> 
> > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> > if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> > load first.
> > 
> 
> Have you considered running your code in a virtualenv?
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv

I do that for some projects.  In fact, I suspect I will do that for all 
furture projects that I start from scratch.  For this particular one, 
there's a lot of stuff already installed in the system that I need.


From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 20:55:56 2011
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:55:56 +0000
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja46s5$9qh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<ja46s5$9qh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja4dvf$lar$1@dont-email.me>

On 17/11/2011 23:54, W. eWatson wrote:
<cut>
> My mistake above. I was talking about the previous 2.5.2 of install in
> Win7. Where I'm at is 2.7.2 now. However, I still find in very odd there
> is no Edit with IDLE when I right-click on junk.py. That's the way it
> worked on 2.5.2 on my XP and earlier, 2010, on Win7. Downright frustrating.
>

Well if I was still a windows administrator and you would be one of my 
users, I would first make sure that your profile or windows installation 
is not pooped as it definitively smells like that.

After being reassured that this is not the case I would then search the 
interwebs for something like "extending right click context menu".

Probably hitting something like this:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-desktop/how-can-i-customize-right-click-mouse-context-menu/5ea7104f-2213-41b9-9933-83f25da086d1

And after that searching where this 'idle' you speak of is actually 
located, probably finding something like this:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/118260/how-to-start-idle-python-editor-without-using-the-shortcut-on-windows-vista

Then it rest me to combine them both, after promising myself not to 
install one version of a particular program 'for all users' and then 
'updating' for 'only me' as this can screw up the default settings quite 
badly.

But hey I haven't been a win admin since I switched over to FreeBSD 
years and years ago. I find it immensely reassuring that the problems I 
encounter on my systems are all my fault, well actually that is just the 
same as with windows, just less obvious there.

Luckily I am no longer an administrator either as I couldn't stand it 
anymore when users spill their frustrations, although perfectly 
understandable, unto those who are actually willing to help.

Something to do with attitude or so, speaking if which, I do apologize 
for my own attitude, but given the choice of just ignoring you or lacing 
my post with patronization I though that the latter one was the least 
bad of them two.

-- 
mph


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 21:00:00 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:00:00 -0500
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.2810.1321562763.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-5F44F7.21000017112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2810.1321562763.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Tycho Andersen <tycho at tycho.ws> wrote:

> While I agree there's a lot of things you can't control for, you can
> get a more accurate picture by using CPU time instead of wall time
> (e.g. the clock() system call). If what you care about is mostly CPU
> time [...]

That's a big if.  In some cases, CPU time is important, but more often, 
wall-clock time is more critical.  Let's say I've got two versions of a 
program.  Here's some results for my test run:

Version     CPU Time     Wall-Clock Time
   1         2 hours       2.5 hours
   2         1.5 hours     5.0 hours

Between versions, I reduced the CPU time to complete the given task, but 
increased the wall clock time.  Perhaps I doubled the size of some hash 
table.  Now I get a lot fewer hash collisions (so I spend less CPU time 
re-hashing), but my memory usage went up so I'm paging a lot and my 
locality of reference went down so my main memory cache hit rate is 
worse.

Which is better?  I think most people would say version 1 is better.

CPU time is only important in a situation where the system is CPU bound.  
In many real-life cases, that's not at all true.  Things can be memory 
bound.  Or I/O bound (which, when you consider paging, is often the same 
thing as memory bound).  Or lock-contention bound.

Before you starting measuring things, it's usually a good idea to know 
what you want to measure, and why :-)


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Thu Nov 17 21:18:11 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
Message-ID: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

Hi folks,

I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process.  From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways.  Other times, I'll just want to let it run.  So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:

def _pass(*args):
    pass

def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
    result1 = do_stuff()
    report(result1)
    result2 = do_some_different_stuff()
    report(result2)
    result3 = do_even_more_stuff()
    report(result3)
    return result3

This does what I want.  When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs.  Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI.

But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass.

This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass?  I played with the interpreter a bit.

IDLE 2.6.6      ==== No Subprocess ====
>>> pass
>>> pass()
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> type(pass)
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object.  Is it nothing more than a key word?

And would there be any merit to having some syntactic sugar which allows pass to behave like the _pass() function I wrote, if it were called?

As you can see, I'm programming in Python 2.6.  I don't know whether pass is handled differently in Python 3.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:31:04 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:31:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.2790.1321501935.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ed48a730-2d39-4e71-a175-deda7578f8a8@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 1:24?pm, Ethan Furman <et... at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> If you do need to sometimes call it from a method then still leave off
> the '@staticmethod', and give 'self' a default of 'None':
>
> ? ? ?def _get_next_id(self=None):
> ? ? ? ?[blah, blah, blah]
> ? ? ? ?return id
>
> ? ? ?user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

And if the OP needs it to be a staticmethod as well, he can just wrap
the nested function:

      gen_next_id = staticmethod(_gen_next_id)

I think I like this approach best. I'm annoyed that I forgot functions
declared in a class scope were callable within the definition :)



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:38:47 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:38:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2669.1321100968.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec52cd3$0$16583$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1772de52-5ce0-4cb0-ac3c-e43aa2d17cf6@a5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 1:48?am, candide <cand... at free.invalid> wrote:
> # a.py
> import math as _math
>
> # b.py
> from a import *
>
> print _math.sin(0) ? ? ? # raise a NameError
> print math.sin(0) ? ? ? ?# raise a NameError
>
> so the as syntax is also seful for hiding name, isn'it ?

Not exactly. It's the * import mechanism here that's ignoring any
bindings that begin with an underscore. If you had:

   _dummy = 1

...inside of a.py, it wouldn't be pulled in either. As you state
later, 'as' is purely a binding convenience.

Incidentally, you can still allow * import to bring in underscore-
prefixed bindings by adding them to an __all__:

    __all__ = ['_dummy']


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Nov 17 21:45:58 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:45:58 -0800
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRREhvpgv18QqxFjeE438LyLhO6cdzipFL+aVdVGLiKy8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:18 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process. ?From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways. ?Other times, I'll just want to let it run. ?So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:
>
> def _pass(*args):
> ? ?pass
>
> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
> ? ?result1 = do_stuff()
> ? ?report(result1)
> ? ?result2 = do_some_different_stuff()
> ? ?report(result2)
> ? ?result3 = do_even_more_stuff()
> ? ?report(result3)
> ? ?return result3
>
> This does what I want. ?When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs. ?Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI.
>
> But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass.

Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
all you ever call report() with in your example.

> This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass? ?I played with the interpreter a bit.
>
> IDLE 2.6.6 ? ? ?==== No Subprocess ====
>>>> pass
>>>> pass()
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>> type(pass)
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. ?Is it nothing more than a key word?

Correct:
http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#pass
http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords

Cheers,
Chris


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:58:46 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:58:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c13d5fb5-9a2d-420a-b5e6-6100dc8b0fbb@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 11:36?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you
> don't have access to?

No import will happen until you import something. As long as you
change sys.path before you do, all subsequent imports will use that
path.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:59:13 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:59:13 +1100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqjs0ryLrAavfxs3B_BOZLcnT2uLkDHMTaDddebv-zCTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
> def _pass(*args):
> ? ?pass
>
> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
>

For some compactness at the expense of brevity, you could use a lambda:

def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = lambda msg: None):

Other than that, I think it's fine. (Actually, the lambda has a slight
advantage in self-documentation; in the main function's definition it
specifies that the 'report' argument is a function that takes one
argument, the message. (Or whatever that argument is. Name it
appropriately.)

If you call your dummy function something else, it may help
readability/self-documentation too. On the other hand, it may not.
YMMV.

ChrisA


From dbinks at codeaurora.org  Thu Nov 17 22:01:01 2011
From: dbinks at codeaurora.org (Dominic Binks)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:01:01 -0800
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRREhvpgv18QqxFjeE438LyLhO6cdzipFL+aVdVGLiKy8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<CAMZYqRREhvpgv18QqxFjeE438LyLhO6cdzipFL+aVdVGLiKy8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC5CA6D.3060100@codeaurora.org>

On 11/17/2011 6:45 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:18 PM, John Ladasky<ladasky at my-deja.com>  wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process.  From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways.  Other times, I'll just want to let it run.  So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:
>>
>> def _pass(*args):
>>     pass
>>
>> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
>>     result1 = do_stuff()
>>     report(result1)
>>     result2 = do_some_different_stuff()
>>     report(result2)
>>     result3 = do_even_more_stuff()
>>     report(result3)
>>     return result3
>>
>> This does what I want.  When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs.  Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI.
>>
>> But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass.
>
> Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
> might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
> all you ever call report() with in your example.
>
>> This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass?  I played with the interpreter a bit.
>>
>> IDLE 2.6.6      ==== No Subprocess ====
>>>>> pass
>>>>> pass()
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>>> type(pass)
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object.  Is it nothing more than a key word?
>
It is a keyword that can appear in a position where a statement is 
required by the grammar but there is nothing to do.  For example if .. 
then .. else .. where nothing happens in the else condition is effectively:

   if <condition>:
  	<then-part>
   else:
	pass

Bourne shell has a similar construct with the colon statement :

Another python example is where you need to catch an exception (or all 
exceptions but don't actually care about what they are)

   try:
      <european swallows>
   except:
      pass

> Correct:
> http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#pass
> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords
>
> Cheers,
> Chris


-- 
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 22:04:18 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:04:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 2:55?am, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Comments?

Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I
find the latter integrates better with Windows.

Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows?


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Nov 17 22:45:35 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:45:35 +1100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <87pqgq6qlc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> writes:

> So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. Is it
> nothing more than a key word?

Yes. Unlike some languages where the program is a collection of
expressions, a Python program is a series of statements which themselves
may or may not be expressions.

<URL:http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html>

-- 
 \      ?I tell you the truth: some standing here will not taste death |
  `\    before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.? ?Jesus, |
_o__)                             c. 30 CE, as quoted in Matthew 16:28 |
Ben Finney


From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 17 22:59:17 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:59:17 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC5D815.3090800@davea.name>

On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>
> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get 
> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."

You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is 
useless.  It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or 
.bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message)   So 
why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?



-- 

DaveA



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 23:21:18 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:21:18 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>
>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>
> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is
> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or
> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So
> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?
>
>
>
Because some  people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It 
leads to an error message.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 23:33:40 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:33:40 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>
> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
> does it work?
>
> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see
> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>
Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so long 
under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My Computer Tools?



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 23:34:31 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:34:31 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 7:04 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2:55 am, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Comments?
>
> Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I
> find the latter integrates better with Windows.
>
> Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows?
64-bit and plain old python msi installer.


From snorble at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 17 23:49:16 2011
From: snorble at hotmail.com (snorble)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:49:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
References: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4ec58b51$0$6842$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1ba9dc95-9347-4a5a-a705-774d31166a08@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 4:31?pm, Irmen de Jong <ir... at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net> wrote:
> On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
> > office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
> > workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
> > space, etc).
>
> > So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
> > downloads a Python file and runs it.
>
> > With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
> > update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
> > when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
> > hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
> > computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
> > It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
> > the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
> > function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
> > like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
> > report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.
>
> > With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
> > functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
> > server, and clients download it and run it.
>
> > Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
> > recommended? Thank you.
>
> The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about
> transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this
> if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff,
> things are not so grim.
>
> Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame:
>
> http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html
>
> Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of
> transferring code to the 'other side'.
>
> Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on
> your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered
> methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute
> code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have
> each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff
> itself. Many ways to skin a cat.
>
> Regards,
> Irmen de Jong

I'm thinking maybe the client service will have a small number of
generic features, such as reading WMI and SNMP values. That way the
server still dictates the work to be done (i.e. XMLRPC returns which
WMI/SNMP values to query), and the client remains relatively focused
and straightforward.


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 23:53:07 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:53:07 +1100
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
In-Reply-To: <1ba9dc95-9347-4a5a-a705-774d31166a08@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4ec58b51$0$6842$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<1ba9dc95-9347-4a5a-a705-774d31166a08@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGevrU4AdcO0TKufwh9zVWU3E3oCJb0NvNoqcmduoFSp_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe take a look outside python:

- Puppet

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:49 PM, snorble <snorble at hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 4:31?pm, Irmen de Jong <ir... at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net> wrote:
>> On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
>> > office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
>> > workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
>> > space, etc).
>>
>> > So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
>> > downloads a Python file and runs it.
>>
>> > With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
>> > update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
>> > when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
>> > hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
>> > computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
>> > It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
>> > the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
>> > function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
>> > like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
>> > report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.
>>
>> > With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
>> > functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
>> > server, and clients download it and run it.
>>
>> > Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
>> > recommended? Thank you.
>>
>> The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about
>> transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this
>> if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff,
>> things are not so grim.
>>
>> Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame:
>>
>> http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html
>>
>> Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of
>> transferring code to the 'other side'.
>>
>> Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on
>> your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered
>> methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute
>> code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have
>> each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff
>> itself. Many ways to skin a cat.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Irmen de Jong
>
> I'm thinking maybe the client service will have a small number of
> generic features, such as reading WMI and SNMP values. That way the
> server still dictates the work to be done (i.e. XMLRPC returns which
> WMI/SNMP values to query), and the client remains relatively focused
> and straightforward.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:03:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <19287522.9.1321592603810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfb5>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:45:58 PM UTC-8, Chris Rebert wrote:

> Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
> might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
> all you ever call report() with in your example.

Oops, I over-simplified the calls to my report() function.  The truth is that report() can accept a variable argument list too.


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:03:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <19287522.9.1321592603810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfb5>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:45:58 PM UTC-8, Chris Rebert wrote:

> Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
> might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
> all you ever call report() with in your example.

Oops, I over-simplified the calls to my report() function.  The truth is that report() can accept a variable argument list too.


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:07:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:34:22 PM UTC-8, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky
> <lad... at my-deja.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> > def _pass(*args):
> >     pass
> >
> 	This is the equivalent of
> 
> def _pass(*args):
> 	return None
> 
> (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None)

OK, that works for me, and now I understand.

One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?



From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:07:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:34:22 PM UTC-8, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky
> <lad... at my-deja.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> > def _pass(*args):
> >     pass
> >
> 	This is the equivalent of
> 
> def _pass(*args):
> 	return None
> 
> (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None)

OK, that works for me, and now I understand.

One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Nov 18 00:25:29 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:25:29 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXief_vQ7Jp46eiKnwRPtAZ0YwNTZzzpJJxrrJk2D48FuQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>>
>>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>>
>> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is
>> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or
>> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So
>> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?
>>
>>
>>
> Because some ?people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It leads to an error message.


Checking my Python install, there should be an idle.bat file in there
too. Have you tried that?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 00:34:10 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:34:10 +1100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr6YQ-vDrqfp6xpwdENVFL5Mhkb=AKLZOSau3RJDX5kJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:07 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?

No, there wouldn't. The Python 'pass' statement is a special statement
that indicates a lack of anything to execute; a dummy function call
isn't this. What I would kinda like to see, though, is function
versions of many things. Your basic operators exist in the 'operator'
module, but the syntax is rather clunky; for comparison, Pike has
beautifully simple (if a little cryptic) syntax: back-tick followed by
the operator itself, very similar to the way C++ does operator
overloading.

In Python 2, back-tick has a special meaning. In Python 3, that
meaning is removed. Is the character now available for this
"function-version" syntax?

ChrisA


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Nov 18 00:49:47 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:49:47 -0800
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr6YQ-vDrqfp6xpwdENVFL5Mhkb=AKLZOSau3RJDX5kJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
	<CAPTjJmr6YQ-vDrqfp6xpwdENVFL5Mhkb=AKLZOSau3RJDX5kJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTyNQZ3QSjYgv8vgvMwQCv5eMbmfhOYJE4TZNypih5g5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:07 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
>> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?
>
> No, there wouldn't. The Python 'pass' statement is a special statement
> that indicates a lack of anything to execute; a dummy function call
> isn't this. What I would kinda like to see, though, is function
> versions of many things. Your basic operators exist in the 'operator'
> module, but the syntax is rather clunky; for comparison, Pike has
> beautifully simple (if a little cryptic) syntax: back-tick followed by
> the operator itself, very similar to the way C++ does operator
> overloading.
>
> In Python 2, back-tick has a special meaning. In Python 3, that
> meaning is removed. Is the character now available for this
> "function-version" syntax?

Negative. I know this from personal experience.

Things that will Not Change in Python 3000
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3099/ ):
"No more backticks."

Cheers,
Chris R.


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Fri Nov 18 00:54:15 2011
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 05:54:15 +0000
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87wraydlh4.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> In article <874ny2fzn6.fsf at no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>,
>  Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> 
>> Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about
>> with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to
>> work... is there a situation in which it doesn't?
>
> What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you 
> don't have access to?

If you change sys.path first - before you do any imports - then any
other imports will surely come from the first thing on sys.path (unless
something else you import also changes sys.path)?





From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 01:04:12 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:04:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2814.1321585155.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eebbe22c-a9a2-4a1f-b7cf-7a9f6475848a@y14g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 12:59?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you call your dummy function something else, it may help
> readability/self-documentation too.

Or replace the pass with a docstring for the same effect:

  def silent(*args):
    """Null Object to repress reporting"""



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 01:06:51 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <feae7780-d813-4b5d-9264-763d94231795@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 2:21?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Because some ?people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It
> leads to an error message.

No, people are saying "manually add IDLE _the correct way that Windows
can recognise_", not recommending you stuff random .pyw files into the
context menu and hope they work.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 18 01:07:21 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 06:07:21 GMT
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
Message-ID: <4ec5f619$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800, John Ladasky wrote:

> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python
> "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?

No.

The pass statement compiles to nothing at all. Your _pass() function 
compiles to a function object, which needs to be looked up at run time, 
then called, all of which takes time and memory.

To satisfy the compiler, but do nothing, the pass statement should stay a 
statement. When you need a "do nothing" function, either define one (two 
lines) in your application, or use a lambda in place (lambda *args: 
None). Either way, it is too trivial to be a built-in.

By the way, to answer your earlier question "what is pass?", you could do 
this in the interactive interpreter:

help("pass")




-- 
Steven


From namenobodywants at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 02:27:47 2011
From: namenobodywants at gmail.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:27:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: useless python - term rewriter
Message-ID: <429ffce6-8912-4851-bb4f-bb894241038f@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>


## term rewriter (python 3.1.1)

def gettokens(string):
    spaced = string.replace('(',' ( ').replace(')',' ) ')
    return spaced.split()

def getterm(tokens):
    if tokens[0] in '()':
        term = []
        assert tokens[0] == '('
        tokens.pop(0)
        while not tokens[0] == ')': term.append(getterm(tokens))
        tokens.pop(0)
        return term
    return tokens.pop(0)

def parse(strg):
    tokens = gettokens(strg)
    term = getterm(tokens)
    assert not tokens
    return term

def unparse(term):
    if type(term) == str: return term
    subterms = [unparse(subterm) for subterm in term]
    return '({})'.format(' '.join(subterms))

def atom(term):
    return type(term) == str

def compound(term):
    return type(term) == list

def variable(term):
    return atom(term) and term[0].isupper()

def constant(term):
    return atom(term) and not term[0].isupper()

def conformable(term1,term2):
    return compound(term1) and compound(term2) and len(term1) ==
len(term2)

def getrule(string):
    left, right = string.split('=')
    return [parse(left), parse(right)]

def getrules(string):
    nonblank = lambda substring: substring and not substring.isspace()
    return [getrule(substring) for substring in string.splitlines() if
nonblank(substring)]

def substitute(bindings,term):
    if constant(term): return term
    if variable(term): return bindings.get(term,term)
    return [substitute(bindings,subterm) for subterm in term]

def match(term,pattern):
    from operator import concat
    from functools import reduce
    if variable(pattern): return [[pattern, term]]
    if constant(pattern) and pattern == term: return []
    if conformable(pattern,term):
        matches = [match(subterm,subpattern) for subterm, subpattern
in zip(term,pattern)]
        return reduce(concat,matches)
    raise Exception

def rewrite(term,rule):
    if type(rule) == dict:
        function = rule[term[0]]
        arguments = [int(subterm) for subterm in term[1:]]
        return str(function(*arguments))
    left, right = rule
    bindings = dict(match(term,left))
    return substitute(bindings,right)

def apply(rule,term):
    try: return [rewrite(term,rule), True]
    except:
        if atom(term): return [term, False]
        applications = [apply(rule,subterm) for subterm in term]
        subterms = [subterm for subterm, change in applications]
        changes  = [change  for subterm, change in applications]
        return [subterms, any(changes)]

def normalize(term,rules):
    while True:
        changes = []
        for rule in rules:
            term, change = apply(rule,term)
            changes.append(change)
        if not any(changes): break
    return term

def translate(rules):
    string = input('>>> ')
    if string and not string.isspace():
        try:
            term = parse(string)
            normal = normalize(term,rules)
            string = unparse(normal)
            print(string)
        except: print('parse error')

def interpret(equations):
    import operator
    rules = [vars(operator)] + getrules(equations)
    while True:
        try: translate(rules)
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            print('end session')
            break

example = """

(factorial 0) = 1
(factorial N) = (mul N (factorial (sub N 1)))

(fibonacci 0) = 0
(fibonacci 1) = 1
(fibonacci N) = (add (fibonacci (sub N 1)) (fibonacci (sub N 2)))

"""

interpret(example)



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 18 02:35:51 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:35:51 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja51su$7ee$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/17/2011 7:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote:

> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE.

Use the start menu to start IDLE once. Then pin it to your taskbar.
If you do not have STart/ all programs / Python / IDLE, then your 
installation is bad.

As for the right click problem, you probably have something screwy in 
the registry. The python installer (or uninstaller) will not fix it (my 
experience on my old xp machine). You will have to do so manually.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 02:38:06 2011
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:38:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python chat
Message-ID: <1321601886.45737.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I've started a new site called StudyBrunch, where we offer a chance for online studygroups with video conferencing, screen sharing etc. ? I'd like to keep the groups small to be maneageble. ? I will offer a basic session on python for people who are interested, on Saturday or Sunday evening. ? If you are interested, you can look at:
http://www.studybrunch.com/studysession/intro-to-python/

For this month, general membership is free and I hope to move on to more advanced topics later. ? If you have questions, or suggestion for topics (for example, classes, wxpython, urllib2, etc.), then contact us through?http://www.studybrunch.com/contact/ so we don't spam the list.

I have listed some preliminary times on the site in EST, but let me know on the site if you can't make those and I can try to schedule another session later in the week. ??

Best,
William
-------------- next part --------------
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From peksikytola at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 02:51:12 2011
From: peksikytola at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?UGVra2EgS3l09mzk?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:51:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
Message-ID: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an
argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is
that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function
pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process. I'd
like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin dll and
expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load the dll
in python it will be different instance and the SDK function pointers
are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter but in
vain.

Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need
to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't
have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov 18 03:27:39 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:27:39 +0100
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
In-Reply-To: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 18.11.2011 08:51, schrieb Pekka Kyt?l?:
> Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an
> argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is
> that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function
> pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process.

DLL handles are valid anywhere in a process, but...

> I'd like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin
> dll and expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load
> the dll in python it will be different instance and the SDK function
> pointers are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter
> but in vain.

...ShellExecuteEx will create a new process, where the DLL handle is not 
valid. A new process has a separate memory space, so the function 
pointers are different etc. This is so by design, it shouldn't matter to 
one process when a DLL it uses is loaded into another process, too.


> Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need
> to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't
> have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment.

If all you want is to run Python code inside your application, you can 
link in a Python interpreter and run it from there. This is called 
embedding Python (docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html), as opposed 
to writing Python modules, don't confuse those two Python C APIs.

Another way to get both into the same process is to convert your host 
application into a Python module, which you then import into Python. 
This would use the other Python C API 
(docs.python.org/extending/extending.html).


It depends a bit on what you want to achieve, so you might want to 
elaborate on that. This is often better than asking for a way to achieve 
a solution that is impossible.


Good luck!

Uli


From peksikytola at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 04:31:42 2011
From: peksikytola at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?UGVra2EgS3l09mzk?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <59ccd4dd-3e39-44f5-8234-4afc64c32701@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 10:27?am, Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckha... at dominolaser.com>
wrote:
> Am 18.11.2011 08:51, schrieb Pekka Kyt?l?:
>
> > Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an
> > argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is
> > that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function
> > pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process.
>
> DLL handles are valid anywhere in a process, but...
>
> > I'd like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin
> > dll and expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load
> > the dll in python it will be different instance and the SDK function
> > pointers are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter
> > but in vain.
>
> ...ShellExecuteEx will create a new process, where the DLL handle is not
> valid. A new process has a separate memory space, so the function
> pointers are different etc. This is so by design, it shouldn't matter to
> one process when a DLL it uses is loaded into another process, too.
>
> > Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need
> > to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't
> > have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment.
>
> If all you want is to run Python code inside your application, you can
> link in a Python interpreter and run it from there. This is called
> embedding Python (docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html), as opposed
> to writing Python modules, don't confuse those two Python C APIs.
>
> Another way to get both into the same process is to convert your host
> application into a Python module, which you then import into Python.
> This would use the other Python C API
> (docs.python.org/extending/extending.html).
>
> It depends a bit on what you want to achieve, so you might want to
> elaborate on that. This is often better than asking for a way to achieve
> a solution that is impossible.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Uli

Thanks for reply, I'll try to elaborate a bit :)

I should have included this bit from:

http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html#loading-shared-libraries

"All these classes can be instantiated by calling them with at least
one argument, the pathname of the shared library. If you have an
existing handle to an already loaded shared library, it can be passed
as the handle named parameter, otherwise the underlying platforms
dlopen or LoadLibrary function is used to load the library into the
process, and to get a handle to it."

So, I've got this handle to my .dll and would want to get that passed
as an argument when firing up .py via ShellExecute and use one of the
dll load functions that take in handle. What I don't know if these
windows/python dll handles are interchangable at all. Think it would
be quite nice if they were. But if they aren't I need to forget about
it and just #include <Python.h>


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Fri Nov 18 04:57:42 2011
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:57:42 +0100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja5a6s$7at$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 18.11.2011 05:34 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
 >> def _pass(*args):
 >>      pass
 >>
 >> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
 >>      result1 = do_stuff()
 >>      report(result1)
 >
 > So this is a call to a function that just returns a None, which is
 > dropped by the interpreter...

I'm not sure about this. I think, the call will be executed, but the 
callee will return immediately. It is different from call being dropped.

Another optimized alternative could be to do

def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report=None):
     result1 = do_stuff()
     if report: report(result1)

but I think that is too low benefit at the cost of too much readability.

Such a function call is

   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               3 POP_JUMP_IF_FALSE       16
               6 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               9 CALL_FUNCTION            0
              12 POP_TOP
              13 JUMP_FORWARD             0 (to 16)

   3     >>   16 ...

as opposed to just

   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               3 CALL_FUNCTION            0
               6 POP_TOP

with a call target of

   1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
               3 RETURN_VALUE

I don't think that a call is sooo expensive that it would make any 
noticeable difference.


Thomas

BTW: Sorry, Dennis, for the private mail - I am incapable to use 
Thunderbird correctly :-(


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 05:23:29 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:23:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
Message-ID: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

Hi All, I'm trying to leverage my core i5 to send more UDP packets with multiprocssing, but I found a interesting thing is that the socket.bind is always reporting 10048 error even the process didn't do anything about the socket.
Here is the script

import threading,socket,random,pp,os
import time
from multiprocessing import Process
import multiprocessing.reduction

localIP='10.80.2.24'
localPort=2924
remoteIP='10.80.5.143'
remotePort=2924
sock=socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
#sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
sock.bind((localIP,localPort))
sock.connect((remoteIP,remotePort))

addRequest="MEGACO/1 ["+localIP+"]:"+str(localPort)+"\r\nTRANSACTION = 100 {\r\n" \
"\tCONTEXT = $ {\r\n" \
"\t\tADD = TDMs15c1f1/11{ \r\n" \
" Media { LocalControl { Mode=SendReceive,tdmc/ec=on  }} " \
"\t}\r\n}}\r\n"

def sendAddRequest(sock,addRequst):
	#for i in range(2500):
	#sock.send(addRequest)
	print "hello"

		
		
if __name__ == '__main__':
	reader = Process(target=sendAddRequest,args=(sock,addRequest))
	reader.start()


Here is the output

D:\Python test>mythread2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 346, in main
    prepare(preparation_data)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 461, in prepare
    '__parents_main__', file, path_name, etc
  File "D:\Python test\mythread2.py", line 12, in <module>
    sock.bind((localIP,localPort))
  File "C:\Python27\lib\socket.py", line 224, in meth
    return getattr(self._sock,name)(*args)
socket.error: [Errno 10048] Only one usage of each socket address (protocol/netw
ork address/port) is normally permitted


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov 18 05:52:54 2011
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:52:54 +0100
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
In-Reply-To: <c13d5fb5-9a2d-420a-b5e6-6100dc8b0fbb@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
	<c13d5fb5-9a2d-420a-b5e6-6100dc8b0fbb@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ec63907$0$6850$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 18/11/11 03:58:46, alex23 wrote:
> On Nov 18, 11:36 am, Roy Smith<r... at panix.com>  wrote:
>> What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you
>> don't have access to?

> No import will happen until you import something.

That would be the case if you use the '-S' command line option.

Otherwise, site.py is imported before you get a chance to alter
sys.path, and by default site.py imports other modules.

-- HansM



From michels at mps.mpg.de  Fri Nov 18 05:56:36 2011
From: michels at mps.mpg.de (Helmut Michels)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:56:36 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Data Plotting Library Dislin 10.2
Message-ID: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>

Dear Python programmers,

I am pleased to announce version 10.2 of the data plotting software
Dislin.

Dislin is a high-level and easy to use plotting library for
displaying data as curves, bar graphs, pie charts, 3D-colour plots,
surfaces, contours and maps. Several output formats are supported
such as X11, VGA, OpenGL, PostScript, PDF, CGM, WMF, HPGL, TIFF, GIF, 
PNG, BMP and SVG.

The software is available for the most C, Fortran 77 and Fortran 90/95
compilers. Plotting extensions for the interpreting languages Perl,
Python and Java are also supported.

Dislin is available from the site

      http://www.dislin.de

and via FTP from the server

      ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/grafik/dislin

All Dislin distributions are free for non-commercial use. Licenses
for commercial use are available from http://www.dislin.de.

  -------------------
   Helmut Michels
   Max Planck Institute for
   Solar System Research              Phone: +49 5556 979-334
   Max-Planck-Str. 2                  Fax  : +49 5556 979-240
   D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau          Mail : michels at mps.mpg.de


From peksikytola at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 06:49:14 2011
From: peksikytola at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?UGVra2EgS3l09mzk?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<59ccd4dd-3e39-44f5-8234-4afc64c32701@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6bc18373-3213-4153-ad87-ba998ca2e597@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hmm. Let me describe what is going a bit more carefully:

What I build is a dll file that has exported function that gets called
when the host application/dll loads my dll. In this function the
function pointers to the actual SDK functions are fetched. After this
my dll's registers some plugins that have callbacks. After that it's
all about reacting to an event/callback. What I'd like to do is that
after fetching those SDK function pointers I'd like to fire
up .py/.pyc that snoops for possible plugins written in python and
registers those plugins and callbacks and let them react to events.
Obviously this python code needs access to those SDK functions.
Essentially it would show for the host app as one .dll but registers
multiple plugins from different python files.

I don't mind if it's not ShellExecute route, but I'd prefer
approaching this so that I don't need to compile different dll's to
different versions of python but let the python code take care of that
stuff.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 08:03:28 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:03:28 +0000
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <ja4n8b$dor$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<ja4n8b$dor$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EC657A0.7000103@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 18/11/2011 04:34, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky
> <ladasky at my-deja.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process.  From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways.  Other times, I'll just want to let it run.  So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:
>>
>> def _pass(*args):
>>      pass
>>
> 	This is the equivalent of
>
> def _pass(*args):
> 	return None
>
Wouldn't "pass_" be a more Pythonic name?

> (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None)
>
>> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
>>      result1 = do_stuff()
>>      report(result1)
>
> 	So this is a call to a function that just returns a None, which is
> dropped by the interpreter...
>



From neilc at norwich.edu  Fri Nov 18 08:11:05 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 13:11:05 GMT
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>
>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>> does it work?
>>
>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see
>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>
> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
> Computer Tools?

Open Windows Explorer.
With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.

There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
buttons below far making changes to them.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov 18 09:14:56 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:14:56 +0100
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
In-Reply-To: <6bc18373-3213-4153-ad87-ba998ca2e597@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<59ccd4dd-3e39-44f5-8234-4afc64c32701@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6bc18373-3213-4153-ad87-ba998ca2e597@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0s5ip8-oq1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 18.11.2011 12:49, schrieb Pekka Kyt?l?:
> What I'd like to do is that after fetching those SDK function
> pointers I'd like to fire up .py/.pyc that snoops for possible
> plugins written in python and registers those plugins and callbacks
> and let them react to events. Obviously this python code needs access
> to those SDK functions. Essentially it would show for the host app as
> one .dll but registers multiple plugins from different python files.

Okay, so you want to export functions from your host application (it 
doesn't matter if that is inside a DLL or not) to a bunch of Python 
plugins. This is actually the embedding that I hinted at and documented, 
but here's some example code (stripped of any error handling and 
reference counting, so beware!):

// append line to debug log
static PyObject*
log_string(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
     char const* arg = 0;
     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &arg))
         return NULL;

     fprintf(debug_output, "%s", arg);
     Py_RETURN_NONE;
}

// exported API
static PyMethodDef host_api[] =
{
     {"log_string", log_string, METH_VARARGS,
         "log_string(string) -> None\n"
         "Write text to debug output."},
     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
};

Py_Initialize();
PyObject* host_api_module = Py_InitModule("host", host_api);
PyObject* test_module = PyImport_ImportModule("./test.py");
PyObject* main_function = PyObject_GetAttrString(test_module, "main");
PyObject* res = PyObject_CallObject(main_function, NULL);
Py_Finalize();


This has the disadvantage that it blocks, for multiple Python threads, 
you need to program a dispatcher. Also, you can only have a single 
interpreter loaded, so other parts of your program may not call 
Py_Initialize().

It does the job for my uses, so I hope it helps!

Uli


From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 09:51:12 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:51:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
Message-ID: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
all attributes that correspond to a primary key.

I can write a function like this to get the primary key:

def get_key(instance_of_record):
   return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)

However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
generator.

For example, if key_attrs=['A','B'], I want the generated function to
be equivalent to the following:

def get_key(instance_of_record):
   return (instance_of_record['A'],instance_of_record['B'] )

I realize I can use eval or exec to do this. But is there any other
way to do this?

Thanks,
gz






From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:20:20 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <15167697.1495.1321629620458.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

I did a test on linux, it works well, so the issue is related to os.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 10:29:56 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:29:56 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>>
>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>> does it work?
>>>
>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see
>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>
>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>> Computer Tools?
>
> Open Windows Explorer.
> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>
> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
> buttons below far making changes to them.
>
OK, I've found that. I see
Py
Pyc
Pyo
Pyw
If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each. 
If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are 
IDLE and Open.

What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?

If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various 
python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I 
have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I 
see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither. 
Why isn't IDLE listed there?

If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with".  Notepad and python.exe 
are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For 
example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question 
is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in 
...\Lib\idlelib?  My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid 
Win32 app", when I try to use it.




From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:33:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:33:11 +1100
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrwDYEzm61Q2T1ShWJe5op3Z8ZOKNaeGG49hqY6TRe3zA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Junfeng Hu <hujunfeng at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All, I'm trying to leverage my core i5 to send more UDP packets with multiprocssing, but I found a interesting thing is that the socket.bind is always reporting 10048 error even the process didn't do anything about the socket.
> sock.bind((localIP,localPort))
> socket.error: [Errno 10048] Only one usage of each socket address (protocol/netw
> ork address/port) is normally permitted

Try setting the socket to SO_REUSEADDR.

ChrisA


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:48:36 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:48:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks 
Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line 
sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
Here is the results.
D:\Python test>mythread2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
    self = load(from_parent)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
    return Unpickler(file).load()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
    dispatch[key](self)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
    value = func(*args)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
et
    _sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
    s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:48:36 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:48:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks 
Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line 
sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
Here is the results.
D:\Python test>mythread2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
    self = load(from_parent)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
    return Unpickler(file).load()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
    dispatch[key](self)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
    value = func(*args)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
et
    _sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
    s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:51:49 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

And actually ,the socket hadn't been used in this script.



From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:51:49 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

And actually ,the socket hadn't been used in this script.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 10:54:56 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:54:56 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja5v4k$thc$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 8:34 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
> 	Fine... so open a directory window, follow
>
> Tools/Folder Options/File Types
>
> Scroll down to PYW, click [Advanced]
>
> 	You should get an "Edit File Type" dialog. Mine shows just one
> action "open", yours probably has "open" and "edit". Select "edit" and
> then click [Edit] button. See what it says for the application to be
> used.
>
> 	Do the same on the Win7 machine -- it probably doesn't have "edit"
> as an action, so you'll be picking the [New] button. Define the new
> action to look like the action on the laptop (use the correct path to
> the python executable, and maybe to IDLE).
>
> 	Heck, check what those actions show for PY files too... The only
> difference between PY and PYW should be the application used in the
> "open" action.
> PY =>  .../python.exe
> PYW =>  .../pythonw.exe
>
> 	Also make sure that the "open" action is the defined default (select
> the action, and click the default button); when there are more than one
> action, the default will be in bold.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>>
>> Comments?
See my response to Neil Cerutii a few msgs above this one.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 10:57:02 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:57:02 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja5v9j$vqj$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 8:34 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
> 	Fine... so open a directory window, follow
>
> Tools/Folder Options/File Types
>
> Scroll down to PYW, click [Advanced]
>
> 	You should get an "Edit File Type" dialog. Mine shows just one
> action "open", yours probably has "open" and "edit". Select "edit" and
> then click [Edit] button. See what it says for the application to be
> used.
>
> 	Do the same on the Win7 machine -- it probably doesn't have "edit"
> as an action, so you'll be picking the [New] button. Define the new
> action to look like the action on the laptop (use the correct path to
> the python executable, and maybe to IDLE).
>
> 	Heck, check what those actions show for PY files too... The only
> difference between PY and PYW should be the application used in the
> "open" action.
> PY =>  .../python.exe
> PYW =>  .../pythonw.exe
>
> 	Also make sure that the "open" action is the defined default (select
> the action, and click the default button); when there are more than one
> action, the default will be in bold.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>>
>> Comments?
See my response to Neil Cerutti a few msgs above this one.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:04:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:04:11 +1100
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmohkK9QHzyvRjEsaEzbohW71OkvdWd3CHDN6CTvY6bSFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Junfeng Hu <hujunfeng at gmail.com> wrote:
> And actually ,the socket hadn't been used in this script.

Doesn't matter that you haven't used it; you're binding to the port,
that's what causes the 10048.

I think the main problem is that you're trying to share sockets across
processes, but I haven't used the Python multiprocessing module with
sockets before. I would recommend, if you can, creating separate
sockets in each subprocess; that might make things a bit easier.

ChrisA


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:11:40 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:11:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Hi Chris.
The socket only binded once. That's the problem I'm puzzleing, I think it may a bug of multiprocessing in windows, or something I missed.


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:11:40 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:11:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Hi Chris.
The socket only binded once. That's the problem I'm puzzleing, I think it may a bug of multiprocessing in windows, or something I missed.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:16:47 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:16:47 +1100
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq5qHzTm-2WJfwXnVrdEPYgyUOSgrJjjj_zOtecoc2huA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Junfeng Hu <hujunfeng at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Chris.
> The socket only binded once. That's the problem I'm puzzleing, I think it may a bug of multiprocessing in windows, or something I missed.

I don't know how multiprocessing goes about initializing those
subprocesses; I suspect that's where it creates the additional
sockets.

ChrisA


From ramapraba2653 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:20:05 2011
From: ramapraba2653 at gmail.com (SUPREME)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:20:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FOR FAST UPDATES IN FILM INDUSTRY
Message-ID: <edd36a2c-47f4-4fbe-aae4-4663ba03e4bc@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>


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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 11:55:33 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:55:33 +0000
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <4EC68E05.6030209@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 18/11/2011 15:48, Junfeng Hu wrote:
> Thanks
> Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line
> sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> Here is the results.
> D:\Python test>mythread2.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<string>", line 1, in<module>
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
>      self = load(from_parent)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
>      return Unpickler(file).load()
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
>      dispatch[key](self)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
>      value = func(*args)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
> et
>      _sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
>      s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'

The documentation for socket.fromfd says:

     Availability: Unix.

You're using Microsoft Windows.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Nov 18 11:56:29 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:56:29 +0100
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
In-Reply-To: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC68E3D.4050402@sequans.com>

GZ wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
> all attributes that correspond to a primary key.
>
> I can write a function like this to get the primary key:
>
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>    return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)
>
> However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
> program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
> wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
> with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
> generator.
>
> For example, if key_attrs=['A','B'], I want the generated function to
> be equivalent to the following:
>
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>    return (instance_of_record['A'],instance_of_record['B'] )
>
> I realize I can use eval or exec to do this. But is there any other
> way to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> gz
>
>
>
>   
Hi,

you may want to do something like

class Record(object):
  PRIMARY_KEY = []
  def __init__(self):
    for key in self.PRIMARY_KEY:
      setattr(self, key, None)

  def getPrimaryKeyValues(self):
    return [ getattr(self, key) for key in self.PRIMARY_KEY]


class FruitRecord(Record):
  PRIMARY_KEY = ['fruit_id', 'fruit_name']



JM

PS : there's a high chance that a python module already exists to access 
your database with python objects.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 12:12:40 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:12:40 +0000
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC69208.6040104@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>>>
>>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>>> does it work?
>>>>
>>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
>>>> and see
>>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>>> Computer Tools?
>>
>> Open Windows Explorer.
>> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
>> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>>
>> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
>> buttons below far making changes to them.
>>
> OK, I've found that. I see
> Py
> Pyc
> Pyo
> Pyw
> If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
> If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
> IDLE and Open.
>
> What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>
> If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
> python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
> have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
> see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
> Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>
> If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
> are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
> example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
> is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
> ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
> Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>
You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
an executable (an .exe).

Have a look here:
http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-context-menu-action-for-jpg-and-other-image-fil

In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
same) it has the entry:

Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n 
-e "%1"

Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
.exe file.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 12:19:53 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:19:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <18f7cac6-1c38-4506-b8b9-f30d2b9ae5a9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 10:12?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> >> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> >>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
> >>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
> >>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
> >>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>
> >>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
> >>>> does it work?
>
> >>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
> >>>> and see
> >>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>
> >>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
> >>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
> >>> Computer Tools?
>
> >> Open Windows Explorer.
> >> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
> >> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>
> >> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
> >> buttons below far making changes to them.
>
> > OK, I've found that. I see
> > Py
> > Pyc
> > Pyo
> > Pyw
> > If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
> > If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
> > IDLE and Open.
>
> > What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>
> > If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
> > python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
> > have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
> > see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
> > Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>
> > If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
> > are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
> > example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
> > is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
> > ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
> > Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>
> You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
> an executable (an .exe).
>
> Have a look here:http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-c...
>
> In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
> same) it has the entry:
>
> Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
> Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n
> -e "%1"
>
> Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
> .exe file.

The tools -> folder options approach is the user-friendly approach --
when it works.
The 'Correct the registry' is the muscular approach -- it will set
right everything iff you are a wizard.

In between the two is assoc and ftype see
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/ftype.mspx?mfr=true
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/assoc.mspx?mfr=true


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:45:26 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:45:26 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja65js$auo$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 9:12 AM, MRAB wrote:
> On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>>> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>>>> does it work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
>>>>> and see
>>>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>>>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>>>> Computer Tools?
>>>
>>> Open Windows Explorer.
>>> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
>>> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>>>
>>> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
>>> buttons below far making changes to them.
>>>
>> OK, I've found that. I see
>> Py
>> Pyc
>> Pyo
>> Pyw
>> If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
>> If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
>> IDLE and Open.
>>
>> What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>>
>> If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
>> python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
>> have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
>> see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
>> Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>>
>> If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
>> are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
>> example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
>> is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
>> ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
>> Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>>
> You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
> an executable (an .exe).

Odd, but OK.

>
> Have a look here:
> http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-context-menu-action-for-jpg-and-other-image-fil
Are you suggesting that I use the "default" program mentioned there?
>
>
> In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
> same) it has the entry:
>
> Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
> Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n
> -e "%1"
>
> Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
> .exe file.
So pythonw.exe and idle.pyw are not scripts but somehow can fire up idle?

Are you suggesting I modify my registry?  I still find it bizarre the 
install did not put it IDLE choice on the menu for py. It's there on XP.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:48:54 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:48:54 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <18f7cac6-1c38-4506-b8b9-f30d2b9ae5a9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<18f7cac6-1c38-4506-b8b9-f30d2b9ae5a9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja65qc$c2s$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 9:19 AM, rusi wrote:
> On Nov 18, 10:12 pm, MRAB<pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com>  wrote:
>> On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>>>> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>
>>>>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>>>>> does it work?
>>
>>>>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
>>>>>> and see
>>>>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>
>>>>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>>>>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>>>>> Computer Tools?
>>
>>>> Open Windows Explorer.
>>>> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
>>>> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>>
>>>> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
>>>> buttons below far making changes to them.
>>
>>> OK, I've found that. I see
>>> Py
>>> Pyc
>>> Pyo
>>> Pyw
>>> If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
>>> If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
>>> IDLE and Open.
>>
>>> What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>>
>>> If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
>>> python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
>>> have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
>>> see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
>>> Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>>
>>> If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
>>> are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
>>> example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
>>> is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
>>> ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
>>> Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>>
>> You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
>> an executable (an .exe).
>>
>> Have a look here:http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-c...
>>
>> In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
>> same) it has the entry:
>>
>> Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
>> Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n
>> -e "%1"
>>
>> Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
>> .exe file.
>
> The tools ->  folder options approach is the user-friendly approach --
> when it works.
> The 'Correct the registry' is the muscular approach -- it will set
> right everything iff you are a wizard.
>
> In between the two is assoc and ftype see
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/ftype.mspx?mfr=true
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/assoc.mspx?mfr=true
These two seem equally muscular. I shudder to think where these choices 
might lead me.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Nov 18 12:52:49 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 17:52:49 GMT
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9FA1B5E1D59FEduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

GZ <zyzhu2000 at gmail.com> wrote:

> For example, if key_attrs=['A','B'], I want the generated function to
> be equivalent to the following:
> 
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>    return (instance_of_record['A'],instance_of_record['B'] )
> 
> I realize I can use eval or exec to do this. But is there any other
> way to do this?
> 

Use operator.itemgetter:

>>> key_attrs = ['A', 'B']
>>> import operator
>>> get_key = operator.itemgetter(*key_attrs)
>>> d = {'A': 42, 'B': 63, 'C': 99}
>>> get_key(d)
(42, 63)

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:57:53 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:57:53 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2825.1321601777.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2825.1321601777.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja66b7$fjn$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 11:35 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 7:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE.
>
> Use the start menu to start IDLE once. Then pin it to your taskbar.
> If you do not have STart/ all programs / Python / IDLE, then your
> installation is bad.
>
> As for the right click problem, you probably have something screwy in
> the registry. The python installer (or uninstaller) will not fix it (my
> experience on my old xp machine). You will have to do so manually.
>
IDLE is a choice on the Start menu (All Programs). Pressing it does 
nothing. I see nothing that suggests it's open.

The IDLE entry is pointing at c:\Python27\ (shortcut)

A post above yours suggests IDLE is a script, and somehow needs a 
"boost" to use it. An exe file, apparently.  Beats the heck out of me.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:59:00 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:59:00 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2822.1321594000.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2822.1321594000.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja66d8$fjn$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 9:25 PM, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>> On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>>>
>>>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>>>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>>>
>>> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is
>>> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or
>>> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So
>>> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Because some  people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It leads to an error message.
>
>
> Checking my Python install, there should be an idle.bat file in there
> too. Have you tried that?
Yes. I tried running it. Got nowhere.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 13:04:19 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:04:19 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
In-Reply-To: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=nmNo95GGAARZV=v8qzTCHezAY7o=YVBvSsAmdoxss6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:51 AM, GZ <zyzhu2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
> all attributes that correspond to a primary key.
>
> I can write a function like this to get the primary key:
>
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>   return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)
>
> However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
> program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
> wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
> with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
> generator.

(Accidentally sent this to the OP only)

This is exactly what the attrgetter factory function produces.

from operator import attrgetter
get_key = attrgetter(*key_attrs)

But if your attribute names are variable and arbitrary, I strongly
recommend you store them in a dict instead.  Setting them as instance
attributes risks that they might conflict with the regular attributes
and methods on your objects.

Cheers,
Ian


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 13:06:47 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
Message-ID: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>

Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 
flop the same way under Win 7.

One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 
2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you 
right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 13:10:32 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:10:32 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja672s$jag$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 10:06 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
> flop the same way under Win 7.
>
> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?

Try it on Win 7.


From mbadoiu at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 16:10:24 2011
From: mbadoiu at gmail.com (Mihai Badoiu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:10:24 -0500
Subject: Resources consumed by parent
Message-ID: <CAGGWHE5BV=t0tcNdOPFAZheOAVwokc5eOx835Zj390CRFV0LLw@mail.gmail.com>

How do I get the resources consumed by the parent process?

getrusage() in the resource module seems to work only for self or the
children processes.

thanks,

--mihai
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From me+list/python at ixokai.io  Fri Nov 18 17:31:54 2011
From: me+list/python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:31:54 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC6DCDA.8040802@ixokai.io>

On 11/17/11 8:34 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 7:04 PM, alex23 wrote:
>> On Nov 18, 2:55 am, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>> Comments?
>>
>> Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I
>> find the latter integrates better with Windows.
>>
>> Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows?
> 64-bit and plain old python msi installer.

That'd be it, I expect.

Windows has two parallel registry trees; if you launch a 32-bit program,
it sees one.. if you launch a 64-bit program, it sees the other. What
looks like the exact same keys can be different as a result.

The MSI is probably writing the keys into the 32-bit registry, and
Explorer is now a 64-bit application.

You can add the associations for Edit manually. Though not to
"idle.pyw", which you keep -- repeatedly -- saying you try and errors.
Of course it errors. That's a python script, not an executable.

Associate to pythonw.exe, and pass it the path to idle.pyw, and then -n
-e "%1" -- which will be replaced with the actual filename. But you were
told that already and seem to have just dismissed it out of hand.

Like: PATH\pythonw.exe PATH\idle.pyw -n -e "%1"

... where PATH is whatever the location of those files are in your
environment.

Yes, its moderately annoying that you have to do this yourself; maybe
you wouldn't if you installed 64-bit python, but I can't be sure. Maybe
it has nothing to do with 32 or 64-bitness at all and my guess is wrong.
Maybe your profile has gone wonky. But it doesn't matter. You can add
the Edit association yourself. Its a one-time fix.

-- 

   Stephen Hansen
   ... Also: Ixokai
   ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
   ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/

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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 18 18:44:08 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 23:44:08 GMT
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
> flop the same way under Win 7.
> 
> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?

Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.

"I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."


If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit 
version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems 
stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.



-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 19:31:03 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 3:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>
> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>
> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."
>
>
> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>
>
>
Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.

Ah, I installed a 32-bit.  Missed his post. So what should I do? Try 
3.3.2 64-bit? I'm game. By the time you read this, I will either have 
done it or gotten into it.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 19:50:24 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:50:24 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 4:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 3:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>>
>>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
>>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>>
>> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>>
>> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."
>>
>>
>> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
>> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
>> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>>
>>
>>
> Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.
>
> Ah, I installed a 32-bit. Missed his post. So what should I do? Try
> 3.3.2 64-bit? I'm game. By the time you read this, I will either have
> done it or gotten into it.

3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2 
release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google 
shows me nothing for 3.3.2.

I see:
     * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug 
information files (sig)
     * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio 
debug information files (sig)

Visual Studio????  I hope I don't need VS!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 20:22:04 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:22:04 +0000
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC704BC.6050703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 19/11/2011 00:50, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 4:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/18/2011 3:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>>>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>>>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
>>>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>>>
>>> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>>>
>>> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works
>>> fine."
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
>>> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry
>>> problems
>>> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.
>>
>> Ah, I installed a 32-bit. Missed his post. So what should I do? Try
>> 3.3.2 64-bit? I'm game. By the time you read this, I will either have
>> done it or gotten into it.
>
> 3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2
> release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google
> shows me nothing for 3.3.2.
>
> I see:
> * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug
> information files (sig)
> * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio debug
> information files (sig)
>
> Visual Studio???? I hope I don't need VS!

If you look more closely you'll see that there are 5 links on each line:

     Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
     [1]
     (sig)
     Visual Studio debug information files
     (sig)

Unless you intending to work on the sources, you need just the first
one:

     Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)

for a 64-bit build of Python 3.2.2.


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 21:45:42 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:45:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<mailman.2835.1321635315.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5e4635df-936f-4f5d-b3c9-ad4370a3be64@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 10:55?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 18/11/2011 15:48, Junfeng Hu wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thanks
> > Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line
> > sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> > Here is the results.
> > D:\Python test>mythread2.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? ?File "<string>", line 1, in<module>
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
> > ? ? ?self = load(from_parent)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
> > ? ? ?return Unpickler(file).load()
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
> > ? ? ?dispatch[key](self)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
> > ? ? ?value = func(*args)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
> > et
> > ? ? ?_sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
> > ? ? ?s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'
>
> The documentation for socket.fromfd says:
>
> ? ? ?Availability: Unix.
>
> You're using Microsoft Windows.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, but my question is , how to make such script work in windows.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Fri Nov 18 23:26:17 2011
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:26:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Data Plotting Library Dislin 10.2
References: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<P8KdnVF1zKmqVlvTnZ2dnUVZ8gGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <9599229d-28aa-4730-b29a-b7c32e1e3d2e@e15g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Nov, 22:16, Tony the Tiger <t... at tiger.invalid> wrote:

> Ya, but apparently no source unless you dig deep into your pockets.
> Really, why would we need this when we already have gnuplot?
> Just wondering...

Dislin is a very nice plotting library for scientific data,
particularly for scientists and engineers using Fortran (which,
incidentally, is quite a few).

For Python, we have Matplotlib as well (at least for 2D plots).


Sturla


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 18 23:36:08 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Nov 2011 04:36:08 GMT
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec73237$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.

Oops, so you're right. Sorry for the noise.

-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 00:03:58 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:03:58 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>

...
>>
>> 3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2
>> release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google
>> shows me nothing for 3.3.2.
>>
>> I see:
>> * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>> information files (sig)
>> * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>> information files (sig)
>>
>> Visual Studio???? I hope I don't need VS!
>
> If you look more closely you'll see that there are 5 links on each line:
>
> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
> [1]
> (sig)
> Visual Studio debug information files
> (sig)
>
> Unless you intending to work on the sources, you need just the first
> one:
>
> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>
> for a 64-bit build of Python 3.2.2.

An oddity occurs here. Yes, x86-64 is the right installer, maybe. While 
noting your msg, my PC got very slow, and I ended up going to a related 
site for the downloads of 3.2.2 while trying for the one above. 
<http://www.python.org/download/>.

It shows:
Also look at the detailed Python 3.2.2 page:

     * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does 
not include source)
     * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 
64 / X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)

The first of the two choices does not say x-bit anything. The second 
looks off course for my HP 64-bit PC.

I'm going to just use Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2).

Wait a minute Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2). Windows X86-64 MSI 
Installer (3.2.2) shows it's associated with Visual Studio.  Why would I 
want that? Ah, I get it The single first line has Windows X86-64 MSI 
Installer (3.2.2) and Visual Studio.  That's a really weird way to 
arrange them. OK, now off to Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)

I'll be back shortly after I've made the install.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 00:28:39 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:28:39 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja7eqd$us9$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 9:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> ...
>>>
>>> 3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2
>>> release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google
>>> shows me nothing for 3.3.2.
>>>
>>> I see:
>>> * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>>> information files (sig)
>>> * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>>> information files (sig)
>>>
>>> Visual Studio???? I hope I don't need VS!
>>
>> If you look more closely you'll see that there are 5 links on each line:
>>
>> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>> [1]
>> (sig)
>> Visual Studio debug information files
>> (sig)
>>
>> Unless you intending to work on the sources, you need just the first
>> one:
>>
>> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>>
>> for a 64-bit build of Python 3.2.2.
>
> An oddity occurs here. Yes, x86-64 is the right installer, maybe. While
> noting your msg, my PC got very slow, and I ended up going to a related
> site for the downloads of 3.2.2 while trying for the one above.
> <http://www.python.org/download/>.
>
> It shows:
> Also look at the detailed Python 3.2.2 page:
>
> * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does not
> include source)
> * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 64 /
> X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)
>
> The first of the two choices does not say x-bit anything. The second
> looks off course for my HP 64-bit PC.
>
> I'm going to just use Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2).
>
> Wait a minute Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2). Windows X86-64 MSI
> Installer (3.2.2) shows it's associated with Visual Studio. Why would I
> want that? Ah, I get it The single first line has Windows X86-64 MSI
> Installer (3.2.2) and Visual Studio. That's a really weird way to
> arrange them. OK, now off to Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>
> I'll be back shortly after I've made the install.

I surrender. IDLE does not appear as a choice when I right-click on a py 
file.

IDLE is on the All Programs list, and if I click on it, something more 
or less seems to happen, but it does not reveal anything. There is a 
comparability choice there that asks what OS did it last run on. 
Unfortunately the choices were VISTA (service packs) and Win7. I 
selected Win7 but it didn't help. Off to bed soon.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 19 05:34:25 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 05:34:25 -0500
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ja80nq$a45$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/18/2011 6:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>
> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>
> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."

64 bit python and 64 bit win 7
>
> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>
>
>


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 19 05:39:19 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 05:39:19 -0500
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja8111$df5$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/19/2011 12:03 AM, W. eWatson wrote:

I meant 3.2.2, not 3.3.2, sorry for typo.

> * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does not
> include source)

this is 32 bit. Note that your c: has /program files for 64 bit programs 
and /program files(x86) for 32 bit programs. I know, a bit confusing.

> * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 64 /
> X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)

this is 64 bit.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 08:51:57 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 00:51:57 +1100
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGe_XJy3brdnefSPb+EsWizhQfp5vs0LWfoGy-JnpV_VOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Works fine for me from msi install on Windows 8 x64 Dev Preview

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:06 AM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop
> the same way under Win 7.
>
> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 2.7.2
> has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. ?That is, if you right-click
> on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From safeerheart at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 09:54:47 2011
From: safeerheart at gmail.com (safeer)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:54:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: dj
Message-ID: <275a84ea-7a85-42fe-82ce-eab8e63326f0@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

http://123maza.com/48/gold028/


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 10:35:52 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:35:52 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2845.1321699210.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2845.1321699210.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8ict$ejl$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 2:39 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 12:03 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>
> I meant 3.2.2, not 3.3.2, sorry for typo.
>
>> * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does not
>> include source)
>
> this is 32 bit. Note that your c: has /program files for 64 bit programs
> and /program files(x86) for 32 bit programs. I know, a bit confusing.
>
>> * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 64 /
>> X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)
>
> this is 64 bit.
>
Yes. Did I miss something?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 10:39:34 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:39:34 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2844.1321698888.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2844.1321698888.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8ijs$gkn$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 2:34 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 6:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>>
>>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
>>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>>
>> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>>
>> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."
>
> 64 bit python and 64 bit win 7
>>
>> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
>> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
>> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Yes, see the other fork started by MRAB I tried it. Same old problem.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 11:14:57 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:14:57 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8km7$tf5$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 5:51 AM, Alec Taylor wrote:
> Works fine for me from msi install on Windows 8 x64 Dev Preview
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:06 AM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop
>> the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 2.7.2
>> has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you right-click
>> on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
3.2.2, and not 2.7.2. The course of the thread was changed at the MRAB 
post.

What do you mean by it works fine? My criterion is that it puts IDLE as 
a choice for editor on the menu produced with a right-click on a py file.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 11:18:54 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:18:54 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8ktk$tf5$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 5:51 AM, Alec Taylor wrote:
> Works fine for me from msi install on Windows 8 x64 Dev Preview
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:06 AM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop
>> the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 2.7.2
>> has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you right-click
>> on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Are you suggesting the mail list might be a better place to pursue this? 
Or is it from some one else?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Nov 19 18:21:52 2011
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:21:52 -0800
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
References: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <7xwravu29b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

nivashno <nivashno at domain.invalid> writes:
> I always thought that xml was very precisely split up into nodes, 
> childnodes, etc, no matter what the whitespace between them was. But 
> apparently not, or am I missing something?

The whitespace in your example becomes part of a data element.


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Nov 19 19:42:19 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:42:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5dfa9add-582f-4219-8d78-01239f80525e@p5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 9:06?am, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 16, 10:50?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > sword wrote:
> > > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > > main.py looks like this:
> > > #main.py
> > > importlogging
> > > fromloggingimport Filter
> > > import a
> > > import b
>
> > >logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > > root =logging.getLogger()
> > > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > > would pass this filter
>
> > > logger =logging.getLogger("main")
> > > logger.debug("main process")
> > > a.print_log()
> > > b.print_log()
>
> > > ####
> > > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> > Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> > $ cat demo.py
> > importlogging
> > class Filter(logging.Filter):
> > ? ? def filter(self, record):
> > ? ? ? ? print "applying filter", self.name
> > ? ? ? ? return True
>
> >logging.basicConfig()
>
> > loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> > for logger in loggers:
> > ? ? logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> > [handler] =logging.getLogger().handlers
> > handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))
>
> > for logger in loggers:
> > ? ? logger.critical("whatever")
> > $ python demo.py
> > applying filter filter at root
> > applying filter filter at handler
> > CRITICAL:root:whatever
> > applying filter filter at a
> > applying filter filter at handler
> > CRITICAL:a:whatever
> > applying filter fil... at a.b
> > applying filter filter at handler
> > CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> > $
>
> > As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> > and of the handler(s) are applied.
>
> Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
> different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
> corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
> out only the interested info from it before.

Or you can add a filter to the handler (but then you can't use
basicConfig() to configure it - you need to do it explicitly).

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sat Nov 19 23:30:22 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:30:22 +0900
Subject: [ANN] Oktest.py 0.11.0 released - a new-style testing library
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rtz-YeAP73w2Up2a1woNDxZz=tna1KoiJNQfhUosY+C4g@mail.gmail.com>

I released Oktest.py 0.11.0.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Oktest/
http://packages.python.org/Oktest/

Oktest.py is a new-style testing library for Python.
::

    from oktest import ok, NG
    ok (x) > 0                 # same as assertTrue(x > 0)
    ok (s) == 'foo'            # same as assertEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (s) != 'foo'            # same as assertNotEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (f).raises(ValueError)  # same as assertRaises(ValueError, f)
    ok (u'foo').is_a(unicode)  # same as assertTrue(isinstance(u'foo', unicode))
    NG (u'foo').is_a(int)      # same as assertTrue(not isinstance(u'foo', int))
    ok ('A.txt').is_file()     # same as assertTrue(os.path.isfile('A.txt'))
    NG ('A.txt').is_dir()      # same as assertTrue(not os.path.isdir('A.txt'))

See
  http://packages.python.org/Oktest/
for details.


Changes and Enhancements
------------------------

* [change] 'spec()' is now NOT obsoleted.

* [change] 'spec()' is now available as function decorator.
  ex::

    class FooTest(unittest.TestCase):
      def test_method1(self)
        @spec("1+1 should be 2")
	def _():
	  ok (1+1) == 2
        @spec("1-1 should be 0")
	def _():
	  ok (1-1) == 0

* [enhance] New assertions: not_file(), not_dir() and not_exist().
  ex::

    ok (".").not_file()         # same as NG (".").is_file()
    ok (__file__).not_dir()     # same as NG (__file__).is_dir()
    ok ("foobar").not_exist()   # same as NG ("foobar").exists()

* [enhance] New assertion: not_match().
  ex::

    ok ("SOS").not_match(r"\d+")  # same as NG ("SOS").matches(r"\d+")

* [enhance] Global provider/releaser functions can take 'self' argument.
  ex::

    def provide_logname(self):
        self._LOGNAME = os.getenv('LOGNAME')
	os.environ['LOGNAME'] = "Haruhi"
	return os.environ['LOGNAME']

    def release_logname(self, value):
        os.environ['LOGNAME'] = self._LOGNAME

* [change] Change not to ignore test classes which name starts with '_'.

* [change] (internal) Move some utility functions to 'util' module.

* [change] (internal) Move '_Context' and '_RunnableContext' classes
into 'util' module.

* [change] (internal) Move 'Color' class into 'util' module

* [change] (internal) Remove 'OUT' variable in 'Reporter' class

* [change] (internal) Move 'TARGET_PATTERN' variable to 'config'

* [bugfix] Fix to clear ImportError after trying to import unittest2


--
regards,
makoto


From andrew.rustytub at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 00:04:11 2011
From: andrew.rustytub at gmail.com (Andrew Evans)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:04:11 -0800
Subject: Announcing Mii (My) Chat
Message-ID: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello I wish to inform the list of a Python Application I am writing
entitled Mii Chat.

What is Mii Chat you ask? It is an IP to IP or IP to Multiple IP
text/voice/video chat client written in Python

Currently the GUI is written in PyQT and could use a complete overhaul (in
progress)

There are a few bugs: Like I couldn't figure out the Threading for the
Video so I am using QTimer.

and the Audio could be improved. But overall it works as expected! I am
happy about it cause I am not the best programmer. I have never been to
school for Comp Science Programming or any university/college for that
matter. I am self taught and consider myself a hobbyist programmer.

It would be great if some one could suggest a library for TCP Nat Traversal.

As  well I am open to any and all suggestions! I appreciate any feedback
*cheers

Andrew Evans

Here is the link

http://code.google.com/p/mii-chat/
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Nov 20 02:22:02 2011
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:22:02 +0000
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
References: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.11.20.07.22.14.820000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:32:18 -0600, nivashno wrote:

> I always thought that xml was very precisely split up into nodes, 
> childnodes, etc, no matter what the whitespace between them was. But 
> apparently not, or am I missing something?

XML allows mixed content (an element's children can be a mixture of text
and elements). Formats such as XHTML wouldn't be possible otherwise.

A validating parser will know from the schema whether an element can
contain mixed content, and can use this knowledge to elide whitespace-only
text nodes within elements which don't have mixed content (however, that
doesn't meant that it will, or even that it should; some applications may
prefer to retain the whitespace in order to preserve formatting).

A non-validating parser (which doesn't use a schema) doesn't know whether
an element contains mixed content, so it has to retain all text nodes in
case they're significant.

The Python standard library doesn't include a validating XML parser.
xmlproc seems to be the preferred validating parser. That has a separate
handle_ignorable_data() method for reporting whitespace-only text nodes
within non-mixed-content elements; the handle_data() method is only called
for "significant" text.



From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 06:23:18 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:23:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2838.1321639492.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6c05cd6f-9adb-4f65-9da7-cd938616da41@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I see. It works.

Thanks,
GZ

On Nov 18, 12:04?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:51 AM, GZ <zyzhu2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
> > all attributes that correspond to a primary key.
>
> > I can write a function like this to get the primary key:
>
> > def get_key(instance_of_record):
> > ? return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)
>
> > However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
> > program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
> > wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
> > with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
> > generator.
>
> (Accidentally sent this to the OP only)
>
> This is exactly what the attrgetter factory function produces.
>
> from operator import attrgetter
> get_key = attrgetter(*key_attrs)
>
> But if your attribute names are variable and arbitrary, I strongly
> recommend you store them in a dict instead. ?Setting them as instance
> attributes risks that they might conflict with the regular attributes
> and methods on your objects.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>
>



From phd at phdru.name  Sun Nov 20 07:19:40 2011
From: phd at phdru.name (Oleg Broytman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:19:40 +0400
Subject: SQLObject 1.2.0
Message-ID: <20111120121940.GC24874@iskra.aviel.ru>

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 1.2.0, the first stable release of branch
1.2 of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/1.2.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

Features & Interface
--------------------

* Strings are treated specially in Select to allow
  Select(['id, 'name'], where='value = 42'). Update allows a string in
  WHERE.

* ForeignKey('Table', refColumn='refcol_id') to allow ForeignKey to
  point to a non-id column; the referred column must be a unique integer
  column.

* delColumn now accepts a ForeignKey's name without 'ID'.

* Support for PostgreSQL 7.* is dropped. The minimal supported version of
  PostgreSQL is 8.1 now.

* Quoting rules changed for PostgreSQL: SQLObject uses E'' escape string
  if the string contains characters escaped with backslash.

* A bug caused by psycopg2 recently added a new boolean not callable
  autocommit attribute was fixed.

* sqlobject.__doc__ and main.__doc__ no longer contain version number.
  Use sqlobject.version or version_info.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            phd at phdru.name
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Sun Nov 20 08:01:15 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:01:15 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?


From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

Hi All,

I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
I am trying to implement a ProgressBar  for this installer. So that the user will come to know the progress of the installation.
I am using pypi progressbar module.
The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.

I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1() updates it to 5%,  func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the console.

My questions are:

1.       Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and powershell.?  As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and writing only in powershell.  !

2.       Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?



Thanks

Nikunj
Bangalore - India

-------------- next part --------------
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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 08:52:03 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:52:03 +1100
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>

Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?

Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.

Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
generate there .MSI.

Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>
> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>
> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>
> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>
> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>
>
>
> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>
> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
> purpose would be to keep ?READ? a temp file for a new entry in it.
>
> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
> console.
>
>
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
> writing only in powershell. ?!
>
> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Nikunj
>
> Bangalore - India
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Nov 20 09:17:34 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:17:34 +0100
Subject: Announcing Mii (My) Chat
In-Reply-To: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jab25v$gb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 20.11.2011 06:04, schrieb Andrew Evans:
> Hello I wish to inform the list of a Python Application I am writing
> entitled Mii Chat.

Your choice of name is most likely to cause trouble. Nintendo has a
trademark on "Mii" as part of the Wii console trademark. In Nintendo's
glossary a Mii is a player's avatar.

Christian



From milleja46 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 09:32:22 2011
From: milleja46 at gmail.com (Joshua Miller)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:32:22 -0500
Subject: Announcing Mii (My) Chat
In-Reply-To: <jab25v$gb$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jab25v$gb$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAKoEMEdGp8Z-puP8MphBwP4crhubxadithLJjGy-Ec6inNH==A@mail.gmail.com>

I have to agree with christian.... Mii is those avatars in the
nintendo wii system....I highly recommend you change the name it might
be a good idea for software but the name will most likely get you in
trouble

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
> Am 20.11.2011 06:04, schrieb Andrew Evans:
>> Hello I wish to inform the list of a Python Application I am writing
>> entitled Mii Chat.
>
> Your choice of name is most likely to cause trouble. Nintendo has a
> trademark on "Mii" as part of the Wii console trademark. In Nintendo's
> glossary a Mii is a player's avatar.
>
> Christian
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Nov 20 10:03:24 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:03:24 +0100
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
In-Reply-To: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <jab4rs$dq2$1@dough.gmane.org>

nivashno, 19.11.2011 22:32:
> I've got this code:
>
> >>> dom = xml.dom.minidom.parse('myfile.xml')
> >>> for testnode in dom.getElementsByTagName('tests')[0].childNodes:
> ...     print testnode
>
> When it's working on this xml:
>
>      <tests>
>        <test>something</test>
>      </tests>
>
> I get the following:
>
> <DOM Text node "u'\n      '">
> <DOM Element: test at 0xaa6bfac>
> <DOM Text node "u'\n    '">
>
> But when it's working on this xml:
>
>      <tests><test>something</test></tests>
>
> I get this:
>
> <DOM Element: test at 0xbc6f1ac>
>
>
> I always thought that xml was very precisely split up into nodes,
> childnodes, etc, no matter what the whitespace between them was. But
> apparently not, or am I missing something?

You already got some answers to this question. I'd just like to point you 
to the xml.etree.(c)ElementTree packages, which are substantially faster 
and easier to use than minidom.

Stefan



From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:15:05 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:15:05 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
Message-ID: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org>

I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.


My usecase is following:


success = False
try:
    import lib1_version1 as lib1
    import lib2_version1 as lib2
    success = True
except ImportError:
    pass
if not success:
    try:
        import lib1_version2 as lib1
        import lib2_version2 as lib2
        success = True
    except importError:
        pass
if not success:
    . . .



Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory


At this moment this is more a thought excercise than a real issue, but I
thought that perhaps somebody encountered this kind of issue and had an
idea how to deal with such situations.

One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use
the next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.



From renesd at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:25:07 2011
From: renesd at gmail.com (illume)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyGameZine launched.  See http://pygame.org for details.
Message-ID: <16451527.473.1321802707273.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqan20>

Hey ya,

today we launched the first issue of PyGameZine.

For more info, please see the pygame website: 
    http://www.pygame.org/


cheers!


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:39:36 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31034729.395.1321803576950.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prlm15>

del sys.modules['my-module']

However if your module imported other modules, they'll still be there.
If there are references to objects your module created, they'll still be there.

A better option IMO is to use imp.find_module and then import.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:39:36 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31034729.395.1321803576950.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prlm15>

del sys.modules['my-module']

However if your module imported other modules, they'll still be there.
If there are references to objects your module created, they'll still be there.

A better option IMO is to use imp.find_module and then import.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov 20 10:46:44 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Nov 2011 15:46:44 GMT
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:15:05 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:

> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.

Not really. Python modules are objects, like everything else in Python, 
and can only be deleted when the garbage collector is certain that 
nothing else is keeping a reference to it. So long as any object, 
anywhere, no matter how deep in your code or in third-party code, has a 
reference to the module, you can't force it to be deleted.

You can remove it from your application's namespace:

import math
result = math.sin(1.2345)
del math


This, however, is not sufficient to free the module, as it is cached. You 
can (but shouldn't!) do this as well:

import sys
del sys.modules['math']

But please don't delete modules from the cache unless (1) you really need 
to, and (2) you are prepared for the consequences. "Just in case the 
library uses too much memory" is not a good reason for deleting the 
module.

The problem is, if you delete the module from the cache, but some other 
part of your application still holds onto a reference to the module 
(directly, or indirectly), the next time you import the library, Python 
will not use the cached version but will create a second, independent 
copy of the module in memory. Instead of saving memory, you have just 
DOUBLED the amount of memory used by the library. You may also run into 
bizarre, hard to debug problems due to breaking the "modules are 
singletons" promise.

Trust me, this opens the door to a world of pain.


> success = False
> try:
>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>     success = True
> except ImportError:
>     pass
> if not success:
>     try:
>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>         success = True
>     except importError:
>         pass


Can you mix lib1_version1 and lib2_version2? If so, the best way of doing 
this would be:

try:
    import lib1_version1 as lib1
except ImportError:
    try:
        import lib1_version2 as lib1
    except ImportError:
        # Last chance. If this fails, it is a fatal error.
        import lib1_version3 as lib1

And then do the same for lib2.


> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use the
> next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.

What if the libs change between one run of your program and the next?


-- 
Steven


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:39:28 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:39:28 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven, Mika,

Thanks for your answers.

It's always good to know which options exist.
It makes it easier to choose the right one depending on the situation.

On 11/20/2011 04:46 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:15:05 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:
> 
>> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
>> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.
> 
> 
> You can remove it from your application's namespace:
> 
> import math
> result = math.sin(1.2345)
> del math
> 
> 
> This, however, is not sufficient to free the module, as it is cached. You 
> can (but shouldn't!) do this as well:
> 
> import sys
> del sys.modules['math']
> 
> 
> The problem is, if you delete the module from the cache, but some other 
> part of your application still holds onto a reference to the module 
> (directly, or indirectly), the next time you import the library, Python 
> will not use the cached version but will create a second, independent 
> copy of the module in memory. Instead of saving memory, you have just 
> DOUBLED the amount of memory used by the library. You may also run into 
> bizarre, hard to debug problems due to breaking the "modules are 
> singletons" promise.
> 
in my case only one module (the one with the try import statements)
would import these libraries.


>> success = False
>> try:
>>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>>     success = True
>> except ImportError:
>>     pass
>> if not success:
>>     try:
>>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>>         success = True
>>     except importError:
>>         pass
> 
> 
> Can you mix lib1_version1 and lib2_version2? If so, the best way of doing 
> this would be:
> 
> try:
>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
> except ImportError:
>     try:
>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>     except ImportError:
>         # Last chance. If this fails, it is a fatal error.
>         import lib1_version3 as lib1
> 
No mixing would not be possible.

So either I need the first two libs or the second two.

> 
>> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
>> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use the
>> next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.
> 
> What if the libs change between one run of your program and the next?
>

Well that's why wondered whether there is a dynamic solution.
However if I'd like to force a rescan I could always just delete the
config file.


I think I'll look at imp.find_module as Miki suggested.
In my case it should probably be enough to know whether a group of
modules exist.
Theoretically a module could exist, but fail to import but if in this
rare situations one of the libraries stays in memory it wouldn't be the
biggest issue.

I'd just like to avoid that (this is not my use case, but just a (crazy)
example) TKInter, wxWidgets, and pyQt were all loaded even if due I'd
use only one of them due to the lack of other packages







From shilparani9030 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:40:47 2011
From: shilparani9030 at gmail.com (SHILPA)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:40:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: XXX HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
Message-ID: <53016838-1333-45fd-a347-a37220fba937@s35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>


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From shilparani9030 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:40:50 2011
From: shilparani9030 at gmail.com (SHILPA)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:40:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: XXX HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
Message-ID: <6449927a-d143-463d-b34e-5796b419879e@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>


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From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Sun Nov 20 11:40:58 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:40:58 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Thanks for reply.
Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ). 
Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am  using Python.

I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
 
The current look of the installer is completely command line based.


-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
To: Badjatya, Nikunj
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?

Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.

Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
generate there .MSI.

Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>
> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>
> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>
> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>
> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>
>
>
> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>
> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>
> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
> console.
>
>
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
> writing only in powershell. ?!
>
> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Nikunj
>
> Bangalore - India
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:53:06 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:53:06 +1100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
> No mixing would not be possible.
>
> So either I need the first two libs or the second two.
>

I wonder, can you make the first one import the second one? That
automatically defines your dependency right there, and may make things
clearer - you import lib1_version1, and if that fails, you import
lib1_version2; if either succeeds, you know the matching lib2 is
available.

ChrisA


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 12:21:00 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:21:00 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jabctt$4c8$1@dough.gmane.org>

I forgot to mention, that this is at the moment more a thought
experiment, than a real need.


On 11/20/2011 05:53 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> No mixing would not be possible.
>>
>> So either I need the first two libs or the second two.
>>
> 
> I wonder, can you make the first one import the second one? That
> automatically defines your dependency right there, and may make things
> clearer - you import lib1_version1, and if that fails, you import
> lib1_version2; if either succeeds, you know the matching lib2 is
> available.
> 

At the moment I will do exactly what you suggested. I will make sure,
that always the first import fails.

But I wanted to learn more what is possible and which potential can of
worms I would open if I wanted to unimport a library of which I'm sure
that nobody is currently referencing (or refering? Not sure about my
English here) to.



From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 13:06:44 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:06:44 +0100
Subject: scraping a tumblr.com archive page
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I want to extract the URLs of all the posts on a tumblr blog. Let's
take for instance this blog: http://loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/archive .
If I download this page with a script, there are only 50 posts in the
HTML. If you scroll down in your browser to the end of the archive,
the browser will dynamically load newer and newer posts.

How to scrape such a dynamic page?

Thanks,

Laszlo


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Nov 20 13:18:21 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:18:21 -0500
Subject: scraping a tumblr.com archive page
In-Reply-To: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXi35SpyeKVXfni=BeEUqCZNo6bAUx9C_M56=X0RP3qsww@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to extract the URLs of all the posts on a tumblr blog. Let's
> take for instance this blog: http://loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/archive .
> If I download this page with a script, there are only 50 posts in the
> HTML. If you scroll down in your browser to the end of the archive,
> the browser will dynamically load newer and newer posts.
>
> How to scrape such a dynamic page?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Laszlo
> --

The page isn't really that dynamic- HTTP doesn't allow for that.
Scrolling down the page triggers some Javascript. That Javascript
sends some HTTP requests to the server, which returns more HTML, which
gets stuck into the middle of the page. If you take the time to
monitor your network traffic using a tool like Firebug, you should be
able to figure out the pattern in the requests for more content. Just
send those same requests yourself and parse the results.


From andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 15:02:11 2011
From: andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:02:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
Message-ID: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

Hello List,

How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?

For example,

I would like to send this function:
def addition(x,y):
   return x+y
and have the socket server perform the operation and send is back to
the end user.

Question 2:
On that same server, I want a user to be able to pass a file to the
server along with code.  What is the best way to pass file to the
server?


Thank you for any suggestions or resources you can provide.

Andrew


From spartan.the at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 15:44:26 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:44:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ae6e37a5-9d8d-41cc-8204-2bdd28b489e1@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 3:36?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
...
> It just seems mind-boggling to me that PYTHONPATH doesn't preempt
> everything else.

I was surprised too, but this issue is widespread. Best explained
here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/tahoe-lafs/+bug/821000/comments/0
Quote:

"
The crux of the problem is that the Python documentation says:
  "The PYTHONPATH variable can be set to a list of paths that will be
added to the beginning of sys.path."
http://docs.python.org/install/index.html#modifying-python-s-search-path
This is true with standard distutils, false with setuptools, false
with distribute...
"

Phillip J. Eby (setuptools guy) was religious about "easy installed"
packages over anything else to comment on this issue 3 years ago:

"
This behavior change is unacceptable, as it makes it impossible to
ensure that
an easy_install-ed package takes precedence over an existing,
distutils-installed version of the same package in the same PYTHONPATH
directory.

Please note that that is the intended default behavior of
easy_install: if you
wish to override it, you should use --multi-version, and explicitly
select the
egg(s) to be added to sys.path instead.
"
(http://bugs.python.org/setuptools/issue53)


From sorsorday at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 16:16:26 2011
From: sorsorday at gmail.com (Herman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:16:26 -0800
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
Message-ID: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>

What is so special about the "new" operator?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 16:34:28 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:34:28 +1100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
In-Reply-To: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqsDsbVY+Tdwf5R=96ur1HuNAsw=DU2Zt-caJaQTxBV1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello List,
>
> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
>
> For example,
>
> I would like to send this function:
> def addition(x,y):
> ? return x+y
> and have the socket server perform the operation and send is back to
> the end user.
>
> Question 2:
> On that same server, I want a user to be able to pass a file to the
> server along with code. ?What is the best way to pass file to the
> server?

The easiest way is to write an HTTP server (Python has some tools that
will make this easy) and use an HTML form, which can do file uploads
as well as accept keyed-in code.

However, you will run into some fairly major security issues. You're
accepting code across the internet and running it. Python does not
protect you against malicious users reading files from your hard disk
or, worse, modifying those files. This sort of thing can ONLY be used
in a trusted environment - a local network on which you know
everything that's happening.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 20 16:41:02 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:41:02 -0500
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
In-Reply-To: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jabs5p$6i2$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/20/2011 4:16 PM, Herman wrote:
> What is so special about the "new" operator?

There is no 'new' operator in Python. Perhaps you are thinking of 
javascript or maybe jave or ...?

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Sun Nov 20 16:44:25 2011
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:44:25 +0100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>

Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com> writes:

> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
[...]

Look up the "exec" statement, the server can use it to execute any code
received from the client as a string.

Note "any code", though; exec runs in no sandbox and if a malicious
client defines addition(1, 2) to execute os.system('sudo rm -rf /'), the
server will happily do just that.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Nov 20 18:40:33 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:40:33 +1100
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
References: <mailman.2875.1321824124.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lira747i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Herman <sorsorday at gmail.com> writes:

> What is so special about the "new" operator?

It's special because Python doesn't have it. Can you refer us with a URL
to the place where you've seen Python code containing a ?new? operator?

-- 
 \       ?Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into |
  `\   hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.? ?Jesus, as quoted in Luke |
_o__)                                                             12:5 |
Ben Finney


From ralf at systemexit.de  Sun Nov 20 19:16:05 2011
From: ralf at systemexit.de (Ralf Schmitt)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:16:05 +0100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] pypiserver 0.4.0 - minimal pypi server
Message-ID: <87ehx2ba9m.fsf@myhost.localnet>

Hi,

I've just uploaded pypiserver 0.4.0 to the python package index.

pypiserver is a minimal PyPI compatible server. It can be used to serve
a set of packages and eggs to easy_install or pip.

pypiserver is easy to install (i.e. just easy_install pypiserver). It
doesn't have any external dependencies.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pypiserver/ should contain enough
information to easily get you started running your own PyPI server in a
few minutes.

The code is available on github: https://github.com/schmir/pypiserver


Changes in version 0.4.0
-------------------------
- add functionality to manage package updates
- updated documentation
- python 3 support has been added

-- 
Cheers,
Ralf


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Nov 20 19:27:59 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:27:59 +0100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
In-Reply-To: <8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <jac5ue$2bs$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 20.11.2011 22:44, schrieb Hrvoje Niksic:
> Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
> [...]
> 
> Look up the "exec" statement, the server can use it to execute any code
> received from the client as a string.
> 
> Note "any code", though; exec runs in no sandbox and if a malicious
> client defines addition(1, 2) to execute os.system('sudo rm -rf /'), the
> server will happily do just that.

It's possible to sandbox Python code, see
http://docs.python.org/library/rexec.html,
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/496746-restricted-safe-eval/ or TTW
code (through the web) in Zope. However the sandboxing is limited and
you really need to know what you are doing.



From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 19:46:14 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:46:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
Message-ID: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hello:

I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
support dynamic programming.

Can anyone list a good introduction to the files found in the source
code? I have been poking around the source code for a little bit and
there is a lot there. So, I was hoping someone could point me to the
"good parts". I am also wondering whether some of the code was
generated because I see state transition tables, which I doubt someone
built by hand.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It will be cool to see how the
interpreter works internally. I am still wonder whether designing the
language (going on 4 months now) will be harder than implementing it.

Thanks,
Travis Parks


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 20 20:28:14 2011
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:28:14 +0000
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
In-Reply-To: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jac9ff$le0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 20/11/11 21:16, Herman wrote:
> What is so special about the "new" operator?

Assuming you mean the __new__() method?

__new__() gets called when the class is being constructed, it returns 
the new instance. It is the real Pyhon constructor.

As opposed to __init__() which is called after the instance has been 
created. It is not really a constructor but an initializer. (Even though 
most of us treat it as a constructor!)

But you should never see code like

meat = new Spam().

it should be

meat = Spam()

Which calls __new__() followed by __init__().

HTH
-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/



From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:09:46 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:09:46 +0100
Subject: scraping a tumblr.com archive page
In-Reply-To: <CAMuTYXi35SpyeKVXfni=BeEUqCZNo6bAUx9C_M56=X0RP3qsww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMuTYXi35SpyeKVXfni=BeEUqCZNo6bAUx9C_M56=X0RP3qsww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMmPXnKJV23v0GWkqPxeX-1XUh4Qju-mfpABF-tzs+KZAA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the answer. Finally I found an API for this task:
http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/api/v2#posts . It returns the required
data in JSON format.

Laszlo

> The page isn't really that dynamic- HTTP doesn't allow for that.
> Scrolling down the page triggers some Javascript. That Javascript
> sends some HTTP requests to the server, which returns more HTML, which
> gets stuck into the middle of the page. If you take the time to
> monitor your network traffic using a tool like Firebug, you should be
> able to figure out the pattern in the requests for more content. Just
> send those same requests yourself and parse the results.


From loluengo at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:16:58 2011
From: loluengo at gmail.com (Lorenzo)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <90f6dc69-1b8a-49d7-aa00-662c6baefda5@n14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 11:51?pm, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and have managed to build Python 2.7 with it.
>
> The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.
>
> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
>
> Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:
>
> http://repl.it/
>
> Carl Banks

It definitely looks great!!


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:33:21 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoW_EOvQ44fZDqQ+SAf5GgGZpN2m+DZJV8J2iCbmMxVOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.

If you want to use Python as a reference for designing your language,
look at the documentation. It's pretty decent on the subject of
language specs (you may find yourself reading a lot of PEPs as well as
the "normal" docs).

But for actual code - you may want to look at Cython. I've never used
it, but it compiles Python code to C (IIRC); that's more likely to be
what you're after.

What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement
of when it's right to use this language above others. For example,
Python is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.

ChrisA


From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:55:21 2011
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:55:21 -0800
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_q3SCrtjiPtyphQ0aLmQZqQJeJ4_GctEuXnHb8khOC3iw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.
>

FWIW, comprehensions are often nicer than lambdas.

You might want to check out PyPy.  It's written in a more flexible
implementation language than CPython, and facilitates writing languages -
IOW, PyPy is more than just Python written in Python.
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 23:26:30 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:26:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<mailman.2881.1321835300.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4e7f81b4-f394-40fa-91ff-fcc6a27d9a1c@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 10:27?am, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
> It's possible to sandbox Python code, see
> http://docs.python.org/library/rexec.html

Although this has been deprecated since 2.6 & removed from 3.x (and
cautioned against for as long as I've used Python).

PyPy provides some sandboxing functionality that might be useful here:
http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/sandbox.html




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 23:58:33 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:58:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <81b06056-9928-4871-8452-feb681bbc0d0@a3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 1:15?am, Gelonida N <gelon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
> it's occupied ?memory and the related shared libraries are released.
>
> My usecase is following:
>
> success = False
> try:
> ? ? import lib1_version1 as lib1
> ? ? import lib2_version1 as lib2
> ? ? success = True
> except ImportError:
> ? ? pass
> if not success:
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? import lib1_version2 as lib1
> ? ? ? ? import lib2_version2 as lib2
> ? ? ? ? success = True
> ? ? except importError:
> ? ? ? ? pass
> if not success:
> ? ? . . .
>
> Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
> then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory

A simple way would be to create packages for each version that import
the two dependencies:

  /version1/__init__.py:
    import lib1_version1 as lib1
    import lib2_version2 as lib2

  /version2/__init__.py:
    import lib1_version2 as lib1
    import lib2_version2 as lib2

Then create a single module to handle the importing:

  /libraries.py:

  __all__ = ['lib1', 'lib2', 'version']

  version = None
  _import_errs = []

  try:
    from version1 import lib1, lib2
    version = 1
  except ImportError as (err,):
    _import_errs.append(err)

  if version is None:
    try:
      from version2 import lib1, lib2
      version = 2
    except ImportError as (err,):
      _import_errs.append(err)

  if version is None:
    _format_errs = (('v%d: %s' % (ver, err)) for ver, err in
enumerate(_import_errs, 1))
    raise ImportError('Unable to import libraries: %s' %
list(_format_errs))


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 00:04:50 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:04:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2822.1321594000.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja66d8$fjn$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <0296a730-c952-4f14-99ca-a63a9fe96096@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 19, 3:59?am, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Yes. I tried running it. Got nowhere.

Did you run it from the shell? Did it spit out any errors?


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 00:09:24 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2841.1321655531.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <70f026ae-9a6d-42de-880d-c1e430275e7c@13g2000prw.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 19, 8:31?am, Stephen Hansen <me+list/pyt... at ixokai.io> wrote:
> Yes, its moderately annoying that you have to do this yourself; maybe
> you wouldn't if you installed 64-bit python, but I can't be sure. Maybe
> it has nothing to do with 32 or 64-bitness at all and my guess is wrong.

I've got the 32 bit version of 2.7 & the 64 bit of 3.2 installed under
Windows 7. I'm not seeing 'Edit with IDLE' options, instead I get
'Edit with Pythonwin' from the 32bit installation.

I'm also using ActivePython, though. I can honestly say I've never had
an issue under Windows with it.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 21 00:44:56 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 05:44:56 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2884.1321842811.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
> languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement of
> when it's right to use this language above others. For example, Python
> is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.

"Python will save the world"

http://proyectojuanchacon.blogspot.com/2010/07/saving-world-with-python.html




-- 
Steven


From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 00:46:35 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:46:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face of
	exceptions
Message-ID: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Here is my situation. A parent object owns a list of files (or other
objects with a close() method). The close() method can sometimes fail
and raise an exception. When the parent object's close() method is
called, it needs to close down as many files it owns as possible, even
if the close() function of some files fail. I also want to re-raise at
least one of the original exceptions so that the outer program can
handle it.

What I come up is something like this, suppose L is a list that holds
all the file objects.

is_closed = set()
try:
    for f in L:
        f.close()
        is_closed.add(f)
except:
    try:
        raise #re-raise immediately, keeping context intact
    finally:
        for f in L: # close the rest of the file objects
            if f not in is_closed:
                 try:
                     f.close()
                 except:
                      pass

It will re-raise the first exception and preserve the context and
close as many other files as possible while ignoring any further
exceptions.

But this looks really awkward. And in the case that two files fail to
close, I am not sure the best strategy is to ignore the second
failure.

What is a better way of handling such situation?

Thanks,
gz



From nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 01:28:03 2011
From: nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com (Nizamov Shawkat)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:28:03 +0100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
In-Reply-To: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAFwQ1SuYjDhPW_px1h2Q85NrEqkYQp9A37=C2UrX5br+=em54A@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/20 Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com>:
> Hello List,
>
> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
>
> For example,
>
> I would like to send this function:
> def addition(x,y):
> ? return x+y
> and have the socket server perform the operation and send is back to
> the end user.
>
> Question 2:
> On that same server, I want a user to be able to pass a file to the
> server along with code. ?What is the best way to pass file to the
> server?
>
>
> Thank you for any suggestions or resources you can provide.
>
> Andrew
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Check for Pyro - it allows creation of objects on client side while
running them on server side. Pyro makes this process almost
transparent using proxy objects.

Hope it helps,
S.Nizamov


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 01:28:55 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:28:55 +1100
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>

So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?

Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Thanks for reply.
> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>
> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>
> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>
> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>
> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
> generate there .MSI.
>
> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>
>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>
>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>
>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>
>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>
>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>
>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>> console.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>
>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Nikunj
>>
>> Bangalore - India
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 01:48:45 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:48:45 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2884.1321842811.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoV=2phM383v-iMKqn2TS3GqOQYOSkKyV9-D41agUAn2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
>> languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement of
>> when it's right to use this language above others. For example, Python
>> is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.
>
> "Python will save the world"
>
> http://proyectojuanchacon.blogspot.com/2010/07/saving-world-with-python.html

I don't think Python has a hard disk big enough to save all of it...

ChrisA


From john.37 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:15:21 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:15:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<5dfa9add-582f-4219-8d78-01239f80525e@p5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <066c8586-dd11-4982-ab3a-5ff77db46b90@a3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 20, 8:42?am, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sa... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 9:06?am, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 10:50?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
> > > sword wrote:
> > > > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > > > main.py looks like this:
> > > > #main.py
> > > > importlogging
> > > > fromloggingimport Filter
> > > > import a
> > > > import b
>
> > > >logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > > > root =logging.getLogger()
> > > > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > > > would pass this filter
>
> > > > logger =logging.getLogger("main")
> > > > logger.debug("main process")
> > > > a.print_log()
> > > > b.print_log()
>
> > > > ####
> > > > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> > > Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> > > $ cat demo.py
> > > importlogging
> > > class Filter(logging.Filter):
> > > ? ? def filter(self, record):
> > > ? ? ? ? print "applying filter", self.name
> > > ? ? ? ? return True
>
> > >logging.basicConfig()
>
> > > loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> > > for logger in loggers:
> > > ? ? logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> > > [handler] =logging.getLogger().handlers
> > > handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))
>
> > > for logger in loggers:
> > > ? ? logger.critical("whatever")
> > > $ python demo.py
> > > applying filter filter at root
> > > applying filter filter at handler
> > > CRITICAL:root:whatever
> > > applying filter filter at a
> > > applying filter filter at handler
> > > CRITICAL:a:whatever
> > > applying filter fil... at a.b
> > > applying filter filter at handler
> > > CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> > > $
>
> > > As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> > > and of the handler(s) are applied.
>
> > Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
> > different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
> > corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
> > out only the interested info from it before.
>
> Or you can add a filter to the handler (but then you can't use
> basicConfig() to configure it - you need to do it explicitly).
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip


Thank you! Maybe I should find out another way to manipulate the log,
like wrap the getLogger function and add the filter at the first
time :)


From ysh1989 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:32:29 2011
From: ysh1989 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6aG66IiqIOa4uA==?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: request of "real timeout" in socket.read
Message-ID: <dcaf9012-6f6f-48f5-a30e-f2f59b89e48c@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi, few days ago I was confused with the behavior of socket.read when
timeout is used -- that the lifespan of the operation often is longer
than the time I've specified. So I go to python.org and get the source
code of python.
Yet I had read some lines of code from the Python-2.7.2/Modules/
socketmodule.c, and I found that the function was implemented in
internal_select by poll or select, this function will block at most a
span of timeout, so whenever it is called, another timeout time has to
be wasted if there's nothing coming.
So what if to change the code like this:
now = time(NULL); //may be other function
if( s->sock_timeout >= now + .5 )
    return 1;

timeout = s->sock_timeout + .5 - now;
/*
... poll or select
*/

here s->sock_timeout is a particular moment rather than a time span,
or:
s->sock_timeout = time(NULL) + timeout;
when init.


From john.37 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:33:47 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:33:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting problem about uuid1
Message-ID: <b7d765ef-9833-4f31-8107-e2461b06c9c0@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

My colleague asks me an interesting problem about uuid library in
python. In multicore system with multiprocessing, is it possible to
get the duplicated uuid with uuid1?

I just check the RFC 4122, and I can't find anything about multicore
environment. Python's uuid1 method generates the uuid with time stamp,
mac address, and algorithm to gen random numbers. So, I think it's
possible to get the duplicate uuid1 at the same time.

What about you? Hope for your reply


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Mon Nov 21 02:41:02 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:41:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and
> have managed to build Python 2.7 with it. 
> 
> The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.
> 
> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
> 
> Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:
> 
> http://repl.it/

    	Very interesting.  Is there a simple way to add third-party 
libraries to these?  I assume that for pure-Python modules you could 
just put a python file in the appropriate place and import it, but what 
about if you wanted a web app that used numpy or something?  Is that 
feasible?

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From kai.diefenbach at iqpp.de  Mon Nov 21 03:11:35 2011
From: kai.diefenbach at iqpp.de (Kai)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:11:35 +0100
Subject: LFS 0.6 beta 1 released
Message-ID: <jad13n$hjf$2@dough.gmane.org>

Hi,

I'm happy to announce the release of LFS 0.6 beta 1.

LFS is an online shop based on Django and jQuery.

If you want to read more information please refer to:

http://www.getlfs.com/released-06-beta-1

Thanks
Kai




From vincent.vandevyvre at swing.be  Mon Nov 21 03:56:39 2011
From: vincent.vandevyvre at swing.be (Vincent Vande Vyvre)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:56:39 +0100
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face
	of	exceptions
In-Reply-To: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA1247.8060500@swing.be>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20111121/0217e525/attachment.html>

From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 04:07:53 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:07:53 +1100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGeKkv4PbdST8Xc+_yJo6MMKV5obvz9FrPrE-maBp+YCjg@mail.gmail.com>

Just compile your python to C

:]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:41 PM, OKB (not okblacke)
<brenNOSPAMbarn at nobrenspambarn.net> wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>
>> Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and
>> have managed to build Python 2.7 with it.
>>
>> The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.
>>
>> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
>>
>> Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:
>>
>> http://repl.it/
>
> ? ? ? ?Very interesting. ?Is there a simple way to add third-party
> libraries to these? ?I assume that for pure-Python modules you could
> just put a python file in the appropriate place and import it, but what
> about if you wanted a web app that used numpy or something? ?Is that
> feasible?
>
> --
> --OKB (not okblacke)
> Brendan Barnwell
> "Do not follow where the path may lead. ?Go, instead, where there is
> no path, and leave a trail."
> ? ? ? ?--author unknown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 21 05:11:17 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<5dfa9add-582f-4219-8d78-01239f80525e@p5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<066c8586-dd11-4982-ab3a-5ff77db46b90@a3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2169ee84-a59a-4d52-977b-00200deffc1a@m19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 7:15?am, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you! Maybe I should find out another way to manipulate the log,
> like wrap the getLogger function and add the filter at the first
> time :)

If you are using Python 2.7, 3.2 or later, you can use dictionary-
based configuration - it's fairly painless.

http://docs.python.org/library/logging.config.html#logging.config.dictConfig

If you are using an earlier version of Python, the logutils project
includes the same dictionary-based configuration logic.

http://code.google.com/p/logutils/

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Mon Nov 21 05:44:17 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:44:17 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D3E9@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Yes I am executing powershell commands into virtual machines.

Will have a look at WiX.

But please, Answer my questions:

>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1.       Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>> powershell.?  As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>> writing only in powershell.  !
>>
>> 2.       Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?

Thanks
Nikunj

-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:59 AM
To: Badjatya, Nikunj
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?

Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Thanks for reply.
> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>
> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>
> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>
> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>
> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
> generate there .MSI.
>
> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>
>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>
>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>
>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>
>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>
>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>
>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>> console.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>
>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Nikunj
>>
>> Bangalore - India
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 21 06:39:20 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:39:20 +0100
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
In-Reply-To: <b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA3868.8010905@sequans.com>

sword wrote:
> On Nov 16, 7:40 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> sword wrote:
>>     
>>> The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
>>> contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.
>>>       
>>> Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
>>> #file: a.py
>>> import logging
>>>       
>>> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
>>> def print_log():
>>>     logger.debug("I'm module a")
>>>       
>>> #file: b.py just like a.py
>>> import logging
>>> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
>>> def print_log():
>>>     logger.debug("I'm module b")
>>>       
>>> #file: main.py
>>> import logging
>>> from logging import Filter
>>> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
>>> logger=logging.getLogger("main")
>>> logger.debug("This is main process")
>>> logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))
>>>       
>>> And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
>>> log only. But it turned out that all logs there.  Is it the problem of
>>> root logger?
>>>       
>> Hi,
>>
>> First of all, in the code you provided we can't see where you import a &
>> b, and when you call their respective print_log method.
>> Secondly,Filter("a") would allow only the "a" log events, not forbid
>> them. quoting the docs: "if name is specified, it names a logger which,
>> together with its children, will have its events allowed through the
>> filter."
>>
>> As for your problem it may come from the fact that you applied the
>> filter to the 'main' logger, while you probably want to add the filter
>> to the *root* logger. Your current hierarchy is
>>
>> root
>>   - main
>>   - a
>>   - b
>>
>> events fired from 'a' will be handled by the root logger, not the main.
>> root = logging.getLogger()
>> root.addFilter('main')
>> root.addFilter('a')
>> root.addFilter('b')
>>
>> JM
>>     
>
> Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> main.py looks like this:
> #main.py
> import logging
> from logging import Filter
> import a
> import b
>
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> root = logging.getLogger()
> root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> would pass this filter
>
> logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> logger.debug("main process")
> a.print_log()
> b.print_log()
>
> ####
> And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>   
You need to add you filter to the handler(s) of the root logger, not the 
root logger itself.

Filters to loggger object are applied only when the log event is raised, 
i.e. when one of the logging method error, info, warning, debug is called.
In your case, log events are raised by other loggers than the root 
logger, so its filter will not apply.

However any filter applied to the root *handlers* will be applied to any 
log processed by the handler, including log event raised by sub-logger.

root.handlers[-1].addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg

JM

Quoting http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#filter-objects

"Note that filters attached to handlers are consulted whenever an event is emitted by the handler, whereas filters attached to loggers are consulted whenever an event is logged to the handler (using debug(), info(), etc.) This means that events which have been generated by descendant loggers will not be filtered by a logger?s filter setting, unless the filter has also been applied to those descendant loggers."





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Nov 21 07:09:11 2011
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:09:11 -0500
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face of
	exceptions
References: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jadf1g$hpp$1@speranza.aioe.org>

GZ wrote:
> Here is my situation. A parent object owns a list of files (or other
> objects with a close() method). The close() method can sometimes 
fail
> and raise an exception. When the parent object's close() method is
> called, it needs to close down as many files it owns as possible, 
even
> if the close() function of some files fail. I also want to re-raise 
at
> least one of the original exceptions so that the outer program can
> handle it.
[ ... ]
> 
> It will re-raise the first exception and preserve the context and
> close as many other files as possible while ignoring any further
> exceptions.
> 
> But this looks really awkward. And in the case that two files fail 
to
> close, I am not sure the best strategy is to ignore the second
> failure.

I imagine you could save any caught exception instances in a list and 
study them later.

	Mel.



From ahsanbagwan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 07:13:29 2011
From: ahsanbagwan at gmail.com (sl33k)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:13:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Format the ouput in my python code
Message-ID: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

I am printing the numbers from 1 to 100. In that, I want to display
multiples of 3,5 and of both as mulof3, mul0f5 and mulof3and5
respectively.

 I am getting the output I want but I would like to format the output
to print only 10 number per line. How do I go about doing this?

for i in range(1, 101):
    if i % 3 == 0:
        if i % 5 == 0:
            print 'mulof3and5',
        else:
            print 'mulof3',
    elif i % 5 == 0:
        print 'mulof5',
    else:
        print i



From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Mon Nov 21 07:27:47 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:27:47 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGe7P+ffPOPkOCAYp7+vDCUS6fpwxSzVurWfXFGOAhtz-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D3E9@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGe7P+ffPOPkOCAYp7+vDCUS6fpwxSzVurWfXFGOAhtz-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D401@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hey Thanks. Will do that.

Just a question in general.  Is it possible that we have opened one file in r+ mode ( file1.txt ). We have 2 threads, thread1 will continuously only read the file in a loop. Thread2 will only update the data in the file. Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing ) into that file by their own file i/o mechanism. 
Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different processes one is updating and other is reading ..? Will this work in practical and what can be the complications ?  



-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:23 PM
To: Badjatya, Nikunj
Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

WiX will manage all the progress bar stuff for you.

Just wrap it all in

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:44 PM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Yes I am executing powershell commands into virtual machines.
>
> Will have a look at WiX.
>
> But please, Answer my questions:
>
>>> My questions are:
>>>
>>> 1. ? ? ? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>
>>> 2. ? ? ? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>
> Thanks
> Nikunj
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:59 AM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?
>
> Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for reply.
>> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
>> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>>
>> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>>
>> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
>> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
>> Cc: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>>
>> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>>
>> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
>> generate there .MSI.
>>
>> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>>> To: python-list at python.org
>>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>>
>>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>>
>>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>>
>>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>>
>>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>>
>>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>>
>>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>>> console.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My questions are:
>>>
>>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>
>>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nikunj
>>>
>>> Bangalore - India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>



From santosdosreis at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 08:05:30 2011
From: santosdosreis at gmail.com (Jayson Santos)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:05:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: New memcached module
Message-ID: <9f3e0c68-3057-4a65-90f8-5e05f82c5aae@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hi guys, I have created a pure python module [1] to work with
memcached in binary protocol with SASL authentication.
I need some contributors or people to discuss some idead about it,
anyone is free to contact me, any help will be appreciated.
Thank You
Jayson Reis

[1] https://github.com/jaysonsantos/python-binary-memcached


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 21 08:06:18 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:06:18 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ECA4CCA.5050308@sequans.com>

Gelonida N wrote:
> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.
>
>
> My usecase is following:
>
>
> success = False
> try:
>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>     success = True
> except ImportError:
>     pass
> if not success:
>     try:
>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>         success = True
>     except importError:
>         pass
> if not success:
>     . . .
>
>
>
> Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
> then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory
>
>
> At this moment this is more a thought excercise than a real issue, but I
> thought that perhaps somebody encountered this kind of issue and had an
> idea how to deal with such situations.
>
> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use
> the next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.
>
>   
Short answer for unimporting modules : Not possible (yes there is a long 
one :o) ).

One approach to your problem is to test for module existence before 
importing any module.

import imp

def impVersion(version)
    try:
        imp.find_module('lib1_version%s' % version)
        imp.find_module('lib2_version%s' % version)
    except ImportError:
        raise
    else:
        lib1 = __import__('lib1_version%s' % version)
        lib2 = __import__('lib2_version%s' % version)

# using a for loop to avoid to many nested try statement
for version in [1,2,3,4]:
    try:
        impVersion(version)
    except ImportError:
        continue
    break

if not lib1 or not lib2:
    # no lib imported
    pass

Using this code allows you to import your library only if all conditions 
are met, preventing you from rolling back in case of error.

Jean-Michel


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 08:08:29 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:08:29 +1100
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D401@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D3E9@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGe7P+ffPOPkOCAYp7+vDCUS6fpwxSzVurWfXFGOAhtz-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D401@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGc0UAjCib6egB2Wonn+SghBj5qkcPwpxNE=_SAmDtQE9g@mail.gmail.com>

New thread!

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:27 PM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Hey Thanks. Will do that.
>
> Just a question in general. ?Is it possible that we have opened one file in r+ mode ( file1.txt ). We have 2 threads, thread1 will continuously only read the file in a loop. Thread2 will only update the data in the file. Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing ) into that file by their own file i/o mechanism.
> Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different processes one is updating and other is reading ..? Will this work in practical and what can be the complications ?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:23 PM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> WiX will manage all the progress bar stuff for you.
>
> Just wrap it all in
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:44 PM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Yes I am executing powershell commands into virtual machines.
>>
>> Will have a look at WiX.
>>
>> But please, Answer my questions:
>>
>>>> My questions are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. ? ? ? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>>
>>>> 2. ? ? ? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Nikunj
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:59 AM
>> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
>> Cc: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>> So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?
>>
>> Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for reply.
>>> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
>>> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>>>
>>> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>>>
>>> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
>>> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
>>> Cc: python-list at python.org
>>> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>>
>>> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>>>
>>> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>>>
>>> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
>>> generate there .MSI.
>>>
>>> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>>>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>>>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>>>> To: python-list at python.org
>>>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>>>
>>>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>>>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>>>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>>>
>>>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>>>
>>>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>>>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>>>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>>>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>>>
>>>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>>>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>>>
>>>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>>>> console.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My questions are:
>>>>
>>>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>>
>>>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nikunj
>>>>
>>>> Bangalore - India
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 21 08:08:34 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:08:34 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <4ECA4CCA.5050308@sequans.com>
References: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org> <4ECA4CCA.5050308@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA4D52.5090504@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Gelonida N wrote:
>> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
>> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.
>>
>>
>> My usecase is following:
>>
>>
>> success = False
>> try:
>>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>>     success = True
>> except ImportError:
>>     pass
>> if not success:
>>     try:
>>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>>         success = True
>>     except importError:
>>         pass
>> if not success:
>>     . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
>> then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory
>>
>>
>> At this moment this is more a thought excercise than a real issue, but I
>> thought that perhaps somebody encountered this kind of issue and had an
>> idea how to deal with such situations.
>>
>> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
>> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use
>> the next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are 
>> imported.
>>
>>   
> Short answer for unimporting modules : Not possible (yes there is a 
> long one :o) ).
>
> One approach to your problem is to test for module existence before 
> importing any module.
>
> import imp
>
> def impVersion(version)
>    try:
>        imp.find_module('lib1_version%s' % version)
>        imp.find_module('lib2_version%s' % version)
>    except ImportError:
>        raise
>    else:
>        lib1 = __import__('lib1_version%s' % version)
>        lib2 = __import__('lib2_version%s' % version)
>
> # using a for loop to avoid to many nested try statement
> for version in [1,2,3,4]:
>    try:
>        impVersion(version)
>    except ImportError:
>        continue
>    break
>
> if not lib1 or not lib2:
>    # no lib imported
>    pass
>
> Using this code allows you to import your library only if all 
> conditions are met, preventing you from rolling back in case of error.
>
> Jean-Michel

there are missing
global lib1
global lib2
statements right before assigning lib1 and lib2.

JM


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Mon Nov 21 08:15:28 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:15:28 -0500
Subject: Multiple Threads - I/O in Same File
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D407@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hi All,


Just a question in general.  Is it possible that we have opened one file in r+ mode ( file1.txt ).

We have 2 threads,

*         Thread1 will continuously 'only read' the file in a loop.

*         Thread2 will only update the data in the file ( say a number < 100 ).

Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell using subprocess.call() ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing ) into that file by their own file i/o mechanism.



Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different processes one is only updating and other is only reading ..? Will this work in practical and what can be the complications ?


Thanks
Nikunj
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From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 08:18:00 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:18:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to:  Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
Message-ID: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to get the data from a CSV file into variables.  I have
used DictReader to get the field names and I can report them.  When I
attempt to look at the data, every row shows the combination of
fieldname:data.  How do I get the data out?
linelist=open( "C:/Users/rjoseph/Documents/Projects/Bootstrap Plan
Design Tool/Sandbox/line_list_r0a.csv", "rb" )
csvDictReader=csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
for data in csvReader:
        print data[0]
        print data[1]
        print data[2]
        print data[3]
linelist.close()

Thanks,
ray


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 08:39:18 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:39:18 +1100
Subject: JSON passing protocol
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGczyJ+2-PTinEadTPcbqtebxPqZDXDNYqehrY+=26mEsA@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning,

I'm planning on assembling my django templates onto mobile apps using
a JSON passing protocol, probably tunnels through HTTP.

What's available?

Thanks for all information,

Alec Taylor


From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 08:42:59 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:42:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
Message-ID: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

I don't see how to get my data from the output.  I can see the data in
the rows but it is mixed in with the field names.  That is, the data I
get comes out as:
fieldname1 : data1 , fieldname2 : data2 , etc.

import csv
linelist=open( "C:/Users/me/line_list_r0.csv", "rb" )
csvReader= csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
for data in csvReader:
	print data
linelist.close()

I want to pass this data as arrays or lists to another module such as:
myfunction(data1, data2, data3)

How do I get the data I want out of the pair fieldname1 : data1?

Thanks,
ray


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 21 08:59:35 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 13:59:35 GMT
Subject: How to:  Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-21, ray <ray at aarden.us> wrote:
> I am trying to get the data from a CSV file into variables.  I have
> used DictReader to get the field names and I can report them.  When I
> attempt to look at the data, every row shows the combination of
> fieldname:data.  How do I get the data out?
> linelist=open( "C:/Users/rjoseph/Documents/Projects/Bootstrap Plan
> Design Tool/Sandbox/line_list_r0a.csv", "rb" )
> csvDictReader=csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> for data in csvReader:
>         print data[0]
>         print data[1]
>         print data[2]
>         print data[3]
> linelist.close()

The elements yielded by a DictReader iterator are dictionaries,
and the keys are the headings of the csv file. So replace those
integers with strings representing the headings of your file.

If the headings are actually those numbers, you want:

[...]
    print data['0']
    print data['1']
    print data['2']
    print data['3']
    print data['4']
[...]

-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From mlenz at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 09:00:55 2011
From: mlenz at nocturnal.org (mlenz at nocturnal.org)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:00:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
Message-ID: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>

I'm working on a project where I need to communicate with some devices via modem which have the possibility of using MARK and SPACE parity.  These are not defined by POSIX and therefore are not directly supported under Linux.

I've found the following discussion on the topic:

http://www.lothosoft.ch/thomas/libmip/markspaceparity.php

and I have been trying to use this information (since the TERMIOS module is available) to proceed with the communication.

I was able to use minicom to determine that the first device I started testing with uses 7M1 but cannot figure out how to implement the solution described by the author above.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 09:16:44 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:16:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
Message-ID: <16480720.736.1321885004083.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

I should also note that I am aware of the following discussion on the newsgroup:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.python/1HyCqPSOf50/eQINFrrFKwoJ

However, I believe this refers to implementing the solution for 8M1 and 8S1.


From nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 09:26:48 2011
From: nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com (Nizamov Shawkat)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:26:48 +0100
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
Message-ID: <CAFwQ1Ss8873_=dRystWkCaRC_q2j_XvMj2kappkD8KAe-PB+0A@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/21  <mlenz at nocturnal.org>:
> I'm working on a project where I need to communicate with some devices via modem which have the possibility of using MARK and SPACE parity. ?These are not defined by POSIX and therefore are not directly supported under Linux.
>
> I've found the following discussion on the topic:
>
> http://www.lothosoft.ch/thomas/libmip/markspaceparity.php
>
> and I have been trying to use this information (since the TERMIOS module is available) to proceed with the communication.
>
> I was able to use minicom to determine that the first device I started testing with uses 7M1 but cannot figure out how to implement the solution described by the author above.
>


"The modes 7M1 (7 data bits, MARK parity, 1 stop bit) and 7S1 (7 data
bits, SPACE parity, 1 stop bit) can easily be emulated using 8N1 (0
data bits, NO parity, 1 stop bit) and setting the 8th data bit to 1
resp. 0. This is relatively simple to implement and cannot be
distinguished by the receiver."

It means that 7M1 === 8N1. Set 8N1 mode on your side and 7M1 on the
other side. I really do not understand what is the reason to have
dedicated 7M1 or 7S1 mode - it is no different from regular 8 bit mode
from the hardware point of view. From the software point of view it is
just the matter of the definition of the highest bit. In other words,
7M1/7S1 are two complementary subsets of a single 8N1 set.

HTH


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 09:27:29 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:27:29 -0500
Subject: Format the ouput in my python code
In-Reply-To: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA5FD1.5090308@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 07:13 AM, sl33k wrote:
> I am printing the numbers from 1 to 100. In that, I want to display
> multiples of 3,5 and of both as mulof3, mul0f5 and mulof3and5
> respectively.
>
>   I am getting the output I want but I would like to format the output
> to print only 10 number per line. How do I go about doing this?
>
> for i in range(1, 101):
>      if i % 3 == 0:
>          if i % 5 == 0:
>              print 'mulof3and5',
>          else:
>              print 'mulof3',
>      elif i % 5 == 0:
>          print 'mulof5',
>      else:
>          print i
>
Change that loop into a generator, having it return values rather than 
printing them.  Then call that generator in a for-loop, something like:

for index, val in enumerate(mygen):
     print val,
     if not index%10: print



-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 09:34:14 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:34:14 -0500
Subject: Format the ouput in my python code
In-Reply-To: <4ECA5FD1.5090308@davea.name>
References: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<4ECA5FD1.5090308@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ECA6166.3050401@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 09:27 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 07:13 AM, sl33k wrote:
>> I am printing the numbers from 1 to 100. In that, I want to display
>> multiples of 3,5 and of both as mulof3, mul0f5 and mulof3and5
>> respectively.
>>
>>   I am getting the output I want but I would like to format the output
>> to print only 10 number per line. How do I go about doing this?
>>
>> for i in range(1, 101):
>>      if i % 3 == 0:
>>          if i % 5 == 0:
>>              print 'mulof3and5',
>>          else:
>>              print 'mulof3',
>>      elif i % 5 == 0:
>>          print 'mulof5',
>>      else:
>>          print i
>>
> Change that loop into a generator, having it return values rather than 
> printing them.  Then call that generator in a for-loop, something like:
>
> for index, val in enumerate(mygen):
>     print val,
>     if not index%10: print
>
>
Oops.  That was untested, and it probably wasn't quite what you wanted.  
More likely something like (untested):

for index, val in enumerate(mygen):
      print val,
      if not ((index+1)%10): print




-- 

DaveA



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 09:44:34 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:44:34 +0000
Subject: decorators and closures
Message-ID: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com>

With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
executed, every time I call
a nested function:

def dec(fn):
     print("In decorator")
     def _dec():
         fn()

     return _dec

def nested():
     @dec
     def fun():
         print("here")

nested()
nested()

Will give:
In decorator
In decorator

So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
somehow?
I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 10:06:00 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:06:00 -0500
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 09:44 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
> executed, every time I call
> a nested function:
>
> def dec(fn):
>     print("In decorator")
>     def _dec():
>         fn()
>
>     return _dec
>
> def nested():
>     @dec
>     def fun():
>         print("here")
>
> nested()
> nested()
>
> Will give:
> In decorator
> In decorator
>
> So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
> somehow?
> I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)
Your function 'nested' isn't nested, 'fun' is.  What you discovered is 
that a decorator is always executed, every time a nested decorated 
function is defined.

You've also ust proved that it would be an incompatible change.  Doesn't 
that answer the question?  An optimizer that changes the behavior isn't 
usually desirable.


-- 

DaveA



From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 10:16:15 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:16:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 7:59?am, Neil Cerutti <ne... at norwich.edu> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, ray <r... at aarden.us> wrote:
>
> > I am trying to get the data from a CSV file into variables. ?I have
> > used DictReader to get the field names and I can report them. ?When I
> > attempt to look at the data, every row shows the combination of
> > fieldname:data. ?How do I get the data out?

> > linelist=open( "C:/Users/thisuser/Documents/Projects/Bootstrap Plan
> > Design Tool/Sandbox/line_list_r0a.csv", "rb" )
> > csvDictReader=csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> > for data in csvReader:
> > ? ? ? ? print data[0]
> > ? ? ? ? print data[1]
> > ? ? ? ? print data[2]
> > ? ? ? ? print data[3]
> > linelist.close()
>
> The elements yielded by a DictReader iterator are dictionaries,
> and the keys are the headings of the csv file. So replace those
> integers with strings representing the headings of your file.
>
> If the headings are actually those numbers, you want:
>
> [...]
> ? ? print data['0']
> ? ? print data['1']
> ? ? print data['2']
> ? ? print data['3']
> ? ? print data['4']
> [...]
>
> --
> Neil Cerutti
> ? "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan. ?Go
> ahead and dauntlessly! ?Make rapid progres!"
> ? --Ghosts 'n Goblins

Neil,

Thank you for your efforts.

When I use the 0, 1, etc. in the data[x] slot, I get some data.  When
I put a string in, I get an error stating:
TypeError: list indices must be integers, not str

But your suggestion has helped my better understand my problem. The
output is first a list of the keys and then the associated data.  The
difficulty is that I want to pass the data to another function will I
am in the 'for' loop.  But the first data out is keys and that is not
the data I want to send to the other function.  Is there a way to
capture the keys outside of the for loop so when the for loop is
entered, only data is extracted?

Thanks,
ray



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 10:35:13 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:13 +0000
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com> <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com>

On 11/21/2011 03:06 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> Your function 'nested' isn't nested, 'fun' is.  What you discovered is 
> that a decorator is always executed, every time a nested decorated 
> function is defined.
>
> You've also ust proved that it would be an incompatible change.  
> Doesn't that answer the question?  An optimizer that changes the 
> behavior isn't usually desirable.
>
Yes sure I think it makes perfectly sense, because you actually redefine 
a local variable every time..

Another thing (which was also the reason of the subject), I tried to 
disassemble the following:
   def dec(fn):
       def _dec():
           fn()

       return _dec

   @dec
   def fun():
       print("here")

   fun()

And I get this:
   In [29]: dis.dis(test_decorate)
   Disassembly of dec:
     2           0 LOAD_CLOSURE             0 (fn)
                 3 BUILD_TUPLE              1
                 6 LOAD_CONST               1 (<code object _dec at 
0x1c4b930, file "test_decorate.py", line 2>)
                 9 MAKE_CLOSURE             0
                12 STORE_FAST               1 (_dec)

     5          15 LOAD_FAST                1 (_dec)
                18 RETURN_VALUE

   Disassembly of fun:
     3           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (fn)
                 3 CALL_FUNCTION            0
                 6 POP_TOP
                 7 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
                10 RETURN_VALUE


Looking up the definition of the single calls didn't help much, so why 
do we need
for example MAKE_CLOSURE?
Is MAKE_CLOSURE just more generic maybe?


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 21 10:41:31 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 15:41:31 GMT
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
	<04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9iv9pbFdboU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-21, ray <ray at aarden.us> wrote:
> Is there a way to capture the keys outside of the for loop so
> when the for loop is entered, only data is extracted?

I have sometimes done the following type of thing, since
DictReader doesn't offer an attribute providing the field names.
This is Python 3.3.2 code, so revise boilerplate if necessary.

# Open once as a csv.reader instance to get the field names, in
# order.
with open(in_file_name, newline='') as in_file:
    reader = csv.reader(in_file)
    fields = next(reader)

# Open it again as a csv.DictReader instance to do actual work,
# writing revised lines to the output file as I go.
with open(in_file_name, newline=') as in_file:
  with open(out_file_name, "w", newline='') as out_file:
    reader = csv.DictReader(in_file)
    writer = csv.DictWriter(out_file, fieldnames=fields)
    # Write header line
    writer.writerow({f: f for n in fields})
    for record in reader:
        # Change a few fields
	# [...]
	writer.writerow(record)

-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 21 10:43:25 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 15:43:25 GMT
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
	<04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv9pbFdboU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <9iv9stFdboU2@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-21, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, ray <ray at aarden.us> wrote:
>> Is there a way to capture the keys outside of the for loop so
>> when the for loop is entered, only data is extracted?
>
> I have sometimes done the following type of thing, since
> DictReader doesn't offer an attribute providing the field names.
> This is Python 3.3.2 code, so revise boilerplate if necessary.
>
> # Open once as a csv.reader instance to get the field names, in
> # order.
> with open(in_file_name, newline='') as in_file:
>     reader = csv.reader(in_file)
>     fields = next(reader)

Equal to reader.next() in 2.x Python, I believe.

> # Open it again as a csv.DictReader instance to do actual work,
> # writing revised lines to the output file as I go.
> with open(in_file_name, newline=') as in_file:
>   with open(out_file_name, "w", newline='') as out_file:
>     reader = csv.DictReader(in_file)
>     writer = csv.DictWriter(out_file, fieldnames=fields)
>     # Write header line
>     writer.writerow({f: f for n in fields})

Oops! {f: f for f in fields}. Sorry about that.

>     for record in reader:
>         # Change a few fields
> 	# [...]
> 	writer.writerow(record)


-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 10:56:59 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:56:59 +0100
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMmEuCjEzHRBcOadh8ALQWDSOLaY4cz-unY4y-x7YNO2tg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm reading the Essential SQLAlchemy book from O'Reilly. It explains
SqlAlch 0.4 but my current version is 0.7 and there are some
differences.

Here is an example from the book:

user_table = Table('tf_user', metadata,
        Column('id', Integer, primary_key=True),
        Column('user_name', Unicode(16), unique=True, nullable=False),
        Column('password', Unicode(40), nullable=False),
        Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=''),
        Column('created', DateTime, default=datetime.now)
    )

Here I get the following warning:

SAWarning: Unicode column received non-unicode default value.
  Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=''),

Changing Unicode(255) to String(255) makes the warning disappear but
I'm not sure if it's the correct solution.

For table names, the book uses the prefix convention 'tf_' but what
does it mean? 't' is table, but what is 'f'?

Thanks,

Laszlo


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:28:19 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:28:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>

Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text.  So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?



From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:28:19 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:28:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>

Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text.  So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?



From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:29:53 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:29:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
References: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7c77f2c4-09a5-4b5d-b162-b282688c0409@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

On Nov 21, 7:42?am, ray <r... at aarden.us> wrote:
> I don't see how to get my data from the output. ?I can see the data in
> the rows but it is mixed in with the field names. ?That is, the data I
> get comes out as:
> fieldname1 : data1 , fieldname2 : data2 , etc.
>
> import csv
> linelist=open( "C:/Users/me/line_list_r0.csv", "rb" )
> csvReader= csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> for data in csvReader:
> ? ? ? ? print data
> linelist.close()
>
> I want to pass this data as arrays or lists to another module such as:
> myfunction(data1, data2, data3)
>
> How do I get the data I want out of the pair fieldname1 : data1?
>
> Thanks,
> ray
>
>

It returns a dict(). You can reference the fields with
data['fieldname1'], etc.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 21 11:39:37 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:39:37 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with regard
	to IDLE.
Message-ID: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>


My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on 
the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. So far no response on 
this has solved the problem.

I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.

I know at one time it worked on my 64-bit Win 7 PC,  which likely had a 
32-bit version installed on it.  After something like six months of 
modest use it stopped working as above. No IDLE choice.

I know by installing a 64-bit version, 3.2.2 failed the IDLE criterions 
as described. No IDLE.

I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used, 
nothing happens.  Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon 
spins around then zip, nothing.  Further, right-clicking on Properties 
of IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog.  It shows Start in: 
c:\Python32\, and None for shortcut.  There is a compatibility tab, 
which I've set to Win7.  I think there's a troubleshooter there too, but 
I haven't used it. Under the Details tab, it shows Name: IDLE(Python 
Gui).lnk. Folder Path as: c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start... 
Nothing after the "...".  Attributes: A

Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon. 
At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I 
tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".

When I rebooted my system a few hours after installing 3.2.2, because 
the PC was running really slowly--not because of Python, I was greeted 
by a couple of interesting messages as the desktop was populated.

I can execute Python from the command line.

1. Specified module could not be found: Load Lib, python.dll.

2. \ProgramFiles(x86)\uniblueDrivers\Scanner (x86) Python26.dll. I'm 
sure this is related to Winamp, which I had installed a month ago.  It 
had some "crazy" choice to scan for new drivers.   Of course, if it 
found one-connected with Python, and if you wanted it, $$$.  I think 
this message is a red herring. I may re-install Winamp to get rid of 
that uniblue tool that seems like nothing more than an ad.

Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to 
play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem.  My PC 
behaves normally

I'm using Win 7 Premium.

So unless some brilliant idea appears, that leaves me with the choice of 
not using Python or this suggestion... (Let's not get off into other 
variations of other "Pythons" like Active..."):

Someone suggested using the mail list at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's different 
about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that the 
inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the people who 
are responsible for constructing Python?

Comments?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:41:01 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:41:01 +1100
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqjUHyzwnDhBsk3Tm1b+35a9ZaXicHJrqrHzZPnEojG_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:28 AM, Matthew Lenz <matthew at nocturnal.org> wrote:
> Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected. ?Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text. ?So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?

Using 8N1 when it's really 7M1 means you have the high bit set on
every byte. I don't know if there's an easy way to do this fast in
Python, but what you need to do is mask them all off... I'm not sure
if there's a better way, but this ought to work:

string = "".join(chr(ord(x)&0x7f) for x in string)

In Python 3, iterating over a 'bytes' string produces integers, so
omit the ord() call. Other than that, code is not tested.

ChrisA


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:47:53 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:47:53 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
Message-ID: <5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text.  So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?

Under minicom in 8N1, it's going to look garbled because the high bit will always be set. Minicom will try to spit out those characters anyway, which will print out whatever extended ASCII garbage your terminal supports in the 0x80-0xFF range. Programmatically, though, you can strip off the high bit when you're receiving it in Python.

"Space" parity, on the other hand, should look normal under Minicom because the high bit will always be low, giving you standard 7-bit ASCII.

- Dave

From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:52:17 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate) but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert what I receive?


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:52:17 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate) but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert what I receive?


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 21 12:08:06 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jae0hm$qod$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list at python.org> Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> writes:

> SAWarning: Unicode column received non-unicode default value.
>   Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=''),

Perhaps it would help to supply the default value as a Unicode string
instead of a plain string?

  Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=u''),

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 12:11:30 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:11:30 -0500
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com> <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
	<4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA8642.7060908@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 10:35 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 03:06 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>> Your function 'nested' isn't nested, 'fun' is. What you discovered is
>> that a decorator is always executed, every time a nested decorated
>> function is defined.
>>
>> You've also ust proved that it would be an incompatible change.
>> Doesn't that answer the question? An optimizer that changes the
>> behavior isn't usually desirable.
>>
> Yes sure I think it makes perfectly sense, because you actually redefine
> a local variable every time..
>
> Another thing (which was also the reason of the subject), I tried to
> disassemble the following:
> def dec(fn):
> def _dec():
> fn()
>
> return _dec
>
> @dec
> def fun():
> print("here")
>
> fun()
>
> And I get this:
> In [29]: dis.dis(test_decorate)
> Disassembly of dec:
> 2 0 LOAD_CLOSURE 0 (fn)
> 3 BUILD_TUPLE 1
> 6 LOAD_CONST 1 (<code object _dec at 0x1c4b930, file "test_decorate.py",
> line 2>)
> 9 MAKE_CLOSURE 0
> 12 STORE_FAST 1 (_dec)
>
> 5 15 LOAD_FAST 1 (_dec)
> 18 RETURN_VALUE
>
> Disassembly of fun:
> 3 0 LOAD_DEREF 0 (fn)
> 3 CALL_FUNCTION 0
> 6 POP_TOP
> 7 LOAD_CONST 0 (None)
> 10 RETURN_VALUE
>
>
> Looking up the definition of the single calls didn't help much, so why
> do we need
> for example MAKE_CLOSURE?
> Is MAKE_CLOSURE just more generic maybe?
>

You didn't mention what version of Python you're running.  With Python 
2, I got very different results.  So I switched to Python 3.2, and I 
still don't get exactly what you have.

A closure is needed if there's some non-global data outside the function 
definition (code object) that's needed by the function object.  As you 
supply the code I don't need a closure.  But if I add a local variable 
in test_decorate(), and refer to it in dec(), then I get one.  Not the 
same as yours.

You left out the import and the definition line for test_decorate.  Did 
you leave anything else?  And what version of Python are you using?  Are 
you perhaps running in a shell, as opposed to running code directly from 
a source file?



-- 

DaveA


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:12:03 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:12:03 +0000
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECA8663.2070706@gmail.com>

On 11/21/2011 04:39 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> ...
> I'm using Win 7 Premium.
>
> So unless some brilliant idea appears, that leaves me with the choice 
> of not using Python or this suggestion... (Let's not get off into 
> other variations of other "Pythons" like Active..."):
>
> Someone suggested using the mail list at 
> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's 
> different about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that 
> the inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the 
> people who are responsible for constructing Python?
>
> Comments?

I only see windows and users-related problems, not much having to do 
with Python actually.
Moreover, nothing forces you to use it, and with this attitude is not 
bad that you stay way
from it, no offense of course.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:17:12 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:17:12 +0000
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA8642.7060908@davea.name>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com> <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
	<4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com> <4ECA8642.7060908@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ECA8798.6060906@gmail.com>

On 11/21/2011 05:11 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
> You didn't mention what version of Python you're running.  With Python 
> 2, I got very different results.  So I switched to Python 3.2, and I 
> still don't get exactly what you have.
>
> A closure is needed if there's some non-global data outside the 
> function definition (code object) that's needed by the function 
> object.  As you supply the code I don't need a closure.  But if I add 
> a local variable in test_decorate(), and refer to it in dec(), then I 
> get one.  Not the same as yours.
>
> You left out the import and the definition line for test_decorate.  
> Did you leave anything else?  And what version of Python are you 
> using?  Are you perhaps running in a shell, as opposed to running code 
> directly from a source file?

I use python 2.7, and actually the whole source is this (test_decorate.py):

def dec(fn):
   def _dec():
       fn()

   return _dec

@dec
def fun():
   print("here")

fun()


Using ipython:
import test_decorate
dis.dis(test_decorate)


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:22:28 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:22:28 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
Message-ID: <0BC69704-0205-4D1E-B2BA-06DB2783F31D@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate) but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert what I receive?

The high-level overview is that you'll want to OR in 0x80 on transmit, and AND 0x7F on receive (thus inserting the high bit when you send it out and removing it when you receive).  If you wanted to be extra-sure you're receiving things correctly, you should also check to see if your value ANDed with 0x80 is not zero.

In Python 2.x, as mentioned, when you iterate over a string, you get a bunch of tiny one-character strings, which you then need to convert into numbers with ord() and back into strings with chr() when you re-concatenate it.  ord() and chr() may be familiar to you from Perl.  For example, you could do this on reception:

----

# However you get your data out of serial
received_str = receive_my_string()

ord_str = [ord(x) for x in received_str]

# An exception may be extreme in this case, but hey.  Note that
# the filter() function actually returns a list of all the
# characters that don't have the high bit set, so you could
# actually use that if you wanted to.
if filter((lambda x: x < 0x80), ord_str):
   raise IOError("Received character without mark parity")

return "".join([chr(x & 0x7F) for x in received_str])

----

In Python 3.x, iterating over a bytes array (which is, hopefully, what your serial interface returns) will give you a bunch of ints, so you shouldn't need to do the conversions:


----

# However you get your data out of serial
received_bytes = receive_my_string()

# In Python 3.x, filter() returns an iterator, which is generally a
# better thing to return, but doesn't test as nicely for a bool.
for b in received_bytes:
   if b < 0x80:
       raise IOError("Received character without mark parity")

# None of this "".join() nonsense with byte arrays!
return bytes([(x & 0x7F) for x in received_bytes])


----


There are surely more efficient ways to do what I've typed up there, but those should work pretty well for whatever you're looking to do.  For sending, you pretty much want to swap (x & 0x7F) with (x | 0x80) to insert that high bit.


- Dave




From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov 21 12:25:54 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:25:54 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 11:58:53 AM David Riley did opine:

> On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Matthew Lenz wrote:
> > Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when
> > once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text. 
> > So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python
> > program correct?
> 
> Under minicom in 8N1, it's going to look garbled because the high bit
> will always be set. Minicom will try to spit out those characters
> anyway, which will print out whatever extended ASCII garbage your
> terminal supports in the 0x80-0xFF range. Programmatically, though, you
> can strip off the high bit when you're receiving it in Python.

I have been using 8n1 in minicom for years, never ever had such a problem. 
In fact, I don't even know if I can set the path to mark parity as it is so 
rarely used.  E or O as error detectors are much more commonly used.

Example copy/paste from minicom, talking to a trs-80 Color Computer 3 
running a shell under nitros9, which is a bit like unix.  I am asking it 
for the settings of its own output path, .1=stdout:

{t2|07}/DD/NITROS9/dw3install/6309L2/SCRIPTS:tmode .1
/t2
 upc=00 bso=01 dlo=00 eko=01 alf=01 nul=00 pau=01 pag=18
 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B rpr=09 dup=01 psc=17 int=03
 qut=05 bse=08 ovf=07 par=01 bau=06 xon=00 xof=00
{t2|07}/DD/NITROS9/dw3install/6309L2/SCRIPTS:

And that is 9600 baud 8n1 on both ends.  Ascii is normally 7 bit and will 
have a low 8th bit if fed normal ascii data, so how is the 8th bit getting 
set other than purposely setting 7M1 on the other end of the cable?

> "Space" parity, on the other hand, should look normal under Minicom
> because the high bit will always be low, giving you standard 7-bit
> ASCII.
> 
Yes.

> - Dave


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which, unfortunately,
no one we know belongs.


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:50:17 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:50:17 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>


On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:25 PM, gene heskett wrote:

> And that is 9600 baud 8n1 on both ends.  Ascii is normally 7 bit and will 
> have a low 8th bit if fed normal ascii data, so how is the 8th bit getting 
> set other than purposely setting 7M1 on the other end of the cable?

That's what I thought the OP was doing; it sounds like he's trying to receive 7M1 in Minicom using 8N1 on the terminal and getting garbled data because the high bit is set (because the other end is sending 7M1).  I never meant to imply that 8N1 would give garbled data if both ends were set to it; indeed, that's pretty much standard communications settings for short cables in low to moderate noise environments.  If anyone else read it that way, that's not what I meant. :-)

- Dave



From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:52:52 2011
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:52:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jae35k$t9a$1@dont-email.me>

W. eWatson wrote:

> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor
> on the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. 
> 
> So far no response on this has solved the problem.
> ....

  As an alternative you might consider adding a short-cut to IDLE 
  to the  Send To  directory if that option is still available
  under windows 7 .... 

  That would seem  almost  as handy 
  only moving the mouse one more time
  to roll out the  Send To  target menu  
  before the final click to launch ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From mcepl at redhat.com  Mon Nov 21 12:55:30 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWF0xJtqIENlcGw=?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:55:30 +0100
Subject: [ANN] json_diff 0.9.2 released - JSON files comparator
In-Reply-To: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
References: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <4ECA9092.90906@redhat.com>

I released json_diff 0.9.2.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/json_diff

json_diff is an utility comparing two JSON files and generating diff in 
form of another JSON file with differences for each level of the object 
in a dict

{
    "_append": {},
    "_remove": {},
    "_update": {}
}

This is the first public release, working my way towards 1.0 release.

Development repository is at https://gitorious.org/json_diff, patches 
and pull requests welcome!

-- 
http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mcepl<at>ceplovi.cz
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC

Basically, the only ?intuitive? interface is the nipple.  After
that, it's all learned.
     -- Bruce Ediger when discussing intuivity of Mac OS
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.next.advocacy\
        /msg/7fa8c580900353d0



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:58:58 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:58:58 -0700
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
In-Reply-To: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkk8m7dtus2WEWL9Am4VeAYAbr5BbuoPH87mYQkzusRqA@mail.gmail.com>

The point of DictReader is that it produces dicts.  If you actually want a
sequence, then use an ordinary csv.reader instead.
-------------- next part --------------
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From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 12:59:47 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:59:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
	<mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks, this will be a great help.

Just wanted to confirm that you meant to use [ .. for x in ord_str] in the example conversion?  Got a TypeError using the received_str.


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 12:59:47 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:59:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
	<mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks, this will be a great help.

Just wanted to confirm that you meant to use [ .. for x in ord_str] in the example conversion?  Got a TypeError using the received_str.


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 13:12:50 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:12:50 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
	<mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <A95D9DBB-0855-4D48-8569-5E0911C45E19@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Thanks, this will be a great help.
> 
> Just wanted to confirm that you meant to use [ .. for x in ord_str] in the example conversion?  Got a TypeError using the received_str.

Yes, I probably should have double-checked that.  ord_str is indeed what I meant. :-)


- Dave




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Nov 21 13:20:01 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:20:01 +0000
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
Message-ID: <4ECA9651.8020809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 21/11/2011 16:52, Matthew Lenz wrote:
> Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in
> perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate)
> but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be
> necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert
> what I receive?

Python strings have a .translate method:

# Example in Python 2
import string

# From top bit set...
from_chars = "".join(chr(c | 0x80) for c in range(0x7F))

# ...to top bit clear.
to_chars = "".join(chr(c) for c in range(0x7F))

# Build the translation table.
force_clear = string.maketrans(from_chars, to_chars)

s = "\x41\xC1"
print s
print s.translate(force_clear)


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov 21 13:33:17 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:17 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201111211333.17806.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 01:28:16 PM David Riley did opine:

> On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:25 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > And that is 9600 baud 8n1 on both ends.  Ascii is normally 7 bit and
> > will have a low 8th bit if fed normal ascii data, so how is the 8th
> > bit getting set other than purposely setting 7M1 on the other end of
> > the cable?
> 
> That's what I thought the OP was doing; it sounds like he's trying to
> receive 7M1 in Minicom using 8N1 on the terminal and getting garbled
> data because the high bit is set (because the other end is sending
> 7M1).  I never meant to imply that 8N1 would give garbled data if both
> ends were set to it; indeed, that's pretty much standard communications
> settings for short cables in low to moderate noise environments.  If
> anyone else read it that way, that's not what I meant. :-)
> 
> - Dave

I think that getting the other end off 7M1 was what I was saying.  Trying 
to attack the bad data after capture by writing code always seems extremely 
masochistic to me.

The amount of miss-understanding that seems to pervade rs-232 
communications is mind boggling at times.  The tech itself is so old it is 
being forgotten!

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Whatever occurs from love is always beyond good and evil.
		-- Friedrich Nietzsche


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 21 13:33:44 2011
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:33:44 +0100
Subject: SQLObject 1.2.0
In-Reply-To: <20111120121940.GC24874@iskra.aviel.ru>
References: <20111120121940.GC24874@iskra.aviel.ru>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4QUGY9KjBST3NUT6jS9c1DTVJW4DNwN8QV=yVfq-Kf06w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a million Oleg!

Cheers,
Daniel


On 11/20/11, Oleg Broytman <phd at phdru.name> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'm pleased to announce version 1.2.0, the first stable release of branch
> 1.2 of SQLObject.
>
>
> What is SQLObject
> =================
>
> SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are
> described
> as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to
> be
> easy to use and quick to get started with.
>
> SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
> Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).
>
>
> Where is SQLObject
> ==================
>
> Site:
> http://sqlobject.org
>
> Development:
> http://sqlobject.org/devel/
>
> Mailing list:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss
>
> Archives:
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject
>
> Download:
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/1.2.0
>
> News and changes:
> http://sqlobject.org/News.html
>
>
> What's New
> ==========
>
> Features & Interface
> --------------------
>
> * Strings are treated specially in Select to allow
>   Select(['id, 'name'], where='value = 42'). Update allows a string in
>   WHERE.
>
> * ForeignKey('Table', refColumn='refcol_id') to allow ForeignKey to
>   point to a non-id column; the referred column must be a unique integer
>   column.
>
> * delColumn now accepts a ForeignKey's name without 'ID'.
>
> * Support for PostgreSQL 7.* is dropped. The minimal supported version of
>   PostgreSQL is 8.1 now.
>
> * Quoting rules changed for PostgreSQL: SQLObject uses E'' escape string
>   if the string contains characters escaped with backslash.
>
> * A bug caused by psycopg2 recently added a new boolean not callable
>   autocommit attribute was fixed.
>
> * sqlobject.__doc__ and main.__doc__ no longer contain version number.
>   Use sqlobject.version or version_info.
>
> For a more complete list, please see the news:
> http://sqlobject.org/News.html
>
> Oleg.
> --
>      Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            phd at phdru.name
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Nov 21 13:36:14 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:36:14 -0600
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
In-Reply-To: <04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
	<04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA9A1E.1060100@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/21/11 09:16, ray wrote:
> Is there a way to capture the keys outside of the for loop so
> when the for loop is entered, only data is extracted?

I frequently do this for things like tweaking headers (stripping 
space, normalizing case, etc because clients love to send us 
messy data):

   def norm_header(h):
     return h.strip().upper()
   def norm_item(i):
     return i.strip()

   f = file("example.csv", "rb")
   try:
     r = csv.reader(f)
     headers = r.next()
     header_map = dict(
       (norm_header(h), i)
       for i, h in enumerate(headers)
       )
     for row in r:
       item = lambda h: norm_item(row[header_map[norm_header(h)]])
       value1 = item("Item1")
       value2 = item("ITEM3")
       ...
   finally:
     f.close()

Should work in 2.x, possibly in 3.x (though you might need to 
change from "headers = r.next()" to "headers = next(r)")

-tkc




From illy at otekno.biz  Mon Nov 21 14:21:16 2011
From: illy at otekno.biz (Illy)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 02:21:16 +0700
Subject: SetStatusText of MDIParentFrame from MDIChildFrame
Message-ID: <4ECAA4AC.6040803@otekno.biz>

Dear my friends....

I am stucked on a problem: I can't call a function of MDIParentFrame 
from MDIChildFrame: myturnonmenu and mystatusbar.SetStatusText()

Anybody would be so nice for telling me my mistakes? Please do me a favor.

Thank you very much in advance.

I created 3 files contain this sourcecode:
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ ls
jendelapos.py  jendelapos.pyc  myMDIChildFrameforLogin.py  
myMDIChildFrameforLogin.pyc  myMDIFrame.py
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
===========================================
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ cat myMDIFrame.py
#!/usr/bin/env python
import wx
import os

import jendelapos
import myMDIChildFrameforLogin

class myMDIParentFrame (wx.MDIParentFrame):
     def __init__(self):
         global mystatusbar, menuakuntan

         wx.MDIParentFrame.__init__(self, None, -1, "This is 
myMDIParentFrame", size=(1020,800))
         mystatusbar = self.CreateStatusBar()
         mystatusbar.SetStatusText("This is the StatusBar I want to put 
my message for the users in it")
         menuakuntan = wx.Menu()
         menuakuntan.Append(1000,  "Accounting - POS (&Point of Sale)")

         menuaplikasi = wx.Menu()
         menuaplikasi.Append(20000,  "&Login")
         menuaplikasi.Append(20001,  "E&xit")

         menubar = wx.MenuBar()
         menubar.Append(menuakuntan,  "&Accounting")
         menubar.Append(menuaplikasi,  "A&pplication")
         myturnoffmenu(self)

         self.SetMenuBar(menubar)

         self.Bind (wx.EVT_MENU,  self.jendelapos,  id=1000)

         self.Bind (wx.EVT_MENU,  self.myMDIChildFrameforLogin,  id=20000)
         self.Bind (wx.EVT_MENU,  self.OnExit,  id=20001)

     def OnExit(self,  evt):
         self.Close(True)

     jendelapos =  jendelapos.Show

     myMDIChildFrameforLogin = myMDIChildFrameforLogin.Show

def myturnoffmenu(self):
     menuakuntan.Enable(1000, False)

def myturnonmenu(self):
     menuakuntan.Enable(1000, True)

if __name__ == '__main__':
     app = wx.PySimpleApp()
     myMDIFrame = myMDIParentFrame()
     myMDIFrame.Show()
     app.MainLoop()
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
=================================================
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ cat ./myMDIChildFrameforLogin.py
import wx

def Show(self, evt):
     global pengguna, katakunci, jendela
     jendela = wx.MDIChildFrame(self, -1, "Login Form",  style= 
wx.DEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE | wx.HSCROLL | wx.VSCROLL)

     mystatusbar.SetStatusText("Login succeeded")
     myturnonmenu()

     jendela.Show(True)
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
=================================================
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ cat jendelapos.py
import wx

def Show (self, evt):
         win = wx.MDIChildFrame(self, -1,  "Accounting - POS")
         win.Show(True)
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
=================================================



From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 14:29:24 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:29:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 14:29:24 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:29:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Nov 21 14:42:35 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:42:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2931.1321903774.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jae9jb$ri0$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-21, Matthew Lenz <matthew at nocturnal.org> wrote:

> Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same
> result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.

Nope, that's only true for some values.

If we're limiting ourselves to byte values, then we're talking
modulo-256 arithmetic, so:

128 + 128 = 0 
128 | 128 = 128

0 - 128  = 128
0 & 0x7f = 0


What's is true is that adding 128 is actullay the same as subtracting
128, and both are the same as exclusive-or 128 (v ^ 128):

>>> x = 128
>>> (x + 128) & 0xff
0
>>> (x - 128) & 0xff
0
>>> (x ^ 128) & 0xff
0

>>> x = 0
>>> (x + 128) & 0xff
128
>>> (x - 128) & 0xff
128
>>> (x ^ 128) & 0xff
128

> I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)

Well, the weighting of the high-order bit in an 8-bit wide binary
number is 128, if that's what you're getting at...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! How's it going in
                                  at               those MODULAR LOVE UNITS??
                              gmail.com            


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 15:42:23 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:42:23 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <38BF659E-38D4-4516-9F22-3C0F7F992828@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)

It's not, though the difference is important.  They're binary ANDs (&) and ORs (|), so (0x0F | 0x80) = 0x8F, but (0x8F | 0x80) = 0x8F as well, whereas (0x8F + 0x80) = 0x10F.  For manipulating bit values (which is what you're doing, you should almost never be adding or subtracting, but rather ANDing and ORing (or XORing, but not nearly as often).

Just in case you're not familiar, 0x is the prefix for a hexadecimal number. 0x80 = 128, which is binary 10000000 (i.e. the high bit in a byte).


- Dave

From phihag at phihag.de  Mon Nov 21 16:14:17 2011
From: phihag at phihag.de (Philipp Hagemeister)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:14:17 +0100
Subject: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors
	+ issues	...
In-Reply-To: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
References: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4ECABF29.1030805@phihag.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

As a general rule, feel free to contact youtube-dl developers and users
at https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issues/ . youtube-dl is just one
application, which happens to be written in Python.

lbrt at mail.python.org wrote:
>  I did find my way (through a silly hack) to get all files within a size range without waiting for youtube-dl to be "enhanced".
You may be able to send a HEAD request to the URL, but there's no
guarantee the response will contain a Content-Length header. In fact,
there will never be a Content-Lenght header for infinite HTTP streams.
Also, RTMP URLs are way more complicated.

>  I have also been getting errors reporting:
>  RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
You need rtmpdump. See http://rtmpdump.mplayerhq.hu/ for instructions on
how to install it.

>  It would be very helpful if you could redirect youtube-dl errors to a separate file you would indicate via a flag
If you think so, please open an issue. Do not forget to consider the
usefulness not only for your specific application, but also of other
applications. I think the command-line API
(https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issues/152) will be your best shot.
Note that you can already redirect youtube-dl's output to a file, just
like any other shell program:

$ youtube-dl uHlDtZ6Oc3s > log

will write a file log that contains all of youtube-dl's output. If the
return code is not 0, an error has occured.

Cheers,

Philipp
youtube-dl developer
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEAREKAAYFAk7KvygACgkQ9eq1gvr7CFw6GwCfeaF0TPNonTCaXVBDnmDBPio2
qVQAn2/JQzTbBYs+pe50t4qVCjxY+BLy
=o6uC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From questions.anon at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 16:42:25 2011
From: questions.anon at gmail.com (questions anon)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: mask one array using another array
Message-ID: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to mask one array using another array.

I have created a masked array using
mask=MA.masked_equal(myarray,0),
that looks something like:
[1  -  -  1,
 1  1  -  1,
 1  1  1  1,
 -   1  -  1]

I have an array of values that I want to mask whereever my mask has a a '-'.
how do I do this?
I have looked at
http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/masks.pdf but the
command:

d = array(a, mask=c.mask()

results in this error:
TypeError: 'numpy.ndarray' object is not callable

I basically want to do exactly what that article does in that equation.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
-------------- next part --------------
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 21 16:48:37 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:48:37 -0500
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face
	of exceptions
In-Reply-To: <jadf1g$hpp$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<jadf1g$hpp$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <jaeh03$2tn$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/21/2011 7:09 AM, Mel Wilson wrote:
> GZ wrote:
>> Here is my situation. A parent object owns a list of files (or other
>> objects with a close() method). The close() method can sometimes fail
>> and raise an exception. When the parent object's close() method is
>> called, it needs to close down as many files it owns as possible, even
>> if the close() function of some files fail. I also want to re-raise at
>> least one of the original exceptions so that the outer program can
>> handle it.
> [ ... ]
>>
>> It will re-raise the first exception and preserve the context and
>> close as many other files as possible while ignoring any further
>> exceptions.
>>
>> But this looks really awkward. And in the case that two files fail to
>> close, I am not sure the best strategy is to ignore the second failure.
>
> I imagine you could save any caught exception instances in a list and
> study them later.

Yes, I would raise a custom exception instance that takes such a list of 
failures in its constructor. Give it a custom __str__ method to display 
them all.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 17:43:38 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:43:38 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2809.1321562593.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2809.1321562593.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ECAD41A.9070405@yahoo.com>

On 11/17/2011 3:43 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> ...
> If you're having issues, grab a spare computer, throw Linux on it (I
> recommend Ubuntu or Debian, others will have other preferred distros),
> and see if the issues remain. Or if you're having trouble with the
> GUI, try things from the command line (Windows's command interpreter
> is pretty weak compared to bash, but it's plenty powerful enough).
>
> ChrisA

If the OP is having trouble with this issue, and if he can't make 
Windows work here, I suspect that he'll get into trouble trying to 
install and test with Linux.

However if he did want to try it, and assuming he's got 8GB or so of 
extra space, one easy way to test with Linux is to install VirtualBox, 
then install Linux under that.  I've done that a half dozen times 
without hiccups.  That way he doesn't need a second machine and doesn't 
need to repartition or toss his old OS.

     Alan


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 21 18:07:47 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:07:47 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jaelki$4ll$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/21/2011 11:39 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>
> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file.

Your first criterion for success should be that IDLE runs at all, which 
is apparently does not. How you run it is secondary.

Right-click responses are controlled by Windows using data in the 
registry. Windows modifies the registry in response to installers *and 
users*. The ActiveState installers request 'Edit with PythonWin'. They 
do not request 'Edit with IDLE' and it is foolish to complain to us when 
you use ActiveState and get their choice of context choices.

The PSF .msi installers (.msi = MicroSoftInstall format) from python.org 
request 'Edit with IDLE' but cannot make Windows put it in. If your 
registry is messed up enough, it does not happen. But no error message.

I have explained to you another way to work with IDLE once it runs. It 
you refuse to use it, that is your problem, not ours.

> I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.

You installed with the PSF installer with an ok registry.

> I know at one time it worked on my 64-bit Win 7 PC, which likely had a
> 32-bit version installed on it. After something like six months of
> modest use it stopped working as above. No IDLE choice.

So some *other* program messed things up. Stop blaming us.
Heavy or modest use in the meantime is irrelevant.

> I know by installing a 64-bit version, 3.2.2 failed the IDLE criterions
> as described. No IDLE.

Did you uninstall the 32 bit version, and best, all Python versions?

> I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used,
> nothing happens. Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon
> spins around then zip, nothing.

This is your real problem. Stop worrying about the context menu.

 > Further, right-clicking on Properties of
> IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog. It shows Start in: c:\Python32\,

This is the Shortcut tab. A shortcut is like a bound method. The 
function is the target: 'python 3.2.2 (64 bit)' on my machine. The 
starting directory is like a bound argument, although it is passed to 
the launcher that launches the function. What the Properties dialog does 
not show are the actual 'bound arguments' that are passed to the target 
as options. So one cannot know what the shortcut is actually trying to 
do. This is one of the Really Stupid things about Windows that should 
have been fixed long ago but has not.

> and None for shortcut.

None for Shortcut key, such as alt-I to invoke the shortcut.

> There is a compatibility tab, which I've set to
> Win7. I think there's a troubleshooter there too, but I haven't used it.
> Under the Details tab, it shows Name: IDLE(Python Gui).lnk. Folder Path
> as: c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start... Nothing after the "...".

Details: Folder Path is the same as General: Location. Mouse over the 
latter the the full path appears. That Properties windows are still 
fixed at 480 pixel wide, regardless of screen size, is another Really 
Stupid thing.

> Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon.
> At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I
> tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".

If the registry entry for .pyw is messed up, trying to run the file by 
clicking on it is not likely to work. Try running from Command Prompt, 
as I believe others suggested.

> When I rebooted my system a few hours after installing 3.2.2, because
> the PC was running really slowly--not because of Python, I was greeted
> by a couple of interesting messages as the desktop was populated.
>
> I can execute Python from the command line.
>
> 1. Specified module could not be found: Load Lib, python.dll.
>
> 2. \ProgramFiles(x86)\uniblueDrivers\Scanner (x86) Python26.dll.

The uniblue drivers program will match your drivers against a database 
of up-to-date drivers and offer to upgrade them. I have used uniblue's 
registry scanner program. Treating pythonxy.dll as a driver, if they 
are, is an error. These are paid programs. The free demos only scan to 
tell you what they would do if you bought them.

 > I'm sure this is related to Winamp, which I had installed a month ago.

I do not believe they are the same companies, but they may have a 
cross-promotion deal.

> had some "crazy" choice to scan for new drivers. Of course, if it found
> one-connected with Python, and if you wanted it, $$$. I think this
> message is a red herring. I may re-install Winamp to get rid of that
> uniblue tool that seems like nothing more than an ad.
>
> Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to
> play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem. My PC
> behaves normally

If you ran the psf 3.2.2 installer and idle does not run when you click 
the start menu shortcut, something is wrong.

> Someone suggested using the mail list at
> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's different
> about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that the
> inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the people who
> are responsible for constructing Python?

Python list is mirror to comp.lang.python which is mirrored to a google 
group. It is also mirrored to gmane.comp.python, which is how I read and 
post. There is some spam filtering if you use the python.org list or 
gmane group.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Nov 21 18:08:12 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:08:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2933.1321908148.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaelks$e20$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-21, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Matthew Lenz wrote:
>
>> Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)
>
> It's not, though the difference is important.  They're binary ANDs (&) and ORs (|), so (0x0F | 0x80) = 0x8F, but (0x8F | 0x80) = 0x8F as well, whereas (0x8F + 0x80) = 0x10F.  For manipulating bit values (which is what you're doing, you should almost never be adding or subtracting, but rather ANDing and ORing (or XORing, but not nearly as often).
>
> Just in case you're not familiar, 0x is the prefix for a hexadecimal number. 0x80 = 128, which is binary 10000000 (i.e. the high bit in a byte).

Like the old joke:

  There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand
  binary numbers, and those who don't.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... I don't like FRANK
                                  at               SINATRA or his CHILDREN.
                              gmail.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Nov 21 18:09:44 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:09:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2933.1321908148.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaelks$e20$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jaelno$e20$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-21, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Like the old joke:
>
>   There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand
>   binary numbers, and those who don't.

OK, it's not _much_ of a joke, but I don't get to use it very often,
so I couldn't let it go (for one thing, it only works in "print").


-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I feel like I am
                                  at               sharing a ``CORN-DOG''
                              gmail.com            with NIKITA KHRUSCHEV ...


From chasrmartin at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 18:17:05 2011
From: chasrmartin at gmail.com (Charlie Martin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:17:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
Message-ID: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

This is what seems like an odd bug, but in code I'd thing often-enough used it must be the expected behavior and I just don't understand.  Please, sirs/mesdames, is this a bug?

Example code:
---------------- begin code -------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

"""
@-character WTF?
"""
import sys
import os
import logging, logging.handlers
import socket

log = logging.getLogger(__name__)
log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)

fmtColon = logging.Formatter('[%(module)s:%(lineno)03d]:%(message)s')
strC = logging.handlers.SysLogHandler(address='/dev/log')
strC.setFormatter(fmtColon)
strC.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
log.addHandler(strC)

fmtAt = logging.Formatter('[%(module)s@%(lineno)03d]:%(message)s')
strA = logging.handlers.SysLogHandler(address='/dev/log')
strA.setFormatter(fmtAt)
strA.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
log.addHandler(strA)

log.info("My log message:isn't it special?")
---------------- end code ----------------

produces these entries in the syslog messages:

---------------- begin results ----------------------
Nov 21 16:09:56 crmartin [atSign: 026]:My log message:isn't it special?
Nov 21 16:09:56 crmartin [atSign at 026]: My log message:isn't it special?
---------------- end results ------------------------

Observe: 

* in the first entry, "[atSign: 026]:My" with space after the first ":"; that space isn't in the format string.

* in the second entry "[atSign at 026]: My" again has an additional space after the first ":"

the colons following are unchanged.

This **seems** like it must be some obscure bug, but perhaps it's some undocumented feature?


From chasrmartin at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 18:19:28 2011
From: chasrmartin at gmail.com (Charlie Martin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:19:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
In-Reply-To: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <10658976.1704.1321917568761.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Oops, forgot the python version etc:

bash $ /usr/bin/env python -V
Python 2.7

On SuSE 11.4

bash $ uname -a
Linux crmartin 2.6.37.6-0.9-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-10-19 22:33:27 +0200 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 19:07:45 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:07:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2884.1321842811.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4f3c8fa8-c792-4afc-8e69-ef65538e5121@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 12:44?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
> > languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement of
> > when it's right to use this language above others. For example, Python
> > is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.
>
> "Python will save the world"
>
> http://proyectojuanchacon.blogspot.com/2010/07/saving-world-with-pyth...
>
> --
> Steven

The language, psuedo name Unit, will be a low-level language capable
of replacing C in most contexts. However, it will have integrated
functional programming features (tail-end recursion optimization,
tuples, currying, closures, function objects, etc.) and dynamic
features (prototypical inheritance and late binding).

It is a hybrid between C#, C++, F#, Python and JavaScript. The hope is
that you won't pay for features you don't use, so it will run well on
embedded devices as well as on desktops - that's to be seen. I'm no
master compiler builder, here.

The functional code is pretty basic:

let multiply = function x y: return x * y # automatic generic
arguments (integer here)
let double = multiply _ 2 # short-hand currying - inlined if possible
let doubled = [|0..10|].Apply(double) # double zero through 10

The dynamic code is pretty simple too:

dynamic Prototype = function value: self.Value = value # simulated
ctor
Prototype.Double = function: self.Value * 2 # self refers to instance
new Prototype(5).Double() # 10
new Prototype(6).Double() # 12
dynamic x = 5 # five wrapped with a bag
x.Double = function: self * 2
x.Double() # 10
dynamic y = 6
y.Double = x.Double # member sharing
y.Double() #12

The language also sports OOP features like are found in Java or C#:
single inheritance; multiple interface inheritance; sealed, virtual
and abstract types and members; explicit inheritance; extension
methods and namespaces.

The coolest feature will be its generics-oriented function signatures.
By default everything is generic. You apply constraints to parameters,
rather than specific types. For instance:

let Average = function values:
    where values is ICountable<Integer32> IIterable<Integer32>
    assert values.Count > 0 "The values list cannot be empty."
    throws ArgumentException
    returns Float64
    let sum = 0
    for value in values:
        sum += value
    return sum / values.Count # floating point division

As you can see, the function headers can be larger than the bodies
themselves. They support type constraints, assertions (argument
checking), exceptions enumeration, default parameters and return type
information. All of them can be left out if the type of arguments can
be inferred.

This will not be an overnight project. :-)


From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 21 19:25:03 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:25:03 -0500
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-38AE1C.19250321112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm reading the Essential SQLAlchemy book from O'Reilly.

Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the 
other direction.  Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 19:32:30 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:32:30 +1100
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <jaelno$e20$2@reader1.panix.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2933.1321908148.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaelks$e20$1@reader1.panix.com> <jaelno$e20$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpoAnJQ+mDDFL=48vxr7QpcGSmOEBnQTJonPdkXhbqAWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Like the old joke:
>>
>> ? There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand
>> ? binary numbers, and those who don't.
>
> OK, it's not _much_ of a joke, but I don't get to use it very often,
> so I couldn't let it go (for one thing, it only works in "print").

On a scale of 1 to 10, what is the probability that this is in binary?

There's plenty of great binary jokes going around.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Nov 21 19:48:42 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:48:42 +0000
Subject: mask one array using another array
In-Reply-To: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECAF16A.7080707@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 21/11/2011 21:42, questions anon wrote:
> I am trying to mask one array using another array.
>
> I have created a masked array using
> mask=MA.masked_equal(myarray,0),
> that looks something like:
> [1  -  -  1,
>   1  1  -  1,
>   1  1  1  1,
>   -   1  -  1]
>
> I have an array of values that I want to mask whereever my mask has a a '-'.
> how do I do this?
> I have looked at
> http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/masks.pdf but
> the command:
>
> d = array(a, mask=c.mask()
>
> results in this error:
> TypeError: 'numpy.ndarray' object is not callable
>
> I basically want to do exactly what that article does in that equation.
>
> Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
>
The article is using the Numeric module, but your error says that you're 
using
the numpy module. They're not the same.


From questions.anon at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 20:37:57 2011
From: questions.anon at gmail.com (questions anon)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:37:57 +1100
Subject: mask one array using another array
In-Reply-To: <4ECAF16A.7080707@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ECAF16A.7080707@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAN_=ogs3Nn2CQxpJeoxBjhULhygUgWvcoSzbjOsgxfWHWfHiJw@mail.gmail.com>

thank you, that makes sense.
 I should have posted this on another list (which I have now). and the
change required is:

If your new array is x, you can use:

numpy.ma.masked_array(x, mask=mask.mask)

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:48 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> On 21/11/2011 21:42, questions anon wrote:
>
>> I am trying to mask one array using another array.
>>
>> I have created a masked array using
>> mask=MA.masked_equal(myarray,**0),
>> that looks something like:
>> [1  -  -  1,
>>  1  1  -  1,
>>  1  1  1  1,
>>  -   1  -  1]
>>
>> I have an array of values that I want to mask whereever my mask has a a
>> '-'.
>> how do I do this?
>> I have looked at
>> http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/**climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/**masks.pdf<http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/masks.pdf>but
>> the command:
>>
>> d = array(a, mask=c.mask()
>>
>> results in this error:
>> TypeError: 'numpy.ndarray' object is not callable
>>
>> I basically want to do exactly what that article does in that equation.
>>
>> Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>  The article is using the Numeric module, but your error says that you're
> using
> the numpy module. They're not the same.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From bthate at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 21:49:28 2011
From: bthate at gmail.com (Bart Thate)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:49:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JSONBOT 0.80.3 RELEASED
Message-ID: <29575735.33.1321930168912.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Hello world !! I released JSONBOT 0.80.3 .. the first in the 0.80 series ;]

about
~~~~~

JSONBOT is a chatbot that can take commands and react to events on the network it is connected to (IRC, XMPP, WEB
mostely). Push functionality is also provided (think RSS feeds to your IRC channel or XMPP conference). It is possible to program your own plugins to create custom
functionality. 

source/docs
~~~~~~~~~~~

 see http://jsonbot.org and http://jsonbot.googlecode.com


make backup first
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I added the jsb-backup program, please run this before starting the 0.80 bot. It will make a backup of your datadir into ~/jsb-backups

changes
~~~~~~~

* GAE is no longer part of the standard distribution, as that is aimed at shell users as of 0.80 - use the mercurial repo if you want to use the GAE part of the bot
* web console is now supported on shell - use the jsb-tornado program to launch a tornado web server bot on port 10102 
* jsb-xmpp now supports OpenFire - use --openfire option to enable this
* todo now uses per user databases instead of per channel - use the -c option to the todo command to show the channel todo
* learn items are not global per default - use !learn-toglobal to copy local learn data to the global learndb
* relay plugins has been rewritten to use bot.cfg.name as well - means that relays need to be created again  
* jsb-udpstripped program has been added that can be used to send udp data to the bot without the need of making config files (copy and edit it)
* add fulljids = 1 to your xmpp bot config (most of the times in ~/.jsb/config/fleet/default-sxmpp/config) to enable full JID discovery in xmpp conference rooms
  (non anonymous)

and:

* lots of new plugins .. see !list ;]
* lots of bug fixes - thnx everybody for reporting them
* still lots of things to fix at 

03:35 < jsonbot> tracker is http://code.google.com/p/jsonbot/issues/list

If you find any problems or have feature request please post that on the tracker url above.

Or try @botfather on #dunkbots on irc.freenode.net ;]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 21:51:00 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:51:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-38AE1C.19250321112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 22, 10:25?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the
> other direction. ?Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?

I've never found SQLAlchemy to be anything but sane and approachable.
It's really worth understanding _how_ it works so you can see there's
no magic happening there.

What cost do you see inherit in the use of SQLAlchemy?


From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 21:58:53 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:58:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
References: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<7c77f2c4-09a5-4b5d-b162-b282688c0409@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5c8c69d-e27a-4964-8c55-110b2268e8b5@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 10:29?am, GZ <zyzhu2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Nov 21, 7:42?am, ray <r... at aarden.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I don't see how to get my data from the output. ?I can see the data in
> > the rows but it is mixed in with the field names. ?That is, the data I
> > get comes out as:
> > fieldname1 : data1 , fieldname2 : data2 , etc.
>
> > import csv
> > linelist=open( "C:/Users/me/line_list_r0.csv", "rb" )
> > csvReader= csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> > for data in csvReader:
> > ? ? ? ? print data
> > linelist.close()
>
> > I want to pass this data as arrays or lists to another module such as:
> > myfunction(data1, data2, data3)
>
> > How do I get the data I want out of the pair fieldname1 : data1?
>
> > Thanks,
> > ray
>
> It returns a dict(). You can reference the fields with
> data['fieldname1'], etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

GZ,

That works great.

Thanks,
ray


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:00:46 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:00:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Comments?

Please don't start multiple threads on the same issue.


From nytrokiss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:03:06 2011
From: nytrokiss at gmail.com (James Matthews)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:03:06 -0500
Subject: JSONBOT 0.80.3 RELEASED
In-Reply-To: <29575735.33.1321930168912.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
References: <29575735.33.1321930168912.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
Message-ID: <CAGxnUUz1vh9v7Qcd2DrhxQcnmhYNqVjYX3YwR2wer8RJby0w6A@mail.gmail.com>

Looks good I am going to plug twisted into this.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Bart Thate <bthate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello world !! I released JSONBOT 0.80.3 .. the first in the 0.80 series ;]
>
> about
> ~~~~~
>
> JSONBOT is a chatbot that can take commands and react to events on the
> network it is connected to (IRC, XMPP, WEB
> mostely). Push functionality is also provided (think RSS feeds to your IRC
> channel or XMPP conference). It is possible to program your own plugins to
> create custom
> functionality.
>
> source/docs
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>  see http://jsonbot.org and http://jsonbot.googlecode.com
>
>
> make backup first
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I added the jsb-backup program, please run this before starting the 0.80
> bot. It will make a backup of your datadir into ~/jsb-backups
>
> changes
> ~~~~~~~
>
> * GAE is no longer part of the standard distribution, as that is aimed at
> shell users as of 0.80 - use the mercurial repo if you want to use the GAE
> part of the bot
> * web console is now supported on shell - use the jsb-tornado program to
> launch a tornado web server bot on port 10102
> * jsb-xmpp now supports OpenFire - use --openfire option to enable this
> * todo now uses per user databases instead of per channel - use the -c
> option to the todo command to show the channel todo
> * learn items are not global per default - use !learn-toglobal to copy
> local learn data to the global learndb
> * relay plugins has been rewritten to use bot.cfg.name as well - means
> that relays need to be created again
> * jsb-udpstripped program has been added that can be used to send udp data
> to the bot without the need of making config files (copy and edit it)
> * add fulljids = 1 to your xmpp bot config (most of the times in
> ~/.jsb/config/fleet/default-sxmpp/config) to enable full JID discovery in
> xmpp conference rooms
>  (non anonymous)
>
> and:
>
> * lots of new plugins .. see !list ;]
> * lots of bug fixes - thnx everybody for reporting them
> * still lots of things to fix at
>
> 03:35 < jsonbot> tracker is http://code.google.com/p/jsonbot/issues/list
>
> If you find any problems or have feature request please post that on the
> tracker url above.
>
> Or try @botfather on #dunkbots on irc.freenode.net ;]
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://www.goldwatches.com

--
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From nytrokiss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:13:57 2011
From: nytrokiss at gmail.com (James Matthews)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:13:57 -0500
Subject: Multiple Threads - I/O in Same File
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D407@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D407@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxnUUxNC-JaXWrEd6sxC_dgPFzFtF-mjd34D-SWjqcsaf9ewg@mail.gmail.com>

You may have some issues with disk reading as the drive heads move in
different ways

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM, <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:

> Hi All,****
>
> ** **
>
> Just a question in general.  Is it possible that we have opened one file
> in r+ mode ( file1.txt ). ****
>
> We have 2 threads, ****
>
> **?         **Thread1 will continuously ?only read? the file in a loop. **
> **
>
> **?         **Thread2 will only update the data in the file ( say a
> number < 100 ). ****
>
> Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell using
> subprocess.call() ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing )
> into that file by their own file i/o mechanism.****
>
> ** **
>
> Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different
> processes one is only updating and other is only reading ..? Will this work
> in practical and what can be the complications ?****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Nikunj****
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


-- 
http://www.goldwatches.com

--
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From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:16:14 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:16:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2868.1321809679.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f4566d79-1789-4919-a3e1-228297a2313f@h21g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 20, 12:21?pm, Gelonida N <gelon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, that this is at the moment more a thought
> experiment, than a real need.
>
> At the moment I will do exactly what you suggested. I will make sure,
> that always the first import fails.
>
> But I wanted to learn more what is possible and which potential can of
> worms I would open if I wanted to unimport a library of which I'm sure
> that nobody is currently referencing (or refering? Not sure about my
> English here) to.

Get how many references to an object:
sys.getrefcount(sys)


From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 21 22:18:05 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:18:05 -0500
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-38AE1C.19250321112011@news.panix.com>
	<8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F87DE4.22180421112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498 at t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
 alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Nov 22, 10:25?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> > Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the
> > other direction. ?Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?
> 
> I've never found SQLAlchemy to be anything but sane and approachable.
> It's really worth understanding _how_ it works so you can see there's
> no magic happening there.
> 
> What cost do you see inherit in the use of SQLAlchemy?

The cost of understanding how it works :-)

Seriously.  I understand SQL.  Well, I'm not a SQL wizard, but I 
understand enough to do what I need to do.  Whenever I have to use 
SQLAlchemy, I always find myself knowing exactly what SQL I want to 
write and scratching my head to figure out how to translate that into 
SQLAlchemy calls.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:22:43 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:22:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting problem about uuid1
References: <b7d765ef-9833-4f31-8107-e2461b06c9c0@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43572d62-7afc-4554-a212-4271ee5355e5@o37g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 5:33?pm, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
> My colleague asks me an interesting problem about uuid library in
> python. In multicore system with multiprocessing, is it possible to
> get the duplicated uuid with uuid1?
>
> I just check the RFC 4122, and I can't find anything about multicore
> environment. Python's uuid1 method generates the uuid with time stamp,
> mac address, and algorithm to gen random numbers. So, I think it's
> possible to get the duplicate uuid1 at the same time.
>
> What about you? Hope for your reply

Check the library documentation: http://docs.python.org/library/uuid.html

uuid.uuid1([node[, clock_seq]])
Generate a UUID from a host ID, sequence number, and the current time.
If node is not given, getnode() is used to obtain the hardware
address. If clock_seq is given, it is used as the sequence number;
otherwise a random 14-bit sequence number is chosen.

Each process would have to not only execute at the exact same time, it
would have to generate the same 14-bit random sequence. And if you're
really concerned, try specifying a different clock_seq for each core.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 21 22:54:43 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Nov 2011 03:54:43 GMT
Subject: decorators and closures
References: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecb1d03$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:44:34 +0000, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always
> executed, every time I call a nested function:

"def" is a statement which is executed at runtime. Often people will talk 
about "definition time" instead of "compile time".

Python compiles your source into byte code (compile time), then executes 
the byte code. The function doesn't actually get created until the byte 
code is executed, i.e. at run time. This is not as slow as it sounds, 
because the function is created from pre-compiled parts.

In effect, if you have a module:

x = 23
def spam(a):
    print x
    print x+1
    return x**3


then the body of the function is compiled into a "code object" at compile 
time, and at runtime the function object itself is assembled from the 
code object, name, and whatever other bits and pieces are needed. In 
pseudo-code, the byte code looks like this:

bind name "x" to object 23
build a function object "spam" from code object
bind name "spam" to function object

The hard part is creating the code object, as that requires parsing the 
source code of the body and generating byte code. That's done once, ahead 
of time, so the actual "build a function" part is fast.

Now, if you have an ordinary nested function:

def spam(a):
    def ham(b):
        return a+b
    return ham(a+42)  # returns a numeric value

or a closure:

def spam(a):
    def ham(b):
        return a+b
    return ham  # returns a closure (function object)

the process is no different: the inner function doesn't get created until 
runtime, that is, when spam gets *called*. But it gets created from parts 
that were prepared earlier at compile time, and so is fast.

Add a decorator, and the basic process remains. Remember that decorator 
syntax is just syntactic sugar. This:

@decorator
def spam():
    pass

is exactly the same as this:

def spam():
    pass

spam = decorator(spam)

which clearly has to be done at runtime, not compile time. That applies 
regardless of whether the function is nested or top-level.



-- 
Steven


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Nov 22 01:06:16 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:06:16 +1100
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
In-Reply-To: <roy-F87DE4.22180421112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-F87DE4.22180421112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20111122060616.GA17562@cskk.homeip.net>

On 21Nov2011 22:18, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
| In article 
| <8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498 at t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
|  alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
| > On Nov 22, 10:25?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
| > > Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the
| > > other direction. ?Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?
| > 
| > I've never found SQLAlchemy to be anything but sane and approachable.
| > It's really worth understanding _how_ it works so you can see there's
| > no magic happening there.
| > 
| > What cost do you see inherit in the use of SQLAlchemy?
| 
| The cost of understanding how it works :-)
| 
| Seriously.  I understand SQL.  Well, I'm not a SQL wizard, but I 
| understand enough to do what I need to do.  Whenever I have to use 
| SQLAlchemy, I always find myself knowing exactly what SQL I want to 
| write and scratching my head to figure out how to translate that into 
| SQLAlchemy calls.

Are you trying to go the ORM route (make classes etc mapping to SQL
entities etc)?

I ask because I avoid ORM and mostly use the SQL syntax notation, eg:

    for node_id, attr, value in select( [ attrs.c.NODE_ID,
                                          attrs.c.ATTR,
                                          attrs.c.VALUE,
                                        ] ) \
                                .order_by(asc(attrs.c.NODE_ID)) \
                                .execute():

or:

    self.attrs.delete(self.attrs.c.NODE_ID == node_id).execute()

which I find very easy to read (self.attrs is an SQLAchemy table).

ORMs seem very cool and all, but I personally prefer to work with simple
SQL level schemae and python-level objects and classes i.e. not ORM
classes but ordinary classes that cll SQLAlchemy
select/update/delete/etc methods to manipulate the db.

For me the great strengths of SQLA are that it (1) talks to many
different backend DBs and (2) removes the need to write tediously quotes
SQL because I can write python expressions like the above that map
directly to SQL statements, and SQLA does all the quoting, conversion
etc. Reliably!

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

I sometimes wish that people would put a little more emphasis upon the
observance of the law than they do upon its enforcement. - Calvin Coolidge


From davidlujun at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 05:18:25 2011
From: davidlujun at gmail.com (David Lu)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:18:25 +0800
Subject: a qustion about import that really confuses me
Message-ID: <CAAmfJ3CvPnS40+WT3MH-b7B7XZ9UtvjBHM6FEYaxi6UmtSKRQg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, there.

I have two files:

a.py:

> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> print('in a')
> import b
>
> print('var')
> VAR = 1
>
> def p():
>     print('{}, {}'.format(VAR, id(VAR)))
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     VAR = -1
>     p()
>     b.p() # Where does this VAR come from?
>

b.py:

> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> print('in b')
> import a
>
> def p():
>     a.p()
>

I don't understand why there're two different VARs, which is supposed to
the same.
Is it a bug?
If I move the 'main' block to another file, everything works well.

c.py:

> # coding=UTF-8
> import a
> import b
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     a.VAR = -1
>     a.p()
>     b.p()
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 22 08:16:26 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:16:26 -0500
Subject: a qustion about import that really confuses me
In-Reply-To: <CAAmfJ3CvPnS40+WT3MH-b7B7XZ9UtvjBHM6FEYaxi6UmtSKRQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAmfJ3CvPnS40+WT3MH-b7B7XZ9UtvjBHM6FEYaxi6UmtSKRQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECBA0AA.9000800@davea.name>

On 11/22/2011 05:18 AM, David Lu wrote:
> Hi, there.
>
> I have two files:
>
> a.py:
>
>> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> print('in a')
>> import b
>>
>> print('var')
>> VAR = 1
>>
>> def p():
>>      print('{}, {}'.format(VAR, id(VAR)))
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>      VAR = -1
>>      p()
>>      b.p() # Where does this VAR come from?
>>
> b.py:
>
>> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> print('in b')
>> import a
>>
Right there is your problem.   You try to import a module that you've 
earlier used as the top-level script.  The top-level script gets a 
module name of "__main__" and this import is defining a module of "a".  
So you have two distinct modules from the same source file, as you've 
discovered.
>> def p():
>>      a.p()
>>
> I don't understand why there're two different VARs, which is supposed to
> the same.
> Is it a bug?
> If I move the 'main' block to another file, everything works well.
>
> c.py:
>
>> # coding=UTF-8
>> import a
>> import b
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>      a.VAR = -1
>>      a.p()
>>      b.p()
>>
More generally, you should avoid circular imports.  Other problems can 
occur, this is just the most blatant.   When you discover that two 
modules are using (importing) each other's resources. you should move as 
much code as necessary from one of them to a 3rd module, and both should 
import that one.

Similar problems appear in other languages, and the cure is generally 
the same.  Avoid circular dependencies.

Incidentally, using all uppercase for a name is a convention for 
constants.  Further, you explicitly request that VAR have different 
values when it's the top-level script than when it's an imported module, 
so the language is doing exactly what you request, even if not what you 
wanted.  You're lucky that the problem was so obvious.  Many mutual 
import problems are much more subtle.
-- 

DaveA



From loluengo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 09:15:37 2011
From: loluengo at gmail.com (Lorenzo)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:15:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <70a4b790-b51b-4eb9-b487-07771895056c@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

> ? ? ? ? Very interesting. ?Is there a simple way to add third-party
> libraries to these? ?I assume that for pure-Python modules you could
> just put a python file in the appropriate place and import it, but what
> about if you wanted a web app that used numpy or something? ?Is that
> feasible?
>

I cannot imagine how slow can be a python interpreter in javascript
crunching numbers using numpy, and converting those numeric libraries
(ATLAS, LAPACK,MKL,ACML) to javascript.


From aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 09:54:05 2011
From: aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com (Tiaburn Stedd)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:54:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
References: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<10658976.1704.1321917568761.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
Message-ID: <4d86a69d-e737-41ea-8e23-a67351a67994@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>


Upvote this. Looks like a bug for me.

---------------- begin results ----------------------
Nov 22 16:47:45 lvaltp0521 [minitest: 021]:My log message:isn't it
special?
Nov 22 16:47:45 lvaltp0521 [minitest at 021]: My log message:isn't it
special?
---------------- end results ------------------------

~$ python --version
Python 2.6.6


From aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 10:19:59 2011
From: aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com (Tiaburn Stedd)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:19:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Strange logging.Formatter behaviour
Message-ID: <b6c77fa2-8902-4e55-9389-6b9cd9fa7787@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

Hello, all!

I'm working on specific project and have a curious task where I need
to use specific formatter and custom handlers, which are switchable to
default handlers. Problem is that default handlers behaviour is to
consume errors, so errors raised from code have printed tracebacks,
but not passed outside logger, because of it silent behaviour.

Unit test for this is below:

import logging
import unittest

class SpecificFormatException(Exception):
    pass

class MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self, record):
       raise TypeError

class MyFormatter(logging.Formatter, object):
    def format(self, record):
        try:
            specific_format_record = MyClass(record)
        except TypeError:
            raise SpecificFormatException("Error raised")

class TestLogger(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_my_logger(self):
        self.logger = logging.getLogger(self.__class__.__name__)
        handler = logging.FileHandler('test_logger.log')
        handler.setFormatter(fmt=MyFormatter())
        self.logger.addHandler(handler)
        self.assertRaises(SpecificFormatException,
self.logger.warn,"Log something")

if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main()


I don't believe this behavior is normal. I expect error raised in a
Formatter.format function, should be passed all the way up, but not
consumed.

I found a workaround:

class CustomFileHandler(logging.FileHandler, object):
    def handleError(self, record):
         super(CustomFileHandler, self).handleError(record)
         raise

But it looks ugly to add Custom*Handler for any default Handler (like,
StreamHandler, etc) to make them possible to fall out on any error.

There are raiseException switch in source of logging/__init__.py

  92 #raiseExceptions is used to see if exceptions during handling
should be
  93 #propagated
  94 #
  95 raiseExceptions = 1

But all it switch is only is traceback printed or not. I think this
behaviour is against Zen of Python: "Errors should never pass
silently."

May be logging library should be updated to contain 2 flags:
printTracebacks and raiseExceptions ?


From bex.lewis at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 10:46:43 2011
From: bex.lewis at gmail.com (becky_lewis)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <39d7d689-6953-4ae5-84f5-83d44eb9fd39@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 8:37?pm, Passiday <passi... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?

I think you may find it a little time consuming to reimpliment python
in javascript. I'm inclined to say "go for it" though since you may
create something awesome in the process ;)

If you want to take an easier route, may I point out
pythonanywhere.com? It doesn't run in the browser but does give safe
access to multiple python interpreters and from my own use I can say
that it works pretty well. You can even set up web apps using it. For
educational purposes it might be helpful to you.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 10:57:30 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:30 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaggpe$lj9$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/21/2011 11:21 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:39:37 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
>> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. So far no response on
>> this has solved the problem.
>>
>> I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.
>>
> 	I have three computers here:
>
> -=-=-=-=-=- Desktop
> WinXP Pro 32-bit, 3.4GHz hyper-threaded P4
> ActiveState ActivePython 2.5.2.2 (Python 2.5.2)

All of the above use ActiveState. I use whatever the Python organization 
provides on their download site. I would not expect the two to compare.

>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> So, out of two generations of 32-bit Python 2.5, and 64 and 32 bit
> versions of Python 2.7, on three computers, NONE of mine have a
> right-click option for IDLE.
>
>> I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used,
>> nothing happens.  Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon
>> spins around then zip, nothing.  Further, right-clicking on Properties
>> of IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog.  It shows Start in:
>> c:\Python32\, and None for shortcut.  There is a compatibility tab,
>
> 	But what does it show for TARGET!

c:\Python32 Start in, and for Target: Python 3.2.2 (64-bit)
For the shortcut C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start 
Menu\Programs\Python3.2

>
>> Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon.
>> At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I
>> tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".
>>
> 	Possibly because you are trying to start a 32-bit version with a
> default "open" for .pyw files that runs the 64-bit Python.exe; so the
> DLLs are mixed architecture.
3.2.2 is 64-bit.
>
>
>> Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to
>> play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem.  My PC
>> behaves normally
>>
> 	Since none of your problems appear to be related to Python itself,
> but rather to the Windows configuration of the Python system, I'd have
> to disagree.
>
>> I'm using Win 7 Premium.
>
> 	Home, Pro, Ultimate (or whatever the top level is?



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 11:12:13 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:12:13 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2937.1321916900.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2937.1321916900.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaghl0$rj9$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/21/2011 3:07 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 11:39 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
>> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file.
>
> Your first criterion for success should be that IDLE runs at all, which
> is apparently does not. How you run it is secondary.
>
> Right-click responses are controlled by Windows using data in the
> registry. Windows modifies the registry in response to installers *and
> users*. The ActiveState installers request 'Edit with PythonWin'. They
> do not request 'Edit with IDLE' and it is foolish to complain to us when
> you use ActiveState and get their choice of context choices.

ActiveState. Am I missing something? I'm running 64-bit Python 
downloaded from the Python organization's web site.l

>
> The PSF .msi installers (.msi = MicroSoftInstall format) from python.org
> request 'Edit with IDLE' but cannot make Windows put it in. If your
> registry is messed up enough, it does not happen. But no error message.
>
> I have explained to you another way to work with IDLE once it runs. It
> you refuse to use it, that is your problem, not ours.
>
>> I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.
>
> You installed with the PSF installer with an ok registry.

PSF? What does "ok registry" mean?

>
>> I know at one time it worked on my 64-bit Win 7 PC, which likely had a
>> 32-bit version installed on it. After something like six months of
>> modest use it stopped working as above. No IDLE choice.
>
> So some *other* program messed things up. Stop blaming us.
> Heavy or modest use in the meantime is irrelevant.
I'm blaming you??? I was just providing data for whatever it might be 
worth. I'm also suggesting that I do not have years of experience with 
Python.
>
>> I know by installing a 64-bit version, 3.2.2 failed the IDLE criterions
>> as described. No IDLE.
>
> Did you uninstall the 32 bit version, and best, all Python versions?
>
>> I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used,
>> nothing happens. Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon
>> spins around then zip, nothing.
>
> This is your real problem. Stop worrying about the context menu.

I would expect consistency through all Python org releases. Should I put 
consistency in really bold letters with a 30 point font? :-)

>
>  > Further, right-clicking on Properties of
>> IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog. It shows Start in: c:\Python32\,
>
> This is the Shortcut tab. A shortcut is like a bound method. The
> function is the target: 'python 3.2.2 (64 bit)' on my machine. The
> starting directory is like a bound argument, although it is passed to
> the launcher that launches the function. What the Properties dialog does
> not show are the actual 'bound arguments' that are passed to the target
> as options. So one cannot know what the shortcut is actually trying to
> do. This is one of the Really Stupid things about Windows that should
> have been fixed long ago but has not.

I never use the shortcut on the Start menu. I mentioned the Start menu, 
since it might have some relevance.

>
>> and None for shortcut.
>
> None for Shortcut key, such as alt-I to invoke the shortcut.
>
>> There is a compatibility tab, which I've set to
>> Win7. I think there's a troubleshooter there too, but I haven't used it.
>> Under the Details tab, it shows Name: IDLE(Python Gui).lnk. Folder Path
>> as: c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start... Nothing after the "...".
>
> Details: Folder Path is the same as General: Location. Mouse over the
> latter the the full path appears. That Properties windows are still
> fixed at 480 pixel wide, regardless of screen size, is another Really
> Stupid thing.

Yes, I finally realized I could mouse over it.

>
>> Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon.
>> At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I
>> tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".
>
> If the registry entry for .pyw is messed up, trying to run the file by
> clicking on it is not likely to work. Try running from Command Prompt,
> as I believe others suggested.

I'm not trying to run the program, I'm trying to edit. Several times in 
these threads I've mentioned I can execute python from the command line.

>
>> When I rebooted my system a few hours after installing 3.2.2, because
>> the PC was running really slowly--not because of Python, I was greeted
>> by a couple of interesting messages as the desktop was populated.
>>
>> I can execute Python from the command line.
>>
>> 1. Specified module could not be found: Load Lib, python.dll.
>>
>> 2. \ProgramFiles(x86)\uniblueDrivers\Scanner (x86) Python26.dll.
>
> The uniblue drivers program will match your drivers against a database
> of up-to-date drivers and offer to upgrade them. I have used uniblue's
> registry scanner program. Treating pythonxy.dll as a driver, if they
> are, is an error. These are paid programs. The free demos only scan to
> tell you what they would do if you bought them.

Yes. Just Winamp looking for $$$.

>
>  > I'm sure this is related to Winamp, which I had installed a month ago.
>
> I do not believe they are the same companies, but they may have a
> cross-promotion deal.
Evidently.
>
>> had some "crazy" choice to scan for new drivers. Of course, if it found
>> one-connected with Python, and if you wanted it, $$$. I think this
>> message is a red herring. I may re-install Winamp to get rid of that
>> uniblue tool that seems like nothing more than an ad.
>>
>> Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to
>> play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem. My PC
>> behaves normally
>
> If you ran the psf 3.2.2 installer and idle does not run when you click
> the start menu shortcut, something is wrong.
Of course. Assuming psf means something like python software foundation.
>
>> Someone suggested using the mail list at
>> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's different
>> about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that the
>> inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the people who
>> are responsible for constructing Python?
>
> Python list is mirror to comp.lang.python which is mirrored to a google
> group. It is also mirrored to gmane.comp.python, which is how I read and
> post. There is some spam filtering if you use the python.org list or
> gmane group.
>
Good. Then I don't need it.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 11:14:16 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:14:16 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/21/2011 7:00 PM, alex23 wrote:
> "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Comments?
>
> Please don't start multiple threads on the same issue.
Your joking, right, or do you just prefer 500 line threads wandering all 
over the place?


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov 22 11:21:10 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:21:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Strange logging.Formatter behaviour
References: <b6c77fa2-8902-4e55-9389-6b9cd9fa7787@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bd0ef581-0743-4fd2-8fc2-ad647865f8ff@h3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 22, 3:19?pm, Tiaburn Stedd <aleksandrs.zdanc... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't believe this behavior is normal. I expect error raised in a
> Formatter.format function, should be passed all the way up, but not
> consumed.
>
> I found a workaround:
>
> class CustomFileHandler(logging.FileHandler, object):
> ? ? def handleError(self, record):
> ? ? ? ? ?super(CustomFileHandler, self).handleError(record)
> ? ? ? ? ?raise
>
> But it looks ugly to add Custom*Handler for any default Handler (like,
> StreamHandler, etc) to make them possible to fall out on any error.
>
> There are raiseException switch in source of logging/__init__.py
>
> ? 92 #raiseExceptions is used to see if exceptions during handling
> should be
> ? 93 #propagated
> ? 94 #
> ? 95 raiseExceptions = 1
>
> But all it switch is only is traceback printed or not. I think this
> behaviour is against Zen of Python: "Errors should never pass
> silently."

They don't pass silently - raiseExceptions defaults to 1, so
tracebacks are printed by default. In production, it's not a good idea
for a potentially long-running process like a server to be brought
down because someone put a typo in a logging format string, so the
recommendation is to set raiseExceptions to 0/False in such scenarios.

Since you are developing a custom formatter, you can certainly catch
any formatting exceptions in your format method and decide what you
want to do with them.

The default handleError behaviour of printing a traceback is
reasonable, in my view. If you want something else, you can subclass
the relevant handler class; just setting a printTracebacks flag to
false isn't going to get useful behaviour specific to individual
requirements.

There's no real point in throwing a very specific exception from a
formatter, as a handler isn't going to automatically know how to
handle a SpecificFormatException in any meaningful way. Remember that
in the general case, application developers don't always have control
of what handlers are configured for an application (for example, this
could be set by end-user or per-deployment configuration).

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Nov 22 12:03:42 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24059779.511.1321981422154.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prou19>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44:34 PM UTC+8, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
> executed, every time I call
> a nested function:
> 
> def dec(fn):
>      print("In decorator")
>      def _dec():
>          fn()
> 
>      return _dec
> 
> def nested():
>      @dec
>      def fun():
>          print("here")
> 
> nested()
> nested()
> 
> Will give:
> In decorator
> In decorator
> 
> So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
> somehow?
> I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)

I love to use decorators. I did the same things to  functions and structures in c long time ago. I think that  might be  the dark night era in  programming  in the early 90's long long ago. 

Cheers.   


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Nov 22 12:03:42 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24059779.511.1321981422154.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prou19>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44:34 PM UTC+8, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
> executed, every time I call
> a nested function:
> 
> def dec(fn):
>      print("In decorator")
>      def _dec():
>          fn()
> 
>      return _dec
> 
> def nested():
>      @dec
>      def fun():
>          print("here")
> 
> nested()
> nested()
> 
> Will give:
> In decorator
> In decorator
> 
> So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
> somehow?
> I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)

I love to use decorators. I did the same things to  functions and structures in c long time ago. I think that  might be  the dark night era in  programming  in the early 90's long long ago. 

Cheers.   


From RDRichardson at rad-con.com  Tue Nov 22 13:32:53 2011
From: RDRichardson at rad-con.com (Rob Richardson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:32:53 +0000
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
Message-ID: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD0A5@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>

Greetings!

My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

Thank you.

RobR


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 13:37:32 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:37:32 -0500
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECBEBEC.2010300@yahoo.com>

On 11/20/2011 7:46 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. ...

I have great respect for people who take on projects like this.

Your chances of popularizing the language are small.  There must be 
thousands of projects like this for every one that gets adopted by other 
people.  However your chances of learning a great deal are large, 
including many things that you'll be able to apply to programs and 
projects that, at first glance, wouldn't appear to benefit from this 
kind of experience.  If you get it working you'll have an impressive 
item to add to your resume.

I suspect that you'll also have a lot of fun.

Good luck with it.

     Alan


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 13:55:22 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:55:22 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>

On 11/21/2011 11:39 AM, W. eWatson wrote:

> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. So far no response on
> this has solved the problem.  ...

I don't know what responses you're referring to since this is the first 
posting in the thread.  It's possible what I'm about to say was already 
told to you - in which case I'm wasting my and everyone's time.

However, leaving that aside, I think that this is trivially easy to 
solve.  It has nothing whatever to do with Python or Idle - though it's 
possible that the Python installer could have done something for that it 
didn't - and it's also possible that the Python installer did what you 
told it to do but you told it the wrong thing, or you told Windows to 
change it without realizing that you did.  (I do that all the time.  A 
mouse slip and inadvertent click on the wrong object, a misunderstanding 
of a prompt, or lots of other missteps can change things without your 
having any idea what happened.)

Anyway, if I understand what you're looking for, here's what you need to 
do to fix your problem:

1. Open Windows Explorer.

2. Navigate to a Python file.

3. Right click on the Python file with the mouse.

4. Select "Open With"

5. Select "Choose Default Program"

6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.

7. Check the box that says "Always use the selected program to open this 
kind of file."

8. Click "OK".

The prompts I described above are the ones I saw on my Windows Server 
2008 machine.  Yours may vary slightly, but I think the procedures 
should be the same.

Please let us know if that solves your problem.

     Alan


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 14:15:47 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:15:47 +0000
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECBF4E3.9000007@gmail.com>

On 11/22/2011 04:14 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Your joking, right, or do you just prefer 500 line threads wandering
> all over the place?

I would personally prefer to just not see useless discussions about
Windows set up in a python mailing list,
but I guess it's a price to pay for the popularity of Python..


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 14:29:18 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:29:18 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>

On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
...
> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
...
On my system that's
   C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe

Alan


From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Tue Nov 22 14:41:00 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:41:00 +0100
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 22-11-11 19:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

The logging module from Python's stdlib?
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.html

Irmen




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 22 17:50:35 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:50:35 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jago24$7bs$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaggpe$lj9$1@dont-email.me> <jago24$7bs$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jah90a$7jj$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/22/2011 1:01 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>> c:\Python32 Start in, and for Target: Python 3.2.2 (64-bit)
>
> 	Which tells me that the TARGET field is garbaged,

The above is exactly what my IDLE shortcut target field says, and it 
works fine.

> since THAT is what specifies the program (and arguments)
 > that has to be run when the shortcut is double-clicked.

It would be nice if it DID show all that info.

> Try editing the target field to read (presuming the 3.x branch of
> Python keeps the same library structure):
>
> c:\python32\lib\idlelib\idle.bat
>
> save the change, and then select the short-cut to see if it runs.

Target for the .msi created shortcut cannot be edited, even as admin.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 22:29:57 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:29:57 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/22/2011 11:29 AM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> ...
>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
> ...
> On my system that's
> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>
> Alan
OK, I'm going to try it soon. Keeping my fingers crossed.


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 22:45:41 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:45:41 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2955.1321992362.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2955.1321992362.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ECC6C65.2090902@yahoo.com>

On 11/22/2011 3:05 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:29:18 -0500, Alan Meyer<ameyer2 at yahoo.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>> ...
>>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
>> ...
>> On my system that's
>>     C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>>
> 	Note that this is not the Tk based IDLE (which is implemented,
> itself, as a .pyw file and is not natively executable -- which seems to
> be one of the problems; Win7 has removed the detailed file type
> association windows so you can't specify that the "application" is
> pythonw.exe running idle.pyw using one's selected file as the argument
> to the mess).

Bummer!

Sorry W.eWatson, my instructions may not work.  I've got the ActiveState 
Python on my Windows machine.  It runs a .exe file as the IDLE 
executable.  If your implementation doesn't have an exe then you're 
going to have to do some more complex work.

Since I don't have the version of Python from python.org under Windows, 
I can't really advise on what to do with that.  If you haven't got an 
exe, my instructions will only work if you install the ActiveState 
version, which does have one.

     Alan


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 22:46:01 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:46:01 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/22/2011 7:29 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/22/2011 11:29 AM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>> ...
>>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
>> ...
>> On my system that's
>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>>
>> Alan
> OK, I'm going to try it soon. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Well, all there was there was a README.txt file that told me the purpose 
of the folder.
"This directory exists so that 3rd party packages can be installed
here.  Read the source for site.py for more details."

Of course, Dennis'
C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
wouldn't work either.

I did a Win 7 search Pythonwin.exe, and found nothing. However, 
sometimes that search fails even when though there is something on the 
PC that matches the search.

There is a pythonw.exe under C:\Python32.


From snorble at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 00:19:21 2011
From: snorble at hotmail.com (snorble)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:19:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
Message-ID: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Sometimes I want to prototype a program in Python, with the idea of
optimizing it later by rewriting parts of it in C or Cython. But I
usually find that in order to rewrite the slow parts, I end up writing
those parts very much like C or C++ anyway, and I end up wondering
what is the point of using Python in such a project.

I liked the idea of Cython, mainly the idea of being able to write in
pure Python, then create a file that modifies the pure Python file
(with type declarations and such), but I ran into the same problems.
In order to be able to modify the code, I can't make a lot of use of
the really helpful things in Python like dicts and such. I have to
dumb down Python to where I'm basically writing C code in Python, so
again I ask myself what is the point?

Is it reasonable to prototype an application in Python that will
require performance? Are there any recommendations on how to write
code in such a way that it can later be optimized or replaced with a
module written in C or Cython? Or any good examples of this being done
that I could learn from?


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Wed Nov 23 00:44:50 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:44:50 -0500
Subject: Thread problem
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D616@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Howdy All,

Please see http://pastebin.com/GuwH8B5C .
Its a sample program implementing progressbar in multithreaded program.
Here I am creating a thread and passing update2() function to it.

Now wheneever I press CTRL-C, the program isnt returning to prompt. !

Can someone help me out with this please. !

Thanks
Nikunj
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 01:45:07 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:45:07 +1100
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
In-Reply-To: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp-H22fO5RxLQ-SrK8N1=WtZO_oH4kYKOeGmm2t2-Rqfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:19 PM, snorble <snorble at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sometimes I want to prototype a program in Python, with the idea of
> optimizing it later by rewriting parts of it in C or Cython. But I
> usually find that in order to rewrite the slow parts, I end up writing
> those parts very much like C or C++ anyway, and I end up wondering
> what is the point of using Python in such a project.

There's a few ways to prototype. If you use Python as the language of
your specs documents (or pseudo-Python, perhaps) - consider the entire
Python implementation as ephemeral, and use it to verify that your
specifications are correct, but not for any sort of performance - then
it doesn't matter that you've rewritten it completely, nor that you've
written C code in Python. You would have been writing C code in
English otherwise, anyway.

If you're not sure which parts you're prototyping (ie will rewrite in
C/C++) and which parts you're writing properly (ie will keep the
Python version as the production code), I'd still recommend using all
of Python's best features... but keep your function docstrings
comprehensive. When you rewrite it in C, you're able to take advantage
of what you learned first time around, but otherwise it's just
strictly reimplementing the docstring in a different environment.

Chris Angelico


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 01:48:19 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:48:19 -0600
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
	withregard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com><4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me><jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019677F1@mail.sunedison.com>

I just subscribed for python and I am VERY NEW. I would like to have a
an IDLE. My texts are just the same whether it is comment or def or
statement or ...... how am I going to make it highlighted ..my
scientific package is not working and complaining about not able to
find/load DLL ... frustrating for the first day in the python world. ANY
tip ?

Thanks

Alemu

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Dennis Lee Bieber
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:43 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
withregard to IDLE.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:46:01 -0800, "W. eWatson"
<wolftracks at invalid.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> 
> Of course, Dennis'
> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
> wouldn't work either.
>
	If you didn't install an ActiveState packaged version, nor hand
installed the win32 extension package into a Python.org installed
system, you won't have PythonWin.
 
> I did a Win 7 search Pythonwin.exe, and found nothing. However, 
> sometimes that search fails even when though there is something on the

> PC that matches the search.
> 
> There is a pythonw.exe under C:\Python32.

	And has been mentioned at least three times in the last week --
pythonw.exe is the version of the Python interpreter that is supposed to
be the default application for .pyw files. It is the version that does
NOT open a console window for stdin/stdout (IOWs, it is meant for use by
Python scripts that use a graphical library for all I/O -- Tk, wxPython,
etc.). If you ran a graphical script using the plain python.exe it would
open a console window that would just sit there until the script exited.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Nov 23 02:37:53 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:37:53 +0100
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
In-Reply-To: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jai7sj$nvk$1@dough.gmane.org>

snorble, 23.11.2011 06:19:
> Sometimes I want to prototype a program in Python, with the idea of
> optimizing it later by rewriting parts of it in C or Cython. But I
> usually find that in order to rewrite the slow parts, I end up writing
> those parts very much like C or C++ anyway, and I end up wondering
> what is the point of using Python in such a project.
>
> I liked the idea of Cython, mainly the idea of being able to write in
> pure Python, then create a file that modifies the pure Python file
> (with type declarations and such), but I ran into the same problems.
> In order to be able to modify the code, I can't make a lot of use of
> the really helpful things in Python like dicts and such. I have to
> dumb down Python to where I'm basically writing C code in Python, so
> again I ask myself what is the point?
>
> Is it reasonable to prototype an application in Python that will
> require performance? Are there any recommendations on how to write
> code in such a way that it can later be optimized or replaced with a
> module written in C or Cython?

I think the usual approach is to write it in Python and make sure it works 
by writing "enough" tests, then benchmark it, then decide if a non-Python 
level optimisation is required.

If it's required, Cython compile the entire module and add static types to 
your hot spots, either in Python notation ("pure mode") or in an external 
.pxd file. If that doesn't yield enough performance, copy code into a 
separate Cython module and optimise it there using C paradigms instead of 
Python paradigms, i.e. apply algorithmic optimisations by dropping data 
structures into C. Then use an import to use the code from your so-called 
accelerator module in your original module. Try to provide both a pure 
Python implementation and a Cython implementation, as that will allow you 
to run your code in other Python implementations directly and to compare 
your two implementations for equivalence and performance.

The advantage of stepping down into C-ish Cython code incrementally is that 
you will have a working implementation at each step and can decide to stop 
optimising because it is "good enough". If you started 'optimising' your 
code while still writing it, it will take longer to write it and you can 
never be sure that the complexity you add to the long-term maintenance by 
writing C-ish code is truly worth the performance gain (or if there even is 
any gain).

Stefan



From as at sci.fi  Wed Nov 23 04:19:14 2011
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:19:14 +0200
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?

I don't have 2.7.2, but my Windows (7, 32 bit) machine has 3.2 installed
and also 2.6.6 included in Python(x,y) distribution.

Right clicking on a .py has, under Open with, the choices GNU
Emacsclient (my choice for editing), python.exe and pythonw.exe. No
Idle.

I was able to add idle to the menu it by clicking "Choose default
program" in the menu and pointing that to idle.bat.


From as at sci.fi  Wed Nov 23 04:23:19 2011
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:23:19 +0200
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>

goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:

> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?

Is there a shell that doesn't have history then? At least both the
vanilla shell and Idle both have basic history in Windows. IPython for
more fun.


From r32813 at freescale.com  Wed Nov 23 04:54:22 2011
From: r32813 at freescale.com (Wong Wah Meng-R32813)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:54:22 +0000
Subject: import _tclinter error in python 2.7.1 Itanium build
Message-ID: <02EA6D704E30CE499C5071776509A925F9DC74@039-SN1MPN1-002.039d.mgd.msft.net>

Hello there,

I am in the midst of converting my application code from python 1.5.2 to python 2.7.1.

In the build of my python 2.7.1 on Itanium 64-bit HP11.3 platform, I noticed my Tkinter module was built and linked successfully, that I am able to import the module and use it. However, I just found out that my application that utilizes Tcl/Tk code, somehow wants to use _tclinter, instead of using _tkinter (In fact I have a Tkinter.py file) . The only comment I can see from the author is "Have Pic use Tclinter instead of Tkinter to allow Pic to start with a valid  X Display". That comment was left at the time python 1.5.2 and tcl/tk 8.1 (maybe) was used and I am not sure if the same issue is applicable to the current version of python and tcl/tk.

However, the question I want to ask is, I build python when tcl/tk files are both available, why only tk is detected and built-in with python, not tcl?


$ python
Python 2.7.1 (r271:86832, Oct  6 2011, 11:10:10) [C] on hp-ux11
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Tkinter
>>> import Tclinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "Tclinter.py", line 5, in <module>
    import _tclinter # If this fails your Python is not configured for Tcl
ImportError: No module named _tclinter
>>> import _tclinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named _tclinter
>>> import _tkinter
>>>

Regards,
Wah Meng

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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 05:29:28 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Nov 2011 10:29:28 GMT
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:23:19 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:

> goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:
> 
>> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
>> commands?
> 
> Is there a shell that doesn't have history then? At least both the
> vanilla shell and Idle both have basic history in Windows. IPython for
> more fun.

The default interactive interpreter for Python doesn't have persistent 
history, so if you exit the interpreter and restart it, your commands are 
gone.


-- 
Steven


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Nov 23 05:37:56 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ECCCD04.1060408@timgolden.me.uk>

On 23/11/2011 10:29, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:23:19 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:
>
>> goldtech<goldtech at worldpost.com>  writes:
>>
>>> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
>>> commands?
>>
>> Is there a shell that doesn't have history then? At least both the
>> vanilla shell and Idle both have basic history in Windows. IPython for
>> more fun.
>
> The default interactive interpreter for Python doesn't have persistent
> history, so if you exit the interpreter and restart it, your commands are
> gone.

Not quite

The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function:
Open a cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.

Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window.
Do some random cmd stuff: dir, cd, etc.

Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back
the previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you
entered in the surrounding shell)

Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd session
persists -- if you simply start Python from Start > Run
twice the command history will not persist between sessions.

TJG


From k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 07:09:32 2011
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:09:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WORLD BEST PICS
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From python at bdurham.com  Wed Nov 23 07:11:16 2011
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:11:16 -0500
Subject: Choosing a Windows C compiler for use with Cython and 32-bit Python
	2.7
Message-ID: <1322050276.28050.140661002645593@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Looking for some tips on getting started with Cython development
under Windows. I am using Python 2.7.2.

After reading the Cython documentation [1] it appears that one
has a choice of using either the MinGW or MS Visual C compiler.

1. Are there any issues associated with using the MinGW compiler
and mixing C runtimes? This seems the be the simplest and fastest
way to get started with the tradeoff being the need to distribute
another C runtime (in addition to the MS C runtime required for
the Python interpreter itself)

2. Regarding the MS Visual C compiler - can one use the C
compiler that ships with one of the free Express editions of
Visual Studio or must one purchase a full version of MS Visual
Studio to get the appropriate compiler?

3. Which version (2005, 2008, 2010, ...) of MS Visual Studio is
required to compile Cython libraries compatible with the 32 bit
version of Python 2.7.2?

Thank you,
Malcolm

[1] http://docs.cython.org/src/quickstart/install.html
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From as at sci.fi  Wed Nov 23 07:16:52 2011
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:16:52 +0200
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaggpe$lj9$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2952.1321984915.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg34nxvdoej.fsf@sci.fi>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

>> c:\Python32 Start in, and for Target: Python 3.2.2 (64-bit)
>
> 	Which tells me that the TARGET field is garbaged, since THAT is what
> specifies the program (and arguments) that has to be run when the
> shortcut is double-clicked.

Actually, no, it's what I have too. 32-bit Windows 7 here and Python
3.2. The Target for the Idle shortcut is just Python 3.2. It's also
greyed out and uneditable.

So yes, weird. Mine works though and I rarely use Idle, so no
complaints.


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 23 07:27:46 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:27:46 +0100
Subject: Choosing a Windows C compiler for use with Cython and 32-bit
	Python 2.7
In-Reply-To: <1322050276.28050.140661002645593@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322050276.28050.140661002645593@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <jaios2$f13$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 23.11.2011 13:11, schrieb python at bdurham.com:
> Looking for some tips on getting started with Cython development
> under Windows. I am using Python 2.7.2.
> 
> After reading the Cython documentation [1] it appears that one
> has a choice of using either the MinGW or MS Visual C compiler.
> 
> 1. Are there any issues associated with using the MinGW compiler
> and mixing C runtimes? This seems the be the simplest and fastest
> way to get started with the tradeoff being the need to distribute
> another C runtime (in addition to the MS C runtime required for
> the Python interpreter itself)

No, don't worry. MinGW from msys can link against almost any C runtime
library.

> 2. Regarding the MS Visual C compiler - can one use the C
> compiler that ships with one of the free Express editions of
> Visual Studio or must one purchase a full version of MS Visual
> Studio to get the appropriate compiler?
> 
> 3. Which version (2005, 2008, 2010, ...) of MS Visual Studio is
> required to compile Cython libraries compatible with the 32 bit
> version of Python 2.7.2?

I've explained everything in PCbuild/readme.txt in great detail.
Summary: You can use the free VS 2088 Express Edition if you don't need
PGO or AMD64 builds.

Christian



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Nov 23 07:54:16 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
References: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <92b117a3-21b6-46ae-9063-00d85a8d3ff8@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 11:17?pm, Charlie Martin <chasrmar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is what seems like an odd bug, but in code I'd
> thing often-enough used it must be the expected behavior
> and I just don't understand. ?Please, sirs/mesdames, is
> this a bug?

It may be a bug, but if so, it's in the syslog daemon rather than
logging. Please try again with FileHandlers in place of
SysLogHandlers, and confirm whether the anomaly still occurs.

I could reproduce the problem on a Suse 11.3 machine running Python
2.6, but it doesn't occur on Ubuntu for example:

Nov 23 12:33:09 eta-jaunty [slhtest3:026]:My log message:isn't it
special?
Nov 23 12:33:09 eta-jaunty [slhtest3 at 026]:My log message:isn't it
special?

I get the same (expected) result on Ubuntu for both Python 2.6 and
2.7.

I noticed that on Suse the syslog daemon is rsyslogd, whereas on
Ubuntu it's plain syslogd. Daemons do differ on how they parse
messages :-(

I ran the script with strace, and logging is writing correctly to the
socket:

socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_DGRAM, 0)          = 3
connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/dev/log"}, 10) = 0
socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_DGRAM, 0)          = 4
connect(4, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/dev/log"}, 10) = 0
gettimeofday({1322052499, 78501}, NULL) = 0
send(3, "<14>[slhtest:026]:My log message"..., 51, 0) = 51
send(4, "<14>[slhtest at 026]:My log message"..., 51, 0) = 51
close(4)                                = 0
close(3)                                = 0

This is on Suse 11.3, where the formatting anomaly does occur - so it
appears to be down to how rsyslogd does things.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 08:31:57 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:31:57 -0500
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
References: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-7246E0.08315723112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208 at v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
 snorble <snorble at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Is it reasonable to prototype an application in Python that will
> require performance?

Yes.  Several observations:

1) The classic 80/20 rule.  80% of the time is spent running 20% of the 
code.  Sometimes quoted as 90/10.  Why waste time optimizing the 80%?

2) Surprisingly to many people, it's difficult to predict in advance 
which 20% will be the slow parts.  Don't sweat it until the whole thing 
is up and running and you can begin to gather profiling data.

3) Often enough, when you're done writing your program, you'll discover 
that it's fast enough to get value from.  Be happy and move onto the 
next task on your list.

> Are there any recommendations on how to write code in such a way that 
> it can later be optimized or replaced with a module written in C or 
> Cython?

Sure.  Make your code modular and loosely coupled.  Each module or class 
should do one thing, and have narrow, well-defined interfaces.  Limit 
the number of other modules or classes it interacts with directly.  If 
you've done that, it becomes easier to a) identify the slow parts and b) 
plug something better in its place.


From RDRichardson at rad-con.com  Wed Nov 23 09:07:34 2011
From: RDRichardson at rad-con.com (Rob Richardson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:07:34 +0000
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD182@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>

Thank you for that link.

Our customers are used to the rotating log file capability of the log4py package.  I did not see anything in that link that talks about rotating log files (changing file name when the date changes, and saving a limited number of old log files).  Is that possible using the stdlib logging package?  Is there something else available that will do that, so we don't have to roll our own (or, more likely, stick to Python 2.7, for which log4py works)?

Thanks again!

RobR

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Irmen de Jong
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:41 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?

On 22-11-11 19:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

The logging module from Python's stdlib?
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.html

Irmen

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Irmen de Jong
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:41 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?

On 22-11-11 19:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

The logging module from Python's stdlib?
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.html

Irmen


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 23 09:18:26 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:18:26 +0100
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD182@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
Message-ID: <jaivb9$uth$1@dough.gmane.org>

Rob Richardson wrote:

> Our customers are used to the rotating log file capability of the log4py
> package.  I did not see anything in that link that talks about rotating
> log files (changing file name when the date changes, and saving a limited
> number of old log files).  Is that possible using the stdlib logging
> package?  

How about

http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.handlers.html#timedrotatingfilehandler




From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 10:06:33 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:06:33 +1100
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <jaivb9$uth$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD182@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
	<jaivb9$uth$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGcLUf5HFt15MDXrOr43c-JHqU_k2JDksSCWZiADVjzr2Q@mail.gmail.com>

zing!

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:18 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Rob Richardson wrote:
>
>> Our customers are used to the rotating log file capability of the log4py
>> package. ?I did not see anything in that link that talks about rotating
>> log files (changing file name when the date changes, and saving a limited
>> number of old log files). ?Is that possible using the stdlib logging
>> package?
>
> How about
>
> http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.handlers.html#timedrotatingfilehandler
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 10:40:46 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:40:46 -0600
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
In-Reply-To: <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me> <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>


Dear All,

I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
changes everything to just black and white after saving. No color for
say the built in functions for loops defs .... they all look the same -
it is annoying for someone coming from another editors that help you
track/easily see your work. I just un installed it to install it again.
I know it is pain to install all the scientific things again. I wish
Python has something like R (R-studio) from which you can install
packages very easily. I just started yesterday and already frustrated
with it. I am sticking to python only because I hear good things about
it and I think it is my problem.

Thank you all

Alemu
    


From gordon at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 11:08:12 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:08:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
	withregard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com><4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me><jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaj5pc$kld$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list at python.org> "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse at sunedison.com> writes:

> scientific package is not working and complaining about not able to
> find/load DLL ... frustrating for the first day in the python world. ANY
> tip ?

Post the exact error message you're getting.  Also post your code, if it's
not too long.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gordon at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 11:11:25 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:11:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me> <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
	<mailman.2973.1322062878.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaj5vd$kld$2@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2973.1322062878.27778.python-list at python.org> "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse at sunedison.com> writes:

> I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
> changes everything to just black and white after saving. No color for

What editor are you using?  There are quite a lot of them.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From massi_srb at msn.com  Wed Nov 23 12:10:09 2011
From: massi_srb at msn.com (Massi)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:10:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
Message-ID: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:

This is an 'example string'

to the following vector:

["This", "is", "an", "example string"]

Which is the best way to achieve this?
Thanks in advance!


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 12:31:21 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:31:21 -0600
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B01967924@mail.sunedison.com>


Hi Everyone,

Can we use rsplit function on an array or vector of strings ? it works
for one not for vector

Alemu


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Massi
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:10 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: String splitting by spaces question

Hi everyone,

I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:

This is an 'example string'

to the following vector:

["This", "is", "an", "example string"]

Which is the best way to achieve this?
Thanks in advance!
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Nov 23 12:33:55 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:33:55 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/22/2011 10:43 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:46:01 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> Of course, Dennis'
>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>> wouldn't work either.
>>
> 	If you didn't install an ActiveState packaged version, nor hand
> installed the win32 extension package into a Python.org installed
> system, you won't have PythonWin.
>
>> I did a Win 7 search Pythonwin.exe, and found nothing. However,
>> sometimes that search fails even when though there is something on the
>> PC that matches the search.
>>
>> There is a pythonw.exe under C:\Python32.
>
> 	And has been mentioned at least three times in the last week --
> pythonw.exe is the version of the Python interpreter that is supposed to
> be the default application for .pyw files. It is the version that does
> NOT open a console window for stdin/stdout (IOWs, it is meant for use by
> Python scripts that use a graphical library for all I/O -- Tk, wxPython,
> etc.). If you ran a graphical script using the plain python.exe it would
> open a console window that would just sit there until the script exited.
Glad to hear you're keeping count. :-) I'll pin it on my wall. Don't use 
graphics.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Nov 23 12:35:04 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:35:04 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
	withregard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jaj5pc$kld$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com><4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me><jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaj5pc$kld$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jajasb$6jj$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 8:08 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list at python.org>  "Alemu Tadesse"<atadesse at sunedison.com>  writes:
>
>> scientific package is not working and complaining about not able to
>> find/load DLL ... frustrating for the first day in the python world. ANY
>> tip ?
>
> Post the exact error message you're getting.  Also post your code, if it's
> not too long.
>
And post it in a new thread.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Nov 23 12:38:36 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:38:36 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>

So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at 
an end.

It may be time to move on to c++.



From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 12:40:37 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:40:37 +0000
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1aoO3hZg=dnLAK7b2=ad8iQRA5i4ZiiAb7Dk937MfebkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2011 17:10, Massi <massi_srb at msn.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
> that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
> must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
>
> This is an 'example string'
>
> to the following vector:

You mean "list"

> ["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
>

Here's a way:

>>> s = "This is an 'example string' with 'quotes again'"
>>> [x for i, p in enumerate(s.split("'")) for x in ([p] if i%2 else p.split())]
['This', 'is', 'an', 'example string', 'with', 'quotes again']

-- 
Arnaud


From nicholas.dokos at hp.com  Wed Nov 23 12:51:12 2011
From: nicholas.dokos at hp.com (Nick Dokos)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:51:12 -0500
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
In-Reply-To: Message from "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse@sunedison.com> of "Wed,
	23 Nov 2011 11:31:21 CST."
	<6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B01967924@mail.sunedison.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
	<6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B01967924@mail.sunedison.com>
Message-ID: <27191.1322070672@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org>

Alemu Tadesse <atadesse at sunedison.com> wrote:

> Can we use rsplit function on an array or vector of strings ? it works
> for one not for vector

> ...
> 
> I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
> that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
> must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
> 
> This is an 'example string'
> 
> to the following vector:
> 
> ["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
> 
> Which is the best way to achieve this?
> Thanks in advance!

You can use a list comprehension:

l2 = [x.rsplit(...) for x in l]

But for the original question, maybe the csv module would be
more useful: you can change delimiters and quotechars to match
your input:

    import csv
    reader = csv.reader(open("foo.txt", "rb"), delimiter=' ', quotechar="'")
    for row in reader:
        print row

Nick


From kliateni at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 13:04:54 2011
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:04:54 +0100
Subject: Template class and class design on concrete example xl2csv writer
Message-ID: <4ECD35C6.4070306@gmail.com>

Hello All,

I have the following code and I am quite satisfied with its design BUT I 
have the feeling I can do better.
Basically the, main() execute the program (I did not put the parsing of 
arguments function). I am opening
an Excel document and writing content in a CSV one w/ different format. 
The design is an abstract template
class XLWriter, and derived  'Xl2Csv', 'Xl2Scsv', 'Xl2text' classes to 
write the correct ASCII DOCUMENT to correct format.
The property hook method file_format is implement in these classes and 
return an object of type 'XlCsvFileFormat' or 'XlTabFileFormat'.
It allows to put the right file extension and delimiter. These class are 
derived from standard csv.excel and csv.excel_tab.
At last a Factory class MakeXlWriter has the job to create the correct 
writer.

For now I did not add a strategy pattern which usually goes with the 
Template pattern.

Except from that all better design or others critics will be welcome.


Regards
karim

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

from __future__ import print_function

import sys, os, argparse, csv, xlrd

__all__  = ['main', 'Xl2CsvError', 'XLWriter', 'XlCsvFileFormat', 
'XlTabFileFormat', 'Xl2Csv', 'Xl2Scsv', 'Xl2text', 'MakeXlWriter']


class Xl2CsvError(Exception):
     """The exception class to manage the internal program errors."""
     pass

class XlWriter(object):
     """Abstract template class."""
     def __init__(self, xlfilename=None, sheets=None):
         """Initializer."""
         if self.__class__.__name__ == 'XlWriter':
             raise TypeError('Abstract template Class XlWriter could not 
be instanciated directly!')

         if not xlfilename:
             raise Xl2CsvError('Please provide a non empty file name!')
         else:
             self._source_name = xlfilename

         self._book = xlrd.open_workbook(xlfilename)

         if sheets is not None:
             if isinstance(sheets[0], int):
                 self._selected_sheets = 
[self._book.sheet_by_index(sheetnum-1) for sheetnum in sheets]
             elif isinstance(sheets[0], str):
                 try:
                     self._selected_sheets = 
[self._book.sheet_by_name(sheetname) for sheetname in sheets]
                 except xlrd.biffh.XLRDError, e:
                     print('{0} in file document {1}'.format(e, xlfilename))
                     sys.exit(1)
             else:
                 raise Xl2CsvError('Sheets element type not recognized!')
         else:
             self._selected_sheets = self._book.sheets()

     def write(self):
         """The file extraction public method."""

         for sheet in self._selected_sheets:
             xlfilename = '{sheet}{ext}'.format(sheet=sheet.name, 
ext='.'+self.file_format.extension.lower())
             try:
                 writer = csv.writer(open(xlfilename, 'wb'), 
delimiter=self.file_format.delimiter)
                 print("Creating csv file '{file}' for sheet '{sheet}' 
contained in document {src} ...".format(
                        sheet=sheet.name, file=xlfilename, 
src=self._source_name), end=' ')
                 for row in xrange(sheet.nrows):
                     writer.writerow(sheet.row_values(row))
                 print('Done.')
             except csv.Error, e:
                 print(e)
                 return 1

         return 0

     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook method. Need to implement in derived classes.

         Should return an XLAsciiFileFormat object to get file extension 
and inner delimiter.
         """
         pass

class XlCsvFileFormat(csv.excel):
     """Add file extension to the usual properties of Excel-generated 
CSV files."""
     extension = 'CSV'

class XlTabFileFormat(csv.excel_tab):
     """Add file extension to the usual properties of Excel-generated 
<TAB> delimited files."""
     extension = 'TXT'

class Xl2Csv(XlWriter):
     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook factory method"""
         return  XlCsvFileFormat()

class Xl2Scsv(XlWriter):
     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook factory method"""
         _format = XlCsvFileFormat()
         _format.extension = 'SCSV'
         _format.delimiter = ';'
         return _format

class Xl2Text(XlWriter):
     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook factory method"""
         return  XlTabFileFormat()

class MakeXlWriter(object):
     """Factory class for XLWriter objects.
     """
     @staticmethod
     def make(xlfilename=None, sheets=None, extension='CSV'):
         if extension == "TXT":
            return Xl2Text(xlfilename=xlfilename, sheets=sheets)
         elif extension == "SCSV":
            return Xl2Scsv(xlfilename=xlfilename, sheets=sheets)
         elif extension == "CSV":
            return Xl2Csv(xlfilename=xlfilename, sheets=sheets)

def main():
     """Main of this application"""
     args = _process_command_line()
     args.xl.close()
     writer = MakeXlWriter.make(xlfilename=args.xl.name, 
sheets=args.sheets, extension=args.ext)
     return writer.write()

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 13:29:05 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:29:05 +0000
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1bThcok2xLexWHbv8isjAMHYxH1d6CXZUExiNaU1WMH9g@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2011 17:38, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
[...]
> It may be time to move on to c++.

Good Luck.  Bye!

-- 
Arnaud


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 13:34:39 2011
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:34:39 -0500
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CADwdpybtizogdt6owfwV6Fu+p=V7S6v_t=gBFiV+ddprVR7bew@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Massi <massi_srb at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
> that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
> must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
>
> This is an 'example string'
>
> to the following vector:
>
> ["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
>
> Which is the best way to achieve this?
>


This sounds a lot like the way a shell parses arguments on the command
line.  If that's your desire, python has a module in the standard library
that will help, called shlex (http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html).
Particularly, shlex.split may do exactly what you want out of the box:

Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32

>>> import shlex
>>> s = "This is an 'example string'"
>>> shlex.split(s)
['This', 'is', 'an', 'example string']
>>>

-- 
Jerry
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Nov 23 14:00:39 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:00:39 +0000
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
In-Reply-To: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me> <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
	<6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
Message-ID: <4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 23/11/2011 15:40, Alemu Tadesse wrote:
> I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
> changes everything to just black and white after saving.

If you're using IDLE, are you saving the file without the .py
extension? That could be the problem.

> No color for say the built in functions for loops defs .... they all
> look the same - it is annoying for someone coming from another
> editors that help you track/easily see your work. I just un installed
> it to install it again. I know it is pain to install all the
> scientific things again. I wish Python has something like R
> (R-studio) from which you can install packages very easily. I just
> started yesterday and already frustrated with it. I am sticking to
> python only because I hear good things about it and I think it is my
> problem.
>


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 14:02:11 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:02:11 -0600
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
In-Reply-To: <4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi><6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
	<4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B0196798B@mail.sunedison.com>

I am saving it with .py extention


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of MRAB
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 12:01 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python 2.7.2 on XP

On 23/11/2011 15:40, Alemu Tadesse wrote:
> I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
> changes everything to just black and white after saving.

If you're using IDLE, are you saving the file without the .py
extension? That could be the problem.

> No color for say the built in functions for loops defs .... they all
> look the same - it is annoying for someone coming from another
> editors that help you track/easily see your work. I just un installed
> it to install it again. I know it is pain to install all the
> scientific things again. I wish Python has something like R
> (R-studio) from which you can install packages very easily. I just
> started yesterday and already frustrated with it. I am sticking to
> python only because I hear good things about it and I think it is my
> problem.
>
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From gordon at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 14:11:37 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:11:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi><6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
	<4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2984.1322074984.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jajgh9$o5b$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2984.1322074984.27778.python-list at python.org> "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse at sunedison.com> writes:

> I am saving it with .py extention

It would really help us answer your question if you identified
which editor you're using.  IDLE?  PyScripter?  Eclipse?  PyCharm?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 15:40:27 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:40:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <29337570.208.1322080827452.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiv14>

http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Nov 23 16:13:28 2011
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:13:28 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECC6C65.2090902@yahoo.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>	<mailman.2955.1321992362.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ECC6C65.2090902@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <jajnlr$2aq$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 23.11.2011 04:45, schrieb Alan Meyer:
> On 11/22/2011 3:05 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:29:18 -0500, Alan Meyer<ameyer2 at yahoo.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
>>> ...
>>> On my system that's
>>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>>>
>> Note that this is not the Tk based IDLE (which is implemented,
>> itself, as a .pyw file and is not natively executable -- which seems to
>> be one of the problems; Win7 has removed the detailed file type
>> association windows so you can't specify that the "application" is
>> pythonw.exe running idle.pyw using one's selected file as the argument
>> to the mess).
>
> Bummer!
>
> Sorry W.eWatson, my instructions may not work. I've got the ActiveState
> Python on my Windows machine. It runs a .exe file as the IDLE
> executable. If your implementation doesn't have an exe then you're going
> to have to do some more complex work.
>

PythonWin hasn't got anything to do with IDLE, it's another IDE for 
Python. It is part of the Python for Windows extensions:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 23 16:49:48 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:49:48 +1100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2981.1322072948.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878vn67blv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> writes:

> On 23 November 2011 17:38, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > It may be time to move on to c++.
>
> Good Luck.  Bye!

Sadly, IME it's most often the case that the person who threatens to
leave with just about every message will instead stick around a long
time, repeating the same threats while expecting those threats to elicit
support.

-- 
 \     ?It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to |
  `\    persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.? ?Carl |
_o__)                                                            Sagan |
Ben Finney


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 17:29:29 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:29:29 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 12:38 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at
> an end.
>
> It may be time to move on to c++.
>

C++ is a ton of fun.  You haven't lived until you've made a syntax error 
in a template instantiation and seen a hundred cascading error messages 
from included files that you didn't know you included.

Unlike Python, it really builds character.

I say, go for it!

     Alan


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 17:58:59 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:58:59 +1100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me> <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1PFKgt_nH2-7bsLHq-hB0b43Zfwu0qk7FoP6NjSX5aOEg@mail.gmail.com>

Moving to C++ is _always_ a step backwards.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Alan Meyer <ameyer2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/23/2011 12:38 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>> So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at
>> an end.
>>
>> It may be time to move on to c++.
>>
>
> C++ is a ton of fun. ?You haven't lived until you've made a syntax error in
> a template instantiation and seen a hundred cascading error messages from
> included files that you didn't know you included.
>
> Unlike Python, it really builds character.
>
> I say, go for it!
>
> ? ?Alan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From Phil_member at newsguy.com  Wed Nov 23 19:02:40 2011
From: Phil_member at newsguy.com (Phil Rist)
Date: 23 Nov 2011 16:02:40 -0800
Subject: Running Idle on Windows 7
Message-ID: <jak1j007s4@drn.newsguy.com>

I have installed ActiveState Python 32bit on my computer.  There 
are potentially five different ways that Idle can be run.  Actually six
if you include activating a command window and typing in the command.
We will not do that here.

The first way is to use the shortcut put into the start menu by the
ActiveState installation program.  Left click on the start menu icon
followed by hovering over the 'All Programs' button will bring up the 
menu.  At this point find and click the ActiveState ActivePython entry.
This will bring up the Python sub-menu on which Idle can be found and
clicked to start Idle.  If this is not previously you could create a shortcut as
described below and move it to the start button.  I do not know how to do that
on Windows 7.

The other methods may require some effort on your part.  Each extension
has a file type.  Each file type has a context menu which can be accessed
by right clicking an appropriate Windows Explorer entry or desktop icon.
The contents of the context menu is maintained in the registry.  The Regedit
utility can be used to modify the menu.

The following text typed into a file with a .reg extension can be used to
create part of a context menu for files with either a .py or .pyw extension.
Once the file is created it can be run by double clicking the file's
entry in Windows Explorer.  The file type I selected is pyfile.  If you select
a file type that already exists it will be overwritten.  If these extensions
have already been given a file type that file type should be used.  If there is 
already an Open command and you do not want to replace it change the Open names
here to something that is not already used.    Note the wrapping of the last
line.


REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py]
@="pyfile"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pyw]				
@="pyfile"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile]
@="Python source"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile\Shell]
@="Open"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile\Shell\Open]
@="Open"
"EditFlags"=hex:01,00,00,00
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile\Shell\Open\Command]
@="c:\\sys\\Language\\python\\pythonw.exe     
C:\\Sys\\Language\\Python\\Lib\\idlelib\\idle.pyw \"%1\"   "

The first two group of lines simply assign the pyfile file type to the two
extensions.  The third group sets the file type description displayed by 
Windows Explorer to 'Python Source'.  The fourth group  makes Open the default 
command.  The command that will be executed when a file is doubled clicked.  
The last group defines the text for the command.  This is basically the same as 
any command entered in a command window except instead of a file name %1 is 
entered.  This will be replaced by the name of the selected python file.  Also
any
'\' or '"' which appear in the command must be preceeded by a '\'.  The command 
given here will run Idle.  The file paths will need to be changed to what is 
appropriate on your computer.

I noticed that I had a file type Python.File.  This file type had two commands
one to run the program, 'Open' and one to Edit with Pythonwin, 
'Edit with Pythonwin'.  This was setup by the ActiveState installation program. 
These can be recovered with a .reg file with the following contents.

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py]
@="Python.File"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pyw]				
@="Python.File"


There is also a context menu for directories.  One menu for all directories.  
An entry for Idle can be created with the following code.  This also is
entered into a .reg file.  The same rules apply.  Here %1 will be replaced 
by the directory path.  Like the Start Menu method you do not have access 
to a file path.  Note the wrapping of the last line.

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\Shell\Idle]
@="Idle"
"EditFlags"=hex:01,00,00,00
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\Shell\Idle\Command]
@="c:\\sys\\Language\\python\\pythonw.exe 
C:\\Sys\\Language\\Python\\Lib\\idlelib\\idle.pyw   "


The fourth way is to create a shortcut to Idle.  This is basically the same 
as the Start Menu method except the shortcut can be put on the desktop where
it will appear as an icon or in any directory where it can be accessed from
Windows Explorer.  My technique here was to create a directory called 'Python'.
Within that directory I created three directories 'New', 'Explore' and
'Projects'
to contain my Python programs.  The 'Python' directory contains  infrastructure
files such as the .reg files.

I created a fourth sub-menu called 'Python Shortcuts'.  I added several
shortcuts which I thought would be useful, including a shortcut to Idle. 
Windows allows me to create a toolbar on the quick launch bar.  This toolbar
contains a list of the contents of a selected directory.  In my case the 'Python
Shortcuts' directory. I can run Idle by clicking on the toolbar and then the
entry for Idle.

To create the shortcut find the Python interpreter pythonw.exe.  Right click it
and select 'Create shortcut'.  The shortcut will appear in the same directory as
pythonw.exe.  Drag it to the directory you want it in.  Right click it and
select 'Properties'.  In the middle of the dialog is a text box labeled
'Target'.  This field contains the command which will be executed.  Add the path
to Idle.pyw to the end of the command.  Click the OK button.  You can also
create a shortcut to the supplied .bat file.  This will work without any further
editing.

The last method is to use a program which accepts command lines from some
source. I have a buttonbar program which uses an initialization file which
defines each command for each button.

As a word of warning,  .reg files are not the easiest things to work with.



From Phil_member at newsguy.com  Wed Nov 23 19:20:43 2011
From: Phil_member at newsguy.com (Phil Rist)
Date: 23 Nov 2011 16:20:43 -0800
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jak2kr09dh@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f at r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>,
Massi says...
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
>that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
>must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
>
>This is an 'example string'
>
>to the following vector:
>
>["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
>
>Which is the best way to achieve this?
>Thanks in advance!


Is this what you want?

import shlex


lText = "This is a 'short string' for you to read."
lWords = shlex.split(lText)
print lWords

produces,

['This', 'is', 'a', 'short string', 'for', 'you', 'to', 'read.']

Shlex can be found under 'Program Frameworks' under 'The Python Standard
Library' of ActivePython 2.7 documentation.

C:\Source\Python\New>



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 21:16:10 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 02:16:10 GMT
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000, Tim Golden wrote:

> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function: Open a
> cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
> 
> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window. Do some random cmd stuff:
> dir, cd, etc.
> 
> Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back the
> previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you entered in the
> surrounding shell)

Doesn't work for me, at least not with Python 2.5 and 2.6 on Linux.

I don't suppose you are running a site-specific command history script in 
your startup.py file?


[steve at wow-wow ~]$ unset PYTHONSTARTUP
[steve at wow-wow ~]$ python
Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Nov  6 2007, 16:54:01)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print 42
42
>>>
[1]+  Stopped                 python
[steve at wow-wow ~]$ python
Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Nov  6 2007, 16:54:01)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>


You can't see it, but I'm hitting the up arrow on that last line, and 
nothing is happening except my console is flashing :)


-- 
Steven


From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:09:49 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:09:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b601a472-3bba-4a51-a598-cdc8a5dff9f5@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

Seems so far the common way to fully unload any import is to exit the
Python session.
Only if this is true do I offer this hackish idea:

Therefore you might wish to run an os script instead of a python
script right off.
Here is my hack at it... Something like this:

file myapp.bat
--------------
python get_availble_imports.py available_imports.log
python myapp.py available_imports.log


file get_availble_imports.py
----------------------------
find_module_names = """
os sys time
sqlite lib1_verA lib2_verA
sqlite3 lib1_verB lib2_verB
"""

# other code i'm leaving out of this forum post

def find_module_names_using_pydoc( block_string ):

    '''Searchs for module names, provided in a block string,
    against the resultant module names list returned from pydoc. \n
    Returns a list of strings, being the intersection of module names
    from both lists.'''

    all_wanted_modules = parse_block_for_module_names( block_string )
# use split and drop empties

    module_names_found = []

    # walk_packages actually imports libraries;
    # so you know the import should work.
    # i call em modules; but they could be packages too

    # following line can take many seconds to run
    package_generator = pydoc.pkgutil.walk_packages(path=None,
prefix='', onerror=error_handler)

    for package_name in package_generator:
        module_loader, module_name, ispkg = package_name
        if module_name in all_wanted_modules:
            module_names_found.append( module_name )
            print repr( module_name )

    return module_names_found

found = find_module_names_using_pydoc( find_module_names )

#Then with a switch statement (if/elif) create a string with to be
#saved to the log file with what module names are in usable_mods

if 'sqlite' in found and 'lib1_verA' in found and 'lib2_verA' in
found:
    save('import sqlite, lib1_verA, lib2_verA')
elif 'sqlite' in found and 'lib1_verB' in found and 'lib2_verB' in
found:
    save('import sqlite3, lib1_verB, lib2_verB')
else:
    raise ImportError('Necessary packages not found')


file myapp.py
-------------
with open('available_imports.log','r') as f:
    text = f.read()
exec(text)
# DONE


From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:23:09 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:23:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b601a472-3bba-4a51-a598-cdc8a5dff9f5@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0edae6b0-439c-4d0f-ba03-e5b62d04693c@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

btw if you like processing text outside of python (say using grep or
something)

python -c "help('modules')" > all_imports.log

which you might note on windows get's processed to:
python -c "help('modules')" 1> all_imports.log
on windows from within a batch file



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 22:29:16 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 03:29:16 GMT
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
Message-ID: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'd like to perform a task when the user interrupts my application with 
Ctrl-Z on Linux. I tried installing a signal handler:


import signal

def handler(signalnum, stackframe):
    print "Received signal %d" % signalnum

signal.signal(signal.SIGSTOP, handler)

But I got a RuntimeError:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')


This isn't documented:

http://docs.python.org/library/signal.html#signal.signal


Is there a way to catch SIGSTOP?



-- 
Steven


From nirmanlongjam at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:50:16 2011
From: nirmanlongjam at gmail.com (nirman longjam)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:50:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tree data structure with: single, double and triple children option
	along with AVM data at each node
Message-ID: <7548c4b6-f3f1-4f96-9a77-fcb9e0edeed0@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Dear sir,

I am very happy to find this group.

Sir, i am new to Python. Currently i am working on text processing.
Can you give me some suggestions about Tree data structure
representation, where i require each node capable to handle:  only one
child, or up to 3 children plus hold feature information.


Thanking you,
L. Nirman Singh



From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:53:44 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:53:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
	<jak2kr09dh@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <45795de6-01d4-4969-9a6e-872ceadaf645@da3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This is an 'example string'

Don't for get to watch for things like:

Don't, Can't, Won't, I'll, He'll, Hor'davors, Mc'Kinly


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 22:55:56 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 03:55:56 GMT
Subject: Bind key press to call function
Message-ID: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'm looking for a way to interrupt a long-running function on a key 
press, but without halting the function.

E.g. if I have these two functions:

def handler(*args):
    print "caught interrupt and continuing..."


def exercise_cpu():
    for i in range(8):
        print "working..."
        for j in range(1000000):
            pass
    print "done"


and I call exercise_cpu(), then type some key combination (say, Ctrl-x-p 
for the sake of the argument), I'd like the result to look something like 
this:

>>> exercise_cpu()
working...
working...
working...
working...
working...
working...
caught interrupt and continuing...
working...
working...
done


I think I want to use the readline module to catch the key press Ctrl-x-p 
and generate a signal, say SIGUSR1, then use the signal module to install 
a signal handler to catch SIGUSR1. Is this the right approach, or is 
there a better one? Does anyone show me an example of working code that 
does this?

Linux only solutions are acceptable.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:20:09 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:20:09 +1100
Subject: Bind key press to call function
In-Reply-To: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpzM0fE7voJ-iixkCwebtb+HimeOWZNB6DgkLSkA-FEbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to interrupt a long-running function on a key
> press, but without halting the function.

I assume there's a reason for not using Ctrl-C and SIGINT with the
signal module?

This looks like the classic "sigint handler sets a flag that the main
loop polls" structure.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:22:23 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:22:23 +1100
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
In-Reply-To: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoqjwckDZJufPtxR8fifzqqE6HN_o1ktkB9W_A9jR+iAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Is there a way to catch SIGSTOP?

In the strictest sense, no; SIGSTOP can't be caught. However, some
systems have SIGTSTP which is sent when you hit Ctrl-Z, which would be
what you're looking for.

http://www.gnu.org/s/hello/manual/libc/Job-Control-Signals.html

Tested on my Linux box only; this almost certainly won't work on Windows.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:30:57 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:30:57 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmraGWQe0kCGjxbt_ERkYj7DDTzoj+=waoLQ4Q740vGatg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000, Tim Golden wrote:
>
>> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function: Open a
>> cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>>
>> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window. Do some random cmd stuff:
>> dir, cd, etc.
>>>>
> [1]+ ?Stopped ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? python

Ctrl-Z is the Windows equivalent (well, mostly) of Linux's Ctrl-D. You
want to cleanly exit the interpreter, not SIGSTOP it.

ChrisA


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Wed Nov 23 23:44:30 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:44:30 -0500
Subject: Thread problem
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D616@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D616@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D735@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Can someone help me on this please?


From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:15 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Thread problem

Howdy All,

Please see http://pastebin.com/GuwH8B5C .
Its a sample program implementing progressbar in multithreaded program.
Here I am creating a thread and passing update2() function to it.

Now wheneever I press CTRL-C, the program isnt returning to prompt. !

Can someone help me out with this please. !

Thanks
Nikunj
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 01:07:47 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 06:07:47 GMT
Subject: Bind key press to call function
References: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2988.1322108411.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecddf33$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:20:09 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I'm looking for a way to interrupt a long-running function on a key
>> press, but without halting the function.
> 
> I assume there's a reason for not using Ctrl-C and SIGINT with the
> signal module?

Yes, I want to leave Ctrl-C alone and have a similar, but separate, 
signal handler (or equivalent).

> This looks like the classic "sigint handler sets a flag that the main
> loop polls" structure.

Exactly. I am open to alternative methods if they are lightweight. 



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 01:11:19 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 06:11:19 GMT
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:30:57 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000, Tim Golden wrote:
>>
>>> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function: Open a
>>> cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>>>
>>> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window. Do some random cmd
>>> stuff: dir, cd, etc.
>>>>>
>> [1]+ ?Stopped ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? python
> 
> Ctrl-Z is the Windows equivalent (well, mostly) of Linux's Ctrl-D. You
> want to cleanly exit the interpreter, not SIGSTOP it.


One of us is confused, and I'm pretty sure it's you :)

Tim went on to say "Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd 
session persists", which I understood as implying that he too is using 
Linux where Ctrl-Z stops the process, but does not exit it.



-- 
Steven


From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:15:20 2011
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:15:20 -0700
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>	<1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECDE0F8.2030701@gmail.com>

On 11/22/2011 09:14 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 7:00 PM, alex23 wrote:
>> "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>> Comments?
>>
>> Please don't start multiple threads on the same issue.
> Your joking, right, or do you just prefer 500 line threads wandering all 
> over the place?

Most of us use threaded e-mail clients or nntp clients (Gmail's
conversations are rubbish for this kind of thing) and so yes, having all
500 responses wandering all over the place in an orderly tree structure
is infinitely preferred to many threads all talking about the same
thing.  Each message contains a referral id that refers the message that
is being replied to.  Thus the logical flow of the conversation is
preserved very well despite many posters and meandering conversation
branches.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:20:30 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:20:30 +1100
Subject: Bind key press to call function
In-Reply-To: <4ecddf33$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2988.1322108411.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecddf33$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoeF8fRFnBd75iW498Y2rQ7mNBsDUi2PN6J3C5Y8SQ5BQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> This looks like the classic "sigint handler sets a flag that the main
>> loop polls" structure.
>
> Exactly. I am open to alternative methods if they are lightweight.

Might be easiest to spin off a thread to do the work, and then have
the main thread block on the keyboard.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:22:35 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:22:35 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> One of us is confused, and I'm pretty sure it's you :)
>
> Tim went on to say "Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd
> session persists", which I understood as implying that he too is using
> Linux where Ctrl-Z stops the process, but does not exit it.

Entirely possible :) I blithely assumed from the fact that he said
"dir" that it was Windows, but it goes to show what happens when you
assume.

ChrisA


From rick.mansilla at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:36:40 2011
From: rick.mansilla at gmail.com (Ricardo Mansilla)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:36:40 -0600
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
Message-ID: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>

Hi everyone..
My question is exactly as in the subject of This Mail. 
I have made a Python  script which is to slow and i have heard (and common sense also suggest) that if you use some libraries to "frozen" the script the performance improves substantially. So I need to know; is This a myth or it is a fact?
Thanks in advance for your time. 


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 01:36:53 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 06:36:53 GMT
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2989.1322108547.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:22:23 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Is there a way to catch SIGSTOP?
> 
> In the strictest sense, no; SIGSTOP can't be caught. However, some
> systems have SIGTSTP which is sent when you hit Ctrl-Z, which would be
> what you're looking for.

That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks.

After catching the interrupt and doing whatever I need to do, I want to 
allow the process to be stopped as normal. Is this the right way?

import signal, os

def handler(signalnum, stackframe):
    print "Received signal %d" % signalnum
    os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGSTOP)  # Hit myself with a brick.

signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handler)


It seems to work for me (on Linux), but is it the right way?



-- 
Steven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 03:04:02 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:04:02 -0700
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:36 PM, Ricardo Mansilla
<rick.mansilla at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone..
> My question is exactly as in the subject of This Mail.
> I have made a Python ?script which is to slow and i have heard (and common sense also suggest) that if you use some libraries to "frozen" the script the performance improves substantially. So I need to know; is This a myth or it is a fact?
> Thanks in advance for your time.

I would not expect any speedup.  You might see some difference in
loading times, but the actual program being run is still just the
Python interpreter running your script, and that's not going to run
any faster.

I had a coworker who wrapped up one of his applications with py2exe /
pyInstaller on the theory that since his program would be run from a
network share, it would be faster to load a single exe over the
network than a bunch of .pyc files plus the files needed to run the
interpreter.  I can't tell any difference, though.

Cheers,
Ian


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 03:12:13 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:12:13 +1100
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
In-Reply-To: <4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2989.1322108547.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=kw7ZMR-DsXS5pzxX0f=9_7U5T2WAteDCq9+WHUGs2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> ? ?os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGSTOP) ?# Hit myself with a brick.
>

Sometimes there'll be a raise() function but it's going to do the same
thing. Yep, that would be the way to do it.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 03:15:02 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:15:02 +1100
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
In-Reply-To: <4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2989.1322108547.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr7NPJMuHW=rSU-+EgxfKcQO4mJV9FKFpiOQ-NmrH3O0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> ? ?os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGSTOP) ?# Hit myself with a brick.
>
>
> It seems to work for me (on Linux), but is it the right way?

And - if your system has SIGTSTP, it'll have SIGSTOP and this will be
how it works. (Windows has neither.) This code will probably work fine
on all modern Unix-like systems, but if it fails anywhere, it'll be
for lack of SIGTSTP I would say.

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Nov 24 03:51:35 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:51:35 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECE0597.60802@timgolden.me.uk>

On 24/11/2011 06:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>> One of us is confused, and I'm pretty sure it's you :)
>>
>> Tim went on to say "Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd
>> session persists", which I understood as implying that he too is using
>> Linux where Ctrl-Z stops the process, but does not exit it.
>
> Entirely possible :) I blithely assumed from the fact that he said
> "dir" that it was Windows, but it goes to show what happens when you
> assume.

Ahem. Sorry for any confusion caused. The OP was asking about the
situation on Windows, and I was responding in that context. The
Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows (a la Ctrl-D
on Linux).

In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
into the cmd shell.

If you exit the cmd shell then that history is lost, and I'm not
aware of any mechanism for retaining it.

All this may or may not be of any use to the OP. I was responding
to this comment by Steven:

"The default interactive interpreter for Python doesn't have persistent
history, so if you exit the interpreter and restart it, your commands
are gone."


TJG



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov 24 06:56:42 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:56:42 +0100
Subject: reading optional configuration from a file
Message-ID: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I have a few tests that require a network connection. Typically, the 
target will be localhost on port 20000. However, sometimes these 
settings differ, so I want to be able to optionally set them.

What I'm currently doing is this:

     try:
         from settings import REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT
     except ImportError:
         REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
         REMOTE_PORT = 20000

This works fine. However, there are actually a few more settings that 
can be overridden, so I changed the whole thing to this:

     try:
         from settings import *
         if not 'REMOTE_HOST' in locals():
             REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
         if not 'REMOTE_PORT' in locals():
             REMOTE_PORT = 20000
     except ImportError:
         REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
         REMOTE_PORT = 20000

Yes, wildcard imports are dangerous, but that's something I don't mind 
actually, this is an internal tool for clueful users. Still, this is 
ugly, since the defaults are stored redundantly, so I went to this variant:

     REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
     REMOTE_PORT = 20000
     try:
         from settings import *
     except ImportError:
         pass

Now, in order to avoid ambiguities, I thought about using relative 
imports, but there I'm stomped because wildcard imports are not 
supported for relative imports, it seems.


How would you do it? Any other suggestions?

Cheers!

Uli


From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 07:31:35 2011
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (Rudra Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:01:35 +0530
Subject: suitability of python
Message-ID: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>

Dear friends,
I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
like plotting, data manipulation etc.
Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
heavy computation? 
Any comment or reference is welcome.



From moky.math at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 07:46:13 2011
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:46:13 +0100
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jaleal$i9i$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>

Le 24/11/2011 13:31, Rudra Banerjee a ?crit :
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?
> Any comment or reference is welcome.


If you need mathematical power (especially symbolic computations), you 
should also consider Sage[1] which is kind of a module of math over 
python. In some situations, Sage is the "correct" successor of Fortran 
instead of plain python.

Well, it does not answers the question, but ...

Laurent

[1] http://sagemath.org



From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 24 08:08:39 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:08:39 -0500
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <4ECE41D7.9090103@davea.name>

On 11/24/2011 07:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?
> Any comment or reference is welcome.
>
If I take your description at face value, then I'd say that stock 
CPython would be slower than Fortran.  If the CPU-intensive parts had to 
be rewritten in CPython, they'd be slower than the Fortran they replace, 
by somewhere between 10:1 and 500:1.  Further, if you've already got 
those Fortran algorithms written and debugged, why rewrite them?  And 
finally, even for new code, you might be getting ideas for your 
algorithms from journals and other resources, where the examples may 
well be done in Fortran, so productivity might be best in Fortran as well.

HOWEVER, you don't have to use stock CPython, alone.  It could be that 
some of your Fortran algorithms are written in shared libraries, and 
that you could get your CPython code to call them to do the "heavy 
lifting."  Or it could be that numpy, sage, or other 3rd party libraries 
might be usable for your particular problems, and that speed is then 
comparable to Fortran.  Or it could be that one of the alternative 
Python implementations might be fast enough.

Or it could even be that you're mistaken that the present code is even 
CPU intensive.

Or it could be that by the time you recode the problem in Python, you 
discover a more efficient algorithm, and that way gain back all the 
speed you theoretically lost.

There are tools to measure things, though I'm not the one to recommend 
specifics.  And those probably depend on your platform as well.

The last Fortran that I wrote was over 40 years ago.  I'm afraid when I 
need speed, I usually use C++.  But if I were starting a personal 
math-intensive project now, I'd try to prototype it in Python, and only 
move portions of it to Fortran or other compiled language.  Only the 
portions that measurably took too long.  And those portions might be 
rewritten in Cython, C++, or Fortran, depending on what kind of work 
they actually did.

Another alternative that might make sense is to use Python as a "macro 
language" to Fortran, where you call out to Python to automate some 
tasks within the main program.  I have no experience with doing that, 
but I assume it'd be something like how MSWord can call out to VBA 
routines.  And it'd make the most sense when the main app is already 
written, and the macro stuff is an afterthought.

I think the real point is that it doesn't have to be "all or nothing."  
I suspect that the pieces you're already doing in Python are calling out 
to pre-existing libraries as well.  So your plotting code does some 
massaging, and then calls into some plotting library, or even execs a 
plotting executable.

-- 

DaveA



From rick.mansilla at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 08:26:27 2011
From: rick.mansilla at gmail.com (Ricardo Mansilla)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:26:27 -0600
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>

Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer... 
Bye.

From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 24 08:38:43 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:38:43 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>

On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
> Bye.
Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't 
other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all 
or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.

-- 

DaveA



From rick.mansilla at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 09:02:49 2011
From: rick.mansilla at gmail.com (Ricardo Mansilla)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:02:49 -0600
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
Message-ID: <432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>

Most of m?thods for improving the speed are related to efficient memory management and using specific structures for a specific tasks... But i have already optimized my code (which is very short actually) following all these rules and it is very slow yet. 
Do you think there is another way to do This? Probably i'm missing something here...

On 24/11/2011, at 07:38, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
>> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
>> Bye.
> Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.
> 
> -- 
> 
> DaveA
> 


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov 24 09:05:55 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:05:55 +0100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2786.1321487193.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4jv1q8-sv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 17.11.2011 00:59, schrieb Ben Finney:
> David Robinow<drobinow at gmail.com>  writes:
>> but your code works fine on Windows. Thanks.
>
> I'm glad to know that. Perhaps you could investigate why, and suggest an
> update to the above documentation if it's wrong? The bug tracker at
> <URL:http://bugs.python.org/>  would be the appropriate place for such a
> suggestion.

Interestingly, on MS Windows (XP here), every commandline program 
inherits the history functionality (browsing with cursor up/down) from 
the shell it runs in. That means the program itself doesn't have to 
supply any of that, but also that it can't customize any of that...

The history is not persistent though, it is restricted to that shell. 
Still, this might explain why it never bothered anyone enough to fix 
things properly. ;)

Uli


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 09:15:20 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:15:20 +1100
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1MF=AgfuPmHHmeHtfBhAUyTDwm6J0mLZAogz8OzsVYajw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. Try posting your code.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Mansilla
<rick.mansilla at gmail.com> wrote:
> Most of m?thods for improving the speed are related to efficient memory management and using specific structures for a specific tasks... But i have already optimized my code (which is very short actually) following all these rules and it is very slow yet.
> Do you think there is another way to do This? Probably i'm missing something here...
>
> On 24/11/2011, at 07:38, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
>>> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This. ?But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
>>> Bye.
>> Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.
>>
>> --
>>
>> DaveA
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 09:21:24 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:21:24 +1100
Subject: reading optional configuration from a file
In-Reply-To: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1OXYNNbqiHjaKm+DbSbVNBnKfjAmovWezE1CJ7m7y-yFg@mail.gmail.com>

 ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost' ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000 ? ?try:
from .settings import * ? ?except ImportError: ? ? ? ?pass
This works? If you're using an old version of Python you may need to
mess about with __future__.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Ulrich Eckhardt
<ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have a few tests that require a network connection. Typically, the target
> will be localhost on port 20000. However, sometimes these settings differ,
> so I want to be able to optionally set them.
>
> What I'm currently doing is this:
>
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?from settings import REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT
> ? ?except ImportError:
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
>
> This works fine. However, there are actually a few more settings that can be
> overridden, so I changed the whole thing to this:
>
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?from settings import *
> ? ? ? ?if not 'REMOTE_HOST' in locals():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ? ? ?if not 'REMOTE_PORT' in locals():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
> ? ?except ImportError:
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
>
> Yes, wildcard imports are dangerous, but that's something I don't mind
> actually, this is an internal tool for clueful users. Still, this is ugly,
> since the defaults are stored redundantly, so I went to this variant:
>
> ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?from settings import *
> ? ?except ImportError:
> ? ? ? ?pass
>
> Now, in order to avoid ambiguities, I thought about using relative imports,
> but there I'm stomped because wildcard imports are not supported for
> relative imports, it seems.
>
>
> How would you do it? Any other suggestions?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Uli
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 24 09:27:10 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:27:10 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECE543E.9040807@davea.name>

On 11/24/2011 09:02 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
> Most of m?thods for improving the speed are related to efficient memory management and using specific structures for a specific tasks... But i have already optimized my code (which is very short actually) following all these rules and it is very slow yet.
> Do you think there is another way to do This? Probably i'm missing something here...
>
> On 24/11/2011, at 07:38, Dave Angel<d at davea.name>  wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
>>> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
>>> Bye.
>> Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.
>>
>> --
>>
>> DaveA
>>
>
(Please don't top-post.  If you put your comments ahead of the part 
you're quoting, you confuse us)

Several ways to speed up code.

1) use language features to best advantage
2) use 3rd party libraries that do certain things well
3) use best algorithms, subject to #1 and #2
4) have someone else review the code (perhaps on the list, perhaps 
within your own organization)
5) measure  (eg. profile it)
6) use optimizing tools, such as pypy or Cython.
7) rewrite parts of it in another language
8) get a faster processor
9) rewrite it all in another language

It takes experience to choose between these, and each project is 
different.  But even the most experienced developers will frequently 
guess entirely wrong where the bottleneck is, which is why you measure 
if you care.


-- 

DaveA


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Thu Nov 24 10:35:36 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:35:36 -0500
Subject: How to keep Console area fixed for a thread
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hi All,

Please look at the code below.
I am using pypi progressbar. But in general, How can I keep the area of the console fixed for  the thread to print its status on it.

{{{
import sys
import time
import threading
import os

from progressbar import AnimatedMarker, Bar, BouncingBar, Counter, ETA, \
                        FileTransferSpeed, FormatLabel, Percentage, \
                        ProgressBar, ReverseBar, RotatingMarker, \
                        SimpleProgress, Timer

def ProgBar():
    widgets = [' ', Percentage(), ' ', Bar(marker='#',left='[',right=']'),' ']
    pbar = ProgressBar(widgets=widgets, maxval=100)
    pbar.start()
    return pbar

def update2(i):
    os.environ["PBAR"] = i
    print("This will print for every call to update")
    return



class MyThread(threading.Thread):
    def run(self):
        l = 0
        while True:
            n = os.getenv("PBAR", "")
            if len(n) != 0:
                n = int(n)
                if n > l:
                    pbar.update(n)
                    l = n
                    if n == 100:
                        break
                else:
                    continue

pbar = ProgBar()
mythread = MyThread()
mythread.daemon = True
mythread.start()


for i in range(101):
    update2("{0}".format(i))
    time.sleep(0.25)

  }}}

{{{
Output:

[cid:image002.jpg at 01CCAAEC.CFE44870]


}}}

But I require the output to be of type:
{{{
13%  [###########                               ]
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
}}}

This is just a sample piece of code for narrowing down the problem.
How can I fix the cursor position fix for the thread which is updating my progressbar .?

Thanks
Nikunj
Bangalore-India




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From zdoor at xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 24 11:28:01 2011
From: zdoor at xs4all.nl (Alex van der Spek)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:28:01 +0100
Subject: WAVE file writing, confused about setsampwidth(n)
Message-ID: <4ece7092$0$6902$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

I am confused about the Wave_write object setsampwidth(n).

Is the sample width n the total sample width, i.e. for a stereo sample 
consisting of short (2 byte) integers; n=4 or is the sample width the number 
of bytes in either the left or the right channel?

Regards,
Alex van der Spek 



From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Nov 24 11:46:48 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:46:48 +0100
Subject: DTrace probes in Python 2.7 (and next 3.3)
Message-ID: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi all.

I have spend some time trying to integrate DTrace probes in official
Python: Currently I have a patch to python 2.7, and my plan in to
integrate officially in 3.3.

The initial probes were based on previous work from OpenSolaris, and
similar, but currently I have quite a few more probes. Current details
in
<http://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/file/b1a39702dfd8/Doc/library/dtrace.rst>

The probes are tested under Solaris 10 x86 and x86-64. I would need
somebody to try on Solaris 10 Sparc (32 and 64 bits), Solaris 11,
OpenIndiana, FreeBSD (seems to need a kernel recompilation to enable
user mode tracing, check Google), Mac (I doubt it works as is), etc.,
any other platform running DTrace. What about SystemTap compatibility?

Details: <http://bugs.python.org/issue13405>

How to check: <http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg147706>.

The easier way to get the patch is to clone my repository at
<https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/> (with mercurial) and move to the
branch "dtrace-issue13405_2.7". Keep the clone around if you plan to
try future versions of this patch, including the future 3.3 version.

You can manually apply the patch in
<http://bugs.python.org/file23758/a9f4ae43fd85.diff> to python 2.7.2+
sourcecode. The patch is developed against version 3c3009f63700
(2011-11-14). It might not apply cleanly to 2.7.2 sourcecode (not
checked). I will provide a direct patch to 2.7.3 when available. Maybe
to 2.7.2 if there is demand.

This is still work in progress. I will improve support with your
feedback. I am considering probes to monitor GIL and thinking how to
monitor C function calls from Python in an easy and fast way. Feedback
very welcomed.

Please, if you care about this, test it and provide some feedback :).

PS: Better post feedback in the bug tracker that by personal email :-).

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 12:24:24 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:24:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tree data structure with: single, double and triple children
	option along with AVM data at each node
In-Reply-To: <7548c4b6-f3f1-4f96-9a77-fcb9e0edeed0@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <7548c4b6-f3f1-4f96-9a77-fcb9e0edeed0@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <29675595.296.1322155464662.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbjs5>

There a many ways to do this, here's one:

from collections import namedtuple
Tree = namedtuple('Tree', ['feature', 'children'])
t = Tree(1, [Tree('hello', []), Tree(3, [])])


From cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 13:27:09 2011
From: cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com (BV)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:27:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <4d6f12c2-f596-4c50-af96-c9ee51e66aaa@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

In The Name Of Allah,
Most Gracious, Most Merciful
YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
MUHAMMAD

You may be an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to anyone of
the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may be
a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you
are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal
and social habits happen to be - YOU MUST STILL KNOW THIS MAN!
He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this
earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid
down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms,
established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent
his teachings, and completely revolutionized the worlds of human
thought and action for all times to come.
HIS NAME IS MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him
and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span
of twenty-three years.
Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him was born in
Arabia on the 20th of August, in the year 570 of the Christian era,
and when he died after 63 years, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula
had changed from paganism and idol-worship to the worship of One God;
from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion;
from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from
lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral
bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history
has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place
before or since!
The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all
religious personalities of the world". Bernard Shaw said about him
that if Muhammad were alive today he would succeed in solving all
those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our
times. Thomas Carlysle was simply amazed as to how one man, single-
handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most
powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and
Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines
established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.
Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such diverse
fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time,
as did Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him. He
was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a political
thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful
friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father -
all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in
any of these difficult departments of life.
The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one
sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields
such as religious thought or military leadership. None of the other
great leaders of the world ever combined in himself so many different
qualities to such an amazing level of perfection as did Muhammad,
peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him.
The lives and teachings of other great personalities of the world are
shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the
time and the place of their birth, the mode and style of their life,
the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of
their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity today to
reconstruct accurately and precisely the lives and teachings of those
men.
Not so this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him. Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history,
but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and
utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to
our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched
for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and
open-minded scholars.
At the level of ideas there is no system of thought and belief-secular
or religious, social or political-which could surpass or equal ISLAM-
the system which Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him propounded. In a fast changing world, while other systems have
undergone profound transformations, Islam alone has remained above all
change and mutation, and retained its original form for the past 1400
years. What is more, the positive changes that are taking place in the
world of human thought and behavior, truly and consistently reflect
the healthy influence of Islam in these areas. Further, it is not
given to the best of thinkers to put their ideas completely into
practice, and to see the seeds of their labors grow and bear fruit, in
their own lifetime. Except of course, Muhammad, peace and blessings of
God Almighty be upon him, who not only preached the most wonderful
ideas but also successfully translated each one of them into practice
in his own lifetime. At the time of his death his teachings were not
mere precepts and ideas straining for fulfillment, but had become the
very core of the life of tens of thousands of perfectly trained
individuals, each one of whom was a marvelous personification of
everything that Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him taught and stood for. At what other time or place and in relation
to what other political, social, religious system, philosophy or
ideology-did the world ever witness such a perfectly amazing
phenomenon?
Indeed no other system or ideology secular or religious, social or
political, ancient or modern - could ever claim the distinction of
having been put into practice in its fullness and entirety EVEN ONCE
in this world, either before or after the death of its founder. Except
of course ISLAM, the ideology preached by Muhammad, peace and
blessings of God Almighty be upon him which was established as a
complete way of life by the teacher himself, before he departed from
this world. History bears testimony to this fact and the greatest
skeptics have no option but to concede this point.
In spite of these amazing achievements and in spite of the countless
absolutely convincing and authentic miracles performed by him and the
phenomenal success which crowned his efforts, he did not for a moment
claim to be God or God's incarnation or Son - but only a human being
who was chosen and ordained by God to be a teacher of truth to man
kind and a complete model and pattern for their actions.
He was nothing more or less than a human being. But he was a man with
a noble and exalted mission-and his unique mission was to unite
humanity on the worship of ONE AND ONLY GOD and to teach them the way
to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands
of God. He always described himself as A MESSENGER AND SERVANT OF GOD,
and so indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him
to be.
A world which has not hesitated to raise to Divinity individuals whose
very lives and missions have been lost in legend and who historically
speaking did not accomplish half as much-or even one tenth-as was
accomplished by Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him should stop to take serious note of this remarkable man's claim to
be God's messenger to mankind.
Today after the lapse of some 1400 years the life and teachings of
Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him,
have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation.
Today they offer the same undying hope for treating mankind's many
ills which they did when Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God
Almighty be upon him, was alive. This is our honest claim and this is
the inescapable conclusion forced upon us by a critical and unbiased
study of history.
The least YOU should do as a thinking, sensitive, concerned human
being is to stop for one brief moment and ask yourself: Could it be
that these statements, extraordinary and revolutionary as they sound,
are really true? Supposing they really are true, and you did not know
this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him or
hear about his teachings? Or did not know him well and intimately
enough to be able to benefit from his guidance and example? Isn't it
time you responded to this tremendous challenge and made some effort
to know him? It will not cost you anything but it may well prove to be
the beginning of a completely new era in your life.
Come, let us make a new discovery of the life of this wonderful man
Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him the like of
whom never walked on this earth, and whose example and teachings can
change YOUR LIFE and OUR WORLD for the better. May God shower His
choicest blessings upon him!



IF YOU WISH TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ISLAM, WE PREFER TO VISIT THE FOLLOWING
WEBSITES:

http://www.islam-guide.com

http://www.islamhouse.com/s/9661

http://www.thisistruth.org

http://www.quran-m.com/firas/en1

http://kaheel7.com/eng

http://www.knowmuhammad.com

http://www.rasoulallah.net/v2/index.aspx?lang=e

 http://imanway1.com/eng

http://www.todayislam.com

http://www.thekeytoislam.com

http://www.islamland.com

http://www.discoverislam.com

http://www.thetruereligion.org

http://www.beconvinced.com

http://islamtomorrow.com

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran

http://www.quranforall.org

http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org

http://www.chatislamonline.org/ar

http://www.dar-us-salam.com

http://youtubeislam.com


From aszeszo at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 13:49:40 2011
From: aszeszo at gmail.com (Andrzej Szeszo)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:49:40 +0000
Subject: [oi-dev] DTrace probes in Python 2.7 (and next 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es>
References: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <4ECE91C4.2040208@gmail.com>

Hi Jesus

Just noticed that there is a python 2.7 package in Oracle's userland 
repo here:

<http://hg.openindiana.org/upstream/oracle/userland-gate/file/ea6a3f09379c/components/python/python27>

It includes DTrace patch. Did you see/use that?

Andrzej

On 24/11/2011 16:46, Jesus Cea wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have spend some time trying to integrate DTrace probes in official
> Python: Currently I have a patch to python 2.7, and my plan in to
> integrate officially in 3.3.
>
> The initial probes were based on previous work from OpenSolaris, and
> similar, but currently I have quite a few more probes. Current details
> in
> <http://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/file/b1a39702dfd8/Doc/library/dtrace.rst>
>
> The probes are tested under Solaris 10 x86 and x86-64. I would need
> somebody to try on Solaris 10 Sparc (32 and 64 bits), Solaris 11,
> OpenIndiana, FreeBSD (seems to need a kernel recompilation to enable
> user mode tracing, check Google), Mac (I doubt it works as is), etc.,
> any other platform running DTrace. What about SystemTap compatibility?
>
> Details:<http://bugs.python.org/issue13405>
>
> How to check:<http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg147706>.
>
> The easier way to get the patch is to clone my repository at
> <https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/>  (with mercurial) and move to the
> branch "dtrace-issue13405_2.7". Keep the clone around if you plan to
> try future versions of this patch, including the future 3.3 version.
>
> You can manually apply the patch in
> <http://bugs.python.org/file23758/a9f4ae43fd85.diff>  to python 2.7.2+
> sourcecode. The patch is developed against version 3c3009f63700
> (2011-11-14). It might not apply cleanly to 2.7.2 sourcecode (not
> checked). I will provide a direct patch to 2.7.3 when available. Maybe
> to 2.7.2 if there is demand.
>
> This is still work in progress. I will improve support with your
> feedback. I am considering probes to monitor GIL and thinking how to
> monitor C function calls from Python in an easy and fast way. Feedback
> very welcomed.
>
> Please, if you care about this, test it and provide some feedback :).
>
> PS: Better post feedback in the bug tracker that by personal email :-).
>
> - -- 
> Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
> jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
> .                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
> "Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> "My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
> "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iQCVAwUBTs50+Jlgi5GaxT1NAQKWUwQAnl99nFd6nM5yiPGl8yw4/YR81BTIS563
> 3wyPz74o5wAE3k9quexr+UPCndPogiH6nhnJ9DNXfUpVyaouGG/tGEbZn/x+h7Dv
> jc5616IRnHxGAxxuoTscCRRN88zsPVY6i71QMxK2BOS+zXMdcrsBajLrmx1UIzHY
> Elr7fq8L988=
> =uQM5
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev at openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 24 16:18:59 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:18:59 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 2:29 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> On 11/23/2011 12:38 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at
>> an end.
>>
>> It may be time to move on to c++.
>>
>
> C++ is a ton of fun. You haven't lived until you've made a syntax error
> in a template instantiation and seen a hundred cascading error messages
> from included files that you didn't know you included.
>
> Unlike Python, it really builds character.
>
> I say, go for it!
>
> Alan
So posting the results of the adventure you put me on has no further way 
to proceed?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 24 16:22:51 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:22:51 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>

Whoops, I thought I was replying to Matt Meyers just above you. However, 
I think he chimed in above about ActiveState back on the 22nd.

In any case, I think this thread has ceased to be productive.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 24 16:24:06 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:24:06 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2981.1322072948.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2981.1322072948.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jamclq$861$3@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 10:29 AM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> On 23 November 2011 17:38, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
> [...]
>> It may be time to move on to c++.
>
> Good Luck.  Bye!
>
"Wellll, pardoooon meee." -- Steve Martin


From dbinks at codeaurora.org  Thu Nov 24 16:41:50 2011
From: dbinks at codeaurora.org (Dominic Binks)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:41:50 -0800
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECEBA1E.4020405@codeaurora.org>

On 11/23/2011 10:36 PM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
> Hi everyone..
> My question is exactly as in the subject of This Mail.
> I have made a Python  script which is to slow and i have heard (and common sense also suggest) that if you use some libraries to "frozen" the script the performance improves substantially. So I need to know; is This a myth or it is a fact?
> Thanks in advance for your time.

Depending on the code you have pypy may be faster - I've seen it both 
significantly faster and about the same as CPython.

-- 
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Nov 24 17:28:28 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:28:28 +1100
Subject: reading optional configuration from a file
References: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <8739dd6tpv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> writes:

> I have a few tests that require a network connection. Typically, the
> target will be localhost on port 20000. However, sometimes these
> settings differ, so I want to be able to optionally set them.

I subscribe to the view that an application's user-configurable settings
should be data, not executable code.

For this purpose, you will want to investigate the Python standard
library modules ?json? <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/json> and
?configparser? <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/configparser>.

-- 
 \        ?I saw a sign: ?Rest Area 25 Miles?. That's pretty big. Some |
  `\                      people must be really tired.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From alex.kapps at web.de  Thu Nov 24 18:18:44 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:18:44 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECED0D4.6080501@web.de>

On 24.11.2011 22:22, W. eWatson wrote:
> Whoops, I thought I was replying to Matt Meyers just above you.

Above who? As said by somebody already, most people use a 
mail-client (Thunderbird/Outlook) or a Usenet client to read this 
forum. Google Groups is (In My Opinion at least) just crap (and 
should be blocked/forbidden. It's *the* one spam sender already)
Please always post enough context,

Now, we are talking about Python 3.2.* on Win7, correct? I only have 
Win7 32bit in a VBox VM, but still.

Please paste the following into a "python.reg", file, then 
right-click on that file and choose the fist option (the one wihch 
is in bold font, something like install/insert/insert or however 
it's called in your language. In my German versin it's called 
"Zusammenf?hren")

Do you get an "Edit with IDLE" then?




Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File]
@="Python File"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\DefaultIcon]
@="C:\\Python32\\DLLs\\py.ico"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command]
@="\"C:\\Python32\\pythonw.exe\" 
\"C:\\Python32\\Lib\\idlelib\\idle.pyw\" -e \"%1\""

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open\command]
@="\"C:\\Python32\\python.exe\" \"%1\" %*"




From alex.kapps at web.de  Thu Nov 24 18:37:03 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:37:03 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECED0D4.6080501@web.de>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ECED0D4.6080501@web.de>
Message-ID: <4ECED51F.2000106@web.de>

On 25.11.2011 00:18, Alexander Kapps wrote:

> Do you get an "Edit with IDLE" then?

And even if not. Why are you so obsessive about IDLE? I mean, 
seriously, IDLE is just a bare-level if-nothing-else-is-available 
editor/IDE. It's better than notepad, OK.

I really don't buy it, that your are willing to move to C++ (or even 
just change the language) just because the default editor is not 
available in the context menu.


From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Nov 24 19:01:22 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:01:22 +0100
Subject: [oi-dev] DTrace probes in Python 2.7 (and next 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <4ECE91C4.2040208@gmail.com>
References: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es> <4ECE91C4.2040208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECEDAD2.5060301@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 24/11/11 19:49, Andrzej Szeszo wrote:
> Hi Jesus
> 
> Just noticed that there is a python 2.7 package in Oracle's
> userland repo here:
> 
> <http://hg.openindiana.org/upstream/oracle/userland-gate/file/ea6a3f09379c/components/python/python27>
>
> 
> 
> It includes DTrace patch. Did you see/use that?

That was my starting point.

Talking about that... How is the license going?. Mailing the guy...

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQCVAwUBTs7a0plgi5GaxT1NAQLNUAP/WUopUbet5NN5K1kgJ6/5KNJFX/HMXqIl
JXWXHro72f3SFuWws1QL82nos/nhVn5JQkkc3sRDwi3EV0dFM2Zi9BS8paHfOrQi
2qNNbvnTMzGKjZ9ZQrhiC+aSfr5qG6ou53mtQch53W7v15t7flqrDWr/VqlKxRWO
xn0P8WzSC8g=
=G9Ie
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 19:04:04 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 00:04:04 GMT
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:25:23 -0600, Tony the Tiger wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:43:20 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>> Windows PowerShell includes more than one hundred basic core cmdlets,
>> and you can write your own cmdlets and share them with other users.
> 
> Oh, goodie! They've found yet another way to infect a Windows system. :)

My Linux system includes compilers or interpreters for C, Pascal, 
Haskell, Forth, Python, Ruby, PHP, Javascript, Java, bash, csh, zsh, sh, 
awk, sed, Perl, SQL, Tcl, Tk, OpenXion, and very likely others. Most of 
these were supplied by the vendor. I could write my own executable code, 
"cmdlets" if you will, in any of these languages, and share them with 
others.

So by your reasoning, that's at least 20 ways to infect my Linux system. 
I never realised just how insecure Linux must be!

If "sharing code" is considered to be synonymous with "infection", what 
does that say about the Free and Open Source Software movement?



Linux-users-aren't-the-only-people-allowed-to-write-shell-scripts-ly y'rs,


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 19:16:06 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 00:16:06 GMT
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:18:44 +0100, Alexander Kapps wrote:

> Now, we are talking about Python 3.2.* on Win7, correct? I only have
> Win7 32bit in a VBox VM, but still.

I believe that W. eWatson's problems occurred when he installed a 32-bit 
version of Python 3.2 on a 64-bit version of Windows 7. Either the 32-bit 
installer doesn't set the default file associations correctly on 64-bit 
systems, or W. eWatson has mangled his registry by making arbitrary 
changes to file associations, and now even the correct 64-bit installer 
can't set the associations correctly.

As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has 
chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE 
doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up 
due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken 
his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.

Fixing the associations is a Windows issue, not a Python issue. Even if 
it turns out that the installer does neglect to set up menu commands for 
IDLE (which should be reported as a feature request on the bug tracker), 
this is not a problem best solved here, although we can do our best. It 
would be best solved on a Window forum, where experts on Windows can give 
advice.


-- 
Steven


From alex.kapps at web.de  Thu Nov 24 19:32:08 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:32:08 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ECEE208.9010602@web.de>

On 25.11.2011 01:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> So by your reasoning, that's at least 20 ways to infect my Linux system.
> I never realised just how insecure Linux must be!

Yes, there are 20+ ways to "infect" your (and mine) Linux system. 
You cannot trust *any* kind of 3rd party code. Period.

Have you ever added a 3rd party repo (PPA or such). Have you ever 
added some Firefox addon or installed some 3rd-party addition (of 
any kind) to some program)

Where is the protection now?

The main difference here is, that Linux makes it easy to seperate 
administrative accounts from end-user accounts,

The custom addon/cmdlet/whatever I give you has the same dangers on 
Linux as on windows. If you blindly install it, you're owned!

> If "sharing code" is considered to be synonymous with "infection", what
> does that say about the Free and Open Source Software movement?

Completely besides the topic. It's not about "sharing code", but 
about the seperation between normal and administrative user on the 
OS level (which Windows still doesn't have by default).

> Linux-users-aren't-the-only-people-allowed-to-write-shell-scripts-ly y'rs,

But-Linux-Users-aren't-root-by-default-ly y'rs.

:)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 24 19:51:10 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:51:10 -0500
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jamoqh$b55$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/24/2011 7:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?

The first killer app for Python was running Fortran code from within 
Python. People use Python for both pre- and post-processing. For small 
jobs, this enabled running Fortran interactively.

This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and 
other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py 
(fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it 
has been years since I read the details).

Detailed questions might get better answers on, for instance, a scipy list.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 24 20:06:24 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <jampn3$fpr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/24/2011 7:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> doesn't show up,

On the contrary, back when he first posted, I stated that 64-bit Python 
3.2.2 on my 64-bit Windows 7 works fine, just as he wants it to.

> so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.

I also noted that I had slightly screwed up my previous machine, and the 
installers never fixed up the deviation. So I gave him a better 
alternative that I use. He has ignored that and most everything else I 
posted.

When he later revealed that IDLE does not run by any means, that he 
should fix *that* before worrying about right-clicks.

> Fixing the associations is a Windows issue, not a Python issue. Even if
> it turns out that the installer does neglect to set up menu commands for
> IDLE (which should be reported as a feature request on the bug tracker),

The installer for each version has been setting up commands for IDLE for 
perhaps a decade or more.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 21:19:56 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:19:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Return of an old friend
Message-ID: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello Fellow Pythonistas,

I am very glad to be back after an unfortunate incident caused my
Google account to be deleted. Unfortunately for those of you that have
been following along and supporting my crusade to bring fairness and
humility to the python community, my old posts under "rantingrick"
have all been deleted from Google Groups. However, you can always
search the python-list archives if you need a jog down memory lane.

Actually this accidental deletion may have been a good thing as i've
had some extra time to muse on the innards of Python4000.

In any event, this announcement is intended to be a new call to arms
for my brothers and sisters who fight the good fight, and for those of
you who despise me , well, this might be a good time to add my new
moniker to your kill files.

Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving everyone!


From aljosa.mohorovic at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:00:52 2011
From: aljosa.mohorovic at gmail.com (Aljosa Mohorovic)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:00:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: memory leaks - tools and docs
Message-ID: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

i've been trying to find memory leaks in a wsgi application using
gunicorn to run it and after a lot of time invested in research and
testing tools i did find a lot of useful information (most really old)
but i'm left with a feeling that this should be easier, better
documented and with tools that generate better data.

if anybody can share some tips, links, docs or better tools with
better reports i would really appreciate it.
i'm not against paying for a good tool so any recommendation is
appreciated.

i mostly used http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/#Heapy but found
http://pysizer.8325.org/ and http://code.google.com/p/pympler/ also
interesting.

Aljosa


From mcfletch at vrplumber.com  Thu Nov 24 22:17:11 2011
From: mcfletch at vrplumber.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:17:11 -0500
Subject: memory leaks - tools and docs
In-Reply-To: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF08B7.9070201@vrplumber.com>

On 11-11-24 10:00 PM, Aljosa Mohorovic wrote:
> i've been trying to find memory leaks in a wsgi application using
> gunicorn to run it and after a lot of time invested in research and
> testing tools i did find a lot of useful information (most really old)
> but i'm left with a feeling that this should be easier, better
> documented and with tools that generate better data.
>
> if anybody can share some tips, links, docs or better tools with
> better reports i would really appreciate it.
> i'm not against paying for a good tool so any recommendation is
> appreciated.
>
> i mostly used http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/#Heapy but found
> http://pysizer.8325.org/ and http://code.google.com/p/pympler/ also
> interesting.
>
> Aljosa
Meliae is a similar tool wrt collecting memory-usage information.

RunSnakeRun can process Meliae dumps to produce visualizations of the
memory used in the process.

HTH,
Mike

https://launchpad.net/meliae
http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/runsnakerun/

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com

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From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:27:12 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:27:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1342091.65.1322191632498.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmu26>

On Friday, November 25, 2011 8:51:10 AM UTC+8, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/24/2011 7:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> > I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> > like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> > Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> > it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> > for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> > heavy computation?
> 
> The first killer app for Python was running Fortran code from within 
> Python. People use Python for both pre- and post-processing. For small 
> jobs, this enabled running Fortran interactively.
> 
> This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and 
> other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py 
> (fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it 
> has been years since I read the details).
> 
> Detailed questions might get better answers on, for instance, a scipy list.
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy

If pyhthon just handles the user interface and glue logics of well written python modules that are most written c, the speed of running python pyc  is OK. 
  
Of course the object reference updating required  in OOP is completely supported by python. 





From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:27:12 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:27:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1342091.65.1322191632498.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmu26>

On Friday, November 25, 2011 8:51:10 AM UTC+8, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/24/2011 7:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> > I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> > like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> > Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> > it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> > for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> > heavy computation?
> 
> The first killer app for Python was running Fortran code from within 
> Python. People use Python for both pre- and post-processing. For small 
> jobs, this enabled running Fortran interactively.
> 
> This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and 
> other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py 
> (fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it 
> has been years since I read the details).
> 
> Detailed questions might get better answers on, for instance, a scipy list.
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy

If pyhthon just handles the user interface and glue logics of well written python modules that are most written c, the speed of running python pyc  is OK. 
  
Of course the object reference updating required  in OOP is completely supported by python. 





From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:37:30 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: suitability of python
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f7025557-13fe-4b72-863b-fd91c0aca9e5@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>

Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and
> other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py
> (fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it
> has been years since I read the details).

Andrew Dalke recently did some work on f2pypy, as a step toward
running Fortran under PyPy:

http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2011/11/09/f2pypy.html

If PyPy's Numpy support was more advanced, I'd probably recommend the
OP start there.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:47:29 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:47:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function:
> Open a cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>
> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window.
> Do some random cmd stuff: dir, cd, etc.
>
> Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back
> the previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you
> entered in the surrounding shell)

This isn't true, at least not for ActivePython 2.7.2.5 under Windows
7-64. The second session has no history whatsoever.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:49:46 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:49:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 24, 6:51?pm, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> The
> Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows (a la Ctrl-D
> on Linux).

With ActivePython, Ctrl-D works as well, which is a godsend as I'm
constantly working across Windows & linux.

> In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
> the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
> history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
> and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
> into the cmd shell.

And again, I'm definitely not seeing this. Inside the one cmd shell,
each instance of Python has no recollection of the history of the last.


From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Nov 24 23:05:11 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:05:11 +0100
Subject: memory leaks - tools and docs
In-Reply-To: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jan45o$6s8$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 25.11.2011 04:00, schrieb Aljosa Mohorovic:
> i mostly used http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/#Heapy but found
> http://pysizer.8325.org/ and http://code.google.com/p/pympler/ also
> interesting.

Guppy is a extremely powerful tool because it can also track non GC
objects without a debug build of Python. I only wished it would have a
user friendly and easy to script interface. The _.more thing is killing
me. :(

I'm using a very simple and almost for free approach to keep track of
memory usage with psutil. After every unit test case I store RSS and VM
size with psutil.Process(os.getpid()).get_memory_info(),
threading.active_count(), len(gc.garbage) and len(gc.get_objects()). It
doesn't show what's going wrong, but it helps me to isolate the code
paths, that may introduce memory leaks and reference cycles. Since we
use continuous integration (Jenkins) I can track down regressions more
easily, too.

Christian



From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 23:06:26 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:06:26 -0500
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jan484$51p$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/24/2011 07:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?
> Any comment or reference is welcome.
>

I would expect that a language that compiles intensive math programming 
to machine language will be much more than an order of magnitude faster 
than a program that does the same thing by interpreting byte code.

If you study all of the Python math libraries I'm guessing you'll find 
modules that do a lot, conceivably all, of what you want in compiled 
machine language, but when held together with Python it may or may not 
be as efficient as fortran.  I'm guessing there's not much out there 
that is as efficient as fortran for purely numerical work.

I think your division of labor using fortran for the CPU intensive math 
parts and python for post-processing is a pretty good one.  It takes 
advantage of the strength of each language.  In addition, it completely 
separates the two parts so that they aren't really dependent on each 
other.  You can change the fortran any way you want without breaking the 
python code as long as you output the same format, and of course you can 
change the python any way you want. Programs in each language don't even 
have to know that any other language is involved.

My only suggestion is to see if you can get a profiler to see what's 
happening inside that weeks long running fortran program.  You might 
find some surprises.  I once wrote a 5,000 line program that was slower 
than I had hoped.  I ran it through a profiler and it showed me that I 
was spending more than 50 percent of my time on one single line of my 
code that called a simple library routine ("strcpy").  I wrote the 
simple library routine inline instead adding just a few lines of code. 
It cut the total execution time of the whole program in half.

     Alan


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 23:37:21 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 04:37:21 GMT
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3018.1322183218.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecf1b80$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:06:24 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 11/24/2011 7:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7
>> has chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
>> doesn't show up,
> 
> On the contrary, back when he first posted, I stated that 64-bit Python
> 3.2.2 on my 64-bit Windows 7 works fine, just as he wants it to.

Ah, sorry about that Terry! This thread, or multiple threads, is long and 
confusing and I obviously haven't been able to keep track of who said 
what.



-- 
Steven


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 00:08:17 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:08:17 +1100
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.

Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Fellow Pythonistas,
>
> I am very glad to be back after an unfortunate incident caused my
> Google account to be deleted. Unfortunately for those of you that have
> been following along and supporting my crusade to bring fairness and
> humility to the python community, my old posts under "rantingrick"
> have all been deleted from Google Groups. However, you can always
> search the python-list archives if you need a jog down memory lane.
>
> Actually this accidental deletion may have been a good thing as i've
> had some extra time to muse on the innards of Python4000.
>
> In any event, this announcement is intended to be a new call to arms
> for my brothers and sisters who fight the good fight, and for those of
> you who despise me , well, this might be a good time to add my new
> moniker to your kill files.
>
> Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving everyone!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From 6brisk at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 00:23:13 2011
From: 6brisk at gmail.com (brisk brisk)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:23:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: online form filling jobs
Message-ID: <f14af5e1-25d0-48eb-acf9-2eb208039b4c@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>

online form filling jobs
http://onlinejobsprocess.weebly.com/


From zpengxen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 01:52:25 2011
From: zpengxen at gmail.com (ZhouPeng)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:52:25 +0800
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
Message-ID: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

In my program, I get a listen element by
listen = graphics.find("listen")

print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20>
print type listen is <type 'instance'>
I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.

But print bool(listen) is False
if not listen  is True

-- 
Zhou Peng


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 03:04:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:04:11 +1100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jan6og$jlt$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<jan6og$jlt$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrxe+6DzsrF3tHyEtQHY2Z8fAQtiByrnYvH0h8zJap82A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2011 00:04:04 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>
>> My Linux system includes compilers or interpreters for C, Pascal,
>> Haskell, Forth, Python, Ruby, PHP, Javascript, Java, bash, csh, zsh, sh,
>> awk, sed, Perl, SQL, Tcl, Tk, OpenXion, and very likely others. Most of
>
> ? ? ? ?What? No REXX? <G>
>
> ? ? ? ?{Granted, other than IBM's mainframes, the only decent REXX
> implementation [heck, maybe even better] was the Amiga version -- it was
> integrated well into the Amiga message passing IPC system, such that
> pretty much any application with an ARexx port could connect to and
> control any other application with an ARexx port}

IBM's non-mainframes too - their OS/2 implementation was - and still
is - awesome. I use REXX for a variety of odds and ends, everything
from simple scripts up to full-on GUI applications. Yes, we still use
OS/2 (as well as Windows and Linux - mixed LANs are fun).

ChrisA


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Nov 25 03:14:36 2011
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:14:36 +0000
Subject: MailingLogger 3.6.0 Released!
Message-ID: <4ECF4E6C.3050308@simplistix.co.uk>

I'm pleased to announce a new release of Mailinglogger.

Mailinglogger provides two handlers for the standard python
logging framework that enable log entries to be emailed either as the
entries are logged or as a summary at the end of the running process.

The handlers have the following features:

- customisable and dynamic subject lines for emails sent

- emails sent with a configurable headers for easy filtering

- flood protection to ensure the number of emails sent is not excessive

- support for SMTP servers that require authentication

- fully documented and tested

The only change for this release is to allow summaries sent by 
SummarisingLogger to contain messages logged at a lower level than those 
which triggered the summary to be emailed.

Full docs can be found here:

http://packages.python.org/mailinglogger/

For more information, please see:
http://www.simplistix.co.uk/software/python/mailinglogger
or
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailinglogger

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk





From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 03:46:17 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:46:17 +1100
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
In-Reply-To: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqgqxWQMfAO6LWwSN64RivHq6TYALkB9PJkj-Ey9y6yuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:52 PM, ZhouPeng <zpengxen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
>
> But print bool(listen) is False
> if not listen ?is True

Casting something to boolean follows strict rules derived from the
notion that emptiness is false and nonemptiness is true. For instance:

>>> bool(""),bool([]),bool({}),bool(0)
(False, False, False, False)

Details here: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html

Chris Angelico


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Nov 25 03:58:30 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:58:30 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF58B6.1060906@timgolden.me.uk>

On 25/11/2011 03:47, alex23 wrote:
> Tim Golden<m... at timgolden.me.uk>  wrote:
>> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function:
>> Open a cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>>
>> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window.
>> Do some random cmd stuff: dir, cd, etc.
>>
>> Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back
>> the previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you
>> entered in the surrounding shell)
>
> This isn't true, at least not for ActivePython 2.7.2.5 under Windows
> 7-64. The second session has no history whatsoever.

Well I don't know what to say. It works for me with an almost
identical setup. (ActivePython 2.7.1.4 Win7 x64). And has worked
for me over countless setups on different machines / versions of
Windows / versions of Python etc.

Do you have the pyreadline module installed? ISTR that that takes
over from the standard cmd processing...

TJG


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 25 03:59:41 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 08:59:41 GMT
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
References: <mailman.3026.1322203948.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecf58fd$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:52:25 +0800, ZhouPeng wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> In my program, I get a listen element by listen =
> graphics.find("listen")

What is a listen element? It is not a standard Python object. What 
library is it from?


> print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20> print type listen is <type
> 'instance'> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
> 
> But print bool(listen) is False

What makes you think this is a strange result? Many things are false:

py> for obj in (None, [], {}, 0, 0.0, "", 42):
...     print bool(obj),
... 
False False False False False False True


-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 25 04:06:05 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:06:05 +0100
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>

ZhouPeng wrote:

> In my program, I get a listen element by
> listen = graphics.find("listen")
> 
> print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20>
> print type listen is <type 'instance'>
> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
> 
> But print bool(listen) is False
> if not listen  is True

bool(listen) is False here means that the Element has no children.

Quoting
http://effbot.org/zone/elementtree-13-intro.htm#truth-testing

"""
Truth testing #
The Element type now issues a warning when used in a ?boolean context?. To 
get rid of the warning, make the test explicit:
if len(elem):
    ... has at least one children ...

elem = root.find("tag")
if elem is not None:
    ... found ...
Explicit tests work just fine in ET 1.2, of course.
The boolean interpretation will most likely change in future versions, so 
that all elements evaluate to true, also if they have no children.
"""





From zpengxen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:09:43 2011
From: zpengxen at gmail.com (ZhouPeng)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:09:43 +0800
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
In-Reply-To: <janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAAh7U5PnhrJYSfGsP=JoOOtm_LBaxPCV6R1Gw=8L4F7T2fLQmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all.

I am a c/c++ programer before,
So I directly think it is the same roughly between

if not obj: (in python) and if (!obj) {(in c/c++)

/ if obj: (in python) and if (obj) {(in c/c++)

That if obj is not None, 'if obj:' goes true branch, 'if not obj:'
goes false branch,
and I don't need to care where the obj is from (what type or what lib)

But, Now it seem not be consistent, so I feel strange.
And it seem be obj's library related in python.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>What is a listen element? It is not a standard Python object. What
>library is it from?
from xml.etree.ElementTree

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> ZhouPeng wrote:
>
>> In my program, I get a listen element by
>> listen = graphics.find("listen")
>>
>> print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20>
>> print type listen is <type 'instance'>
>> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
>>
>> But print bool(listen) is False
>> if not listen ?is True
>
> bool(listen) is False here means that the Element has no children.
> Quoting
> http://effbot.org/zone/elementtree-13-intro.htm#truth-testing
Thanks,
> """
> Truth testing #
> The Element type now issues a warning when used in a ?boolean context?. To
> get rid of the warning, make the test explicit:
> if len(elem):
> ? ?... has at least one children ...
>
> elem = root.find("tag")
> if elem is not None:
> ? ?... found ...
> Explicit tests work just fine in ET 1.2, of course.
> The boolean interpretation will most likely change in future versions, so
> that all elements evaluate to true, also if they have no children.
> """
Yea,  you are right.
And I got it later, when I run my program in python 2.7.2,
It complains:
FutureWarning: The behavior of this method will change in future versions.
Use specific 'len(elem)' or 'elem is not None' test instead. if not graphics:
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-- 
Zhou Peng


From enalicho at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:13:00 2011
From: enalicho at gmail.com (Noah Hall)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:13:00 +0000
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOv69sahmyTsd7k-NE20GPP0ALWeRRUDkJo_TtwOEOX63pmAPw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joiner <anacrolix at gmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.
>
> Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?

Ignore him, he's a troll with an unjustly inflated ego.


From onlinedollarsgroups at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:33:25 2011
From: onlinedollarsgroups at gmail.com (onlinedollars earning)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:33:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Amazing website!!!
Message-ID: <93aa2e6b-60c8-4aef-8ef6-ed6407c008a2@x30g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hai,
      I have a tips for earn money from home.Just go to
http://onlinedollarsgroups.blogspot.com/2011/11/blog-post_25.html
this
weblink.Then  click open new tab via that link.One new website will
display,then sign up this,and
earn money (or)and get any products in low price,offers etc.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov 25 05:37:14 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:37:14 +0100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 25.11.2011 04:49, schrieb alex23:
> On Nov 24, 6:51 pm, Tim Golden<m... at timgolden.me.uk>  wrote:
>> The Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows
>> (a la Ctrl-D on Linux).
>
> With ActivePython, Ctrl-D works as well, which is a godsend as I'm
> constantly working across Windows&  linux.
>
>> In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
>> the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
>> history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
>> and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
>> into the cmd shell.
>
> And again, I'm definitely not seeing this. Inside the one cmd shell,
> each instance of Python has no recollection of the history of the
> last.

I'm seeing history browsing in Python on MS Windows XP here and it also 
works for every other commandline-based program. Well, it seems with the 
exception of the ActivePython distribution of Python. That one 
intentionally changes the MS Windows defaults like Control-Z behaviour 
and at the same time, maybe even as a side effect, it breaks the shell's 
history browsing.

You don't happen to have an installation of the vanilla Python 
distribution to test, do you? This is getting me curious...

Uli


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:42:50 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 21:42:50 +1100
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
In-Reply-To: <CAAh7U5PnhrJYSfGsP=JoOOtm_LBaxPCV6R1Gw=8L4F7T2fLQmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAAh7U5PnhrJYSfGsP=JoOOtm_LBaxPCV6R1Gw=8L4F7T2fLQmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr52h=8hiW8qXfLX=pysqv90ZZmFVD0Jp6Z=yHKos=QPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:09 PM, ZhouPeng <zpengxen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks all.
> if not obj: (in python) and if (!obj) {(in c/c++)
>
> / if obj: (in python) and if (obj) {(in c/c++)
>

> Yea, ?you are right.
> And I got it later, when I run my program in python 2.7.2,
> It complains:
> FutureWarning: The behavior of this method will change in future versions.
> Use specific 'len(elem)' or 'elem is not None' test instead. if not graphics:

Yep, this is exactly what you need to do. Check if 'elem is None' to
see if it's there or not.

Chris Angelico


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:55:53 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:55:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4ECBEBEC.2010300@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <efe092bb-e7a9-458a-be09-a786574ce51f@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 22, 1:37?pm, Alan Meyer <amey... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/20/2011 7:46 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
>
> > Hello:
>
> > I am currently working on designing a new programming language. ...
>
> I have great respect for people who take on projects like this.
>
> Your chances of popularizing the language are small. ?There must be
> thousands of projects like this for every one that gets adopted by other
> people. ?However your chances of learning a great deal are large,
> including many things that you'll be able to apply to programs and
> projects that, at first glance, wouldn't appear to benefit from this
> kind of experience. ?If you get it working you'll have an impressive
> item to add to your resume.
>
> I suspect that you'll also have a lot of fun.
>
> Good luck with it.
>
> ? ? ?Alan

I've been learning a lot and having tons of fun just designing the
language. First, I get think about all of the language features that I
find useful. Then I get to learn a little bit how they work
internally.

For instance, functions are first-class citizens in Unit, supporting
closures. To make that happen meant wrapping such functions inside of
types and silently elavating local variables to reference counted
pointers.

Or, I realized that in order to support default arguments, I would
have to silently wrap parameters in types that were either set or not
set. That way calls to the default command could simply be replaced by
an if statement. It was a really subtle implementation detail.

It is also fun thinking about what makes sense. For instance, Unit
will support calling methods with named arguments. Originally, I
thought about using the '=' operator:

Foo(name="bob" age=64)

but, then I realized that the equals sign could be confused with
assignment. Those types of syntactic conflicts occur quite often and
lead to a lot of rethinking. Ultimately, somewhat good ideas get
replaced with much better ideas. I had been contemplating Unit for
months before the final look and feel of the language came into view.
It isn't what I started out imagining, but I think it turned out
better than I had originally planned.


Recently, I rethought how functions looked, since the headers were too
long:

alias Predicate = function<T> (value: & readonly T) throws()
returns(Boolean)
let Any = public function<T>
    (values: & readonly IIterable<T>)
    (?predicate: Predicate<T>)
    throws() # ArgumentNullException inherits from UncheckedException
    returns(Boolean): # this can be on one line
    default predicate = (function value: true)
    assert predicate != null "The predicate cannot be null."
ArgumentNullException
    for value in values:
        if predicate(value):
            return true
    return false

Most of the time, throws clauses, returns clauses and parameter type
constraints can be left off. Plus, now they can all appear on one
line. Assertions and default statements now appear in the body.
Assertions now optionally take a message and the exception type to
throw.

So, yeah, this has been an awesome project so far. I have dozens of
documents and I have been keeping up on a blog. I've even started
implementing a simple recursive descent parser just to make sure the
syntax doesn't conflict. Now it will be a matter of formally defining
a grammer and implementing the backend of the compiler... which I've
never done before. I have been thinking about compiling into a
language like C++ or C instead of assembler for my first time through.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 06:10:00 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 22:10:00 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <efe092bb-e7a9-458a-be09-a786574ce51f@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4ECBEBEC.2010300@yahoo.com>
	<efe092bb-e7a9-458a-be09-a786574ce51f@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoQd8Qrpayhx1DnDZLnFznB5tkiyRZOBTKFK7bDcrzt8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been thinking about compiling into a
> language like C++ or C instead of assembler for my first time through.

Yep, or any other language you feel like using as an intermediate. Or
alternatively, just start with an interpreter - whatever's easiest.
Compiling to C gives you a massive leg-up on portability; so does
writing an interpreter in C, as either way your language is easily
made available on every platform that gcc's been ported to.

As long as you're happy with the idea of building a massively language
that'll never be used by anybody but yourself, you can have immense
fun with this. And hey, Unit might turn out to be a beautiful niche
language, or even go mainstream.

But mainly, you'll have fun doing it. And if you're not having fun,
what's the use of living forever? (Oh wait, you're not a vampire from
Innistrad. Sorry about that.)

ChrisA


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 06:15:30 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:15:30 +0000
Subject: getting svn tag in version
Message-ID: <4ECF78D2.8000502@gmail.com>

Given a project with many eggs, I would like to make it easy to have all 
the version numbers synchronized
to the upper level SVN version.

So for example I might have svn tags
0.1,
0.2
and a development version.
The development version should get version -dev, and the others 0.1 and 0.2

I found few examples around that read and parse the .svn/entries file, 
is it really
the best way to do it?


From user at nospam.invalid  Fri Nov 25 06:24:44 2011
From: user at nospam.invalid (user)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:24:44 +0100
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
Message-ID: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>

In a Makefile (or sometimes inside python) I need the path to the 
root of the Python standard lib folder used by "env python".

e.g.  /usr/lib/python2.6/   or    C:\Python27\Lib\

what is the best/canonical way to get that?


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Nov 25 06:29:51 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:29:51 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4ECF7C2F.8090905@timgolden.me.uk>

On 25/11/2011 10:37, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Am 25.11.2011 04:49, schrieb alex23:
>> On Nov 24, 6:51 pm, Tim Golden<m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>>> The Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows
>>> (a la Ctrl-D on Linux).
>>
>> With ActivePython, Ctrl-D works as well, which is a godsend as I'm
>> constantly working across Windows& linux.
>>
>>> In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
>>> the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
>>> history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
>>> and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
>>> into the cmd shell.
>>
>> And again, I'm definitely not seeing this. Inside the one cmd shell,
>> each instance of Python has no recollection of the history of the
>> last.
>
> I'm seeing history browsing in Python on MS Windows XP here and it also
> works for every other commandline-based program. Well, it seems with the
> exception of the ActivePython distribution of Python. That one
> intentionally changes the MS Windows defaults like Control-Z behaviour
> and at the same time, maybe even as a side effect, it breaks the shell's
> history browsing.

Except that, intriguingly, I'm also using an ActiveState distro
and it neither adds Ctrl-D nor prevents history. But I'm
fairly sure that pyreadline does both of those things.

TJG



From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Nov 25 07:31:10 2011
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:31:10 +0100
Subject: ANN: python-ldap 2.4.5
Message-ID: <mailman.3045.1322234765.27778.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new release of python-ldap:

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-ldap/2.4.4

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

Project's web site:

  http://www.python-ldap.org/

Ciao, Michael.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.4.5 2011-11-25

Changes since 2.4.4:

Installation:
* defines for SASL and SSL in setup.cfg to be more friendly to
  Python setup tools (easy_install)

Lib/
* Fixed typo in ldap.functions._ldap_function_call() which
  always released ldap._ldap_module_lock instead of local lock
* ldap.controls.ppolicy:
  Fixed decoding the password policy response control

Demo/
* Demo script for ldap.controls.ppolicy


From 1989lzhh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 07:47:11 2011
From: 1989lzhh at gmail.com (=?GB2312?B?wfXV8bqj?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:47:11 +0800
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
Message-ID: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can not
find a solution to do it.
I know the way to change the file creation timestamp in C under Windows,
but I want to change it using python.
I really need help!

Regards,
Liu Zhenhai
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From massi_srb at msn.com  Fri Nov 25 08:00:04 2011
From: massi_srb at msn.com (Massi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:00:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
Message-ID: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

in my project I have the following directory structure:

plugins
    |
    -- wav_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- WavPlug.py
    -- mp3_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- Mp3Plug.py
...
    -- etc_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- EtcPlug.py

Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
like that:

from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug

and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
how. Any hints?
Thanks in advance.



From d at davea.name  Fri Nov 25 08:08:08 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:08:08 -0500
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
In-Reply-To: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4ECF9338.1050007@davea.name>

On 11/25/2011 06:24 AM, user wrote:
> In a Makefile (or sometimes inside python) I need the path to the root 
> of the Python standard lib folder used by "env python".
>
> e.g.  /usr/lib/python2.6/   or    C:\Python27\Lib\
>
> what is the best/canonical way to get that?

You could look at sys.executable.  However, on my Linux, it's a symlink, 
so you have to dereference that to get the directory involved.

-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Fri Nov 25 08:18:30 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:18:30 -0500
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
In-Reply-To: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF95A6.20808@davea.name>

On 11/25/2011 08:00 AM, Massi wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> in my project I have the following directory structure:
>
> plugins
>      |
>      -- wav_plug
>            |
>            -- __init__.py
>            -- WavPlug.py
>      -- mp3_plug
>            |
>            -- __init__.py
>            -- Mp3Plug.py
> ...
>      -- etc_plug
>            |
>            -- __init__.py
>            -- EtcPlug.py
>
> Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
> to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
> like that:
>
> from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
> from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug
>
> and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
> have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
> through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
> the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
> I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
> how. Any hints?
> Thanks in advance.
>
I think the key to the problem is the __import__() function, which takes 
a string and returns a module object.  So you make a list of the fully 
qualified module names (filenames less the extension), and loop through 
that list,  Then for each one, you can extract items from the module.

It doesn't make sense to define the class names at your top-level, 
though, since you'd not have any code to reference any new plugin if it 
has a unique class name. So at some point, you're probably going to have 
a list or map of such class objects.



-- 

DaveA



From ironfroggy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 08:23:33 2011
From: ironfroggy at gmail.com (Calvin Spealman)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:23:33 -0500
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
In-Reply-To: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAGaVwhSGKffECg4RMRUw1mrn0HvLWWGrySADOf8SMc=i6oVyDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 6:24 AM, user <user at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In a Makefile (or sometimes inside python) I need the path to the root of
> the Python standard lib folder used by "env python".
>
> e.g. ?/usr/lib/python2.6/ ? or ? ?C:\Python27\Lib\
>
> what is the best/canonical way to get that?

This should get you what you're looking for. Just look relative to a
known stdlib module.

import os
stdlib_dir = os.path.dirname(os.__file__)

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Read my blog! I depend on your acceptance of my opinion! I am interesting!
http://techblog.ironfroggy.com/
Follow me if you're into that sort of thing: http://www.twitter.com/ironfroggy


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Nov 25 08:43:58 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:43:58 +0100
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
In-Reply-To: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF9B9E.704@sequans.com>

Massi wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> in my project I have the following directory structure:
>
> plugins
>     |
>     -- wav_plug
>           |
>           -- __init__.py
>           -- WavPlug.py
>     -- mp3_plug
>           |
>           -- __init__.py
>           -- Mp3Plug.py
> ...
>     -- etc_plug
>           |
>           -- __init__.py
>           -- EtcPlug.py
>
> Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
> to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
> like that:
>
> from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
> from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug
>
> and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
> have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
> through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
> the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
> I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
> how. Any hints?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>   
Hi,

Try something like (*untested code*)

plugins = {}
classes = {}

for plugin, className in [('wav_plug', 'WavPlug'), ('mp3_plug', 'Mp3Plug')]:
    plugins[plugin] = __import__(os.path.join('plugins', plugin, className))
    classes[className] = getattr(plugins[plugin], className)

# raise a keyError if the plugin has not been imported
wav = classes['wav_plug']()


Make sure all subdirs have the __init__.py file, including the plugins 
directory.

JM


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Fri Nov 25 08:50:01 2011
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:01 +0000
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to XML)
Message-ID: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:

input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
big_json = json.load(input_source)
input_source.close()

Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary), and I save the
document:

xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
xml_file.close()


I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
gives some errors like these on a few documents:

PCDATA invalid Char value 7
PCDATA invalid Char value 31

I guess I need to process each piece of PCDATA to clean out the
control characters before creating the text node:

  text = doc.createTextNode(j)
  root.appendChild(text)

What's the best way to do that, bearing in mind that there can be
multibyte characters in the strings?  I found some suggestions on the
WWW involving filter with string.printable, which AFAICT isn't
unicode-friendly --- is there a unicode.printable or something like
that?


-- 
"Mrs CJ and I avoid clich?s like the plague."


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 08:51:34 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:51:34 +1100
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
In-Reply-To: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGcu1a50hgjzNvq07-Axh=r0Y-=fydoc9oEkoQN6rZzHYw@mail.gmail.com>

import os
import time
from stat import *

#returns a list of all the files on the current directory
files = os.listdir('.')

for f in files:
  #my folder has some jpegs and raw images
  if f.lower().endswith('jpg') or f.lower().endswith('crw'):
    st = os.stat(f)
    atime = st[ST_ATIME] #access time
    mtime = st[ST_MTIME] #modification time

    new_mtime = mtime + (4*3600) #new modification time

    #modify the file timestamp
    os.utime(f,(atime,new_mtime))

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:47 PM, ??? <1989lzhh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can not
> find a solution to do it.
> I know the way to?change the file creation timestamp in C under Windows, but
> I want to change it using python.
> I really need help!
>
> Regards,
> Liu Zhenhai
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov 25 09:11:06 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:11:06 +0100
Subject: getting svn tag in version
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3036.1322219736.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3036.1322219736.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecfa1fc$0$6909$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 25-11-2011 12:15, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> Given a project with many eggs, I would like to make it easy to have all the version
> numbers synchronized
> to the upper level SVN version.
> 
> So for example I might have svn tags
> 0.1,
> 0.2
> and a development version.
> The development version should get version -dev, and the others 0.1 and 0.2
> 
> I found few examples around that read and parse the .svn/entries file, is it really
> the best way to do it?

I wouldn't do that, you'll be dependent on the svn implementation. For instance, in svn
1.7, they changed the .svn folder.

Easiest is probably parsing the output of the command line svn:

svn info --xml


Irmen



From someone at someplace.invalid  Fri Nov 25 10:44:19 2011
From: someone at someplace.invalid (HoneyMonster)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:44:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.2696.1321268146.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaod4j$37c$1@news.albasani.net>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:55:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Tracubik <affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> i'm developing a new program.
>> Mission: learn a bit of database management
> 
> If your goal is to learn about databasing, then I strongly recommend a
> real database engine.
> 
>> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
>> sqlite at the beginning.
>>
>> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or
>> similar,
>> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> 
> The complexity, in most cases, is a direct consequence of the job at
> hand. I recommend PostgreSQL generally, although I've never used it with
> Python and can't speak for the quality of the APIs.
> 
> The most important thing to consider is a separation of the back end
> (the "guts") from the front end (the "interface"). Since your goal is to
> explore databases, the guts of your code will basically just be working
> with the database (no heavy computation or anything). Make sure you can
> work with that, separately from your GUI. You may find it easier to
> dispense with GTK and just work through the console; you can always
> change later to make a pretty window.
> 
> If you've never worked with databases before, it may be best to skip
> Python altogether and explore the fundamentals of relational database
> engines. There's plenty of excellent tutorials on the web. Get to know
> how things are done generally, and you'll be able to figure out how
> things are done in Python.

I agree that given "Mission: learn a bit of database management", Python 
is not really relevant at this stage. I also entirely concur with your 
recommendation of PostgreSQL.

Just for information, PostgreSQL works very well indeed with Psycopg (a 
PostgreSQL adapter for Python), but for learning purposes straightforward 
PSQL is best to start with.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 10:48:35 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:48:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
In-Reply-To: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <1236612.727.1322236115510.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

You can try

PYLIB = $(shell python -c 'import distutils.sysconfig; print distutils.sysconfig.get_python_lib()')

(or pack the long command line in a script).


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 10:49:43 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 02:49:43 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <jaod4j$37c$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.2696.1321268146.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaod4j$37c$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=O4v46s_ymLciSLt0bUJDH-o8rU+DhoXqygZgo25smQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 2:44 AM, HoneyMonster <someone at someplace.invalid> wrote:
> Just for information, PostgreSQL works very well indeed with Psycopg (a
> PostgreSQL adapter for Python), but for learning purposes straightforward
> PSQL is best to start with.

Thanks for that. I've used PgSQL from C++ (using libpqxx), PHP, Pike,
and the command line, but not from Python. (Yeah, a lot of Ps in
that.)

Once you start looking to write actual code, Python will be an
excellent choice. But master the basics of
database/schema/table/column, primary keys, etc, etc, etc, first.

ChrisA


From maxthemouse at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 25 11:31:56 2011
From: maxthemouse at googlemail.com (MaxTheMouse)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:31:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me> <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3023.1322196607.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ce7e33b-418b-478d-bada-0e128ddf7cb6@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 24, 10:49?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2011 00:16:06 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> > chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> > doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> > due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> > his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.
>

I guess I will put in my 2 cents. I installed EPD from Enthought on 64
bit Win 7 Enterprise. Both 32 bit and 64 versions resulted in having
"Edit with Idle" when I right-click on a file. I don't have system
administration privileges on this machine so I have no idea how the
installer did it.

Cheers,
Adam


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 12:01:34 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:01:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affdfsdfds... at b.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i'm developing a new program.
> Mission: learn a bit of database management
> Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> db: that's the question
>
> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
>
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>
> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> Thank you all
>
> MedeoTL
>
> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)

To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
[Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager

> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
normalization.
After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
the other good stuff.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 12:11:01 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:11:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 5:46?am, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.
>
> Can anyone list a good introduction to the files found in the source
> code? I have been poking around the source code for a little bit and
> there is a lot there. So, I was hoping someone could point me to the
> "good parts". I am also wondering whether some of the code was
> generated because I see state transition tables, which I doubt someone
> built by hand.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. It will be cool to see how the
> interpreter works internally. I am still wonder whether designing the
> language (going on 4 months now) will be harder than implementing it.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

- compiled language
- indentation based
- functional programming features

Looks like a description of Haskell.  You may want to look there.

Back end: LLVM is gaining a lot of traction these days. Seems to give
best of both worlds -- compiling to C and to machine code


From roy at panix.com  Fri Nov 25 12:16:21 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:16:21 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-9F1201.12162125112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b at p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
 rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is 
> normalization. After that you can look at transactions, ACID, 
> distribution and all the other good stuff.

And when you're all done with that, you can start unlearning everything 
you've learned about normalization (not that you shouldn't learn about 
it in the first place, just that you should also learn when excessive 
normalization is a bad thing).

And then start looking at BASE (Basic Availability, Soft-state, 
Eventually consistent) as an alternative to ACID.

Don't get me wrong.  SQL is a powerful tool, and truly revolutionized 
the database world.  Anybody who is thinking about going into databases 
as a career needs to know SQL.  But, it's not the end of the road.  
There is life after SQL, and that's worth exploring too.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 25 12:56:07 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:56:07 +0000
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <CAOv69sahmyTsd7k-NE20GPP0ALWeRRUDkJo_TtwOEOX63pmAPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOv69sahmyTsd7k-NE20GPP0ALWeRRUDkJo_TtwOEOX63pmAPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECFD6B7.30205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 25/11/2011 10:13, Noah Hall wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joiner<anacrolix at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.
>>
>> Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?
>
> Ignore him, he's a troll with an unjustly inflated ego.

He has previously posted under the name "rantingrick".

In brief, his posts have been about how Python is doomed unless it's
rescued from the elite who are ignoring the needs of the silent
majority by not fixing this or that, and he offers himself as the one
who'll lead the Python community into the promised land, or something
like that.


From nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 13:00:21 2011
From: nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com (Nikunj Badjatya)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 23:30:21 +0530
Subject: How to keep Console area fixed for a thread
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAOwQg9u9xXJn=gryJxxBOiEU_p_M4k39yFp_rc7xSZPF4PfKJA@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?




On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:05 PM, <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:

> Hi All,****
>
> ** **
>
> Please look at the code below.****
>
> I am using pypi progressbar. But in general, How can I keep the area of
> the console fixed for  the thread to print its status on it.****
>
> ** **
>
> {{{****
>
> import sys****
>
> import time****
>
> import threading****
>
> import os****
>
> ** **
>
> from progressbar import AnimatedMarker, Bar, BouncingBar, Counter, ETA, \*
> ***
>
>                         FileTransferSpeed, FormatLabel, Percentage, \****
>
>                         ProgressBar, ReverseBar, RotatingMarker, \****
>
>                         SimpleProgress, Timer****
>
>                         ****
>
> def ProgBar():****
>
>     widgets = [' ', Percentage(), ' ',
> Bar(marker='#',left='[',right=']'),' ']****
>
>     pbar = ProgressBar(widgets=widgets, maxval=100)****
>
>     pbar.start()****
>
>     return pbar****
>
>     ****
>
> def update2(i):****
>
>     os.environ["PBAR"] = i****
>
>     print(?This will print for every call to update?)****
>
>     return ****
>
>     ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> class MyThread(threading.Thread):****
>
>     def run(self):****
>
>         l = 0****
>
>         while True:****
>
>             n = os.getenv("PBAR", "")****
>
>             if len(n) != 0:****
>
>                 n = int(n)****
>
>                 if n > l:****
>
>                     pbar.update(n)****
>
>                     l = n****
>
>                     if n == 100:****
>
>                         break ****
>
>                 else:****
>
>                     continue       ****
>
> ** **
>
> pbar = ProgBar()****
>
> mythread = MyThread()****
>
> mythread.daemon = True  ****
>
> mythread.start() ****
>
> ** **
>
>         ****
>
> for i in range(101):****
>
>     update2("{0}".format(i))****
>
>     time.sleep(0.25)****
>
> ** **
>
>   }}}  ****
>
> ** **
>
> {{{****
>
> Output:****
>
> ** **
>
> [image: output.jpeg]****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> }}}****
>
> ** **
>
> But I require the output to be of type:****
>
> {{{****
>
> 13%  [###########                               ]****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> }}}****
>
> ** **
>
> This is just a sample piece of code for narrowing down the problem. ****
>
> How can I fix the cursor position fix for the thread which is updating my
> progressbar .?****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Nikunj****
>
> Bangalore-India****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Nov 25 13:54:13 2011
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:54:13 +0000
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD0A5@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
References: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD0A5@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
Message-ID: <4ECFE455.30904@simplistix.co.uk>

On 22/11/2011 18:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

How about the core logging package included in Python itself?

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
             - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Fri Nov 25 14:52:56 2011
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:52:56 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <jaorms$u5a$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 25.11.2011 01:16, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>
> As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.
>
I'm using Python 3.2.2 on Windows 7, 64 bit, and I get "Edit with IDLE" 
and "Edit with PythonWin" in my context menu. I installed Python from 
the Python.org site, the Windows extensions from Sourceforge, both of 
them for all users and without any changes to the standard installation 
or to file associations.

This isn't the first Python 3 version on this machine, I don't know if 
that might be relevant.

But it's a fact that changing the applications shown in the context menu 
for a file association isn't obvious any more on Windows 7.

HTH
Sibylle



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 25 18:19:25 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <26406614.367.1322263165339.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnu18>


> Except that, intriguingly, I'm also using an ActiveState distro
> and it neither adds Ctrl-D nor prevents history. But I'm
> fairly sure that pyreadline does both of those things.
> 
> TJG

In python I can spawn a process to run python byte code that will produce a file with results. Easy to avoid a lot import A,B,C,D...... on the top level.




From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 25 18:19:25 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <26406614.367.1322263165339.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnu18>


> Except that, intriguingly, I'm also using an ActiveState distro
> and it neither adds Ctrl-D nor prevents history. But I'm
> fairly sure that pyreadline does both of those things.
> 
> TJG

In python I can spawn a process to run python byte code that will produce a file with results. Easy to avoid a lot import A,B,C,D...... on the top level.




From 1989lzhh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 20:12:21 2011
From: 1989lzhh at gmail.com (=?GB2312?B?wfXV8bqj?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:12:21 +0800
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGcu1a50hgjzNvq07-Axh=r0Y-=fydoc9oEkoQN6rZzHYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGcu1a50hgjzNvq07-Axh=r0Y-=fydoc9oEkoQN6rZzHYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZyxuegUyrSozf3YU5KNwLZsPWoC0Y9w9Uw_CYmyfQu1B55+g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alec
Thanks for your help.

I want to change the creation timestamp. the code that you give is to
change the modification and access time.
I already find a solution using pywin32's win32file module

import win32file
filehandle = win32file.CreateFile(file_name, win32file.GENERIC_WRITE,
            0, None, win32file.OPEN_EXISTING, 0, 0)
win32file.SetFileTime(filehandle, ctime, atime, mtime)

Regards,
Liu Zhenhai

2011/11/25 Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com>

> import os
> import time
> from stat import *
>
> #returns a list of all the files on the current directory
> files = os.listdir('.')
>
> for f in files:
>  #my folder has some jpegs and raw images
>  if f.lower().endswith('jpg') or f.lower().endswith('crw'):
>    st = os.stat(f)
>    atime = st[ST_ATIME] #access time
>    mtime = st[ST_MTIME] #modification time
>
>    new_mtime = mtime + (4*3600) #new modification time
>
>    #modify the file timestamp
>    os.utime(f,(atime,new_mtime))
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:47 PM, ??? <1989lzhh at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can not
> > find a solution to do it.
> > I know the way to change the file creation timestamp in C under Windows,
> but
> > I want to change it using python.
> > I really need help!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Liu Zhenhai
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
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From alex.kapps at web.de  Fri Nov 25 20:34:19 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 02:34:19 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jan6oh$jm1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>	<4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<4ECEE208.9010602@web.de>
	<jan6oh$jm1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED0421B.3080801@web.de>

On 25.11.2011 05:49, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:32:08 +0100, Alexander Kapps<alex.kapps at web.de>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>
>> The main difference here is, that Linux makes it easy to seperate
>> administrative accounts from end-user accounts,
>>
> 	So does Win7... Heck -- I have to answer prompts to OK an installer
> even while logged into my admin account!

For Windows, Left-Clicking an OK button to confirm potentionally 
dangerous admin tasks is like linking the acceleration pedal in your 
car to the brake pedal(If the traffic light shows Red/Stop, push the 
acceleration pedal to break)

I mean, seriously, left-clicking an OK button is something *SO* 
unusual to Windows users that you could also just remove that 
"barrier" altogether.

</sarcasm>

Now, OK, I don't really know any  Windows version after XP, so 
things might have changed. But what I see from the casual Win users 
in my environment is that nothing has really changed.



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 22:42:31 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:42:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3030.1322211521.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e787409a-c205-464c-a2ba-9735bbf35b58@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 6:58?pm, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> Do you have the pyreadline module installed? ISTR that that takes
> over from the standard cmd processing...

I'm pretty sure I do.

It's really not an issue, though, as I tend to stick to linux &
iPython where possible :)



From illy at otekno.biz  Fri Nov 25 22:45:05 2011
From: illy at otekno.biz (Illy)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:45:05 +0700
Subject: myComboBox.SetValue() does not work in windows.
Message-ID: <4ED060C1.3050609@otekno.biz>

Dear friends....

Anybody know how can I change the text of a ComboBox? Because
"
myComboBox.SetValue("my text")
"
does not work on Windows.

Anybody would be so nice for telling me complete reference/documentation 
about wxPython on windows? Because the wxPython between on Linux and on 
Windows are sometimes different.

Thank you very much in advance.

-- 
Let us cut your costs for your business: http://www.otekno.biz
Skype: otekno.biz
Yahoo-ID: ceo.opentek at ymail.com
OpenTEKID: ceo at opentek.tv
Mobile: 087 888 04 26 77
Office: +62-21-4587 90 75, 4587 68 08
Fax: +62-21-4587 64 65
BlackBerry Messanger: 274DF07F



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 23:15:47 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:15:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1603fc14-93b7-4e07-b891-631c083c60bc@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 11:00?pm, Massi <massi_... at msn.com> wrote:
> plugins
> ? ? |
> ? ? -- wav_plug
> ? ? ? ? ? |
> ? ? ? ? ? -- __init__.py
> ? ? ? ? ? -- WavPlug.py
> ? ? -- mp3_plug
> ? ? ? ? ? |
> ? ? ? ? ? -- __init__.py
> ? ? ? ? ? -- Mp3Plug.py
> ...
> ? ? -- etc_plug
> ? ? ? ? ? |
> ? ? ? ? ? -- __init__.py
> ? ? ? ? ? -- EtcPlug.py

What do you gain by having each plugin as a package? Unless you're
storing other resources with each plugin, I'd move all your XXXPlug.py
files into plugins/ I'd also probably call the modules 'wavplug' and
the class 'WavPlug' to always make it clear  to which you're
referring.

> Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
> to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
> like that:
>
> from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
> from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug
>
> and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
> have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
> through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
> the submodules contained in each subdirectory?

It's not exactly automatic, but you could move all of those imports
into plugins/__init__.py, then just do a single

   from plugins import *

in your main module.


From fred.sells at adventistcare.org  Fri Nov 25 23:22:46 2011
From: fred.sells at adventistcare.org (Sells, Fred)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 23:22:46 -0500
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FF33FE3F6BACC544A34043593DB53BA20AFE7FC2@acesxch03.ADVENTISTCORP.NET>

I'm looking at a variation on this theme.  I currently use
Flex/ActionScript for client side work, but there is pressure to move
toward HTML5+Javascript and or iOS.  Since I'm an old hand at Python, I
was wondering if there is a way to use it to model client side logic,
then generate the javascript and ActionScript.  I don't see an issue
using custom python objects to render either mxml, xaml or html5 but I'm
not aware if anyone has already solved the problem of converting Python
(byte code?) to these languages?  Any suggestions.



From metolone at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 23:26:31 2011
From: metolone at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:26:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me> <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3049.1322250797.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd28798d-9549-4a39-aaae-94bd3e49a1a1@e12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 11:52?am, Sibylle Koczian <nulla.epist... at web.de> wrote:
> Am 25.11.2011 01:16, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>
> > As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> > chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> > doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> > due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> > his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.
>
> I'm using Python 3.2.2 on Windows 7, 64 bit, and I get "Edit with IDLE"
> and "Edit with PythonWin" in my context menu. I installed Python from
> the Python.org site, the Windows extensions from Sourceforge, both of
> them for all users and without any changes to the standard installation
> or to file associations.
>
> This isn't the first Python 3 version on this machine, I don't know if
> that might be relevant.
>
> But it's a fact that changing the applications shown in the context menu
> for a file association isn't obvious any more on Windows 7.
>
> HTH
> Sibylle

I'm also using Python 2.7 and Python 3.3 on Windows 7, 64-bit, and
have both "Edit" menu items as well.

Changing the application defaults is now in "Default Programs" right
on the Start Menu.  It's more "obvious" than the old location, but the
old location is just known by more people and Microsoft loves to move
things around.

-Mark


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 23:48:06 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:48:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-9F1201.12162125112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <804444da-54f8-4325-b3b1-e37b9dc250f1@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 10:16?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article
> <581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887... at p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
>
> ?rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > normalization. After that you can look at transactions, ACID,
> > distribution and all the other good stuff.
>
> And when you're all done with that, you can start unlearning everything
> you've learned about normalization (not that you shouldn't learn about
> it in the first place, just that you should also learn when excessive
> normalization is a bad thing).
>
> And then start looking at BASE (Basic Availability, Soft-state,
> Eventually consistent) as an alternative to ACID.
>
> Don't get me wrong. ?SQL is a powerful tool, and truly revolutionized
> the database world. ?Anybody who is thinking about going into databases
> as a career needs to know SQL. ?But, it's not the end of the road.
> There is life after SQL, and that's worth exploring too.

Yes going all the way up to fifth normal form can be nonsensical.
Putting it less jargony -- Given a real world scenario involving data
can you organize it into tables with reasonable foreign-key relations,
and integrity constraints? If so you can start looking beyond sql.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 01:18:50 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Nov 2011 06:18:50 GMT
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
References: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3043.1322229100.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed084ca$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:51:34 +1100, Alec Taylor wrote:

> import os
> import time
> from stat import *
> 
> #returns a list of all the files on the current directory files =
> os.listdir('.')
> 
> for f in files:
>   #my folder has some jpegs and raw images if f.lower().endswith('jpg')
>   or f.lower().endswith('crw'):
>     st = os.stat(f)
>     atime = st[ST_ATIME] #access time
>     mtime = st[ST_MTIME] #modification time

The original poster asks for how to change the file creation timestamp. 
(The poster assumes that there is a creation timestamp, which is not 
necessarily the case -- many file systems do not store the creation time.)


>     new_mtime = mtime + (4*3600) #new modification time
> 
>     #modify the file timestamp
>     os.utime(f,(atime,new_mtime))

Note that this is from the posix module, so it probably won't work under 
Windows.


> 
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:47 PM, ??? <1989lzhh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can
>> not find a solution to do it.
>> I know the way to?change the file creation timestamp in C under
>> Windows, but I want to change it using python.
>> I really need help!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liu Zhenhai
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>



From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 07:19:43 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:19:43 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <FF33FE3F6BACC544A34043593DB53BA20AFE7FC2@acesxch03.ADVENTISTCORP.NET>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<FF33FE3F6BACC544A34043593DB53BA20AFE7FC2@acesxch03.ADVENTISTCORP.NET>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1MFw4bGfQ6ndU8Ymfc2-a-z1A4viz-jKX6r85b0g1LeUg@mail.gmail.com>

http://pyjs.org/

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Sells, Fred
<fred.sells at adventistcare.org> wrote:
> I'm looking at a variation on this theme. ?I currently use
> Flex/ActionScript for client side work, but there is pressure to move
> toward HTML5+Javascript and or iOS. ?Since I'm an old hand at Python, I
> was wondering if there is a way to use it to model client side logic,
> then generate the javascript and ActionScript. ?I don't see an issue
> using custom python objects to render either mxml, xaml or html5 but I'm
> not aware if anyone has already solved the problem of converting Python
> (byte code?) to these languages? ?Any suggestions.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From no.email at please.post  Sat Nov 26 08:40:28 2011
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:40:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
Message-ID: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>


it's an all-out disgrace.

when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???

and don't tell me to do it myself: it's clear that the sorry
situation we have now is precisely that too many programmers without
the requisite expertise or policy-making authority have decided to
pitch in.  This is something for GvR and his top Python core library
team to do, because the problems are as much policy and institutional
ones as they are technical (programming) ones.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 09:22:11 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Nov 2011 14:22:11 GMT
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ed0f612$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:40:28 +0000, kj wrote:

> it's an all-out disgrace.
> 
> when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???

Python 4.3, scheduled for March 2038. It's been ready for a few years 
now, and a small secret coterie of privileged developers have been using 
it for their own in-house projects since version 2.1, but it was decided 
not to release it to the general public, because they'll just bitch and 
moan that it's a disgrace without actually explaining why they think so, 
or volunteering to help build a better system.



-- 
Steven


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sat Nov 26 09:51:22 2011
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert W. Hopkins)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:51:22 -0500
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <4ed0f612$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<4ed0f612$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1322319082.3652.3.camel@stretch>

On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 14:22 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???
> 
> Python 4.3, scheduled for March 2038. It's been ready for a few years 
> now, and a small secret coterie of privileged developers have been
> using 
> it for their own in-house projects since version 2.1, but it was
> decided 
> not to release it to the general public, because they'll just bitch
> and 
> moan that it's a disgrace without actually explaining why they think
> so, 
> or volunteering to help build a better system.
> 
> 
I suspected that all along!
> 
> 



From maxthemouse at googlemail.com  Sat Nov 26 11:22:18 2011
From: maxthemouse at googlemail.com (MaxTheMouse)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:22:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3049.1322250797.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bd28798d-9549-4a39-aaae-94bd3e49a1a1@e12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3054.1322291649.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3fe404cb-7a6d-45c4-88ea-830441d22878@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 1:13?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:26:31 -0800 (PST), Mark Tolonen
> <metol... at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Changing the application defaults is now in "Default Programs" right
> > on the Start Menu. ?It's more "obvious" than the old location, but the
> > old location is just known by more people and Microsoft loves to move
> > things around.
>
> ? ? ? ? Maybe I missed it, but when I looked at that on my Win7 laptop, I
> only saw a way to define a default for "open" action -- which, for .py
> and .pyw files, should be python.exe and pythonw.exe, respectively;
> otherwise you can't run them via double-click.
>
> ? ? ? ? What I did NOT find was a way to define OTHER actions for the
> <right-click> menu... IE; no way to define an "edit with xxx", or a
> "print" operation.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? AF6VN
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

I haven't gone back through this complicated thread so I apologize if
this has already been mentioned.

I only found a registry based way for vista and win7.
http://www.techspot.com/guides/210-edit-windows-extended-context-menu/
http://www.winvistaclub.com/e11.html


There is also the 'extended' menu by shift+right-click. Maybe the Edit
option can show up there.

Adam


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:11:38 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:11:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Return of an old friend
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 7:19?am, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Fellow Pythonistas,
>
> I am very glad to be back after an unfortunate incident caused my
> Google account to be deleted. Unfortunately for those of you that have
> been following along and supporting my crusade to bring fairness and
> humility to the python community, my old posts under "rantingrick"
> have all been deleted from Google Groups. However, you can always
> search the python-list archives if you need a jog down memory lane.
>
> Actually this accidental deletion may have been a good thing as i've
> had some extra time to muse on the innards of Python4000.
>
> In any event, this announcement is intended to be a new call to arms
> for my brothers and sisters who fight the good fight, and for those of
> you who despise me , well, this might be a good time to add my new
> moniker to your kill files.
>
> Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Hi Rick!
Glad to see you back!
[Courts can be dull places without jesters ye-know!]


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:28:48 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:28:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 6:40?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> it's an all-out disgrace.
>
> when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???
>
> and don't tell me to do it myself: it's clear that the sorry
> situation we have now is precisely that too many programmers without
> the requisite expertise or policy-making authority have decided to
> pitch in. ?This is something for GvR and his top Python core library
> team to do, because the problems are as much policy and institutional
> ones as they are technical (programming) ones.

I second this.

The only thing I disagree about is that GvR is 'top' enough to handle
this.
For example on my debian box my python system is a mishmash of debian-
apt-packages,
eggs, and hand-installed stuff.  [I believe I tried something like
pypi and did not succeed -- dont exactly remember]
So for systems like mine python and apt need to talk courteously to
each other -- not possible for the likes of u&me; hard even for the
likes of GvR.

Frankly, this is not great but could be much worse.  Some years ago
when I worked with Ruby on Rails the rails that came from debian was
an travesty.  After some suffering I gathered that the optimal
diplomacy was:
- ruby from apt
- gem hand installed
- rails from gem

While Ive never seen anything as ridiculous as the debian-rails in the
python world, its still always a hobson choice:  use a deb package
that will cleanly install, deinstall, upgrade etc but is out of date
or use a fresh and shiny egg that messes up the system.

Haskell's cabal/hackage system is just as much a mess
http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/f3lh5/haskells_own_dll_hell/

In short the mess arises from this that each of these languages comes
up with its own package management system, neglecting the fact that
the language invariably exists in a larger ecosystem


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:38:18 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 04:38:18 +1100
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqmudSR8Ea6QMYAvSDF+zAi2pwjtKNcFGcZzmzbnBA5bg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:11 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rick!
> Glad to see you back!
> [Courts can be dull places without jesters ye-know!]

So, what... you'd take someone to court for being funny? That sounds
like the -other- Pythons.

ChrisA


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:46:32 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:46:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4092a435-02fd-4705-80db-ec958a5fc968@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 11:28?am, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 6:40?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> The only thing I disagree about is that GvR is 'top' enough to handle
> this.

For a concrete example of how uninterested Mr. Van Rossum has become,
take a look at the gawd awful state of Tkinter and especially IDLE.
Whist I applaud GvR's initial good will attempts when creating these
modules, i am simultaneously ashamed of their current bit-rot states.


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 13:46:52 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 05:46:52 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGdrbhKxbjzQhtOjZDpFRMVcxrVEBbSZEG87faCDJt4EEA@mail.gmail.com>

Consider implementing OOP, reflection and implement in HLA or C

=]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.
>
> Can anyone list a good introduction to the files found in the source
> code? I have been poking around the source code for a little bit and
> there is a lot there. So, I was hoping someone could point me to the
> "good parts". I am also wondering whether some of the code was
> generated because I see state transition tables, which I doubt someone
> built by hand.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. It will be cool to see how the
> interpreter works internally. I am still wonder whether designing the
> language (going on 4 months now) will be harder than implementing it.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 13:53:15 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 20, 6:46?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks,

I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
folly?

And please, i love Python, but the language is a bit asymmetrical. Do
try to bring some symmetry to this new language. You can learn a lot
from GvR's triumphs, however, you can learn even more from his follys.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 14:34:25 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:34:25 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr2zRe6sKVN=v3zg9387EZnskP96W6MovNOhEnByWANZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
> being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
> the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
> folly?

I recommend demanding that indentation strictly alternate tabs or
spaces in successive non-blank lines. Comment-only lines must be
identical to the immediately-preceding line. A tab is equivalent to
seven spaces.

End the ambiguity!

ChrisA


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 16:15:57 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:15:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3059.1322336069.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <34d119af-3aa9-4720-944c-3852c720552a@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 1:34?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Rick Johnson
>
> <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
> > being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
> > the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
> > folly?
>
> I recommend demanding that indentation strictly alternate tabs or
> spaces in successive non-blank lines.

Funny.

> Comment-only lines must be
> identical to the immediately-preceding line.

...as in "indentation" you mean, then yes. OR suffer the syntax error.

> A tab is equivalent to
> seven spaces.

...as for "the litmus test of stdlib code" you mean, then yes. OR
suffer the syntax error.


From candide at free.invalid  Sat Nov 26 16:20:36 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
Message-ID: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function 
compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in 
which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.

Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is() 
function is mainly used in the following set form :

spam is None

But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?



is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) adresses 
of objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low level 
feature performed by low level langages such as C but seldom needed in 
high level languages like Python, isn'it ?


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 26 16:32:17 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 16:32:17 -0500
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <roy-F5D2BF.16321726112011@news.panix.com>

In article <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc at news.free.fr>,
 candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:

> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function 
> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in 
> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.
> 
> Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is() 
> function is mainly used in the following set form :
> 
> spam is None
> 
> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?

It's the difference between *being* None, and being equal to None.  For 
example:

class Spam:
    def __eq__(self, other):
        return not other

spam = Spam()
print spam is None
print spam == None

When I run that, it prints:

False
True

In practice, when you compare something to None, you usually want the 
"is" form.  In cases where either would work (i.e. 99% of the time), 
it's convention (and/or good practice) to use "is" because it more more 
clearly expresses what it is that you're trying to do.


From b49P23TIvg at stny.rr.com  Sat Nov 26 16:42:00 2011
From: b49P23TIvg at stny.rr.com (Dave)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:42:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: tkinter
Message-ID: <f90bb247-8263-4cc1-a7a6-3f052e6de5dd@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

http://forums.devshed.com/python-programming-11/setting-tkinter-checkbox-default-graphical-state-865148.html
Please answer this question I failed to resolve.
Thanks,
Dave.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 17:22:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:22:40 +1100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrtBUJeu-kh5nEHE2ngjhupi3fUueBST7MRS-nP49t1qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 8:20 AM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) adresses of
> objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low level feature
> performed by low level langages such as C but seldom needed in high level
> languages like Python, isn'it ?

You also want 'is' when you're testing for a singleton used as a default value:

DEFAULT = object()

def foo(arg1,arg2,arg3=DEFAULT):
    if arg3 is DEFAULT: print("You gave me two args")


ChrisA


From alex.kapps at web.de  Sat Nov 26 17:38:26 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ED16A62.4050009@web.de>

On 26.11.2011 22:20, candide wrote:

You already got answers for the "is" vs. "==" difference. I'd like 
to add the following.

> In which cases should we use the is() function ?

"is" is not a function, It's an operator, just like == or +.

> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of)
> adresses of objects in memory.

That's an implementation detail. CPython (and maybe others) 
implement "is" in terms of memory addresses. Other implementations 
might use an object ID number or whatever else.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 18:01:13 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Nov 2011 23:01:13 GMT
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100, candide wrote:

> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function
> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in
> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.

`is` is not a function. It is a keyword and an operator.

You should always use `is` when you intend to test for object identity, 
and never use `is` when you do not intend to test for object identity. 
For example:

TASK: check whether a number is equal to 42.

    # WRONG don't do this
    if x is 42: ...
    # RIGHT use equality instead
    if x == 42: ...

Object identity is the wrong solution here, because you cannot control 
whether Python will re-use the same object for every instance of 42, or 
different objects each time.


TASK: check whether an object is a specific sentinel value, and no other 
value, even if it happens to compare equal to the sentinel. The most 
common sentinel is the singleton None.

    # WRONG don't do this
    if x == None: ...
    # RIGHT use is instead
    if x is None: ...


Use of equality is inappropriate, because it tests whether the object 
compares equal to None. Although there are no built-ins that compare 
equal to None, there could be any number of custom objects that do, and 
so your code contains a bug: you intend to branch *only* on None, but 
might branch on some other object by mistake.


> Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is()
> function is mainly used in the following set form :
> 
> spam is None
> 
> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?

Even if you can guarantee that your code base does not contain any object 
which compares equal to None except for None itself (and how would you do 
that? a full audit of every line of code in every library you use?), the 
use of `is` should be preferred because it signals your intention much 
better.

If your intention is to accept arbitrary objects which compare equal to 
None, than by all means use == for your comparison. But normally the 
intention is to accept None, and nothing else.


> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) adresses
> of objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low level
> feature performed by low level langages such as C but seldom needed in
> high level languages like Python, isn'it ?

That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing 
for None, use of `is` should be rare.



-- 
Steven


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 18:10:40 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:10:40 -0500
Subject: tkinter
In-Reply-To: <f90bb247-8263-4cc1-a7a6-3f052e6de5dd@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <f90bb247-8263-4cc1-a7a6-3f052e6de5dd@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BCA15B10-32B9-4F9E-8C92-A385FBB5BA62@gmail.com>

The problem is that the logMode1 reference is _only_ bound to the name logMode1.  Assigning it to "variable" in the Checkbutton instance (logCheck1) does not actually generate a reference to that variable inside logCheck1.  Therefore, once the initialize method terminates, all references to logMode1 are destroyed and the variable is garbage-collected.

Therefore, that variable will be None by default, regardless of what you do to it inside "initialize", which is why the button appears unchecked.  If you create a reference to it, then the Checkbutton behaves as you'd expect (that is, it appears checked).  You can verify this easily by just making logMode1 an attribute of simpleapp_tk (replace logMode1 with self.logMode1 in every case).

You can also see this behavior by artificially lengthening the initialize method.  Import the time module and run "time.sleep(5)" at the end of initialize, and you will see the check button remain checked for 5 seconds (while the reference logMode1 survives), before the check vanishes as sleep ends and the reference leaves scope.

I would suggest that this is a checking feature rather than a bug.  The variable that you set is useless unless you plan to use the value (or if there's a case where you may use it).  If such a case exists, then you'll need a reference to that variable in the relevant scope you're dealing with.

Hope this helps,
Jason

On Nov 26, 2011, at 4:42 PM, Dave wrote:

> http://forums.devshed.com/python-programming-11/setting-tkinter-checkbox-default-graphical-state-865148.html
> Please answer this question I failed to resolve.
> Thanks,
> Dave.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Nov 26 18:41:38 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:41:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>

On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affdfs... at b.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > i'm developing a new program.
> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > db: that's the question
> >
> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > sqlite at the beginning.
> >
> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >
> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > Thank you all
> >
> > MedeoTL
> >
> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> 
> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> 
> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> 
> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> normalization.
> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> the other good stuff.

If I have a fast hash library  that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
 


From candide at free.invalid  Sat Nov 26 20:42:52 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:42:52 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the is operator
In-Reply-To: <4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks to all for your response.


Le 27/11/2011 00:01, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100, candide wrote:
>
>> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function
>> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in
>> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.
>
> `is` is not a function. It is a keyword and an operator.

oops exponent 10 !! I have in mind the id() function, very close to the 
is operator. An operator named "is" makes search of code snippets  very 
complicated because the verb "is" is always embedded in comments or 
documentation.



>> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?
>
> Even if you can guarantee that your code base does not contain any object
> which compares equal to None except for None itself (and how would you do
> that? a full audit of every line of code in every library you use?), the
> use of `is` should be preferred because it signals your intention much
> better.

OK but tons of good code use "spam == None" ; for instance, many tests 
files in Python official code. A random example (from 
openshot/openshot/windows/MainGTK.py):

# ---------------------------------------------------------------

					parent_name = item.parent
					if parent_name == None:
						match_iter = None

		# Check for NO files
		if mode == None and self.project.project_folder.items.__len__() == 0:
			#switch to the detail view

			
			if drop_track == None:
				# keep old parent, if no track found

		
		if self.new_clip_object == None:
			self.item_detected = False

# ---------------------------------------------------------------



>
> If your intention is to accept arbitrary objects which compare equal to
> None, than by all means use == for your comparison. But normally the
> intention is to accept None, and nothing else.


So, for the same reason, wouldn't it be better to use "if spam is True" 
against to "if spam == True"  (or better "if spam") ?


> That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing
> for None, use of `is` should be rare.


OK, thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 20:50:52 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:50:52 +1100
Subject: Pragmatics of the is operator
In-Reply-To: <4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrnZQpsWr1No3JOrmAYu7u3jkvB109NO5tJqbmu7f5HHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 12:42 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> So, for the same reason, wouldn't it be better to use "if spam is True"
> against to "if spam == True" ?(or better "if spam") ?
>

They're quite different. "if spam" will check the truthiness of spam -
it's equivalent to "if bool(spam) is True"; "if spam is True" checks
that it's actually a boolean. But I would recommend against the "==
True" form, as it's unclear which form you meant to use. (Others may
disagree.)

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Sat Nov 26 21:20:01 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:20:01 -0500
Subject: How to keep Console area fixed for a thread
In-Reply-To: <CAOwQg9u9xXJn=gryJxxBOiEU_p_M4k39yFp_rc7xSZPF4PfKJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAOwQg9u9xXJn=gryJxxBOiEU_p_M4k39yFp_rc7xSZPF4PfKJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED19E51.5000302@davea.name>

On 11/25/2011 01:00 PM, Nikunj Badjatya wrote:
> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>
>
>
( when you top-post, you confuse things.   comp.lang.python follows the 
usual convention of putting new material after the parts you're 
quoting.  Further, trying to embed images inside html messages will mess 
up all of us who use text readers to read a text forum. )
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:05 PM,<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com>  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Please look at the code below.****
>>
>> I am using pypi progressbar. But in general, How can I keep the area of
>> the console fixed for  the thread to print its status on it.****
>>
No idea what you're really asking.  But I'll take a wild guess.

Perhaps you're trying to divvy up a console box, and have different 
parts of it updated by different threads.  In the general case, it can't 
be done.  But if you are going to make it work, you'll need to restrict 
the environment some.  Perhaps if you reword the question, with more 
information, someone can help.

What operating system and what Python version will this have to run on?  
On Unix/Linux, you have curses that can be used at least to print 
without scrolling.  On Windows, you may have something similar, by using 
ANSI sequences, but it's been so long since I tried that I have no 
idea.  But if you just use print from different threads, the characters  
may be intermingled.


-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Sat Nov 26 21:35:29 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:35:29 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
Message-ID: <4ED1A1F1.1080404@davea.name>

On 11/26/2011 06:41 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 3:41 pm, Tracubik<affdfs... at b.com>  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> i'm developing a new program.
>>> Mission: learn a bit of database management
>>> Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
>>> seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
>>> technologies i'll use: python + gtk
>>> db: that's the question
>>>
>>> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
>>> sqlite at the beginning.
>>>
>>> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>>> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>>>
>>> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
>>> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
>>> Thank you all
>>>
>>> MedeoTL
>>>
>>> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
>>> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
>> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
>> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
>> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
>> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
>> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
>>
>>> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>>> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
>> normalization.
>> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
>> the other good stuff.
> If I have a fast hash library  that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
>
If you're using Python, you already have a "fast hash" library, in the 
dictionary class.  And yes, if a problem doesn't need the full 
generality of a database, you may be able to implement it with 
dictionaries, and it may even be practical to store those dictionaries 
to disk for later retrieval.  However, there are quite a few reasons 
this may not be good enough.  To start with just two:   if there are 
multiple users of the database, and they have to be synched.  Or if you 
have to be safe from a program or a system crashing.

-- 

DaveA



From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 26 21:49:20 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:49:20 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> If you're using Python, you already have a "fast hash" library, in the 
> dictionary class.  And yes, if a problem doesn't need the full 
> generality of a database, you may be able to implement it with 
> dictionaries, and it may even be practical to store those dictionaries 
> to disk for later retrieval.  However, there are quite a few reasons 
> this may not be good enough.  To start with just two:   if there are 
> multiple users of the database, and they have to be synched.  Or if you 
> have to be safe from a program or a system crashing.

This is a good point.  In general, databases differ from in-memory data 
structures in that they provide:

1) Persistence

2) Data integrity

3) Shared access

Different kinds of databases provide different amounts and flavors of 
these (especially #2).  I think it's fair to say, however, that those 
three in some form are essential for something that calls itself a 
database.

Where thing get fun is when you start looking at the various things out 
there that call themselves databases and need to evaluate which ones 
give you the combination of these that best match your needs.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 22:13:00 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Nov 2011 03:13:00 GMT
Subject: Pragmatics of the is operator
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ed1aabc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:42:52 +0100, candide wrote:

>> Even if you can guarantee that your code base does not contain any
>> object which compares equal to None except for None itself (and how
>> would you do that? a full audit of every line of code in every library
>> you use?), the use of `is` should be preferred because it signals your
>> intention much better.
> 
> OK but tons of good code use "spam == None" ; for instance, many tests
> files in Python official code. A random example (from
> openshot/openshot/windows/MainGTK.py):

I don't know what openshot is, but I don't think it is "official" in the 
sense of being in the Python standard library:

>>> import openshot
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named openshot


But even if it were, the standard library is not written by superhuman 
perfect gods, only by ordinary human beings who can make mistakes. 
Comparing against None with == is not idiomatic Python, and is usually a 
mistake. It rarely leads to obvious bugs, so it can survive in code 
without notice for a long time.


>> If your intention is to accept arbitrary objects which compare equal to
>> None, than by all means use == for your comparison. But normally the
>> intention is to accept None, and nothing else.
> 
> 
> So, for the same reason, wouldn't it be better to use "if spam is True"
> against to "if spam == True"  (or better "if spam") ?

No. Normally should just say "if spam" and allow Python to test the 
truthiness of spam.

"if spam == True" is worse, because there are many truthy objects which 
are not equal to True, e.g. 42, "norwegian blue", [1, 2, 3] are all 
truthy objects that (almost always) should be accepted but will wrongly 
be rejected.

"if spam is True" is even worse, because there are many truthy objects 
that are not the True singleton. Old code, especially if it was written 
before the introduction of bools in (I think) 2.1 or 2.2, often uses 1 as 
the standard true-like value. To save typing, many people will still pass 
1 or 0 as an argument when a bool is expected, which will then fail if 
you test for identity.

The exception is if for some reason you actually care whether your flag 
is the True object and absolutely nothing else. This violates Python's 
preference for duck-typing and support for truthiness, but if you have a 
good reason, go right ahead.

Suppose spam is already a bool. Then "if spam" is enough, since spam is a 
bool. "if spam is True" is no more necessary than 

    if spam is True is True
    if spam is True is True is True
    if spam is True is True is True is True 
    if spam is True is True is True is True is True
    if spam is True is True is True is True is True is True
    # I never know when to stop...

The right place to stop is not to start. "if spam is True" is redundant.

And lastly, testing for identity against None is guaranteed by the 
language: any implementation of Python must have None a singleton. But 
True and False are not such a strong promise. A future version of Python, 
or another implementation, might not bother to make True and False 
singletons. (Doubletons?) Unlikely, but why make assumptions that you 
don't need to?



-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Nov 26 22:14:36 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 19:14:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:49:20 AM UTC+8, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.3067.1322361... at python.org>,
>  Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> 
> > If you're using Python, you already have a "fast hash" library, in the 
> > dictionary class.  And yes, if a problem doesn't need the full 
> > generality of a database, you may be able to implement it with 
> > dictionaries, and it may even be practical to store those dictionaries 
> > to disk for later retrieval.  However, there are quite a few reasons 
> > this may not be good enough.  To start with just two:   if there are 
> > multiple users of the database, and they have to be synched.  Or if you 
> > have to be safe from a program or a system crashing.
> 
> This is a good point.  In general, databases differ from in-memory data 
> structures in that they provide:
> 
> 1) Persistence
> 
> 2) Data integrity
> 
> 3) Shared access

Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?

In python there are packages can solve these easily.  


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 22:24:09 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:24:09 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
	<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoMFKCEWCXQwTEP5gQDFFoG16RtDjLYqe+WADpACqernw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:14 PM, 88888 Dihedral
<dihedral88888 at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?
>

That question isn't inherent to databasiness; it might not even be
network-shared at all - in fact, most database-driven web sites have a
database that's accessible only from localhost (which is where the web
server runs). It's still shared access, and has all the same concerns.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Sat Nov 26 22:27:38 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:27:38 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>	<roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
	<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
Message-ID: <4ED1AE2A.50709@davea.name>

On 11/26/2011 10:14 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:49:20 AM UTC+8, Roy Smith wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>> This is a good point.  In general, databases differ from in-memory data
>> structures in that they provide:
>>
>> 1) Persistence
>>
>> 2) Data integrity
>>
>> 3) Shared access
> Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?
>
> In python there are packages can solve these easily.

Right, and they are not in-memory databases.

or to go back to the OP in this fork of the thread, they are not "fast 
hashes."

-- 

DaveA



From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 26 22:41:39 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:41:39 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
	<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
Message-ID: <roy-958233.22413826112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at pruu5>,
 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888 at googlemail.com> wrote:

> > In general, databases differ from in-memory data 
> > structures in that they provide:
> > 
> > 1) Persistence
> > 
> > 2) Data integrity
> > 
> > 3) Shared access
> 
> Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?

Well, like I said in my original post, "Different kinds of databases 
provide different amounts and flavors of these".  Sharing across a 
network is one type of shared access, but there are lots of things that 
don't do network access that I would still consider databases.


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 23:03:26 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:03:26 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1OU+Bf8oNrkq8_5vKJ09t1yPpPNKF0mqZ=bQKMTw0O2Gw@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
you're trying to avoid?

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
<dihedral88888 at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affdfs... at b.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > i'm developing a new program.
>> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
>> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
>> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
>> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
>> > db: that's the question
>> >
>> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
>> > sqlite at the beginning.
>> >
>> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>> >
>> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
>> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
>> > Thank you all
>> >
>> > MedeoTL
>> >
>> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
>> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
>>
>> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
>> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
>> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
>> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
>> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
>>
>> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>>
>> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
>> normalization.
>> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
>> the other good stuff.
>
> If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:29:52 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:29:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> you're trying to avoid?
> 
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> <dihedr... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affd... at b.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > i'm developing a new program.
> >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> >> > db: that's the question
> >> >
> >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> >> >
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >> >
> >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> >> > Thank you all
> >> >
> >> > MedeoTL
> >> >
> >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> >>
> >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> >>
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >>
> >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> >> normalization.
> >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> >> the other good stuff.
> >
> > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
  
Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
   
Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:29:52 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:29:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> you're trying to avoid?
> 
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> <dihedr... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affd... at b.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > i'm developing a new program.
> >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> >> > db: that's the question
> >> >
> >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> >> >
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >> >
> >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> >> > Thank you all
> >> >
> >> > MedeoTL
> >> >
> >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> >>
> >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> >>
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >>
> >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> >> normalization.
> >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> >> the other good stuff.
> >
> > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
  
Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
   
Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:49:14 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
Message-ID: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > you're trying to avoid?
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > <dihe... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > >> > Hi all,
> > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > >> > db: that's the question
> > >> >
> > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > >> >
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >> >
> > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > >> > Thank you all
> > >> >
> > >> > MedeoTL
> > >> >
> > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > >>
> > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > >>
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >>
> > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > >> normalization.
> > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > >> the other good stuff.
> > >
> > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
>   
> Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
>    
> Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base. I'll reserve 24 entries per row for book keeping. 
Thus the record can have 1000 entries maximum first. 
The number of record can be very large. 
Each value will be a string with type 1 byte  and the stored value 8 to 255 bytes represented as a string when fetching the value can be auto-transformed 
according to the type.  The sort and search will be rewritten for the comparison operator. 


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:49:14 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
Message-ID: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > you're trying to avoid?
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > <dihe... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > >> > Hi all,
> > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > >> > db: that's the question
> > >> >
> > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > >> >
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >> >
> > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > >> > Thank you all
> > >> >
> > >> > MedeoTL
> > >> >
> > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > >>
> > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > >>
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >>
> > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > >> normalization.
> > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > >> the other good stuff.
> > >
> > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
>   
> Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
>    
> Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base. I'll reserve 24 entries per row for book keeping. 
Thus the record can have 1000 entries maximum first. 
The number of record can be very large. 
Each value will be a string with type 1 byte  and the stored value 8 to 255 bytes represented as a string when fetching the value can be auto-transformed 
according to the type.  The sort and search will be rewritten for the comparison operator. 


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 07:54:24 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:54:24 +1100
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed. I recently gave Haskell a go, and it was remarkable how
similar the package management is to Python's.

How well does the new "packaging" (set for release in Python 3.3?)
module deal with the problems?

With a better package management system, the half of the standard
library that nobody uses can be unceremoniously dumped, and their more
recent upstream versions used correctly. Even distutils itself is
"obsolete", the first recommendation people give is to replace it with
distribute and/or pip.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:28 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 6:40?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>> it's an all-out disgrace.
>>
>> when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???
>>
>> and don't tell me to do it myself: it's clear that the sorry
>> situation we have now is precisely that too many programmers without
>> the requisite expertise or policy-making authority have decided to
>> pitch in. ?This is something for GvR and his top Python core library
>> team to do, because the problems are as much policy and institutional
>> ones as they are technical (programming) ones.
>
> I second this.
>
> The only thing I disagree about is that GvR is 'top' enough to handle
> this.
> For example on my debian box my python system is a mishmash of debian-
> apt-packages,
> eggs, and hand-installed stuff. ?[I believe I tried something like
> pypi and did not succeed -- dont exactly remember]
> So for systems like mine python and apt need to talk courteously to
> each other -- not possible for the likes of u&me; hard even for the
> likes of GvR.
>
> Frankly, this is not great but could be much worse. ?Some years ago
> when I worked with Ruby on Rails the rails that came from debian was
> an travesty. ?After some suffering I gathered that the optimal
> diplomacy was:
> - ruby from apt
> - gem hand installed
> - rails from gem
>
> While Ive never seen anything as ridiculous as the debian-rails in the
> python world, its still always a hobson choice: ?use a deb package
> that will cleanly install, deinstall, upgrade etc but is out of date
> or use a fresh and shiny egg that messes up the system.
>
> Haskell's cabal/hackage system is just as much a mess
> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/f3lh5/haskells_own_dll_hell/
>
> In short the mess arises from this that each of these languages comes
> up with its own package management system, neglecting the fact that
> the language invariably exists in a larger ecosystem
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 08:04:01 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:04:01 +1100
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqmudSR8Ea6QMYAvSDF+zAi2pwjtKNcFGcZzmzbnBA5bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqmudSR8Ea6QMYAvSDF+zAi2pwjtKNcFGcZzmzbnBA5bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1PtGX-oEAFT1G+T_0X7pg_Uuk-3zgA9TjkpxxkdhpQKsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:38 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:11 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rick!
>> Glad to see you back!
>> [Courts can be dull places without jesters ye-know!]
>
> So, what... you'd take someone to court for being funny? That sounds
> like the -other- Pythons.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Burn!! :D


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Sun Nov 27 09:33:22 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:33:22 +0100
Subject: why is bytearray treated so inefficiently by pickle?
Message-ID: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

Hi,

A bytearray is pickled (using max protocol) as follows:

>>> pickletools.dis(pickle.dumps(bytearray([255]*10),2))
    0: \x80 PROTO      2
    2: c    GLOBAL     '__builtin__ bytearray'
   25: q    BINPUT     0
   27: X    BINUNICODE u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff'
   52: q    BINPUT     1
   54: U    SHORT_BINSTRING 'latin-1'
   63: q    BINPUT     2
   65: \x86 TUPLE2
   66: q    BINPUT     3
   68: R    REDUCE
   69: q    BINPUT     4
   71: .    STOP

>>> bytearray("\xff"*10).__reduce__()
(<type 'bytearray'>, (u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff', 'latin-1'), None)


Is there a particular reason it is encoded so inefficiently? Most notably, the actual
*bytes* in the bytearray are represented by an UTF-8 string. This needs to be
transformed into a unicode string and then encoded back into bytes, when unpickled. The
thing being a bytearray, I would expect it to be pickled as such: a sequence of bytes.
And then possibly converted back to bytearray using the constructor that takes the bytes
directly (BINSTRING/BINBYTES pickle opcodes).

The above occurs both on Python 2.x and 3.x.

Any ideas? Candidate for a patch?


Irmen.



From delmarmcbride at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 09:57:10 2011
From: delmarmcbride at gmail.com (Horace Quinn)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:57:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Buy Google AdWords Vouchers & Coupons
Message-ID: <8e9c5394-68c9-449e-bbf5-4fdcfd5b3d39@f30g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

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Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:59:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Buy Google AdWords Vouchers & Coupons
Message-ID: <158025fc-151e-456f-81e8-abcdcf8c8210@s17g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

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From delmarmcbride at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 09:59:29 2011
From: delmarmcbride at gmail.com (Horace Quinn)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:59:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hii
Message-ID: <2d643f3a-ee29-4ced-9471-7d44b101ef35@n22g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 11:46:26 2011
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:46:26 +0100
Subject: [ANN]  Android Debug Bridge (ADB)  Scripting Language For Android
	(SL4A)  convenience library
Message-ID: <4ED26962.8070901@gmail.com>

hello,

The information on ADB / SL4A is quiet overwhelming.
Despite that, especially for people, not familiar with Linux, it's not an easy task to get their 
first program running.
This library allows you to easy upload and run Python files on a Android device, without pressing 
any button on the Android device.

After installing SL4A and Py4A on the Android device, and ADB on the hostmachine, it's just a matter 
of connecting the USB cable between Android device and host-PC, and run the program.

One of the simplest program that will run out of the box (without touching any button on the Android 
device) :

# *****************************************************
from adb_sl4a_support import ADB_Connection

ADB = ADB_Connection ()
print ADB

# Create a simple program
Simple_Program = """
import android
droid = android.Android (( '%s', %s ))
droid.makeToast ( "Wasn't that easy?")
""" % ( ADB.SL4A_Servers [-1][0], ADB.SL4A_Servers [-1][1] )

# execute the program (this will run the program from the host PC !!)
exec ( Simple_Program )
# *****************************************************

you can find the library here:
http://code.google.com/p/pylab-works/downloads/detail?name=adb_sl4a_support.py&can=2&q=

cheers,
Stef


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sun Nov 27 12:19:27 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:19:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: suitability of python
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jatreu$j3g$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-24, Rudra Banerjee <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?

You'll have to tell us what "these type of heavy computation" are
before we can answer.  There are a _lot_ of heavy-duty computational
libraries (many of them written in FORTAN) that have been interfaced
to Python (BLAS and so on).  If the heavy lifting can be done by those
libraries, Python might be very suitable.

You might want to check out scipy, Scientific Python, and the
Enthought python distro.

http://www.scipy.org/
http://dirac.cnrs-orleans.fr/plone/software/scientificpython/overview/
http://www.enthought.com/products/epd.php



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Nov 27 12:54:47 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:54:47 +0000
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jatth7$4ij$1@dough.gmane.org>

Rudra Banerjee, 24.11.2011 12:31:
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?

You already got a lot of answers that pointed you to the scientific 
computing tools that are available for Python. The reason why they exist is 
because (and nowadays also "why") Python is so extremely popular in that 
field: it's an easy to learn and use language and the standard 
implementation (often referred to as CPython) makes it really easy to 
interface with external code (C/C++/Fortran/etc.) in a very efficient way.

In addition to looking at NumPy/SciPy and/or Sage (depending on the kind of 
computations you are involved with), you should also look at fwrap and 
Cython. They will allow you to easily wrap your existing Fortran code for 
Python, and to quickly write very fast glue code for the two language 
environments. Thus, you can keep your existing code as it is, and use and 
control it from Python, using all the nice tools that Python provides for 
quickly writing anything from distributed code and test suites to graphical 
user interfaces for visualising your data. Since you specifically asked 
about plotting, don't miss out on matplotlib.

Stefan



From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 13:57:29 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:57:29 +0100
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
Message-ID: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hi,

I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.

These documents have a very limited number of different doc types / DTDs.

So what I would like to do is to build a small DTD cache and some code,
that would avoid searching the DTDs over and over from the net.

What would be the best way to do this?
I guess, that
the fields od en ElementTre, that I have to look at are
docinfo.public_id
docinfo.system_uri

There's also mentioning af a catalogue, but I don't know how to
use a catalog and how to know what is inside my catalogue
and what isn't.


Below a non working skeleto (first shot):
---------------------------------------------
Would this be the right way??

### ufnctions with '???' are not implemented / are the ones
### where I don't know whether they exist alreday.

import os
import urllib

from lxml import etree

cache_dir = os.path.join(os.environ['HOME'], ''.my_dtd_cache')

def get_from_cache(docinfo):
    """ the function which I'd like to implement most efficiently """
    fpi = docinfo.public_id
    uri = docinfo.system_uri
    dtd = ???get_from_dtd_cache(fpi, uri)
    if dtd is not None:
        return dtd
    # how can I check what is in my 'catalogue'
    if ???dtd_in_catalogue(??):
        return ???get_dtd_from_catalogue???
    dtd_rdr = urllib.urlopen(uri)
    dtd_filename = ???create_cache_filename(docinfo)
    (fname, _headers) = urllib.urlretrieve(uri, dtd_filename)
    return  etree.DTD(fname)


def check_doc_cached(filename):
    """ function, which should report errors
        if a doc doesn't validate.
    """
    doc = etree.parse(filename)
    dtd = get_from_cache(doc.docinfo)
    rslt = dtd.validate(doc)
    if not rlst:
        print "validate error:"
        print(dtd.error_log.filter_from_errors()[0])







From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov 27 15:29:13 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:29:13 -0500
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
References: <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
 
> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.

I'm sure you could roll your own validator with lxml and some DTDs, but 
you would probably save yourself a huge amount of effort by just using 
the validator the W3C provides (http://validator.w3.org/).


From gordon at panix.com  Sun Nov 27 16:33:44 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:33:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
References: <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jauabo$sbr$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011 at news.panix.com> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> In article <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list at python.org>,
>  Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
> > I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.

> I'm sure you could roll your own validator with lxml and some DTDs, but 
> you would probably save yourself a huge amount of effort by just using 
> the validator the W3C provides (http://validator.w3.org/).

With regards to XML, he may mean that he wants to validate that the
document conforms to a specific format, not just that it is generally
valid XML.  I don't think the w3 validator will do that.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Nov 27 16:46:13 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:46:13 +1100
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111127214613.GA11514@cskk.homeip.net>

On 27Nov2011 23:54, Matt Joiner <anacrolix at gmail.com> wrote:
| Agreed. I recently gave Haskell a go, and it was remarkable how
| similar the package management is to Python's.
| 
| How well does the new "packaging" (set for release in Python 3.3?)
| module deal with the problems?
| 
| With a better package management system, the half of the standard
| library that nobody uses can be unceremoniously dumped, and their more
| recent upstream versions used correctly. Even distutils itself is
| "obsolete", the first recommendation people give is to replace it with
| distribute and/or pip.

Ah the cheery optimism of the end user.
Package systems have a lot of fun complications.

Install for the user only? For the whole system?
Architecture specific?
What if people want access to different versions of a package?
What about vendor supplied (eg RPM) versus user obtained? They'll fight,
one way or another. What if policy has user supplied installing to its
own tree (sensible to avoid conflicts) - the fetch/install kit need to
know this.
What about stability? Your "half of the standard library that nobody uses can
be unceremoniously dumped, and their more recent upstream versions used
correctly" leads to bugs in the apps that use the packages if they depend on
particular versions/APIs. The stdlib is generally quite careful about
breaking APIs but other packagers often are less so.

I can make this list bigger or more detailed if you want.  All package
systems have these issues. They're not as trivial as you might imagine.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

The problem with elections is that the government always wins.
        - Chris Rudram <csr100 at unix.york.ac.uk>


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 17:21:01 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 1:53?pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 6:46?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello:
>
> > I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> > a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> > Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> > for code blocks,
>
> I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
> being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
> the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
> folly?
>
> And please, i love Python, but the language is a bit asymmetrical. Do
> try to bring some symmetry to this new language. You can learn a lot
> from GvR's triumphs, however, you can learn even more from his follys.

Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs
would go away and many implementations have done just that. I have
been seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of
spaces, such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or
even 8 spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).

I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint.
That can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down
and the size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
re-learning whenever you use a new module.

My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead
of creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.

[| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]

Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
for a special keyword. I also distinguish between initialization and
assignment via the let keyword. Also, non-locals do not need to be
defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more
"anal".

In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume
that any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told
in college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I
think the same thing could be said for a language. The only language
without flaws would be so small that it would be useless.

I love these types of discussions though, because it helps me to be
aware. When designing a language, it is extremely helpful to hear what
language features have led to problems. For instance, C#'s foreach
loops internally reuse a variable, which translates to something like
this:

using (IEnumerator<T> enumerator = enumerable.GetEnumerator())
{
    T current;
    while (enumerator.MoveNext())
    {
        current = enumerator.Current;
        // inner loop code goes here
    }
}

Since the same variable is reused, threads referencing the loop
variable work against whatever value is currently in the variable,
rather than the value when the thread was created. Most of the time,
this means every thread works against the same value, which isn't the
expected outcome. Moving the variable inside the loop _may_ help, but
it would probably be optimized back out of the loop by the compiler.
With the growth of threaded applications, these types of stack-based
optimizations may come to an end. That is why it is important for a
next-gen language to have a smarter stack - one that is context
sensitive. In Unit, the stack grows and shrinks like a dynamic array,
at each scope, rather than at the beginning and end of each function.
Sure, there's a slight cost in performance, but a boost in
consistency. If a programmer really wants the performance, they can
move the variable out of the loop themselves.

In fact, there are a lot of features in Unit that will come with
overhead, such as default arguments, non-locals, function-objects,
etc. However, the game plan is to avoid the overhead if it isn't used.
Some things, such as exception handling, will be hard to provide
without overhead. My belief is that, provided a tool, most developers
will use it and accept the slight runtime overhead.

I think everyone has an idea about what would make for the perfect
language. I am always willing to entertain ideas. I have pulled from
many sources: C#, Java, Python, JavaScript, F#, Lisp and more. The
hope is to provide as much expression with as much consistency as
possible. Just the other day I spent 2 hours trying to determine how
to create a null pointer (yeah, it took that long).

let pi = null as shared * Integer32 # null is always a pointer

Originally, I wanted 'as' to be a safe conversion. However, I decided
to make use of the 'try' keyword to mean a safe conversion.

let nd = try base as shared * Derived
let d = if nd.Succeeded: nd.Value else: null
# or, shorthand
let i = try Integer32.Parse("123") else 0

Of course, the last line could cost performance wise. For that reason,
Unit will allow for "try" versions of methods.

let Parse = public static method (value: String)
throws(FormatException UnderflowException OverflowException)
returns(Integer32): ...
and Parse = public static try method (value: String)
returns(TryResult<Integer32>): ...

Of course, such methods are required to never throw and must return a
specific named tuple type.

Type, type, type. In short, I can only hope my language is useful and
that I dodge as many inconsistencies as possible. The good thing about
an unknown language is that no one gets mad when things change. In
that sense, Python's annoyances are probably an indication of its
quality. :-)


From colinh at somewhere.invalid  Sun Nov 27 18:02:37 2011
From: colinh at somewhere.invalid (Colin Higwell)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:02:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jaufid$4fr$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:

> On Nov 26, 1:53?pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 6:46?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello:
>>
>> > I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
>> > a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
>> > Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
>> > for code blocks,
>>
>> I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
>> being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
>> the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
>> folly?
>>
>> And please, i love Python, but the language is a bit asymmetrical. Do
>> try to bring some symmetry to this new language. You can learn a lot
>> from GvR's triumphs, however, you can learn even more from his follys.
> 
> Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> go away and many implementations have done just that. I have been
> seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).
> 
> I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint. That
> can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down and the
> size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
> re-learning whenever you use a new module.
> 
> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
> 
> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
> 
> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> a special keyword. I also distinguish between initialization and
> assignment via the let keyword. Also, non-locals do not need to be
> defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more "anal".
> 
> In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume that
> any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told in
> college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I think the
> same thing could be said for a language. The only language without flaws
> would be so small that it would be useless.
> 
> I love these types of discussions though, because it helps me to be
> aware. When designing a language, it is extremely helpful to hear what
> language features have led to problems. For instance, C#'s foreach loops
> internally reuse a variable, which translates to something like this:
> 
> using (IEnumerator<T> enumerator = enumerable.GetEnumerator())
> {
>     T current;
>     while (enumerator.MoveNext())
>     {
>         current = enumerator.Current;
>         // inner loop code goes here
>     }
> }
> 
> Since the same variable is reused, threads referencing the loop variable
> work against whatever value is currently in the variable, rather than
> the value when the thread was created. Most of the time, this means
> every thread works against the same value, which isn't the expected
> outcome. Moving the variable inside the loop _may_ help, but it would
> probably be optimized back out of the loop by the compiler. With the
> growth of threaded applications, these types of stack-based
> optimizations may come to an end. That is why it is important for a
> next-gen language to have a smarter stack - one that is context
> sensitive. In Unit, the stack grows and shrinks like a dynamic array, at
> each scope, rather than at the beginning and end of each function. Sure,
> there's a slight cost in performance, but a boost in consistency. If a
> programmer really wants the performance, they can move the variable out
> of the loop themselves.
> 
> In fact, there are a lot of features in Unit that will come with
> overhead, such as default arguments, non-locals, function-objects, etc.
> However, the game plan is to avoid the overhead if it isn't used. Some
> things, such as exception handling, will be hard to provide without
> overhead. My belief is that, provided a tool, most developers will use
> it and accept the slight runtime overhead.
> 
> I think everyone has an idea about what would make for the perfect
> language. I am always willing to entertain ideas. I have pulled from
> many sources: C#, Java, Python, JavaScript, F#, Lisp and more. The hope
> is to provide as much expression with as much consistency as possible.
> Just the other day I spent 2 hours trying to determine how to create a
> null pointer (yeah, it took that long).
> 
> let pi = null as shared * Integer32 # null is always a pointer
> 
> Originally, I wanted 'as' to be a safe conversion. However, I decided to
> make use of the 'try' keyword to mean a safe conversion.
> 
> let nd = try base as shared * Derived let d = if nd.Succeeded: nd.Value
> else: null # or, shorthand let i = try Integer32.Parse("123") else 0
> 
> Of course, the last line could cost performance wise. For that reason,
> Unit will allow for "try" versions of methods.
> 
> let Parse = public static method (value: String) throws(FormatException
> UnderflowException OverflowException) returns(Integer32): ...
> and Parse = public static try method (value: String)
> returns(TryResult<Integer32>): ...
> 
> Of course, such methods are required to never throw and must return a
> specific named tuple type.
> 
> Type, type, type. In short, I can only hope my language is useful and
> that I dodge as many inconsistencies as possible. The good thing about
> an unknown language is that no one gets mad when things change. In that
> sense, Python's annoyances are probably an indication of its quality.
> :-)

Most of this is way above my head but FWIW, I am very happy with four 
spaces for indentation. I forget now what I used in BASIC and COBOL, but 
I have always used four spaces in PL/SQL, PL/pgSQL, PL/Tcl, c, ksh, bash 
and Python.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov 27 18:55:09 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Nov 2011 23:55:09 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:

> Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> go away and many implementations have done just that.

Tabs have every theoretical advantage and only one practical 
disadvantage: the common toolsets used by Unix programmers are crap in 
their handling of tabs, and instead of fixing the toolsets, they blame 
the tabs.

The use of spaces as indentation is a clear case of a technically worse 
solution winning over a better solution.


> I have been
> seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).

Why on earth should your language dictate the width of an indentation? I 
can understand that you might care that indents are consistent within a 
single source code unit (a file?), but anything more than that is just 
obnoxious.


> I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint. That
> can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down and the
> size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
> re-learning whenever you use a new module.

I know what disjoint means, but I don't understand what you think it 
means for a software library to be disjoint. I don't understand the rest 
of the paragraph.


> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
> 
> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]

Are we supposed to intuit what that means? 

Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ? 

Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over 
what looks like a float 0.10? 

What is "yield return"?


> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> a special keyword.

That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in 
Python, but Python requires a special keyword.


> I also distinguish between initialization and
> assignment via the let keyword.

What does this mean? I can guess, but I might guess wrong.


> Also, non-locals do not need to be
> defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more "anal".

What does this mean? I can't even guess what you consider more anal 
scoping rules.


> In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume that
> any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told in
> college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I think the
> same thing could be said for a language. The only language without flaws
> would be so small that it would be useless.

I'm pretty sure that being so small that it is useless would count as a 
flaw.

What does it mean to say that a language is "small"?

A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few 
instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell, 
branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed, 
anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine: a Turing Machine 
can do anything you can do in C, Lisp, Fortran, Python, Java... and very 
probably anything you can (mentally) do, full stop. So what does that 
mean about "small" languages?

On the other hand, take Epigram, a functional programming language:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_(programming_language)

It is *less* powerful than a Turing Machine, despite being far more 
complex. Similarly languages like regular expressions, finite automata 
and context-free grammers are more complex, "bigger", possibly with 
dozens or hundreds of instructions, and yet less powerful. Likewise for 
spreadsheets without cycles.

Forth is much smaller than Java, but I would say that Forth is much, much 
more powerful in some sense than Java. You could write a Java compiler in 
Forth more easily than you could write a Forth compiler in Java.



-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 19:26:17 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:26:17 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrGOXVnUhYZBGE0Mjjqa1VoZAD95kja49nv4D95TpzAOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> What does it mean to say that a language is "small"?
>
> A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few
> instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell,
> branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed,
> anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine...

Ook has only three tokens (okay, it's a derivative of BrainF** so it
kinda has eight, but they're implemented on three). It's
Turing-complete, but it is so small as to be useless for any practical
purposes. The ONLY way to use Ook for any useful code would be to
write an interpreter for another language in it, and use that other
language.

However, Ook can be proven to be flawless, as can an Ook interpreter,
much more easily than a full-featured language like Python or C.

ChrisA


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 19:32:33 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 01:32:33 +0100
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
In-Reply-To: <jauabo$sbr$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list@python.org>	<roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011@news.panix.com>
	<jauabo$sbr$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jaukr2$m7h$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/27/2011 10:33 PM, John Gordon wrote:
> In <roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011 at news.panix.com> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> 
>> In article <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list at python.org>,
>>  Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  
>>> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.
> 
>> I'm sure you could roll your own validator with lxml and some DTDs, but 
>> you would probably save yourself a huge amount of effort by just using 
>> the validator the W3C provides (http://validator.w3.org/).

This validator requires that I post the code to some host.
The contents that I'd like to verify is intranet contents, which I am
not allowed to post to an external site.
> 
> With regards to XML, he may mean that he wants to validate that the
> document conforms to a specific format, not just that it is generally
> valid XML.  I don't think the w3 validator will do that.
> 


Basically I want to integrate this into a django unit test.

I noticed, that some of of the templates generate documents with
mismatching DTD headers / contents.
All of the HTML code is parsable as xml (if it isn't it's a bug)

There are also some custom XML files, which have their specific DTDs

So I thought about validating some of the generated html with lxml.

the django test environment allows to run test clients, which are
supposedly much faster than a real http client.



From devplayer at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 20:20:13 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:20:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f240c085-d51f-4b72-8ee2-fed8df00a8fd@o1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 10:38?pm, goldtech <goldt... at worldpost.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?
>
> I don't need output of commands just what I typed it. I need it to
> save between sessions - something that no shell seems to do. If I
> reboot there will still be a command history somewhere.
>
> Like bash history in Linux.
>
> Thanks

Something that might be of interest is wxPython's pyslicesshell.py
it's not commandline in console window but the interpreter in a
window. And you can save it.

I haven't used it lately by there's also PythonWin
http://python.net/crew/skippy/win32/PythonwinPreview.html


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 27 21:09:47 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:09:47 -0500
Subject: why is bytearray treated so inefficiently by pickle?
In-Reply-To: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <jauqhb$k8p$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/27/2011 9:33 AM, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A bytearray is pickled (using max protocol) as follows:
>
>>>> pickletools.dis(pickle.dumps(bytearray([255]*10),2))
>      0: \x80 PROTO      2
>      2: c    GLOBAL     '__builtin__ bytearray'
>     25: q    BINPUT     0
>     27: X    BINUNICODE u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff'
>     52: q    BINPUT     1
>     54: U    SHORT_BINSTRING 'latin-1'
>     63: q    BINPUT     2
>     65: \x86 TUPLE2
>     66: q    BINPUT     3
>     68: R    REDUCE
>     69: q    BINPUT     4
>     71: .    STOP
>
>>>> bytearray("\xff"*10).__reduce__()
> (<type 'bytearray'>, (u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff', 'latin-1'), None)
>
>
> Is there a particular reason it is encoded so inefficiently? Most notably, the actual
> *bytes* in the bytearray are represented by an UTF-8 string. This needs to be
> transformed into a unicode string and then encoded back into bytes, when unpickled. The
> thing being a bytearray, I would expect it to be pickled as such: a sequence of bytes.
> And then possibly converted back to bytearray using the constructor that takes the bytes
> directly (BINSTRING/BINBYTES pickle opcodes).
>
> The above occurs both on Python 2.x and 3.x.
>
> Any ideas? Candidate for a patch?

Possibly. The two developers listed as particularly interested in pickle 
are 'alexandre.vassalotti,pitrou' (antoine), so if you do open a tracker 
issue, add them as nosy.

Take a look at http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3154/
by Antoine Pitrou or forwary your message to him.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From fpm at u.washington.edu  Sun Nov 27 23:16:43 2011
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (cassiope)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
Message-ID: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

I've been trying to migrate some code to using the standard python
logging classes/objects.  And they seem quite capable of doing what I
need them to do.  Unfortunately there's a problem in my unit tests.
It's fairly common to have to create quite a few entities in the
course of a series of tests.  What appears to be happening is that the
loggers don't get entirely eliminated, so that new invocations end up
spewing output messages from each of the loggers that were started
with this invocation of the python interpreter.

I haven't found a function within the logging module that completely
kills a given instance.  The removeHandler() function seems to leave a
stdout/stderr output even if all the assigned handlers have been
removed.  I've tried a few workarounds, such as increasing the level
to an absurdly large level, which mostly kinda works, and killing the
old entity before creating the new test version.

There is probably something simple that I'm missing.  If you know what
that is, please point me to that fine manual - I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!

    -f


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 23:25:16 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:25:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3079.1322430384.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <46c11371-411a-4ba0-89b9-967e2f83e942@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 2:46?am, Cameron Simpson <c... at zip.com.au> wrote:
> On 27Nov2011 23:54, Matt Joiner <anacro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> | Agreed. I recently gave Haskell a go, and it was remarkable how
> | similar the package management is to Python's.
> |
> | How well does the new "packaging" (set for release in Python 3.3?)
> | module deal with the problems?
> |
> | With a better package management system, the half of the standard
> | library that nobody uses can be unceremoniously dumped, and their more
> | recent upstream versions used correctly. Even distutils itself is
> | "obsolete", the first recommendation people give is to replace it with
> | distribute and/or pip.
>
> Ah the cheery optimism of the end user.
> Package systems have a lot of fun complications.
>
> Install for the user only? For the whole system?
> Architecture specific?
> What if people want access to different versions of a package?
> What about vendor supplied (eg RPM) versus user obtained? They'll fight,
> one way or another. What if policy has user supplied installing to its
> own tree (sensible to avoid conflicts) - the fetch/install kit need to
> know this.
> What about stability? Your "half of the standard library that nobody uses can
> be unceremoniously dumped, and their more recent upstream versions used
> correctly" leads to bugs in the apps that use the packages if they depend on
> particular versions/APIs. The stdlib is generally quite careful about
> breaking APIs but other packagers often are less so.
>
> I can make this list bigger or more detailed if you want. ?All package
> systems have these issues. They're not as trivial as you might imagine.

Where is there any implication that there are not issues or that they
are trivial?
At the end of his life Dijkstra said: The single biggest problem in
computer science is how not to make a mess of it; that problem remains
unsolved.

The OP simply expressed a wish for improvement and I seconded that
[and pls ignore ranters with oedipal problems]

>From my post from a few months http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2011-May/1271765.html

If I may restate:
Too much mindshare is devoted to all the linguistic features of
python: garbage collection, identation, metaclasses and all that other
good stuff from the 70s and too little to extra-linguistic ecosystem
features below:

If the linguistic features were all that mattered Lisp would be the
king of languages today


>
> >    | Area             | Tool(s)                |
> >    |------------------+------------------------|
> >    | packaging        | distutils, setuptools, |
> >    |                  | distutils2, distribute |
> >    |                  | Native tools (eg apt)  |
> >    | versioning       | hg, git, bzr           |
> >    | multiple pythons | virtualenv             |
> >    | ??               | tox                    |
> >    | testing          | unittest, nose, pytest |
> >    | build            | scons, make...         |
> >    | deployment       | fabric                 |
>


From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov 27 23:31:42 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:31:42 -0500
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3079.1322430384.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<46c11371-411a-4ba0-89b9-967e2f83e942@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F65D0D.23314227112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<46c11371-411a-4ba0-89b9-967e2f83e942 at k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
 rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> If the linguistic features were all that mattered Lisp would be the
> king of languages today

(that (is (one (of (the (most (absurd (statements (I've (read (in (a 
(long (time))))))))))))))


From Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com  Sun Nov 27 23:31:59 2011
From: Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com (Shambhu Rajak)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:31:59 +0000
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
In-Reply-To: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CA4BA@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Massi [mailto:massi_srb at msn.com] 
Sent: 25/11/2011 6:30 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Automatic import of submodules

Hi everyone,

in my project I have the following directory structure:

plugins
    |
    -- wav_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- WavPlug.py
    -- mp3_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- Mp3Plug.py
...
    -- etc_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- EtcPlug.py

Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
like that:

from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug

and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
how. Any hints?
Thanks in advance.


=====
What you could do is : 

Instead of importing method wise , import the module.

from plugins.wav_plug import WavPlug  

you can then use like this then
WavPlug.WavPlug

This will avoid the-every time importing of each method

Regards,
Shambhu




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 23:37:41 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:37:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> While Ive never seen anything as ridiculous as the debian-rails in the
> python world, its still always a hobson choice: ?use a deb package
> that will cleanly install, deinstall, upgrade etc but is out of date
> or use a fresh and shiny egg that messes up the system.

The only time I use the OS package manager to install a Python library
is if some other application requires it as a dependency.

If you're not making the distinction between your system install of
Python and your development install, you're really inviting a whole
world of pain and confusion on yourself.

With that approach in mind, I've never had any real issues using pip,
virtualenv etc for managing my development environment.



From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Nov 28 02:13:15 2011
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:13:15 +0000
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
In-Reply-To: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3348B.4020301@simplistix.co.uk>

On 28/11/2011 04:16, cassiope wrote:
> I've been trying to migrate some code to using the standard python
> logging classes/objects.  And they seem quite capable of doing what I
> need them to do.  Unfortunately there's a problem in my unit tests.
> It's fairly common to have to create quite a few entities in the
> course of a series of tests.  What appears to be happening is that the
> loggers don't get entirely eliminated, so that new invocations end up
> spewing output messages from each of the loggers that were started
> with this invocation of the python interpreter.

Two suggestions:

- unless you are specifically testing the logging set up of your 
application, your code under test shouldn't be setting up logging.

- if you want to check that your code under test is emitting log 
messages correctly, use a LogCapture from testfixtures:

http://packages.python.org/testfixtures.

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
             - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 02:18:15 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:18:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 9:37?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:

> With that approach in mind, I've never had any real issues using pip,
> virtualenv etc for managing my development environment.

Yes that is in a way my point also: we discuss (things like) pip,
virtualenv etc too little.

Try working out the ratio of the number of helps/tutorials on
functions/lists/types/classes to those on these extra-linguistic
features needed for environment/build/deployment/versioning and you
can see the skewness of focus


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov 28 02:38:12 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:38:12 +0000
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
In-Reply-To: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <javdp4$s7g$1@dough.gmane.org>

Gelonida N, 27.11.2011 18:57:
> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.
>
> These documents have a very limited number of different doc types / DTDs.
>
> So what I would like to do is to build a small DTD cache and some code,
> that would avoid searching the DTDs over and over from the net.
>
> What would be the best way to do this?

Configure your XML catalogues.


> I guess, that
> the fields od en ElementTre, that I have to look at are
> docinfo.public_id
> docinfo.system_uri

Yes, catalogue lookups generally happen through the public ID.


> There's also mentioning af a catalogue, but I don't know how to
> use a catalog and how to know what is inside my catalogue
> and what isn't.

Does this help?

http://lxml.de/resolvers.html#xml-catalogs

http://xmlsoft.org/catalog.html

They should normally come pre-configured on Linux distributions, but you 
may have to install additional packages with the respective DTDs. Look for 
any packages with "dtd" and "html" in their name, for example.

Stefan



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 28 03:51:06 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:51:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
	<15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
Message-ID: <18928439.420.1322470266331.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:49:14 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > > you're trying to avoid?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > > <dih... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi all,
> > > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > > >> > db: that's the question
> > > >> >
> > > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > > >> > Thank you all
> > > >> >
> > > >> > MedeoTL
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > > >>
> > > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > > >>
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >>
> > > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > > >> normalization.
> > > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > > >> the other good stuff.
> > > >
> > > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > 
> > A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
> >   
> > Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> > I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
> >    
> > Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
> Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
> Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base.

For the same value stored , I need a column_no+next stored, a list.   
 All relations can be derived.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 28 03:51:06 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:51:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
	<15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
Message-ID: <18928439.420.1322470266331.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:49:14 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > > you're trying to avoid?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > > <dih... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi all,
> > > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > > >> > db: that's the question
> > > >> >
> > > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > > >> > Thank you all
> > > >> >
> > > >> > MedeoTL
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > > >>
> > > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > > >>
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >>
> > > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > > >> normalization.
> > > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > > >> the other good stuff.
> > > >
> > > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > 
> > A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
> >   
> > Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> > I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
> >    
> > Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
> Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
> Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base.

For the same value stored , I need a column_no+next stored, a list.   
 All relations can be derived.


From ramapraba2653 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 05:05:01 2011
From: ramapraba2653 at gmail.com (SUPREME)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 02:05:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: XXX HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
Message-ID: <be21b051-326f-4fed-8819-63d91959abdb@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com>


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From gelonida at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 05:15:58 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:58 +0100
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
In-Reply-To: <javdp4$s7g$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org> <javdp4$s7g$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <javn0v$rhc$1@dough.gmane.org>

Thanks Stefan,


On 11/28/2011 08:38 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Gelonida N, 27.11.2011 18:57:
>> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.
>>
>> These documents have a very limited number of different doc types / DTDs.
>>
>> So what I would like to do is to build a small DTD cache and some code,
>> that would avoid searching the DTDs over and over from the net.
>>
>> What would be the best way to do this?
> 
> Configure your XML catalogues.
. . .
> 
> Yes, catalogue lookups generally happen through the public ID.
> 
> . . . 
> Does this help?
> 
> http://lxml.de/resolvers.html#xml-catalogs
> 
> http://xmlsoft.org/catalog.html

These links look perfect.
> 
> They should normally come pre-configured on Linux distributions, but you
> may have to install additional packages with the respective DTDs. Look
> for any packages with "dtd" and "html" in their name, for example.
> 
Thanks once more.
Indeed the package w3c-dtd-xhtml wasn't installed on my Ubuntu host.

I'll check this lateron today.
(Just have to remove my own hackish cashing solution, which downloads if
not found in a cash dir)





From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 06:42:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 11:42:30 GMT
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:18:15 -0800, rusi wrote:

> On Nov 28, 9:37?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> With that approach in mind, I've never had any real issues using pip,
>> virtualenv etc for managing my development environment.
> 
> Yes that is in a way my point also: we discuss (things like) pip,
> virtualenv etc too little.

I don't know about that. I think we discuss things like pip, etc. exactly 
the right amount.


> Try working out the ratio of the number of helps/tutorials on
> functions/lists/types/classes to those on these extra-linguistic
> features needed for environment/build/deployment/versioning and you can
> see the skewness of focus

We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the 
problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL 
problems that they have experienced and asking about. If there are 10 or 
100 times more answers about (say) classes than about (say) pip, that is 
because there are 10 or 100 times as many questions about classes.

Maybe that's because pip users are cleverer, more experienced and don't 
have problems; maybe it's because only 1 in 100 people go on to use pip. 
Maybe it's because pip is a heap of trash that nobody touches; or perhaps 
it is so fantastic that nobody has any problems with it. Whatever the 
reason, there's no great big queue of unanswered questions about pip that 
I can see. Hence, ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing 
things about as much as we ought to.

(I don't mean to single out pip, it is just an example.)


-- 
Steven


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 06:45:57 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:45:57 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
Message-ID: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com>

I'm happily using the ast module to analyze some code,
but my scripts need also to run unfortunately on python 2.5

The _ast was there already, but the ast helpers not yet.
Is it ok if I just copy over the source from the ast helpers in my code base
or is there a smarter way?
(I don't even need all of them, just "parse" and NodeVisitor at the moment)


From jayronsoares at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 06:54:18 2011
From: jayronsoares at gmail.com (Jayron Soares)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:54:18 -0200
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
Message-ID: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys!

I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:

http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325

I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
    g, e = ministro_lei()
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in ministro_lei
    resp = Q.fetchall()
AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'

Please any help ?

cheers


-- 
*" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*

http://bucolick.tumblr.com
http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
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From felipe.vinturini at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 07:06:30 2011
From: felipe.vinturini at gmail.com (Felipe Vinturini)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:06:30 -0200
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jayron,

Instead of using "Q" to loop over the result, use: "dbcursor".

resp = dbcursor.fetchall()

I hope it helps.

Regards,
Felipe.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Jayron Soares <jayronsoares at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi guys!
>
> I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:
>
> http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325
>
> I get this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
>     g, e = ministro_lei()
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in ministro_lei
>     resp = Q.fetchall()
> AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'
>
> Please any help ?
>
> cheers
>
>
> --
> *" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*
>
> http://bucolick.tumblr.com
> http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 07:11:15 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 12:11:15 GMT
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to
	XML)
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <4ed37a63$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:01 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
> 
> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8',
> errors='replace') big_json = json.load(input_source)
> input_source.close()
> 
> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance of
> xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to rewrite
> dict keys as valid element names if necessary), 

How are you doing that? What do you consider valid?


> and I save the document:
> 
> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8',
> errors='replace') doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
> xml_file.close()
> 
> 
> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
> gives some errors like these on a few documents:

It will force the output to be valid UTF-8 encoded to bytes, not 
necessarily valid XML.


> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
> PCDATA invalid Char value 31

What's xmlstarlet, and at what point does it give this error? It doesn't 
appear to be in the standard library.



> I guess I need to process each piece of PCDATA to clean out the control
> characters before creating the text node:
> 
>   text = doc.createTextNode(j)
>   root.appendChild(text)
> 
> What's the best way to do that, bearing in mind that there can be
> multibyte characters in the strings?

Are you mixing unicode and byte strings?

Are you sure that the input source is actually UTF-8? If not, then all 
bets are off: even if the decoding step works, and returns a string, it 
may contain the wrong characters. This might explain why you are getting 
unexpected control characters in the output: they've come from a badly 
decoded input.

Another possibility is that your data actually does contain control 
characters where there shouldn't be any.


-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Nov 28 07:12:06 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:12:06 -0600
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
Message-ID: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com>

Are there best-practices for creating wizards or asking various 
questions (whether yes/no or text/numeric entry) in a cmd.Cmd 
class?  Something like the imaginary confirm() and get_string() 
methods here:

   class MyCmd(cmd.Cmd):
     def do_name(self,line):
       s = get_string(prompt=line, default="Whatever")
       ...
     def do_save(self,line):
       if os.path.isfile(line):
         if not confirm("%r exists. Continue?", True): return
       self.save(line)
     def save(self, filename):
       ...

I can monkey with printing messages and using raw_input(), but 
I'd like to know if there's a better way (such as something 
interacting with readline for 
text-entry-with-history-and-completion, or raw-character input 
for Y/N answers rather than the need to hit <enter>, making it 
feel more uniform),

Thanks,

-tkc




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 07:27:50 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:27:50 +0000
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <javuo7$lq0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/28/11 12:12 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> Are there best-practices for creating wizards or asking various questions
> (whether yes/no or text/numeric entry) in a cmd.Cmd class? Something like the
> imaginary confirm() and get_string() methods here:
>
> class MyCmd(cmd.Cmd):
> def do_name(self,line):
> s = get_string(prompt=line, default="Whatever")
> ...
> def do_save(self,line):
> if os.path.isfile(line):
> if not confirm("%r exists. Continue?", True): return
> self.save(line)
> def save(self, filename):
> ...
>
> I can monkey with printing messages and using raw_input(), but I'd like to know
> if there's a better way (such as something interacting with readline for
> text-entry-with-history-and-completion,

If you import readline, then any following uses of raw_input() will 
automatically use readline. You may want to swap out the history when you use 
get_string() or confirm() so they don't mess up the regular Cmd history, but the 
basic functionality should work out-of-box.

> or raw-character input for Y/N answers
> rather than the need to hit <enter>, making it feel more uniform),

I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for Y/N answers, too. 
It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some questions requiring an enter and 
some not. It can be unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jayronsoares at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 07:45:53 2011
From: jayronsoares at gmail.com (Jayron Soares)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:45:53 -0200
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Felipe,

I did, however I got this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 48, in <module>
    g, e = ministro_lei()
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 34, in ministro_lei
    for i in G.degree():
TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable

I could not understood what's going on, I've tried so many different
approaches to solve this problem, but unfortunately no success.

Cheers



2011/11/28 Felipe Vinturini <felipe.vinturini at gmail.com>

> Hi Jayron,
>
> Instead of using "Q" to loop over the result, use: "dbcursor".
>
> resp = dbcursor.fetchall()
>
> I hope it helps.
>
> Regards,
> Felipe.
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Jayron Soares <jayronsoares at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi guys!
>>
>> I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:
>>
>> http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325
>>
>> I get this error:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
>>     g, e = ministro_lei()
>>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in ministro_lei
>>     resp = Q.fetchall()
>> AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'
>>
>> Please any help ?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>> --
>> *" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*
>>
>> http://bucolick.tumblr.com
>> http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>


-- 
*" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*

http://bucolick.tumblr.com
http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 07:57:16 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:57:16 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ED3852C.6090102@sequans.com>

candide wrote:
> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function 
> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in 
> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.
>
> Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is() 
> function is mainly used in the following set form :
>
> spam is None
>
> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?
>
>
>
> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) 
> adresses of objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low 
> level feature performed by low level langages such as C but seldom 
> needed in high level languages like Python, isn'it ?
I remember meeting a use case where testing identity is required, when 
you are searching for an instance containing a specific object:

class Someone:
    def __init__(self, name, car):
        self.name = name
        self.car = car

class Car:
    def __init__(self, brand):
        self.brand = brand
    def __eq__(self, other):
        return self.brand == other.brand

people = { 'bob':Someone('bob', Car('chrys')), 'cindy': Someone('cindy', 
Car('Volk')), 'carlos':Someone('carlos', Car('Volk'))}
aCar = people['carlos'].car
print "people owning a Volk car", [ people[ppl].name for ppl in people 
if people[ppl].car == Car('Volk')]
print "people owning Carlos's car", [ people[ppl].name for ppl in people 
if people[ppl].car is aCar]

people owning a Volk car ['carlos', 'cindy']
people owning Carlos's car ['carlos']

JM


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 08:14:27 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 4:42 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the
> problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL
> problems that they have experienced and asking about.

> ... ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing
> things about as much as we ought to.

How about applying these claims to the OP?




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 08:20:44 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:20:44 +0100
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED38AAC.3090103@sequans.com>

Jayron Soares wrote:
> Hi Felipe,
>
> I did, however I got this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 48, in <module>
>     g, e = ministro_lei()
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 34, in ministro_lei
>     for i in G.degree():
> TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable
>
> I could not understood what's going on, I've tried so many different 
> approaches to solve this problem, but unfortunately no success.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>  
> 2011/11/28 Felipe Vinturini <felipe.vinturini at gmail.com 
> <mailto:felipe.vinturini at gmail.com>>
>
>     Hi Jayron,
>
>     Instead of using "Q" to loop over the result, use: "dbcursor".
>
>     resp = dbcursor.fetchall()
>
>     I hope it helps.
>
>     Regards,
>     Felipe.
>
>     On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Jayron Soares
>     <jayronsoares at gmail.com <mailto:jayronsoares at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hi guys!
>
>         I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:
>
>         http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325
>
>         I get this error:
>
>         Traceback (most recent call last):
>           File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
>             g, e = ministro_lei()
>           File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in
>         ministro_lei
>             resp = Q.fetchall()
>         AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'
>
>         Please any help ?
>
>         cheers
>

Hello,

You are iterating on G.degree(), which is fine when it is a dictionary. 
However regarding DiGraph documentation:
"Returns :   
nd : dictionary, or number
A dictionary with nodes as keys and degree as values or a number if a 
single node is specified."

So you may get an integer and thus cannot iterate on it.

You could use
if type(G.degree()) is int:
    lista.append(G.degree())
else:
    for i in G.degree().values():
       lista.append(i)

I'm quite surprised that a distributed graph API uses such inconsistent 
interface. I guess you'll have to live with it.

JM


PS : Try to code & document in English, it's much better especially when 
asking for help on this list, mixing spanish and english has few 
benefits since you may bother both spanish and english ppl :o)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 08:47:51 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:47:51 +0100
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
In-Reply-To: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED39107.20109@sequans.com>

cassiope wrote:
> I've been trying to migrate some code to using the standard python
> logging classes/objects.  And they seem quite capable of doing what I
> need them to do.  Unfortunately there's a problem in my unit tests.
> It's fairly common to have to create quite a few entities in the
> course of a series of tests.  What appears to be happening is that the
> loggers don't get entirely eliminated, so that new invocations end up
> spewing output messages from each of the loggers that were started
> with this invocation of the python interpreter.
>
> I haven't found a function within the logging module that completely
> kills a given instance.  The removeHandler() function seems to leave a
> stdout/stderr output even if all the assigned handlers have been
> removed.  I've tried a few workarounds, such as increasing the level
> to an absurdly large level, which mostly kinda works, and killing the
> old entity before creating the new test version.
>
> There is probably something simple that I'm missing.  If you know what
> that is, please point me to that fine manual - I'd appreciate it.
> Thanks!
>
>     -f
>   
Loggers are static objects managed by the module itself. When you create 
one, it won't be removed until you leave the shell. Thas is way it is 
advise not to create thousands of loggers with different names.
That's the module design, nothing you can do about it.

It takes a little time to get used to it but the logging documentation 
has a lot of examples showing how to use to module.
Your main problem is that some of your test instances are configuring 
the loggers, they should not. Configuration should be done in the 'main' 
function *only*.

import logging, sys

class Test1:
    def __init__(self):
        self.logger = logging.getLogger(self.__class__.__name__) # 
create a new logger or reuse one if a logger with that name already exists
        self.logger.info('I am created')
        # adding a handler to the logger here would be a mistake, 
configuration is let to the user, in this case the program main entry point
        # objects raising log events should not care about how they are 
formated/displayed
class Test2:
    def __init__(self):
        self.logger = logging.getLogger(self.__class__.__name__)
        self.logger.info('I am created')

def main():
    # configure here the logger, usually the root logger
    root = logging.getLogger()
    root.handlers = [] # required if you don't want to exit the shell 
between 2 executions (not very wise)
    root.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    root.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler(sys.stdout))
    root.handlers[-1].setFormatter(logging.Formatter('%(name)s - 
%(levelname)s - %(message)s'))

    t1 = Test1()
    t2 = Test2()
    t3 = Test2()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

 > run test.py
Test1 - INFO - I am created
Test2 - INFO - I am created
Test2 - INFO - I am created


JM

PS : one way to cleanup a logger is to remove all its handlers, i.e. 
logger.handlers = [], but if you need to do this you may have done 
something wrong.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 09:04:26 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 14:04:26 GMT
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed394e9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:14:27 -0800, rusi wrote:

> On Nov 28, 4:42 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the
>> problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL
>> problems that they have experienced and asking about.
> 
>> ... ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing things about as
>> much as we ought to.
> 
> How about applying these claims to the OP?

The OP ranted that the existing packaging systems are an "all-out 
disgrace" (his words), without giving even a single example of a concrete 
problem, and unilaterally declared that this needs the personal attention 
of Guido van Rossum. There's a word for posts like that one: starts with 
T, ends in ROLL.

Presumably the OP believes that not only should he not have to solve his 
own problems with existing packaging systems, but he should not have to 
even describe those supposed problems.

The OP's only question was "when is python going to get a decent module 
distribution system???", to which the right answer is presumably "about a 
decade ago".

Decent does not necessarily mean perfect. If the OP decides to ask a 
sensible question about an actual problem, I'm sure he'll get a sensible 
answer. Perhaps not the answer he is hoping for, but an an answer.


-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 09:18:54 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:18:54 +0100
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <4ED38AAC.3090103@sequans.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ED38AAC.3090103@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3984E.700@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
> PS : Try to code & document in English, it's much better especially 
> when asking for help on this list, mixing spanish and english has few 
> benefits since you may bother both spanish and english ppl :o)
Actually it is english mixed with portuguese, sorry if I offended anyone 
:o( .

JM


From andreas.perstinger at gmx.net  Mon Nov 28 09:23:23 2011
From: andreas.perstinger at gmx.net (Andreas Perstinger)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:23:23 +0100
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>	<4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3995B.9040308@gmx.net>

On 2011-11-28 14:14, rusi wrote:
> On Nov 28, 4:42 pm, Steven D'Aprano<steve
> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>>  We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the
>>  problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL
>>  problems that they have experienced and asking about.
>
>>  ... ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing
>>  things about as much as we ought to.
>
> How about applying these claims to the OP?
>

OP asked only one question (the rest was just ranting) and Steven 
answered it (IMHO in the right manner).

OP never mentioned specific problems or what's wrong with any of the 
distribution systems. So what answers are you expecting from such a post?

Bye, Andreas




From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 28 09:56:53 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:56:53 -0500
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3096.1322488085.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-6BA999.09565228112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3096.1322488085.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Loggers are static objects managed by the module itself.

For reasons I can't quite explain, that sentence makes me want to sing 
The Lumberjack Song.  "I'm a logger(*) and I'm OK..."

(*) Yes, I know that's not right.


From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 10:36:17 2011
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:36:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
Message-ID: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>

Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
fname1
fname2
fname3 and so on.

I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a generator is called for.

def fname_gen(stem):
    i = 0
    while True:
        i = i+1
        yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)

blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
boo = fname_gen('boo')

n = 3
for w in range(0,n):
    in_name = blarg.next()
    out_name = boo.next()


This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when you don't know 'n' until run-time?
thanks,
--Tim


From fpm at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 28 11:27:07 2011
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (cassiope)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:27:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3096.1322488085.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11b21871-0bf2-4957-a0a3-65d3c039632d@u1g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Chris and JM, I will explore how much work it's going to take
to change the various scripts to _always_ starting the logger from
main().
As further explanation - this code predates the logging module, and
many of the functions/classes had an optional argument for the home-
made
logger - and where the caller didn't provide it, it was locally
created.
The unit tests were carefully enough put together to provide almost
complete coverage, resulting in creating the logger possibly a dozen
or more times in the course of the tests.

So I appreciate what "doing it the right way" means, I was just hoping
not to have to go there, as I have a lot of code that uses the old
structures.  It makes it harder to justify moving to the "newer"
module.

I'll have to try the logger.handlers=[] approach, thanks.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 11:44:40 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 16:44:40 GMT
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
Message-ID: <4ed3ba77$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:36:17 -0800, Tim wrote:

> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
> fname1
> fname2
> fname3 and so on.
> 
> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a generator is
> called for.
> 
> def fname_gen(stem):
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i = i+1
>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
> 
> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
> boo = fname_gen('boo')
> 
> n = 3
> for w in range(0,n):
>     in_name = blarg.next()
>     out_name = boo.next()
> 
> 
> This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when you
> don't know 'n' until run-time? thanks,

Looks perfectly fine to me. In Python 2.6 onwards, I'd write next(blarg) 
rather than blarg.next(), and similarly for boo. In Python 3.x, you have 
to use next(blarg).

If I were to nit-pick, I'd write the last part as:

for _ in range(3):
    in_name = blarg.next()
    out_name = boo.next()

where _ is the traditional "don't care" name in Python.



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 28 11:54:48 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:54:48 +0100
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
Message-ID: <jb0ecp$krh$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tim wrote:

> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
> fname1
> fname2
> fname3 and so on.
> 
> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a generator is
> called for.
> 
> def fname_gen(stem):
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i = i+1
>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
> 
> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
> boo = fname_gen('boo')
> 
> n = 3
> for w in range(0,n):
>     in_name = blarg.next()
>     out_name = boo.next()
> 
> 
> This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when you
> don't know 'n' until run-time? thanks,

As a fan of the itertools module I would spell it (untested)

from itertools import count, islice, izip

def fname_gen(stem):
    return ("%s%d" % (stem, i) for i in count(1))
# ...
for in_name, out_name in islice(izip(blarg, boo), n):
   #...

but your way is perfectly OK.



From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 28 12:04:25 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 17:04:25 GMT
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
	<4ed3ba77$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <9jht8pFrs3U1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-28, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:36:17 -0800, Tim wrote:
>> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
>> fname1
>> fname2
>> fname3 and so on.
>> 
>> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a
>> generator is called for.
>> 
>> def fname_gen(stem):
>>     i = 0
>>     while True:
>>         i = i+1
>>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
>> 
>> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
>> boo = fname_gen('boo')

I don't see anything wrong with that. I've written similar code
in terms of itertools.count, myself. If I may make a suggestion,
it would be nice to zero-pad the number to achieve
lexicographical ordering of filenames. However, if you really
have no idea of the magnitude you might need that won't work. The
following assumes you'll need less than 1000.

counter = itertools.count()
...
with open("%03d" % counter.next(), "w") as the_next_file:
  ...

My Python < 3.0 is rusty, so sorry if I messed that up.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 12:21:37 2011
From: !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com (Eduardo Alvarez)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:21:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
Message-ID: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>

Hello, everyone,

I'm in the process of learning how to use the mailbox module with python
3.2. I've noticed the following seemingly inconsistent behavior:

if I call a Maildir object directly, the module works perfectly. I can,
for example, call

mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir").items()

and get the expected list of (key,Message) pairs.

however, if I do the following:

b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
b.items()

I get an empty list. 

I don't understand why this is so, specially since the last example in
the documentation shows a reference to a Maildir object being created.
Why does this happen?

yours,

--
Eduardo Alvarez


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 12:29:45 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:29:45 +1100
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
In-Reply-To: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
References: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqG21pfTSLPLj+2pt6mKyEwZ3jii3pTpPdBKqFadX2ojw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 4:21 AM, Eduardo Alvarez
<!nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com> wrote:
> if I call a Maildir object directly, the module works perfectly. I can,
> for example, call
>
> mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir").items()
>
> and get the expected list of (key,Message) pairs.
>
> however, if I do the following:
>
> b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
> b.items()
>
> I get an empty list.

They ought to be equivalent. Can you post your whole code? Maybe
there's some other difference.

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 28 12:50:17 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:50:17 +0100
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
References: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
Message-ID: <jb0hkn$c6g$1@dough.gmane.org>

Eduardo Alvarez wrote:

> however, if I do the following:
> 
> b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
> b.items()
> 
> I get an empty list.
> 
> I don't understand why this is so, specially since the last example in
> the documentation shows a reference to a Maildir object being created.
> Why does this happen?

Could this be

http://bugs.python.org/issue13254

?



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Nov 28 12:58:50 2011
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:58:50 -0500
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
Message-ID: <jb0i4o$a3r$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Tim wrote:

> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like 
this:
> fname1
> fname2
> fname3 and so on.
> 
> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a 
generator is
> called for.
> 
> def fname_gen(stem):
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i = i+1
>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
> 
> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
> boo = fname_gen('boo')
> 
> n = 3
> for w in range(0,n):
>     in_name = blarg.next()
>     out_name = boo.next()
> 
> 
> This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when 
you
> don't know 'n' until run-time? thanks,

It's kind of overkill in the toy demo example, but if the main loop is 
a little more abstract, e.g.

for task in task_supplier():
    in_name = blarg.next()
    out_name = boo.next()
    handle_task (task, in_name, out_name)

then it's obviously a good thing.

One quibble (that Peter Otten also suggested): if your business rules 
expect that files blarg25 and boo25 (for example) work together, then 
you'd be better off generating them together as a pair in a single 
generator call.  As it is, there's a chance of the blarg and boo 
generators getting out of step and supplying mismatched names.

	Mel.



From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 13:03:38 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:03:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <61aacaf4-4953-4e6d-8f5e-2c999a9e2b63@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 27, 6:55?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:
> > Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> > out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> > go away and many implementations have done just that.
>
> Tabs have every theoretical advantage and only one practical
> disadvantage: the common toolsets used by Unix programmers are crap in
> their handling of tabs, and instead of fixing the toolsets, they blame
> the tabs.
>
> The use of spaces as indentation is a clear case of a technically worse
> solution winning over a better solution.
>
> > I have been
> > seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> > such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> > spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).
>
> Why on earth should your language dictate the width of an indentation? I
> can understand that you might care that indents are consistent within a
> single source code unit (a file?), but anything more than that is just
> obnoxious.
>
> > I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint. That
> > can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down and the
> > size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
> > re-learning whenever you use a new module.
>
> I know what disjoint means, but I don't understand what you think it
> means for a software library to be disjoint. I don't understand the rest
> of the paragraph.
>
> > My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> > creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
>
> > [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
>
> Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
>
> Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
>
> Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> what looks like a float 0.10?
>
> What is "yield return"?
>
> > Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> > a special keyword.
>
> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> > I also distinguish between initialization and
> > assignment via the let keyword.
>
> What does this mean? I can guess, but I might guess wrong.
>
> > Also, non-locals do not need to be
> > defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more "anal".
>
> What does this mean? I can't even guess what you consider more anal
> scoping rules.
>
> > In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume that
> > any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told in
> > college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I think the
> > same thing could be said for a language. The only language without flaws
> > would be so small that it would be useless.
>
> I'm pretty sure that being so small that it is useless would count as a
> flaw.
>
> What does it mean to say that a language is "small"?
>
> A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few
> instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell,
> branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed,
> anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine: a Turing Machine
> can do anything you can do in C, Lisp, Fortran, Python, Java... and very
> probably anything you can (mentally) do, full stop. So what does that
> mean about "small" languages?
>
> On the other hand, take Epigram, a functional programming language:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_(programming_language)
>
> It is *less* powerful than a Turing Machine, despite being far more
> complex. Similarly languages like regular expressions, finite automata
> and context-free grammers are more complex, "bigger", possibly with
> dozens or hundreds of instructions, and yet less powerful. Likewise for
> spreadsheets without cycles.
>
> Forth is much smaller than Java, but I would say that Forth is much, much
> more powerful in some sense than Java. You could write a Java compiler in
> Forth more easily than you could write a Forth compiler in Java.
>
> --
> Steven
>
>

Yes. I was mostly rambling. More explanation would have meant more
typing.

Languages that use type inference heavily typically find unique ways
of indicating literals, including numbers and collections. In Unit,
[||] indicates fixed length arrays, [] is for dynamic arrays, {} is
for sets and unordered dictionaries (at least one value is needed). A
frozen set might be represented with a {||} in the future. I stole the
syntax from F#. Numbers have a trailing letter indicating their types:
signed byte (y), short (s), long (l), float (f), fixed (m), arbitrary
precision (i), rational (r) and imaginary (j). Unsigned versions have
a u before the letter (uy).

Also, .. is the range operator in Unit. 0..10 means "0 through 10" and
0.1 means a floating point number (I missed a dot). 0..10..2 means 0,
2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Saves me from needing a range function, like Python.
Quite a few functional languages support that syntax.


From !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 13:10:47 2011
From: !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com (Eduardo Alvarez)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:10:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
References: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
	<mailman.3101.1322502631.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnjd7j27.7q9.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>

On 2011-11-28, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Eduardo Alvarez wrote:
>
>> however, if I do the following:
>> 
>> b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
>> b.items()
>> 
>> I get an empty list.
>> 
>> I don't understand why this is so, specially since the last example in
>> the documentation shows a reference to a Maildir object being created.
>> Why does this happen?
>
> Could this be
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue13254
>
> ?

Peter and Chris,

This is exactly it. I guess the version in my linux distribution is not
patched. I'll let the maintainer know, thank you!

Yours,

--
Eduardo Alvarez


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov 28 13:20:40 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:20:40 +0100
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON
	to XML)
In-Reply-To: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <jb0jdo$ssa$1@dough.gmane.org>

Adam Funk, 25.11.2011 14:50:
> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
>
> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')

It doesn't make sense to use codecs.open() with a "b" mode.


> big_json = json.load(input_source)

You shouldn't decode the input before passing it into json.load(), just 
open the file in binary mode. Serialised JSON is defined as being UTF-8 
encoded (or BOM-prefixed), not decoded Unicode.


> input_source.close()

In case of a failure, the file will not be closed safely. All in all, use 
this instead:

     with open(input_file, 'rb') as f:
         big_json = json.load(f)


> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
> of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
> rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary)

If the name "big_json" is supposed to hint at a large set of data, you may 
want to use something other than minidom. Take a look at the 
xml.etree.cElementTree module instead, which is substantially more memory 
efficient.


> and I save the document:
>
> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
> doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
> xml_file.close()

Same mistakes as above. Especially the double encoding is both unnecessary 
and likely to fail. This is also most likely the source of your problems.


> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>
> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
> PCDATA invalid Char value 31

This strongly hints at a broken encoding, which can easily be triggered by 
your erroneous encode-and-encode cycles above.

Also, the kind of problem you present here makes it pretty clear that you 
are using Python 2.x. In Python 3, you'd get the appropriate exceptions 
when trying to write binary data to a Unicode file.

Stefan



From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:20:22 2011
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
In-Reply-To: <jb0i4o$a3r$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
	<jb0i4o$a3r$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <6572253.26.1322508022441.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqf20>

thanks everyone. I thought blarg.next() looked a little strange--I'm just learning generators now and I'm glad too see that next(blarg) is the way to go.

The example really was just a toy or I would use an iterator. I do need the two (well, the several) generators to not be coupled together so they increment independently. I'll keep the zero-padding advice in mind--I didn't think of that one.

what a great group this is. 
thanks again!
--Tim


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:22:09 2011
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:22:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 3:01?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100, candide wrote:
>>SNIP<<
>
> That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing
> for None, use of `is` should be rare.
>
> --
> Steven

With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
construct should be rare.  All constructs should be used
*appropriately*.

While in general a particular use of a Python construct may be rare,
if the programmer is involved deeply with that rare use, then it is
NOT rare to him/her.  Thus, for a particular programmer, use of 'is'
may be quite frequent because the program they're working on requires
knowledge of object identity.

The same goes for global variables, by the way.  While it's easy to
shoot yourself in the foot with global variables, that doesn't lead to
never-use-them.  It leads to use-them-appropriately-and-carefully.

Sorry, you plucked a string of mine.  One does not throw a tool out of
your tool box because it might be dangerous.  Table saws are
incredibly dangerous, but in the hands of a skilled operator can be
competently and safely used to produce beautiful woodwork.  To say
*never* use a table saw because it's dangerous is silly.

Language constructs are put there intentionally.  Advice that they be
used *rarely* or *never* should *never* be given ((chuckle)).  Just
learn what they are, learn how they work, learn what the consequences
of misuse can be (loss of a hand, in the case of a table saw), and use
them confidently when the circumstances make them the best choice of
tool to solve your problem.

To make a long comment short (too late!!) learn the differences
between 'is' and ==, and use them appropriately.  When I was learning
Python, I found the two books by Mark Lutz to be filled with
information of such things as these.

D


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:24:10 2011
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Return of an old friend
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3033.1322216028.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d9b87a90-76f9-43f2-a354-be02bc6e532a@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 2:13?am, Noah Hall <enali... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joiner <anacro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.
>
> > Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?
>
> Ignore him, he's a troll with an unjustly inflated ego.

((laugh)) Well, that didn't take long.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:32:59 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm_BWCtYhiKg9r8BjrzKR=vs0-GPapzTHBRMSiyJXsziA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
>> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
>>
>> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
>
> Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
>
> Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
>
> Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> what looks like a float 0.10?
>
> What is "yield return"?

I would assume that "yield return" is borrowed from C#, where it is
basically equivalent to Python's yield statement.  The advantage of
using two keywords like that is that you can compare the statements
"yield return foo" and "yield break", which is a bit clearer than
comparing the equivalent "yield foo" and "return".

Having to type out "yield return" in every comprehension seems a bit
painful to me, but I can understand the approach: what is shown above
is a full generator, not a single "generator expression" like we use
in Python, so the statement keywords can't be omitted.  It's trading
off convenience for expressiveness (a bad trade-off IMO -- complex
generators should be named, not anonymous).

>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
>> a special keyword.
>
> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.

I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why does Python
require a special keyword?  def is only used in a statement context,
and lambda is only used in an expression context.  Why not use the
same keyword for both?  I think the answer is historical:  def came
first, and when anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to
use the keyword "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being
defined.

Cheers,
Ian


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 15:03:13 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:03:13 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3006.1322144862.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3006.1322144862.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ED3E901.30306@yahoo.com>

On 11/24/2011 9:27 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
...
> Several ways to speed up code.
>
> 1) use language features to best advantage
> 2) use 3rd party libraries that do certain things well
> 3) use best algorithms, subject to #1 and #2
> 4) have someone else review the code (perhaps on the list, perhaps
> within your own organization)
> 5) measure (eg. profile it)
> 6) use optimizing tools, such as pypy or Cython.
> 7) rewrite parts of it in another language
> 8) get a faster processor
> 9) rewrite it all in another language
>
> It takes experience to choose between these, and each project is
> different. But even the most experienced developers will frequently
> guess entirely wrong where the bottleneck is, which is why you measure
> if you care.

I agree that measuring (profiling) is the most critical.

As you say, even the most experienced programmers can guess wrong.  The 
first time I used a profiler a couple of decades ago I was egotistical 
enough to wonder how this thing could help me.  After all, I wrote the 
code.  I knew what it did.  The profiler wasn't going to tell me 
anything I didn't know.

I learned  a little humility after reading the profiler output.  The 
program was spending most of its time in a place that I never dreamed 
was a problem, and a 10 minute fix cut run times in half.

In that particular case there wasn't even a design problem, it was just 
a procedure call inside a tight loop that executed far more often than I 
imagined and could be replaced with a few lines of inline code.

I think the rest of your list is excellent too.

     Alan


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 28 15:05:00 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:05:00 -0800
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3E96C.9040701@stoneleaf.us>

Den wrote:
> With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> construct should be rare.  All constructs should be used
> *appropriately*.

+1

~Ethan~


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 28 15:08:23 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:08:23 -0500
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/28/2011 6:45 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> I'm happily using the ast module to analyze some code,
> but my scripts need also to run unfortunately on python 2.5
>
> The _ast was there already, but the ast helpers not yet.
> Is it ok if I just copy over the source from the ast helpers in my code
> base

That is the standard way of backporting features of later versions.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 28 15:20:36 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 20:20:36 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-28, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for
> creating functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why
> does Python require a special keyword?  def is only used in a
> statement context, and lambda is only used in an expression
> context.  Why not use the same keyword for both?  I think the
> answer is historical:  def came first, and when anonymous
> functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.

I've always held with the "anti-functional style conspiracy"
interpretation of Python's lambda expressions. They were added
but grudgingingly, made weak on purpose to discourage their use.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From plsullivan1 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 15:24:32 2011
From: plsullivan1 at gmail.com (plsullivan1 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:24:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
Message-ID: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>

I need for GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit to be Citylimit. The "cadastral" and "citylimit" will be different as I readlines from a list. In other words, the above could be GIS.GIS.Restricted\GIS.GIS.Pipeline and I would need Pipeline.

s = GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit
NeededValue = Citylimit

Thanks.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Nov 28 15:40:01 2011
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:40:01 +1300
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>

Travis Parks wrote:
> I thinking tabs are
> out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs
> would go away

The situation with make is a bit different, because it
*requires* tabs in certain places -- spaces won't do.
Python lets you choose which to use as long as you don't
mix them up, and I like it that way.

> let Parse = public static method (value: String)
> throws(FormatException UnderflowException OverflowException)

Checked exceptions? I fear you're repeating a huge mistake
going down that route...

-- 
Greg


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 28 15:45:55 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:45:55 -0800
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
Message-ID: <4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>

plsullivan1 at gmail.com wrote:
> s = GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit
> NeededValue = Citylimit

NeededValue = s.rsplit('.', 1)[1]

~Ethan~


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Nov 28 15:48:34 2011
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:48:34 +1300
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <9jiad5Fhr9U1@mid.individual.net>

Neil Cerutti wrote:

> I've always held with the "anti-functional style conspiracy"
> interpretation of Python's lambda expressions. They were added
> but grudgingingly, made weak on purpose to discourage their use.

Seems to me that Python's lambdas are about as powerful
as they can be given the statement/expression distinction.
No conspiracy is needed, just an understandable desire on
Guido's part not to do violence to the overall syntactic
style of the language.

-- 
Greg


From alemumihretu at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 15:52:13 2011
From: alemumihretu at gmail.com (Alemu mihretu)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:52:13 -0700
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm_BWCtYhiKg9r8BjrzKR=vs0-GPapzTHBRMSiyJXsziA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidm_BWCtYhiKg9r8BjrzKR=vs0-GPapzTHBRMSiyJXsziA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJ7cXfq+TCxidGt8LrfRRqMT+-ixqdL=gxgBAVUggSc90O=nA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

My python runs and crashes after another run. I am getting errors like
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library

program c:\Python27\pythonw.exe

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an usuak way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

Any Idea ?

my plot also does not work ? frustrating


On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> >> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
> >>
> >> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
> >
> > Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
> >
> > Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
> >
> > Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> > what looks like a float 0.10?
> >
> > What is "yield return"?
>
> I would assume that "yield return" is borrowed from C#, where it is
> basically equivalent to Python's yield statement.  The advantage of
> using two keywords like that is that you can compare the statements
> "yield return foo" and "yield break", which is a bit clearer than
> comparing the equivalent "yield foo" and "return".
>
> Having to type out "yield return" in every comprehension seems a bit
> painful to me, but I can understand the approach: what is shown above
> is a full generator, not a single "generator expression" like we use
> in Python, so the statement keywords can't be omitted.  It's trading
> off convenience for expressiveness (a bad trade-off IMO -- complex
> generators should be named, not anonymous).
>
> >> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> >> a special keyword.
> >
> > That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> > Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why does Python
> require a special keyword?  def is only used in a statement context,
> and lambda is only used in an expression context.  Why not use the
> same keyword for both?  I think the answer is historical:  def came
> first, and when anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to
> use the keyword "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being
> defined.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From arnodel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:08:29 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:08:29 +0000
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
	<4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1ZiF5njkGfsp77ieOv-_urrfoJOfNMTb7kUKbduaN6KvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 28 November 2011 20:45, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> plsullivan1 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> s = GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit
>> NeededValue = Citylimit
>
> NeededValue = s.rsplit('.', 1)[1]

Also:

>>> s[s.rfind(".") + 1:]
'Citylimit'
>>> s.rpartition(".")[2]
'Citylimit'

-- 
Arnaud


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 28 16:11:06 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 21:11:06 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net> <9jiad5Fhr9U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <9jibnaFrjeU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-28, Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> I've always held with the "anti-functional style conspiracy"
>> interpretation of Python's lambda expressions. They were added
>> but grudgingingly, made weak on purpose to discourage their
>> use.
>
> Seems to me that Python's lambdas are about as powerful as they
> can be given the statement/expression distinction. No
> conspiracy is needed, just an understandable desire on Guido's
> part not to do violence to the overall syntactic style of the
> language.

It's true. Most conspiracy theories do fall apart once facts and
clear thinking are applied. But we love them anyway. ;)

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From plsullivan1 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:13:44 2011
From: plsullivan1 at gmail.com (plsullivan1 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:13:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
	<4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28260178.222.1322514824753.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqi26>

Thanks!


From plsullivan1 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:13:44 2011
From: plsullivan1 at gmail.com (plsullivan1 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:13:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
	<4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28260178.222.1322514824753.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqi26>

Thanks!


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:29:06 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 3:40?pm, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Travis Parks wrote:
> > I thinking tabs are
> > out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs
> > would go away
>
> The situation with make is a bit different, because it
> *requires* tabs in certain places -- spaces won't do.
> Python lets you choose which to use as long as you don't
> mix them up, and I like it that way.
>
> > let Parse = public static method (value: String)
> > throws(FormatException UnderflowException OverflowException)
>
> Checked exceptions? I fear you're repeating a huge mistake
> going down that route...
>
> --
> Greg
>
>

Exception handling is one of those subjects few understand and fewer
can implement properly in modern code. Languages that don't support
exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has
been a massive annoyance. Perhaps something to provide or just shut
off via a command line parameter. What indications have there been
that this has been a flaw? I can see it alienating a large group of up-
and-coming developers.


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:34:07 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:34:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <16c6a453-22de-4dc3-bc99-16a45200fca2@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 2:32?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>
> <steve+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> >> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
>
> >> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
>
> > Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
>
> > Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
>
> > Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> > what looks like a float 0.10?
>
> > What is "yield return"?
>
> I would assume that "yield return" is borrowed from C#, where it is
> basically equivalent to Python's yield statement. ?The advantage of
> using two keywords like that is that you can compare the statements
> "yield return foo" and "yield break", which is a bit clearer than
> comparing the equivalent "yield foo" and "return".
>
> Having to type out "yield return" in every comprehension seems a bit
> painful to me, but I can understand the approach: what is shown above
> is a full generator, not a single "generator expression" like we use
> in Python, so the statement keywords can't be omitted. ?It's trading
> off convenience for expressiveness (a bad trade-off IMO -- complex
> generators should be named, not anonymous).
>
> >> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> >> a special keyword.
>
> > That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> > Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> functions, which is lambda-style. ?In any case, why does Python
> require a special keyword? ?def is only used in a statement context,
> and lambda is only used in an expression context. ?Why not use the
> same keyword for both? ?I think the answer is historical: ?def came
> first, and when anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to
> use the keyword "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being
> defined.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>
>

Most languages I have worked with have a "lambda" syntax and a
function syntax. It has always been a historical artifact. Languages
start out avoiding functional features and then eventually adopt them.
It seems that eventually, convenient high-order functions become a
must-have (most standard algorithm packages). It is a conflict between
old C-style programming and the need for functional code. As soon as
functions can be assigned to variables, the code starts looking oddly
like JavaScript.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:57:46 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:57:46 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
	<a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpFrSto5pXT1qk0y5iervKCtFav=6Q0WPAC-58R3KUQHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Languages that don't support
> exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
> Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
> had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has
> been a massive annoyance.

In Java, it mainly feels like syntactic salt. There's still a class of
RuntimeExceptions that aren't listed in the signature, so you still
have to concern yourself with the possibility that unexpected
exceptions will propagate; and you're forced to decorate every method
with the list of what it might propagate up, other than that.

It's like const-decorating a series of functions in C++, only far less
consequential and requiring far more typing.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 17:24:46 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 22:24:46 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
[...]
>>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
>>> for a special keyword.
>>
>> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
>> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
> 
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why does Python require
> a special keyword?  def is only used in a statement context, and lambda
> is only used in an expression context.  Why not use the same keyword for
> both?

Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and 
stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact 
that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def 
also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require 
special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes 
without a name. That's ugly.

def name(args): block  # okay

funcs = [def args: expr,  # okay so far
         def name(args): expr,  # not okay
         def: expr,  # okay
         ]

def: expr  # also okay

def: expr
    expr  # but not okay

x = def x: expr  # okay
x = def x(x): expr  # not okay

Using the same keyword for named and unnamed functions is, in my opinion, 
one of those foolish consistencies we are warned about. When deciding on 
syntax, the difference between anonymous and named functions are more 
significant than their similarities.


> I think the answer is historical:  def came first, and when
> anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.

That reasoning still applies even if they were added simultaneously.

Lambda is pretty old: it certainly exists in Python 1.5 and almost 
certainly in 1.4. While it doesn't exist as a keyword in Python 0.9.1, 
there is a module called "lambda" with a function "lambda" that uses more 
or less the same syntax. Instead of lambda x: x+1, you would instead 
write lambda("x", "x+1"). So the idea of including anonymous functions 
was around in Python circles before the syntax was locked in.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 17:48:24 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:48:24 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHkZGN0p9ywspqNuQgDKb1K9QbMEc-qfTZGCXiNkZTvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and
> stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact
> that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def
> also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require
> special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes
> without a name. That's ugly.
>

All you need to do is define that a block of code is an object (and
thus suitable material for an expression), and you have easy
commonality.

fn = def(args):
    block
    of
    code

Now def is an expression that takes an optional name (omitted in the
above), an arg list, and a block of code... and there's minimal
difference between named and anonymous functions. (If it's given a
name, then it sets __name__ and also binds to that name, being
convenient for the common case. The above code is a silly way to do
almost the default.)

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 17:57:47 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 22:57:47 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
	<a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed411eb$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:06 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:

> Exception handling is one of those subjects few understand and fewer can
> implement properly in modern code. Languages that don't support
> exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
> Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
> had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has been
> a massive annoyance. Perhaps something to provide or just shut off via a
> command line parameter. What indications have there been that this has
> been a flaw? I can see it alienating a large group of up- and-coming
> developers.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp05254/index.html

Note also that Bruce Eckel repeats a rumour that checked exceptions were 
*literally* an experiment snuck into the Java language while James 
Gosling was away on holiday.

http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/UnCheckedExceptionComments

Even if that is not true, checked exceptions are a feature that *in 
practice* seems to lead to poor exception handling and cruft needed only 
to satisfy the compiler:

http://www.alittlemadness.com/2008/03/12/checked-exceptions-failed-experiment/#comment-219143

and other annoyances. It's main appeal, it seems to me, is to give a 
false sense of security to Java developers who fail to realise that under 
certain circumstances Java will raise certain checked exceptions *even if 
they are not declared*. E.g. null pointer exceptions.

See also:

http://java.dzone.com/articles/checked-exceptions-i-love-you

and note especially the comment from the coder who says that he simply 
declares his functions to throw Exception (the most generic checked 
exception), thus defeating the whole point of checked exceptions.


-- 
Steven


From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 19:54:08 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 27, 6:55?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:
> > Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> > out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> > go away and many implementations have done just that.
>
> Tabs have every theoretical advantage and only one practical
> disadvantage: the common toolsets used by Unix programmers are crap in
> their handling of tabs, and instead of fixing the toolsets, they blame
> the tabs.
>
> The use of spaces as indentation is a clear case of a technically worse
> solution winning over a better solution.
>
> > I have been
> > seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> > such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> > spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).
>
> Why on earth should your language dictate the width of an indentation? I
> can understand that you might care that indents are consistent within a
> single source code unit (a file?), but anything more than that is just
> obnoxious.
>

I do not understand why the interpreter preprocesses each logical line
of source code using something as simple as this:

def reindent( line, spaces_per_tab=os.spaces_per_tab):

    index = 0  # index into line of text
    indent = 0 # increase 1 when in next tab column
    spaces = 0 # index into current column

    for c in line:
        if c == ' ':
            spaces +=1
            if spaces >= spaces_per_tab:
                indent += 1
                spaces = 0
        if c == '\t':   # jump to next tab column
            indent += 1
            spaces = 0
        if c <> ' ' and c <> '\t':
            break
        index += 1
    rest_of_line = line[index:]
    new_indent = ' ' * indent * spaces_per_tab + ' ' * spaces
    newline = new_indent + rest_of_line

    return newline

or even some regex equivelent.

That function would need to be run on each line of source code, after
processing the line continuation character and single/double/triple
quote pairs are processed but before the code block tokenizer (INDENT/
DEDENT) if possible. Unless some of you expert parser/compiler writers
know fancier tricks.

To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.


From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 19:59:42 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:59:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d305c62f-09cb-4695-9378-4f522daaacfd@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

> I do not understand why the interpreter preprocesses each logical line
> of source code using something as simple as this:


correction:

I do not understand why the interpreter - does not- preprocess each
logical line
of source code using something as simple as this:


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 20:49:49 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:49:49 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq4YABb-5XU7FkAYPFTJErHPPY2TyaVxNNFsn_zNK77ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, DevPlayer <devplayer at gmail.com> wrote:
> To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
> indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
> spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
> expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.

The trouble with having a language declaration that "a tab is
equivalent to X spaces" is that there's no consensus as to what X
should be. Historically X has always been 8, and quite a few programs
still assume this. I personally like 4. Some keep things narrow with
2. You can even go 1 - a strict substitution of \t with \x20. Once you
declare it in your language, you immediately break everyone who uses
anything different.

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:42:12 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 5:24?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> > <steve+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> [...]
> >>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
> >>> for a special keyword.
>
> >> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> >> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> > I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> > functions, which is lambda-style. ?In any case, why does Python require
> > a special keyword? ?def is only used in a statement context, and lambda
> > is only used in an expression context. ?Why not use the same keyword for
> > both?
>
> Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and
> stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact
> that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def
> also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require
> special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes
> without a name. That's ugly.
>
> def name(args): block ?# okay
>
> funcs = [def args: expr, ?# okay so far
> ? ? ? ? ?def name(args): expr, ?# not okay
> ? ? ? ? ?def: expr, ?# okay
> ? ? ? ? ?]
>
> def: expr ?# also okay
>
> def: expr
> ? ? expr ?# but not okay
>
> x = def x: expr ?# okay
> x = def x(x): expr ?# not okay
>
> Using the same keyword for named and unnamed functions is, in my opinion,
> one of those foolish consistencies we are warned about. When deciding on
> syntax, the difference between anonymous and named functions are more
> significant than their similarities.

A good example I have run into is recursion. When a local function
calls itself, the name of the function may not be part of scope (non-
local). Languages that support tail-end recursion optimization can't
optimize. In order to support this, a function in Unit will have
access to its own name and type. In other words, special scoping rules
are in place in Unit to allow treating a function as an expression.

>
> > I think the answer is historical: ?def came first, and when
> > anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> > "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.
>
> That reasoning still applies even if they were added simultaneously.
>
> Lambda is pretty old: it certainly exists in Python 1.5 and almost
> certainly in 1.4. While it doesn't exist as a keyword in Python 0.9.1,
> there is a module called "lambda" with a function "lambda" that uses more
> or less the same syntax. Instead of lambda x: x+1, you would instead
> write lambda("x", "x+1"). So the idea of including anonymous functions
> was around in Python circles before the syntax was locked in.

I find that interesting. I also find it interesting that the common
functional methods (all, any, map, filter) are basically built into
Python core language. That is unusual for most imperative programming
languages early-on.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:57:32 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:57:32 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmquEb6fGYHh0057n9JfwvAX2-ycFeUhgsECmDrbCOBScQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> A good example I have run into is recursion. When a local function
> calls itself, the name of the function may not be part of scope (non-
> local). Languages that support tail-end recursion optimization can't
> optimize. In order to support this, a function in Unit will have
> access to its own name and type. In other words, special scoping rules
> are in place in Unit to allow treating a function as an expression.

I'm inclined toward an alternative: explicit recursion. Either a
different syntax, or a special-case on the use of the function's own
name, but whichever syntax you use, it compiles in a "recurse" opcode.
That way, if name bindings change, it's still going to recurse -
something few languages guarantee, and therefore few languages can
optimize.

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:57:54 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:57:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
	<a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed411eb$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <c486f6ce-cedd-47bc-8a90-b12259a5cdcb@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 5:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:06 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:
> > Exception handling is one of those subjects few understand and fewer can
> > implement properly in modern code. Languages that don't support
> > exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
> > Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
> > had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has been
> > a massive annoyance. Perhaps something to provide or just shut off via a
> > command line parameter. What indications have there been that this has
> > been a flaw? I can see it alienating a large group of up- and-coming
> > developers.
>
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp05254/index.html
>
> Note also that Bruce Eckel repeats a rumour that checked exceptions were
> *literally* an experiment snuck into the Java language while James
> Gosling was away on holiday.
>
> http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/UnCheckedExceptionComments
>
> Even if that is not true, checked exceptions are a feature that *in
> practice* seems to lead to poor exception handling and cruft needed only
> to satisfy the compiler:
>
> http://www.alittlemadness.com/2008/03/12/checked-exceptions-failed-ex...
>
> and other annoyances. It's main appeal, it seems to me, is to give a
> false sense of security to Java developers who fail to realise that under
> certain circumstances Java will raise certain checked exceptions *even if
> they are not declared*. E.g. null pointer exceptions.
>
> See also:
>
> http://java.dzone.com/articles/checked-exceptions-i-love-you
>
> and note especially the comment from the coder who says that he simply
> declares his functions to throw Exception (the most generic checked
> exception), thus defeating the whole point of checked exceptions.
>
> --
> Steven

I think all of the examples you listed referred specifically to most
programmers finding ways around the annoyance. I have heard about
throwing generic Exception or inheriting all custom exception types
from RuntimeException. I did this quite often myself.

In general, unchecked exceptions shouldn't be caught. They occur
because of bad code and insufficient testing. Checked exceptions occur
because of downed databases, missing files, network problems - things
that may become available later without code changes.

One day, I went through about 10,000 lines of code and moved argument
checking code outside of try blocks because I realized I was handling
some of them by accident. Here is the program: if me == idiot: exit().

People don't think about this, but the exceptions thrown by a module
are part of that module's interface. Being able to make sure only what
you expect to come out is important. Unlike Java, Unit requires you to
opt in to using throws clauses. If you don't list one, one is
generated for you automatically. The benefit: you can see what a
function throws and protect yourself without all the babysitting.

A lack of exception handling is big problem in .NET. I have had
libraries from big names including Novell and Oracle throw
NullReferenceExceptions because _they_ didn't know what would happen
in cases where a DLL is missing or a dependency isn't installed. They
could have done better testing, but if the biggest names in
development can't manage to figure it, I say leave it up to the
compiler. Returning nulls or special value in cases of failures takes
us back to the days of C and Fortran.


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 22:00:48 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:00:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3113.1322531392.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2cb176e6-322f-4c2d-a9bd-c3c5b6729cb6@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 8:49?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, DevPlayer <devpla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
> > indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
> > spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
> > expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.
>
> The trouble with having a language declaration that "a tab is
> equivalent to X spaces" is that there's no consensus as to what X
> should be. Historically X has always been 8, and quite a few programs
> still assume this. I personally like 4. Some keep things narrow with
> 2. You can even go 1 - a strict substitution of \t with \x20. Once you
> declare it in your language, you immediately break everyone who uses
> anything different.
>
> ChrisA

Yeah. We must remember the Unix users, espcially those who don't know
how to hack Vim or bash. I've decided not to require a specific number
of spaces. I am still teetering on whether to allow tabs.


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 28 22:53:14 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:53:14 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <4ED3E901.30306@yahoo.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>	<mailman.3006.1322144862.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ED3E901.30306@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ED4572A.5020508@davea.name>

On 11/28/2011 03:03 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> On 11/24/2011 9:27 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> ...
>> Several ways to speed up code.
>>
>> 1) use language features to best advantage
>> 2) use 3rd party libraries that do certain things well
>> 3) use best algorithms, subject to #1 and #2
>> 4) have someone else review the code (perhaps on the list, perhaps
>> within your own organization)
>> 5) measure (eg. profile it)
>> 6) use optimizing tools, such as pypy or Cython.
>> 7) rewrite parts of it in another language
>> 8) get a faster processor
>> 9) rewrite it all in another language
>>
>> It takes experience to choose between these, and each project is
>> different. But even the most experienced developers will frequently
>> guess entirely wrong where the bottleneck is, which is why you measure
>> if you care.
>
> I agree that measuring (profiling) is the most critical.
>
> As you say, even the most experienced programmers can guess wrong.  
> The first time I used a profiler a couple of decades ago I was 
> egotistical enough to wonder how this thing could help me.  After all, 
> I wrote the code.  I knew what it did.  The profiler wasn't going to 
> tell me anything I didn't know.
>
> I learned  a little humility after reading the profiler output.  The 
> program was spending most of its time in a place that I never dreamed 
> was a problem, and a 10 minute fix cut run times in half.
>
> In that particular case there wasn't even a design problem, it was 
> just a procedure call inside a tight loop that executed far more often 
> than I imagined and could be replaced with a few lines of inline code.
>
> I think the rest of your list is excellent too.
>
>     Alan

Thanks.  I once had an assignment to speed up a function implementation 
which was obviously slow (I had noted the same thing to the architect 
when I first saw the code;  it would definitely be slow on large data 
sets).  I knew faster algorithms.  But I stopped instead to measure how 
many times it was being called in the particularly slow scenario that 
the customer complained about.  Turns out it wasn't being called at 
all.  I asked the appropriate developer why he had chosen to do it 
another way (expecting he'd say because he knew this function was slow), 
and he gave me an entirely different reason.  I asked him whether he'd 
be willing to call this function if I fixed his complaint about its 
interface, and he agreed.

Now, I rewrote the function, making a change to tighten its interface 
restrictions.  And it cut the customer's wait time from 90 minutes to 
2.  Everyone was happy.

Total time spent, a week.  But I didn't start coding till the 4th day.


-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 28 22:55:49 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:55:49 -0500
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>

On 11/28/2011 03:08 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/28/2011 6:45 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
>> I'm happily using the ast module to analyze some code,
>> but my scripts need also to run unfortunately on python 2.5
>>
>> The _ast was there already, but the ast helpers not yet.
>> Is it ok if I just copy over the source from the ast helpers in my code
>> base
>
> That is the standard way of backporting features of later versions.
>
But don't forget to tag it as version specific, so it gets removed when 
the later version of the library is available.  There are various ways 
of doing that, but the easiest is probably to put a test in the 
acceptance suite that fails if this code is used in 2.6 or later.

-- 

DaveA



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 22:58:17 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:58:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e4909b58-ae18-4169-ba44-ee9abf8d8260@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 29, 5:22?am, Den <patents... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 3:01?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> > That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing
> > for None, use of `is` should be rare.
>
> With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> construct should be rare. ?All constructs should be used
> *appropriately*.

Steven didn't say it _shouldn't_ be used, only that it it should be
_rarely_ used. General consensus would be that that is the most
appropriate use of 'is'.

Value comparisons are _far_ more common in Python than identity
comparisons, the ubiquitous None notwithstanding.

But for your general point, I totally agree. I feel the same way about
the ternary syntax, boolean defaults for conditionals etc


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 23:56:19 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:56:19 -0700
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmi7hr1d905pGy6P7maHT1_vsbTft8gYAAw49OCdzMV+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find that interesting. I also find it interesting that the common
> functional methods (all, any, map, filter) are basically built into
> Python core language. That is unusual for most imperative programming
> languages early-on.

all and any are actually quite recent additions.  Guido added them to
placate users of "reduce(lambda x, y: x and y, foo)" back when the
plan was to remove reduce in Python 3.

Cheers,
Ian


From mrinalini at edss.co.in  Tue Nov 29 02:34:01 2011
From: mrinalini at edss.co.in (Mrinalini Kulkarni)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:01 +0530
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
Message-ID: <98b3b679c77003a565bd306bc06c5709@edss.co.in>

 Hi

 I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it 
 executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and 
 their values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this 
 be done.

 thanks,



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 03:04:14 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 08:04:14 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3113.1322531392.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed491fe$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:49:49 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, DevPlayer <devplayer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
>> indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
>> spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
>> expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.
> 
> The trouble with having a language declaration that "a tab is equivalent
> to X spaces" is that there's no consensus as to what X should be.
> Historically X has always been 8, and quite a few programs still assume
> this. I personally like 4. Some keep things narrow with 2. You can even
> go 1 - a strict substitution of \t with \x20. Once you declare it in
> your language, you immediately break everyone who uses anything
> different.

Why should we enforce how many spaces a tab is set to? That is literally 
only visible to the editor, not the compiler. (Unless the parser is 
particularly stupid and merely substitutes X spaces for a tab every time 
it sees one.)

Mixed spaces and tabs in an indent are ambiguous, and so raises 
SyntaxError (or at least it *should* raise SyntaxError). But separate 
code blocks can use different absolute indent levels without ambiguity, 
so long as the relative indentation is consistent:

def ham(): # tab stops at 4 and 8
    do(a)
    do(b)
    if c:
        do(c)
    else:
        do(d)


def spam(): # tab stops at 8 and 12
        do(a)
        do(b)
        if c:
            do(c)
        else:
            do(d)

There is no meaningful difference in indentation between ham and spam 
above. In either case, I could replace spaces with tabs to get the same 
relative indents regardless of the absolute indentation.

I can appreciate the aesthetic argument that *within a single file*, 
indentation should be consistent. But it's not logically necessary for 
the parser: it need only be consistent within a single code unit 
(function or class usually). In other words: syntax should only care 
about relative indentation, absolute indentation belongs as a coding 
standard.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 03:12:09 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 08:12:09 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3114.1322535454.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed493d8$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:57:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> I'm inclined toward an alternative: explicit recursion. Either a
> different syntax, or a special-case on the use of the function's own
> name, but whichever syntax you use, it compiles in a "recurse" opcode.
> That way, if name bindings change, it's still going to recurse -
> something few languages guarantee, and therefore few languages can
> optimize.

As I recall, Forth uses (or used) a special RECURSE word which turned on 
the recursion bit while compiling, so that the compiled word could see 
itself.

By memory, the (incomplete) definition:

: fact dup 1- fact * ;

would fail, unless you happened to already have another word called fact 
existing at compilation time. To make it recurse correctly, the compiler 
needs to make sure that the namespace fact sees includes itself:

RECURSE : fact dup 1- fact * ;

which should work, apart from the embarrassing fact that I don't recall 
the syntax for conditional jumps and so the recursion never terminates.

:)


-- 
Steven


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov 29 03:15:41 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:15:41 +0100
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
In-Reply-To: <98b3b679c77003a565bd306bc06c5709@edss.co.in>
References: <98b3b679c77003a565bd306bc06c5709@edss.co.in>
Message-ID: <jb24be$ltg$1@dough.gmane.org>

Mrinalini Kulkarni, 29.11.2011 08:34:
> I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it
> executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and their
> values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this be done.

Assuming you have the source as well, you should change your script to be 
usable as an importable module as well as an executable script. Here is how:

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html#executing-modules-as-scripts

If you do not have the source, however, you are a bit out of luck. In that 
case, what so you mean by "pass a set of variables"? Do you mean command 
line arguments, or do you want to pass in global names that the module can 
use? In the first case, you may need to modify sys.argv. If the latter, you 
could change the globals() of the imported module. However, both are clumsy 
solutions, and if possible at all, you should change the module source code 
instead.

Stefan



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 03:41:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 08:41:30 GMT
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed49aba$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:22:09 -0800, Den wrote:

> With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> construct should be rare.  All constructs should be used
> *appropriately*.

And if those appropriate conditions are rare, then the use of the 
appropriate construct should also be rare. Since it is rare to need to 
care about identity, use of `is` should be rare too.

This is mostly descriptive statement rather than a prescriptive one: it 
is a fact that use of `is` is much less common than use of ==, and even 
more so if you disregard the obvious case of "x is None". 

I am however being a little prescriptive: if somebody thinks they need to 
care about identity, chances are good -- but not certain -- that they're 
mistaken. In code that gives you the choice between writing `is` and ==, 
it is usually, but not often, a bug to write `is`. The proof of this is 
that in actual, existing code, if you swapped == and `is`, most of the 
code would stop working correctly. 

On the other hand if you actually do need to care about identity, then go 
for it. I'm not saying that caring about identity should be prohibited, 
only that in practice it is uncommon that you will.


> While in general a particular use of a Python construct may be rare, if
> the programmer is involved deeply with that rare use, then it is NOT
> rare to him/her.

Regardless of how common brain surgery might be to a brain surgeon, it is 
rare in general. That's all I'm saying. If you happen to work for a data 
recovery centre, then pulling the disk platter out of a hard disk drive 
might be commonplace to you, nevertheless pulling platters out of disks 
is vanishingly rare: out of tens of thousands of HDDs, perhaps only a few 
dozen will be sent to a recover centre at all.

[...]
> Sorry, you plucked a string of mine.  One does not throw a tool out of
> your tool box because it might be dangerous.  Table saws are incredibly
> dangerous, but in the hands of a skilled operator can be competently and
> safely used to produce beautiful woodwork.  To say *never* use a table
> saw because it's dangerous is silly.

Fortunately, I didn't say "never".

In the case of `is`, one shouldn't avoid using `is` because it is 
dangerous, but merely because it is the wrong thing to use. In the same 
way, the average programmer will rarely need to use the math.sinh and 
math.cosh functions, not because they are bad, evil, or dangerous, but 
because they are used for specialist purposes that most coders would 
never care about. Hell, most coders rarely use the standard trigonometric 
functions sin and cos, let alone the hyperbolic versions! This is not a 
value judgement.

If I, in a misplaced sense of egalitarianism ("Emancipation for maths 
functions! Right on brothers!") decided to use sinh instead of sin 
because they looked and sounded similar, my code would almost certain be 
buggy. Likewise if I decided to use `is` instead of == because in English 
they have similar meanings, my code would probably be buggy too.

Sorry to belabour the point, but we're in violent agreement here <wink>



-- 
Steven


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 29 03:53:16 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:53:16 -0500
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed493d8$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.3114.1322535454.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed493d8$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ED49D7C.9000704@davea.name>

On 11/29/2011 03:12 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:57:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> I'm inclined toward an alternative: explicit recursion. Either a
>> different syntax, or a special-case on the use of the function's own
>> name, but whichever syntax you use, it compiles in a "recurse" opcode.
>> That way, if name bindings change, it's still going to recurse -
>> something few languages guarantee, and therefore few languages can
>> optimize.
> As I recall, Forth uses (or used) a special RECURSE word which turned on
> the recursion bit while compiling, so that the compiled word could see
> itself.
>
> By memory, the (incomplete) definition:
>
> : fact dup 1- fact * ;
>
> would fail, unless you happened to already have another word called fact
> existing at compilation time. To make it recurse correctly, the compiler
> needs to make sure that the namespace fact sees includes itself:
>
> RECURSE : fact dup 1- fact * ;
>
> which should work, apart from the embarrassing fact that I don't recall
> the syntax for conditional jumps and so the recursion never terminates.
>
> :)
>
The way I remember it, the current definition was "smudged" which made 
it invisible (it basically changed the name to something unlikely) 
during the compilation.  After all, if you actually ran it at compile 
time (which was frequently done), you could fall right into 
uninitialized space.  Anyway, some implementations had an immediate 
SMUDGE word, which toggled the smudge bit and made it visible again.

Other implementations had an immediate word RECURSE, which compiled in 
whatever word was being currently defined.
I'm pretty sure neither FIG nor Forth79 had either of these.  But I 
don't recall the ANSI standard (X3J14 ?), even though I was officially 
an observer.  I can't even remember what happened to my printed copy of 
the standard.

The easiest word for conditional is IF/ELSE/THEN.   IF will skip to the 
ELSE or THEN if the condition is false.  So something resembling:

: fact dup 1- dup 0<> if recurse * then ;

might do it.  That's very rough, however.  It's been a long time.

-- 

DaveA



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Nov 29 04:02:31 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:02:31 +0100
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3118.1322553616.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3118.1322553616.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7mjeq8-ubf.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 29.11.2011 08:34, schrieb Mrinalini Kulkarni:
> I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it
> executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and
> their values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this
> be done.

I don't think what you want is possible, due to a think-o in your 
design. Let me explain...
Firstly, .pyc files are basically the same as .py files, only in a 
different presentation. Then, PyImport_Import is basically the same as 
using "import" in a Python program. Now, and that is where your fault 
lies, importing a module actually means executing that module! For 
example, the definition of a function is code that when executed will 
cause a function to be created and attached to the current scope with 
the according name. This is what makes it so easy to implement local 
functions that are parametrized by arguments to the outer function. 
Still, a function is not something that is "static", like in C or Java, 
but rather the result of executing its function definition.

Now, how to get around this? The specialty about the import is that the 
__name__ attribute is not set to "__main__", upon which many scripts 
already react. So, in order to "prevent execution" (in the sense that 
you probably mean), you simply wrap the according code in a function. 
The function definition will then be executed, giving you a function 
that you can call with the according parameters, but the function itself 
will not be executed automatically. If you want that to happen when 
executing the .pyc file directly, check the content of __name__ and call 
the function if it is "__main__".

Note that another approach would be introspection, traversing through 
the namespaces to find out those parameters, but I would consider this 
solution as hackish if the one above is feasible.

Good luck!

Uli


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 04:51:24 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:51:24 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ED4AB1C.3080609@gmail.com>

On 11/29/2011 03:55 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
> But don't forget to tag it as version specific, so it gets removed 
> when the later version of the library is available.  There are various 
> ways of doing that, but the easiest is probably to put a test in the 
> acceptance suite that fails if this code is used in 2.6 or later.
>

Ok thanks,
something like this is ok?
(or maybe I can use a try/catch and export my own if is not found in the 
standard library?)

from sys import version_info

if version_info[1] == 5:
     from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
else:
     from ast import parse, NodeVisitor



From arnodel at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 05:11:06 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:11:06 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED4AB1C.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name> <4ED4AB1C.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1bSxdseL5ipCtxwWKQaSoBF6c=YFseZ-Y=R4=cNbrM=rg@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 November 2011 09:51, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> from sys import version_info
>
> if version_info[1] == 5:
> ? ?from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> else:
> ? ?from ast import parse, NodeVisitor

Why don't you just:

try:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
except ImportError:
    from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor

-- 
Arnaud


From mlto at live.jp  Tue Nov 29 05:46:24 2011
From: mlto at live.jp (Toshiyuki Ogura)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:46:24 +0900
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
Message-ID: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>


Hi.

I found a problem with Python 2.5.6.
test_commands fails when 'make test'.
bugs.python.org doesn't seem to have an option for Python 2.5 in "Versions:" drop-down menu when creating an issue.
The problem seems to be the same as #11946.
http://bugs.python.org/issue11946
I also made a patch for 2.5.6.

--- Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py.orig    2006-06-29 04:10:08.000000000 +0000
+++ Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py    2011-11-29 08:46:29.602607019 +0000
@@ -46,11 +46,7 @@
         #     drwxr-xr-x   15 Joe User My Group     4096 Aug 12 12:50 /
         # Note that the first case above has a space in the group name
         # while the second one has a space in both names.
-        pat = r'''d.........   # It is a directory.
-                  \+?          # It may have ACLs.
-                  \s+\d+       # It has some number of links.
-                  [^/]*        # Skip user, group, size, and date.
-                  /\.          # and end with the name of the file.
+        pat = r'''^.*(\/\.)[\ ]*[\n\r]*$
                '''
 
         self.assert_(re.match(pat, getstatus("/."), re.VERBOSE))


Can I submit the issue at bugs.python.org?
I think many people are still using Python 2.5 because of Google App Engine and fixing bugs with 2.5 is still helpful.

Toshiyuki Ogura

 		 	   		  
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 06:32:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 11:32:30 GMT
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
	<mailman.3121.1322560291.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:51:24 +0000, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 03:55 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> But don't forget to tag it as version specific, so it gets removed when
>> the later version of the library is available.  There are various ways
>> of doing that, but the easiest is probably to put a test in the
>> acceptance suite that fails if this code is used in 2.6 or later.
>>
>>
> Ok thanks,
> something like this is ok?
> (or maybe I can use a try/catch and export my own if is not found in the
> standard library?)
> 
> from sys import version_info
> 
> if version_info[1] == 5:
>      from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> else:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor


I prefer to check against sys.version.

import sys
if sys.version <= '2.5':
    from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
else:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor



Or even:


try:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
except ImportError:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor



-- 
Steven


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Tue Nov 29 07:50:59 2011
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:50:59 +0000
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to
	XML)
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
	<4ed37a63$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j21fq8x1l2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2011-11-28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:01 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
>> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
>> 
>> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8',
>> errors='replace') big_json = json.load(input_source)
>> input_source.close()
>> 
>> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance of
>> xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to rewrite
>> dict keys as valid element names if necessary), 
>
> How are you doing that? What do you consider valid?

Regex-replacing all whitespace ('\s+') with '_', and adding 'a_' to
the beginning of any potential tag that doesn't start with a letter.
This is good enough for my purposes.

>> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
>> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>
> It will force the output to be valid UTF-8 encoded to bytes, not 
> necessarily valid XML.

Yes!

>> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
>> PCDATA invalid Char value 31
>
> What's xmlstarlet, and at what point does it give this error? It doesn't 
> appear to be in the standard library.

It's a command-line tool I use a lot for finding the bad bits in XML,
nothing to do with python.

http://xmlstar.sourceforge.net/

>> I guess I need to process each piece of PCDATA to clean out the control
>> characters before creating the text node:
>> 
>>   text = doc.createTextNode(j)
>>   root.appendChild(text)
>> 
>> What's the best way to do that, bearing in mind that there can be
>> multibyte characters in the strings?
>
> Are you mixing unicode and byte strings?

I don't think I am.

> Are you sure that the input source is actually UTF-8? If not, then all 
> bets are off: even if the decoding step works, and returns a string, it 
> may contain the wrong characters. This might explain why you are getting 
> unexpected control characters in the output: they've come from a badly 
> decoded input.

I'm pretty sure that the input is really UTF-8, but has a few control
characters (fairly rare).

> Another possibility is that your data actually does contain control 
> characters where there shouldn't be any.

I think that's the problem, and I'm looking for an efficient way to
delete them from unicode strings.


-- 
Some say the world will end in fire; some say in segfaults.
                                                 [XKCD 312]


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Tue Nov 29 07:57:22 2011
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:57:22 +0000
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to
	XML)
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
	<mailman.3102.1322504456.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ie1fq8x1r2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2011-11-28, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Adam Funk, 25.11.2011 14:50:
>> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
>> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
>>
>> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
>
> It doesn't make sense to use codecs.open() with a "b" mode.

OK, thanks.

>> big_json = json.load(input_source)
>
> You shouldn't decode the input before passing it into json.load(), just 
> open the file in binary mode. Serialised JSON is defined as being UTF-8 
> encoded (or BOM-prefixed), not decoded Unicode.

So just do
  input_source = open(input_file, 'rb')
  big_json = json.load(input_source)
?

>> input_source.close()
>
> In case of a failure, the file will not be closed safely. All in all, use 
> this instead:
>
>      with open(input_file, 'rb') as f:
>          big_json = json.load(f)

OK, thanks.

>> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
>> of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
>> rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary)
>
> If the name "big_json" is supposed to hint at a large set of data, you may 
> want to use something other than minidom. Take a look at the 
> xml.etree.cElementTree module instead, which is substantially more memory 
> efficient.

Well, the input file in this case contains one big JSON list of
reasonably sized elements, each of which I'm turning into a separate
XML file.  The output files range from 600 to 6000 bytes.


>> and I save the document:
>>
>> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
>> doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
>> xml_file.close()
>
> Same mistakes as above. Especially the double encoding is both unnecessary 
> and likely to fail. This is also most likely the source of your problems.

Well actually, I had the problem with the occasional control
characters in the output *before* I started sticking encoding="UTF-8"
all over the place (in an unsuccessful attempt to beat them down).


>> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
>> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>>
>> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
>> PCDATA invalid Char value 31
>
> This strongly hints at a broken encoding, which can easily be triggered by 
> your erroneous encode-and-encode cycles above.

No, I've checked the JSON input and those exact control characters are
there too.  I want to suppress them (delete or replace with spaces).

> Also, the kind of problem you present here makes it pretty clear that you 
> are using Python 2.x. In Python 3, you'd get the appropriate exceptions 
> when trying to write binary data to a Unicode file.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the version I'm using, which is "2.7.2+".


-- 
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-?999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the 
myth of the infallible electronic brain.  (Stob 2001)


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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 08:51:26 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:51:26 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
	<mailman.3121.1322560291.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ED4E35E.6090405@gmail.com>

On 11/29/2011 11:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> I prefer to check against sys.version.
>
> import sys
> if sys.version<= '2.5':
>      from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> else:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
>
>
>
> Or even:
>
>
> try:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> except ImportError:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
>
>
>

The try/except is probably the nicest...
I've seen in other places using sys.version <=, but is it a good idea to 
rely
on the fact that the <= on strings has the right semantic?
After all that's just a string, version_info looks more correct to me..


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 09:07:08 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:07:08 +1100
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
In-Reply-To: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1POmj32t3YLBSG2XsvM_E_yB1W7KG2=XCUkt5RSsoL9bg@mail.gmail.com>

Note the re.VERBOSE flag allows this whitespace treatment of the pattern.

2011/11/29 Toshiyuki Ogura <mlto at live.jp>:
> Hi.
>
> I found a problem with Python 2.5.6.
> test_commands fails when 'make test'.
> bugs.python.org doesn't seem to have an option for Python 2.5 in "Versions:"
> drop-down menu when creating an issue.
> The problem seems to be the same as #11946.
> http://bugs.python.org/issue11946
> I also made a patch for 2.5.6.
>
> --- Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py.orig??? 2006-06-29
> 04:10:08.000000000 +0000
> +++ Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py??? 2011-11-29 08:46:29.602607019
> +0000
> @@ -46,11 +46,7 @@
> ???????? #???? drwxr-xr-x?? 15 Joe User My Group???? 4096 Aug 12 12:50 /
> ???????? # Note that the first case above has a space in the group name
> ???????? # while the second one has a space in both names.
> -? ?????? pat = r'''d.........?? # It is a directory.
> -????????????????? \+?????????? # It may have ACLs.
> -????????????????? \s+\d+?????? # It has some number of links.
> -????????????????? [^/]*??????? # Skip user, group, size, and date.
> -????????????????? /\.????????? # and end with the name of the file.
> +??????? pat = r'''^.*(\/\.)[\ ]*[\n\r]*$
> ??????????&nbs p;???? '''
>
> ???????? self.assert_(re.match(pat, getstatus("/."), re.VERBOSE))
>
>
> Can I submit the issue at bugs.python.org?
> I think many people are still using Python 2.5 because of Google App Engine
> and fixing bugs with 2.5 is still helpful.
>
> Toshiyuki Ogura
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Nov 29 09:19:55 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 06:19:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
In-Reply-To: <7mjeq8-ubf.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <mailman.3118.1322553616.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<7mjeq8-ubf.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4302173.419.1322576395669.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnh1>

On Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:02:31 PM UTC+8, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Am 29.11.2011 08:34, schrieb Mrinalini Kulkarni:
> > I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it
> > executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and
> > their values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this
> > be done.
> 
> I don't think what you want is possible, due to a think-o in your 
> design. Let me explain...
> Firstly, .pyc files are basically the same as .py files, only in a 
> different presentation. Then, PyImport_Import is basically the same as 
> using "import" in a Python program. Now, and that is where your fault 
> lies, importing a module actually means executing that module! For 
> example, the definition of a function is code that when executed will 
> cause a function to be created and attached to the current scope with 
> the according name. This is what makes it so easy to implement local 
> functions that are parametrized by arguments to the outer function. 
> Still, a function is not something that is "static", like in C or Java, 
> but rather the result of executing its function definition.
> 
> Now, how to get around this? The specialty about the import is that the 
> __name__ attribute is not set to "__main__", upon which many scripts 
> already react. So, in order to "prevent execution" (in the sense that 
> you probably mean), you simply wrap the according code in a function. 
> The function definition will then be executed, giving you a function 
> that you can call with the according parameters, but the function itself 
> will not be executed automatically. If you want that to happen when 
> executing the .pyc file directly, check the content of __name__ and call 
> the function if it is "__main__".
> 
> Note that another approach would be introspection, traversing through 
> the namespaces to find out those parameters, but I would consider this 
> solution as hackish if the one above is feasible.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Uli

Please use psyco and pyrex and C or whatever that can read saved results in a file, or just learn how to replace a hash or a sort in  python's build in library of better speed, don't do reference overheads in 
those c type variables that won't overflow and underflow  and used by other objects in python. Not trivial but well documented to cheer for a race!

 


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov 29 09:33:57 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:33:57 +0100
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON
	to XML)
In-Reply-To: <ie1fq8x1r2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>	<mailman.3102.1322504456.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ie1fq8x1r2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <jb2qgl$pf9$1@dough.gmane.org>

Adam Funk, 29.11.2011 13:57:
> On 2011-11-28, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Adam Funk, 25.11.2011 14:50:
>>> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
>>> of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
>>> rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary)
>>
>> If the name "big_json" is supposed to hint at a large set of data, you may
>> want to use something other than minidom. Take a look at the
>> xml.etree.cElementTree module instead, which is substantially more memory
>> efficient.
>
> Well, the input file in this case contains one big JSON list of
> reasonably sized elements, each of which I'm turning into a separate
> XML file.  The output files range from 600 to 6000 bytes.

It's also substantially easier to use, but if your XML writing code works 
already, why change it.


>>> and I save the document:
>>>
>>> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
>>> doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
>>> xml_file.close()
>>
>> Same mistakes as above. Especially the double encoding is both unnecessary
>> and likely to fail. This is also most likely the source of your problems.
>
> Well actually, I had the problem with the occasional control
> characters in the output *before* I started sticking encoding="UTF-8"
> all over the place (in an unsuccessful attempt to beat them down).

You should read up on Unicode a bit.


>>> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
>>> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>>>
>>> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
>>> PCDATA invalid Char value 31
>>
>> This strongly hints at a broken encoding, which can easily be triggered by
>> your erroneous encode-and-encode cycles above.
>
> No, I've checked the JSON input and those exact control characters are
> there too.

Ah, right, I didn't look closely enough. Those are forbidden in XML:

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#charsets

It's sad that minidom (apparently) lets them pass through without even a 
warning.


> I want to suppress them (delete or replace with spaces).

Ok, then you need to process your string content while creating XML from 
it. If replacing is enough, take a look at string.maketrans() in the string 
module and str.translate(), a method on strings. Or maybe just use a 
regular expression that matches any whitespace character and replace it 
with a space. Or whatever suits your data best.


>> Also, the kind of problem you present here makes it pretty clear that you
>> are using Python 2.x. In Python 3, you'd get the appropriate exceptions
>> when trying to write binary data to a Unicode file.
>
> Sorry, I forgot to mention the version I'm using, which is "2.7.2+".

Yep, Py2 makes Unicode handling harder than it should be.

Stefan



From mlto at live.jp  Tue Nov 29 10:17:50 2011
From: mlto at live.jp (Toshiyuki Ogura)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:17:50 +0900
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
In-Reply-To: <CAB4yi1POmj32t3YLBSG2XsvM_E_yB1W7KG2=XCUkt5RSsoL9bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>,
	<CAB4yi1POmj32t3YLBSG2XsvM_E_yB1W7KG2=XCUkt5RSsoL9bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU150-W5A34478B380EF2DDF7F7AC2B30@phx.gbl>


I mistakenly posted the previous message in html format, and some rubbish text '&nbs p;' was unexpectedly inserted in the patch.
I'll post the content of the patch again.
Sorry for the inconvenience.


--- Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py.orig??? 2006-06-29 04:10:08.000000000 +0000
+++ Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py??? 2011-11-29 08:46:29.602607019 +0000
@@ -46,11 +46,7 @@
???????? #???? drwxr-xr-x?? 15 Joe User My Group???? 4096 Aug 12 12:50 /
???????? # Note that the first case above has a space in the group name
???????? # while the second one has a space in both names.
-??????? pat = r'''d.........?? # It is a directory.
-????????????????? \+?????????? # It may have ACLs.
-????????????????? \s+\d+?????? # It has some number of links.
-????????????????? [^/]*??????? # Skip user, group, size, and date.
-????????????????? /\.????????? # and end with the name of the file.
+??????? pat = r'''^.*(\/\.)[\ ]*[\n\r]*$
??????????????? '''
?
???????? self.assert_(re.match(pat, getstatus("/."), re.VERBOSE))






Toshiyuki Ogura

 		 	   		  

From jmarcedwards at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 10:21:52 2011
From: jmarcedwards at gmail.com (J. Marc Edwards)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:21:52 -0500
Subject: Amateur question on class definitions...
Message-ID: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>

So I am defining my Python classes for a Django data model.  I have a
the following class hierarchy and would value some expert input on how
to best implement this.

I have many instances of a particular class which I call a "workflow",
e.g. wf_1, wf_2, wf_3, etc.
These class instances of workflows can be combined into "composite
workflows", e.g. {cwf_1 is comprised of wf1 & wf_3}, {cwf_2 is wf_2 and
wf_3}, or {cwf_3 is just wf_2}, etc.
The workflows that constitute the composite workflow is positionally
dependent, i.e. if cwf_1 is comprised of wf_1 and wf_3, then wf_1 comes
1st AND wf_3 is 2nd.
As I have many workflow instances that accumulate in my persistent
database (Django data model), then the composite workflows become an
ordered collection of workflow instances.

My first thought here is that the composite workflow class should have a
field that is a simple list of workflows, i.e. list(workflows), but I am
somewhat unsure of how to code this correctly.

Here is a sample pseudo-code...

class a_workflow(models.Model):
...

class composite_workflow(models.Model):
    ...a list of "a_workflows", i.e. a composite workflow, should I use
this syntax?
    set_of_workflows = list(a_workflow)

Is this how a pro would do this?

Regards, Marc
-- 

J. Marc Edwards
Lead Architect - Semiconductor Design Portals
Nimbis Services, Inc.
Skype: (919) 747-3775
Cell:  (919) 345-1021
Fax:   (919) 882-8602
marc.edwards at nimbisservices.com
www.nimbisservices.com

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From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 10:59:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:59:40 +1100
Subject: Amateur question on class definitions...
In-Reply-To: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
References: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpe2P1YzuL6kjAiLmrFkZzpVRXXgHCxk2DOp-jJNPsxmg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:21 AM, J. Marc Edwards <jmarcedwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> ??? ...a list of "a_workflows", i.e. a composite workflow, should I use this
> syntax?
> ??? set_of_workflows = list(a_workflow)
>

This would be usual:

set_of_workflows = [a_workflow]

Using the list() constructor directly is for when you have some other
iterable; for instance, a string is iterable over its characters:

>>> list("Hello")
['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o']

When you want to wrap up a single object in a list, square brackets
syntax is what you want.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 11:38:19 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:38:19 -0700
Subject: Amateur question on class definitions...
In-Reply-To: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
References: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidngSHk--HVb_yiqLSEeXMUnC7rHnTjj_EngOZq8hr13zw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:21 AM, J. Marc Edwards <jmarcedwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I am defining my Python classes for a Django data model.? I have a the
> following class hierarchy and would value some expert input on how to best
> implement this.
>
> I have many instances of a particular class which I call a "workflow", e.g.
> wf_1, wf_2, wf_3, etc.
> These class instances of workflows can be combined into "composite
> workflows", e.g. {cwf_1 is comprised of wf1 & wf_3}, {cwf_2 is wf_2 and
> wf_3}, or {cwf_3 is just wf_2}, etc.
> The workflows that constitute the composite workflow is positionally
> dependent, i.e. if cwf_1 is comprised of wf_1 and wf_3, then wf_1 comes 1st
> AND wf_3 is 2nd.
> As I have many workflow instances that accumulate in my persistent database
> (Django data model), then the composite workflows become an ordered
> collection of workflow instances.
>
> My first thought here is that the composite workflow class should have a
> field that is a simple list of workflows, i.e. list(workflows), but I am
> somewhat unsure of how to code this correctly.
>
> Here is a sample pseudo-code...
>
> class a_workflow(models.Model):
> ...
>
> class composite_workflow(models.Model):
> ??? ...a list of "a_workflows", i.e. a composite workflow, should I use this
> syntax?
> ??? set_of_workflows = list(a_workflow)
>
> Is this how a pro would do this?

That would work in general, but since these are Django models I assume
that this relationship will need to be stored in the database.  You'll
need to use a ManyToManyField instead.  I would do something like
this:

class Workflow(models.Model):
    pass

class CompositeWorkflow(models.Model):
    workflow_set = models.ManyToManyField('Workflow',
through='CompositeWorkflowOrder')

class CompositeWorkflowOrder(models.Model):
    workflow = models.ForeignKey('Workflow')
    composite_workflow = models.ForeignKey('CompositeWorkflow')
    sequence_num = models.IntegerField()

The CompositeWorkflowOrder model is then responsible for tracking
which workflows are contained by which composite workflows, and in
what order they appear (using sequence_num).  See the Django docs on
ManyToManyFields for more info.

Cheers,
Ian


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 12:11:26 2011
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:11:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed49aba$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7de6a1b0-299e-468b-9ef2-9809643957a9@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 29, 12:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:22:09 -0800, Den wrote:
> > With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> > construct should be rare. ?All constructs should be used
> > *appropriately*.
>
> And if those appropriate conditions are rare, then the use of the
> appropriate construct should also be rare. Since it is rare to need to
> care about identity, use of `is` should be rare too.
>
> This is mostly descriptive statement rather than a prescriptive one: it
> is a fact that use of `is` is much less common than use of ==, and even
> more so if you disregard the obvious case of "x is None".
>
> I am however being a little prescriptive: if somebody thinks they need to
> care about identity, chances are good -- but not certain -- that they're
> mistaken. In code that gives you the choice between writing `is` and ==,
> it is usually, but not often, a bug to write `is`. The proof of this is
> that in actual, existing code, if you swapped == and `is`, most of the
> code would stop working correctly.
>
> On the other hand if you actually do need to care about identity, then go
> for it. I'm not saying that caring about identity should be prohibited,
> only that in practice it is uncommon that you will.
>
> > While in general a particular use of a Python construct may be rare, if
> > the programmer is involved deeply with that rare use, then it is NOT
> > rare to him/her.
>
> Regardless of how common brain surgery might be to a brain surgeon, it is
> rare in general. That's all I'm saying. If you happen to work for a data
> recovery centre, then pulling the disk platter out of a hard disk drive
> might be commonplace to you, nevertheless pulling platters out of disks
> is vanishingly rare: out of tens of thousands of HDDs, perhaps only a few
> dozen will be sent to a recover centre at all.
>
> [...]
>
> > Sorry, you plucked a string of mine. ?One does not throw a tool out of
> > your tool box because it might be dangerous. ?Table saws are incredibly
> > dangerous, but in the hands of a skilled operator can be competently and
> > safely used to produce beautiful woodwork. ?To say *never* use a table
> > saw because it's dangerous is silly.
>
> Fortunately, I didn't say "never".
>
> In the case of `is`, one shouldn't avoid using `is` because it is
> dangerous, but merely because it is the wrong thing to use. In the same
> way, the average programmer will rarely need to use the math.sinh and
> math.cosh functions, not because they are bad, evil, or dangerous, but
> because they are used for specialist purposes that most coders would
> never care about. Hell, most coders rarely use the standard trigonometric
> functions sin and cos, let alone the hyperbolic versions! This is not a
> value judgement.
>
> If I, in a misplaced sense of egalitarianism ("Emancipation for maths
> functions! Right on brothers!") decided to use sinh instead of sin
> because they looked and sounded similar, my code would almost certain be
> buggy. Likewise if I decided to use `is` instead of == because in English
> they have similar meanings, my code would probably be buggy too.
>
> Sorry to belabour the point, but we're in violent agreement here <wink>
>
> --
> Steven

((laugh)) Yes, I believe we are.

D


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 13:34:00 2011
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:34:00 -0500
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
In-Reply-To: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyZn7UNyWe5t6_9yQkbEOvPHy+WajgAKtSobZk_pFZndmQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/29 Toshiyuki Ogura <mlto at live.jp>

>  I found a problem with Python 2.5.6.
>
...

> Can I submit the issue at bugs.python.org?
> I think many people are still using Python 2.5 because of Google App
> Engine and fixing bugs with 2.5 is still helpful.
>

I don't think they'll be accepted.  Python 2.5 is not slated to receive any
more releases, ever.  Not even source-only security fixes.  According to
http://www.python.org/getit/releases/2.5.6/, "This release is the final
release of Python 2.5; under the current release policy, no security issues
in Python 2.5 will be fixed anymore."  Given that they're not even
accepting security patches, I'm sure they won't accept non-security
bugfixes either.

If your goal is to get your patch accepted and deployed on google's app
engine infrastructure, you could try getting a hold of someone at google,
and asking if they accept patches directly, since there will be no further
maintenance from the core python developers.  I have no idea how difficult
it would be to do that, or if there's any interest in accepting patches
against python 2.5 at google.

-- 
Jerry
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From dpalao.python at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 14:09:44 2011
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (DPalao)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:09:44 +0100
Subject: 70% [* SPAM *] multiprocessing.Queue blocks when sending large object
Message-ID: <23330_1322593803_pATJ9jRv011464_201111292009.44527.dpalao.python@gmail.com>

Hello,
I'm trying to use multiprocessing to parallelize a code. There is a number of 
tasks (usually 12) that can be run independently. Each task produces a numpy 
array, and at the end, those arrays must be combined.
I implemented this using Queues (multiprocessing.Queue): one for input and 
another for output.
But the code blocks. And it must be related to the size of the item I put on 
the Queue: if I put a small array, the code works well; if the array is 
realistically large (in my case if can vary from 160kB to 1MB), the code 
blocks apparently forever.
I have tried this:
http://www.bryceboe.com/2011/01/28/the-python-multiprocessing-queue-and-large-
objects/
but it didn't work (especifically I put a None sentinel at the end for each 
worker).

Before I change the implementation, 
is there a way to bypass this problem with  multiprocessing.Queue?
Should I post the code (or a sketchy version of it)?

TIA,

David


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Nov 29 14:37:58 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:37:58 -0600
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <javuo7$lq0$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com> <javuo7$lq0$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/28/11 06:27, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 11/28/11 12:12 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> I can monkey with printing messages and using raw_input(),
>> but I'd like to know if there's a better way (such as
>> something interacting with readline for
>> text-entry-with-history-and-completion,
>
> If you import readline, then any following uses of
> raw_input() will automatically use readline. You may want to
> swap out the history when you use get_string() or confirm() so
> they don't mess up the regular Cmd history, but the basic
> functionality should work out-of-box.

I didn't realize raw_input() was so nicely overloaded.  After 
about 30 minutes of fighting with various bits of code (and 
learning that pdb's readline doesn't save/restore history), I 
tweaked up some "save the history; restore the history" wrapper 
which worked well.

>> or raw-character input for Y/N answers rather than the need
>> to hit<enter>, making it feel more uniform),
>
> I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for
> Y/N answers, too. It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some
> questions requiring an enter and some not. It can be
> unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.

After playing with it, allowing for a default Y/N value seems to 
make it a one-key selection via <enter>, but allow for 
less-surprising behavior as you detail.

Thanks for your input (no pun intended),

-tkc




From colinh at somewhere.invalid  Tue Nov 29 15:06:30 2011
From: colinh at somewhere.invalid (Colin Higwell)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:06:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
Message-ID: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>

Hi,

I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours), 
so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them 
scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results 
intended.

However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning 
and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems 
to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn 
calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the 
work. 

Is that standard best practice?

Thanks



From arnodel at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 15:34:01 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:34:01 +0000
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Yk5qyuR=HOvsvwofsO9gohGt6=4O26kEPpnXnU9GTkbA@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 November 2011 20:06, Colin Higwell <colinh at somewhere.invalid> wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Colin, and welcome to Python :)

> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours),
> so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them
> scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results
> intended.

I think you can call them either.

> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.
>
> Is that standard best practice?

When code should be put in a function is a matter of judgement in the
end, so it's not an easy question.  But roughly speaking:

- if you need to perform the same task at several points in you
program, then it's a good idea to put this in a function.  It avoids
duplication of code, minimises the chances for bugs, makes the program
easier to read (provided you find a nice name for the function!) and
also improves testability.

- if there is a task that could be performed is several different ways
but with the same result, then it's good to put in a function.  This
way when reading the program you can focus on the important thing,
which is the result of the process, without being distracted by the
details of how the result is arrived at.  Moreover, it gives you added
flexibility as you can later try a different method for performing the
same task and very easily plug it into your existing program to see if
it improves performance for example.

- if you have a piece of code which is too long to be understood
easily, consider whether you could break it down into smaller bits,
each of which has some meaning of its own, and make each bit into a
function with a name that describes clearly what it does.  Then
rewrite your big piece of code in terms of these functions.  It will
make your program a lot easier to understand when you come back to it
in the future.

As for the main() function, I don't think it is standard practice in
Python.  There is no requirement to have a main() function.  You can
use the idiom:

if __name__ == "__main__":
    ...

which will execute if you call the file as a script (as opposed to
importing it as a module)

-- 
Arnaud


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 15:36:35 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:36:35 +1100
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoFbqQbOXsynoiyxYWab_3Cm7xDsUA0-62JEwoNPiZDvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Colin Higwell <colinh at somewhere.invalid> wrote:
> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.

The reason for this practice is to allow your .py file to be either a
top-level program or an imported module.

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()

When you run a .py file directly, __name__ will be "__main__", and
it'll execute main(). (Some programs directly embed the main routine
in that if block - appropriate if main() would be very short, eg just
calling some other function.) But if you import it as a module in some
other program, that won't be the case; so instead, the module's
functions are made available to the calling program.

For simple scripts that don't have anything to offer as a module, it's
fine to not bother with this structure. Python doesn't demand
syntactic salt; that's one of its greatest features, IMHO.

Chris Angelico


From neilc at norwich.edu  Tue Nov 29 16:12:48 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 21:12:48 GMT
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3134.1322598844.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9jl06gFg9oU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-29, Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> wrote:
> As for the main() function, I don't think it is standard
> practice in Python.  There is no requirement to have a main()
> function.  You can use the idiom:

I don't start off with a main function, but if my script gets
long and complicated, or if global names have proliferated and
have become confusing, I'll refactor the whole thing into
functions, including a "main". With most globals moved into
main's namespace, calling subroutines from main forces me to
define the context that's actually necessary for each part of the
program.

The resultant refactored programs are much easier to test, read
and maintain.

TLDR: "Called-only-once" functions like main are useful as
documentation, hooks for testing, and for unraveling a snarl of
global variables.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 29 16:57:18 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:57:18 -0500
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ED5553E.4050104@davea.name>

On 11/29/2011 03:06 PM, Colin Higwell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours),
> so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them
> scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results
> intended.
>
> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.
>
> Is that standard best practice?
>
> Thanks
>
Welcome to Python, and to the comp.lang.python list. Is this your first 
experience programming?

Yes, factoring your code from "monolithic" to "modular' (several 
functions, or even functions and classes), is good practice.

That's not to say that some problems don't deserve a monolithic answer, 
but if you're a beginner, i'd like to see you get into a modular habit.

You can use the words script and program pretty much interchangeably.  
in some contexts, each has additional connotations.  For example, 
somebody used to a compiled language may refer to a python source file 
as a script, implying it's not as sophisticated as his own product.  
But, closer to home, we usually refer to the file you directly pass to 
the interpreter as a script, and any added files that get imported, as 
modules, or libraries.

Other times, people will refer to a simple program as a script, implying 
that all it does is invoke some standard library functions, or even run 
some external programs.  But when it gets more complex, it gradually 
turns into a  "real program."


Why break up a monolith?

Several reasons.  If you factor the code into independent functions, and 
give them good names, then each piece of the program is easier to 
understand.  You will especially appreciate that if you come back to the 
code after doing something else for two weeks.  Similarly if somebody 
else has to take over your code, or maybe adapt it to a slightly 
different purpose.

Next, if it doesn't quite work, you can exercise the individual pieces 
independently, and narrow down the problem more quickly.

Next, if the progfram is slow, usually you can narrow it down to a few 
key functions that take most of the time.  You can write two versions of 
the same function, and do some careful timings to decide which one to use.

Next, some of those functions may be useful in the next program you 
write.  If you "reuse" the code by copy & paste, and find a problem in 
the new one, it's quite possible that the same problem may exist in your 
first program.  it's easier to bring those changes back if they're in a 
function than if they're in lines 14 through 71.

Finally, some of that reusable code may be worth moving to an external 
file, called a module.  Then the same copy can be literally shared 
between multiple projects.  This is how libraries were born, and you can 
write your own, eventually.

there are many other reasons, but some of them might not make sense to 
you yet.


How do you break it up?

First, separate the classic parts that most scripts will have.  Put the 
imports at the top, along with a comment describing the whole progfram's 
purpose.  Next put the global variables, which should be few.  If there 
are any constants, use all UPPERCASE for their names.

Next, put the function and class definitions.  Notice that none of them 
will be called yet, so the order of execution isn't important to the 
compiler.  Each function needs a name, and you should use a name that 
makes sense to you.  Try to write functions that work at a single level 
of complexity, and do one complete operation.  Try not to do 
input/output in the same functions that do the computation.

And finally, put the actual mainline.  It could be as simple as a call 
to main(), but it may make more sense to you to put the calls to 
argument processing here, rather than in a main function.  By arguments 
here, i'm referring to the stuff you typed on the command line when youi 
invoked the script.  This part of the code is where you do the magic 
incantation:

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main()



When the number of functions gets unwieldy, it's time to move some of 
them to a new file.  They should be related, and should work at the same 
level of complexity.  And the file name should remind you of their 
purpose.  At that point, you add an import of that file to your main 
source script.  Congratulations, you've created a module.

One catch with writing a lengthy reply is that others have already given 
you good feedback.  Hopefully, mine will complement theirs.

-- 

DaveA



From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 17:53:15 2011
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
Message-ID: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

fun programing exercise. Write a function ?latitude-longitude-
decimalize?.

It should take a string like this: ?"37?26?36.42?N 06?15?14.28?W"?.
The return value should be a pair of numbers, like this: ?[37.44345
-6.25396]?.

Feel free to use perl, python, ruby, lisp, etc. I'll post a emacs lisp
solution in a couple of days.

 Xah


From colinh at somewhere.invalid  Tue Nov 29 18:08:30 2011
From: colinh at somewhere.invalid (Colin Higwell)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:08:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3136.1322603871.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jb3ole$euh$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:57:18 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 03:06 PM, Colin Higwell wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few
>> hours), so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you
>> call them scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the
>> results intended.
>>
>> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the
>> beginning and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note
>> that it seems to be quite common to have a function main() at the start
>> (which in turn calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call
>> main() to do the work.
>>
>> Is that standard best practice?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
> Welcome to Python, and to the comp.lang.python list. Is this your first
> experience programming?
> 
> Yes, factoring your code from "monolithic" to "modular' (several
> functions, or even functions and classes), is good practice.
> 
> That's not to say that some problems don't deserve a monolithic answer,
> but if you're a beginner, i'd like to see you get into a modular habit.
> 
> You can use the words script and program pretty much interchangeably.
> in some contexts, each has additional connotations.  For example,
> somebody used to a compiled language may refer to a python source file
> as a script, implying it's not as sophisticated as his own product.
> But, closer to home, we usually refer to the file you directly pass to
> the interpreter as a script, and any added files that get imported, as
> modules, or libraries.
> 
> Other times, people will refer to a simple program as a script, implying
> that all it does is invoke some standard library functions, or even run
> some external programs.  But when it gets more complex, it gradually
> turns into a  "real program."
> 
> 
> Why break up a monolith?
> 
> Several reasons.  If you factor the code into independent functions, and
> give them good names, then each piece of the program is easier to
> understand.  You will especially appreciate that if you come back to the
> code after doing something else for two weeks.  Similarly if somebody
> else has to take over your code, or maybe adapt it to a slightly
> different purpose.
> 
> Next, if it doesn't quite work, you can exercise the individual pieces
> independently, and narrow down the problem more quickly.
> 
> Next, if the progfram is slow, usually you can narrow it down to a few
> key functions that take most of the time.  You can write two versions of
> the same function, and do some careful timings to decide which one to
> use.
> 
> Next, some of those functions may be useful in the next program you
> write.  If you "reuse" the code by copy & paste, and find a problem in
> the new one, it's quite possible that the same problem may exist in your
> first program.  it's easier to bring those changes back if they're in a
> function than if they're in lines 14 through 71.
> 
> Finally, some of that reusable code may be worth moving to an external
> file, called a module.  Then the same copy can be literally shared
> between multiple projects.  This is how libraries were born, and you can
> write your own, eventually.
> 
> there are many other reasons, but some of them might not make sense to
> you yet.
> 
> 
> How do you break it up?
> 
> First, separate the classic parts that most scripts will have.  Put the
> imports at the top, along with a comment describing the whole progfram's
> purpose.  Next put the global variables, which should be few.  If there
> are any constants, use all UPPERCASE for their names.
> 
> Next, put the function and class definitions.  Notice that none of them
> will be called yet, so the order of execution isn't important to the
> compiler.  Each function needs a name, and you should use a name that
> makes sense to you.  Try to write functions that work at a single level
> of complexity, and do one complete operation.  Try not to do
> input/output in the same functions that do the computation.
> 
> And finally, put the actual mainline.  It could be as simple as a call
> to main(), but it may make more sense to you to put the calls to
> argument processing here, rather than in a main function.  By arguments
> here, i'm referring to the stuff you typed on the command line when youi
> invoked the script.  This part of the code is where you do the magic
> incantation:
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main()
> 
> 
> 
> When the number of functions gets unwieldy, it's time to move some of
> them to a new file.  They should be related, and should work at the same
> level of complexity.  And the file name should remind you of their
> purpose.  At that point, you add an import of that file to your main
> source script.  Congratulations, you've created a module.
> 
> One catch with writing a lengthy reply is that others have already given
> you good feedback.  Hopefully, mine will complement theirs.

Thank you, and thanks also to all the other respondents. I have 
programmed before in a number of other languages, but there is still 
plenty in this thread for me to digest.


From mickyhulse.lists at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 18:29:29 2011
From: mickyhulse.lists at gmail.com (Micky Hulse)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:29:29 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALri7Mng-EXmyWt0pD2OxjorMgy7oLo6zMJa45xOzWxUEgHAnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Last time I did this was using AS3. The format I used was DMS:

GPSLongitude: 122,42,47.79
GPSLongitudeRef: W
GPSLatitude: 45,30,30.390001198897014
GPSLatitudeRef: N

Here's the method:

<https://gist.github.com/1407126>

Not shown in above code: If West longitude or South latitude I would
make that DD (decimal degree) value negative.

Anyway, that was a fun learning experience! :)


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 18:49:18 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:49:18 -0700
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmOYaZW4pT-rH4c0GwwoM8C2wg81OhpoXfTKCvok0djQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Xah Lee <xahlee at gmail.com> wrote:
> fun programing exercise. Write a function ?latitude-longitude-
> decimalize?.
>
> It should take a string like this: ?"37?26?36.42?N 06?15?14.28?W"?.
> The return value should be a pair of numbers, like this: ?[37.44345
> -6.25396]?.
>
> Feel free to use perl, python, ruby, lisp, etc. I'll post a emacs lisp
> solution in a couple of days.

For Python 3:

import re

def latitude_longitude_decimalize(string):
    regex = r"""(\d+)\xb0(\d+)'([\d+.]+)"([NS])\s*(\d+)\xb0(\d+)'([\d+.]+)"([EW])"""
    match = re.match(regex, string)
    if not match:
        raise ValueError("Invalid input string: {0:r}".format(string))
    def decimalize(degrees, minutes, seconds, direction):
        decimal = int(degrees) + int(minutes) / 60 + float(seconds) / 3600
        if direction in 'SW':
            decimal = -decimal
        return decimal
    latitude = decimalize(*match.groups()[:4])
    longitude = decimalize(*match.groups()[4:8])
    return latitude, longitude


From thad at thadlabs.com  Tue Nov 29 18:50:33 2011
From: thad at thadlabs.com (Thad Floryan)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:50:33 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED56FC9.5020007@thadlabs.com>

On 11/29/2011 2:53 PM, Xah Lee wrote:
> fun programing exercise. Write a function ?latitude-longitude-
> decimalize?.
> 
> It should take a string like this: ?"37?26?36.42?N 06?15?14.28?W"?.
> The return value should be a pair of numbers, like this: ?[37.44345
> -6.25396]?.
> 
> Feel free to use perl, python, ruby, lisp, etc. I'll post a emacs lisp
> solution in a couple of days.

What a waste of time when the following works fine (probably Java):

<http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/DDDMMSS-decimal.html>



From Bruce.Nairn at kingcounty.gov  Tue Nov 29 19:12:54 2011
From: Bruce.Nairn at kingcounty.gov (Nairn, Bruce)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:12:54 -0800
Subject: pythoncom on Windows Server 2008
Message-ID: <D7105BF3D5AC0242BB16D6F3568DFEE206C732E7A1@MBX2.kc.kingcounty.lcl>

Hi,

  I'm trying to move some code to a Windows Server 2008 machine.  It runs on Windows 7 and XP, but fails on Windows Server 2008.  The python installation is seemingly identical (python 2.6.4, 32 bit).  The following replicates the problem:

import pythoncom
IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance ('OPC.Automation', None, pythoncom.CLSCTX_SERVER, pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)

On Windows 7 x64 or Windows XP x32:

this returns an PyIDispatch object

On Windows Server 2008 x64 this gives:

com_error: (-2147221005, 'Invalid class string', None, None)

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Bruce Nairn
King County Wastewater Treatment Division
201 S Jackson St., KSC-NR-0503
Seattle, WA, 98104-3855
206-263-3693
email: bruce.nairn at kingcounty.gov<mailto:bruce.nairn at kingcounty.gov>

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From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Nov 29 19:20:10 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:20:10 +0100
Subject: why is bytearray treated so inefficiently by pickle?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3082.1322446203.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.3082.1322446203.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed576bb$0$6908$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 28-11-2011 3:09, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Possibly. The two developers listed as particularly interested in pickle are
> 'alexandre.vassalotti,pitrou' (antoine), so if you do open a tracker issue, add them as
> nosy.
> 
> Take a look at http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3154/
> by Antoine Pitrou or forwary your message to him.
> 

Created a bug report + patches, http://bugs.python.org/issue13503
I've read the PEP, thanks, it was interesting. But I don't think my changes require a
new pickle protocol version bump.

Irmen


From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 19:34:23 2011
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:34:23 +1100
Subject: pythoncom on Windows Server 2008
In-Reply-To: <D7105BF3D5AC0242BB16D6F3568DFEE206C732E7A1@MBX2.kc.kingcounty.lcl>
References: <D7105BF3D5AC0242BB16D6F3568DFEE206C732E7A1@MBX2.kc.kingcounty.lcl>
Message-ID: <4ED57A0F.6080805@gmail.com>

On 30/11/2011 11:12 AM, Nairn, Bruce wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I?m trying to move some code to a Windows Server 2008 machine. It runs
> on Windows 7 and XP, but fails on Windows Server 2008. The python
> installation is seemingly identical (python 2.6.4, 32 bit). The
> following replicates the problem:
>
> import pythoncom
>
> IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance (?OPC.Automation?, None,
> pythoncom.CLSCTX_SERVER, pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
>
> On Windows 7 x64 or Windows XP x32:
>
> this returns an PyIDispatch object
>
> On Windows Server 2008 x64 this gives:
>
> com_error: (-2147221005, ?Invalid class string?, None, None)
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated!

The OPC.Automation object isn't installed on the Server 2008 box.  I'm 
not sure what this object is so can't advise on how to install it.  Note 
also that you will need the same "bittedness" of the object as Python 
itself has - ie, assuming a 32bit Python, you need the 32bit 
implementation of the COM object, or if a 64bit Python, you need the 
64bit COM object.  Note that both the 32 and 64bit versions of both will 
work fine on a 64bit version of Windows - you just need to make sure 
they match.

Mark


From jurgenex at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 29 20:14:23 2011
From: jurgenex at hotmail.com (Jürgen Exner)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:14:23 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<4ED56FC9.5020007@thadlabs.com>
Message-ID: <nq0bd71o9npm5ts9re3p77fq1jsgccbjou@4ax.com>

Thad Floryan <thad at thadlabs.com> wrote:
>On 11/29/2011 2:53 PM, Xah Lee wrote:

Please do not reply to the eternal troll

Thanks

jue


From thad at thadlabs.com  Tue Nov 29 21:10:17 2011
From: thad at thadlabs.com (Thad Floryan)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:10:17 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <nq0bd71o9npm5ts9re3p77fq1jsgccbjou@4ax.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<4ED56FC9.5020007@thadlabs.com>
	<nq0bd71o9npm5ts9re3p77fq1jsgccbjou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4ED59089.4000101@thadlabs.com>

On 11/29/2011 5:14 PM, J?rgen Exner wrote:
> Thad Floryan <thad at thadlabs.com> wrote:
>> On 11/29/2011 2:53 PM, Xah Lee wrote:
> 
> Please do not reply to the eternal troll
> 
> Thanks

Mea culpa, you're correct.  I responded only because the subject
is something with which I'm familiar, e.g., one of my posts from
1988 (23 years ago):

<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/d6c891302914fd84>
and
<http://groups.google.co.jp/group/sci.math/msg/d6c891302914fd84>

:-)


From iamforufriends at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 21:42:22 2011
From: iamforufriends at gmail.com (sweet girl)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:42:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: This girl want a boy friend for dating
Message-ID: <aab8efd4-9201-4c51-b02d-1afb9eded100@by4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This girl want a boy friend for dating


http://goo.gl/vPGGP

http://goo.gl/vPGGP

http://goo.gl/vPGGP

http://goo.gl/vPGGP


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Nov 29 22:30:38 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:30:38 +1100
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20111130033038.GA19431@cskk.homeip.net>

On 29Nov2011 13:37, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
| On 11/28/11 06:27, Robert Kern wrote:
[...]
| >I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for
| >Y/N answers, too. It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some
| >questions requiring an enter and some not. It can be
| >unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.
| 
| After playing with it, allowing for a default Y/N value seems to
| make it a one-key selection via <enter>, but allow for
| less-surprising behavior as you detail.

As a matter of good practice, I like default responses (especially
yes/no ones) to default to the safer/more-conservative choice, and
generally to default to "no", with the question suitably framed so that
"no" means "safer/more-conservative".

In this way an accidental unthinking <enter> has less chance of doing
damage. What that means depends on context, but I hope you take the point.

(Oh yes, traditionally the default is also capitalised to be evident.)

Example:

  Remove your database now? (y/N)

I would want <enter> to mean "no" here, usually.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

There are old climbers, and there are bold climbers; but there are no old
bold climbers.


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Subject: XXX HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
Message-ID: <6118c841-8e22-4601-9102-bdac88037cac@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 23:49:29 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:49:29 +1100
Subject: Converting MS Access DB to Postgres or MySQL for ORM support with
	SQLalchemy
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGc15iMCYD7gx1eHHmZh0i0P1fRDTqHAVPHv6RpQW1yvtg@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon,

I was recently shown that my client runs MS Access everywhere, rather
than a "real" database. There are many features they would be missing
that something like a django frontend would provide.

So I would like to move them to Postgres or MySQL (since MS Access
support was been dropped after 0.4).

But I would also like to move there schema &etc to ORM, for easy
editing with SQLalchemy (or similar).

What approach would you recommend?

Thanks for all suggestions,

Alec Taylor


From guojunquan at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 01:20:30 2011
From: guojunquan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6YOt5Yab5p2D?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:20:30 +0800
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
Message-ID: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Good after
    I have a string  liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert
it to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
Thanks.


-- 
???
???????????????
guojunquan{at}gmail.com
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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 01:24:59 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:24:59 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGdrhgirPyH_KsGuB8_RpixXDk_NNAD-7Va4_mdtW8gAbQ@mail.gmail.com>

import json

s = json.dumps([1, 2, 3, 4])
# '[1, 2, 3, 4]'
l = json.loads(s)
# [1, 2, 3, 4]

2011/11/30 ??? <guojunquan at gmail.com>:
> Good after
>     I have a string  liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert
> it to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> ???
> ???????????????
> guojunquan{at}gmail.com
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 01:54:22 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:54:22 -0500
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
> Good after
> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?

The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
 >>> eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']

But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is 
that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised 
as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would 
not want to eval
   "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your 
operating system.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 02:09:48 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:09:48 +0000
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1b4hAk10D3-UL3X0zkTQ+xZzkDp2a-Ww2kEwvwagz3vgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 30, 2011 6:21 AM, "???" <guojunquan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good after
>     I have a string  liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need
convert it to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
> Thanks.
>

Look up the json module.

-- 
Arnaud
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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 02:23:08 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:23:08 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6cK1b4hAk10D3-UL3X0zkTQ+xZzkDp2a-Ww2kEwvwagz3vgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ6cK1b4hAk10D3-UL3X0zkTQ+xZzkDp2a-Ww2kEwvwagz3vgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGfEc7=tnkiDhFkbKT0kfutQ6sGPh3QKCxhptdqZAM+OAA@mail.gmail.com>

Arnaud: Already showed that solution

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 30, 2011 6:21 AM, "???" <guojunquan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good after
>> ? ? I have a string ?liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert
>> it to a list like list =?["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> Look up the json module.
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com  Wed Nov 30 03:50:19 2011
From: Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com (Shambhu Rajak)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:50:19 +0000
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CAB10@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>

Collins Congratulations for your first step into Python Programming.
You can call them script or programs(not necessarily but depends on what your coding for).
Yaa..it's always a good practice to call it through main(), but it doesn't really matter you 
can call the method in way....  

Regards,
Shambhu

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Higwell [mailto:colinh at somewhere.invalid] 
Sent: 30/11/2011 1:37 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice

Hi,

I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours), 
so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them 
scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results 
intended.

However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning 
and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems 
to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn 
calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the 
work. 

Is that standard best practice?

Thanks





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 03:58:08 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:58:08 +0100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
>> Good after
>> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
>> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
> 
> The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
>  >>> eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
> 
> But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is
> that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised
> as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would
> not want to eval
>    "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
> where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your
> operating system.

You can avoid these problems with ast.literal_eval():

literal_eval(node_or_string)
    Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
    expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the
    following Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists,
    dicts, booleans, and None.




From jasonveldicott at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 04:34:23 2011
From: jasonveldicott at gmail.com (Jason Veldicott)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:34:23 +1100
Subject: Debug python from DLL callback?
Message-ID: <CAK4NeTHE57nj_Ui-pAe_4KW+21v_vEh00+tixwURybsWiRw21A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone here might be able to suggest if there is a way of
switching over from python execution into debug mode of an IDE, from python
code that is executed as a callback from a C++ DLL?

Thanks

Jason
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From fabiofz at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 04:48:19 2011
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:48:19 -0200
Subject: Debug python from DLL callback?
In-Reply-To: <CAK4NeTHE57nj_Ui-pAe_4KW+21v_vEh00+tixwURybsWiRw21A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK4NeTHE57nj_Ui-pAe_4KW+21v_vEh00+tixwURybsWiRw21A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANXBEFrKCmu5TfB8zCny71jrU0rtpAXymYq287z4Ji9WZ-0VKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Jason Veldicott
<jasonveldicott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if anyone here might be able to suggest if there is a way of
> switching over from python execution into debug mode of an IDE, from python
> code that is executed as a callback from a C++ DLL?
>

Use a remote debugger: http://pydev.org/manual_adv_remote_debugger.html

Cheers,

Fabio


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 05:05:52 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:05:52 +0000
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <20111130033038.GA19431@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>
	<20111130033038.GA19431@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <jb4v61$dtu$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/11 3:30 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 29Nov2011 13:37, Tim Chase<python.list at tim.thechases.com>  wrote:
> | On 11/28/11 06:27, Robert Kern wrote:
> [...]
> |>I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for
> |>Y/N answers, too. It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some
> |>questions requiring an enter and some not. It can be
> |>unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.
> |
> | After playing with it, allowing for a default Y/N value seems to
> | make it a one-key selection via<enter>, but allow for
> | less-surprising behavior as you detail.
>
> As a matter of good practice, I like default responses (especially
> yes/no ones) to default to the safer/more-conservative choice, and
> generally to default to "no", with the question suitably framed so that
> "no" means "safer/more-conservative".
>
> In this way an accidental unthinking<enter>  has less chance of doing
> damage. What that means depends on context, but I hope you take the point.
>
> (Oh yes, traditionally the default is also capitalised to be evident.)
>
> Example:
>
>    Remove your database now? (y/N)
>
> I would want<enter>  to mean "no" here, usually.

I would also add that if you can, try to make it such that the user can go back 
and change their mind before actually doing anything. In the "wizard" scenario 
that the OP describes, it is frequently the case that you are going to ask a 
number of questions first before actually doing anything rather than doing 
something after each question. I don't think that letting the user go back a 
previous question is particularly common, and every interface for it that I can 
think of off the top of my head seems awkward, but I think it deserves some 
thought. At the very least, what you can do is collect all of the answers, show 
them to the user at the end and ask if there is anything the user wants to 
change before continuing.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From ben.richardson at gmx.com  Wed Nov 30 05:42:26 2011
From: ben.richardson at gmx.com (Ben Richardson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:42:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python crashes on segmentation error
Message-ID: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

Python crashes every time i run the following command?

>>> import cv
Segmentation fault: 11

Python quit unexpectedly - any help would be greatly appreciated -
thankyou in advance :)

Here is crash report?


Process:         Python [276]
Path:            /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
Identifier:      Python
Version:         ??? (???)
Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  bash [271]

Date/Time:       2011-11-30 21:40:17.798 +1100
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.7.2 (11C74)
Report Version:  9

Interval Since Last Report:          34062 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:           3
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   3
Anonymous UUID:                      559858AC-B741-4FB9-842D-
C0E1D157BDFF

Crashed Thread:  0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000000

VM Regions Near 0:
-->
    __TEXT                 0000000100000000-0000000100001000 [    4K]
r-x/rwx SM=COW  /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python

Application Specific Information:
objc[276]: garbage collection is OFF

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   ???                           	000000000000000000 0 + 0
1   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7885 PyImport_Import
+ 121
2   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7a1e
PyImport_ImportModule + 32
3   cv.so                         	0x00000001004f5082 initcv + 18
4   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dc071
_PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 177
5   org.python.python             	0x00000001000da33f import_submodule
+ 383
6   org.python.python             	0x00000001000da84a load_next + 234
7   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dab5b
PyImport_ImportModuleLevel + 363
8   org.python.python             	0x00000001000b9483
builtin___import__ + 131
9   org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
10  org.python.python             	0x00000001000ba5f7
PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords + 87
11  org.python.python             	0x00000001000bec78
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 13256
12  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
13  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2e46 PyEval_EvalCode
+ 54
14  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e769c
PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags + 380
15  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e78fe
PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags + 78
16  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e80e1
PyRun_AnyFileExFlags + 161
17  org.python.python             	0x00000001000fe77c Py_Main + 2940
18  org.python.python             	0x0000000100000f14 0x100000000 +
3860

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):
  rax: 0x0000000100781870  rbx: 0x00000001019b3030  rcx:
0x00007fff5fbfe968  rdx: 0x0000000000000000
  rdi: 0x0000000000000000  rsi: 0x00000001006f5ebc  rbp:
0x00007fff5fbfea60  rsp: 0x00007fff5fbfea58
   r8: 0x0800000000000100   r9: 0x2000000000000200  r10:
0x0000000000000000  r11: 0x00000001019b6054
  r12: 0x0000000000000000  r13: 0x0000000000000000  r14:
0x00000001019b3030  r15: 0x00007fff5fbfeb80
  rip: 0x0000000000000000  rfl: 0x0000000000010206  cr2:
0x0000000000000000
Logical CPU: 1

Binary Images:
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Python
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<2D1D8488-EC5F-3229-B983-CFDE0BB37586> /System/Library/Frameworks/
OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLImage.dylib
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Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync
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com.apple.print.framework.PrintCore (7.1 - 366.1)
<3F140DEB-9F87-3672-97CC-F983752581AC> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore
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com.apple.CoreServices.OSServices (478.29 - 478.29) <B487110E-
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CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/
Versions/A/OSServices
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<C34F6D88-187F-33DC-8A68-C0C9D1FA36DF> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/
libBLAS.dylib
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358.12) <33B1FA75-7970-3751-9DCC-FF809D3E1FA2> /System/Library/
Frameworks/CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData
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com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore (960.18 - 960.18)
<6020C3FB-6125-3EAE-A55D-1E77E38BEDEA> /System/Library/Frameworks/
CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/
Versions/A/CarbonCore
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<4F2E1055-2207-340B-BB45-E4F16171EE0D> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/
libLAPACK.dylib
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system/libsystem_c.dylib
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(2.1 - 71) <2ADD7C5B-C8C8-3CA8-8A5C-8FB1C7F6A549> /System/Library/
PrivateFrameworks/CoreSymbolication.framework/Versions/A/
CoreSymbolication
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com.apple.ApplicationServices.ATS (317.5.0 - ???)
<FE629F2D-6BC0-3A58-9844-D8B9A6808A00> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/
Versions/A/ATS
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(1.600.0 - ???) <A9F2451E-6F60-350E-A6E5-539669B53074> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics
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system/liblaunch.dylib
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libstdc++.6.dylib
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Cocoa.framework/Versions/A/Cocoa
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<E37A515C-4C10-3102-8146-C0FBD458F8CF> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Carbon
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(41 - 41) <03F3FA8F-8D2A-3AB6-A8E3-40B001116339> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/
ApplicationServices
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libcrypto.0.9.8.dylib
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164.1) <F7972630-F696-3FC5-9FCF-A6E1C8771078> /System/Library/
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(53.0.0 - compatibility 1.0.0) <8BCA214A-8992-34B2-A8B9-B74DEACA1869> /
usr/lib/system/libsystem_blocks.dylib
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(4.0.1 - 4.0.1) <7966E3BE-376B-371A-A21D-9BD763C0BAE7> /System/Library/
Frameworks/CoreAudio.framework/Versions/A/CoreAudio
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(3.1.1 - 3.1.1) <13E549F8-5BD6-3BAE-8C33-1D0BD269C081> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO
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system/libcache.dylib
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libsystem_network.dylib
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<9A2C9736-DA10-367A-B376-2C7A584E6C7A> /System/Library/Frameworks/
GSS.framework/Versions/A/GSS
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system/libunc.dylib
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Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit
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libicucore.A.dylib
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system/libmacho.dylib
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Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Versions/A/
SystemConfiguration
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- ???) <B9A53808-C97E-3293-9C33-1EA9D4E83EC8> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
ATS.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libFontParser.dylib
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- ???) <BAB8B422-7047-3D2D-8E0A-13FCF153E4E7> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices
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Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
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Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libvMisc.dylib
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libsystem_info.dylib
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libc++.1.dylib
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com.apple.speech.synthesis.framework (4.0.74 - 4.0.74)
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ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis
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Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libCoreVMClient.dylib
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Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage
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com.apple.TrustEvaluationAgent (2.0 - 1) <1F31CAFF-
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com.apple.ScalableUserInterface (1.0 - 1) <1873D7BE-2272-31A1-8F85-
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A/Frameworks/ScalableUserInterface.framework/Versions/A/
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system/libdyld.dylib
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libDiagnosticMessagesClient.dylib (??? - ???) <3DCF577B-F126-302B-
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Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
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libsystem_dnssd.dylib
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    0x7fff92697000 -     0x7fff927f0fff
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    0x7fff957cf000 -     0x7fff957d4fff  libGIF.dylib (??? - ???)
<393E2DB5-9479-39A6-A75A-B5F20B852532> /System/Library/Frameworks/
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    0x7fff963d9000 -     0x7fff963f0fff
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<F21C79C0-4B5A-3645-81A6-74F8EFA900CE> /System/Library/
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External Modification Summary:
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  Calls made by this process:
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    thread_create: 0
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  Calls made by all processes on this machine:
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    thread_create: 1
    thread_set_state: 0

VM Region Summary:
ReadOnly portion of Libraries: Total=169.5M resident=106.9M(63%)
swapped_out_or_unallocated=62.6M(37%)
Writable regions: Total=19.8M written=2360K(12%) resident=3028K(15%)
swapped_out=0K(0%) unallocated=16.8M(85%)

REGION TYPE                      VIRTUAL
===========                      =======
MALLOC                             10.6M
MALLOC guard page                    16K
STACK GUARD                        56.0M
Stack                              8192K
__CI_BITMAP                          80K
__DATA                             14.2M
__IMAGE                            1256K
__LINKEDIT                         49.4M
__TEXT                            120.0M
__UNICODE                           544K
shared memory                        12K
===========                      =======
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Model: MacBook5,1, BootROM MB51.007D.B03, 2 processors, Intel Core 2
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USB Device: Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad, apple_vendor_id,
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From pedro.h.souto at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 06:36:15 2011
From: pedro.h.souto at gmail.com (Pedro Henrique G. Souto)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:36:15 -0200
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CAB10@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
	<408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CAB10@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6152F.3020307@gmail.com>

On 30/11/2011 06:50, Shambhu Rajak wrote:
> Collins Congratulations for your first step into Python Programming.
> You can call them script or programs(not necessarily but depends on what your coding for).
> Yaa..it's always a good practice to call it through main(), but it doesn't really matter you
> can call the method in way....
>
> Regards,
> Shambhu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colin Higwell [mailto:colinh at somewhere.invalid]
> Sent: 30/11/2011 1:37 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
>
> Hi,
>
> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours),
> so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them
> scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results
> intended.
>
> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.
>
> Is that standard best practice?
>
> Thanks

Congratulations on becoming a Pythonist!

Like Shambhu said, it doesn't matter where do you put the code, but is 
interesting to have a main() function when you have a program, and you 
want to differentiate if it is running directly (i.e. python program.py) 
or if it is running as a  module, imported by other program (i.e. import 
program).

To do so, you do this:

main():
     # blablabla

if __name__ == '__main__':
     main()


If the program is running directly, the variable __name__ will be 
'__main__', if not, __name__ will be the name of the module ('program', 
in this case).

Att;
Pedro


From durumdara at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 07:08:13 2011
From: durumdara at gmail.com (durumdara)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 04:08:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3 - xml - crlf handling problem
Message-ID: <3aae0b18-a194-444f-a2fc-da156204bd95@20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

As I see that XML parsing is "wrong" in Python.

I must use predefined XML files, parsing them, extending them, and
produce some result.

But as I see that in Windows this is working wrong.

When the predefined XMLs are "formatted" (prettied) with CRLFs, then
the parser keeps these plus LF characters (not handle the logic that
CR = LF = CRLF), and it is appearing in the new result too.

    xo = parse('test_original.xml')
    de = xo.documentElement
    de.setAttribute('b', "2")
    b = xo.toxml('utf-8')
    f = open('test_original2.xml', 'wb')
    f.write(b)
    f.close()

And: if I used text elements, this can extend the information with
plus characters and make wrong xml...

I can use only "myowngenerated", and not prettied xmls because of this
problem!

Is this normal?

Thanks for your read:
   dd


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 07:32:39 2011
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:32:39 -0500
Subject: order independent hash?
Message-ID: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>

I like to hash a list of words (actually, the command line args of my program) 
in such a way that different words will create different hash, but not sensitive 
to the order of the words.  Any ideas?



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Nov 30 07:38:14 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:38:14 +0000
Subject: order independent hash?
In-Reply-To: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED623B6.602@timgolden.me.uk>

On 30/11/2011 12:32, Neal Becker wrote:
> I like to hash a list of words (actually, the command line args of my program)
> in such a way that different words will create different hash, but not sensitive
> to the order of the words.  Any ideas?

How about?

   hash (frozenset ("hello world".split ()))

TJG


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 07:47:13 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:47:13 +0100
Subject: order independent hash?
References: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb58k9$il7$1@dough.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:

> I like to hash a list of words (actually, the command line args of my
> program) in such a way that different words will create different hash,
> but not sensitive to the order of the words.  Any ideas?

You mean a typical python hash value which would be /likely/ to differ for 
different lists and /guaranteed/ to be equal for equal lists is not good 
enough? Because that would be easy:

args = sys.argv[1:]
hash(tuple(sorted(args))) # consider duplicate args
hash(frozenset(args)) # ignore duplicate args



From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 30 07:58:41 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:58:41 +0100
Subject: Python crashes on segmentation error
In-Reply-To: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jb59a1$nic$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 30.11.2011 11:42, schrieb Ben Richardson:
> Python crashes every time i run the following command?
> 
>>>> import cv
> Segmentation fault: 11
> 
> Python quit unexpectedly - any help would be greatly appreciated -
> thankyou in advance :)
> 
> Here is crash report?
[...]
> 
> Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
> 0   ???                           	000000000000000000 0 + 0
> 1   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7885 PyImport_Import
> + 121
> 2   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7a1e
> PyImport_ImportModule + 32
> 3   cv.so                         	0x00000001004f5082 initcv + 18
> 4   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dc071
> _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 177

It looks like you have a faulty 3rd party library with an extension
module called cv.so that is causing the segfault. The segfault occurs
either inside or during the import of the cv module. initcv() is the
init function of the cv module that is called automatically during the
import.

Christian



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Nov 30 08:47:59 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:47:59 +0100
Subject: Python 3 - xml - crlf handling problem
In-Reply-To: <3aae0b18-a194-444f-a2fc-da156204bd95@20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <3aae0b18-a194-444f-a2fc-da156204bd95@20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jb5c6f$dmn$1@dough.gmane.org>

durumdara, 30.11.2011 13:08:
> As I see that XML parsing is "wrong" in Python.

You didn't say what you are using for parsing, but from your example, it 
appears likely that you are using the xml.dom.minidom module.


> I must use predefined XML files, parsing them, extending them, and
> produce some result.
>
> But as I see that in Windows this is working wrong.
>
> When the predefined XMLs are "formatted" (prettied) with CRLFs, then
> the parser keeps these plus LF characters (not handle the logic that
> CR = LF = CRLF), and it is appearing in the new result too.

I assume that you are referring to XML's newline normalisation algorithm? 
That should normally be handled by the parser, which, in the case of 
minidom, is usually expat. And I seriously doubt that expat has a problem 
with something as basic as newline normalisation.

Did you verify that the newlines are really not being converted by the 
parser? From your example, I can only see that you are serialising the XML 
tree back into a file, which may or may not alter the line endings by 
itself. Instead, take a look at the text content in the tree right after 
parsing to see how line endings look at that level.


>      xo = parse('test_original.xml')
>      de = xo.documentElement
>      de.setAttribute('b', "2")
>      b = xo.toxml('utf-8')
>      f = open('test_original2.xml', 'wb')
>      f.write(b)
>      f.close()

This doesn't do any pretty printing, though, in case that's what you were 
really after (which appears likely according to your comments).


> And: if I used text elements, this can extend the information with
> plus characters and make wrong xml...

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence.


> I can use only "myowngenerated", and not prettied xmls because of this
> problem!

Then what is the actual problem? Do you get an error somewhere? And if so, 
could you paste the exact error message and describe what you do to produce 
it? The mere fact that the line endings use the normal platform specific 
representation doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Stefan



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 09:55:10 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting MS Access DB to Postgres or MySQL for ORM support with
	SQLalchemy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7671543.1221.1322664911105.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqny18>

You can read data using win32com (ADODB?) and then write it to the desired database using the right package (psycopg2 ...).

See example for reading data at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2006-March/004420.html


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 09:55:10 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting MS Access DB to Postgres or MySQL for ORM support with
	SQLalchemy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7671543.1221.1322664911105.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqny18>

You can read data using win32com (ADODB?) and then write it to the desired database using the right package (psycopg2 ...).

See example for reading data at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2006-March/004420.html


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 10:19:31 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 02:19:31 +1100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>

Good evening,

I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.

How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
this in C or C++?

Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI

Thanks for all suggestions,

Alec Taylor


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 10:38:58 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Nov 2011 15:38:58 GMT
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
References: <mailman.3160.1322666375.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed64e12$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:19:31 +1100, Alec Taylor wrote:

> Good evening,
> 
> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
> advantages.
> 
> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing this
> in C or C++?
> 
> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png

Care to translate it into English?

Then translate the English into pseudo-code. And the pseudo-code into 
Python. Then, if and only if the Python version is too slow, translate it 
into C. And now you are done!



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 11:00:55 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:00:55 +0100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb5jvc$c3d$1@dough.gmane.org>

Alec Taylor wrote:

> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
> advantages.
> 
> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
> this in C or C++?
> 
> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
> 
> Thanks for all suggestions,

I don't know if that helps you with your project but Python already 
understands some hexavigesimal:

>>> int("fool", 26)
280509




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 11:18:39 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:18:39 -0700
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Good evening,
>
> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>
> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
> this in C or C++?
>
> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>
> Thanks for all suggestions,

So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
are ordered like this?

0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,

0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
...,
9A, 9B, ..., 9P,

A0, A1, ..., A9,
B0, B1, ..., B9,
...,
P0, P1, ..., P9

And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 11:26:53 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 03:26:53 +1100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good evening,
>>
>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>>
>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>> this in C or C++?
>>
>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>
>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>
> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
> are ordered like this?
>
> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>
> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
> ...,
> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>
> A0, A1, ..., A9,
> B0, B1, ..., B9,
> ...,
> P0, P1, ..., P9
>
> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?

To put it simply:

I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
(unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
need to be met)

and I want addition only for incrementing the element.

Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
P0A)

Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Alec Taylor


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 12:08:24 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:08:24 -0500
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <4ed64e12$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.3160.1322666375.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed64e12$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLki7rZYhEp2w5FZcmUX0BHjf6pRBFGsG9Jn1PkZFWOVQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Care to translate it into English?
>
> Then translate the English into pseudo-code. And the pseudo-code into
> Python. Then, if and only if the Python version is too slow, translate it
> into C. And now you are done!

Mathematical English is pseudocode. Related: all theorems are also
programs and vice versa.



That said, I don't understand the notation either. What's \mathbb{M}?
What does it mean ti be "in" some natural number n? (Are you using a
set theoretic definition of natural numbers: e.g. x in y iff x <= y ?)

Devin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:19:31 +1100, Alec Taylor wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
>> advantages.
>>
>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing this
>> in C or C++?
>>
>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>
> Care to translate it into English?
>
> Then translate the English into pseudo-code. And the pseudo-code into
> Python. Then, if and only if the Python version is too slow, translate it
> into C. And now you are done!
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From egg1nog at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 12:10:09 2011
From: egg1nog at gmail.com (Michael Hennebry)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:10:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: tp_new, tp_alloc, tp_init
Message-ID: <f0bb1447-07b2-4f78-a1af-c702ff2ca31a@da3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

I've been reading about writing extension types in C and am rather
fuzzy about the relationship between tp_new, tp_alloc and tp_init.
Most especially, why tp_new? It seems to me that tp_alloc and tp_init
would be sufficient.

Most of my reading has been in the Noddy and Shoddy portions of
docs.python.,org .


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 13:03:35 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:03:35 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED4E35E.6090405@gmail.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
	<mailman.3121.1322560291.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4ED4E35E.6090405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED66FF7.1030104@gmail.com>

Another thing about the AST, I am having fun trying to for example list 
out all
the unused imports.

I have already a visitor which works quite nicely I think, but now I 
would like
to get a way to find all the unused imports, so I need more visitors that
find out all the used names.

I didn't find too much documentation about these kind of things, so any
suggestions on how to approach?

Pylint and snakefood have similar code, but they use the old "compiler" 
module,
so it's not really helpful.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 13:38:45 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:38:45 -0700
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkD8J+e8KOCJTRb2rUQBeJ1Yy_e29n5VH8CTxDngQfErw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>>>
>>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>>> this in C or C++?
>>>
>>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>>
>>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>>
>> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
>> are ordered like this?
>>
>> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>>
>> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
>> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
>> ...,
>> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>>
>> A0, A1, ..., A9,
>> B0, B1, ..., B9,
>> ...,
>> P0, P1, ..., P9
>>
>> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?
>
> To put it simply:
>
> I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
> least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
> (unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
> need to be met)
>
> and I want addition only for incrementing the element.
>
> Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
> unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
> P0A)
>
> Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.

Okay, that's much clearer.  If you don't actually care about the
ordinal value of each element, only about incrementing them, then I
suggest implementing increment as follows:

1. Convert the string to an int using the regular base-26 conversion
with the int() built-in.
2. In a loop, add 1 to the value.
3. Convert the value back to a string using the same base-26
conversion.  I don't know of a built-in that does this, so you'll need
to write your own, which isn't too difficult.
4. Check whether the new string meets all your constraints.  If it
does, return it.  If not, go back to 2. and try again with the next
integer.

At most it will take 17 iterations to find a valid value, but most of
the time the first value tried will be valid.

I assume you're already aware that with 3 digits you'll only have
12480 possible unique IDs using this scheme?  It just doesn't seem
like very many to me.

Cheers,
Ian


From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Wed Nov 30 13:55:05 2011
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:55:05 +0100
Subject: How to get a correct entry in the menu for a Python application on
	Mac OS X
Message-ID: <jb5u69$9i9$1@online.de>

Hello,

I am fairly new to Mac OS X and would like to know, what I have to do to 
make my Python application show the correct name in the menu bar. What 
did I do so far. I created an application package containing the .plist 
file with correct entries and a shell script, that starts the correct 
Python interpreter with the the main script. The menu bar just shows 
Python instead of the name of my application. If you are interested the 
application can be found via http://eric-ide.python-projects.org.


Regards,
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 14:00:38 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 06:00:38 +1100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkD8J+e8KOCJTRb2rUQBeJ1Yy_e29n5VH8CTxDngQfErw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkD8J+e8KOCJTRb2rUQBeJ1Yy_e29n5VH8CTxDngQfErw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGcsR4QF26dcGXHfcBib5EPumahUNgdgaa28XO4=Y-88pw@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent, I'll see if I can implement that.

I was thinking more base data-type, but that seems impossible in python.

17 iterations (rarghh!)

But yeah, I'll try that, thanks.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Good evening,
>>>>
>>>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>>>>
>>>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>>>> this in C or C++?
>>>>
>>>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>>>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>>>
>>> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
>>> are ordered like this?
>>>
>>> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>>>
>>> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
>>> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
>>> ...,
>>> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>>>
>>> A0, A1, ..., A9,
>>> B0, B1, ..., B9,
>>> ...,
>>> P0, P1, ..., P9
>>>
>>> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?
>>
>> To put it simply:
>>
>> I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
>> least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
>> (unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
>> need to be met)
>>
>> and I want addition only for incrementing the element.
>>
>> Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
>> unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
>> P0A)
>>
>> Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.
>
> Okay, that's much clearer. ?If you don't actually care about the
> ordinal value of each element, only about incrementing them, then I
> suggest implementing increment as follows:
>
> 1. Convert the string to an int using the regular base-26 conversion
> with the int() built-in.
> 2. In a loop, add 1 to the value.
> 3. Convert the value back to a string using the same base-26
> conversion. ?I don't know of a built-in that does this, so you'll need
> to write your own, which isn't too difficult.
> 4. Check whether the new string meets all your constraints. ?If it
> does, return it. ?If not, go back to 2. and try again with the next
> integer.
>
> At most it will take 17 iterations to find a valid value, but most of
> the time the first value tried will be valid.
>
> I assume you're already aware that with 3 digits you'll only have
> 12480 possible unique IDs using this scheme? ?It just doesn't seem
> like very many to me.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 14:05:50 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:05:50 +0100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb5uq4$4gq$1@dough.gmane.org>

Alec Taylor wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
>>> advantages.
>>>
>>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>>> this in C or C++?
>>>
>>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>>
>>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>>
>> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
>> are ordered like this?
>>
>> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>>
>> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
>> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
>> ...,
>> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>>
>> A0, A1, ..., A9,
>> B0, B1, ..., B9,
>> ...,
>> P0, P1, ..., P9
>>
>> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2
>> digits?
> 
> To put it simply:
> 
> I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
> least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
> (unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
> need to be met)
> 
> and I want addition only for incrementing the element.
> 
> Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
> unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
> P0A)
> 
> Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.

Maybe you don't need a class if you produce the ids with a generator like 
so:

>>> from itertools import product
>>> def hxv(n):
...     letters = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP"
...     digits = "0123456789"
...     both = digits + letters
...     if n == 1:
...         for x in both:
...             yield x
...     else:
...         for x in product(*[both]*n):
...             s = "".join(x)
...             if not s.isdigit() and not s.isalpha():
...                 yield s
...
>>> ids = hxv(3)
>>> next(ids)
'00A'
>>> next(ids)
'00B'
>>> for i, x in enumerate(hxv(3)): pass
...
>>> i, x
(12479, 'PP9')




From nospam at torek.net  Wed Nov 30 14:29:31 2011
From: nospam at torek.net (Chris Torek)
Date: 30 Nov 2011 19:29:31 GMT
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<mailman.2711.1321299276.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jb606r0fpk@news2.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.2711.1321299276.27778.python-list at python.org>
Christian Heimes  <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
>Am 14.11.2011 19:28, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
>> Thanks! This is probably the most practical option I can go.
>> 
>> I've just tested: the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will indeed
>> open >32k files on FreeBSD. It also creates the files much faster.
>> The old, non-monkey-patched version was getting slower and
>> slower as more files were opened/created ..
>
>I wonder what's causing the O(n^2) behavior. Is it the old file type or
>BSD's fopen() fault?

It is code in libc.  My old stdio (still in use on FreeBSD) was
never designed to be used in situations with more than roughly 256
file descriptors -- hence the "short" in the file number field.
(The OS used to be full of other places that kept the maximum
allowable file descriptor fairly small, such as the on-stack copies
of fd_set objects in select() calls.)

You will want to redesign the code that finds or creates a free
"FILE" object, and probably some of the things that work with
line-buffered FILEs (specifically calls to _fwalk() when reading
from a line-buffered stream).
-- 
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
Intel require I note that my opinions are not those of WRS or Intel
Salt Lake City, UT, USA (40?39.22'N, 111?50.29'W)  +1 801 277 2603
email: gmail (figure it out)      http://web.torek.net/torek/index.html


From tdldev at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 15:30:48 2011
From: tdldev at gmail.com (Verde Denim)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:30:48 -0500
Subject: Py and SQL
Message-ID: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>

All
I have a sql script that I've included in a simple Py file that gives an
error in the SQL. The problem is that the SQL code executes correctly in a
database IDE environment (in this case ora developer). So, I'm concluding
that I'm doing something amiss in the Py code. Does anyone see why this
code would return a 'missing expression' sql error?
Essentially, the code should start, ask for a privilege, and then collect
the priv, role, and user data. Any input is appreciated.

#!/bin/bash
import time
import cx_Oracle

dbConn = cx_Oracle.connect('juser', 'pass', '1.2.3.4:/orcl:DEDICATED',
             cclass = "ABC", purity = cx_Oracle.ATTR_PURITY_SELF)

pStart = time.time()

dbVersion = dbConn.version.split(".")

majVer = dbVersion[0]

print "Oracle Version: %s" %(majVer)
print "Full Version: %s" %(dbConn.version)

dbCursor1 = dbConn.cursor()
dbCursor1.execute('select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles and
Users" from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map where name
like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select granted_role p, grantee c
from dba_role_privs union select privilege p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs)
start with p is null connect by p = prior c')
dbRowResult = dbCursor1.fetchall()
for dbRow in dbRowResult:
    print dbRow

dbCursor1.close()

pElapsed = (time.time() - pStart)

print pElapsed, " seconds"

dbConn.close()
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From rodperson at rodperson.com  Wed Nov 30 15:37:44 2011
From: rodperson at rodperson.com (Rod Person)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:37:44 -0500
Subject: Py and SQL
In-Reply-To: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111130153744.0000017c@unknown>

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:30:48 -0500
Verde Denim <tdldev at gmail.com> wrote:

> All
> I have a sql script that I've included in a simple Py file that gives
> an error in the SQL. The problem is that the SQL code executes
> correctly in a database IDE environment (in this case ora developer).
> So, I'm concluding that I'm doing something amiss in the Py code.
> Does anyone see why this code would return a 'missing expression' sql
> error? Essentially, the code should start, ask for a privilege, and
> then collect the priv, role, and user data. Any input is appreciated.
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> import time
> import cx_Oracle
> 
> dbConn = cx_Oracle.connect('juser', 'pass', '1.2.3.4:/orcl:DEDICATED',
>              cclass = "ABC", purity = cx_Oracle.ATTR_PURITY_SELF)
> 
> pStart = time.time()
> 
> dbVersion = dbConn.version.split(".")
> 
> majVer = dbVersion[0]
> 
> print "Oracle Version: %s" %(majVer)
> print "Full Version: %s" %(dbConn.version)
> 
> dbCursor1 = dbConn.cursor()
> dbCursor1.execute('select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles
> and Users" from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map
> where name like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select
> granted_role p, grantee c from dba_role_privs union select privilege
> p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs) start with p is null connect by p =
> prior c') dbRowResult = dbCursor1.fetchall()
> for dbRow in dbRowResult:
>     print dbRow
> 

Try changing the wrapping ' ' to " " and the inside double qoutes to
single, like this

dbCursor1.execute("select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c 'Privilege, Roles
and Users' from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map
where name like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select
granted_role p, grantee c from dba_role_privs union select privilege
p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs) start with p is null connect by p =
prior c")


-- 
Rod
The club is like groceries, and I jus bag a bi@$&!
? Santonio Holmes on the Twitter


From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:03:22 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:03:22 -0600
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
Message-ID: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>

I've done some research, but I'm not sure what's most appropriate for my
situation. What I want to do is have a long running process that spawns
processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates
with them. The children can be spawned at any time and communicate at
any time. Being able to communicate with non-local processes would be
nice, but is not necessary. The implementation needs to be
cross-platform, but child processes will use the same OS as the parent
during runtime.
I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
just strings or possibly tuples/lists. I'd rather not go outside the
standard library (but I'd consider it). I don't need to worry about
compatibility with older Python versions; if it only works with Python
3.2, that's not a problem.
I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.

-- 
CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:22:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3519788.203.1322688146008.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqfv40>

There are two different problems. One is the medium to pass messages, sockets are good but there are other options and depends on your requirement you need to pick the best one.
The other is serialization format, here you have marshal, pickle, JSON, XML and more.

For me JSON over sockets works well in the past. It has the nice property that you can read messages without need for a special decoder (like in the case of marshal/pickle).


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:22:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3519788.203.1322688146008.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqfv40>

There are two different problems. One is the medium to pass messages, sockets are good but there are other options and depends on your requirement you need to pick the best one.
The other is serialization format, here you have marshal, pickle, JSON, XML and more.

For me JSON over sockets works well in the past. It has the nice property that you can read messages without need for a special decoder (like in the case of marshal/pickle).


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:32:31 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:32:31 -0500
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.

Sockets are the only thing that will work without threads on all
platforms. You could also use threads and pipes. (I'm not actually
sure how threads+pipes works, but I'm told that it's a viable
approach).

Usually things are simpler and easier because they wrap all the
cross-platform messiness behind a nice API, and then give you a higher
level protocol for IPC on top of that. Unfortunately, the fewer external
dependencies you have, the more you have to rewrite yourself.

For what it's worth, I wrote something potentially similar using Twisted
and AMP. AMP is an Asynchronous Messaging Protocol: this basically
means that clients and servers can send messages to each other at any
time in any order. Twisted makes sure that the right response gets
associated with the right message. This can be very convenient -- you
might request something from another process, and then to compute its
answer it might ask for some additional information from you, and then
you give it that information, and it sends back the final result.

All the communication is done over TCP, usually using Twisted. So this
does involve bringing in a fairly large dependency. For me, the
tradeoff in programmer productivity was worth it, but of course it
really depends on your situation. A more synchronous protocol might be
more useful to you (although my impression was that perhaps you might
be interested in something like AMP), and synchronous protocols
directly on top of sockets are not so difficult to implement (although
making them work across platforms is still too hard for my taste).

Devin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've done some research, but I'm not sure what's most appropriate for my
> situation. What I want to do is have a long running process that spawns
> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates
> with them. The children can be spawned at any time and communicate at
> any time. Being able to communicate with non-local processes would be
> nice, but is not necessary. The implementation needs to be
> cross-platform, but child processes will use the same OS as the parent
> during runtime.
> I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
> just strings or possibly tuples/lists. I'd rather not go outside the
> standard library (but I'd consider it). I don't need to worry about
> compatibility with older Python versions; if it only works with Python
> 3.2, that's not a problem.
> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.
>
> --
> CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 17:12:10 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/2011 3:58 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
>>> Good after
>>> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
>>> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
>>
>> The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
>>   >>>  eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
>> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
>>
>> But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is
>> that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised
>> as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would
>> not want to eval
>>     "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
>> where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your
>> operating system.
>
> You can avoid these problems with ast.literal_eval():
>
> literal_eval(node_or_string)
>      Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
>      expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the
>      following Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists,
>      dicts, booleans, and None.

I keep forgetting that someone thought to solve the problem of eval 
being both convinient and dangerous. Maybe if I type it once, I will 
remember.
 >>> import ast
 >>> ast.literal_eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']

I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily 
accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:14:57 2011
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:14:57 -0500
Subject: Py and SQL
In-Reply-To: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyYU0sHnFKZM-H=4vOxY5UT9gzY2gR5KTBLVZHUwpm1GTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Verde Denim <tdldev at gmail.com> wrote:

> dbCursor1.execute('select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles and
> Users" from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map where name
> like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select granted_role p, grantee c
> from dba_role_privs union select privilege p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs)
> start with p is null connect by p = prior c')
>

I think this is your problem.  Your string is delimited with single quotes
on the outside ('), but you also have a mix of single and double quotes
inside your string.  If you were to assign this to a variable and print it
out, you would probably see the problem right away.

You have two options.  First, you could flip the outer quotes to double
quotes, then switch all of the quotes inside the string to single quotes (I
think that will work fine in SQL).  Second, you could use a triple-quoted
string by switching the outer quotes to ''' or """.  Doing that would let
you mix whatever kinds of quotes you like inside your string, like this
(untested):

sql = '''select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles and Users" from (
select null p, name c from system_privilege_map where name like
upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select granted_role p, grantee c from
dba_role_privs union select privilege p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs)
start with p is null connect by p = prior c'''

dbCursor1.execute(sql)

Once you do that, I think you will find that the "&enter_priviliege" bit in
your SQL isn't going to do what you want.  I assume you're expecting that
to automatically pop up some sort of dialog box asking the user to enter a
value for that variable?  That isn't going to happen in python.  That's a
function of the database IDE you use.  You'll need to use python to ask the
user for the privilege level, then substitute it into the sql yourself.

-- 
Jerry
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From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:19:39 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:19:39 -0600
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6ABFB.2040808@gmail.com>

On 11/30/2011 3:32 PM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> You could also use threads and pipes. (I'm not actually
> sure how threads+pipes works, but I'm told that it's a viable
> approach).
Sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar with threading (not that I
wouldn't be willing to learn).
Is it even possible to pipe into a running process, though?

> For what it's worth, I wrote something potentially similar using Twisted
> and AMP. AMP is an Asynchronous Messaging Protocol: this basically
> means that clients and servers can send messages to each other at any
> time in any order. Twisted makes sure that the right response gets
> associated with the right message. This can be very convenient -- you
> might request something from another process, and then to compute its
> answer it might ask for some additional information from you, and then
> you give it that information, and it sends back the final result.
> 
> All the communication is done over TCP, usually using Twisted. So this
> does involve bringing in a fairly large dependency.
Sounds like overkill, but I'll take a look.

-- 
CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0


From kuaile.xu at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:24:45 2011
From: kuaile.xu at gmail.com (kuaile xu)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:24:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
Message-ID: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hi:

I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.

I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.

However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.

Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
(AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from struct import *
>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
(9.183549615799121e-41,)
>>>

In addition, there is another field which is a 16-bit fixed point
number. How do I unpack two bytes into a float?

Thank you very much,


From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 30 17:28:15 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:28:15 +0100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed6ae00$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 30-11-11 22:03, Andrew Berg wrote:
> I've done some research, but I'm not sure what's most appropriate for my
> situation. What I want to do is have a long running process that spawns
> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates
> with them. The children can be spawned at any time and communicate at
> any time. Being able to communicate with non-local processes would be
> nice, but is not necessary. The implementation needs to be
> cross-platform, but child processes will use the same OS as the parent
> during runtime.
> I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
> just strings or possibly tuples/lists. I'd rather not go outside the
> standard library (but I'd consider it). I don't need to worry about
> compatibility with older Python versions; if it only works with Python
> 3.2, that's not a problem.
> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.
>

Standard library, local processes: multiprocessing module.

If that doesn't suit your needs, maybe check out Pyro:
http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/

Pyro allows objects to talk to each other over the network, with minimal 
programming effort. You can just use normal Python method calls to call 
objects on other machines (or locally, ofcourse). It's written in 100% 
pure Python and works on Python 2.6 and upwards (including 3.x).

Regards,
Irmen de Jong



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 17:29:12 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:29:12 -0500
Subject: Python crashes on segmentation error
In-Reply-To: <jb59a1$nic$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<jb59a1$nic$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb6ans$tg0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/2011 7:58 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Am 30.11.2011 11:42, schrieb Ben Richardson:
>> Python crashes every time i run the following command?
>>
>>>>> import cv
>> Segmentation fault: 11
>>
>> Python quit unexpectedly - any help would be greatly appreciated -
>> thankyou in advance :)
>>
>> Here is crash report?
> [...]
>>
>> Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
>> 0   ???                           	000000000000000000 0 + 0
>> 1   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7885 PyImport_Import
>> + 121
>> 2   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7a1e
>> PyImport_ImportModule + 32
>> 3   cv.so                         	0x00000001004f5082 initcv + 18
>> 4   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dc071
>> _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 177
>
> It looks like you have a faulty 3rd party library with an extension
> module called cv.so that is causing the segfault. The segfault occurs
> either inside or during the import of the cv module. initcv() is the
> init function of the cv module that is called automatically during the
> import.

In other words, contact the authors of the cv module. Or perhaps first 
check to make sure that the cv.so build you are running is intended to 
be compatible with the Python build you are running.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 30 17:31:08 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:31:08 +0100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ed6ae00$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed6ae00$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4ed6aeac$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 30-11-11 23:28, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> On 30-11-11 22:03, Andrew Berg wrote:

>> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates

Oops, missed this on my first read. This rules out my suggestion of Pyro 
because that requires Python on both ends (or Java/.net on the client 
side). Sorry for the noise.

Irmen


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:41:33 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:41:33 -0500
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED6ABFB.2040808@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ED6ABFB.2040808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLLqJaW8wbcPm_pt=b4XnZ8ac_Kj7iM82rNQ4_4qWnvAQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar with threading (not that I
> wouldn't be willing to learn).
> Is it even possible to pipe into a running process, though?

You create the pipe to the process when you start it. e.g.

    subprocess.Popen(['ls', 'foo'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
stdin=subprocess.PIPE)

Irmen de Jong mentions the multiprocessing module, that might be a
better approach. I don't use it for production purposes because it has
bad properties when processes are killed abruptly (it can't tell
necessarily the difference between a truncated message and a normal
message). It doesn't feel safe, you know? (Of course, neither do
threads!)

Devin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/30/2011 3:32 PM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>> You could also use threads and pipes. (I'm not actually
>> sure how threads+pipes works, but I'm told that it's a viable
>> approach).
> Sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar with threading (not that I
> wouldn't be willing to learn).
> Is it even possible to pipe into a running process, though?
>
>> For what it's worth, I wrote something potentially similar using Twisted
>> and AMP. AMP is an Asynchronous Messaging Protocol: this basically
>> means that clients and servers can send messages to each other at any
>> time in any order. Twisted makes sure that the right response gets
>> associated with the right message. This can be very convenient -- you
>> might request something from another process, and then to compute its
>> answer it might ask for some additional information from you, and then
>> you give it that information, and it sends back the final result.
>>
>> All the communication is done over TCP, usually using Twisted. So this
>> does involve bringing in a fairly large dependency.
> Sounds like overkill, but I'll take a look.
>
> --
> CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From hidura at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:48:37 2011
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:48:37 -0400
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Why you don't make this "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',') work for me
El nov 30, 2011 10:16 p.m., "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> escribi?:

> On 11/30/2011 3:58 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
>
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>>  On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good after
>>>> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
>>>> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
>>>  >>>  eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
>>> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
>>>
>>> But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is
>>> that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised
>>> as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would
>>> not want to eval
>>>    "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
>>> where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your
>>> operating system.
>>>
>>
>> You can avoid these problems with ast.literal_eval():
>>
>> literal_eval(node_or_string)
>>     Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
>>     expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the
>>     following Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists,
>>     dicts, booleans, and None.
>>
>
> I keep forgetting that someone thought to solve the problem of eval being
> both convinient and dangerous. Maybe if I type it once, I will remember.
> >>> import ast
> >>> ast.literal_eval('["aaaa","**bbbb","ccc"]')
> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
>
> I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
> accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Nov 30 18:02:53 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:02:53 -0800
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
In-Reply-To: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRSnQOTcChg4Fj=-sjgnip9=hvMVhUftFCaCzvMS0dc_iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:24 PM, kuaile xu <kuaile.xu at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
> the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.
>
> I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
> mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.
>
> However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.
>
> Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> (AMD64)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from struct import *
>>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
> (9.183549615799121e-41,)

Floating-point and fixed-point are *separate* number formats with
distinct representations. You cannot expect to correctly (un)pack one
as if it was the other. Similarly, converting between the two formats
can introduce range and/or imprecision error.

C does not have a built-in fixed-point datatype, so the `struct`
module doesn't handle fixed-point numbers directly. You're going to
have to unpack it (or parts of it) as something more raw, and then do
the necessary bit manipulation yourself.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 18:12:14 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:12:14 -0500
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6B84E.6080706@udel.edu>



On 11/30/2011 5:48 PM, Hidura wrote:
> Why you don't make this "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',') work for me

Look more carefully. This is not the same as ast.literal_eval().

 >>> "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',')
["'1'", "'2'", "'3'"]  # list of 3-char strings
 >>> ast.literal_eval("['1','2','3']")
['1', '2', '3']  # list of 1-char strings

Even if it were the same, it would be specific to lists of strings and 
would not work for anything else.


From kuaile.xu at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:25:27 2011
From: kuaile.xu at gmail.com (kuaile xu)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:25:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
References: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3181.1322694176.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6628ac4b-f6d2-40b6-b1e6-6b0a4bf4e5e2@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 30, 6:02?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:24 PM, kuaile xu <kuaile... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi:
>
> > I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
> > the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.
>
> > I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
> > mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.
>
> > However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.
>
> > Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> > (AMD64)] on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> from struct import *
> >>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
> > (9.183549615799121e-41,)
>
> Floating-point and fixed-point are *separate* number formats with
> distinct representations. You cannot expect to correctly (un)pack one
> as if it was the other. Similarly, converting between the two formats
> can introduce range and/or imprecision error.
>
> C does not have a built-in fixed-point datatype, so the `struct`
> module doesn't handle fixed-point numbers directly. You're going to
> have to unpack it (or parts of it) as something more raw, and then do
> the necessary bit manipulation yourself.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://rebertia.com
>
>

Thanks a lot.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Nov 30 18:25:46 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:25:46 -0600
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>	<jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6BB7A.30809@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/30/11 16:48, Hidura wrote:
> Why you don't make this "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',') work for me

because it breaks on things like

   s = """
     [[1,2,3],42,'''triple the fun!''', "can't touch this, 
eh?",r'"Back\\\slashes?!", she said.', [4,5,6]]
     """

Commas can be embedded in strings, strings can be delimited with 
single, double, or triple quotes, raw strings can be used, more 
than one opening or closing "["/"]" can appear in a row, leading 
or trailing whitespace might throw you off...using 
ast.literal_eval() should just Do the Right Thing?.

-tkc




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:49:52 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:49:52 -0700
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
In-Reply-To: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=6zZkOAdyGgL4zR2Sn0Amg-3+t3uoM48er845973Rxkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:24 PM, kuaile xu <kuaile.xu at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
> the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.
>
> I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
> mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.
>
> However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.
>
> Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> (AMD64)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from struct import *
>>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
> (9.183549615799121e-41,)
>>>>

Like Chris said, you can't unpack it as a float.  Assuming that's Q16
fixed-point, what you can do is unpack it as an int and then multiply
by 2.0 ** -16 to get the corresponding float value.  There should be
no loss of precision converting to a float since floats store 52 bits
of precision, but be aware that you could have overflow or loss of
precision when converting in the opposite direction.

> In addition, there is another field which is a 16-bit fixed point
> number. How do I unpack two bytes into a float?

Same as above, just change the multiplier to match the scale.

Cheers,
Ian


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 21:14:26 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 13:14:26 +1100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoiPCqyk3cCymwDT8jMZOd3NnuzA5L47S+8FGx85WOtMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) ...
> non-local processes would be nice ...
> The implementation needs to be cross-platform ...
> I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
> just strings or possibly tuples/lists.
> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.

Definitely sockets, as other posters have said. The only question is,
what encapsulation format (since sockets give just a stream of bytes).
Since you want non-Python processes to be involved, I would be
inclined to avoid using Python's own pickling system; JSON may be
viable, and it's well known so you should be able to find support in
other languages. Alternatively, take a careful look at your dataset
and invent your own system. If your strings will never contain a pipe
character, you could define a tuple/list to be simply pipe-separated
strings; if they'll never contain newlines, you can specify your
protocol to be newline-terminated. For command/response protocols over
TCP/IP, I strongly recommend poking around with existing protocols
such as the email trio (SMTP, POP, and IMAP); there's many good ideas
to be gained from them.

If you can, try to keep your protocol to ASCII text. It makes
debugging far easier, as you can simply point a telnet/mud client at
your server and manually step through things.

Chris Angelico


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 30 22:15:27 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:15:27 -0500
Subject: Clever hack or code abomination?
Message-ID: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>

I need to try a bunch of names in sequence until I find one that works 
(definition of "works" is unimportant).  The algorithm is:

1) Given a base name, "foo", first see if just plain "foo" works.

2) If not, try "foo-1", "foo-2", and so on

3) If you reach "foo-20", give up.

What would you say if you saw this:

for suffix in [''] + [str(i) for i in xrange(-1, -20, -1)]:

It generates the right sequence of strings.  But, if you came upon that 
code, would it make sense to you, or would you spend half the afternoon 
trying to figure out what it did and the other half of the afternoon 
ranting about the deranged lunatic who wrote it?


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 22:38:13 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Dec 2011 03:38:13 GMT
Subject: Clever hack or code abomination?
References: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ed6f6a5$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:15:27 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

> I need to try a bunch of names in sequence until I find one that works
> (definition of "works" is unimportant).  The algorithm is:
> 
> 1) Given a base name, "foo", first see if just plain "foo" works.
> 
> 2) If not, try "foo-1", "foo-2", and so on
> 
> 3) If you reach "foo-20", give up.
> 
> What would you say if you saw this:
> 
> for suffix in [''] + [str(i) for i in xrange(-1, -20, -1)]:
> 
> It generates the right sequence of strings.  But, if you came upon that
> code, would it make sense to you, or would you spend half the afternoon
> trying to figure out what it did and the other half of the afternoon
> ranting about the deranged lunatic who wrote it?

Nah, it's fine. Not exactly the clearest piece of code in the world, but 
hardly worth a rant.

I'd be more likely to write that as:

for suffix in [''] + ["-%d" % i for i in range(1, 21)]:

or if I needed to do it more than once, as a generator:

def suffixes(max=20):
    yield ""
    for i in range(1, max+1):
        yield "-%d" % i



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 22:42:54 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Dec 2011 03:42:54 GMT
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.3175.1322691152.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed6f7be$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
> accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).

+100000



-- 
Steven


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 22:49:46 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 14:49:46 +1100
Subject: Clever hack or code abomination?
In-Reply-To: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1McpLXp9tqrE1J02VMkC-n0-jxZ4OkSQmKnF5sRGKKDiw@mail.gmail.com>

def possible_names():
    yield "foo"
    for i in range(20):
        yield "foo-" + str(i)

?_?

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> I need to try a bunch of names in sequence until I find one that works
> (definition of "works" is unimportant). ?The algorithm is:
>
> 1) Given a base name, "foo", first see if just plain "foo" works.
>
> 2) If not, try "foo-1", "foo-2", and so on
>
> 3) If you reach "foo-20", give up.
>
> What would you say if you saw this:
>
> for suffix in [''] + [str(i) for i in xrange(-1, -20, -1)]:
>
> It generates the right sequence of strings. ?But, if you came upon that
> code, would it make sense to you, or would you spend half the afternoon
> trying to figure out what it did and the other half of the afternoon
> ranting about the deranged lunatic who wrote it?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 23:17:49 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Dec 2011 04:17:49 GMT
Subject: Disable readline
Message-ID: <4ed6ffed$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Is there a way to disable readline support in the interactive interpreter 
at runtime? Either from within an existing session, or when the session 
starts up will do.

I am trying to test the behaviour of some interactive scripts which rely 
on readline. I have work-arounds for missing readline (such as on Windows 
systems) but no way to test them properly on Linux.

If all else fails, are there any traps or pitfalls in installing a second 
Python installation with readline support disabled?

Any other suggestions?


-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 30 23:25:23 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:25:23 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.3175.1322691152.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed6f7be$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87ehwo5364.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> > I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
> > accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).
>
> +100000

You do realise that any vote outside the range ?1 through +1 is invalid,
right? Every person gets a maximum of 1, positive or negative. Outside
that, the vote police come to kick you off the internet.

-- 
 \                             ?Everything is futile.? ?Marvin of Borg |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 23:33:51 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:33:51 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <87ehwo5364.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.3175.1322691152.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed6f7be$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<87ehwo5364.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGfnuBs1reDnqwAwbfRtyg4i39cWaX9NgBRqrgudz6m+yA@mail.gmail.com>

Dammit, been awake too long researching on the Internet, but I finally
reached the Last Page

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>> > I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
>> > accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).
>>
>> +100000
>
> You do realise that any vote outside the range -1 through +1 is invalid,
> right? Every person gets a maximum of 1, positive or negative. Outside
> that, the vote police come to kick you off the internet.
>
> --
>  \                             "Everything is futile." --Marvin of Borg |
>  `\                                                                   |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 23:35:22 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:35:22 +1100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGedjezoLExMESbFSzHjwObG3e_vicafaXvOSKL3QBLqcg@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, I'll give you some pointers:

0x3A28213A
0x6339392C
0x7363682E


From flt.johnson at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 00:01:45 2011
From: flt.johnson at gmail.com (Fletcher Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode literals and byte string interpretation.
References: <8de0e9b7-aaac-44a4-8a07-9c1a20bfc3eb@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4eaa545f$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7371ad5a-83f1-45cf-800e-987812f9c6a1@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 28, 3:06?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:05:13 -0700, Fletcher Johnson wrote:
> > If I create a newUnicodeobject u'\x82\xb1\x82\xea\x82\xcd' how does
> > this creation process interpret the bytes in the byte string?
>
> It doesn't, because there is no byte-string. You have created aUnicode
> object from aliteralstring ofunicodecharacters, not bytes. Those
> characters are:
>
> Dec Hex ?Char
> 130 0x82 ?
> 177 0xb1 ?
> 130 0x82 ?
> 234 0xea ?
> 130 0x82 ?
> 205 0xcd ?
>
> Don't be fooled that all of the characters happen to be in the range
> 0-255, that is irrelevant.
>
> > Does it
> > assume the string represents a utf-16 encoding, at utf-8 encoding,
> > etc...?
>
> None of the above. It assumes nothing. It takes a string of characters,
> end of story.
>
> > For reference the string is ??? in the 'shift-jis' encoding.
>
> No it is not. The way to get aunicodeliteralwith those characters is
> to use aunicode-aware editor or terminal:
>
> >>> s = u'???'
> >>> for c in s:
>
> ... ? ? print ord(c), hex(ord(c)), c
> ...
> 12371 0x3053 ?
> 12428 0x308c ?
> 12399 0x306f ?
>
> You are confusing characters with bytes. I believe that what you are
> thinking of is the following: you start with a byte string, and then
> decode it intounicode:
>
> >>> bytes = '\x82\xb1\x82\xea\x82\xcd' ?# not u'...'
> >>> text = bytes.decode('shift-jis')
> >>> print text
>
> ???
>
> If you get the encoding wrong, you will get the wrong characters:
>
> >>> print bytes.decode('utf-16')
>
> ???
>
> If you start with theUnicodecharacters, you can encode it into various
> byte strings:
>
> >>> s = u'???'
> >>> s.encode('shift-jis')
>
> '\x82\xb1\x82\xea\x82\xcd'>>> s.encode('utf-8')
>
> '\xe3\x81\x93\xe3\x82\x8c\xe3\x81\xaf'
>
> --
> Steven

Thanks Steven. You are right. I was confusing characters with bytes.


From pmaupin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 00:03:59 2011
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:03:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2346.1320113568.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6cc3dd78-3f08-4fe8-92b5-56a6b23b4006@es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 31, 9:12?pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:

> I would claim that a well-written (in C) translate function, without
> using the delete option, should be much quicker than any python loop,
> even if it does copy the data.

Are you arguing with me?  I was agreeing with you, I thought, that
translate would be faster than a regex.  I also pointed out that the
delete function was available as , but OTOH, that might be a little
slow because I think it does the deletion before the translate.  I
think I'd just do something like this:

>>> transtab = ''.join(' ' if 32 <= x <= 126 else chr(x) for x in range(256))
>>> 'abc\x05\def\x0aghi'.translate(transtab).replace(' ', '')
'\x05\n'


Regards,
Pat


From abhishek.vit at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 01:31:53 2011
From: abhishek.vit at gmail.com (Abhishek Pratap)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:31:53 -0700
Subject: Module for Python and SGE interaction
Message-ID: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys

I shud mention I am relative new to the language. Could you please let me
know based on your experience which module could help me with farm out jobs
to our existing clusters(we use SGE here) using python.

Ideally I would like to do the following.

1. Submit #N jobs to cluster
2. monitor their progress
3. When all #N finishes, push another set of jobs

Thanks!
-Abhi
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  1 02:56:51 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Nov 2011 06:56:51 GMT
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:44:45 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

[...]
>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>      for c in text:
>>          if c not in LEGAL:
>>              return False
>>      return True
> 
> If text is 3.x bytes, this does not work ;-). OP did not specify bytes
> or unicode or Python version.

The OP specified *string*. Whether that's a byte-string in Python 2, or a 
unicode string in Python 3, it will still work, so long as both `text` 
and `LEGAL` are strings.

[steve at sylar ~]$ python2 -c "print 'a' in 'abc'"  # both byte strings
True
[steve at sylar ~]$ python2 -c "print u'a' in u'abc'"  # both unicode strings
True
[steve at sylar ~]$ python3 -c "print('a' in 'abc')"  # both unicode strings
True

Mixing bytes and characters may or may not do what you expect.

[steve at sylar ~]$ python2 -c "print 'a' in u'abc'"  # one of each
True

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is open for debate :)


>> Algorithmically, that's as efficient as possible:
> 
> This is a bit strange since you go on to explain that it is inefficient
> -- O(n*k) where n = text length and k = legal length -- whereas below is
> O(n).

But since k is a constant, O(nk) is O(n).

When using Big Oh notation, it is acceptable to hand-wave away a lot of 
detail. For example, it's common to assume that n+7, n//7 and n**7 all 
take the same constant amount of time, which is patently untrue: division 
and exponentiation both require more work than addition. In this case, 
relative to the size of the input text, both a linear string search and a 
constant-time hash lookup are O(1). That doesn't imply that they 
*literally* take constant time.

[...]
>> Since all() is guaranteed to keep short-cut semantics, that will be as
>> fast as possible in Python,
> 
> A dangerous statement to make.

I like living dangerously :)

> 'c in legal' has to get hash(c) and look
> that up in the hash table, possible skipping around a bit if t If text
> is byte string rather than unicode, a simple lookup 'mask[c]', where
> mask is a 0-1 byte array, should be faster (see my other post).

Oooh, clever! I like! It's not necessary to assume bytes, nor is it 
necessary to create a bitmask the size of the entire Unicode range. 
Here's a version for strings (bytes or unicode in Python 2, unicode in 
Python 3):

LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))

# Untested
def is_ascii_text(text):
    for c in text:
        n = ord(c)
        if n >= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
    return True


Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)

I *suspect*, even with any optimizations, that this will be slower than 
the version using a set.

> On my
> new Pentium Win 7 machine, it is -- by albout 5%. For 100,000,000 legal
> bytes, a minimum of 8.69 versus 9.17 seconds.

On my old Linux box, I get the opposite result: set lookup is a tiny bit 
faster, coincidentally also by almost 5%.


>>> from time import time
>>> legal_set = frozenset(range(32, 128))
>>> text = b'a' * 100000000
>>> t = time(); all(c in legal_set for c in text); time()-t
True
27.174341917037964
>>> 
>>> legal_ray = 128 * b'\1'
>>> t = time(); all(legal_ray[c] for c in text); time()-t
True
28.39691996574402




-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  1 03:10:50 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Nov 2011 07:10:50 GMT
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2346.1320113568.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eaf9b7a$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:12:26 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> I would claim that a well-written (in C) translate function, without
> using the delete option, should be much quicker than any python loop,
> even if it does copy the data.

I think you are selling short the speed of the Python interpreter. Even 
for short strings, it's faster to iterate over a string in Python 3 than 
to copy it with translate:

>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> t1 = Timer('for c in text: pass', 'text = "abcd"')
>>> t2 = Timer('text.translate(mapping)', 
...     'text = "abcd"; mapping = "".maketrans("", "")')
>>> min(t1.repeat())
0.450606107711792
>>> min(t2.repeat())
0.9279451370239258


> Incidentally, on the Pentium family,
> there's a machine instruction for that, to do the whole loop in one
> instruction (with rep prefix).

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a machine instruction for copying an 
entire terabyte of data in one step. Since the OP explicitly said he was 
checking text up to a TB in size, whatever solution is used has to scale 
well.



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov  1 05:21:14 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:21:14 +0100
Subject: Efficient,
	built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII chars outside ASCII
	32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2346.1320113568.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9b7a$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j8odka$39e$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:12:26 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
>> I would claim that a well-written (in C) translate function, without
>> using the delete option, should be much quicker than any python loop,
>> even if it does copy the data.
> 
> I think you are selling short the speed of the Python interpreter. Even
> for short strings, it's faster to iterate over a string in Python 3 than
> to copy it with translate:
> 
>>>> from timeit import Timer
>>>> t1 = Timer('for c in text: pass', 'text = "abcd"')
>>>> t2 = Timer('text.translate(mapping)',
> ...     'text = "abcd"; mapping = "".maketrans("", "")')
>>>> min(t1.repeat())
> 0.450606107711792
>>>> min(t2.repeat())
> 0.9279451370239258

Lies, damn lies, and benchmarks ;)

Copying is fast:

>>> Timer("text + 'x'", "text='abcde '*10**6").timeit(100)
1.819761037826538
>>> Timer("for c in text: pass", "text='abcde '*10**6").timeit(100)
18.89239192008972

The problem with str.translate() (unicode.translate() in 2.x) is that it 
needs a dictionary lookup for every character. However, if like the OP you 
are going to read data from a file to check whether it's (a subset of) 
ascii, there's no point converting to a string, and for bytes (where a 
lookup table with the byte as an index into that table can be used) the 
numbers look quite different:

>>> t1 = Timer("for c in text: pass", "text = b'abcd '*10**6")
>>> t1.timeit(100)
15.818882942199707
>>> t2 = Timer("text.translate(mapping)", "text = b'abcd '*10**6; mapping = 
b''.maketrans(b'', b'')")
>>> t2.timeit(100)
2.821769952774048




From wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 08:03:17 2011
From: wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com (pyman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 05:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
Message-ID: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

hello, I need some idea to prove two formula is same. if N = 3, these
formula are same each other. each formula has 3 input . To prove this,
drawing shape or anything would be possible. how can I do this? please
give me your idea!

for example:
N = 1 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
value and each formula's output are different.
N = 2 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
value and each formula's output are different.
N = 3 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
value and each formula's output are SAME.

Wonjun, Choi


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 08:17:30 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:17:30 -0400
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
In-Reply-To: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EAFE35A.7080106@davea.name>

On 11/01/2011 08:03 AM, pyman wrote:
> hello, I need some idea to prove two formula is same. if N = 3, these
> formula are same each other. each formula has 3 input . To prove this,
> drawing shape or anything would be possible. how can I do this? please
> give me your idea!
>
> for example:
> N = 1 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
> value and each formula's output are different.
> N = 2 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
> value and each formula's output are different.
> N = 3 : formula1 has a, b, c input value, formula2 has d, e, f input
> value and each formula's output are SAME.
>
> Wonjun, Choi
Python doesn't have formulae, it has functions and methods.  So you have 
to describe more completely what kind of formula you have, math, 
physics, chemistry?  And how is one different than the next?  And how 
can a formula with 3 input use four values, N, a,. b, and c ?

Please be more specific, and maybe somebody can help.

-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 09:01:18 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:01:18 -0400
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
In-Reply-To: <CANO3Hx1ZQ5cMN2Aysje3wVmFOLymJaXhdfu_eRh86PDWB8g4Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>	<4EAFE35A.7080106@davea.name>
	<CANO3Hx1ZQ5cMN2Aysje3wVmFOLymJaXhdfu_eRh86PDWB8g4Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EAFED9E.1070707@davea.name>

(You forgot to do a REPLY-ALL, so that your message didn't get sent to 
the list)

>>
>>>   Python doesn't have formulae, it has functions and methods.  So you have
>> to describe more completely
>
> what kind of formula you have, math, physics, chemistry?
>
> the formula is related to math.
>
>
>>   And how is one different than the next?
>
>
> these formula are completely different each other  and it is custom
> formula.
> for example, when I put 3 input into A formula, it outputs 1 result.
> and when I put 3 input into B formula, it outputs 1 result
> so each formula have 3 input for example
>
> A formula : f(x,y,z)=3x+4y+2z+3
> B formula : f(k,j,t)=2k+3j+2t+1
>
> this formula is different each other which has 3 input.
> and have only 1 result
>
> and if I loop this formula from 0 to N(for example : N = 3)
> if N=1, the result will be different each other. and N=2 too.
> but when N=3, the result will be same each other.
>
Since N isn't a parameter to either function, the results can never change.

> so I wanted to prove this. by drawing shape or something so that children
> can be understand easily.
>
>
>>
>

I'm still trying to help you clarify your problem, but you are getting 
much closer.  Those two formulae take three arguments (although you 
should use the same name for the arguments if the comparison is to mean 
anything).  N doesn't come into it at all.

Perhaps by N you mean tuples like  (2,1,1) and (4,2,1), and you want to 
know for which tuples the result will be the same.

That could be represented by some 4 dimensional graph, but I don't know 
any graphing package that could show it, in python or otherwise.


-- 

DaveA


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  1 11:04:26 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:04:26 +0100
Subject: sending more then 2 messages to SocketServer fasils
In-Reply-To: <7699e647-98fb-4a6e-aff4-1694d06fd705@h39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <j8b3n3$hi9$1@news.albasani.net>
	<7699e647-98fb-4a6e-aff4-1694d06fd705@h39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb00a7a$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Hi people!
I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
Socketserver. Why is that?!


Here the Server:

import SocketServer
from ast import literal_eval

class MKTest(object):
    DSX = []
    MKTestInst = None

    def __init__(self,Daten):
        MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)

    def getObj(Daten):
        if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
            MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
        return MKTest.MKTestInst

    getObj = staticmethod(getObj)

class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        data = self.request.recv(1024)
        data = literal_eval(data)
        #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
        MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        data = MKTest.DSX
        data = '%s' % data
        self.request.send(data)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
    server.serve_forever()



and the client:

import socket

data = [100]
received = [None,None]
HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.close()

print received



The result is:

['[100]', '']



who can help me solving this problem



Tamer


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 11:05:16 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
Message-ID: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

I want to assign a list of variables:
locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]

updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:

for order in range(len(Orders)):
	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]

This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
pythonesque way using map or comprehension?

-- Gnarlie


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  1 11:07:09 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:07:09 +0100
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
Message-ID: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Hi people!
I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
Socketserver. Why is that?!


Here the Server:

import SocketServer
from ast import literal_eval

class MKTest(object):
    DSX = []
    MKTestInst = None

    def __init__(self,Daten):
        MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)

    def getObj(Daten):
        if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
            MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
        return MKTest.MKTestInst

    getObj = staticmethod(getObj)

class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        data = self.request.recv(1024)
        data = literal_eval(data)
        #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
        MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
        data = MKTest.DSX
        data = '%s' % data
        self.request.send(data)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
    server.serve_forever()



and the client:

import socket

data = [100]
received = [None,None]
HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.close()

print received



The result is:

['[100]', '']



who can help me solving this problem



Tamer



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov  1 11:22:02 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:22:02 +0100
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j8p2oo$p3m$1@dough.gmane.org>

Gnarlodious wrote:

> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
> 
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
> 
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
> 
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?

for order, place in zip(Orders, locus):
    order.locus = place




From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 11:31:38 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 11:31:38 -0400
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB010DA.3040400@davea.name>

On 11/01/2011 11:05 AM, Gnarlodious wrote:
> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> 	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?
>
> -- Gnarlie


You can do that with the enumerate function, or with zip
          for index, instance in enumerate(Orders):
                instance.locus = locus[index]

          for instance, place  in zip(Orders, locus):
                instance.locus = locus[index]

It would be clearer if you used singular for individual items, and 
plural for the collections,

loci  [-2, 21, ....
orders = [list of order objects ...]

for order, locus in zip(orders, loci):
       order.locus = locus


-- 

DaveA



From christopherbl at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 11:33:28 2011
From: christopherbl at gmail.com (cpbl)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: modified legend appears out of view! It didn't used to. MWE included.
Message-ID: <9794fb7a-db8f-48bd-8254-405f4cf23794@s32g2000prj.googlegroups.com>

I seem to be using
Python 2.7.2+
(latest update of Ubuntu). The following code used to work nicely, but
now gives me an unreadable legend. The legend is showing up mostly out
of view below and to the left of the figure. Does that happen for you?
Is there a regression bug, or am I doing something wrong?
The MWE below is adapted from a function I wrote to allow addition of
extra comments within a legend box below the normal legend details.
Thanks for any help!
Chris

!/usr/bin/python

import pylab as plt

from matplotlib.offsetbox import TextArea, VPacker
comments='foodlefish'
plt.figure(1)
plt.plot([1,2],[3,4], label='test')
lh=plt.legend(fancybox=True,shadow=False,title='Foodle',loc='best')
if lh:
    lh.get_frame().set_alpha(0.5)
    fontsize=lh.get_texts()[0].get_fontsize()
    legendcomment=TextArea('\n'.join(comments),
textprops=dict(size=fontsize))
    lh._legend_box = VPacker(pad=5,
                             sep=0,
                             children=[lh._legend_box,legendcomment],
                             align="right")  # Or should it be centre?
    lh._legend_box.set_figure(plt.gcf())

plt.show()


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov  1 11:37:20 2011
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:37:20 +0000
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>

On 01/11/11 15:05, Gnarlodious wrote:
> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> 	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?
>

for obj, val in zip(Orders, locus):
      obj.locus = val


I'm not sure how worthwhile it is converting the above to a list 
comprehension (when the list would just be thrown away). Having said 
that the call to zip creates an unnecessary list. You could use izip or 
maybe,

for i, val in enumerate(locus):
     Orders[i].locus = val

Duncan


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Nov  1 11:40:52 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:40:52 +0100
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4hg5o8-kt3.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 01.11.2011 16:05, schrieb Gnarlodious:
> I want to assign a list of variables:
> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>
> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>
> for order in range(len(Orders)):
> 	Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>
> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?

Use enumerate:

for object, index in enumerate(Orders):
     object.locus = locus[index]


I'm not 100% I understood your description though, but it looks like 
this would do what you want and be descriptive at the same time.

Uli


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov  1 11:57:02 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:57:02 +0100
Subject: C API: Making a context manager
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Chris Kaynor, 31.10.2011 19:34:
> I am currently rewritting a class using the Python C API to improve
> performance of it, however I have not been able to find any
> documentation about how to make a context manager using the C API.

You should take a look at Cython. It makes these things *so* much easier.


> The code I am working to produce is the following (its a method of a class):
>
> @contextlib.contextmanager
> def connected(self, *args, **kwargs):
> 	connection = self.connect(*args, **kwargs)
> 	try:
> 		yield
> 	finally:
> 		connection.disconnect()

You can use the above in Cython code unmodified, and it's likely going to 
be good enough (depending on what kind of connection we are talking about 
here).

In case that's also performance critical, however, it's likely faster to 
spell it out as a class, i.e.

     ...
         def connected(self, *args, **kwargs):
             return ConnectionManager(self, args, kwargs)


     cdef class ConnectionManager:
         cdef object args, kwargs, connection, connect

         def __init__(self, connector, args, kwargs):
             self.args, self.kwargs = args, kwargs
             self.connect = connector.connect
         def __enter__(self):
             self.connection = self.connect(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
         def __exit__(self, *exc):
             self.connection.disconnect()
             return True # or False? I always forget which means what

Not that much longer either.

Stefan



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 12:13:21 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
In-Reply-To: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <14258539.1164.1320164001987.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt10>

MKTest.getObj(data[0]) will return the same object on every call(with the same data that was initialized 1'st time). Any Daten parameter after the 1'st call is ignored.


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Nov  1 12:19:46 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:19:46 -0700
Subject: C API: Making a context manager
In-Reply-To: <j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxunm73q5CCHw2nN7mD_S90JRKLWA2EL9M+-k=G6ULjMkg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
> Chris Kaynor, 31.10.2011 19:34:
>>
>> I am currently rewritting a class using the Python C API to improve
>> performance of it, however I have not been able to find any
>> documentation about how to make a context manager using the C API.
>
> You should take a look at Cython. It makes these things *so* much easier.

Unfortunately, all of the code has to be fully compatible with CPython
2.6 - it needs to function inside of Maya, which has CPython 2.6
embedded, and to which we do not have the source code.

While not all parts of our code base are used inside of Maya, most of
the performance-critical items are to some degree or another.

In this particular case, the connected context manager is not heavily
used (outside of unittests) and itself is not performance critical,
but the much of the rest of the package (and thus the class) it is
part of is.

Chris


From chen.1381 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 12:57:56 2011
From: chen.1381 at gmail.com (Wei)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
Message-ID: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I got several buggy things going on.
First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
two classes.
Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.


From chen.1381 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 13:01:21 2011
From: chen.1381 at gmail.com (Wei)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
References: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <202fcd81-b383-4909-8112-33999df09512@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 12:57?pm, Wei <chen.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I got several buggy things going on.
> First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
> two classes.
> Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
> folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
> P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.

Also, I am using 64 bit win7 professional.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov  1 13:03:12 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:03:12 +0100
Subject: C API: Making a context manager
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxunm73q5CCHw2nN7mD_S90JRKLWA2EL9M+-k=G6ULjMkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALvWhxvODxJa82iJRin3crtxyxEpZaW-BFbhqx_zsHujrMg2tg@mail.gmail.com>	<j8p4sg$ckb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CALvWhxunm73q5CCHw2nN7mD_S90JRKLWA2EL9M+-k=G6ULjMkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8p8oh$fbn$1@dough.gmane.org>

Chris Kaynor, 01.11.2011 17:19:
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Chris Kaynor, 31.10.2011 19:34:
>>> I am currently rewritting a class using the Python C API to improve
>>> performance of it, however I have not been able to find any
>>> documentation about how to make a context manager using the C API.
>>
>> You should take a look at Cython. It makes these things *so* much easier.
>
> Unfortunately, all of the code has to be fully compatible with CPython
> 2.6 - it needs to function inside of Maya, which has CPython 2.6
> embedded, and to which we do not have the source code.

This sounds like you're misunderstanding what Cython is. Cython compiles 
(and optimises) your Python code into fast C code that uses the C-API (and 
that can happily call into external C code etc.). So you get basically the 
same (and sometimes better) speed, but without all the C-level hassle and 
maintenance issues. The C code that Cython generates is fully compatible 
with CPython 2.4 up to the latest 3.3, and that includes 2.6.


> While not all parts of our code base are used inside of Maya, most of
> the performance-critical items are to some degree or another.
>
> In this particular case, the connected context manager is not heavily
> used (outside of unittests) and itself is not performance critical,
> but the much of the rest of the package (and thus the class) it is
> part of is.

In that case, I advise you to leave the context manager code as is, and 
just compile the module that you are trying to speed up (and which, IIUC is 
currently written in Python) with Cython, then optimise the parts of it 
that need more speed by injecting static typing. Here's a quick howto:

http://docs.cython.org/src/quickstart/cythonize.html

Stefan



From abhishek.vit at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 13:31:34 2011
From: abhishek.vit at gmail.com (Abhishek Pratap)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:31:34 -0700
Subject: Module for Python and SGE interaction
In-Reply-To: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJbA1KBtVANc6VisqDFttXZ1Z0M==BkigVeSHRnVHct1DHQpwg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys

Pushing this one again just in case it was missed last night.

Best,
-Abhi

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Abhishek Pratap <abhishek.vit at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hey Guys
>
> I shud mention I am relative new to the language. Could you please let me
> know based on your experience which module could help me with farm out jobs
> to our existing clusters(we use SGE here) using python.
>
> Ideally I would like to do the following.
>
> 1. Submit #N jobs to cluster
> 2. monitor their progress
> 3. When all #N finishes, push another set of jobs
>
> Thanks!
> -Abhi
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov  1 13:56:25 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:56:25 +0000
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
In-Reply-To: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4EB032C9.5060104@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 01/11/2011 15:07, MrSmile wrote:
> Hi people!
> I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
> Socketserver. Why is that?!
>
>
> Here the Server:
>
> import SocketServer
> from ast import literal_eval
>
> class MKTest(object):
>      DSX = []
>      MKTestInst = None
>
>      def __init__(self,Daten):
>          MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)
>
>      def getObj(Daten):
>          if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
>              MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
>          return MKTest.MKTestInst
>
>      getObj = staticmethod(getObj)
>
> class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
>      def handle(self):
>          data = self.request.recv(1024)
>          data = literal_eval(data)
>          #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>          #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
>          MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>          data = MKTest.DSX
>          data = '%s' % data
>          self.request.send(data)
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
>      server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
>      server.serve_forever()
>
[snip]

I think that in the 'handle' function you should be putting the code in
a 'while' loop:

      def handle(self):
          # The client has opened a socket to the server.
          while True:
              data = self.request.recv(1024)
              if not data:
                  # The client has closed the socket to the server.
                  break
              ...


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov  1 14:54:09 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 1 Nov 2011 18:54:09 GMT
Subject: Efficient,
	built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII chars outside ASCII
	32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))
> 
> # Untested
> def is_ascii_text(text):
>     for c in text:
>         n = ord(c)
>         if n >= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>     return True
> 
> 
> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)
> 

#untested
LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
MASK = [True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False for n in range(128)]

# Untested
def is_ascii_text(text):
  try:
    return all(MASK[ord(c)] for c in text)
  except IndexError:
    return False


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From th982a at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:12:46 2011
From: th982a at googlemail.com (Tamer Higazi)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:12:46 +0100
Subject: sending more then 2 messages at a time to a SocketServer fails
In-Reply-To: <14258539.1164.1320164001987.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt10>
References: <4eb00b1d$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<14258539.1164.1320164001987.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt10>
Message-ID: <4EB044AE.1020207@googlemail.com>

Am 01.11.2011 17:13, schrieb Miki Tebeka:
> MKTest.getObj(data[0]) will return the same object on every call(with the same data that was initialized 1'st time). Any Daten parameter after the 1'st call is ignored.


Not true!
The singleton object has nothing todo. Here one more example for you:

Client:

import socket

data = ['Tamer']
received = [None,None]
HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.send('%s' % data)
received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
sock.close()

print received


Server:

import SocketServer
from ast import literal_eval

class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        data = self.request.recv(1024)
        data = literal_eval(data)
        data = '%s' % data[0]
        self.request.send('%s %s' % ('Halloaaa',data))

if __name__ == "__main__":
    HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
    server.serve_forever()



with it's result:

['Halloaaa Tamer', '']



the 2nd argument from the list is EMPTY. Now tell me why?!


From th982a at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:14:57 2011
From: th982a at googlemail.com (Tamer Higazi)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:14:57 +0100
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
In-Reply-To: <202fcd81-b383-4909-8112-33999df09512@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<202fcd81-b383-4909-8112-33999df09512@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB04531.8090207@googlemail.com>

buy wingIDE or use PyDEV

If you tell me that you are using IronPython then buy wingIDE, there you
can make use of the .net classes in python too.


Tamer


Am 01.11.2011 18:01, schrieb Wei:
> On Nov 1, 12:57 pm, Wei <chen.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I got several buggy things going on.
>> First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
>> two classes.
>> Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
>> folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
>> P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.
> 
> Also, I am using 64 bit win7 professional.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:25:42 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:25:42 -0600
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4EAF175A.6060508@davea.name> <4EAF1C40.6030202@davea.name>
	<mailman.2342.1320101605.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3bd5234e-dbbe-4f67-84fb-e654650decb6@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=MMthvhgc7+gSSOpdq4+-uCtnDy5JZOZbea09W0TJYJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Patrick Maupin <pmaupin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 5:52?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>?For instance, split() will split on vertical tab,
>> which is not one of the characters the OP wanted.
>
> That's just the default behavior. ?You can explicitly specify the
> separator to split on. ?But it's probably more efficient to just use
> translate with deletechars.

As I understood it, the point of using the default behavior was to
merge whitespace, which cannot be done when the separator is
explicitly specified.  For example:

>>> "     ".split()
[]
>>> "     ".split(" ")
['', '', '', '', '', '']

It is easy to check that the first is empty.  The second is a bit more
annoying and is O(n).  Your point about deletechars is good, though,
definitely better than a regular expression.


From tres.bailey at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:26:19 2011
From: tres.bailey at gmail.com (tres.bailey at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17209707.1599.1320175579736.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak12>

Hi Gabriele,

I'm not an Alchemy expert, but I have used the ColumnProperty of the model/column objects to solve this problem in the past.  So to get the column name for the description column in your example above, you would use the following syntax:

Country.description.property.columns[0].name

And this would avoid having to use additional objects than the one you're working on.  The ColumnProperty object (and the Column object attribute it contains) will provide you with information such as column name, type, default vals, primary_key, and nullable.  You could also get more generic by iterating through your model object's __table__ attribute and grab each column:

[col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]


More information can be found here:
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/schema.html?highlight=schema.column#sqlalchemy.schema.Column
and
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/internals.html?highlight=columnproperty#sqlalchemy.orm.properties.ColumnProperty



From pacopyc at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:27:16 2011
From: pacopyc at gmail.com (pacopyc)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
Message-ID: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?

Thanks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov  1 15:29:50 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:29:50 +0000
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4EB048AE.2030301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 01/11/2011 18:54, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>
>> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
>> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))
>>
>> # Untested
>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>      for c in text:
>>          n = ord(c)
>>          if n>= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>>      return True
>>
>>
>> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)
>>
>
> #untested
> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
> MASK = [True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False for n in range(128)]
>
Instead of:

     True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False

why not:

     if chr(n) in LEGAL

> # Untested
> def is_ascii_text(text):
>    try:
>      return all(MASK[ord(c)] for c in text)
>    except IndexError:
>      return False
>


From Ric at rdo  Tue Nov  1 15:34:46 2011
From: Ric at rdo (Ric at rdo)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:34:46 -0500
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
Message-ID: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>


I am trying to create a small application in wxPython and would like
to ask for some help.

I am trying to display folders and  files in ListCtrl but sorted first
folders followed by files (like in a file manager style) but not sure
how to do this? Would I need to do this in code somehow or ListCtrl
would help me?

I am trying to do this and learn at the same time.

Would appreciate any advice. Thank you. 


From tres.bailey at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:37:42 2011
From: tres.bailey at gmail.com (tres.bailey at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>

Sorry for the repost, if it does in fact repost.

I'm no SQLAlchemy expert, but I have used the Table and Column attribute objects from the model object to solve a similar problem in the past.  You can use the following syntax to do it:

[col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]

which should return you a list of ['cancelled', 'description'].  You can find more information on the attributes you are using here:
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/schema.html?highlight=schema.column#sqlalchemy.schema.Column

and 
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/schema.html?highlight=schema.table#sqlalchemy.schema.Table


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov  1 15:47:02 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:47:02 +0100
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <j8pibn$pk7$1@dough.gmane.org>

python at bdurham.com, 31.10.2011 20:54:
> Wondering if there's a fast/efficient built-in way to determine
> if a string has non-ASCII chars outside the range ASCII 32-127,
> CR, LF, or Tab?
>
> I know I can look at the chars of a string individually and
> compare them against a set of legal chars using standard Python
> code (and this works fine), but I will be working with some very
> large files in the 100's Gb to several Tb size range so I'd
> thought I'd check to see if there was a built-in in C that might
> handle this type of check more efficiently.
>
> Does this sound like a use case for cython or pypy?

Cython. For data of that size, likely read from a fast local RAID drive I 
guess, you certainly don't want to read (part of) the file into a memory 
buffer, then copy that memory buffer into a Python bytes string, and then 
search it character by character, copying each of the characters into a new 
string object just to compare them.

Instead, you'd want to use low-level I/O to read a not-so-small part of the 
file into a memory buffer, run through it looking for unwanted characters, 
and then read the next chunk, without any further copying. The comparison 
loop could look like this, for example:

     cdef unsigned char current_byte
     cdef unsigned char* byte_buffer = libc.stdlib.malloc(BUFFER_SIZE)

     # while read chunk ...
     for current_byte in byte_buffer[:BUFFER_SIZE]:
         if current_byte < 32 or current_byte > 127:
             if current_byte not in b'\t\r\n':
                 raise ValueError()

What kind of I/O API you use is up to you. You may want to use the 
functions declared in libc.stdio (ships with Cython).

Stefan



From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  1 16:08:50 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:08:50 -0400
Subject: understand program used to create file
In-Reply-To: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB051D2.4000204@davea.name>

On 11/01/2011 03:27 PM, pacopyc wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?
>
> Thanks
If you're on Linux, just use the process module to invoke "file" and 
examine the results.

If you're not, then be more specific about the environment.

-- 

DaveA



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Nov  1 16:22:25 2011
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:22:25 -0300
Subject: When I use Python under Windows. I found some file handles are
	not closed,
References: <CAE2XoE-6Tn32qZZSQeG+m_hJY4-D4NBa7KLV+zmpyeTTkAbVhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.v4aavnp7x6zn5v@lepton>

En Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:57:15 -0300, ???(Yonggang Luo)   
<luoyonggang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> escribi?:

> How did detecting where those handlers are created to tracing it and  
> close
> it.
> Mainly because I was using C binding library(subvertpy) and file is not
> closed.

A better place to ask is python-list at python.org

Please include the Python version you're using. Also, a small, complete,  
runnable code example showing the problem would be very valuable. Usually,  
in building such example, you may well find out where your problem is.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov  1 16:47:26 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 1 Nov 2011 20:47:26 GMT
Subject: Efficient,
	built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII chars outside ASCII
	32-127, CRLF, Tab?
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<Xns9F90C044BB79Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2365.1320176247.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9F90D37881384duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> On 01/11/2011 18:54, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>>
>>> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
>>> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range
(128))
>>>
>>> # Untested
>>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>>      for c in text:
>>>          n = ord(c)
>>>          if n>= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>>>      return True
>>>
>>>
>>> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)
>>>
>>
>> #untested
>> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
>> MASK = [True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False for n in range(128)]
>>
> Instead of:
> 
>      True if chr(n) in LEGAL else False
> 
> why not:
> 
>      if chr(n) in LEGAL
> 
I think you meant to drop the 'if' also.

MASK = [chr(n) in LEGAL for n in range(128)]

But yes, I was concentrating on the function body rather than the 
initialisation.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 16:53:47 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 07:53:47 +1100
Subject: understand program used to create file
In-Reply-To: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqtsso7hn-9Okqa4K61QoDEoxy6Ub=zwhaJyYDtHrT07Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:27 AM, pacopyc <pacopyc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?
>

Technically, you can't find out just from the file what it was that
created it. But if you mean "figure out what type of file each one is"
(eg recognize an ODF, a PDF, a DOC, etc), then the easiest way is to
read in the first few bytes of the file and look for well-known magic
numbers[1]. As Dave says, Linux comes with a command that does exactly
that (and a bit more), called 'file'.

ChrisA
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_number_(programming)


From joncle at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  1 16:58:42 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c1fb959d-f523-423b-853b-53af7697673f@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 7:27?pm, pacopyc <paco... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?
>
> Thanks

My suggestion would be the same as DaveA's.

This gives you the format it was *written* in.
(Saved a blank OO document as 95/97/XP Word DOC under Linux)

jon at forseti:~/filetest$ file *
saved-by-OO.doc: CDF V2 Document, Little Endian, Os: Windows, Version
1.0, Code page: -535, Author: jon , Revision Number: 0, Create Time/
Date: Mon Oct 31 20:47:30 2011

I'd be impressed if you could discover the program that did *write*
it; I'd imagine you'd need something that understood some meta-data in
the format (if the format has a kind of 'created_by' field, for
instance), or depend on nuisances which give away that a certain
program wrote data in another's native format.

Assuming the former, what might be possible:

1) Grab a "magic number" lookup list
2) Grab 8 (I think that should be all that's needed, but hey ummm..)
bytes from the start of each file
3) Look it up in the "magic number" list
4) If you got something great, if not compare 7, 6, 5, 4 bytes...
etc... until you get a hit or bail out

(Or just find a Windows port of 'file')

HTH

Jon.


From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 17:16:39 2011
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:16:39 -0500
Subject: Does anyone use Python Tools for visual studio?
In-Reply-To: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <46f83adf-83ce-4935-9af5-eaf6b55bcec0@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwosLLVjf8cSsh6oG2in50qg5PRnWBv7k5kTwspTYF7F7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:57, Wei <chen.1381 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I got several buggy things going on.
> First, the view of class tree stops expanding after creating more than
> two classes.
> Second, after 800 lines of code the classes and methods can't be
> folded. (meaning the + sign is gone)
> P.S. there is no warning or errors in my code.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Yes, I use it. If you're having issues with it, you should report them
at http://pytools.codeplex.com/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  1 17:33:34 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:33:34 -0400
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
In-Reply-To: <RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>
Message-ID: <j8pojo$7jl$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/2011 11:37 AM, duncan smith wrote:
> On 01/11/11 15:05, Gnarlodious wrote:
>> I want to assign a list of variables:
>> locus=[-2, 21, -10, 2, 12, -11, 0, 3]
>>
>> updating a list of objects each value to its respective instance:
>>
>> for order in range(len(Orders)):
>> Orders[order].locus=locus[order]
>>
>> This works, even though it reads like doggerel. Is there a more
>> pythonesque way using map or comprehension?
>>
>
> for obj, val in zip(Orders, locus):
> obj.locus = val
>
>
> I'm not sure how worthwhile it is converting the above to a list
> comprehension (when the list would just be thrown away). Having said
> that the call to zip creates an unnecessary list.

Not in Py 3

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 17:35:11 2011
From: wonjunchoi001 at gmail.com (pyman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAFE35A.7080106@davea.name>
	<CANO3Hx1ZQ5cMN2Aysje3wVmFOLymJaXhdfu_eRh86PDWB8g4Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2351.1320152486.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <965c33e2-8ba4-4278-9517-730ce4639492@d33g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

first of all, thank you for trying to understand my issue.

do you know sigma? I omitted sigma it means sum...


From pauldavidmena at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 18:13:25 2011
From: pauldavidmena at gmail.com (extraspecialbitter)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
Message-ID: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

I'm still trying to write that seemingly simple Python script to print
out network interfaces (as found in the "ifconfig -a" command) and
their speed ("ethtool <interface>").  The idea is to loop for each
interface and
print out its speed.  I'm looping correctly, but have some issues
parsing the output for all interfaces except for the "pan0"
interface.  I'm running on eth1, and the "ifconfig -a" command also
shows an eth0, and of course lo.  My script is trying to match on the
string "Speed", but I never seem to successfully enter the "if"
clause.

First, here is the output of "ethtool eth1":

=================

Settings for eth1:
	Supported ports: [ TP ]
	Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
	Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
	Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
	Advertised pause frame use: No
	Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
	Speed: 100Mb/s
	Duplex: Full
	Port: Twisted Pair
	PHYAD: 1
	Transceiver: internal
	Auto-negotiation: on
	MDI-X: off
	Supports Wake-on: pumbag
	Wake-on: g
	Current message level: 0x00000001 (1)
	Link detected: yes

=================

The script *should* match on the string "Speed" and then assign "100Mb/
s" to a variable, but is never getting past the second if statement
below:

=================

#!/usr/bin/python

# Quick and dirty script to print out available interfaces and their
speed

# Initializations

output = " Interface: %s Speed: %s"
noinfo = "(Speed Unknown)"
speed  = noinfo

import os, socket, types, subprocess

fp = os.popen("ifconfig -a")
dat=fp.read()
dat=dat.split('\n')
for line in dat:
    if line[10:20] == "Link encap":
       interface=line[:9]
       cmd = "ethtool " + interface
       gp = os.popen(cmd)
       fat=gp.read()
       fat=fat.split('\n')
       for line in fat:
           if line[0:6] == "Speed":
               try:
                   speed=line[8:]
               except:
                   speed=noinfo
print output % (interface, speed)

=================

Again, I appreciate everyone's patience, as I'm obviously I'm a python
newbie.  Thanks in advance!


From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 18:27:02 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:27:02 +0000
Subject: Chaco for real-time plot of PySerial data
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWGhLBz=a-69Qae0CauMWR8XuLtpRXofSuf6JG053U18rw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I asked this question on the enthought chaco mailing list some time last by
have yet to receive a reply. Thought I'd ask here to see if anyone could
shed some light on things for me. I have been considering using chaco /
traits for close to a year now and am finally biting the bullet so to
speak. What I would really like to do to begin with is to make a real-time
plotting application which gets its data from the serial port. Can anyone
please point me in the right direction for doing this?

Since I didn't get a reply on the chaco list I'm now thinking it might be a
dangerous route to go down since it will be difficult to get help. Any
recommendations?

Thanks very much,

Jack

-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:14:50 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
In-Reply-To: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>

Why not use the build in wx.FileDialog?

Also, have a look at the demo that comes with wxPython. It has an example with a sortable list control.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:19:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
In-Reply-To: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>

In my box, there are some spaces (tabs?) before "Speed". IMO re.search("Speed", line) will be a more robust.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  1 19:24:34 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Nov 2011 23:24:34 GMT
Subject: proving two formula are same each other!
References: <694c9f55-1f3d-4a20-94dc-74dbf031e8a5@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb07fb2$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 05:03:17 -0700, pyman wrote:

> hello, I need some idea to prove two formula is same.

Impossible. As you explained further on, they are different formula. If 
they are different, they aren't the same. This has nothing to do with 
Python.

In another message, you tell us:

"these formula are completely different each other"

and give the formula:

A formula : f(x,y,z)=3x+4y+2z+3
B formula : f(k,j,t)=2k+3j+2t+1

Perhaps what you mean is that you want to solve for when the two formula 
give equal results? Here's a simpler example:

f(x) = 2x + 1
g(x) = 3x - 2

Solving for x:

f(x) = g(x)
2x + 1 = 3x - 2
1 = 3x - 2 - 2x
1 + 2 = 3x - 2x
3 = x

so the solution is x = 3, f(3) = 7 = g(3).

This is also not easy, since you have SIX variables (x, y, z, k, j, t) 
and only two equations. This is known as an under-determined system, and 
means that there is no exact solution. Perhaps something like Mathematica 
could do something useful with it?

Is there some way you can use the same variables in each formula? For 
example, if x=t, y=j, z=k (or some other combination), then you have a 
simpler three-dimensional problem:

f(x,y,z) = 3x + 4y + 2z + 3
g(x,y,z) = 2z + 3y + 2x + 1

which is still under-determined, but not as badly (now you have three 
variables and only two equations).

In any case, you *might* be able to solve this using numpy. 

http://numpy.scipy.org/


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  1 19:27:44 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:27:44 -0400
Subject: Efficient, built-in way to determine if string has non-ASCII
	chars outside ASCII 32-127, CRLF, Tab?
In-Reply-To: <4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1320090874.6062.140660992866273@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2339.1320097641.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf28f7$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2345.1320108309.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eaf9832$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j8pv9r$mm4$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/2011 2:56 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:44:45 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> [...]
>>> def is_ascii_text(text):
>>>       for c in text:
>>>           if c not in LEGAL:
>>>               return False
>>>       return True
>>
>> If text is 3.x bytes, this does not work ;-). OP did not specify bytes
>> or unicode or Python version.
>
> The OP specified *string*.

A. People sometimes use 'string' loosely, to include text stored in bytes.

B. We are solving slightly different problems. The OP specified 
terabytes of ascii text on disk that he wants to check for 
contamination. For that purpose, using 3.x, it is sensible to read the 
data in binary mode into bytes objects rather than decoding into 
unicode. (The exception would be if the text uses some 7 bit encoding 
like UTF-7. But that is relatively unlikely for disk storage.)

It is irrelevant to that specified purpose whether one calls the 
internal implementation type a 'string' or not. While my 3.2 bytes 
version was only slightly faster, given data in memory, adding decoding 
time for your string version and any other extra overhead for text mode 
reading would make the bytes version look even better.

I am pretty sure the best disk reading speed would come from reading 
blocks of 4k*N, for some N, in binary mode. If the Python code were 
compliled (with Cython, for instance), the process might be input bound, 
depending on the system.

>> 'c in legal' has to get hash(c) and look
>> that up in the hash table, possible skipping around a bit if t If text
>> is byte string rather than unicode, a simple lookup 'mask[c]', where
>> mask is a 0-1 byte array, should be faster (see my other post).
>
> Oooh, clever! I like! It's not necessary to assume bytes, nor is it
> necessary to create a bitmask the size of the entire Unicode range.

You are right; I had been thinking it would be.

> Here's a version for strings (bytes or unicode in Python 2, unicode in
> Python 3):
>
> LEGAL = ''.join(chr(n) for n in range(32, 128)) + '\n\r\t\f'
> MASK = ''.join('\01' if chr(n) in LEGAL else '\0' for n in range(128))
>
> # Untested
> def is_ascii_text(text):
>      for c in text:
>          n = ord(c)
>          if n>= len(MASK) or MASK[n] == '\0': return False
>      return True

> Optimizing it is left as an exercise :)

The test for n >= len() can be accomplished with try:..except IndexError 
around the loop construct. Then the explicit loop can be replaced with 
any(), as before.

> I *suspect*, even with any optimizations, that this will be slower than
> the version using a set.

If you suspect that because of the need with true 'strings' for 
MASK[ord(c)] instead of MASK[c], you are right. Redoing the test runs 
with unicode strings instead of bytes, the set lookup time is about the 
same (9.2 seconds) whereas the 100 000 000 ord() calls add over 4 
seconds to the MASK lookups, raising them up to 13.1 seconds.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:35:10 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:35:10 -0600
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
In-Reply-To: <5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=7R_GkiDDMFkC8LH9DCTH4Cbj7_FxJ6H0enDzHrtOmFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:
> In my box, there are some spaces (tabs?) before "Speed". IMO re.search("Speed", line) will be a more robust.

Or simply:

if "Speed" in line:

There is no need for a regular expression here.  This would also work
and be a bit more discriminating:

if line.strip().startswith("Speed")

BTW, to the OP, note that your condition (line[0:6] == "Speed") cannot
match, since line[0:6] is a 6-character slice, while "Speed" is a
5-character string.

Cheers,
Ian


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  1 19:41:28 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:41:28 -0400
Subject: Module for Python and SGE interaction
In-Reply-To: <CAJbA1KBtVANc6VisqDFttXZ1Z0M==BkigVeSHRnVHct1DHQpwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJbA1KCqCpYn1dAVQ=dA6kTeJoNBLK8P1Fa=JuhHDdm3K2RZvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJbA1KBtVANc6VisqDFttXZ1Z0M==BkigVeSHRnVHct1DHQpwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8q03i$mm4$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/2011 1:31 PM, Abhishek Pratap wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Abhishek Pratap
> <abhishek.vit at gmail.com <mailto:abhishek.vit at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hey Guys
>
>     I shud mention I am relative new to the language. Could you please
>     let me know based on your experience which module could help me with
>     farm out jobs to our existing clusters(we use SGE here) using python.
>
>     Ideally I would like to do the following.
>
>     1. Submit #N jobs to cluster
>     2. monitor their progress
>     3. When all #N finishes, push another set of jobs

Have you searched with Google? on pypi.python.org? with what keywords?

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From Ric at rdo  Tue Nov  1 21:13:17 2011
From: Ric at rdo (Ric at rdo)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:13:17 -0500
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
Message-ID: <p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>

On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:14:50 -0700 (PDT), Miki Tebeka
<miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:

>Why not use the build in wx.FileDialog?
>
>Also, have a look at the demo that comes with wxPython. It has an example with a sortable list control.

Thanks for responding, How would wx.FileDialog help me in this case? I
am trying to display files and directories in the ListCtrl in sorted
way. Folders first followed by files. 


From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov  1 21:23:26 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:23:26 -0400
Subject: sending more then 2 messages to SocketServer fasils
References: <j8b3n3$hi9$1@news.albasani.net>
	<7699e647-98fb-4a6e-aff4-1694d06fd705@h39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb00a7a$0$6560$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <roy-B2F1AB.21232601112011@news.panix.com>

In article <4eb00a7a$0$6560$9b4e6d93 at newsspool4.arcor-online.net>,
 MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:

> Hi people!
> I have asked myself why I am not capable sending 2 messages a time to a
> Socketserver. Why is that?!

There's a lot of confusing code here.  It would help when asking these 
kinds of questions to reduce it down to the smallest possible example 
that demonstrates your problem.  I'm not sure what this MTTest class is 
all about, but I'm guessing it's not essential to demonstrate what's 
going wrong.  Why not just send strings back and forth?

Also, it would help to have names that made more sense.  I have no idea 
what a MKTest is, or what DSX means.  Names like that make it more 
difficult to read your code and understand what you probably intended.

In any case, I think the problem is a basic misunderstanding of how 
stream sockets work.  You're sending hunks of data with send() calls and 
expecting that the recv() calls will get the same data.  That works with 
UDP (datagram sockets), but not TCP.

There are no record boundaries in TCP.  The system could buffer up the 
data from multiple send() calls and deliver them in a single recv().  Or 
break up one send() into multiple recv() calls.  Or any combination.  In 
any particular situation, the system will probably do whatever is most 
inconvenient, confusing, and damaging to your program :-)

My recommendation is to strip out all the test gunk and get it down to 
the bare network calls.  Send some strings back and forth, and print out 
what each send() call is sending and what each recv() call receives.  
Hopefully, things will start to make more sense then.


> 
> 
> Here the Server:
> 
> import SocketServer
> from ast import literal_eval
> 
> class MKTest(object):
>     DSX = []
>     MKTestInst = None
> 
>     def __init__(self,Daten):
>         MKTest.DSX.append(Daten)
> 
>     def getObj(Daten):
>         if MKTest.MKTestInst == None:
>             MKTest.MKTestInst = MKTest(Daten)
>         return MKTest.MKTestInst
> 
>     getObj = staticmethod(getObj)
> 
> class MySockX(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
>     def handle(self):
>         data = self.request.recv(1024)
>         data = literal_eval(data)
>         #MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>         #MKObj = MKTest(data[0])
>         MKObj = MKTest.getObj(data[0])
>         data = MKTest.DSX
>         data = '%s' % data
>         self.request.send(data)
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     HOST, PORT = "localhost", 9999
>     server = SocketServer.TCPServer((HOST,PORT),MySockX)
>     server.serve_forever()
> 
> 
> 
> and the client:
> 
> import socket
> 
> data = [100]
> received = [None,None]
> HOST,PORT = "localhost",9999
> sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> sock.connect((HOST, PORT))
> sock.send('%s' % data)
> received[0] = sock.recv(1024)
> sock.send('%s' % data)
> received[1] = sock.recv(1024)
> sock.close()
> 
> print received
> 
> 
> 
> The result is:
> 
> ['[100]', '']
> 
> 
> 
> who can help me solving this problem
> 
> 
> 
> Tamer


From cosmo_general at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 22:59:10 2011
From: cosmo_general at yahoo.com (Muddy Coder)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:59:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How filecmp walk into subdirectories?
Message-ID: <d0c0b3f4-ce8b-489f-9334-2b5d807f6ed4@es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Folks,


I tried to compare two directories, each with hundreds of files in
multiple level subdirectories, to find out the different files. I used
filecmp module to the job as:


comp=filecmp.dircmp(adir, bdir)
comp.report()

It worked, and printed out the identical and different files. However,
it did not go through the directory trees, just did the job in the
first level. I wonder somebody can help? Thanks in advance!


Cosmo


From gordon at panix.com  Tue Nov  1 23:14:44 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 03:14:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How filecmp walk into subdirectories?
References: <d0c0b3f4-ce8b-489f-9334-2b5d807f6ed4@es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j8qcj4$51e$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <d0c0b3f4-ce8b-489f-9334-2b5d807f6ed4 at es7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> Muddy Coder <cosmo_general at yahoo.com> writes:

> I tried to compare two directories, each with hundreds of files in
> multiple level subdirectories, to find out the different files. I used
> filecmp module to the job as:

> comp=filecmp.dircmp(adir, bdir)
> comp.report()

> It worked, and printed out the identical and different files. However,
> it did not go through the directory trees, just did the job in the
> first level. I wonder somebody can help? Thanks in advance!

report() only prints information on the first-level contents of the two
directores, as you saw.  It doesn't do subdirectories.

If you want subdirectories, use report_full_closure().

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 23:22:57 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a70f8d22-6158-4e57-bfa2-6676ff50931b@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 2, 5:27?am, pacopyc <paco... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have about 10000 files .doc and I want know the program used to
> create them: writer? word? abiword? else? I'd like develop a script
> python to do this. Is there a module to do it? Can you help me?

Word documents store metadata inside of them, one field of which is
the program used to create them. This shows you how to use pywin32 to
access them:

http://www.galalaly.me/index.php/2011/09/use-python-to-parse-microsoft-word-documents-using-pywin32-library/

This won't be a foolproof solution, unfortunately. A random
examination of doc files shows that not all of them have the required
field set.


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  2 00:02:40 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:02:40 +0900
Subject: Question about metaclass
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I want to define a special class which groups functions, like:

    class Greepting(FuncGroup):
        def hello():          # no self, no @staticmethod!
            print("Hello!")
        def goodbye():        # no self, no @staticmethod!
            print("Good Bye!")

    Geeting.hello():    #=> "Hello!"
    Geeting.goodbye():  #=> "Good Bye!"


I tried the following code which converts instance mthods into
static method automatically, but I don't get result what I want.
(python 2.5.5)

    import sys
    from types import FunctionType

    class MetaClass(type):
        def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct):
            ## converts instance methods to static methods automatically
            for k in dct.keys():
                v = dct[k]
                if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
                    dct[k] = staticmethod(v)
                    print("*** debug: dct[%r] = %r" % (k, dct[k]))
#=> <staticmethod object at 0x100378d38>

    class FuncGroup(object):
        __metaclass__ = MetaClass

    class Greeting(FuncGroup):
        def hello():
            print("Hello!")
        def goodbye():
            print("Good Bye!")

    print("*** type(Greeting.hello)=%r" % type(Greeting.hello)
#=> <type 'instancemthod'>
    print("*** type(Greeting.goodbye)=%r" % type(Greeting.goodbye)
#=> <type 'instancemthod'>


Could you give me advice?

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 00:40:17 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:40:17 -0600
Subject: Question about metaclass
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=Q-1=2Dcs5yvURE+UXES1OOvcUW5AdbFpa=qJ2tU-dZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> I tried the following code which converts instance mthods into
> static method automatically, but I don't get result what I want.
> (python 2.5.5)
>
> ? ?import sys
> ? ?from types import FunctionType
>
> ? ?class MetaClass(type):
> ? ? ? ?def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?## converts instance methods to static methods automatically
> ? ? ? ? ? ?for k in dct.keys():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?v = dct[k]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?dct[k] = staticmethod(v)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print("*** debug: dct[%r] = %r" % (k, dct[k]))

If you want to customize the dict you need to do it in __new__, not
__init__.  By the time __init__ is called, the class has already been
created.

class MetaClass(type):
    def __new__(mcs, name, bases, dict):
        for k, v in dict.items():
            if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
                dict[k] = staticmethod(v)
        return type.__new__(mcs, name, bases, dict)

If you were using a more recent Python version, I would suggest using
a class decorator instead of a metaclass.  You can still do this in
Python 2.5, but the syntax will be more awkward.

# Python 2.6+
def FuncGroup(class_):
    for k, v in class_.__dict__.items():
        if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
            setattr(class_, k, staticmethod(v))
    return class_

@FuncGroup
class Greeting(object):
    def hello():
        print("Hello!")

# Python 2.5
class Greeting(object):
    def hello():
        print("Hello!")
Greeting = FuncGroup(Greeting)

Cheers,
Ian


From pmaupin at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 00:42:04 2011
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question about metaclass
References: <mailman.2376.1320206569.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2dbd03f2-c93e-4457-8d57-9cc2ebe5223f@k10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 11:02?pm, Makoto Kuwata <k... at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to define a special class which groups functions, like:
>
> ? ? class Greepting(FuncGroup):
> ? ? ? ? def hello(): ? ? ? ? ?# no self, no @staticmethod!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Hello!")
> ? ? ? ? def goodbye(): ? ? ? ?# no self, no @staticmethod!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Good Bye!")
>
> ? ? Geeting.hello(): ? ?#=> "Hello!"
> ? ? Geeting.goodbye(): ?#=> "Good Bye!"
>
> I tried the following code which converts instance mthods into
> static method automatically, but I don't get result what I want.
> (python 2.5.5)
>
> ? ? import sys
> ? ? from types import FunctionType
>
> ? ? class MetaClass(type):
> ? ? ? ? def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ## converts instance methods to static methods automatically
> ? ? ? ? ? ? for k in dct.keys():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? v = dct[k]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dct[k] = staticmethod(v)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print("*** debug: dct[%r] = %r" % (k, dct[k]))
> #=> <staticmethod object at 0x100378d38>
>
> ? ? class FuncGroup(object):
> ? ? ? ? __metaclass__ = MetaClass
>
> ? ? class Greeting(FuncGroup):
> ? ? ? ? def hello():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Hello!")
> ? ? ? ? def goodbye():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print("Good Bye!")
>
> ? ? print("*** type(Greeting.hello)=%r" % type(Greeting.hello)
> #=> <type 'instancemthod'>
> ? ? print("*** type(Greeting.goodbye)=%r" % type(Greeting.goodbye)
> #=> <type 'instancemthod'>
>
> Could you give me advice?
>
> --
> regards,
> makoto kuwata

I think you need to unwrap the instance methods first:

>>> class foo(object):
...     def bar():
...         print "Hi there"
...
>>> foo.bar2 = staticmethod(foo.bar.im_func)
>>>
>>> foo.bar2()
Hi there
>>>



From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 00:52:16 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:52:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Assign values from list to list of instances
References: <2adc5424-33f1-4ab0-bab0-7fd8742532e4@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<RmUrq.20051$gy7.19921@newsfe28.ams2>
	<mailman.2371.1320183309.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99202d33-48d2-4148-942c-bd2210971b28@s35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 3:33?pm, Terry Reedy wrote:

> > for obj, val in zip(Orders, locus):
> > obj.locus = val
>
> > I'm not sure how worthwhile it is converting the above to a list
> > comprehension (when the list would just be thrown away). Having said
> > that the call to zip creates an unnecessary list.
>
> Not in Py 3

Thanks for that tip, this works well in Py3.

-- Gnarlie


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  2 00:58:41 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:58:41 +0900
Subject: Question about metaclass
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=Q-1=2Dcs5yvURE+UXES1OOvcUW5AdbFpa=qJ2tU-dZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rsu3er6JN1_Jo0awsQMn49jeAKr=Y0qM40AyV7-2rUZjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=Q-1=2Dcs5yvURE+UXES1OOvcUW5AdbFpa=qJ2tU-dZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RsP-q71hGKWkae+f=FpHAcqtDNxgQXpZzvEtj2UMu6=nQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you want to customize the dict you need to do it in __new__, not
> __init__. ?By the time __init__ is called, the class has already been
> created.
>
> class MetaClass(type):
> ? ?def __new__(mcs, name, bases, dict):
> ? ? ? ?for k, v in dict.items():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?dict[k] = staticmethod(v)
> ? ? ? ?return type.__new__(mcs, name, bases, dict)

Great! It works perfectly!


> If you were using a more recent Python version, I would suggest using
> a class decorator instead of a metaclass. ?You can still do this in
> Python 2.5, but the syntax will be more awkward.
>
> # Python 2.6+
> def FuncGroup(class_):
> ? ?for k, v in class_.__dict__.items():
> ? ? ? ?if isinstance(v, FunctionType):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?setattr(class_, k, staticmethod(v))
> ? ?return class_
>
> @FuncGroup
> class Greeting(object):
> ? ?def hello():
> ? ? ? ?print("Hello!")
>
> # Python 2.5
> class Greeting(object):
> ? ?def hello():
> ? ? ? ?print("Hello!")
> Greeting = FuncGroup(Greeting)

This is so good method.
Thank you, Ian.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:50:48 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to mix-in __getattr__ after the fact?
References: <4630c4d0-86bc-4295-8bbb-6f58415191c8@v15g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAAF264.1050307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2298.1319855210.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a66161ab-7f86-43da-840e-c159ea4390f5@v8g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 31, 8:01?am, dhyams <dhy... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for all of the responses; everyone was exactly correct, and
> obeying the binding rules for special methods did work in the example
> above. ?Unfortunately, I only have read-only access to the class
> itself (it was a VTK class wrapped with SWIG), so I had to find
> another way to accomplish what I was after.
>
Please share what you found as the other way.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Nov  2 07:04:35 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:04:35 +0100
Subject: __init__ with multiple list values
In-Reply-To: <1acb0d4c-069b-4356-8a9e-cd5640023c2b@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <1acb0d4c-069b-4356-8a9e-cd5640023c2b@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB123C3.3040406@sequans.com>

Gnarlodious wrote:
> Initializing a list of objects with one value:
>
> class Order:
>  def __init__(self, ratio):
>   self.ratio=ratio
>  def __call__(self):
>   return self.ratio
>
> ratio=[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> Orders=[Order(x) for x in ratio]
>
>
> But now I want to __init__ with 3 values:
>
> class Order:
>  def __init__(self, ratio, bias, locus):
>   self.ratio=ratio
>   self.bias=bias
>   self.locus=locus
>  def __call__(self):
>   return self.ratio, self.bias, self.locus
>
> ratio=[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> bias=[True, False, True, False, True]
> locus=['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E']
> Orders=[Order(x,y,z) for x,y,z in [ratio, bias, locus]]
>
>   
>>>> ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 3)
>>>>         
>
> How to do it?
>
> -- Gnarlie
>   
I'm a little off topic but you may want to avoid having inconsistent 
interfaces for your class methods, especially when it comes to special 
methods like __init__ and __call__.

Having __call__ return a tuple with different length depending on the 
initialization of the object is a bad idea. You will surely end up in 
unpacking error in the future.

Same things for your attributes, the presence of bias is conditioned by 
the object creation... Very bad idea :o)

o1 = Order([1,2,3])
o2 = Order([1,2,3], [4, 5, 6, [7, 8, 9])

print o1.bias
 > Unknown attribute

ratio, bias, locus = o2.call()

ratio, bias, locus = o1.call()
 > Unpacking error


You could do the following :

class Order:
 def __init__(self, ratio, bias=None, locus=None):
  self.ratio=ratio
  self.bias=bias
  self.locus=locus
 def __call__(self):
  return self.ratio, self.bias, self.locus


It would allow you to create your object with just the ratio and keep a 
consistent interface. Unpacking the __call__ return will never fail, and 
if you're interested in keeping only ratios, then you can write

ratio, _, _ = o1.call()

JM

PS : accessing attributes using the __call__ method sounds like a little 
bit of magic for the lazy guy :o) People expect something to be executed 
when calling an object, not getting its attributes. It would be better 
to stick with the classic way : o1.ratio


From pauldavidmena at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 08:44:40 2011
From: pauldavidmena at gmail.com (extraspecialbitter)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 05:44:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<5544686.62.1320189565337.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>
	<mailman.2374.1320190543.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf369507-d09c-4a5f-a93a-27d136ad7636@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 1, 7:35?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Miki Tebeka <miki.teb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In my box, there are some spaces (tabs?) before "Speed". IMO re.search("Speed", line) will be a more robust.
>
> Or simply:
>
> if "Speed" in line:
>
> There is no need for a regular expression here. ?This would also work
> and be a bit more discriminating:
>
> if line.strip().startswith("Speed")
>
> BTW, to the OP, note that your condition (line[0:6] == "Speed") cannot
> match, since line[0:6] is a 6-character slice, while "Speed" is a
> 5-character string.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian

Ian,

Replacing my regular expression with line.strip().startswith did the
trick.  Thanks for the tip!

Paul


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 10:03:09 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:03:09 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
Message-ID: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com>

In our current setup, the script in charge to run our applications also
scan all the directories and if it finds any "pyc" file without the 
corresponding
module, it removes it.

This was done because when you rename something, the old "pyc" remains
there and can cause problems.

Is it the only way possible to scan through and remove all of them or is
there a smarter way?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Nov  2 10:39:19 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:39:19 +0100
Subject: parsing text from "ethtool" command
In-Reply-To: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f0184ea8-96f9-431b-ba1f-990ff58ca2d8@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB15617.4000509@sequans.com>

extraspecialbitter wrote:
> I'm still trying to write that seemingly simple Python script to print
> out network interfaces (as found in the "ifconfig -a" command) and
> their speed ("ethtool <interface>").  The idea is to loop for each
> interface and
> print out its speed.  I'm looping correctly, but have some issues
> parsing the output for all interfaces except for the "pan0"
> interface.  I'm running on eth1, and the "ifconfig -a" command also
> shows an eth0, and of course lo.  My script is trying to match on the
> string "Speed", but I never seem to successfully enter the "if"
> clause.
>
> First, here is the output of "ethtool eth1":
>
> =================
>
> Settings for eth1:
> 	Supported ports: [ TP ]
> 	Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
> 	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
> 	Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
> 	Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
> 	                        100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
> 	Advertised pause frame use: No
> 	Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
> 	Speed: 100Mb/s
> 	Duplex: Full
> 	Port: Twisted Pair
> 	PHYAD: 1
> 	Transceiver: internal
> 	Auto-negotiation: on
> 	MDI-X: off
> 	Supports Wake-on: pumbag
> 	Wake-on: g
> 	Current message level: 0x00000001 (1)
> 	Link detected: yes
>
> =================
>
> The script *should* match on the string "Speed" and then assign "100Mb/
> s" to a variable, but is never getting past the second if statement
> below:
>
> =================
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> # Quick and dirty script to print out available interfaces and their
> speed
>
> # Initializations
>
> output = " Interface: %s Speed: %s"
> noinfo = "(Speed Unknown)"
> speed  = noinfo
>
> import os, socket, types, subprocess
>
> fp = os.popen("ifconfig -a")
> dat=fp.read()
> dat=dat.split('\n')
> for line in dat:
>     if line[10:20] == "Link encap":
>        interface=line[:9]
>        cmd = "ethtool " + interface
>        gp = os.popen(cmd)
>        fat=gp.read()
>        fat=fat.split('\n')
>        for line in fat:
>            if line[0:6] == "Speed":
>                try:
>                    speed=line[8:]
>                except:
>                    speed=noinfo
> print output % (interface, speed)
>
> =================
>
> Again, I appreciate everyone's patience, as I'm obviously I'm a python
> newbie.  Thanks in advance!
>   
Hi, without starting a flamewar about regular expression, they sometimes 
can become usefull and really simplify code:

s1 = """eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:1d:09:2b:d2:be
          inet addr:192.168.200.176  Bcast:192.168.200.255  
Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::21d:9ff:fe2b:d2be/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:297475688 errors:0 dropped:7 overruns:0 frame:2
          TX packets:248662722 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:2795194692 (2.6 GiB)  TX bytes:2702265420 (2.5 GiB)
          Interrupt:17

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:5595504 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:5595504 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:1601266268 (1.4 GiB)  TX bytes:1601266268 (1.4 GiB)

"""

import re

itfs = [section for section in s1.split('\n\n') if section and section 
!= '\n'] # list of interfaces sections, filter the empty sections

for itf in itfs:
    match = re.search('^(\w+)', itf) # search the word at the begining 
of the section
    interface = match and match.group(1)
    match = re.search('MTU:(\d+)', itf) # search for the field MTU: and 
capture its digital value
    mtu = (match and match.group(1)) or 'MTU not found'
    print interface, mtu


 >>> eth0 1500
 >>> lo 16436

If you're not familiar with python regexp, I would advise to use 
kodos.py (google it), it really does help.
The strong point about the code above, is that it removes all the 
tedious if then else logic and the arbitrary slice indexes.

JM

PS : I cannot test the 'Speed' because it's absent from my ifconfig 
display, but you should be able to figure it out :o)


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov  2 11:03:48 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:03:48 +0100
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>

Andrea Crotti wrote:

> In our current setup, the script in charge to run our applications also
> scan all the directories and if it finds any "pyc" file without the
> corresponding
> module, it removes it.
> 
> This was done because when you rename something, the old "pyc" remains
> there and can cause problems.
> 
> Is it the only way possible to scan through and remove all of them or is
> there a smarter way?

Switch to Python3.2 ;)

http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/whatsnew/3.2.html#pep-3147-pyc-repository-directories
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3147/#case-4-legacy-pyc-files-and-source-less-imports




From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 11:08:48 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
In-Reply-To: <p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <28740627.642.1320246528964.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>

wx.FileDialog shows files and directories. If you need the user to pick one, this is the standard way. Otherwise, if you need custom view on the file system then probably list control is the right way to go. Again, the demo has a working example with sortable list control.


From nospam at a.it  Wed Nov  2 11:15:27 2011
From: nospam at a.it (Hanss)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:15:27 +0000
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
Message-ID: <EfWdndUP0Z0NwyzTnZ2dnUVZ8783t52d@siminn.is>

Il 01/11/2011 19.37, tres.bailey at gmail.com ha scritto:
>
> I'm no SQLAlchemy expert, but I have used the Table and Column attribute objects from the model object to solve a similar problem in the past.  You can use the following syntax to do it:
>
> [col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]

Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!


From nospam at a.it  Wed Nov  2 11:17:37 2011
From: nospam at a.it (Gabriele)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:17:37 +0000
Subject: getting columns attributes in declarative style with sqlalchemy
In-Reply-To: <20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
References: <372ac973-575c-466a-9322-a879f099d86a@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<20870384.611.1320176262266.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19>
Message-ID: <EfWdndcP0Z2PwizTnZ2dnUVZ87-qKgAA@siminn.is>

Il 01/11/2011 19.37, tres.bailey at gmail.com ha scritto:
> Sorry for the repost, if it does in fact repost.
>
> I'm no SQLAlchemy expert, but I have used the Table and Column attribute objects from the model object to solve a similar problem in the past.  You can use the following syntax to do it:
>
> [col.name for col in Country.__table__.columns._all_cols]

Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!
Gabriele


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 11:45:43 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:45:43 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2011 03:03 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Switch to Python3.2 ;)

Yes I saw that and it would be great, unfortunately we're stuck with 
Python 2.5 :O
for some more time.

Anyway now the code that does it is a recursive thing ilke
def _clean_orphaned_pycs(self, directory, simulate=False):
     """Remove all the pyc files without a correspondent module
     """
     files = listdir(directory)
     # going down the tree recursively (like os.walk)
     for x in files:
         if x.endswith('.pyc'):
             py_file = x.split('.pyc')[0] + '.py'

             if (not simulate) and (py_file not in files):
                 deletable_pyc = path.join(directory, x)
                 print 'DELETING pyc %s as it has no py %s' % \
                     (deletable_pyc, py_file)
                 remove(deletable_pyc)

         #TODO: move out these special cases
         if path.isdir(path.join(directory, x)) \
             and x != '.svn' \
             and not x.endswith('.egg-info'):

             self._clean_orphaned_pycs(path.join(directory, x))


Can be done much better probably with os.walk or os.path.walk,
any suggestions?


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Nov  2 12:06:37 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:06:37 -0700
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsOQkrVm9tteouB_ro2y6Xtyx2mwew+0FuOtHR6KjZoDg@mail.gmail.com>

If you can at least upgrade to Python 2.6, another option, if you
don't mind losing the byte code caching all together (it may worsen
load times, however probably not significantly), you can set
PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE to prevent the writing of .pyc files.
Alternatively, again in 2.6+, you can also specify the -B command-line
argument. See http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE
and http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-unittest-discover-B

Chris



On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/02/2011 03:03 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
>>
>> Switch to Python3.2 ;)
>
> Yes I saw that and it would be great, unfortunately we're stuck with Python
> 2.5 :O
> for some more time.
>
> Anyway now the code that does it is a recursive thing ilke
> def _clean_orphaned_pycs(self, directory, simulate=False):
> ? ?"""Remove all the pyc files without a correspondent module
> ? ?"""
> ? ?files = listdir(directory)
> ? ?# going down the tree recursively (like os.walk)
> ? ?for x in files:
> ? ? ? ?if x.endswith('.pyc'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?py_file = x.split('.pyc')[0] + '.py'
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if (not simulate) and (py_file not in files):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?deletable_pyc = path.join(directory, x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'DELETING pyc %s as it has no py %s' % \
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(deletable_pyc, py_file)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?remove(deletable_pyc)
>
> ? ? ? ?#TODO: move out these special cases
> ? ? ? ?if path.isdir(path.join(directory, x)) \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?and x != '.svn' \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?and not x.endswith('.egg-info'):
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self._clean_orphaned_pycs(path.join(directory, x))
>
>
> Can be done much better probably with os.walk or os.path.walk,
> any suggestions?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 12:43:53 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:43:53 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxsOQkrVm9tteouB_ro2y6Xtyx2mwew+0FuOtHR6KjZoDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4EB165A7.3050102@gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxsOQkrVm9tteouB_ro2y6Xtyx2mwew+0FuOtHR6KjZoDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB17349.6030100@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2011 04:06 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> If you can at least upgrade to Python 2.6, another option, if you
> don't mind losing the byte code caching all together (it may worsen
> load times, however probably not significantly), you can set
> PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE to prevent the writing of .pyc files.
> Alternatively, again in 2.6+, you can also specify the -B command-line
> argument. See http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE
> and http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-unittest-discover-B
>
> Chris
>

Unfortunately not possible :(
So well the hand-made removal is also fine, maybe if I'm able to run it
as a service it should not impact on the run-time either, which would be
nice...


From Ric at rdo  Wed Nov  2 14:50:00 2011
From: Ric at rdo (Ric at rdo)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:50:00 -0500
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
	<28740627.642.1320246528964.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
Message-ID: <s143b75qs0nkh8jo4qb1qnkcq3ph9g38r9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT), Miki Tebeka
<miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:

>wx.FileDialog shows files and directories. If you need the user to pick one, this is the standard way. Otherwise, if you need custom view on the file system then probably list control is the right way to go. Again, the demo has a working example with sortable list control.

Thanks,

Do you know if List control has an click event that if you double
click on a directory displayed in the control an action can occur? 
Sorry if its right there but I just did not see.


From vonkes at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 15:21:03 2011
From: vonkes at gmail.com (vonkes)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 12:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: understand program used to create file
References: <f59ced9b-679f-42e8-80c8-c8e00f1683a2@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a70f8d22-6158-4e57-bfa2-6676ff50931b@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <46219926-741e-407d-8773-8a5efa81dbc3@q13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

Ho trovato questo script in una directory dove sono conservati molti
demo per python non era funzionante,sono riuscito a capirne le
finalit? e cos? l'ho reso funzionante.
Esamina un file di testo e analizza il carattere di fine riga. le
possibilit? dipendono dal sistema operativo usato. Nei file di testo
sotto S.O. Unix il carattere di fine riga in genere ? un CR o carriage
return. Sotto Mac questo carattere in genere ? un LF linee feed
mentre sotto s.o. windows in genere ? CRLF sulla base di ci?
l'applicativo osserva tutti i fine riga e ne fa un confronto.
Osservando il sorgente si dovrebbe comprendere come il controllo viene
fatto.
Nell'ipotesi che ci si voglia divertire e non si dia un nome di file o
si dia un nome inesistente, l'applicativo fa il controllo su se stesso
e poi da le risposte.
Provate:
ecco il sorgente:
__________ inizio applicativo______________
!/usr/bin/python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
"""Controlla file di testo -
    Controlla quale sia  il carattere di fine riga per determinarne lo
stile
    Se la riga termina   con CR   abbiamo lo stile UNIX
    Se  "   "        "          "   LF    abbiamo lo stile MAC
    Se  "   "        "          "   CRLF abbiamo lo stile Win/MS-Dos
    Mettiamo una alternativa all'inserimento del file aggiungiamo
    una parte di codice che nel caso non venga indicato un nome
    di file o ne indicassimo uno mancante o assente, vada a cercare il
file
    dal quale siamo partiti cioe' questo stesso che dovrebbe essere
contenuto
    nella variabile argv che come e' noto e' una lista di parametri
passati dalla
    linea di comando e il primo elemento della lista e' proprio il
nome di questo
    applicativo che seppure non ? il classico file di testo anch'esso
ha i caratteri
    di fine riga esattamente come quelli dei classici file di testo e
quindi possiamo
    esaminarli per decidere quale stile seguono.
  """
#---------- fine commento-------------
import sys,os

import string
def Message(parametro):
	#print "\nquesta e' la funzione che stampera' Il parametro ricevuto"
	print "\n:",parametro

def ChiediFiledaAprire(message):
	print "\n"+message
	nome = raw_input( "\ninserisci il nome di un file di testo completo
di estensione \n: ")
	return nome

#pathname = sys.path
#print "pathname=",pathname
def main():
	#print os.listdir(sys.path[0])
	while True:
		name = ChiediFiledaAprire(message='Per controllo del carattere di
fine linea presente nel file')
		if name == "":
			print "Poiche non hai digitato alcun nome il controllo lo
effettuer??\
			il controllo sul file "+ sys.argv[0]
			name = sys.argv[0];break
		elif not name:
			print "Attenzione !! Il nome file digitato  non esiste, effettuer??
			controllo sul file "+sys.argv[0] +" che ?n esecuzione "
			name = sys.argv[0];break
		else:
			break
	fp = open(name, 'rb')

	try:
		data = fp.read()
		#print "nel file",name," abbiamo trovato",data
	except MemoryError:
		Message("Attenzione, Il file e' troppo grande.")
		sys.exit(0)
	if len(data) == 0:
		Message('Il File e vuoto.')
		sys.exit(0)
	number_cr = string.count(data, '\r')
	number_lf = string.count(data, '\n')
	if number_cr == number_lf == 0:
		Message('Nel File '+name+' manca il carattere di fine riga.')
	if number_cr != 0 and chr(10) not in data:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta lo style unix con fine riga =
CR')
	elif number_lf != 0 and   chr(13) not in data:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta lo style mac con fine riga = LF')
	elif number_cr == number_lf:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta lo style Win/MS-Dos con fine riga
=CRLF')
	else:
		Message('Il File '+name+' presenta un fine riga non riconosciuto
(binary file?)')
	sys.exit(0)

#----------------fine applicativo----------
Ciao vonkes



From Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Nov  2 15:31:48 2011
From: Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov (Catherine Moroney)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:31:48 -0700
Subject: fast copying of large files in python
Message-ID: <j8s5r5$leq$1@news.jpl.nasa.gov>

Hello,

I'm working on an application that as part of its processing, needs to 
copy 50 Meg binary files from one NFS mounted disk to another.

The simple-minded approach of shutil.copyfile is very slow, and I'm 
guessing that this is due to the default 16K buffer size.  Using
shtil.copyfileobj is faster when I set a larger buffer size, but it's
still slow compared to a "os.system("cp %s %s" % (f1,f2))" call.
Is this because of the overhead entailed in having to open the files
in copyfileobj?

I'm not worried about portability, so should I just do the
os.system call as described above and be done with it?  Is that the
fastest method in this case?  Are there any "pure python" ways of
getting the same speed as os.system?

Thanks,

Catherine


From macmanes at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 17:13:34 2011
From: macmanes at gmail.com (Matt)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
Message-ID: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

Hi All, 

I am trying to do a really simple file operation, yet, it befuddles me...

I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to manipulate the data, then save back to the original file. The code below will open up the files, and do the proper manipulations-- but I can't seem to save the files after the manipulation.. 

How can I save the files-- or do I need to try something else maybe with split, join, etc..
 

import os
import csv
for filename in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/blast"):
	with open(filename, 'rw') as f:
		reader = csv.reader(f)
		for row in reader:
			print ">",row[0],row[4],"\n",row[1], "\n", ">", row[2], "\n", row[3]



Thanks in advance, Matt


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov  2 17:26:16 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:26:16 -0400
Subject: fast copying of large files in python
In-Reply-To: <j8s5r5$leq$1@news.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <j8s5r5$leq$1@news.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <4EB1B578.801@davea.name>

On 11/02/2011 03:31 PM, Catherine Moroney wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm working on an application that as part of its processing, needs to 
> copy 50 Meg binary files from one NFS mounted disk to another.
>
> The simple-minded approach of shutil.copyfile is very slow, and I'm 
> guessing that this is due to the default 16K buffer size.  Using
> shtil.copyfileobj is faster when I set a larger buffer size, but it's
> still slow compared to a "os.system("cp %s %s" % (f1,f2))" call.
> Is this because of the overhead entailed in having to open the files
> in copyfileobj?
>
> I'm not worried about portability, so should I just do the
> os.system call as described above and be done with it?  Is that the
> fastest method in this case?  Are there any "pure python" ways of
> getting the same speed as os.system?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Catherine

I suspect the fastest way would be to use scp, and not try to use your 
local mount for either file.  There are some options on scp that tell it 
to just connect the (up to) two machines to each other and transfer, 
where it won't even come to your local machine.

I do that sort of thing when I'm connecting over slow internet (and vpn) 
to two machines that are on the same local subnet.

-- 

DaveA



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Nov  2 19:06:39 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:06:39 -0500
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
In-Reply-To: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
References: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
Message-ID: <4EB1CCFF.4050208@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/02/11 16:13, Matt wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am trying to do a really simple file operation, yet, it befuddles me...
>
> I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to manipulate the data, then save back to the original file. The code below will open up the files, and do the proper manipulations-- but I can't seem to save the files after the manipulation..
>
> How can I save the files-- or do I need to try something else maybe with split, join, etc..
>
>
> import os
> import csv
> for filename in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/blast"):
> 	with open(filename, 'rw') as f:
> 		reader = csv.reader(f)
> 		for row in reader:
> 			print ">",row[0],row[4],"\n",row[1], "\n",">", row[2], "\n", row[3]

Your last line just prints the data to standard-out.  You can 
either pipe the output to a file:

   python myprog.py > output.txt

or you can write them to a single output file:

   out = file('output.txt', 'w')
   for filename in os.listdir(...):
     with open(filename, 'rw') as f:
       reader = csv.reader(f)
       for row in reader:
         out.write(">%s%s\n%s\n>%s\n>%s\n%s" % (
           row[0], row[4], row[1], row[2], row[3]))

or you can write them to output files on a per-input basis:

   for filename in os.listdir(SOURCE_LOC):
     with open(filename, 'r') as f:
       outname = os.path.join(
         DEST_LOC,
         os.path.basename(filename),
         )
       with file(outname, 'wb') as out:
         for row in reader:
           out.write(">%s%s\n%s\n>%s\n>%s\n%s" % (
             row[0], row[4], row[1], row[2], row[3]))

-tkc







From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  2 19:50:36 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:50:36 -0400
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
In-Reply-To: <j8sie6$69p$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
	<j8sie6$69p$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j8sl0n$mn7$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/2/2011 7:06 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT), Matt<macmanes at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to
>> manipulate the data, then save back to the original file.

That is dangerous. Better to replace the file with a new one of the same 
name.

> Option 1:	Read the file completely into memory (your example is
> reading line by line); close the reader and its file; reopen the
> file for "wb" (delete, create new); open CSV writer on that file;
> write the memory contents.

and lose data if your system crashes or freezes during the write.

> Option 2:	Open a temporary file "wb"; open a CSV writer on the file;
> for each line from the reader, update the data, send to the writer;
> at end of reader, close reader and file; delete original file;
> rename temporary file to the original name.

This works best if new file is given a name related to the original 
name, in case rename fails. Alternative is to rename original x to 
x.bak, write or rename new file, then delete .bak file.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From fzadrozny at appcelerator.com  Wed Nov  2 19:52:44 2011
From: fzadrozny at appcelerator.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:52:44 -0200
Subject: PyDev 2.2.4 Released
Message-ID: <CANXBEFq5DErHrsGELnRFjDbaOyup3JUAgzo3KQ=5ChdKMK=XPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

PyDev 2.2.4 has been released

Details on PyDev: http://pydev.org
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com

Release Highlights:
-------------------------------


**Cython**

    * Cython is now supported in PyDev (.pyx files may be opened with
the PyDev editor).


**Globals Token Browser (Ctrl+Shift+T)**

    * Packages/Modules can now be reached through the globals browser
(so, __init__.py files can now be easily gotten through the package
they represent)


**Handling external files**

    * External libraries configured in a project appearing in the
PyDev Package Explorer
    * Show in > PyDev Package Explorer working for files that are
under the interpreter or external libraries.
    * Show in > PyDev Package Explorer working for files inside .zip archives.
    * External files that were opened when Eclipse is closed are
properly reopened.

**Editor**

    * New option in the code-formatter to only apply code-formatting
on changed lines on save.
    * from __future__ import now properly appears as first even if
grouping is enabled.
    * it's now possible to have a minimap of the code in the overview
ruler (enable in preferences > PyDev > Editor > Overview Ruler
Minimap).

**Unittest runner**

    * exc_clear() no longer called if it's not available.
    * Fixed issue where class tearDown was executed twice.


**Debugger**

    * It's now possible to enable/disable stepping into properties
while in the debugger. Menu: Run > Disable step into properties (patch
by Hussain Bohra)
    * Show in outline view activated in debug perspective  (patch by
Hussain Bohra)
    * Watch expressions can be properly expanded in the watch view
(patch by Hussain Bohra)
    * Breakpoints in external files are properly shown.
    * Remote debugger: starting the remote debugger no longer shows a
launch configuration
    * Remote debugger: when the server is stopped, the server socket
is properly closed


**Minors**

    * Fixed issue in rename (Alt+Shift+R) / find references
(Ctrl+Shift+G) on top level module variables.
    * Fixed issue where create class/method/field action was not ok
because of comment.
    * Fixed issue where doing create class/method/field action on file
with tabs ended up adding spaces.




What is PyDev?
---------------------------

PyDev is a plugin that enables users to use Eclipse for Python, Jython
and IronPython development -- making Eclipse a first class Python IDE
-- It comes with many goodies such as code completion, syntax
highlighting, syntax analysis, refactor, debug and many others.


Cheers,

-- 
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

Appcelerator
http://appcelerator.com/

Aptana
http://aptana.com/

PyDev - Python Development Environment for Eclipse
http://pydev.org
http://pydev.blogspot.com


From radha at leapship.com  Wed Nov  2 20:05:47 2011
From: radha at leapship.com (Radhika Bauerle)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:05:47 -0700
Subject: Full time Job opening -Python lead in washington area.
Message-ID: <CADYi+XsjL5gm=fpTv9fSceRxsYY=PSBLWCUA6qQQz+ZjC8OvLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello eveyone:

we are looking for a Python lead in washington area.

Strong on Python
Strong on OOAD
Worked on high performance web application



Cheers,
Radhika Bauerle.
Leapship, Inc.
radha at leapship.com
408.355.8462


-- 
Radhika Bauerle.
Leapship, Inc.
radha at leapship.com
408.355.8462
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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 20:06:33 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:06:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sort items in wxListCtrl
In-Reply-To: <s143b75qs0nkh8jo4qb1qnkcq3ph9g38r9@4ax.com>
References: <4uh0b79l43lb2hamit7jjbt4c1ligu8shb@4ax.com>
	<27515703.32.1320189290076.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<p561b7le66ju6mu7q96jgl23l2ou515q21@4ax.com>
	<28740627.642.1320246528964.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>
	<s143b75qs0nkh8jo4qb1qnkcq3ph9g38r9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15871079.2079.1320278793045.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

You probably want wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, see the ListCtrl demo in the wx demo.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Nov  2 20:47:02 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simple file flow question with csv.reader
References: <16701610.1994.1320268414468.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
	<j8sie6$69p$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2391.1320277867.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e0fc699-1047-41c6-8387-b9f402e98e2a@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 2, 11:50?pm, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 11/2/2011 7:06 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT), Matt<macma... at gmail.com>
> > declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >> I have a few hundred .csv files, and to each file, I want to
> >> manipulate the data, then save back to the original file.
>
> That is dangerous. Better to replace the file with a new one of the same
> name.
>
> > Option 1: ?Read the file completely into memory (your example is
> > reading line by line); close the reader and its file; reopen the
> > file for "wb" (delete, create new); open CSV writer on that file;
> > write the memory contents.
>
> and lose data if your system crashes or freezes during the write.
>
> > Option 2: ?Open a temporary file "wb"; open a CSV writer on the file;
> > for each line from the reader, update the data, send to the writer;
> > at end of reader, close reader and file; delete original file;
> > rename temporary file to the original name.
>
> This works best if new file is given a name related to the original
> name, in case rename fails. Alternative is to rename original x to
> x.bak, write or rename new file, then delete .bak file.
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy

To the OP, I agree with Terry, but will add my 2p.

What is this meant to achieve?

>>> row = range(10)
>>>
print ">",row[0],row[4],"\n",row[1], "\n", ">", row[2], "\n", row[3]
> 0 4
1
> 2
3

Is something meant to read this afterwards?

I'd personally create a subdir called db, create a sqlite3 db, then
load all the required fields into it (with a column for filename)...
it will either work or fail, then if it succeeds, start overwriting
the originals - just a "select * from some_table" will do, using
itertools.groupby on the filename column, changing the open() request
etc...

just my 2p mind you,

Jon.








From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Nov  3 02:59:48 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 07:59:48 +0100
Subject: Full time Job opening -Python lead in washington area.
In-Reply-To: <CADYi+XsjL5gm=fpTv9fSceRxsYY=PSBLWCUA6qQQz+ZjC8OvLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYi+XsjL5gm=fpTv9fSceRxsYY=PSBLWCUA6qQQz+ZjC8OvLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8te54$v5s$1@dough.gmane.org>

Radhika Bauerle, 03.11.2011 01:05:
> Hello eveyone:

Well, and here's the problem already: "everyone".

Note that it's commonly considered inappropriate to post job offers on this 
list. Please use the Python job board instead:

http://python.org/community/jobs/

(easy to find by clicking on "python jobs" on the Python.org front page)

Stefan



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:49:35 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

A task like this is more suited to bash than Python:

find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:49:35 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

A task like this is more suited to bash than Python:

find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:50:37 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33506962.66.1320306638033.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15>

This can be added to git as a post-checkout hook:

In your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'




From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 03:50:37 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33506962.66.1320306638033.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15>

This can be added to git as a post-checkout hook:

In your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'




From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 04:45:53 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 01:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <17659765.658.1320309953278.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnv12>

This can be added to your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov  3 04:45:53 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 01:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2397.1320306585.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <17659765.658.1320309953278.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnv12>

This can be added to your project's .git/hooks/post-checkout:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
cd ./$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'



From jacob.abraham at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 05:22:57 2011
From: jacob.abraham at gmail.com (Jacob Abraham)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:52:57 +0530
Subject: Paramiko Question
Message-ID: <CAC11ra14OvaerSdUo3gh4J7Xw8O6LGK3bchP0TzuHc3CtVB-pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

      I need help with the below mentioned script. The second time I
call a.execute, self.transport.open_session() fails with an EOF error.
Is this a paramiko bug or am I doing something wrong?


import paramiko

class Connection(object):
    def __init__(self, host, username = None, password = None,
private_key = None, \
                 port = 22):
        self.transport = paramiko.Transport((host, port))
        self.live = True
        self.transport.connect(username = username, password = password)

    def execute(self, command):
        channel = self.transport.open_session()
        channel.exec_command(command)
        output = channel.makefile('rb', -1).readlines()
        if output:
            print output
        else:
            print channel.makefile_stderr('rb', -1).readlines()

    def close(self):
        if self.live:
            self.transport.close()
            self.live = False

    def __del__(self):
        self.close()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    a= Connection('ip_or_hostname', 'root', '')
    print a.execute('version')
    print a.execute('version')
    print a.execute('version')
    a.close()


Regards,
Jacob Abraham


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 05:56:40 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:56:40 +0000
Subject: Chaco for real-time plot of PySerial data
In-Reply-To: <CAAdqOWGhLBz=a-69Qae0CauMWR8XuLtpRXofSuf6JG053U18rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAdqOWGhLBz=a-69Qae0CauMWR8XuLtpRXofSuf6JG053U18rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j8togo$1vq$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/1/11 10:27 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I asked this question on the enthought chaco mailing list some time last by have
> yet to receive a reply. Thought I'd ask here to see if anyone could shed some
> light on things for me. I have been considering using chaco / traits for close
> to a year now and am finally biting the bullet so to speak. What I would really
> like to do to begin with is to make a real-time plotting application which gets
> its data from the serial port. Can anyone please point me in the right direction
> for doing this?
>
> Since I didn't get a reply on the chaco list I'm now thinking it might be a
> dangerous route to go down since it will be difficult to get help. Any
> recommendations?

I'm sorry we didn't respond to you. The chaco-users mailing list is not 
well-subscribed or well-trafficked, but the enthought-dev at enthought.com mailing 
list is. We haven't done a good job of letting new people know they should be on 
the chaco-users list to answer questions or updating the documentation to point 
users to enthought-dev instead.

Anyways, to answer your question, we have several examples of how one sets up a 
plot then updates it with new data:

https://github.com/enthought/chaco/tree/master/examples/demo/updating_plot

I can't help much with the PySerial part, I'm afraid. Integrating that with the 
GUI event loop is probably going to be the trickiest bit.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From landa.martin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 06:07:36 2011
From: landa.martin at gmail.com (Martin Landa)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 03:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
Message-ID: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
`ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
error. It causes that the python application crashes even without any
notification. Is it possible to catch library system exit calls from
such python application?

Thanks in advance, Martin


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 06:19:24 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 21:19:24 +1100
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGckV5bhwjw49scf9V_VK41BWMSXMzhv4jTAQ67j9sAgoA@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon,

I'm building a large e-commerce site, and it is very important that
what I write can:
- Handle larger server load
- Deliver pages quickly
- Make transactions quickly

as well as have a small development time (i.e. pre-built modules for
e-commerce are available, and extendible).

Are there recent accessible statistics available, comparing these
metrics across the most popular web-frameworks? (i.e. Symfony, DJango,
Rails, ASP.NET &etc)

Thanks for all suggestions,

Alec Taylor


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov  3 06:51:48 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 11:51:48 +0100
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
Message-ID: <j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jonathan Hartley wrote:

> A task like this is more suited to bash than Python:
> 
> find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm '{}' ';'

You forgot to exclude the .svn directory from the search and didn't limit 
the deletion to pyc-files whose corresponding py-file doesn't exist.

How would your line look with these modifications?



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov  3 07:32:35 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Nov 2011 11:32:35 GMT
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9F92741A7F7E1duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Martin Landa <landa.martin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
> error. It causes that the python application crashes even without any
> notification. Is it possible to catch library system exit calls from
> such python application?
> 
> Thanks in advance, Martin

There is no safe way to do this. An unsafe way would be to install an 
atexit() handler and longjmp out of it, but that would mess up any other 
atexit processing and quite likely crash the program. Or you could just 
move the essential cleanup into atexit() but not attempt to stop the 
program termination.

The clean (but not necessarily easy) solution would be to move all of the 
code that uses the library into a separate subprocess and then you can 
catch and handle the subprocess exiting in your main code.


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov  3 08:28:17 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:28:17 +0100
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
In-Reply-To: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <10eao8-84g.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 03.11.2011 11:07, schrieb Martin Landa:
> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
> error.

Just curious, which library is that?

Uli


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov  3 10:16:50 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:16:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<10eao8-84g.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <j8u7oi$pnh$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-03, Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> Am 03.11.2011 11:07, schrieb Martin Landa:
>> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
>> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
>> error.
>
> Just curious, which library is that?

And who should we have thrashed and pilloried for writing it that way?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! BARRY ... That was
                                  at               the most HEART-WARMING
                              gmail.com            rendition of "I DID IT MY
                                                   WAY" I've ever heard!!


From brandon.harris at reelfx.com  Thu Nov  3 10:42:08 2011
From: brandon.harris at reelfx.com (Brandon Harris)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:42:08 -0500
Subject: Python Pickling Issue
Message-ID: <4EB2A840.5060108@reelfx.com>

I have written a fairly large DAG with python and I've run into an issue 
when attempting to pickle the data to disk.
It will pickle fine the first time, but if I call pickle again, it 
throws this error.

/usr/lib64/python2.6/copy_reg.py in _reduce_ex(self, proto)
      68     else:
      69         if base is self.__class__:
---> 70             raise TypeError, "can't pickle %s objects" % 
base.__name__
      71         state = base(self)
      72     args = (self.__class__, base, state)

TypeError: can't pickle function objects

I'm calling
save_file = open('my_file.rsf', 'w')
cPickle.dump(self, save_file)

I have attempted to pickle the object to a different file after the 
first time, but the error is still thrown.

This wouldn't be very hard to track down if the error gave any 
indication as to where or what this function it can't pickle is, so
if there's any possible way to at least get the name of what's failing 
to be pickled, that would be a win.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Brandon L. Harris



From brandon.harris at reelfx.com  Thu Nov  3 10:58:51 2011
From: brandon.harris at reelfx.com (Brandon Harris)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:58:51 -0500
Subject: Python Pickling Issue
In-Reply-To: <4EB2A840.5060108@reelfx.com>
References: <4EB2A840.5060108@reelfx.com>
Message-ID: <4EB2AC2B.3050301@reelfx.com>

After digging around a while I discovered I was attempting to pickle a 
third party class that can't be pickled. Initially I was removing it 
before pickling and everything was kosher, but at some point it got back 
onto the class. Apologies.

Brandon L. Harris


On 11/03/2011 09:42 AM, Brandon Harris wrote:
> I have written a fairly large DAG with python and I've run into an 
> issue when attempting to pickle the data to disk.
> It will pickle fine the first time, but if I call pickle again, it 
> throws this error.
>
> /usr/lib64/python2.6/copy_reg.py in _reduce_ex(self, proto)
>      68     else:
>      69         if base is self.__class__:
> ---> 70             raise TypeError, "can't pickle %s objects" % 
> base.__name__
>      71         state = base(self)
>      72     args = (self.__class__, base, state)
>
> TypeError: can't pickle function objects
>
> I'm calling
> save_file = open('my_file.rsf', 'w')
> cPickle.dump(self, save_file)
>
> I have attempted to pickle the object to a different file after the 
> first time, but the error is still thrown.
>
> This wouldn't be very hard to track down if the error gave any 
> indication as to where or what this function it can't pickle is, so
> if there's any possible way to at least get the name of what's failing 
> to be pickled, that would be a win.
>
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
> Brandon L. Harris
>



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Nov  3 11:38:33 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 15:38:33 +0000
Subject: Paramiko Question
In-Reply-To: <CAC11ra14OvaerSdUo3gh4J7Xw8O6LGK3bchP0TzuHc3CtVB-pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC11ra14OvaerSdUo3gh4J7Xw8O6LGK3bchP0TzuHc3CtVB-pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB2B579.5060901@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 03/11/2011 09:22, Jacob Abraham wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>        I need help with the below mentioned script. The second time I
> call a.execute, self.transport.open_session() fails with an EOF error.
> Is this a paramiko bug or am I doing something wrong?
>
>
> import paramiko
>
> class Connection(object):
>      def __init__(self, host, username = None, password = None,
> private_key = None, \
>                   port = 22):
>          self.transport = paramiko.Transport((host, port))
>          self.live = True
>          self.transport.connect(username = username, password = password)
>
>      def execute(self, command):
>          channel = self.transport.open_session()
>          channel.exec_command(command)
>          output = channel.makefile('rb', -1).readlines()
>          if output:
>              print output
>          else:
>              print channel.makefile_stderr('rb', -1).readlines()
>
>      def close(self):
>          if self.live:
>              self.transport.close()
>              self.live = False
>
>      def __del__(self):
>          self.close()
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      a= Connection('ip_or_hostname', 'root', '')
>      print a.execute('version')
>      print a.execute('version')
>      print a.execute('version')
>      a.close()
>
I notice that in the 'execute' method you're opening the session, but 
not closing it.
Could that be the cause of the problem?

I also notice that in that method you're printing the output, not 
returning it, but when you call the execute method you're trying to
print the result, which will be None.


From davidj411 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 12:48:58 2011
From: davidj411 at gmail.com (davidj411)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AIX installation can't find zlib
In-Reply-To: <20000728185514.E266@xs4all.nl>
References: <8ls045$1522$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>
	<20000728185514.E266@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5936806.117.1320338938935.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

we using RPM to install python 2.7.x and same issue there, can't import gzip b/c zlib is missing. we used RPM to install zlib, but did not effect python.
you mentioned modules and uncommenting something. could you be more specific? 
also , we are not compiling. would that be required for python after uncommenting zlib?


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 13:54:52 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:54:52 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>

All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately
- it's svn not git
- it's windows not *nix
- we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...


From bkamrani at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:13:43 2011
From: bkamrani at gmail.com (Behnam)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
Message-ID: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
america?

I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
python. Any idea?

BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.

Thanks in advance!


From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:29:14 2011
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:29:14 -0600
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7DDJPYNpM5WAM07CEibSppcn7yWc=0R2VOH3rHq=dvm0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamrani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
> america?
>
> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
> python. Any idea?

While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
the Python site):

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining

I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
outstanding courses.  Only David is listed on that page to which I
linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
 I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
fantastic.

-eric


>
> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From scottdware at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:46:54 2011
From: scottdware at gmail.com (Scott Ware)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:46:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
Message-ID: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

Python newbie here. So, when creating dictionaries, I am noticing that each time I print it out, that its not in the same order as when I typed it in. They seem to be getting sorted somehow. Is there a way to not sort them and leave the order as is?

Thanks!


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov  3 14:57:27 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 18:57:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at yqhd1> Scott Ware <scottdware at gmail.com> writes:

> Python newbie here. So, when creating dictionaries, I am noticing that
> each time I print it out, that its not in the same order as when I typed
> it in. They seem to be getting sorted somehow. Is there a way to not sort
> them and leave the order as is?

Dictionaries don't maintain the order of the items.

If you want to keep track of the order in which the items were inserted,
you'll need to do that yourself using a separate mechanism (a list, for
example.)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From scottdware at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 15:00:27 2011
From: scottdware at gmail.com (Scott Ware)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9836933.743.1320346827670.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>

Great! Thanks, John for the quick response!


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Thu Nov  3 15:13:46 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:13:46 -0700
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <9836933.743.1320346827670.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8uo6n$gu6$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<9836933.743.1320346827670.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsUnJD5WY+SJMUBuwn60njRtAi5EvWW0bD_xzzVSsCMHg@mail.gmail.com>

Note that there are a number of recipes available for free online, and
if you are using a newer version of Python (2.7 or higher), the
collections module includes an OrderedDict class
(http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.OrderedDict
- this also include a library for Python 2.4 and higher as well). Note
that there are a lot of different possible behaviors, so any
particular recipe may or may not behave exactly as you desire.

Chris



On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Scott Ware <scottdware at gmail.com> wrote:
> Great! Thanks, John for the quick response!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From insomnia at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 16:01:36 2011
From: insomnia at gmail.com (insomnia at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 13:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <19322439.785.1320350496479.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>

Moreover, for on-the-fly ordering you can consider to use sorted() on yourdict.keys(), like:

for k in sorted(yourdict.keys()):
    print k, yourdict[k]

I think it has no side effects, except that the orderering can be slow on huge data sets, and that you need to call it every time after updating the dict keys.

Regards,
insomniac


From Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Nov  3 17:15:19 2011
From: Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov (Catherine Moroney)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:15:19 -0700
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB30467.5050905@jpl.nasa.gov>

I've taken two Python classes from David Beazley and can second
Eric's recommendation.  The "advanced" class is really advanced
and goes into some pretty mind-blowing stuff.  The class comes with
lots of problems and solutions, and a book of all the slides which are
a great reference.  Well worth the time and money!

Catherine

Eric Snow wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamrani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
>> america?
>>
>> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
>> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
>> python. Any idea?
> 
> While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
> the Python site):
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining
> 
> I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
> David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
> outstanding courses.  Only David is listed on that page to which I
> linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
>  I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
> fantastic.
> 
> -eric
> 
> 
>> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>


From Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Nov  3 17:18:20 2011
From: Catherine.M.Moroney at jpl.nasa.gov (Catherine Moroney)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:18:20 -0700
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB3051C.2010202@jpl.nasa.gov>

I've taken two Python classes from David Beazley and can second
Eric's recommendation.  The "advanced" class is really advanced
and goes into some pretty mind-blowing stuff.  The class comes with
lots of problems and solutions, and a book of all the slides which are
a great reference.  Well worth the time and money!

Catherine

Eric Snow wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamrani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
>> america?
>>
>> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
>> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
>> python. Any idea?
> 
> While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
> the Python site):
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining
> 
> I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
> David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
> outstanding courses.  Only David is listed on that page to which I
> linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
>  I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
> fantastic.
> 
> -eric
> 
> 
>> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Nov  3 17:25:03 2011
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:25:03 -0700
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
In-Reply-To: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j8v0ng$uon$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/3/2011 11:13 AM Behnam said...
> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
> america?
>
> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
> python. Any idea?

This list works well for that.  Try answering all OOP related questions 
as completely as possible and provide example code.  Those that know the 
difference will promptly point out the improved and generally preferred 
approaches.  When no one corrects you, you're done.

Only-slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly y'rs,

Emile



From lconrad at Go2France.com  Thu Nov  3 17:28:34 2011
From: lconrad at Go2France.com (Len Conrad)
Date: Thu,  3 Nov 2011 22:28:34 +0100
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
Message-ID: <201111032228.AA278266012@mail.Go2France.com>


http://www.dabeaz.com/pythonmaster.html


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com>
Date:  Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:25:03 -0700

>On 11/3/2011 11:13 AM Behnam said...
>> Anybody is aware of any advanced course in Python preferably in north
>> america?
>>
>> I've been partly coding in Python for couple of years now and have
>> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
>> python. Any idea?
>
>This list works well for that.  Try answering all OOP related questions 
>as completely as possible and provide example code.  Those that know the 
>difference will promptly point out the improved and generally preferred 
>approaches.  When no one corrects you, you're done.
>
>Only-slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly y'rs,
>
>Emile
>
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 17:36:15 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:36:15 +1100
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org> <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp4ouW5_YZF7TGrYUbSVffmoW6mNGXGdqOt_HjM-w8sHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately
> - it's svn not git
> - it's windows not *nix
> - we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...

Windows? Well, Windows shell scripting isn't quite as rich as
bash/csh/etc, but it's possible. I'll leave recursion as an exercise
for the reader, but this (untested) should do it for one directory:

for %d in (*.pyc) do (
set fn=%d
if not exist !fn:~0,-1! del %d
)

This needs to be run with 'cmd /v' to enable delayed variable
evaluation. Of course, it'd be really easy to do if Windows Batch had
anything like decent string manipulation.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov  3 17:36:25 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:36:25 -0400
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/3/2011 2:46 PM, Scott Ware wrote:
> Python newbie here. So, when creating dictionaries, I am noticing
> that each time I print it out, that its not in the same order as when
> I typed it in. They seem to be getting sorted somehow.

No, the entries are not being sorted at all.

 > Is there a way to not sort them and leave the order as is?

CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal 
hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the 
items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.

If you want to keep the dict sorted by entry order (as far as the user 
view goes), use collections.OrderedDict.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 18:24:09 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 22:24:09 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>

Try this out (Python 3.2.2 (default, Sep  5 2011, 04:52:19)):

global_variable = None
> (lambda *, keyword_only=global_variable: None)             # Works, as
> expected
> (lambda: (lambda argument=global_variable: None))()        # Works, as
> expected
> (lambda: (lambda *, keyword_only=global_variable: None))() # Fails???
> (lambda: (lambda argument=fake_variable: None))()          # Fails, as
> expected
> (lambda: (lambda *, keyword_only=fake_variable: None))()   # Fails???


Non-lambdas work as expected, but a lambda inside a non-lambda still
exhibits this behaviour.

Conclusion:
When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are inside
non-global scopes, cPython is unable to access the global scope and raises
SystemError.
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Nov  3 19:01:38 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 18:01:38 -0500
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EB31D52.3080707@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/03/11 16:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
>   >  Is there a way to not sort them and leave the order as is?
>
> CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal
> hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the
> items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.

Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive 
iterations over an unchanged dict?  I didn't see anything in the 
docs[1] to make such a claim, but at least from my experience, 
one can reliably assert

   d = {}
   randomly_populate(d)
   list1 = list(d.iterkeys())
   list2 = list(d.iterkeys())
   assert list1 == list2

I understand all bets are off if one adds/removes (or maybe 
changes the values) of the dict between iterations, but I didn't 
know if what I saw was merely an implementation detail that 
shouldn't be counted on.

-tkc

[1]
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict





From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 19:51:46 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:51:46 +1100
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> Non-lambdas work as expected, but a lambda inside a non-lambda still
> exhibits this behaviour.
> Conclusion:
> When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are inside
> non-global scopes, cPython is unable to access the global scope and raises
> SystemError.

Fascinating! I did some introspection with this:

>>> def foo():
	a=1 # to make sure local variables do exist
	return (lambda *,keyword_only=global_variable: None)()

>>> dis.dis(foo)
  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              3 STORE_FAST               0 (a)

  3           6 LOAD_CONST               2 ('keyword_only')
              9 LOAD_NAME                0 (global_variable)
             12 LOAD_CONST               3 (<code object <lambda> at
0x00FC7340, file "<pyshell#18>", line 3>)
             15 MAKE_FUNCTION          256
             18 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             21 RETURN_VALUE


>>> def foo():
	a=1
	return (lambda argument=global_variable: None)()

>>> dis.dis(foo)
  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              3 STORE_FAST               0 (a)

  3           6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (global_variable)
              9 LOAD_CONST               2 (<code object <lambda> at
0x00F95E30, file "<pyshell#23>", line 3>)
             12 MAKE_FUNCTION            1
             15 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             18 RETURN_VALUE

Variations on the theme show that during compilation of foo, the name
is normally cemented as either a global or a local - but if it's
keyword-only, then a LOAD_NAME opcode is emitted. It's the code for
LOAD_NAME that looks for locals, which presumably a lambda doesn't
have.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 19:59:43 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:59:43 +1100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
In-Reply-To: <4EB31D52.3080707@tim.thechases.com>
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org> <4EB31D52.3080707@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmorWZbmTAx0-kXVt1XfF6uMv0cR5=ih9pSAn09fEDDpUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>  list1 = list(d.iterkeys())
> ?list2 = list(d.iterkeys())
> ?assert list1 == list2
>

There is such a guarantee in Python 2. From
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html:
"If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and
itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the
dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the
creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(),
d.keys()). The same relationship holds for the iterkeys() and
itervalues() methods: pairs = zip(d.itervalues(), d.iterkeys())
provides the same value for pairs. Another way to create the same list
is pairs = [(v, k) for (k, v) in d.iteritems()]."

Python 3 does things quite differently (with views), and I can't find
a corresponding promise, but I expect that this would still be the
case.

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Nov  3 20:06:20 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:06:20 +1100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2418.1320361310.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8739e4n43n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:

> On 11/03/11 16:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal
> > hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the
> > items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.
>
> Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive iterations
> over an unchanged dict? I didn't see anything in the docs[1] to make
> such a claim,

Exactly. The order of retrieval is entirely up to the implementation.
There is no guarantee that the order will be the same the next time you
iterate over the same dict. It is a bug to depend on a reliable order of
retrieving the items.

> I didn't know if what I saw was merely an implementation detail that
> shouldn't be counted on.

If the docs don't specify some particular observed behaviour in Python,
you should consider it an implementation detail.

-- 
 \       ?Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in |
  `\     behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.? ?Ambrose |
_o__)                           Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney


From drobinow at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 20:14:31 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 20:14:31 -0400
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org> <4EB2D56C.6070208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbxLoRpsbLAAwz+dQeHyjthsQmR3xR6GzqyO0fNCZjBaDA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately
> - it's svn not git
> - it's windows not *nix
> - we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Barely tested. Change the print functions to removes. Pass the top
directory as the argument.

import os, sys
for dirpath, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(sys.argv[1]):
    if dirpath.endswith("__pycache__"):
        thispath = dirpath[:-11]
        for f in filenames:
            if f.endswith(".pyc"):
                if not os.path.exists(os.path.join(thispath,f[:-1])):
                    print("delete " + os.path.join(thispath,f))

    else:
        for f in filenames:
            if f.endswith(".pyc"):
                if not os.path.exists(os.path.join(dirpath,f[:-1])):
                    print("delete " + os.path.join(dirpath,f))
                    #os.remove(os.path.join(dirpath,f))


From anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 20:33:04 2011
From: anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com (Anthony Kong)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 17:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
Message-ID: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.

I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python? 

I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.

I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy





From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov  3 21:46:53 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 21:46:53 -0400
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <roy-8C6241.21465203112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at prap37>,
 Anthony Kong <anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 
> 2003.

What?  We're bring it up again, SO SOON!?


> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if 
> any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?
> [...]
> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language 
> actually do away much of the need of the use of DP

To a certain extent, I agree.  I don't have a huge amount of experience 
in Design Patterns, but have read (years ago) the obligatory Gang Of 
Four book.  My impression was that much of that book was about how to 
build sane data structures to do useful things given the uber-bondage 
constraints of the C++ and Java typing systems.

For example, let's look at Singleton.  It's a useful pattern.  Here's 
how I would implement Singleton in Python (hand-waving a bit about the 
syntax details):

class Printer:
   thePrinter = None

   @staticmethod
   def get():
      if Printer.thePrinter is None:
         Printer.thePrinter = Printer()
      return thePrinter

   def print(self):
      "print some stuff"
      whatever


That seems to cover everything Singleton needs to do.  In your 
application code, you do:

myPrinter = Printer.get()
myPrinter.print(....)

and you can sleep easy knowing you've got the same Printer instance 
every time.  The GoF version for C++ is filled with minutia about 
private constructors and assignment operators.  All that stuff is 
important to get right in C++, but it has nothing to do with Singleton, 
per se.  It's just all the gunk you have to worry about to correctly 
implement Singleton in C++.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Nov  3 22:15:02 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 19:15:02 -0700
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQZjd7sxb_aW0E_SPyLJyLk9OTeZdJ9ibWAzJi0dJ3Hhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Anthony Kong <anthony.hw.kong at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.
>
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?

I can only speak for myself, but the whole idea of design patterns is
broken. The existence of nontrivial design patterns indicates language
deficiencies. For more extensive corroborating discussions, see:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/06/are-design-patterns-how-languages-evolve.html
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AreDesignPatternsMissingLanguageFeatures

Python thankfully has relatively few/minor deficiencies (so long as
one judges it within its dynamic language niche), so design patterns
per se aren't too relevant to it.

The canonical Python-specific design pattern is Borg
(http://code.activestate.com/recipes/66531-singleton-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-singleton-the-bo/
) [a variation on Singleton], and nowadays it (like its parent,
Singleton) is considered to be of dubious utility/advisability.

> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.

The closest alternative would be some publication that gave examples
of using some of Python's fancier, higher-level features, such as
metaclasses and context managers. I haven't been in the market for
such a book, so I have no good recommendations to give. Closest I
could suggest would be the Language Reference
(http://docs.python.org/reference/ ) and relevant PEPs
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ ; they tend to include examples by
way of motivating use-cases).

> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy

I am glad you agree.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com


From macmanes at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 22:55:29 2011
From: macmanes at gmail.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 19:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: match, concatenate based on filename
Message-ID: <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

Hi All, 

I am trying to concatenate several hundred files based on their filename..  Filenames are like this:

Q1.HOMOblast.fasta  
Q1.mus.blast.fasta  
Q1.query.fasta  
Q2.HOMOblast.fasta  
Q2.mus.blast.fasta  
Q2.query.fasta
...
Q1223.HOMOblast.fasta  
Q1223.mus.blast.fasta  
Q1223.query.fasta

All the Q1's should be concatenated together in a single file = Q1.concat.fasta.. Q2's go together, Q3's and so on...

I envision something like

for file in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/fasta/final/"):
	if file.startswith("Q%i"):
           concatenate...

But I can't figure out how to iterate this process over Q-numbers 1-1223

Any help appreciate.






From pmaupin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 23:08:42 2011
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 20:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: match, concatenate based on filename
References: <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
Message-ID: <483db563-19e7-4219-8854-9a65a8c4a88d@v5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 3, 9:55?pm, Matt <macma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am trying to concatenate several hundred files based on their filename.. ?Filenames are like this:
>
> Q1.HOMOblast.fasta
> Q1.mus.blast.fasta
> Q1.query.fasta
> Q2.HOMOblast.fasta
> Q2.mus.blast.fasta
> Q2.query.fasta
> ...
> Q1223.HOMOblast.fasta
> Q1223.mus.blast.fasta
> Q1223.query.fasta
>
> All the Q1's should be concatenated together in a single file = Q1.concat.fasta.. Q2's go together, Q3's and so on...
>
> I envision something like
>
> for file in os.listdir("/home/matthew/Desktop/pero.ngs/fasta/final/"):
> ? ? ? ? if file.startswith("Q%i"):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?concatenate...
>
> But I can't figure out how to iterate this process over Q-numbers 1-1223
>
> Any help appreciate.

I haven't tested this, so may have a typo or something, but it's often
much cleaner to gather your information, massage it, and then use,
than it is to gather it and use it in one go.


from collections import defaultdict

filedict = defaultdict(list)

for fname in sorted(os.listdir(mydir)):
    if fname.startswith('Q') and '.' in fname:
        filedict[fname[:fname.find('.')]].append(fname)

for prefix, fnames in filedict.iteritems():
    #print prefix, fnames
    concatenate...

HTH,
Pat


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov  3 23:17:34 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 03:17:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: match, concatenate based on filename
References: <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>
Message-ID: <j8vlge$gff$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <31568428.553.1320375329695.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at prgt40> Matt <macmanes at gmail.com> writes:

> But I can't figure out how to iterate this process over Q-numbers 1-1223

for i in xrange(1, 1224):
  Q = "Q%d" % i
  file1 = "%s.HOMOblast.fasta" % Q
  file2 = "%s.mus.blast.fasta" % Q
  file3 = "%s.query.fasta" % Q
  target = "%s.concat.fasta" % Q
  concatenate(file1, file2, file3, target)

Assuming that there are exactly three files to be concatenated for each
value of i.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 02:24:03 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <292753.379.1320387843748.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prev11>

I suggest that the use of dynamical page forwarding to different severs which run the same software package. This can be done in python!   


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 02:24:03 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2402.1320315567.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <292753.379.1320387843748.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prev11>

I suggest that the use of dynamical page forwarding to different severs which run the same software package. This can be done in python!   


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov  4 02:48:35 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 06:48:35 GMT
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb38ac2$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:54:52 +0000, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> All these ideas (shell and git hooks) are nice, but unfortunately - it's
> svn not git
> - it's windows not *nix
> - we have to remove only the ones without the corresponding *py...

Does it matter? The other .pyc files will be recreated when they are next 
needed. Just nuke all the .pyc files and be done with it. Or if you can't 
bear having to wait for Python to compile them as needed, you can force 
compilation by running your test suite (you do have a test suite, don't 
you?) or by using the compileall.py script.

python -m compileall some_directory 

should do the trick.


-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Nov  4 04:26:25 2011
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:26:25 +0000
Subject: ctypes: catch system exit from C library
References: <4877ad6b-1a35-4561-bed7-b143c9d8a3f2@r7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<10eao8-84g.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<j8u7oi$pnh$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.11.04.08.26.25.35000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:16:50 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

>>> in my python application I am calling functions from a C library via
>>> `ctypes` interface. Some fns from that C library calls `exit()` on
>>> error.
>> Just curious, which library is that?

I'm reasonably sure that he's talking about the GRASS libraries.

In which, the standard error-handling mechanism is to call
G_fatal_error(), which ultimately calls exit(). AKA the "samurai
principle": return victorious, or don't return at all.

[FWIW, re-writing everying in C++ and using exceptions is not a
realistic option].

> And who should we have thrashed and pilloried for writing it that way?

No-one. It's a perfectly rational design given the context.

GRASS consists of ~350 command-line programs ("modules") in the
traditional Unix style (read command-line arguments, do processing,
terminate). The libraries exist to support the creation of such modules,
and are fit for that particular purpose.

Handling errors by having status codes which propagate up the call chain
would add a significant amount of code. More importantly, it would push
the burden of handling errors onto the authors of the various modules (and
historical evidence suggests that checking for (let alone handling) errors
is unlikely to occur).

The mechanism works fine, so long as you don't try to use the libraries
for purposes for which they weren't designed (e.g. long-running programs
such as interactive applications or servers).

As the story goes ...

	Patient: "Doctor, when I do this ... it hurts"
	Doctor: "Well don't do it then!"



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Nov  4 04:34:33 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:34:33 +0100
Subject: Database access benchmarks for use in web-frameworks - How does
	Python compare?
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGckV5bhwjw49scf9V_VK41BWMSXMzhv4jTAQ67j9sAgoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGckV5bhwjw49scf9V_VK41BWMSXMzhv4jTAQ67j9sAgoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9082s$4cd$1@dough.gmane.org>

Alec Taylor, 03.11.2011 11:19:
> I'm building a large e-commerce site, and it is very important that
> what I write can:
> - Handle larger server load
> - Deliver pages quickly
> - Make transactions quickly

Those are pretty broad requirements. If a framework can satisfy them or not 
depends more on how you set it up and deploy it (e.g. how many servers you 
run, what kind of load balancing you use, how you serve your static 
content, etc.) than the actual framework you choose, I'd say.


> as well as have a small development time (i.e. pre-built modules for
> e-commerce are available, and extendible).

"e-commerce" is also a very broad term. But I'd expect that any of the 
recent web frameworks (certainly including Django) will satisfy your needs 
in some way.


> Are there recent accessible statistics available, comparing these
> metrics across the most popular web-frameworks? (i.e. Symfony, DJango,
> Rails, ASP.NET&etc)

Not that I know of.

Stefan



From tartley at tartley.com  Fri Nov  4 05:27:58 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

I like to install a Bash shell of some kind on windows boxes I work on, specifically so I can use shell commands like this, just like on any other operating system. Cywin works just fine for this.

svn also has hooks, but sadly not a checkout hook:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html
I guess you could write your own two-line wrapper script which does the checkout and then deletes the pyc files.

I don't understand why deleting only some pyc files is important. Can't you just delete them all and let Python re generate the ones you need? I once saw someone create the longest python file they could to see how long generating pyc files takes, and it is very very quick indeed. A human could not notice the delay even for the largest of projects.

Finally, someone asked about skipping .svn dirs: find has a '-prune' option, you can read about it on the manpage.


From tartley at tartley.com  Fri Nov  4 05:27:58 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>

I like to install a Bash shell of some kind on windows boxes I work on, specifically so I can use shell commands like this, just like on any other operating system. Cywin works just fine for this.

svn also has hooks, but sadly not a checkout hook:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html
I guess you could write your own two-line wrapper script which does the checkout and then deletes the pyc files.

I don't understand why deleting only some pyc files is important. Can't you just delete them all and let Python re generate the ones you need? I once saw someone create the longest python file they could to see how long generating pyc files takes, and it is very very quick indeed. A human could not notice the delay even for the largest of projects.

Finally, someone asked about skipping .svn dirs: find has a '-prune' option, you can read about it on the manpage.


From tartley at tartley.com  Fri Nov  4 05:29:49 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2425.1320398887.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2425.1320398887.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8460773.112.1320398989273.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15>

Apologies for all my messasges appearing twice. I'm using google groups web ui and have no idea why it's doing that. I'll stop using it.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov  4 05:49:07 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:49:07 +0100
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <j1pco8-5cn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 04.11.2011 01:33, schrieb Anthony Kong:
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or
> consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?

My consensus with myself is that design patterns are language-agnostic. 
If I write "class Foo serves as view and controller for class Bar in a 
model-view-controller (MVC) design", everybody that knows MVC has 
immediately a very high-level understanding of how those two classes 
interact.


> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my
> colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject
> area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation
> and insight in this topic.

The Gang of Four book on design patterns is one you will probably come 
across, and there are many that refer to it.


> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python
> language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it
> is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating
> from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to
> cherrypy

"webframework based on J2EE/servlet" - apart from J2EE being a specific 
implementation, this also describes a design pattern, i.e. one where 
(forgive me if I'm slightly off, this is not actually my field of 
programming) the UI is browser-based and the program logic runs on a server.

Instead of explaining it in many words, you reused the known design 
pattern to describe it, and that is also IMHO what design patterns are 
about. They serve as a tool to make software that follows known 
patterns, so that people that know the pattern will recognize them and 
then get easier understanding. It also serves as tool when talking about 
things, you don't have to explain the design when you can refer to a 
pattern.

In that sense, I fully disagree that design patterns are obsolete in 
Python. However, there are other patterns that are more 
language-specific, like e.g. RAII in C++, so if you rather meant those, 
I would agree with you.

Cheers!

Uli



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Fri Nov  4 06:20:06 2011
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:20:06 +0100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2418.1320361310.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8739e4n43n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <87d3d8mbop.fsf@xemacs.org>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:
>
>> On 11/03/11 16:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> > CPython iterates (and prints) dict items in their arbitrary internal
>> > hash table order, which depends on the number and entry order of the
>> > items. It is a bug to depend on that arbitrary order in any way.
>>
>> Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive iterations
>> over an unchanged dict? I didn't see anything in the docs[1] to make
>> such a claim,
>
> Exactly.

This is false.  The docs say:

    If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and
    itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the
    dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the
    creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(),
    d.keys()).

(http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict)

> The order of retrieval is entirely up to the implementation.

This part is still true, but the order won't change behind your back if
you're not touching the dict.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 06:34:11 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:34:11 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
Message-ID: <4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>

On 11/04/2011 09:27 AM, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> I like to install a Bash shell of some kind on windows boxes I work on, specifically so I can use shell commands like this, just like on any other operating system. Cywin works just fine for this.
>
> svn also has hooks, but sadly not a checkout hook:
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html
> I guess you could write your own two-line wrapper script which does the checkout and then deletes the pyc files.
>
> I don't understand why deleting only some pyc files is important. Can't you just delete them all and let Python re generate the ones you need? I once saw someone create the longest python file they could to see how long generating pyc files takes, and it is very very quick indeed. A human could not notice the delay even for the largest of projects.
>
> Finally, someone asked about skipping .svn dirs: find has a '-prune' option, you can read about it on the manpa

Uhm yes it makes sense also to just remove all of them, I don't know why 
it was done like this but
probably for "performance" reasons.

I will try both ways, but I would definitively avoid the shell 
scripting, because it's mainly windows
but it has to be multi-platform..


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 06:39:14 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:39:14 +1100
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Uhm yes it makes sense also to just remove all of them, I don't know why it
> was done like this but
> probably for "performance" reasons.
>
> I will try both ways, but I would definitively avoid the shell scripting,
> because it's mainly windows
> but it has to be multi-platform..

If you're removing them all, you don't need to use a powerful shell.
Much much easier! Just recursively del *.pyc and you're done.

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 06:49:39 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:39 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/3/11, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Fascinating!
Awesome to know!

> I did some introspection with this:
>
*snip*
>
> Variations on the theme show that during compilation of foo, the name
> is normally cemented as either a global or a local - but if it's
> keyword-only, then a LOAD_NAME opcode is emitted. It's the code for
> LOAD_NAME that looks for locals, which presumably a lambda doesn't
> have.

What is the LOAD_NAME for? The non-keyword default doesn't seem to need it.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 07:00:50 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:00:50 +0000
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>

On 11/04/2011 10:39 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> If you're removing them all, you don't need to use a powerful shell. 
> Much much easier! Just recursively del *.pyc and you're done. ChrisA 

Discussing with the guy that did it I think it's actually a good idea 
instead, because removing them *all* means.
- remove a few thousand files every time where maybe 0 would be removed 
otherwise
- recompile the same thousand of files

It might not be so relevant but for 10 lines of code more I guess it's 
fine..


From lbrt  Fri Nov  4 07:48:02 2011
From: lbrt (lbrt)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 11:48:02 GMT
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
Message-ID: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>

 python-based youtube-dl
~ 
 http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
~ 
 is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it is considered a "feature").
~ 
 I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
~ 
...
 data = urllib2.urlopen(basic_request)
 content_length = data.info()['Content-Length']
...
~ 
 you will see they get the content length of the actual data feed and they also print the progress status based on the content length
~ 
 Implementing an if statement a la:
~ 
 max_indicated_content_length = self.params.get('max_content_length', None);
~ 
 if( content_length > max_indicated_content_length ){ [do not download, just report "data feed too large"] }
 else{ [do] }
~ 
 shouldn't be hard at all
~ 
 youtube-dl is under the Creative Commons License copyrighted by 2006-2011 Ricardo Garcia Gonzalez and maintained by him and a group of python developers
~ 
 They are the ones keeping a mental map of that project. It would be a plus if they implement this feature, but anyother python developer can implemented (please, let me know if/when you do)
~ 
 lbrtchx


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Nov  4 08:19:25 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:19:25 +1100
Subject: Dictionary sorting
References: <16245908.783.1320346014867.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<j8v1h5$4mc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2418.1320361310.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8739e4n43n.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <87d3d8mbop.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <87y5vwkrle.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at xemacs.org> writes:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
>
> > Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:
> >> Does this "never trust it" hold even for two consecutive iterations
> >> over an unchanged dict? I didn't see anything in the docs[1] to make
> >> such a claim,
> >
> > Exactly.
>
> This is false.  The docs say:
>
>     If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and
>     itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the
>     dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the
>     creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(),
>     d.keys()).
>
> (http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict)

Thank you for this correction.

-- 
 \       ?Firmness in decision is often merely a form of stupidity. It |
  `\        indicates an inability to think the same thing out twice.? |
_o__)                                                ?Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney


From johnroth1 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 08:28:23 2011
From: johnroth1 at gmail.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 05:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <0531d3c1-61c6-41f6-a74a-fe3d24a731fb@x2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 3, 6:33?pm, Anthony Kong <anthony.hw.k... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.
>
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?
>
> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.
>
> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy

I don't know of a book on design patterns in Python. I've got a couple
of observations.

The first is that if you use TDD (Test Driven Development) and
refactor relentlessly to remove duplication, most of the basic design
patterns will emerge naturally from the code as you work.

The second is that, as far as I'm concerned, the utility of a design
patterns book is in the discussion of what the pattern is good for,
and what it isn't good for. That is, as another poster says, language
agnostic.

John Roth


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov  4 08:32:08 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 12:32:08 GMT
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:48:02 +0000, lbrt chx _ gemale wrote:

> python-based youtube-dl
> ~
>  http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
> ~
>  is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length
>  of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it
>  is considered a "feature").

If you are making a feature request, you should make it directly to the 
project developer, and not here.

Since you consider that feature "shouldn't be hard at all" (your words), 
perhaps you should consider providing a patch? Don't forget the 
documentation and tests for it.

Or did you mean "it shouldn't be hard for me, if somebody else does the 
work"?


> ~
>  I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this
>  nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
[...]

Lbrtchx, it's possible that English is not your natural language. Please 
be aware that, in English, "what they were thinking..." is often used 
sarcastically, as in "they weren't actually thinking". Particularly 
following your use of scare quotes around "feature".

(Even more so for the similar form, "what were they thinking?".)

It's probably not going to help you get a feature added to the project if 
you imply (even by accident) that lack of that feature is an indication 
that the developer wasn't thinking.


-- 
Steven


From goon12 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 08:41:00 2011
From: goon12 at gmail.com (Joe Riopel)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:41:00 -0400
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <0531d3c1-61c6-41f6-a74a-fe3d24a731fb@x2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<0531d3c1-61c6-41f6-a74a-fe3d24a731fb@x2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHMX9+6Q-mCg8G6TgmGZmLocpU+=505jDo9y9dCW6ttbF1qWcA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:28 AM, John Roth <johnroth1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The first is that if you use TDD (Test Driven Development) and
> refactor relentlessly to remove duplication, most of the basic design
> patterns will emerge naturally from the code as you work.

I agree, and there is a pretty good series of articles on
developerWorks that covers this:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-eaed2/index.html

The author used Java in this series, but as Ulrich mentioned, I feel
that design patterns (and emergent design) are "language-agnostic.".


From phihag at phihag.de  Fri Nov  4 08:45:23 2011
From: phihag at phihag.de (Philipp Hagemeister)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:45:23 +0100
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
In-Reply-To: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4EB3DE63.4050900@phihag.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

As already said, you should file your request at
https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issue , not here.

A few things to note:

* Not all sites necessarily send the Content-Length header.
* RTMP URLs would have to be treated differently
* Sending a Range header might allow for a better implementation.

Why do you want to restrict the filesize of the download in the first
place? I can't see a use case, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Due to me not having lots of time at the moment, your best chance to get
any youtube-dl feature implemented is providing a patch (in form of a
github pull-request, if possible).

- -- Philipp (youtube-dl developer)

lbrt at mail.python.org wrote:
>  python-based youtube-dl
> ~ 
>  http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
> ~ 
>  is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it is considered a "feature").
> ~ 
>  I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
> ~ 
> ...
>  data = urllib2.urlopen(basic_request)
>  content_length = data.info()['Content-Length']
> ...
> ~ 
>  you will see they get the content length of the actual data feed and they also print the progress status based on the content length
> ~ 
>  Implementing an if statement a la:
> ~ 
>  max_indicated_content_length = self.params.get('max_content_length', None);
> ~ 
>  if( content_length > max_indicated_content_length ){ [do not download, just report "data feed too large"] }
>  else{ [do] }
> ~ 
>  shouldn't be hard at all
> ~ 
>  youtube-dl is under the Creative Commons License copyrighted by 2006-2011 Ricardo Garcia Gonzalez and maintained by him and a group of python developers
> ~ 
>  They are the ones keeping a mental map of that project. It would be a plus if they implement this feature, but anyother python developer can implemented (please, let me know if/when you do)
> ~ 
>  lbrtchx

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=duyH
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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 08:46:10 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 12:46:10 +0000
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com>

On 11/04/2011 12:33 AM, Anthony Kong wrote:
> Sorry to resurrect this topic. By google search the last discussion was in 2003.
>
> I would like to find out what is the current prevailing view or consensus (if any) on the use of Design Pattern in python?
>
> I am doing some 'fact-finding' in this area on request of my colleagues. Some of them want to buy a book or two in this subject area. Hopefully the newsgroup can give me some book recommendation and insight in this topic.
>
> I myself pretty much subscribe to the view that the nature of python language actually do away much of the need of the use of DP, but it is just a personal view. It comes form my experience of migrating from webware4py (webframework based on J2EE/servlet idea) to cherrypy
>
>
>

Well this book is work in progress
https://bitbucket.org/BruceEckel/python-3-patterns-idioms/src

but it actually looks very interesting


From bkamrani at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:17:16 2011
From: bkamrani at gmail.com (Behnam)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 06:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python advanced course (preferably in NA)
References: <ad9c3c22-96ef-4abb-a209-d006d52d9fac@gy7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1320344956.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB3051C.2010202@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <10127b29-23c5-4929-a20c-8a89ce6e385d@t8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

This was great. Thank you all!

/Behnam

On Nov 3, 5:18?pm, Catherine Moroney
<Catherine.M.Moro... at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> I've taken twoPythonclasses from David Beazley and can second
> Eric's recommendation. ?The "advanced" class is reallyadvanced
> and goes into some pretty mind-blowing stuff. ?The class comes with
> lots of problems and solutions, and a book of all the slides which are
> a great reference. ?Well worth the time and money!
>
> Catherine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Snow wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Behnam <bkamr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Anybody is aware of anyadvancedcourseinPythonpreferably in north
> >> america?
>
> >> I've been partly coding inPythonfor couple of years now and have
> >> used PyQt. What I'd like to learn more is a kind of advance OOP in
> >>python. Any idea?
>
> > While I don't know specifically, check out the following link (from
> > thePythonsite):
>
> >http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining
>
> > I have taken a class each (PyCon tutorial) from Raymond Hettinger,
> > David Beazley, and Brian Jones, and found each of them to be
> > outstanding courses. ?Only David is listed on that page to which I
> > linked, though I know Raymond does courses at least from time to time.
> > ?I've also heard a talk from Wesley Chun and found him to be
> > fantastic.
>
> > -eric
>
> >> BTW, I'm not a computer engineer and have mechanical background.
>
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >> --
> >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:31:32 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 06:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24728053.972.1320413492633.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>

Uhn, thanks for the easy way Just delete all *.pyc recursively. spend another 5-20
minutes to recompile all to get everything sync.. That is trivial!


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:31:32 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 06:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2427.1320403157.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24728053.972.1320413492633.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16>

Uhn, thanks for the easy way Just delete all *.pyc recursively. spend another 5-20
minutes to recompile all to get everything sync.. That is trivial!


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Nov  4 09:31:42 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:31:42 +0100
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
In-Reply-To: <4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
	<4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4EB3E93E.50500@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:48:02 +0000, lbrt chx _ gemale wrote:
>
>   
>> python-based youtube-dl
>> ~
>>  http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
>> ~
>>  is sorely missing a flag in order to indicate the maximum file length
>>  of the data feed it would download (well, unless, for some reason, it
>>  is considered a "feature").
>>     
>
> If you are making a feature request, you should make it directly to the 
> project developer, and not here.
>
> Since you consider that feature "shouldn't be hard at all" (your words), 
> perhaps you should consider providing a patch? Don't forget the 
> documentation and tests for it.
>
> Or did you mean "it shouldn't be hard for me, if somebody else does the 
> work"?
>
>
>   
>> ~
>>  I wonder what developers were thinking about when they came up this
>>  nice piece of code. If you actually look in the code
>>     
> [...]
>
> Lbrtchx, it's possible that English is not your natural language. Please 
> be aware that, in English, "what they were thinking..." is often used 
> sarcastically, as in "they weren't actually thinking". Particularly 
> following your use of scare quotes around "feature".
>
> (Even more so for the similar form, "what were they thinking?".)
>
> It's probably not going to help you get a feature added to the project if 
> you imply (even by accident) that lack of that feature is an indication 
> that the developer wasn't thinking.
>
>
>   
Maybe Lbrtchx is one of the Sheldon Cooper's nicknames :o)

JM

PS : I have the feeling that my nerdy reference will fall flat...


From slehar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:10:58 2011
From: slehar at gmail.com (Steven Lehar)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:10:58 -0400
Subject: Line continuation issue\
Message-ID: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>

Is this the right place to propose language extensions?

My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
contained within reasonable limits. But the standard line continuation \
is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
and [CR] will render it useless.

How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following whitespace
which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it to continue on
the next line.

Has this issue been discussed already?

  slehar
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From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov  4 11:38:32 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:38:32 +0100
Subject: Line continuation issue\
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j910tg$ul4$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven Lehar wrote:

> Is this the right place to propose language extensions?
> 
> My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
> contained within reasonable limits. 

You should attack this by breaking large expressions into smaller ones and 
factoring out some of your code into helper functions.

> But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
> and [CR] will render it useless.

Useless? You get a SyntaxError, remove the offending whitespace, and that's 
it.

> How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following whitespace
> which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it to continue on
> the next line.

Did you know that there already is a pythonic alternative that works well in 
most cases? An open (, [, or { will allow you to continue on the next line, 
e. g.

items = [(foo(item), bar(item))
    for row in rows
    for item in row if baz(
        alpha=1,
        beta=item)]

no strings attached.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:42:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 02:42:11 +1100
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Steven Lehar <slehar at gmail.com> wrote:
> But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \ and
> [CR] will render it useless.

How's it anti-Pythonic for invisible whitespace differences to be significant?

</troll>

ChrisA
*grinning, running, and ducking*


From slehar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:53:57 2011
From: slehar at gmail.com (Steven Lehar)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:53:57 -0400
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKz-UDPigUS_+7um40_mqSSwLGriMH7VHhd1qMfTtEEXcboCHQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
How's it anti-Pythonic for invisible whitespace differences to be
significant?

A central idea of Python was to replace {curly;braces{and;parentheses;}},
which are easily overlooked by the programmer, and use WHITESPACE instead,
something that is clearly visible to the programmer, as the defining
syntax. Make what is visible to humans significant to the interpreter.
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:56:19 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 02:56:19 +1100
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDPigUS_+7um40_mqSSwLGriMH7VHhd1qMfTtEEXcboCHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoEoP9y6sBo06h49ENukj2L4mMfspcc0XG94X7O8q-OWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKz-UDPigUS_+7um40_mqSSwLGriMH7VHhd1qMfTtEEXcboCHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoSTwH0rEtTu0eG+rcWd6gJ_VjaGF8phvodXvG8puaJwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:53 AM, Steven Lehar <slehar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> How's it anti-Pythonic for invisible whitespace differences to be significant?
> A central idea of Python was to replace {curly;braces{and;parentheses;}}, which are easily overlooked by the programmer, and use WHITESPACE instead, something that is clearly visible to the programmer, as the defining syntax. Make what is visible to humans significant to the interpreter.
>

I refer more to the problems that perpetually plagued Python
programmers regarding tabs vs spaces (which I think was finally closed
off only in Python 3).

ChrisA


From k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 12:50:52 2011
From: k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com (SAHITHI)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:50:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HOT HOT HOT
Message-ID: <d0fe4db6-ae37-4fb4-be68-de2eb0ee69ad@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

`
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From lbrt  Fri Nov  4 13:37:28 2011
From: lbrt (lbrt)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 17:37:28 GMT
Subject: short reading materials about anthropological,
	universal themes for students with no reading habit ...
In-Reply-To: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <1320428248.15512@nntp.aceinnovative.com>

> A few things to note:

> * Not all sites necessarily send the Content-Length header.
> * RTMP URLs would have to be treated differently
~ 
 No some don't, but at least for the ones that do (like youtube) it would be a useful feature. The Content-Length header is used in the code anyway
~ 
> * Sending a Range header might allow for a better implementation.
~ 
 Yes, it would
~ 
> Why do you want to restrict the filesize of the download in the first
> place? I can't see a use case, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
~ 
 OK, I see your point. Say, you have a list of youtube urls, which feeds you want to download using a script or a playlist someone put together, but you don't want to download files that are too large, which may not be of any use to you. For example, I teach and it doesn't make any sense to use a full movie as part of a class set. So I would like for youtube-dl to let me know which files are larger than a given size (and possibly save them in a file) for me to check the files first

 My languages are ANSI C, C++ and java. When I was young and silly would blab girls just because they crossed my way, now I don't like to even look into anything that I don't want to invest my time in on an ongoing basis. I would let people that code python and have a mental map of that code base do it themselves

 lbrtchx 



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 15:10:00 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 19:10:00 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> >>> def x(nonlocal_var):

...     def y():

...             z = lambda *, keyword_only=nonlocal_var: None

...     return y

...

>>> x(None)()

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>

  File "<stdin>", line 3, in y

SystemError: no locals when loading 'nonlocal_var'

>>> dis.dis(x)

  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (<code object y at
> 0x7f1fa5d57030, file "<stdin>", line 2>)

              3 MAKE_FUNCTION            0

              6 STORE_FAST               1 (y)


>   4           9 LOAD_FAST                1 (y)

             12 RETURN_VALUE

>>> dis.dis(x(None))

  3           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('keyword_only')

              3 LOAD_NAME                0 (nonlocal_var)

              6 LOAD_CONST               2 (<code object <lambda> at
> 0x7f1fa626aa48, file "<stdin>", line 3>)

              9 MAKE_FUNCTION          256

             12 STORE_FAST               0 (z)

             15 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)

             18 RETURN_VALUE

 Conclusion:
When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are inside
non-global scopes, cPython is unable to access *either the free variables
or global scope*  and raises SystemError.

This is cool, though:

> >>> def y():
> ...     global_var
> ...     z = lambda *, keyword_only=global_var: None
> ...
> >>> y()
> >>>

>>> dis.dis(y)
>   2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (global_var)
>               3 POP_TOP
>   3           4 LOAD_CONST               1 ('keyword_only')
>               7 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (global_var)
>              10 LOAD_CONST               2 (<code object <lambda> at
> 0x7f1fa5d4fd78, file "<stdin>", line 3>)
>              13 MAKE_FUNCTION          256
>              16 STORE_FAST               0 (z)
>              19 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>              22 RETURN_VALUE

 >>> def x(nonlocal_var):
> ...     def y():
> ...             nonlocal_var
> ...             z = lambda *, keyword_only=nonlocal_var: None
> ...     return y
> ...
> >>> x(None)()
> >>>

What is happening is that LOAD_NAME is trying to access the value
'nonlocal_var' from y.__code__.co_freevars, but compilation doesn't push it
there from the lambda, so adding a call to it causes it to work. The change
of opcode implies that locality is decided before the opcodes are made,
 and so not being pushed to co_freevars changes the opcode.

AKA:
*When setting defaults to keyword-only arguments in lambdas which are
inside non-global scopes, cPython doesn't push the name to co_freevars.*

Now - where shall I report this?
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 15:45:26 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:45:26 -0400
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
In-Reply-To: <4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com>
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j91fd3$gja$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 8:46 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> Well this book is work in progress

Though not touched since May 2009

> https://bitbucket.org/BruceEckel/python-3-patterns-idioms/src
>
> but it actually looks very interesting

The slightly older .pdf version is a bit bizarre as parts of both text 
and code are only half-translated from Java. The testing chapter 
contains obviously untested code like TestDemo.py [sic] with Java lines like
    id = ++objCounter  # this is supposed to increment objCounter
    TestDemo test1 = TestDemo('test1')
    # I presume this declares test1 as a TestDemo object
and text with Javaisms like *static*, *public*, *private*, *protected*, 
and *friendly* and "a little review of Java packages".

Perhaps the later sections are more useful.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 16:01:14 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:01:14 -0400
Subject: leftover pyc files
In-Reply-To: <4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j91gao$n8r$1@dough.gmane.org>

For those not aware, the compiled file caching and import system was 
changed for 3.2. Given test.py, the compiled file is no longer test.pyc, 
in the same directory, but (for cpython32) 
__pycache__/test.cpython-32.pyc. Given the statement 'import test', the 
__pycache__ directory is only searched (for the name given above) after 
finding test.py. So if 'test.py' is deleted or renamed to 'mytest.py', 
an unchanged 'import test' will *fail* instead of importing the obsolete 
.pyc file. So there is no longer a functional reason to delete such 
obsolete files. However, the OP is stuck with 2.5.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 16:06:05 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:06:05 -0400
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j91gjq$pbh$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 11:10 AM, Steven Lehar wrote:
> Is this the right place to propose language extensions?

Yes, especially for beginners not familiar with previous discussions.
>
> My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
> contained within reasonable limits. But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
> and [CR] will render it useless.
>
> How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following
> whitespace which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it
> to continue on the next line.
>
> Has this issue been discussed already?

Yes ;=)
Peter already gave the standard answers.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From nad at acm.org  Fri Nov  4 16:11:14 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:11:14 -0700
Subject: Design Pattern and Python: Any book recommendation? Your view?
References: <6097694.446.1320366784098.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<4EB3DE92.7040108@gmail.com> <j91fd3$gja$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-6D5FD7.13111404112011@news.gmane.org>

Search for presentations and videos by Alex Martelli.  He's the goto (so 
to speak) person on Python design patterns.  Here, for instance:

http://code.google.com/edu/languages/#_python_patterns

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov  4 19:15:01 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Nov 2011 23:15:01 GMT
Subject: leftover pyc files
References: <4EB14D9D.8080309@gmail.com> <j8rm4k$fvl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2385.1320248748.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<11169846.60.1320306575820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<j8tro3$pj0$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2409.1320342902.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5204871.568.1320398878314.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiu15>
	<4EB3BFA3.4090802@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrvfGaTP_2f0g76tqdD2BVWTPBq=0SYc08QUDuixbevkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB3C5E2.3020702@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2446.1320436902.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb471f4$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:01:14 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> For those not aware, the compiled file caching and import system was
> changed for 3.2. Given test.py, the compiled file is no longer test.pyc,
> in the same directory, but (for cpython32)
> __pycache__/test.cpython-32.pyc. Given the statement 'import test', the
> __pycache__ directory is only searched (for the name given above) after
> finding test.py. So if 'test.py' is deleted or renamed to 'mytest.py',
> an unchanged 'import test' will *fail* instead of importing the obsolete
> .pyc file. So there is no longer a functional reason to delete such
> obsolete files. However, the OP is stuck with 2.5.

Oh, I don't know, removing obsolete and useless crud from your file 
system seems like a good enough functional reason to me :)

However, the behaviour of Python 3.2 is a little more complicated than 
the above, since it must still support .pyc only software. If you have 
a .pyc file in the PYTHONPATH, but *outside* of a __pycache__ directory, 
and it is compiled for the correct version of Python, it will still be 
imported as usual.

I'm not sure what happens if you have two .pyc files, one inside the 
cache and one outside.

-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  4 20:42:02 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:42:02 -0400
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 3:10 PM, Joshua Landau wrote:
>     > >> def x(nonlocal_var):
>     ...     def y():
>     ...             z = lambda *, keyword_only=nonlocal_var: None
>     ...     return y
>     ...
>      >>> x(None)()
...
>     SystemError: no locals when loading 'nonlocal_var'
...
> Now - where shall I report this?

Joshua found bugs.python.org and, 2 hours later, a fix was applied.
http://bugs.python.org/issue13343

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 21:53:17 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 01:53:17 +0000
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUf=eO80YM5dD-F46ZKTVoG_OcW+VRJPbVG0eUawFUQFw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Joshua found bugs.python.org and, 2 hours later, a fix was applied.
> http://bugs.python.org/**issue13343 <http://bugs.python.org/issue13343>
>

It was impressively fast. Those python devs are like a hawk.
Although I wasn't expecting a three-line patch (plus a three line test).
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From jhsu802701 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 01:27:58 2011
From: jhsu802701 at gmail.com (Jason Hsu, Mr. Swift Linux)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 22:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can I fully replace GNU Bash with Python?
Message-ID: <a8736626-516f-40b7-8b0f-053b2c52a03a@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This question concerns my process of creating Swift Linux from the
base distro (antiX Linux in the past, Linux Mint Debian Edition now).
(NOTE: The process I'm describing here is an oversimplification.)

All of my development work takes place in the ~/develop directory.
This is the directory where I enter the "git clone" command to
download the repositories from GitHub.  These repositories are 1-
build, majorfunction1, majorfunction2, and so on.  After I download
these repositories, I have the directories ~/develop/1-build, ~/
develop/majorfunction1, ~/develop/majorfunction2, and so on.

The ~/develop/1-build directory contains the scripts that build Swift
Linux.  Each major function needed to create Swift Linux (such as
changing web browser configuration files, changing login manager
configuration files, etc.) has its own majorfunction# repository.

For developing the latest version of Swift Linux, I had the swift.sh
script in the  ~/develop/1-build directory call scripts in the
majorfunction directories with commands like:
sh ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.sh
sh ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.sh
and so on

Please note that one can run any of these major functions
independently OR as part of the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script.
The ability to run any major function independently means I can focus
on just one function that's not working as it should WITHOUT messing
around with other functions.  This ability will be especially
important when I have an actual team working on Swift Linux.

What I'd like to do is replace GNU Bash with Python.  I know I can
replace the main.sh scripts with main.py scripts.  Then the commands
in the swift.sh script would be:
python ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.py
python ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.py
and so on

Is there a way I can replace the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script
with a ~/develop/1-build/swift.py script, yet still retain the ability
to work on one major function WITHOUT requiring the other major
functions and the 1-build directory to be present?


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sat Nov  5 02:06:55 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:06:55 +0900
Subject: [ANN] pyKook 0.7.0 - task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake
	or Ant
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RvmGH=BD992cbE89B30W-d8FT1w34vsq93-x56HvuEyGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have released pyKook 0.7.0.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html

In this release, you can run commands on remote machines using ssh.
This is very useful to deploy your application.


pyKook Overview
---------------

pyKook is a task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake or Ant.

(Kookbook.py):

    kookbook.default = 'build'

    ## task
    @recipe(None, ['hello'])
    def build(c):
        """build all"""
        pass

    ## file
    @recipe('hello', ['hello.o'])
    def file_hello(c):
        """build 'hello' from 'hello.o'"""
        system(c%'gcc -o $(product) $(ingred)')

    ## rule
    @recipe('*.o', ['$(1).c', '$(1).h'])
    def file_o(c):
        system(c%'gcc -c $(ingred)')


Command-line:

    bash> kk     # or pykook
    $ gcc -c hello.c
    ### *** hello.o (recipe=file_o)
    $ gcc -c hello.c
    ### ** hello (recipe=file_hello)
    $ gcc -o hello hello.o
    ### * build (recipe=build)

See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html for details.


Enhancements in this release
----------------------------

* (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Remote command execution (ssh and sftp) is available.
  This is very useful to deploy your application into servers.

  Ex (Kookbook.py)::

	from kook.remote import Remote
	remote = Remote(
	    hosts    = ['www1', 'www2', 'user3 at www3:10022'],
	    port     = 22,
	    user     = 'user1',
	    #password = None,      # for login, '~/.ssh/id_rsa' and sudo
	    passphrase = None,     # only for '~/.ssh/id_rsa'
	    sudo_password = 'xxx', # only for sudo command
	)

	@recipe
	@remotes(remote)
	def hostinfo(c):
	    """show hostname"""
	    ssh = c.ssh
	    ssh('hostname')        # run command with ssh
	    ssh('whomai')          # run command with ssh
	    ssh.sudo('whoami')     # run command with sudo

	@recipe
	@remotes(remote)
	def exchange(c):
	    """upload and download files"""
	    ssh = c.ssh
	    with ssh.pushd('work/apps'):
	        ssh.get('file.remote')    # download a file
	        ssh.put('file.local')     # upload a file
	        ssh.mget('remote.*')      # download files
	        ssh.mput('local.*')       # upload files

  Notice that you must configure ssh at first and confirm that
  you can log into servers without typing password::

	bash> ssh user1 at www1
	bash> ssh user1 at www2
	bash> ssh -p 10022 user3 at www3
	bash> kk hostinfo
	### * showinfo (recipe=showinfo)
	[user1 at www1]$ hostame
	www1
	[user1 at www1]$ whoami
	user1
	[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
	root
	[user2 at www2]$ hostame
	www2
	[user2 at www2]$ whoami
	user2
	[user2 at www2]$ sudo whoami
	root
	[user3 at www3]$ hostame
	www3
	[user3 at www3]$ whami
	user3
	[user3 at www3]$ sudo whoami
	root

  Currently commands are executed sequencially (not in parallel).

* (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Password object supported.
  Password object asks you to enter password in prompt when necessary.

  Ex (Kookbook.py)::

	from kook.remote import Remote, Password
	remote = Remote(
	    hosts         = ['user1 at www1:22'],
	    #password     = Password('login'),
	    passphrase    = Password('~/.ssh/id_rsa'),
	    sudo_password = Password('sudo command')
	)
	#
	@recipe
	@remotes(remote)
	def remote_test(c):
	    ssh = c.ssh
	    ssh.sudo('whoami')

  Output example::

	bash> kk remote_test
	### * remote_test (recipe=remote_test)
	Password for ~/.ssh/id_rsa:
	Password for sudo command:
	[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
	root

  It is easy to share password object.

  Ex (Kookbook.py)::

	from kook.remote import Remote, Password
	passwd = Password()
	remote = Remote(
	    hosts         = ['user1 at www1:22'],
	    password      = passwd,
	    passphrase    = passwd,
	    sudo_password = passwd,
	)


Changes in this release
-----------------------

* Category class is changed to convers all instance methods into staticmethods.

  Ex (Kookbook.py):

	class apache(Category):
	    @recipe
	    def start(c):
	       system('apachectl start')

	## start() is converted into staticmethod
	assert type(apache.__dict__['start']) == staticmethod
	from types import FunctionType
	assert type(apache.start) == FuntionType

  This makes execution of other recipes in category easier::

	class apache(Category):
	    @recipe
	    def start(c):
	       ...
	    @recipe
	    def stop(c):
	       ...
	    @recipe
	    def restart(c):
	       apache.start(c)    # execute other recipe
	       apache.stop(c)     # execute other recipe

* (internal) kook.config.stdout and kook.config.stderr are removed.



See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-CHANGES.txt for details.


Have fun!

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov  5 03:50:42 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 03:50:42 -0400
Subject: SystemError when defining
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUf=eO80YM5dD-F46ZKTVoG_OcW+VRJPbVG0eUawFUQFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1F8qXCTPKrJfMh_jNS+HWNLPfDrWr-3BvdHDJ2+eP7EaWoGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoeAMhH2fLMhR_R9iUgceWVZAWDMUu6=E0egN8C6-TS=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUYn-8BGzwKkRsRH27p0tX1igkJ3NBvQYTdKiRnzf4MFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXXnZz71b4GhgWpDVwD1kLXx6yA==YE5y-k8x0OHd3DoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j920p7$2aj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qUf=eO80YM5dD-F46ZKTVoG_OcW+VRJPbVG0eUawFUQFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j92pt0$s6b$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/4/2011 9:53 PM, Joshua Landau wrote:
>     Joshua found bugs.python.org <http://bugs.python.org>and, 2 hours
>     later, a fix was applied.
>     http://bugs.python.org/__issue13343 <http://bugs.python.org/issue13343>
>
>
> It was impressively fast. Those python devs are like a hawk.
> Although I wasn't expecting a three-line patch (plus a three line test).

We are not always so fast, but the public perception of our speed is 
skewed by a) the occasional bug that sits on the tracker for years and 
b) the near invisibility of bugs caught and quickly fixed by a developer 
without posting an issue on the tracker.

In this case, you made a very good report with a minimal reproducible 
buggy code snippet, plus a report of similar snippets that worked. Then 
it was quickly seen by someone familiar with the relevant file.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 07:11:42 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:11:42 -0400
Subject: Can I fully replace GNU Bash with Python?
In-Reply-To: <a8736626-516f-40b7-8b0f-053b2c52a03a@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a8736626-516f-40b7-8b0f-053b2c52a03a@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJ6VZZVKzJRpoY5_SLuvLoW8iUeXDJJ47auGfP0hRywOw@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there a way I can replace the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script
> with a ~/develop/1-build/swift.py script, yet still retain the ability
> to work on one major function WITHOUT requiring the other major
> functions and the 1-build directory to be present?

I thought I followed along, but I don't see where the problem is here.
Did you try something and it didn't work, or are you asking if in
principle it can work?

In principle, it can work fine. the mainfunction modules can be
importable modules with some functions, or they can be (like they are
in sh) runnable scripts called by your build script, or whatever. You
can diverge as much as you want from how sh works, or stay as close as
you want, down to the level of only interoperating with other python
modules by invoking them as programs.

Devin

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Jason Hsu, Mr. Swift Linux
<jhsu802701 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This question concerns my process of creating Swift Linux from the
> base distro (antiX Linux in the past, Linux Mint Debian Edition now).
> (NOTE: The process I'm describing here is an oversimplification.)
>
> All of my development work takes place in the ~/develop directory.
> This is the directory where I enter the "git clone" command to
> download the repositories from GitHub. ?These repositories are 1-
> build, majorfunction1, majorfunction2, and so on. ?After I download
> these repositories, I have the directories ~/develop/1-build, ~/
> develop/majorfunction1, ~/develop/majorfunction2, and so on.
>
> The ~/develop/1-build directory contains the scripts that build Swift
> Linux. ?Each major function needed to create Swift Linux (such as
> changing web browser configuration files, changing login manager
> configuration files, etc.) has its own majorfunction# repository.
>
> For developing the latest version of Swift Linux, I had the swift.sh
> script in the ?~/develop/1-build directory call scripts in the
> majorfunction directories with commands like:
> sh ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.sh
> sh ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.sh
> and so on
>
> Please note that one can run any of these major functions
> independently OR as part of the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script.
> The ability to run any major function independently means I can focus
> on just one function that's not working as it should WITHOUT messing
> around with other functions. ?This ability will be especially
> important when I have an actual team working on Swift Linux.
>
> What I'd like to do is replace GNU Bash with Python. ?I know I can
> replace the main.sh scripts with main.py scripts. ?Then the commands
> in the swift.sh script would be:
> python ~/develop/majorfunction1/main.py
> python ~/develop/majorfunction2/main.py
> and so on
>
> Is there a way I can replace the ~/develop/1-build/swift.sh script
> with a ~/develop/1-build/swift.py script, yet still retain the ability
> to work on one major function WITHOUT requiring the other major
> functions and the 1-build directory to be present?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From pacopyc at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 08:50:38 2011
From: pacopyc at gmail.com (pacopyc)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 05:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: xml-rpc server on wine
Message-ID: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a XML-RPC server python running on VM Windows (on Linux)
and a XML-RPC client python on Linux. Server and client have different
IP address. I'd like migrate server on wine. How can communicate
server and client? IP address is different or is the same?
Can you help me?

Thanks


From ross at biostat.ucsf.edu  Sat Nov  5 15:03:27 2011
From: ross at biostat.ucsf.edu (Ross Boylan)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:03:27 -0700
Subject: inserting \ in regular expressions [solved]
In-Reply-To: <1319658482.13425.9.camel@corn.betterworld.us>
References: <1319658482.13425.9.camel@corn.betterworld.us>
Message-ID: <1320519807.18391.5.camel@corn.betterworld.us>

On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 12:48 -0700, Ross Boylan wrote:
> I want to replace every \ and " (the two characters for backslash and
> double quotes) with a \ and the same character, i.e.,
> \ -> \\
> " -> \"
I'd like to thank Ian, Dave, MRAB, and John for their helpful responses.
I hadn't realized the interpreter was giving me the repr, and that
differed from the str.

I've since found one other solution: email.utils.quote() does exactly
the substitution I was looking for--not surprising, since I was doing it
for email.

Here's my little test program:
#! /usr/bin/python
import email, email.utils, re
s0 = r'I am " a silly \quote'
print s0
print re.sub(r'(\\|")', r'\\\1', s0)
print email.utils.quote(s0)

Output
I am " a silly \quote
I am \" a silly \\quote
I am \" a silly \\quote

Ross




From logic at op.pl  Sat Nov  5 15:30:12 2011
From: logic at op.pl (wojciech777)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: httpd.conf configuration for mod_wsgi.so on wamp (apache)?
Message-ID: <ae57a3db-80dd-4f28-a037-0f8eeee18820@u12g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>

Hi there.

Is there any way to run python web application (or simple web page in
web.py) on Windows with wamp without starting built-in wsgi server
manually (python run.py).

I know there's a documentation on http://webpy.org/install#apachemodwsgi,
but it doesn't show where exactly in httpd.conf I should place the
commands.

In my example I would like to get start page, simply by typing in my
browser e.g. http://localhost:8070, and my file is located in: c:/
wamp/
www/xaura/run.py

source of run.py:
#!/usr/bin/env python
import web
urls = ('/', 'hello',
        '', 'hello')
class hello:
    def GET(self):
        return "Hello, world."
app = web.application(urls, globals())
if __name__ == "__main__": app.run()

Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Wojciech Ka?mierczak


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 16:11:28 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 13:11:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
Message-ID: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hello:

A new guy showed up at work a few weeks ago and has started talking
about replacing a 6 month old project, written in ASP.NET MVC, with an
open source solution that can handle massive scaling. I think his
primary concern is the "potential" need for massive web farms in the
future. In order to prevent high licensing costs, I think he wants to
move everything to open source technologies, such as the LAMP stack. I
also don't think he truly understands what ASP.NET MVC is and thinks
it is the older WebForms.

I have been researching open source MVC frameworks and came across
Django. It looks like an awesome tool, but I am willing to look at
others. I have experience in Python (and enough in PHP to want to
avoid it and absolutely none in Ruby) so I think it would be a good
language to develop in.

I was wondering if there were any ORMs for Python that used POPOs
(plain old Python objects). There is a lot of business logic in my
system, and so I want to keep my data objects simple and stupid. I
want the ORM to be responsible for detecting changes to objects after
I send them back to the data layer (rather than during business layer
execution). Additionally, being a stateless environment, tracking
objects' states isn't very useful anyway.

Honestly, I doubt this guy is going to get his wish. The people paying
for the application aren't going to be willing to throw 6 months of
work down the drain. Never the less, I want to have plenty of research
under my belt before being asked what my thoughts are. He was talking
about using the Zend Framework with PHP, but I want to avoid that if
possible. Django seems like one of the best MVC solutions in the
Python arena. I would be willing to replace Django's ORM solution with
something else, especially if it supported POPOs. I could even map all
of the non-POPOs to POPOs if I needed to, I guess.

Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
accepting POPOs from the data layer. Django would really just be a
coordinator: grab data from Django ORM, convert results into POPOs,
load up Python 3 module with business logic, passing POPOs, returning
POPOs and then converting those to view models. I'm sweating just
thinking about it. My guess is that there would be a severe penalty
for crossing process boundaries... but any insights would be
appreciated.

Thanks,
Travis Parks


From nawijn at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 16:35:55 2011
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 13:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0fe2f129-bbe2-4c7e-99e7-48f21b87a3bf@c1g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 5, 9:11?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> A new guy showed up at work a few weeks ago and has started talking
> about replacing a 6 month old project, written in ASP.NET MVC, with an
> open source solution that can handle massive scaling. I think his
> primary concern is the "potential" need for massive web farms in the
> future. In order to prevent high licensing costs, I think he wants to
> move everything to open source technologies, such as the LAMP stack. I
> also don't think he truly understands what ASP.NET MVC is and thinks
> it is the older WebForms.
>
> I have been researching open source MVC frameworks and came across
> Django. It looks like an awesome tool, but I am willing to look at
> others. I have experience in Python (and enough in PHP to want to
> avoid it and absolutely none in Ruby) so I think it would be a good
> language to develop in.
>
> I was wondering if there were any ORMs for Python that used POPOs
> (plain old Python objects). There is a lot of business logic in my
> system, and so I want to keep my data objects simple and stupid. I
> want the ORM to be responsible for detecting changes to objects after
> I send them back to the data layer (rather than during business layer
> execution). Additionally, being a stateless environment, tracking
> objects' states isn't very useful anyway.
>
> Honestly, I doubt this guy is going to get his wish. The people paying
> for the application aren't going to be willing to throw 6 months of
> work down the drain. Never the less, I want to have plenty of research
> under my belt before being asked what my thoughts are. He was talking
> about using the Zend Framework with PHP, but I want to avoid that if
> possible. Django seems like one of the best MVC solutions in the
> Python arena. I would be willing to replace Django's ORM solution with
> something else, especially if it supported POPOs. I could even map all
> of the non-POPOs to POPOs if I needed to, I guess.
>
> Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
> out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
> can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
> accepting POPOs from the data layer. Django would really just be a
> coordinator: grab data from Django ORM, convert results into POPOs,
> load up Python 3 module with business logic, passing POPOs, returning
> POPOs and then converting those to view models. I'm sweating just
> thinking about it. My guess is that there would be a severe penalty
> for crossing process boundaries... but any insights would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

Hello Travis,

I am not an expert in the field,  but I have used SQLAlchemy
(www.sqlalchemy.org)
for a while and was very happy with it. It should be able to scale up
to pretty
complex applications and large amounts of data.

Regards,

Marco


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 18:09:25 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 09:09:25 +1100
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmodoE1rRyGFq_DoOomy0SZyPfaEH7Re67C6Z54HknYPPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
> out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
> can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
> accepting POPOs from the data layer.

What you're going to have is completely separate processes; either
invoking Python3 and having it terminate after one action, or keeping
it running concurrently and passing data between them.

Has anyone ever extended AND embedded Python at the same time? Written
a Python module that ... executes Python code? Might be a bit tricky,
but possibly isolating the Py2 and Py3 code into different C source
files would help conserve programmer sanity (at the possible cost of
performance). Would be a tricky thing to juggle, but if you can pull
it off, you'd be able to - effectively - have a module in Django
that's written in Python 3, and directly callable.

Propagating parameters and return values would be a matter of
unpacking them into C objects and repacking them on the other side.
Propagating exceptions would be.... fun?

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 23:22:34 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 20:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 5, 4:11?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> A new guy showed up at work a few weeks ago and has started talking
> about replacing a 6 month old project, written in ASP.NET MVC, with an
> open source solution that can handle massive scaling. I think his
> primary concern is the "potential" need for massive web farms in the
> future. In order to prevent high licensing costs, I think he wants to
> move everything to open source technologies, such as the LAMP stack. I
> also don't think he truly understands what ASP.NET MVC is and thinks
> it is the older WebForms.
>
> I have been researching open source MVC frameworks and came across
> Django. It looks like an awesome tool, but I am willing to look at
> others. I have experience in Python (and enough in PHP to want to
> avoid it and absolutely none in Ruby) so I think it would be a good
> language to develop in.
>
> I was wondering if there were any ORMs for Python that used POPOs
> (plain old Python objects). There is a lot of business logic in my
> system, and so I want to keep my data objects simple and stupid. I
> want the ORM to be responsible for detecting changes to objects after
> I send them back to the data layer (rather than during business layer
> execution). Additionally, being a stateless environment, tracking
> objects' states isn't very useful anyway.
>
> Honestly, I doubt this guy is going to get his wish. The people paying
> for the application aren't going to be willing to throw 6 months of
> work down the drain. Never the less, I want to have plenty of research
> under my belt before being asked what my thoughts are. He was talking
> about using the Zend Framework with PHP, but I want to avoid that if
> possible. Django seems like one of the best MVC solutions in the
> Python arena. I would be willing to replace Django's ORM solution with
> something else, especially if it supported POPOs. I could even map all
> of the non-POPOs to POPOs if I needed to, I guess.
>
> Finally, I wanted to ask whether anyone has tried having Django call
> out to Python 3 routines. I am okay using Python 2.7 in Django, if I
> can have the controllers call business logic implemented in Python 3,
> accepting POPOs from the data layer. Django would really just be a
> coordinator: grab data from Django ORM, convert results into POPOs,
> load up Python 3 module with business logic, passing POPOs, returning
> POPOs and then converting those to view models. I'm sweating just
> thinking about it. My guess is that there would be a severe penalty
> for crossing process boundaries... but any insights would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
I can, to help form an unbiased opinion in case I need to make a
recommendation... or fight an all out battle.


From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 00:45:39 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 21:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What would happen when lisp meets prolog in python? Dao and Dinpy
	arises!
Message-ID: <d5cd84d9-b897-45f3-a335-d66ea5c63d90@e5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Dao is the new generation programming system implemented by a
functional logic solver,
unifying code with data, grammar with program, logic with functional,
compiling with running.

Would you please to have a look at my dao and dinpy?
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/daot
https://github.com/chaosim/dao

The feature of dao and dinpy:
* Mix functional and logic programming like prolog and lisp in python.
* A most powerful parser is provided, which have the power all of the
other parsers do not have. below is the list of some parser and
algorithms: parsec(haskell), packrat, earley parser, glr parser,
antlr, lex/yacc.
  What's the magic behind the dao? See samples\sexpression.py and
testsexpression.py for a sample.

  this is the key tips to the dao's dynamic grammar, which will become
a most powerful tool:

  (sexpression, function(
     # dynamic grammar arises!
    ([Result], and_p(char('{'), sexpression(Expr2), char('}'),
                     setvalue(Result,
eval_(pycall(sexpression2daoexpression, Expr2))))),

    ([Expr], atom_expression(Expr)),
    ([Expr], bracketExpression(Expr)),
    ([Expr], puncExpression(Expr))),

  # the kernel of dynamic grammar
  (eval_parse_result, function(
    ([Result], and_p(sexpression(Expr2), eoi,
          is_(Result, eval_(pycall(sexpression2daoexpression,
Expr2))))))),


From frank at chagford.com  Sun Nov  6 03:54:48 2011
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 10:54:48 +0200
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
Message-ID: <j95i0q$a8v$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hi all

I am using a few DB_API adaptors - ceODBC for Sql Server, psycopg2 for 
PostgreSQL, and sqlite3 for sqlite3.

They all offer the feature that if a cursor executes a SELECT, the cursor 
returns an iterator which can be used to fetch one row at a time. I have 
been using this feature for a while and it seems like a 'good thing'.

Now I am not so sure. I am using a connection pool to maintain connections 
to the database. A principle I am following is that a connection must be 
returned quickly, so that it is available for reuse.

I have been happily returning the connection, but keeping the cursor open 
while processing the rows selected. I now realise that this is dangerous. 
Therefore I have changed my system to execute fetchall() on the cursor 
before returning the connection. This obviously loses the benefit of the 
iterator.

I would appreciate confirmation that my thinking is correct on this issue. 
Or is there any way that I can have my cake and eat it?

Thanks

Frank Millman




From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Sun Nov  6 04:16:22 2011
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:16:22 +0100
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

"Frank Millman" <frank at chagford.com> writes:

> I am using a few DB_API adaptors - ceODBC for Sql Server, psycopg2 for
> PostgreSQL, and sqlite3 for sqlite3.
>
> They all offer the feature that if a cursor executes a SELECT, the
> cursor returns an iterator which can be used to fetch one row at a
> time. I have been using this feature for a while and it seems like a
> good thing'.
>
> Now I am not so sure. I am using a connection pool to maintain
> connections to the database. A principle I am following is that a
> connection must be returned quickly, so that it is available for
> reuse.
>
> I have been happily returning the connection, but keeping the cursor
> open while processing the rows selected. I now realise that this is
> dangerous. Therefore I have changed my system to execute fetchall() on
> the cursor before returning the connection. This obviously loses the
> benefit of the iterator.
>
> I would appreciate confirmation that my thinking is correct on this
> issue. Or is there any way that I can have my cake and eat it?

Your thinking is correct: you need to keep the connection while
processing the cursor. Databases are made to scale, you may well be
processing the first lines of the result before the DBMS has even
finished scanning tables. View this as a pipe, the cursor being one end
of the pipe. The usual setting, fetching one line at a time, lets you
overlap your processing with the network transfers.

Fetching all data, returning the connection, and then start processing
only makes sense if the processing take a lot of time (I mean: a lot
more than fetching results), which is a rare case. Unless you are in
such an extreme situation, I would suggest leaving the optimization to
the connection pool, which is here to solve what you are trying to
solve.

-- Alain.


From frank at chagford.com  Sun Nov  6 04:39:56 2011
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 11:39:56 +0200
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <j95kld$ng4$1@dough.gmane.org>


"Alain Ketterlin" <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote
> "Frank Millman" <frank at chagford.com> writes:
>
>> I am using a few DB_API adaptors - ceODBC for Sql Server, psycopg2 for
>> PostgreSQL, and sqlite3 for sqlite3.
>>
>> They all offer the feature that if a cursor executes a SELECT, the
>> cursor returns an iterator which can be used to fetch one row at a
>> time. I have been using this feature for a while and it seems like a
>> good thing'.
>>
>> Now I am not so sure. I am using a connection pool to maintain
>> connections to the database. A principle I am following is that a
>> connection must be returned quickly, so that it is available for
>> reuse.
>>
>> I have been happily returning the connection, but keeping the cursor
>> open while processing the rows selected. I now realise that this is
>> dangerous. Therefore I have changed my system to execute fetchall() on
>> the cursor before returning the connection. This obviously loses the
>> benefit of the iterator.
>>
>> I would appreciate confirmation that my thinking is correct on this
>> issue. Or is there any way that I can have my cake and eat it?
>
> Your thinking is correct: you need to keep the connection while
> processing the cursor. Databases are made to scale, you may well be
> processing the first lines of the result before the DBMS has even
> finished scanning tables. View this as a pipe, the cursor being one end
> of the pipe. The usual setting, fetching one line at a time, lets you
> overlap your processing with the network transfers.
>
> Fetching all data, returning the connection, and then start processing
> only makes sense if the processing take a lot of time (I mean: a lot
> more than fetching results), which is a rare case. Unless you are in
> such an extreme situation, I would suggest leaving the optimization to
> the connection pool, which is here to solve what you are trying to
> solve.
>

Thank you, Alain. That is very clear.

So my analysis of the problem is correct, but my solution is wrong.

Instead of executing fetchall() and returning the connection, I should 
retain the connection until I have exhausted the cursor.

That makes a lot of sense.

Frank




From merwin.irc at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 04:44:06 2011
From: merwin.irc at gmail.com (Merwin)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:44:06 +0100
Subject: SQLAlchemy DB Migration
Message-ID: <4EB656E6.2020805@gmail.com>

Hi everybody,

I'm looking for a way to migrate SQLAlchemy based database easily. I 
found Migrate, but finally it's almost the same as doing the migration 
by hand.

If this doesn't exists, do you think that it would be hard to do a 
simple migration tool which would :

     - Add/Delete columns from DB if they are not anymore in the models 
(With a confirmation for deletion)
     - Add/Delete constraints/sequences on table if they are not on the 
model too

We could also imagine a way to :

     - Handle column rename, with data copy from one to another
     - Handle column type change, with proper data conversion

Of course, such a system can't be 100% automated, that's not the goal. 
Human interventation will be needed, but it might be more simpler for 
simple cases than Migrate.

--
Thibaut


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From kevin.e.kenny at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 08:18:08 2011
From: kevin.e.kenny at gmail.com (Kev)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 05:18:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to undo a Python setuptools --prefix path blunder
Message-ID: <543f5b85-1248-4039-a12d-5bbcb2fb0f51@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

When I installed Python's setuptools I absent mindedly tacked on a --
prefix path I had been using on another machine:

sh setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg --prefix=/opt/python2.7.2

Now after this blunder when I try to install pip I get the following
error:

[root at kkdev src]# easy_install pip
Searching for pip
Best match: pip 1.0.2
Processing pip-1.0.2-py2.7.egg
pip 1.0.2 is already the active version in easy-install.pth
Installing pip script to /usr/bin
error: /usr/bin/pip: No such file or directory

What's happening is that a symbolic link is being created that points
to the folder I specified in the --prefix path which is obviously
wrong:

[root at kkdev src]# ls -al /usr/bin/pip
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Nov  5 17:01 /usr/bin/pip -> /opt/
python2.7.2/bin/pip

I deleted this link and then re-ran the setuptools installer and
specified the correct prefix (my Python install lives in /usr/lib/
python2.7):

sh setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg --prefix=/usr

I then re-ran easy_install pip and it looked like I'd fixed my finger
trouble. However when I went to install virtualenv I encountered the
same problem:

[root at kkdev src]# pip install virtualenv

[uninteresting installer output snipped]

Installing virtualenv script to /usr/bin

error: /usr/bin/virtualenv: No such file or directory

Again the wrong path is being used to create the symbolic link to
where virtualenv is installed:

[root at kkdev src]# ls -al /usr/bin/virtualenv
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 Nov  5 17:01 /usr/bin/virtualenv -> /opt/
python2.7.2/bin/virtualenv

(I'm running Fedora 15 32bit which has Python 2.7.1 installed out of
the box)

How do I fix/repair this permanently?

Thanks
Kevin





From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov  6 10:17:54 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:17:54 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
Message-ID: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>

Hi

This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that 
places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
     https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools

I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year by 
the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about 100,000 
files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and do a few 
other things.

CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the 
latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many 
earlier versions.

I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version control. 
Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's putting new 
files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
     http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/

My script works already as a proof of concept, but needs more work (and 
documentation) before it becomes useful.  I've requested that follow up 
goes to comp.text.tex.

Longer terms goals are git as
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_storage
* a resource editing and linking system

If you didn't know, a git tree is much like an immutable JSON object, 
except that it does not have arrays or numbers.

If my project interests you, reply to this message or contact me 
directly (or both).

-- 
Jonathan


From jnareb at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 11:42:23 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 08:42:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m37h3d430e.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:

> Hi
> 
> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>      https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools

I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.
 
> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
> do a few other things.

There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
out.
 
> CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the
> latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many
> earlier versions.

There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
of gitPAN, see e.g.:

  "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
  http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
 
[1]: https://github.com/gitpan

> I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version
> control. Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's
> putting new files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
>      http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/

Nb. thanks to tools such as git-hg and fast-import / fast-export
we have quite good interoperability and convertability between
Git and Mercurial.

P.S. I'd point to reposurgeon tool, which can be used to do fixups
after import, but it would probably won't work on such large (set of)
repositories.

P.P.S. Can you forward it to comp.text.tex?
-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


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From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Nov  6 13:14:43 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 13:14:43 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
Message-ID: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>

Greetings experts:

I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and 
fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python 
isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.

But it also runs instantly on linux.

This line looks suspect to me:
 rootdir = sys.argv[1]

And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.

How can I fix that best?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Most of the fear that spoils our life comes from attacking difficulties
before we get to them.
		-- Dr. Frank Crane


From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov  6 13:19:39 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:19:39 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>
> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is 
often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to 
put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select 
suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular package. 
Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all resources needed 
to process this file, exactly as it processes on my machine".

In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a 
git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011 
to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the ISO 
when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to pull 
the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).

>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>> do a few other things.
>
> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
> out.

Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what I 
want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some (but 
not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
 
https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py

In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref 
at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of a 
TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so any 
commit information would be effectively constant.

>> CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the
>> latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many
>> earlier versions.
>
> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>
>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>
> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan

This is really good to know!!!  Not only has this been done already, for 
similar reasons, but github is hosting it.  Life is easier when there is 
a good example to follow.

>> I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version
>> control. Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's
>> putting new files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
>>       http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/
>
> Nb. thanks to tools such as git-hg and fast-import / fast-export
> we have quite good interoperability and convertability between
> Git and Mercurial.
>
> P.S. I'd point to reposurgeon tool, which can be used to do fixups
> after import, but it would probably won't work on such large (set of)
> repositories.

Thank you for the pointer to reposurgeon.  My approach is a bit 
different.  First, get all the files into git, and then 'edit the tree' 
to create new trees.  And then commit worthwhile new trees.

As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux 
kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But no 
commit.

> P.P.S. Can you forward it to comp.text.tex?

Done.

-- 
Jonathan



From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov  6 13:19:39 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:19:39 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>
> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is 
often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to 
put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select 
suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular package. 
Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all resources needed 
to process this file, exactly as it processes on my machine".

In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a 
git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011 
to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the ISO 
when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to pull 
the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).

>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>> do a few other things.
>
> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
> out.

Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what I 
want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some (but 
not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
 
https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py

In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref 
at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of a 
TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so any 
commit information would be effectively constant.

>> CTAN is the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network.  CTAN keeps only the
>> latest version of each file, but old CTAN snapshots will provide many
>> earlier versions.
>
> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>
>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>
> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan

This is really good to know!!!  Not only has this been done already, for 
similar reasons, but github is hosting it.  Life is easier when there is 
a good example to follow.

>> I'm working on putting old CTAN files into modern version
>> control. Martin Scharrer is working in the other direction.  He's
>> putting new files added to CTAN into Mercurial.
>>       http://ctanhg.scharrer-online.de/
>
> Nb. thanks to tools such as git-hg and fast-import / fast-export
> we have quite good interoperability and convertability between
> Git and Mercurial.
>
> P.S. I'd point to reposurgeon tool, which can be used to do fixups
> after import, but it would probably won't work on such large (set of)
> repositories.

Thank you for the pointer to reposurgeon.  My approach is a bit 
different.  First, get all the files into git, and then 'edit the tree' 
to create new trees.  And then commit worthwhile new trees.

As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux 
kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But no 
commit.

> P.P.S. Can you forward it to comp.text.tex?

Done.

-- 
Jonathan



From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 15:00:59 2011
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 12:00:59 -0800
Subject: RSS feed creation?
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
require large dependencies?

I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
automated test gives a traceback.

Is there a better starting point?

(I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
for either)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20111106/5b74e375/attachment-0001.html>

From d at davea.name  Sun Nov  6 15:21:12 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:21:12 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>

On 11/06/2011 01:14 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings experts:
>
> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and
> fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python
> isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
>
> But it also runs instantly on linux.
>
> This line looks suspect to me:
>   rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>
> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
>
> How can I fix that best?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene

Nothing wrong with that line, assuming the user of the script happened 
to provide an argument for rootpath.  Probably it should be preceded by 
a a conditional:

     if len(argv) <2:
            tell.user.that.she's.missing.the.rootdir.parameter
      else:
            rootdir = sys.argv[1]
            etc.

What does the help text show when you run the script with the --help 
argument?

-- 

DaveA



From jnareb at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 15:28:33 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: 06 Nov 2011 21:28:33 +0100
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:
> On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>>
>>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>>
>> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
>> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

[moved]
>> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
>> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
>> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>>
>>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan
[/moved]
 
> There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is
> often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to
> put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
(i.e. during install).
 
Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
> machine".

This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)

This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.


But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
have best user interface.
 
> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

???

> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
_clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.

Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
different.

> But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).
> 
>>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>>> do a few other things.
>>
>> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
>> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
>> out.
> 
> Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what
> I want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some
> (but not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
>  https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py
> 
> In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref
> at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of
> a TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so
> any commit information would be effectively constant.

Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
 
> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
> no commit.

That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


From jnareb at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 15:29:28 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 12:29:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to comp.lang.python,comp.text.tex as well.

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:
> On 06/11/11 16:42, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>> Jonathan Fine<jfine at pytex.org>  writes:
>>
>>> This it to let you know that I'm writing (in Python) a script that
>>> places the content of CTAN into a git repository.
>>>       https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools
>>
>> I hope that you meant "repositories" (plural) here, one per tool,
>> rather than putting all of CTAN into single Git repository.

[moved]
>> There was similar effort done in putting CPAN (Comprehensive _Perl_
>> Archive Network) in Git, hosting repositories on GitHub[1], by the name
>> of gitPAN, see e.g.:
>>
>>    "The gitPAN Import is Complete"
>>    http://perlisalive.com/articles/36
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/gitpan
[/moved]
 
> There are complex dependencies among LaTeX macro packages, and TeX is
> often distributed and installed from a DVD.  So it makes sense here to
> put *all* the content of a DVD into a repository.

Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
(i.e. during install).
 
Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
> machine".

This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)

This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.


But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
have best user interface.
 
> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.

???

> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.

No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
_clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.

Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
different.

> But as I proceed, perhaps I'll change my mind (smile).
> 
>>> I'm working from the TeX Collection DVDs that are published each year
>>> by the TeX user groups, which contain a snapshot of CTAN (about
>>> 100,000 files occupying 4Gb), which means I have to unzip folders and
>>> do a few other things.
>>
>> There is 'contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py' in git.git repository.
>> If you are not using it, or its equivalent, it might be worth checking
>> out.
> 
> Well, I didn't know about that.  I took a look, and it doesn't do what
> I want.  I need to walk the tree (on a mounted ISO) and unpack some
> (but not all) zip files as I come across them.  For details see:
>  https://bitbucket.org/jfine/python-ctantools/src/tip/ctantools/filetools.py
> 
> In addition, I don't want to make a commit.  I just want to make a ref
> at the end of building the tree.  This is because I want the import of
> a TeX DVD to give effectively identical results for all users, and so
> any commit information would be effectively constant.

Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
 
> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
> no commit.

That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Nov  6 15:34:29 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 07:34:29 +1100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <20111106203429.GA4790@cskk.homeip.net>

On 06Nov2011 13:14, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
| Greetings experts:
| 
| I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and 
| fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python 
| isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
| 
| But it also runs instantly on linux.
| 
| This line looks suspect to me:
|  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
| 
| And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.

That line collects the first command line argument. sys.argv is the
command line; argv[0] is the command name, argv[1] the first argument
and so forth.

Also, if there is no first argument then trying to access argv[1] will
raise an IndexError exception, not return a null value.

If you're this new to python, note that easy debugging statements can be
written:

  print >>sys.stderr, "the value of foo is", foo

and so forth.

Perhaps more relevantly:

If you have unmangled a lot of tabs, remember that control flow is
indentation based in python, and you may have broken some logic.
(For this reason a number of us set our editors to work only in spaces).

Anyway, while changing:

  statement1
  statement2

into:

  statement1
    statement2

will usually make python complain, changing:

  if some test here:
    statement1
    statement2

into:

  if some test here:
    statement1
  statement2

just means that statement2 is no longer inside the if-statement, and
elicit no compaints. But will elicit bugs!

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

The ZZR-1100 is not the bike for me, but the day they invent "nerf" roads
and ban radars I'll be the first in line......AMCN


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Nov  6 18:10:03 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:10:03 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>
Message-ID: <201111061810.03728.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Sunday, November 06, 2011 06:07:36 PM Dave Angel did opine:

> On 11/06/2011 01:14 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Greetings experts:
> > 
> > I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
> > and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
> > least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
> > 
> > But it also runs instantly on linux.
> > 
> > This line looks suspect to me:
> >   rootdir = sys.argv[1]
> > 
> > And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
> > 
> > How can I fix that best?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Nothing wrong with that line, assuming the user of the script happened
> to provide an argument for rootpath.  Probably it should be preceded by
> a a conditional:
> 
>      if len(argv) <2:
>             tell.user.that.she's.missing.the.rootdir.parameter
>       else:
>             rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>             etc.
> 
> What does the help text show when you run the script with the --help
> argument?

It has no --help:
[root at coyote gene]# ./duqu-drivers-detect.py --help
[root at coyote gene]#

Sorry.

Thanks & Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Expedience is the best teacher.


From devplayer at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 18:23:02 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 15:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Usefulness of the "not in" operator
References: <4e902932$0$23273$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<87ehyn8xlp.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<4acd4e59-cf83-47f5-ac6c-ee0cbec8aa34@u13g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>
	<4e9a6614$0$29971$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <35178454-e3e3-4268-8841-8709c93a4719@g7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 16, 12:05?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:04:24 -0700, DevPlayer wrote:
> > I thought "x not in y" was later added as syntax sugar for "not x in y"
> > meaning they used the same set of tokens. (Too lazy to check the actual
> > tokens)
Stated in response to OP wanting a seperate token for "not in" verse
"is not".

> Whether the compiler has a special token for "not in" is irrelevant.
I don't know.

> Perhaps it uses one token, or two, or none at all because a
> pre-processor changes "x not in y" to "not x in y". That's
> an implementation detail.
I agree.

> What's important is whether it is valid syntax or not, and how it is
> implemented.
I agree.

> As it turns out, the Python compiler does not distinguish the two forms:
>
> >>> from dis import dis
> >>> dis(compile('x not in y', '', 'single'))
>
> ? 1 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1 (y)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 COMPARE_OP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7 (not in)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 PRINT_EXPR
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 RETURN_VALUE ? ? ? ?>>> dis(compile('not x in y', '', 'single'))
>
> ? 1 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_NAME ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1 (y)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 COMPARE_OP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7 (not in)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 PRINT_EXPR
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 RETURN_VALUE

So cool! Thanks for showing how to do that.

I tried to say implementing a seperate method was not efficient.

> Also for what it is worth, "x not in y" goes back to at least Python 1.5,
> and possibly even older. (I don't have any older versions available to
> test.)
So "not in" was added as an alternative (just a long time ago).
I too am glad they added it.

> (2) Instead of writing "True if blah else False", write "bool(blah)".
Good tip! I like.

>
> > class Y(object):
> > ? ? def __contains__(self, x):
> > ? ? ? ? for item in y:
> > ? ? ? ?     if x == y:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?     return True
> > ? ? ? ? return False
>
> You don't have to define a __contains__ method if you just want to test
> each item sequentially. All you need is to obey the sequence protocol and
> define a __getitem__ that works in the conventional way:

Didn't intend to show how to implement __contains__ using "==" and
__not_contains__ "<>" in python but to show that python didn't benefit
from the not_in loop as much as for example assembly language does
it's loop (x86 LOOPE/LOOPZ vs LOOPNZ/LOOPNE).

>
> >>> class Test:
>
> ... ? ? def __init__(self, args):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? self._data = list(args)
> ... ? ? def __getitem__(self, i):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? return self._data[i]
> ...>>> t = Test("abcde")
> >>> "c" in t
> True
> >>> "x" in t
> False
Another new thing for me.

>
> Defining a specialist __contains__ method is only necessary for non-
> sequences, or if you have some fast method for testing whether an item is
> in the object quickly. If all you do is test each element one at a time,
> in numeric order, don't bother writing __contains__.
>
> > And if you wanted "x not in y" to be a different token you'd have to ADD
>
> Tokens are irrelevant. "x not in y" is defined to be the same as "not x
> in y" no matter what.
> You can't define "not in" to do something completely different.
I agree they are not implemented differently.
I agree that they shouldn't be implemented differently.
I disagree they can not be implemented differently. I think they can.
But I see no reason too.

> > class Y(object):
> > ? ? def __not_contained__(self, x):
> > ? ? ? ? for item in self:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? if x == y:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
> > ? ? ? ? return True
>
> > AND with __not_contained__() you'd always have to iterate the entire
> > sequence to make sure even the last item doesn't match.
> > SO with one token "x not in y" you DON'T have to itterate through the
> > entire sequence thus it is more effiecient.
> That's not correct.
> Steven
I tried to prove my point and failded and instead proved (to myself)
you are correct. It is not more efficient. Also I should have used if
<> y: continue to have better tried to make the point but it wouldn't
have mattered. I still would have been wrong.

But I did walk away from this topic with some goodie tips. Thanks
Steven.




From d at davea.name  Sun Nov  6 18:27:23 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:27:23 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111061810.03728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB6EC38.20708@davea.name>
	<201111061810.03728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB717DB.2000303@davea.name>

On 11/06/2011 06:10 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Sunday, November 06, 2011 06:07:36 PM Dave Angel did opine:
>
>> On 11/06/2011 01:14 PM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings experts:
>>>
>>> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
>>> and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
>>> least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
>>>
>>> But it also runs instantly on linux.
>>>
>>> This line looks suspect to me:
>>>    rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>>>
>>> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
>>>
>>> How can I fix that best?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene
>>
>> Nothing wrong with that line, assuming the user of the script happened
>> to provide an argument for rootpath.  Probably it should be preceded by
>> a a conditional:
>>
>>       if len(argv)<2:
>>              tell.user.that.she's.missing.the.rootdir.parameter
>>        else:
>>              rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>>              etc.
>>
>> What does the help text show when you run the script with the --help
>> argument?
>
> It has no --help:
> [root at coyote gene]# ./duqu-drivers-detect.py --help
> [root at coyote gene]#
>
> Sorry.
>
> Thanks&  Cheers, Gene


So is there any documentation?  If not, your first job is to guess what 
it's supposed to do, figure out if you care, and then document it.  In 
the process you'll probably find a few bugs.

First bug is it silently quits when you run it with no arguments. Is 
that true?  If so, figure out where it quits, since it clearly never 
reaches the line you quote.

Actually I'd probably start with the assumption that you might have 
messed up the tab expansion somewhere.  How did you expand the tabs? 
Perhaps by using the Linux expands utility?  Or did you do it manually?

-- 

DaveA


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 18:54:46 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:54:46 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <20111106203429.GA4790@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<20111106203429.GA4790@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <2FF5E7E0-B119-4906-91A7-93A095E8D620@gmail.com>

On Nov 6, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> Perhaps more relevantly:
> 
> If you have unmangled a lot of tabs, remember that control flow is
> indentation based in python, and you may have broken some logic.
> (For this reason a number of us set our editors to work only in spaces).

I would absolutely check this first.  I can't count the number of programs I've screwed up in difficult-to-detect ways because I've converted from tabs to spaces incorrectly.  It's how I've finally learned to let a program/script do it for me, because Python is the first language I've used with significant leading whitespace.

- Dave



From jiayuaw at yahoo.com.sg  Sun Nov  6 20:26:43 2011
From: jiayuaw at yahoo.com.sg (Kristen Aw)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:26:43 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: question about Tkinter delete
Message-ID: <1320629203.53499.YahooMailNeo@web77904.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

Hi all

I don't understand why I get this error. I'm trying to delete the existing points, then redraw them after this bit of code to 'animate' my simulation.

def update(self, point1, point2):
? ? ? ? # Deletes existing points
? ? ? ? if self.point1:
? ? ? ? ? ? self.w.delete(point1)
? ? ? ? ? ? self.master.update_idletasks()
? ? ? ? if self.point2:
? ? ? ? ? ? self.w.delete(point2)
? ? ? ? ? ? self.master.update_idletasks()
#draw new point
# . . .

The error message that I get is:
. . .?in update
? ? self.w.delete(point1)
? File "C:\PYTHON26\LIB\LIB-TK\Tkinter.py", line 2181, in delete
? ? self.tk.call((self._w, 'delete') + args)
TclError: invalid command name ".44593760"
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov  6 21:54:16 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Nov 2011 02:54:16 GMT
Subject: Python lesson please
References: <mailman.2468.1320603689.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb74858$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:14:43 -0500, gene heskett wrote:

> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and 
> fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least
> python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.

<raises eyebrow>

Presumably the script should be working. If it is known to be not 
working, then you probably need to fix a lot more than just indentation.

If this is "pre-alpha, doesn't even compile" software, then good luck, 
you'll need to read the source and understand it to make it work. It's 
not sufficient to just get it to a point where you can say "Cool, it 
compiles!" by fixing some indentation.

If this is supposed to be working, there's a reason why it's not working 
for you. Perhaps you are trying to use it with the wrong version of 
Python. Perhaps the download is corrupted. Fix those before mangling 
indentation in random ways: start with a fresh, uncorrupted download. 
Check that the md5 sum matches that provided by the download site 
(assuming they provide one). Find out what version of Python is 
supported, and use that.


> This line looks suspect to me:
>  rootdir = sys.argv[1]

What makes you think that line is suspect? It looks fine to me.


> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.

This is Python, not bash. Sys arguments are not filled in with "null", 
whatever you think "null" is. (The None built-in? The empty string?)

Have you tried giving the script an argument when you call it? If in 
doubt, call it with "." (the current directory) as argument.

My wild guess is that you actually need to supply a meaningful directory 
path before the script will do anything, and until then, it will silently 
fail. Which is terrible design.


> How can I fix that best?

If it's not broken, it doesn't need to be fixed. Don't make assumptions 
about what code needs to be fixed based on nothing more than gut feeling.



-- 
Steven


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sun Nov  6 23:12:58 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:12:58 +0900
Subject: [ANN] Oktest.py 0.10.0 released - a new-style testing library
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rt57qpwiKjWZ=X1dQ-p7Bju=SoYgdE-t8_jnvKreU_Wkw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I released Oktest.py 0.10.0.
http://packages.python.org/Oktest/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/oktest/

Oktest.py is a new-style testing library for Python.
::

    from oktest import ok, NG
    ok (x) > 0                 # same as assertTrue(x > 0)
    ok (s) == 'foo'            # same as assertEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (s) != 'foo'            # same as assertNotEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (f).raises(ValueError)  # same as assertRaises(ValueError, f)
    ok (u'foo').is_a(unicode)  # same as assertTrue(isinstance(u'foo', unicode))
    NG (u'foo').is_a(int)      # same as assertTrue(not isinstance(u'foo', int))
    ok ('A.txt').is_file()     # same as assertTrue(os.path.isfile('A.txt'))
    NG ('A.txt').is_dir()      # same as assertTrue(not os.path.isdir('A.txt'))

See
  http://www.kuwata-lab.com/oktest/oktest-py_users-guide.html
for details.


Changes and Enhancements
------------------------

* [change] 'oktest.spec()' is obsoleted completely.
  It will print warning message if you use it.

* [change] 'oktest.helper' module is renamed to 'oktest.util'.
  ('oktest.helper' is still available for backward compabibility.)

* [enhance] Add 'oktest.main()' which is a replacement of 'oktest.run()'.
  Using 'oktest.main()' instead of 'oktest.run()', command options are
available.
  ex::

    ## for example:
    $ python test/foobar_test.py -sp -f test='*keyword*'
    ## is almost same as:
    $ python -m oktest test/foobar_test.py -sp -f test='*keyword*'

* [enhance] Add 'oktest.fail(message)' which is same as
'unittest.fail(message)'.
  ex::

    from oktest import fail
    fail("not impelmented yet")    # will raise AssertionError

* [enhance] (Experimental) Add '@todo' decorator which is equivarent to
  '@unittest.expectedFailure'.
  ex::

    from oktest import ok, test, todo

    def add(x, y):
        return 0      # not implemented yet!

    class AddTest(unittest.TestCase):
        @test("returns sum of arguments.")
	@todo         # equivarent to @unittest.expectedFailure
        def _(self):
	    ok (10, 20) == 30   ## will be failed expectedly
	                        ## (because not implemented yet)

  Expected failure of assertion is reported as '[TODO]', not '[Failed]'.

* [enhance] (Experimental) Test context supported.
  It helps you to describe specification in structured style.
  ex::

    from oktest import ok, test
    from oktest.context import subject, situation

    class SampleTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
      SUBJECT = "class 'Sample'"

      with subject("method1()"):

        with situation("when condition:"):

          @test("spec1")
            def _(self):
            ...

          @test("spec2")
          def _(self):
            ...

        with situation("else:"):

          @test("spec3")
          def _(self):
            ...

  Output exmple::

    $ python test/example_test.py
    * class 'Sample'
      + method1()
        + when condition:
	  - [ok] spec1
	  - [ok] spec2
        + else:
	  - [ok] spec3
    ## total:3, passed:3, failed:0, error:0, skipped:0   (elapsed 0.000)


--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Nov  7 01:04:43 2011
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 22:04:43 -0800
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2472.1320609864.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>	<87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>	<j95kld$ng4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2472.1320609864.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb77503$0$1692$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

On 11/6/2011 12:04 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 11:39:56 +0200, "Frank Millman"<frank at chagford.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> So my analysis of the problem is correct, but my solution is wrong.
>>
>> Instead of executing fetchall() and returning the connection, I should
>> retain the connection until I have exhausted the cursor.
>>
>> That makes a lot of sense.
>>
> 	Especially if all you are processing are read-only activities.
>
> 	If you have a connection/cursor doing write operations, you may not
> be able to commit those writes until all reading cursors have closed.
> (Read the documentation on the SQLite3 locking system -- though the
> newest version has added a second type of locking which may complicate
> the matter. The original/normal scheme has potential readers "outside"
> SQLite3, active readers "inside" SQLite3 -- when an active reader cursor
> advances to a pending write, it blocks all the potential readers from
> entering, but is itself blocked until all other active readers have
> exited)

    Right.  The scarce resource is database locks, not connections.
Especially with SQLite, which has, by necessity, a rather brutal
locking strategy.

    Realize that SQLite is not a high-performance multi-user database.
You use SQLite to store your browser preferences, not your customer
database.

    If you're doing enough transactions from multiple processes that
performance is an issue, you need to move up to MySQL or Postgres.
If almost all transactions are SELECTs, performance may not be
too bad, but if there are INSERT and UPDATE transactions on the
same table, performance will be awful.

				John Nagle


From mcepl at redhat.com  Mon Nov  7 01:50:36 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:50:36 +0100
Subject: How to undo a Python setuptools --prefix path blunder
In-Reply-To: <543f5b85-1248-4039-a12d-5bbcb2fb0f51@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <543f5b85-1248-4039-a12d-5bbcb2fb0f51@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j97v18$6nt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Dne 6.11.2011 14:18, Kev napsal(a):
> Again the wrong path is being used to create the symbolic link to
> where virtualenv is installed:

http://packages.python.org/distribute/easy_install.html#administrator-installation 
for list of additional configuration files which might go wrong (namely 
*.pth and distutils.cfg).

Is that it?

Mat?j


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov  7 02:22:37 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:22:37 +0100
Subject: RSS feed creation?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>

Dan Stromberg, 06.11.2011 21:00:
> Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
> require large dependencies?
>
> I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
> automated test gives a traceback.
>
> Is there a better starting point?
>
> (I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
> for either)

I'd just go with ElementTree and builder.py.

http://effbot.org/zone/element-builder.htm

http://effbot.python-hosting.com/file/stuff/sandbox/elementlib/builder.py

Building an RSS-API on top of that is so trivial that it's not worth any 
further dependencies anyway. Not sure if this version of builder.py runs in 
Py3, but it certainly won't be hard to fix even if it doesn't currently.

Stefan



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov  7 03:24:59 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 09:24:59 +0100
Subject: RSS feed creation?
In-Reply-To: <j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j984kr$4gp$1@dough.gmane.org>

Stefan Behnel, 07.11.2011 08:22:
> Dan Stromberg, 06.11.2011 21:00:
>> Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
>> require large dependencies?
>>
>> I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
>> automated test gives a traceback.
>>
>> Is there a better starting point?
>>
>> (I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
>> for either)
>
> I'd just go with ElementTree and builder.py.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-builder.htm
>
> http://effbot.python-hosting.com/file/stuff/sandbox/elementlib/builder.py

Hmm, interesting, that last link doesn't seem to work for me anymore. 
Here's a copy, however:

http://svn.effbot.org/public/stuff/sandbox/elementlib/builder.py

There's also an extended version for lxml.etree:

https://raw.github.com/lxml/lxml/master/src/lxml/builder.py

You'll quickly see if it works as expected with plain ET when you use it. 
It should in general.

> Building an RSS-API on top of that is so trivial that it's not worth any
> further dependencies anyway. Not sure if this version of builder.py runs in
> Py3, but it certainly won't be hard to fix even if it doesn't currently.

Stefan



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 04:00:02 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 +0100
Subject: Python lesson please
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>

gene heskett wrote:

> Greetings experts:
> 
> I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /., and
> fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At least python
> isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
> 
> But it also runs instantly on linux.
> 
> This line looks suspect to me:
>  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
> 
> And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
> 
> How can I fix that best?

Are you talking about this one?

https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns.py

With a current checkout I don't get any tab-related (nor other) errors, so I 
would prefer to run the script as-is. Also, the  README clearly states that 
you have to invoke it with

python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware

and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware" into 
the rootdir variable.

If you want to normalize the code to 4-space indents I recomment that you 
use

http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/bbc929bc2224/Tools/scripts/reindent.py

On Ubuntu (and probably any other Debian-based distro) you'll find a version 
of that in 

/usr/share/doc/python2.6/examples/Tools/scripts/reindent.py

or similar once you've installed the python-examples package.



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 04:22:28 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:22:28 +0100
Subject: question about Tkinter delete
References: <1320629203.53499.YahooMailNeo@web77904.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j9880f$p8a$1@dough.gmane.org>

Kristen Aw wrote:

> I don't understand why I get this error. I'm trying to delete the existing 
points, then redraw them after this bit of code to 'animate' my simulation.
> 
> def update(self, point1, point2):
>         # Deletes existing points
>         if self.point1:
>             self.w.delete(point1)
>             self.master.update_idletasks()
>         if self.point2:
>             self.w.delete(point2)
>             self.master.update_idletasks()
> #draw new point
> # . . .
> 
> The error message that I get is:
> . . . in update
>     self.w.delete(point1)
>   File "C:\PYTHON26\LIB\LIB-TK\Tkinter.py", line 2181, in delete
>     self.tk.call((self._w, 'delete') + args)
> TclError: invalid command name ".44593760"

Your snippet and your problem description are both a bit short to be sure. 
Is self.w a Tkinter.Canvas widget? It seems the canvas doesn't exist anymore 
when you're trying to delete objects on it. Here's a demonstration:

>>> import Tkinter as tk
>>> root = tk.Tk()
>>> canvas = tk.Canvas(root, height=100, width=100)
>>> canvas.delete("123")
>>> canvas.destroy()
>>> canvas.delete("123")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2184, in delete
    self.tk.call((self._w, 'delete') + args)
_tkinter.TclError: invalid command name ".139675427025264"




From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 06:22:39 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:22:39 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:

> gene heskett wrote:
> > Greetings experts:
> > 
> > I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
> > and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
> > least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
> > 
> > But it also runs instantly on linux.
> > 
> > This line looks suspect to me:
> >  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
> > 
> > And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
> > 
> > How can I fix that best?
> 
> Are you talking about this one?
> 
> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
> .py
 
Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I 
pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.

But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6

> With a current checkout I don't get any tab-related (nor other) errors,
> so I would prefer to run the script as-is. Also, the  README clearly
> states that you have to invoke it with
> 
> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
> 
> and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware"
> into the rootdir variable.

If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and instant.  
Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But it needs to skip 
/dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and /media because they are not 
part of the running system even if disks are mounted there.
 
> If you want to normalize the code to 4-space indents I recomment that
> you use
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/bbc929bc2224/Tools/scripts/reindent.py
 
Got it, where does it normally live? I apparently have a python-2.6.6 
install.

> On Ubuntu (and probably any other Debian-based distro) you'll find a
> version of that in
> 
PCLos is rpm based, lots of mandriva stuff in it.

> /usr/share/doc/python2.6/examples/Tools/scripts/reindent.py
>
Path does not exist.  Ends at /usr/share/doc
from there I have:
gene at coyote doc]$ ls|grep python
gimp-python-2.6.11/
gnome-python-gconf-2.28.1/
gnome-python-gnomeprint-2.32.0/
gnome-python-gtksourceview-2.32.0/
libxml2-python-2.7.8/
python-2.6.6/
python3-3.2.1/
python3-docs-3.2.1/
python-cairo-1.10.0/
python-configobj-4.7.2/
python-decorator-3.3.1/
python-docs-2.6.6/
python-enchant-1.5.3/
python-gobject-2.28.6/
python-gpgme-0.1/
python-gtksourceview-2.10.0/
python-libxml2dom-0.4.7/
python-lxml-2.2.8/
python-markupsafe-0.9.3/
python-notify-0.1.1/
python-paramiko-1.7.6/
python-paste-1.7.4/
python-pkg-resources-0.6c11/
python-psyco-1.6/
python-pybluez-0.18/
python-pycrypto-2.3/
python-pygments-1.3.1/
python-pytools-2011.3/
python-pyxml-0.8.4/
python-rhpl-0.212/
python-sexy-0.1.9/
python-simpletal-4.2/
python-sympy-0.6.7/
python-utmp-0.8/

The python-2.6.6 and 3.2.1 directories only contain a README.mdv

> or similar once you've installed the python-examples package.

On PCLos it doesn't even exist in the repo's.

Good links, thank you.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
"Elvis is my copilot."
-- Cal Keegan


From gabor.farkas at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 07:53:05 2011
From: gabor.farkas at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E1bor_Farkas?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:53:05 +0100
Subject: logging: handle everything EXCEPT certain loggers
Message-ID: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

is there a way to setup log-handlers in a way that they log logs from
every logger, exept certain ones?

basically i want the handler to handle everything, except log-records
that were generated by loggers from "something.*"
can this be done?

i tried to create filters, but the log-record does not have access to
his logger, so i cannot filter based on it's "path".

right now the only idea i have is to setup a filter for the
"something.*" path, have it mark somehow the log-records,
and then create a filter on the global level, that will drop such
log-records. is there a simpler solution?

thanks,
gabor


From andreas.perstinger at gmx.net  Mon Nov  7 08:14:05 2011
From: andreas.perstinger at gmx.net (Andreas Perstinger)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:14:05 +0100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>

On 2011-11-07 12:22, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
>>  Are you talking about this one?
>>
>>  https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
>>  .py
>
> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
>
> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6

Go to the directory where you've downloaded the file and type:

python DuquDriverPatterns.py .

What output do you get?

Bye, Andreas


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 08:30:15 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:30:15 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> <SNIP>
>> Are you talking about this one?
>>
>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
>> .py
>
> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
>
> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
>
To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are 
testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5
from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the 
file, or you got it before today.

The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see how 
you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going to detab 
it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across the page.

> <SNIP>
>> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
>>
>> and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware"
>> into the rootdir variable.
> If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and instant.
> Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But it needs to skip
> /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and /media because they are not
> part of the running system even if disks are mounted there.
>
First, run it on the current directory, and it should list the files in 
that directory:

I ran it in the directory I unzipped it into, so there are two files, 
the README and the source file itself.

$ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   .
Scanning ./README:
No match for pattern #0 on file named: README
No match for pattern #1 on file named: README
No match for pattern #2 on file named: README

etc.

The only way I can see to get NO output is to run it on an empty directory:
$mkdir junk
$ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   junk

As for skipping certain directories, we can deal with that as soon as 
you get proper behavior for any subtree of directories.

Have you tried adding a print ("Hello World " + rootdir) just before the

for root, subFolders, files in os.walk(rootdir):

line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of 
course) ?

-- 

DaveA



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov  7 08:39:17 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:39:17 +0100
Subject: logging: handle everything EXCEPT certain loggers
In-Reply-To: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7DF85.7060909@sequans.com>

G?bor Farkas wrote:
> hi,
>
> is there a way to setup log-handlers in a way that they log logs from
> every logger, exept certain ones?
>
> basically i want the handler to handle everything, except log-records
> that were generated by loggers from "something.*"
> can this be done?
>
> i tried to create filters, but the log-record does not have access to
> his logger, so i cannot filter based on it's "path".
>
> right now the only idea i have is to setup a filter for the
> "something.*" path, have it mark somehow the log-records,
> and then create a filter on the global level, that will drop such
> log-records. is there a simpler solution?
>
> thanks,
> gabor
>   

Are you sure ?
LogRecord objects have a name attribute. You could do something like

return 'IdontWantYou' not in record.name

in your filter.

JM



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From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 09:15:53 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:15:53 +0100
Subject: Python lesson please
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<j986md$gph$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <j98p6j$j2j$1@dough.gmane.org>

gene heskett wrote:

> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> 
>> gene heskett wrote:
>> > Greetings experts:
>> > 
>> > I just dl'd the duqu driver finder script from a link to NSS on /.,
>> > and fixed enough of the tabs in it to make it run error-free.  At
>> > least python isn't having a litter of cows over the indentation now.
>> > 
>> > But it also runs instantly on linux.
>> > 
>> > This line looks suspect to me:
>> >  rootdir = sys.argv[1]
>> > 
>> > And I have a suspicion it is null on a linux box.
>> > 
>> > How can I fix that best?
>> 
>> Are you talking about this one?
>> 
>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatterns
>> .py
>  
> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> 
> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6

Maybe the browser messes up things. Try installing git and then make a 
clone:

$ git clone git://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors

>> With a current checkout I don't get any tab-related (nor other) errors,
>> so I would prefer to run the script as-is. Also, the  README clearly
>> states that you have to invoke it with
>> 
>> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
>> 
>> and the line you are quoting then puts the value "./directoryOfMalware"
>> into the rootdir variable.
> 
> If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and
> instant.

The actual code which comprises only the last 30 lines of the script looks 
like it is written by a newbie. Try replacing the bare except: with 
something noisy along the lines of

except Exception as e:
    print e
    continue

> Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But it needs to
> skip /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and /media because they
> are not part of the running system even if disks are mounted there.

I don't think the script is meant to find malware on a running system. 
Rather you would mount a suspicious harddisk and pass the mountpoint to the 
script. Of course I'm only guessing...

>> or similar once you've installed the python-examples package.
> 
> On PCLos it doesn't even exist in the repo's.

Maybe it's in python's srpm, or in a python-dev.rpm or similar.
If all else fails you can download the source distribution from python.org 
at

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.7/




From gabor.farkas at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 09:18:35 2011
From: gabor.farkas at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E1bor_Farkas?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:18:35 +0100
Subject: logging: handle everything EXCEPT certain loggers
In-Reply-To: <4EB7DF85.7060909@sequans.com>
References: <CAPiPmQkcHuwTa26eLvVUYRcSm-ACfHroJ+a_CGENfcgtu47pZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB7DF85.7060909@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiPmQ=+C2Xn0tMx7pHf=PfvJM0xNQUh4jtBL7X7bfjWRCTqdA@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/7 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>:
> G?bor Farkas wrote:
>>
>> is there a way to setup log-handlers in a way that they log logs from
>> every logger, exept certain ones?
>>
>> i tried to create filters, but the log-record does not have access to
>> his logger, so i cannot filter based on it's "path".
>
> Are you sure ?
> LogRecord objects have a name attribute. You could do something like
>
> return 'IdontWantYou' not in record.name
>
> in your filter.

d'oh .. thanks, i somehow overlooked the name attribute. it's exactly
what i need.

thanks,
gabor


From jaroslav.dobrek at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 09:23:12 2011
From: jaroslav.dobrek at gmail.com (Jaroslav Dobrek)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:23:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: read from file with mixed encodings in Python3
Message-ID: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

in Python3, I often have this problem: I want to do something with
every line of a file. Like Python3, I presuppose that every line is
encoded in utf-8. If this isn't the case, I would like Python3 to do
something specific (like skipping the line, writing the line to
standard error, ...)

Like so:

try:
   ....
except UnicodeDecodeError:
  ...

Yet, there is no place for this construction. If I simply do:

for line in f:
    print(line)

this will result in a UnicodeDecodeError if some line is not utf-8,
but I can't tell Python3 to stop:

This will not work:

for line in f:
    try:
        print(line)
    except UnicodeDecodeError:
        ...

because the UnicodeDecodeError is caused in the "for line in f"-part.

How can I catch such exceptions?

Note that recoding the file before opening it is not an option,
because often files contain many different strings in many different
encodings.

Jaroslav


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 09:33:33 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 09:33:33 -0500
Subject: read from file with mixed encodings in Python3
In-Reply-To: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
References: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB7EC3D.4070809@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 09:23 AM, Jaroslav Dobrek wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in Python3, I often have this problem: I want to do something with
> every line of a file. Like Python3, I presuppose that every line is
> encoded in utf-8. If this isn't the case, I would like Python3 to do
> something specific (like skipping the line, writing the line to
> standard error, ...)
>
> Like so:
>
> try:
>     ....
> except UnicodeDecodeError:
>    ...
>
> Yet, there is no place for this construction. If I simply do:
>
> for line in f:
>      print(line)
>
> this will result in a UnicodeDecodeError if some line is not utf-8,
> but I can't tell Python3 to stop:
>
> This will not work:
>
> for line in f:
>      try:
>          print(line)
>      except UnicodeDecodeError:
>          ...
>
> because the UnicodeDecodeError is caused in the "for line in f"-part.
>
> How can I catch such exceptions?
>
> Note that recoding the file before opening it is not an option,
> because often files contain many different strings in many different
> encodings.
>
> Jaroslav
A file with mixed encodings isn't a text file.  So open it with 'rb' 
mode, and use read() on it.  Find your own line-endings, since a given 
'\n' byte may or may not be a line-ending.

Once you've got something that looks like a line, explicitly decode it 
using utf-8.  Some invalid lines will give an exception and some will 
not.  But perhaps you've got some other gimmick to tell the encoding for 
each line.

-- 

DaveA



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 09:42:47 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:42:47 +0100
Subject: read from file with mixed encodings in Python3
References: <406195f9-d51f-416a-b32c-e9ab07e219c7@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j98qp0$teg$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jaroslav Dobrek wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> in Python3, I often have this problem: I want to do something with
> every line of a file. Like Python3, I presuppose that every line is
> encoded in utf-8. If this isn't the case, I would like Python3 to do
> something specific (like skipping the line, writing the line to
> standard error, ...)
> 
> Like so:
> 
> try:
>    ....
> except UnicodeDecodeError:
>   ...
> 
> Yet, there is no place for this construction. If I simply do:
> 
> for line in f:
>     print(line)
> 
> this will result in a UnicodeDecodeError if some line is not utf-8,
> but I can't tell Python3 to stop:
> 
> This will not work:
> 
> for line in f:
>     try:
>         print(line)
>     except UnicodeDecodeError:
>         ...
> 
> because the UnicodeDecodeError is caused in the "for line in f"-part.
> 
> How can I catch such exceptions?
> 
> Note that recoding the file before opening it is not an option,
> because often files contain many different strings in many different
> encodings.

I don't see those files often, but I think they are all seriously broken. 
There's no way to recover the information from files with unknown mixed 
encodings. However, here's an approach that may sometimes work: 

>>> with open("tmp.txt", "rb") as f:
...     for line in f:
...             try:
...                     line = "UTF-8 " + line.decode("utf-8")
...             except UnicodeDecodeError:
...                     line = "Latin-1 " + line.decode("latin-1")
...             print(line, end="")
...
UTF-8 ???
Latin-1 ???
UTF-8 ???




From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 10:33:03 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:33:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> writes:

> Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as

I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework.  However I've
only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 11:30:16 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:30:16 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 10:38:32 AM Andreas Perstinger did opine:

> On 2011-11-07 12:22, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> >>  Are you talking about this one?
> >>  
> >>  https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatt
> >>  erns .py
> > 
> > Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> > pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> > 
> > But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
> 
> Go to the directory where you've downloaded the file and type:
> 
> python DuquDriverPatterns.py .
> 
> What output do you get?

Well now, I'll be dipped.  It scanned that directory, took it perhaps 15 
minutes, without finding anything.  So I gave it two dots & its munching 
its way through the ../Mail/inbox now.  Why the hell can't it be given a 
valid absolute path without editing it directly into the rootdir = 
statement?

This may be a usable tool, but I think that before it was committed to a 
daily cron script, we would need some history as to where to look for such 
shenanigans as its certainly not fast enough to turn it loose to scan the 
whole system on a daily basis.  This on a quad core 2.1Ghz phenom, 4 gigs 
of dram.

And I just found one of its Achilles heels, it is now stuck on a pipe file 
at /home/gene/.kde4/share/apps/kaffeine/dvbpipe:
prw------- 1 gene gene      0 Sep 24 18:50 dvbpipe.m2t|

And using no cpu.

I was going to ctl+c it but this is where, after several such, that it took 
the machine down yesterday. But it appears as only one process to htop (I 
keep a copy of it running as root here) and that killed it clean, no crash.

So, it needs an exception (or likely several) of file types to stay away 
from, starting with pipes like the above.  But I am not the one to carve 
that code as I have NDI how to go about writing a check stanza for that 
condition in python.

Perhaps winderz does not have 'pipe' files so the authors never got caught 
out on this?  The only windows experience I have is the copy of xp that was 
on the lappy I bought back in 2005 or so to take with me when I am on the 
road (I am a broadcast engineer who gets sent here and there to "put out 
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bypassing windows completely. I built the redhat machine from scratch.
The lappy's xp, used only for warranty testing, got overwritten by mandriva 
2008 when the warranty had expired.

You could call me anti-M$ I think.  :)

> Bye, Andreas

Thanks for listening, Andreas.

Now I wonder how to get a message back to the authors that its broken in at 
least two aspects...

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 11:40:12 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:40:12 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>
Message-ID: <201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 11:30:45 AM Dave Angel did opine:
Back on the list..
> On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> > <SNIP>
> > 
> >> Are you talking about this one?
> >> 
> >> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatte
> >> rns .py
> > 
> > Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
> > pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> > 
> > But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
> 
> To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are
> testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5

[root at coyote Download]# md5sum DuquDriverPatterns.py
c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5  DuquDriverPatterns.py, same as yours.

> from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the
> file, or you got it before today.
> 
> The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see how
> you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going to detab
> it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across the page.

Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high as 33 
leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab indented 2 
additional tabs from the one above it in the original file.  30k was 
perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely reasonable guess.
 
> > <SNIP>
> > 
> >> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
> >> 
> >> and the line you are quoting then puts the value
> >> "./directoryOfMalware" into the rootdir variable.
> > 
> > If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and
> > instant. Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But
> > it needs to skip /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and
> > /media because they are not part of the running system even if disks
> > are mounted there.
> 
> First, run it on the current directory, and it should list the files in
> that directory:
> 
> I ran it in the directory I unzipped it into, so there are two files,
> the README and the source file itself.
> 
> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   .
> Scanning ./README:
> No match for pattern #0 on file named: README
> No match for pattern #1 on file named: README
> No match for pattern #2 on file named: README
> 
> etc.
> 
> The only way I can see to get NO output is to run it on an empty
> directory: $mkdir junk
> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   junk
> 
> As for skipping certain directories, we can deal with that as soon as
> you get proper behavior for any subtree of directories.
> 
> Have you tried adding a print ("Hello World " + rootdir) just before the
> 
> for root, subFolders, files in os.walk(rootdir):
> 
> line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of
> course) ?

No, I did try to print the value of rootdir though, indented the same, and 
got a null printout, not even a line feed.

Thanks Dave.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
The older I grow, the less important the comma becomes.  Let the reader
catch his own breath.
		-- Elizabeth Clarkson Zwart


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Mon Nov  7 11:54:52 2011
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:54:52 -0500
Subject: RSS feed creation?
In-Reply-To: <j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAGGBd_pnKbF93GCW5NdTZENt+u6nFnb4tR00fz0xEtVk6oB1Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<j980vt$e95$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1320684893.8941.9.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 08:22 +0100, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Dan Stromberg, 06.11.2011 21:00:
> > Is there an opensource Python tool for creating RSS feeds, that doesn't
> > require large dependencies?
> > I found feedformatter.py on pypi, but it seems a little old, and its sole
> > automated test gives a traceback.
> > Is there a better starting point?
> > (I'd of course prefer something that'll run on 3.x and 2.x, but will settle
> > for either)
> I'd just go with ElementTree and builder.py.
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-builder.htm

+1
<http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html>

RSS is just XML, just use the XML toolchain.

And use <http://validator.w3.org/feed/#validate_by_input> to check what
you create.



From awilliam at whitemice.org  Mon Nov  7 11:57:10 2011
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:57:10 -0500
Subject: xml-rpc server on wine
In-Reply-To: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1320685031.8941.11.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 05:50 -0700, pacopyc wrote:
> Hi, I have a XML-RPC server python running on VM Windows (on Linux)
> and a XML-RPC client python on Linux. Server and client have different
> IP address. I'd like migrate server on wine. How can communicate
> server and client? IP address is different or is the same?
> Can you help me?

Not really, this doesn't have much of anything to do with Python.  If
you run a network application on wine [assuming that even works] the
application will have the same IP/interface as any other application or
service running on the host.  Wine is not a 'virtualization' solution.




From josephmeiring at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 12:12:13 2011
From: josephmeiring at gmail.com (JoeM)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:12:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
Message-ID: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>

Howdy,

If I have a few lists like

a=[1,2,3,4,5]
b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]

what is the most pythonic method of removing the first element from
all of the lists?

A list comprehension such as [arr[1:] for arr in a,b,c]
gives a single 2d list, which is not what I'm shooting for. Any
suggestions?






From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 12:37:27 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:37:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9950n$n7u$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939 at a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> JoeM <josephmeiring at gmail.com> writes:

> a=[1,2,3,4,5]
> b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
> c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]

> what is the most pythonic method of removing the first element from
> all of the lists?

for arr in [a,b,c]:
  arr.pop(0)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 12:44:15 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:44:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j98tnf$qh0$1 at reader1.panix.com> John Gordon <gordon at panix.com> writes:

> In <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> writes:

> > Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> > to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> > good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as

> I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework.  However I've
> only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.

You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)

The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.

I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data.  (But I'd be surprised
if it had poor performance.)

The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
given URL with a given method call.

Community support is excellent.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From moky.math at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 12:44:59 2011
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:44:59 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>

Le 07/11/2011 18:12, JoeM a ?crit :
> Howdy,
>
> If I have a few lists like
>
> a=[1,2,3,4,5]
> b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
> c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]
>
> what is the most pythonic method of removing the first element from
> all of the lists?

Do you want to remove the first item of each list, or to create new 
lists that contain the same as a,b,c but with one element less ?

Something like what you wrote :
[arr[1:] for arr in a,b,c]
will create *new* lists.


Assuming you don't want new lists, I would do :

a=[1,2,3,4,5]
b=["one", "two", "three", "four", "five"]
c=["cat", "dog", "parrot", "clam", "ferret"]

for x in [a,b,c]:
     x.remove(x[0])

print a
print b
print c

I think that writing
 >>> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
instead of the for loop is cheating ... but it also does the job.

Have a good after noon
Laurent











From josephmeiring at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 13:01:42 2011
From: josephmeiring at gmail.com (JoeM)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
Message-ID: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
for loop if possible. Why do you consider

[x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]

cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.



Cheers


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 13:14:50 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:14:50 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<4EB7DD67.5070606@davea.name>
	<201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <4EB8201A.6080401@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, November 07, 2011 11:30:45 AM Dave Angel did opine:
> Back on the list..
>> On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>>> Are you talking about this one?
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPatte
>>>> rns .py
>>>
>>> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But I
>>> pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
>>>
>>> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
>>
>> To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are
>> testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5
>
> [root at coyote Download]# md5sum DuquDriverPatterns.py
> c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5  DuquDriverPatterns.py, same as yours.
>
>> from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the
>> file, or you got it before today.
>>
>> The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see how
>> you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going to detab
>> it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across the page.
>
> Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high as 33
> leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab indented 2
> additional tabs from the one above it in the original file.  30k was
> perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely reasonable guess.
>
What program are you using to read the file and support that claim? 
Neither emacs nor gedit shows more than one leading tab on any line I 
looked.  And if you set tabs to 4 columns, the file looks quite 
reasonable.  Doing a quick scan I see max of 5 tabs on any single line, 
and 1006 total.


maxtabs = 0
totaltabs = 0
f = open("DuquDriverPatterns.py", "r")
for line in f:

     cline = line.replace("\t", "")
     tabs = len(line) - len(cline)
     if tabs:
         print tabs
         maxtabs = max(maxtabs, tabs)
         totaltabs += tabs

print "max=", maxtabs
print "total=", totaltabs




>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>>> python DuquDriverPatterns.py ./directoryOfMalware
>>>>
>>>> and the line you are quoting then puts the value
>>>> "./directoryOfMalware" into the rootdir variable.
>>>
>>> If only it would...  Using this version, the failure is silent and
>>> instant.

The only way I've been able to make it "silent and instant" was to give 
it the name of an empty directory, or a typo representing no directory 
at all.


>>> Besides, the malware could be anyplace on the system.  But
>>> it needs to skip /dev since it hangs on the midi tree, /mnt and
>>> /media because they are not part of the running system even if disks
>>> are mounted there.
>>
>> First, run it on the current directory, and it should list the files in
>> that directory:
>>
>> I ran it in the directory I unzipped it into, so there are two files,
>> the README and the source file itself.
>>
>> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   .
>> Scanning ./README:
>> No match for pattern #0 on file named: README
>> No match for pattern #1 on file named: README
>> No match for pattern #2 on file named: README
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> The only way I can see to get NO output is to run it on an empty
>> directory: $mkdir junk
>> $ python DuquDriverPatterns.py   junk
>>
>> As for skipping certain directories, we can deal with that as soon as
>> you get proper behavior for any subtree of directories.
>>
>> Have you tried adding a print ("Hello World " + rootdir) just before the
>>
>> for root, subFolders, files in os.walk(rootdir):
>>
>> line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of
>> course) ?
>
> No, I did try to print the value of rootdir though, indented the same, and
> got a null printout, not even a line feed.
>

If you had put the print I suggested, it would at least print the words 
"Hello World".  Since it did not, you probably didn't actually add the 
line where I suggested.

> Thanks Dave.
>
> Cheers, Gene

In another message you said it doesn't work on absolute file paths.  But 
it does.  You can replace any relative directory name with the absolute 
version, and it won't change the behavior.  I suspect you were caught up 
by a typo for the absolute path string.


-- 

DaveA


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov  7 13:22:00 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 18:22:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j997k8$rib$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3 at o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com> JoeM <josephmeiring at gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider

> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]

> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

I wouldn't call it cheating, but that solution does a fair bit of
unneccessary work (creating a list comprehension that is never used.)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  7 13:33:01 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:33:01 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9988m$cfr$1@dough.gmane.org>

JoeM wrote:

> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
> 
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
> 
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

I think it's a misconception that you are avoiding the for-loop. You move it 
into [...] and declare it more elegant, but in reality you are creating a 
throwaway list of None-s. You are adding cruft to your code. 

That is not only superfluous, but also misleading. A simple for-loop like

for x in a, b, c:
    del x[0]

on the other hand makes your intention crystal-clear.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov  7 13:51:31 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:51:31 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>

JoeM wrote:
> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>   
This is a one liner, but since you asked something *pythonic*, John's 
solution is the best imo:

for arr in [a,b,c]:
  arr.pop(0)

(Peter's "del" solution is quite close, but I find the 'del' statement 
tricky in python and will mislead many python newcomers)

JM


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Mon Nov  7 14:43:05 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:43:05 -0700
Subject: memory management
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

Hi,

Can anyone provide links or basic info on memory management, variable dereferencing, or the like? I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).  This makes it difficult to figure out if the allocated memory or heap space for the DOS/shell session have overflown, or why it is crashing.

Juan Declet-Barreto [cid:image001.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]
GIS Specialist, Information Technology Dept.
City of Mesa
Office: 480.644.4751
juan.declet-barreto at mesaaz.gov<mailto:juan.declet-barreto at mesaaz.gov>

[cid:image002.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]

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From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 15:00:49 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:00:49 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <4EB8201A.6080401@davea.name>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111071140.12374.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<4EB8201A.6080401@davea.name>
Message-ID: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 02:43:11 PM Dave Angel did opine:

> On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, November 07, 2011 11:30:45 AM Dave Angel did opine:
> > Back on the list..
> > 
> >> On 11/07/2011 06:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >>> On Monday, November 07, 2011 05:35:15 AM Peter Otten did opine:
> >>> <SNIP>
> >>> 
> >>>> Are you talking about this one?
> >>>> 
> >>>> https://github.com/halsten/Duqu-detectors/blob/master/DuquDriverPat
> >>>> te rns .py
> >>> 
> >>> Yes.  My save as renamed it, still has about 30k of tabs in it.  But
> >>> I pulled it again, using the 'raw' link, saved it, no extra tabs.
> >>> 
> >>> But it still doesn't work for linux.  My python is 2.6.6
> >> 
> >> To start with, what's the md5 of the file you downloaded and are
> >> testing?  I get c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5
> > 
> > [root at coyote Download]# md5sum DuquDriverPatterns.py
> > c4592a187f8f7880d3b685537e3bf9a5  DuquDriverPatterns.py, same as
> > yours.
> > 
> >> from md5sum.  If you get something different, one of us changed the
> >> file, or you got it before today.
> >> 
> >> The whole tab issue is a red-herring in this case.  But I don't see
> >> how you can find 30k tabs in a thousand lines.  And if I were going
> >> to detab it, I'd pick 4 spaces, so the code doesn't stretch across
> >> the page.
> > 
> > Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high
> > as 33 leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab
> > indented 2 additional tabs from the one above it in the original
> > file.  30k was perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely
> > reasonable guess.
> 
> What program are you using to read the file and support that claim?

vim.  But remember, this first one started out as a copy/paste from the 
firefox-7.0.1 screen.

> Neither emacs nor gedit shows more than one leading tab on any line I
> looked.  And if you set tabs to 4 columns, the file looks quite
> reasonable.  Doing a quick scan I see max of 5 tabs on any single line,
> and 1006 total.

I have no tabs left in the operative code, the python interpreter was 
having a cow if even one was in that last 30-35 lines of code.
> 
> 
> maxtabs = 0
> totaltabs = 0
> f = open("DuquDriverPatterns.py", "r")
> for line in f:
> 
>      cline = line.replace("\t", "")
>      tabs = len(line) - len(cline)
>      if tabs:
>          print tabs
>          maxtabs = max(maxtabs, tabs)
>          totaltabs += tabs
> 
> print "max=", maxtabs
> print "total=", totaltabs
> 
> >>> <SNIP>
> The only way I've been able to make it "silent and instant" was to give
> it the name of an empty directory, or a typo representing no directory
> at all.
> 
[...]
> >> line ?  Or putting a   print len(files)  just after it (indented, of
> >> course) ?
> > 
> > No, I did try to print the value of rootdir though, indented the same,
> > and got a null printout, not even a line feed.

Indented the same as the rootdir statement itself, which in python would 
seem to make it immediately sequential to the roodir = statement.
 
> If you had put the print I suggested, it would at least print the words
> "Hello World".  Since it did not, you probably didn't actually add the
> line where I suggested.
> 
> > Thanks Dave.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> In another message you said it doesn't work on absolute file paths.  But
> it does.  You can replace any relative directory name with the absolute
> version, and it won't change the behavior.  I suspect you were caught up
> by a typo for the absolute path string.

I am gene, running as gene, what could be wrong with giving it /home/gene 
as the argument?

I have another dir in /home/amanda, that I build the alpha and beta amanda 
stuff in.  Let me try that.  And again, this works but I forgot about the 
.ccache directory, so it will take a while to finish.

Now, as a python lesson to me, I will do a blink compare between the 2 
files this evening & see what I munged.  ATM, I am working on a gunstock 
for as long as my feet and back can stand the standing, so sitting here is 
a 'break' from that.  Yeah, I occasionally call myself a JOAT. ;-)

Thanks Dave.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake
when you make it again.
		-- Franklin P. Jones


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 15:06:25 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:06:25 -0500
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB83A41.9050802@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 01:01 PM, JoeM wrote:
> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.
>
>
>
> Cheers
Are you considering the possibility that two of these names might 
reference the same list?

a = [42, 44, 6, 19, 48]
b = a
c = b


for x in [a,b,c]:
     x.remove(x[0])

now a will have  [19,48] as its content.



-- 

DaveA



From davea at dejaviewphoto.com  Mon Nov  7 15:19:53 2011
From: davea at dejaviewphoto.com (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:19:53 -0500
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>


On 11/07/2011 02:43 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone provide links or basic info on memory management, variable dereferencing, or the like? I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).  This makes it difficult to figure out if the allocated memory or heap space for the DOS/shell session have overflown, or why it is crashing.
>
> Juan Declet-Barreto [ciId:image001.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]
I don't have any reference to point you to, but CPython's memory 
management is really pretty simple.  However, it's important to tell us 
the build of Python, as there are several, with very different memory 
rules.  For example Jython, which is Python running in a Java VM, lets 
the java garbage collector handle things, and it's entirely different.

Likewise, the OS may be relevant.  You're using Windows-kind of 
terminology, but that doesn't prove you're on Windows, nor does it say 
what version.

Assuming 32 bit CPython 2.7 on XP, the principles are simple.  When an 
object is no longer accessible, it gets garbage collected*.   So if you 
build a list inside a function, and the only reference is from a 
function's local var, then the whole list will be freed when the 
function exits.  The mistakes many people make are unnecessarily using 
globals, and using lists when iterables would work just as well.

The tool on XP to tell how much memory is in use is the task manager.  
As you point out, its hard to catch a short-running app in the act.  So 
you want to add a counter to your code (global), and see how high it 
gets when it crashes.  Then put a test in your code for the timer value, 
and do an "input" somewhat earlier.

At that point, see how much memory the program is actually using.

Now, when an object is freed, a new one of the same size is likely to 
immediately re-use the space.  But if they're all different sizes, it's 
somewhat statistical.  You might get fragmentation, for example.  When 
Python's pool is full, it asks the OS for more (perhaps using swap 
space), but I don't think it ever gives it back.  So your memory use is 
a kind of ceiling case.  That's why it's problematic to build a huge 
data structure, and then walk through it, then delete it.  The script 
will probably continue to show the peak memory use, indefinitely.

* (technically, this is ref counted.  When the ref reaches zero the 
object is freed.  Real gc is more lazy scanning)




From jfine at pytex.org  Mon Nov  7 15:21:49 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:21:49 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
	<m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 20:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:

> Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
> corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
> The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
> (i.e. during install).

Thank you for your interest, Jakub, and also for this information.  With 
TeX there's a difficult which Perl, I think, does not have.  With TeX we 
process documents, which may demand specific versions of packages. 
LaTeX users are concerned that move on to a later version will cause 
documents to break.

> Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
> repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
> software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
> kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

I'm impressed by how well git manages it.  It took about 15 minutes to 
build the 4GB tree, and it was disk speed rather than CPU which was the 
bottleneck.

>> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
>> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
>> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
>> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
>> machine".
>
> This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
> consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
> submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
> whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)
>
> This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.

We may be at cross purposes.  My first task is get the DVD tree into 
git, performing necessary transformations such as expanding zip files 
along the way.  Breaking the content into submodules can, I believe, be 
done afterwards.

With DVDs from several years it could take several hours to load 
everything into git.  For myself, I'd like to do that once, more or less 
as a batch process, and then move on to the more interesting topics. 
Getting the DVD contents into git is already a significant piece of work.

Once done, I can them move on to what you're interested in, which is 
organising the material.  And I hope that others in the TeX community 
will get involved with that, because I'm not building this repository 
just for myself.

> But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
> forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
> have best user interface.
>
>> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
>> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
>> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.
>
> ???

A quick way to bring your TeX distribution up to date is to do a delta 
with a later distribution, and download the difference.  That's what git 
does, and it does it well.  So I'm keen to convert a TeX DVD into a git 
repository, and then differences can be downloaded.

>> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
>> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
>> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.
>
> No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
> _clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.
>
> Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
> different.

 From what I know, I'm confident that I can achieve what I want using 
git.  I'm also confident that my approach is not closing off any 
possible approached.  But if I'm wrong you'll be able to say: I told you so.

> Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

Actually, any number of parents, including none.  What metadata do I 
have to provide?  At this time nothing, I think, beyond that provided by 
the name of a reference (to the root of a tree).

> I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
> ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
>
>> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
>> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
>> no commit.
>
> That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
> tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

Because git is a distributed version control system, anyone who wants to 
can create such a directed acyclic graph of commits.  And if it's useful 
I'll gladly add it to my copy of the repository.

best regards


Jonathan



From jfine at pytex.org  Mon Nov  7 15:21:49 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:21:49 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
	<m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>

On 06/11/11 20:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:

> Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
> corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
> The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
> (i.e. during install).

Thank you for your interest, Jakub, and also for this information.  With 
TeX there's a difficult which Perl, I think, does not have.  With TeX we 
process documents, which may demand specific versions of packages. 
LaTeX users are concerned that move on to a later version will cause 
documents to break.

> Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
> repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
> software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
> kernel), not 4GB+ trees.

I'm impressed by how well git manages it.  It took about 15 minutes to 
build the 4GB tree, and it was disk speed rather than CPU which was the 
bottleneck.

>> Once you've done that, it is then possible and sensible to select
>> suitable interesting subsets, such as releases of a particular
>> package. Users could even define their own subsets, such as "all
>> resources needed to process this file, exactly as it processes on my
>> machine".
>
> This could be handled using submodules, by having superrepository that
> consist solely of references to other repositories by the way of
> submodules... plus perhaps some administrativa files (like README for
> whole CTAN, or search tool, or DVD install, etc.)
>
> This could be the used to get for example contents of DVD from 2010.

We may be at cross purposes.  My first task is get the DVD tree into 
git, performing necessary transformations such as expanding zip files 
along the way.  Breaking the content into submodules can, I believe, be 
done afterwards.

With DVDs from several years it could take several hours to load 
everything into git.  For myself, I'd like to do that once, more or less 
as a batch process, and then move on to the more interesting topics. 
Getting the DVD contents into git is already a significant piece of work.

Once done, I can them move on to what you're interested in, which is 
organising the material.  And I hope that others in the TeX community 
will get involved with that, because I'm not building this repository 
just for myself.

> But even though submodules (c.f. Subversion svn:external, Mecurial
> forest extension, etc.) are in Git for quite a bit of time, it doesn't
> have best user interface.
>
>> In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
>> git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
>> to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.
>
> ???

A quick way to bring your TeX distribution up to date is to do a delta 
with a later distribution, and download the difference.  That's what git 
does, and it does it well.  So I'm keen to convert a TeX DVD into a git 
repository, and then differences can be downloaded.

>> Finally, I'd rather be working within git that modified copy of the
>> ISO when doing the subsetting.  I'm pretty sure that I can manage to
>> pull the small repositories from the big git-CTAN repository.
>
> No you cannot.  It is all or nothing; there is no support for partial
> _clone_ (yet), and it looks like it is a hard problem.
>
> Nb. there is support for partial _checkout_, but this is something
> different.

 From what I know, I'm confident that I can achieve what I want using 
git.  I'm also confident that my approach is not closing off any 
possible approached.  But if I'm wrong you'll be able to say: I told you so.

> Commit = tree + parent + metadata.

Actually, any number of parents, including none.  What metadata do I 
have to provide?  At this time nothing, I think, beyond that provided by 
the name of a reference (to the root of a tree).

> I think you would very much want to have linear sequence of trees,
> ordered via DAG of commits.  "Naked" trees are rather bad idea, I think.
>
>> As I recall the first 'commit' to the git repository for the Linux
>> kernel was just a tree, with a reference to that tree as a tag.  But
>> no commit.
>
> That was a bad accident that there is a tag that points directly to a
> tree of _initial import_, not something to copy.

Because git is a distributed version control system, anyone who wants to 
can create such a directed acyclic graph of commits.  And if it's useful 
I'll gladly add it to my copy of the repository.

best regards


Jonathan



From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Mon Nov  7 15:33:09 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:33:09 -0700
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at dejaviewphoto.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:20 PM
To: Juan Declet-Barreto
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: memory management


On 11/07/2011 02:43 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone provide links or basic info on memory management, variable dereferencing, or the like? I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).  This makes it difficult to figure out if the allocated memory or heap space for the DOS/shell session have overflown, or why it is crashing.
>
> Juan Declet-Barreto [ciId:image001.png at 01CC9D4A.CB6B9D70]
I don't have any reference to point you to, but CPython's memory management is really pretty simple.  However, it's important to tell us the build of Python, as there are several, with very different memory rules.  For example Jython, which is Python running in a Java VM, lets the java garbage collector handle things, and it's entirely different.

Likewise, the OS may be relevant.  You're using Windows-kind of terminology, but that doesn't prove you're on Windows, nor does it say what version.

Assuming 32 bit CPython 2.7 on XP, the principles are simple.  When an 
object is no longer accessible, it gets garbage collected*.   So if you 
build a list inside a function, and the only reference is from a function's local var, then the whole list will be freed when the function exits.  The mistakes many people make are unnecessarily using globals, and using lists when iterables would work just as well.

The tool on XP to tell how much memory is in use is the task manager.  
As you point out, its hard to catch a short-running app in the act.  So you want to add a counter to your code (global), and see how high it gets when it crashes.  Then put a test in your code for the timer value, and do an "input" somewhat earlier.

At that point, see how much memory the program is actually using.

Now, when an object is freed, a new one of the same size is likely to immediately re-use the space.  But if they're all different sizes, it's somewhat statistical.  You might get fragmentation, for example.  When Python's pool is full, it asks the OS for more (perhaps using swap space), but I don't think it ever gives it back.  So your memory use is a kind of ceiling case.  That's why it's problematic to build a huge data structure, and then walk through it, then delete it.  The script will probably continue to show the peak memory use, indefinitely.

* (technically, this is ref counted.  When the ref reaches zero the object is freed.  Real gc is more lazy scanning)




From stefan-usenet at bytereef.org  Mon Nov  7 15:47:16 2011
From: stefan-usenet at bytereef.org (Stefan Krah)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:47:16 +0100
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <20111107204716.GA14201@sleipnir.bytereef.org>

Juan Declet-Barreto <Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov> wrote:
> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which
> ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the
> arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information
> systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently
> isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the
> arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment
> crash is occurring.

It might be a good idea to check if the problem also occurs with Python 2.7
since Python 2.5 is no longer maintained.


Stefan Krah




From d at davea.name  Mon Nov  7 15:50:19 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:50:19 -0500
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <4EB8448B.7030709@davea.name>

On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
You top-posted.  In this mailing list, one should type new information 
after the quoted information, not before.

Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order.  On the assumption that it may 
be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out.  Instead of 
walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then 
working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get 
it.  Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call 
your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory 
at the same time.


Generator:

def  filelist(top, criteria):
       for  a, b, c in os.walk():
              for fiile in files:
                    apply some criteria
                    yield file


Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way

for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
        dosomething...



-- 

DaveA



From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Mon Nov  7 16:00:53 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:00:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: all() is slow?
Message-ID: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>

    	I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):

>>> import random, timeit
>>> def myAll(x):
...     for a in x:
...         if a not in (True, False):
...             return False
...     return True
>>> x = [random.choice([True, False]) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x', 
number=10)
0: 9.7685158309226452
>>> timeit.timeit('all(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__ 
import x', number=10)
1: 12.348196768024984
>>> x = [random.randint(0,100) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
>>> def myAll(x):
...     for a in x:
...         if not a <= 100:
...             return False
...     return True
>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x', 
number=10)
4: 2.8248207523582209
>>> timeit.timeit('all(a <= 100 for a in x)', 'gc.enable(); from 
__main__ import x', number=10)
5: 4.6433557896324942

    	What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's 
slower than writing a function to do the check myself?

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Nov  7 16:34:08 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: python-based downloader (youtube-dl) missing critical feature ...
In-Reply-To: <4EB3E93E.50500@sequans.com>
References: <1320407282.243739@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
	<4eb3db48$0$29968$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4EB3E93E.50500@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <0604E20B5F6F2F4784C9C8C71C5DD4DD2FDF6DD8E0@EMARC112VS01.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>Maybe Lbrtchx is one of the Sheldon Cooper's nicknames :o)
>
>JM
>
>PS : I have the feeling that my nerdy reference will fall flat...

Not completely ;)

Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Nov  7 16:39:57 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:39:57 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQCHuh3e-PukF-KLciD=w82KGFCPxYg8NdPnJ-XEv0weQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:00 PM, OKB (not okblacke)
<brenNOSPAMbarn at nobrenspambarn.net> wrote:
<snip>
> ? ? ? ?What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's
> slower than writing a function to do the check myself?

Regardless of whether it's slower (which I expect someone will be
along to debunk or explain shortly), do you really want to have to
write an additional boilerplate function or block of code /every
single time/ you want to do such a check? The runtime speed difference
is unlikely to be worth your time as a developer in many cases. And by
Murphy's Law, you *will* make errors writing these repetitive code
blocks (e.g. forget to negate the conditional), whereas reusing all()
makes that much less likely.

The trade-off is run-time speed for developer
productivity/convenience; Python tends to lean towards the latter (to
varying degrees).

Cheers,
Chris


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:40:56 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 08:40:56 +1100
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqJj6dCxKGiB6c447_TeVk_hsGAGLRaj=hOTpUcV_+KnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Juan Declet-Barreto
<Juan.Declet-Barreto at mesaaz.gov> wrote:
>
> I have a script that traverses a file structure using os.walk and adds directory names to a list. It works for a small number of directories, but when I set it loose on a directory with thousands of dirs/subdirs, it crashes the DOS session and also the Python shell (when I run it from the shell).

This seems a little unusual - it crashes more than its own process? If
you use Start... Run and type in "cmd" (or use the "Command Prompt"
icon, whereever that is), and invoke Python from there, it crashes cmd
as well as Python? If so, I'd be suspecting either some really weird
bug in the Python interpreter (try upgrading to 2.7), or a hardware
fault in your computer (try running MemTest or running it on a
different computer).

ChrisA


From codewarrior0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:46:25 2011
From: codewarrior0 at gmail.com (david vierra)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:46:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 7, 11:00?am, "OKB (not okblacke)"
<brenNOSPAMb... at NObrenSPAMbarn.net> wrote:

> ? ? ? ? What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's
> slower than writing a function to do the check myself?
>

But, you didn't write an all() function.  You wrote a more specialized
allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
builtin all():

>>> def myAll(x):
...     for a in x:
...         if not a: return False
...     return True
...
>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x', number=10)
14.510986388627998
>>> timeit.timeit('all(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__ import x', number=10)
12.209779342432576


From jnareb at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:50:23 2011
From: jnareb at gmail.com (Jakub Narebski)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:50:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>
	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org> <m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <m3ipmv38o2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to comp.text.tex as well.

Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> writes:
> On 06/11/11 20:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> 
> > Note that for gitPAN each "distribution" (usually but not always
> > corresponding to single Perl module) is in separate repository.
> > The dependencies are handled by CPAN / CPANPLUS / cpanm client
> > (i.e. during install).
> 
> Thank you for your interest, Jakub, and also for this information.
> With TeX there's a difficult which Perl, I think, does not have.  With
> TeX we process documents, which may demand specific versions of
> packages. LaTeX users are concerned that move on to a later version
> will cause documents to break.

How you can demand specific version of package?

In the "\usepackage[options]{packages}[version]" LaTeX command the
<version> argument specifies _minimal_ (oldest) version.  The same
is true for Perl "use Module VERSION LIST".
 
Nevertheless while with "use Module VERSION" / "use Module VERSION LIST"
you can request minimal version of Perl Module, the META build-time spec 
can include requirement of exact version of required package:

http://p3rl.org/CPAN::Meta::Spec

  Version Ranges
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Some fields (prereq, optional_features) indicate the particular
  version(s) of some other module that may be required as a
  prerequisite. This section details the Version Range type used to
  provide this information.

  The simplest format for a Version Range is just the version number
  itself, e.g. 2.4. This means that *at least* version 2.4 must be
  present. To indicate that *any* version of a prerequisite is okay,
  even if the prerequisite doesn't define a version at all, use the
  version 0.

  Alternatively, a version range *may* use the operators < (less than),
  <= (less than or equal), > (greater than), >= (greater than or
  equal), == (equal), and != (not equal). For example, the
  specification < 2.0 means that any version of the prerequisite less
  than 2.0 is suitable.

  For more complicated situations, version specifications *may* be
  AND-ed together using commas. The specification >= 1.2, != 1.5, <
  2.0 indicates a version that must be *at least* 1.2, *less than* 2.0,
  and *not equal to* 1.5.

> > Putting all DVD (is it "TeX Live" DVD by the way?) into single
> > repository would put quite a bit of stress to git; it was created for
> > software development (although admittedly of large project like Linux
> > kernel), not 4GB+ trees.
> 
> I'm impressed by how well git manages it.  It took about 15 minutes to
> build the 4GB tree, and it was disk speed rather than CPU which was
> the bottleneck.

I still think that using modified contrib/fast-import/import-zips.py
(or import-tars.perl, or import-directories.perl) would be a better
solution here...
 
[...]
> We may be at cross purposes.  My first task is get the DVD tree into
> git, performing necessary transformations such as expanding zip files
> along the way.  Breaking the content into submodules can, I believe,
> be done afterwards.

'reposurgeon' might help there... or might not.  Same with git-subtree
tool.

But now I understand that you are just building tree objects, and
creating references to them (with implicit ordering given by names,
I guess).  This is to be a start of further work, isn't it?

> With DVDs from several years it could take several hours to load
> everything into git.  For myself, I'd like to do that once, more or
> less as a batch process, and then move on to the more interesting
> topics. Getting the DVD contents into git is already a significant
> piece of work.
> 
> Once done, I can them move on to what you're interested in, which is
> organising the material.  And I hope that others in the TeX community
> will get involved with that, because I'm not building this repository
> just for myself.

[...]

> > > In addition, many TeX users have a TeX DVD.  If they import it into a
> > > git repository (using for example my script) then the update from 2011
> > > to 2012 would require much less bandwidth.
> >
> > ???
> 
> A quick way to bring your TeX distribution up to date is to do a delta
> with a later distribution, and download the difference.  That's what
> git does, and it does it well.  So I'm keen to convert a TeX DVD into
> a git repository, and then differences can be downloaded.

Here perhaps you should take a look at git-based 'bup' backup system.

Anyway I am not sure if for git to be able to generate deltas well you
have to have DAG of commits, so Git can notice what you have and what
you have not.  Trees might be not enough here. (!)
 
> > Commit = tree + parent + metadata.
> 
> Actually, any number of parents, including none.  What metadata do I
> have to provide?  At this time nothing, I think, beyond that provided
> by the name of a reference (to the root of a tree).

Metadata = commit message (here you can e.g. put the official name of
DVD), author and committer info (name, email, date and time, timezone;
date and time you can get from mtime / creation time of DVD). 

[cut]
 
-- 
Jakub Nar?bski


From jfine at pytex.org  Mon Nov  7 17:03:09 2011
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:03:09 +0000
Subject: A Python script to put CTAN into git (from DVDs)
In-Reply-To: <m3ipmv38o2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <4EB6A522.3020909@pytex.org>	<mailman.2464.1320597747.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4EB6CFBB.2090901@pytex.org>
	<m3zkg92dxq.fsf@localhost.localdomain>	<4EB83DDD.1080103@pytex.org>
	<m3ipmv38o2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EB8559D.8080704@pytex.org>

On 07/11/11 21:49, Jakub Narebski wrote:

[snip]

> But now I understand that you are just building tree objects, and
> creating references to them (with implicit ordering given by names,
> I guess).  This is to be a start of further work, isn't it?

Yes, that's exactly the point, and my apologies if I was not clear enough.

I'll post again when I've finished the script and performed placed 
several years of DVD into git.  Then the discussion will be more 
concrete - we have this tree, how do we make it more useful.

Thank you for your contributions, particularly telling me about gitpan.

-- 
Jonathan


From garyfallidis at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:06:40 2011
From: garyfallidis at gmail.com (Eleftherios Garyfallidis)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:06:40 +0100
Subject: ctypes accessing functions with double pointers
Message-ID: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Is it possible using ctypes to call C functions from a shared object
containing double pointers e.g. int foo(float **i) and if yes how?

Best wishes,
Eleftherios
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:06:56 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:06:56 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:46 AM, david vierra <codewarrior0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> But, you didn't write an all() function. ?You wrote a more specialized
> allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
> builtin all():

So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:

def my_all(code,lst):
    exec("""def tmp_all(x):
        for a in x:
            if not ("""+code+"""): return False
        return True
""")
    return tmp_all(lst)
timeit.timeit('my_all("a in (True, False)",x)','from __main__ import
my_all,x',number=10)

Bad code imho, but it _is_ faster than both the original and the builtin.

ChrisA


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Nov  7 17:29:46 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:29:46 -0800
Subject: ctypes accessing functions with double pointers
In-Reply-To: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRmHBVq4SSV4nMJhTpyw7SXteSgoRpMPxqLRG-BfmJ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Eleftherios Garyfallidis
<garyfallidis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is it possible using ctypes to call C functions from a shared object
> containing double pointers e.g. int foo(float **i) and if yes how?

(Untested conjecture:)

import ctypes
# ...create ctypes_wrapped_foo...
the_float = ctypes.c_float(42.1)
float_ptr = ctypes.byref(the_float)
i = ctypes.byref(float_ptr)
result_integer = ctypes_wrapped_foo(i)

Cheers,
Chris


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:51:21 2011
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:51:21 +0000
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWVOL1BTAPCUg-fCKLr-TyCOE=8f8z=sHvR2Q7zfeJXPg@mail.gmail.com>

See these all vs myAll tests:

%~> python all_test
0.5427970886230469
1.1579840183258057

3.3052260875701904
3.4992029666900635

3.303942918777466
1.7343430519104004

3.18320894241333
1.6191949844360352

In the first pair and the second pair, the pairs receive the same input.
The builtin all outperforms the user-defined.
In the second pair, the builtin receives a generator whereas the function
just runs. A generator has to be called once every iteration, and this
significantly slows it.

The main use of "all" is ease, though, as mentioned before.
The second is speed when testing lists/generators that don't need to be
wrapped.

Note:
%~> pypy all_test
0.0657250881195
0.0579369068146

0.751952171326
0.657609939575

0.748466968536
0.0586581230164

0.801791906357
0.0550608634949

If speed is your concern, there are simple solutions.
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:06:53 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:06:53 -0500
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <j997k8$rib$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<j997k8$rib$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j99rqv$qap$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 1:22 PM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3 at o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>  JoeM<josephmeiring at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
>> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
>> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
>> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

It looks like incomplete code with 'somelists = ' or other context 
omitted. It saves no keypresses '[',...,SPACE,...,']' versus 
...,':',ENTER,TAB,... . (TAB with a decent Python aware editor.)

> I wouldn't call it cheating, but that solution does a fair bit of
> unneccessary work (creating a list comprehension that is never used.)

The comprehension ( the code) is used, but the result is not. If the 
source iterator has a large number of items rather than 3, the throwaway 
list could become an issue. Example.

fin = open('source.txt')
fout= open('dest.txt, 'w')
for line in fin:
   fout.write(line.strip())
# versus
[fout.write(line.strip()) for line in fin]

If source.txt has 100 millions lines, the 'clever' code looks less 
clever ;=). Comprehensions are intended for creating collections (that 
one actually wants) and for normal Python coding are best used for that.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:17:09 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:17:09 -0500
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <20111107204716.GA14201@sleipnir.bytereef.org>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<20111107204716.GA14201@sleipnir.bytereef.org>
Message-ID: <j99se7$tss$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 3:47 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> Juan Declet-Barreto<Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov>  wrote:
>> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which
>> ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the
>> arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information
>> systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently
>> isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the
>> arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment
>> crash is occurring.

What *exactly* do you mean by "crash"?

> It might be a good idea to check if the problem also occurs with Python 2.7
> since Python 2.5 is no longer maintained.

And 2.7 has hundreds of more recent bug fixes. Just one could make a 
difference.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:23:50 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:23:50 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111070622.39473.gheskett@wdtv.com> <4EB7D99D.5010604@gmx.net>
	<201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <j99sqn$tss$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 11:30 AM, gene heskett wrote:

> Perhaps winderz does not have 'pipe' files so the authors never got caught
> out on this?

Last I know, Windows not only had no pipe files but also no real 
in-memory pipes. Maybe one or both of those has changed.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov  7 19:36:46 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:36:46 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <j99sqn$tss$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <201111061314.43744.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<201111071130.16751.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<j99sqn$tss$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <201111071936.46138.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 07, 2011 07:34:05 PM Terry Reedy did opine:

> On 11/7/2011 11:30 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Perhaps winderz does not have 'pipe' files so the authors never got
> > caught out on this?
> 
> Last I know, Windows not only had no pipe files but also no real
> in-memory pipes. Maybe one or both of those has changed.

Sheesh..  How the heck do you get anything done on winderz then. :(

Answer not needed as they regularly reinvent the wheel because everything 
has to be self contained, poorly IMO.  Most of their wheels ride a bit 
rough. ;)

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
I believe that professional wrestling is clean and everything else in
the world is fixed.
		-- Frank Deford, sports writer


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 21:21:52 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 18:21:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 7, 12:44?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <j98tnf$qh... at reader1.panix.com> John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> writes:
>
> > In <415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b450... at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> writes:
> > > Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> > > to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> > > good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
> > I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework. ?However I've
> > only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.
>
> You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)
>
> The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
> native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.
>
> I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
> project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data. ?(But I'd be surprised
> if it had poor performance.)
>
> The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
> given URL with a given method call.
>
> Community support is excellent.
>
> --
> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

I started the battle today. The "new guy" was trying to sell me on
CodeIgnitor. I haven't looked at it, but it is PHP, so I really want
to avoid it. The good thing is that all of his "friends" have been
telling him to get into Python. I have been trying to convince him
that PHP isn't cut out for background services and is mostly a front-
end language. Python is much more geared towards hardcore data
processing. Why write the system in two languages?

I have been spending a lot of time looking at the Pyramid project: the
next generation of the Pylons project. It looks powerful, but it seems
to be a lot more complex than Django.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 23:17:14 2011
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:17:14 +1100
Subject: How to mix-in __getattr__ after the fact?
In-Reply-To: <8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4630c4d0-86bc-4295-8bbb-6f58415191c8@v15g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAAF264.1050307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2298.1319855210.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9aagb$b2v$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 10/31/2011 11:01 PM, dhyams wrote:
>
> Thanks for all of the responses; everyone was exactly correct, and
> obeying the binding rules for special methods did work in the example
> above.  Unfortunately, I only have read-only access to the class
> itself (it was a VTK class wrapped with SWIG), so I had to find
> another way to accomplish what I was after.
>

As a big huge hack, you can always write a wrapper class:

class Wrapper(object):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         self.__object = MySWIGClass(*args, **kwargs)
     def __getattr__(self, attr):
         try:
             return getattr(self.__object, attr)
         except AttributeError:
             ...



From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Mon Nov  7 23:32:46 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:32:46 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>

I got trouble about easy_install command.

My package:

  README.rst
  setup.py
  foobar/
  foobar/__init__.py
  foobar/data/
  foobar/data/template.py

In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
template data file (= not a python module file).
(notice that 'foobar/data/__init__.py' doesn't exist.)

In this case, 'foobar/data/template.py' file is NOT installed
when trying 'easy_install foobar'.
This is trouble what I got.

I found that:

* foobar.tar.gz created by 'easy_install sdist' contains
  'foobar/data/template.py' correctly.
* foobar.egg created by 'easy_install bdist' doesn't contain
  'foobar/data/template.py' file.

Question: how can I enforce easy_install command to
install 'foobar/data/template.py' (or non-package *.py file)?

--
regars,
makoto kuwata


From cs at zip.com.au  Mon Nov  7 23:59:00 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:59:00 +1100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>

On 07Nov2011 15:00, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
| On Monday, November 07, 2011 02:43:11 PM Dave Angel did opine:
| > On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
| > > Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as high
| > > as 33 leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was tab
| > > indented 2 additional tabs from the one above it in the original
| > > file.  30k was perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems an entirely
| > > reasonable guess.
| > 
| > What program are you using to read the file and support that claim?
| 
| vim.  But remember, this first one started out as a copy/paste from the 
| firefox-7.0.1 screen.

I don't suppose you had autoident turned on?

I hate using cu/paste to fetch data; _always_ use a "download" link, or
use the browser's "save page as" facility.

But still, if your MD5 checksums now match...

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Footnotes that extend to a second page are an abject failure of design.
        - Bringhurst, _The Elements of Typographic Style_


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:09:56 2011
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:09:56 +1100
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/08/2011 01:21 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:44 pm, John Gordon<gor... at panix.com>  wrote:
>> In<j98tnf$qh... at reader1.panix.com>  John Gordon<gor... at panix.com>  writes:
>>
>>> In<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b450... at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>  Travis Parks<jehugalea... at gmail.com>  writes:
>>>> Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
>>>> to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
>>>> good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
>>> I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework.  However I've
>>> only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.
>>
>> You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)
>>
>> The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
>> native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.
>>
>> I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
>> project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data.  (But I'd be surprised
>> if it had poor performance.)
>>
>> The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
>> given URL with a given method call.
>>
>> Community support is excellent.
>>
>> --
>> John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
>> gor... at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
>>                                  -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
>
> I started the battle today. The "new guy" was trying to sell me on
> CodeIgnitor. I haven't looked at it, but it is PHP, so I really want
> to avoid it. The good thing is that all of his "friends" have been
> telling him to get into Python. I have been trying to convince him
> that PHP isn't cut out for background services and is mostly a front-
> end language. Python is much more geared towards hardcore data
> processing. Why write the system in two languages?
>
> I have been spending a lot of time looking at the Pyramid project: the
> next generation of the Pylons project. It looks powerful, but it seems
> to be a lot more complex than Django.

CodeIgniter is a very fine framework, however it builds on top of a 
shitty excuse of a language called PHP.

I've found that Django has a much better debugging tools; when a Django 
page produces an exception, it would always produce a useful error page. 
I haven't been able to do the same in CodeIgniter (nor in any PHP 
framework I've used, I'm starting to think it's a language limitation); 
often when you have errors, PHP would just silently return empty or 
partial pages even with all the debugging flags on.

IMO, Python has a much nicer choice of built-in data structure for data 
processing. Python has a much more mature object-orientation, e.g. I 
prefer writing l.append(x) rather than array_push(l, x). I think these 
qualities are what makes you think Python is much, much more suitable 
for data processing than PHP; and I wholesomely agree.

Database abstraction-wise, Django's ORM wins hands down against 
CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord. CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord is basically just 
a thin wrapper that abstracts the perks of various database engine. 
Django's ORM is a full blown ORM, it handles foreign key relationships 
in OO way. The only disadvantage of Django's ORM is that since it's 
written in Python, if you need to write a program working on the same 
database that doesn't use Django nor Python, then you'll have a problem 
since you'll have to duplicate the foreign key relationships.

With all the bashing of PHP, PHP do have a few advantages. PHP and 
CodeIgniter is much easier to set up and running than Django; and the 
ability to create a .php file and have it running without having to 
write the routing file is sometimes a bliss. And PHP are often used as 
their own templating language; in contrast with Django which uses a 
separate templating language. Having a full blown language as your 
templating language can be a double-edged sword, but it is useful 
nevertheless for experimental work.

IMO, while it is easier to get up and running in PHP, in the long run 
Python is much better in almost any other aspects.



From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:10:59 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: overview on dao
Message-ID: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
written in python. The links related to dao are here:

pypi distribution and document: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/daot
code repository: https://github.com/chaosim/dao
dao groups on google: Group name: daot, Group home page:
http://groups.google.com/group/daot, Group email address:
daot at googlegroups.com
old stuffs: http://code.google.com/p/daot(old, deprecated)
google+ pages: https://plus.google.com/112050694070234685790

Dao has the features such as

*   lisp style programming:

    *  call/cc, block/return-from, unwind-protect, catch/throw;

        Dao is implemented by continuation passing style, so it is
natural to implement such stuff. And I have some little improvement to
the trampoline technology because I need it coexist with the
technology of using yield statement to implement unifying and
backtracking. The code for evaluating lisp style expression is
borrowed from the book "Lisp in Small Pieces" wrote by Christian
Queinnec and Ecole Polytechnique.

    *  function and macro;

       The concept of function and macro in dao become more general
than in lisp, because we can define them with multiple rules and take
advantage of unifying and backtracking.

    *  eval, so called meta circular evaluation.

* prolog style programming:

    *  logic variable and unify;

    *   backtracking;

    *   findall, repeat/fail, call, once, and so on;

    *   cut.

    At first, unify is implemented by using exception, and
backtracking by using two continuations(succeed continuation and fail
continuation) technology, borrowed the code from pypy prolog. Now, the
fail continuation is removed, and both unifying and backtracking is
implemented  by using 'yield' statement, which I learned from
YieldProlog (http://yieldprolog.sourceforge.net). Dao run faster than
before by using yield statement, removing class definition of
continuation, and not boxing atomic and list values(compare to pypy
prolog without translation or jit). Up to now I do not use the pypy's
translation or jit feature to speedup, and all of the tests in dao
0.7.3 run in about two minutes.

* many other useful builtins that simulate lisp and prolog
primitives.

* some builtins that cooperate with python.

* builtin parser, which is the most powerful parser I have seen.

  The parser in dao is basically a recursive decent parser with
backtracking, but It also support direct or indirect left recursive
rules by using memorization when needed. The programmer can toggle
memorization of any command that is not left recursive. the grammar in
dao is some similar to DCG(definite clause grammar), but is more
flexible than DCG. It have the expressive power beyond context free or
sensitive grammar, parsing expression grammar. Dao can be used to
parse any object, not limiting to text. Many builtin terminal and
combinative parsing primitives are provided.

  In dao, I have found and implemented the unrivalled technology to
uniting parser and evaluator by the meta circular evaluation. So Dao
can be used to implement a programming language in which the syntax is
dynamic, that is to say, the syntax can be defined on the fly by the
programmer easily. A little sample to demonstrate this technology is
given in the files dao/samples/sexpression.py and dao/dao/tests/
testsexpresson.py.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dinpy: a child language born and live in python.

  Dinpy can be looked as the syntax sugar for dao in python. It arises
accidentally when I wrote tests for dao. A detailed introduction is as
follows: I hate the too many parentheses when I wrote tests for the
'let' statement of lisp, so I replace embedded tuples with dict for
the bindings, and after the spark of inspiration, the door to dinpy
was open. I learned a new method for inventing a new language from it:
use the syntax based on the operator of the mother language for
building the child language.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have written some Chinese documents for dao, but few English. The
Chinese document is not complete yet. With the functional logic
programming and dynamic grammar on the shoulders of the great python,
many possibilities arises with dao, such as parsing, inventing
embedded DSL with operator syntax, independent domain specific
language or general language, text processing, natural language
processing, expert system, artificial intelligence, web application,
and so on.

Now:

* I hope more people know and use dao. Or maybe something wrong in dao
prevent it being used in real application, and I hope to know what it
is.

* Maybe anyone have interest and time to join in developing dao or
writing some documents or articles?

* More tests are needed always, and I hope to get some bug report from
any other people.

* the benchmarks of the dao, comparation with similar package, and so
on.

* I have a long todo list, I hope someone else can join in dao project.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:29:25 2011
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:29:25 +1100
Subject: Question about 'iterable cursors'
In-Reply-To: <4eb77503$0$1692$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.2460.1320569710.27778.python-list@python.org>	<87pqh54nmh.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>	<j95kld$ng4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2472.1320609864.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb77503$0$1692$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <j9aenm$v4j$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/07/2011 05:04 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> Realize that SQLite is not a high-performance multi-user database.
> You use SQLite to store your browser preferences, not your customer
> database.

I agree with SQLite is not multi-user; I disagree that SQLite is not a 
high-performance database. In single user cases, SQLite should far 
outperform a client-server-based database engine since it doesn't have 
the client-server overhead.



From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:34:55 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simpler over view on dao: a functional logic solver with builtin
	parsing power, and dinpy, the sugar syntax for dao in python
Message-ID: <da6cf8cd-497f-4eed-a984-2ac5c582998e@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
written in python. The links related to dao are here:

pypi distribution and document: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/daot

code repository: https://github.com/chaosim/dao

dao groups on google: http://groups.google.com/group/daot,
daot at googlegroups.com

old stuffs: http://code.google.com/p/daot(old, deprecated)

google+ pages: https://plus.google.com/112050694070234685790

Dao has the features such as

*   lisp style programming:

    *  call/cc, block/return-from, unwind-protect, catch/throw;

    *  function and macro;

    *  eval, so called meta circular evaluation.

* prolog style programming:

    *  logic variable and unify;

    *   backtracking;

    *   findall, repeat/fail, call, once, and so on;

    *   cut.

* many other useful builtins that simulate lisp and prolog
primitives.

* some builtins that cooperate with python.

* builtin parser, which is the most powerful parser I have seen, it
support the features as below:

    *   paramater grammar, similar to DCG( definite clause grammar),
but more flexible
    *   dynamic grammar,
    *   left recursive
    *   memoriaziont parsing result
    *   many builtins, include terminal and cominative matchers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dinpy: a child language born and live in python.

  Dinpy can be looked as the syntax sugar for dao in python. A piece
of code in dinpy is listed as below:

        parse_text(char(x1)+any(~char('b')+some(char(x1)))+eoi,
'abaaaa'),

	let( i<<0 ). do[ repeat, prin(i), ++i, iff(i<3).do[fail] ],

	letr( a << fun(x) [ and_p(b(x),c(x)) ]
			  [ d(x) ],
	      b << fun(1) ['b1']
		      (4) ['b4'],
	      c << fun(4) ['c4'],
	      d << fun(3) ['d3'],
	     ).do[
	     a(x), prin(x) ],

	each(i)[1:3].
	  loop[prin(i)],

	i << 0,
	loop[ i << i+1, prin(i)].when(i==3),

	case(1).
	  of(1)[prin(1)].
	  of(2)[prin(2)]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some Chinese documents for dao is written, but few English. The
Chinese document is not complete yet.

With the functional logic programming and dynamic grammar on the
shoulders of the great python, many possibilities arises with dao,
such as parsing, inventing embedded DSL with operator syntax,
independent domain specific language or general language, text
processing, natural language processing, expert system, artificial
intelligence, web application, and so on.

Now:

* I hope more people know and use dao. Or maybe something wrong in dao
prevent it being used in real application, and I hope to know what it
is.

* Maybe anyone have interest and time to join in developing dao or
writing some documents or articles?

* More tests are needed always, and I hope to get some bug report from
any other people.

* the benchmarks of the dao, comparation with similar package, and so
on.

* I have a long todo list, I hope someone else can join in dao project.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 00:58:17 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Nov 2011 05:58:17 GMT
Subject: How to mix-in __getattr__ after the fact?
References: <4630c4d0-86bc-4295-8bbb-6f58415191c8@v15g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EAAF264.1050307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2298.1319855210.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<8bc11029-860e-4d3a-8770-062e16e31514@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2529.1320725851.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb8c4f9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:17:14 +1100, Lie Ryan wrote:

> On 10/31/2011 11:01 PM, dhyams wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all of the responses; everyone was exactly correct, and
>> obeying the binding rules for special methods did work in the example
>> above.  Unfortunately, I only have read-only access to the class itself
>> (it was a VTK class wrapped with SWIG), so I had to find another way to
>> accomplish what I was after.
>>
>>
> As a big huge hack, you can always write a wrapper class:
> 
> class Wrapper(object):
>      def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>          self.__object = MySWIGClass(*args, **kwargs)
>      def __getattr__(self, attr):
>          try:
>              return getattr(self.__object, attr)
>          except AttributeError:
>              ...


That's not a hack, that's a well-respected design pattern called 
Delegation.

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Delegate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegation_pattern


In this case, you've implemented about half of automatic delegation:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52295

which used to be much more important in Python prior to the type/class 
unification in version 2.2.


To also delegate special dunder methods using new-style classes, see this:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/252151



-- 
Steven


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Tue Nov  8 01:29:46 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 01:29:46 -0500
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <201111080129.46728.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:53:20 AM Cameron Simpson did opine:

> On 07Nov2011 15:00, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
> | On Monday, November 07, 2011 02:43:11 PM Dave Angel did opine:
> | > On 11/07/2011 11:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> | > > Down toward the bottom of the file, the tab indentations were as
> | > > high as 33 leading tabs per line.  Each stanza of the data was
> | > > tab indented 2 additional tabs from the one above it in the
> | > > original file.  30k was perhaps a poor SWAG, but 10 to 15k seems
> | > > an entirely reasonable guess.
> | > 
> | > What program are you using to read the file and support that claim?
> | 
> | vim.  But remember, this first one started out as a copy/paste from
> | the firefox-7.0.1 screen.
> 
> I don't suppose you had autoident turned on?
> 
I think it is.  I gave up turning it off long ago because it was always on 
on the next launch.  Today I've forgotten how to turn it off.  Like hitting 
oneself in the head with a hammer, it feels so good when you stop.  :)

> I hate using cu/paste to fetch data; _always_ use a "download" link, or
> use the browser's "save page as" facility.

Which would have saved all the html codes too, this code was being 
displayed in a window of the main window.
 
> But still, if your MD5 checksums now match...

Not on that file, but on the next pull it was, and works now.  And on the 
first file, the blink compare disclosed I had some indentation wrong, and 
that there was a lowercase b in front of all the opening double quotes used 
that I didn't get originally.  I have no clue what this:
	b"hex data" means to python.

> Cheers,


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
To love is good, love being difficult.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 01:42:20 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:42:20 +1100
Subject: Python lesson please
In-Reply-To: <201111080129.46728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <201111071500.49230.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<20111108045900.GA12613@cskk.homeip.net>
	<201111080129.46728.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8P1EEpKTtYajfEnvf9=8KwB6hBUS6TT3EU6GGbVrs8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:29 PM, gene heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
> Not on that file, but on the next pull it was, and works now. ?And on the
> first file, the blink compare disclosed I had some indentation wrong, and
> that there was a lowercase b in front of all the opening double quotes used
> that I didn't get originally. ?I have no clue what this:
> ? ? ? ?b"hex data" means to python.

That's the repr() of a Bytes string (as opposed to a Unicode string)
in Python 3. If that's your only issue, I'd say you have it working
fine under Python 3; if there are other problems, try running it under
Python 2.7.

ChrisA


From moky.math at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 02:07:39 2011
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:07:39 +0100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9akfo$86c$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>

Le 07/11/2011 19:01, JoeM a ?crit :
> Thanks guys, I was just looking for a one line solution instead of a
> for loop if possible. Why do you consider
>
> [x.remove(x[0]) for x in [a,b,c]]
>
> cheating? It seems compact and elegant enough for me.

I have the feeling that it does not do what I expect it does just by 
seeing the line. It is list comprehension, but the point is absolutely 
not in creating a list.

I'd say it breaks the rule ?Explicit is better than implicit.? while 
?Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.?

But well... could be a matter of taste; I prefer the loop.

Laurent


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 02:35:32 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 18:35:32 +1100
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com> <j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqtdDnh3diL_7mDu3skkyAnkPkGrnWPxmL_UKdqkOLPyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
> IMO, Python has a much nicer choice of built-in data structure for data
> processing. Python has a much more mature object-orientation, e.g. I prefer
> writing l.append(x) rather than array_push(l, x). I think these qualities
> are what makes you think Python is much, much more suitable for data
> processing than PHP; and I wholesomely agree.
>

Two more examples where Python's lists are superior to PHP's arrays.
Array literal syntax feels like a function call, but list literals are
slim and easy to use inside expressions (try creating a nested array
as a function argument - you'll get a forest of parens). Also,
dereferencing an array only works on an array variable - if you have a
function that returns an array, you can't dereference it directly:

$foo = func()[1];   # doesn't work
$foo = func(); $foo=$foo[1];  # works

I much prefer the "everything's an object" notion. C's array literals
are just as weird (although in C, you can directly dereference a
literal character array - "ABCDEFG"[note_idx] will give you a note
name as a char)... much easier when a variable name is just an
expression, a function call is an expression, a literal is an
expression, and you can work with them all the same way.

ChrisA


From vaira20ster at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 05:05:53 2011
From: vaira20ster at gmail.com (vaira muthu)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:35:53 +0530
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
Message-ID: <CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg@mail.gmail.com>

Team,

In Python IDE, while we save the script, it will prompt the save
Dialog. If we specify the filename as "Test". Then file will be saved
without extension as "Test" and not "Test.py".

Is it possible to save the script with .py extension automatically (as Test.py)?

Thanks,
vairamuthu.


From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Nov  8 05:50:53 2011
From: lycka at carmen.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 11:50:53 +0100
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9b1ie$kec$1@rifle.jeppesensystems.com>

On 2011-11-08 11:05, vaira muthu wrote:
> In Python IDE, ...

Which Python IDE?

There are dozens:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments



From hfaber at invalid.net  Tue Nov  8 07:09:20 2011
From: hfaber at invalid.net (Henrik Faber)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 13:09:20 +0100
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 07.11.2011 23:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:46 AM, david vierra <codewarrior0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But, you didn't write an all() function.  You wrote a more specialized
>> allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
>> builtin all():
> 
> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:

PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.

Regards, Henrik


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 07:14:09 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 23:14:09 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Henrik Faber <hfaber at invalid.net> wrote:
> On 07.11.2011 23:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
>> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>
> PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
> this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.

For the benefit of anyone who was actually in doubt: YES, I was
joking. Do *not* put code like this into any production project.

But it's still fun to write bad code once in a while. It's like
Mythbusters getting to crash cars. Fun partly _because_ it's something
you normally don't want to do.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov  8 07:58:19 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:58:19 -0500
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqtdDnh3diL_7mDu3skkyAnkPkGrnWPxmL_UKdqkOLPyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f9f9361-8278-4ae6-8d4d-5fd09b0fd800@hc5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>	<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b45030a@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>	<j98tnf$qh0$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j995df$490$1@reader1.panix.com>	<eb3e170a-ffd2-4579-96a4-6b213c031f50@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<j9adj5$qki$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqtdDnh3diL_7mDu3skkyAnkPkGrnWPxmL_UKdqkOLPyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB9276B.7070207@davea.name>

On 11/08/2011 02:35 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Lie Ryan<lie.1296 at gmail.com>  wrote:
> <SNIP>
> I much prefer the "everything's an object" notion. C's array literals
> are just as weird (although in C, you can directly dereference a
> literal character array - "ABCDEFG"[note_idx] will give you a note
> name as a char)
Hey, in C you can also do

      note_idx["ABCDEFG"]

and get the selected character as if you had written what you showed.  
Plenty of opportunity in C to write illegible code.

-- 

DaveA



From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 08:20:51 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 05:20:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help catching error message
Message-ID: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

What I say is this:

def SaveEvents(self,events):
   try:
      plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
None if OK
   except IOError:
      return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
file"

Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.

I catch the error like this:

errorStatus=Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
if errorStatus: content=errorStatus

It works, but isn there a more elegant way to do it? As in, one line?
I can imagine if success returned nothing then content would remain
unchanged. Isn't there a built-in way to send an error string back and
then catch it as a variable name?

This is Py3 inside WSGI.

-- Gnarlie


From garyfallidis at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 08:21:29 2011
From: garyfallidis at gmail.com (Eleftherios Garyfallidis)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:21:29 +0100
Subject: ctypes accessing functions with double pointers
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRRmHBVq4SSV4nMJhTpyw7SXteSgoRpMPxqLRG-BfmJ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6JmWN3SMnyO+bo4oQOG1Pcpz_VReqM6_JTc6FQJHerjb40+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMZYqRRmHBVq4SSV4nMJhTpyw7SXteSgoRpMPxqLRG-BfmJ1Kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6JmWOX9q9OBrgH9mMj_gkf-2T6QyU+MJymTHQocrh9iiXRNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Chris :-)

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Eleftherios Garyfallidis
> <garyfallidis at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Is it possible using ctypes to call C functions from a shared object
> > containing double pointers e.g. int foo(float **i) and if yes how?
>
> (Untested conjecture:)
>
> import ctypes
> # ...create ctypes_wrapped_foo...
> the_float = ctypes.c_float(42.1)
> float_ptr = ctypes.byref(the_float)
> i = ctypes.byref(float_ptr)
> result_integer = ctypes_wrapped_foo(i)
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
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From gordon at panix.com  Tue Nov  8 10:17:19 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:17:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9bh5v$a2$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list at python.org> vaira muthu <vaira20ster at gmail.com> writes:

> Team,

> In Python IDE, while we save the script, it will prompt the save
> Dialog. If we specify the filename as "Test". Then file will be saved
> without extension as "Test" and not "Test.py".

Is there a drop-down list selection for specifying the file type?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From rajcspalani at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 10:53:52 2011
From: rajcspalani at gmail.com (mannan)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:53:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6395.778.1320767632967.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

if it is not a python ide then, you have to explicitly specify the extension.


From rajcspalani at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 10:53:52 2011
From: rajcspalani at gmail.com (mannan)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:53:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2537.1320746755.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6395.778.1320767632967.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

if it is not a python ide then, you have to explicitly specify the extension.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov  8 12:15:40 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:15:40 +0100
Subject: Help catching error message
In-Reply-To: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB963BC.7080506@sequans.com>

Gnarlodious wrote:
> What I say is this:
>
> def SaveEvents(self,events):
>    try:
>       plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
> None if OK
>    except IOError:
>       return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
> file"
>
> Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.
>
> I catch the error like this:
>
> errorStatus=Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
> if errorStatus: content=errorStatus
>
> It works, but isn there a more elegant way to do it? As in, one line?
> I can imagine if success returned nothing then content would remain
> unchanged. Isn't there a built-in way to send an error string back and
> then catch it as a variable name?
>
> This is Py3 inside WSGI.
>
> -- Gnarlie
>   
Hi,

There's no need to rephrase an exception unless you want to *add* 
information.

def saveEvents(self,events):
    plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') 

try:   
    Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
except IOError, exc: # i'm using python 2.5, this except clause may have 
changed in py3
    content = str(exc)

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov  8 12:24:30 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:24:30 +0100
Subject: Help catching error message
In-Reply-To: <4EB963BC.7080506@sequans.com>
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB963BC.7080506@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4EB965CE.4020300@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Gnarlodious wrote:
>> What I say is this:
>>
>> def SaveEvents(self,events):
>>    try:
>>       plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
>> None if OK
>>    except IOError:
>>       return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
>> file"
>>
>> Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.
>>
>> I catch the error like this:
>>
>> errorStatus=Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
>> if errorStatus: content=errorStatus
>>
>> It works, but isn there a more elegant way to do it? As in, one line?
>> I can imagine if success returned nothing then content would remain
>> unchanged. Isn't there a built-in way to send an error string back and
>> then catch it as a variable name?
>>
>> This is Py3 inside WSGI.
>>
>> -- Gnarlie
>>   
> Hi,
>
> There's no need to rephrase an exception unless you want to *add* 
> information.
>
> def saveEvents(self,events):
>    plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist')
> try:      Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
> except IOError, exc: # i'm using python 2.5, this except clause may 
> have changed in py3
>    content = str(exc)
>
> JM
>
looks like for whatever reason the formating has gone crazy.
http://www.copypastecode.com/100088/

jm



From nad at acm.org  Tue Nov  8 12:28:28 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:28:28 -0800
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
References: <CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nad-CC71BB.09282808112011@dough.gmane.org>

In article 
<CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg at mail.gmail.com>,
 vaira muthu <vaira20ster at gmail.com> wrote:
> In Python IDE, while we save the script, it will prompt the save
> Dialog. If we specify the filename as "Test". Then file will be saved
> without extension as "Test" and not "Test.py".
> 
> Is it possible to save the script with .py extension automatically (as 
> Test.py)?

If the IDE you are referring to is IDLE, there is an issue recently 
opened that requests this change:
    http://bugs.python.org/issue10364

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  8 14:09:18 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:09:18 -0500
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2011 11:32 PM, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
> I got trouble about easy_install command.
>
> My package:
>
>    README.rst
>    setup.py
>    foobar/
>    foobar/__init__.py
>    foobar/data/
>    foobar/data/template.py
>
> In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
> template data file (= not a python module file).

Then why is it .py? If it is just data, use .txt. If .py, it should be 
python code run either directly or imported, though I suppose you could 
exec it. (I have no idea how renaming would affect your problem.)

> (notice that 'foobar/data/__init__.py' doesn't exist.)

I did, and no, I do not know the answer to your question.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From anikom15 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 14:11:58 2011
From: anikom15 at gmail.com (Westley =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDnez?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:11:58 -0800
Subject: Line continuation issue\
In-Reply-To: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz-UDMhqMTBsMLvRHYNz7V4=ZYMQ3uaR4qRFUQy3JqDEbsemg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111108191158.GA21926@kubrick>

On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 11:10:58AM -0400, Steven Lehar wrote:
> Is this the right place to propose language extensions?
> 
> My Python code keeps expanding rightwards, it is difficult to keep it
> contained within reasonable limits. But the standard line continuation \
> is positively anti-Pythonic because an *invisible* white space between \
> and [CR] will render it useless.
> 
> How about a new Python symbol, maybe \\ that CAN have following whitespace
> which is ignored, so that seeing a \\ in the code forces it to continue on
> the next line.
> 
> Has this issue been discussed already?
> 
>   slehar

Use subroutines.


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Nov  8 14:34:30 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:34:30 -0500
Subject: xml-rpc server on wine
In-Reply-To: <1320685031.8941.11.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <650e9d68-e606-4424-bca7-174295306d82@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1320685031.8941.11.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <0604E20B5F6F2F4784C9C8C71C5DD4DD2FDF6DE578@EMARC112VS01.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>> Hi, I have a XML-RPC server python running on VM Windows (on Linux)
>> and a XML-RPC client python on Linux. Server and client have different
>> IP address. I'd like migrate server on wine. How can communicate
>> server and client? IP address is different or is the same?
>> Can you help me?

>Not really, this doesn't have much of anything to do with Python.  If
>you run a network application on wine [assuming that even works] the
>application will have the same IP/interface as any other application or
>service running on the host.  Wine is not a 'virtualization' solution.

Unless you have a specific need to run it in a virtual machine (which 
WINE is not), why not run it directly from Linux? I generally prefer
to use a DNS name or hostname to connect instead of IP because the
IP addresses can be dynamic (especially when you start accessing it 
from outside your local network). Even internally, I tend to use hostnames
and not IP addresses, but mostly because it is faster/easier for me 
to type (I assign static IPs internally).

Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 17:16:33 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Nov 2011 22:16:33 GMT
Subject: Help catching error message
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb9aa41$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 05:20:51 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote:

> What I say is this:
> 
> def SaveEvents(self,events):
>    try:
>       plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist') #
> None if OK
>    except IOError:
>       return "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist
> file"
> 
> Note that success returns"None" while failure returns a string.

I started off writing a sarcastic response about people who refuse to 
learn idiomatic Python and instead insist on writing (e.g.) Java or PHPP 
in Python. But then I eventually got to the *very last line* of your post 
where you noted that you were doing this in WSGI.

For future reference, when writing unidiomatic code *deliberately*, 
please say so up front, at the start of your message rather than at the 
end, and save your readers (or at least *me*) from jumping to the wrong 
conclusion.


Change the function to this:

def SaveEvents(self,events):
    try:
        plistlib.writePlist(events, self.path+'/Data/Events.plist')
        return ''
    except IOError as e:
        return str(e)
        # or if you prefer, your own custom error string
        # "IOError: [Errno 13] Apache can't write Events.plist file"


I return a string in both cases so that you can, if you choose, use the 
output of SaveEvents anywhere where a string is expected without worrying 
about whether it returns None or a string:

content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events)
# content will be the empty string if no error, otherwise error message.

If you don't care about that, just delete the return '' line and the 
function will fall back on returning None by default.

Either way, you can also use it like this:

content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events) or content

This will leave content unchanged if no error is returned, otherwise it 
will replace the value. Note that content must have an initial value to 
start with (presumably the empty string).


-- 
Steven


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  8 17:19:13 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:19:13 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
Message-ID: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Hi people!
I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.

Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!

now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py

in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.


Tamer


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Nov  8 17:24:58 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:24:58 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4eb9ac3b$0$6908$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 8-11-2011 23:19, MrSmile wrote:
> Hi people!
> I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
>
> Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
>
> now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
> python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
>
> in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
> like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.
>
>
> Tamer

sys.argv


Irmen



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Nov  8 17:32:30 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:32:30 -0800
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTgTU=w6P_Ff-k3VX8_W8Qwpgf-K1y2N77mj-EzCZGTSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM, MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:
> Hi people!
> I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
>
> Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
>
> now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
> python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
>
> in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
> like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.

Under your example conditions:
sys.argv[0] will be "/home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py". (A)
os.getcwd() will return "/tmp". (B)

The `os.path` module is also very relevant:
http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com

(A): http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.argv
(B): http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.getcwd


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Nov  8 17:32:38 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:32:38 +1100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <20111108223238.GA24364@cskk.homeip.net>

On 08Nov2011 23:19, MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:
| I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
| 
| Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
| 
| now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
| python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
| 
| in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
| like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.

Have you looked in sys.argv[0]?
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

It is not true that life is one damn thing after another -- it's one damn
thing over and over.    - Edna St. Vincent Millay


From no at mail.de  Tue Nov  8 17:36:13 2011
From: no at mail.de (MrSmile)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:36:13 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2553.1320791563.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<mailman.2553.1320791563.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb9aedd$0$6567$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Thank you all, that was it that I was searching for you.


Tamer

Am 08.11.2011 23:32, schrieb Cameron Simpson:
> On 08Nov2011 23:19, MrSmile <no at mail.de> wrote:
> | I am looking for a way to get the command line in the script.
> | 
> | Let us say I am in the folder "/tmp" okay!
> | 
> | now from /tmp I execute in the console this:
> | python /home/tamer/MyApp/MyScript.py
> | 
> | in the app itself, I want to grep the path and the scriptname itself,
> | like: /home/tamer/MyApp is being somewhere available.
> 
> Have you looked in sys.argv[0]?



From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Nov  8 17:51:27 2011
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:51:27 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB9B26F.3050704@optimum.net>

On 2:59 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

>>> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
>>> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>> PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
>> this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.
> For the benefit of anyone who was actually in doubt: YES, I was
> joking. Do *not* put code like this into any production project.

Because an all-factory would produce code smell? :-)



From tim at akwebsoft.com  Tue Nov  8 18:54:12 2011
From: tim at akwebsoft.com (Tim Johnson)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:54:12 -0900
Subject: Decouplable CMS in python?
Message-ID: <20111108235412.GK3736@akwebsoft.com>

:)I'm sure decouplable is a word. If not it should be.

I have written my own framework. This has been a work in progress as
a consequence of projects that I have done over the last 10 years.
I need a CMS that sits "on top of" the framework. One of the
starting points that I have considered is finding a fairly simple,
but well-written CMS in python and adapting it. 

It may very well turn out that I would have to start from 'scratch',
nevertheless, reviewing code for such a simple CMS would be
informative. 

I'm thinking that, as an example - django-cms - would be too
complex, regardless of its merits. 

Any recommendations?
thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Nov  8 18:56:48 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:56:48 -0600
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4EB9B26F.3050704@optimum.net>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2522.1320703618.27778.python-list@python.org>	<j9b65e$c26$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<CAPTjJmrSaS5-3Az4f6p62x15B1S5C4PYENxtRjS46rq9=Am-3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EB9B26F.3050704@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4EB9C1C0.2050302@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/08/2011 04:51 PM, John Posner wrote:
> On 2:59 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>>>> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
>>>> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>>> PLEASE say you're joking. If I saw code like that on any of our project,
>>> this would definitely qualify for a DailyWTF.
>> For the benefit of anyone who was actually in doubt: YES, I was
>> joking. Do *not* put code like this into any production project.
>
> Because an all-factory would produce code smell? :-)

Groan...that word-play is the pits! :)

-tkc




From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 19:13:12 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:13:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: overview on dao
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 9, 1:52?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST), Simeon Chaos
> <simeon.ch... at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
> > written in python. The links related to dao are here:
>
> ? ? ? ? Unfortunately the name is in conflict with M$ DAO (Data Access
> Objects), the precursor to ADO. Every time I see "Dao" my mind goes "JET
> database".
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? AF6VN
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Yeah,  here "dao" is from The book of Dao" by Laozi, means the way of
the world go.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 19:44:18 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 19:44:18 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>

Clearly what we need is a modern hygienic macro system to avoid this exec mess!

defmacro defall(name, cond):
    def name(lst):
        for a in lst:
            if not cond:
                return False
        return True

invoke defall(all, cond)

Only slightly tongue in cheek.

We have that stupid exec trick in the Python stdlib. It has to die.

http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/6bf07db23445/Lib/collections/__init__.py#l240

Devin

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:46 AM, david vierra <codewarrior0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But, you didn't write an all() function. ?You wrote a more specialized
>> allBoolean() function. I think this comparison is more fair to the
>> builtin all():
>
> So really, it's not "all() is slow" but "function calls are slow".
> Maybe it'd be worthwhile making an all-factory:
>
> def my_all(code,lst):
> ? ?exec("""def tmp_all(x):
> ? ? ? ?for a in x:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if not ("""+code+"""): return False
> ? ? ? ?return True
> """)
> ? ?return tmp_all(lst)
> timeit.timeit('my_all("a in (True, False)",x)','from __main__ import
> my_all,x',number=10)
>
> Bad code imho, but it _is_ faster than both the original and the builtin.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov  8 19:55:35 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:55:35 +0000
Subject: overview on dao
In-Reply-To: <79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EB9CF87.6060202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 09/11/2011 00:13, Simeon Chaos wrote:
> On Nov 9, 1:52 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com>  wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST), Simeon Chaos
>> <simeon.ch... at gmail.com>  declaimed the following in
>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>> Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
>>> written in python. The links related to dao are here:
>>
>>          Unfortunately the name is in conflict with M$ DAO (Data Access
>> Objects), the precursor to ADO. Every time I see "Dao" my mind goes "JET
>> database".
>> --
>>          Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
>>          wlfr... at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> Yeah,  here "dao" is from The book of Dao" by Laozi, means the way of
> the world go.

Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 20:19:42 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:19:42 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Clearly what we need is a modern hygienic macro system to avoid this exec mess!
>
> defmacro defall(name, cond):
> ? ?def name(lst):
> ? ? ? ?for a in lst:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if not cond:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return False
> ? ? ? ?return True

#define defall(name,cond) def name(lst): \
    for a in lst: \
        if not cond: return False \
    return True

gcc -E myprog.pyi -o myprog.py

There's no code you can't make more opaque using the C preprocessor.

Python doesn't have inline functions? Ha! In your FACE, evil Python
development cabal! You can't tell ME what I can't do!

ChrisA
PS. Don't try this at home. We have years of experience with bad code.
Don't write code like this unless you have a life insurance policy
that covers angry mobs.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Nov  8 20:30:48 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:30:48 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRB4xQPObBcYfzZkEzN=4wMUOxvtFGL=qcyVGGSeUA=Hw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
> <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Clearly what we need is a modern hygienic macro system to avoid this exec mess!
>>
>> defmacro defall(name, cond):
>> ? ?def name(lst):
>> ? ? ? ?for a in lst:
>> ? ? ? ? ? ?if not cond:
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return False
>> ? ? ? ?return True
>
> #define defall(name,cond) def name(lst): \
> ? ?for a in lst: \
> ? ? ? ?if not cond: return False \
> ? ?return True
>
> gcc -E myprog.pyi -o myprog.py
>
> There's no code you can't make more opaque using the C preprocessor.
>
> Python doesn't have inline functions? Ha! In your FACE, evil Python
> development cabal! You can't tell ME what I can't do!
>
> ChrisA
> PS. Don't try this at home. We have years of experience with bad code.
> Don't write code like this unless you have a life insurance policy
> that covers angry mobs.

Burn him! Witch! Witch! Burn him!
His code turned me into a newt!
--
Sent nailed to a coconut carried by swallow.


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 20:48:57 2011
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:48:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help catching error message
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb9aa41$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d71afa52-8fe8-40cf-a80f-ae9e76984ee2@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 8, 3:16?pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events) or content
>
> This will leave content unchanged if no error is returned, otherwise it
> will replace the value.
Ah, the 'or' operator does it. Thank you, that is exactly what I was
looking for.

I should confess, I am not a programmer and don't even know what
"idiomatic" means in this context. I don't know Java or PHP, only a
little Forth from the HP calculator era. Advanced topics I just skip
over because I don't understand them. But I am learning slowly and
appreciate the help.

-- Rachel
http://Sectrum.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 21:47:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Nov 2011 02:47:30 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:44:18 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

> We have that stupid exec trick in the Python stdlib. It has to die.
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/6bf07db23445/Lib/collections/__init__.py#l240


http://bugs.python.org/issue3974
http://blog.ccpgames.com/kristjan/2011/05/28/namedtuple-and-exec/

If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use 
of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov  8 21:57:28 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Nov 2011 02:57:28 GMT
Subject: Help catching error message
References: <8629ed5b-a657-4bda-9930-a0571279f4d6@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb9aa41$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<d71afa52-8fe8-40cf-a80f-ae9e76984ee2@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb9ec18$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:48:57 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote:

> On Nov 8, 3:16?pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> content = Data.Dict.SaveEvents(Data.Plist.Events) or content
>>
>> This will leave content unchanged if no error is returned, otherwise it
>> will replace the value.
> Ah, the 'or' operator does it. Thank you, that is exactly what I was
> looking for.
> 
> I should confess, I am not a programmer and don't even know what
> "idiomatic" means in this context. I don't know Java or PHP, only a
> little Forth from the HP calculator era. Advanced topics I just skip
> over because I don't understand them. But I am learning slowly and
> appreciate the help.

Idiomatic in this context means that the code follows standard styles, 
patterns or techniques commonly accepted by most good programmers of the 
language. This implies that the code works with the language, playing to 
its strengths, rather than against it.

Non-idiomatic code tends to be slower than it could be, or harder to 
read, or harder to maintain, or all three. Idiomatic is relative to the 
language: what is idiomatic for one language may not be for another.

For instance, if I were to ask "How do I do something with each item of a 
list?", the idiomatic way in Python would be:


for item in some_list:
    do_something_with(item)


rather than:

for i in range(len(some_list)):
    item = some_list[index]
    do_something_with(item)

and especially not this:

index = 0
while index < len(some_list):
    item = some_list[index]
    do_something_with(item)
    index += 1



Regards,



-- 
Steven


From mcepl at redhat.com  Wed Nov  9 05:20:08 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:20:08 +0100
Subject: getting command line in python
In-Reply-To: <4eb9aedd$0$6567$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <4eb9aae1$0$6549$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<mailman.2553.1320791563.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9aedd$0$6567$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <j9dk24$27d7$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Dne 8.11.2011 23:36, MrSmile napsal(a):
> Thank you all, that was it that I was searching for you.

Except that most likely it wasn't the right answer. Take a look at 
http://docs.python.org/library/argparse.html (or optparse, if you are on 
Python < 2.7).

Best,

Mat?j


From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 06:17:28 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 03:17:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: overview on dao
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2559.1320800531.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 9, 8:55?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 09/11/2011 00:13, Simeon Chaos wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 9, 1:52 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> ?wrote:
> >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:10:59 -0800 (PST), Simeon Chaos
> >> <simeon.ch... at gmail.com> ?declaimed the following in
> >> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >>> Dao is a a functional logic solver (similar to lambdaProlog, Curry)
> >>> written in python. The links related to dao are here:
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Unfortunately the name is in conflict with M$ DAO (Data Access
> >> Objects), the precursor to ADO. Every time I see "Dao" my mind goes "JET
> >> database".
> >> --
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Wulfraed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? AF6VN
> >> ? ? ? ? ?wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> > Yeah, ?here "dao" is from The book of Dao" by Laozi, means the way of
> > the world go.
>
> Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".

I just prefer shorter name.


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Wed Nov  9 09:53:02 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:53:02 -0700
Subject: memory management
In-Reply-To: <4EB8448B.7030709@davea.name>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D0C4@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB83D69.2000409@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014C71D167@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<4EB8448B.7030709@davea.name>
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2323@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

After some exception catching, I have found that my program is throwing a MemoryError exception numerous times (~7 iterations of the main loop that processes list elements) until python25\python.exe crashes (Windows XP environment).   I implemented Dave Angel's suggestions re: processing each list element (a file) as I get it. 

So my question would be how to begin troubleshooting the conditions under which the exception is raised. Is there any more information in the exception object about how much memory is being consumed, or any other indicators as to what led to the exception?

-juan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Angel [mailto:d at davea.name] 
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:50 PM
To: Juan Declet-Barreto
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: memory management

On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
You top-posted.  In this mailing list, one should type new information after the quoted information, not before.

Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order.  On the assumption that it may be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out.  Instead of walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get it.  Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory at the same time.


Generator:

def  filelist(top, criteria):
       for  a, b, c in os.walk():
              for fiile in files:
                    apply some criteria
                    yield file


Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way

for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
        dosomething...



-- 

DaveA



From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Nov  9 10:41:08 2011
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:41:08 +0100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2561.1320802252.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLfvxmyy13Y+4PoLO_1wfkpi7KmBkwh=mCMB4NXfbWP_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpGJFWPcsS+-t3gKcUNMgN47qskkx=_iKpwe5dJHnS+KA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2561.1320802252.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4eba9f14$0$6987$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 9/11/11 02:30:48, Chris Rebert wrote:

> Burn him! Witch! Witch! Burn him!
> His code turned me into a newt!
> --
> Sent nailed to a coconut carried by swallow.

Is that a European swallow or an African swallow?

-- HansM




From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Nov  9 10:56:01 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:56:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: file extension while saving Python files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2547.1320773324.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAKJdEYC0GvEMeMx12rPk173nzyTabSTgkpBByoLRmpcpf8eXzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2547.1320773324.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <18518506.120.1320854161026.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pref15>

In testing and debug  it is better that a program can be easily modified and easy to set break point and dump values. Thus an interpreter environment is more convenient. But in the final version a compiler can speed up a lot!   


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Wed Nov  9 14:08:09 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:08:09 -0700
Subject: guppy
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.  

One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application. 

I am using Cygwin. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Binks [mailto:dbinks at codeaurora.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:31 AM
To: Juan Declet-Barreto
Subject: Re: memory management

On 11/9/2011 6:53 AM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> After some exception catching, I have found that my program is throwing a MemoryError exception numerous times (~7 iterations of the main loop that processes list elements) until python25\python.exe crashes (Windows XP environment).   I implemented Dave Angel's suggestions re: processing each list element (a file) as I get it.
>
> So my question would be how to begin troubleshooting the conditions under which the exception is raised. Is there any more information in the exception object about how much memory is being consumed, or any other indicators as to what led to the exception?
>
> -juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Angel [mailto:d at davea.name]
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:50 PM
> To: Juan Declet-Barreto
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: memory management
>
> On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
>> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
> You top-posted.  In this mailing list, one should type new information after the quoted information, not before.
>
> Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order.  On the assumption that it may be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out.  Instead of walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get it.  Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory at the same time.
>
>
> Generator:
>
> def  filelist(top, criteria):
>         for  a, b, c in os.walk():
>                for fiile in files:
>                      apply some criteria
>                      yield file
>
>
> Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way
>
> for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
>          dosomething...
>
>
>

Look for a tool called heapy.  I had a process that was consuming 10+G of RAM to run.  Using heapy I identified the culprit and reduced down to a more manageable 400M.

Dominic

--
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov  9 14:20:30 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:20:30 +0100
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 09.11.2011 20:08, schrieb Juan Declet-Barreto:
> I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.  
> 
> One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application. 
> 
> I am using Cygwin. 

Please show us the full error message with context.

Are you using a Cygwin build of Python or a native Windows build? What
GCC version and flavor are you using? I'm not sure if Cygwin is even
supported. I recommend that you use MinGW with GCC 4.x if you can't
afford VS 2003.

Christian



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Wed Nov  9 14:28:11 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:28:11 -0500
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXg2ifw1WL5v4z5mnp8651rq+3S6b=XAFfv1cfY1Qf+=vQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto
<Juan.Declet-Barreto at mesaaz.gov> wrote:
>
> I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.
>
> One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application.
>
> I am using Cygwin.
>
>

Mixing Cygwin libraries and normal Windows libraries usually doesn't
always work too well. Are you using a Cygwin-compiled version of
Python?

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dominic Binks [mailto:dbinks at codeaurora.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:31 AM
> To: Juan Declet-Barreto
> Subject: Re: memory management
>
> On 11/9/2011 6:53 AM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> > After some exception catching, I have found that my program is throwing a MemoryError exception numerous times (~7 iterations of the main loop that processes list elements) until python25\python.exe crashes (Windows XP environment). ? I implemented Dave Angel's suggestions re: processing each list element (a file) as I get it.
> >
> > So my question would be how to begin troubleshooting the conditions under which the exception is raised. Is there any more information in the exception object about how much memory is being consumed, or any other indicators as to what led to the exception?
> >
> > -juan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Angel [mailto:d at davea.name]
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:50 PM
> > To: Juan Declet-Barreto
> > Cc: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Re: memory management
> >
> > On 11/07/2011 03:33 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto wrote:
> >> Well, I am using Python 2.5 (and the IDLE shell) in Windows XP, which ships with ESRI's ArcGIS. In addition, I am using some functions in the arcgisscripting Python geoprocessing module for geographic information systems (GIS) applications, which can complicate things. I am currently isolating standard library Python code (e.g., os.walk()) from the arcgisscripting module to evaluate in which module the environment crash is occurring.
> > You top-posted. ?In this mailing list, one should type new information after the quoted information, not before.
> >
> > Perhaps a pre-emptive strike is in order. ?On the assumption that it may be a memory problem, how about you turn the app inside out. ?Instead of walking the entire tree, getting a list with all the paths, and then working on the list, how about doing the work on each file as you get it. ?Or even make your own generator from os.walk, so the app can call your logic on each file, and never have all the file (name)s in memory at the same time.
> >
> >
> > Generator:
> >
> > def ?filelist(top, criteria):
> > ? ? ? ? for ?a, b, c in os.walk():
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for fiile in files:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?apply some criteria
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?yield file
> >
> >
> > Now the main app can iterate through this "list" in the usual way
> >
> > for filename in filelist(top, "*.txt"):
> > ? ? ? ? ?dosomething...
> >
> >
> >
>
> Look for a tool called heapy. ?I had a process that was consuming 10+G of RAM to run. ?Using heapy I identified the culprit and reduced down to a more manageable 400M.
>
> Dominic
>
> --
> Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
> Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov  Wed Nov  9 14:38:03 2011
From: Juan.Declet-Barreto at MesaAZ.gov (Juan Declet-Barreto)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:38:03 -0700
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>

I am using Cygwin build of Python2.6.  This Cygwin install has both a Cygwin gcc (versions 3.4.4 and 4.5.3) and mingw32 (3.4.4), as listed in lib/gcc/. 

I also tried the mingw32 shell separately, but I get the same results even when I pass the "-c mingw32" option. 

The error is reproduced below:

$ python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
building 'guppy.sets.setsc' extension
gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I/usr/include/python2.6 -c src/sets/sets.c -o build/temp.cygwin-1.7.9-i686-2.6/src/sets/sets.o
src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: initializer element is not constant
src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[0].type')
src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: initializer element is not constant
src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[1].type')
src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: initializer element is not constant
src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[2].type')

error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+juan.declet-barreto=mesaaz.gov at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+juan.declet-barreto=mesaaz.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Christian Heimes
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:21 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: guppy

Am 09.11.2011 20:08, schrieb Juan Declet-Barreto:
> I am trying to build guppy on Python 2.5, but am getting an "initializer element is not constant" error from gcc. I have found very little on this issue in the fora when looking for the general cause of the error; there is even less that is specific to a guppy build on Python 2.5.  
> 
> One recommendation I have seen is recompiling Python, but apparently that brings up the possibility of rendering it incompatible with non-standard packages like arcpy or arcgisscripting, which are critical to my application. 
> 
> I am using Cygwin. 

Please show us the full error message with context.

Are you using a Cygwin build of Python or a native Windows build? What GCC version and flavor are you using? I'm not sure if Cygwin is even supported. I recommend that you use MinGW with GCC 4.x if you can't afford VS 2003.

Christian

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov  9 15:38:02 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 21:38:02 +0100
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <j9eobb$2b0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 09.11.2011 20:38, schrieb Juan Declet-Barreto:
> I am using Cygwin build of Python2.6.  This Cygwin install has both a Cygwin gcc (versions 3.4.4 and 4.5.3) and mingw32 (3.4.4), as listed in lib/gcc/. 
> 
> I also tried the mingw32 shell separately, but I get the same results even when I pass the "-c mingw32" option. 
> 
> The error is reproduced below:
> 
> $ python setup.py build
> running build
> running build_py
> running build_ext
> building 'guppy.sets.setsc' extension
> gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I/usr/include/python2.6 -c src/sets/sets.c -o build/temp.cygwin-1.7.9-i686-2.6/src/sets/sets.o
> src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: initializer element is not constant
> src/sets/sets.c:68:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[0].type')
> src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: initializer element is not constant
> src/sets/sets.c:69:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[1].type')
> src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: initializer element is not constant
> src/sets/sets.c:70:5: error: (near initialization for `nysets_heapdefs[2].type')
> 
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

static NyHeapDef nysets_heapdefs[] = {
    {0, 0, (NyHeapDef_SizeGetter) mutbitset_indisize},
    {0, 0, 0, cplbitset_traverse},
    {0, 0, nodeset_indisize,  nodeset_traverse, nodeset_relate},
    {0}
};

    nysets_heapdefs[0].type = &NyMutBitSet_Type;
    nysets_heapdefs[1].type = &NyCplBitSet_Type;
    nysets_heapdefs[2].type = &NyNodeSet_Type;

The code looks fine to me and compiles with GCC 4.6. It seems your GCC
chokes on "nysets_heapdefs[0].type = &NyMutBitSet_Type;". It's not a
file local static but an extern declaration. Are you sure that you are
using a recent version of GCC 4.x? I had some issues with GCC 3.x in the
past. Cygwin has GCC 3.x as default gcc.

For Python 2.6 you can use the free VS 2008 Express version. I've
compiled guppy for 32bit Python 2.7 a couple of days ago w/o any issue



From nagle at animats.com  Wed Nov  9 17:16:23 2011
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:16:23 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <4ebafbb7$0$1724$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

On 11/7/2011 1:00 PM, OKB (not okblacke) wrote:
>      	I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):

     CPython is slow. It's a naive interpreter.  There's
almost no optimization during compilation.  Try PyPy
or Shed Skin.

				John Nagle


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 18:01:16 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKVAS+oJs7p2W+kyYQdSbaB4Hc1GZvy7qEeQKOeC7+kyQ@mail.gmail.com>

> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.

I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name. It reads like
insanity, and the justification was terrible.

Devin

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:44:18 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>> We have that stupid exec trick in the Python stdlib. It has to die.
>>
>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/6bf07db23445/Lib/collections/__init__.py#l240
>
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue3974
> http://blog.ccpgames.com/kristjan/2011/05/28/namedtuple-and-exec/
>
> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov  9 18:11:51 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Nov 2011 23:11:51 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
> 
> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name.

Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a 
well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.


> It reads like
> insanity, and the justification was terrible.

It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.

You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it. 
What do you think is going to happen? The exec call inside namedtuple is 
going to creep out of the module in the wee hours of the night, 
contaminating other functions and modules while you sleep? Be serious. If 
you have an actual concrete security vulnerability caused by the use of 
exec inside namedtuple, or some other bug, then say so. Otherwise, your 
paranoia is unjustified.



-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 18:15:07 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:15:07 +1100
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJKVAS+oJs7p2W+kyYQdSbaB4Hc1GZvy7qEeQKOeC7+kyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJKVAS+oJs7p2W+kyYQdSbaB4Hc1GZvy7qEeQKOeC7+kyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpaYTwD+-m2Cc_sF9R1VTEV=G-Tk2VWupVRd=fi4Sx9Kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>
> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name. It reads like
> insanity, and the justification was terrible.

It's said that code exists foremost for humans to read, and only
incidentally for computers to execute. I believe that this is inverted
for library code; as long as the _interface_ is clean, you can get
away with some messy internals, because it's going to be executed far
more often than actually read. Python programmers can use namedtuples
happily without knowing that the implementation uses exec.

The justification is, if I understand correctly, that the alternative
is worse. That's plenty of justification imho.

ChrisA


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  9 19:58:15 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:58:15 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 11/7/2011 11:32 PM, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
>>
>> I got trouble about easy_install command.
>>
>> My package:
>>
>> ? README.rst
>> ? setup.py
>> ? foobar/
>> ? foobar/__init__.py
>> ? foobar/data/
>> ? foobar/data/template.py
>>
>> In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
>> template data file (= not a python module file).
>
> Then why is it .py? If it is just data, use .txt. If .py, it should be
> python code run either directly or imported, though I suppose you could exec
> it. (I have no idea how renaming would affect your problem.)
>

I want to use template names according to language,
such as template.py, template.html, template.rst, template.js, and so on.

My question is "how to include non-python files into egg file?"
I may change file name suffix from '.py' to '.py.template',
but it doesn't solve my problem.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 20:26:56 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.

I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
have no reason to share your faith.

> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.

Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
other reason?

I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
seems handwavy). I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
"never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
thinks this is awful.

> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
> What do you think is going to happen?

I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.

Devin


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>>
>> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name.
>
> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>
>
>> It reads like
>> insanity, and the justification was terrible.
>
> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>
> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
> What do you think is going to happen? The exec call inside namedtuple is
> going to creep out of the module in the wee hours of the night,
> contaminating other functions and modules while you sleep? Be serious. If
> you have an actual concrete security vulnerability caused by the use of
> exec inside namedtuple, or some other bug, then say so. Otherwise, your
> paranoia is unjustified.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 20:35:02 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:35:02 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKw4duWsdNcGSCMOjGNr4a=_MAiVbkHH8y1ZRVecBaNiA@mail.gmail.com>

> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

Sorry for the double post, but I think I damaged my statement a
little in the edit process here. I have a hard time
reading the code, and the implications of using exec on how
initialization works is not obvious. I do believe that this solution
is significantly less readable than it would be in a language with
"real" macros, or using an alternate dict-based approach. I don't mean
to just say "it's different, therefore it's wrong" -- it takes more
than just being unusual (not that the unusualness helps).

Devin

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>
> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
> have no reason to share your faith.
>
>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>
> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
>
> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
> other reason?
>
> I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
> seems handwavy). I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
> "never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
> thinks this is awful.
>
>> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
>> What do you think is going to happen?
>
> I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.
>
> Devin
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:01:16 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>>
>>>> If it were someone other than Raymond Hettinger responsible for the use
>>>> of exec in namedtuple, I'd be a lot more suspicious of it.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to be less suspicious based on a name.
>>
>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>>
>>
>>> It reads like
>>> insanity, and the justification was terrible.
>>
>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>>
>> You're right to be cautious of exec. You're wrong to be phobic about it.
>> What do you think is going to happen? The exec call inside namedtuple is
>> going to creep out of the module in the wee hours of the night,
>> contaminating other functions and modules while you sleep? Be serious. If
>> you have an actual concrete security vulnerability caused by the use of
>> exec inside namedtuple, or some other bug, then say so. Otherwise, your
>> paranoia is unjustified.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 21:06:26 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 21:06:26 -0500
Subject: guppy
In-Reply-To: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
References: <3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF2783@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
	<j9ejpu$u79$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<3CB1190388197146B35D522652EAB501014CDF27DA@MESAMAIL01.acctcom.mesa>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbwmHoD6M+7OdSfstw-uC7Bv5pm69j0XTzvy5yCwbhzyzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Juan Declet-Barreto
<Juan.Declet-Barreto at mesaaz.gov> wrote:
> I am using Cygwin build of Python2.6. ?This Cygwin install has both a Cygwin gcc (versions 3.4.4 and 4.5.3) and mingw32 (3.4.4), as listed in lib/gcc/.
>
> I also tried the mingw32 shell separately, but I get the same results even when I pass the "-c mingw32" option.
>
> The error is reproduced below:
> ...
 It works for me.  guppy 0.1.9
gcc  4.5.3
Python 2.6.5
cygwin 1.7.9
[I have no idea if it works as intended. I don't use guppy.]


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 21:10:27 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:10:27 -0700
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=eQNYGGk8VYrmgJwFc0yDnZF_O=vK90BtidtNaPKX93w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
> other reason?

That's by design, not because of exec.  The names are supposed to be
actual Python names, things that can used to designate keyword
arguments ("MyTuple(foo=42)") or to retrieve elements using attribute
lookup ("my_tuple.foo").  Using "--" as a name would be a syntax error
in either of those cases.

Cheers,
Ian


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Wed Nov  9 22:25:06 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:25:06 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RspXRtfMk=8R+0tEzmdPNqFL320SrhT=sd_1hLmpJyakg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 11/7/2011 11:32 PM, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
>>>
>>> I got trouble about easy_install command.
>>>
>>> My package:
>>>
>>> ? README.rst
>>> ? setup.py
>>> ? foobar/
>>> ? foobar/__init__.py
>>> ? foobar/data/
>>> ? foobar/data/template.py
>>>
>>> In the above example, 'foobar/data/template.py' is just a
>>> template data file (= not a python module file).
>>
>> Then why is it .py? If it is just data, use .txt. If .py, it should be
>> python code run either directly or imported, though I suppose you could exec
>> it. (I have no idea how renaming would affect your problem.)
>>
>
> I want to use template names according to language,
> such as template.py, template.html, template.rst, template.js, and so on.
>
> My question is "how to include non-python files into egg file?"
> I may change file name suffix from '.py' to '.py.template',
> but it doesn't solve my problem.

I create sample project to explain my trouble.
Sample project source code:
https://bitbucket.org/kwatch/helloworld/src


When 'python setup.py sdist', all files are copied correctly.
https://bitbucket.org/kwatch/helloworld/wiki/python_setup.py_sdist

    $ python setup.py sdist
    ....
    hard linking helloworld/__init__.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld
    hard linking helloworld/foo.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld
    hard linking helloworld/sub/__init__.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld/sub
    hard linking helloworld/sub/bar.py -> HelloWorld-0.1.0/helloworld/sub
    ....


But when 'python setup.py bdist_egg', some files are not copied.
https://bitbucket.org/kwatch/helloworld/wiki/python_setup.py_bdist_egg

    $ python setup.py bdist   # 'helloworld/sub/{__init__,bar}.py' are
not copied!
    ....
    copying build/lib/helloworld/__init__.py ->
build/bdist.macosx-10.4-x86_64/egg/helloworld
    copying build/lib/helloworld/foo.py ->
build/bdist.macosx-10.4-x86_64/egg/helloworld
    ....


Could you help me?

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 22:50:42 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 11:26?am, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
> have no reason to share your faith.

But you're happy to accept the opinions of random posters saying "exec
is evil"? (And it's really not a good idea to be proud of your
ignorance...)

> Like, why can't "--" be a name?

Why would you ever want it to be?

> I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
> seems handwavy).

As opposed to your in-depth critique?

> I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
> "never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
> thinks this is awful.

No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
something for which they're providing no alternative implementation.
You can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have
echoed it, but you won't actually do anything about it.

> I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.

Just as I thought.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 22:52:35 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<4ebafbb7$0$1724$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <8f077318-a150-4ca2-b6e6-5f8dfcd85d8d@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 8:16?am, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> ? ? ?CPython is slow. It's a naive interpreter. ?There's
> almost no optimization during compilation. ?Try PyPy
> or Shed Skin.

Sometimes people need to understand the performance characteristics of
CPython because it's what they have to use. Pointing them at
alternative implementations isn't an answer.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 23:40:25 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 23:40:25 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJoOSLVwhoz81hBeK4XO8aStEGjUW8WR5BSCk7Y02PvvA@mail.gmail.com>

> (And it's really not a good idea to be proud of your
> ignorance...)

I wasn't bragging.

> But you're happy to accept the opinions of random posters saying "exec
> is evil"?
[...]
> As opposed to your in-depth critique?
[...]
> No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
> something for which they're providing no alternative implementation.
> You can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have
> echoed it, but you won't actually do anything about it.

I said it was bad because I found it difficult to read and it was
"weird". I also mentioned that it's conceivable that it has security
flaws, but that's not as big a deal. I believe I also said that it was
bad because it resulted in """arbitrary""" limitations in
functionality. So, yes, I did say why it's bad, and it's not just
because other people say so. My reasons are weak, but that's a
different story.

I also mentioned the alternative implementation, which uses a dict.
There was even already a patch submitted to make namedtuple work this
way, so I don't think I had to be too specific. R. Hettinger rejected
this patch, which was what I was referring to when I was referring to
handwaviness.

So, no.

> Just as I thought.

Woo condescension.

Devin

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:50 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 11:26?am, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
>> have no reason to share your faith.
>
> But you're happy to accept the opinions of random posters saying "exec
> is evil"? (And it's really not a good idea to be proud of your
> ignorance...)
>
>> Like, why can't "--" be a name?
>
> Why would you ever want it to be?
>
>> I don't like the use of exec, and I don't like the justification (it
>> seems handwavy).
>
> As opposed to your in-depth critique?
>
>> I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying
>> "never EVER use exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that
>> thinks this is awful.
>
> No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
> something for which they're providing no alternative implementation.
> You can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have
> echoed it, but you won't actually do anything about it.
>
>> I think somebody will read it and think this is a good idea.
>
> Just as I thought.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From paulalgray71 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 00:29:56 2011
From: paulalgray71 at gmail.com (paula gray)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:29:56 -0500
Subject: mailing list
Message-ID: <CAOxGtsaRY704J+WU6waKcLwW1WUjAAw3+RNOAcjTbAJoZch3MA@mail.gmail.com>


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From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 00:32:24 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:32:24 +1100
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Rt6gdYH6KU2=iZjQ94N1eL7EkhGVCBJZWPLyroUmj2BuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<j9bup0$ppo$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAFTm5RsXEZOnZ8-w3K6GpxkG788RRUS1GV15FL6Sw2KhrWgcPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrKtnrC0UPOvLUATru8x6PWU9hHbTTRPizJnX=ijmutVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> I want to use template names according to language,
> such as template.py, template.html, template.rst, template.js, and so on.
>

You may have another problem here. Everyone and everything that looks
at these will expect them to be Python, HTML, etc files. If they're
not, it may cause confusion in other ways.

Can you switch it around, py.template and html.template etc?

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 02:35:48 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 07:35:48 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2f026694-0905-49f8-bcae-7e4d55df5d49@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ebb7ed3$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:50:42 -0800, alex23 wrote:

>> I pointed this out in a thread full of people saying "never EVER use
>> exec this way", so it's obviously not just me that thinks this is
>> awful.
> 
> No, instead you have a thread full of people happy to criticise
> something for which they're providing no alternative implementation. You
> can't exactly say _why_ it's bad, other than other people have echoed
> it, but you won't actually do anything about it.

In fairness there are alternative implementations. They are not identical 
to the version using exec. There is at least one use-case for *not* using 
exec, even at the cost of functionality: a restricted Python environment 
without exec.

On the other hand, a restricted Python without exec is not actually 
Python.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 02:48:49 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 07:48:49 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
> 
> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
> have no reason to share your faith.

That's fine.

I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could be 
an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for 
"Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some fly-by 
Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the standard library 
when no-one was looking :)

The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should tell 
you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable technique. 
That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are still 
people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax -- 
controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid 
certain idioms.


Are you familiar with the idea of "code smell"?

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/05/code-smells.html
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html

I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't mean 
it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before accepting 
it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use exec" and 
"You SHOULD NOT use exec".

See RFC 2119 if you are unclear on the difference:

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt



>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
> 
> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out what's
> going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the heck
> certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going on is
> otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be found 
in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out parts of the 
code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.

Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often being 
harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are hard too.



> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on the
> input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some other
> reason?

Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so 
namedtuple doesn't let you try:

t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
print(t.foo)
print(t.--)
print(t.bar)




-- 
Steven


From simeon.chaos at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 03:35:06 2011
From: simeon.chaos at gmail.com (Simeon Chaos)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:35:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: dao 0.7.4 released
Message-ID: <20d8f55c-6803-4574-92c8-1704b4918b99@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

----------------------------
What's new in dao 0.7.4?
----------------------------

*Release date:  2011-11-10

* new in code:
  * quasiquote, unquote, unquote_slicing is implemented.
  * directly evaluate sexpression in solver
  * some builtins for define, set and get global, outer and local var
  * lisp style macro: expand and eval on UserMacro


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 03:51:10 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:51:10 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could be
> an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some fly-by
> Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the standard library
> when no-one was looking :)

Alright, I know *something* about him. I knew he was a core developer,
and that he was responsible for namedtuple. I also discovered (when I
looked up his activestate profile) some other stuff he wrote. I don't
really know anything about him outside of that -- i.e. I have no idea
what parts of Python he's contributed things to in the past that could
make me go, "oh, wow, _he_ did that?" and so on. I don't really feel
like a few minutes research would give me the right feel, it generally
has to come up organically.

Anyway, if we step back, for a trustworthy developer who wrote
something seemingly-crazy, I should be willing to suspend judgement
until I see the relevant facts about something that the developer
might have and I don't. But he did give the facts,
( http://bugs.python.org/issue3974 again) , and I'm not convinced.

Things can go terribly wrong when abusing exec e.g.
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/bugs/568206 . That
shouldn't ever happen with a function such as this. exec opens doors
that should not be opened without a really good reason, and those
reasons don't strike me that way.

> The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should tell
> you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable technique.

I've seen core developers rail against the namedtuple source code. In
fairness, I don't believe exec was the subject of the rant --
nonetheless its presence isn't evidence of general support, and even
if it were, my tastes have always differed from that of the core
developers.

> That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are still
> people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax --
> controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid
> certain idioms.

I think there's somewhat a difference in magnitude of objections
between using exec as a hacked-together macro system, and using "x if
flag else y" when if statements would do.

If the exec trick is reasonable, we should normalize it in the form of
a real, useful macro system, that can protect us against exec's many
flaws (code injection, accidental syntax errors, etc.) and tell future
programmers how to do this safely and in a semi-approvable way.

> I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't mean
> it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before accepting
> it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use exec" and
> "You SHOULD NOT use exec".

Do I really need a second look? I see exec, I wonder what it's doing.
It isn't doing anything that couldn't be done subjectively better with
e.g. a dict, so I disapprove of the usage of exec.

> There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be found
> in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out parts of the
> code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.

There's more overhead going back and forth to the template, and
there's related things that I can't be sure are because of exec or
because of design decisions, etc.  It makes code reading more
challenging, even if it's still possible. That said, sure, some of
these are problems with whatever else he's done.

> Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often being
> harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are hard too.

And on the other other hand, Python lacks explicit support for both
pointers and code generation (unless you count strings and ctypes).

> Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> namedtuple doesn't let you try:
>
> t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> print(t.foo)
> print(t.--)
> print(t.bar)

'--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
namedtuple in certain ways?

Devin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is a
>>> well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is doing.
>>
>> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so I
>> have no reason to share your faith.
>
> That's fine.
>
> I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could be
> an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some fly-by
> Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the standard library
> when no-one was looking :)
>
> The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should tell
> you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable technique.
> That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are still
> people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax --
> controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid
> certain idioms.
>
>
> Are you familiar with the idea of "code smell"?
>
> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/05/code-smells.html
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html
>
> I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't mean
> it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before accepting
> it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use exec" and
> "You SHOULD NOT use exec".
>
> See RFC 2119 if you are unclear on the difference:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
>
>
>
>>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
>>
>> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out what's
>> going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the heck
>> certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going on is
>> otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
>> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
>
> There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be found
> in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out parts of the
> code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.
>
> Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often being
> harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are hard too.
>
>
>
>> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on the
>> input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some other
>> reason?
>
> Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> namedtuple doesn't let you try:
>
> t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> print(t.foo)
> print(t.--)
> print(t.bar)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov 10 04:08:12 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Hey. I don't know the details, but your setup.py needs to use either the 'package_data' or the 'data_files' entry in the dict you pass to setup. These can specify files you want included in the sdist which aren't package files.

There are many complications with using them though. One of them in particular (I don't remember which one) installs the files you specify in a different place depending on whether the user is installing the sdist from local files (python setup.py install) or using pip, so be sure to test both ways. 


From tartley at tartley.com  Thu Nov 10 04:08:12 2011
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Hey. I don't know the details, but your setup.py needs to use either the 'package_data' or the 'data_files' entry in the dict you pass to setup. These can specify files you want included in the sdist which aren't package files.

There are many complications with using them though. One of them in particular (I don't remember which one) installs the files you specify in a different place depending on whether the user is installing the sdist from local files (python setup.py install) or using pip, so be sure to test both ways. 


From baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 05:51:15 2011
From: baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com (Baptiste Lepilleur)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:51:15 +0100
Subject: How to derive from datetime.timezone class?
Message-ID: <CAGyWicAZ2v6pZ94JGRaaSScUd2UcA_YZ-b3q6E_3kxM7-7bdBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I want to sub-class the datetime.timezone class, but when I derive from
datetime.timezone I get an error message "TypeError: type
'datetime.timezone' is not an acceptable base type".

Why do I get this error? Is there something specific to do to avoid it?

Below is an example of code:

Python 3.2.2 (default, Sep  4 2011, 09:51:08) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import datetime
>>> datetime.timezone
<class 'datetime.timezone'>
>>> class Utc(datetime.timezone):
...     pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: type 'datetime.timezone' is not an acceptable base type

Baptiste.
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 08:15:39 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:15:39 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
Message-ID: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings:

As you know, there are several kinds of relationships between classes in
the UML -- dependency, association, aggregation, composition.
Q1. Is there any article or code example on its implementation in python?
Q2. For example, in composition model, the container object may be
responsible for the handling of embedded objects' lifecycle. What is the
python pattern of such implementation?
would it be adding __del__ to the container class to del embedded objects
or something else?

Thanks!
Biao
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From gheskett at wdtv.com  Thu Nov 10 08:20:54 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:20:54 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201111100820.54520.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:13:13 AM Devin Jeanpierre did opine:

> > I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could
> > be an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> > "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some
> > fly-by Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the
> > standard library when no-one was looking :)
> 
> Alright, I know *something* about him. I knew he was a core developer,
> and that he was responsible for namedtuple. I also discovered (when I
> looked up his activestate profile) some other stuff he wrote. I don't
> really know anything about him outside of that -- i.e. I have no idea
> what parts of Python he's contributed things to in the past that could
> make me go, "oh, wow, _he_ did that?" and so on. I don't really feel
> like a few minutes research would give me the right feel, it generally
> has to come up organically.
> 
> Anyway, if we step back, for a trustworthy developer who wrote
> something seemingly-crazy, I should be willing to suspend judgement
> until I see the relevant facts about something that the developer
> might have and I don't. But he did give the facts,
> ( http://bugs.python.org/issue3974 again) , and I'm not convinced.
> 
> Things can go terribly wrong when abusing exec e.g.
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/bugs/568206 . That
> shouldn't ever happen with a function such as this. exec opens doors
> that should not be opened without a really good reason, and those
> reasons don't strike me that way.
 
If, in the sense that this python 'exec' essentially duplicates the bash 
version, then I have found it quite useful, it was taught to me several 
years ago by another teacher who was a long time Solaris fan, and if it 
were to go away, I have several bash scripts running here right now that 
would require major re-writes.

> > The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should
> > tell you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable
> > technique.

Well, its certainly not a new concept.  All the major 'shell interpreters' 
have it, why not python?

> I've seen core developers rail against the namedtuple source code. In
> fairness, I don't believe exec was the subject of the rant --
> nonetheless its presence isn't evidence of general support, and even
> if it were, my tastes have always differed from that of the core
> developers.
> 
> > That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But there are
> > still people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator syntax --
> > controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason to avoid
> > certain idioms.
> 
> I think there's somewhat a difference in magnitude of objections
> between using exec as a hacked-together macro system, and using "x if
> flag else y" when if statements would do.
> 
> If the exec trick is reasonable, we should normalize it in the form of
> a real, useful macro system, that can protect us against exec's many
> flaws (code injection, accidental syntax errors, etc.) and tell future
> programmers how to do this safely and in a semi-approvable way.
> 
> > I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't
> > mean it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before
> > accepting it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use
> > exec" and "You SHOULD NOT use exec".
> 
> Do I really need a second look? I see exec, I wonder what it's doing.
> It isn't doing anything that couldn't be done subjectively better with
> e.g. a dict, so I disapprove of the usage of exec.
> 
> > There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be
> > found in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out
> > parts of the code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.
> 
> There's more overhead going back and forth to the template, and
> there's related things that I can't be sure are because of exec or
> because of design decisions, etc.  It makes code reading more
> challenging, even if it's still possible. That said, sure, some of
> these are problems with whatever else he's done.
> 
> > Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often
> > being harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are
> > hard too.
> 
> And on the other other hand, Python lacks explicit support for both
> pointers and code generation (unless you count strings and ctypes).
> 
> > Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> > namedtuple doesn't let you try:
> > 
> > t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> > print(t.foo)
> > print(t.--)
> > print(t.bar)
> 
> '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
> attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
> setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
> limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
> prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
> this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
> namedtuple in certain ways?
> 
> Devin
> 
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> 
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:26:56 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> >>> Neither am I. I am less suspicious based on a reputation. Raymond is
> >>> a well-known, trusted senior Python developer who knows what he is
> >>> doing.
> >> 
> >> I don't really know anything about him or why people respect him, so
> >> I have no reason to share your faith.
> > 
> > That's fine.
> > 
> > I don't expect you to take my word on it (and why should you, I could
> > be an idiot or a sock-puppet), but you could always try googling for
> > "Raymond Hettinger python" and see what comes up. He is not some
> > fly-by Python coder who snuck some dubious n00b code into the
> > standard library when no-one was looking :)
> > 
> > The mere fact that it was accepted into the standard library should
> > tell you that core Python developers consider it an acceptable
> > technique. That's not to say the technique is uncontroversial. But
> > there are still people who dislike "x if flag else y" and @decorator
> > syntax -- controversy, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a reason
> > to avoid certain idioms.
> > 
> > 
> > Are you familiar with the idea of "code smell"?
> > 
> > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/05/code-smells.html
> > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html
> > 
> > I would agree that the use of exec is a code smell. But that doesn't
> > mean it is wrong or bad, merely that it needs a second look before
> > accepting it. There's a world of difference between "You MUST NOT use
> > exec" and "You SHOULD NOT use exec".
> > 
> > See RFC 2119 if you are unclear on the difference:
> > 
> > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
> > 
> >>> It reads fine, and the justification is perfectly valid.
> >> 
> >> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> >> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> >> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> >> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a
> >> normal approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
> > 
> > There's nothing inside the template being exec'ed that couldn't be
> > found in non-exec code. So if you're having trouble figuring out
> > parts of the code, the presence of the exec is not the problem.
> > 
> > Having said that, dynamic code generation is well known for often
> > being harder to read than "ordinary" code. But then, pointers are
> > hard too.
> > 
> >> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> >> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there
> >> some other reason?
> > 
> > Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
> > namedtuple doesn't let you try:
> > 
> > t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
> > print(t.foo)
> > print(t.--)
> > print(t.bar)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Steven
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
>Ever heard of .cshrc?
That's a city in Bosnia.  Right?
(Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands.)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 08:26:37 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:26:37 +1100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
> For example, in composition model, the container object may be responsible
> for the handling of embedded objects' lifecycle. What is the python pattern
> of such implementation?

Here's an example:

class Test(object):
  def __init__(self):
    self.lst=[1,2,3]
    self.map={"foo":12,"bar":34}

This is a container that has a list and a dictionary in it. When an
instance of the container is destroyed, its list and dictionary will
be destroyed too (assuming nobody's made other references to them).
You don't need to code anything explicitly for that.

Chris Angelico


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 08:58:41 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:58:41 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

Firstly thanks for your quick reply.

1. Your code example gives a point, but i may not reach my question yet,
maybe because i did not make myself understood yet. Here is a more detail
example question.

I have a classes sets described by UML, which could be refered as Cls_A,
Cls_B, CLs_C, Cls_D, Cls_E. There are four relationship between
them--dependency, association, aggregation, composition. What i need to do
is define all of the classes by python, and,of course, the class definition
should describe there relationship correctly.
For example, implement composition relationship between Cls_A and Cls_B,
which may means a instance of Cls_B is created and destroyed by a Cls_A
instance, My code may be like this(not sure since i am not quite familiar
with python yet):

Cls_a:
    def __init__(self):
        self.at1 = 1

Cls_b:
    def __init__(self):
        self.com1 = Cls_a()
    def __del__(self):
        del self.com1
Is it a right implementation for composition?

and i need also do other relationship definition into class, like
dependency, association, aggregation...

Is there any article or code example on the relationships implementation?


Thanks!
Biao


2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > For example, in composition model, the container object may be
> responsible
> > for the handling of embedded objects' lifecycle. What is the python
> pattern
> > of such implementation?
>
> Here's an example:
>
> class Test(object):
>  def __init__(self):
>    self.lst=[1,2,3]
>    self.map={"foo":12,"bar":34}
>
> This is a container that has a list and a dictionary in it. When an
> instance of the container is destroyed, its list and dictionary will
> be destroyed too (assuming nobody's made other references to them).
> You don't need to code anything explicitly for that.
>
> Chris Angelico
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:09:07 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:09:07 +1100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cls_a:
> ? ? def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.at1 = 1
> Cls_b:
> ? ? def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.com1 = Cls_a()
> ? ? def __del__(self):
> ? ? ? ? del self.com1
> Is it a right implementation for composition?

Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python (at
least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the Cls_b is.

Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much simpler:
everything's an object, and you have references to that object. A
named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an object
is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it references
lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those objects
get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with when you
grok it.

ChrisA


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:25:35 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:25:35 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Cls_a:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.at1 = 1
> > Cls_b:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
> >     def __del__(self):
> >         del self.com1
> > Is it a right implementation for composition?
>
> Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python (at
> least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
> reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
> reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the Cls_b is.
>
> Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much simpler:
> everything's an object, and you have references to that object. A
> named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an object
> is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it references
> lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those objects
> get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
> difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with when you
> grok it.
>

Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and aggregation in
my real word, and my application really care this since it is trying to
simulate this real world model, so my system should track this
difference accurately,
otherwise the system may not work well.

For example,
a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation. My app
must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body instance, if
the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
 b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still can
live even the auto is dead."

Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living objects.



> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:31:36 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:31:36 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/10 Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>

>
>
> 2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Cls_a:
>> >     def __init__(self):
>> >         self.at1 = 1
>> > Cls_b:
>> >     def __init__(self):
>> >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
>> >     def __del__(self):
>> >         del self.com1
>> > Is it a right implementation for composition?
>>
>> Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python (at
>> least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
>> reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
>> reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the Cls_b is.
>>
>> Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much simpler:
>> everything's an object, and you have references to that object. A
>> named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an object
>> is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it references
>> lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those objects
>> get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
>> difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with when you
>> grok it.
>>
>
> Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and aggregation in
> my real word, and my application really care this since it is trying to
> simulate this real world model, so my system should track this difference accurately,
> otherwise the system may not work well.
>
> For example,
> a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation. My
> app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body instance,
> if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
>  b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still can
> live even the auto is dead."
>
> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living objects.
>
So lifecycle should be ensured by class definition. I originally thought
this topic would be talked somewhere since many python OOP designer should
have met this, or am i wrong on some point?


>
>
>> ChrisA
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From iamforufriends at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 09:35:34 2011
From: iamforufriends at gmail.com (sweet girl)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 06:35:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: she want a boy friend for dating
Message-ID: <b3ff60c0-70e8-4d6b-82f0-1b8b0249b8e5@k38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

she want a boy friend for dating

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From vs at it.uu.se  Thu Nov 10 09:47:43 2011
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:47:43 +0100
Subject: Agent-based modeling
Message-ID: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>

Python seems like a good language to use for agent-based modeling. However, 
before starting to work on a Python package for this, I would be very interested 
in knowing about any existing Python code for agent-based modeling.

--V
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 10:16:14 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:16:14 +0800
Subject: Agent-based modeling
In-Reply-To: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>
References: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDpXktGZy4mR+yvxPtAk22OgjAzdfdbavyhrneuBAFoAUQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/10 Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se>

>  Python seems like a good language to use for agent-based modeling.
> However, before starting to work on a Python package for this, I would be
> very interested in knowing about any existing Python code for agent-based
> modeling.
>

I am assuming you are talking about the pattern design -- agent pattern,
right?


>
>
> --V
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 10:44:29 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:44:29 +0000
Subject: simple import hook
Message-ID: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>

So I would really like to accomplish the following:
run a program normally and keep track of all the imports that were 
actually done.

I studied the PEP 302, but I'm still a bit confused about how to do it.

I thought that instead of implementing everything I could just record 
the request
and then delegate to the "imp" module, so I did this:

class MyLoader(object):
     """
     Loader object
     """

     def __init__(self):
         self.loaded = set()

     def find_module(self, module_name, package=None):
         print("requesting %s" % module_name)
         self.loaded.add(module_name)
         return self

     def load_module(self, fullname):
         #XXX: the find_module is actually doing nothing, since
         # everything is delegated to the "imp" module
         fp, pathname, stuff = imp.find_module(fullname)
         imp.load_module(fullname, fp, pathname, stuff)

     myl = MyLoader()
     sys.meta_path.append(myl)
     try:
         import random
         import os
         print(random.random())



Which doesn't work, and very strangely it doesn't even look deterministic!
Sometimes it stops at first import sometimes it's able to do a few of them.
How can that be?

And how could I do solve my problem?


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Thu Nov 10 11:09:08 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:09:08 +0000
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>

On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 22:25 +0800, Jerry Zhang wrote:
> 
> 
> 2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>         On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang
>         <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
>         > Cls_a:
>         >     def __init__(self):
>         >         self.at1 = 1
>         > Cls_b:
>         >     def __init__(self):
>         >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
>         >     def __del__(self):
>         >         del self.com1
>         > Is it a right implementation for composition?
>         
>         
>         Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python
>         (at
>         least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
>         reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
>         reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the
>         Cls_b is.
>         
>         Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much
>         simpler:
>         everything's an object, and you have references to that
>         object. A
>         named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an
>         object
>         is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it
>         references
>         lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those
>         objects
>         get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
>         difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with
>         when you
>         grok it.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
> aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this since
> it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system should
> track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may not work
> well. 

You might want to look into weak references:
http://docs.python.org/library/weakref.html

Although I agree with Chris that it sounds like your code might be
easier with a change of perspective (I've not done much UML, but the way
you're describing things sounds like a java-ish way of looking at it to
me)

> For example, 
> a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
> My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
> instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
>  b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still
> can live even the auto is dead."

That behaviour isn't really hard-coded as part of the language in
python, as it's not required for memory management in the same way it
would be in C++ or langauges without GCs.

As long as no objects other than body objects hold a reference to arm
objects then the arm object will be deleted.

For The tyre object to be deleted when the auto object is deleted, there
would have to be no references left to the tyre object. If there aren't
any references then you can't know if it exists or not anyway, so the
distinction isn't useful.

> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
> objects. 

The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.




From k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 11:34:07 2011
From: k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com (SAHITHI)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:34:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WORLD BEST PICS
Message-ID: <9094454c-45ad-45d4-834d-43cbf645df87@i13g2000prg.googlegroups.com>


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From vs at it.uu.se  Thu Nov 10 12:15:37 2011
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:15:37 +0100
Subject: Agent-based modeling
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDpXktGZy4mR+yvxPtAk22OgjAzdfdbavyhrneuBAFoAUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EBBE40F.9030009@it.uu.se>
	<CANVwdDpXktGZy4mR+yvxPtAk22OgjAzdfdbavyhrneuBAFoAUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC06B9.6030201@it.uu.se>

On 10-Nov-2011 16:16, Jerry Zhang wrote:
>
>
> 2011/11/10 Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se <mailto:vs at it.uu.se>>
>
>     Python seems like a good language to use for agent-based modeling.
>     However, before starting to work on a Python package for this, I would be
>     very interested in knowing about any existing Python code for agent-based
>     modeling.
>
>
> I am assuming you are talking about the pattern design -- agent pattern, right?
>
>
>
>     --V
>
>     --
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
Sorry Jerry if my email was unclear.

I am referring to agent-based modeling as defined at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent-based_model
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From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Nov 10 12:23:15 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:23:15 +0100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
Message-ID: <j9h1a3$s1$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 10.11.2011 17:09, schrieb Tim Wintle:
>> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
>> objects. 
> 
> The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
> an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
> delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.

That's not entirely correct. In fact you *CAN* delete references to
objects that are stored in ZODB. An unreferenced object is no longer
accessible from future transactions. The object is only available from
the transaction history log and thus still stored in the database file
until the ZODB is packed. Once the ZODB is packed, all unreferenced
objects are gone for good.

ZODB is much more than a simple pickle jar. It's a transparent and
poweful object database that behaves like an ordinary tree of Python
objects.



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 12:46:07 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:46:07 +0000
Subject: simple import hook
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC0DDF.9000708@gmail.com>

On 11/10/2011 05:02 PM, Eric Snow wrote:
>
> Yeah, I'm working on a reference for imports in Python.  They're just
> a little too mysterious relative to the rest of the language.  But
> it's not too helpful yet.  In the meantime...
Yes it's quite mysterious, and it's actually not as hard as it looks..
Anyway I'm glad to say that I reached what I basically wanted.

This script actually compiles the code and runs it, reporting the 
imports done in the end.
Any suggestion is still welcome :)

"""
This script is used to analyse the imports which are actually being done
"""
import argparse
import os
import sys

class CollectImports(object):
     """
     Loader object
     """

     def __init__(self):
         self.loaded = set()

     def __str__(self):
         return str(self.loaded)

     def find_module(self, module_name, package=None):
         print("requesting %s" % module_name)
         self.loaded.add(module_name)


if __name__ == '__main__':
     parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description='analyse the imports 
made')
     parser.add_argument('script')
     parser.add_argument('arguments', nargs='*')

     ns = parser.parse_args()

     progname = ns.script
     sys.path.insert(0, os.path.dirname(progname))

     cl = CollectImports()
     # TODO: maybe we can create a with clause also for this thing
     sys.meta_path.append(cl)

     # TODO: catch the exit signal and present the output
     code = compile(open(progname).read(), progname, 'exec')
     exec(code)
     print("imports done: %s" % str(cl))

> That _is_ pretty strange.
>
> After what I recommended above, are you still getting the wierdness?
> It could just be a side-effect of your use of the imp functions. in
> load_module(), so getting rid of it would help.
>
> What version of Python are you using?  If not 2.7 or 3.2, do you get
> the same problem when you run the code under one of those latest
> versions?
>
> Even when the number of imports is different, are they always in the
> same order?  Highly unlikely, but if you say no then this is extra
> fishy.
>

It was python 2.7 on Arch-linux, but thanks to your suggestions 
everything was actually fixed..


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:06:18 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:06:18 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Tim Wintle <tim.wintle at teamrubber.com>

> On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 22:25 +0800, Jerry Zhang wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2011/11/10 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
> >         On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Jerry Zhang
> >         <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
> >         > Cls_a:
> >         >     def __init__(self):
> >         >         self.at1 = 1
> >         > Cls_b:
> >         >     def __init__(self):
> >         >         self.com1 = Cls_a()
> >         >     def __del__(self):
> >         >         del self.com1
> >         > Is it a right implementation for composition?
> >
> >
> >         Yes, except that you don't need to explicitly del it. Python
> >         (at
> >         least, CPython) is reference-counted; your Cls_b object owns a
> >         reference to the Cls_a object, so (assuming nothing else has a
> >         reference) that Cls_a will be happily cleaned up when the
> >         Cls_b is.
> >
> >         Python doesn't really talk about "composition" etc. It's much
> >         simpler:
> >         everything's an object, and you have references to that
> >         object. A
> >         named variable is a reference to some object. A member on an
> >         object
> >         is, too. Whenever an object is expired, all objects that it
> >         references
> >         lose one reference, and if that was the sole reference, those
> >         objects
> >         get expired too. It's a change of thinking, perhaps, but not a
> >         difficult one in my opinion; and it's so easy to work with
> >         when you
> >         grok it.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
> > aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this since
> > it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system should
> > track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may not work
> > well.
>
> You might want to look into weak references:
> http://docs.python.org/library/weakref.html
>
> Although I agree with Chris that it sounds like your code might be
> easier with a change of perspective (I've not done much UML, but the way
> you're describing things sounds like a java-ish way of looking at it to
> me)
>
> > For example,
> > a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
> > My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
> > instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
> >  b. the Cls_auto and the Cls_tyre may be aggregation. "One tyre still
> > can live even the auto is dead."
>
> That behaviour isn't really hard-coded as part of the language in
> python, as it's not required for memory management in the same way it
> would be in C++ or langauges without GCs.
>
> As long as no objects other than body objects hold a reference to arm
> objects then the arm object will be deleted.
>
> For The tyre object to be deleted when the auto object is deleted, there
> would have to be no references left to the tyre object. If there aren't
> any references then you can't know if it exists or not anyway, so the
> distinction isn't useful.
>

I just did an example code to describe what i am looking for.
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
# ...

class Head:
    def __init__(self):
        self.size = 5

class Hat:
    def __init__(self):
        self.color = red
    def took_on(self, body):
        self.body = body
    def took_off(self, body):
        del self.body

class Body:
    def __init__(self):
        self.head = Head()
    def take_on_hat(self, hat):
        self.hat = hat
        hat.take_on(self)
    def take_off_hat(self):
        hat.take_off(self)
        del self.hat
    def go_to_heaven(self):
        take_off_hat(self)
        del self.head
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

In this example, Head and body are COMPOSITION, which means
a. A head only live with one body, it can not live with other body. It can
not even live without body
b. If the body go to die, the head also go to die.

Body and Hat are aggregation, which means
a. A hat live isolate with body, its life circle is isolate
b. A hat only live with one body at a specific time, it can not live with
two body(association would be more than one)

So when the body die, the clean dead should include take_off Hat and del
Head, otherwise, the code definition is not prciselly describing the
relationship, which may cause a mess system, for example, a body has dead,
but one hat is still associated with a unreferenced body.
A point on this issue, maybe python is smart that the take_off_hat(self) is
not needed in go_to_heaven() method(i am not sure yet), but the del
self.head is sure needed, otherwise, we will have a no_body_head in our
ZODB, that is extremely horrible, right?

All of these points one, the four kinds of class relationship in UML
precisely describe the real word, if the implementation is not precisely,
you will have unexpected results.
Of course, python may be smart to achieve such goal with less effort, that
is why i am asking for a code example for all of the four relationships.

>
> > Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
> > objects.
>
> The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
> an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
> delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.
>
>
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:13:37 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:13:37 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <j9h1a3$s1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop> <j9h1a3$s1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDob6BOsA--8VoVrdCJLHMC49QV05SOeduGFkgnFFS+=aA@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de>

> Am 10.11.2011 17:09, schrieb Tim Wintle:
> >> Meanwhile, I have a ZODB running, which stores all the living
> >> objects.
> >
> > The ZODB is append only and stores all objects. Deleting references to
> > an object (which would causes deletion of standard python objects) won't
> > delete it from the zodb, it'll just delete the references.
>
> That's not entirely correct. In fact you *CAN* delete references to
> objects that are stored in ZODB. An unreferenced object is no longer
> accessible from future transactions. The object is only available from
> the transaction history log and thus still stored in the database file
> until the ZODB is packed. Once the ZODB is packed, all unreferenced
> objects are gone for good.
>
> ZODB is much more than a simple pickle jar. It's a transparent and
> poweful object database that behaves like an ordinary tree of Python
> objects.
>
>
I am verifying the ZODB solution, not clear yet, anyway, your points
regarding this sounds reasonable to me.
i am almost sure the python and ZODB designer has already did a good job to
make us handle such case easily, all i am trying to do is find the right
path.

Thanks a lot.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From numansenm at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:25:41 2011
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Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>

Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.

Certainly it's a Python pattern -- it's what you do to dynamically 
generate code.


> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
> other reason?

'--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and 
everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.


 > '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
 > attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
 > setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
 > limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
 > prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
 > this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
 > namedtuple in certain ways?

So you think

     somevar = getattr(my_named_tuple, '--')

is more readable than

     somevar = my_named_tuple.spam

?

~Ethan~


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 10 13:56:25 2011
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (tkpmep at hotmail.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Working with databases (ODBC and ORMs) in Python 3.2
Message-ID: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

We are in the process of trying to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.2
with a view to making a 5-10 year commitment to the right platform,
and would appreciate some guidance on how best to connect to SQL
databases in 3.2. ceODBC 2.01 provides an ODBC driver for Python 3.2,
does anyone have experience using it? Also, are there any ORMs (object
relational mapper)s that work well with 3,2?

Thanks in advance

Thomas Philips


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 10 14:25:40 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:25:40 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2580.1320888461.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb81e1$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+0EW1gNyFzVuhFkydAvHxrZCco-+CNK2h9LbxXbU4e6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9h8fp$ain$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2011 3:51 AM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> Because Python doesn't allow "--" to be an attribute name, and so
>> namedtuple doesn't let you try:
>>
>> t = namedtuple("T", "foo -- bar")(1, 2, 3)
>> print(t.foo)
>> print(t.--)
>> print(t.bar)
>
> '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
> attribute setting (e.g. function objects).

ob.-- is not valid Python because '--' is not a name.

 > Of course, you need to use setattr() and getattr().

I consider the fact that CPython's setattr accepts non-name strings to 
be a bit of a bug. Or if you will, leniency for speed. (A unicode name 
check in Py3 would be much more expensive than an ascii name check in 
Py2.) I would consider it legitimate for another implementation to only 
accept names and to use a specialized name_dict for attribute dictionaries.

So I consider it quite legitimate for namedtuple to requires real names 
for the fields. The whole point is to allow ob.name access to tuple 
members. Someone who plans to use set/getattr with arbitrary strings 
should just use a dict instead of a tuple.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Nov 10 14:32:24 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:32:24 -0500
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
	<CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just did an example code to describe what i am looking for.
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> # ...
>
> class Head:
> ??? def __init__(self):
> ??????? self.size = 5
>
> class Hat:
> ??? def __init__(self):
> ??????? self.color = red
> ??? def took_on(self, body):
> ??????? self.body = body
> ??? def took_off(self, body):
> ??????? del self.body
>
> class Body:
> ??? def __init__(self):
> ??????? self.head = Head()
> ??? def take_on_hat(self, hat):
> ??????? self.hat = hat
> ??????? hat.take_on(self)
> ??? def take_off_hat(self):
> ??????? hat.take_off(self)
> ??????? del self.hat
> ??? def go_to_heaven(self):
> ??????? take_off_hat(self)
> ??????? del self.head
> /*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
>
> In this example, Head and body are COMPOSITION, which means
> a. A head only live with one body, it can not live with other body. It can
> not even live without body
> b. If the body go to die, the head also go to die.
>
> Body and Hat are aggregation, which means
> a. A hat live isolate with body, its life circle is isolate
> b. A hat only live with one body at a specific time, it can not live with
> two body(association would be more than one)
>
> So when the body die, the clean dead should include take_off Hat and del
> Head, otherwise, the code definition is not prciselly describing the
> relationship, which may cause a mess system, for example, a body has dead,
> but one hat is still associated with a unreferenced body.
> A point on this issue, maybe python is smart that the take_off_hat(self) is
> not needed in go_to_heaven() method(i am not sure yet), but the del
> self.head is sure needed, otherwise, we will have a no_body_head in our
> ZODB, that is extremely horrible, right?
>
> All of these points one, the four kinds of class relationship in UML
> precisely describe the real word, if the implementation is not precisely,
> you will have unexpected results.
> Of course, python may be smart to achieve such goal with less effort, that
> is why i am asking for a code example for all of the four relationships.

You're still misunderstanding Python's object model. del does NOT
delete an object. It deletes a name. The only way for an object to be
deleted is for it to be inaccessible (there are no references to it,
or there are no reachable references to it).
>>> foo = object()
>>> bar = foo
>>> foo
<object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>> bar
<object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>> del foo
>>> bar
<object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>> foo

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in <module>
    foo
NameError: name 'foo' is not defined


There is no way to force the go_to_heaven method to delete the head
unless you can make sure that all other references to the head are
weak references. If you need strictly-enforced relationships, Python
is probably not the right language for the job- you'll be better off
with C++ or Java.


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Thu Nov 10 14:35:29 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:35:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<4ebafbb7$0$1724$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9F9975FB1BD5FOKB@88.198.244.100>

John Nagle wrote:

> On 11/7/2011 1:00 PM, OKB (not okblacke) wrote:
>>           I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):
> 
>      CPython is slow. It's a naive interpreter.  There's
> almost no optimization during compilation.  Try PyPy
> or Shed Skin.

    	PyPy is interesting, but I use various libraries that make use of C 
extension modules.  I'm not going to compile them all myself, which is 
apparently what I would need to do for PyPy.  PyPy or other 
implementations won't work for me unless they're completely drop-in 
replacements for the interpreter.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 10 14:38:58 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:58 -0500
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9h98n$i56$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2011 9:31 AM, Jerry Zhang wrote:

>     Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
>     aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this
>     since it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system
>     should track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may
>     not work well.
>
>     For example,
>     a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
>     My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
>     instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.

Create the arm as a private member '_arm' of body and make sure that no 
method of body passes out a reference to the arm. (In Python, outside 
code can still grab a reference to the private attribute, but that is a 
coding bug.)

I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are 
based on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the 
composition does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm transplants.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Nov 10 15:31:23 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:31:23 -0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>	<CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC349B.5030209@stoneleaf.us>

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> You're still misunderstanding Python's object model. del does NOT
> delete an object. It deletes a name. The only way for an object to be
> deleted is for it to be inaccessible (there are no references to it,
> or there are no reachable references to it).
>>>> foo = object()
>>>> bar = foo
>>>> foo
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>>> del foo
>>>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
>>>> foo
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in <module>
>     foo
> NameError: name 'foo' is not defined
> 
> 
> There is no way to force the go_to_heaven method to delete the head
> unless you can make sure that all other references to the head are
> weak references. If you need strictly-enforced relationships, Python
> is probably not the right language for the job- you'll be better off
> with C++ or Java.

Having said all that, you could do something like:

class BodyPart(object):
     _alive = True
     def __nonzero__(self):
         return self._alive
     def die(self):
         self._alive = False

class Head(BodyPart):
     "will contain things like Brain, Eyes, etc"
     size = 5

class Body(BodyPart):
     def __init__(self):
         self._head = Head()
     def go_to_heaven(self):
         self._head.die()
         self.die()

John_Doe = Body()

if John_Doe:
     print "John Doe is alive!"
John_Doe.go_to_heaven()
if John_Doe:
     print "uh oh - something wrong"
else:
     print "John Doe is no longer with us"
     print "and his head is %s" % ('alive' if John_Doe._head else 'dead')


From nathan.alexander.rice at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 15:35:22 2011
From: nathan.alexander.rice at gmail.com (Nathan Rice)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:35:22 -0500
Subject: Working with databases (ODBC and ORMs) in Python 3.2
In-Reply-To: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFbRm+KCP2H=4Q==DOdOULH5dTDZn=VvFwijuW7mTq37ey02Q@mail.gmail.com>

For now, get started in Python 2.7.  Write code with an eye to 3.x
portability, and you will be fine.  You probably won't see 3.x
overtake 2.x for at least 3-4 years, and a decent amount of stuff is
still 2.x only.  Since it sounds like you are a windows/net shop, go
ahead and use Iron Python.

SQL Alchemy is your one stop shop.  It is basically 3.x compatible,
but see my previous statement about 3.x.  I haven't used SQL Alchemy
with SQL Server but honestly, SQL Alchemy is THE showcase python
library -- I doubt you will run into any issues.  Just google
"sqlalchemy sql server", I'm sure there's a blog post explaining the
specifics in detail.

Nathan

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:56 PM, tkpmep at hotmail.com <tkpmep at hotmail.com> wrote:
> We are in the process of trying to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.2
> with a view to making a 5-10 year commitment to the right platform,
> and would appreciate some guidance on how best to connect to SQL
> databases in 3.2. ceODBC 2.01 provides an ODBC driver for Python 3.2,
> does anyone have experience using it? Also, are there any ORMs (object
> relational mapper)s that work well with 3,2?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Thomas Philips
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 15:37:05 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:37:05 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>

> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.

The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is
because they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and
that string is passed to exec().

So really, does it have "nothing" to do with exec? Or does your
argument eventually boil down to the use of exec?

> is more readable than

Of course not. I do, however, think that it's conceivable that I'd
want to key a namedtuple by an invalid identifier, and to do that,
yes, I'd need to use getattr().

Devin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>>
>> Well. It reads fine in a certain sense, in that I can figure out
>> what's going on (although I have some troubles figuring out why the
>> heck certain things are in the code). The issue is that what's going
>> on is otherworldly: this is not a Python pattern, this is not a normal
>> approach. To me, that means it does not read fine.
>
> Certainly it's a Python pattern -- it's what you do to dynamically generate
> code.
>
>
>> The use of exec also results in (seemingly) arbitrary constraints on
>> the input. Like, why can't "--" be a name? Because exec? Is there some
>> other reason?
>
> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.
>
>
>> '--' is a valid attribute name on virtually any object that supports
>> attribute setting (e.g. function objects). Of course, you need to use
>> setattr() and getattr(). Is this really the reason, or is it a
>> limitation caused primarily by the usage of exec and the need to
>> prevent code injection? If somebody added this feature later on, would
>> this create a security vulnerability in certain projects that used
>> namedtuple in certain ways?
>
> So you think
>
> ? ?somevar = getattr(my_named_tuple, '--')
>
> is more readable than
>
> ? ?somevar = my_named_tuple.spam
>
> ?
>
> ~Ethan~
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Thu Nov 10 15:38:53 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:38:53 +0900
Subject: easy_install doesn't install non-package *.py file
In-Reply-To: <5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
References: <mailman.2530.1320726768.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5611883.2927.1320916092038.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rt6FxvFO63cu1Y9PMVzpTrCm-NOO1sPwJi+EA3PPxXQzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:
> Hey. I don't know the details, but your setup.py needs to use either the 'package_data' or the 'data_files' entry in the dict you pass to setup. These can specify files you want included in the sdist which aren't package files.
>
> There are many complications with using them though. One of them in particular (I don't remember which one) installs the files you specify in a different place depending on whether the user is installing the sdist from local files (python setup.py install) or using pip, so be sure to test both ways.

'package_data' is the solution for my trouble.
Thank you very much, Jonathan.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 16:19:18 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:19:18 -0700
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk4KWiaksWciURj0+YLcgewr8nqHcMg+UWP3FcveynJYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Of course not. I do, however, think that it's conceivable that I'd
> want to key a namedtuple by an invalid identifier, and to do that,
> yes, I'd need to use getattr().

Care to give a real use case?  You could even go a step further and
use, say, arbitrary ints as names if you're willing to give up
getattr() and use "ob.__class__.__dict__[42].__get__(ob,
ob.__class__)" everywhere instead.  The fact that somebody might
conceivably want to do this doesn't make it a good idea, though.

I do find it a bit funny that you're criticizing a somewhat smelly
implementation detail by complaining that it doesn't support an
equally smelly feature.

Cheers,
Ian


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Nov 10 16:47:48 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:47:48 -0800
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBC4684.8070308@stoneleaf.us>

Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is
> because they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and
> that string is passed to exec().
> 
> So really, does it have "nothing" to do with exec? Or does your
> argument eventually boil down to the use of exec?

As I recall the big reason for namedtuples was things like

     sys.version_info[1]  # behind door number one is...

being much more readable as

     sys.version_info.minor

In other words, the tuple offsets are named -- hence, namedtuples.  And 
only valid identifiers will work.

So, no, it has nothing to do with 'exec', and everything to do with the 
problem namedtuple was designed to solve.

~Ethan~


From rowen at uw.edu  Thu Nov 10 16:52:17 2011
From: rowen at uw.edu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:52:17 -0800
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
Message-ID: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>

I am trying to write a decorator that times an instance method and 
writes the results to a class member variable. For example:

def timeMethod(func):
    def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
        t1 = time.time()
        res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
        duration = time.time() - t1
        self.timings[func.__name__] = duration
        return res
    return wrapper

This works, but I'm not very happy with the way self.timings is obtained.


I first tried to write this as a class (for readability), and this did 
NOT work:

class timeMethod(object):
    def __init__(self, func):
        self.func = func
    def __call__(self, *args, **keyArgs):
        t1 = time.time()
        res = self.func(*args, **keyArgs)
        duration = time.time() - t1
        args[0].timings.set(self.func.__name__, duration)
        return res

In the first case the wrapper is called as an unbound function, so it 
works. But in the second case the wrapper is called as a bound method -- 
thus args[0] is not func's class instance, and I can't get to the 
timings attribute.

Unfortunately they are both pretty ugly. Is there a cleaner way to 
access the the instance of which func is a member? I was very 
disappointed it was not available when timeMethod was 
called/instantiated.

-- Russell



From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Thu Nov 10 16:54:02 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 06:54:02 +0900
Subject: [ANN] pyKook 0.7.1 - task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake
	or Ant
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RvyOZmAtzVqkgy0=hhqzi5se3zzs1Q96NyVs+yMMZm_sQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have released pyKook
0.7.1.http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
pyKook is a task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake or Ant.
Bugfix in this release----------------------
* Fixed to include 'kook/books/*.py' into .egg file

--regads,makoto kuwata

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have released pyKook 0.7.0.
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/
> http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
> http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
>
> In this release, you can run commands on remote machines using ssh.
> This is very useful to deploy your application.
>
>
> pyKook Overview
> ---------------
>
> pyKook is a task automation tool for Python, similar to Rake or Ant.
>
> (Kookbook.py):
>
> ? ?kookbook.default = 'build'
>
> ? ?## task
> ? ?@recipe(None, ['hello'])
> ? ?def build(c):
> ? ? ? ?"""build all"""
> ? ? ? ?pass
>
> ? ?## file
> ? ?@recipe('hello', ['hello.o'])
> ? ?def file_hello(c):
> ? ? ? ?"""build 'hello' from 'hello.o'"""
> ? ? ? ?system(c%'gcc -o $(product) $(ingred)')
>
> ? ?## rule
> ? ?@recipe('*.o', ['$(1).c', '$(1).h'])
> ? ?def file_o(c):
> ? ? ? ?system(c%'gcc -c $(ingred)')
>
>
> Command-line:
>
> ? ?bash> kk ? ? # or pykook
> ? ?$ gcc -c hello.c
> ? ?### *** hello.o (recipe=file_o)
> ? ?$ gcc -c hello.c
> ? ?### ** hello (recipe=file_hello)
> ? ?$ gcc -o hello hello.o
> ? ?### * build (recipe=build)
>
> See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html for details.
>
>
> Enhancements in this release
> ----------------------------
>
> * (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Remote command execution (ssh and sftp) is available.
> ?This is very useful to deploy your application into servers.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py)::
>
> ? ? ? ?from kook.remote import Remote
> ? ? ? ?remote = Remote(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?hosts ? ?= ['www1', 'www2', 'user3 at www3:10022'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ?port ? ? = 22,
> ? ? ? ? ? ?user ? ? = 'user1',
> ? ? ? ? ? ?#password = None, ? ? ?# for login, '~/.ssh/id_rsa' and sudo
> ? ? ? ? ? ?passphrase = None, ? ? # only for '~/.ssh/id_rsa'
> ? ? ? ? ? ?sudo_password = 'xxx', # only for sudo command
> ? ? ? ?)
>
> ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ?@remotes(remote)
> ? ? ? ?def hostinfo(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?"""show hostname"""
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh = c.ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh('hostname') ? ? ? ?# run command with ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh('whomai') ? ? ? ? ?# run command with ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.sudo('whoami') ? ? # run command with sudo
>
> ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ?@remotes(remote)
> ? ? ? ?def exchange(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?"""upload and download files"""
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh = c.ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?with ssh.pushd('work/apps'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.get('file.remote') ? ?# download a file
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.put('file.local') ? ? # upload a file
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.mget('remote.*') ? ? ?# download files
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.mput('local.*') ? ? ? # upload files
>
> ?Notice that you must configure ssh at first and confirm that
> ?you can log into servers without typing password::
>
> ? ? ? ?bash> ssh user1 at www1
> ? ? ? ?bash> ssh user1 at www2
> ? ? ? ?bash> ssh -p 10022 user3 at www3
> ? ? ? ?bash> kk hostinfo
> ? ? ? ?### * showinfo (recipe=showinfo)
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ hostame
> ? ? ? ?www1
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ whoami
> ? ? ? ?user1
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
> ? ? ? ?[user2 at www2]$ hostame
> ? ? ? ?www2
> ? ? ? ?[user2 at www2]$ whoami
> ? ? ? ?user2
> ? ? ? ?[user2 at www2]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
> ? ? ? ?[user3 at www3]$ hostame
> ? ? ? ?www3
> ? ? ? ?[user3 at www3]$ whami
> ? ? ? ?user3
> ? ? ? ?[user3 at www3]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
>
> ?Currently commands are executed sequencially (not in parallel).
>
> * (EXPERIMENTAL!!) Password object supported.
> ?Password object asks you to enter password in prompt when necessary.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py)::
>
> ? ? ? ?from kook.remote import Remote, Password
> ? ? ? ?remote = Remote(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?hosts ? ? ? ? = ['user1 at www1:22'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ?#password ? ? = Password('login'),
> ? ? ? ? ? ?passphrase ? ?= Password('~/.ssh/id_rsa'),
> ? ? ? ? ? ?sudo_password = Password('sudo command')
> ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ?#
> ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ?@remotes(remote)
> ? ? ? ?def remote_test(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh = c.ssh
> ? ? ? ? ? ?ssh.sudo('whoami')
>
> ?Output example::
>
> ? ? ? ?bash> kk remote_test
> ? ? ? ?### * remote_test (recipe=remote_test)
> ? ? ? ?Password for ~/.ssh/id_rsa:
> ? ? ? ?Password for sudo command:
> ? ? ? ?[user1 at www1]$ sudo whoami
> ? ? ? ?root
>
> ?It is easy to share password object.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py)::
>
> ? ? ? ?from kook.remote import Remote, Password
> ? ? ? ?passwd = Password()
> ? ? ? ?remote = Remote(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?hosts ? ? ? ? = ['user1 at www1:22'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ?password ? ? ?= passwd,
> ? ? ? ? ? ?passphrase ? ?= passwd,
> ? ? ? ? ? ?sudo_password = passwd,
> ? ? ? ?)
>
>
> Changes in this release
> -----------------------
>
> * Category class is changed to convers all instance methods into staticmethods.
>
> ?Ex (Kookbook.py):
>
> ? ? ? ?class apache(Category):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def start(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? system('apachectl start')
>
> ? ? ? ?## start() is converted into staticmethod
> ? ? ? ?assert type(apache.__dict__['start']) == staticmethod
> ? ? ? ?from types import FunctionType
> ? ? ? ?assert type(apache.start) == FuntionType
>
> ?This makes execution of other recipes in category easier::
>
> ? ? ? ?class apache(Category):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def start(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ...
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def stop(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ...
> ? ? ? ? ? ?@recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ?def restart(c):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? apache.start(c) ? ?# execute other recipe
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? apache.stop(c) ? ? # execute other recipe
>
> * (internal) kook.config.stdout and kook.config.stderr are removed.
>
>
>
> See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-CHANGES.txt for details.
>
>
> Have fun!
>
> --
> regards,
> makoto kuwata
>


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 17:35:14 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:35:14 -0700
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
In-Reply-To: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
References: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Russell E. Owen <rowen at uw.edu> wrote:
> I am trying to write a decorator that times an instance method and
> writes the results to a class member variable. For example:
>
> def timeMethod(func):
> ? ?def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> ? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
> ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> ? ? ? ?self.timings[func.__name__] = duration
> ? ? ? ?return res
> ? ?return wrapper
>
> This works, but I'm not very happy with the way self.timings is obtained.

What do you feel is wrong with it?  You probably should use
sum(os.times()[:2]) instead, which (assuming your script is
single-threaded) will more accurately count the actual CPU time spent
in the function rather than real time, which could be quite different
if the CPU is busy.

Also, why do you need this?  If you're just trying to evaluate the
speed of your code, you should consider using a proper profiler or the
timeit module.  The former will tell you how much time is spent in
each function, while the latter runs the code a large number of times
in a loop, which gives you better precision for quick methods.

> I first tried to write this as a class (for readability), and this did
> NOT work:
>
> class timeMethod(object):
> ? ?def __init__(self, func):
> ? ? ? ?self.func = func
> ? ?def __call__(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> ? ? ? ?res = self.func(*args, **keyArgs)
> ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> ? ? ? ?args[0].timings.set(self.func.__name__, duration)
> ? ? ? ?return res
>
> In the first case the wrapper is called as an unbound function, so it
> works. But in the second case the wrapper is called as a bound method --
> thus args[0] is not func's class instance, and I can't get to the
> timings attribute.

I prefer the function version myself, but to make this work you could
add something like this (untested) to make your wrapper class a
descriptor that tacks on the self argument:

    def __get__(self, instance, owner):
        from functools import partial
        if instance is None:
            return self
        return partial(self, instance)

HTH,
Ian


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 17:40:18 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:40:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
Message-ID: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

Lemme preface this post by saying the following - I've taken my
computer to the local IT office on RIT campus, asked a Computer
Science professor specializing in Python, and posted my question on
answers.yahoo.com (I don't know why I expected that to work...). I've
also googled my problem multiple times and have not come up with
anything newer than about 4 years ago.

Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
desktop... not so much.

How to recreate the issue on iMac - try to open IDLE, or in terminal,
type the following:
python
import turtle
turtle.up()

This is what's displayed in terminal:

COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$ python
Python 2.7.2 (v2.7.2:8527427914a2, Jun 11 2011, 15:22:34)
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import turtle
>>> turtle.up()
CGColor with 1 components
Abort trap
COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$

It also pops up a Problem Report for Python
Python quit unexpectedly.
Click Reopen to open the application again. This report will be sent
to Apple automatically.
Problem Details and System Configuration

Process:         Python [33535]
Path:            /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
Identifier:      org.python.python
Version:         2.7.2 (2.7.2)
Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  bash [33532]

Date/Time:       2011-11-10 17:31:58.424 -0500
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.6.8 (10K549)
Report Version:  6

Interval Since Last Report:          1141508 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:           2
Per-App Interval Since Last Report:  2 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   2
Anonymous UUID:                      C667A2E4-5530-4A3E-B6E3-
B38E970458E5

Exception Type:  EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Crashed Thread:  0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Application Specific Information:
abort() called

Thread 0 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89bd40b6 __kill + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89c749f6 abort + 83
2   Tcl                           	0x000000010067f9ef Tcl_Panic + 0
3   Tcl                           	0x000000010067fa91 Tcl_Panic + 162
4   Tk                            	0x00000001010ac5a7 TkpGetColor +
383
5   Tk                            	0x00000001010b9a2a TkpMenuInit +
156
6   Tk                            	0x000000010103c36c TkMenuInit + 88
7   Tk                            	0x00000001010bc68b -
[TKApplication(TKMenus) _setupMenus] + 53
8   Tk                            	0x00000001010b6d27 -
[TKApplication(TKInit) _setup:] + 56
9   Tk                            	0x00000001010b7260 TkpInit + 545
10  Tk                            	0x000000010102da26 Initialize +
1678
11  _tkinter.so                   	0x00000001005fccfb Tcl_AppInit + 75
12  _tkinter.so                   	0x00000001005fa153 Tkinter_Create +
915
13  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c102d
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 22397
14  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
15  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
16  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
17  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
18  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
19  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
20  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
21  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
22  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
23  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
24  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
25  org.python.python             	0x00000001000ba5f7
PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords + 87
26  org.python.python             	0x0000000100021e5e PyInstance_New +
126
27  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
28  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
29  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
30  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
31  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
32  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
33  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
34  org.python.python             	0x0000000100077a68 slot_tp_init +
88
35  org.python.python             	0x0000000100074e65 type_call + 245
36  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
37  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
38  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c1ebe
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26126
39  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
40  org.python.python             	0x000000010003da80 function_call +
176
41  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
42  org.python.python             	0x000000010001ebcb
instancemethod_call + 363
43  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
44  org.python.python             	0x0000000100077a68 slot_tp_init +
88
45  org.python.python             	0x0000000100074e65 type_call + 245
46  org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
47  org.python.python             	0x00000001000be5f3
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 11587
48  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c1ebe
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26126
49  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c1ebe
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26126
50  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
51  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2e46 PyEval_EvalCode
+ 54
52  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e769c
PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags + 380
53  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e78fe
PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags + 78
54  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e80e1
PyRun_AnyFileExFlags + 161
55  org.python.python             	0x00000001000fe77c Py_Main + 2940
56  org.python.python             	0x0000000100000f14 0x100000000 +
3860

Thread 1:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9ec0a kevent + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89ba0add
_dispatch_mgr_invoke + 154
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89ba07b4
_dispatch_queue_invoke + 185
3   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89ba02de
_dispatch_worker_thread2 + 252
4   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9fc08
_pthread_wqthread + 353
5   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9faa5 start_wqthread +
13

Thread 2:
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9fa2a
__workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9fe3c
_pthread_wqthread + 917
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x00007fff89b9faa5 start_wqthread +
13

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):
  rax: 0x0000000000000000  rbx: 0x00007fff7116b2f8  rcx:
0x00007fff5fbfc0e8  rdx: 0x0000000000000000
  rdi: 0x00000000000082ff  rsi: 0x0000000000000006  rbp:
0x00007fff5fbfc100  rsp: 0x00007fff5fbfc0e8
   r8: 0x00007fff7116ea60   r9: 0x0000000000000000  r10:
0x00007fff89bd00fa  r11: 0x0000000000000206
  r12: 0x00000001006ecb20  r13: 0x0000000000000001  r14:
0x00000001010e1f77  r15: 0x0000000000000000
  rip: 0x00007fff89bd40b6  rfl: 0x0000000000000206  cr2:
0x00000001135b54f3
...............
...............
...............
Model: iMac7,1, BootROM IM71.007A.B03, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo,
2.4 GHz, 4 GB, SMC 1.20f4
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro, ATI,RadeonHD2600, PCIe, 256 MB
Memory Module: global_name
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x14E4, 0x88),
Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (5.10.131.42.4)
Bluetooth: Version 2.4.5f3, 2 service, 19 devices, 1 incoming serial
ports
Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
Network Service: AirPort, AirPort, en1
Serial ATA Device: WDC WD3200AAJS-40RYA0, 298.09 GB
Parallel ATA Device: OPTIARC  DVD RW AD-5630A, 406.7 MB
USB Device: Built-in iSight, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.), 0x8502,
0xfd400000 / 2
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.),
0x8206, 0x1a100000 / 2
USB Device: Razer Naga, 0x1532, 0x0015, 0x1d100000 / 2
USB Device: IR Receiver, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.), 0x8242, 0x5d100000 / 2




I have tried copying every framework possible from the laptop to the
iMac, done several reinstalls, and pretty much everything else I and
the IT people on campus could think of to no avail. I'm pretty close
to paying 20-30 bucks for a call to Apple and ask for help, because
I'm tired of programming on a 13-inch screen while my 20-inch desktop
is sitting right next to me just playing pandora...

P.S. To those who might say "just use your imac as another monitor!" I
can't. I've already asked Apple about that - the iMac is too old.

HELP!!!


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 17:48:51 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 22:48:51 GMT
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:58 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are
> based on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the
> composition does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm
> transplants.

And Guido's Time Machine strikes again... not only have there been arm 
transplants, but the first DOUBLE arm transplant was three years ago:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1039587/Worlds-double-arm-transplant-man-gets-teenagers-limbs.html


There have been successful *face* transplants. Nothing will surprise me 
now until they do a brain or head transplant.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 17:56:41 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 22:56:41 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<CABicbJLd__9vJKr5b6B+QCYvx-BBSt3UY3z54kB=7uuU1EUVig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2624.1320959990.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebc56a9$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:19:18 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
> <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Of course not. I do, however, think that it's conceivable that I'd want
>> to key a namedtuple by an invalid identifier, and to do that, yes, I'd
>> need to use getattr().
> 
> Care to give a real use case?  

A common use-case is for accessing fields from an external data source, 
using the same field names. For example, you might have a database with a 
field called "class", or a CSV file with columns "0-10", "11-20", etc.

Personally, I wouldn't bother using attributes to access fields, I'd use 
a dict, but some people think it's important to use attribute access.


> You could even go a step further and use,
> say, arbitrary ints as names if you're willing to give up getattr() and
> use "ob.__class__.__dict__[42].__get__(ob, ob.__class__)" everywhere
> instead.  The fact that somebody might conceivably want to do this
> doesn't make it a good idea, though.

Obviously you would write a helper function rather than repeat that mess 
in-line everywhere.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 10 18:07:23 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Nov 2011 23:07:23 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:37:05 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
>> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.
> 
> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is because
> they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and that
> string is passed to exec().

That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without 
exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from 
passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of 
allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?

You could remove the validation, allowing users to pass invalid field 
names, but that would be a lousy API. If you want field names that aren't 
valid identifiers, the right solution is a dict, not attributes.

Here's a re-implementation using a metaclass:

http://pastebin.com/AkG1gbGC

and a diff from the Python bug tracker removing exec from namedtuple:

http://bugs.python.org/file11608/new_namedtuples.diff


You will notice both of them keep the field name validation.


-- 
Steven


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov 10 18:11:23 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:11:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9hlmr$k7l$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df at e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com> CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> writes:

> Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> desktop... not so much.

IDLE is a separate program from Python itself, right?  It's a GUI, or an
IDE, or a shell or something.

(Your session output doesn't seem to involve IDLE at all, so I am
wondering why you mentioned it.)

By typing "python" on your desktop, are you running plain Python, or
are you running IDLE?

Did you install Python and IDLE on the desktop machine separately?
Did both installations succeed?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Thu Nov 10 18:14:23 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:14:23 -0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:58 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are
>> based on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the
>> composition does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm
>> transplants.
>
> And Guido's Time Machine strikes again... not only have there been arm
> transplants, but the first DOUBLE arm transplant was three years ago:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1039587/Worlds-double-arm-transplant-man-gets-teenagers-limbs.html
>
>
> There have been successful *face* transplants. Nothing will surprise me
> now until they do a brain or head transplant.
>

Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
full body transplant?

>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 18:27:49 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:27:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<j9hlmr$k7l$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <10a05a56-bd2a-4036-963a-b003453f58a9@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 6:11?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d... at e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com> CAMERON ALLEY <cra5... at g.rit.edu> writes:
>
> > Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> > ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> > 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> > laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> > desktop... not so much.
>
> IDLE is a separate program from Python itself, right? ?It's a GUI, or an
> IDE, or a shell or something.
>
> (Your session output doesn't seem to involve IDLE at all, so I am
> wondering why you mentioned it.)
>
> By typing "python" on your desktop, are you running plain Python, or
> are you running IDLE?
>
> Did you install Python and IDLE on the desktop machine separately?
> Did both installations succeed?
>
> --
> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

Thanks for the prompt response - yes, IDLE is a seperate program from
python, however included in the Python 2.7.2 folder when downloaded
from python.org. It's an IDE. I mentioned it, because when I try to
open it, I also get an error report, so I figured it wouldn't be
coincidence.

I'm not typing "python" on my desktop, I'm typing it in terminal with
no change of default directory. It runs plain python THROUGH terminal,
and when I import turtle, and call turtle.up() it should in theory
display an image of whatever I asked turtle to draw (in this case
nothing, but the window should still pop up.)

I installed two things on the desktop - python2.7.2 from python.org
and the respective ActiveTK. Both succeeded.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 18:39:12 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:39:12 +1100
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDpSP8fCpHnMvfA5tf9n1iut1_A_1jxqnnKykeMzXygtwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1320953960.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq391UM5AgvXztmA9bVqXyz9i0ZD1cHbPy3+4rV+cjEwg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
> full body transplant?

It's just a rebinding. You don't move the body, you just bind your
name to a new body. It's perfectly legal to have two names bound to
one body (cf Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde); if you murder Mr Hyde, you can
still access the body through the other name.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 10 18:45:06 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:45:06 -0500
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
In-Reply-To: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9hnm6$vv6$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2011 5:40 PM, CAMERON ALLEY wrote:

> Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> desktop... not so much.

You issue has nothing to do with IDLE and perhaps all to do with the 
buggy tcl/tk that comes with OSX 10.6. The Python module tkinter is the 
tk interface for Python (hence the name). The turtle module and IDLE 
both use tkinter. Searching all tracker issues (open and closed) for 
'max tcl' turns up (among several others)
http://bugs.python.org/issue10907
http://bugs.python.org/issue10969
http://bugs.python.org/issue12269
The latter 2, especially, might tell you what to do.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From nad at acm.org  Thu Nov 10 19:27:33 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:27:33 -0800
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-FAAC47.16273310112011@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df at e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>,
 CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> wrote:
> Lemme preface this post by saying the following - I've taken my
> computer to the local IT office on RIT campus, asked a Computer
> Science professor specializing in Python, and posted my question on
> answers.yahoo.com (I don't know why I expected that to work...). I've
> also googled my problem multiple times and have not come up with
> anything newer than about 4 years ago.
> 
> Okay, so the problem. I tried to install Python 2.7 about two months
> ago on both my laptop and iMac. Both are running up-to-date Mac OS X
> 10.6, with 64-bit processors and around 2.4GHz speed and 2G of RAM. My
> laptop installed python 2.7 and ran it perfectly, first time. My
> desktop... not so much.
> 
> How to recreate the issue on iMac - try to open IDLE, or in terminal,
> type the following:
> python
> import turtle
> turtle.up()
> 
> This is what's displayed in terminal:
> 
> COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$ python
> Python 2.7.2 (v2.7.2:8527427914a2, Jun 11 2011, 15:22:34)
> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import turtle
> >>> turtle.up()
> CGColor with 1 components
> Abort trap
> COMPUTERNAME:~ USER$

That's an odd one; I've not seen a crash like that before.  From the 
crash dump, it is clear that the crash is happening inside of Tk, not 
Python, and, judging from the symbol names, it has something to do with 
menu initialization and colors.

Try running the same Turtle test using the Apple-supplied Python 2.6

  /usr/bin/python2.6

The Apple-supplied Tcl/Tk that it uses is known to have a number of 
serious problems and should not be used for serious work but, for me, it 
will bring up the turtle window in Tk without crashing.  If it crashes 
the same way that 2.7.2 does, then that would be pretty solid 
corroboration that the problem is not in Python and more likely an issue 
with Tk.

My first question would be do you have some third-party OS X app or 
extension installed that alters or colors menus?  I know there used to 
be some popular ones out there in the past.  If not, try opening System 
Preferences, select Displays, select Color, and check which display 
profile is selected.  Perhaps try selecting another.  And are you using 
a specific language in System Preferences -> Languages & Text -> 
Language?

If that doesn't help, try running the following commands in a terminal 
window:

  source /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/tkConfig.sh
  echo $TK_VERSION $TK_PATCH_LEVEL

You should see something like:

  8.5 .11

If not, double check that you really are using the latest ActiveState 
Tcl/Tk 8.5 installer from here:

  http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads

Then try the failing turtle commads again and in the crash report, 
verify that  /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/ appear as 
framework paths and *not*  
/System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/.

Try the following command which may not work if you don't have Xcode 
tools installed:

  otool -L $(python2.7 -c 'import _tkinter; print(_tkinter.__file__)')

The paths reported again should start with  
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework and not 
/System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework.

If none of that works, you could try installing the other python.org 
2.7.2 installer, the 32-bit-only one, which is linked to the older 
Tcl/Tk 8.4, which uses Carbon interfaces rather than Cocoa, and see what 
happens with it.

In any case, please report back what you find and, if necessary, open an 
issue on the Python bug tracker:
  http://bugs.python.org/

Thanks!

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From gagou7 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 19:49:05 2011
From: gagou7 at gmail.com (Gagou Final Fantasy)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:49:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Solution
Message-ID: <b9fb48e4-3933-44ae-9df8-1d181c87224e@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

A common problem when you generate executable on Windows 7 and deploy
on Windows XP.

According with the py2exe tutorial, you need include the MVC DLL. But
the tutorial is old and the script given search only in one directory.
Before, the directory contained all DLL and the manifest, but nowadays
it contains only the DLL. You need to specify another directory for
the manifest file. If you don't do that, you will have this kind of
error:

    "this application has failed to start because the application
configuration is incorrect"

If you are on Windows 7 64 bits, you need the Microsoft Visual C
runtime DLL. Don't forget the manifest that isn't in the same
directory in Windows 7. You need to adapt the script like this:

    data_files = [("VC90", glob(r'C:\Windows\winsxs
\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91\*.*')),
    			("VC90", glob(r'C:\Windows\winsxs\Manifests
\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91.manifest'))
    ]
    setup(
    	data_files=data_files,
        console = [{'script': "C:\test\my_program.py"}],
        zipfile = None,
    )


Now you can deploy the "dist" directory that contains all files and
dependencies.


From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:30:41 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:30:41 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAMuTYXj+FOy8tgGAkt-iOUq4O8Ph5-W2OHd=4QSE1OWstu0U0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDr6qBueBGXykLrhH+MLiwyozD_U1+YRBnrWNfge0=uvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqkH6WzbEXWLf6T9yyJyfkH-yCFk1HWd_Vrqwi7iz3FrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANVwdDqYt+YiJ-hz1F7r+HWnQvFRaJzHvESGoiJu5TKdKE5W7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1320941348.7601.57.camel@tim-laptop>
	<CANVwdDrZD0Ay7y93uP1r9u+nYS6p==kXq9XZ3m5VHP6w5g1Y+Q@mail.gmail.com>
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2011/11/11 Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan at case.edu>

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just did an example code to describe what i am looking for.
> >
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> > # ...
> >
> > class Head:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.size = 5
> >
> > class Hat:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.color = red
> >     def took_on(self, body):
> >         self.body = body
> >     def took_off(self, body):
> >         del self.body
> >
> > class Body:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.head = Head()
> >     def take_on_hat(self, hat):
> >         self.hat = hat
> >         hat.take_on(self)
> >     def take_off_hat(self):
> >         hat.take_off(self)
> >         del self.hat
> >     def go_to_heaven(self):
> >         take_off_hat(self)
> >         del self.head
> >
> /*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> >
> > In this example, Head and body are COMPOSITION, which means
> > a. A head only live with one body, it can not live with other body. It
> can
> > not even live without body
> > b. If the body go to die, the head also go to die.
> >
> > Body and Hat are aggregation, which means
> > a. A hat live isolate with body, its life circle is isolate
> > b. A hat only live with one body at a specific time, it can not live with
> > two body(association would be more than one)
> >
> > So when the body die, the clean dead should include take_off Hat and del
> > Head, otherwise, the code definition is not prciselly describing the
> > relationship, which may cause a mess system, for example, a body has
> dead,
> > but one hat is still associated with a unreferenced body.
> > A point on this issue, maybe python is smart that the take_off_hat(self)
> is
> > not needed in go_to_heaven() method(i am not sure yet), but the del
> > self.head is sure needed, otherwise, we will have a no_body_head in our
> > ZODB, that is extremely horrible, right?
> >
> > All of these points one, the four kinds of class relationship in UML
> > precisely describe the real word, if the implementation is not precisely,
> > you will have unexpected results.
> > Of course, python may be smart to achieve such goal with less effort,
> that
> > is why i am asking for a code example for all of the four relationships.
>
> You're still misunderstanding Python's object model. del does NOT
> delete an object. It deletes a name. The only way for an object to be
> deleted is for it to be inaccessible (there are no references to it,
> or there are no reachable references to it).
> >>> foo = object()
> >>> bar = foo
> >>> foo
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
> >>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
> >>> del foo
> >>> bar
> <object object at 0x01CE14C0>
> >>> foo
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in <module>
>    foo
> NameError: name 'foo' is not defined
>
>
> There is no way to force the go_to_heaven method to delete the head
> unless you can make sure that all other references to the head are
> weak references. If you need strictly-enforced relationships, Python
> is probably not the right language for the job- you'll be better off
> with C++ or Java.
>

Thanks for your reply, but i know your point on this before post this
issue. "doing the the job of python's garbage collecting" system is not i
want.
What i am trying to do is a python implementation of the real "composition
implementation".

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:34:30 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:34:30 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <j9h98n$i56$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
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2011/11/11 Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>

> On 11/10/2011 9:31 AM, Jerry Zhang wrote:
>
>     Unfortunately there is a difference between composition and
>>    aggregation in my real word, and my application really care this
>>    since it is trying to simulate this real world model, so my system
>>    should track this difference accurately, otherwise the system may
>>    not work well.
>>
>>    For example,
>>    a. the Cls_arm and Cls_body may be composition, but not aggregation.
>>    My app must ensure that " one arm instance only live with one body
>>    instance, if the body instance die, the arm instance must die.
>>
>
> Create the arm as a private member '_arm' of body and make sure that no
> method of body passes out a reference to the arm. (In Python, outside code
> can still grab a reference to the private attribute, but that is a coding
> bug.)
>
> I will point out that in the real world, dead donor transplants are based
> on the fact the parts of the body do NOT have to die when the composition
> does. I will not be surprised if we someday see arm transplants.

Thanks for your comment.
Actually you are mixing the concept. That is aggregation implementation,
which also points out there is difference between aggregation and
composition implementation. You already know that.

>
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:43:33 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:43:33 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq391UM5AgvXztmA9bVqXyz9i0ZD1cHbPy3+4rV+cjEwg@mail.gmail.com>
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	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
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2011/11/11 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
> wrote:
> > Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
> > full body transplant?
>
> It's just a rebinding. You don't move the body, you just bind your
> name to a new body. It's perfectly legal to have two names bound to
> one body (cf Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde); if you murder Mr Hyde, you can
> still access the body through the other name.
>
> This is association, not aggregation or composition. You already realized
that there is difference between these relationship(depending on your
application requirement). and you are trying to tell me to code a
aggregation and the composition with the same code.



> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:54:22 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:54:22 +0800
Subject: Working with databases (ODBC and ORMs) in Python 3.2
In-Reply-To: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <63858437-450a-4c09-979d-e35f335fd12a@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANVwdDp4TM+gmr827aKn-PydxhozgLyizf4R9cz519x0jN_5Rw@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/11 tkpmep at hotmail.com <tkpmep at hotmail.com>

> We are in the process of trying to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.2
> with a view to making a 5-10 year commitment to the right platform,
> and would appreciate some guidance on how best to connect to SQL
> databases in 3.2. ceODBC 2.01 provides an ODBC driver for Python 3.2,
> does anyone have experience using it? Also, are there any ORMs (object
> relational mapper)s that work well with 3,2?
>
I am in the similar situation as you. I abandon the MySQL + python3.x
solution, since translate between fields of tables(SQL table) and objects
attributes is destroying my OOP world.
I choose the ZODB + python2.x solution, python3.x does not support ZODB yet.


>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Thomas Philips
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jerry.scofield at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 21:42:45 2011
From: jerry.scofield at gmail.com (Jerry Zhang)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:42:45 +0800
Subject: The python implementation of the "relationships between classes".
In-Reply-To: <CANVwdDrZTNzi8_v8fk8mNH+1b0tnW2670OXjE4U3Mqbw0M2iLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANVwdDr-6x8bt4iNL+Q=jZ7+edk7XbR2K_LeJC3Z60qy=vVFQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoOBTiRE8vUNz_xQcwDZA6gazG1fAMkFfhPMomtAKtp6w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<4ebc54d3$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALvWhxuWqm5ufGMXEoasFkJJD541nCkVL9s60N54Zk-Fz4rPgw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CANVwdDrZSXLNymO6G4bfLX+Aszzkqcv9609j7DR+j1Th3fYtow@mail.gmail.com>

A general description of my issue.

To my understand, python's feature such as "name-reference-object" and
"garbage collection" system did some of work for you, it makes your life
easier, but you still need to add your explicit application in your code.

For example,
Composition implementation: you may need to do 5 job with C++, but only 2
job with python, the other 3 job is done by python implicitly.
association implementation: You need 3 job with C++, but 1 with python. it
seems python's object's lifecycle handling has reached this level, all you
should do is just "associating and de-association".

Here is exactly of my question, for composition,
 the best code may be you do 2 job explicitly, 3 job done by python
implicitly.
Code_Zero. 1 job(by you) + 4(by python) does NOT work.
Code_one. 2 job(by you) + 3(by python) works. That is the best one.
Code_two. 3 job( by you) + 2 (by python) works too,
Code_three. 4 job(by you) + 1(by python) works too.

Since i am not familiar with python yet, my code most likely would gets
into Code_two or Code_three(Code_Zero is also possible for new guys like
me), though they also work, they are bad code.
What i am looking for is the Code_one example, i thought many OOP
application designer may have met this issue, so a good Code_one reference
is the best choice to start this project.

2011/11/11 Jerry Zhang <jerry.scofield at gmail.com>

>
>
> 2011/11/11 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Continuing this OT discussion, would it be a brain transplant, or a
>> > full body transplant?
>>
>> It's just a rebinding. You don't move the body, you just bind your
>> name to a new body. It's perfectly legal to have two names bound to
>> one body (cf Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde); if you murder Mr Hyde, you can
>> still access the body through the other name.
>>
>> This is association, not aggregation or composition. You already realized
> that there is difference between these relationship(depending on your
> application requirement). and you are trying to tell me to code a
> aggregation and the composition with the same code.
>
>
>
>> ChrisA
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 23:03:05 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
Message-ID: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>

Hi. I couldn't find a way to overwrite a property declared using a decorator in a parent class. I can only do this if I use the "classic" property() method along with a getter function. Here's an example:

#!/usr/bin/python3

class Polite:
    
    def __init__(self):
        self._greeting = "Hello"
    
    def get_greeting(self, suffix=", my dear."):
        return self._greeting + suffix
    greeting1 = property(get_greeting)

    @property
    def greeting2(self, suffix=", my dear."):
        return self._greeting + suffix


class Rude(Polite):
    
    @property
    def greeting1(self):
        return self.get_greeting(suffix=", stupid.")
    
    @property
    def greeting2(self):
        return super().greeting2(suffix=", stupid.")


p = Polite()
r = Rude()

print("p.greeting1 =", p.greeting1)
print("p.greeting2 =", p.greeting2)
print("r.greeting1 =", r.greeting1)
print("r.greeting2 =", r.greeting2) # TypeError: 'str' object is not callable



In this example I can easily overwrite the greeting1 property. But the inherited greeting2 doesn't seem to be a property but a mere string.

I use a lot of properties decorators for simple properties in a project and I hate mixing them with a couple of "undecorated" properties that have to be overwritten in child classes. I tried using @greeting2.getter decorator and tricks like this but inheritance overwriting failed every time I used decorators.
 Can someone tell me a way to use decorator-declared properties that can be overwritten in child classes?? That would be nice.


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 23:25:55 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:25:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2632.1320971268.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <960bb3e9-a1b4-4495-9334-e1a35f9b40f5@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 10, 7:27?pm, Ned Deily <n... at acm.org> wrote:
> That's an odd one; I've not seen a crash like that before. ?From the
> crash dump, it is clear that the crash is happening inside of Tk, not
> Python, and, judging from the symbol names, it has something to do with
> menu initialization and colors.
>
> Try running the same Turtle test using the Apple-supplied Python 2.6
>
> ? /usr/bin/python2.6
>
> The Apple-supplied Tcl/Tk that it uses is known to have a number of
> serious problems and should not be used for serious work but, for me, it
> will bring up the turtle window in Tk without crashing. ?If it crashes
> the same way that 2.7.2 does, then that would be pretty solid
> corroboration that the problem is not in Python and more likely an issue
> with Tk.
>
> My first question would be do you have some third-party OS X app or
> extension installed that alters or colors menus? ?I know there used to
> be some popular ones out there in the past. ?If not, try opening System
> Preferences, select Displays, select Color, and check which display
> profile is selected. ?Perhaps try selecting another. ?And are you using
> a specific language in System Preferences -> Languages & Text ->
> Language?
>
> If that doesn't help, try running the following commands in a terminal
> window:
>
> ? source /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/tkConfig.sh
> ? echo $TK_VERSION $TK_PATCH_LEVEL
>
> You should see something like:
>
> ? 8.5 .11
>
> If not, double check that you really are using the latest ActiveState
> Tcl/Tk 8.5 installer from here:
>
> ?http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads
>
> Then try the failing turtle commads again and in the crash report,
> verify that ?/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/ appear as
> framework paths and *not*
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/.
>
> Try the following command which may not work if you don't have Xcode
> tools installed:
>
> ? otool -L $(python2.7 -c 'import _tkinter; print(_tkinter.__file__)')
>
> The paths reported again should start with
> /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework and not
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework.
>
> If none of that works, you could try installing the other python.org
> 2.7.2 installer, the 32-bit-only one, which is linked to the older
> Tcl/Tk 8.4, which uses Carbon interfaces rather than Cocoa, and see what
> happens with it.
>
> In any case, please report back what you find and, if necessary, open an
> issue on the Python bug tracker:
> ?http://bugs.python.org/
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> ?Ned Deily,
> ?n... at acm.org
Thanks so much for your incredibly in-depth response Ned!

I've tried everything you've suggested and here's what I've found:

The error occurs with the old python as well, but this MIGHT be
because at some point during my many attempts at fixing this issue I
could have deleted an old tk framework.

It's funny you mention the theming - before snow leapord, I had
leapord installed and used magnifique to theme my computer. I then
upgraded to snow leapord and (like a novice) tried to use magnifique
again only to find it crashed my system because it's not compatible
with snow leapord. I did a reinstall of the OS though, and everything
was fine. (this was about 2 years ago). I also recently installed
Crystal Black on here, however I've been having this issue since
before that. Other than that, no specific theming or color changing
schemes come to mind... Oh actually there is something called Nocturne
I used to use... Not sure if any of these could be affecting this.

There's only one color profile, and no bizarre language being used.

When I typed that in terminal, I saw 8.5.11 - this was the recommended
activestate by python.org. Should I get 8.5.11?

I tried the failing turtle commands, and in the crash report /Library/
Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/8.5/ only appears once (when doing a
cmd+f search) and does not have /System/ in front of it.

I'm going to try installing the 32 bit 2.7.2 installer next, and I'll
be back to let you know how it goes.

Thanks a lot!

Cameron


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 23:35:32 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:35:32 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
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Message-ID: <CABicbJJRyQReMb0LMKC5GHwDxDNP2QU7+H3VwBfs78vN8aG13g@mail.gmail.com>

> You will notice both of them keep the field name validation.

There are lots of reasons for that to be the case. To me, the most
likely one just seems to be that you don't want to remove more than
necessary when changing the way something works under the hood -- both
for compatibility reasons, and because you want the patch to get
accepted and want the least number of objectionable changes. I guess
you disagree.

> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?

Then why doesn't Python do this anywhere else? e.g. why can I
setattr(obj, 'a#b') when obj is any other mutable type?

I just don't believe this reasoning is what happened, I suppose. And
there's no way for you to convince me, or me to convince you, without
R. Hettinger stepping in here and verifying one side of the story.
This is subjective supposition, and that was supposed to be my most
objective opposition.

To go off on another tangent, though, I don't really understand how
you guys can think this is reasonable, though. I don't get this
philosophy of restricting inputs that would otherwise be perfectly
valid, just for concerns that you have that users might not share --
especially when it's valid everywhere else that the concept shows up.
It seems totally inconsistent with the attitude expressed above (by
you!) towards exec, which is that it's ok to be cautious of something,
but something else to forbid it outright.

Of course, as I said before, I don't agree with core python developers
on lots of things. I guess this is just another thing I just don't
understand.

Devin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:37:05 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
>>> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier.
>>
>> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is because
>> they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and that
>> string is passed to exec().
>
> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?
>
> You could remove the validation, allowing users to pass invalid field
> names, but that would be a lousy API. If you want field names that aren't
> valid identifiers, the right solution is a dict, not attributes.
>
> Here's a re-implementation using a metaclass:
>
> http://pastebin.com/AkG1gbGC
>
> and a diff from the Python bug tracker removing exec from namedtuple:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/file11608/new_namedtuples.diff
>
>
> You will notice both of them keep the field name validation.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cra5370 at g.rit.edu  Thu Nov 10 23:38:28 2011
From: cra5370 at g.rit.edu (CAMERON ALLEY)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:38:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2632.1320971268.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<960bb3e9-a1b4-4495-9334-e1a35f9b40f5@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073@s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

IT WORKS!!!! I didn't change my activestate, but I downloaded python
3.2.2 with the 32 bit installer and it works! Perfectally!!

Sir you're my savior, thank you so much.

I don't know how you did it but you just made my day :)

Thanks again


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 23:43:30 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:43:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
Message-ID: <a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 2:03?pm, Laurent <laurent.pa... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi. I couldn't find a way to overwrite a property declared using a decorator in a parent class.

> class Polite:
> ? ? @property
> ? ? def greeting2(self, suffix=", my dear."):
> ? ? ? ? return self._greeting + suffix

Here you set up greeting2 as a property.

> class Rude(Polite):
> ? ? @property
> ? ? def greeting2(self):
> ? ? ? ? return super().greeting2(suffix=", stupid.")

Here you call Polite.greeting2 as a function.

> print("r.greeting2 =", r.greeting2) # TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

And here it's telling you that you're trying to treat a string - the
output of Polite.greeting2 - as a function.

The problem isn't that you cannot override greeting2 on Rude, it's
that you can't treat properties as functions, so you can't pass in a
new suffix. Instead, break the suffix out as a class attribute, then
each descendent just needs to override that attribute:

  class Polite(object):
    suffix = ', my dear'

    @property
    def greeting(self):
      return 'Hello' + self.suffix

  class Rude(Polite):
    suffix = ', stupid'


From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 00:17:11 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:17:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Yes using a separate class variable would transfer the problem to the class level. But adding 10 class variables if I have 10 properties would be ugly. Maybe I should reformulate the subject of this thread to "is there some python magic to pass parameters to decorator-declared properties ?"


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Fri Nov 11 00:40:09 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:40:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9F99DC7F2A816OKB@88.198.244.100>

Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> '--' not being allowed for a name has *nothing* to do with exec, and
>> everything to do with `--` not being a valid Python identifier. 
> 
> The only reason valid python identifiers come into it at all is
> because they get pasted into a string where identifiers would go, and
> that string is passed to exec().

    	The whole point of named tuples is to be able to access the members 
via attribute access as in "obj.attr".  Things like "obj.--" are not 
valid Python syntax, so you can't use "--" as the name of a namedtuple 
field.  Yes, you can do "getattr(obj, '--')" if you want, but it's quite 
reasonable for namedtuple to refrain from catering to that sort of 
perverse usage.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Fri Nov 11 00:54:50 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:54:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <Xns9F99DEFCB64B0OKB@88.198.244.100>

Laurent wrote:

> Yes using a separate class variable would transfer the problem to
> the class level. But adding 10 class variables if I have 10
> properties would be ugly. Maybe I should reformulate the subject of
> this thread to "is there some python magic to pass parameters to
> decorator-declared properties ?" 

    	You can't have it both ways.  If you want

myObj.greeting2 # No parentheses

    	To evaluate to a string (which it will if it's a property as you 
set it up), then it is necessarily true that myObj.greeting2(somearg) is 
going to try to call that string, which isn't going to work.  If you 
need to be able to pass in parameters, then you need greeting2 to be a 
real method, not a property, and you need to get the greeting string 
with

myObj.greeting2() # Parentheses

    	All this is as it should be.  The whole point of properties is that 
outside functions accessing them don't "know" that a getter function is 
called behind the scenes.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Nov 11 00:58:21 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:58:21 -0800
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQ4Ch8amPw8ybkZbuo-VqxmLYLPV=xy3s+N3OgQw2TJ0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Laurent <laurent.payot at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes using a separate class variable would transfer the problem to the class level. But adding 10 class variables if I have 10 properties would be ugly. Maybe I should reformulate the subject of this thread to "is there some python magic to pass parameters to decorator-declared properties ?"

Apparently, yes:

>>> class Foo(object):
...     @property
...     def bar(self, arg1='baz', arg2='qux'):
...         return arg1, arg2
...
>>> Foo.bar.fget(Foo(), 'spam', 'eggs')
('spam', 'eggs')
>>>

Though I do not like this trick at all.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com


From nad at acm.org  Fri Nov 11 01:51:29 2011
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:51:29 -0800
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
References: <3c2688bd-4f87-4eb1-9b40-3cb536a2d8df@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2632.1320971268.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<960bb3e9-a1b4-4495-9334-e1a35f9b40f5@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073@s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-9685C6.22512910112011@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073 at s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
 CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> wrote:
> IT WORKS!!!! I didn't change my activestate, but I downloaded python
> 3.2.2 with the 32 bit installer and it works! Perfectally!!
> 
> Sir you're my savior, thank you so much.
> 
> I don't know how you did it but you just made my day :)

The 32-bit-installer links to the older Carbon-based Tcl/Tk 8.4 which is 
very different under the covers from the Tcl/Tk 8.5 used by the 
Apple-supplied Pythons and the python.org 64-bit installer.  So there's 
*something* on your system that interferes with the Cocoa Tcl/Tk 8.5.  
If you want to pursue it, you might ask on the OS X Tcl mailing list.  
Good luck!

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.tcl.mac

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 04:41:39 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1571989.1239.1321004499667.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>

Hey yes it's working that way. But I don't like it very much either. If as OKB said the whole point is that outside functions can't detect a property then I'm going to stick with the non-decorator way. Thanks anyway.


From laurent.payot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 04:41:39 2011
From: laurent.payot at gmail.com (Laurent)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: property decorator and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <32311626.67.1320984185425.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjc16>
	<a18d022e-8f1c-46d6-9c5b-b0e6e74a4d3e@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<33183370.2460.1320988631657.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<mailman.2639.1320991104.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1571989.1239.1321004499667.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>

Hey yes it's working that way. But I don't like it very much either. If as OKB said the whole point is that outside functions can't detect a property then I'm going to stick with the non-decorator way. Thanks anyway.


From ss27051980 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 06:23:08 2011
From: ss27051980 at gmail.com (Suresh Sharma)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:53:08 +0530
Subject: No matter what I do, IDLE will not work...
Message-ID: <14bljwe7ffx67yysd6rfhxr9.1321010588320@email.android.com>

Hello all,
I need to know how to connect python 3.2 with mysql db i am newbie and appreciate your help to enhance my skills.

I googled a lot but nothing came up 

Ned Deily <nad at acm.org> wrote:

>In article 
><415ed0ec-65a5-41df-b81e-d74786c74073 at s5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
> CAMERON ALLEY <cra5370 at g.rit.edu> wrote:
>> IT WORKS!!!! I didn't change my activestate, but I downloaded python
>> 3.2.2 with the 32 bit installer and it works! Perfectally!!
>> 
>> Sir you're my savior, thank you so much.
>> 
>> I don't know how you did it but you just made my day :)
>
>The 32-bit-installer links to the older Carbon-based Tcl/Tk 8.4 which is 
>very different under the covers from the Tcl/Tk 8.5 used by the 
>Apple-supplied Pythons and the python.org 64-bit installer.  So there's 
>*something* on your system that interferes with the Cocoa Tcl/Tk 8.5.  
>If you want to pursue it, you might ask on the OS X Tcl mailing list.  
>Good luck!
>
>http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.tcl.mac
>
>-- 
> Ned Deily,
> nad at acm.org
>
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 08:31:35 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 05:31:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
Message-ID: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hi Folks

I pass a nested dictionary to a function.

def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
	print k1
	print k2

There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

Regards

macm


From joncle at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:09:30 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:09:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 1:31?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> ? ? ? ? print k1
> ? ? ? ? print k2
>
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> Regards
>
> macm

I've tried to understand this, but can't tell if it's a question or
statement, and even then can't tell what the question or statement
is...

Care to eloborate?


From gordon at panix.com  Fri Nov 11 11:25:19 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:25:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9ji9f$69l$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d at j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> macm <moura.mario at gmail.com> writes:

> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.

> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):

That's not valid syntax.

> 	print k1
> 	print k2

> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

Are you stating this can be done, or are you asking if it can be done?
Questions usually end with a question mark.  (Are you a native English
speaker?)

> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

print "%s" % x

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:33:27 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:33:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hi

Sorry ! My mistake.

>>> myDict = {}
>>> myDict['foo'] = {}
>>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'

-----

>>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
...	# MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
['bar'])
...	# I want inspect this MyObj
...	# what keys was pass
...	print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
...	# So What I want is :
...	# return foo bar

----------------

>>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
>>> result

Should print :

... foo bar

Best Regards

macm



On Nov 11, 2:09?pm, Jon Clements <jon... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 1:31?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks
>
> > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> > ? ? ? ? print k1
> > ? ? ? ? print k2
>
> > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> > Regards
>
> > macm
>
> I've tried to understand this, but can't tell if it's a question or
> statement, and even then can't tell what the question or statement
> is...
>
> Care to eloborate?



From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:36:55 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:36:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9ji9f$69l$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <09bf2935-00e6-4ecb-a5fe-71566155f995@q16g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 2:25?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c... at j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
> > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>
> That's not valid syntax.
>
> > ? ?print k1
> > ? ?print k2
> > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> Are you stating this can be done, or are you asking if it can be done?
> Questions usually end with a question mark. ?(Are you a native English
> speaker?)
>
> > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> print "%s" % x
>
> --
> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

Hi John

I am not a native English speaker. Sorry bad english.

Regards

macm


From moura.mario at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 11:38:41 2011
From: moura.mario at gmail.com (macm)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7364dd9-7c9b-45a5-a38a-e94a05541eee@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Ok Sorry!!

Sorry the noise!!


def func(object):
    print "%s" % object


Regards



On Nov 11, 2:33?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sorry ! My mistake.
>
> >>> myDict = {}
> >>> myDict['foo'] = {}
> >>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'
>
> -----
>
> >>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
>
> ... ? ? # MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
> ['bar'])
> ... ? ? # I want inspect this MyObj
> ... ? ? # what keys was pass
> ... ? ? print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
> ... ? ? # So What I want is :
> ... ? ? # return foo bar
>
> ----------------
>
> >>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
> >>> result
>
> Should print :
>
> ... foo bar
>
> Best Regards
>
> macm
>
> On Nov 11, 2:09?pm, Jon Clements <jon... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 11, 1:31?pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi Folks
>
> > > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> > > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> > > ? ? ? ? print k1
> > > ? ? ? ? print k2
>
> > > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
>
> > > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
>
> > > Regards
>
> > > macm
>
> > I've tried to understand this, but can't tell if it's a question or
> > statement, and even then can't tell what the question or statement
> > is...
>
> > Care to eloborate?



From d at davea.name  Fri Nov 11 11:47:21 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:21 -0500
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
In-Reply-To: <aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EBD5199.3010507@davea.name>

On 11/11/2011 11:33 AM, macm wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sorry ! My mistake.
>
>>>> myDict = {}
>>>> myDict['foo'] = {}
>>>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'
> -----
>
>>>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
> ...	# MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
> ['bar'])

No, it's not.   It's a string "works".  There's no dictionary passed to 
myFunction(), so it cannot do what you ask, slow or fast.

There are games you can play with introspection, but they are neither 
portable nor reliable.

> ...	# I want inspect this MyObj
> ...	# what keys was pass
> ...	print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
> ...	# So What I want is :
> ...	# return foo bar
>
> ----------------
>
>>>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
>>>> result
> Should print :
>
> ... foo bar
>
> Best Regards
>
> macm
Can you tell us the exact assignment, to see whether this is supposed to 
be a practical question, or a way to try to learn more about Python 
internals.



-- 

DaveA



From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Nov 11 11:52:25 2011
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:52:25 +0000
Subject: bug python2.3+zipimport+ubuntu 10.04 amd_64
Message-ID: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

I'm trying to run some aged software on a new machine which runs

Linux app2.reportlab.com 2.6.32-30-generic #59-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 21:30:46 UTC 
2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux  Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS

The software is required to use python 2.3 so first I've had some problems 
building python itself. Apparently to get rid of segfaults during the build we 
need the configure args to include

    BASECFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE

that certainly fixes the python build errors.

Now when we come to run the aged application we get this

$ ./xxx.cgi
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/rptlab/website/develop.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/xxx.cgi", line 7, in ?
     from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum


this appears to be related to the use of a zip import.

 > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join(os.getcwd(),"fastapp.zip"))
 > from fastwebapp import FastWebApp

if we unpack the zip and remove the path insert the application appears to run fine.

Googling appears to indicate that others have seen this error but on a different 
hardware and trying to remove optimizations from the python build has had 
variable success.

Anyone had any real success with this problem? The last version of the test 
machinery ran 32bit freebsd and we had no problems on that hardware.
-- 
Robin Becker



From gordon at panix.com  Fri Nov 11 12:28:52 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:28:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<1e00ab59-8fc5-4bd7-b52c-f98f3b0b4473@x8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9jm0k$e6n$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <aac0b123-673b-4d8f-bc05-1f639515a951 at c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> macm <moura.mario at gmail.com> writes:

> >>> myDict = {}
> >>> myDict['foo'] = {}
> >>> myDict['foo']['bar'] = 'works'

> -----

> >>> def myFunction( MyObj ):
> ...	# MyObj is a nested dicionary (normaly 2 steps like myDict['foo']
> ['bar'])
> ...	# I want inspect this MyObj
> ...	# what keys was pass
> ...	print MyObj.keys() ## WRONG
> ...	# So What I want is :
> ...	# return foo bar

> ----------------

> >>> result = myFunction( myDict['foo']['bar'] )
> >>> result

> Should print :

> ... foo bar

I don't think there's a simple way to do what you want.

You could inspect the whole dictionary to find the keys that map to a
given value, like so:

def MyFunction(mydict, x):
  for k1 in mydict:
    for k2 in mydict[k1]:
      if mydict[k1][k2] == x:
        return "%s %s" % (k1, k2)

>>> print MyFunction(myDict, 'works')
>>> foo bar

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 12:29:59 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:29:59 +0100
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
In-Reply-To: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 02:31 PM, macm wrote:
> Hi Folks
> 
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
> 
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> 	print k1
> 	print k2
> 
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
> 
> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
> 
> Regards
> 
> macm


I think the answer to the question, that I don't really understand is:
No. This cannot be done.


However we might help you if you copy a COMPLETE standalone example of
your problem and if you try to re-explain once more what exactly you
want to do.

Ideally tell us even why you want to do it. Perhaps the solution is
something completely different.


Below I'm doing some guess work:


nesteddict = { 'a': { 'A' : 'value1 a_A' , 'B' : 'value2 a_B' },
               'b': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
               'c': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
             }

def mymagic_function(value):
   print 'the value is <%s>', value
   print('There is really no way knowing from where this value came\n'
        'except if you tell me in which dictionary you are supposed\n'
         'and if I just try to find all matches\n' )

value = nesteddict['a']['B']

mymagic_function(value)





From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Nov 11 12:44:22 2011
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:44:22 +0000
Subject: bug python2.3+zipimport+ubuntu 10.04 amd_64
In-Reply-To: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4EBD5EF6.3040203@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

OK it seems there's a bug in zipimport.c that was fixed in 2.4. I copied across 
the 2.4 version and after removing a single new error check the rebuilt python 
2.3 works fine. There was supposed to be a patch here

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Modules/zipimport.c?r1=1.16&r2=1.17

but it's a dead link.
-- 
Robin Becker
On 11/11/2011 16:52, Robin Becker wrote:
> I'm trying to run some aged software on a new machine which runs
>
> Linux app2.reportlab.com 2.6.32-30-generic #59-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 21:30:46 UTC
> 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS
>
> The software is required to use python 2.3 so first I've had some problems
> building python itself. Apparently to get rid of segfaults during the build we
> need the configure args to include
>
> BASECFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE
>
> that certainly fixes the python build errors.
>
> Now when we come to run the aged application we get this
>
> $ ./xxx.cgi
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/home/rptlab/website/develop.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/xxx.cgi", line 7, in ?
> from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
> OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum
>
>
> this appears to be related to the use of a zip import.
>
>  > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join(os.getcwd(),"fastapp.zip"))
>  > from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
>
> if we unpack the zip and remove the path insert the application appears to run
> fine.
>
> Googling appears to indicate that others have seen this error but on a different
> hardware and trying to remove optimizations from the python build has had
> variable success.
>
> Anyone had any real success with this problem? The last version of the test
> machinery ran 32bit freebsd and we had no problems on that hardware.





From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Nov 11 12:44:22 2011
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:44:22 +0000
Subject: bug python2.3+zipimport+ubuntu 10.04 amd_64
In-Reply-To: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <4EBD52C9.7000408@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4EBD5EF6.3040203@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

OK it seems there's a bug in zipimport.c that was fixed in 2.4. I copied across 
the 2.4 version and after removing a single new error check the rebuilt python 
2.3 works fine. There was supposed to be a patch here

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Modules/zipimport.c?r1=1.16&r2=1.17

but it's a dead link.
-- 
Robin Becker
On 11/11/2011 16:52, Robin Becker wrote:
> I'm trying to run some aged software on a new machine which runs
>
> Linux app2.reportlab.com 2.6.32-30-generic #59-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 21:30:46 UTC
> 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS
>
> The software is required to use python 2.3 so first I've had some problems
> building python itself. Apparently to get rid of segfaults during the build we
> need the configure args to include
>
> BASECFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE
>
> that certainly fixes the python build errors.
>
> Now when we come to run the aged application we get this
>
> $ ./xxx.cgi
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/home/rptlab/website/develop.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/xxx.cgi", line 7, in ?
> from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
> OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum
>
>
> this appears to be related to the use of a zip import.
>
>  > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join(os.getcwd(),"fastapp.zip"))
>  > from fastwebapp import FastWebApp
>
> if we unpack the zip and remove the path insert the application appears to run
> fine.
>
> Googling appears to indicate that others have seen this error but on a different
> hardware and trying to remove optimizations from the python build has had
> variable success.
>
> Anyone had any real success with this problem? The last version of the test
> machinery ran 32bit freebsd and we had no problems on that hardware.






From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 12:45:00 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:45:00 +0100
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
In-Reply-To: <j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j9jmus$ni2$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 02:31 PM, macm wrote:
> > Hi Folks
> >
> > I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
> >
> > def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> > 	print k1
> > 	print k2
> >
> > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
> >
> > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > macm


If my guessing was correct is this what you are looking for?


nesteddict = { 'a': { 'A' : 'value1 a_A' , 'B' : 'value2 a_B' },
               'b': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
               'c': { 'A' : 'value3 b_A' , 'B' : 'value4 b_B' },
             }

def find_in_nested_dict(adict, avalue):
    results = []
    for key1, sub_dict in adict.items():
        for key2, value in sub_dict.items():
            if avalue == value:
                results.append( (key1, key2) )
    return results

def mk_lookup(adict):
    lookup = {}
    for key1, sub_dict in adict.items():
        for key2, value in sub_dict.items():
            entry = lookup.get(value, [])
            entry.append( (key1, key2) )
            lookup[value] = entry
    return lookup

# good if you just want so search one value
value = nesteddict['c']['B']
keys =  find_in_nested_dict(nesteddict, value)
print "found %r in %r" % (value, keys)

# if you need many lookups perhaps better to 'precalculate a
# 'reversed' dict
lookup = mk_lookup(nesteddict)
keys =  lookup[value]
print "found %r in %r" % (value, keys)








From gordon at panix.com  Fri Nov 11 12:51:57 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:51:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9jm2n$gik$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2653.1321033516.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9jnbt$p0j$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2653.1321033516.27778.python-list at python.org> Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> writes:

> > > There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.
> > >
> > > Whithout loop all dict. Just it!


> If my guessing was correct is this what you are looking for?

He said he didn't want to loop over the dict contents.  Without
that, I don't think there's an answer for him.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From sky378 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 13:44:27 2011
From: sky378 at gmail.com (Arjuna Software)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:44:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SMS api for python
References: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <23f5c569-a131-4ffc-9ded-b07bcaffc83b@n38g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 21, 3:10?am, Pankaj <pankaj.anand... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to make an api that would recieve the SMS text from the user
> and process it then send the result back to the use. Is there any api
> that I can use to do this??

Send SMS Text messages using SMS API:
http://www.txtimpact.com/sms-gateway-api.asp
TxtImpact SMS API, you have access to powerful text messaging
functionality for integration into your existing and new web and
enterprise applications.
Text Messaging API or SMS API can enable application to receive and
send SMS text messages utilising txtimpact advanced SMS gateway API or
Text Messaging API. TxtImpact provides simple HTTP interface for
clients to send and receive messages from mobile phone users. HTTP
POST can be used in all modern programming languages including ASP,
ASP.NET, C++, C#, PHP, VB, VB.NET, command lines, SSH & cURL.


From sky378 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 13:44:41 2011
From: sky378 at gmail.com (Arjuna Software)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:44:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SMS api for python
References: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2117.1319186470.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5f098d1d-adf3-4c4c-83eb-31a7621a8e21@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 21, 4:41?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Pankaj <pankaj.anand... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I want to make an api that would recieve the SMS text from the user
> > and process it then send the result back to the use. Is there any api
> > that I can use to do this??
>
> There would seem to be several options:http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=sms&submit=search
>
> Cheers,
> Chris

Send SMS Text messages using SMS API:
http://www.txtimpact.com/sms-gateway-api.asp
TxtImpact SMS API, you have access to powerful text messaging
functionality for integration into your existing and new web and
enterprise applications.
Text Messaging API or SMS API can enable application to receive and
send SMS text messages utilising txtimpact advanced SMS gateway API or
Text Messaging API. TxtImpact provides simple HTTP interface for
clients to send and receive messages from mobile phone users. HTTP
POST can be used in all modern programming languages including ASP,
ASP.NET, C++, C#, PHP, VB, VB.NET, command lines, SSH & cURL.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Nov 11 13:47:13 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:47:13 -0800
Subject: How to dynamically create a derived type in the Python C-API
Message-ID: <4EBD6DB1.2070600@stoneleaf.us>

Asking on behalf of Sven Marnach:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Assume we have the type Noddy as defined in the tutorial on writing C 
extension modules for Python. Now we want to create a derived type, 
overwriting only the __new__() method of Noddy.

Currently I use the following approach (error checking stripped for 
readability):

PyTypeObject *BrownNoddyType =
     (PyTypeObject *)PyType_Type.tp_alloc(&PyType_Type, 0);
BrownNoddyType->tp_flags = Py_TPFLAGS_DEFAULT | Py_TPFLAGS_BASETYPE;
BrownNoddyType->tp_name = "noddy.BrownNoddy";
BrownNoddyType->tp_doc = "BrownNoddy objects";
BrownNoddyType->tp_base = &NoddyType;
BrownNoddyType->tp_new = BrownNoddy_new;
PyType_Ready(BrownNoddyType);

This works, but I'm not sure if it is The Right Way To Do It. I would 
have expected that I have to set the Py_TPFLAGS_HEAPTYPE flag, too, 
because I dynamically allocate the type object on the heap, but doing so 
leads to a segfault in the interpreter.

I also thought about explicitly calling type() using PyObject_Call() or 
similar, but I discarded the idea. I would need to wrap the function 
BrownNoddy_new() in a Python function object and create a dictionary 
mapping __new__ to this function object, which seems silly.

What is the best way to go about this? Is my approach correct? Is there 
an interface function I missed?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

~Ethan~


From cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 14:04:06 2011
From: cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com (BV)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:04:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DISCOVER ISLAM - THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD
	!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <e4d88ca8-de87-45c4-a649-2a2a48fa8a51@o14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Nov 11 15:08:13 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:08:13 -0800
Subject: How to dynamically create a derived type in the Python C-API
In-Reply-To: <4EBD6DB1.2070600@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EBD6DB1.2070600@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4EBD80AD.5020201@stoneleaf.us>

The question is on StackOverflow if you want to answer it directly:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8066438

~Ethan~


From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 15:27:49 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:27:49 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
Message-ID: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>



Hi,

I got some code.
- This code contains a package named tests
- there are at least 100 references in different python files
	importing from above mentioned tests package.
- the code also imports pytz at one place

I get following warning message:

/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
Module tests was already imported from
/home/user/myproject/tests/__init__.pyc, but
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
  from pkg_resources import resource_stream


Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
the rest of the code to import the other?

Python version is 2.6.5


Thanks in advance for any suggestion.











From emile at fenx.com  Fri Nov 11 16:31:03 2011
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:31:03 -0800
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 12:27 PM Gelonida N said...
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I got some code.
> - This code contains a package named tests
> - there are at least 100 references in different python files
> 	importing from above mentioned tests package.
> - the code also imports pytz at one place
>
> I get following warning message:
>
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
> Module tests was already imported from
> /home/user/myproject/tests/__init__.pyc, but
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
>    from pkg_resources import resource_stream
>
>
> Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
> the rest of the code to import the other?
>
> Python version is 2.6.5
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Start with 
http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-328-absolute-and-relative-imports

Emile




From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 16:34:07 2011
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:34:07 -0700
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I got some code.
> - This code contains a package named tests
> - there are at least 100 references in different python files
> ? ? ? ?importing from above mentioned tests package.
> - the code also imports pytz at one place
>
> I get following warning message:
>
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
> Module tests was already imported from
> /home/user/myproject/tests/__init__.pyc, but
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
> ?from pkg_resources import resource_stream
>
>
> Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
> the rest of the code to import the other?

This sounds like a problem caused by using relative imports.

Each import statement is made relative to some top-level module.  The
import mechanism looks for it in the directories in sys.path (first
match wins).  The interpreter adds the empty string to the beginning
of sys.path, by default.  The empty string represents the current
working directory.  An import referencing a module found there is
called a relative import.

Solution:

If possible, make sure each of your import statements is absolute (the
top-level module is in one of the [legit] sys.path directories).  Then
do one of the following:

 * sys.path.remove('');
 * call your script from a directory without any python modules in it;
 * call os.chdir(...) in your script to change CWD before making any imports.

This also means you shouldn't "test" your modules by just running them
as scripts.  Instead, write a separate test script that imports each
of your modules absolutely (and maybe actually test them too <wink>).

As of 2.5, Python's from...import syntax supports explicit relative
imports, with absolute imports as the default (sort of).  In 2.5 and
2.6 the feature is optional, so you must add "from __future__ import
absolute_import" to enable it.  See PEP 328[1].

The relative import syntax means that you don't have to hard-code the
name of the packages in your imports, which helps with brevity and
portability.

The problem is that the empty string is still added to the from of
sys.path.  I'm going to have to find out more about that one.

Hope that helps.

-eric

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/


>
> Python version is 2.6.5
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 16:51:12 2011
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:51:12 -0700
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7CkpFnRxG=Vf6uBpr3=Bn=rPZLY2L3LOA6eiGkzcQ_ZqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem is that the empty string is still added to the from of
> sys.path. ?I'm going to have to find out more about that one.

Okay, don't know how I missed it but the docs for sys.path[1] spell it out:

    "As initialized upon program startup, the first item of this list,
path[0], is the directory containing the script that was used to
invoke the Python interpreter. If the script directory is not
available (e.g. if the interpreter is invoked interactively or if the
script is read from standard input), path[0] is the empty string,
which directs Python to search modules in the current directory
first."

So if you run a module as a script, that empty string will be added to
sys.path and all imports will first check the directory you were in
when you ran Python...

-eric


[1] http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.path


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:07:16 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:07:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SMS api for python
In-Reply-To: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <07a0a94e-2b96-4149-a18c-2cf2836351d8@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5179557.1489.1321049236343.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgt40>

You can use services like https://www.tropo.com/home.jsp or http://www.twilio.com/


From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:11:38 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:11:38 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org> <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <j9k6ir$66g$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 10:31 PM, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 11/11/2011 12:27 PM Gelonida N said...
>> Is there any way to tell pytz to import it's own tests package and tell
>> the rest of the code to import the other?
>>
>> Python version is 2.6.5
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
> 
> Start with
> http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-328-absolute-and-relative-imports
> 
Thanks Emile / Thanks Eric


The from __future__ import absolute_import is already used in most files
of this project but only used for importing some other modules.
All the 'tests' modules are still imported with absolute imports.

'tests' is also a top level module of the existing project and being
imported from top level scripts (scripts in the python path directory)

Relative imports don't work on top level scripts as it would raise

> ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-pack

This is a legacy project where many tools assume a certain directory
structure and where I'm kind of hesitant to move files into differnt
directories.

What's probably the most painless fix would be
- force only certain (older?) versions of pytz (which don't expose
	this issue) to be installed.
- rename tests into something else. However this will affect
	loads of files. and I had to check whether there are no
	shell scripts or custom executables, which depend on 'tests'
	being called 'tests'

Pytz is only imported by one module, so I wondered if there were any
tricks to 'change sys.path' prior to importing pytz and to make sure,
that the projects 'tests' package and pytz's 'tests' package could co-exist.

What I wondered is whether there was a way to fix the issue without
having to 'touch' all the 100+ import statements spread over the project.

In the long term I suggest, that the project's code will be changed
such that it will no more conflict with pytz's tests package.
(either rename the package, transform it to a sub package, ... ???),







From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:47:14 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:47:14 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7CkpFnRxG=Vf6uBpr3=Bn=rPZLY2L3LOA6eiGkzcQ_ZqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>	<CALFfu7Ba1nS6hAjK2HGYautHSb6bedJPvRiDsmHTQTkpy6ZbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7CkpFnRxG=Vf6uBpr3=Bn=rPZLY2L3LOA6eiGkzcQ_ZqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9k8lj$k1k$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/11/2011 10:51 PM, Eric Snow wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So if you run a module as a script, that empty string will be added to
> sys.path and all imports will first check the directory you were in
> when you ran Python...
> 

Yes that's normal (and for the rest of the code required
behaviour :-( )

The top level directory is no module, but just contains scripts
requiring, that '.' is in the python path.


In fact theissue can be reproduced rather easily.



Everything seems to work, but
I don't like having this warning.
Especially as the project contains a hook, which raises an alert as soon
as any module tries to send data to stderr. (reporting this as potential
failure of the application)

$ mkdir newdir
$ cd newdir
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ mkdir tests
$ echo print 1234 >  tests/__init__.py
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ python -c 'import tests ; import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION ;
reload(tests)'
1234
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
Module tests was already imported from tests/__init__.pyc, but
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
  from pkg_resources import resource_stream
2010b
1234
$


What does pytz want to tell me ?????



From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 19:20:09 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xmlrpclib date times and a trailing Z
Message-ID: <7d3e9e96-687f-4081-990e-46b7bb386925@d5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to connect to Marchex's a call tracking software using
xmlrpclib. I was able to get some code working, but I ran into a
problem dealing with transfering datetimes.

When I construct a xmlrpclib.ServerProxy, I am setting the
use_datetime flag to indicate that I want to automatically convert
back and forth between date times in the datetime library.

I have a working version that doesn't use this flag, and I have to
convert from the xmlrpclib.DateTime type to the datetime.datetime type
manually, via string parsing.

The thing is, Marchex's API returns date's with a trailing Z, after
the time component. I did some research and this is supposed to be an
indicator that UTC was used. However, it doesn't seem like the
xmlrpclib likes it very much.

It looks like it is using this code internally: time.strptime(data, "%Y
%m%dT%H:%M:%S")

This code doesn't look like it handles time zones at all. I guess, is
there a way to tell xmlrpclib to include time zones when parsing date
times?

Thanks,
Travis Parks


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 11 19:42:46 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 00:42:46 GMT
Subject: resolving module name conflicts.
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org> <j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2662.1321049516.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebdc106$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:11:38 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:

> Pytz is only imported by one module, so I wondered if there were any
> tricks to 'change sys.path' prior to importing pytz


sys.path is just a list of paths. You can import the sys module and 
manipulate it any way you like.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 11 20:18:26 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 01:18:26 GMT
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:35:32 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

>> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
>> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
>> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
>> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?
> 
> Then why doesn't Python do this anywhere else? e.g. why can I
> setattr(obj, 'a#b') when obj is any other mutable type?

That is implementation-specific behaviour and not documented behaviour 
for Python. If you try it in (say) IronPython or Jython, you may or may 
not see the same behaviour.

The docs for getattr state:

    getattr(x, 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar


which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b which 
will give a syntax error. The fact that CPython does less validation is 
arguably a bug and not something that you should rely on: it is *not* a 
promise of the language.

As Terry Reedy already mentioned, the namespace used in classes and 
instances are ordinary generic dicts, which don't perform any name 
validation. That's done for speed. Other implementations may use 
namespaces that enforce legal names for attributes, and __slots__ already 
does:

>>> class X(object):
...     __slots__ = ['a', 'b!']
... 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    __slots__ must be identifiers


[...]
> To go off on another tangent, though, I don't really understand how you
> guys can think this is reasonable, though. I don't get this philosophy
> of restricting inputs that would otherwise be perfectly valid

But they aren't perfectly valid. They are invalid inputs. Just because 
getattr and setattr in CPython allow you to create attributes with 
invalid names doesn't mean that everything else should be equally as 
slack.


-- 
Steven


From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 20:46:49 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:46:49 +0100
Subject: resolving module name conflicts. (pytz version 2010b)
In-Reply-To: <4ebdc106$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <j9k0g5$rir$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<j9k43m$kod$1@dough.gmane.org>	<mailman.2662.1321049516.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc106$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j9kj69$geg$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/12/2011 01:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:11:38 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:
> 
>> Pytz is only imported by one module, so I wondered if there were any
>> tricks to 'change sys.path' prior to importing pytz
> 
> sys.path is just a list of paths. You can import the sys module and 
> manipulate it any way you like.
> 

Hmmm, I think I didn't express myself really well.

What I meant is:

Is there any successful trick, which can get rid of my warning.
I don't feel comfortable with warnings, that I don't understand.


Please see  below example (which can easily be reproduced, if you have
the right (wrong) version of pytz.


$ mkdir newdir
$ cd newdir
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ mkdir tests
$ echo print 1234 >  tests/__init__.py
$ python -c 'import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION'
2010b
$ python -c 'import tests ; import pytz ; print pytz.VERSION ;
reload(tests)'
1234

/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pytz/__init__.py:32: UserWarning:
Module tests was already imported from tests/__init__.pyc, but
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is being added to sys.path
  from pkg_resources import resource_stream
2010b
1234
$


What does pytz want to tell me ?????








From candide at free.invalid  Sat Nov 12 06:56:17 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:56:17 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
Message-ID: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

First, could you confirm the following syntax

import foo as f

equivalent to

import foo
f = foo



Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of the 
as syntax within an import statement. Here are some instances retrieved 
from real code of such a syntax

import numpy as np

import math as _math

import pickle as pickle


-- In the first case, the syntax is motivated by brevity need, isn't it ?
-- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math 
attribute to be private but I don't figure out why this matters.
-- In the last case, I can see no point

So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

Thanks for clarification.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 07:27:56 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:27:56 +1100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr1zfS9H5LJtLfqOpS0+BKOuQ_CEbxzcHWn_Fv+JqC-BA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> import foo as f
>
> equivalent to
>
> import foo
> f = foo
>

Not quite, it's closer to:

import foo
f = foo
del foo

without the fiddling around. What the 'import... as' syntax gives is a
way to separate the thing loaded from the name bound to. Suppose
importing were done thus:

foo = import("foo.py")

Then you'd have a standard convention of always importing into a
variable of the same name (loose terminology, but you know what I
mean), with the option of importing as something completely different.
The "import... as" syntax gives the same power, without forcing you to
repeat yourself in the common situation.

ChrisA


From arnodel at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 07:29:26 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:29:26 +0000
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Ya=vLyYip_w7LopF0wBD2EZcc7-LOGBVTr0vhb+2ZQNg@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 November 2011 11:56, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> First, could you confirm the following syntax
>
> import foo as f
>
> equivalent to
>
> import foo
> f = foo
>
>
>
> Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of the as
> syntax within an import statement. Here are some instances retrieved from
> real code of such a syntax
>
> import numpy as np
>
> import math as _math
>
> import pickle as pickle
>
>
> -- In the first case, the syntax is motivated by brevity need, isn't it ?

Correct!

> -- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math attribute
> to be private but I don't figure out why this matters.

This way math doesn't get bound in the global namespace when doing
"from module import *"

> -- In the last case, I can see no point

Neither can I

> So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

It can also help when you want to import two different modules with
the same name.

-- 
Arnaud


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Nov 12 07:43:06 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 06:43:06 -0600
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/12/11 05:56, candide wrote:
> First, could you confirm the following syntax
>
> import foo as f
>
> equivalent to
>
> import foo
> f = foo

and the issuing "del foo"


> Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of the
> as syntax within an import statement. Here are some instances retrieved
> from real code of such a syntax
>
> import numpy as np
> import math as _math
> import pickle as pickle
>
> -- In the last case, I can see no point

Without context, I'm guessing the last one is merely keeping 
parity in a block that reads:

   try:
     import cPickle as pickle
   except ImportError:
     import pickle as pickle



> So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

The most common use-case I see is your first:  to shorten a 
frequently-used namespace.  I do this frequently with

   import Tkinter as tk

which makes it obvious where things are coming from.  I hate 
trying to track down variable-names if one did something like

   from Tkinter import *


The second big use case I see regularly is the full example 
(above):  try to import a faster/native module that shares an 
interface with a pure-python implementation.  However in the 
above, the "import pickle as pickle" is a uselessly redundant.

-tkc




From rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 07:48:04 2011
From: rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rafael_Dur=E1n_Casta=F1eda?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:48:04 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4EBE6B04.6040900@gmail.com>

El 12/11/11 13:43, Tim Chase escribi?:
>   I hate trying to track down variable-names if one did something like
>
>   from Tkinter import *
>
+1


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Sat Nov 12 08:03:29 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:03:29 +0000
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1321103009.23677.32.camel@tim-laptop>

On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 12:56 +0100, candide wrote:

> So what is the pragmatics of the as syntax ?

Another case:

try:
    import json
except:
    import simplejson as json


(same goes for several modules where the C implementation may or may not
be available)

Tim



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Nov 12 08:59:40 2011
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:59:40 -0500
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <j9lu4p$qqa$1@speranza.aioe.org>

candide wrote:

> First, could you confirm the following syntax
> 
> import foo as f
> 
> equivalent to
> 
> import foo
> f = foo
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I was wondering about the usefulness in everyday programming of 
the
> as syntax within an import statement. [ ... ]

It gives you an out in a case like

Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:09:56) 
[GCC 4.4.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> os = 5      # number of 'o's
>>> import os as opsys
>>> os
5
>>> opsys
<module 'os' from '/usr/lib/python2.6/os.pyc'>

(This is an instance of what arnaud mentioned.)

	Mel.


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From tavares at fe.up.pt  Sat Nov 12 10:05:05 2011
From: tavares at fe.up.pt (tavares at fe.up.pt)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:05:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?CMBBE2012_=96_Special_Session_on_=93Computational_Me?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?thods_for_Bio=2D_Imaging_and_Visualization=94?=
Message-ID: <f689f580-9631-41f8-bd8b-3f73671bb85e@n14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

Dear Colleague,

Within the 10th International Symposium on Biomechanics and Biomedical
Engineering - CMBBE2012 (http://www.cmbbe2012.cf.ac.uk), to be held in
Berlin, Germany, on April 11-14, 2012, we are organizing the Special
Session on ?Computational Methods for Bio- Imaging and Visualization?.
Due to your research activities in the related fields, we would like
to invite you to submit an abstract to our special session. Your
contribution is mostly welcomed, and we would be honoured if you could
accept this invitation.


TOPICS OF INTEREST (not restricted to):

- Applications of Bio- Imaging and Visualization;
- Computational Vision;
- Computer Aided Diagnosis, Surgery, Therapy, and Treatment;
- Image Acquisition;
- Image Processing and Analysis;
- Image Segmentation, Matching and Registration;
- Medical Imaging;
- Motion and Deformation Analysis;
- Physics of Bio-Imaging;
- Scientific Visualization;
- Shape Reconstruction;
- Simulation and Animation;
- Software Development;
- Telemedicine Systems and their Applications.


IMPORTANT DATES:

- Abstract submission cut off: December 16, 2011;
- Meeting: April 11-14, 2012.


ABSTRACT SUBMISSION:

Please, go to the abstract submission page (http://
www.cmbbe2012.cf.ac.uk/abstract%20-%20author.asp) and select the
Special Session ?SS5 - Computational Methods for Bio- Imaging and
Visualization?.


With kind regards,

Jo?o Manuel R. S. Tavares, University of Porto, Portugal,
tavares at fe.up.pt
(Organizer of the Special Session on ?Computational Methods for Bio-
Imaging and Visualization?)


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 11:11:21 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python ORMs Supporting POPOs and Substituting Layers in Django
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	<mailman.2532.1320729013.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb929020-f4e3-4966-8826-4aa9f6d15c9a@u5g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 8, 12:09?am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/08/2011 01:21 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 7, 12:44 pm, John Gordon<gor... at panix.com> ?wrote:
> >> In<j98tnf$qh... at reader1.panix.com> ?John Gordon<gor... at panix.com> ?writes:
>
> >>> In<415d875d-bc6d-4e69-bcf8-39754b450... at n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> ?Travis Parks<jehugalea... at gmail.com> ?writes:
> >>>> Which web frameworks have people here used and which have they found
> >>>> to be: scalable, RAD compatible, performant, stable and/or providing
> >>>> good community support? I am really trying to get as much feedback as
> >>> I've used Django and it seems to be a very nice framework. ?However I've
> >>> only done one project so I haven't delved too deeply.
>
> >> You are probably looking for more detail than "It's a nice framework" :-)
>
> >> The database model in Django is powerful; it allows you to do queries in
> >> native Python code without delving into backend SQL stuff.
>
> >> I don't know how scalable/performant the database model is, as the one
> >> project I worked on didn't deal with a ton of data. ?(But I'd be surprised
> >> if it had poor performance.)
>
> >> The URL dispatcher provides a very nice and logical way to associate a
> >> given URL with a given method call.
>
> >> Community support is excellent.
>
> >> --
> >> John Gordon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> >> gor... at panix.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ?B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
>
> > I started the battle today. The "new guy" was trying to sell me on
> > CodeIgnitor. I haven't looked at it, but it is PHP, so I really want
> > to avoid it. The good thing is that all of his "friends" have been
> > telling him to get into Python. I have been trying to convince him
> > that PHP isn't cut out for background services and is mostly a front-
> > end language. Python is much more geared towards hardcore data
> > processing. Why write the system in two languages?
>
> > I have been spending a lot of time looking at the Pyramid project: the
> > next generation of the Pylons project. It looks powerful, but it seems
> > to be a lot more complex than Django.
>
> CodeIgniter is a very fine framework, however it builds on top of a
> shitty excuse of a language called PHP.
>
> I've found that Django has a much better debugging tools; when a Django
> page produces an exception, it would always produce a useful error page.
> I haven't been able to do the same in CodeIgniter (nor in any PHP
> framework I've used, I'm starting to think it's a language limitation);
> often when you have errors, PHP would just silently return empty or
> partial pages even with all the debugging flags on.
>
> IMO, Python has a much nicer choice of built-in data structure for data
> processing. Python has a much more mature object-orientation, e.g. I
> prefer writing l.append(x) rather than array_push(l, x). I think these
> qualities are what makes you think Python is much, much more suitable
> for data processing than PHP; and I wholesomely agree.
>
> Database abstraction-wise, Django's ORM wins hands down against
> CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord. CodeIgniter's ActiveRecord is basically just
> a thin wrapper that abstracts the perks of various database engine.
> Django's ORM is a full blown ORM, it handles foreign key relationships
> in OO way. The only disadvantage of Django's ORM is that since it's
> written in Python, if you need to write a program working on the same
> database that doesn't use Django nor Python, then you'll have a problem
> since you'll have to duplicate the foreign key relationships.
>
> With all the bashing of PHP, PHP do have a few advantages. PHP and
> CodeIgniter is much easier to set up and running than Django; and the
> ability to create a .php file and have it running without having to
> write the routing file is sometimes a bliss. And PHP are often used as
> their own templating language; in contrast with Django which uses a
> separate templating language. Having a full blown language as your
> templating language can be a double-edged sword, but it is useful
> nevertheless for experimental work.
>
> IMO, while it is easier to get up and running in PHP, in the long run
> Python is much better in almost any other aspects.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The good thing is that I got the new guy to convert his thinking
towards Python. He did a little research of his own and realized what
he was missing.

He and I have been writing some tools in Python, accessing social
networking sites, and have been pleasantly surprised by Python's rich
support for web protocols. Even yesterday, I wrote some code using
xmlrpclib and it blew the equivalent C# code out of the water. urllib2
and urlparse make it really easy to work against RESTful services. It
seems like most of Google's APIs have a Python variant.

We are thinking we will go along with Pyramid, rather than Django. It
was a really hard decision to make. Django has a lot of community
support and is integrated with PyDev in eclipse. Nonetheless, we are
anticipating the need for massive through-put on our web servers, so
we want to make sure we don't have to change gears 2 years down the
road when we have 100,000+ users. Furthermore, it seems like Django
doesn't allow for customization - we might want to switch between ORMs
and the template engine.

It is going to be an interesting process of moving from an ASP.NET MVC
application to 100% Python. We'll see how well we can scaffold them
together.


From krzysztof.berniak at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 13:54:12 2011
From: krzysztof.berniak at gmail.com (Krzysztof Berniak)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:54:12 +0100
Subject: export output from gnuplot to python
Message-ID: <CAJBOCFJSEexypqVeMas8c-Hv4nFMYJ07uA2BwmFXo1TtEYMAEw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm writing script in python, which fitting exponencial curve to data (
f(x) = a*exp(x*b).
To this problem, I use gnuplot in my script. Gnuplot display parameters ( a
+/- delta a; b +/- delta b)
How Can I use/save this parameters in python variables in next steps of my
script,

def main():
   ...


    plot = Gnuplot.Gnuplot()

    plot('f1(x) = a1*exp(b1*x)')
    plot('a1 = 300; b1 = 0.005;')
    plot('fit f1(x) "data.txt" using 1:2 via a1, b1')

    print "first parameter", a1
    print "second parameter", b1   # is it feasible ? Or there is another
way to see the results ( parameter a1 and b1) of gnuplot by python
    ...
    #plot('set terminal postscript')
    #plot('set output "output.p <http://output.ps/>s"')


regards and please help,
Cristopher
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From lbrt  Sat Nov 12 14:06:32 2011
From: lbrt (lbrt)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 19:06:32 GMT
Subject: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors + issues
	...
Message-ID: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>

~ 
 I did find my way (through a silly hack) to get all files within a size range without waiting for youtube-dl to be "enhanced". You could simply run youtube-dl in simulate mode and then parse that data to get the info
~ 
$ youtube-dl --help | grep simulate
    -s, --simulate           do not download the video and do not write anything to disk
    -g, --get-url            simulate, quiet but print URL
    -e, --get-title          simulate, quiet but print title
    --get-thumbnail          simulate, quiet but print thumbnail URL
    --get-description        simulate, quiet but print video description
    --get-filename           simulate, quiet but print output filename
    --get-format             simulate, quiet but print output format
~ 
 it turns out I needed the data anyway and %(uploader)s %(stitle)s and %(ext)s are helpful as well, for example, in case you decide to skip a certain uploader
~ 
 I have also been getting errors reporting:
~ 
 RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 What does it mean? Is it a youtube thing or a python/youtube-dl one (or both)? Could you fix that with some flag?
~ 
 It would be very helpful if you could redirect youtube-dl errors to a separate file you would indicate via a flag
~ 
 lbrtchx
 comp.lang.python: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors + issues ...
~ 
// __ ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD-66LHJF9E
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] TD-66LHJF9E: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] TD-66LHJF9E: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] TD-66LHJF9E: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-TD-66LHJF9E_Trading_Mom.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft5fFOktUno
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] Ft5fFOktUno: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] Ft5fFOktUno: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] Ft5fFOktUno: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-Ft5fFOktUno_Speed_Racer_The_Movie.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRbAGrIjCr4
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] wRbAGrIjCr4: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] wRbAGrIjCr4: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] wRbAGrIjCr4: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-wRbAGrIjCr4_Jonah_A_VeggieTales_Movie.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 
 downloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0KpRBkeMY
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] yU0KpRBkeMY: Downloading video webpage
[youtube] yU0KpRBkeMY: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] yU0KpRBkeMY: Extracting video information
[youtube] RTMP download detected
[download] Destination: ./LionsgateMovies-yU0KpRBkeMY_Hercules_In_New_York.flv
ERROR: RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
~ 


From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 18:53:06 2011
From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:53:06 +0100
Subject: occupywallst.org is looking for Python programmers
Message-ID: <CALUgi081HW6HAPyp5MEYHD9DAVcWEF4yjoTzdTfcjj_zOCrwNg@mail.gmail.com>

just got this from Richard:

Justine <justine at occupywallst.org> told me they are looking for Python
programmers.  (It involves Django also.)

so, if anyone is interested to help them out, please contact Justine.

Best wishes

Harald

-- 
Harald Armin Massa
no fx, no carrier pigeon
-


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 12 18:54:00 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Nov 2011 23:54:00 GMT
Subject: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors +
	issues ...
References: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4ebf0718$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:06:32 +0000, lbrt chx _ gemale wrote:

>  I have also been getting errors reporting:
> ~
>  RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
> ~
>  What does it mean? Is it a youtube thing or a python/youtube-dl one (or
>  both)? Could you fix that with some flag?

Try installing rtmpdump.

BTW, your first call before asking here about random problems should be 
to use the search engine of your choice to google for more information:

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=rtmpdump



-- 
Steven


From ramapraba2653 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 00:56:56 2011
From: ramapraba2653 at gmail.com (SUPREME)
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Subject: SOUTH INDIAN HOT ACTRESS
Message-ID: <b2366da2-7b4a-4381-a2d3-c41c1bb6cb19@s35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

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From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 01:28:31 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 01:28:31 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+RbK8Gt1bCzUA6SCWtRfXfwoFJS2WAHDjBu3bxOAypNQ@mail.gmail.com>

> which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b

No, it does not. The documentation states equivalence for two
particular values, and there is no way to deduce truth for all cases
from that. In fact, if it _was_ trying to say it was true for any
attribute value, then your example would be proof that the
documentation is incorrect, since CPython breaks that equivalence.

Devin

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:35:32 -0500, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>>> That is patently untrue. If you were implementing namedtuple without
>>> exec, you would still (or at least you *should*) prevent the user from
>>> passing invalid identifiers as attribute names. What's the point of
>>> allowing attribute names you can't actually *use* as attribute names?
>>
>> Then why doesn't Python do this anywhere else? e.g. why can I
>> setattr(obj, 'a#b') when obj is any other mutable type?
>
> That is implementation-specific behaviour and not documented behaviour
> for Python. If you try it in (say) IronPython or Jython, you may or may
> not see the same behaviour.
>
> The docs for getattr state:
>
> ? ?getattr(x, 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar
>
>
> which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b which
> will give a syntax error. The fact that CPython does less validation is
> arguably a bug and not something that you should rely on: it is *not* a
> promise of the language.
>
> As Terry Reedy already mentioned, the namespace used in classes and
> instances are ordinary generic dicts, which don't perform any name
> validation. That's done for speed. Other implementations may use
> namespaces that enforce legal names for attributes, and __slots__ already
> does:
>
>>>> class X(object):
> ... ? ? __slots__ = ['a', 'b!']
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
> ? ?__slots__ must be identifiers
>
>
> [...]
>> To go off on another tangent, though, I don't really understand how you
>> guys can think this is reasonable, though. I don't get this philosophy
>> of restricting inputs that would otherwise be perfectly valid
>
> But they aren't perfectly valid. They are invalid inputs. Just because
> getattr and setattr in CPython allow you to create attributes with
> invalid names doesn't mean that everything else should be equally as
> slack.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From oleg.rimko at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 03:55:16 2011
From: oleg.rimko at gmail.com (0xfn)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:55:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2671.1321102090.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <54b0617a-3456-4878-819c-f79b388232ea@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 12, 7:48?am, Rafael Dur?n Casta?eda
<rafadurancastan... at gmail.com> wrote:
> El 12/11/11 13:43, Tim Chase escribi?:> ? I hate trying to track down variable-names if one did something like
>
> > ? from Tkinter import *
>
> +1

Really, this questionable code is always mentioned as example in
Tkinter tuts.
IMHO much better is
>>> import Tkinter as tk
In common case `as` is useful when:
1. You `import ThirdPartyModuleWithTerriblyLongName as tpm`
2. Whant to free some common variable name, which is engaged by module
name by default
   (right what Mel Wilson has pictured)


From anssi.kaariainen at thl.fi  Sun Nov 13 07:28:16 2011
From: anssi.kaariainen at thl.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?K=E4=E4ri=E4inen_Anssi?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:28:16 +0200
Subject: Dynamically altering __init__
In-Reply-To: <BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A78864133088@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>
References: <BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A78864133085@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>,
	<CALwzidkhEv9-HXhj5L02gABjGe2Yw5nEOz9KKaR8ONxYXNMeKQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A78864133088@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>
Message-ID: <BC19EF15D84DC143A22D6A8F2590F0A7886413311F@EXMAIL.stakes.fi>

I wrote:
"""
I will post a link to a complete example once I have done the AST
transformations etc. I hope this will be useful to readers of this list.
I didn't find such an example, so maybe the next asker will find it...
"""

Finally got time to do this. The example can be found at:
https://github.com/akaariai/ast_model

In the example I rewrote a small part of Django's model __init__ to
use:
    self.field1, self.field2, ... = args
instead of:
    for f_name, val in izip(field_names, args):
        setattr(self, f_name, val)

The speedup of that rewrote is about 50% for a model having 10 fields.

The example implementation might not be optimal, but it seems to
work. I hope it will be useful to the readers of this list. It was a nice
learning experience for me.

Thanks for your help,
 - Anssi K??ri?inen


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov 13 08:30:37 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 13 Nov 2011 13:30:37 GMT
Subject: How to indent blocks when readline completion is on?
Message-ID: <4ebfc67c$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I have set up readline completion as described here:

http://docs.python.org/library/rlcompleter.html

Now how do I indent blocks in the interactive interpreter? If I press the 
TAB key, the completer prompts me instead of indenting:

>>> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>>> while True:
... 
Display all 182 possibilities? (y or n)
... 


Surely I'm not stuck with indenting by manually typing spaces?


I thought I could add a wrapper around the rlcompleter method, like this:

>>> import readline
>>> import rlcompleter
>>> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>>> completer = readline.get_completer()
>>> def wrapped_completer(text, state):
...     if not text or text.isspace():
...         return "\t"
...     else:
...         return completer(text, state)
... 
>>> readline.set_completer(wrapped_completer)


Completion appears to work if I have something in the line to start with, 
e.g. if I type "whi" TAB "Tr" TAB I get "while True", but if I press TAB 
on an empty line (intending to get an actual tab character for 
indentation), it plays merry havoc with my session. All keyboard input 
appears to be dead, eventually I used Ctrl-Z to interrupt the process and 
killed it from the shell.


-- 
Steven


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 08:32:39 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:32:39 +1100
Subject: socket.socket.makefile
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1NEVsB2skb2jCiLRpvK_tOvAh3+ukRVcSeW4tDN_30-ag@mail.gmail.com>

I'm writing an alternative socket module, and have come across the
code for the makefile call, which mentions the following:
(XXX refactor to share code?)
http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/27adb952813b/Lib/socket.py#l149
Has this been refactored elsewhere? Is there something I can use to
wrap the SocketIO inheriting from RawIOBase in all the variants the
io.open/socket.makefile functions return for me?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 09:40:28 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 01:40:28 +1100
Subject: How to indent blocks when readline completion is on?
In-Reply-To: <4ebfc67c$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ebfc67c$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoG+GV4h+Q4L9RLOepmOXW8knU-yPDhAK=Qq1KEUxkDfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I thought I could add a wrapper around the rlcompleter method, like this:
>
>>>> import readline
>>>> import rlcompleter
>>>> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>>>> completer = readline.get_completer()
>>>> def wrapped_completer(text, state):
> ... ? ? if not text or text.isspace():
> ... ? ? ? ? return "\t"
> ... ? ? else:
> ... ? ? ? ? return completer(text, state)
> ...
>>>> readline.set_completer(wrapped_completer)

Attempting to duplicate this failed in my Py3 (no readline module -
probably I didn't have the dev version when I built that Python), but
in Py2, I can see the same issue. The wrapped_completer function is
called repeatedly with successive values for 'state', and it needs to
return None at some point to indicate that there are no more
possibilities. (Why isn't it specced to simply return an iterable?)

>>> def wrapped_completer(text, state):
...     if not text or text.isspace():
...         if state: return None
...         return "\t"
...     else:
...         return completer(text, state)
...

This function appears (to me!) to do what you're looking for; it
allows me to enter tabs while still using tab completion. However, I
seem to have some slightly different tab-completion settings somewhere
(for instance, typing "whi" <TAB> produces "while" with no space after
it, so I need to type " Tr" not "Tr"), so this may not work on your
setup.

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 12:37:25 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 09:37:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xmlrpclib date times and a trailing Z
References: <7d3e9e96-687f-4081-990e-46b7bb386925@d5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8009b627-be86-495f-85d7-8fac6522fe8d@y12g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 7:20?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to connect to Marchex's a call tracking software using
> xmlrpclib. I was able to get some code working, but I ran into a
> problem dealing with transfering datetimes.
>
> When I construct a xmlrpclib.ServerProxy, I am setting the
> use_datetime flag to indicate that I want to automatically convert
> back and forth between date times in the datetime library.
>
> I have a working version that doesn't use this flag, and I have to
> convert from the xmlrpclib.DateTime type to the datetime.datetime type
> manually, via string parsing.
>
> The thing is, Marchex's API returns date's with a trailing Z, after
> the time component. I did some research and this is supposed to be an
> indicator that UTC was used. However, it doesn't seem like the
> xmlrpclib likes it very much.
>
> It looks like it is using this code internally: time.strptime(data, "%Y
> %m%dT%H:%M:%S")
>
> This code doesn't look like it handles time zones at all. I guess, is
> there a way to tell xmlrpclib to include time zones when parsing date
> times?
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

I did some chatting on IRC and it seems that the date/time format is
not very well defined in XML RPC specs. So, basically, Marchex is
using a format that the XML RPC library doesn't support. Strangely,
Marchex supports incoming dates with the format yyyyMMddThhmmss. It
just spits dates back out with yyyy-MM-ddThh:mm:ssZ. The ISO8601
standard seems to be used a lot, so it is surprising the library
doesn't try multiple formats, at least.

I find it strange that the library, in light of the fact that date
formats aren't standardized, doesn't provide the ability to configure
this. I also find it strange that the library doesn't incorporate
Basic Authentication using urllib2, but instead rolls its own method
of putting username:password@ before the netloc.

I wish Python's libraries acted more like an integrated framework than
just unrelated libraries. I suppose I am spoiled from years of working
with all-in-one frameworks managed by a single group. That is not the
way C/C++ works or how Linux works. The power generated by using a
conglomeration of unrelated libraries is indisputable, even if it can
be a productivity killer and just plain confusing.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sun Nov 13 12:46:18 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 09:46:18 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
Message-ID: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>

For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then 
something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any 
better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went 
OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I 
went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to 
write over the python25 folder.

I figured maybe I should ask about this. It's probably OK. Yes, I know I 
have an old version of Python, but I need it occasionally.

Comments?


From steve at sprangle.com  Sun Nov 13 13:17:59 2011
From: steve at sprangle.com (Steve Edlefsen)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:17:59 -0700
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
Message-ID: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to install a tool for Plone called ZopeSkel, but
when I run the setup file ez_setup.py, I get

dr_shred at merle:~$ ez_setup.py
Downloading 
http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.4/s/setuptools/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.4.egg
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/dr_shred/python/ez_setup.py", line 279, in ?
     main(sys.argv[1:])
   File "/home/dr_shred/python/ez_setup.py", line 213, in main
     from setuptools.command.easy_install import main
zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available

I believe this means the python installation didn't include zlib.  Python
was installed with Plone and has the following config directory:

dr_shred at merle:/usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config$ ls -l
total 10208
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     2139 2011-10-24 17:53 config.c
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     1507 2011-10-24 17:53 config.c.in
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root     7122 2011-10-24 17:53 install-sh
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10342706 2011-10-24 17:53 libpython2.6.a
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    42568 2011-10-24 17:53 Makefile
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root     7431 2011-10-24 17:53 makesetup
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     6528 2011-10-24 17:53 python.o
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    18265 2011-10-24 17:53 Setup
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root      368 2011-10-24 17:53 Setup.config
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root       41 2011-10-24 17:53 Setup.local

There's no readme file, or anything to describe how it all works.
The Setup file has an entry

zlib zlibmodule.c -I$(prefix)/include -L$(exec_prefix)/lib -lz

which appears to install zlib when python is reinstalled.  Except I
can't run make without errors and there is no configuration file.

How do I reinstall python to include zlib?

Many Thanks,

Steve Edlefsen



From jason.swails at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 13:27:05 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:27:05 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm trying my hand at creating a Tkinter application, but not having much
luck.  I'm trying to have my top level window be a series of buttons with
different options on them.  Every time a button is pressed, it opens up a
new window with options.  While that new window is open, all of the buttons
on the original window are disabled.  However, I want all of those buttons
to become active again once I quit my new window.  I can't seem to
reactivate those buttons no matter what I do.

This is the approach I'm trying:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from Tkinter import *

class ActionButton(Button):
   def __init__(self, frame, text):
      self.frame = frame
      Button.__init__(self, master=self.frame, text=text,
command=self.execute)
   def execute(self):
      window = Toplevel()
      new_button = ActionButton(window, '2nd level button')
      quit_button = Button(window, text='Quit!', command=window.destroy)
      window.buttons = [new_button, quit_button]
      for button in window.buttons: button.pack()
      # Deactivate buttons from containing shell
      for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=DISABLED)
      window.mainloop()
      for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=ACTIVE)


top = Tk()
top_button = ActionButton(top, 'Button on top!')
top_button.pack()
quit_button = Button(top, text='Quit', command=top.destroy)
quit_button.pack()

top.buttons = [top_button, quit_button]

top.mainloop()

I'm really kind of running around in the dark here, so any advice or
explanation is appreciated.

Thanks!
Jason
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From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Sun Nov 13 14:08:32 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:08:32 +0100
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec015b0$0$6927$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 13-11-11 18:46, W. eWatson wrote:
> For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then
> something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any
> better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went
> OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I
> went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to
> write over the python25 folder.
>
> I figured maybe I should ask about this. It's probably OK. Yes, I know I
> have an old version of Python, but I need it occasionally.
>
> Comments?

Just go ahead and manually delete c:\python25 and everything in it.
But make sure that the leftover stuff in there is something you won't 
need again, or that you can get back by re-installing the third party 
library that it was part of.

Then re-install from the 2.5.2 msi. (Or perhaps 2.5.4).

Irmen



From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Sun Nov 13 16:55:05 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:55:05 +0000
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>
Message-ID: <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>

On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 11:17 -0700, Steve Edlefsen wrote:
> 
> which appears to install zlib when python is reinstalled.  Except I
> can't run make without errors and there is no configuration file.
> 
> How do I reinstall python to include zlib?

Which OS are you on? Linux? BSD?

How did you install Plone?

First I'd check if there's a module shadowing the builtin zlib module -
i.e. if you've got a local file called "zlib.py" which is getting
imported by mistake.


Fairly much all *nix systems will have a python installation out of the
box - it looks like you need python2.6

I've never had a missing zlib module - but it's possible that it might
be missing if you don't have the zlib/deflate headers installed - if
they're not available then I'd try installing them and then reinstalling
the package you started with.

Tim Wintle



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 13 17:08:53 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:08:53 -0500
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9pf5n$27v$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/13/2011 12:46 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then
> something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any
> better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went
> OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I
> went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to
> write over the python25 folder.

Uninstall (should) only uninstall files that it installed and 
directories that are empty. The 'several py files' should be files that 
you or some third-party software installed. I personally put everything 
I write under /pythonxy in a subdirectory thereof that install and 
uninstall pay no attention to. The Lib directory contains all the 
python-coded stdlib modules. Unless you know there is something that you 
wrote that you want, I would delete it before re-installing.

I suspect that current installers work a bit better than 2.5. I would 
definitely use the latest 2.5.z that comes with an installer and not 
2.5.2. They are all the same version of the language. The only 
difference is bug fixes.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 13 17:16:38 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:16:38 -0500
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <54b0617a-3456-4878-819c-f79b388232ea@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4EBE69DA.2060501@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2671.1321102090.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<54b0617a-3456-4878-819c-f79b388232ea@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9pfk7$50s$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/13/2011 3:55 AM, 0xfn wrote:
> On Nov 12, 7:48 am, Rafael Dur?n Casta?eda
> <rafadurancastan... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> El 12/11/11 13:43, Tim Chase escribi?:>     I hate trying to track down variable-names if one did something like
>>
>>>    from Tkinter import *
>>
>> +1
>
> Really, this questionable code is always mentioned as example in
> Tkinter tuts.

I see it is still in the 3.2 tkinter doc, near the top.

> IMHO much better is
>>>> import Tkinter as tk

My opinion also. I will think about changing it someday, but then all 
the examples will need to be changed ;-). So it will not be trivial.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From goldtech at worldpost.com  Sun Nov 13 17:37:01 2011
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trying to write beautifulsoup result to a file and get error message
Message-ID: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

If I try:
...
soup = BeautifulSoup(ft3)
f = open(r'c:\NewFolder\clean4.html', "w")
f.write(soup)
f.close()

I get error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\user01\Desktop\py\tb1a.py", line
203, in <module>
    f.write(soup)
TypeError: expected a character buffer object

I want to write beautiful soup's result to a file, I am doing
something wrong. Help appreciated.

Thanks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Nov 13 18:31:52 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:31:52 +0000
Subject: Trying to write beautifulsoup result to a file and get error
	message
In-Reply-To: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC05368.1060408@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 13/11/2011 22:37, goldtech wrote:
> If I try:
> ...
> soup = BeautifulSoup(ft3)
> f = open(r'c:\NewFolder\clean4.html', "w")
> f.write(soup)
> f.close()
>
> I get error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "C:\Documents and Settings\user01\Desktop\py\tb1a.py", line
> 203, in<module>
>      f.write(soup)
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>
> I want to write beautiful soup's result to a file, I am doing
> something wrong. Help appreciated.
>
What do you mean by "beautiful soup's result"?

The original HTML is text, and you want it to write some text to the
file, but what exactly are you expecting it to write?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sun Nov 13 19:06:50 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:06:50 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/13/2011 2:08 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/13/2011 12:46 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> For many months I had sporadically used 2.5.2 under Win 7, then
>> something went awry. I tried an uninstall/install and it didn't get any
>> better. I thought I'd take another shot at it today. The uninstall went
>> OK, but c:\python25 remained with several py files and a folder, Lib. I
>> went ahead with the install and got a msg that asked if I wanted to
>> write over the python25 folder.
>
> Uninstall (should) only uninstall files that it installed and
> directories that are empty. The 'several py files' should be files that
> you or some third-party software installed. I personally put everything
> I write under /pythonxy in a subdirectory thereof that install and
> uninstall pay no attention to. The Lib directory contains all the
> python-coded stdlib modules. Unless you know there is something that you
> wrote that you want, I would delete it before re-installing.
>
> I suspect that current installers work a bit better than 2.5. I would
> definitely use the latest 2.5.z that comes with an installer and not
> 2.5.2. They are all the same version of the language. The only
> difference is bug fixes.
>
Thanks to both of you. Deleting python25 folder. Nothing of personal use 
in it.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sun Nov 13 19:17:11 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:17:11 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>

Well, let be a careful a little more. I have PIL, numpy, scipy, 
pymatplotlib and pyephem installed, I think. There are Remove....exe 
files in the python25 folder for them.  There's also a Removepy2exe.exe. 
Probably that was somehow used to get out py2.5.


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sun Nov 13 19:27:35 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:27:35 +0900
Subject: [ANN] PikoTest.py - a small testing library
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rts8MYZGU6F-Ktb-bsVK622x9ozT0G2b4OyE8LQSsy4eQ@mail.gmail.com>

I released PikoTest.py 0.1.0.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PicoTest

PikoTest.py is a samll testing library for Python.

Features:

* Structured Test
* Setup/Teardown
* Fixture Injection
* Skip Test
* TODO

Example::

    from __future__ import with_statement
    import picotest
    test = picotest.new()

    with test("type 'str'"):

        with test("operator '*'"):

            @test("repeats string N times.")
            def _(self):
                self.assertEqual("AAA", "A" * 3)

            @test("returns empty string when N is negative.")
            def _(self):
                self.assertEqual("", "A" * -1)

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        picotest.main()


Output example::

    $ python -m picotest -h        # show help
    $ python example_test.py       # or python -m picotest example_test.py
    #### example_test.py
    * type 'str'
      * operator '*'
        - [passed] repeats string N times.
        - [passed] returns empty string when N is negative.
    ## total:2, passed:2, failed:0, error:0, skipped:0, todo:0


See http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PicoTest for details.

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From vugluskr at vugluskr.org.ua  Sun Nov 13 19:58:44 2011
From: vugluskr at vugluskr.org.ua (=?UTF-8?B?0JHQvtCz0YPQvSDQlNC80LjRgtGA0LjQuQ==?=)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:58:44 +0200
Subject: Slave to master auto linking.
Message-ID: <4EC067C4.7040009@vugluskr.org.ua>

Hello.
I try make some weird thing. I want to get from code like this:
class master:
     ...
     class slave:
         ...

m = master()
s = m.slave()
s.master is m

Last expression must be true. I want link "master" to be set 
automatically by master object while creating slave object. Additional 
requirement - "master" link must be available for constructor of slave 
object.

Best what I can get is:

import functools
from weakref import WeakKeyDictionary
from threading import RLock

class meth_wrap(object):
     def __init__(self, func):
         object.__init__(self)
         self.func = func
         functools.update_wrapper(self, func, updated=())

class lazy_attr(meth_wrap):
     def __get__(self, obj, type=None):
         if obj is None:
             return self
         val = self.func(obj)
         setattr(obj, self.__name__, val)
         return val

class slave_mixin(object):
     @lazy_attr
     def master(self):
         m = slave_gen._unbound_master
         assert m is not None, '"Slave" object can\'t find master link. 
Is it was correctly created? obj:%s' % repr(self)
         return m

class slave_gen(meth_wrap):
     _storage = WeakKeyDictionary()
     # ???????????? ?????????
     _unbound_master = None
     _lock = RLock()

     def __get__(self, mobj, type=None):
         if mobj is None:
             return self.func
         d = {
             'm': mobj,
             'w': self}
         obj = self.delay_init()
         self._storage[obj] = d
         functools.update_wrapper(obj, self.func, updated=())
         return obj

     class delay_init(object):
         def __call__(self, *args, **kw_args):
             d = slave_gen._storage[self]
             slave_gen._lock.acquire()
             try:
                 slave_gen._unbound_master = d['m']
                 obj = d['w'].func(*args, **kw_args)
                 obj.master = d['m']
                 slave_gen._unbound_master = None
             finally:
                 slave_gen._lock.release()
             return obj

         def __getattr__(self, attr):
             d = slave_gen._storage[self]
             return getattr(d['m'], attr)
         def __setattr__(self, attr, val):
             d = slave_gen._storage[self]
             return setattr(d['m'], attr, val)

class Master(object):
     @slave_gen
     class Slave(slave_mixin):
         def __init__(self):
             slave_mixin.__init__(self)
             print 'Slave.__init__: self.master: ', self.master

if __name__ == '__main__':
     m = Master()
     s = m.Slave()
     print 's.master: ', s.master

It works, by looking little weird... and I can't find way to escape from 
using lock at object creation phase. It can be done by adding mandatory 
attribute to slave class constructor, but this is even worse(for me) 
than using lock.

Please show me more clear way to make this slave to master link.

PS Sorry for my English.

-- 
????? ??????? aka vugluskr



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 21:15:05 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:15:05 +1100
Subject: Slave to master auto linking.
In-Reply-To: <4EC067C4.7040009@vugluskr.org.ua>
References: <4EC067C4.7040009@vugluskr.org.ua>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrJcjAAGA6U0QeyWgGePEO0+ARQG_1iQe-tqhYAC_4pqQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/14 ????? ??????? <vugluskr at vugluskr.org.ua>:
> m = master()
> s = m.slave()
> s.master is m
>

Can you simply have m.slave() pass a parameter to the slave's constructor?

class Master(object):
   class Slave(object):
       def __init__(self,master):
           self.master=master
           print 'Slave.__init__: self.master: ', self.master
   def slave(self):
       return self.Slave(self)

Alternatively, you don't have to nest the classes at all:

class Slave(object):
   def __init__(self,master):
      self.master=master
      print 'Slave.__init__: self.master: ', self.master

class Master(object):
   def slave(self):
       return Slave(self)

By passing 'self' to the Slave() constructor, I give the slave a
chance to keep a reference to its own master.

Chris Angelico


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 21:50:33 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:50:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2677.1321165756.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2b46d46c-f66d-4a13-8c0b-af9b6c638863@h30g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 13, 4:28?pm, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b
>
> No, it does not. The documentation states equivalence for two
> particular values

It states equivalence for two values _based on the name_.

"If the string is the name of one of the object?s attributes, the
result is the value of that attribute. For example, getattr(x,
'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar."

The string 'a!b' is the name of the attribute, ergo getattr(x, 'a!b')
_is_ x.a!b. If x.a!b isn't valid CPython, then etc.

> CPython breaks that equivalence

So you're outright ignoring the comments that this behaviour is to
make CPython more performant?


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 23:48:45 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:48:45 -0500
Subject: all() is slow?
In-Reply-To: <2b46d46c-f66d-4a13-8c0b-af9b6c638863@h30g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
	<436fb6a3-1075-45a6-8f93-5612d050b11a@q35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqESQc2HrMNSKLbnG5C8fvrOQvaPme0vTN9VS9eQkndFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2558.1320799508.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4eb9e9c2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2577.1320879720.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebb08b6$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+KkQ8Of4a84TM5nN+ZSh-TBioboLZ9VX1JNzw8G2bToQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EBC1B54.6000308@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2621.1320957468.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebc592b$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2638.1320986176.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ebdc961$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2677.1321165756.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2b46d46c-f66d-4a13-8c0b-af9b6c638863@h30g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+9FUGY8jushRJq90B3w4wFAbNz0xpSqsMqZ-BLTb-Drw@mail.gmail.com>

> It states equivalence for two values _based on the name_.

I don't know what you mean. "Based on the name" doesn't mean anything
in particular to me in this context.

> So you're outright ignoring the comments that this behaviour is to
> make CPython more performant?

I don't see how I'm ignoring the comment. Yes, breaking the spec
improves performance. Is that a reason to not fix the spec, or
something?

Devin

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 9:50 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 4:28?pm, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > which implies that getattr(x, 'a!b') should be equivalent to x.a!b
>>
>> No, it does not. The documentation states equivalence for two
>> particular values
>
> It states equivalence for two values _based on the name_.
>
> "If the string is the name of one of the object?s attributes, the
> result is the value of that attribute. For example, getattr(x,
> 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar."
>
> The string 'a!b' is the name of the attribute, ergo getattr(x, 'a!b')
> _is_ x.a!b. If x.a!b isn't valid CPython, then etc.
>
>> CPython breaks that equivalence
>
> So you're outright ignoring the comments that this behaviour is to
> make CPython more performant?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 00:19:22 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:19:22 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me>

I just pushed aside the python25 folder by renaming it, and installed py 
2.5.2. However, when I try to open the simplest of py programs with 
IDLE, I get an error from Win7.

c:\Users\blah\...\junk.py is not a valid Win 32 app.

Here's one:
def abc(one):
     print "abc: ", one, " is one"

def duh(two):
     print "duh: ",abc(2)

abc(1)
duh(2)
duh("so what")
abc(36.333)



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 00:42:59 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:42:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fa9437c0-52db-49a4-a00d-f0a633468748@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 11:31 pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>         print k1
>         print k2
>
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

It might be possible to do something using a reverse dictionary and
getting rid of the nested dictionary.

This is a quick and simple 'two-way' dictionary class that works by
maintaining two dictionaries: the original key/value, and the reversed
value/key. It returns a list of keys, allowing for a value to be
assigned against more than

    from collections import defaultdict

    class TwoWayDict(dict):
        def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
            self._reversed = defaultdict(list)
            for key, val in kwargs.iteritems():
                self[key] = val

        def __setitem__(self, key, value):
            super(TwoWayDict, self).__setitem__(key, value)
            self._reversed[value].append(key)

        def getkeys(self, match):
            return self._reversed[match]

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b='foo',c=int,d='foo')
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a']
    >>> original.getkeys('foo')
    ['b', 'd']

As for the nested dictionary, you could replace it with a _single_
dictionary that uses a composite key:

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b=100)
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a', 'b']
    >>> original = TwoWayDict()
    >>> original['record1','user1'] = 'martin'
    >>> original['record1','user2'] = 'robert'
    >>> original['record2','user1'] = 'robert'
    >>> original.getkeys('robert')
    [('record1', 'user2'), ('record2', 'user1')]

> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

The TwoWayDict class removes the need to loop across the dict looking
for keys that match a value by replacing it with another dict lookup.
Reducing the nested dict to a single dict with composite keys removes
the need to traverse the outer dict to compare against its children.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 00:44:25 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:44:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get keys from a dicionary
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f921ee23-9731-4909-946f-1da173917e09@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 11, 11:31 pm, macm <moura.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I pass a nested dictionary to a function.
>
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>         print k1
>         print k2
>
> There is a fast way (trick) to get k1 and k2 as string.

It might be possible to do something using a reverse dictionary and
getting rid of the nested dictionary.

This is a quick and simple 'two-way' dictionary class that works by
maintaining two dictionaries: the original key/value, and the reversed
value/key. It returns a list of keys, allowing for a value to be
assigned against more than

    from collections import defaultdict

    class TwoWayDict(dict):
        def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
            self._reversed = defaultdict(list)
            for key, val in kwargs.iteritems():
                self[key] = val

        def __setitem__(self, key, value):
            super(TwoWayDict, self).__setitem__(key, value)
            self._reversed[value].append(key)

        def getkeys(self, match):
            return self._reversed[match]

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b='foo',c=int,d='foo')
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a']
    >>> original.getkeys('foo')
    ['b', 'd']

As for the nested dictionary, you could replace it with a _single_
dictionary that uses a composite key:

    >>> original = TwoWayDict(a=100,b=100)
    >>> original.getkeys(100)
    ['a', 'b']
    >>> original = TwoWayDict()
    >>> original['record1','user1'] = 'martin'
    >>> original['record1','user2'] = 'robert'
    >>> original['record2','user1'] = 'robert'
    >>> original.getkeys('robert')
    [('record1', 'user2'), ('record2', 'user1')]

> Whithout loop all dict. Just it!

The TwoWayDict class removes the need to loop across the dict looking
for keys that match a value by replacing it with another dict lookup.
Reducing the nested dict to a single dict with composite keys removes
the need to traverse the outer dict to compare against its children.


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 02:11:45 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:11:45 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying my hand at creating a Tkinter application, but not having much
> luck.  I'm trying to have my top level window be a series of buttons with
> different options on them.  Every time a button is pressed, it opens up a
> new window with options.  While that new window is open, all of the buttons
> on the original window are disabled.  However, I want all of those buttons
> to become active again once I quit my new window.  I can't seem to
> reactivate those buttons no matter what I do.
>
> This is the approach I'm trying:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> class ActionButton(Button):
>    def __init__(self, frame, text):
>       self.frame = frame
>       Button.__init__(self, master=self.frame, text=text,
> command=self.execute)
>    def execute(self):
>       window = Toplevel()
>       new_button = ActionButton(window, '2nd level button')
>       quit_button = Button(window, text='Quit!', command=window.destroy)
>       window.buttons = [new_button, quit_button]
>       for button in window.buttons: button.pack()
>       # Deactivate buttons from containing shell
>       for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=DISABLED)
>       window.mainloop()
>       for button in self.frame.buttons: button.config(state=ACTIVE)
>
>
> top = Tk()
> top_button = ActionButton(top, 'Button on top!')
> top_button.pack()
> quit_button = Button(top, text='Quit', command=top.destroy)
> quit_button.pack()
>
> top.buttons = [top_button, quit_button]
>
> top.mainloop()
>
> I'm really kind of running around in the dark here, so any advice or
> explanation is appreciated.
>

Another approach I think will work, and that I'm going to try, is to
subclass Toplevel and simply assign the higher-level frame/window as an
instance attribute.  Then, I can reactivate all of the buttons in the
destroy() method before calling the destroy() method of Toplevel on self.
Something like this:

[untested]

class MyToplevel(Toplevel):

   def __init__(self, root, **options):
      self.root = root
      Toplevel.__init__(self, options)
      for button in self.root.buttons: button.config(state=DISABLED)

   def destroy(self):
      for button in self.root.buttons: button.config(state=ACTIVE)
      Toplevel.destroy(self)

This allows me to avoid running "mainloop()" on a non-root Toplevel
instance, but links the re-activation of the buttons with the destruction
of the child window (which was the effect I was going for).  I must not
understand what mainloop() does, fully (does it only make sense to run it
on Tkinter.Tk()?)

Thanks!
Jason
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 03:49:03 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:49:03 +1100
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com> wrote:
> Then, I can reactivate all of the buttons in the destroy() method before
> calling the destroy() method of Toplevel on self.

Small side point that might save you some work: Instead of disabling
and enabling all the buttons, disable the whole window. I don't know
Tkinter well enough to know if there's an easy way to create a modal
window, but the thing to do is to disable the entire window rather
than just its command buttons - that's the least astonishing[1] user
interface technique.

ChrisA

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment


From mcepl at redhat.com  Mon Nov 14 05:05:40 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:05:40 +0100
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys? [Was: Re: Get keys from
	a dicionary]
In-Reply-To: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Dne 11.11.2011 14:31, macm napsal(a):
> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):

When looking at this I returned to the question which currently rolls in 
my mind:

What's difference/advantage-disadvantage betweeng doing multi-level 
dicts/arrays like this and using tuple as a key? I.e., is it more 
Pythonic to have

dict[k1,k2]

instead?

Best, Mat?j


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Mon Nov 14 05:41:52 2011
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: 14 Nov 2011 10:41:52 GMT
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
Message-ID: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>

Hi all,
i'm developing a new program.
Mission: learn a bit of database management
Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've 
seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc) 
technologies i'll use: python + gtk
db: that's the question

since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use 
sqlite at the beginning.

Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar, 
they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i 
mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
Thank you all

MedeoTL

P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to 
easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Nov 14 05:42:50 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:42:50 +0000
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys? [Was: Re: Get keys
	from a dicionary]
In-Reply-To: <j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <4EC0F0AA.4060003@timgolden.me.uk>

On 14/11/2011 10:05, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Dne 11.11.2011 14:31, macm napsal(a):
>> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
>
> When looking at this I returned to the question which currently rolls in
> my mind:
>
> What's difference/advantage-disadvantage betweeng doing multi-level
> dicts/arrays like this and using tuple as a key? I.e., is it more
> Pythonic to have
>
> dict[k1,k2]
>
> instead?

For me, it would depend on what the data meant. To give an obvious 
example: if you were storing things which were based on coords, then 
clearly map[x, y] is more meaningful than map[x][y]. Conversely, if your 
dictionary structure was, say, a set of preferences for users, then 
prefs[username][prefname] is probably a more useful model.

Sometimes it's not so clear, in which case one person might opt for one 
approach while another opted for another while modelling the same data 
concepts. If, for example, you were modelling a set of book reviews 
where each review might have one or more genres (which you could display 
as a tag-cloud, say) then you could consider the model to be
a sort of book-genre tag cloud:

book_genres[title, genre]

or a list of books in each genre:

genres[genre][title]

or a list of genres for each book:

books[title][genre]

or even multiple ways if that made it easier to use in one situation
or another.

Stating-the-obvious-ly yours,

TJG


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 14 05:47:58 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:47:58 +0100
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys?
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <j9qrku$4l0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Matej Cepl wrote:

> Dne 11.11.2011 14:31, macm napsal(a):
>> def Dicty( dict[k1][k2] ):
> 
> When looking at this I returned to the question which currently rolls in
> my mind:
> 
> What's difference/advantage-disadvantage betweeng doing multi-level
> dicts/arrays like this and using tuple as a key? I.e., is it more
> Pythonic to have
> 
> dict[k1,k2]
> 
> instead?

If you need lookup only I'd prefer tuples, but sometimes you may want to 
retrieve all values with a certain k1 and

d[k1]

is certainly more efficient than

[(k2, v) for (k1, k2), v in d.items() if k1 == wanted]




From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 05:55:43 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:55:43 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo9Tnqa7EhDKb5L4Bka_C-x3xzVqFOhU8m5pSDqypEAyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Tracubik <affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i'm developing a new program.
> Mission: learn a bit of database management

If your goal is to learn about databasing, then I strongly recommend a
real database engine.

> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
>
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

The complexity, in most cases, is a direct consequence of the job at
hand. I recommend PostgreSQL generally, although I've never used it
with Python and can't speak for the quality of the APIs.

The most important thing to consider is a separation of the back end
(the "guts") from the front end (the "interface"). Since your goal is
to explore databases, the guts of your code will basically just be
working with the database (no heavy computation or anything). Make
sure you can work with that, separately from your GUI. You may find it
easier to dispense with GTK and just work through the console; you can
always change later to make a pretty window.

If you've never worked with databases before, it may be best to skip
Python altogether and explore the fundamentals of relational database
engines. There's plenty of excellent tutorials on the web. Get to know
how things are done generally, and you'll be able to figure out how
things are done in Python.

All the best!

ChrisA


From andreas.perstinger at gmx.net  Mon Nov 14 07:06:00 2011
From: andreas.perstinger at gmx.net (Andreas Perstinger)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:06:00 +0100
Subject: Trying to write beautifulsoup result to a file and get error
	message
In-Reply-To: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ab0fb788-8925-4a72-94bd-1efbc3da62ed@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC10428.10603@gmx.net>

On 2011-11-13 23:37, goldtech wrote:
> If I try:
> ...
> soup = BeautifulSoup(ft3)
> f = open(r'c:\NewFolder\clean4.html', "w")
> f.write(soup)
> f.close()
>
> I get error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "C:\Documents and Settings\user01\Desktop\py\tb1a.py", line
> 203, in<module>
>      f.write(soup)
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>
> I want to write beautiful soup's result to a file, I am doing
> something wrong. Help appreciated.

BeautifulSoup takes a html document in the form of a string or file-like 
oject and creates an internal data-structure after parsing it:

Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:05:24)
[GCC 4.5.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from BeautifulSoup import BeautifulSoup
 >>> html = "<html><body>Demo"
 >>> soup = BeautifulSoup(html)
 >>> type(soup)
<class 'BeautifulSoup.BeautifulSoup'>

To write the modified document into a file, you have to convert this 
structur back into a string:

 >>> new_html = str(soup)
 >>> type(new_html)
<type 'str'>
 >>> new_html
'<html>\n <body>\n  Demo\n </body>\n</html>'

HTH, Andreas


From love_ram2040 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 08:48:18 2011
From: love_ram2040 at yahoo.com (porxy)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:48:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new cars2011,2012,2013
Message-ID: <3976750c-d558-4c41-a492-4e4d70a6af64@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>


Honda Insight (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/honda-insight-2012...
Audi A2 concept (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/audi-a2-concept-20...
Infiniti FX designed by Sebastian Vettel (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/infiniti-fx-design...
Smart Forvision concept (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/smart-forvision-co...
Honda Civic (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/honda-civic-2012.html
Ford Evos concept car (2011) news and pictures
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/ford-evos-concept-...
Fiat Panda (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/fiat-panda-2012.html
Peugeot HX1 concept car (2011) first news more picsere
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/peugeot-hx1-concep...
Citroen Tubik concept car (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/citroen-tubik-conc...
Skoda MissionL concept car (2011) unveiled
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/skoda-missionl-con...
Audi A5 DTM (2012)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/audi-a5-dtm-2012.html
Lambo Super Trofeo Stradale (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/lambo-super-trofeo...
Mercedes SLK55 AMG (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/mercedes-slk55-amg...
Lotus Exige S (2011)
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/lotus-exige-s-2011...
Ford Fiesta ST concept (2011) at the Frankfurt motor show
http://newscarsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/#!/2011/11/ford-fiesta-st-con...


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 14 10:24:04 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:24:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j9q8cs$3al$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> I just pushed aside the python25 folder by renaming it, and installed py 
> 2.5.2. However, when I try to open the simplest of py programs with 
> IDLE, I get an error from Win7.

> c:\Users\blah\...\junk.py is not a valid Win 32 app.

Are you double-clicking on the .py file?

What application is associated with .py files?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 10:42:27 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:42:27 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/14/2011 7:24 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<j9q8cs$3al$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> I just pushed aside the python25 folder by renaming it, and installed py
>> 2.5.2. However, when I try to open the simplest of py programs with
>> IDLE, I get an error from Win7.
>
>> c:\Users\blah\...\junk.py is not a valid Win 32 app.
>
> Are you double-clicking on the .py file?
Yes.
>
> What application is associated with .py files?

Application? Simple ones, including the one i put here that you
removed to answer my question.



From redcat at catfolks.net  Mon Nov 14 10:47:17 2011
From: redcat at catfolks.net (Redcat)
Date: 14 Nov 2011 15:47:17 GMT
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <9icrg5F5lhU1@mid.individual.net>

> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
> 
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

I know it's a lot of work to learn initially, but I would recommend 
taking the time to install and become familiar with a database engine 
such as MySQL or PostgresQL. While SQLite is easy to install and easy to 
use, it also cuts a lot of corners and allows you to do things that would 
die in a real database. For example, in SQLite column types are merely 
suggestions; there is nothing in SQLite to keep you from storing a string 
in an integer field or vice versa.

For example:

dan at dan:~/work$ sqlite3
SQLite version 3.7.3
Enter ".help" for instructions
Enter SQL statements terminated with a ";"
sqlite> create table test (
   ...> id int,
   ...> name varchar(64),
   ...> comment varchar(256)
   ...> );
sqlite> .schema test
CREATE TABLE test (
id int,
name varchar(64),
comment varchar(256)
);
sqlite> insert into test values (1, 'Dan', 'Normal insert with valid 
types');
sqlite> insert into test values ('Bogosity', 2, 'Record with invalid 
types');
sqlite> insert into test values ('This field should be an int but is 
really a long string instead', 12.45, 'A really screwy record');
sqlite> select * from test;
1|Dan|Normal insert with valid types
Bogosity|2|Record with invalid types
This field should be an int but is really a long string instead|12.45|A 
really screwy record
sqlite> 


This is not to say that SQLite is useless. Far from it - I use it 
frequently myself. But I've been working with SQL databases for a bunch 
of years, and I am familiar with the tradeoffs involved in working with 
SQLite. 

A decent tutorial on working with SQL in general can be found at http://
www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_intro.asp

Installing MySQL or Postgres can be fairly simple, if you use the tools 
provided with your Linux distro (assuming you're running on Linux). "sudo 
apt-get install mysql mysql-server" or "yum install mysql mysql-server" 
should get you what you need to start using MySQL, "sudo apt-get install 
postgresql" or "yum install postgresql" should get you started with 
PostgresQL.


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 10:57:28 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:57:28 -0800
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

I am trying to convince Python to open more than 32k files .. this is on FreeBSD.

Now I know I have to set appropriate limits .. I did:

$ sysctl kern.maxfiles
kern.maxfiles: 204800
$ sysctl kern.maxfilesperproc
kern.maxfilesperproc: 200000
$ sysctl kern.maxvnodes
kern.maxvnodes: 200000
$ ulimit
unlimited

Here is what happens with a Python freshly built from sources .. it'll tell me I can open 200k files .. but will bail out at 32k:

$ ./local/bin/python -V
Python 2.7.2
$ ./local/bin/python
Python 2.7.2 (default, Nov 14 2011, 16:41:56)
[GCC 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]] on freebsd8
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import resource
>>> resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
(200000L, 200000L)
>>> resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_OFILE)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'RLIMIT_OFILE'
>>> import resource
>>>
>>> max = resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
>>> cnt = 0
>>> print "maximum FDs", max
maximum FDs (200000L, 200000L)
fds = []

while cnt < max:
   f = open("/tmp/test1/test_%d" % cnt, "w")
   f.write("test")
   fds.append(f)
   cnt += 1
   if cnt % 1000 == 0:
      print "opened %d files" % cnt

print "ok, created %d files" % cnt
>>>
>>> fds = []
>>>
>>> while cnt < max:
...    f = open("/tmp/test1/test_%d" % cnt, "w")
...    f.write("test")
...    fds.append(f)
...    cnt += 1
...    if cnt % 1000 == 0:
...       print "opened %d files" % cnt
...
opened 1000 files
opened 2000 files
opened 3000 files
opened 4000 files
opened 5000 files
opened 6000 files
opened 7000 files
opened 8000 files
opened 9000 files
opened 10000 files
opened 11000 files
opened 12000 files
opened 13000 files
opened 14000 files
opened 15000 files
opened 16000 files
opened 17000 files
opened 18000 files
opened 19000 files
opened 20000 files
opened 21000 files
opened 22000 files
opened 23000 files
opened 24000 files
opened 25000 files
opened 26000 files
opened 27000 files
opened 28000 files
opened 29000 files
opened 30000 files
opened 31000 files
opened 32000 files
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
IOError: [Errno 24] Too many open files: '/tmp/test1/test_32765'
>>> print "ok, created %d files" % cnt
ok, created 32765 files
>>>


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 14 11:15:45 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:15:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j9rct4$frh$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> > What application is associated with .py files?

> Application? Simple ones, including the one i put here that you
> removed to answer my question.

Eh?  I can't see anywhere that you mentioned your Windows settings as
to what application is associated with .py files.

(You mentioned running IDLE, but I don't see that it was given as the
default application for opening .py files.)

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 11:25:13 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:25:13 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.11.2011 16:57, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> I am trying to convince Python to open more than 32k files .. this is on FreeBSD.
> 
> Now I know I have to set appropriate limits .. I did:
> 
> $ sysctl kern.maxfiles
> kern.maxfiles: 204800
> $ sysctl kern.maxfilesperproc
> kern.maxfilesperproc: 200000
> $ sysctl kern.maxvnodes
> kern.maxvnodes: 200000
> $ ulimit
> unlimited
> 
> Here is what happens with a Python freshly built from sources .. it'll tell me I can open 200k files .. but will bail out at 32k:

I'm not familiar with BSD but Linux has similar Kernel options. The
kernel options might be *global* flags to set the total upper limit of
open file descriptors for the entire system, not for a single process.
Also on Linux "ulimit" doesn't display the fd limit. You have to use
"ulimit -n".

Why do you need more than 32k file descriptors anyway? It's an insanely
high amount of FDs. Most programs need less than 100 and the default
value of 1024 on my Linux servers is usually high enough. I've never
increased the fd limit over 8192 and our biggest installation servers
more than 80 TB data in about 20 to 25 million files.

Christian



From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 11:36:37 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:36:37 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> I'm not familiar with BSD but Linux has similar Kernel options. The kernel
> options might be *global* flags to set the total upper limit of open file
> descriptors for the entire system, not for a single process.
> Also on Linux "ulimit" doesn't display the fd limit. You have to use "ulimit -n".

This is a dedicated machine doing nothing else .. I'm monitoring global FD usage

sysctl kern.openfiles

and it's way beyond the configured limit

$ ulimit -n
200000


> 
> Why do you need more than 32k file descriptors anyway? It's an insanely high

It's not for files:

This is a network service .. I tested it with up to 50k TCP connections .. however
at this point, when the service tries to open a file, it'll bail out.

Sockets+Files both contribute to open FDs.

I need 50k sockets + 100 files.

Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will happily
accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 14 11:37:01 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7ce7af27-0f4d-4b17-ab44-36a192028f41@e15g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 14, 10:41?am, Tracubik <affdfsdfds... at b.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i'm developing a new program.
> Mission: learn a bit of database management
> Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> db: that's the question
>
> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
>
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>
> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> Thank you all
>
> MedeoTL
>
> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)

I would recommend working through the book "SQL for Dummies". I found
it very clear, and slowly leads you into how to think about design,
not just how to manipulate databases.

Instead of using Python to start with consider using OOo Base or MS
Access (retching noise), so you can use RAD to play with structure and
manipulation of your data and create data-entry forms -- this'll allow
you to enter data, and play with queries and the structure -- as you
won't get it right the first time! You will be able to get either of
these programs to give you the SQL that constructs tables, or makes
queries etc...

That'd be enough to keep you going for a couple of weeks I guess.

Also, some things make more sense in a NoSQL database, so have a look
at something like MongoDB or CouchDB and how their design works
differently.

That's probably another couple of weeks.

Also worth checking out would be http://dabodev.com

hth

Jon.




From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 11:51:23 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:51:23 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>

Am 14.11.2011 17:36, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> This is a dedicated machine doing nothing else .. I'm monitoring global FD usage
> 
> sysctl kern.openfiles
> 
> and it's way beyond the configured limit
> 
> $ ulimit -n
> 200000

Apparently you did everything right here. Well, it was worth the try. ;)


> It's not for files:
> 
> This is a network service .. I tested it with up to 50k TCP connections .. however
> at this point, when the service tries to open a file, it'll bail out.
> 
> Sockets+Files both contribute to open FDs.
> 
> I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
> 
> Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will happily
> accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.

A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your
system is able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you hit an
artificial limit because some C code or API has a overflow. This seems
to be a known bug in FreeBSD
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-July/040689.html


Christian


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 12:03:46 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:03:46 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647EB@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> > I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
> >
> > Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will
> > happily accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.
> 
> A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your system is
> able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you hit an artificial limit
> because some C code or API has a overflow. This seems to be a known bug in
> FreeBSD http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-
> July/040689.html

This is unbelievable.

I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3 ... both on i386
_and_ amd64.

Now I'm f***d;(

A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc fopen(),
but the Posix open()?

Thanks anyway for this hint!



From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 12:13:12 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:13:12 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647EB@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647EB@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <4EC14C28.2020106@cheimes.de>

Am 14.11.2011 18:03, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> This is unbelievable.
> 
> I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3 ... both on i386
> _and_ amd64.
> 
> Now I'm f***d;(
> 
> A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc fopen(),
> but the Posix open()?
> 
> Thanks anyway for this hint!

A fix would break the ABI compatibility. I guess that you won't see a
fix for the issue until FreeBSD 9.0 is released.

And no, you can't re-compile Python to use the open() API instead of
fopen(). The built-in file type is developed around the file pointer
API, not the file descriptor API. Luckily Python 2.7 has a backport of
Python 3.x new IO library. The new IO API doesn't use file pointers at
all and implements its own layer around file descriptors. Good luck!

Christian


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 12:31:47 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:31:47 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me> <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9rja5$qcp$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/14/2011 8:15 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<j9rct4$frh$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>>> What application is associated with .py files?
>
>> Application? Simple ones, including the one i put here that you
>> removed to answer my question.
>
> Eh?  I can't see anywhere that you mentioned your Windows settings as
> to what application is associated with .py files.
>
> (You mentioned running IDLE, but I don't see that it was given as the
> default application for opening .py files.)
>
I would think the install would make the association of py to Python, 
either IDLE or the interpreter. If I right-click on a py file, it asks 
me for "Open with". If I select idle.pyw, it gives me the message I 
posted earlier.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 14 12:33:48 2011
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 14, 5:03?pm, Tobias Oberstein <tobias.oberst... at tavendo.de>
wrote:
> > > I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
>
> > > Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service) will
> > > happily accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll bail out.
>
> > A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your system is
> > able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you hit an artificial limit
> > because some C code or API has a overflow. This seems to be a known bug in
> > FreeBSDhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-
> > July/040689.html
>
> This is unbelievable.
>
> I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3 ... both on i386
> _and_ amd64.
>
> Now I'm f***d;(
>
> A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc fopen(),
> but the Posix open()?
>
> Thanks anyway for this hint!

Have you tried/or is it possible to get your 100 or whatever files
first, before your sockets?

hth

Jon


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 12:46:00 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:46:00 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> > > > I need 50k sockets + 100 files.
> >
> > > > Thus, this is even more strange: the Python (a Twisted service)
> > > > will happily accept 50k sockets, but as soon as you do open() a file, it'll
> bail out.
> >
> > > A limit of 32k smells like a overflow in a signed int. Perhaps your
> > > system is able and configured to handle more than 32k FDs but you
> > > hit an artificial limit because some C code or API has a overflow.
> > > This seems to be a known bug in
> > > FreeBSDhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-bugs/2010-
> > > July/040689.html
> >
> > This is unbelievable.
> >
> > I've just tested: the bug (in libc) is still there on FreeBSD 8.2 p3
> > ... both on i386 _and_ amd64.
> >
> > Now I'm f***d;(
> >
> > A last chance: is it possible to compile Python for not using libc
> > fopen(), but the Posix open()?
> >
> > Thanks anyway for this hint!
> 
> Have you tried/or is it possible to get your 100 or whatever files first, before
> your sockets?

If I only needed to open a fixed set of files, that might be a workaround.

However, this is not the case.

I.e. Twisted will do log switching and create/open a new file when the 50k sockets
are already there.

I just confirmed that the bug is even there for FreeBSD 9 RC1 !

This is most unfortunate. Seriously.

I am running out of options, since I am willing to make my stuff Python 3 compatible,
but Twisted is not yet there.

Using the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will not make open() automatically use the new IO, will it?

 


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 12:48:27 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:48:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <28344033.1206.1321292907659.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>

> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use 
> sqlite at the beginning.
> 
> Is that ok? 
I think sqlite3 makes sense since it's already there and has SQL interface.

> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i 
> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
The docs (http://docs.python.org/library/sqlite3.html) have some basic instructions.

> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to 
> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
This can be your first exercise :) But it should be easy to import with the csv module.



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 14 13:00:44 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:00:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me> <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rja5$qcp$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <j9rl0c$qko$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <j9rja5$qcp$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> I would think the install would make the association of py to Python, 
> either IDLE or the interpreter.

I would hope so too, however you did mention that you moved the python
executable to a different directory and installed a newer version, so
verifying that the .py file association points to the correct application
might be worthwhile.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 13:03:31 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:03:31 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.11.2011 18:46, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> I just confirmed that the bug is even there for FreeBSD 9 RC1 !
> 
> This is most unfortunate. Seriously.

W00t, that sucks! You could migrate to another BSD (NetBSD) or Linux ... :)

> I am running out of options, since I am willing to make my stuff Python 3 compatible,
> but Twisted is not yet there.
> 
> Using the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will not make open() automatically use the new IO, will it?

No, the open() function of Python 2.7 will still use the file class
which in return uses fopen(). You could try to monkey patch the built-in
open() function. It's mostly API compatible with the current open()
function:

  >>> import io, __builtin__
  >>> __builtin__.open = io.open

It works as long as no codes checks for isinstance(obj, file). If your
app only has to worry about log files, you might want to overwrite the
_open() method of logging.FileHandler and its subclasses.

Christian



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 14 13:08:17 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:08:17 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Py 2.5.2 from Windows 7 (Invalid on Win 32 app)
In-Reply-To: <j9rl0c$qko$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <j9ovpb$gpe$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2685.1321222158.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<j9pm2r$4sm$1@dont-email.me> <j9pmm9$e11$1@dont-email.me>
	<j9q8cs$3al$1@dont-email.me> <j9rbqk$art$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rct4$frh$1@dont-email.me> <j9rerg$2og$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<j9rja5$qcp$1@dont-email.me> <j9rl0c$qko$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9rlej$a6p$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/14/2011 10:00 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<j9rja5$qcp$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> I would think the install would make the association of py to Python,
>> either IDLE or the interpreter.
>
> I would hope so too, however you did mention that you moved the python
> executable to a different directory and installed a newer version, so
> verifying that the .py file association points to the correct application
> might be worthwhile.
>
Note though I had uninstalled Python. The folder remained, so I renamed 
it, then installed. I see no way that under that arrangement that py 
would be associated with the renamed contents. The renamed folder has no 
exe file for the interpreter. There is, of course, a new Python25 that 
shows python.exe and pythonw.exe. python.exe will bring up a command 
window.


From tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de  Mon Nov 14 13:28:21 2011
From: tobias.oberstein at tavendo.de (Tobias Oberstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:28:21 -0800
Subject: AW: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>

> > I just confirmed that the bug is even there for FreeBSD 9 RC1 !
> >
> > This is most unfortunate. Seriously.
> 
> W00t, that sucks! You could migrate to another BSD (NetBSD) or Linux ... :)

No, thanks;)

> > I am running out of options, since I am willing to make my stuff
> > Python 3 compatible, but Twisted is not yet there.
> >
> > Using the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will not make open()
> automatically use the new IO, will it?
> 
> No, the open() function of Python 2.7 will still use the file class which in
> return uses fopen(). You could try to monkey patch the built-in
> open() function. It's mostly API compatible with the current open()
> function:
> 
>   >>> import io, __builtin__
>   >>> __builtin__.open = io.open
> 
> It works as long as no codes checks for isinstance(obj, file). If your app only
> has to worry about log files, you might want to overwrite the
> _open() method of logging.FileHandler and its subclasses.
> 

Thanks! This is probably the most practical option I can go.

I've just tested: the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will indeed
open >32k files on FreeBSD. It also creates the files much faster.
The old, non-monkey-patched version was getting slower and
slower as more files were opened/created ..

There seem to be slight differences though:

Non-monkey patched: I can write to the file a non-Unicode string,
even when the file was opened non-Binary.

With monkey patch: either open the file Binary-mode, or
write Unicode strings ..

I need to see if / what breaks in Twisted.

I can handle my own code .. no problem.

Thanks alot!!



import io, __builtin__
__builtin__.open = io.open

import resource

max = resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
cnt = 0
print "maximum FDs", max

max = 33000

fds = []

while cnt < max:
   f = open("/tmp/test1/test_%d" % cnt, "wb")
   f.write("test")
   fds.append(f)
   cnt += 1
   if cnt % 1000 == 0:
      print "opened %d files" % cnt

print "ok, created %d files" % cnt




From steve at sprangle.com  Mon Nov 14 14:30:15 2011
From: steve at sprangle.com (Steve Edlefsen)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:30:15 -0700
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com> <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>

Sorry about that.  Ubuntu 11.10.

I used

Plone-4.1.2-UnifiedInstaller.tar

which installed o.k.  I'm serving a webpage on my LAN.

I did a search on files named "python" on my machine.
There are 23 not including the ones in the Plone
buildout-cache in my account.  Seems like a lot of
applications install their own copy of python.

There are also

./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so
./usr/lib/libz.so

which, I believe, are the zlib libraries.

I've read that you can reinstall python with configure
using the "--with-zlib" option, but configure isn't in

/usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config

I think the python interpreter for the command line is
the one in /usr/bin/python.  Would this be the one I
reconfigure for zlib?  Should I simply install python from

Python-3.2.2.tgz?

On 11/13/2011 02:55 PM, Tim Wintle wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 11:17 -0700, Steve Edlefsen wrote:
>> which appears to install zlib when python is reinstalled.  Except I
>> can't run make without errors and there is no configuration file.
>>
>> How do I reinstall python to include zlib?
> Which OS are you on? Linux? BSD?
>
> How did you install Plone?
>
> First I'd check if there's a module shadowing the builtin zlib module -
> i.e. if you've got a local file called "zlib.py" which is getting
> imported by mistake.
>
>
> Fairly much all *nix systems will have a python installation out of the
> box - it looks like you need python2.6
>
> I've never had a missing zlib module - but it's possible that it might
> be missing if you don't have the zlib/deflate headers installed - if
> they're not available then I'd try installing them and then reinstalling
> the package you started with.
>
> Tim Wintle
>


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 14:34:31 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:34:31 +0100
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
In-Reply-To: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rfda$mfs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C2647C8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<4EC1470B.90403@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2705.1321290230.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<e3901b26-33ab-41b4-a8b1-82d08f15c125@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26481A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
Message-ID: <4EC16D47.3000607@cheimes.de>

Am 14.11.2011 19:28, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
> Thanks! This is probably the most practical option I can go.
> 
> I've just tested: the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will indeed
> open >32k files on FreeBSD. It also creates the files much faster.
> The old, non-monkey-patched version was getting slower and
> slower as more files were opened/created ..

I wonder what's causing the O(n^2) behavior. Is it the old file type or
BSD's fopen() fault?


> There seem to be slight differences though:
> 
> Non-monkey patched: I can write to the file a non-Unicode string,
> even when the file was opened non-Binary.
> 
> With monkey patch: either open the file Binary-mode, or
> write Unicode strings ..

Python 3.x doesn't collate data and text but distinguishes between bytes
(str type in Python 2.x) and unicode. You can't write unicode to a
binary file and str to a text file. See it as an opportunity! You are
taking the first step towards Python 3 compatibility. :)

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Nov 14 14:50:39 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:50:39 +0100
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com> <1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop>
	<4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
Message-ID: <j9rref$l08$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.11.2011 20:30, schrieb Steve Edlefsen:
> Sorry about that.  Ubuntu 11.10.
> 
> I used
> 
> Plone-4.1.2-UnifiedInstaller.tar
> 
> which installed o.k.  I'm serving a webpage on my LAN.
> 
> I did a search on files named "python" on my machine.
> There are 23 not including the ones in the Plone
> buildout-cache in my account.  Seems like a lot of
> applications install their own copy of python.
> 
> There are also
> 
> ../usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so
> ../usr/lib/libz.so
> 
> which, I believe, are the zlib libraries.
> 
> I've read that you can reinstall python with configure
> using the "--with-zlib" option, but configure isn't in
> 
> /usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config
> 
> I think the python interpreter for the command line is
> the one in /usr/bin/python.  Would this be the one I
> reconfigure for zlib? 

You might have run into this [1] issue with Ubuntu 11.04+ and Python
before 2.7.2.

Christian

[1]
http://lipyrary.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-compile-python-on-ubuntu-1104.html



From chris.martel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 15:57:37 2011
From: chris.martel at gmail.com (Chris Martel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:57:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Developer needed for Catalina Marketing - St. Petersburg
Message-ID: <7430fa93-e8a0-41e5-8fd5-3a4b5fe40cc4@l19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

We, at Catalina Marketing, are in need of a Python Developer for 3 - 6
months.  You'd be writing highly sophisticated scripting in OO classes
(cron) for our coupon campaigns.  Also using SQLite, Oracle, and
Netezza.  Prefer someone who has at least 3-5 years of Python and
database experience.  The other skills are secondary.  You would be a
direct Catalina temporary employee, or we can do a C2C arrangement.

Also if you know of someone who might be interested, I would muchly
appreciate the referral.

Please contact Chris Martel if interested:
chris.martel at catalinamarketing.com, 727-579-5434.


Catalina Marketing Corp. provides behavior-based marketing solutions
for brand manufacturers, retailers, and healthcare providers. It
offers campaign management services; Catalina Category Marketing, a
behavior-based merchandising event; Catalina Interactive, which allows
the user to communicate with consumers online; Catalina Product Alert,
which tracks down actual recalled product buyers; Checkout Coupon,
which targets consumers at the transaction level; Checkout Direct,
which allows brands and retailers to target households based on past
purchase behavior; Checkout Prizes, which builds product volume and
generates in-store/brand excitement by pre-announcing sweepstakes
events; and Checkout Rx, a household and transactional database. The
company also provides competitive benchmarks; Connection Builder, a
Web-based business intelligence application designed to support
analytical needs; data mining services; Loyalty Quotient, a strategic
application; new product launch programs; PatientLink, which delivers
healthcare messages; PatientLinkMC, which delivers PatientLink
messages in the patient's language of choice; Pay for Performance,
which allows brand manufacturers to influence consumers before they
reach the point of sale; PharmAware, which delivers educational
messages about pharmaceutical products for pharmacists and their
staff; Rebate Max, a program that simplifies customer participation in
various manufacturer-funded rebate offers; and RxConx, an integrated
wellness marketing solution. In addition, it offers retail consulting
services. The company serves various brands, retailers, and healthcare
markets. Catalina Marketing Corp. was founded in 1983 and is based in
St. Petersburg, Florida with locations in the United States, the
United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Japan, Italy, Germany, France, and
Belgium.


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Mon Nov 14 16:01:06 2011
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:01:06 +0000
Subject: can't decompress data; zlib not available
In-Reply-To: <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
References: <4EC009D7.90100@sprangle.com>
	<1321221305.12661.6.camel@tim-laptop> <4EC16C47.9000604@sprangle.com>
Message-ID: <1321304466.32356.14.camel@tim-laptop>

On Mon, 2011-11-14 at 12:30 -0700, Steve Edlefsen wrote:
> I did a search on files named "python" on my machine.
> There are 23 not including the ones in the Plone
> buildout-cache in my account.  Seems like a lot of
> applications install their own copy of python.
> 
> There are also
> 
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so
> ./usr/lib/libz.so
> 
> which, I believe, are the zlib libraries.

but do you have the headers?

On my ubuntu it's

/usr/include/zlib.h

As Christian pointed out, Ubuntu 11.04 introduced some changes which may
have broken the installation - there is a patch on the python bug
tracker which will provide a work-around, but it is not going to be
applied to 2.6 or lower as they are not actively maintained branches any
more.

You'll need to run through the steps that the plone installer makes and
patch the extracted python directory before it makes it's local python.

> I've read that you can reinstall python with configure
> using the "--with-zlib" option, but configure isn't in
> 
> /usr/local/Plone/Python-2.6/lib/python2.6/config
> 
> I think the python interpreter for the command line is
> the one in /usr/bin/python.  Would this be the one I
> reconfigure for zlib?  Should I simply install python from
> 
> Python-3.2.2.tgz?

no - you need to use python2.6 - python3 is effectively a different
language.

python is a core part of *nix these days, so playing around recompiling
the system python can cause a lot of pain.


Tim




From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 14 16:53:29 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:53:29 -0800
Subject: else in try/except
Message-ID: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>

The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems 
pointless to me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the 
code in the 'else' suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.

Can anybody shed some light on this for me?

~Ethan~


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Nov 14 17:59:35 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:59:35 +0000
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4EC19D57.8000907@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 14/11/2011 21:53, Ethan Furman wrote:
> The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems
> pointless to me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the
> code in the 'else' suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>
The difference is that if an exception occurs in the else block it
won't be caught by the exception handlers of the try statement.


From arnodel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 18:03:55 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:03:55 +0000
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Y=9S3O1iaq77GZxQL9L15r4xAYHMpnK2tEsoUjJC8yfQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 November 2011 21:53, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems pointless to
> me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the code in the 'else'
> suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?

Exceptions in the else clause will not be caught. Look at the
difference between the two try clauses below:

>>> def f(): raise TypeError
...
>>> try:
...    print("try")
...    f()
... except TypeError:
...    print("except")
...
try
except
>>> try:
...    print("try")
... except TypeError:
...    print("except")
... else:
...    f()
...
try
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 6, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in f
TypeError
>>>

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Nov 14 18:12:13 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC19D57.8000907@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<4EC19D57.8000907@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsh=rRFs_ruoPU14yzXQuv-EiELKv_-0-m4gbnJmVDUaw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:59 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 14/11/2011 21:53, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>> The code in 'else' in a 'try/except/else[/finally]' block seems
>> pointless to me, as I am not seeing any difference between having the
>> code in the 'else' suite vs having the code in the 'try' suite.
>>
>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>>
> The difference is that if an exception occurs in the else block it
> won't be caught by the exception handlers of the try statement.

Consider the examples:

try:
 a
 raise RuntimeError()
except RuntimeError:
 pass

vs

try:
 a
except RuntimeError:
 pass
else:
 raise RuntimeError()

The first example will not raise an exception, while the second will
result in a RuntimeError.

Effectively, the first block will either:
 1) If the "a" block raises a RuntimeError, continue,
 2) If the "a" block raised any other error, propergate it,
 3) If the "a" block does not raise an exception, continue.
while the second block will either:
 1) If the "a" block raises a RuntimeError, continue,
 2) If the "a" block raised any other error, propergate it,
 3) If the "a" block does not raise an exception, raise a RuntimeError.

Note the difference in the 3rd case.

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 18:59:39 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any
new language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read
as readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language,
explicidly typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to
make that code executable.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 14 19:15:16 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:15:16 -0800
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4EC1AF14.3010401@stoneleaf.us>

Thanks, all!

~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 19:28:10 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:10 +1100
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
In-Reply-To: <da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrF1D5PMxPCzssOEnw2GNuEJHE-gHem=gTCbgtVAqgF6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:59 AM, DevPlayer <devplayer at gmail.com> wrote:
> What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
> instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
> structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any
> new language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read
> as readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language,
> explicidly typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to
> make that code executable.

What I would say is: How could they NOT be aware of Python's visual
structures. There are tradeoffs, and just because something works for
one language doesn't mean it's right for every other. I doubt the Dart
developers were unaware of Python's structural style, so the choice to
not use such was most likely conscious. (It may have been as simple as
"let's keep the syntax mostly JS-like, to make it easier for JS
developers to grok" though, rather than a major language-design
choice.)

ChrisA


From rowen at uw.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:00:38 2011
From: rowen at uw.edu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:00:38 -0800
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
References: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-0C4928.17003814112011@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A at mail.gmail.com>,
 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Russell E. Owen <rowen at uw.edu> wrote:
> > I am trying to write a decorator that times an instance method and
> > writes the results to a class member variable. For example:
> >
> > def timeMethod(func):
> > ? ?def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> > ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> > ? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
> > ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> > ? ? ? ?self.timings[func.__name__] = duration
> > ? ? ? ?return res
> > ? ?return wrapper
> >
> > This works, but I'm not very happy with the way self.timings is obtained.
> 
> What do you feel is wrong with it? 

Oops, I stripped so much out of my example that I stripped the ugly bit. 
This is closer to the original and demonstrated the issue:

def timeMethod(func):
    name = func.__name__ + "Duration"
    def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
   ? ? t1 = time.time()
? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
? ? ? ?self.timings[name] = duration
? ? ? ?return res
? ?return wrapper

I don't like the way name is passed into wrapper. It works, but it looks 
like magic. A class offers an obvious place to save the information. Or 
I could just generate the name each time.

I realize I'm showing the limits of my understanding of python binding 
of variable names, but I also think that if I find it confusing then 
others will, as well.

> sum(os.times()[:2]) instead, which (assuming your script is
> single-threaded) will more accurately count the actual CPU time spent
> in the function rather than real time, which could be quite different
> if the CPU is busy.

Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to use time.clock(), which I 
understand gives basically the same information (at a resolution that is 
sufficient for my needs).

> Also, why do you need this?  If you're just trying to evaluate the
> speed of your code, you should consider using a proper profiler or the
> timeit module. The former will tell you how much time is spent in
> each function, while the latter runs the code a large number of times
> in a loop, which gives you better precision for quick methods.

It is for timing stages of a data processing pipeline. Only long-running 
tasks will be timed. Repeatedly running to get better times is neither 
practical nor necessary to get a good feeling of where the time is being 
spent.

> > I first tried to write this as a class (for readability), and this did
> > NOT work:
> >
> > class timeMethod(object):
> > ? ?def __init__(self, func):
> > ? ? ? ?self.func = func
> > ? ?def __call__(self, *args, **keyArgs):
> > ? ? ? ?t1 = time.time()
> > ? ? ? ?res = self.func(*args, **keyArgs)
> > ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> > ? ? ? ?args[0].timings.set(self.func.__name__, duration)
> > ? ? ? ?return res
> >
> > In the first case the wrapper is called as an unbound function, so it
> > works. But in the second case the wrapper is called as a bound method --
> > thus args[0] is not func's class instance, and I can't get to the
> > timings attribute.
> 
> I prefer the function version myself, but to make this work you could
> add something like this (untested) to make your wrapper class a
> descriptor that tacks on the self argument:
> 
>     def __get__(self, instance, owner):
>         from functools import partial
>         if instance is None:
>             return self
>         return partial(self, instance)

Thank you very much. I'll stick to the function, since it works, but 
it's nice to know how to work around the problem.



From dbinks at codeaurora.org  Mon Nov 14 20:09:39 2011
From: dbinks at codeaurora.org (Dominic Binks)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:09:39 -0800
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrF1D5PMxPCzssOEnw2GNuEJHE-gHem=gTCbgtVAqgF6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmrF1D5PMxPCzssOEnw2GNuEJHE-gHem=gTCbgtVAqgF6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC1BBD3.2020006@codeaurora.org>

I believe Occam had a visual structure and was compiled.  In fact it was 
even more picky than Python in this respect IIRC.

On 11/14/2011 4:28 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:59 AM, DevPlayer<devplayer at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
>> instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
>> structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any
>> new language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read
>> as readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language,
>> explicidly typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to
>> make that code executable.
>
> What I would say is: How could they NOT be aware of Python's visual
> structures. There are tradeoffs, and just because something works for
> one language doesn't mean it's right for every other. I doubt the Dart
> developers were unaware of Python's structural style, so the choice to
> not use such was most likely conscious. (It may have been as simple as
> "let's keep the syntax mostly JS-like, to make it easier for JS
> developers to grok" though, rather than a major language-design
> choice.)
>
> ChrisA


-- 
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 22:07:34 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:07:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multilevel dicts/arrays v. tuples as keys?
References: <8f5215a8-d08f-4355-a5a2-77fcaa32c92d@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<j9qp2t$1lnr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
	<mailman.2695.1321267697.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <74d33315-beb0-4b4e-90bb-0cac8c91c5e6@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> If you need lookup only I'd prefer tuples, but sometimes you may want to
> retrieve all values with a certain k1 and
>
> d[k1]
>
> is certainly more efficient than
>
> [(k2, v) for (k1, k2), v in d.items() if k1 == wanted]

This was the hidden cost of the tuple/reverse-dictionary solution I
offered. The solution will of course depend on what the OP requires to
be more efficient: looking up keys from values, or working with
subsets of the data.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 14 22:10:34 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 03:10:34 GMT
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1942.1318500432.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<1dd5aa8c-7a41-4108-8940-ef666cd2ddb9@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2016.1318698744.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2017.1318699662.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<da92fd8a-2313-46b8-ba8e-42b45dd26d69@o9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ec1d829$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:39 -0800, DevPlayer wrote:

> What I don't get is, having seen Python's syntax with indentation
> instead of open and closing puncuation and other -readability-
> structures in Python's syntax, is if someone is going to invent any new
> language, how could they NOT take Python's visual structures (read as
> readability) and copy it, whether it be a compiled language, explicidly
> typed checked or whatever underlying mechanism they want to make that
> code executable.

Because sometimes people have priorities other than readability. Or they 
actually *like* braces. (I know, crazy!) 

In fairness, the significant indentation is not all peaches and cream, it 
has a dark side too. For example, the difference between visually 
indistinguishable spaces and tabs can be meaningful (in Python 2, your 
code may be broken if you mix spaces and tabs; in Python 3, the compiler 
will give you an error).  If you work in a noisy environment that eats 
whitespace, such as crappy web forums, people using HTML email, editors 
with unfriendly word-wrapping rules, and the like, you might miss having 
braces. I occasionally see emails with code looking something like this:

    print(something) while x < 100: print(something_else)
    x -= 1 if x % 2 == 1: some_function() else: another_function()
    third_function() print(x)


So the "off-side rule", as it is called, is not uncontroversial. 
Languages developed by old-school language developers or academics, like 
Google's Go language, tend to be very conservative and hence require 
braces or even semicolons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-side_rule


So many people keep asking for braces in Python that one of the 
developers (Guido?) gave in and added it to the language. Just run 

from __future__ import braces

at the top of your file, or at the interactive interpreter, and you're 
done.

My own opinion is that the time I save with significant indentation is a 
hundred times greater than the time I lose due to mangled code without 
braces. So I consider Python's design a big win, but other people may 
make other value judgments.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 14 22:22:03 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 03:22:03 GMT
Subject: Decorator question: prefer class, but only function works
References: <rowen-2FDD9C.13521710112011@news.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidk11rqXjaxcwNKy5C2iotaBO_BcDWL_zFC6Rctue=4U-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2720.1321318854.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec1dada$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:00:38 -0800, Russell E. Owen wrote:

> Oops, I stripped so much out of my example that I stripped the ugly bit.
> This is closer to the original and demonstrated the issue:
> 
> def timeMethod(func):
>     name = func.__name__ + "Duration"
>     def wrapper(self, *args, **keyArgs):
>    ? ? t1 = time.time()
> ? ? ? ?res = func(self, *args, **keyArgs)
> ? ? ? ?duration = time.time() - t1
> ? ? ? ?self.timings[name] = duration
> ? ? ? ?return res
> ? ?return wrapper
> 
> I don't like the way name is passed into wrapper. It works, but it looks
> like magic. A class offers an obvious place to save the information. Or
> I could just generate the name each time.

The pattern you are seeing is called a closure, and it is a very 
important, if advanced, part of Python programming. Of course, you don't 
*have* to use closures, but it isn't scarily-advanced (like metaclass 
programming) but only moderately advanced, and there will be a lot of 
code out there using closures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_science)

Basically a closure is a function which remembers just enough of its 
current environment (the value of non-local variables) so that it can 
continue to work in the future, even if those non-locals change or 
disappear.

I take it you are aware that timing code as shown is only suitable for 
long-running code, and not small snippets? For small snippets, you should 
use the timeit module.

You might also find this recipe useful:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896/



-- 
Steven


From brownbar at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 23:53:06 2011
From: brownbar at gmail.com (Barry W Brown)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>

I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached only
if there is no exception in the try clause.


From brownbar at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 23:53:06 2011
From: brownbar at gmail.com (Barry W Brown)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>

I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached only
if there is no exception in the try clause.


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 00:18:28 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:18:28 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Then, I can reactivate all of the buttons in the destroy() method before
> > calling the destroy() method of Toplevel on self.
>
> Small side point that might save you some work: Instead of disabling
> and enabling all the buttons, disable the whole window. I don't know
> Tkinter well enough to know if there's an easy way to create a modal
> window, but the thing to do is to disable the entire window rather
> than just its command buttons - that's the least astonishing[1] user
> interface technique.
>

Of course!  Windows are widgets just like everything else is, and so can be
configured to be in the DISABLED state just like a button can.  I'm not
used to this hierarchy in which the root window presides over all, yet is
still a widget just like everything else.

But there's a lot of GUI programming that I haven't wrapped my head around
yet (which is why I'm running with this pet project -- but it's bound to be
ugly :)).

Thanks!
Jason
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 00:32:06 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:32:06 +1100
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com> wrote:
> Of course!? Windows are widgets just like everything else is, and so can be
> configured to be in the DISABLED state just like a button can.? I'm not used
> to this hierarchy in which the root window presides over all, yet is still a
> widget just like everything else.
>
> But there's a lot of GUI programming that I haven't wrapped my head around
> yet (which is why I'm running with this pet project -- but it's bound to be
> ugly :)).

Heh, I grew up on OS/2 and everything was an object. (With a few
exceptions; the minimize/maximize/close buttons are all a single
object, rather than being three.) It's not normal to disable the title
bar while leaving the window enabled, but if you want to, you can!

As a general rule, if any parent is invisible, you won't see the
child, and if any parent is disabled, you can't access the child. You
may find that there's even a one-line command that will disable the
window, open a new window, wait for the new window to close, and
automatically reenable the window - an "open modal dialog" function or
something.

ChrisA


From devplayer at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 02:39:51 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:39:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple import hook
References: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2608.1320947171.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <09619112-407e-49ba-87df-ceed03e7789e@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

An alternative approach:
http://pastebin.com/z6pNqFYE

or:

# devplayer at gmail.com
# 2011-Nov-15

# recordimports.py

# my Import Hook Hack in response to:
# http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5a5d5c724f142eb5?hl=en
# as an initial learning exercise

# This code needs to come before any imports you want recorded
# usually just once in the initial (main) module
# Of course you can excluding the if __name__ == '__main__': demo code

# barely tested:
#    only tested with modules that had no errors on import
#    did not need/use/expect/try  reload()
#    ran with Python 2.7 on Win32
# create two fake modules moda.py and modb.py and stick some imports
in them

'''
Exerpt from PEP 302 -- New Import Hooks
...
Motivation:
    - __import__ gets called even for modules that are already in
      sys.modules, which is almost never what you want, unless you're
      writing some sort of monitoring tool.

Note the last two words.'''


#
=======================================================================
# place to save Collected imports
imported = []

# save old __builtins__.__import__()
__builtins__.__dict__['__old_import__'] =
__builtins__.__dict__['__import__']

# match __builtins__.__import__() function signature
def __myimport(name, globals={}, locals={}, fromlist=[], level=-1):
    global imported

    # I don't know why this works.
    __name__ = locals['__name__']
    __file__ = locals['__file__']
    __package__ = locals['__package__']
    __doc__ = locals['__doc__']

    # call original __import__
    module = __builtins__.__old_import__(name, globals, locals,
fromlist, level)

    # save import module name into namespace
    __builtins__.__dict__[name] = module

    tag = (name, __name__, __file__, __package__, module)

    # do not append duplicates
    if tag not in imported:
        imported.append( tag )

    return module

# store the new __import__ into __builtins__
__builtins__.__dict__['__import__'] = __myimport

# erase unneed func name
del __myimport
#
=======================================================================


# demo
if __name__ == '__main__':
    # import some random packages/modules
    import sys
    import moda        # a test module that does some other imports
    import modb        # a test module that does some imports
    from pprint import pprint

    # imported has name, __name__, __file__, __package__
    # show each import
    for n, __n, __f, __p, m in imported:
        print n
        print '   ', __n
        print '   ', __f
        print '   ', __p
        print
    del n, __n, __f, __p, m

    print 'recordimports.py'
    pprint(dir(), None, 4, 1)
    print

    print 'moda.py'
    pprint(dir(moda), None, 4, 1)
    print

    print 'modb.py'
    pprint(dir(modb), None, 4, 1)

    # print imported
    print


From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 06:14:17 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:14:17 +0000
Subject: Opportunity missed by Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmogthwAirzKgCfodjtKtYLESrRSPDJL44Z72dxWt_p=TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4e96b324$0$1007$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<CAPTjJmogthwAirzKgCfodjtKtYLESrRSPDJL44Z72dxWt_p=TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWEtQbnW81Fj=RPsnGGR=RrF4XMegdJ_vipPc0ymAuL9YQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:45 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> > Dart is the very new language created by Google to replace Javascript.
> > So Python was not able to do the job? Or may be they don't know about
> Python
> > at Google ;) ?
> >
>
> Also, Dart is looking to support (optional) strict typing, which
> Python doesn't do. That's a fairly major performance enhancement.
>
> Traits from Enthought has defined types. I'm no expert mind so might not
be suitable.

Cheers,

Jack


-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From suhasrm at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 07:04:51 2011
From: suhasrm at gmail.com (Roark)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
Message-ID: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
some guidance from the experts on my problem.

I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
be achieved.


Thanks in advance,
Roark.


From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 08:29:23 2011
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:29:23 +0000
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j9tpfl$bok$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/15/11 12:04, Roark wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
>

If your doing windows to windows then you could wrap PsExec 
(sysinternals) or the open source but more or less abandoned RemCom 
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/rce).

Disadvantage is that both of them are a royal PITA to wrap nicely.
There are multiple problems with re-redirected STDOUT/STDERR

Advantage is that you don't need to configure anything on the target 
machine.

hth
-- 
mph




From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Tue Nov 15 08:34:30 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:34:30 +0900
Subject: PREFIX directory for pip command
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RtD7R_8FKR2cfk-=122e+iw9vJg-Pu+1C2ZK5xTNPPgsg@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to specify PREFIX directory for pip command by
environment variable?

I found that 'pip install --install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' works well,
but I don't want to specify '--install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' every time.
I prefer to specify it by environment variable such as::

    export PIP_INSTALL_DIR=$PWD/local

Is it possible? Or any idea?

--
regards,
makoto


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 08:54:14 2011
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 05:54:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dde5ee48-e790-4ad5-8233-52b843a0b863@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 1:04?pm, Roark <suha... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roark.


Hello Roark,

If the command does not change over time, an option could be to
encapsulate the command and the output behind an XML-RPC interface. I
used it several times now and for me this works perfectly. XML-RPC is
part of the Python standard library, so it should work out of the box
on windows and linux. It also supports mixed programming languages
(maybe C# on windows to get the info you want and python on linux on
the client).

Kind regards,

Marco


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov 15 09:03:49 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:03:49 +0100
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <j9tpfl$bok$1@dont-email.me>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<j9tpfl$bok$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC27145.6070203@sequans.com>

Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> On 11/15/11 12:04, Roark wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
>> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>>
>> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
>> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
>> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
>> be achieved.
>>
>
> If your doing windows to windows then you could wrap PsExec 
> (sysinternals) or the open source but more or less abandoned RemCom 
> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/rce).
>
> Disadvantage is that both of them are a royal PITA to wrap nicely.
> There are multiple problems with re-redirected STDOUT/STDERR
>
> Advantage is that you don't need to configure anything on the target 
> machine.
>
> hth
have a look at execnet

http://codespeak.net/execnet/

It allows you to execute python code on a remote machine, assuming the 
distant machine has python installed. Work fine with either nix or 
windows systems.

Regarding the file transfert, it sounds like pywin32 provides the 
netcopy service, but I'm not sure, I'm not working with windows.

JM



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 09:10:51 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:10:51 +1100
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqcciMc6LhnoO2_oHDufC-pJmkWPfLTzer5qz5uWwdCig@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.

This looks like a job for SSH.

ChrisA


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Nov 15 09:16:23 2011
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 00:16:23 +1000
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALWePYzpwj6VU97zjwtb8CttpHOvMKBOyH0tFziPKns_GPR-yQ@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like Fabric is what you're after. We use it at work and it's the
best thing since ssh. ;]

http://docs.fabfile.org/en/1.3.2/index.html

(Actually, it uses ssh internally and allows you to do remote shell-like
programming in a pythonic fashion.)

Cheers,
Xav



On 15 November 2011 22:04, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
>
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roark.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 15 09:20:50 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2728.1321366254.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-967479.09205015112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2728.1321366254.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> > machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> > command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> > be achieved.
> 
> This looks like a job for SSH.

You might also want to look at fabric (http://fabfile.org).  It's a nice 
python library for remote command execution built on top of SSH.

A more general answer is that, yes, SSH is the right thing to be looking 
at for your basic connectivity, data transport and remote command 
execution.  But trying to deal with raw SSH will drive you batty.  
Something like fabric, layered on top of SSH, will make things a lot 
easier.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov 15 09:31:56 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:31:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: else in try/except
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
Message-ID: <j9tt4s$95h$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-15, Barry W Brown <brownbar at gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached
> only if there is no exception in the try clause.

Not really.  If that's all you wanted, then you just put the code at
the end of the try block.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... I see TOILET
                                  at               SEATS ...
                              gmail.com            


From usenet at solar-empire.de  Tue Nov 15 09:33:42 2011
From: usenet at solar-empire.de (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:33:42 +0100
Subject: PREFIX directory for pip command
References: <mailman.2726.1321364074.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6r9ap8-2to.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>

Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to specify PREFIX directory for pip command by
> environment variable?
> 
> I found that 'pip install --install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' works well,
> but I don't want to specify '--install-option=--prefix=PREFIX' every time.
> I prefer to specify it by environment variable such as::
> 
>    export PIP_INSTALL_DIR=$PWD/local
> 
> Is it possible? Or any idea?

I'd try
 export PIP_INSTALL_OPTION=--prefix=$PWD/local

using a config file is also possible. See
http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/configuration.html

Ciao
Marc


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 10:06:15 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:06:15 +0000
Subject: else in try/except
In-Reply-To: <j9tt4s$95h$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <4EC18DD9.1070301@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.2719.1321317280.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<33343034.1390.1321332786394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36>
	<j9tt4s$95h$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j9tv58$r8f$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/15/11 2:31 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2011-11-15, Barry W Brown<brownbar at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> I thought that the point of the else clause is that it is reached
>> only if there is no exception in the try clause.
>
> Not really.  If that's all you wanted, then you just put the code at
> the end of the try block.

No, he's right. You should only put code in the try: block where you want 
exceptions to be caught. Everything else should be outside of the block. You 
really do want to minimize the amount of code inside the try: block.

try:
     # minimal code that might raise exceptions that you want to catch
except ThisError:
     # handle ThisError exceptions, and probably continue execution
except ThatError:
     # handle ThatError exceptions, and probably continue execution
else:
     # Code that only runs if ThisError or ThatError were not
     # raised in the try: block. This code may raise ThisError or ThatError
     # exceptions that should not be caught by the above except: blocks.

# Other code that runs regardless if a caught-and-continued exception
# was raised or not

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Tue Nov 15 10:40:34 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 00:40:34 +0900
Subject: PREFIX directory for pip command
In-Reply-To: <6r9ap8-2to.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
References: <mailman.2726.1321364074.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6r9ap8-2to.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
Message-ID: <CAFTm5RuZfFGHqpEQNxZ=TcTLHve6p1wmquSSCCnvcumEwRqsYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Marc Christiansen
<usenet at solar-empire.de> wrote:
>
> I'd try
> ?export PIP_INSTALL_OPTION=--prefix=$PWD/local

It works very well. Thank you.

--
regards,
makoto

>
> using a config file is also possible. See
> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/configuration.html
>
> Ciao
> Marc
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 10:57:16 2011
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (Rodrick Brown)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:57:16 -0500
Subject: Execute a command on remote machine in python
In-Reply-To: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <d00f9257-b99b-4605-8ac8-7e2fbab0bedc@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BCC79627-121D-487F-9D4D-AFEF3A9D8131@gmail.com>

You could easily script this with popen calling secure shell to execute a command and capture the output.  

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2011, at 7:04 AM, Roark <suhasrm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am first time trying my hands on python scripting and would need
> some guidance from the experts on my problem.
> 
> I want to execute a windows command within python script from a client
> machine on a remote target server, and would want the output of the
> command written in a file on client machine. What is the way it could
> be achieved.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Roark.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From amalguseynov at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 11:02:13 2011
From: amalguseynov at gmail.com (BOOK-AZ)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: all() is slow?
References: <Xns9F9684761E3AOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <98bccd44-92b0-4a98-92c0-fb56a2ce847d@hh9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 7, 1:00?pm, "OKB (not okblacke)"
<brenNOSPAMb... at NObrenSPAMbarn.net> wrote:
> ? ? ? ? I noticed this (Python 2.6.5 on Windows XP):
> http://book-az.com
> >>> import random, timeit
> >>> def myAll(x):
>
> ... ? ? for a in x:
> ... ? ? ? ? if a not in (True, False):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
> ... ? ? return True>>> x = [random.choice([True, False]) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
> >>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x',
>
> number=10)
> 0: 9.7685158309226452>>> timeit.timeit('all(a in (True, False) for a in x)', 'from __main__
>
> import x', number=10)
> 1: 12.348196768024984>>> x = [random.randint(0,100) for a in xrange(0, 5000000)]
> >>> def myAll(x):
>
> ... ? ? for a in x:
> ... ? ? ? ? if not a <= 100:
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
> ... ? ? return True>>> timeit.timeit('myAll(x)', 'from __main__ import myAll, x',
>
> number=10)
> 4: 2.8248207523582209>>> timeit.timeit('all(a <= 100 for a in x)', 'gc.enable(); from
>
> __main__ import x', number=10)
> 5: 4.6433557896324942
>
> ? ? ? ? What is the point of the all() function being a builtin if it's
> slower than writing a function to do the check myself?
>
> --
> --OKB (not okblacke)
> Brendan Barnwell
> "Do not follow where the path may lead. ?Go, instead, where there is
> no path, and leave a trail."
> ? ? ? ? --author unknown



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Nov 15 12:01:23 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:01:23 +0000
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>>for x in a, b, c:
>>    del x[0]
>for arr in [a,b,c]:
>  arr.pop(0)

>(Peter's "del" solution is quite close, but I find the 'del' statement 
>tricky in python and will mislead many python newcomers)

Can you expand on why 'del' is "tricky"/misleading?

Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From babiucandreea at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:11:10 2011
From: babiucandreea at gmail.com (Andreea Babiuc)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:11:10 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
Message-ID: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Is there a way to suppress all the errors when importing a module in
python?

By that I mean.. If I have other imports in the module I'm trying to import
that fail, I still want my module to be imported that way..

Many thanks.
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From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Nov 15 12:24:03 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:24:03 -0800
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>

As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.

try:
 import badModule
except:
 pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
alternative module.

As with any except statement, specific exceptions may be caught
(rather than the blank, catch everything).

Chris

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Andreea Babiuc <babiucandreea at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a way to suppress all the errors when importing a module in python?
>
> By that I mean.. If I have other imports in the module I'm trying to import
> that fail, I still want my module to be imported that way..
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Nov 15 12:26:51 2011
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:26:51 +0000
Subject: overview on dao
In-Reply-To: <96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2559.1320800531.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474018427@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

>> Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".
>I just prefer shorter name.

DAO as Data Access Objects is a common acronym in several languages (i.e. Java), 
so you will continually have this naming conflict. Just be aware that this
conflict will happen frequently in the minds of many programmers.

Ramit

P.S. I vote for PyLaoziDao :P


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423

--


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From babiucandreea at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:35:09 2011
From: babiucandreea at gmail.com (Andreea Babiuc)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:35:09 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:

> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.
>
> try:
>  import badModule
> except:
>



>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
> alternative module.
>
>
Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to import
the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the reason
while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if that
makes the code not 100% correct.

Does that make sense ?









> As with any except statement, specific exceptions may be caught
> (rather than the blank, catch everything).
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Andreea Babiuc <babiucandreea at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there a way to suppress all the errors when importing a module in
> python?
> >
> > By that I mean.. If I have other imports in the module I'm trying to
> import
> > that fail, I still want my module to be imported that way..
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> >
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Blog: Http://andreeababiuc.ro
Photo Portfolio: http://royaa.daportfolio.com
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From devplayer at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:56:03 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:56:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple import hook
References: <4EBBF15D.9090401@gmail.com>
	<CALFfu7Au3+kDNTdH=fQ3YtnwKyYxu5-=dEZ1hdfM9fYNhMA9Dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2608.1320947171.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<09619112-407e-49ba-87df-ceed03e7789e@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a61ae558-ad7c-47fd-a7ec-339a322eff89@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

And for an insane amount of what REALLY gets imported:

python.exe -B -s -S -v -v -v -v your_module_here.py %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6
%7 %8 %9

or more appropiately:

python -v -v -v -v your_module_here.py


And for completeness, if you feel those options aren't telling the
whole truth, you can turn on your operating system's file auditing for
opens and reads; I forget if there are other places that can be
imported from besides *.py, *.pyo, *.pyc, *.pyd files too (maybe
zips?)


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 12:57:11 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:57:11 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Andreea Babiuc wrote:

> 
> 
> On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.
> 
> try:
>  import badModule
> except:
> 
>  
>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
> alternative module.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to import the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the reason while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if that makes the code not 100% correct.
> 
> Does that make sense ?

It makes sense.  It probably also makes sense to only do an "except ImportError", since if there are other errors (say, syntax errors in a module you're trying to import, rather than its absence, you probably want to know about it.

To disable code that won't work without the module you're trying to import, you can always set flags in your module.  For example, I've got a project at work that can use a variety of communications interfaces, including using PySerial for serial port comms.  But if someone doesn't have PySerial installed, I want it to fail gracefully and just not support serial.  So I can do the following:


try:
   import serial
   _serial_enabled = True
except ImportError:
   print("PySerial not installed - serial ports not supported!")
   _serial_enabled = False


And then elsewhere in my module, I can check the value of _serial_enabled to see if I should e.g. list the serial ports in available communications interfaces.

Of course, if there's some other error in PySerial (maybe I installed a broken version with a syntax error?), that error will get propagated up, which is a good thing, because I'd rather know that PySerial is broken than just have it tell me it's not installed (which is what would happen if I simply caught all exceptions).  Your mileage may vary.

- Dave



From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 15 13:17:48 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:17:48 -0500
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>

On 11/15/2011 12:01 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> <SNIP>
>> (Peter's "del" solution is quite close, but I find the 'del' statement
>> tricky in python and will mislead many python newcomers)
> Can you expand on why 'del' is "tricky"/misleading?
>
> Ramit
>
a = someexpression...
b = a
....
del a

Does not (necessarily) delete the object that a refers to.  It merely 
deletes the symbol a.



-- 

DaveA



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Nov 15 13:44:44 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:44:44 +0000
Subject: overview on dao
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474018427@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <4bd0b85e-a426-444b-be7e-9793d1ba3ec1@h23g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2548.1320774753.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<79f616cb-8fc7-42f7-a455-3c2adbb01fa7@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2559.1320800531.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<96a0fc78-aa96-4830-bc26-b3efbb75e65b@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474018427@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <4EC2B31C.4060502@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 15/11/2011 17:26, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>>> Perhaps you should call it "LaoZiDao".
>> I just prefer shorter name.
>
> DAO as Data Access Objects is a common acronym in several languages (i.e. Java),
> so you will continually have this naming conflict. Just be aware that this
> conflict will happen frequently in the minds of many programmers.
>
> Ramit
>
> P.S. I vote for PyLaoziDao :P
>
Just don't confuse it with PyDao, which is already taken. :-)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Nov 15 13:58:30 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:58:30 +0100
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>

David Riley wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Andreea Babiuc wrote:
>
>   
>> On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
>> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except block.
>>
>> try:
>>  import badModule
>> except:
>>
>>  
>>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
>> alternative module.
>>
>>
>> Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to import the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the reason while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if that makes the code not 100% correct.
>>
>> Does that make sense ?
>>     
>
> It makes sense.  It probably also makes sense to only do an "except ImportError", since if there are other errors (say, syntax errors in a module you're trying to import, rather than its absence, you probably want to know about it.
>
> To disable code that won't work without the module you're trying to import, you can always set flags in your module.  For example, I've got a project at work that can use a variety of communications interfaces, including using PySerial for serial port comms.  But if someone doesn't have PySerial installed, I want it to fail gracefully and just not support serial.  So I can do the following:
>
>
> try:
>    import serial
>    _serial_enabled = True
> except ImportError:
>    print("PySerial not installed - serial ports not supported!")
>    _serial_enabled = False
>
>
> And then elsewhere in my module, I can check the value of _serial_enabled to see if I should e.g. list the serial ports in available communications interfaces.
>
> Of course, if there's some other error in PySerial (maybe I installed a broken version with a syntax error?), that error will get propagated up, which is a good thing, because I'd rather know that PySerial is broken than just have it tell me it's not installed (which is what would happen if I simply caught all exceptions).  Your mileage may vary.
>
> - Dave
>
>   
If I'm not wrong the OP wants to disable the line *in the module being 
imported*, which is kindof silly and doesn't make sense to answer his 
question.

Anreea, tell us why the module you are importing is failing and if this 
module is yours, we may provide you a proper way to handle this 
situation (though I'm pretty sure everything is in Dave's proposal).

JM
PS : @Dave there is a way to avoiding adding symbols to your global 
namespace, assign None to the module's name on import errors. Then 
before using it, just test the module bool value : if serial: 
serial.whateverMethod()


From alisha1551 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 14:06:45 2011
From: alisha1551 at gmail.com (alisha alisha)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gossip Protocol in Python
Message-ID: <c61efe0c-fe42-4005-8957-273e72810103@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I am new to Python. I have to implement a overlay network of around
500 nodes which are arranged as a random graph. To generate theoverlay
network I will be using networkx.

My query is, is there a way to implement Gossip protocol in my overlay
network using Python. Like one node initiated the Gossip of a message,
then in how many epoch time it reaches all the nodes in the network.

Thanks.

Regards,
Alisha


From info at wingware.com  Tue Nov 15 14:18:51 2011
From: info at wingware.com (Wingware)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:18:51 -0500
Subject: Wing IDE 4.1.1 released
Message-ID: <4EC2BB1B.8080506@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 4.1.1 of Wing IDE, an integrated development
environment designed specifically for the Python programming language.

Wing IDE is a cross-platform Python IDE that provides a professional code
editor with vi, emacs, and other key bindings, auto-completion, call tips,
refactoring, context-aware auto-editing, a powerful graphical debugger,
version control, unit testing, search, and many other features.

**Changes in Version 4.1.1**

Highlights of this release include:

* Goto-definition on symbols in the shells
* Expanded and improved auto-editing support (enable this in the Edit >
   Keyboard Personality menu):
   * Auto-closing
   * Auto-enter invocation args
   * Apply quote/comment/paren/etc to selection
   * Auto-enter spaces
   * Insert EOL and indent for new block
   * Continue comment on new line
* Auto-indent when pasting multi-line text in Python code (undo once 
restores
   original indentation)
* Improved Smart Tab key option for Python
* Indent to Match menu and tool bar items toggle indentation to one indent
   position lower if already at matching indent level
* Improved auto-indent of else, elif, except, and finally
* Experimental Turbo auto-completer mode for Python that treats any non-word
   key as a completion key and Ctrl, Alt, and Command as a cancel keys
* Link to docs.python.org in Source Assistant
* Include argument names in auto-completer during invocation
* About 30 other bug fixes and minor improvements

Complete change log:  http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/4.1.1/CHANGELOG.txt

**New Features in Version 4**

Version 4 adds the following new major features:

* Refactoring -- Rename/move symbols, extract to function/method, and 
introduce variable
* Find Uses -- Find all points of use of a symbol
* Auto-Editing -- Reduce typing burden by auto-entering expected code
* Diff/Merge -- Graphical file and repository comparison and merge
* Django Support -- Debug Django templates, run Django unit tests, and more
* matplotlib Support -- Maintains live-updating plots in shell and debugger
* Simplified Licensing -- Includes all OSes and adds Support+Upgrades 
subscriptions

Details on licensing changes:  http://wingware.com/news/2011-02-16

**About Wing IDE**

Wing IDE is an integrated development environment designed specifically for
the Python programming language.  It provides powerful editing, testing, and
debugging features that help reduce development and debugging time, cut down
on coding errors, and make it easier to understand and navigate Python code.
Wing IDE can be used to develop Python code for web, GUI, and embedded
scripting applications.

Wing IDE is available in three product levels:  Wing IDE Professional is
the full-featured Python IDE, Wing IDE Personal offers a reduced feature
set at a low price, and Wing IDE 101 is a free simplified version designed
for teaching beginning programming courses with Python.

Version 4.0 of Wing IDE Professional includes the following major features:

* Professional quality code editor with vi, emacs, and other keyboard
   personalities
* Code intelligence for Python:  Auto-completion, call tips, find uses,
   goto-definition, error indicators, refactoring, context-aware 
auto-editing,
   smart indent and rewrapping, and source navigation
* Advanced multi-threaded debugger with graphical UI, command line 
interaction,
   conditional breakpoints, data value tooltips over code, watch tool, and
   externally launched and remote debugging
* Powerful search and replace options including keyboard driven and 
graphical
   UIs, multi-file, wild card, and regular expression search and replace
* Version control integration for Subversion, CVS, Bazaar, git, 
Mercurial, and
   Perforce
* Integrated unit testing with unittest, nose, and doctest frameworks
* Django support:  Debugs Django templates, provides project setup tools,
   and runs Django unit tests
* Many other features including project manager, bookmarks, code snippets,
   diff/merge tool, OS command integration, indentation manager, PyLint
   integration, and perspectives
* Extremely configurable and may be extended with Python scripts
* Extensive product documentation and How-Tos for Django, matplotlib,
   Plone, wxPython, PyQt, mod_wsgi, Autodesk Maya, and many other frameworks

Please refer to http://wingware.com/wingide/features for a detailed listing
of features by product level.

System requirements are Windows 2000 or later, OS X 10.3.9 or later 
(requires
X11 Server), or a recent Linux system (either 32 or 64 bit).  Wing IDE 
supports
Python versions 2.0.x through 3.2.x and Stackless Python.

For more information, see the http://wingware.com/

**Downloads**

Wing IDE Professional and Wing IDE Personal are commercial software and
require a license to run. A free trial can be obtained directly from the
product when launched.

Wing IDE Pro -- Full-featured product:
http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide/4.1

Wing IDE Personal -- A simplified IDE:
http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-personal/4.1

Wing IDE 101 -- For teaching with Python:
http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101/4.1

**Purchasing and Upgrading**

Wing 4.x requires an upgrade for Wing IDE 2.x and 3.x users at a cost of
1/2 the full product pricing.

Upgrade a license:       https://wingware.com/store/upgrade
Purchase a new license:  https://wingware.com/store/purchase

Optional Support+Upgrades subscriptions are available for expanded
support coverage and free upgrades to new major releases:

http://wingware.com/support/agreement

Thanks!

-- 

The Wingware Team
Wingware | Python IDE
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com



From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 14:39:01 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:39:01 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> PS : @Dave there is a way to avoiding adding symbols to your global namespace, assign None to the module's name on import errors. Then before using it, just test the module bool value : if serial: serial.whateverMethod()

True, and that does avoid polluting namespace.  However, you shouldn't be testing for None as a bool; you should instead do an "if <module> is None:" (or, of course, "is not None").

- Dave



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 14:53:26 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 06:53:26 +1100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpOkbYCXxfnRR0dYSxYCh-5B8tDppWm6JPdKTNSUwxe1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> a = someexpression...
> b = a
> ....
> del a
>
> Does not (necessarily) delete the object that a refers to. ?It merely
> deletes the symbol a.

I'd have to classify that as part of the change of thinking necessary
for a refcounted language, and not specific to del at all. The del
statement is identical to "a = None" in terms of deleting objects;
someone who's come from C++ might want to explicitly del every
variable before returning, but that's the only way that it's tied to
'del'.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:01:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:01:40 +1100
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:39 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
> True, and that does avoid polluting namespace. ?However, you shouldn't be testing for None as a bool; you should instead do an "if <module> is None:" (or, of course, "is not None").

Why not? Is there some other way for the module object to evaluate as false?

ChrisA


From passiday at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:37:03 2011
From: passiday at gmail.com (Passiday)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:37:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
Message-ID: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>

Hello,

I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.

I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.

Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:45:52 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:45:52 +1100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoqOGyrjRrxfcvYL_dWjbLTmYSisuXv4Aw126vC1ELAfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Passiday <passiday at gmail.com> wrote:
> The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.

Hmm. If it's to be an educational platform, I would recommend doing
something like the W3Schools "tryit" page [1] and just go back to the
server each time. You have potential security issues to watch out for
(so it may be worth chrooting your interpreter), but it's sure to be
easier than rewriting the entire interpreter in another language. You
would have to maintain your implementation as the language evolves,
keep it bug-free, etc, etc.

ChrisA

[1] eg http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_basic


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 15:52:49 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:52:49 -0700
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnMswkQUTXn_qxCrbF7XBmf1aDLihRikwK2cjOCJY_X=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Passiday <passiday at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.

You could take a look at pyjamas, but it's precompiled.  I don't know
whether they have support for runtime compilation at all.


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:08:28 2011
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:08:28 +0100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <4EC2D4CC.2090601@gmail.com>

On 15-11-2011 21:37, Passiday wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?
skulpt ?

cheers,
Stef


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:20:33 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:20:33 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:39 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> True, and that does avoid polluting namespace.  However, you shouldn't be testing for None as a bool; you should instead do an "if <module> is None:" (or, of course, "is not None").
> 
> Why not? Is there some other way for the module object to evaluate as false?

Well, probably not.  It was my understanding that "None" evaluating to a Boolean false was not necessarily guaranteed; I've even gotten some warnings from Python to that effect, though I can't recall the context in which that happened.  In any case, PEP 8 states:

      Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
      'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.

      Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
      -- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
      None was set to some other value.  The other value might have a type
      (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!

Obviously, that last bit doesn't apply to modules; they're not going to evaluate as False in general.  I just bristle when I see people writing "if x" when they really mean "if x is not None", perhaps because it's not The Right Way(tm)?  It mostly comes down to aesthetics, I guess.  Write what you really mean.

- Dave



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:34:02 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:34:02 +1100
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>   ? ?Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
> ? ? ?'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.
>
> ? ? ?Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
> ? ? ?-- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
> ? ? ?None was set to some other value. ?The other value might have a type
> ? ? ?(such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!

It's probably quicker to execute "if x is None" than "if x"
(presumably the former just compares the two pointers). On the other
hand, it's more compact to leave off the "is None". And on the
gripping hand, neither "quicker to execute" nor "more compact" equates
to "more Pythonic".

ChrisA


From arnodel at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 16:42:22 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:42:22 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1ZDAnWRH2GDWHFaLFvanx1Ga6n5=Cb79jX4oPNpeO52rQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 November 2011 21:34, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ? ? ?Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
>> ? ? ?'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.
>>
>> ? ? ?Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
>> ? ? ?-- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
>> ? ? ?None was set to some other value. ?The other value might have a type
>> ? ? ?(such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>
> It's probably quicker to execute "if x is None" than "if x"
> (presumably the former just compares the two pointers). On the other
> hand, it's more compact to leave off the "is None". And on the
> gripping hand, neither "quicker to execute" nor "more compact" equates
> to "more Pythonic".

It's idiomatic to write "x is None" when you want to know whether x is None.

-- 
Arnaud


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 17:09:31 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:09:31 -0700
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6cK1ZDAnWRH2GDWHFaLFvanx1Ga6n5=Cb79jX4oPNpeO52rQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ6cK1ZDAnWRH2GDWHFaLFvanx1Ga6n5=Cb79jX4oPNpeO52rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnfjtq3Zfof9aSC_CvpbC7ehge5cf_Dc=zGUYtiP5AmxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's idiomatic to write "x is None" when you want to know whether x is None.

It's also idiomatic to just write "if x:" when you want to know
whether x is something or nothing, and that's what I would probably do
here.  Either is correct.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 15 17:15:18 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:15:18 -0500
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnMswkQUTXn_qxCrbF7XBmf1aDLihRikwK2cjOCJY_X=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<CALwzidnMswkQUTXn_qxCrbF7XBmf1aDLihRikwK2cjOCJY_X=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9uo9p$6uc$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/15/2011 3:52 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Passiday<passiday at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>>
>> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> You could take a look at pyjamas, but it's precompiled.  I don't know
> whether they have support for runtime compilation at all.

Perhaps one could use pyjamas to compile pypy to javascript ;-).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 15 17:21:41 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 22:21:41 GMT
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2733.1321376515.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec2e5f4$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:01:23 +0000, Prasad, Ramit wrote:

> Can you expand on why 'del' is "tricky"/misleading?

People often imagine that the del statement sends a message to the object 
"please delete yourself", which then calls the __del__ method. That is 
incorrect.

"del x" is an unbinding operation, it removes the *name* "x" from the 
current namespace. As a side-effect, if the object which was bound to x 
no longer has any other references to it, then the garbage collector will 
delete it and __del__ may be called.

(I say "may be called" rather than "will" because there are circumstances 
where __del__ methods won't get called, such as during interpreter 
shutdown.)

On the other hand, "del x[i]" does work like the way people expect. It 
deletes items from collections (lists, dicts, etc.) and does so by 
calling the method x.__delitem__(i). This also may cause the garbage 
collector to delete the object which was at x[i] if that was the last 
reference to that object.

CPython's implementation keeps a count of references for each object, and 
the garbage collector deletes the object immediately that reference count 
reaches zero. This is fast, simple, deterministic (objects will be 
predictably deleted as soon as they can be), but simple-minded, and so it 
is aided by a second garbage collector which runs periodically, looking 
for reference cycles. You can set how often this second garbage collector 
runs using the gc module.

Jython uses the Java garbage collector, and IronPython the .Net garbage 
collector. Neither are reference counters, and (as far as I know) neither 
guarantees that objects will be deleted as soon as they are free to be 
deleted. They will be deleted whenever the garbage collector gets around 
to it.


-- 
Steven


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Nov 15 17:22:21 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:22:21 -0800
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuVR1KHBqV8D+gFZ4e1ftyGGX=fEcem5WvDXwyfdS0_UQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ? ? ?Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done with
>> ? ? ?'is' or 'is not', never the equality operators.
>>
>> ? ? ?Also, beware of writing "if x" when you really mean "if x is not None"
>> ? ? ?-- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to
>> ? ? ?None was set to some other value. ?The other value might have a type
>> ? ? ?(such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>
> It's probably quicker to execute "if x is None" than "if x"
> (presumably the former just compares the two pointers). On the other
> hand, it's more compact to leave off the "is None". And on the
> gripping hand, neither "quicker to execute" nor "more compact" equates
> to "more Pythonic".

I decided to run some tests to see which is faster. As is turns out,
in simple cases (eg, True), "if x: pass" is faster than "if x is None:
pass" if x is True, and otherwise its the same. If x is a custom type
(I only tested a simple custom class written in Python), "if x is
None: pass" is significantly faster.

Overall, performance-wise, it is irrelevant - use the code that is the
most clear in the situation. Only if there is a custom type involved,
and then only if that type defines Python code to be executed, does it
matter.

The tests (the code is shown later - its about 53 lines, with lots of
copy+paste...):
1a: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if None: pass
1b: 0.03 usec/pass  --  if True: pass
1c: 0.27 usec/pass  --  if customObjectWithNonZero: pass
1d: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if customObjectNoNonZero: pass
2a: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if None is None: pass
2b: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if True is None: pass
2c: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if customObjectWithNonZero is None: pass
2d: 0.04 usec/pass  --  if customObjectNoNonZero is None: pass

The tests were run on Python 2.6x64 on Windows:
2.6.4 (r264:75706, Aug  4 2010, 17:00:56) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)]

The code:
import timeit

def test():
	numRuns = 10000000
	
	statement1 = 'if x: pass'
	statement2 = 'if x is None: pass'
	setup1 = 'x = None'
	setup2 = 'x = True'
	setup3 = '''
class Test(object):
	def __nonzero__(self):
		return True
x = Test()'''
	setup4 = '''
class Test(object):
	pass
x = Test()'''
		
	t1a = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup1)
	t1b = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup2)
	t1c = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup3)
	t1d = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement1, setup=setup4)
	t2a = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup1)
	t2b = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup2)
	t2c = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup3)
	t2d = timeit.Timer(stmt=statement2, setup=setup4)
	
	a1 = []
	b1 = []
	c1 = []
	d1 = []
	a2 = []
	b2 = []
	c2 = []
	d2 = []
	for i in xrange(10):
		a1.append(1000000 * t1a.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		b1.append(1000000 * t1b.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		c1.append(1000000 * t1c.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		d1.append(1000000 * t1d.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		a2.append(1000000 * t2a.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		b2.append(1000000 * t2b.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		c2.append(1000000 * t2c.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
		d2.append(1000000 * t2d.timeit(number=numRuns)/numRuns)
	print "1a: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(a1) / len(a1),)
	print "1b: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(b1) / len(b1),)
	print "1c: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(c1) / len(c1),)
	print "1d: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(d1) / len(d1),)
	print "2a: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(a2) / len(a2),)
	print "2b: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(b2) / len(b2),)
	print "2c: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(c2) / len(c2),)
	print "2d: %.2f usec/pass" % (sum(d2) / len(d2),)


>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 15 17:25:16 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 22:25:16 GMT
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
	<mailman.2745.1321386809.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec2e6cb$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 06:53:26 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>> a = someexpression...
>> b = a
>> ....
>> del a
>>
>> Does not (necessarily) delete the object that a refers to. ?It merely
>> deletes the symbol a.
> 
> I'd have to classify that as part of the change of thinking necessary
> for a refcounted language, and not specific to del at all. 

Languages aren't refcounted. Or at least, *Python* isn't a refcounted 
language. CPython is a refcounted implementation. IronPython and Jython 
are not. del behaves exactly the same in IronPython and Jython as it does 
in CPython: it removes the name, which may have a side-effect of deleting 
the object.


> The del
> statement is identical to "a = None" in terms of deleting objects;

I'm not entirely sure what you arr trying to say here. I *think* you are 
trying to say is this:

    Given that `a` is bound to my_object initially, `del a` 
    from the point of view of my_object is no different 
    from re-binding a to some other object such as None 
    (or any other object).

which is true as far as it goes, but it fails to note that the name "a" 
no longer exists after `del a` while it does exist after `a = None`.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 15 17:34:34 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Nov 2011 22:34:34 GMT
Subject: suppressing import errors
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F8266E63-F932-4216-9E33-8333C1D62E43@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmofCYDy5rLPzCJPNMj5qM_KAc9606RmLKAtcaySjwf92w@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2755.1321395765.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec2e8fa$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:22:21 -0800, Chris Kaynor wrote:

> The tests (the code is shown later - its about 53 lines, with lots of
> copy+paste...):

Holy unnecessarily complicated code Batman!

This is much simpler:

[steve at ando ~]$ python -m timeit -s "x = None" "if x is None: pass"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0738 usec per loop
[steve at ando ~]$ python -m timeit -s "x = True" "if x is None: pass"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0799 usec per loop

The difference is too small to be significant. If I run the same tests 
multiple times, the winner could easily change.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 17:54:15 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:54:15 +1100
Subject: Extracting elements over multiple lists?
In-Reply-To: <4ec2e6cb$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <b9e53a75-7490-4b6a-844a-20cfce263939@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<j995eq$vr9$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>
	<cf007146-3a08-44c4-bf01-d1a9253c83e3@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<4EB828B3.1020509@sequans.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4740182FE@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<4EC2ACCC.2000100@davea.name>
	<mailman.2745.1321386809.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec2e6cb$0$29970$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmooBtAy+FsB6BVEokQ6z8oQoHmWUb1-9HAx5K2rwXbu0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Languages aren't refcounted. Or at least, *Python* isn't a refcounted
> language. CPython is a refcounted implementation. IronPython and Jython
> are not. del behaves exactly the same in IronPython and Jython as it does
> in CPython: it removes the name, which may have a side-effect of deleting
> the object.

Yes, I was sloppy there. A non-manually-memory-managed language, if
you will; it's part of Python's spec that you do NOT have to
explicitly release objects you're no longer using.

>> The del
>> statement is identical to "a = None" in terms of deleting objects;
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you arr trying to say here. I *think* you are
> trying to say is this:
>
> ? ?Given that `a` is bound to my_object initially, `del a`
> ? ?from the point of view of my_object is no different
> ? ?from re-binding a to some other object such as None
> ? ?(or any other object).
>
> which is true as far as it goes, but it fails to note that the name "a"
> no longer exists after `del a` while it does exist after `a = None`.

Right. Both actions have the same effect wrt deleting my_object; the
only connection between Python's "del" and C++'s "delete" is that,
which del shares with "a = None".

The fact is that, regardless of the Python implementation, deleting
*objects* is not the programmer's responsibility. The only thing he
can or must do is delete *names*.

del a
del globals()['a']
globals().__delitem__('a')

are all roughly equivalent (assuming that a is global). Maybe this is
the best way to explain it - that you're deleting from a "dictionary"
(which may or may not actually be implemented as a dict) of local
names.

ChrisA


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 17:59:12 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:59:12 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2750.1321392038.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2750.1321392038.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4EC2EEC0.2090806@yahoo.com>

On 11/15/2011 4:20 PM, David Riley wrote:
...
>        None was set to some other value.  The other value might have a type
>        (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>
> Obviously, that last bit doesn't apply to modules; they're not going to evaluate as False in general.  I just bristle when I see people writing "if x" when they really mean "if x is not None", perhaps because it's not The Right Way(tm)?  It mostly comes down to aesthetics, I guess.  Write what you really mean.

Actually Dave, as your quote from PEP 8 says, the difference is real. 
It's not just aesthetics.

Consider this:

x = None
if x:
   print('if x == true')
else:
   print('if x == false')
if x is None:
   print('x is None == true')
else:
   print('x is none == false')

y = ''
if y:
   print('if y == true')
else:
   print('if y == false')
if y is None:
   print('y is None == true')
else:
   print('y is none == false')

The result is:

if x == false
x is None == true
if y == false
y is none == false

     Alan


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 18:05:49 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:05:49 -0500
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <4EC2F04D.5030801@yahoo.com>

On 11/15/2011 3:37 PM, Passiday wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?

I don't have any good ideas for how to do this, but I do have a warning. 
  The JavaScript security model prohibits a lot of things that Python 
does not prohibit.  So if you need to do anything like access a file on 
the user's machine or talk to some computer other than the one you came 
from, it won't work.

    Alan


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 18:15:45 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:15:45 -0500
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <4EC2EEC0.2090806@yahoo.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
	<0601B8C7-9AEF-443A-A149-0F7D356345EF@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrP7fMg9UfxdsR=5j6EW4yFKf8gR4xYQD5zDwMUVxdmjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2750.1321392038.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4EC2EEC0.2090806@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0D538417-B0EC-4C2E-B810-53038AB86D3C@gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2011, at 5:59 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:

> On 11/15/2011 4:20 PM, David Riley wrote:
> ...
>>       None was set to some other value.  The other value might have a type
>>       (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!
>> 
>> Obviously, that last bit doesn't apply to modules; they're not going to evaluate as False in general.  I just bristle when I see people writing "if x" when they really mean "if x is not None", perhaps because it's not The Right Way(tm)?  It mostly comes down to aesthetics, I guess.  Write what you really mean.
> 
> Actually Dave, as your quote from PEP 8 says, the difference is real. It's not just aesthetics.

 I guess I meant it's aesthetics when it comes down to determining whether a module is None or not; a module is never going to evaluate to False under any feasible circumstances.  It's not an aesthetic difference when you consider that the global (or local) namespace may be polluted with other variables that have the same name as your module, but then your evaluation would be entirely invalid anyway.

But yes, in the general case, it's much more than an aesthetic difference, which is why I always write "if x is None" when I want to know if it's None (rather than False, 0, [], "", etc).  I have been bitten way too many times by doing the lazy thing to keep doing it.

- Dave



From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 21:22:11 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 03:22:11 +0100
Subject: redis beginner question
Message-ID: <CAOuJsM=gndD5jMkFGngX2EMhsebVYLgbZ5UCEUiBHptSPQrW7A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm reading the redis documentation and there is one thing that
bothers me. For redis, you need to start a server on localhost. Is
there an easy way that my Python script starts this server
automatically? Before using my script, I don't want to start
redis-server each time. When my program terminates, the server could
be shut down automatically.

Thanks,

Laszlo


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 21:51:19 2011
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

On Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:37:03 PM UTC-8, Passiday wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
> 
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
> 
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?


Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and have managed to build Python 2.7 with it.

The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.

https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki

Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:

http://repl.it/


Carl Banks


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:02:25 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:02:25 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> As a general rule, if any parent is invisible, you won't see the
> child, and if any parent is disabled, you can't access the child.


Yea, I'm becoming more familiar and comfortable with the GUI hierarchy as I
play around.  I do like how simple it is to test a concept in Tkinter (just
a couple lines builds you a window with any kind of widget you want).


> You
> may find that there's even a one-line command that will disable the
> window, open a new window, wait for the new window to close, and
> automatically reenable the window - an "open modal dialog" function or
> something.
>

Apparently I could not do what I was wanting to (state=DISABLED is not a
valid option to Toplevel).  What I wanted to do was something similar to
what the dialogs were doing from tkMessageBox.  The window didn't appear
changed, but no buttons could be clicked.  After looking through the
tkMessageBox.py source code, I found the method I was looking for:
grab_set.  Essentially, I just have to have my new window call its
grab_set() method to hog all events.  Not really "disabling" the root
window (which is why I had a hard time finding it on Google), but it's the
exact behavior I was looking for.
http://www.python-forum.org/pythonforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4930 was
helpful here.

The only other approach I (successfully) tried was to use the .withdraw()
method on the window during the constructor of the *new* window and execute
.deiconify() on it during the new window's destroy() method (before calling
Toplevel's destroy on self).  I still like the first way better.

Thanks!
Jason
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From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 15 22:11:48 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:11:48 -0500
Subject: redis beginner question
References: <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm reading the redis documentation and there is one thing that
> bothers me. For redis, you need to start a server on localhost. Is
> there an easy way that my Python script starts this server
> automatically? Before using my script, I don't want to start
> redis-server each time. When my program terminates, the server could
> be shut down automatically.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Laszlo

Why do you want to stop redis after your program terminates?  Generally, 
you just start redis up when the system boots and leave it running.


From john.37 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:28:46 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:28:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stucked with python logging module
Message-ID: <3ce63c21-1880-4cb2-979a-1c806ace4d8f@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I just scaned through the beginer's guide of logging module, but I
can't get anything from console. The demo just like this:

import logging
logging.debug("This is a demo")

Maybe I should do sth to put the log to stdout in basicConfig first?
Thanks in advance


From goldtech at worldpost.com  Tue Nov 15 22:38:48 2011
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:38:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
Message-ID: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
commands?

I don't need output of commands just what I typed it. I need it to
save between sessions - something that no shell seems to do. If I
reboot there will still be a command history somewhere.

Like bash history in Linux.

Thanks


From john.37 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:45:06 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:45:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <905c6590-84e0-4eab-80bd-3daf12d0a326@y15g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Maybe you're looking for ipython? History, tab-complete, sort of
things in it.

goldtech wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?
>
> I don't need output of commands just what I typed it. I need it to
> save between sessions - something that no shell seems to do. If I
> reboot there will still be a command history somewhere.
>
> Like bash history in Linux.
>
> Thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 22:49:37 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:49:37 +1100
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=2ttqEJv-jYUMp9We78UHmm+2P51jw9C62mhX+k4zgQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently I could not do what I was wanting to (state=DISABLED is not a
> valid option to Toplevel).? What I wanted to do was something similar to
> what the dialogs were doing from tkMessageBox.

Yes, that would be what you'd want. I wonder, though: Is Toplevel the
right window class? There may be a better class for a subwindow.
Again, I'm not familiar with Tkinter, but a quick google suggests that
Frame or Window might be worth looking into. Ideally, you want the
window to disable its parent and claim all events.

ChrisA


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 00:13:10 2011
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:43:10 +0530
Subject: Stucked with python logging module
In-Reply-To: <3ce63c21-1880-4cb2-979a-1c806ace4d8f@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <3ce63c21-1880-4cb2-979a-1c806ace4d8f@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8GtdPCU2KdU9GSDg7T9UiEJ+QoFibCTDo+tif_nQUrqzcjeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:58 AM, sword <john.37 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just scaned through the beginer's guide of logging module, but I
> can't get anything from console. The demo just like this:
>
> import logging
> logging.debug("This is a demo")
>
> Maybe I should do sth to put the log to stdout in basicConfig first?

Actually, the problem is not of the output location, but of the
logging level.  In the default configuration, logs at DEBUG level are
suppressed.  logging.basicConfig will be a simple way to change this.
Are you following the logging documentation at
http://docs.python.org/py3k/howto/logging.html#logging-basic-tutorial?
 This page is part of the documentation of the logging module, and is
suitable for first-time logging module users.

In your case, you can do this:

import logging
logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
logging.debug("This is a demo")

-- 
regards,
kushal


From john.37 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 01:09:53 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
Message-ID: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.

Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
#file: a.py
import logging

logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
def print_log():
    logger.debug("I'm module a")

#file: b.py just like a.py
import logging
logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
def print_log():
    logger.debug("I'm module b")

#file: main.py
import logging
from logging import Filter
logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
logger=logging.getLogger("main")
logger.debug("This is main process")
logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))

And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
log only. But it turned out that all logs there.  Is it the problem of
root logger?




From passiday at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 02:05:21 2011
From: passiday at gmail.com (Passiday)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:05:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <27707069.794.1321427121532.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqff21>

Thanks Carl, this looks like a good base to start from.


From passiday at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 02:07:15 2011
From: passiday at gmail.com (Passiday)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:07:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <4EC2F04D.5030801@yahoo.com>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<4EC2F04D.5030801@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <11268744.795.1321427235257.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqff21>

Of course, I am aware of this. But the file system can be emulated, and certain networking can be mediated via the server, too. But for starts, I don't plan to go beyond the basic file operations, if at all.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Nov 16 03:37:47 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:37:47 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3765B.2020204@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/11/2011 03:38, goldtech wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?

Have a look at DreamPie:

http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/

TJG


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Nov 16 04:08:24 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:08:24 +0100
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
Message-ID: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain 
performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found 
that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are 
much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU 
load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc.

What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools 
available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, 
but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret 
programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions?

Cheers!

Uli



From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 05:39:09 2011
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:39:09 +0100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo-TfoRLS3H76FUvx-xDj21kWkc0cERVb0jOtxVx_CQ5Xg@mail.gmail.com>

H?llo

I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in
> order to provide a web-based application with python scripting
> capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the
> python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in
> JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the
> interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all
> this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming
> in python.
>

You might be looking for http://www.skulpt.org/
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From babiucandreea at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 06:05:10 2011
From: babiucandreea at gmail.com (Andreea Babiuc)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:05:10 +0000
Subject: suppressing import errors
In-Reply-To: <4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
References: <CAC82khmG+zH3Cd5pRfou+0FED18MHfizLzJL4EM+V+Pw+q17+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALvWhxvc=Ng28YeiL0Onv9YCixfQtOqgLENWJqYgoRSYvo_juA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC82khn3WBjXY7podVq6RX0d0j38w1vbtN3fNOCSGLcu2X_jOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D97140E4-9B09-4EAE-BB92-0F038FCDBA5A@gmail.com>
	<4EC2B656.7050902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAC82khn=vp3cVnQHcJ=xN8-6PaJty_xAbUJ2=uKOuy5PV=LFMw@mail.gmail.com>

Loving the offtopic guys, sorry I have to go back to my problem now..

In the module I want to import I have a few import statements for Maya
commands that don't work outside Maya unless I use the Maya standalone
interpreter.
So before I import this module I need to make sure I import maya and
maya.standalone.
I make sure I place the correct paths in sys.path, but I get the following
error:
    import maya.standalone
ImportError:
/apps/Linux64/aw/maya2012/lib/python2.6/site-packages/maya/../../../../lib/libOGSDeviceOGL-2_7.so:
undefined symbol: cgGetParameterBufferIndex
Now, I've googled this error and couldn't find anything on it and I'd have
no idea why it wouldn't work. It's not a python related error so I
understand if you couldn't help me with this, but since you've asked :D

I am thinking of using eval for each line in the module i want to import
(instead of importing it )  and just ignoring the maya related commands.
I can't and shouldn't edit any of these modules, I instead have to parse
them and interpret the parameters types without actually executing the
functions..

Thanks a lot,
Andreea





On 15 November 2011 18:58, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>wrote:

> David Riley wrote:
>
>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Andreea Babiuc wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 15 November 2011 17:24, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> As with any Python code, you can wrap the import into a try: except
>>> block.
>>>
>>> try:
>>>  import badModule
>>> except:
>>>
>>>  pass # Or otherwise handle the exception - possibly importing an
>>> alternative module.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm, I know this might sound silly, but if it fails I still want to
>>> import the module and disable those lines of code that are related to the
>>> reason while the module failed to be imported in the first place.  Even if
>>> that makes the code not 100% correct.
>>>
>>> Does that make sense ?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It makes sense.  It probably also makes sense to only do an "except
>> ImportError", since if there are other errors (say, syntax errors in a
>> module you're trying to import, rather than its absence, you probably want
>> to know about it.
>>
>> To disable code that won't work without the module you're trying to
>> import, you can always set flags in your module.  For example, I've got a
>> project at work that can use a variety of communications interfaces,
>> including using PySerial for serial port comms.  But if someone doesn't
>> have PySerial installed, I want it to fail gracefully and just not support
>> serial.  So I can do the following:
>>
>>
>> try:
>>   import serial
>>   _serial_enabled = True
>> except ImportError:
>>   print("PySerial not installed - serial ports not supported!")
>>   _serial_enabled = False
>>
>>
>> And then elsewhere in my module, I can check the value of _serial_enabled
>> to see if I should e.g. list the serial ports in available communications
>> interfaces.
>>
>> Of course, if there's some other error in PySerial (maybe I installed a
>> broken version with a syntax error?), that error will get propagated up,
>> which is a good thing, because I'd rather know that PySerial is broken than
>> just have it tell me it's not installed (which is what would happen if I
>> simply caught all exceptions).  Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>>
>>
> If I'm not wrong the OP wants to disable the line *in the module being
> imported*, which is kindof silly and doesn't make sense to answer his
> question.
>
> Anreea, tell us why the module you are importing is failing and if this
> module is yours, we may provide you a proper way to handle this situation
> (though I'm pretty sure everything is in Dave's proposal).
>
> JM
> PS : @Dave there is a way to avoiding adding symbols to your global
> namespace, assign None to the module's name on import errors. Then before
> using it, just test the module bool value : if serial:
> serial.whateverMethod()
>



-- 
Blog: Http://andreeababiuc.ro
Photo Portfolio: http://royaa.daportfolio.com
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Nov 16 06:40:02 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:40:02 +0100
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
In-Reply-To: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3A112.70400@sequans.com>

sword wrote:
> The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
> contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.
>
> Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
> #file: a.py
> import logging
>
> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> def print_log():
>     logger.debug("I'm module a")
>
> #file: b.py just like a.py
> import logging
> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> def print_log():
>     logger.debug("I'm module b")
>
> #file: main.py
> import logging
> from logging import Filter
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> logger=logging.getLogger("main")
> logger.debug("This is main process")
> logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))
>
> And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
> log only. But it turned out that all logs there.  Is it the problem of
> root logger?
>
>
>   
Hi,

First of all, in the code you provided we can't see where you import a & 
b, and when you call their respective print_log method.
Secondly,Filter("a") would allow only the "a" log events, not forbid 
them. quoting the docs: "if name is specified, it names a logger which, 
together with its children, will have its events allowed through the 
filter."

As for your problem it may come from the fact that you applied the 
filter to the 'main' logger, while you probably want to add the filter 
to the *root* logger. Your current hierarchy is

root
  - main
  - a
  - b

events fired from 'a' will be handled by the root logger, not the main.
root = logging.getLogger()
root.addFilter('main')
root.addFilter('a')
root.addFilter('b')

JM


From john.37 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 07:31:08 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:31:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 16, 7:40?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> sword wrote:
> > The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
> > contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.
>
> > Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
> > #file: a.py
> > import logging
>
> > logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> > def print_log():
> > ? ? logger.debug("I'm module a")
>
> > #file: b.py just like a.py
> > import logging
> > logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
> > def print_log():
> > ? ? logger.debug("I'm module b")
>
> > #file: main.py
> > import logging
> > from logging import Filter
> > logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > logger=logging.getLogger("main")
> > logger.debug("This is main process")
> > logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))
>
> > And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
> > log only. But it turned out that all logs there. ?Is it the problem of
> > root logger?
>
> Hi,
>
> First of all, in the code you provided we can't see where you import a &
> b, and when you call their respective print_log method.
> Secondly,Filter("a") would allow only the "a" log events, not forbid
> them. quoting the docs: "if name is specified, it names a logger which,
> together with its children, will have its events allowed through the
> filter."
>
> As for your problem it may come from the fact that you applied the
> filter to the 'main' logger, while you probably want to add the filter
> to the *root* logger. Your current hierarchy is
>
> root
> ? - main
> ? - a
> ? - b
>
> events fired from 'a' will be handled by the root logger, not the main.
> root = logging.getLogger()
> root.addFilter('main')
> root.addFilter('a')
> root.addFilter('b')
>
> JM

Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
main.py looks like this:
#main.py
import logging
from logging import Filter
import a
import b

logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
root = logging.getLogger()
root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
would pass this filter

logger = logging.getLogger("main")
logger.debug("main process")
a.print_log()
b.print_log()

####
And It still prints out all the log msg. :(


From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 08:09:43 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:09:43 +0100
Subject: redis beginner question
In-Reply-To: <roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMkFfaaNgi4-15iEkEJqOg-GOJW2gakJBrqaGWyPqFKGeA@mail.gmail.com>

> Why do you want to stop redis after your program terminates? ?Generally,
> you just start redis up when the system boots and leave it running.

Hi,

OK, so it's more like MySQL or PostgeSQL, i.e. leave the server
running in the background. I wanted to use it like SQLite, i.e. let it
run only when I need it.

Laszlo


From dutche at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 08:48:16 2011
From: dutche at gmail.com (Eduardo Oliva)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:48:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multiple threads
Message-ID: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.

What I want to do is:

  I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
  I know that Semaphores would help with that.
  But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

Any help would be great.

Thank you in advance


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 08:55:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:55:40 +1100
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Eduardo Oliva <dutche at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.
>
> What I want to do is:
>
> ?I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
> ?I know that Semaphores would help with that.
> ?But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

First off, it's better in CPython (the most popular Python) to use
multiple processes than multiple threads. That aside, what you're
looking at is a pretty common model - a large number of tasks being
served by a pool of workers.

Have a look at the multiprocessing module, specifically Pool:
Version 2: http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
Version 3: http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/multiprocessing.html

Should be fairly straightforward.

ChrisA


From hfaber at invalid.net  Wed Nov 16 09:07:48 2011
From: hfaber at invalid.net (Henrik Faber)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:07:48 +0100
Subject: Multiple threads
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <ja0g3h$nb0$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 16.11.2011 14:48, Eduardo Oliva wrote:

>   I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
>   I know that Semaphores would help with that.
>   But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

Absolute standard request, has nothing to do with Python. The way to go
(in Cish pseudocode) is:

thread() {
	/* do work */
	[...]

	/* finished! */
	semaphore++;
}

semaphore = 2
while (jobs) {
	semaphore--; 	// will block if pool exhausted
	thread();
}

// in the end, collect remaining two workers
semaphore -= 2		// will block until all are finished


Best regards,
Henrik


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 09:36:40 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:36:40 -0500
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>

In article <95bcp8-bft.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
 Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain 
> performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found 
> that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are 
> much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU 
> load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc.
> 
> What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools 
> available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, 
> but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret 
> programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions?

It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately 
measure, things like CPU or network load.  There's so much stuff you 
can't even begin to see.  The state of your main memory cache.  Disk 
fragmentation.  What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs 
having to do a physical disk read.  How slow your DNS server is today.

What I suggest is instrumenting your unit test suite to record not just 
the pas/fail status of every test, but also the test duration.  Stick 
these into a database as the tests run.  Over time, you will accumulate 
a whole lot of performance data, which you can then start to mine.

While you're running the tests, gather as much system performance data 
as you can (output of top, vmstat, etc) and stick that into your 
database too.  You never know when you'll want to refer to the data, so 
just collect it all and save it forever.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 09:37:09 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:37:09 -0500
Subject: redis beginner question
References: <mailman.2758.1321410156.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-1D1ED2.22114815112011@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.2766.1321449007.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-8F1618.09370916112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2766.1321449007.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Why do you want to stop redis after your program terminates? ?Generally,
> > you just start redis up when the system boots and leave it running.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> OK, so it's more like MySQL or PostgeSQL, i.e. leave the server
> running in the background.

That's how I would treat it.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 16 09:50:51 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:50:51 +0100
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja0ijv$u3o$1@dough.gmane.org>

sword wrote:

> Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> main.py looks like this:
> #main.py
> import logging
> from logging import Filter
> import a
> import b
> 
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> root = logging.getLogger()
> root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> would pass this filter
> 
> logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> logger.debug("main process")
> a.print_log()
> b.print_log()
> 
> ####
> And It still prints out all the log msg. :(

Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:

$ cat demo.py
import logging
class Filter(logging.Filter):
    def filter(self, record):
        print "applying filter", self.name
        return True

logging.basicConfig()

loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
for logger in loggers:
    logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))

[handler] = logging.getLogger().handlers
handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))

for logger in loggers:
    logger.critical("whatever")
$ python demo.py
applying filter filter at root
applying filter filter at handler
CRITICAL:root:whatever
applying filter filter at a
applying filter filter at handler
CRITICAL:a:whatever
applying filter filter at a.b
applying filter filter at handler
CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
$

As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger 
and of the handler(s) are applied.





From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 16 10:01:15 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:01:15 +0100
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <ja0j7r$38m$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 16.11.2011 14:48, schrieb Eduardo Oliva:
> Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.
> 
> What I want to do is:
> 
>   I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
>   I know that Semaphores would help with that.
>   But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.

I suggest a slight different approach: use a queue [1] and create two
worker threads that consume the queue. You don't need multiprocessing
because you are already using multiple processes here (one Python and
two ffmpeg processes).

Christian

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/queue.html



From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Wed Nov 16 11:45:29 2011
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:45:29 +0100
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <ja0pbf$4em$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 16.11.2011 14:48 schrieb Eduardo Oliva:
> Hello, I have a py script that reads for all "m2ts" video files and convert them to "mpeg" using ffmpeg with command line.
>
> What I want to do is:
>
>    I need my script to run 2 separated threads, and then when the first has finished, starts the next one....but no more than 2 threads.
>    I know that Semaphores would help with that.
>    But the problem here is to know when the thread has finished its job, to release the semaphore and start another thread.
>
> Any help would be great.

I'm not sure if you need threads at all: if you launch a process with 
subprocess, it runs and you only would have to wait() for it. The same 
can be done with two processes.

Pseudocode:

LIMIT = 2

processes = []


def do_waiting(limit):
     while len(processes) >= limit:
         % take the first one...
         sp = processes.pop(0)
         % wait for it...
         st = sp.wait(100)
         if is None:
             % timeout, not finished yet, push back.
             processes.append(sp)
         else:
             % finished - don't push back, let outer for loop continue.
             print sp, "has finished with", st

for fname in list:
     % launch process ...
     sp = subprocess.Popen(...)
     % ... and register it.
     processes.append(sp)
     % If we are on the limit, wait for process to finish.
     do_waiting(LIMIT)

do_waiting(1)


Thomas


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Wed Nov 16 11:57:27 2011
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Frederic Rentsch)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:57:27 +0100
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
Message-ID: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>

Hi all,


I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:

	try: (command)
	except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e

I may get something like:

	(1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")

If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
the name:

	except: (handle)

But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

Frederic





From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 12:00:57 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:00:57 +0000
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> First off, it's better in CPython (the most popular Python) to use
> multiple processes than multiple threads.


I had been looking into treads and process/subprocess myself a while ago
and couldn't decide which would suit what I needed to do best. I'm still
very confused about the whole thing. Can you elaborate on the above a bit
please?

Cheers,

Jack
-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Nov 16 12:09:39 2011
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:09:39 -0800
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch
<anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
>
> ? ? ? ?try: (command)
> ? ? ? ?except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
>
> I may get something like:
>
> ? ? ? ?(1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
>
> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> the name:
>
> ? ? ? ?except: (handle)
>
> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

except Exception, e: (or, in Py3, except Exception as e is prefereed).

Note that you should generally avoid bare except statements "except:"
as that will catch everything, including KeyboardInterrupt and
SystemExit which may not be desirable.

Even without saving the exception in the except statement, you can get
the type, value, and traceback with the sys.exc_info command. See
http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.exc_info

For example:

py>import sys
py>try:
py> raise RuntimeError
py> except:
py> print sys.exc_info()
py>
(<type 'exceptions.RuntimeError'>, RuntimeError(), <traceback object
at 0x0000000002371588>)

>
> Frederic
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov 16 12:27:52 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:27:52 -0500
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>

On 11/16/2011 12:00 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Chris Angelico<rosuav at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> First off, it's better in CPython (the most popular Python) to use
>> multiple processes than multiple threads.
>
> I had been looking into treads and process/subprocess myself a while ago
> and couldn't decide which would suit what I needed to do best. I'm still
> very confused about the whole thing. Can you elaborate on the above a bit
> please?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jack
Threads and processes are a concept that exists in your operating 
system, and Python can use either of them to advantage, depending on the 
problem.  Note that different OS also handle them differently, so code 
that's optimal on one system might not be as optimal on another.  Still, 
some generalities can be made.

Each process is a separate program, with its own address space and its 
own file handles, etc.  You can examine them separately with task 
manager, for example.  If you launch multiple processes, they might not 
even all have to be python, so if one problem can be handled by an 
existing program, just run it as a separate process.   Processes are 
generally very protected from each other, and the OS is generally better 
at scheduling them than it is at scheduling threads within a single 
process.  If you have multiple cores, the processes can really run 
simultaneously, frequently with very small overhead.  The downside is 
that you cannot share variables between processes without extra work, so 
if the two tasks are very interdependent, it's more of a pain to use 
separate processes.

Within one process, you can have multiple threads.  On some OS, and in 
some languages, this can be extremely efficient.  Some programs launch 
hundreds of threads, and use them to advantage.  By default, it's easy 
to share data between threads, since they're in the same address space.  
But the downsides are 1) it's very easy to trash another thread by 
walking on its variables.  2) Python does a lousy job of letting threads 
work independently.  For CPU-bound tasks, using separate threads is 
likely to be slower than just doing it all in one thread.

-- 

DaveA



From tahoemph at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 12:55:24 2011
From: tahoemph at gmail.com (Michael Hunter)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:55:24 -0800
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAGHENPSX25MH-GoXOERV19iXd8em=W+_owmSJi6V5GsmeV=1sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> On 11/16/2011 12:00 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>[...] Processes [...] and the OS is generally better at scheduling them than it is at
> scheduling threads within a single process. ?If you have multiple cores, the
> processes can really run simultaneously, frequently with very small
> overhead. ?[...]

Maybe you are trying to simplify things but in a lot of cases this is
just false.  In at least some operating systems these days a thread is
the basic unit that is scheduled.  Processes are thread containers
that provide other things (fds, separate address space, etc.).  The
comment about multiple cores can be extended to multiple threads on a
core (CMT) but applies to threads as well as processes.  Switching
between processes tends to be heavier weight then switching between
threads in a process because of the needs to change the address space.

Just because Python sucks at threads doesn't make them heavier for the OS.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't use multiprocessing.  The problem
asked about seems a good fit to me to a single python process starting
and managing a set of external converter processes.

              Michael


From furoscame at 7fun.de  Wed Nov 16 13:00:38 2011
From: furoscame at 7fun.de (furoscame)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:00:38 +0100
Subject: How to use pySerial under Windows 7 without administrator rights
Message-ID: <ja0tno$eel$1@news.m-online.net>

Hello together,

currently I try to use pySerial under Windows 7. But it is not possible 
to open a serial port without running the script under adminstrator 
rights. Other programs like Terraterm are able to so without 
adminstrator rights. What is the reason for that and is it possible open 
a port without administrator rights in Python?

regards furoscame


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov 16 13:06:40 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:06:40 -0500
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <CAGHENPSX25MH-GoXOERV19iXd8em=W+_owmSJi6V5GsmeV=1sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
	<CAGHENPSX25MH-GoXOERV19iXd8em=W+_owmSJi6V5GsmeV=1sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC3FBB0.80601@davea.name>

On 11/16/2011 12:55 PM, Michael Hunter wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Dave Angel<d at davea.name>  wrote:
>> On 11/16/2011 12:00 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>> [...] Processes [...] and the OS is generally better at scheduling them than it is at
>> scheduling threads within a single process.  If you have multiple cores, the
>> processes can really run simultaneously, frequently with very small
>> overhead.  [...]
>
> Maybe you are trying to simplify things but in a lot of cases this is
> just false.  In at least some operating systems these days a thread is
> the basic unit that is scheduled.  Processes are thread containers
> that provide other things (fds, separate address space, etc.).  The
> comment about multiple cores can be extended to multiple threads on a
> core (CMT) but applies to threads as well as processes.  Switching
> between processes tends to be heavier weight then switching between
> threads in a process because of the needs to change the address space.
>
> Just because Python sucks at threads doesn't make them heavier for the OS.
>
> That doesn't mean you shouldn't use multiprocessing.  The problem
> asked about seems a good fit to me to a single python process starting
> and managing a set of external converter processes.
>
>                Michael
>

No response is deserved.

-- 

DaveA


From d at davea.name  Wed Nov 16 13:30:39 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:30:39 -0500
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <4EC3FF56.7030101@davea.name>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>	<CAAdqOWFJftDH=9YaiHOk6mbqYGgLXK7zPEKcUhENqnzbFd2VNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3FF56.7030101@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4EC4014F.8080105@davea.name>

On 11/16/2011 01:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> (You're top-posting.  Put your remarks AFTER what you're quoting)
>
> On 11/16/2011 12:52 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>> Ok, I thought that processes would do the same job as threads. So 
>> would the
>> general rule be some thing like so:
>>
>> If I want another piece of work to run (theoretically) along side my 
>> main
>> script, and I want to share data between them, I should use a thread and
>> share data with the thread-safe queue.
>> If the work I want done can function and complete on its own, go for a
>> process.
>>
>> Would that be about right?
>>
>
> Yes, with all the caveats I mentioned before.  With some language 
> implementations, and with some operating systems, and on some 
> CPU-systems, the guidelines could be different.  They all trade off in 
> ways too complex to describe here.
>
> For example, if a thread is mostly doing I/O, it may be just as 
> efficient as a separate process, even if sharing data isn't an issue.
>
> And in some languages, sharing data between processes isn't all that 
> tough, either.
>
>
Well, you sent me a mail without including the list (just use 
Reply-All), and I tried to add the list in.  Unfortunately, I picked the 
wrong one, so i sent this to Tutor by mistake.  I'll try to fix that 
now, sorry.




-- 

DaveA



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Wed Nov 16 13:39:32 2011
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Frederic Rentsch)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:39:32 +0100
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
	<CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1321468772.2315.35.camel@hatchbox-one>

On Wed, 2011-11-16 at 09:09 -0800, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch
> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
> >
> >        try: (command)
> >        except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
> >
> > I may get something like:
> >
> >        (1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
> >
> > If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> > want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> > the name:
> >
> >        except: (handle)
> >
> > But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> > way and it's probably ridiculously simple.
> 
> except Exception, e: (or, in Py3, except Exception as e is prefereed).
> 
> Note that you should generally avoid bare except statements "except:"
> as that will catch everything, including KeyboardInterrupt and
> SystemExit which may not be desirable.
> 
> Even without saving the exception in the except statement, you can get
> the type, value, and traceback with the sys.exc_info command. See
> http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.exc_info
> 
> For example:
> 
> py>import sys
> py>try:
> py> raise RuntimeError
> py> except:
> py> print sys.exc_info()
> py>
> (<type 'exceptions.RuntimeError'>, RuntimeError(), <traceback object
> at 0x0000000002371588>)

Chris, Thanks very much! Great help!

Frederic




From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 16 13:47:45 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:47:45 +0100
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <1321468772.2315.35.camel@hatchbox-one>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
	<CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1321468772.2315.35.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <ja10gh$g30$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 16.11.2011 19:39, schrieb Frederic Rentsch:
>> py>import sys
>> py>try:
>> py> raise RuntimeError
>> py> except:
>> py> print sys.exc_info()
>> py>
>> (<type 'exceptions.RuntimeError'>, RuntimeError(), <traceback object
>> at 0x0000000002371588>)
> 
> Chris, Thanks very much! Great help!

How about using the excellent logging framework instead of rolling your
own stuff? It can print the traceback, too.

>>> import logging
>>> logging.basicConfig()
>>> log = logging.getLogger("mymodule")
>>> try:
...     raise ValueError("test")
... except Exception:
...     log.exception("some message")
...
ERROR:mymodule:some message
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ValueError: test

Christian



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Nov 16 15:21:16 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:21:16 +0000
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
	<CALvWhxtY+gaC+xHx4qdakAMstFkOC8eUxRiV9tBGRO3Q46QqXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC41B3C.6040606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 16/11/2011 17:09, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch
> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
>>
>>         try: (command)
>>         except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
>>
>> I may get something like:
>>
>>         (1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
>>
>> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
>> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
>> the name:
>>
>>         except: (handle)
>>
>> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
>> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.
>
> except Exception, e: (or, in Py3, except Exception as e is prefereed).
>
In Python 3, "except Exception as e" is not just preferred: it's the
only form.

> Note that you should generally avoid bare except statements "except:"
> as that will catch everything, including KeyboardInterrupt and
> SystemExit which may not be desirable.
>
[snip]

Very true.


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 15:42:52 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:42:52 -0500
Subject: (n00b) Tkinter trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp=2ttqEJv-jYUMp9We78UHmm+2P51jw9C62mhX+k4zgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEk9e3qP0vOnNtAG0NgeoyyBdf98Da+ODu0zMvT+6SntO9aJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3rEvJ6f-4ycEW3DMijsZXH1s_WOySeVsn_VFr2COsFWNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8P6Ui-VzczZb0gw-s6twGb+Mfb4rf7y9W7fba8JL7tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3o7sEWi3GutU9tZmb23hNgEUM6=fv4vZJUL1JY61SkVCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqeOX4cUrmNO_Pe2QCd5P0AuHAe7=7CQzJHQ5h9CZe_NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEk9e3oFAc=y24k0ZBLuoWxdpj2MoON2NzXd_SCp9C9riQMFWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmp=2ttqEJv-jYUMp9We78UHmm+2P51jw9C62mhX+k4zgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3rkfzKkehzWqKG4hWJ_Y5EeHKsC4U2q33AAcfGPOOOXOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Jason Swails <jason.swails at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Apparently I could not do what I was wanting to (state=DISABLED is not a
> > valid option to Toplevel).  What I wanted to do was something similar to
> > what the dialogs were doing from tkMessageBox.
>
> Yes, that would be what you'd want. I wonder, though: Is Toplevel the
> right window class? There may be a better class for a subwindow.
> Again, I'm not familiar with Tkinter, but a quick google suggests that
> Frame or Window might be worth looking into. Ideally, you want the
> window to disable its parent and claim all events.
>

I think Toplevel is right.  Frame isn't actually a window (a window has to
be its parent), and I've never seen any documentation regarding a Window
class (perhaps it's just meant to be a base class that Toplevel inherits
from?).  I think a separate window needs to be a Toplevel instance (or
instance of a Toplevel-derived class).

Pulling on the tkMessageBox example again, their base Dialog class inherits
from Toplevel.  In any case, I've actually found that Tkinter is relatively
straightforward to learn, despite some of the bashing it's received here
(admittedly I've never tried PyGTK or wxpython or any of the other toolkits
because I want to keep dependencies within the stdlib as much as possible).

Thanks!
Jason
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From rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 15:48:37 2011
From: rafadurancastaneda at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rafael_Dur=E1n_Casta=F1eda?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:48:37 +0100
Subject: redis beginner question
In-Reply-To: <CAOuJsM=gndD5jMkFGngX2EMhsebVYLgbZ5UCEUiBHptSPQrW7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuJsM=gndD5jMkFGngX2EMhsebVYLgbZ5UCEUiBHptSPQrW7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC421A5.4010601@gmail.com>

El 16/11/11 03:22, Jabba Laci escribi?:
> Hi,
>
> I'm reading the redis documentation and there is one thing that
> bothers me. For redis, you need to start a server on localhost. Is
> there an easy way that my Python script starts this server
> automatically? Before using my script, I don't want to start
> redis-server each time. When my program terminates, the server could
> be shut down automatically.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Laszlo
I think you are misunderstanding the docs, on ubuntu (or whatever you 
use) you can do apt-get install redis-server and you'll get what you want.

HTH


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 15:50:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:50:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <17096391.271.1321476625430.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

You can see an example on how to use multiprocessing.Pool at http://pythonwise.blogspot.com/2011/03/convert-oggs-to-mp3-fast-way.html

This is ogg -> mp3 but the same idea.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 16 16:09:18 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:09:18 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:

> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?

I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
<URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html> including editing
features, tab completion, history management, and a persistent history
file.

You can then use that functionality in your Python interactive startup
file. Here's mine:

=====
# $HOME/.pythonrc
# User configuration for interactive Python shell.

import sys
import os
import os.path
import atexit

# Tab completion with readline.
# Cribbed from <URL:http://docs.python.org/lib/module-rlcompleter.html>.
try:
    import readline
except ImportError:
    sys.stderr.write("Module readline not available.\n")
else:
    import rlcompleter

    # Enable tab completion.
    readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

    # Persistent command history.
    histfile = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], ".python_history") 
    try:
        readline.read_history_file(histfile)
    except IOError:
        # Existing history file can't be read.
        pass 
    atexit.register(readline.write_history_file, histfile)

    del histfile

del sys, os, atexit

=====

Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems. Yet another reason
why MS Windows is not a good choice for developing software I guess.

-- 
 \        ?The difference between religions and cults is determined by |
  `\                      how much real estate is owned.? ?Frank Zappa |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 16 16:18:14 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:18:14 -0500
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
In-Reply-To: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <ja19at$jra$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/16/2011 11:57 AM, Frederic Rentsch wrote:

> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> the name:
>
> 	except: (handle)
>
> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

Bare except is a holdover from when exceptions could be strings rather 
than an instance of a subclass of BaseException. A Python 3 interpreter 
in effect runs code within a try-except block something like this:

try:
     <your code>
except BaseException as __exception__:
     <print traceback and exit>

However, use Exception instead of BaseException in your code unless you 
REALLY know what you are doing and why.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 18:42:02 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:42:02 +0000
Subject: pymacs?
Message-ID: <4EC44A4A.70201@gmail.com>

After a long time, and since it was included iin python-mode, I wanted 
to try if I can
get ropemacs working finally.
I have tried many possible things, also in Emacs -Q, and I actually got 
it working
only once, apparently by pure luck with Emacs -Q:

(setq py-load-python-mode-pymacs-p nil)

(setq ca-pymacs-path (expand-file-name 
"~/Emacs-configuration/python-mode/pymacs"))
(add-to-list 'load-path ca-pymacs-path)
(setenv "PYMACS_PYTHON" "python2.7")
(require 'pymacs)

(pymacs-load "ropemacs" "rope-")
(setq ropemacs-confirm-saving 'nil)

The problem is that this configuration doesn't use python-mode.el but 
the standard python.el,
all my attempts to make this work on my normal configuration failed.
Did anyone got both correctly working?

Thanks..


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 18:46:30 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:46:30 -0500
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbwE1wi_=k82-9BEur3191K8XTXeczbLN_hTJPZtNmOfuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:
>
>> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
>> commands?
>
> I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
> linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
> <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html> including editing
> features, tab completion, history management, and a persistent history
> file.
>
> You can then use that functionality in your Python interactive startup
> file. Here's mine:
>
> =====
> # $HOME/.pythonrc
> # User configuration for interactive Python shell.
>
> import sys
> import os
> import os.path
> import atexit
>
> # Tab completion with readline.
> # Cribbed from <URL:http://docs.python.org/lib/module-rlcompleter.html>.
> try:
> ? ?import readline
> except ImportError:
> ? ?sys.stderr.write("Module readline not available.\n")
> else:
> ? ?import rlcompleter
>
> ? ?# Enable tab completion.
> ? ?readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>
> ? ?# Persistent command history.
> ? ?histfile = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], ".python_history")
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?readline.read_history_file(histfile)
> ? ?except IOError:
> ? ? ? ?# Existing history file can't be read.
> ? ? ? ?pass
> ? ?atexit.register(readline.write_history_file, histfile)
>
> ? ?del histfile
>
> del sys, os, atexit
>
> =====
>
> Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
> linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems. Yet another reason
> why MS Windows is not a good choice for developing software I guess.

 I'm not sure what documentation you're reading, but your code works fine on
 Windows.   Thanks.  [It is necessary to properly set PYTHONSTARTUP]


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 16 18:59:27 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:59:27 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2786.1321487193.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

David Robinow <drobinow at gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
> > linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
> > <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html>
[?]

> > Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
> > linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems.

>  I'm not sure what documentation you're reading

The same documentation I linked to above. Immediately below the title,
it specifies a limited set of platforms: ?Platforms: Unix? limiting the
availability of the described module.

> but your code works fine on Windows. Thanks.

I'm glad to know that. Perhaps you could investigate why, and suggest an
update to the above documentation if it's wrong? The bug tracker at
<URL:http://bugs.python.org/> would be the appropriate place for such a
suggestion.

-- 
 \        ?Intellectual property is to the 21st century what the slave |
  `\                              trade was to the 16th.? ?David Mertz |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 19:49:31 2011
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:49:31 -0500
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2786.1321487193.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbxtM6K0SZhC63JVGV8N_+YpXQZCDH8GqmTxtMhNt=4BRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> David Robinow <drobinow at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> > I don't know about MS Windows, but the Python interactive shell can be
>> > linked with the GNU Readline library for managing its command line
>> > <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html>
> [?]
>
>> > Reading the documentation, I see that the ?readline? library is only
>> > linked with Python on Unix-alike operating systems.
>
>> ?I'm not sure what documentation you're reading
>
> The same documentation I linked to above. Immediately below the title,
> it specifies a limited set of platforms: ?Platforms: Unix? limiting the
> availability of the described module.
>
>> but your code works fine on Windows. Thanks.
>
> I'm glad to know that. Perhaps you could investigate why, and suggest an
> update to the above documentation if it's wrong? The bug tracker at
> <URL:http://bugs.python.org/> would be the appropriate place for such a
> suggestion.

Upon further investigation, it turns out that I'm using pyreadline
from http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyreadline. I'd forgotten I'd
installed it. No documentation fixes appear to be necessary.

"The pyreadline package is a python implementation of GNU readline
functionality it is based on the ctypes based UNC readline package by
Gary Bishop. It is not complete. It has been tested for use with
windows 2000 and windows xp."
  It appears to work in Vista also, at least for the purposes
discussed in this thread.


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Wed Nov 16 20:07:37 2011
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:07:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: try - except. How to identify errors unknown in advance?
References: <1321462647.2315.31.camel@hatchbox-one>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.11.17.01.07.36@tombstonezero.net>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:57:27 +0100, Frederic Rentsch wrote:

> I'd like to log MySQL errors. If I do:
> 
> 	try: (command)
> 	except MySQLdb.OperationalError, e: print e
> 
> I may get something like:
> 
> 	(1136, "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1")
> 
> If I don't know in advance which error to expect, but on the contrary
> want to find out which error occurred, I can catch any error by omitting
> the name:
> 
> 	except: (handle)
> 
> But now I don't have access to the error message 'e'. I'm sure there's a
> way and it's probably ridiculously simple.

"except" catches any exception that inherits from its argument, and all 
MySQL exceptions inherit from MySQLError, so something like this will 
catch only MySQL exceptions and nothing else:

    try: (command)
    except MySQLdb.MySQLError as e:
        print(e)

Dan



From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 20:57:42 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:57:42 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
Message-ID: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>

I'm trying to use a custom version of mongoengine.  I cloned the git 
repo and put the directory on my PYTHONPATH, but python is still 
importing the system's installed version.  Looking at sys.path, it's 
obvious why:

$ echo $PYTHONPATH 
/home/roy/songza:/home/roy/lib/mongoengine

>>> pprint.pprint(sys.path)
['',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/selenium-2.0a5-py2.6.egg',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/unittest2-0.5.1-py2.6.egg',
 
'/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pymongo-1.9-py2.6-linux-x86_64.eg
g',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/virtualenv-1.5.2-py2.6.egg',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/mongoengine-0.5.2-py2.6.egg',
 '/home/roy/songza',
 '/home/roy/lib/mongoengine',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-tk',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/PIL',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10',
 '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6',
 '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gtk-2.0',
 '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0',
 '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages']

The system eggs come before my path.  I found 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2006-July/006520.html in 
the archives; it explains that eggs come before PYTHONPATH, but doesn't 
explain how to get around this problem.  I emphatically agree with 
Michael Bayer who said:

> I cant think of a  possible scenario where a path would explicitly
> exist in PYTHONPATH,  non-egg or egg, where the user would still like the
> system-wide installation to take precedence

So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead 
of the system egg?  I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on 
sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to 
contemplate.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 21:30:57 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:30:57 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
Message-ID: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>

When I run this (python 2.6.1):

class C:
    @staticmethod
    def foo():
        pass

    print "inside", foo, callable(foo)

print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)

I get:

inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False
outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True

I don't understand.  Why is foo not callable inside of the class 
definition?  Where this comes up is that I'm trying to use a callable 
default in mongoengine:

class User(Document):
    @staticmethod
    def _get_next_id():
      [blah, blah, blah]  
      return id

    user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

The way mongoengine works is if callable(default) is true, it calls 
default() to get the real value to use.  At the point where the 
IntField() call is made, _get_next_id is not callable, and eventually I 
end up with:

ValidationError: <staticmethod object at 0x2a3c1a0> could not be 
converted to int


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 21:44:00 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:44:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <e9f5814a-6f0d-4985-aebb-5b68b8c799c2@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 12:30?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> class C:
> ? ? @staticmethod
> ? ? def foo():
> ? ? ? ? pass
>
> ? ? print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> I don't understand. ?Why is foo not callable inside of the class
> definition?

Consider this:

	>>> def foo(): pass
	...
	>>> foo = staticmethod(foo)
	>>> callable(foo)
	False

A staticmethod by itself does not appear to be callable.

Your internal 'foo' is referring to the staticmethod wrapper. Your
external 'C.foo' refers to the result returned by the class
mechanism's __getattr__, which I'm guessing is munged into a callable
at that point.

Where this comes up is that I'm trying to use a callable
> default in mongoengine:
>
> class User(Document):
> ? ? @staticmethod
> ? ? def _get_next_id():
> ? ? ? [blah, blah, blah]
> ? ? ? return id
>
> ? ? user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

What you're effectively trying to do is use a class before it has been
constructed to help construct itself.

Just define it as a helper function before the class declaration.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 16 21:52:57 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:52:57 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<e9f5814a-6f0d-4985-aebb-5b68b8c799c2@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-8EE081.21525716112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<e9f5814a-6f0d-4985-aebb-5b68b8c799c2 at x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>,
 alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> What you're effectively trying to do is use a class before it has been
> constructed to help construct itself.
> 
> Just define it as a helper function before the class declaration.

Yes, this is the workaround I ended up with.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 22:04:23 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:04:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <3ed98382-5d03-4491-a24a-032f47f5ed5c@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 7:09?am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> You can then use that functionality in your Python interactive startup
> file. Here's mine:

Awesome, thank you for this. I use iPython where ever possible but
there are times where I just can't avoid the default shell and this
will help immensely.

Cheers!


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Nov 16 22:24:02 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:24:02 -0800
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4EC47E52.9080708@stoneleaf.us>

Roy Smith wrote:
> class User(Document):
>     @staticmethod
>     def _get_next_id():
>       [blah, blah, blah]  
>       return id
> 
>     user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

If you don't call '_get_next_id()' from any class methods (in other 
words, if you don't need to ever say 'self._gen_next_id()') then you can 
remove the '@staticmethod':

     def _get_next_id():
       [blah, blah, blah]
       return id

     user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

If you do need to sometimes call it from a method then still leave off 
the '@staticmethod', and give 'self' a default of 'None':

     def _get_next_id(self=None):
       [blah, blah, blah]
       return id

     user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

~Ethan~


From snorble at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 16 23:17:21 2011
From: snorble at hotmail.com (snorble)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:17:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
Message-ID: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
space, etc).

So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
downloads a Python file and runs it.

With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.

With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
server, and clients download it and run it.

Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
recommended? Thank you.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 16 23:43:24 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Nov 2011 04:43:24 GMT
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:30:57 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
> 
> class C:
>     @staticmethod
>     def foo():
>         pass
>     print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
> 
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
> 
> I get:
> 
> inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False 
> outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True
> 
> I don't understand.  Why is foo not callable inside of the class
> definition?


This has come up before.

http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/34396-static-method-object-not-callable

http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/462734-make-staticmethod-objects-callable


However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects 
callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:

http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.html

See also this thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html



-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 00:26:20 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:26:20 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-11A6C6.00262017112011@news.panix.com>

In article <4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> This has come up before.
> 
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/34396-static-method-object-not-callable
> 
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/462734-make-staticmethod-objects-callabl
> e
> 
> 
> However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects 
> callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:
> 
> http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.h
> tml
> 
> See also this thread:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html

Thanks for the links.  It always makes me feel good when I get tripped 
up by something complex and subtle.  It almost makes up for all the 
times when I feel like a dolt because I got tripped up by something 
obvious and elementary...


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 01:20:43 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:20:43 -0500
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<4ec490ec$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJ4uojJ407btTuYdVm0r+Fu-nXXyMsntO1WU8Q=5shcXA@mail.gmail.com>

> However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects
> callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:
>
> http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.html
>
> See also this thread:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html

The notes didn't actually mention what was discussed, but re the
second thread, the issue was not changing staticmethod to be callable.
Making staticmethod callable is fine, but __get__ still has to return
the original function, not self.

The context of the second thread was that staticmethod was imagined as
one way to eliminate the difference between C and Python functions,
when added to a class. But this doesn't quite work, unless
staticmethod.__get__ returned self (which broke for related reasons).
If it returns the original function (as it does now) then the issue is
unresolved: C functions still behave differently from Python
functions, so you can't quite just hide them behind a staticmethod and
let everything remain the same. It doesn't eliminate the difference in
behavior in certain circumstances, e.g.:

    class MyClass:
        foo = staticmethod(foo)

    class MyOtherClass:
        foo = MyClass.foo

    MyOtherClass().foo() # what happens if foo is builtin vs pure-Python?

In the context of this thread, though, just making it callable without
modifying __get__ is fine. Or at least, I don't see the issue.

Devin

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:30:57 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
>
>> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
>>
>> class C:
>> ? ? @staticmethod
>> ? ? def foo():
>> ? ? ? ? pass
>> ? ? print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>>
>> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>>
>> I get:
>>
>> inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False
>> outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True
>>
>> I don't understand. ?Why is foo not callable inside of the class
>> definition?
>
>
> This has come up before.
>
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/34396-static-method-object-not-callable
>
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/462734-make-staticmethod-objects-callable
>
>
> However, the fix is not as simple as merely making staticmethod objects
> callable. This was discussed at the 2011 language summit:
>
> http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/03/python-language-summit-rough-notes.html
>
> See also this thread:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/109090.html
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 01:44:23 2011
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:44:23 +0200
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 04:30, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
>
> class C:
> ? ?@staticmethod
> ? ?def foo():
> ? ? ? ?pass
>
> ? ?print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> I get:
>
> inside <staticmethod object at 0x421df0> False
> outside <function foo at 0x41e6f0> True
>
> I don't understand. ?Why is foo not callable inside of the class
> definition? ?Where this comes up is that I'm trying to use a callable
> default in mongoengine:
>
> class User(Document):
> ? ?@staticmethod
> ? ?def _get_next_id():
> ? ? ?[blah, blah, blah]
> ? ? ?return id
>
> ? ?user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)
>
> The way mongoengine works is if callable(default) is true, it calls
> default() to get the real value to use. ?At the point where the
> IntField() call is made, _get_next_id is not callable, and eventually I
> end up with:
>
> ValidationError: <staticmethod object at 0x2a3c1a0> could not be
> converted to int

Try this (untested):

class C:
   @staticmethod
   def foo():
       pass

   print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)



-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


From anushritripathi at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 02:05:30 2011
From: anushritripathi at gmail.com (Anushree Tripathi)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:35:30 +0530
Subject: problem in running script file of modeller
Message-ID: <CAAx43Bw0NDi-A1cCbaDP1OnENhe-U4qPZ8AbojGzH+STY91zhQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I run  mod9.10  model-default.py command on command window.It is
showing that 'import site' failed;use -v for traceback and also error in
opening alignment.ali file.Now what do i have to change.Please reply me as
soon as possible.
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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 02:37:57 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:37:57 -0700
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Try this (untested):
>
> class C:
> ? @staticmethod
> ? def foo():
> ? ? ? pass
>
> ? print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)

If you had tested this, you would have found that you get a NameError,
since C is not yet bound inside the class block where you define it.


From whatsjacksemail at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 02:38:04 2011
From: whatsjacksemail at gmail.com (Jack Keegan)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:38:04 +0000
Subject: Multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <4EC4014F.8080105@davea.name>
References: <31766634.4.1321451296410.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<CAPTjJmoAWni4-wyKB4HgAJ5KvTbz42_BC3f22MOnugUmmXzVtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdqOWF=irJXFO2q2+o8jpM09GMLf8N+NTNGTOtMhwKgtG6jag@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3F298.1030604@davea.name>
	<CAAdqOWFJftDH=9YaiHOk6mbqYGgLXK7zPEKcUhENqnzbFd2VNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EC3FF56.7030101@davea.name> <4EC4014F.8080105@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAAdqOWEdCp5SNTVt3HYS7dSA0-OtQ5Pb_1-B-Kwmhif5TjoaUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 11/16/2011 01:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> (You're top-posting.  Put your remarks AFTER what you're quoting)
>>
>> On 11/16/2011 12:52 PM, Jack Keegan wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I thought that processes would do the same job as threads. So would
>>> the
>>> general rule be some thing like so:
>>>
>>> If I want another piece of work to run (theoretically) along side my main
>>> script, and I want to share data between them, I should use a thread and
>>> share data with the thread-safe queue.
>>> If the work I want done can function and complete on its own, go for a
>>> process.
>>>
>>> Would that be about right?
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, with all the caveats I mentioned before.  With some language
>> implementations, and with some operating systems, and on some CPU-systems,
>> the guidelines could be different.  They all trade off in ways too complex
>> to describe here.
>>
>> For example, if a thread is mostly doing I/O, it may be just as efficient
>> as a separate process, even if sharing data isn't an issue.
>>
>> And in some languages, sharing data between processes isn't all that
>> tough, either.
>>
>>
>>  Well, you sent me a mail without including the list (just use
> Reply-All), and I tried to add the list in.  Unfortunately, I picked the
> wrong one, so i sent this to Tutor by mistake.  I'll try to fix that now,
> sorry.


Apologies, I usually reply-all and don't usually top-post. Was just rushing
out the door when I responded last time.

Cheers,

Jack

-- 
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers
of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in
triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
- Carl Sagan [Pale Blue Dot]
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From bastian.ballmann at notch-interactive.com  Thu Nov 17 03:36:59 2011
From: bastian.ballmann at notch-interactive.com (Bastian Ballmann)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:36:59 +0100
Subject: pymacs?
In-Reply-To: <4EC44A4A.70201@gmail.com>
References: <4EC44A4A.70201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC4C7AB.9050807@notch-interactive.com>

Hi,

why not try out emacs-for-python 
https://github.com/gabrielelanaro/emacs-for-python
It's has everything included one needs as a python programmer on emacs 
and even if it's not your choice you can lookup pymacs configuration there.
HTH && have a nice day

Basti


Am 17.11.2011 00:42, schrieb Andrea Crotti:
> After a long time, and since it was included iin python-mode, I wanted 
> to try if I can
> get ropemacs working finally.
> I have tried many possible things, also in Emacs -Q, and I actually 
> got it working
> only once, apparently by pure luck with Emacs -Q:
>
> (setq py-load-python-mode-pymacs-p nil)
>
> (setq ca-pymacs-path (expand-file-name 
> "~/Emacs-configuration/python-mode/pymacs"))
> (add-to-list 'load-path ca-pymacs-path)
> (setenv "PYMACS_PYTHON" "python2.7")
> (require 'pymacs)
>
> (pymacs-load "ropemacs" "rope-")
> (setq ropemacs-confirm-saving 'nil)
>
> The problem is that this configuration doesn't use python-mode.el but 
> the standard python.el,
> all my attempts to make this work on my normal configuration failed.
> Did anyone got both correctly working?
>
> Thanks..


-- 
Bastian Ballmann / Web Developer
Notch Interactive GmbH / Badenerstrasse 571 / 8048 Z?rich
Phone +41 43 818 20 91 / www.notch-interactive.com



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov 17 03:53:07 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:53:07 +0100
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
In-Reply-To: <roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <kkuep8-nqd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 16.11.2011 15:36, schrieb Roy Smith:
> It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately
> measure, things like CPU or network load.  There's so much stuff you
> can't even begin to see.  The state of your main memory cache.  Disk
> fragmentation.  What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs
> having to do a physical disk read.  How slow your DNS server is today.

Fortunately, I am in a position where I'm running tests on one system 
(generic desktop PC) while the system to test is another one, and there 
both hardware and software is under my control. Since this is rather 
smallish and embedded, the power and load of the desktop don't play a 
significant role, the other side is usually the bottleneck. ;)


> What I suggest is instrumenting your unit test suite to record not just
> the pas/fail status of every test, but also the test duration.  Stick
> these into a database as the tests run.  Over time, you will accumulate
> a whole lot of performance data, which you can then start to mine.

I'm not sure. I see unit tests as something that makes sure things run 
correctly. For performance testing, I have functions to set up and tear 
down the environment. Then, I found it useful to have separate code to 
prime a cache, which is something done before each test run, but which 
is not part of the test run itself. I'm repeating each test run N times, 
recording the times and calculating maximum, minimum, average and 
standard deviation. Some of this is similar to unit testing (code to set 
up/tear down), but other things are too different. Also, sometimes I can 
vary tests with a factor F, then I would also want to capture the 
influence of this factor. I would even wonder if you can't verify the 
behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow.

All of this is rather general, not specific to my use case, hence my 
question if there are existing frameworks to facilitate this task. Maybe 
it's time to create one...


> While you're running the tests, gather as much system performance data
> as you can (output of top, vmstat, etc) and stick that into your
> database too.  You never know when you'll want to refer to the data, so
> just collect it all and save it forever.

Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since 
there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they 
require a human to interpret them.


Cheers!

Uli



From john.37 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 04:06:03 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:06:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 16, 10:50?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> sword wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > main.py looks like this:
> > #main.py
> > import logging
> > from logging import Filter
> > import a
> > import b
>
> > logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > root = logging.getLogger()
> > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > would pass this filter
>
> > logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> > logger.debug("main process")
> > a.print_log()
> > b.print_log()
>
> > ####
> > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> $ cat demo.py
> import logging
> class Filter(logging.Filter):
> ? ? def filter(self, record):
> ? ? ? ? print "applying filter", self.name
> ? ? ? ? return True
>
> logging.basicConfig()
>
> loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> for logger in loggers:
> ? ? logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> [handler] = logging.getLogger().handlers
> handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))
>
> for logger in loggers:
> ? ? logger.critical("whatever")
> $ python demo.py
> applying filter filter at root
> applying filter filter at handler
> CRITICAL:root:whatever
> applying filter filter at a
> applying filter filter at handler
> CRITICAL:a:whatever
> applying filter fil... at a.b
> applying filter filter at handler
> CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> $
>
> As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> and of the handler(s) are applied.

Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
out only the interested info from it before.


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Nov 17 04:17:21 2011
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:17:21 +0100
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ja2jf7$bl7$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 17.11.2011 03:30 schrieb Roy Smith:
> When I run this (python 2.6.1):
>
> class C:
>      @staticmethod
>      def foo():
>          pass
>
>      print "inside", foo, callable(foo)
>
> print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> I get:
>
> inside<staticmethod object at 0x421df0>  False
> outside<function foo at 0x41e6f0>  True

Right. The reason is that on an attribute access, you get a __get__ call 
of the "real" attribute.

That is, if your class has a "regular" method, it is stored there as a 
formal function. But if you access it (C.f), you get 
C.__dict__["f"].__get__(None, C) (not sure about the arguments, but you 
should get the idea).

A functions __get__ returns a unbound or bound method, depending on its 
own arguments.

With a static method, you don't want this to happen. So you wrap your 
"regular" function into a staticmethod object, which has a __get__() 
method itself just returning the wrapped function object.

Look at this:

 >>> class C(object): pass
...
 >>> f=lambda *a:a
 >>> C.f=f
 >>> s=staticmethod(f)
 >>> C.s=s
 >>> # Now we test the access
...
 >>> f
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> s
<staticmethod object at 0x00B48A90>
 >>> C.f
<unbound method C.<lambda>>
 >>> C().f
<bound method C.<lambda> of <__main__.C object at 0x00B48810>>
 >>> C.s
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> C().s
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> f.__get__(None, C)
<unbound method C.<lambda>>
 >>> f.__get__(C(), C)
<bound method C.<lambda> of <__main__.C object at 0x00B48AD0>>
 >>> s.__get__(None, C)
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>
 >>> s.__get__(C(), C)
<function <lambda> at 0x00B43E30>


That's how things work.

If you want to get back the "real" function from a staticmethod, you 
either call its __get__ with an arbitrary argument, or you do it the 
clean way and do a

def deref(s):
     class C(object): s=s
     return s.s

and so do a

class User(Document):
      @staticmethod
      def _get_next_id():
        [blah, blah, blah]
        return id

      user_id = IntField(required=True, default=deref(_get_next_id))


HTH,


Thomas


From usenet at solar-empire.de  Thu Nov 17 04:48:17 2011
From: usenet at solar-empire.de (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:48:17 +0100
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to use a custom version of mongoengine.  I cloned the git 
> repo and put the directory on my PYTHONPATH, but python is still 
> importing the system's installed version.  Looking at sys.path, it's 
> obvious why:
> 
> $ echo $PYTHONPATH 
> /home/roy/songza:/home/roy/lib/mongoengine
> 
>>>> pprint.pprint(sys.path)
> ['',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/selenium-2.0a5-py2.6.egg',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/unittest2-0.5.1-py2.6.egg',
> 
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pymongo-1.9-py2.6-linux-x86_64.eg
> g',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/virtualenv-1.5.2-py2.6.egg',
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/mongoengine-0.5.2-py2.6.egg',
> '/home/roy/songza',
> '/home/roy/lib/mongoengine',
[...]

> The system eggs come before my path.  I found 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2006-July/006520.html in 
> the archives; it explains that eggs come before PYTHONPATH, but doesn't 
> explain how to get around this problem.  I emphatically agree with 
> Michael Bayer who said:
> 
>> I cant think of a  possible scenario where a path would explicitly
>> exist in PYTHONPATH,  non-egg or egg, where the user would still like the
>> system-wide installation to take precedence
> 
> So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead 
> of the system egg?  I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on 
> sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to 
> contemplate.

The only way I found is to edit the easy_install.pth file and comment
the two lines starting with "import sys". You'll have to do that every
time you install/upgrade an egg via easy_install (and maybe setuptools).
In your case the right file should be
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/easy_install.pth

BTW: You could try pip (http://www.pip-installer.org/) instead of
easy_install, it doesn't mess with sys.path.

Ciao
Marc


From anushritripathi at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 04:51:33 2011
From: anushritripathi at gmail.com (Anushree Tripathi)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:21:33 +0530
Subject: problem in running script file (model-default.py)
Message-ID: <CAAx43Bw9bTT4vwdfAeLLdy6HPatcVYwsgS7vEhBjCyp_W1iviA@mail.gmail.com>

When I run script file(i.e.,model-default.py) on IDLE interface,I m
getting this error:
read_al_373E> Protein specified in ALIGN_CODES(i) was not found in the
alignment file; ALIGN_CODES(       1) =  2hyd
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Nov 17 05:12:09 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:12:09 -0800
Subject: problem in running script file (model-default.py)
In-Reply-To: <CAAx43Bw9bTT4vwdfAeLLdy6HPatcVYwsgS7vEhBjCyp_W1iviA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAx43Bw9bTT4vwdfAeLLdy6HPatcVYwsgS7vEhBjCyp_W1iviA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRXd6vDb8Qae1ryGpQ8LTO=_YOjtzrN7nkkU6FVbdQG2g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Anushree Tripathi
<anushritripathi at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I run script file(i.e.,model-default.py) on IDLE interface,I m
> getting?this error:
> read_al_373E> Protein specified in ALIGN_CODES(i) was not found in the
> alignment file; ALIGN_CODES(?????? 1) =? 2hyd

Such an error is entirely specific to the particular script you are
running (and/or possibly due to a lack of command-line arguments since
you're running it via IDLE).
Either consult the script's documentation or author, or post the
script here. We can't debug/troubleshoot code we don't have access to.

Regards,
Chris


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Thu Nov 17 05:39:33 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 05:39:33 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hi All,

I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
I am trying to implement a ProgressBar  for this installer. So that the user will come to know the progress of the installation.
I am using pypi progressbar module.
The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.

I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1() updates it to 5%,  func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the console.

My questions are:

1.       Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and powershell.?  As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and writing only in powershell.  !


2.       Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?



Thanks

Nikunj
Bangalore - India

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From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 06:13:38 2011
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:13:38 +0200
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDXFkOMoCSwToC5zVss_rjA5Jh9YWuPqYS-mjmE30WMhSZc4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 09:37, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try this (untested):
>>
>> class C:
>> ? @staticmethod
>> ? def foo():
>> ? ? ? pass
>>
>> ? print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo)
>
> If you had tested this, you would have found that you get a NameError,
> since C is not yet bound inside the class block where you define it.
>

I hadn't tested, I'm at work far from Idle. Just shooting from the hip.

For that matter, though, this does work in Java (I'm pretty sure but
again, untested right now).

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 06:38:19 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:38:19 +1100
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
In-Reply-To: <CAKDXFkOMoCSwToC5zVss_rjA5Jh9YWuPqYS-mjmE30WMhSZc4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<CAKDXFkMZ=TLYO1sPCU1JMBkNOibchnE361_HGHCX+EbWn_GsBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidn0GsfapWEK20Csb5Fwh1D6wA=o05zdxoA8k-63HoO1Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKDXFkOMoCSwToC5zVss_rjA5Jh9YWuPqYS-mjmE30WMhSZc4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp5-i3HQsXZSd==CcCE9sYiE0ic7j77b=c+P74+d=ncWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm at work far from Idle.

Taken out of context, I'm sure your boss is pleased. :)

ChrisA


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 09:03:15 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:03:15 -0500
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
	<kkuep8-nqd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <roy-56C820.09031517112011@news.panix.com>

In article <kkuep8-nqd.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
 Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:

> Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since 
> there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they 
> require a human to interpret them.

As much as possible, you want to automate things so no human 
intervention is required.

For example, let's say you have a test which calls foo() and times how 
long it takes.  You've already mentioned that you run it N times and 
compute some basic (min, max, avg, sd) stats.  So far, so good.

The next step is to do some kind of regression against past results.  
Once you've got a bunch of historical data, it should be possible to 
look at today's numbers and detect any significant change in performance.

Much as I loathe the bureaucracy and religious fervor which has grown up 
around Six Sigma, it does have some good tools.  You might want to look 
into control charts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_chart).  You 
think you've got the test environment under control, do you?  Try 
plotting a month's worth of run times for a particular test on a control 
chart and see what it shows.

Assuming your process really is under control, I would write scripts 
that did the following kinds of analysis:

1) For a given test, do a linear regression of run time vs date.  If the 
line has any significant positive slope, you want to investigate why.

2) You already mentioned, "I would even wonder if you can't verify the 
behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow".  Of course you 
can.  Run your test a bunch of times with different input sizes.  I 
would try something like a 1-2-5 progression over several decades (i.e. 
input sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, etc)  You will have to 
figure out what an appropriate range is, and how to generate useful 
input sets.  Now, curve fit your performance numbers to various shape 
curves and see what correlation coefficient you get.

All that being said, in my experience, nothing beats plotting your data 
and looking at it.


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 09:09:34 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:09:34 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
Message-ID: <roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>

In article <1s1fp8-6la.ln1 at pluto.solar-empire.de>,
 Marc Christiansen <usenet at solar-empire.de> wrote:

> > So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead 
> > of the system egg?  I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on 
> > sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to 
> > contemplate.
> 
> The only way I found is to edit the easy_install.pth file and comment
> the two lines starting with "import sys". You'll have to do that every
> time you install/upgrade an egg via easy_install (and maybe setuptools).
> In your case the right file should be
> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/easy_install.pth
> 
> BTW: You could try pip (http://www.pip-installer.org/) instead of
> easy_install, it doesn't mess with sys.path.

But, you're talking about installers.  I'm talking about if I've already 
got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to 
pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one?

In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
load first.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov 17 10:04:49 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 17 Nov 2011 15:04:49 GMT
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9FA0995C66F1Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> load first.
> 

Have you considered running your code in a virtualenv?
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From candide at free.invalid  Thu Nov 17 10:48:04 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:48:04 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ec52cb7$0$16583$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks to all




Le 12/11/2011 13:27, Chris Angelico a ?crit :
 > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM, candide<candide at free.invalid>  wrote:
 >> import foo as f
 >>
 >> equivalent to
 >>
 >> import foo
 >> f = foo
 >>
 >
 > Not quite, it's closer to:
 >
 > import foo
 > f = foo
 > del foo
 >



Le 12/11/2011 13:43, Tim Chase a ?crit :
 > On 11/12/11 05:56, candide wrote:
 >> First, could you confirm the following syntax
 >>
 >> import foo as f
 >>
 >> equivalent to
 >>
 >> import foo
 >> f = foo
 >
 > and the issuing "del foo"
 >




Correct, I missed this point : I didn't realize that importing is also 
binding.


From candide at free.invalid  Thu Nov 17 10:48:32 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:48:32 +0100
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2669.1321100968.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2669.1321100968.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec52cd3$0$16583$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Le 12/11/2011 13:29, Arnaud Delobelle a ?crit :

>> -- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math attribute
>> to be private but I don't figure out why this matters.
>
> This way math doesn't get bound in the global namespace when doing
> "from module import *"
>


To contextualize more, I guess you are referring to the following 
situation :



# a.py
import math as _math


# b.py
from a import *

print _math.sin(0)       # raise a NameError
print math.sin(0)        # raise a NameError



so the as syntax is also seful for hiding name, isn'it ?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 11:55:36 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
Message-ID: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>

Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I 
uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py 
file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing 
with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same 
results.

If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to 
Edit with IDLE.

My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.

Comments?


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Thu Nov 17 12:05:17 2011
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:05:17 +0000
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:


> But, you're talking about installers.  I'm talking about if I've already 
> got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to 
> pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one?
>
> In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> load first.

Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about
with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to
work... is there a situation in which it doesn't?



From spartan.the at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 12:37:30 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <c41ec96b-f12f-4b34-b416-57e94fead5e8@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On 17 Nov, 18:55, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> results.
>
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> Edit with IDLE.
>
> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> Comments?

I prefer "fail fast" approach too.

If right-click not working on Win7 is your reason to say good bye to
Python then better you do so.


From ray040123 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 12:37:49 2011
From: ray040123 at gmail.com (ray)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:37:49 +0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC5466D.8000000@gmail.com>

On Friday, November 18, 2011 12:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago 
> I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py 
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing 
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. 
> Same results.
>
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference 
> to Edit with IDLE.
>
> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> Comments?
Why not good-bye Windows ? Actually you may want to try Vim, or gVim in 
Windows. I think the people who use IDLE is with really good patient.


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 12:39:56 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:39:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I 
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py 
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing 
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same 
> results.

I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
"python not functioning".

> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to 
> Edit with IDLE.

> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.

It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
Win 7.

Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From therve at free.fr  Thu Nov 17 13:02:17 2011
From: therve at free.fr (=?UTF-8?B?VGhvbWFzIEhlcnbDqQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:02:17 +0100
Subject: Twisted 11.1.0 Released
Message-ID: <4EC54C29.80300@free.fr>

On behalf of Twisted Matrix Laboratories, I am pleased to announce the
release of Twisted 11.1.

Highlights of the 185 tickets closed include:

  * The poll reactor as default where applicable, instead of select
    everywhere.

  * A new SSL implementation only relying on OpenSSL for cryptography,
    (not I/O) making it more robust.

  * Several improvements to the fresh HTTP/1.1 client implementation,
    including proxy and cookie support.

  * My personal favorite: a new howto has been published on test-driven
    development with Twisted.

  * A special mention to the new abortConnection support on TCP and SSL
    connections, heroically pushed by Itamar and Jean-Paul, and the
    oldest ticket closed by this release.

This is the last release supporting Python 2.4 (the support on Windows stopped with 11.0).

For more information, see the NEWS file here:

  http://twistedmatrix.com/Releases/Twisted/11.1/NEWS.txt

Download it now from:

  http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.tar.bz2 or
  http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.5/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.5.msi or
  http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.6/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.6.msi or
  http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.7/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.7.msi

Thanks to the supporters of the Twisted Software Foundation and to the many contributors for this release.

-- 
Thomas



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 17 13:42:36 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Nov 2011 18:42:36 GMT
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec5559c$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> results.

I find I get better results when I stop "playing with matters" and start 
treating them seriously :)

If you need help fixing the file associations on your Windows 7 machine, 
you'll probably get better advice on a dedicated Windows forum. Or even 
by googling for instructions:

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=how%20to%20fix%20windows%207%20file%20associations

 
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> Edit with IDLE.

So you're saying that Python is working on one laptop, but not on another 
machine?

Okay. Great. What's your point? You have a messed up installation on your 
Windows 7 box, and a working installation on your laptop. What would you 
like us to do? Commiserate? Laugh? Look into a crystal ball and tell you 
what you did wrong?

Can you run Python from the command line? If so, that tells you that 
Python is installed and working correctly. If Python is installed, then 
it sounds like a matter of getting the file associates fixed in the 
registry. Good luck.


> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
> 
> Comments?

Why not good-bye Windows 7?

This being Windows, have you run a virus scan with up to date 
definitions? Then run a *second* scan, using a completely different 
scanner, because no scanner can catch all viruses? And then run a good 
anti-spyware program. All of which will be irrelevant 99 times out of 
100, but you could be the 1% ...



-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 15:22:03 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:22:03 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ja3qdg$n3m$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>
> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
> "python not functioning".
>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
> Win 7.
>
> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>
Not successfully. I tried it and pointed to idle.pyw. It gave a Invalid 
Win32 app.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 15:31:28 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:31:28 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me>  "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>
> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
> "python not functioning".
Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a 
simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. 
Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.

>
> It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
> Win 7.
I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then 
stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE 
sense.

Who really knows?

>
> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>
Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get 
there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 15:43:05 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:43:05 +1100
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHv_KcwqeuiMHjWHd=Q+-FDMC4W4qpZPeyywd2YicW-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:31 AM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> I installed it [Windows 7] about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then stopped
> using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense.
>

Microsoft have broken things in many Windowses, and it's often hard to
figure out whether the fault is with the Windows version or with the
application. MS several times went to ridiculous effort to try to
ensure that broken programs that ran under version X would still run
under version Y, to the extent of being bug-for-bug compatible.

If you're having issues, grab a spare computer, throw Linux on it (I
recommend Ubuntu or Debian, others will have other preferred distros),
and see if the issues remain. Or if you're having trouble with the
GUI, try things from the command line (Windows's command interpreter
is pretty weak compared to bash, but it's plenty powerful enough).

ChrisA


From tycho at tycho.ws  Thu Nov 17 15:45:56 2011
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:45:56 -0600
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
In-Reply-To: <roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20111117204556.GD16669@velveeta.cs.wisc.edu>

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 09:36:40AM -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <95bcp8-bft.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
>  Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain 
> > performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found 
> > that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are 
> > much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU 
> > load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc.
> > 
> > What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools 
> > available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, 
> > but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret 
> > programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions?
> 
> It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately 
> measure, things like CPU or network load.  There's so much stuff you 
> can't even begin to see.  The state of your main memory cache.  Disk 
> fragmentation.  What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs 
> having to do a physical disk read.  How slow your DNS server is today.

While I agree there's a lot of things you can't control for, you can
get a more accurate picture by using CPU time instead of wall time
(e.g. the clock() system call). If what you care about is mostly CPU
time, you can control for the "your disk is fragmented", "your DNS
server died", or "my cow-orker was banging on the test machine" this
way.

\t


From spartan.the at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 15:46:38 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 10:31?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:> In<ja3eae$r... at dont-email.me> ?"W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com> ?writes:
>
> >> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> >> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> >> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> >> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> >> results.
>
> > I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
> > "python not functioning".
>
> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>
> >> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> >> Edit with IDLE.
>
> >> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.
>
>
>
> > It was working originally, right? ?So the problem can't really just be
> > Win 7.
>
> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
> sense.
>
> Who really knows?
>
>
>
> > Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>
> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."

idle.pyw is not executable in Windows, but you can right-click it,
open, browse to pythonw.exe. Then it should work.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Nov 17 15:59:33 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:59:33 +0000
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC575B5.2070504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 17/11/2011 20:31, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>
>> writes:
>>
>>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>>> results.
>>
>> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
>> "python not functioning".
> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>>
>>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
>>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.
>
>>
>> It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be
>> Win 7.
> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
> sense.
>
> Who really knows?
>
>>
>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>
> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."

Are you trying to associate .pyw with idle.pyw instead of with
pythonw.exe?


From spartan.the at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 16:28:56 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
	<kkuep8-nqd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-56C820.09031517112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fa20036c-aeda-4306-90cb-d30283f10fb9@k10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 4:03?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <kkuep8-nqd.... at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
> ?Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckha... at dominolaser.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since
> > there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they
> > require a human to interpret them.
>
> As much as possible, you want to automate things so no human
> intervention is required.
>
> For example, let's say you have a test which calls foo() and times how
> long it takes. ?You've already mentioned that you run it N times and
> compute some basic (min, max, avg, sd) stats. ?So far, so good.
>
> The next step is to do some kind of regression against past results.
> Once you've got a bunch of historical data, it should be possible to
> look at today's numbers and detect any significant change in performance.
>
> Much as I loathe the bureaucracy and religious fervor which has grown up
> around Six Sigma, it does have some good tools. ?You might want to look
> into control charts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_chart). ?You
> think you've got the test environment under control, do you? ?Try
> plotting a month's worth of run times for a particular test on a control
> chart and see what it shows.
>
> Assuming your process really is under control, I would write scripts
> that did the following kinds of analysis:
>
> 1) For a given test, do a linear regression of run time vs date. ?If the
> line has any significant positive slope, you want to investigate why.
>
> 2) You already mentioned, "I would even wonder if you can't verify the
> behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow". ?Of course you
> can. ?Run your test a bunch of times with different input sizes. ?I
> would try something like a 1-2-5 progression over several decades (i.e.
> input sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, etc) ?You will have to
> figure out what an appropriate range is, and how to generate useful
> input sets. ?Now, curve fit your performance numbers to various shape
> curves and see what correlation coefficient you get.
>
> All that being said, in my experience, nothing beats plotting your data
> and looking at it.

I strongly agree with Roy, here.

Ulrich, I recommend you to explore how google measures appengine's
health here: http://code.google.com/status/appengine.

Unit tests are inappropriate here; any single unit test can answer
PASS or FAIL, YES or NO. It can't answer the question "how much".
Unless you just want to use unit tests. Then any arguments here just
don't make sense.

I suggest:

1. Decide what you want to measure. Measure result must be a number in
range (0..100, -5..5), so you can plot them.
2. Write no-UI programs to get each number (measure) and write it to
CSV. Run each of them several times take away 1 worst and 1 best
result, and take and average number.
3. Collect the data for some period of time.
4. Plot those average number over time axis (it's easy with CSV
format).
5. Make sure you automate this process (batch files or so) so the plot
is generated automatically each hour or each day.

And then after a month you can decide if you want to divide your
number ranges into green-yellow-red zones. More often than not you may
find that your measures are so inaccurate and random that you can't
trust them. Then you'll either forget that or dive into math
(statistics). You have about 5% chances to succeed ;)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 17 17:12:44 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:12:44 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja40t3$9o6$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/17/2011 11:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
> results.
>
> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
> Edit with IDLE.
>
> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.

I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine. 
However, I almost never use that with Explorer to open files. I have 
IDLE pinned to the task bar so it is one click to start. If I edit a 
file, I want to run it, so I want a shell window open anyway. I usually 
open files to edit with the first three entries under the File menu: New 
File, Open, or Recent Files. Once I open a file in a particular 
directory (usually with Recent Files), Open initially looks for files in 
the same directory, which is usually what I want. So say hello again to 
Python, especially Python 3.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From irmen at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net  Thu Nov 17 17:31:50 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:31:50 +0100
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
In-Reply-To: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ec58b51$0$6842$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote:
> I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
> office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
> workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
> space, etc).
>
> So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
> downloads a Python file and runs it.
>
> With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
> update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
> when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
> hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
> computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
> It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
> the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
> function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
> like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
> report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.
>
> With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
> functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
> server, and clients download it and run it.
>
> Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
> recommended? Thank you.


The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about 
transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this 
if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff, 
things are not so grim.

Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame:

http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/
http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html

Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of 
transferring code to the 'other side'.

Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on 
your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered 
methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute 
code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have 
each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff 
itself. Many ways to skin a cat.

Regards,
Irmen de Jong



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 18:54:39 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:54:39 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja46s5$9qh$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 12:46 PM, spartan.the wrote:
> On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:>  In<ja3eae$r... at dont-email.me>    "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>    writes:
>>
>>>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>>>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>>>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>>>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>>>> results.
>>
>>> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
>>> "python not functioning".
>>
>> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>>
>>>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>>>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
>>>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>>
>> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
>> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
>> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine.
>>
>>
>>
>>> It was working originally, right?  So the problem can't really just be
>>> Win 7.
>>
>> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
>> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
>> sense.
>>
>> Who really knows?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>
>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>
> idle.pyw is not executable in Windows, but you can right-click it,
> open, browse to pythonw.exe. Then it should work.

right-click on junk.py gives me a menu. I select Open with, and ... 
hmmm, whoops, in the latest install, 2.7.2, I did not give it access to 
idle.pyw.

My mistake above. I was talking about the previous 2.5.2 of install in 
Win7. Where I'm at is 2.7.2 now. However, I still find in very odd there 
is no Edit with IDLE when I right-click on junk.py. That's the way it 
worked on 2.5.2 on my XP and earlier, 2010, on Win7. Downright frustrating.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 19:00:31 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:00:31 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2811.1321563560.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2811.1321563560.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja4776$bt2$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 12:59 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 17/11/2011 20:31, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>>> In<ja3eae$rr$1 at dont-email.me> "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>>>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>>>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>>>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>>>> results.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as
>>> "python not functioning".
>> Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line.
>>>
>>>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>>>> Edit with IDLE.
>>>
>>>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>> This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a
>> simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE.
>> Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just
>> fine.
>>
>>>
>>> It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be
>>> Win 7.
>> I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then
>> stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE
>> sense.
>>
>> Who really knows?
>>
>>>
>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>
>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>
> Are you trying to associate .pyw with idle.pyw instead of with
> pythonw.exe?
What does pythonw.exe do for me? I would think all associations would be 
correct after an install.

The single thing I do not understand is why in my latest install of 
2.5.2 and 2.7.2 (2.5.2 was uninstalled before going to 2.7.2) on Win7 
that why a right-click on a py file does not show as a choice is "Edit 
with IDLE", as it does on my XP PC and my 2010 install of 2.5.2 on this 
Win 7 PC. To me that signals that something is wrong.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 19:03:14 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 2:12 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 11:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>
> I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine.
> However, I almost never use that with Explorer to open files. I have
> IDLE pinned to the task bar so it is one click to start. If I edit a
> file, I want to run it, so I want a shell window open anyway. I usually
> open files to edit with the first three entries under the File menu: New
> File, Open, or Recent Files. Once I open a file in a particular
> directory (usually with Recent Files), Open initially looks for files in
> the same directory, which is usually what I want. So say hello again to
> Python, especially Python 3.
>
I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the 
right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails 
with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 17 19:24:47 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 00:24:47 GMT
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.

If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw, 
does it work?

Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see 
what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.




-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 20:36:38 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:36:38 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
Message-ID: <roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>

In article <874ny2fzn6.fsf at no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>,
 Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> 
> 
> > But, you're talking about installers.  I'm talking about if I've already 
> > got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to 
> > pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one?
> >
> > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> > if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> > load first.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about
> with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to
> work... is there a situation in which it doesn't?

What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you 
don't have access to?

It just seems mind-boggling to me that PYTHONPATH doesn't preempt 
everything else.


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 20:38:30 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:38:30 -0500
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<Xns9FA0995C66F1Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <roy-76B17E.20383017112011@news.panix.com>

In article <Xns9FA0995C66F1Fduncanbooth at 127.0.0.1>,
 Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> 
> > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib 
> > if I want to.  But what about on a shared machine?  I don't want to (or 
> > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff 
> > load first.
> > 
> 
> Have you considered running your code in a virtualenv?
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv

I do that for some projects.  In fact, I suspect I will do that for all 
furture projects that I start from scratch.  For this particular one, 
there's a lot of stuff already installed in the system that I need.


From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 20:55:56 2011
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:55:56 +0000
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja46s5$9qh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<6b26958f-291e-4c0f-8dce-36343781a63e@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<ja46s5$9qh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja4dvf$lar$1@dont-email.me>

On 17/11/2011 23:54, W. eWatson wrote:
<cut>
> My mistake above. I was talking about the previous 2.5.2 of install in
> Win7. Where I'm at is 2.7.2 now. However, I still find in very odd there
> is no Edit with IDLE when I right-click on junk.py. That's the way it
> worked on 2.5.2 on my XP and earlier, 2010, on Win7. Downright frustrating.
>

Well if I was still a windows administrator and you would be one of my 
users, I would first make sure that your profile or windows installation 
is not pooped as it definitively smells like that.

After being reassured that this is not the case I would then search the 
interwebs for something like "extending right click context menu".

Probably hitting something like this:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-desktop/how-can-i-customize-right-click-mouse-context-menu/5ea7104f-2213-41b9-9933-83f25da086d1

And after that searching where this 'idle' you speak of is actually 
located, probably finding something like this:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/118260/how-to-start-idle-python-editor-without-using-the-shortcut-on-windows-vista

Then it rest me to combine them both, after promising myself not to 
install one version of a particular program 'for all users' and then 
'updating' for 'only me' as this can screw up the default settings quite 
badly.

But hey I haven't been a win admin since I switched over to FreeBSD 
years and years ago. I find it immensely reassuring that the problems I 
encounter on my systems are all my fault, well actually that is just the 
same as with windows, just less obvious there.

Luckily I am no longer an administrator either as I couldn't stand it 
anymore when users spill their frustrations, although perfectly 
understandable, unto those who are actually willing to help.

Something to do with attitude or so, speaking if which, I do apologize 
for my own attitude, but given the choice of just ignoring you or lacing 
my post with patronization I though that the latter one was the least 
bad of them two.

-- 
mph


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 17 21:00:00 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:00:00 -0500
Subject: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
References: <95bcp8-bft.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-DBE11D.09364016112011@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.2810.1321562763.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-5F44F7.21000017112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2810.1321562763.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Tycho Andersen <tycho at tycho.ws> wrote:

> While I agree there's a lot of things you can't control for, you can
> get a more accurate picture by using CPU time instead of wall time
> (e.g. the clock() system call). If what you care about is mostly CPU
> time [...]

That's a big if.  In some cases, CPU time is important, but more often, 
wall-clock time is more critical.  Let's say I've got two versions of a 
program.  Here's some results for my test run:

Version     CPU Time     Wall-Clock Time
   1         2 hours       2.5 hours
   2         1.5 hours     5.0 hours

Between versions, I reduced the CPU time to complete the given task, but 
increased the wall clock time.  Perhaps I doubled the size of some hash 
table.  Now I get a lot fewer hash collisions (so I spend less CPU time 
re-hashing), but my memory usage went up so I'm paging a lot and my 
locality of reference went down so my main memory cache hit rate is 
worse.

Which is better?  I think most people would say version 1 is better.

CPU time is only important in a situation where the system is CPU bound.  
In many real-life cases, that's not at all true.  Things can be memory 
bound.  Or I/O bound (which, when you consider paging, is often the same 
thing as memory bound).  Or lock-contention bound.

Before you starting measuring things, it's usually a good idea to know 
what you want to measure, and why :-)


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Thu Nov 17 21:18:11 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
Message-ID: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>

Hi folks,

I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process.  From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways.  Other times, I'll just want to let it run.  So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:

def _pass(*args):
    pass

def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
    result1 = do_stuff()
    report(result1)
    result2 = do_some_different_stuff()
    report(result2)
    result3 = do_even_more_stuff()
    report(result3)
    return result3

This does what I want.  When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs.  Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI.

But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass.

This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass?  I played with the interpreter a bit.

IDLE 2.6.6      ==== No Subprocess ====
>>> pass
>>> pass()
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> type(pass)
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object.  Is it nothing more than a key word?

And would there be any merit to having some syntactic sugar which allows pass to behave like the _pass() function I wrote, if it were called?

As you can see, I'm programming in Python 2.6.  I don't know whether pass is handled differently in Python 3.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:31:04 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:31:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
References: <roy-DD1C5B.21305716112011@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.2790.1321501935.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ed48a730-2d39-4e71-a175-deda7578f8a8@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 1:24?pm, Ethan Furman <et... at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> If you do need to sometimes call it from a method then still leave off
> the '@staticmethod', and give 'self' a default of 'None':
>
> ? ? ?def _get_next_id(self=None):
> ? ? ? ?[blah, blah, blah]
> ? ? ? ?return id
>
> ? ? ?user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id)

And if the OP needs it to be a staticmethod as well, he can just wrap
the nested function:

      gen_next_id = staticmethod(_gen_next_id)

I think I like this approach best. I'm annoyed that I forgot functions
declared in a class scope were callable within the definition :)



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:38:47 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:38:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
References: <4ebe5ee6$0$25872$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2669.1321100968.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec52cd3$0$16583$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1772de52-5ce0-4cb0-ac3c-e43aa2d17cf6@a5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 1:48?am, candide <cand... at free.invalid> wrote:
> # a.py
> import math as _math
>
> # b.py
> from a import *
>
> print _math.sin(0) ? ? ? # raise a NameError
> print math.sin(0) ? ? ? ?# raise a NameError
>
> so the as syntax is also seful for hiding name, isn'it ?

Not exactly. It's the * import mechanism here that's ignoring any
bindings that begin with an underscore. If you had:

   _dummy = 1

...inside of a.py, it wouldn't be pulled in either. As you state
later, 'as' is purely a binding convenience.

Incidentally, you can still allow * import to bring in underscore-
prefixed bindings by adding them to an __all__:

    __all__ = ['_dummy']


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Nov 17 21:45:58 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:45:58 -0800
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRREhvpgv18QqxFjeE438LyLhO6cdzipFL+aVdVGLiKy8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:18 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process. ?From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways. ?Other times, I'll just want to let it run. ?So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:
>
> def _pass(*args):
> ? ?pass
>
> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
> ? ?result1 = do_stuff()
> ? ?report(result1)
> ? ?result2 = do_some_different_stuff()
> ? ?report(result2)
> ? ?result3 = do_even_more_stuff()
> ? ?report(result3)
> ? ?return result3
>
> This does what I want. ?When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs. ?Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI.
>
> But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass.

Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
all you ever call report() with in your example.

> This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass? ?I played with the interpreter a bit.
>
> IDLE 2.6.6 ? ? ?==== No Subprocess ====
>>>> pass
>>>> pass()
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>> type(pass)
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. ?Is it nothing more than a key word?

Correct:
http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#pass
http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords

Cheers,
Chris


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:58:46 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:58:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c13d5fb5-9a2d-420a-b5e6-6100dc8b0fbb@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 11:36?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you
> don't have access to?

No import will happen until you import something. As long as you
change sys.path before you do, all subsequent imports will use that
path.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 21:59:13 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:59:13 +1100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqjs0ryLrAavfxs3B_BOZLcnT2uLkDHMTaDddebv-zCTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
> def _pass(*args):
> ? ?pass
>
> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
>

For some compactness at the expense of brevity, you could use a lambda:

def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = lambda msg: None):

Other than that, I think it's fine. (Actually, the lambda has a slight
advantage in self-documentation; in the main function's definition it
specifies that the 'report' argument is a function that takes one
argument, the message. (Or whatever that argument is. Name it
appropriately.)

If you call your dummy function something else, it may help
readability/self-documentation too. On the other hand, it may not.
YMMV.

ChrisA


From dbinks at codeaurora.org  Thu Nov 17 22:01:01 2011
From: dbinks at codeaurora.org (Dominic Binks)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:01:01 -0800
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRREhvpgv18QqxFjeE438LyLhO6cdzipFL+aVdVGLiKy8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<CAMZYqRREhvpgv18QqxFjeE438LyLhO6cdzipFL+aVdVGLiKy8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EC5CA6D.3060100@codeaurora.org>

On 11/17/2011 6:45 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:18 PM, John Ladasky<ladasky at my-deja.com>  wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process.  From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways.  Other times, I'll just want to let it run.  So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:
>>
>> def _pass(*args):
>>     pass
>>
>> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
>>     result1 = do_stuff()
>>     report(result1)
>>     result2 = do_some_different_stuff()
>>     report(result2)
>>     result3 = do_even_more_stuff()
>>     report(result3)
>>     return result3
>>
>> This does what I want.  When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs.  Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI.
>>
>> But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass.
>
> Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
> might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
> all you ever call report() with in your example.
>
>> This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass?  I played with the interpreter a bit.
>>
>> IDLE 2.6.6      ==== No Subprocess ====
>>>>> pass
>>>>> pass()
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>>> type(pass)
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object.  Is it nothing more than a key word?
>
It is a keyword that can appear in a position where a statement is 
required by the grammar but there is nothing to do.  For example if .. 
then .. else .. where nothing happens in the else condition is effectively:

   if <condition>:
  	<then-part>
   else:
	pass

Bourne shell has a similar construct with the colon statement :

Another python example is where you need to catch an exception (or all 
exceptions but don't actually care about what they are)

   try:
      <european swallows>
   except:
      pass

> Correct:
> http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#pass
> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords
>
> Cheers,
> Chris


-- 
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 22:04:18 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:04:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 2:55?am, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Comments?

Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I
find the latter integrates better with Windows.

Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows?


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Nov 17 22:45:35 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:45:35 +1100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
Message-ID: <87pqgq6qlc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> writes:

> So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. Is it
> nothing more than a key word?

Yes. Unlike some languages where the program is a collection of
expressions, a Python program is a series of statements which themselves
may or may not be expressions.

<URL:http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html>

-- 
 \      ?I tell you the truth: some standing here will not taste death |
  `\    before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.? ?Jesus, |
_o__)                             c. 30 CE, as quoted in Matthew 16:28 |
Ben Finney


From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 17 22:59:17 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:59:17 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC5D815.3090800@davea.name>

On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>
> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get 
> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."

You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is 
useless.  It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or 
.bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message)   So 
why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?



-- 

DaveA



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 23:21:18 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:21:18 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>
>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>
> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is
> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or
> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So
> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?
>
>
>
Because some  people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It 
leads to an error message.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 23:33:40 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:33:40 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>
> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
> does it work?
>
> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see
> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>
Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so long 
under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My Computer Tools?



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 17 23:34:31 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:34:31 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 7:04 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2:55 am, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Comments?
>
> Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I
> find the latter integrates better with Windows.
>
> Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows?
64-bit and plain old python msi installer.


From snorble at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 17 23:49:16 2011
From: snorble at hotmail.com (snorble)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:49:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
References: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4ec58b51$0$6842$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1ba9dc95-9347-4a5a-a705-774d31166a08@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 4:31?pm, Irmen de Jong <ir... at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net> wrote:
> On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
> > office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
> > workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
> > space, etc).
>
> > So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
> > downloads a Python file and runs it.
>
> > With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
> > update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
> > when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
> > hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
> > computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
> > It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
> > the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
> > function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
> > like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
> > report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.
>
> > With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
> > functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
> > server, and clients download it and run it.
>
> > Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
> > recommended? Thank you.
>
> The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about
> transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this
> if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff,
> things are not so grim.
>
> Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame:
>
> http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html
>
> Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of
> transferring code to the 'other side'.
>
> Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on
> your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered
> methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute
> code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have
> each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff
> itself. Many ways to skin a cat.
>
> Regards,
> Irmen de Jong

I'm thinking maybe the client service will have a small number of
generic features, such as reading WMI and SNMP values. That way the
server still dictates the work to be done (i.e. XMLRPC returns which
WMI/SNMP values to query), and the client remains relatively focused
and straightforward.


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 23:53:07 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:53:07 +1100
Subject: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
In-Reply-To: <1ba9dc95-9347-4a5a-a705-774d31166a08@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <557bfa42-0ba1-45b6-9eee-5bf23a278baf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4ec58b51$0$6842$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<1ba9dc95-9347-4a5a-a705-774d31166a08@o17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGevrU4AdcO0TKufwh9zVWU3E3oCJb0NvNoqcmduoFSp_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe take a look outside python:

- Puppet

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:49 PM, snorble <snorble at hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 4:31?pm, Irmen de Jong <ir... at -NOSPAM-razorvine.net> wrote:
>> On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our
>> > office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each
>> > workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free
>> > space, etc).
>>
>> > So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just
>> > downloads a Python file and runs it.
>>
>> > With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to
>> > update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that
>> > when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was
>> > hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's
>> > computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info.
>> > It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into
>> > the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC
>> > function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more
>> > like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and
>> > report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction.
>>
>> > With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new
>> > functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the
>> > server, and clients download it and run it.
>>
>> > Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be
>> > recommended? Thank you.
>>
>> The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about
>> transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this
>> if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff,
>> things are not so grim.
>>
>> Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame:
>>
>> http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html
>>
>> Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of
>> transferring code to the 'other side'.
>>
>> Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on
>> your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered
>> methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute
>> code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have
>> each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff
>> itself. Many ways to skin a cat.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Irmen de Jong
>
> I'm thinking maybe the client service will have a small number of
> generic features, such as reading WMI and SNMP values. That way the
> server still dictates the work to be done (i.e. XMLRPC returns which
> WMI/SNMP values to query), and the client remains relatively focused
> and straightforward.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:03:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <19287522.9.1321592603810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfb5>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:45:58 PM UTC-8, Chris Rebert wrote:

> Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
> might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
> all you ever call report() with in your example.

Oops, I over-simplified the calls to my report() function.  The truth is that report() can accept a variable argument list too.


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:03:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2813.1321584361.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <19287522.9.1321592603810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfb5>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:45:58 PM UTC-8, Chris Rebert wrote:

> Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I
> might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's
> all you ever call report() with in your example.

Oops, I over-simplified the calls to my report() function.  The truth is that report() can accept a variable argument list too.


From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:07:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:34:22 PM UTC-8, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky
> <lad... at my-deja.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> > def _pass(*args):
> >     pass
> >
> 	This is the equivalent of
> 
> def _pass(*args):
> 	return None
> 
> (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None)

OK, that works for me, and now I understand.

One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?



From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Nov 18 00:07:23 2011
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:34:22 PM UTC-8, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky
> <lad... at my-deja.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> > def _pass(*args):
> >     pass
> >
> 	This is the equivalent of
> 
> def _pass(*args):
> 	return None
> 
> (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None)

OK, that works for me, and now I understand.

One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Nov 18 00:25:29 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:25:29 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXief_vQ7Jp46eiKnwRPtAZ0YwNTZzzpJJxrrJk2D48FuQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>>
>>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>>
>> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is
>> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or
>> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So
>> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?
>>
>>
>>
> Because some ?people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It leads to an error message.


Checking my Python install, there should be an idle.bat file in there
too. Have you tried that?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 00:34:10 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:34:10 +1100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr6YQ-vDrqfp6xpwdENVFL5Mhkb=AKLZOSau3RJDX5kJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:07 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?

No, there wouldn't. The Python 'pass' statement is a special statement
that indicates a lack of anything to execute; a dummy function call
isn't this. What I would kinda like to see, though, is function
versions of many things. Your basic operators exist in the 'operator'
module, but the syntax is rather clunky; for comparison, Pike has
beautifully simple (if a little cryptic) syntax: back-tick followed by
the operator itself, very similar to the way C++ does operator
overloading.

In Python 2, back-tick has a special meaning. In Python 3, that
meaning is removed. Is the character now available for this
"function-version" syntax?

ChrisA


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Nov 18 00:49:47 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:49:47 -0800
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr6YQ-vDrqfp6xpwdENVFL5Mhkb=AKLZOSau3RJDX5kJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
	<CAPTjJmr6YQ-vDrqfp6xpwdENVFL5Mhkb=AKLZOSau3RJDX5kJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTyNQZ3QSjYgv8vgvMwQCv5eMbmfhOYJE4TZNypih5g5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:07 PM, John Ladasky <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote:
>> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?
>
> No, there wouldn't. The Python 'pass' statement is a special statement
> that indicates a lack of anything to execute; a dummy function call
> isn't this. What I would kinda like to see, though, is function
> versions of many things. Your basic operators exist in the 'operator'
> module, but the syntax is rather clunky; for comparison, Pike has
> beautifully simple (if a little cryptic) syntax: back-tick followed by
> the operator itself, very similar to the way C++ does operator
> overloading.
>
> In Python 2, back-tick has a special meaning. In Python 3, that
> meaning is removed. Is the character now available for this
> "function-version" syntax?

Negative. I know this from personal experience.

Things that will Not Change in Python 3000
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3099/ ):
"No more backticks."

Cheers,
Chris R.


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Fri Nov 18 00:54:15 2011
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 05:54:15 +0000
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87wraydlh4.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> In article <874ny2fzn6.fsf at no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>,
>  Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> 
>> Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about
>> with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to
>> work... is there a situation in which it doesn't?
>
> What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you 
> don't have access to?

If you change sys.path first - before you do any imports - then any
other imports will surely come from the first thing on sys.path (unless
something else you import also changes sys.path)?





From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 01:04:12 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:04:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2814.1321585155.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eebbe22c-a9a2-4a1f-b7cf-7a9f6475848a@y14g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 12:59?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you call your dummy function something else, it may help
> readability/self-documentation too.

Or replace the pass with a docstring for the same effect:

  def silent(*args):
    """Null Object to repress reporting"""



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 01:06:51 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <feae7780-d813-4b5d-9264-763d94231795@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 2:21?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Because some ?people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It
> leads to an error message.

No, people are saying "manually add IDLE _the correct way that Windows
can recognise_", not recommending you stuff random .pyw files into the
context menu and hope they work.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 18 01:07:21 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 06:07:21 GMT
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<3758934.65.1321592843731.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prms22>
Message-ID: <4ec5f619$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800, John Ladasky wrote:

> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python
> "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?

No.

The pass statement compiles to nothing at all. Your _pass() function 
compiles to a function object, which needs to be looked up at run time, 
then called, all of which takes time and memory.

To satisfy the compiler, but do nothing, the pass statement should stay a 
statement. When you need a "do nothing" function, either define one (two 
lines) in your application, or use a lambda in place (lambda *args: 
None). Either way, it is too trivial to be a built-in.

By the way, to answer your earlier question "what is pass?", you could do 
this in the interactive interpreter:

help("pass")




-- 
Steven


From namenobodywants at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 02:27:47 2011
From: namenobodywants at gmail.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:27:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: useless python - term rewriter
Message-ID: <429ffce6-8912-4851-bb4f-bb894241038f@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>


## term rewriter (python 3.1.1)

def gettokens(string):
    spaced = string.replace('(',' ( ').replace(')',' ) ')
    return spaced.split()

def getterm(tokens):
    if tokens[0] in '()':
        term = []
        assert tokens[0] == '('
        tokens.pop(0)
        while not tokens[0] == ')': term.append(getterm(tokens))
        tokens.pop(0)
        return term
    return tokens.pop(0)

def parse(strg):
    tokens = gettokens(strg)
    term = getterm(tokens)
    assert not tokens
    return term

def unparse(term):
    if type(term) == str: return term
    subterms = [unparse(subterm) for subterm in term]
    return '({})'.format(' '.join(subterms))

def atom(term):
    return type(term) == str

def compound(term):
    return type(term) == list

def variable(term):
    return atom(term) and term[0].isupper()

def constant(term):
    return atom(term) and not term[0].isupper()

def conformable(term1,term2):
    return compound(term1) and compound(term2) and len(term1) ==
len(term2)

def getrule(string):
    left, right = string.split('=')
    return [parse(left), parse(right)]

def getrules(string):
    nonblank = lambda substring: substring and not substring.isspace()
    return [getrule(substring) for substring in string.splitlines() if
nonblank(substring)]

def substitute(bindings,term):
    if constant(term): return term
    if variable(term): return bindings.get(term,term)
    return [substitute(bindings,subterm) for subterm in term]

def match(term,pattern):
    from operator import concat
    from functools import reduce
    if variable(pattern): return [[pattern, term]]
    if constant(pattern) and pattern == term: return []
    if conformable(pattern,term):
        matches = [match(subterm,subpattern) for subterm, subpattern
in zip(term,pattern)]
        return reduce(concat,matches)
    raise Exception

def rewrite(term,rule):
    if type(rule) == dict:
        function = rule[term[0]]
        arguments = [int(subterm) for subterm in term[1:]]
        return str(function(*arguments))
    left, right = rule
    bindings = dict(match(term,left))
    return substitute(bindings,right)

def apply(rule,term):
    try: return [rewrite(term,rule), True]
    except:
        if atom(term): return [term, False]
        applications = [apply(rule,subterm) for subterm in term]
        subterms = [subterm for subterm, change in applications]
        changes  = [change  for subterm, change in applications]
        return [subterms, any(changes)]

def normalize(term,rules):
    while True:
        changes = []
        for rule in rules:
            term, change = apply(rule,term)
            changes.append(change)
        if not any(changes): break
    return term

def translate(rules):
    string = input('>>> ')
    if string and not string.isspace():
        try:
            term = parse(string)
            normal = normalize(term,rules)
            string = unparse(normal)
            print(string)
        except: print('parse error')

def interpret(equations):
    import operator
    rules = [vars(operator)] + getrules(equations)
    while True:
        try: translate(rules)
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            print('end session')
            break

example = """

(factorial 0) = 1
(factorial N) = (mul N (factorial (sub N 1)))

(fibonacci 0) = 0
(fibonacci 1) = 1
(fibonacci N) = (add (fibonacci (sub N 1)) (fibonacci (sub N 2)))

"""

interpret(example)



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 18 02:35:51 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:35:51 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja51su$7ee$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/17/2011 7:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote:

> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE.

Use the start menu to start IDLE once. Then pin it to your taskbar.
If you do not have STart/ all programs / Python / IDLE, then your 
installation is bad.

As for the right click problem, you probably have something screwy in 
the registry. The python installer (or uninstaller) will not fix it (my 
experience on my old xp machine). You will have to do so manually.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 02:38:06 2011
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:38:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python chat
Message-ID: <1321601886.45737.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I've started a new site called StudyBrunch, where we offer a chance for online studygroups with video conferencing, screen sharing etc. ? I'd like to keep the groups small to be maneageble. ? I will offer a basic session on python for people who are interested, on Saturday or Sunday evening. ? If you are interested, you can look at:
http://www.studybrunch.com/studysession/intro-to-python/

For this month, general membership is free and I hope to move on to more advanced topics later. ? If you have questions, or suggestion for topics (for example, classes, wxpython, urllib2, etc.), then contact us through?http://www.studybrunch.com/contact/ so we don't spam the list.

I have listed some preliminary times on the site in EST, but let me know on the site if you can't make those and I can try to schedule another session later in the week. ??

Best,
William
-------------- next part --------------
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From peksikytola at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 02:51:12 2011
From: peksikytola at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?UGVra2EgS3l09mzk?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:51:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
Message-ID: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an
argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is
that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function
pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process. I'd
like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin dll and
expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load the dll
in python it will be different instance and the SDK function pointers
are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter but in
vain.

Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need
to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't
have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov 18 03:27:39 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:27:39 +0100
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
In-Reply-To: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 18.11.2011 08:51, schrieb Pekka Kyt?l?:
> Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an
> argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is
> that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function
> pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process.

DLL handles are valid anywhere in a process, but...

> I'd like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin
> dll and expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load
> the dll in python it will be different instance and the SDK function
> pointers are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter
> but in vain.

...ShellExecuteEx will create a new process, where the DLL handle is not 
valid. A new process has a separate memory space, so the function 
pointers are different etc. This is so by design, it shouldn't matter to 
one process when a DLL it uses is loaded into another process, too.


> Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need
> to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't
> have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment.

If all you want is to run Python code inside your application, you can 
link in a Python interpreter and run it from there. This is called 
embedding Python (docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html), as opposed 
to writing Python modules, don't confuse those two Python C APIs.

Another way to get both into the same process is to convert your host 
application into a Python module, which you then import into Python. 
This would use the other Python C API 
(docs.python.org/extending/extending.html).


It depends a bit on what you want to achieve, so you might want to 
elaborate on that. This is often better than asking for a way to achieve 
a solution that is impossible.


Good luck!

Uli


From peksikytola at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 04:31:42 2011
From: peksikytola at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?UGVra2EgS3l09mzk?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <59ccd4dd-3e39-44f5-8234-4afc64c32701@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 10:27?am, Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckha... at dominolaser.com>
wrote:
> Am 18.11.2011 08:51, schrieb Pekka Kyt?l?:
>
> > Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an
> > argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is
> > that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function
> > pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process.
>
> DLL handles are valid anywhere in a process, but...
>
> > I'd like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin
> > dll and expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load
> > the dll in python it will be different instance and the SDK function
> > pointers are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter
> > but in vain.
>
> ...ShellExecuteEx will create a new process, where the DLL handle is not
> valid. A new process has a separate memory space, so the function
> pointers are different etc. This is so by design, it shouldn't matter to
> one process when a DLL it uses is loaded into another process, too.
>
> > Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need
> > to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't
> > have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment.
>
> If all you want is to run Python code inside your application, you can
> link in a Python interpreter and run it from there. This is called
> embedding Python (docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html), as opposed
> to writing Python modules, don't confuse those two Python C APIs.
>
> Another way to get both into the same process is to convert your host
> application into a Python module, which you then import into Python.
> This would use the other Python C API
> (docs.python.org/extending/extending.html).
>
> It depends a bit on what you want to achieve, so you might want to
> elaborate on that. This is often better than asking for a way to achieve
> a solution that is impossible.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Uli

Thanks for reply, I'll try to elaborate a bit :)

I should have included this bit from:

http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html#loading-shared-libraries

"All these classes can be instantiated by calling them with at least
one argument, the pathname of the shared library. If you have an
existing handle to an already loaded shared library, it can be passed
as the handle named parameter, otherwise the underlying platforms
dlopen or LoadLibrary function is used to load the library into the
process, and to get a handle to it."

So, I've got this handle to my .dll and would want to get that passed
as an argument when firing up .py via ShellExecute and use one of the
dll load functions that take in handle. What I don't know if these
windows/python dll handles are interchangable at all. Think it would
be quite nice if they were. But if they aren't I need to forget about
it and just #include <Python.h>


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Fri Nov 18 04:57:42 2011
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:57:42 +0100
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<mailman.2818.1321590908.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja5a6s$7at$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 18.11.2011 05:34 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
 >> def _pass(*args):
 >>      pass
 >>
 >> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
 >>      result1 = do_stuff()
 >>      report(result1)
 >
 > So this is a call to a function that just returns a None, which is
 > dropped by the interpreter...

I'm not sure about this. I think, the call will be executed, but the 
callee will return immediately. It is different from call being dropped.

Another optimized alternative could be to do

def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report=None):
     result1 = do_stuff()
     if report: report(result1)

but I think that is too low benefit at the cost of too much readability.

Such a function call is

   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               3 POP_JUMP_IF_FALSE       16
               6 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               9 CALL_FUNCTION            0
              12 POP_TOP
              13 JUMP_FORWARD             0 (to 16)

   3     >>   16 ...

as opposed to just

   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               3 CALL_FUNCTION            0
               6 POP_TOP

with a call target of

   1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
               3 RETURN_VALUE

I don't think that a call is sooo expensive that it would make any 
noticeable difference.


Thomas

BTW: Sorry, Dennis, for the private mail - I am incapable to use 
Thunderbird correctly :-(


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 05:23:29 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:23:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
Message-ID: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

Hi All, I'm trying to leverage my core i5 to send more UDP packets with multiprocssing, but I found a interesting thing is that the socket.bind is always reporting 10048 error even the process didn't do anything about the socket.
Here is the script

import threading,socket,random,pp,os
import time
from multiprocessing import Process
import multiprocessing.reduction

localIP='10.80.2.24'
localPort=2924
remoteIP='10.80.5.143'
remotePort=2924
sock=socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
#sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
sock.bind((localIP,localPort))
sock.connect((remoteIP,remotePort))

addRequest="MEGACO/1 ["+localIP+"]:"+str(localPort)+"\r\nTRANSACTION = 100 {\r\n" \
"\tCONTEXT = $ {\r\n" \
"\t\tADD = TDMs15c1f1/11{ \r\n" \
" Media { LocalControl { Mode=SendReceive,tdmc/ec=on  }} " \
"\t}\r\n}}\r\n"

def sendAddRequest(sock,addRequst):
	#for i in range(2500):
	#sock.send(addRequest)
	print "hello"

		
		
if __name__ == '__main__':
	reader = Process(target=sendAddRequest,args=(sock,addRequest))
	reader.start()


Here is the output

D:\Python test>mythread2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 346, in main
    prepare(preparation_data)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 461, in prepare
    '__parents_main__', file, path_name, etc
  File "D:\Python test\mythread2.py", line 12, in <module>
    sock.bind((localIP,localPort))
  File "C:\Python27\lib\socket.py", line 224, in meth
    return getattr(self._sock,name)(*args)
socket.error: [Errno 10048] Only one usage of each socket address (protocol/netw
ork address/port) is normally permitted


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov 18 05:52:54 2011
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:52:54 +0100
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
In-Reply-To: <c13d5fb5-9a2d-420a-b5e6-6100dc8b0fbb@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
	<c13d5fb5-9a2d-420a-b5e6-6100dc8b0fbb@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ec63907$0$6850$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 18/11/11 03:58:46, alex23 wrote:
> On Nov 18, 11:36 am, Roy Smith<r... at panix.com>  wrote:
>> What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you
>> don't have access to?

> No import will happen until you import something.

That would be the case if you use the '-S' command line option.

Otherwise, site.py is imported before you get a chance to alter
sys.path, and by default site.py imports other modules.

-- HansM



From michels at mps.mpg.de  Fri Nov 18 05:56:36 2011
From: michels at mps.mpg.de (Helmut Michels)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:56:36 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Data Plotting Library Dislin 10.2
Message-ID: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>

Dear Python programmers,

I am pleased to announce version 10.2 of the data plotting software
Dislin.

Dislin is a high-level and easy to use plotting library for
displaying data as curves, bar graphs, pie charts, 3D-colour plots,
surfaces, contours and maps. Several output formats are supported
such as X11, VGA, OpenGL, PostScript, PDF, CGM, WMF, HPGL, TIFF, GIF, 
PNG, BMP and SVG.

The software is available for the most C, Fortran 77 and Fortran 90/95
compilers. Plotting extensions for the interpreting languages Perl,
Python and Java are also supported.

Dislin is available from the site

      http://www.dislin.de

and via FTP from the server

      ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/grafik/dislin

All Dislin distributions are free for non-commercial use. Licenses
for commercial use are available from http://www.dislin.de.

  -------------------
   Helmut Michels
   Max Planck Institute for
   Solar System Research              Phone: +49 5556 979-334
   Max-Planck-Str. 2                  Fax  : +49 5556 979-240
   D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau          Mail : michels at mps.mpg.de


From peksikytola at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 06:49:14 2011
From: peksikytola at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?UGVra2EgS3l09mzk?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<59ccd4dd-3e39-44f5-8234-4afc64c32701@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6bc18373-3213-4153-ad87-ba998ca2e597@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hmm. Let me describe what is going a bit more carefully:

What I build is a dll file that has exported function that gets called
when the host application/dll loads my dll. In this function the
function pointers to the actual SDK functions are fetched. After this
my dll's registers some plugins that have callbacks. After that it's
all about reacting to an event/callback. What I'd like to do is that
after fetching those SDK function pointers I'd like to fire
up .py/.pyc that snoops for possible plugins written in python and
registers those plugins and callbacks and let them react to events.
Obviously this python code needs access to those SDK functions.
Essentially it would show for the host app as one .dll but registers
multiple plugins from different python files.

I don't mind if it's not ShellExecute route, but I'd prefer
approaching this so that I don't need to compile different dll's to
different versions of python but let the python code take care of that
stuff.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 08:03:28 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:03:28 +0000
Subject: What exactly is "pass"?  What should it be?
In-Reply-To: <ja4n8b$dor$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <27955957.352.1321582691251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37>
	<ja4n8b$dor$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4EC657A0.7000103@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 18/11/2011 04:34, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky
> <ladasky at my-deja.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process.  From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways.  Other times, I'll just want to let it run.  So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this:
>>
>> def _pass(*args):
>>      pass
>>
> 	This is the equivalent of
>
> def _pass(*args):
> 	return None
>
Wouldn't "pass_" be a more Pythonic name?

> (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None)
>
>> def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass):
>>      result1 = do_stuff()
>>      report(result1)
>
> 	So this is a call to a function that just returns a None, which is
> dropped by the interpreter...
>



From neilc at norwich.edu  Fri Nov 18 08:11:05 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 13:11:05 GMT
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>
>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>> does it work?
>>
>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see
>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>
> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
> Computer Tools?

Open Windows Explorer.
With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.

There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
buttons below far making changes to them.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov 18 09:14:56 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:14:56 +0100
Subject: Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
In-Reply-To: <6bc18373-3213-4153-ad87-ba998ca2e597@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <c0f9a734-0d80-48db-92ff-ae15bf3af9e0@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<rghhp8-1mt.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<59ccd4dd-3e39-44f5-8234-4afc64c32701@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6bc18373-3213-4153-ad87-ba998ca2e597@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0s5ip8-oq1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 18.11.2011 12:49, schrieb Pekka Kyt?l?:
> What I'd like to do is that after fetching those SDK function
> pointers I'd like to fire up .py/.pyc that snoops for possible
> plugins written in python and registers those plugins and callbacks
> and let them react to events. Obviously this python code needs access
> to those SDK functions. Essentially it would show for the host app as
> one .dll but registers multiple plugins from different python files.

Okay, so you want to export functions from your host application (it 
doesn't matter if that is inside a DLL or not) to a bunch of Python 
plugins. This is actually the embedding that I hinted at and documented, 
but here's some example code (stripped of any error handling and 
reference counting, so beware!):

// append line to debug log
static PyObject*
log_string(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
     char const* arg = 0;
     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &arg))
         return NULL;

     fprintf(debug_output, "%s", arg);
     Py_RETURN_NONE;
}

// exported API
static PyMethodDef host_api[] =
{
     {"log_string", log_string, METH_VARARGS,
         "log_string(string) -> None\n"
         "Write text to debug output."},
     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
};

Py_Initialize();
PyObject* host_api_module = Py_InitModule("host", host_api);
PyObject* test_module = PyImport_ImportModule("./test.py");
PyObject* main_function = PyObject_GetAttrString(test_module, "main");
PyObject* res = PyObject_CallObject(main_function, NULL);
Py_Finalize();


This has the disadvantage that it blocks, for multiple Python threads, 
you need to program a dispatcher. Also, you can only have a single 
interpreter loaded, so other parts of your program may not call 
Py_Initialize().

It does the job for my uses, so I hope it helps!

Uli


From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 09:51:12 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:51:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
Message-ID: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
all attributes that correspond to a primary key.

I can write a function like this to get the primary key:

def get_key(instance_of_record):
   return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)

However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
generator.

For example, if key_attrs=['A','B'], I want the generated function to
be equivalent to the following:

def get_key(instance_of_record):
   return (instance_of_record['A'],instance_of_record['B'] )

I realize I can use eval or exec to do this. But is there any other
way to do this?

Thanks,
gz






From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:20:20 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <15167697.1495.1321629620458.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

I did a test on linux, it works well, so the issue is related to os.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 10:29:56 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:29:56 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>>
>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>> does it work?
>>>
>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see
>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>
>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>> Computer Tools?
>
> Open Windows Explorer.
> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>
> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
> buttons below far making changes to them.
>
OK, I've found that. I see
Py
Pyc
Pyo
Pyw
If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each. 
If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are 
IDLE and Open.

What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?

If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various 
python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I 
have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I 
see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither. 
Why isn't IDLE listed there?

If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with".  Notepad and python.exe 
are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For 
example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question 
is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in 
...\Lib\idlelib?  My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid 
Win32 app", when I try to use it.




From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:33:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:33:11 +1100
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrwDYEzm61Q2T1ShWJe5op3Z8ZOKNaeGG49hqY6TRe3zA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Junfeng Hu <hujunfeng at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All, I'm trying to leverage my core i5 to send more UDP packets with multiprocssing, but I found a interesting thing is that the socket.bind is always reporting 10048 error even the process didn't do anything about the socket.
> sock.bind((localIP,localPort))
> socket.error: [Errno 10048] Only one usage of each socket address (protocol/netw
> ork address/port) is normally permitted

Try setting the socket to SO_REUSEADDR.

ChrisA


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:48:36 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:48:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks 
Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line 
sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
Here is the results.
D:\Python test>mythread2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
    self = load(from_parent)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
    return Unpickler(file).load()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
    dispatch[key](self)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
    value = func(*args)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
et
    _sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
    s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:48:36 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:48:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks 
Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line 
sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
Here is the results.
D:\Python test>mythread2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
    self = load(from_parent)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
    return Unpickler(file).load()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
    dispatch[key](self)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
    value = func(*args)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
et
    _sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
    s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:51:49 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

And actually ,the socket hadn't been used in this script.



From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 10:51:49 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

And actually ,the socket hadn't been used in this script.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 10:54:56 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:54:56 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja5v4k$thc$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 8:34 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
> 	Fine... so open a directory window, follow
>
> Tools/Folder Options/File Types
>
> Scroll down to PYW, click [Advanced]
>
> 	You should get an "Edit File Type" dialog. Mine shows just one
> action "open", yours probably has "open" and "edit". Select "edit" and
> then click [Edit] button. See what it says for the application to be
> used.
>
> 	Do the same on the Win7 machine -- it probably doesn't have "edit"
> as an action, so you'll be picking the [New] button. Define the new
> action to look like the action on the laptop (use the correct path to
> the python executable, and maybe to IDLE).
>
> 	Heck, check what those actions show for PY files too... The only
> difference between PY and PYW should be the application used in the
> "open" action.
> PY =>  .../python.exe
> PYW =>  .../pythonw.exe
>
> 	Also make sure that the "open" action is the defined default (select
> the action, and click the default button); when there are more than one
> action, the default will be in bold.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>>
>> Comments?
See my response to Neil Cerutii a few msgs above this one.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 10:57:02 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:57:02 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2817.1321590873.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja5v9j$vqj$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 8:34 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I
>> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py
>> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing
>> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same
>> results.
>>
>> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to
>> Edit with IDLE.
>>
> 	Fine... so open a directory window, follow
>
> Tools/Folder Options/File Types
>
> Scroll down to PYW, click [Advanced]
>
> 	You should get an "Edit File Type" dialog. Mine shows just one
> action "open", yours probably has "open" and "edit". Select "edit" and
> then click [Edit] button. See what it says for the application to be
> used.
>
> 	Do the same on the Win7 machine -- it probably doesn't have "edit"
> as an action, so you'll be picking the [New] button. Define the new
> action to look like the action on the laptop (use the correct path to
> the python executable, and maybe to IDLE).
>
> 	Heck, check what those actions show for PY files too... The only
> difference between PY and PYW should be the application used in the
> "open" action.
> PY =>  .../python.exe
> PYW =>  .../pythonw.exe
>
> 	Also make sure that the "open" action is the defined default (select
> the action, and click the default button); when there are more than one
> action, the default will be in bold.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python.
>>
>> Comments?
See my response to Neil Cerutti a few msgs above this one.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:04:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:04:11 +1100
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmohkK9QHzyvRjEsaEzbohW71OkvdWd3CHDN6CTvY6bSFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Junfeng Hu <hujunfeng at gmail.com> wrote:
> And actually ,the socket hadn't been used in this script.

Doesn't matter that you haven't used it; you're binding to the port,
that's what causes the 10048.

I think the main problem is that you're trying to share sockets across
processes, but I haven't used the Python multiprocessing module with
sockets before. I would recommend, if you can, creating separate
sockets in each subprocess; that might make things a bit easier.

ChrisA


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:11:40 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:11:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Hi Chris.
The socket only binded once. That's the problem I'm puzzleing, I think it may a bug of multiprocessing in windows, or something I missed.


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:11:40 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:11:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Hi Chris.
The socket only binded once. That's the problem I'm puzzleing, I think it may a bug of multiprocessing in windows, or something I missed.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:16:47 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:16:47 +1100
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<674531.1586.1321631509432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2832.1321632261.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<15809319.188.1321632700957.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq5qHzTm-2WJfwXnVrdEPYgyUOSgrJjjj_zOtecoc2huA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Junfeng Hu <hujunfeng at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Chris.
> The socket only binded once. That's the problem I'm puzzleing, I think it may a bug of multiprocessing in windows, or something I missed.

I don't know how multiprocessing goes about initializing those
subprocesses; I suspect that's where it creates the additional
sockets.

ChrisA


From ramapraba2653 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 11:20:05 2011
From: ramapraba2653 at gmail.com (SUPREME)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:20:05 -0800 (PST)
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 11:55:33 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:55:33 +0000
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <4EC68E05.6030209@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 18/11/2011 15:48, Junfeng Hu wrote:
> Thanks
> Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line
> sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> Here is the results.
> D:\Python test>mythread2.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<string>", line 1, in<module>
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
>      self = load(from_parent)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
>      return Unpickler(file).load()
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
>      dispatch[key](self)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
>      value = func(*args)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
> et
>      _sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
>      s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'

The documentation for socket.fromfd says:

     Availability: Unix.

You're using Microsoft Windows.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Nov 18 11:56:29 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:56:29 +0100
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
In-Reply-To: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4EC68E3D.4050402@sequans.com>

GZ wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
> all attributes that correspond to a primary key.
>
> I can write a function like this to get the primary key:
>
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>    return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)
>
> However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
> program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
> wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
> with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
> generator.
>
> For example, if key_attrs=['A','B'], I want the generated function to
> be equivalent to the following:
>
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>    return (instance_of_record['A'],instance_of_record['B'] )
>
> I realize I can use eval or exec to do this. But is there any other
> way to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> gz
>
>
>
>   
Hi,

you may want to do something like

class Record(object):
  PRIMARY_KEY = []
  def __init__(self):
    for key in self.PRIMARY_KEY:
      setattr(self, key, None)

  def getPrimaryKeyValues(self):
    return [ getattr(self, key) for key in self.PRIMARY_KEY]


class FruitRecord(Record):
  PRIMARY_KEY = ['fruit_id', 'fruit_name']



JM

PS : there's a high chance that a python module already exists to access 
your database with python objects.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 12:12:40 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:12:40 +0000
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC69208.6040104@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>>>
>>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>>> does it work?
>>>>
>>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
>>>> and see
>>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>>> Computer Tools?
>>
>> Open Windows Explorer.
>> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
>> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>>
>> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
>> buttons below far making changes to them.
>>
> OK, I've found that. I see
> Py
> Pyc
> Pyo
> Pyw
> If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
> If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
> IDLE and Open.
>
> What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>
> If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
> python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
> have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
> see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
> Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>
> If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
> are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
> example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
> is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
> ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
> Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>
You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
an executable (an .exe).

Have a look here:
http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-context-menu-action-for-jpg-and-other-image-fil

In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
same) it has the entry:

Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n 
-e "%1"

Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
.exe file.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 12:19:53 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:19:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <18f7cac6-1c38-4506-b8b9-f30d2b9ae5a9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 10:12?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> >> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> >>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
> >>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
> >>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
> >>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>
> >>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
> >>>> does it work?
>
> >>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
> >>>> and see
> >>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>
> >>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
> >>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
> >>> Computer Tools?
>
> >> Open Windows Explorer.
> >> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
> >> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>
> >> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
> >> buttons below far making changes to them.
>
> > OK, I've found that. I see
> > Py
> > Pyc
> > Pyo
> > Pyw
> > If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
> > If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
> > IDLE and Open.
>
> > What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>
> > If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
> > python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
> > have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
> > see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
> > Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>
> > If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
> > are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
> > example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
> > is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
> > ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
> > Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>
> You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
> an executable (an .exe).
>
> Have a look here:http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-c...
>
> In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
> same) it has the entry:
>
> Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
> Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n
> -e "%1"
>
> Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
> .exe file.

The tools -> folder options approach is the user-friendly approach --
when it works.
The 'Correct the registry' is the muscular approach -- it will set
right everything iff you are a wizard.

In between the two is assoc and ftype see
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/ftype.mspx?mfr=true
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/assoc.mspx?mfr=true


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:45:26 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:45:26 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja65js$auo$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 9:12 AM, MRAB wrote:
> On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>>> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>>>> does it work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
>>>>> and see
>>>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>>>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>>>> Computer Tools?
>>>
>>> Open Windows Explorer.
>>> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
>>> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>>>
>>> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
>>> buttons below far making changes to them.
>>>
>> OK, I've found that. I see
>> Py
>> Pyc
>> Pyo
>> Pyw
>> If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
>> If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
>> IDLE and Open.
>>
>> What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>>
>> If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
>> python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
>> have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
>> see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
>> Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>>
>> If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
>> are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
>> example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
>> is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
>> ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
>> Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>>
> You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
> an executable (an .exe).

Odd, but OK.

>
> Have a look here:
> http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-context-menu-action-for-jpg-and-other-image-fil
Are you suggesting that I use the "default" program mentioned there?
>
>
> In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
> same) it has the entry:
>
> Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
> Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n
> -e "%1"
>
> Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
> .exe file.
So pythonw.exe and idle.pyw are not scripts but somehow can fire up idle?

Are you suggesting I modify my registry?  I still find it bizarre the 
install did not put it IDLE choice on the menu for py. It's there on XP.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:48:54 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:48:54 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <18f7cac6-1c38-4506-b8b9-f30d2b9ae5a9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ec5a5cf$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja4n7b$3fd$1@dont-email.me> <9in3r9F5j3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<ja5tlr$kem$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2837.1321636336.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<18f7cac6-1c38-4506-b8b9-f30d2b9ae5a9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ja65qc$c2s$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 9:19 AM, rusi wrote:
> On Nov 18, 10:12 pm, MRAB<pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com>  wrote:
>> On 18/11/2011 15:29, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/18/2011 5:11 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>>>> On 2011-11-18, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the
>>>>>>> right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails
>>>>>>> with a "invalid Win32 app" msg.
>>
>>>>>> If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw,
>>>>>> does it work?
>>
>>>>>> Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right,
>>>>>> and see
>>>>>> what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine.
>>
>>>>> Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so
>>>>> long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My
>>>>> Computer Tools?
>>
>>>> Open Windows Explorer.
>>>> With the menu, to to Tools->Folder Options
>>>> Click the File Types tab in the Folder Options menu.
>>
>>>> There will be an upper view with registered filed types, and some
>>>> buttons below far making changes to them.
>>
>>> OK, I've found that. I see
>>> Py
>>> Pyc
>>> Pyo
>>> Pyw
>>> If I click on each, it basically it gives a short description of each.
>>> If I click advanced, there's more info. For example for py, Actions are
>>> IDLE and Open.
>>
>>> What does this tell me that's relevant to Win7?
>>
>>> If on Win7, I go to Default Programs I see under associations various
>>> python items. Py shows Unknown application. Since installing 2.7.2 I
>>> have not messed with these associations. If I right-click on Unknown, I
>>> see Notepad and python.exe for choices to open the file. I want neither.
>>> Why isn't IDLE listed there?
>>
>>> If I right-click on junk.py, I see "Open with". Notepad and python.exe
>>> are choices. However, that menu allows me to choose something else. For
>>> example, Adobe Reader, or Internet Explorer. I suppose the next question
>>> is should I use the browse there and try to connect to IDLE in
>>> ...\Lib\idlelib? My guess is that if I do, I will run into the "invalid
>>> Win32 app", when I try to use it.
>>
>> You can't associate .py with Idle because Idle is a Python script, not
>> an executable (an .exe).
>>
>> Have a look here:http://superuser.com/questions/68852/change-windows-7-explorer-edit-c...
>>
>> In my PC's registry (Windows XP, but Windows 7 should be similar or the
>> same) it has the entry:
>>
>> Key: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command
>> Value: "C:\Python31\pythonw.exe" "C:\Python31\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw" -n
>> -e "%1"
>>
>> Note how it actually associates the Edit action of Python files with an
>> .exe file.
>
> The tools ->  folder options approach is the user-friendly approach --
> when it works.
> The 'Correct the registry' is the muscular approach -- it will set
> right everything iff you are a wizard.
>
> In between the two is assoc and ftype see
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/ftype.mspx?mfr=true
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/assoc.mspx?mfr=true
These two seem equally muscular. I shudder to think where these choices 
might lead me.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Nov 18 12:52:49 2011
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 17:52:49 GMT
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9FA1B5E1D59FEduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

GZ <zyzhu2000 at gmail.com> wrote:

> For example, if key_attrs=['A','B'], I want the generated function to
> be equivalent to the following:
> 
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>    return (instance_of_record['A'],instance_of_record['B'] )
> 
> I realize I can use eval or exec to do this. But is there any other
> way to do this?
> 

Use operator.itemgetter:

>>> key_attrs = ['A', 'B']
>>> import operator
>>> get_key = operator.itemgetter(*key_attrs)
>>> d = {'A': 42, 'B': 63, 'C': 99}
>>> get_key(d)
(42, 63)

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:57:53 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:57:53 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2825.1321601777.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2812.1321567986.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja47c6$bt2$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2825.1321601777.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja66b7$fjn$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 11:35 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 7:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE.
>
> Use the start menu to start IDLE once. Then pin it to your taskbar.
> If you do not have STart/ all programs / Python / IDLE, then your
> installation is bad.
>
> As for the right click problem, you probably have something screwy in
> the registry. The python installer (or uninstaller) will not fix it (my
> experience on my old xp machine). You will have to do so manually.
>
IDLE is a choice on the Start menu (All Programs). Pressing it does 
nothing. I see nothing that suggests it's open.

The IDLE entry is pointing at c:\Python27\ (shortcut)

A post above yours suggests IDLE is a script, and somehow needs a 
"boost" to use it. An exe file, apparently.  Beats the heck out of me.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 12:59:00 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:59:00 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2822.1321594000.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2822.1321594000.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja66d8$fjn$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/17/2011 9:25 PM, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>> On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list?
>>>>>
>>>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get
>>>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app."
>>>
>>> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is
>>> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or
>>> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So
>>> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Because some  people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It leads to an error message.
>
>
> Checking my Python install, there should be an idle.bat file in there
> too. Have you tried that?
Yes. I tried running it. Got nowhere.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 13:04:19 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:04:19 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
In-Reply-To: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=nmNo95GGAARZV=v8qzTCHezAY7o=YVBvSsAmdoxss6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:51 AM, GZ <zyzhu2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
> all attributes that correspond to a primary key.
>
> I can write a function like this to get the primary key:
>
> def get_key(instance_of_record):
>   return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)
>
> However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
> program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
> wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
> with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
> generator.

(Accidentally sent this to the OP only)

This is exactly what the attrgetter factory function produces.

from operator import attrgetter
get_key = attrgetter(*key_attrs)

But if your attribute names are variable and arbitrary, I strongly
recommend you store them in a dict instead.  Setting them as instance
attributes risks that they might conflict with the regular attributes
and methods on your objects.

Cheers,
Ian


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 13:06:47 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
Message-ID: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>

Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 
flop the same way under Win 7.

One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 
2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you 
right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 13:10:32 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:10:32 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja672s$jag$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 10:06 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
> flop the same way under Win 7.
>
> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?

Try it on Win 7.


From mbadoiu at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 16:10:24 2011
From: mbadoiu at gmail.com (Mihai Badoiu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:10:24 -0500
Subject: Resources consumed by parent
Message-ID: <CAGGWHE5BV=t0tcNdOPFAZheOAVwokc5eOx835Zj390CRFV0LLw@mail.gmail.com>

How do I get the resources consumed by the parent process?

getrusage() in the resource module seems to work only for self or the
children processes.

thanks,

--mihai
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From me+list/python at ixokai.io  Fri Nov 18 17:31:54 2011
From: me+list/python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:31:54 -0800
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC6DCDA.8040802@ixokai.io>

On 11/17/11 8:34 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/17/2011 7:04 PM, alex23 wrote:
>> On Nov 18, 2:55 am, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>> Comments?
>>
>> Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I
>> find the latter integrates better with Windows.
>>
>> Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows?
> 64-bit and plain old python msi installer.

That'd be it, I expect.

Windows has two parallel registry trees; if you launch a 32-bit program,
it sees one.. if you launch a 64-bit program, it sees the other. What
looks like the exact same keys can be different as a result.

The MSI is probably writing the keys into the 32-bit registry, and
Explorer is now a 64-bit application.

You can add the associations for Edit manually. Though not to
"idle.pyw", which you keep -- repeatedly -- saying you try and errors.
Of course it errors. That's a python script, not an executable.

Associate to pythonw.exe, and pass it the path to idle.pyw, and then -n
-e "%1" -- which will be replaced with the actual filename. But you were
told that already and seem to have just dismissed it out of hand.

Like: PATH\pythonw.exe PATH\idle.pyw -n -e "%1"

... where PATH is whatever the location of those files are in your
environment.

Yes, its moderately annoying that you have to do this yourself; maybe
you wouldn't if you installed 64-bit python, but I can't be sure. Maybe
it has nothing to do with 32 or 64-bitness at all and my guess is wrong.
Maybe your profile has gone wonky. But it doesn't matter. You can add
the Edit association yourself. Its a one-time fix.

-- 

   Stephen Hansen
   ... Also: Ixokai
   ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
   ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/

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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 18 18:44:08 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Nov 2011 23:44:08 GMT
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
> flop the same way under Win 7.
> 
> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?

Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.

"I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."


If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit 
version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems 
stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.



-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 19:31:03 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 3:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>
> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>
> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."
>
>
> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>
>
>
Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.

Ah, I installed a 32-bit.  Missed his post. So what should I do? Try 
3.3.2 64-bit? I'm game. By the time you read this, I will either have 
done it or gotten into it.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Nov 18 19:50:24 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:50:24 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 4:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 3:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>>
>>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
>>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>>
>> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>>
>> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."
>>
>>
>> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
>> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
>> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>>
>>
>>
> Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.
>
> Ah, I installed a 32-bit. Missed his post. So what should I do? Try
> 3.3.2 64-bit? I'm game. By the time you read this, I will either have
> done it or gotten into it.

3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2 
release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google 
shows me nothing for 3.3.2.

I see:
     * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug 
information files (sig)
     * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio 
debug information files (sig)

Visual Studio????  I hope I don't need VS!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 18 20:22:04 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:22:04 +0000
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4EC704BC.6050703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 19/11/2011 00:50, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 4:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 11/18/2011 3:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>>>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>>>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
>>>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>>>
>>> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>>>
>>> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works
>>> fine."
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
>>> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry
>>> problems
>>> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.
>>
>> Ah, I installed a 32-bit. Missed his post. So what should I do? Try
>> 3.3.2 64-bit? I'm game. By the time you read this, I will either have
>> done it or gotten into it.
>
> 3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2
> release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google
> shows me nothing for 3.3.2.
>
> I see:
> * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug
> information files (sig)
> * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio debug
> information files (sig)
>
> Visual Studio???? I hope I don't need VS!

If you look more closely you'll see that there are 5 links on each line:

     Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
     [1]
     (sig)
     Visual Studio debug information files
     (sig)

Unless you intending to work on the sources, you need just the first
one:

     Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)

for a 64-bit build of Python 3.2.2.


From hujunfeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 21:45:42 2011
From: hujunfeng at gmail.com (Junfeng Hu)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:45:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why sock.bind is always report 10048 error when in a script with
	multiprocessing
References: <12715937.830.1321611809592.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<mailman.2829.1321630394.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<14330307.286.1321631316567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
	<mailman.2835.1321635315.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5e4635df-936f-4f5d-b3c9-ad4370a3be64@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 10:55?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 18/11/2011 15:48, Junfeng Hu wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thanks
> > Yes, I had tried this before, so you could find that I comment the line
> > sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> > Here is the results.
> > D:\Python test>mythread2.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? ?File "<string>", line 1, in<module>
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\forking.py", line 347, in main
> > ? ? ?self = load(from_parent)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1378, in load
> > ? ? ?return Unpickler(file).load()
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 858, in load
> > ? ? ?dispatch[key](self)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\pickle.py", line 1133, in load_reduce
> > ? ? ?value = func(*args)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 167, in rebuild_sock
> > et
> > ? ? ?_sock = fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
> > ? ?File "C:\Python27\lib\multiprocessing\reduction.py", line 156, in fromfd
> > ? ? ?s = socket.fromfd(fd, family, type_, proto)
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fromfd'
>
> The documentation for socket.fromfd says:
>
> ? ? ?Availability: Unix.
>
> You're using Microsoft Windows.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, but my question is , how to make such script work in windows.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Fri Nov 18 23:26:17 2011
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:26:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Data Plotting Library Dislin 10.2
References: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<P8KdnVF1zKmqVlvTnZ2dnUVZ8gGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <9599229d-28aa-4730-b29a-b7c32e1e3d2e@e15g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Nov, 22:16, Tony the Tiger <t... at tiger.invalid> wrote:

> Ya, but apparently no source unless you dig deep into your pockets.
> Really, why would we need this when we already have gnuplot?
> Just wondering...

Dislin is a very nice plotting library for scientific data,
particularly for scientists and engineers using Fortran (which,
incidentally, is quite a few).

For Python, we have Matplotlib as well (at least for 2D plots).


Sturla


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 18 23:36:08 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Nov 2011 04:36:08 GMT
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ec73237$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:

> Somehow 3.3.2 doesn't look like 2.7.2.

Oops, so you're right. Sorry for the noise.

-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 00:03:58 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:03:58 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>

...
>>
>> 3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2
>> release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google
>> shows me nothing for 3.3.2.
>>
>> I see:
>> * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>> information files (sig)
>> * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>> information files (sig)
>>
>> Visual Studio???? I hope I don't need VS!
>
> If you look more closely you'll see that there are 5 links on each line:
>
> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
> [1]
> (sig)
> Visual Studio debug information files
> (sig)
>
> Unless you intending to work on the sources, you need just the first
> one:
>
> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>
> for a 64-bit build of Python 3.2.2.

An oddity occurs here. Yes, x86-64 is the right installer, maybe. While 
noting your msg, my PC got very slow, and I ended up going to a related 
site for the downloads of 3.2.2 while trying for the one above. 
<http://www.python.org/download/>.

It shows:
Also look at the detailed Python 3.2.2 page:

     * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does 
not include source)
     * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 
64 / X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)

The first of the two choices does not say x-bit anything. The second 
looks off course for my HP 64-bit PC.

I'm going to just use Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2).

Wait a minute Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2). Windows X86-64 MSI 
Installer (3.2.2) shows it's associated with Visual Studio.  Why would I 
want that? Ah, I get it The single first line has Windows X86-64 MSI 
Installer (3.2.2) and Visual Studio.  That's a really weird way to 
arrange them. OK, now off to Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)

I'll be back shortly after I've made the install.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 00:28:39 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:28:39 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja7eqd$us9$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/18/2011 9:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> ...
>>>
>>> 3.3.2? I do not see that in his single message I found. I see a 3.2.2
>>> release on <http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.2/>. Google
>>> shows me nothing for 3.3.2.
>>>
>>> I see:
>>> * Windows x86 MSI Installer (3.2.2) (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>>> information files (sig)
>>> * Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2) [1] (sig) and Visual Studio debug
>>> information files (sig)
>>>
>>> Visual Studio???? I hope I don't need VS!
>>
>> If you look more closely you'll see that there are 5 links on each line:
>>
>> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>> [1]
>> (sig)
>> Visual Studio debug information files
>> (sig)
>>
>> Unless you intending to work on the sources, you need just the first
>> one:
>>
>> Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>>
>> for a 64-bit build of Python 3.2.2.
>
> An oddity occurs here. Yes, x86-64 is the right installer, maybe. While
> noting your msg, my PC got very slow, and I ended up going to a related
> site for the downloads of 3.2.2 while trying for the one above.
> <http://www.python.org/download/>.
>
> It shows:
> Also look at the detailed Python 3.2.2 page:
>
> * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does not
> include source)
> * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 64 /
> X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)
>
> The first of the two choices does not say x-bit anything. The second
> looks off course for my HP 64-bit PC.
>
> I'm going to just use Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2).
>
> Wait a minute Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2). Windows X86-64 MSI
> Installer (3.2.2) shows it's associated with Visual Studio. Why would I
> want that? Ah, I get it The single first line has Windows X86-64 MSI
> Installer (3.2.2) and Visual Studio. That's a really weird way to
> arrange them. OK, now off to Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (3.2.2)
>
> I'll be back shortly after I've made the install.

I surrender. IDLE does not appear as a choice when I right-click on a py 
file.

IDLE is on the All Programs list, and if I click on it, something more 
or less seems to happen, but it does not reveal anything. There is a 
comparability choice there that asks what OS did it last run on. 
Unfortunately the choices were VISTA (service packs) and Win7. I 
selected Win7 but it didn't help. Off to bed soon.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 19 05:34:25 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 05:34:25 -0500
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ja80nq$a45$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/18/2011 6:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>
> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>
> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."

64 bit python and 64 bit win 7
>
> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>
>
>


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 19 05:39:19 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 05:39:19 -0500
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ja8111$df5$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/19/2011 12:03 AM, W. eWatson wrote:

I meant 3.2.2, not 3.3.2, sorry for typo.

> * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does not
> include source)

this is 32 bit. Note that your c: has /program files for 64 bit programs 
and /program files(x86) for 32 bit programs. I know, a bit confusing.

> * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 64 /
> X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)

this is 64 bit.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 08:51:57 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 00:51:57 +1100
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGe_XJy3brdnefSPb+EsWizhQfp5vs0LWfoGy-JnpV_VOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Works fine for me from msi install on Windows 8 x64 Dev Preview

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:06 AM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop
> the same way under Win 7.
>
> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 2.7.2
> has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. ?That is, if you right-click
> on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From safeerheart at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 09:54:47 2011
From: safeerheart at gmail.com (safeer)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:54:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: dj
Message-ID: <275a84ea-7a85-42fe-82ce-eab8e63326f0@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

http://123maza.com/48/gold028/


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 10:35:52 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:35:52 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2845.1321699210.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ja6tcd$dcc$1@dont-email.me> <ja6ugm$j3f$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2843.1321665700.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja7dc5$ok0$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2845.1321699210.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8ict$ejl$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 2:39 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 12:03 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>
> I meant 3.2.2, not 3.3.2, sorry for typo.
>
>> * Python 3.2.2 Windows x86 MSI Installer (Windows binary -- does not
>> include source)
>
> this is 32 bit. Note that your c: has /program files for 64 bit programs
> and /program files(x86) for 32 bit programs. I know, a bit confusing.
>
>> * Python 3.2.2 Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (Windows AMD64 / Intel 64 /
>> X86-64 binary [1] -- does not include source)
>
> this is 64 bit.
>
Yes. Did I miss something?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 10:39:34 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:39:34 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2844.1321698888.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ec6edc7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2844.1321698888.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8ijs$gkn$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 2:34 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/18/2011 6:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:06:47 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2
>>> flop the same way under Win 7.
>>>
>>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
>>> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described. That is, if you
>>> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>>
>> Terry Reedy has already said that his installation works fine.
>>
>> "I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine."
>
> 64 bit python and 64 bit win 7
>>
>> If you have installed the regular, 32-bit version of Python on a 64-bit
>> version of Windows, chances are good that there will be registry problems
>> stopping things from working correctly. See Stephen Hansen's post.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Yes, see the other fork started by MRAB I tried it. Same old problem.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 11:14:57 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:14:57 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8km7$tf5$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 5:51 AM, Alec Taylor wrote:
> Works fine for me from msi install on Windows 8 x64 Dev Preview
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:06 AM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop
>> the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 2.7.2
>> has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you right-click
>> on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
3.2.2, and not 2.7.2. The course of the thread was changed at the MRAB 
post.

What do you mean by it works fine? My criterion is that it puts IDLE as 
a choice for editor on the menu produced with a right-click on a py file.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Nov 19 11:18:54 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:18:54 -0800
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2846.1321710721.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ja8ktk$tf5$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/19/2011 5:51 AM, Alec Taylor wrote:
> Works fine for me from msi install on Windows 8 x64 Dev Preview
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:06 AM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Undoubtedly some of you have seen my post Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop
>> the same way under Win 7.
>>
>> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of 2.7.2
>> has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you right-click
>> on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Are you suggesting the mail list might be a better place to pursue this? 
Or is it from some one else?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Nov 19 18:21:52 2011
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:21:52 -0800
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
References: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <7xwravu29b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

nivashno <nivashno at domain.invalid> writes:
> I always thought that xml was very precisely split up into nodes, 
> childnodes, etc, no matter what the whitespace between them was. But 
> apparently not, or am I missing something?

The whitespace in your example becomes part of a data element.


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Nov 19 19:42:19 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:42:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5dfa9add-582f-4219-8d78-01239f80525e@p5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 17, 9:06?am, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 16, 10:50?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > sword wrote:
> > > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > > main.py looks like this:
> > > #main.py
> > > importlogging
> > > fromloggingimport Filter
> > > import a
> > > import b
>
> > >logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > > root =logging.getLogger()
> > > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > > would pass this filter
>
> > > logger =logging.getLogger("main")
> > > logger.debug("main process")
> > > a.print_log()
> > > b.print_log()
>
> > > ####
> > > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> > Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> > $ cat demo.py
> > importlogging
> > class Filter(logging.Filter):
> > ? ? def filter(self, record):
> > ? ? ? ? print "applying filter", self.name
> > ? ? ? ? return True
>
> >logging.basicConfig()
>
> > loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> > for logger in loggers:
> > ? ? logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> > [handler] =logging.getLogger().handlers
> > handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))
>
> > for logger in loggers:
> > ? ? logger.critical("whatever")
> > $ python demo.py
> > applying filter filter at root
> > applying filter filter at handler
> > CRITICAL:root:whatever
> > applying filter filter at a
> > applying filter filter at handler
> > CRITICAL:a:whatever
> > applying filter fil... at a.b
> > applying filter filter at handler
> > CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> > $
>
> > As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> > and of the handler(s) are applied.
>
> Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
> different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
> corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
> out only the interested info from it before.

Or you can add a filter to the handler (but then you can't use
basicConfig() to configure it - you need to do it explicitly).

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sat Nov 19 23:30:22 2011
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:30:22 +0900
Subject: [ANN] Oktest.py 0.11.0 released - a new-style testing library
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Rtz-YeAP73w2Up2a1woNDxZz=tna1KoiJNQfhUosY+C4g@mail.gmail.com>

I released Oktest.py 0.11.0.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Oktest/
http://packages.python.org/Oktest/

Oktest.py is a new-style testing library for Python.
::

    from oktest import ok, NG
    ok (x) > 0                 # same as assertTrue(x > 0)
    ok (s) == 'foo'            # same as assertEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (s) != 'foo'            # same as assertNotEqual(s, 'foo')
    ok (f).raises(ValueError)  # same as assertRaises(ValueError, f)
    ok (u'foo').is_a(unicode)  # same as assertTrue(isinstance(u'foo', unicode))
    NG (u'foo').is_a(int)      # same as assertTrue(not isinstance(u'foo', int))
    ok ('A.txt').is_file()     # same as assertTrue(os.path.isfile('A.txt'))
    NG ('A.txt').is_dir()      # same as assertTrue(not os.path.isdir('A.txt'))

See
  http://packages.python.org/Oktest/
for details.


Changes and Enhancements
------------------------

* [change] 'spec()' is now NOT obsoleted.

* [change] 'spec()' is now available as function decorator.
  ex::

    class FooTest(unittest.TestCase):
      def test_method1(self)
        @spec("1+1 should be 2")
	def _():
	  ok (1+1) == 2
        @spec("1-1 should be 0")
	def _():
	  ok (1-1) == 0

* [enhance] New assertions: not_file(), not_dir() and not_exist().
  ex::

    ok (".").not_file()         # same as NG (".").is_file()
    ok (__file__).not_dir()     # same as NG (__file__).is_dir()
    ok ("foobar").not_exist()   # same as NG ("foobar").exists()

* [enhance] New assertion: not_match().
  ex::

    ok ("SOS").not_match(r"\d+")  # same as NG ("SOS").matches(r"\d+")

* [enhance] Global provider/releaser functions can take 'self' argument.
  ex::

    def provide_logname(self):
        self._LOGNAME = os.getenv('LOGNAME')
	os.environ['LOGNAME'] = "Haruhi"
	return os.environ['LOGNAME']

    def release_logname(self, value):
        os.environ['LOGNAME'] = self._LOGNAME

* [change] Change not to ignore test classes which name starts with '_'.

* [change] (internal) Move some utility functions to 'util' module.

* [change] (internal) Move '_Context' and '_RunnableContext' classes
into 'util' module.

* [change] (internal) Move 'Color' class into 'util' module

* [change] (internal) Remove 'OUT' variable in 'Reporter' class

* [change] (internal) Move 'TARGET_PATTERN' variable to 'config'

* [bugfix] Fix to clear ImportError after trying to import unittest2


--
regards,
makoto


From andrew.rustytub at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 00:04:11 2011
From: andrew.rustytub at gmail.com (Andrew Evans)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:04:11 -0800
Subject: Announcing Mii (My) Chat
Message-ID: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello I wish to inform the list of a Python Application I am writing
entitled Mii Chat.

What is Mii Chat you ask? It is an IP to IP or IP to Multiple IP
text/voice/video chat client written in Python

Currently the GUI is written in PyQT and could use a complete overhaul (in
progress)

There are a few bugs: Like I couldn't figure out the Threading for the
Video so I am using QTimer.

and the Audio could be improved. But overall it works as expected! I am
happy about it cause I am not the best programmer. I have never been to
school for Comp Science Programming or any university/college for that
matter. I am self taught and consider myself a hobbyist programmer.

It would be great if some one could suggest a library for TCP Nat Traversal.

As  well I am open to any and all suggestions! I appreciate any feedback
*cheers

Andrew Evans

Here is the link

http://code.google.com/p/mii-chat/
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Nov 20 02:22:02 2011
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:22:02 +0000
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
References: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.11.20.07.22.14.820000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:32:18 -0600, nivashno wrote:

> I always thought that xml was very precisely split up into nodes, 
> childnodes, etc, no matter what the whitespace between them was. But 
> apparently not, or am I missing something?

XML allows mixed content (an element's children can be a mixture of text
and elements). Formats such as XHTML wouldn't be possible otherwise.

A validating parser will know from the schema whether an element can
contain mixed content, and can use this knowledge to elide whitespace-only
text nodes within elements which don't have mixed content (however, that
doesn't meant that it will, or even that it should; some applications may
prefer to retain the whitespace in order to preserve formatting).

A non-validating parser (which doesn't use a schema) doesn't know whether
an element contains mixed content, so it has to retain all text nodes in
case they're significant.

The Python standard library doesn't include a validating XML parser.
xmlproc seems to be the preferred validating parser. That has a separate
handle_ignorable_data() method for reporting whitespace-only text nodes
within non-mixed-content elements; the handle_data() method is only called
for "significant" text.



From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 06:23:18 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:23:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dynamically Generate Methods
References: <ad844f2a-8521-4ce4-8dfc-fb7e0fc505ad@q39g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2838.1321639492.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6c05cd6f-9adb-4f65-9da7-cd938616da41@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I see. It works.

Thanks,
GZ

On Nov 18, 12:04?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:51 AM, GZ <zyzhu2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I have a class Record and a list key_attrs that specifies the names of
> > all attributes that correspond to a primary key.
>
> > I can write a function like this to get the primary key:
>
> > def get_key(instance_of_record):
> > ? return tuple(instance_of_record.__dict__[k] for k in key_attrs)
>
> > However, since key_attrs are determined at the beginning of the
> > program while get_key() will be called over and over again, I am
> > wondering if there is a way to dynamically generate a get_ley method
> > with the key attributes expanded to avoid the list comprehension/
> > generator.
>
> (Accidentally sent this to the OP only)
>
> This is exactly what the attrgetter factory function produces.
>
> from operator import attrgetter
> get_key = attrgetter(*key_attrs)
>
> But if your attribute names are variable and arbitrary, I strongly
> recommend you store them in a dict instead. ?Setting them as instance
> attributes risks that they might conflict with the regular attributes
> and methods on your objects.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>
>



From phd at phdru.name  Sun Nov 20 07:19:40 2011
From: phd at phdru.name (Oleg Broytman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:19:40 +0400
Subject: SQLObject 1.2.0
Message-ID: <20111120121940.GC24874@iskra.aviel.ru>

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 1.2.0, the first stable release of branch
1.2 of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/1.2.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

Features & Interface
--------------------

* Strings are treated specially in Select to allow
  Select(['id, 'name'], where='value = 42'). Update allows a string in
  WHERE.

* ForeignKey('Table', refColumn='refcol_id') to allow ForeignKey to
  point to a non-id column; the referred column must be a unique integer
  column.

* delColumn now accepts a ForeignKey's name without 'ID'.

* Support for PostgreSQL 7.* is dropped. The minimal supported version of
  PostgreSQL is 8.1 now.

* Quoting rules changed for PostgreSQL: SQLObject uses E'' escape string
  if the string contains characters escaped with backslash.

* A bug caused by psycopg2 recently added a new boolean not callable
  autocommit attribute was fixed.

* sqlobject.__doc__ and main.__doc__ no longer contain version number.
  Use sqlobject.version or version_info.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            phd at phdru.name
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Sun Nov 20 08:01:15 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:01:15 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?


From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

Hi All,

I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
I am trying to implement a ProgressBar  for this installer. So that the user will come to know the progress of the installation.
I am using pypi progressbar module.
The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.

I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1() updates it to 5%,  func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the console.

My questions are:

1.       Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and powershell.?  As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and writing only in powershell.  !

2.       Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?



Thanks

Nikunj
Bangalore - India

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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 08:52:03 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:52:03 +1100
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>

Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?

Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.

Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
generate there .MSI.

Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>
> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>
> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>
> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>
> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>
>
>
> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>
> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
> purpose would be to keep ?READ? a temp file for a new entry in it.
>
> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
> console.
>
>
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
> writing only in powershell. ?!
>
> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Nikunj
>
> Bangalore - India
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Nov 20 09:17:34 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:17:34 +0100
Subject: Announcing Mii (My) Chat
In-Reply-To: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jab25v$gb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 20.11.2011 06:04, schrieb Andrew Evans:
> Hello I wish to inform the list of a Python Application I am writing
> entitled Mii Chat.

Your choice of name is most likely to cause trouble. Nintendo has a
trademark on "Mii" as part of the Wii console trademark. In Nintendo's
glossary a Mii is a player's avatar.

Christian



From milleja46 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 09:32:22 2011
From: milleja46 at gmail.com (Joshua Miller)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:32:22 -0500
Subject: Announcing Mii (My) Chat
In-Reply-To: <jab25v$gb$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAANp2a6A9qo0yiMD3cuA+6JDa6AM1HzOa5jiY_heKPFQuzcmtQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jab25v$gb$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAKoEMEdGp8Z-puP8MphBwP4crhubxadithLJjGy-Ec6inNH==A@mail.gmail.com>

I have to agree with christian.... Mii is those avatars in the
nintendo wii system....I highly recommend you change the name it might
be a good idea for software but the name will most likely get you in
trouble

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
> Am 20.11.2011 06:04, schrieb Andrew Evans:
>> Hello I wish to inform the list of a Python Application I am writing
>> entitled Mii Chat.
>
> Your choice of name is most likely to cause trouble. Nintendo has a
> trademark on "Mii" as part of the Wii console trademark. In Nintendo's
> glossary a Mii is a player's avatar.
>
> Christian
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Nov 20 10:03:24 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:03:24 +0100
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
In-Reply-To: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <zf-dnQerydL_vVXTnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <jab4rs$dq2$1@dough.gmane.org>

nivashno, 19.11.2011 22:32:
> I've got this code:
>
> >>> dom = xml.dom.minidom.parse('myfile.xml')
> >>> for testnode in dom.getElementsByTagName('tests')[0].childNodes:
> ...     print testnode
>
> When it's working on this xml:
>
>      <tests>
>        <test>something</test>
>      </tests>
>
> I get the following:
>
> <DOM Text node "u'\n      '">
> <DOM Element: test at 0xaa6bfac>
> <DOM Text node "u'\n    '">
>
> But when it's working on this xml:
>
>      <tests><test>something</test></tests>
>
> I get this:
>
> <DOM Element: test at 0xbc6f1ac>
>
>
> I always thought that xml was very precisely split up into nodes,
> childnodes, etc, no matter what the whitespace between them was. But
> apparently not, or am I missing something?

You already got some answers to this question. I'd just like to point you 
to the xml.etree.(c)ElementTree packages, which are substantially faster 
and easier to use than minidom.

Stefan



From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:15:05 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:15:05 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
Message-ID: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org>

I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.


My usecase is following:


success = False
try:
    import lib1_version1 as lib1
    import lib2_version1 as lib2
    success = True
except ImportError:
    pass
if not success:
    try:
        import lib1_version2 as lib1
        import lib2_version2 as lib2
        success = True
    except importError:
        pass
if not success:
    . . .



Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory


At this moment this is more a thought excercise than a real issue, but I
thought that perhaps somebody encountered this kind of issue and had an
idea how to deal with such situations.

One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use
the next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.



From renesd at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:25:07 2011
From: renesd at gmail.com (illume)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyGameZine launched.  See http://pygame.org for details.
Message-ID: <16451527.473.1321802707273.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqan20>

Hey ya,

today we launched the first issue of PyGameZine.

For more info, please see the pygame website: 
    http://www.pygame.org/


cheers!


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:39:36 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31034729.395.1321803576950.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prlm15>

del sys.modules['my-module']

However if your module imported other modules, they'll still be there.
If there are references to objects your module created, they'll still be there.

A better option IMO is to use imp.find_module and then import.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:39:36 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31034729.395.1321803576950.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prlm15>

del sys.modules['my-module']

However if your module imported other modules, they'll still be there.
If there are references to objects your module created, they'll still be there.

A better option IMO is to use imp.find_module and then import.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov 20 10:46:44 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Nov 2011 15:46:44 GMT
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:15:05 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:

> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.

Not really. Python modules are objects, like everything else in Python, 
and can only be deleted when the garbage collector is certain that 
nothing else is keeping a reference to it. So long as any object, 
anywhere, no matter how deep in your code or in third-party code, has a 
reference to the module, you can't force it to be deleted.

You can remove it from your application's namespace:

import math
result = math.sin(1.2345)
del math


This, however, is not sufficient to free the module, as it is cached. You 
can (but shouldn't!) do this as well:

import sys
del sys.modules['math']

But please don't delete modules from the cache unless (1) you really need 
to, and (2) you are prepared for the consequences. "Just in case the 
library uses too much memory" is not a good reason for deleting the 
module.

The problem is, if you delete the module from the cache, but some other 
part of your application still holds onto a reference to the module 
(directly, or indirectly), the next time you import the library, Python 
will not use the cached version but will create a second, independent 
copy of the module in memory. Instead of saving memory, you have just 
DOUBLED the amount of memory used by the library. You may also run into 
bizarre, hard to debug problems due to breaking the "modules are 
singletons" promise.

Trust me, this opens the door to a world of pain.


> success = False
> try:
>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>     success = True
> except ImportError:
>     pass
> if not success:
>     try:
>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>         success = True
>     except importError:
>         pass


Can you mix lib1_version1 and lib2_version2? If so, the best way of doing 
this would be:

try:
    import lib1_version1 as lib1
except ImportError:
    try:
        import lib1_version2 as lib1
    except ImportError:
        # Last chance. If this fails, it is a fatal error.
        import lib1_version3 as lib1

And then do the same for lib2.


> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use the
> next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.

What if the libs change between one run of your program and the next?


-- 
Steven


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:39:28 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:39:28 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven, Mika,

Thanks for your answers.

It's always good to know which options exist.
It makes it easier to choose the right one depending on the situation.

On 11/20/2011 04:46 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:15:05 +0100, Gelonida N wrote:
> 
>> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
>> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.
> 
> 
> You can remove it from your application's namespace:
> 
> import math
> result = math.sin(1.2345)
> del math
> 
> 
> This, however, is not sufficient to free the module, as it is cached. You 
> can (but shouldn't!) do this as well:
> 
> import sys
> del sys.modules['math']
> 
> 
> The problem is, if you delete the module from the cache, but some other 
> part of your application still holds onto a reference to the module 
> (directly, or indirectly), the next time you import the library, Python 
> will not use the cached version but will create a second, independent 
> copy of the module in memory. Instead of saving memory, you have just 
> DOUBLED the amount of memory used by the library. You may also run into 
> bizarre, hard to debug problems due to breaking the "modules are 
> singletons" promise.
> 
in my case only one module (the one with the try import statements)
would import these libraries.


>> success = False
>> try:
>>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>>     success = True
>> except ImportError:
>>     pass
>> if not success:
>>     try:
>>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>>         success = True
>>     except importError:
>>         pass
> 
> 
> Can you mix lib1_version1 and lib2_version2? If so, the best way of doing 
> this would be:
> 
> try:
>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
> except ImportError:
>     try:
>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>     except ImportError:
>         # Last chance. If this fails, it is a fatal error.
>         import lib1_version3 as lib1
> 
No mixing would not be possible.

So either I need the first two libs or the second two.

> 
>> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
>> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use the
>> next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.
> 
> What if the libs change between one run of your program and the next?
>

Well that's why wondered whether there is a dynamic solution.
However if I'd like to force a rescan I could always just delete the
config file.


I think I'll look at imp.find_module as Miki suggested.
In my case it should probably be enough to know whether a group of
modules exist.
Theoretically a module could exist, but fail to import but if in this
rare situations one of the libraries stays in memory it wouldn't be the
biggest issue.

I'd just like to avoid that (this is not my use case, but just a (crazy)
example) TKInter, wxWidgets, and pyQt were all loaded even if due I'd
use only one of them due to the lack of other packages







From shilparani9030 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:40:47 2011
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From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Sun Nov 20 11:40:58 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:40:58 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Thanks for reply.
Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ). 
Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am  using Python.

I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
 
The current look of the installer is completely command line based.


-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
To: Badjatya, Nikunj
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?

Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.

Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
generate there .MSI.

Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>
> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>
> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>
> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>
> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>
>
>
> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>
> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>
> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
> console.
>
>
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
> writing only in powershell. ?!
>
> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Nikunj
>
> Bangalore - India
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:53:06 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:53:06 +1100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
> No mixing would not be possible.
>
> So either I need the first two libs or the second two.
>

I wonder, can you make the first one import the second one? That
automatically defines your dependency right there, and may make things
clearer - you import lib1_version1, and if that fails, you import
lib1_version2; if either succeeds, you know the matching lib2 is
available.

ChrisA


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 12:21:00 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:21:00 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jabctt$4c8$1@dough.gmane.org>

I forgot to mention, that this is at the moment more a thought
experiment, than a real need.


On 11/20/2011 05:53 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> No mixing would not be possible.
>>
>> So either I need the first two libs or the second two.
>>
> 
> I wonder, can you make the first one import the second one? That
> automatically defines your dependency right there, and may make things
> clearer - you import lib1_version1, and if that fails, you import
> lib1_version2; if either succeeds, you know the matching lib2 is
> available.
> 

At the moment I will do exactly what you suggested. I will make sure,
that always the first import fails.

But I wanted to learn more what is possible and which potential can of
worms I would open if I wanted to unimport a library of which I'm sure
that nobody is currently referencing (or refering? Not sure about my
English here) to.



From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 13:06:44 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:06:44 +0100
Subject: scraping a tumblr.com archive page
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I want to extract the URLs of all the posts on a tumblr blog. Let's
take for instance this blog: http://loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/archive .
If I download this page with a script, there are only 50 posts in the
HTML. If you scroll down in your browser to the end of the archive,
the browser will dynamically load newer and newer posts.

How to scrape such a dynamic page?

Thanks,

Laszlo


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Nov 20 13:18:21 2011
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:18:21 -0500
Subject: scraping a tumblr.com archive page
In-Reply-To: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXi35SpyeKVXfni=BeEUqCZNo6bAUx9C_M56=X0RP3qsww@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to extract the URLs of all the posts on a tumblr blog. Let's
> take for instance this blog: http://loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/archive .
> If I download this page with a script, there are only 50 posts in the
> HTML. If you scroll down in your browser to the end of the archive,
> the browser will dynamically load newer and newer posts.
>
> How to scrape such a dynamic page?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Laszlo
> --

The page isn't really that dynamic- HTTP doesn't allow for that.
Scrolling down the page triggers some Javascript. That Javascript
sends some HTTP requests to the server, which returns more HTML, which
gets stuck into the middle of the page. If you take the time to
monitor your network traffic using a tool like Firebug, you should be
able to figure out the pattern in the requests for more content. Just
send those same requests yourself and parse the results.


From andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 15:02:11 2011
From: andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:02:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
Message-ID: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

Hello List,

How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?

For example,

I would like to send this function:
def addition(x,y):
   return x+y
and have the socket server perform the operation and send is back to
the end user.

Question 2:
On that same server, I want a user to be able to pass a file to the
server along with code.  What is the best way to pass file to the
server?


Thank you for any suggestions or resources you can provide.

Andrew


From spartan.the at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 15:44:26 2011
From: spartan.the at gmail.com (spartan.the)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:44:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
References: <roy-EB07D8.20574216112011@news.panix.com>
	<1s1fp8-6la.ln1@pluto.solar-empire.de>
	<roy-DD0C8A.09093317112011@news.panix.com>
	<874ny2fzn6.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>
	<roy-C6E9FF.20363817112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ae6e37a5-9d8d-41cc-8204-2bdd28b489e1@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 18, 3:36?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
...
> It just seems mind-boggling to me that PYTHONPATH doesn't preempt
> everything else.

I was surprised too, but this issue is widespread. Best explained
here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/tahoe-lafs/+bug/821000/comments/0
Quote:

"
The crux of the problem is that the Python documentation says:
  "The PYTHONPATH variable can be set to a list of paths that will be
added to the beginning of sys.path."
http://docs.python.org/install/index.html#modifying-python-s-search-path
This is true with standard distutils, false with setuptools, false
with distribute...
"

Phillip J. Eby (setuptools guy) was religious about "easy installed"
packages over anything else to comment on this issue 3 years ago:

"
This behavior change is unacceptable, as it makes it impossible to
ensure that
an easy_install-ed package takes precedence over an existing,
distutils-installed version of the same package in the same PYTHONPATH
directory.

Please note that that is the intended default behavior of
easy_install: if you
wish to override it, you should use --multi-version, and explicitly
select the
egg(s) to be added to sys.path instead.
"
(http://bugs.python.org/setuptools/issue53)


From sorsorday at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 16:16:26 2011
From: sorsorday at gmail.com (Herman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:16:26 -0800
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
Message-ID: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>

What is so special about the "new" operator?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 16:34:28 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:34:28 +1100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
In-Reply-To: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqsDsbVY+Tdwf5R=96ur1HuNAsw=DU2Zt-caJaQTxBV1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello List,
>
> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
>
> For example,
>
> I would like to send this function:
> def addition(x,y):
> ? return x+y
> and have the socket server perform the operation and send is back to
> the end user.
>
> Question 2:
> On that same server, I want a user to be able to pass a file to the
> server along with code. ?What is the best way to pass file to the
> server?

The easiest way is to write an HTTP server (Python has some tools that
will make this easy) and use an HTML form, which can do file uploads
as well as accept keyed-in code.

However, you will run into some fairly major security issues. You're
accepting code across the internet and running it. Python does not
protect you against malicious users reading files from your hard disk
or, worse, modifying those files. This sort of thing can ONLY be used
in a trusted environment - a local network on which you know
everything that's happening.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 20 16:41:02 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:41:02 -0500
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
In-Reply-To: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jabs5p$6i2$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/20/2011 4:16 PM, Herman wrote:
> What is so special about the "new" operator?

There is no 'new' operator in Python. Perhaps you are thinking of 
javascript or maybe jave or ...?

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Sun Nov 20 16:44:25 2011
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:44:25 +0100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>

Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com> writes:

> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
[...]

Look up the "exec" statement, the server can use it to execute any code
received from the client as a string.

Note "any code", though; exec runs in no sandbox and if a malicious
client defines addition(1, 2) to execute os.system('sudo rm -rf /'), the
server will happily do just that.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Nov 20 18:40:33 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:40:33 +1100
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
References: <mailman.2875.1321824124.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lira747i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Herman <sorsorday at gmail.com> writes:

> What is so special about the "new" operator?

It's special because Python doesn't have it. Can you refer us with a URL
to the place where you've seen Python code containing a ?new? operator?

-- 
 \       ?Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into |
  `\   hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.? ?Jesus, as quoted in Luke |
_o__)                                                             12:5 |
Ben Finney


From ralf at systemexit.de  Sun Nov 20 19:16:05 2011
From: ralf at systemexit.de (Ralf Schmitt)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:16:05 +0100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] pypiserver 0.4.0 - minimal pypi server
Message-ID: <87ehx2ba9m.fsf@myhost.localnet>

Hi,

I've just uploaded pypiserver 0.4.0 to the python package index.

pypiserver is a minimal PyPI compatible server. It can be used to serve
a set of packages and eggs to easy_install or pip.

pypiserver is easy to install (i.e. just easy_install pypiserver). It
doesn't have any external dependencies.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pypiserver/ should contain enough
information to easily get you started running your own PyPI server in a
few minutes.

The code is available on github: https://github.com/schmir/pypiserver


Changes in version 0.4.0
-------------------------
- add functionality to manage package updates
- updated documentation
- python 3 support has been added

-- 
Cheers,
Ralf


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Nov 20 19:27:59 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:27:59 +0100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
In-Reply-To: <8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <jac5ue$2bs$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 20.11.2011 22:44, schrieb Hrvoje Niksic:
> Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
> [...]
> 
> Look up the "exec" statement, the server can use it to execute any code
> received from the client as a string.
> 
> Note "any code", though; exec runs in no sandbox and if a malicious
> client defines addition(1, 2) to execute os.system('sudo rm -rf /'), the
> server will happily do just that.

It's possible to sandbox Python code, see
http://docs.python.org/library/rexec.html,
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/496746-restricted-safe-eval/ or TTW
code (through the web) in Zope. However the sandboxing is limited and
you really need to know what you are doing.



From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 19:46:14 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:46:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
Message-ID: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hello:

I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
support dynamic programming.

Can anyone list a good introduction to the files found in the source
code? I have been poking around the source code for a little bit and
there is a lot there. So, I was hoping someone could point me to the
"good parts". I am also wondering whether some of the code was
generated because I see state transition tables, which I doubt someone
built by hand.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It will be cool to see how the
interpreter works internally. I am still wonder whether designing the
language (going on 4 months now) will be harder than implementing it.

Thanks,
Travis Parks


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 20 20:28:14 2011
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:28:14 +0000
Subject: What is the difference between "new Class()" and "Class()"?
In-Reply-To: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhm-Md8MQoEhMN89H+ybm7rL3UVgC+LGPtb8=Cvfg5sqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jac9ff$le0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 20/11/11 21:16, Herman wrote:
> What is so special about the "new" operator?

Assuming you mean the __new__() method?

__new__() gets called when the class is being constructed, it returns 
the new instance. It is the real Pyhon constructor.

As opposed to __init__() which is called after the instance has been 
created. It is not really a constructor but an initializer. (Even though 
most of us treat it as a constructor!)

But you should never see code like

meat = new Spam().

it should be

meat = Spam()

Which calls __new__() followed by __init__().

HTH
-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/



From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:09:46 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:09:46 +0100
Subject: scraping a tumblr.com archive page
In-Reply-To: <CAMuTYXi35SpyeKVXfni=BeEUqCZNo6bAUx9C_M56=X0RP3qsww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuJsMnLkztSxPeZLhxXbuCc_+kmisVV6O_JGUg4eEf2=p=j3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMuTYXi35SpyeKVXfni=BeEUqCZNo6bAUx9C_M56=X0RP3qsww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMmPXnKJV23v0GWkqPxeX-1XUh4Qju-mfpABF-tzs+KZAA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the answer. Finally I found an API for this task:
http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/api/v2#posts . It returns the required
data in JSON format.

Laszlo

> The page isn't really that dynamic- HTTP doesn't allow for that.
> Scrolling down the page triggers some Javascript. That Javascript
> sends some HTTP requests to the server, which returns more HTML, which
> gets stuck into the middle of the page. If you take the time to
> monitor your network traffic using a tool like Firebug, you should be
> able to figure out the pattern in the requests for more content. Just
> send those same requests yourself and parse the results.


From loluengo at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:16:58 2011
From: loluengo at gmail.com (Lorenzo)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <90f6dc69-1b8a-49d7-aa00-662c6baefda5@n14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 11:51?pm, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and have managed to build Python 2.7 with it.
>
> The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.
>
> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
>
> Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:
>
> http://repl.it/
>
> Carl Banks

It definitely looks great!!


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:33:21 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoW_EOvQ44fZDqQ+SAf5GgGZpN2m+DZJV8J2iCbmMxVOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.

If you want to use Python as a reference for designing your language,
look at the documentation. It's pretty decent on the subject of
language specs (you may find yourself reading a lot of PEPs as well as
the "normal" docs).

But for actual code - you may want to look at Cython. I've never used
it, but it compiles Python code to C (IIRC); that's more likely to be
what you're after.

What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement
of when it's right to use this language above others. For example,
Python is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.

ChrisA


From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 21:55:21 2011
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:55:21 -0800
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_q3SCrtjiPtyphQ0aLmQZqQJeJ4_GctEuXnHb8khOC3iw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.
>

FWIW, comprehensions are often nicer than lambdas.

You might want to check out PyPy.  It's written in a more flexible
implementation language than CPython, and facilitates writing languages -
IOW, PyPy is more than just Python written in Python.
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 23:26:30 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:26:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<8762iesc3q.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<mailman.2881.1321835300.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4e7f81b4-f394-40fa-91ff-fcc6a27d9a1c@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 10:27?am, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
> It's possible to sandbox Python code, see
> http://docs.python.org/library/rexec.html

Although this has been deprecated since 2.6 & removed from 3.x (and
cautioned against for as long as I've used Python).

PyPy provides some sandboxing functionality that might be useful here:
http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/sandbox.html




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 23:58:33 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:58:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <81b06056-9928-4871-8452-feb681bbc0d0@a3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 1:15?am, Gelonida N <gelon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
> it's occupied ?memory and the related shared libraries are released.
>
> My usecase is following:
>
> success = False
> try:
> ? ? import lib1_version1 as lib1
> ? ? import lib2_version1 as lib2
> ? ? success = True
> except ImportError:
> ? ? pass
> if not success:
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? import lib1_version2 as lib1
> ? ? ? ? import lib2_version2 as lib2
> ? ? ? ? success = True
> ? ? except importError:
> ? ? ? ? pass
> if not success:
> ? ? . . .
>
> Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
> then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory

A simple way would be to create packages for each version that import
the two dependencies:

  /version1/__init__.py:
    import lib1_version1 as lib1
    import lib2_version2 as lib2

  /version2/__init__.py:
    import lib1_version2 as lib1
    import lib2_version2 as lib2

Then create a single module to handle the importing:

  /libraries.py:

  __all__ = ['lib1', 'lib2', 'version']

  version = None
  _import_errs = []

  try:
    from version1 import lib1, lib2
    version = 1
  except ImportError as (err,):
    _import_errs.append(err)

  if version is None:
    try:
      from version2 import lib1, lib2
      version = 2
    except ImportError as (err,):
      _import_errs.append(err)

  if version is None:
    _format_errs = (('v%d: %s' % (ver, err)) for ver, err in
enumerate(_import_errs, 1))
    raise ImportError('Unable to import libraries: %s' %
list(_format_errs))


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 00:04:50 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:04:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2816.1321588796.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja4mg4$v8b$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2822.1321594000.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ja66d8$fjn$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <0296a730-c952-4f14-99ca-a63a9fe96096@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 19, 3:59?am, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Yes. I tried running it. Got nowhere.

Did you run it from the shell? Did it spit out any errors?


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 00:09:24 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me>
	<c6a4b7cb-5a23-4440-b1c4-0da75c593bb0@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<ja4n8s$3fd$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2841.1321655531.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <70f026ae-9a6d-42de-880d-c1e430275e7c@13g2000prw.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 19, 8:31?am, Stephen Hansen <me+list/pyt... at ixokai.io> wrote:
> Yes, its moderately annoying that you have to do this yourself; maybe
> you wouldn't if you installed 64-bit python, but I can't be sure. Maybe
> it has nothing to do with 32 or 64-bitness at all and my guess is wrong.

I've got the 32 bit version of 2.7 & the 64 bit of 3.2 installed under
Windows 7. I'm not seeing 'Edit with IDLE' options, instead I get
'Edit with Pythonwin' from the 32bit installation.

I'm also using ActivePython, though. I can honestly say I've never had
an issue under Windows with it.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 21 00:44:56 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 05:44:56 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2884.1321842811.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
> languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement of
> when it's right to use this language above others. For example, Python
> is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.

"Python will save the world"

http://proyectojuanchacon.blogspot.com/2010/07/saving-world-with-python.html




-- 
Steven


From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 00:46:35 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:46:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face of
	exceptions
Message-ID: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Here is my situation. A parent object owns a list of files (or other
objects with a close() method). The close() method can sometimes fail
and raise an exception. When the parent object's close() method is
called, it needs to close down as many files it owns as possible, even
if the close() function of some files fail. I also want to re-raise at
least one of the original exceptions so that the outer program can
handle it.

What I come up is something like this, suppose L is a list that holds
all the file objects.

is_closed = set()
try:
    for f in L:
        f.close()
        is_closed.add(f)
except:
    try:
        raise #re-raise immediately, keeping context intact
    finally:
        for f in L: # close the rest of the file objects
            if f not in is_closed:
                 try:
                     f.close()
                 except:
                      pass

It will re-raise the first exception and preserve the context and
close as many other files as possible while ignoring any further
exceptions.

But this looks really awkward. And in the case that two files fail to
close, I am not sure the best strategy is to ignore the second
failure.

What is a better way of handling such situation?

Thanks,
gz



From nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 01:28:03 2011
From: nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com (Nizamov Shawkat)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:28:03 +0100
Subject: Server Questions (2 of them)
In-Reply-To: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4c5cedc5-65e4-4bca-a7fe-7afffde79c88@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAFwQ1SuYjDhPW_px1h2Q85NrEqkYQp9A37=C2UrX5br+=em54A@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/20 Andrew <andrew.chapkowski at gmail.com>:
> Hello List,
>
> How to do you create a server that accepts a set of user code?
>
> For example,
>
> I would like to send this function:
> def addition(x,y):
> ? return x+y
> and have the socket server perform the operation and send is back to
> the end user.
>
> Question 2:
> On that same server, I want a user to be able to pass a file to the
> server along with code. ?What is the best way to pass file to the
> server?
>
>
> Thank you for any suggestions or resources you can provide.
>
> Andrew
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Check for Pyro - it allows creation of objects on client side while
running them on server side. Pyro makes this process almost
transparent using proxy objects.

Hope it helps,
S.Nizamov


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 01:28:55 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:28:55 +1100
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>

So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?

Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Thanks for reply.
> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>
> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>
> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>
> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>
> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
> generate there .MSI.
>
> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>
>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>
>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>
>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>
>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>
>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>
>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>> console.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>
>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Nikunj
>>
>> Bangalore - India
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 01:48:45 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:48:45 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2884.1321842811.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoV=2phM383v-iMKqn2TS3GqOQYOSkKyV9-D41agUAn2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
>> languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement of
>> when it's right to use this language above others. For example, Python
>> is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.
>
> "Python will save the world"
>
> http://proyectojuanchacon.blogspot.com/2010/07/saving-world-with-python.html

I don't think Python has a hard disk big enough to save all of it...

ChrisA


From john.37 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:15:21 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:15:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<5dfa9add-582f-4219-8d78-01239f80525e@p5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <066c8586-dd11-4982-ab3a-5ff77db46b90@a3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 20, 8:42?am, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sa... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 9:06?am, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 10:50?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
> > > sword wrote:
> > > > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > > > main.py looks like this:
> > > > #main.py
> > > > importlogging
> > > > fromloggingimport Filter
> > > > import a
> > > > import b
>
> > > >logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > > > root =logging.getLogger()
> > > > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > > > would pass this filter
>
> > > > logger =logging.getLogger("main")
> > > > logger.debug("main process")
> > > > a.print_log()
> > > > b.print_log()
>
> > > > ####
> > > > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> > > Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> > > $ cat demo.py
> > > importlogging
> > > class Filter(logging.Filter):
> > > ? ? def filter(self, record):
> > > ? ? ? ? print "applying filter", self.name
> > > ? ? ? ? return True
>
> > >logging.basicConfig()
>
> > > loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> > > for logger in loggers:
> > > ? ? logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> > > [handler] =logging.getLogger().handlers
> > > handler.addFilter(Filter("filter at handler"))
>
> > > for logger in loggers:
> > > ? ? logger.critical("whatever")
> > > $ python demo.py
> > > applying filter filter at root
> > > applying filter filter at handler
> > > CRITICAL:root:whatever
> > > applying filter filter at a
> > > applying filter filter at handler
> > > CRITICAL:a:whatever
> > > applying filter fil... at a.b
> > > applying filter filter at handler
> > > CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> > > $
>
> > > As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> > > and of the handler(s) are applied.
>
> > Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
> > different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
> > corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
> > out only the interested info from it before.
>
> Or you can add a filter to the handler (but then you can't use
> basicConfig() to configure it - you need to do it explicitly).
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip


Thank you! Maybe I should find out another way to manipulate the log,
like wrap the getLogger function and add the filter at the first
time :)


From ysh1989 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:32:29 2011
From: ysh1989 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6aG66IiqIOa4uA==?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: request of "real timeout" in socket.read
Message-ID: <dcaf9012-6f6f-48f5-a30e-f2f59b89e48c@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi, few days ago I was confused with the behavior of socket.read when
timeout is used -- that the lifespan of the operation often is longer
than the time I've specified. So I go to python.org and get the source
code of python.
Yet I had read some lines of code from the Python-2.7.2/Modules/
socketmodule.c, and I found that the function was implemented in
internal_select by poll or select, this function will block at most a
span of timeout, so whenever it is called, another timeout time has to
be wasted if there's nothing coming.
So what if to change the code like this:
now = time(NULL); //may be other function
if( s->sock_timeout >= now + .5 )
    return 1;

timeout = s->sock_timeout + .5 - now;
/*
... poll or select
*/

here s->sock_timeout is a particular moment rather than a time span,
or:
s->sock_timeout = time(NULL) + timeout;
when init.


From john.37 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:33:47 2011
From: john.37 at gmail.com (sword)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:33:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting problem about uuid1
Message-ID: <b7d765ef-9833-4f31-8107-e2461b06c9c0@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

My colleague asks me an interesting problem about uuid library in
python. In multicore system with multiprocessing, is it possible to
get the duplicated uuid with uuid1?

I just check the RFC 4122, and I can't find anything about multicore
environment. Python's uuid1 method generates the uuid with time stamp,
mac address, and algorithm to gen random numbers. So, I think it's
possible to get the duplicate uuid1 at the same time.

What about you? Hope for your reply


From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Mon Nov 21 02:41:02 2011
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:41:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and
> have managed to build Python 2.7 with it. 
> 
> The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.
> 
> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
> 
> Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:
> 
> http://repl.it/

    	Very interesting.  Is there a simple way to add third-party 
libraries to these?  I assume that for pure-Python modules you could 
just put a python file in the appropriate place and import it, but what 
about if you wanted a web app that used numpy or something?  Is that 
feasible?

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From kai.diefenbach at iqpp.de  Mon Nov 21 03:11:35 2011
From: kai.diefenbach at iqpp.de (Kai)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:11:35 +0100
Subject: LFS 0.6 beta 1 released
Message-ID: <jad13n$hjf$2@dough.gmane.org>

Hi,

I'm happy to announce the release of LFS 0.6 beta 1.

LFS is an online shop based on Django and jQuery.

If you want to read more information please refer to:

http://www.getlfs.com/released-06-beta-1

Thanks
Kai




From vincent.vandevyvre at swing.be  Mon Nov 21 03:56:39 2011
From: vincent.vandevyvre at swing.be (Vincent Vande Vyvre)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:56:39 +0100
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face
	of	exceptions
In-Reply-To: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA1247.8060500@swing.be>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20111121/0217e525/attachment-0001.html>

From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 04:07:53 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:07:53 +1100
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGeKkv4PbdST8Xc+_yJo6MMKV5obvz9FrPrE-maBp+YCjg@mail.gmail.com>

Just compile your python to C

:]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:41 PM, OKB (not okblacke)
<brenNOSPAMbarn at nobrenspambarn.net> wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>
>> Some people have already made an LLVM-to-Javascript compiler, and
>> have managed to build Python 2.7 with it.
>>
>> The LLVM-to-Javascript project is called emscripten.
>>
>> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
>>
>> Demo of Python (and a bunch of other languages) here:
>>
>> http://repl.it/
>
> ? ? ? ?Very interesting. ?Is there a simple way to add third-party
> libraries to these? ?I assume that for pure-Python modules you could
> just put a python file in the appropriate place and import it, but what
> about if you wanted a web app that used numpy or something? ?Is that
> feasible?
>
> --
> --OKB (not okblacke)
> Brendan Barnwell
> "Do not follow where the path may lead. ?Go, instead, where there is
> no path, and leave a trail."
> ? ? ? ?--author unknown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 21 05:11:17 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2768.1321455056.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4f5fd473-4717-4f41-8017-d7407adc4571@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<5dfa9add-582f-4219-8d78-01239f80525e@p5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<066c8586-dd11-4982-ab3a-5ff77db46b90@a3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2169ee84-a59a-4d52-977b-00200deffc1a@m19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 7:15?am, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you! Maybe I should find out another way to manipulate the log,
> like wrap the getLogger function and add the filter at the first
> time :)

If you are using Python 2.7, 3.2 or later, you can use dictionary-
based configuration - it's fairly painless.

http://docs.python.org/library/logging.config.html#logging.config.dictConfig

If you are using an earlier version of Python, the logutils project
includes the same dictionary-based configuration logic.

http://code.google.com/p/logutils/

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Mon Nov 21 05:44:17 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:44:17 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D3E9@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Yes I am executing powershell commands into virtual machines.

Will have a look at WiX.

But please, Answer my questions:

>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1.       Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>> powershell.?  As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>> writing only in powershell.  !
>>
>> 2.       Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?

Thanks
Nikunj

-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:59 AM
To: Badjatya, Nikunj
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?

Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Thanks for reply.
> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>
> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>
> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>
> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>
> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
> generate there .MSI.
>
> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>
>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>
>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>
>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>
>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>
>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>
>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>> console.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>
>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Nikunj
>>
>> Bangalore - India
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 21 06:39:20 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:39:20 +0100
Subject: Got some problems when using logging Filter
In-Reply-To: <b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <5b246f46-ca59-43a4-b9a6-29fdfc86822e@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2765.1321443604.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b99b3c1d-9552-4c93-839d-d822cbcaca6a@g27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA3868.8010905@sequans.com>

sword wrote:
> On Nov 16, 7:40 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> sword wrote:
>>     
>>> The logging cookbook gives an Filter example, explainning how to add
>>> contextural info to log. I can't figure out how to filter log from it.
>>>       
>>> Suppose I have 3 file, a.py, b.py and main.py
>>> #file: a.py
>>> import logging
>>>       
>>> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
>>> def print_log():
>>>     logger.debug("I'm module a")
>>>       
>>> #file: b.py just like a.py
>>> import logging
>>> logger=logging.getLogger(__name__)
>>> def print_log():
>>>     logger.debug("I'm module b")
>>>       
>>> #file: main.py
>>> import logging
>>> from logging import Filter
>>> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
>>> logger=logging.getLogger("main")
>>> logger.debug("This is main process")
>>> logger.addFilter(Filter("a"))
>>>       
>>> And I expected that the console output would contain main and b module
>>> log only. But it turned out that all logs there.  Is it the problem of
>>> root logger?
>>>       
>> Hi,
>>
>> First of all, in the code you provided we can't see where you import a &
>> b, and when you call their respective print_log method.
>> Secondly,Filter("a") would allow only the "a" log events, not forbid
>> them. quoting the docs: "if name is specified, it names a logger which,
>> together with its children, will have its events allowed through the
>> filter."
>>
>> As for your problem it may come from the fact that you applied the
>> filter to the 'main' logger, while you probably want to add the filter
>> to the *root* logger. Your current hierarchy is
>>
>> root
>>   - main
>>   - a
>>   - b
>>
>> events fired from 'a' will be handled by the root logger, not the main.
>> root = logging.getLogger()
>> root.addFilter('main')
>> root.addFilter('a')
>> root.addFilter('b')
>>
>> JM
>>     
>
> Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> main.py looks like this:
> #main.py
> import logging
> from logging import Filter
> import a
> import b
>
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> root = logging.getLogger()
> root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> would pass this filter
>
> logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> logger.debug("main process")
> a.print_log()
> b.print_log()
>
> ####
> And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>   
You need to add you filter to the handler(s) of the root logger, not the 
root logger itself.

Filters to loggger object are applied only when the log event is raised, 
i.e. when one of the logging method error, info, warning, debug is called.
In your case, log events are raised by other loggers than the root 
logger, so its filter will not apply.

However any filter applied to the root *handlers* will be applied to any 
log processed by the handler, including log event raised by sub-logger.

root.handlers[-1].addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg

JM

Quoting http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#filter-objects

"Note that filters attached to handlers are consulted whenever an event is emitted by the handler, whereas filters attached to loggers are consulted whenever an event is logged to the handler (using debug(), info(), etc.) This means that events which have been generated by descendant loggers will not be filtered by a logger?s filter setting, unless the filter has also been applied to those descendant loggers."





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Nov 21 07:09:11 2011
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:09:11 -0500
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face of
	exceptions
References: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jadf1g$hpp$1@speranza.aioe.org>

GZ wrote:
> Here is my situation. A parent object owns a list of files (or other
> objects with a close() method). The close() method can sometimes 
fail
> and raise an exception. When the parent object's close() method is
> called, it needs to close down as many files it owns as possible, 
even
> if the close() function of some files fail. I also want to re-raise 
at
> least one of the original exceptions so that the outer program can
> handle it.
[ ... ]
> 
> It will re-raise the first exception and preserve the context and
> close as many other files as possible while ignoring any further
> exceptions.
> 
> But this looks really awkward. And in the case that two files fail 
to
> close, I am not sure the best strategy is to ignore the second
> failure.

I imagine you could save any caught exception instances in a list and 
study them later.

	Mel.



From ahsanbagwan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 07:13:29 2011
From: ahsanbagwan at gmail.com (sl33k)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:13:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Format the ouput in my python code
Message-ID: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

I am printing the numbers from 1 to 100. In that, I want to display
multiples of 3,5 and of both as mulof3, mul0f5 and mulof3and5
respectively.

 I am getting the output I want but I would like to format the output
to print only 10 number per line. How do I go about doing this?

for i in range(1, 101):
    if i % 3 == 0:
        if i % 5 == 0:
            print 'mulof3and5',
        else:
            print 'mulof3',
    elif i % 5 == 0:
        print 'mulof5',
    else:
        print i



From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Mon Nov 21 07:27:47 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:27:47 -0500
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGe7P+ffPOPkOCAYp7+vDCUS6fpwxSzVurWfXFGOAhtz-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D3E9@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGe7P+ffPOPkOCAYp7+vDCUS6fpwxSzVurWfXFGOAhtz-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D401@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hey Thanks. Will do that.

Just a question in general.  Is it possible that we have opened one file in r+ mode ( file1.txt ). We have 2 threads, thread1 will continuously only read the file in a loop. Thread2 will only update the data in the file. Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing ) into that file by their own file i/o mechanism. 
Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different processes one is updating and other is reading ..? Will this work in practical and what can be the complications ?  



-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:23 PM
To: Badjatya, Nikunj
Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell

WiX will manage all the progress bar stuff for you.

Just wrap it all in

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:44 PM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Yes I am executing powershell commands into virtual machines.
>
> Will have a look at WiX.
>
> But please, Answer my questions:
>
>>> My questions are:
>>>
>>> 1. ? ? ? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>
>>> 2. ? ? ? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>
> Thanks
> Nikunj
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:59 AM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?
>
> Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for reply.
>> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
>> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>>
>> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>>
>> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
>> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
>> Cc: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>>
>> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>>
>> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
>> generate there .MSI.
>>
>> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>>> To: python-list at python.org
>>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>>
>>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>>
>>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>>
>>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>>
>>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>>
>>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>>
>>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>>> console.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My questions are:
>>>
>>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>
>>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nikunj
>>>
>>> Bangalore - India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>



From santosdosreis at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 08:05:30 2011
From: santosdosreis at gmail.com (Jayson Santos)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:05:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: New memcached module
Message-ID: <9f3e0c68-3057-4a65-90f8-5e05f82c5aae@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hi guys, I have created a pure python module [1] to work with
memcached in binary protocol with SASL authentication.
I need some contributors or people to discuss some idead about it,
anyone is free to contact me, any help will be appreciated.
Thank You
Jayson Reis

[1] https://github.com/jaysonsantos/python-binary-memcached


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 21 08:06:18 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:06:18 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ECA4CCA.5050308@sequans.com>

Gelonida N wrote:
> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.
>
>
> My usecase is following:
>
>
> success = False
> try:
>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>     success = True
> except ImportError:
>     pass
> if not success:
>     try:
>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>         success = True
>     except importError:
>         pass
> if not success:
>     . . .
>
>
>
> Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
> then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory
>
>
> At this moment this is more a thought excercise than a real issue, but I
> thought that perhaps somebody encountered this kind of issue and had an
> idea how to deal with such situations.
>
> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use
> the next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are imported.
>
>   
Short answer for unimporting modules : Not possible (yes there is a long 
one :o) ).

One approach to your problem is to test for module existence before 
importing any module.

import imp

def impVersion(version)
    try:
        imp.find_module('lib1_version%s' % version)
        imp.find_module('lib2_version%s' % version)
    except ImportError:
        raise
    else:
        lib1 = __import__('lib1_version%s' % version)
        lib2 = __import__('lib2_version%s' % version)

# using a for loop to avoid to many nested try statement
for version in [1,2,3,4]:
    try:
        impVersion(version)
    except ImportError:
        continue
    break

if not lib1 or not lib2:
    # no lib imported
    pass

Using this code allows you to import your library only if all conditions 
are met, preventing you from rolling back in case of error.

Jean-Michel


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 08:08:29 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:08:29 +1100
Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D401@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D184@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D352@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGde9_bUDPOVDYGOErmGK43s32KCs=dQWKp+D7S2pazBjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D355@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGej-H+2aiay4X1mnMibdGZiMBMe6_70g=OhLbDwinmpUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D3E9@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAO+9iGe7P+ffPOPkOCAYp7+vDCUS6fpwxSzVurWfXFGOAhtz-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D401@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGc0UAjCib6egB2Wonn+SghBj5qkcPwpxNE=_SAmDtQE9g@mail.gmail.com>

New thread!

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:27 PM,  <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
> Hey Thanks. Will do that.
>
> Just a question in general. ?Is it possible that we have opened one file in r+ mode ( file1.txt ). We have 2 threads, thread1 will continuously only read the file in a loop. Thread2 will only update the data in the file. Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing ) into that file by their own file i/o mechanism.
> Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different processes one is updating and other is reading ..? Will this work in practical and what can be the complications ?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:23 PM
> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>
> WiX will manage all the progress bar stuff for you.
>
> Just wrap it all in
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:44 PM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>> Yes I am executing powershell commands into virtual machines.
>>
>> Will have a look at WiX.
>>
>> But please, Answer my questions:
>>
>>>> My questions are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. ? ? ? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>>
>>>> 2. ? ? ? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Nikunj
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:59 AM
>> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
>> Cc: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>
>> So you're executing Powershell commands into Virtual Machines?
>>
>> Add this into the installer (probably WiX is your best bet)
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:40 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for reply.
>>> Python and Powershell are required because the installer would deal in virtual machines ( VMware environment ).
>>> Some prechecks and postconfig are required in both VMware and Windows environment. For dealing with VMware environment powershell has the best bonding. For windows I am ?using Python.
>>>
>>> I am new to this field and do not know if there is an alternative available.! Can you please suggest an alternative to Powershell in VM environment. ?
>>>
>>> The current look of the installer is completely command line based.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alec Taylor [mailto:alec.taylor6 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:22 PM
>>> To: Badjatya, Nikunj
>>> Cc: python-list at python.org
>>> Subject: Re: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>>
>>> Why are you writing an installer in Python and Powershell?
>>>
>>> Just write an installer in WiX, NSIS or Inno like the rest of the sane world.
>>>
>>> Alternatively take a look at MakeMSI or the script python uses to
>>> generate there .MSI.
>>>
>>> Anything else is WAY too non-standard to consider.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:01 AM, ?<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:
>>>> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org
>>>> [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:10 PM
>>>> To: python-list at python.org
>>>> Subject: ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am using Python 2.7, windows Env.
>>>>
>>>> I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used
>>>> to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded.
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to implement a ProgressBar ?for this installer. So that the user
>>>> will come to know the progress of the installation.
>>>>
>>>> I am using pypi progressbar module.
>>>>
>>>> The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using
>>>> subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff
>>>> functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1()
>>>> updates it to 5%,? func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on.
>>>>
>>>> At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole
>>>> purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it.
>>>>
>>>> Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the
>>>> console.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My questions are:
>>>>
>>>> 1.?????? Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and
>>>> powershell.? ?As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and
>>>> writing only in powershell. ?!
>>>>
>>>> 2.?????? Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test
>>>> it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nikunj
>>>>
>>>> Bangalore - India
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 21 08:08:34 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:08:34 +0100
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
In-Reply-To: <4ECA4CCA.5050308@sequans.com>
References: <jab5hq$ked$1@dough.gmane.org> <4ECA4CCA.5050308@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA4D52.5090504@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Gelonida N wrote:
>> I wondered whether there is any way to un-import a library, such, that
>> it's occupied  memory and the related shared libraries are released.
>>
>>
>> My usecase is following:
>>
>>
>> success = False
>> try:
>>     import lib1_version1 as lib1
>>     import lib2_version1 as lib2
>>     success = True
>> except ImportError:
>>     pass
>> if not success:
>>     try:
>>         import lib1_version2 as lib1
>>         import lib2_version2 as lib2
>>         success = True
>>     except importError:
>>         pass
>> if not success:
>>     . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically if I am not amble to import lib1_version1 AND lib2_version1,
>> then I wanted to make sure, that lib1_version1 does not waste any memory
>>
>>
>> At this moment this is more a thought excercise than a real issue, but I
>> thought that perhaps somebody encountered this kind of issue and had an
>> idea how to deal with such situations.
>>
>> One solution, that I could imagine is running the program a first time,
>> detect all existing libraries and write out a config file being use
>> the next time it is run, such, that immediately the right libs are 
>> imported.
>>
>>   
> Short answer for unimporting modules : Not possible (yes there is a 
> long one :o) ).
>
> One approach to your problem is to test for module existence before 
> importing any module.
>
> import imp
>
> def impVersion(version)
>    try:
>        imp.find_module('lib1_version%s' % version)
>        imp.find_module('lib2_version%s' % version)
>    except ImportError:
>        raise
>    else:
>        lib1 = __import__('lib1_version%s' % version)
>        lib2 = __import__('lib2_version%s' % version)
>
> # using a for loop to avoid to many nested try statement
> for version in [1,2,3,4]:
>    try:
>        impVersion(version)
>    except ImportError:
>        continue
>    break
>
> if not lib1 or not lib2:
>    # no lib imported
>    pass
>
> Using this code allows you to import your library only if all 
> conditions are met, preventing you from rolling back in case of error.
>
> Jean-Michel

there are missing
global lib1
global lib2
statements right before assigning lib1 and lib2.

JM


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Mon Nov 21 08:15:28 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:15:28 -0500
Subject: Multiple Threads - I/O in Same File
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D407@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hi All,


Just a question in general.  Is it possible that we have opened one file in r+ mode ( file1.txt ).

We have 2 threads,

*         Thread1 will continuously 'only read' the file in a loop.

*         Thread2 will only update the data in the file ( say a number < 100 ).

Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell using subprocess.call() ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing ) into that file by their own file i/o mechanism.



Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different processes one is only updating and other is only reading ..? Will this work in practical and what can be the complications ?


Thanks
Nikunj
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From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 08:18:00 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:18:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to:  Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
Message-ID: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to get the data from a CSV file into variables.  I have
used DictReader to get the field names and I can report them.  When I
attempt to look at the data, every row shows the combination of
fieldname:data.  How do I get the data out?
linelist=open( "C:/Users/rjoseph/Documents/Projects/Bootstrap Plan
Design Tool/Sandbox/line_list_r0a.csv", "rb" )
csvDictReader=csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
for data in csvReader:
        print data[0]
        print data[1]
        print data[2]
        print data[3]
linelist.close()

Thanks,
ray


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 08:39:18 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:39:18 +1100
Subject: JSON passing protocol
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGczyJ+2-PTinEadTPcbqtebxPqZDXDNYqehrY+=26mEsA@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning,

I'm planning on assembling my django templates onto mobile apps using
a JSON passing protocol, probably tunnels through HTTP.

What's available?

Thanks for all information,

Alec Taylor


From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 08:42:59 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:42:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
Message-ID: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

I don't see how to get my data from the output.  I can see the data in
the rows but it is mixed in with the field names.  That is, the data I
get comes out as:
fieldname1 : data1 , fieldname2 : data2 , etc.

import csv
linelist=open( "C:/Users/me/line_list_r0.csv", "rb" )
csvReader= csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
for data in csvReader:
	print data
linelist.close()

I want to pass this data as arrays or lists to another module such as:
myfunction(data1, data2, data3)

How do I get the data I want out of the pair fieldname1 : data1?

Thanks,
ray


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 21 08:59:35 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 13:59:35 GMT
Subject: How to:  Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-21, ray <ray at aarden.us> wrote:
> I am trying to get the data from a CSV file into variables.  I have
> used DictReader to get the field names and I can report them.  When I
> attempt to look at the data, every row shows the combination of
> fieldname:data.  How do I get the data out?
> linelist=open( "C:/Users/rjoseph/Documents/Projects/Bootstrap Plan
> Design Tool/Sandbox/line_list_r0a.csv", "rb" )
> csvDictReader=csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> for data in csvReader:
>         print data[0]
>         print data[1]
>         print data[2]
>         print data[3]
> linelist.close()

The elements yielded by a DictReader iterator are dictionaries,
and the keys are the headings of the csv file. So replace those
integers with strings representing the headings of your file.

If the headings are actually those numbers, you want:

[...]
    print data['0']
    print data['1']
    print data['2']
    print data['3']
    print data['4']
[...]

-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From mlenz at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 09:00:55 2011
From: mlenz at nocturnal.org (mlenz at nocturnal.org)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:00:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
Message-ID: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>

I'm working on a project where I need to communicate with some devices via modem which have the possibility of using MARK and SPACE parity.  These are not defined by POSIX and therefore are not directly supported under Linux.

I've found the following discussion on the topic:

http://www.lothosoft.ch/thomas/libmip/markspaceparity.php

and I have been trying to use this information (since the TERMIOS module is available) to proceed with the communication.

I was able to use minicom to determine that the first device I started testing with uses 7M1 but cannot figure out how to implement the solution described by the author above.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 09:16:44 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:16:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
Message-ID: <16480720.736.1321885004083.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

I should also note that I am aware of the following discussion on the newsgroup:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.python/1HyCqPSOf50/eQINFrrFKwoJ

However, I believe this refers to implementing the solution for 8M1 and 8S1.


From nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 09:26:48 2011
From: nizamov.shawkat at gmail.com (Nizamov Shawkat)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:26:48 +0100
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
Message-ID: <CAFwQ1Ss8873_=dRystWkCaRC_q2j_XvMj2kappkD8KAe-PB+0A@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/21  <mlenz at nocturnal.org>:
> I'm working on a project where I need to communicate with some devices via modem which have the possibility of using MARK and SPACE parity. ?These are not defined by POSIX and therefore are not directly supported under Linux.
>
> I've found the following discussion on the topic:
>
> http://www.lothosoft.ch/thomas/libmip/markspaceparity.php
>
> and I have been trying to use this information (since the TERMIOS module is available) to proceed with the communication.
>
> I was able to use minicom to determine that the first device I started testing with uses 7M1 but cannot figure out how to implement the solution described by the author above.
>


"The modes 7M1 (7 data bits, MARK parity, 1 stop bit) and 7S1 (7 data
bits, SPACE parity, 1 stop bit) can easily be emulated using 8N1 (0
data bits, NO parity, 1 stop bit) and setting the 8th data bit to 1
resp. 0. This is relatively simple to implement and cannot be
distinguished by the receiver."

It means that 7M1 === 8N1. Set 8N1 mode on your side and 7M1 on the
other side. I really do not understand what is the reason to have
dedicated 7M1 or 7S1 mode - it is no different from regular 8 bit mode
from the hardware point of view. From the software point of view it is
just the matter of the definition of the highest bit. In other words,
7M1/7S1 are two complementary subsets of a single 8N1 set.

HTH


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 09:27:29 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:27:29 -0500
Subject: Format the ouput in my python code
In-Reply-To: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA5FD1.5090308@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 07:13 AM, sl33k wrote:
> I am printing the numbers from 1 to 100. In that, I want to display
> multiples of 3,5 and of both as mulof3, mul0f5 and mulof3and5
> respectively.
>
>   I am getting the output I want but I would like to format the output
> to print only 10 number per line. How do I go about doing this?
>
> for i in range(1, 101):
>      if i % 3 == 0:
>          if i % 5 == 0:
>              print 'mulof3and5',
>          else:
>              print 'mulof3',
>      elif i % 5 == 0:
>          print 'mulof5',
>      else:
>          print i
>
Change that loop into a generator, having it return values rather than 
printing them.  Then call that generator in a for-loop, something like:

for index, val in enumerate(mygen):
     print val,
     if not index%10: print



-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 09:34:14 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:34:14 -0500
Subject: Format the ouput in my python code
In-Reply-To: <4ECA5FD1.5090308@davea.name>
References: <3f23c6ac-0554-4cb7-bf7c-b98c29721796@z22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<4ECA5FD1.5090308@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ECA6166.3050401@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 09:27 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 07:13 AM, sl33k wrote:
>> I am printing the numbers from 1 to 100. In that, I want to display
>> multiples of 3,5 and of both as mulof3, mul0f5 and mulof3and5
>> respectively.
>>
>>   I am getting the output I want but I would like to format the output
>> to print only 10 number per line. How do I go about doing this?
>>
>> for i in range(1, 101):
>>      if i % 3 == 0:
>>          if i % 5 == 0:
>>              print 'mulof3and5',
>>          else:
>>              print 'mulof3',
>>      elif i % 5 == 0:
>>          print 'mulof5',
>>      else:
>>          print i
>>
> Change that loop into a generator, having it return values rather than 
> printing them.  Then call that generator in a for-loop, something like:
>
> for index, val in enumerate(mygen):
>     print val,
>     if not index%10: print
>
>
Oops.  That was untested, and it probably wasn't quite what you wanted.  
More likely something like (untested):

for index, val in enumerate(mygen):
      print val,
      if not ((index+1)%10): print




-- 

DaveA



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 09:44:34 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:44:34 +0000
Subject: decorators and closures
Message-ID: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com>

With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
executed, every time I call
a nested function:

def dec(fn):
     print("In decorator")
     def _dec():
         fn()

     return _dec

def nested():
     @dec
     def fun():
         print("here")

nested()
nested()

Will give:
In decorator
In decorator

So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
somehow?
I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 10:06:00 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:06:00 -0500
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 09:44 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
> executed, every time I call
> a nested function:
>
> def dec(fn):
>     print("In decorator")
>     def _dec():
>         fn()
>
>     return _dec
>
> def nested():
>     @dec
>     def fun():
>         print("here")
>
> nested()
> nested()
>
> Will give:
> In decorator
> In decorator
>
> So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
> somehow?
> I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)
Your function 'nested' isn't nested, 'fun' is.  What you discovered is 
that a decorator is always executed, every time a nested decorated 
function is defined.

You've also ust proved that it would be an incompatible change.  Doesn't 
that answer the question?  An optimizer that changes the behavior isn't 
usually desirable.


-- 

DaveA



From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 10:16:15 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:16:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 7:59?am, Neil Cerutti <ne... at norwich.edu> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, ray <r... at aarden.us> wrote:
>
> > I am trying to get the data from a CSV file into variables. ?I have
> > used DictReader to get the field names and I can report them. ?When I
> > attempt to look at the data, every row shows the combination of
> > fieldname:data. ?How do I get the data out?

> > linelist=open( "C:/Users/thisuser/Documents/Projects/Bootstrap Plan
> > Design Tool/Sandbox/line_list_r0a.csv", "rb" )
> > csvDictReader=csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> > for data in csvReader:
> > ? ? ? ? print data[0]
> > ? ? ? ? print data[1]
> > ? ? ? ? print data[2]
> > ? ? ? ? print data[3]
> > linelist.close()
>
> The elements yielded by a DictReader iterator are dictionaries,
> and the keys are the headings of the csv file. So replace those
> integers with strings representing the headings of your file.
>
> If the headings are actually those numbers, you want:
>
> [...]
> ? ? print data['0']
> ? ? print data['1']
> ? ? print data['2']
> ? ? print data['3']
> ? ? print data['4']
> [...]
>
> --
> Neil Cerutti
> ? "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan. ?Go
> ahead and dauntlessly! ?Make rapid progres!"
> ? --Ghosts 'n Goblins

Neil,

Thank you for your efforts.

When I use the 0, 1, etc. in the data[x] slot, I get some data.  When
I put a string in, I get an error stating:
TypeError: list indices must be integers, not str

But your suggestion has helped my better understand my problem. The
output is first a list of the keys and then the associated data.  The
difficulty is that I want to pass the data to another function will I
am in the 'for' loop.  But the first data out is keys and that is not
the data I want to send to the other function.  Is there a way to
capture the keys outside of the for loop so when the for loop is
entered, only data is extracted?

Thanks,
ray



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 10:35:13 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:13 +0000
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com> <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com>

On 11/21/2011 03:06 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> Your function 'nested' isn't nested, 'fun' is.  What you discovered is 
> that a decorator is always executed, every time a nested decorated 
> function is defined.
>
> You've also ust proved that it would be an incompatible change.  
> Doesn't that answer the question?  An optimizer that changes the 
> behavior isn't usually desirable.
>
Yes sure I think it makes perfectly sense, because you actually redefine 
a local variable every time..

Another thing (which was also the reason of the subject), I tried to 
disassemble the following:
   def dec(fn):
       def _dec():
           fn()

       return _dec

   @dec
   def fun():
       print("here")

   fun()

And I get this:
   In [29]: dis.dis(test_decorate)
   Disassembly of dec:
     2           0 LOAD_CLOSURE             0 (fn)
                 3 BUILD_TUPLE              1
                 6 LOAD_CONST               1 (<code object _dec at 
0x1c4b930, file "test_decorate.py", line 2>)
                 9 MAKE_CLOSURE             0
                12 STORE_FAST               1 (_dec)

     5          15 LOAD_FAST                1 (_dec)
                18 RETURN_VALUE

   Disassembly of fun:
     3           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (fn)
                 3 CALL_FUNCTION            0
                 6 POP_TOP
                 7 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
                10 RETURN_VALUE


Looking up the definition of the single calls didn't help much, so why 
do we need
for example MAKE_CLOSURE?
Is MAKE_CLOSURE just more generic maybe?


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 21 10:41:31 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 15:41:31 GMT
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
	<04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9iv9pbFdboU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-21, ray <ray at aarden.us> wrote:
> Is there a way to capture the keys outside of the for loop so
> when the for loop is entered, only data is extracted?

I have sometimes done the following type of thing, since
DictReader doesn't offer an attribute providing the field names.
This is Python 3.3.2 code, so revise boilerplate if necessary.

# Open once as a csv.reader instance to get the field names, in
# order.
with open(in_file_name, newline='') as in_file:
    reader = csv.reader(in_file)
    fields = next(reader)

# Open it again as a csv.DictReader instance to do actual work,
# writing revised lines to the output file as I go.
with open(in_file_name, newline=') as in_file:
  with open(out_file_name, "w", newline='') as out_file:
    reader = csv.DictReader(in_file)
    writer = csv.DictWriter(out_file, fieldnames=fields)
    # Write header line
    writer.writerow({f: f for n in fields})
    for record in reader:
        # Change a few fields
	# [...]
	writer.writerow(record)

-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 21 10:43:25 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 21 Nov 2011 15:43:25 GMT
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
	<04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<9iv9pbFdboU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <9iv9stFdboU2@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-21, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, ray <ray at aarden.us> wrote:
>> Is there a way to capture the keys outside of the for loop so
>> when the for loop is entered, only data is extracted?
>
> I have sometimes done the following type of thing, since
> DictReader doesn't offer an attribute providing the field names.
> This is Python 3.3.2 code, so revise boilerplate if necessary.
>
> # Open once as a csv.reader instance to get the field names, in
> # order.
> with open(in_file_name, newline='') as in_file:
>     reader = csv.reader(in_file)
>     fields = next(reader)

Equal to reader.next() in 2.x Python, I believe.

> # Open it again as a csv.DictReader instance to do actual work,
> # writing revised lines to the output file as I go.
> with open(in_file_name, newline=') as in_file:
>   with open(out_file_name, "w", newline='') as out_file:
>     reader = csv.DictReader(in_file)
>     writer = csv.DictWriter(out_file, fieldnames=fields)
>     # Write header line
>     writer.writerow({f: f for n in fields})

Oops! {f: f for f in fields}. Sorry about that.

>     for record in reader:
>         # Change a few fields
> 	# [...]
> 	writer.writerow(record)


-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From jabba.laci at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 10:56:59 2011
From: jabba.laci at gmail.com (Jabba Laci)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:56:59 +0100
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
Message-ID: <CAOuJsMmEuCjEzHRBcOadh8ALQWDSOLaY4cz-unY4y-x7YNO2tg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm reading the Essential SQLAlchemy book from O'Reilly. It explains
SqlAlch 0.4 but my current version is 0.7 and there are some
differences.

Here is an example from the book:

user_table = Table('tf_user', metadata,
        Column('id', Integer, primary_key=True),
        Column('user_name', Unicode(16), unique=True, nullable=False),
        Column('password', Unicode(40), nullable=False),
        Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=''),
        Column('created', DateTime, default=datetime.now)
    )

Here I get the following warning:

SAWarning: Unicode column received non-unicode default value.
  Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=''),

Changing Unicode(255) to String(255) makes the warning disappear but
I'm not sure if it's the correct solution.

For table names, the book uses the prefix convention 'tf_' but what
does it mean? 't' is table, but what is 'f'?

Thanks,

Laszlo


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:28:19 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:28:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>

Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text.  So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?



From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:28:19 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:28:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>

Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text.  So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?



From zyzhu2000 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:29:53 2011
From: zyzhu2000 at gmail.com (GZ)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:29:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
References: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7c77f2c4-09a5-4b5d-b162-b282688c0409@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

On Nov 21, 7:42?am, ray <r... at aarden.us> wrote:
> I don't see how to get my data from the output. ?I can see the data in
> the rows but it is mixed in with the field names. ?That is, the data I
> get comes out as:
> fieldname1 : data1 , fieldname2 : data2 , etc.
>
> import csv
> linelist=open( "C:/Users/me/line_list_r0.csv", "rb" )
> csvReader= csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> for data in csvReader:
> ? ? ? ? print data
> linelist.close()
>
> I want to pass this data as arrays or lists to another module such as:
> myfunction(data1, data2, data3)
>
> How do I get the data I want out of the pair fieldname1 : data1?
>
> Thanks,
> ray
>
>

It returns a dict(). You can reference the fields with
data['fieldname1'], etc.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Nov 21 11:39:37 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:39:37 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with regard
	to IDLE.
Message-ID: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>


My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on 
the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. So far no response on 
this has solved the problem.

I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.

I know at one time it worked on my 64-bit Win 7 PC,  which likely had a 
32-bit version installed on it.  After something like six months of 
modest use it stopped working as above. No IDLE choice.

I know by installing a 64-bit version, 3.2.2 failed the IDLE criterions 
as described. No IDLE.

I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used, 
nothing happens.  Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon 
spins around then zip, nothing.  Further, right-clicking on Properties 
of IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog.  It shows Start in: 
c:\Python32\, and None for shortcut.  There is a compatibility tab, 
which I've set to Win7.  I think there's a troubleshooter there too, but 
I haven't used it. Under the Details tab, it shows Name: IDLE(Python 
Gui).lnk. Folder Path as: c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start... 
Nothing after the "...".  Attributes: A

Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon. 
At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I 
tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".

When I rebooted my system a few hours after installing 3.2.2, because 
the PC was running really slowly--not because of Python, I was greeted 
by a couple of interesting messages as the desktop was populated.

I can execute Python from the command line.

1. Specified module could not be found: Load Lib, python.dll.

2. \ProgramFiles(x86)\uniblueDrivers\Scanner (x86) Python26.dll. I'm 
sure this is related to Winamp, which I had installed a month ago.  It 
had some "crazy" choice to scan for new drivers.   Of course, if it 
found one-connected with Python, and if you wanted it, $$$.  I think 
this message is a red herring. I may re-install Winamp to get rid of 
that uniblue tool that seems like nothing more than an ad.

Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to 
play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem.  My PC 
behaves normally

I'm using Win 7 Premium.

So unless some brilliant idea appears, that leaves me with the choice of 
not using Python or this suggestion... (Let's not get off into other 
variations of other "Pythons" like Active..."):

Someone suggested using the mail list at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's different 
about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that the 
inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the people who 
are responsible for constructing Python?

Comments?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:41:01 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:41:01 +1100
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqjUHyzwnDhBsk3Tm1b+35a9ZaXicHJrqrHzZPnEojG_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:28 AM, Matthew Lenz <matthew at nocturnal.org> wrote:
> Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected. ?Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text. ?So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?

Using 8N1 when it's really 7M1 means you have the high bit set on
every byte. I don't know if there's an easy way to do this fast in
Python, but what you need to do is mask them all off... I'm not sure
if there's a better way, but this ought to work:

string = "".join(chr(ord(x)&0x7f) for x in string)

In Python 3, iterating over a 'bytes' string produces integers, so
omit the ord() call. Other than that, code is not tested.

ChrisA


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:47:53 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:47:53 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
Message-ID: <5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text.  So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python program correct?

Under minicom in 8N1, it's going to look garbled because the high bit will always be set. Minicom will try to spit out those characters anyway, which will print out whatever extended ASCII garbage your terminal supports in the 0x80-0xFF range. Programmatically, though, you can strip off the high bit when you're receiving it in Python.

"Space" parity, on the other hand, should look normal under Minicom because the high bit will always be low, giving you standard 7-bit ASCII.

- Dave

From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:52:17 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate) but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert what I receive?


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 11:52:17 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>

Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate) but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert what I receive?


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Nov 21 12:08:06 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jae0hm$qod$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list at python.org> Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> writes:

> SAWarning: Unicode column received non-unicode default value.
>   Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=''),

Perhaps it would help to supply the default value as a Unicode string
instead of a plain string?

  Column('display_name', Unicode(255), default=u''),

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 21 12:11:30 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:11:30 -0500
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com> <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
	<4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA8642.7060908@davea.name>

On 11/21/2011 10:35 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 03:06 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>> Your function 'nested' isn't nested, 'fun' is. What you discovered is
>> that a decorator is always executed, every time a nested decorated
>> function is defined.
>>
>> You've also ust proved that it would be an incompatible change.
>> Doesn't that answer the question? An optimizer that changes the
>> behavior isn't usually desirable.
>>
> Yes sure I think it makes perfectly sense, because you actually redefine
> a local variable every time..
>
> Another thing (which was also the reason of the subject), I tried to
> disassemble the following:
> def dec(fn):
> def _dec():
> fn()
>
> return _dec
>
> @dec
> def fun():
> print("here")
>
> fun()
>
> And I get this:
> In [29]: dis.dis(test_decorate)
> Disassembly of dec:
> 2 0 LOAD_CLOSURE 0 (fn)
> 3 BUILD_TUPLE 1
> 6 LOAD_CONST 1 (<code object _dec at 0x1c4b930, file "test_decorate.py",
> line 2>)
> 9 MAKE_CLOSURE 0
> 12 STORE_FAST 1 (_dec)
>
> 5 15 LOAD_FAST 1 (_dec)
> 18 RETURN_VALUE
>
> Disassembly of fun:
> 3 0 LOAD_DEREF 0 (fn)
> 3 CALL_FUNCTION 0
> 6 POP_TOP
> 7 LOAD_CONST 0 (None)
> 10 RETURN_VALUE
>
>
> Looking up the definition of the single calls didn't help much, so why
> do we need
> for example MAKE_CLOSURE?
> Is MAKE_CLOSURE just more generic maybe?
>

You didn't mention what version of Python you're running.  With Python 
2, I got very different results.  So I switched to Python 3.2, and I 
still don't get exactly what you have.

A closure is needed if there's some non-global data outside the function 
definition (code object) that's needed by the function object.  As you 
supply the code I don't need a closure.  But if I add a local variable 
in test_decorate(), and refer to it in dec(), then I get one.  Not the 
same as yours.

You left out the import and the definition line for test_decorate.  Did 
you leave anything else?  And what version of Python are you using?  Are 
you perhaps running in a shell, as opposed to running code directly from 
a source file?



-- 

DaveA


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:12:03 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:12:03 +0000
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECA8663.2070706@gmail.com>

On 11/21/2011 04:39 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> ...
> I'm using Win 7 Premium.
>
> So unless some brilliant idea appears, that leaves me with the choice 
> of not using Python or this suggestion... (Let's not get off into 
> other variations of other "Pythons" like Active..."):
>
> Someone suggested using the mail list at 
> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's 
> different about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that 
> the inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the 
> people who are responsible for constructing Python?
>
> Comments?

I only see windows and users-related problems, not much having to do 
with Python actually.
Moreover, nothing forces you to use it, and with this attitude is not 
bad that you stay way
from it, no offense of course.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:17:12 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:17:12 +0000
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <4ECA8642.7060908@davea.name>
References: <4ECA63D2.7080603@gmail.com> <4ECA68D8.2060608@davea.name>
	<4ECA6FB1.6000701@gmail.com> <4ECA8642.7060908@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ECA8798.6060906@gmail.com>

On 11/21/2011 05:11 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
> You didn't mention what version of Python you're running.  With Python 
> 2, I got very different results.  So I switched to Python 3.2, and I 
> still don't get exactly what you have.
>
> A closure is needed if there's some non-global data outside the 
> function definition (code object) that's needed by the function 
> object.  As you supply the code I don't need a closure.  But if I add 
> a local variable in test_decorate(), and refer to it in dec(), then I 
> get one.  Not the same as yours.
>
> You left out the import and the definition line for test_decorate.  
> Did you leave anything else?  And what version of Python are you 
> using?  Are you perhaps running in a shell, as opposed to running code 
> directly from a source file?

I use python 2.7, and actually the whole source is this (test_decorate.py):

def dec(fn):
   def _dec():
       fn()

   return _dec

@dec
def fun():
   print("here")

fun()


Using ipython:
import test_decorate
dis.dis(test_decorate)


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:22:28 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:22:28 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
Message-ID: <0BC69704-0205-4D1E-B2BA-06DB2783F31D@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate) but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert what I receive?

The high-level overview is that you'll want to OR in 0x80 on transmit, and AND 0x7F on receive (thus inserting the high bit when you send it out and removing it when you receive).  If you wanted to be extra-sure you're receiving things correctly, you should also check to see if your value ANDed with 0x80 is not zero.

In Python 2.x, as mentioned, when you iterate over a string, you get a bunch of tiny one-character strings, which you then need to convert into numbers with ord() and back into strings with chr() when you re-concatenate it.  ord() and chr() may be familiar to you from Perl.  For example, you could do this on reception:

----

# However you get your data out of serial
received_str = receive_my_string()

ord_str = [ord(x) for x in received_str]

# An exception may be extreme in this case, but hey.  Note that
# the filter() function actually returns a list of all the
# characters that don't have the high bit set, so you could
# actually use that if you wanted to.
if filter((lambda x: x < 0x80), ord_str):
   raise IOError("Received character without mark parity")

return "".join([chr(x & 0x7F) for x in received_str])

----

In Python 3.x, iterating over a bytes array (which is, hopefully, what your serial interface returns) will give you a bunch of ints, so you shouldn't need to do the conversions:


----

# However you get your data out of serial
received_bytes = receive_my_string()

# In Python 3.x, filter() returns an iterator, which is generally a
# better thing to return, but doesn't test as nicely for a bool.
for b in received_bytes:
   if b < 0x80:
       raise IOError("Received character without mark parity")

# None of this "".join() nonsense with byte arrays!
return bytes([(x & 0x7F) for x in received_bytes])


----


There are surely more efficient ways to do what I've typed up there, but those should work pretty well for whatever you're looking to do.  For sending, you pretty much want to swap (x & 0x7F) with (x | 0x80) to insert that high bit.


- Dave




From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov 21 12:25:54 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:25:54 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 11:58:53 AM David Riley did opine:

> On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Matthew Lenz wrote:
> > Using 8N1 under minicom with this device resulted in garbled text when
> > once connected.  Connection using 7M1 resulted in the correct text. 
> > So there must be something else that needs to be done in my python
> > program correct?
> 
> Under minicom in 8N1, it's going to look garbled because the high bit
> will always be set. Minicom will try to spit out those characters
> anyway, which will print out whatever extended ASCII garbage your
> terminal supports in the 0x80-0xFF range. Programmatically, though, you
> can strip off the high bit when you're receiving it in Python.

I have been using 8n1 in minicom for years, never ever had such a problem. 
In fact, I don't even know if I can set the path to mark parity as it is so 
rarely used.  E or O as error detectors are much more commonly used.

Example copy/paste from minicom, talking to a trs-80 Color Computer 3 
running a shell under nitros9, which is a bit like unix.  I am asking it 
for the settings of its own output path, .1=stdout:

{t2|07}/DD/NITROS9/dw3install/6309L2/SCRIPTS:tmode .1
/t2
 upc=00 bso=01 dlo=00 eko=01 alf=01 nul=00 pau=01 pag=18
 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B rpr=09 dup=01 psc=17 int=03
 qut=05 bse=08 ovf=07 par=01 bau=06 xon=00 xof=00
{t2|07}/DD/NITROS9/dw3install/6309L2/SCRIPTS:

And that is 9600 baud 8n1 on both ends.  Ascii is normally 7 bit and will 
have a low 8th bit if fed normal ascii data, so how is the 8th bit getting 
set other than purposely setting 7M1 on the other end of the cable?

> "Space" parity, on the other hand, should look normal under Minicom
> because the high bit will always be low, giving you standard 7-bit
> ASCII.
> 
Yes.

> - Dave


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which, unfortunately,
no one we know belongs.


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:50:17 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:50:17 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<5074B814-C5A1-4B42-8F89-3B7406C91F49@gmail.com>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>


On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:25 PM, gene heskett wrote:

> And that is 9600 baud 8n1 on both ends.  Ascii is normally 7 bit and will 
> have a low 8th bit if fed normal ascii data, so how is the 8th bit getting 
> set other than purposely setting 7M1 on the other end of the cable?

That's what I thought the OP was doing; it sounds like he's trying to receive 7M1 in Minicom using 8N1 on the terminal and getting garbled data because the high bit is set (because the other end is sending 7M1).  I never meant to imply that 8N1 would give garbled data if both ends were set to it; indeed, that's pretty much standard communications settings for short cables in low to moderate noise environments.  If anyone else read it that way, that's not what I meant. :-)

- Dave



From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:52:52 2011
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:52:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jae35k$t9a$1@dont-email.me>

W. eWatson wrote:

> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor
> on the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. 
> 
> So far no response on this has solved the problem.
> ....

  As an alternative you might consider adding a short-cut to IDLE 
  to the  Send To  directory if that option is still available
  under windows 7 .... 

  That would seem  almost  as handy 
  only moving the mouse one more time
  to roll out the  Send To  target menu  
  before the final click to launch ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From mcepl at redhat.com  Mon Nov 21 12:55:30 2011
From: mcepl at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWF0xJtqIENlcGw=?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:55:30 +0100
Subject: [ANN] json_diff 0.9.2 released - JSON files comparator
In-Reply-To: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
References: <ja5dl5$cpc$5@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <4ECA9092.90906@redhat.com>

I released json_diff 0.9.2.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/json_diff

json_diff is an utility comparing two JSON files and generating diff in 
form of another JSON file with differences for each level of the object 
in a dict

{
    "_append": {},
    "_remove": {},
    "_update": {}
}

This is the first public release, working my way towards 1.0 release.

Development repository is at https://gitorious.org/json_diff, patches 
and pull requests welcome!

-- 
http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mcepl<at>ceplovi.cz
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC

Basically, the only ?intuitive? interface is the nipple.  After
that, it's all learned.
     -- Bruce Ediger when discussing intuivity of Mac OS
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.next.advocacy\
        /msg/7fa8c580900353d0



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 12:58:58 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:58:58 -0700
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
In-Reply-To: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkk8m7dtus2WEWL9Am4VeAYAbr5BbuoPH87mYQkzusRqA@mail.gmail.com>

The point of DictReader is that it produces dicts.  If you actually want a
sequence, then use an ordinary csv.reader instead.
-------------- next part --------------
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From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 12:59:47 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:59:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
	<mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks, this will be a great help.

Just wanted to confirm that you meant to use [ .. for x in ord_str] in the example conversion?  Got a TypeError using the received_str.


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 12:59:47 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:59:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
	<mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>

Thanks, this will be a great help.

Just wanted to confirm that you meant to use [ .. for x in ord_str] in the example conversion?  Got a TypeError using the received_str.


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 13:12:50 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:12:50 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
	<mailman.2917.1321896151.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<5536811.2361.1321898387975.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23>
Message-ID: <A95D9DBB-0855-4D48-8569-5E0911C45E19@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Thanks, this will be a great help.
> 
> Just wanted to confirm that you meant to use [ .. for x in ord_str] in the example conversion?  Got a TypeError using the received_str.

Yes, I probably should have double-checked that.  ord_str is indeed what I meant. :-)


- Dave




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Nov 21 13:20:01 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:20:01 +0000
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<mailman.2900.1321885611.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<2723247.1219.1321892899941.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20>
	<mailman.2912.1321894079.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<22753805.1034.1321894337412.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdr22>
Message-ID: <4ECA9651.8020809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 21/11/2011 16:52, Matthew Lenz wrote:
> Ahh. Ok.  So how would I go about doing that with python?  I think in
> perl (sorry for the naughty word) I could use the tr// (translate)
> but is there a quick way to do so with python?  Is it going to be
> necessary to convert commands I SEND to the device or only convert
> what I receive?

Python strings have a .translate method:

# Example in Python 2
import string

# From top bit set...
from_chars = "".join(chr(c | 0x80) for c in range(0x7F))

# ...to top bit clear.
to_chars = "".join(chr(c) for c in range(0x7F))

# Build the translation table.
force_clear = string.maketrans(from_chars, to_chars)

s = "\x41\xC1"
print s
print s.translate(force_clear)


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Mon Nov 21 13:33:17 2011
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:17 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201111211333.17806.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 01:28:16 PM David Riley did opine:

> On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:25 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > And that is 9600 baud 8n1 on both ends.  Ascii is normally 7 bit and
> > will have a low 8th bit if fed normal ascii data, so how is the 8th
> > bit getting set other than purposely setting 7M1 on the other end of
> > the cable?
> 
> That's what I thought the OP was doing; it sounds like he's trying to
> receive 7M1 in Minicom using 8N1 on the terminal and getting garbled
> data because the high bit is set (because the other end is sending
> 7M1).  I never meant to imply that 8N1 would give garbled data if both
> ends were set to it; indeed, that's pretty much standard communications
> settings for short cables in low to moderate noise environments.  If
> anyone else read it that way, that's not what I meant. :-)
> 
> - Dave

I think that getting the other end off 7M1 was what I was saying.  Trying 
to attack the bad data after capture by writing code always seems extremely 
masochistic to me.

The amount of miss-understanding that seems to pervade rs-232 
communications is mind boggling at times.  The tech itself is so old it is 
being forgotten!

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
Whatever occurs from love is always beyond good and evil.
		-- Friedrich Nietzsche


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 21 13:33:44 2011
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:33:44 +0100
Subject: SQLObject 1.2.0
In-Reply-To: <20111120121940.GC24874@iskra.aviel.ru>
References: <20111120121940.GC24874@iskra.aviel.ru>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4QUGY9KjBST3NUT6jS9c1DTVJW4DNwN8QV=yVfq-Kf06w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a million Oleg!

Cheers,
Daniel


On 11/20/11, Oleg Broytman <phd at phdru.name> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'm pleased to announce version 1.2.0, the first stable release of branch
> 1.2 of SQLObject.
>
>
> What is SQLObject
> =================
>
> SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are
> described
> as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to
> be
> easy to use and quick to get started with.
>
> SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
> Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).
>
>
> Where is SQLObject
> ==================
>
> Site:
> http://sqlobject.org
>
> Development:
> http://sqlobject.org/devel/
>
> Mailing list:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss
>
> Archives:
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject
>
> Download:
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/1.2.0
>
> News and changes:
> http://sqlobject.org/News.html
>
>
> What's New
> ==========
>
> Features & Interface
> --------------------
>
> * Strings are treated specially in Select to allow
>   Select(['id, 'name'], where='value = 42'). Update allows a string in
>   WHERE.
>
> * ForeignKey('Table', refColumn='refcol_id') to allow ForeignKey to
>   point to a non-id column; the referred column must be a unique integer
>   column.
>
> * delColumn now accepts a ForeignKey's name without 'ID'.
>
> * Support for PostgreSQL 7.* is dropped. The minimal supported version of
>   PostgreSQL is 8.1 now.
>
> * Quoting rules changed for PostgreSQL: SQLObject uses E'' escape string
>   if the string contains characters escaped with backslash.
>
> * A bug caused by psycopg2 recently added a new boolean not callable
>   autocommit attribute was fixed.
>
> * sqlobject.__doc__ and main.__doc__ no longer contain version number.
>   Use sqlobject.version or version_info.
>
> For a more complete list, please see the news:
> http://sqlobject.org/News.html
>
> Oleg.
> --
>      Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            phd at phdru.name
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Nov 21 13:36:14 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:36:14 -0600
Subject: How to: Coordinate DictReader and Reader for CSV
In-Reply-To: <04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
References: <2012e1cb-5913-4f39-b102-038a1c95a483@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>	<9iv3q7F1t5U1@mid.individual.net>
	<04bc73a1-1408-4626-991f-fad94933cb5f@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECA9A1E.1060100@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/21/11 09:16, ray wrote:
> Is there a way to capture the keys outside of the for loop so
> when the for loop is entered, only data is extracted?

I frequently do this for things like tweaking headers (stripping 
space, normalizing case, etc because clients love to send us 
messy data):

   def norm_header(h):
     return h.strip().upper()
   def norm_item(i):
     return i.strip()

   f = file("example.csv", "rb")
   try:
     r = csv.reader(f)
     headers = r.next()
     header_map = dict(
       (norm_header(h), i)
       for i, h in enumerate(headers)
       )
     for row in r:
       item = lambda h: norm_item(row[header_map[norm_header(h)]])
       value1 = item("Item1")
       value2 = item("ITEM3")
       ...
   finally:
     f.close()

Should work in 2.x, possibly in 3.x (though you might need to 
change from "headers = r.next()" to "headers = next(r)")

-tkc




From illy at otekno.biz  Mon Nov 21 14:21:16 2011
From: illy at otekno.biz (Illy)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 02:21:16 +0700
Subject: SetStatusText of MDIParentFrame from MDIChildFrame
Message-ID: <4ECAA4AC.6040803@otekno.biz>

Dear my friends....

I am stucked on a problem: I can't call a function of MDIParentFrame 
from MDIChildFrame: myturnonmenu and mystatusbar.SetStatusText()

Anybody would be so nice for telling me my mistakes? Please do me a favor.

Thank you very much in advance.

I created 3 files contain this sourcecode:
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ ls
jendelapos.py  jendelapos.pyc  myMDIChildFrameforLogin.py  
myMDIChildFrameforLogin.pyc  myMDIFrame.py
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
===========================================
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ cat myMDIFrame.py
#!/usr/bin/env python
import wx
import os

import jendelapos
import myMDIChildFrameforLogin

class myMDIParentFrame (wx.MDIParentFrame):
     def __init__(self):
         global mystatusbar, menuakuntan

         wx.MDIParentFrame.__init__(self, None, -1, "This is 
myMDIParentFrame", size=(1020,800))
         mystatusbar = self.CreateStatusBar()
         mystatusbar.SetStatusText("This is the StatusBar I want to put 
my message for the users in it")
         menuakuntan = wx.Menu()
         menuakuntan.Append(1000,  "Accounting - POS (&Point of Sale)")

         menuaplikasi = wx.Menu()
         menuaplikasi.Append(20000,  "&Login")
         menuaplikasi.Append(20001,  "E&xit")

         menubar = wx.MenuBar()
         menubar.Append(menuakuntan,  "&Accounting")
         menubar.Append(menuaplikasi,  "A&pplication")
         myturnoffmenu(self)

         self.SetMenuBar(menubar)

         self.Bind (wx.EVT_MENU,  self.jendelapos,  id=1000)

         self.Bind (wx.EVT_MENU,  self.myMDIChildFrameforLogin,  id=20000)
         self.Bind (wx.EVT_MENU,  self.OnExit,  id=20001)

     def OnExit(self,  evt):
         self.Close(True)

     jendelapos =  jendelapos.Show

     myMDIChildFrameforLogin = myMDIChildFrameforLogin.Show

def myturnoffmenu(self):
     menuakuntan.Enable(1000, False)

def myturnonmenu(self):
     menuakuntan.Enable(1000, True)

if __name__ == '__main__':
     app = wx.PySimpleApp()
     myMDIFrame = myMDIParentFrame()
     myMDIFrame.Show()
     app.MainLoop()
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
=================================================
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ cat ./myMDIChildFrameforLogin.py
import wx

def Show(self, evt):
     global pengguna, katakunci, jendela
     jendela = wx.MDIChildFrame(self, -1, "Login Form",  style= 
wx.DEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE | wx.HSCROLL | wx.VSCROLL)

     mystatusbar.SetStatusText("Login succeeded")
     myturnonmenu()

     jendela.Show(True)
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
=================================================
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$ cat jendelapos.py
import wx

def Show (self, evt):
         win = wx.MDIChildFrame(self, -1,  "Accounting - POS")
         win.Show(True)
ceo at mefi:~/sementara/tes$
=================================================



From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 14:29:24 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:29:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)


From matthew at nocturnal.org  Mon Nov 21 14:29:24 2011
From: matthew at nocturnal.org (Matthew Lenz)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:29:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>

Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Nov 21 14:42:35 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:42:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2931.1321903774.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jae9jb$ri0$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-21, Matthew Lenz <matthew at nocturnal.org> wrote:

> Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same
> result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.

Nope, that's only true for some values.

If we're limiting ourselves to byte values, then we're talking
modulo-256 arithmetic, so:

128 + 128 = 0 
128 | 128 = 128

0 - 128  = 128
0 & 0x7f = 0


What's is true is that adding 128 is actullay the same as subtracting
128, and both are the same as exclusive-or 128 (v ^ 128):

>>> x = 128
>>> (x + 128) & 0xff
0
>>> (x - 128) & 0xff
0
>>> (x ^ 128) & 0xff
0

>>> x = 0
>>> (x + 128) & 0xff
128
>>> (x - 128) & 0xff
128
>>> (x ^ 128) & 0xff
128

> I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)

Well, the weighting of the high-order bit in an 8-bit wide binary
number is 128, if that's what you're getting at...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! How's it going in
                                  at               those MODULAR LOVE UNITS??
                              gmail.com            


From fraveydank at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 15:42:23 2011
From: fraveydank at gmail.com (David Riley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:42:23 -0500
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
Message-ID: <38BF659E-38D4-4516-9F22-3C0F7F992828@gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Matthew Lenz wrote:

> Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)

It's not, though the difference is important.  They're binary ANDs (&) and ORs (|), so (0x0F | 0x80) = 0x8F, but (0x8F | 0x80) = 0x8F as well, whereas (0x8F + 0x80) = 0x10F.  For manipulating bit values (which is what you're doing, you should almost never be adding or subtracting, but rather ANDing and ORing (or XORing, but not nearly as often).

Just in case you're not familiar, 0x is the prefix for a hexadecimal number. 0x80 = 128, which is binary 10000000 (i.e. the high bit in a byte).


- Dave

From phihag at phihag.de  Mon Nov 21 16:14:17 2011
From: phihag at phihag.de (Philipp Hagemeister)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:14:17 +0100
Subject: youtube-dl: way to deal with the size cap issue + new errors
	+ issues	...
In-Reply-To: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
References: <1321124792.454176@nntp.aceinnovative.com>
Message-ID: <4ECABF29.1030805@phihag.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

As a general rule, feel free to contact youtube-dl developers and users
at https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issues/ . youtube-dl is just one
application, which happens to be written in Python.

lbrt at mail.python.org wrote:
>  I did find my way (through a silly hack) to get all files within a size range without waiting for youtube-dl to be "enhanced".
You may be able to send a HEAD request to the URL, but there's no
guarantee the response will contain a Content-Length header. In fact,
there will never be a Content-Lenght header for infinite HTTP streams.
Also, RTMP URLs are way more complicated.

>  I have also been getting errors reporting:
>  RTMP download detected but "rtmpdump" could not be run
You need rtmpdump. See http://rtmpdump.mplayerhq.hu/ for instructions on
how to install it.

>  It would be very helpful if you could redirect youtube-dl errors to a separate file you would indicate via a flag
If you think so, please open an issue. Do not forget to consider the
usefulness not only for your specific application, but also of other
applications. I think the command-line API
(https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issues/152) will be your best shot.
Note that you can already redirect youtube-dl's output to a file, just
like any other shell program:

$ youtube-dl uHlDtZ6Oc3s > log

will write a file log that contains all of youtube-dl's output. If the
return code is not 0, an error has occured.

Cheers,

Philipp
youtube-dl developer
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEAREKAAYFAk7KvygACgkQ9eq1gvr7CFw6GwCfeaF0TPNonTCaXVBDnmDBPio2
qVQAn2/JQzTbBYs+pe50t4qVCjxY+BLy
=o6uC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From questions.anon at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 16:42:25 2011
From: questions.anon at gmail.com (questions anon)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: mask one array using another array
Message-ID: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to mask one array using another array.

I have created a masked array using
mask=MA.masked_equal(myarray,0),
that looks something like:
[1  -  -  1,
 1  1  -  1,
 1  1  1  1,
 -   1  -  1]

I have an array of values that I want to mask whereever my mask has a a '-'.
how do I do this?
I have looked at
http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/masks.pdf but the
command:

d = array(a, mask=c.mask()

results in this error:
TypeError: 'numpy.ndarray' object is not callable

I basically want to do exactly what that article does in that equation.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
-------------- next part --------------
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 21 16:48:37 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:48:37 -0500
Subject: Close as Many Files/External resourcs as possible in the face
	of exceptions
In-Reply-To: <jadf1g$hpp$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <2e8d4372-393d-4c55-aa6e-6c9afd6c8ef2@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<jadf1g$hpp$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <jaeh03$2tn$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/21/2011 7:09 AM, Mel Wilson wrote:
> GZ wrote:
>> Here is my situation. A parent object owns a list of files (or other
>> objects with a close() method). The close() method can sometimes fail
>> and raise an exception. When the parent object's close() method is
>> called, it needs to close down as many files it owns as possible, even
>> if the close() function of some files fail. I also want to re-raise at
>> least one of the original exceptions so that the outer program can
>> handle it.
> [ ... ]
>>
>> It will re-raise the first exception and preserve the context and
>> close as many other files as possible while ignoring any further
>> exceptions.
>>
>> But this looks really awkward. And in the case that two files fail to
>> close, I am not sure the best strategy is to ignore the second failure.
>
> I imagine you could save any caught exception instances in a list and
> study them later.

Yes, I would raise a custom exception instance that takes such a list of 
failures in its constructor. Give it a custom __str__ method to display 
them all.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 17:43:38 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:43:38 -0500
Subject: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2809.1321562593.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <ja3eae$rr$1@dont-email.me> <ja3gtc$9vu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<ja3qv6$rhs$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2809.1321562593.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ECAD41A.9070405@yahoo.com>

On 11/17/2011 3:43 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> ...
> If you're having issues, grab a spare computer, throw Linux on it (I
> recommend Ubuntu or Debian, others will have other preferred distros),
> and see if the issues remain. Or if you're having trouble with the
> GUI, try things from the command line (Windows's command interpreter
> is pretty weak compared to bash, but it's plenty powerful enough).
>
> ChrisA

If the OP is having trouble with this issue, and if he can't make 
Windows work here, I suspect that he'll get into trouble trying to 
install and test with Linux.

However if he did want to try it, and assuming he's got 8GB or so of 
extra space, one easy way to test with Linux is to install VirtualBox, 
then install Linux under that.  I've done that a half dozen times 
without hiccups.  That way he doesn't need a second machine and doesn't 
need to repartition or toss his old OS.

     Alan


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 21 18:07:47 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:07:47 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jaelki$4ll$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/21/2011 11:39 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>
> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file.

Your first criterion for success should be that IDLE runs at all, which 
is apparently does not. How you run it is secondary.

Right-click responses are controlled by Windows using data in the 
registry. Windows modifies the registry in response to installers *and 
users*. The ActiveState installers request 'Edit with PythonWin'. They 
do not request 'Edit with IDLE' and it is foolish to complain to us when 
you use ActiveState and get their choice of context choices.

The PSF .msi installers (.msi = MicroSoftInstall format) from python.org 
request 'Edit with IDLE' but cannot make Windows put it in. If your 
registry is messed up enough, it does not happen. But no error message.

I have explained to you another way to work with IDLE once it runs. It 
you refuse to use it, that is your problem, not ours.

> I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.

You installed with the PSF installer with an ok registry.

> I know at one time it worked on my 64-bit Win 7 PC, which likely had a
> 32-bit version installed on it. After something like six months of
> modest use it stopped working as above. No IDLE choice.

So some *other* program messed things up. Stop blaming us.
Heavy or modest use in the meantime is irrelevant.

> I know by installing a 64-bit version, 3.2.2 failed the IDLE criterions
> as described. No IDLE.

Did you uninstall the 32 bit version, and best, all Python versions?

> I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used,
> nothing happens. Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon
> spins around then zip, nothing.

This is your real problem. Stop worrying about the context menu.

 > Further, right-clicking on Properties of
> IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog. It shows Start in: c:\Python32\,

This is the Shortcut tab. A shortcut is like a bound method. The 
function is the target: 'python 3.2.2 (64 bit)' on my machine. The 
starting directory is like a bound argument, although it is passed to 
the launcher that launches the function. What the Properties dialog does 
not show are the actual 'bound arguments' that are passed to the target 
as options. So one cannot know what the shortcut is actually trying to 
do. This is one of the Really Stupid things about Windows that should 
have been fixed long ago but has not.

> and None for shortcut.

None for Shortcut key, such as alt-I to invoke the shortcut.

> There is a compatibility tab, which I've set to
> Win7. I think there's a troubleshooter there too, but I haven't used it.
> Under the Details tab, it shows Name: IDLE(Python Gui).lnk. Folder Path
> as: c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start... Nothing after the "...".

Details: Folder Path is the same as General: Location. Mouse over the 
latter the the full path appears. That Properties windows are still 
fixed at 480 pixel wide, regardless of screen size, is another Really 
Stupid thing.

> Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon.
> At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I
> tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".

If the registry entry for .pyw is messed up, trying to run the file by 
clicking on it is not likely to work. Try running from Command Prompt, 
as I believe others suggested.

> When I rebooted my system a few hours after installing 3.2.2, because
> the PC was running really slowly--not because of Python, I was greeted
> by a couple of interesting messages as the desktop was populated.
>
> I can execute Python from the command line.
>
> 1. Specified module could not be found: Load Lib, python.dll.
>
> 2. \ProgramFiles(x86)\uniblueDrivers\Scanner (x86) Python26.dll.

The uniblue drivers program will match your drivers against a database 
of up-to-date drivers and offer to upgrade them. I have used uniblue's 
registry scanner program. Treating pythonxy.dll as a driver, if they 
are, is an error. These are paid programs. The free demos only scan to 
tell you what they would do if you bought them.

 > I'm sure this is related to Winamp, which I had installed a month ago.

I do not believe they are the same companies, but they may have a 
cross-promotion deal.

> had some "crazy" choice to scan for new drivers. Of course, if it found
> one-connected with Python, and if you wanted it, $$$. I think this
> message is a red herring. I may re-install Winamp to get rid of that
> uniblue tool that seems like nothing more than an ad.
>
> Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to
> play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem. My PC
> behaves normally

If you ran the psf 3.2.2 installer and idle does not run when you click 
the start menu shortcut, something is wrong.

> Someone suggested using the mail list at
> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's different
> about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that the
> inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the people who
> are responsible for constructing Python?

Python list is mirror to comp.lang.python which is mirrored to a google 
group. It is also mirrored to gmane.comp.python, which is how I read and 
post. There is some spam filtering if you use the python.org list or 
gmane group.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Nov 21 18:08:12 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:08:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2933.1321908148.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaelks$e20$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-21, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Matthew Lenz wrote:
>
>> Another thing I noticed is that the & and | appear to give the same result as adding or subtracting 128 from the ordinal value.  I'm assuming that isn't coincidence. :)
>
> It's not, though the difference is important.  They're binary ANDs (&) and ORs (|), so (0x0F | 0x80) = 0x8F, but (0x8F | 0x80) = 0x8F as well, whereas (0x8F + 0x80) = 0x10F.  For manipulating bit values (which is what you're doing, you should almost never be adding or subtracting, but rather ANDing and ORing (or XORing, but not nearly as often).
>
> Just in case you're not familiar, 0x is the prefix for a hexadecimal number. 0x80 = 128, which is binary 10000000 (i.e. the high bit in a byte).

Like the old joke:

  There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand
  binary numbers, and those who don't.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... I don't like FRANK
                                  at               SINATRA or his CHILDREN.
                              gmail.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Nov 21 18:09:44 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:09:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2933.1321908148.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaelks$e20$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jaelno$e20$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-21, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Like the old joke:
>
>   There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand
>   binary numbers, and those who don't.

OK, it's not _much_ of a joke, but I don't get to use it very often,
so I couldn't let it go (for one thing, it only works in "print").


-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I feel like I am
                                  at               sharing a ``CORN-DOG''
                              gmail.com            with NIKITA KHRUSCHEV ...


From chasrmartin at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 18:17:05 2011
From: chasrmartin at gmail.com (Charlie Martin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:17:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
Message-ID: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

This is what seems like an odd bug, but in code I'd thing often-enough used it must be the expected behavior and I just don't understand.  Please, sirs/mesdames, is this a bug?

Example code:
---------------- begin code -------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

"""
@-character WTF?
"""
import sys
import os
import logging, logging.handlers
import socket

log = logging.getLogger(__name__)
log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)

fmtColon = logging.Formatter('[%(module)s:%(lineno)03d]:%(message)s')
strC = logging.handlers.SysLogHandler(address='/dev/log')
strC.setFormatter(fmtColon)
strC.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
log.addHandler(strC)

fmtAt = logging.Formatter('[%(module)s@%(lineno)03d]:%(message)s')
strA = logging.handlers.SysLogHandler(address='/dev/log')
strA.setFormatter(fmtAt)
strA.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
log.addHandler(strA)

log.info("My log message:isn't it special?")
---------------- end code ----------------

produces these entries in the syslog messages:

---------------- begin results ----------------------
Nov 21 16:09:56 crmartin [atSign: 026]:My log message:isn't it special?
Nov 21 16:09:56 crmartin [atSign at 026]: My log message:isn't it special?
---------------- end results ------------------------

Observe: 

* in the first entry, "[atSign: 026]:My" with space after the first ":"; that space isn't in the format string.

* in the second entry "[atSign at 026]: My" again has an additional space after the first ":"

the colons following are unchanged.

This **seems** like it must be some obscure bug, but perhaps it's some undocumented feature?


From chasrmartin at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 18:19:28 2011
From: chasrmartin at gmail.com (Charlie Martin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:19:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
In-Reply-To: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
References: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <10658976.1704.1321917568761.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Oops, forgot the python version etc:

bash $ /usr/bin/env python -V
Python 2.7

On SuSE 11.4

bash $ uname -a
Linux crmartin 2.6.37.6-0.9-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-10-19 22:33:27 +0200 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 19:07:45 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:07:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2884.1321842811.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec9e558$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4f3c8fa8-c792-4afc-8e69-ef65538e5121@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 12:44?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:33:21 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > What's your language's "special feature"? I like to keep track of
> > languages using a "slug" - a simple one-sentence (or less) statement of
> > when it's right to use this language above others. For example, Python
> > is optimized for 'rapid deployment'.
>
> "Python will save the world"
>
> http://proyectojuanchacon.blogspot.com/2010/07/saving-world-with-pyth...
>
> --
> Steven

The language, psuedo name Unit, will be a low-level language capable
of replacing C in most contexts. However, it will have integrated
functional programming features (tail-end recursion optimization,
tuples, currying, closures, function objects, etc.) and dynamic
features (prototypical inheritance and late binding).

It is a hybrid between C#, C++, F#, Python and JavaScript. The hope is
that you won't pay for features you don't use, so it will run well on
embedded devices as well as on desktops - that's to be seen. I'm no
master compiler builder, here.

The functional code is pretty basic:

let multiply = function x y: return x * y # automatic generic
arguments (integer here)
let double = multiply _ 2 # short-hand currying - inlined if possible
let doubled = [|0..10|].Apply(double) # double zero through 10

The dynamic code is pretty simple too:

dynamic Prototype = function value: self.Value = value # simulated
ctor
Prototype.Double = function: self.Value * 2 # self refers to instance
new Prototype(5).Double() # 10
new Prototype(6).Double() # 12
dynamic x = 5 # five wrapped with a bag
x.Double = function: self * 2
x.Double() # 10
dynamic y = 6
y.Double = x.Double # member sharing
y.Double() #12

The language also sports OOP features like are found in Java or C#:
single inheritance; multiple interface inheritance; sealed, virtual
and abstract types and members; explicit inheritance; extension
methods and namespaces.

The coolest feature will be its generics-oriented function signatures.
By default everything is generic. You apply constraints to parameters,
rather than specific types. For instance:

let Average = function values:
    where values is ICountable<Integer32> IIterable<Integer32>
    assert values.Count > 0 "The values list cannot be empty."
    throws ArgumentException
    returns Float64
    let sum = 0
    for value in values:
        sum += value
    return sum / values.Count # floating point division

As you can see, the function headers can be larger than the bodies
themselves. They support type constraints, assertions (argument
checking), exceptions enumeration, default parameters and return type
information. All of them can be left out if the type of arguments can
be inferred.

This will not be an overnight project. :-)


From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 21 19:25:03 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:25:03 -0500
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-38AE1C.19250321112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jabba Laci <jabba.laci at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm reading the Essential SQLAlchemy book from O'Reilly.

Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the 
other direction.  Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 19:32:30 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:32:30 +1100
Subject: Non-POSIX parity (mark/space) with Python-Serial on Linux.
In-Reply-To: <jaelno$e20$2@reader1.panix.com>
References: <27511132.925.1321884055247.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnf38>
	<201111211225.54775.gheskett@wdtv.com>
	<2A18CB23-4EDC-46E9-A49D-DEDE28C7FBEF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2925.1321900402.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<6568831.884.1321903764225.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhd1>
	<mailman.2933.1321908148.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaelks$e20$1@reader1.panix.com> <jaelno$e20$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpoAnJQ+mDDFL=48vxr7QpcGSmOEBnQTJonPdkXhbqAWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Like the old joke:
>>
>> ? There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand
>> ? binary numbers, and those who don't.
>
> OK, it's not _much_ of a joke, but I don't get to use it very often,
> so I couldn't let it go (for one thing, it only works in "print").

On a scale of 1 to 10, what is the probability that this is in binary?

There's plenty of great binary jokes going around.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Nov 21 19:48:42 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:48:42 +0000
Subject: mask one array using another array
In-Reply-To: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECAF16A.7080707@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 21/11/2011 21:42, questions anon wrote:
> I am trying to mask one array using another array.
>
> I have created a masked array using
> mask=MA.masked_equal(myarray,0),
> that looks something like:
> [1  -  -  1,
>   1  1  -  1,
>   1  1  1  1,
>   -   1  -  1]
>
> I have an array of values that I want to mask whereever my mask has a a '-'.
> how do I do this?
> I have looked at
> http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/masks.pdf but
> the command:
>
> d = array(a, mask=c.mask()
>
> results in this error:
> TypeError: 'numpy.ndarray' object is not callable
>
> I basically want to do exactly what that article does in that equation.
>
> Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
>
The article is using the Numeric module, but your error says that you're 
using
the numpy module. They're not the same.


From questions.anon at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 20:37:57 2011
From: questions.anon at gmail.com (questions anon)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:37:57 +1100
Subject: mask one array using another array
In-Reply-To: <4ECAF16A.7080707@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <CAN_=ogu73n6vTZ0qs=RWKh4bE7pHBqZv=B7GxSdrMsiQ4yJQ1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ECAF16A.7080707@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAN_=ogs3Nn2CQxpJeoxBjhULhygUgWvcoSzbjOsgxfWHWfHiJw@mail.gmail.com>

thank you, that makes sense.
 I should have posted this on another list (which I have now). and the
change required is:

If your new array is x, you can use:

numpy.ma.masked_array(x, mask=mask.mask)

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:48 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> On 21/11/2011 21:42, questions anon wrote:
>
>> I am trying to mask one array using another array.
>>
>> I have created a masked array using
>> mask=MA.masked_equal(myarray,**0),
>> that looks something like:
>> [1  -  -  1,
>>  1  1  -  1,
>>  1  1  1  1,
>>  -   1  -  1]
>>
>> I have an array of values that I want to mask whereever my mask has a a
>> '-'.
>> how do I do this?
>> I have looked at
>> http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/**climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/**masks.pdf<http://www.cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/climdyn/staff/lih/pubs/docs/masks.pdf>but
>> the command:
>>
>> d = array(a, mask=c.mask()
>>
>> results in this error:
>> TypeError: 'numpy.ndarray' object is not callable
>>
>> I basically want to do exactly what that article does in that equation.
>>
>> Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>  The article is using the Numeric module, but your error says that you're
> using
> the numpy module. They're not the same.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From bthate at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 21:49:28 2011
From: bthate at gmail.com (Bart Thate)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:49:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JSONBOT 0.80.3 RELEASED
Message-ID: <29575735.33.1321930168912.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>

Hello world !! I released JSONBOT 0.80.3 .. the first in the 0.80 series ;]

about
~~~~~

JSONBOT is a chatbot that can take commands and react to events on the network it is connected to (IRC, XMPP, WEB
mostely). Push functionality is also provided (think RSS feeds to your IRC channel or XMPP conference). It is possible to program your own plugins to create custom
functionality. 

source/docs
~~~~~~~~~~~

 see http://jsonbot.org and http://jsonbot.googlecode.com


make backup first
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I added the jsb-backup program, please run this before starting the 0.80 bot. It will make a backup of your datadir into ~/jsb-backups

changes
~~~~~~~

* GAE is no longer part of the standard distribution, as that is aimed at shell users as of 0.80 - use the mercurial repo if you want to use the GAE part of the bot
* web console is now supported on shell - use the jsb-tornado program to launch a tornado web server bot on port 10102 
* jsb-xmpp now supports OpenFire - use --openfire option to enable this
* todo now uses per user databases instead of per channel - use the -c option to the todo command to show the channel todo
* learn items are not global per default - use !learn-toglobal to copy local learn data to the global learndb
* relay plugins has been rewritten to use bot.cfg.name as well - means that relays need to be created again  
* jsb-udpstripped program has been added that can be used to send udp data to the bot without the need of making config files (copy and edit it)
* add fulljids = 1 to your xmpp bot config (most of the times in ~/.jsb/config/fleet/default-sxmpp/config) to enable full JID discovery in xmpp conference rooms
  (non anonymous)

and:

* lots of new plugins .. see !list ;]
* lots of bug fixes - thnx everybody for reporting them
* still lots of things to fix at 

03:35 < jsonbot> tracker is http://code.google.com/p/jsonbot/issues/list

If you find any problems or have feature request please post that on the tracker url above.

Or try @botfather on #dunkbots on irc.freenode.net ;]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 21:51:00 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:51:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-38AE1C.19250321112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 22, 10:25?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the
> other direction. ?Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?

I've never found SQLAlchemy to be anything but sane and approachable.
It's really worth understanding _how_ it works so you can see there's
no magic happening there.

What cost do you see inherit in the use of SQLAlchemy?


From ray at aarden.us  Mon Nov 21 21:58:53 2011
From: ray at aarden.us (ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:58:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to Get Data from DictReader for CSV Files
References: <f4687997-bd01-4745-827f-b8272e297aa2@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<7c77f2c4-09a5-4b5d-b162-b282688c0409@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5c8c69d-e27a-4964-8c55-110b2268e8b5@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 10:29?am, GZ <zyzhu2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Nov 21, 7:42?am, ray <r... at aarden.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I don't see how to get my data from the output. ?I can see the data in
> > the rows but it is mixed in with the field names. ?That is, the data I
> > get comes out as:
> > fieldname1 : data1 , fieldname2 : data2 , etc.
>
> > import csv
> > linelist=open( "C:/Users/me/line_list_r0.csv", "rb" )
> > csvReader= csv.DictReader( linelist, dialect='excel' )
> > for data in csvReader:
> > ? ? ? ? print data
> > linelist.close()
>
> > I want to pass this data as arrays or lists to another module such as:
> > myfunction(data1, data2, data3)
>
> > How do I get the data I want out of the pair fieldname1 : data1?
>
> > Thanks,
> > ray
>
> It returns a dict(). You can reference the fields with
> data['fieldname1'], etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

GZ,

That works great.

Thanks,
ray


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:00:46 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:00:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> Comments?

Please don't start multiple threads on the same issue.


From nytrokiss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:03:06 2011
From: nytrokiss at gmail.com (James Matthews)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:03:06 -0500
Subject: JSONBOT 0.80.3 RELEASED
In-Reply-To: <29575735.33.1321930168912.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
References: <29575735.33.1321930168912.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
Message-ID: <CAGxnUUz1vh9v7Qcd2DrhxQcnmhYNqVjYX3YwR2wer8RJby0w6A@mail.gmail.com>

Looks good I am going to plug twisted into this.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Bart Thate <bthate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello world !! I released JSONBOT 0.80.3 .. the first in the 0.80 series ;]
>
> about
> ~~~~~
>
> JSONBOT is a chatbot that can take commands and react to events on the
> network it is connected to (IRC, XMPP, WEB
> mostely). Push functionality is also provided (think RSS feeds to your IRC
> channel or XMPP conference). It is possible to program your own plugins to
> create custom
> functionality.
>
> source/docs
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>  see http://jsonbot.org and http://jsonbot.googlecode.com
>
>
> make backup first
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I added the jsb-backup program, please run this before starting the 0.80
> bot. It will make a backup of your datadir into ~/jsb-backups
>
> changes
> ~~~~~~~
>
> * GAE is no longer part of the standard distribution, as that is aimed at
> shell users as of 0.80 - use the mercurial repo if you want to use the GAE
> part of the bot
> * web console is now supported on shell - use the jsb-tornado program to
> launch a tornado web server bot on port 10102
> * jsb-xmpp now supports OpenFire - use --openfire option to enable this
> * todo now uses per user databases instead of per channel - use the -c
> option to the todo command to show the channel todo
> * learn items are not global per default - use !learn-toglobal to copy
> local learn data to the global learndb
> * relay plugins has been rewritten to use bot.cfg.name as well - means
> that relays need to be created again
> * jsb-udpstripped program has been added that can be used to send udp data
> to the bot without the need of making config files (copy and edit it)
> * add fulljids = 1 to your xmpp bot config (most of the times in
> ~/.jsb/config/fleet/default-sxmpp/config) to enable full JID discovery in
> xmpp conference rooms
>  (non anonymous)
>
> and:
>
> * lots of new plugins .. see !list ;]
> * lots of bug fixes - thnx everybody for reporting them
> * still lots of things to fix at
>
> 03:35 < jsonbot> tracker is http://code.google.com/p/jsonbot/issues/list
>
> If you find any problems or have feature request please post that on the
> tracker url above.
>
> Or try @botfather on #dunkbots on irc.freenode.net ;]
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://www.goldwatches.com

--
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From nytrokiss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:13:57 2011
From: nytrokiss at gmail.com (James Matthews)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:13:57 -0500
Subject: Multiple Threads - I/O in Same File
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D407@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D407@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxnUUxNC-JaXWrEd6sxC_dgPFzFtF-mjd34D-SWjqcsaf9ewg@mail.gmail.com>

You may have some issues with disk reading as the drive heads move in
different ways

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM, <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:

> Hi All,****
>
> ** **
>
> Just a question in general.  Is it possible that we have opened one file
> in r+ mode ( file1.txt ). ****
>
> We have 2 threads, ****
>
> **?         **Thread1 will continuously ?only read? the file in a loop. **
> **
>
> **?         **Thread2 will only update the data in the file ( say a
> number < 100 ). ****
>
> Now thread2 has called other script ( written in say Perl/Powershell using
> subprocess.call() ) and those scripts are inturn updating ( only writing )
> into that file by their own file i/o mechanism.****
>
> ** **
>
> Is it possible by any chance? One file being shared between different
> processes one is only updating and other is only reading ..? Will this work
> in practical and what can be the complications ?****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Nikunj****
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


-- 
http://www.goldwatches.com

--
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From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:16:14 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:16:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ec920e3$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<jabag0$jbc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqS5z5Tfzo3D65vFzgVtEAVtz1nb8nwgnXfkD=uNsX01g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2868.1321809679.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f4566d79-1789-4919-a3e1-228297a2313f@h21g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 20, 12:21?pm, Gelonida N <gelon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, that this is at the moment more a thought
> experiment, than a real need.
>
> At the moment I will do exactly what you suggested. I will make sure,
> that always the first import fails.
>
> But I wanted to learn more what is possible and which potential can of
> worms I would open if I wanted to unimport a library of which I'm sure
> that nobody is currently referencing (or refering? Not sure about my
> English here) to.

Get how many references to an object:
sys.getrefcount(sys)


From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 21 22:18:05 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:18:05 -0500
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
References: <mailman.2906.1321891043.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-38AE1C.19250321112011@news.panix.com>
	<8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F87DE4.22180421112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498 at t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
 alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Nov 22, 10:25?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> > Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the
> > other direction. ?Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?
> 
> I've never found SQLAlchemy to be anything but sane and approachable.
> It's really worth understanding _how_ it works so you can see there's
> no magic happening there.
> 
> What cost do you see inherit in the use of SQLAlchemy?

The cost of understanding how it works :-)

Seriously.  I understand SQL.  Well, I'm not a SQL wizard, but I 
understand enough to do what I need to do.  Whenever I have to use 
SQLAlchemy, I always find myself knowing exactly what SQL I want to 
write and scratching my head to figure out how to translate that into 
SQLAlchemy calls.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:22:43 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:22:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting problem about uuid1
References: <b7d765ef-9833-4f31-8107-e2461b06c9c0@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43572d62-7afc-4554-a212-4271ee5355e5@o37g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 5:33?pm, sword <john... at gmail.com> wrote:
> My colleague asks me an interesting problem about uuid library in
> python. In multicore system with multiprocessing, is it possible to
> get the duplicated uuid with uuid1?
>
> I just check the RFC 4122, and I can't find anything about multicore
> environment. Python's uuid1 method generates the uuid with time stamp,
> mac address, and algorithm to gen random numbers. So, I think it's
> possible to get the duplicate uuid1 at the same time.
>
> What about you? Hope for your reply

Check the library documentation: http://docs.python.org/library/uuid.html

uuid.uuid1([node[, clock_seq]])
Generate a UUID from a host ID, sequence number, and the current time.
If node is not given, getnode() is used to obtain the hardware
address. If clock_seq is given, it is used as the sequence number;
otherwise a random 14-bit sequence number is chosen.

Each process would have to not only execute at the exact same time, it
would have to generate the same 14-bit random sequence. And if you're
really concerned, try specifying a different clock_seq for each core.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 21 22:54:43 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Nov 2011 03:54:43 GMT
Subject: decorators and closures
References: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecb1d03$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:44:34 +0000, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always
> executed, every time I call a nested function:

"def" is a statement which is executed at runtime. Often people will talk 
about "definition time" instead of "compile time".

Python compiles your source into byte code (compile time), then executes 
the byte code. The function doesn't actually get created until the byte 
code is executed, i.e. at run time. This is not as slow as it sounds, 
because the function is created from pre-compiled parts.

In effect, if you have a module:

x = 23
def spam(a):
    print x
    print x+1
    return x**3


then the body of the function is compiled into a "code object" at compile 
time, and at runtime the function object itself is assembled from the 
code object, name, and whatever other bits and pieces are needed. In 
pseudo-code, the byte code looks like this:

bind name "x" to object 23
build a function object "spam" from code object
bind name "spam" to function object

The hard part is creating the code object, as that requires parsing the 
source code of the body and generating byte code. That's done once, ahead 
of time, so the actual "build a function" part is fast.

Now, if you have an ordinary nested function:

def spam(a):
    def ham(b):
        return a+b
    return ham(a+42)  # returns a numeric value

or a closure:

def spam(a):
    def ham(b):
        return a+b
    return ham  # returns a closure (function object)

the process is no different: the inner function doesn't get created until 
runtime, that is, when spam gets *called*. But it gets created from parts 
that were prepared earlier at compile time, and so is fast.

Add a decorator, and the basic process remains. Remember that decorator 
syntax is just syntactic sugar. This:

@decorator
def spam():
    pass

is exactly the same as this:

def spam():
    pass

spam = decorator(spam)

which clearly has to be done at runtime, not compile time. That applies 
regardless of whether the function is nested or top-level.



-- 
Steven


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Nov 22 01:06:16 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:06:16 +1100
Subject: sqlalchemy beginner
In-Reply-To: <roy-F87DE4.22180421112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-F87DE4.22180421112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20111122060616.GA17562@cskk.homeip.net>

On 21Nov2011 22:18, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
| In article 
| <8832ab6d-8def-45d1-92df-baac40e1c498 at t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
|  alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
| > On Nov 22, 10:25?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
| > > Everytime I've worked with SQLAlchemy, I've run away screaming in the
| > > other direction. ?Sure, portability is a good thing, but at what cost?
| > 
| > I've never found SQLAlchemy to be anything but sane and approachable.
| > It's really worth understanding _how_ it works so you can see there's
| > no magic happening there.
| > 
| > What cost do you see inherit in the use of SQLAlchemy?
| 
| The cost of understanding how it works :-)
| 
| Seriously.  I understand SQL.  Well, I'm not a SQL wizard, but I 
| understand enough to do what I need to do.  Whenever I have to use 
| SQLAlchemy, I always find myself knowing exactly what SQL I want to 
| write and scratching my head to figure out how to translate that into 
| SQLAlchemy calls.

Are you trying to go the ORM route (make classes etc mapping to SQL
entities etc)?

I ask because I avoid ORM and mostly use the SQL syntax notation, eg:

    for node_id, attr, value in select( [ attrs.c.NODE_ID,
                                          attrs.c.ATTR,
                                          attrs.c.VALUE,
                                        ] ) \
                                .order_by(asc(attrs.c.NODE_ID)) \
                                .execute():

or:

    self.attrs.delete(self.attrs.c.NODE_ID == node_id).execute()

which I find very easy to read (self.attrs is an SQLAchemy table).

ORMs seem very cool and all, but I personally prefer to work with simple
SQL level schemae and python-level objects and classes i.e. not ORM
classes but ordinary classes that cll SQLAlchemy
select/update/delete/etc methods to manipulate the db.

For me the great strengths of SQLA are that it (1) talks to many
different backend DBs and (2) removes the need to write tediously quotes
SQL because I can write python expressions like the above that map
directly to SQL statements, and SQLA does all the quoting, conversion
etc. Reliably!

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

I sometimes wish that people would put a little more emphasis upon the
observance of the law than they do upon its enforcement. - Calvin Coolidge


From davidlujun at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 05:18:25 2011
From: davidlujun at gmail.com (David Lu)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:18:25 +0800
Subject: a qustion about import that really confuses me
Message-ID: <CAAmfJ3CvPnS40+WT3MH-b7B7XZ9UtvjBHM6FEYaxi6UmtSKRQg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, there.

I have two files:

a.py:

> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> print('in a')
> import b
>
> print('var')
> VAR = 1
>
> def p():
>     print('{}, {}'.format(VAR, id(VAR)))
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     VAR = -1
>     p()
>     b.p() # Where does this VAR come from?
>

b.py:

> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> print('in b')
> import a
>
> def p():
>     a.p()
>

I don't understand why there're two different VARs, which is supposed to
the same.
Is it a bug?
If I move the 'main' block to another file, everything works well.

c.py:

> # coding=UTF-8
> import a
> import b
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     a.VAR = -1
>     a.p()
>     b.p()
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 22 08:16:26 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:16:26 -0500
Subject: a qustion about import that really confuses me
In-Reply-To: <CAAmfJ3CvPnS40+WT3MH-b7B7XZ9UtvjBHM6FEYaxi6UmtSKRQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAmfJ3CvPnS40+WT3MH-b7B7XZ9UtvjBHM6FEYaxi6UmtSKRQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECBA0AA.9000800@davea.name>

On 11/22/2011 05:18 AM, David Lu wrote:
> Hi, there.
>
> I have two files:
>
> a.py:
>
>> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> print('in a')
>> import b
>>
>> print('var')
>> VAR = 1
>>
>> def p():
>>      print('{}, {}'.format(VAR, id(VAR)))
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>      VAR = -1
>>      p()
>>      b.p() # Where does this VAR come from?
>>
> b.py:
>
>> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> print('in b')
>> import a
>>
Right there is your problem.   You try to import a module that you've 
earlier used as the top-level script.  The top-level script gets a 
module name of "__main__" and this import is defining a module of "a".  
So you have two distinct modules from the same source file, as you've 
discovered.
>> def p():
>>      a.p()
>>
> I don't understand why there're two different VARs, which is supposed to
> the same.
> Is it a bug?
> If I move the 'main' block to another file, everything works well.
>
> c.py:
>
>> # coding=UTF-8
>> import a
>> import b
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>      a.VAR = -1
>>      a.p()
>>      b.p()
>>
More generally, you should avoid circular imports.  Other problems can 
occur, this is just the most blatant.   When you discover that two 
modules are using (importing) each other's resources. you should move as 
much code as necessary from one of them to a 3rd module, and both should 
import that one.

Similar problems appear in other languages, and the cure is generally 
the same.  Avoid circular dependencies.

Incidentally, using all uppercase for a name is a convention for 
constants.  Further, you explicitly request that VAR have different 
values when it's the top-level script than when it's an imported module, 
so the language is doing exactly what you request, even if not what you 
wanted.  You're lucky that the problem was so obvious.  Many mutual 
import problems are much more subtle.
-- 

DaveA



From loluengo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 09:15:37 2011
From: loluengo at gmail.com (Lorenzo)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:15:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
	<27174986.458.1321411879812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<Xns9FA3F0EC5DCBBOKB@88.198.244.100>
Message-ID: <70a4b790-b51b-4eb9-b487-07771895056c@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

> ? ? ? ? Very interesting. ?Is there a simple way to add third-party
> libraries to these? ?I assume that for pure-Python modules you could
> just put a python file in the appropriate place and import it, but what
> about if you wanted a web app that used numpy or something? ?Is that
> feasible?
>

I cannot imagine how slow can be a python interpreter in javascript
crunching numbers using numpy, and converting those numeric libraries
(ATLAS, LAPACK,MKL,ACML) to javascript.


From aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 09:54:05 2011
From: aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com (Tiaburn Stedd)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:54:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
References: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
	<10658976.1704.1321917568761.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqni5>
Message-ID: <4d86a69d-e737-41ea-8e23-a67351a67994@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>


Upvote this. Looks like a bug for me.

---------------- begin results ----------------------
Nov 22 16:47:45 lvaltp0521 [minitest: 021]:My log message:isn't it
special?
Nov 22 16:47:45 lvaltp0521 [minitest at 021]: My log message:isn't it
special?
---------------- end results ------------------------

~$ python --version
Python 2.6.6


From aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 10:19:59 2011
From: aleksandrs.zdancuks at gmail.com (Tiaburn Stedd)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:19:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Strange logging.Formatter behaviour
Message-ID: <b6c77fa2-8902-4e55-9389-6b9cd9fa7787@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

Hello, all!

I'm working on specific project and have a curious task where I need
to use specific formatter and custom handlers, which are switchable to
default handlers. Problem is that default handlers behaviour is to
consume errors, so errors raised from code have printed tracebacks,
but not passed outside logger, because of it silent behaviour.

Unit test for this is below:

import logging
import unittest

class SpecificFormatException(Exception):
    pass

class MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self, record):
       raise TypeError

class MyFormatter(logging.Formatter, object):
    def format(self, record):
        try:
            specific_format_record = MyClass(record)
        except TypeError:
            raise SpecificFormatException("Error raised")

class TestLogger(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_my_logger(self):
        self.logger = logging.getLogger(self.__class__.__name__)
        handler = logging.FileHandler('test_logger.log')
        handler.setFormatter(fmt=MyFormatter())
        self.logger.addHandler(handler)
        self.assertRaises(SpecificFormatException,
self.logger.warn,"Log something")

if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main()


I don't believe this behavior is normal. I expect error raised in a
Formatter.format function, should be passed all the way up, but not
consumed.

I found a workaround:

class CustomFileHandler(logging.FileHandler, object):
    def handleError(self, record):
         super(CustomFileHandler, self).handleError(record)
         raise

But it looks ugly to add Custom*Handler for any default Handler (like,
StreamHandler, etc) to make them possible to fall out on any error.

There are raiseException switch in source of logging/__init__.py

  92 #raiseExceptions is used to see if exceptions during handling
should be
  93 #propagated
  94 #
  95 raiseExceptions = 1

But all it switch is only is traceback printed or not. I think this
behaviour is against Zen of Python: "Errors should never pass
silently."

May be logging library should be updated to contain 2 flags:
printTracebacks and raiseExceptions ?


From bex.lewis at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 10:46:43 2011
From: bex.lewis at gmail.com (becky_lewis)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (don't bash me too hard) Python interpreter in JavaScript
References: <11816254.67.1321389423944.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbay19>
Message-ID: <39d7d689-6953-4ae5-84f5-83d44eb9fd39@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 8:37?pm, Passiday <passi... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a way how to bring Python interpreter to JavaScript, in order to provide a web-based application with python scripting capabilities. The app would have basic IDE for writing and debugging the python code, but the interpretation, of course, would be done in JavaScript. I'd like to avoid any client-server transactions, so all the interpretation should take place on the client side. The purpose of all this would be to create educational platform for learning the programming in python.
>
> I hoped somebody already had done something like this, but I couldn't google up anything. I've found some crazy project emulating PC in JavaScript (and even running Linux on top of it), but not a python interpreter.
>
> Of course, I could take the python source and brutally recode it in JavaScript, but that seems like awful lot of work to do. Any ideas how I should proceed with this project?

I think you may find it a little time consuming to reimpliment python
in javascript. I'm inclined to say "go for it" though since you may
create something awesome in the process ;)

If you want to take an easier route, may I point out
pythonanywhere.com? It doesn't run in the browser but does give safe
access to multiple python interpreters and from my own use I can say
that it works pretty well. You can even set up web apps using it. For
educational purposes it might be helpful to you.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 10:57:30 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:30 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaggpe$lj9$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/21/2011 11:21 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:39:37 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
>> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. So far no response on
>> this has solved the problem.
>>
>> I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.
>>
> 	I have three computers here:
>
> -=-=-=-=-=- Desktop
> WinXP Pro 32-bit, 3.4GHz hyper-threaded P4
> ActiveState ActivePython 2.5.2.2 (Python 2.5.2)

All of the above use ActiveState. I use whatever the Python organization 
provides on their download site. I would not expect the two to compare.

>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> So, out of two generations of 32-bit Python 2.5, and 64 and 32 bit
> versions of Python 2.7, on three computers, NONE of mine have a
> right-click option for IDLE.
>
>> I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used,
>> nothing happens.  Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon
>> spins around then zip, nothing.  Further, right-clicking on Properties
>> of IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog.  It shows Start in:
>> c:\Python32\, and None for shortcut.  There is a compatibility tab,
>
> 	But what does it show for TARGET!

c:\Python32 Start in, and for Target: Python 3.2.2 (64-bit)
For the shortcut C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start 
Menu\Programs\Python3.2

>
>> Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon.
>> At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I
>> tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".
>>
> 	Possibly because you are trying to start a 32-bit version with a
> default "open" for .pyw files that runs the 64-bit Python.exe; so the
> DLLs are mixed architecture.
3.2.2 is 64-bit.
>
>
>> Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to
>> play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem.  My PC
>> behaves normally
>>
> 	Since none of your problems appear to be related to Python itself,
> but rather to the Windows configuration of the Python system, I'd have
> to disagree.
>
>> I'm using Win 7 Premium.
>
> 	Home, Pro, Ultimate (or whatever the top level is?



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 11:12:13 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:12:13 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2937.1321916900.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2937.1321916900.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaghl0$rj9$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/21/2011 3:07 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 11:39 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
>> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file.
>
> Your first criterion for success should be that IDLE runs at all, which
> is apparently does not. How you run it is secondary.
>
> Right-click responses are controlled by Windows using data in the
> registry. Windows modifies the registry in response to installers *and
> users*. The ActiveState installers request 'Edit with PythonWin'. They
> do not request 'Edit with IDLE' and it is foolish to complain to us when
> you use ActiveState and get their choice of context choices.

ActiveState. Am I missing something? I'm running 64-bit Python 
downloaded from the Python organization's web site.l

>
> The PSF .msi installers (.msi = MicroSoftInstall format) from python.org
> request 'Edit with IDLE' but cannot make Windows put it in. If your
> registry is messed up enough, it does not happen. But no error message.
>
> I have explained to you another way to work with IDLE once it runs. It
> you refuse to use it, that is your problem, not ours.
>
>> I know it sets up that way on a 2.5 and 2.4 on other PCs I have.
>
> You installed with the PSF installer with an ok registry.

PSF? What does "ok registry" mean?

>
>> I know at one time it worked on my 64-bit Win 7 PC, which likely had a
>> 32-bit version installed on it. After something like six months of
>> modest use it stopped working as above. No IDLE choice.
>
> So some *other* program messed things up. Stop blaming us.
> Heavy or modest use in the meantime is irrelevant.
I'm blaming you??? I was just providing data for whatever it might be 
worth. I'm also suggesting that I do not have years of experience with 
Python.
>
>> I know by installing a 64-bit version, 3.2.2 failed the IDLE criterions
>> as described. No IDLE.
>
> Did you uninstall the 32 bit version, and best, all Python versions?
>
>> I do know that IDLE appears on the Win 7 Start menu, but, when used,
>> nothing happens. Well, OK, for about 3 seconds the Win 7 "working" icon
>> spins around then zip, nothing.
>
> This is your real problem. Stop worrying about the context menu.

I would expect consistency through all Python org releases. Should I put 
consistency in really bold letters with a 30 point font? :-)

>
>  > Further, right-clicking on Properties of
>> IDLE (GUI) produces a tabbed dialog. It shows Start in: c:\Python32\,
>
> This is the Shortcut tab. A shortcut is like a bound method. The
> function is the target: 'python 3.2.2 (64 bit)' on my machine. The
> starting directory is like a bound argument, although it is passed to
> the launcher that launches the function. What the Properties dialog does
> not show are the actual 'bound arguments' that are passed to the target
> as options. So one cannot know what the shortcut is actually trying to
> do. This is one of the Really Stupid things about Windows that should
> have been fixed long ago but has not.

I never use the shortcut on the Start menu. I mentioned the Start menu, 
since it might have some relevance.

>
>> and None for shortcut.
>
> None for Shortcut key, such as alt-I to invoke the shortcut.
>
>> There is a compatibility tab, which I've set to
>> Win7. I think there's a troubleshooter there too, but I haven't used it.
>> Under the Details tab, it shows Name: IDLE(Python Gui).lnk. Folder Path
>> as: c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start... Nothing after the "...".
>
> Details: Folder Path is the same as General: Location. Mouse over the
> latter the the full path appears. That Properties windows are still
> fixed at 480 pixel wide, regardless of screen size, is another Really
> Stupid thing.

Yes, I finally realized I could mouse over it.

>
>> Going directly to ...\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw produces the spinning icon.
>> At least, that's what happens in 3.2.2, but in the 32-bit versions I
>> tried, I would get "invalid Win 32 app".
>
> If the registry entry for .pyw is messed up, trying to run the file by
> clicking on it is not likely to work. Try running from Command Prompt,
> as I believe others suggested.

I'm not trying to run the program, I'm trying to edit. Several times in 
these threads I've mentioned I can execute python from the command line.

>
>> When I rebooted my system a few hours after installing 3.2.2, because
>> the PC was running really slowly--not because of Python, I was greeted
>> by a couple of interesting messages as the desktop was populated.
>>
>> I can execute Python from the command line.
>>
>> 1. Specified module could not be found: Load Lib, python.dll.
>>
>> 2. \ProgramFiles(x86)\uniblueDrivers\Scanner (x86) Python26.dll.
>
> The uniblue drivers program will match your drivers against a database
> of up-to-date drivers and offer to upgrade them. I have used uniblue's
> registry scanner program. Treating pythonxy.dll as a driver, if they
> are, is an error. These are paid programs. The free demos only scan to
> tell you what they would do if you bought them.

Yes. Just Winamp looking for $$$.

>
>  > I'm sure this is related to Winamp, which I had installed a month ago.
>
> I do not believe they are the same companies, but they may have a
> cross-promotion deal.
Evidently.
>
>> had some "crazy" choice to scan for new drivers. Of course, if it found
>> one-connected with Python, and if you wanted it, $$$. I think this
>> message is a red herring. I may re-install Winamp to get rid of that
>> uniblue tool that seems like nothing more than an ad.
>>
>> Some have suggested a registry problem, but I don't have a clue how to
>> play with that, or somehow clean it up, if there is a problem. My PC
>> behaves normally
>
> If you ran the psf 3.2.2 installer and idle does not run when you click
> the start menu shortcut, something is wrong.
Of course. Assuming psf means something like python software foundation.
>
>> Someone suggested using the mail list at
>> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>. What's different
>> about that list than this NG? Does the "org" suggest that the
>> inhabitants of that list are more likely associated with the people who
>> are responsible for constructing Python?
>
> Python list is mirror to comp.lang.python which is mirrored to a google
> group. It is also mirrored to gmane.comp.python, which is how I read and
> post. There is some spam filtering if you use the python.org list or
> gmane group.
>
Good. Then I don't need it.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 11:14:16 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:14:16 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/21/2011 7:00 PM, alex23 wrote:
> "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> Comments?
>
> Please don't start multiple threads on the same issue.
Your joking, right, or do you just prefer 500 line threads wandering all 
over the place?


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov 22 11:21:10 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:21:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Strange logging.Formatter behaviour
References: <b6c77fa2-8902-4e55-9389-6b9cd9fa7787@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bd0ef581-0743-4fd2-8fc2-ad647865f8ff@h3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 22, 3:19?pm, Tiaburn Stedd <aleksandrs.zdanc... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't believe this behavior is normal. I expect error raised in a
> Formatter.format function, should be passed all the way up, but not
> consumed.
>
> I found a workaround:
>
> class CustomFileHandler(logging.FileHandler, object):
> ? ? def handleError(self, record):
> ? ? ? ? ?super(CustomFileHandler, self).handleError(record)
> ? ? ? ? ?raise
>
> But it looks ugly to add Custom*Handler for any default Handler (like,
> StreamHandler, etc) to make them possible to fall out on any error.
>
> There are raiseException switch in source of logging/__init__.py
>
> ? 92 #raiseExceptions is used to see if exceptions during handling
> should be
> ? 93 #propagated
> ? 94 #
> ? 95 raiseExceptions = 1
>
> But all it switch is only is traceback printed or not. I think this
> behaviour is against Zen of Python: "Errors should never pass
> silently."

They don't pass silently - raiseExceptions defaults to 1, so
tracebacks are printed by default. In production, it's not a good idea
for a potentially long-running process like a server to be brought
down because someone put a typo in a logging format string, so the
recommendation is to set raiseExceptions to 0/False in such scenarios.

Since you are developing a custom formatter, you can certainly catch
any formatting exceptions in your format method and decide what you
want to do with them.

The default handleError behaviour of printing a traceback is
reasonable, in my view. If you want something else, you can subclass
the relevant handler class; just setting a printTracebacks flag to
false isn't going to get useful behaviour specific to individual
requirements.

There's no real point in throwing a very specific exception from a
formatter, as a handler isn't going to automatically know how to
handle a SpecificFormatException in any meaningful way. Remember that
in the general case, application developers don't always have control
of what handlers are configured for an application (for example, this
could be set by end-user or per-deployment configuration).

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Nov 22 12:03:42 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24059779.511.1321981422154.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prou19>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44:34 PM UTC+8, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
> executed, every time I call
> a nested function:
> 
> def dec(fn):
>      print("In decorator")
>      def _dec():
>          fn()
> 
>      return _dec
> 
> def nested():
>      @dec
>      def fun():
>          print("here")
> 
> nested()
> nested()
> 
> Will give:
> In decorator
> In decorator
> 
> So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
> somehow?
> I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)

I love to use decorators. I did the same things to  functions and structures in c long time ago. I think that  might be  the dark night era in  programming  in the early 90's long long ago. 

Cheers.   


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Nov 22 12:03:42 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: decorators and closures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2903.1321886678.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24059779.511.1321981422154.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prou19>

On Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44:34 PM UTC+8, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> With one colleague I discovered that the decorator code is always 
> executed, every time I call
> a nested function:
> 
> def dec(fn):
>      print("In decorator")
>      def _dec():
>          fn()
> 
>      return _dec
> 
> def nested():
>      @dec
>      def fun():
>          print("here")
> 
> nested()
> nested()
> 
> Will give:
> In decorator
> In decorator
> 
> So we were wondering, would the interpreter be able to optimize this 
> somehow?
> I was betting it's not possible, but I'm I would like to be wrong :)

I love to use decorators. I did the same things to  functions and structures in c long time ago. I think that  might be  the dark night era in  programming  in the early 90's long long ago. 

Cheers.   


From RDRichardson at rad-con.com  Tue Nov 22 13:32:53 2011
From: RDRichardson at rad-con.com (Rob Richardson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:32:53 +0000
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
Message-ID: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD0A5@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>

Greetings!

My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

Thank you.

RobR


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 13:37:32 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:37:32 -0500
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECBEBEC.2010300@yahoo.com>

On 11/20/2011 7:46 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. ...

I have great respect for people who take on projects like this.

Your chances of popularizing the language are small.  There must be 
thousands of projects like this for every one that gets adopted by other 
people.  However your chances of learning a great deal are large, 
including many things that you'll be able to apply to programs and 
projects that, at first glance, wouldn't appear to benefit from this 
kind of experience.  If you get it working you'll have an impressive 
item to add to your resume.

I suspect that you'll also have a lot of fun.

Good luck with it.

     Alan


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 13:55:22 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:55:22 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>

On 11/21/2011 11:39 AM, W. eWatson wrote:

> My criterion for success is that it puts IDLE as a choice for editor on
> the menu produced with a right-click on a py file. So far no response on
> this has solved the problem.  ...

I don't know what responses you're referring to since this is the first 
posting in the thread.  It's possible what I'm about to say was already 
told to you - in which case I'm wasting my and everyone's time.

However, leaving that aside, I think that this is trivially easy to 
solve.  It has nothing whatever to do with Python or Idle - though it's 
possible that the Python installer could have done something for that it 
didn't - and it's also possible that the Python installer did what you 
told it to do but you told it the wrong thing, or you told Windows to 
change it without realizing that you did.  (I do that all the time.  A 
mouse slip and inadvertent click on the wrong object, a misunderstanding 
of a prompt, or lots of other missteps can change things without your 
having any idea what happened.)

Anyway, if I understand what you're looking for, here's what you need to 
do to fix your problem:

1. Open Windows Explorer.

2. Navigate to a Python file.

3. Right click on the Python file with the mouse.

4. Select "Open With"

5. Select "Choose Default Program"

6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.

7. Check the box that says "Always use the selected program to open this 
kind of file."

8. Click "OK".

The prompts I described above are the ones I saw on my Windows Server 
2008 machine.  Yours may vary slightly, but I think the procedures 
should be the same.

Please let us know if that solves your problem.

     Alan


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 14:15:47 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:15:47 +0000
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECBF4E3.9000007@gmail.com>

On 11/22/2011 04:14 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Your joking, right, or do you just prefer 500 line threads wandering
> all over the place?

I would personally prefer to just not see useless discussions about
Windows set up in a python mailing list,
but I guess it's a price to pay for the popularity of Python..


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 14:29:18 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:29:18 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>

On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
...
> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
...
On my system that's
   C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe

Alan


From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Tue Nov 22 14:41:00 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:41:00 +0100
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 22-11-11 19:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

The logging module from Python's stdlib?
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.html

Irmen




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 22 17:50:35 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:50:35 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jago24$7bs$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaggpe$lj9$1@dont-email.me> <jago24$7bs$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jah90a$7jj$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/22/2011 1:01 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>> c:\Python32 Start in, and for Target: Python 3.2.2 (64-bit)
>
> 	Which tells me that the TARGET field is garbaged,

The above is exactly what my IDLE shortcut target field says, and it 
works fine.

> since THAT is what specifies the program (and arguments)
 > that has to be run when the shortcut is double-clicked.

It would be nice if it DID show all that info.

> Try editing the target field to read (presuming the 3.x branch of
> Python keeps the same library structure):
>
> c:\python32\lib\idlelib\idle.bat
>
> save the change, and then select the short-cut to see if it runs.

Target for the .msi created shortcut cannot be edited, even as admin.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 22:29:57 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:29:57 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/22/2011 11:29 AM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> ...
>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
> ...
> On my system that's
> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>
> Alan
OK, I'm going to try it soon. Keeping my fingers crossed.


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 22:45:41 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:45:41 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2955.1321992362.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2955.1321992362.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ECC6C65.2090902@yahoo.com>

On 11/22/2011 3:05 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:29:18 -0500, Alan Meyer<ameyer2 at yahoo.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>> ...
>>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
>> ...
>> On my system that's
>>     C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>>
> 	Note that this is not the Tk based IDLE (which is implemented,
> itself, as a .pyw file and is not natively executable -- which seems to
> be one of the problems; Win7 has removed the detailed file type
> association windows so you can't specify that the "application" is
> pythonw.exe running idle.pyw using one's selected file as the argument
> to the mess).

Bummer!

Sorry W.eWatson, my instructions may not work.  I've got the ActiveState 
Python on my Windows machine.  It runs a .exe file as the IDLE 
executable.  If your implementation doesn't have an exe then you're 
going to have to do some more complex work.

Since I don't have the version of Python from python.org under Windows, 
I can't really advise on what to do with that.  If you haven't got an 
exe, my instructions will only work if you install the ActiveState 
version, which does have one.

     Alan


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Nov 22 22:46:01 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:46:01 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/22/2011 7:29 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/22/2011 11:29 AM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>> ...
>>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
>> ...
>> On my system that's
>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>>
>> Alan
> OK, I'm going to try it soon. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Well, all there was there was a README.txt file that told me the purpose 
of the folder.
"This directory exists so that 3rd party packages can be installed
here.  Read the source for site.py for more details."

Of course, Dennis'
C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
wouldn't work either.

I did a Win 7 search Pythonwin.exe, and found nothing. However, 
sometimes that search fails even when though there is something on the 
PC that matches the search.

There is a pythonw.exe under C:\Python32.


From snorble at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 00:19:21 2011
From: snorble at hotmail.com (snorble)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:19:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
Message-ID: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Sometimes I want to prototype a program in Python, with the idea of
optimizing it later by rewriting parts of it in C or Cython. But I
usually find that in order to rewrite the slow parts, I end up writing
those parts very much like C or C++ anyway, and I end up wondering
what is the point of using Python in such a project.

I liked the idea of Cython, mainly the idea of being able to write in
pure Python, then create a file that modifies the pure Python file
(with type declarations and such), but I ran into the same problems.
In order to be able to modify the code, I can't make a lot of use of
the really helpful things in Python like dicts and such. I have to
dumb down Python to where I'm basically writing C code in Python, so
again I ask myself what is the point?

Is it reasonable to prototype an application in Python that will
require performance? Are there any recommendations on how to write
code in such a way that it can later be optimized or replaced with a
module written in C or Cython? Or any good examples of this being done
that I could learn from?


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Wed Nov 23 00:44:50 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:44:50 -0500
Subject: Thread problem
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D616@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Howdy All,

Please see http://pastebin.com/GuwH8B5C .
Its a sample program implementing progressbar in multithreaded program.
Here I am creating a thread and passing update2() function to it.

Now wheneever I press CTRL-C, the program isnt returning to prompt. !

Can someone help me out with this please. !

Thanks
Nikunj
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 01:45:07 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:45:07 +1100
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
In-Reply-To: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp-H22fO5RxLQ-SrK8N1=WtZO_oH4kYKOeGmm2t2-Rqfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:19 PM, snorble <snorble at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sometimes I want to prototype a program in Python, with the idea of
> optimizing it later by rewriting parts of it in C or Cython. But I
> usually find that in order to rewrite the slow parts, I end up writing
> those parts very much like C or C++ anyway, and I end up wondering
> what is the point of using Python in such a project.

There's a few ways to prototype. If you use Python as the language of
your specs documents (or pseudo-Python, perhaps) - consider the entire
Python implementation as ephemeral, and use it to verify that your
specifications are correct, but not for any sort of performance - then
it doesn't matter that you've rewritten it completely, nor that you've
written C code in Python. You would have been writing C code in
English otherwise, anyway.

If you're not sure which parts you're prototyping (ie will rewrite in
C/C++) and which parts you're writing properly (ie will keep the
Python version as the production code), I'd still recommend using all
of Python's best features... but keep your function docstrings
comprehensive. When you rewrite it in C, you're able to take advantage
of what you learned first time around, but otherwise it's just
strictly reimplementing the docstring in a different environment.

Chris Angelico


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 01:48:19 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:48:19 -0600
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
	withregard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com><4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me><jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019677F1@mail.sunedison.com>

I just subscribed for python and I am VERY NEW. I would like to have a
an IDLE. My texts are just the same whether it is comment or def or
statement or ...... how am I going to make it highlighted ..my
scientific package is not working and complaining about not able to
find/load DLL ... frustrating for the first day in the python world. ANY
tip ?

Thanks

Alemu

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Dennis Lee Bieber
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:43 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
withregard to IDLE.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:46:01 -0800, "W. eWatson"
<wolftracks at invalid.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> 
> Of course, Dennis'
> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
> wouldn't work either.
>
	If you didn't install an ActiveState packaged version, nor hand
installed the win32 extension package into a Python.org installed
system, you won't have PythonWin.
 
> I did a Win 7 search Pythonwin.exe, and found nothing. However, 
> sometimes that search fails even when though there is something on the

> PC that matches the search.
> 
> There is a pythonw.exe under C:\Python32.

	And has been mentioned at least three times in the last week --
pythonw.exe is the version of the Python interpreter that is supposed to
be the default application for .pyw files. It is the version that does
NOT open a console window for stdin/stdout (IOWs, it is meant for use by
Python scripts that use a graphical library for all I/O -- Tk, wxPython,
etc.). If you ran a graphical script using the plain python.exe it would
open a console window that would just sit there until the script exited.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Nov 23 02:37:53 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:37:53 +0100
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
In-Reply-To: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jai7sj$nvk$1@dough.gmane.org>

snorble, 23.11.2011 06:19:
> Sometimes I want to prototype a program in Python, with the idea of
> optimizing it later by rewriting parts of it in C or Cython. But I
> usually find that in order to rewrite the slow parts, I end up writing
> those parts very much like C or C++ anyway, and I end up wondering
> what is the point of using Python in such a project.
>
> I liked the idea of Cython, mainly the idea of being able to write in
> pure Python, then create a file that modifies the pure Python file
> (with type declarations and such), but I ran into the same problems.
> In order to be able to modify the code, I can't make a lot of use of
> the really helpful things in Python like dicts and such. I have to
> dumb down Python to where I'm basically writing C code in Python, so
> again I ask myself what is the point?
>
> Is it reasonable to prototype an application in Python that will
> require performance? Are there any recommendations on how to write
> code in such a way that it can later be optimized or replaced with a
> module written in C or Cython?

I think the usual approach is to write it in Python and make sure it works 
by writing "enough" tests, then benchmark it, then decide if a non-Python 
level optimisation is required.

If it's required, Cython compile the entire module and add static types to 
your hot spots, either in Python notation ("pure mode") or in an external 
.pxd file. If that doesn't yield enough performance, copy code into a 
separate Cython module and optimise it there using C paradigms instead of 
Python paradigms, i.e. apply algorithmic optimisations by dropping data 
structures into C. Then use an import to use the code from your so-called 
accelerator module in your original module. Try to provide both a pure 
Python implementation and a Cython implementation, as that will allow you 
to run your code in other Python implementations directly and to compare 
your two implementations for equivalence and performance.

The advantage of stepping down into C-ish Cython code incrementally is that 
you will have a working implementation at each step and can decide to stop 
optimising because it is "good enough". If you started 'optimising' your 
code while still writing it, it will take longer to write it and you can 
never be sure that the complexity you add to the long-term maintenance by 
writing C-ish code is truly worth the performance gain (or if there even is 
any gain).

Stefan



From as at sci.fi  Wed Nov 23 04:19:14 2011
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:19:14 +0200
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on Win7 and IDLE (Try it)
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> One thing I think no one has offered is whether their installation of
> 2.7.2 has the same IDLE oddity that I've described.  That is, if you
> right-click on a py file, do you see a choice for the IDLE editor?

I don't have 2.7.2, but my Windows (7, 32 bit) machine has 3.2 installed
and also 2.6.6 included in Python(x,y) distribution.

Right clicking on a .py has, under Open with, the choices GNU
Emacsclient (my choice for editing), python.exe and pythonw.exe. No
Idle.

I was able to add idle to the menu it by clicking "Choose default
program" in the menu and pointing that to idle.bat.


From as at sci.fi  Wed Nov 23 04:23:19 2011
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:23:19 +0200
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>

goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:

> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?

Is there a shell that doesn't have history then? At least both the
vanilla shell and Idle both have basic history in Windows. IPython for
more fun.


From r32813 at freescale.com  Wed Nov 23 04:54:22 2011
From: r32813 at freescale.com (Wong Wah Meng-R32813)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:54:22 +0000
Subject: import _tclinter error in python 2.7.1 Itanium build
Message-ID: <02EA6D704E30CE499C5071776509A925F9DC74@039-SN1MPN1-002.039d.mgd.msft.net>

Hello there,

I am in the midst of converting my application code from python 1.5.2 to python 2.7.1.

In the build of my python 2.7.1 on Itanium 64-bit HP11.3 platform, I noticed my Tkinter module was built and linked successfully, that I am able to import the module and use it. However, I just found out that my application that utilizes Tcl/Tk code, somehow wants to use _tclinter, instead of using _tkinter (In fact I have a Tkinter.py file) . The only comment I can see from the author is "Have Pic use Tclinter instead of Tkinter to allow Pic to start with a valid  X Display". That comment was left at the time python 1.5.2 and tcl/tk 8.1 (maybe) was used and I am not sure if the same issue is applicable to the current version of python and tcl/tk.

However, the question I want to ask is, I build python when tcl/tk files are both available, why only tk is detected and built-in with python, not tcl?


$ python
Python 2.7.1 (r271:86832, Oct  6 2011, 11:10:10) [C] on hp-ux11
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Tkinter
>>> import Tclinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "Tclinter.py", line 5, in <module>
    import _tclinter # If this fails your Python is not configured for Tcl
ImportError: No module named _tclinter
>>> import _tclinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named _tclinter
>>> import _tkinter
>>>

Regards,
Wah Meng

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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 05:29:28 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Nov 2011 10:29:28 GMT
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:23:19 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:

> goldtech <goldtech at worldpost.com> writes:
> 
>> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
>> commands?
> 
> Is there a shell that doesn't have history then? At least both the
> vanilla shell and Idle both have basic history in Windows. IPython for
> more fun.

The default interactive interpreter for Python doesn't have persistent 
history, so if you exit the interpreter and restart it, your commands are 
gone.


-- 
Steven


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Nov 23 05:37:56 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ECCCD04.1060408@timgolden.me.uk>

On 23/11/2011 10:29, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:23:19 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:
>
>> goldtech<goldtech at worldpost.com>  writes:
>>
>>> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
>>> commands?
>>
>> Is there a shell that doesn't have history then? At least both the
>> vanilla shell and Idle both have basic history in Windows. IPython for
>> more fun.
>
> The default interactive interpreter for Python doesn't have persistent
> history, so if you exit the interpreter and restart it, your commands are
> gone.

Not quite

The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function:
Open a cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.

Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window.
Do some random cmd stuff: dir, cd, etc.

Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back
the previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you
entered in the surrounding shell)

Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd session
persists -- if you simply start Python from Start > Run
twice the command history will not persist between sessions.

TJG


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Subject: WORLD BEST PICS
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From python at bdurham.com  Wed Nov 23 07:11:16 2011
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:11:16 -0500
Subject: Choosing a Windows C compiler for use with Cython and 32-bit Python
	2.7
Message-ID: <1322050276.28050.140661002645593@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Looking for some tips on getting started with Cython development
under Windows. I am using Python 2.7.2.

After reading the Cython documentation [1] it appears that one
has a choice of using either the MinGW or MS Visual C compiler.

1. Are there any issues associated with using the MinGW compiler
and mixing C runtimes? This seems the be the simplest and fastest
way to get started with the tradeoff being the need to distribute
another C runtime (in addition to the MS C runtime required for
the Python interpreter itself)

2. Regarding the MS Visual C compiler - can one use the C
compiler that ships with one of the free Express editions of
Visual Studio or must one purchase a full version of MS Visual
Studio to get the appropriate compiler?

3. Which version (2005, 2008, 2010, ...) of MS Visual Studio is
required to compile Cython libraries compatible with the 32 bit
version of Python 2.7.2?

Thank you,
Malcolm

[1] http://docs.cython.org/src/quickstart/install.html
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From as at sci.fi  Wed Nov 23 07:16:52 2011
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:16:52 +0200
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2930.1321903307.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaggpe$lj9$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2952.1321984915.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg34nxvdoej.fsf@sci.fi>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

>> c:\Python32 Start in, and for Target: Python 3.2.2 (64-bit)
>
> 	Which tells me that the TARGET field is garbaged, since THAT is what
> specifies the program (and arguments) that has to be run when the
> shortcut is double-clicked.

Actually, no, it's what I have too. 32-bit Windows 7 here and Python
3.2. The Target for the Idle shortcut is just Python 3.2. It's also
greyed out and uneditable.

So yes, weird. Mine works though and I rarely use Idle, so no
complaints.


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 23 07:27:46 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:27:46 +0100
Subject: Choosing a Windows C compiler for use with Cython and 32-bit
	Python 2.7
In-Reply-To: <1322050276.28050.140661002645593@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1322050276.28050.140661002645593@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <jaios2$f13$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 23.11.2011 13:11, schrieb python at bdurham.com:
> Looking for some tips on getting started with Cython development
> under Windows. I am using Python 2.7.2.
> 
> After reading the Cython documentation [1] it appears that one
> has a choice of using either the MinGW or MS Visual C compiler.
> 
> 1. Are there any issues associated with using the MinGW compiler
> and mixing C runtimes? This seems the be the simplest and fastest
> way to get started with the tradeoff being the need to distribute
> another C runtime (in addition to the MS C runtime required for
> the Python interpreter itself)

No, don't worry. MinGW from msys can link against almost any C runtime
library.

> 2. Regarding the MS Visual C compiler - can one use the C
> compiler that ships with one of the free Express editions of
> Visual Studio or must one purchase a full version of MS Visual
> Studio to get the appropriate compiler?
> 
> 3. Which version (2005, 2008, 2010, ...) of MS Visual Studio is
> required to compile Cython libraries compatible with the 32 bit
> version of Python 2.7.2?

I've explained everything in PCbuild/readme.txt in great detail.
Summary: You can use the free VS 2088 Express Edition if you don't need
PGO or AMD64 builds.

Christian



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Nov 23 07:54:16 2011
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Peculiarity of '@' in logging.Formatter
References: <29760946.94.1321917425036.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>
Message-ID: <92b117a3-21b6-46ae-9063-00d85a8d3ff8@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 11:17?pm, Charlie Martin <chasrmar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is what seems like an odd bug, but in code I'd
> thing often-enough used it must be the expected behavior
> and I just don't understand. ?Please, sirs/mesdames, is
> this a bug?

It may be a bug, but if so, it's in the syslog daemon rather than
logging. Please try again with FileHandlers in place of
SysLogHandlers, and confirm whether the anomaly still occurs.

I could reproduce the problem on a Suse 11.3 machine running Python
2.6, but it doesn't occur on Ubuntu for example:

Nov 23 12:33:09 eta-jaunty [slhtest3:026]:My log message:isn't it
special?
Nov 23 12:33:09 eta-jaunty [slhtest3 at 026]:My log message:isn't it
special?

I get the same (expected) result on Ubuntu for both Python 2.6 and
2.7.

I noticed that on Suse the syslog daemon is rsyslogd, whereas on
Ubuntu it's plain syslogd. Daemons do differ on how they parse
messages :-(

I ran the script with strace, and logging is writing correctly to the
socket:

socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_DGRAM, 0)          = 3
connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/dev/log"}, 10) = 0
socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_DGRAM, 0)          = 4
connect(4, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/dev/log"}, 10) = 0
gettimeofday({1322052499, 78501}, NULL) = 0
send(3, "<14>[slhtest:026]:My log message"..., 51, 0) = 51
send(4, "<14>[slhtest at 026]:My log message"..., 51, 0) = 51
close(4)                                = 0
close(3)                                = 0

This is on Suse 11.3, where the formatting anomaly does occur - so it
appears to be down to how rsyslogd does things.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 08:31:57 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:31:57 -0500
Subject: Writing code to be optimizable
References: <63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-7246E0.08315723112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<63e78437-c76b-4a9e-9a62-bfea8d078208 at v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
 snorble <snorble at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Is it reasonable to prototype an application in Python that will
> require performance?

Yes.  Several observations:

1) The classic 80/20 rule.  80% of the time is spent running 20% of the 
code.  Sometimes quoted as 90/10.  Why waste time optimizing the 80%?

2) Surprisingly to many people, it's difficult to predict in advance 
which 20% will be the slow parts.  Don't sweat it until the whole thing 
is up and running and you can begin to gather profiling data.

3) Often enough, when you're done writing your program, you'll discover 
that it's fast enough to get value from.  Be happy and move onto the 
next task on your list.

> Are there any recommendations on how to write code in such a way that 
> it can later be optimized or replaced with a module written in C or 
> Cython?

Sure.  Make your code modular and loosely coupled.  Each module or class 
should do one thing, and have narrow, well-defined interfaces.  Limit 
the number of other modules or classes it interacts with directly.  If 
you've done that, it becomes easier to a) identify the slow parts and b) 
plug something better in its place.


From RDRichardson at rad-con.com  Wed Nov 23 09:07:34 2011
From: RDRichardson at rad-con.com (Rob Richardson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:07:34 +0000
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD182@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>

Thank you for that link.

Our customers are used to the rotating log file capability of the log4py package.  I did not see anything in that link that talks about rotating log files (changing file name when the date changes, and saving a limited number of old log files).  Is that possible using the stdlib logging package?  Is there something else available that will do that, so we don't have to roll our own (or, more likely, stick to Python 2.7, for which log4py works)?

Thanks again!

RobR

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Irmen de Jong
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:41 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?

On 22-11-11 19:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

The logging module from Python's stdlib?
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.html

Irmen

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+rob.richardson=rad-con.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Irmen de Jong
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:41 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?

On 22-11-11 19:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

The logging module from Python's stdlib?
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.html

Irmen


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 23 09:18:26 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:18:26 +0100
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD182@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
Message-ID: <jaivb9$uth$1@dough.gmane.org>

Rob Richardson wrote:

> Our customers are used to the rotating log file capability of the log4py
> package.  I did not see anything in that link that talks about rotating
> log files (changing file name when the date changes, and saving a limited
> number of old log files).  Is that possible using the stdlib logging
> package?  

How about

http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.handlers.html#timedrotatingfilehandler




From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 10:06:33 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:06:33 +1100
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <jaivb9$uth$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2953.1321986769.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecbfacc$0$6859$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD182@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
	<jaivb9$uth$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGcLUf5HFt15MDXrOr43c-JHqU_k2JDksSCWZiADVjzr2Q@mail.gmail.com>

zing!

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:18 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Rob Richardson wrote:
>
>> Our customers are used to the rotating log file capability of the log4py
>> package. ?I did not see anything in that link that talks about rotating
>> log files (changing file name when the date changes, and saving a limited
>> number of old log files). ?Is that possible using the stdlib logging
>> package?
>
> How about
>
> http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/logging.handlers.html#timedrotatingfilehandler
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 10:40:46 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:40:46 -0600
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
In-Reply-To: <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me> <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>


Dear All,

I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
changes everything to just black and white after saving. No color for
say the built in functions for loops defs .... they all look the same -
it is annoying for someone coming from another editors that help you
track/easily see your work. I just un installed it to install it again.
I know it is pain to install all the scientific things again. I wish
Python has something like R (R-studio) from which you can install
packages very easily. I just started yesterday and already frustrated
with it. I am sticking to python only because I hear good things about
it and I think it is my problem.

Thank you all

Alemu
    


From gordon at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 11:08:12 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:08:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
	withregard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com><4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me><jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaj5pc$kld$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list at python.org> "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse at sunedison.com> writes:

> scientific package is not working and complaining about not able to
> find/load DLL ... frustrating for the first day in the python world. ANY
> tip ?

Post the exact error message you're getting.  Also post your code, if it's
not too long.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gordon at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 11:11:25 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:11:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me> <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
	<mailman.2973.1322062878.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaj5vd$kld$2@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2973.1322062878.27778.python-list at python.org> "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse at sunedison.com> writes:

> I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
> changes everything to just black and white after saving. No color for

What editor are you using?  There are quite a lot of them.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From massi_srb at msn.com  Wed Nov 23 12:10:09 2011
From: massi_srb at msn.com (Massi)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:10:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
Message-ID: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:

This is an 'example string'

to the following vector:

["This", "is", "an", "example string"]

Which is the best way to achieve this?
Thanks in advance!


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 12:31:21 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:31:21 -0600
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B01967924@mail.sunedison.com>


Hi Everyone,

Can we use rsplit function on an array or vector of strings ? it works
for one not for vector

Alemu


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Massi
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:10 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: String splitting by spaces question

Hi everyone,

I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:

This is an 'example string'

to the following vector:

["This", "is", "an", "example string"]

Which is the best way to achieve this?
Thanks in advance!
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Nov 23 12:33:55 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:33:55 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/22/2011 10:43 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:46:01 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks at invalid.com>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> Of course, Dennis'
>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>> wouldn't work either.
>>
> 	If you didn't install an ActiveState packaged version, nor hand
> installed the win32 extension package into a Python.org installed
> system, you won't have PythonWin.
>
>> I did a Win 7 search Pythonwin.exe, and found nothing. However,
>> sometimes that search fails even when though there is something on the
>> PC that matches the search.
>>
>> There is a pythonw.exe under C:\Python32.
>
> 	And has been mentioned at least three times in the last week --
> pythonw.exe is the version of the Python interpreter that is supposed to
> be the default application for .pyw files. It is the version that does
> NOT open a console window for stdin/stdout (IOWs, it is meant for use by
> Python scripts that use a graphical library for all I/O -- Tk, wxPython,
> etc.). If you ran a graphical script using the plain python.exe it would
> open a console window that would just sit there until the script exited.
Glad to hear you're keeping count. :-) I'll pin it on my wall. Don't use 
graphics.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Nov 23 12:35:04 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:35:04 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7
	withregard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jaj5pc$kld$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com><4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me><jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<jai4mf$6be$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaj5pc$kld$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jajasb$6jj$2@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 8:08 AM, John Gordon wrote:
> In<mailman.2962.1322031180.27778.python-list at python.org>  "Alemu Tadesse"<atadesse at sunedison.com>  writes:
>
>> scientific package is not working and complaining about not able to
>> find/load DLL ... frustrating for the first day in the python world. ANY
>> tip ?
>
> Post the exact error message you're getting.  Also post your code, if it's
> not too long.
>
And post it in a new thread.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Nov 23 12:38:36 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:38:36 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>

So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at 
an end.

It may be time to move on to c++.



From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 12:40:37 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:40:37 +0000
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1aoO3hZg=dnLAK7b2=ad8iQRA5i4ZiiAb7Dk937MfebkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2011 17:10, Massi <massi_srb at msn.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
> that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
> must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
>
> This is an 'example string'
>
> to the following vector:

You mean "list"

> ["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
>

Here's a way:

>>> s = "This is an 'example string' with 'quotes again'"
>>> [x for i, p in enumerate(s.split("'")) for x in ([p] if i%2 else p.split())]
['This', 'is', 'an', 'example string', 'with', 'quotes again']

-- 
Arnaud


From nicholas.dokos at hp.com  Wed Nov 23 12:51:12 2011
From: nicholas.dokos at hp.com (Nick Dokos)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:51:12 -0500
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
In-Reply-To: Message from "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse@sunedison.com> of "Wed,
	23 Nov 2011 11:31:21 CST."
	<6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B01967924@mail.sunedison.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
	<6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B01967924@mail.sunedison.com>
Message-ID: <27191.1322070672@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org>

Alemu Tadesse <atadesse at sunedison.com> wrote:

> Can we use rsplit function on an array or vector of strings ? it works
> for one not for vector

> ...
> 
> I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
> that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
> must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
> 
> This is an 'example string'
> 
> to the following vector:
> 
> ["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
> 
> Which is the best way to achieve this?
> Thanks in advance!

You can use a list comprehension:

l2 = [x.rsplit(...) for x in l]

But for the original question, maybe the csv module would be
more useful: you can change delimiters and quotechars to match
your input:

    import csv
    reader = csv.reader(open("foo.txt", "rb"), delimiter=' ', quotechar="'")
    for row in reader:
        print row

Nick


From kliateni at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 13:04:54 2011
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:04:54 +0100
Subject: Template class and class design on concrete example xl2csv writer
Message-ID: <4ECD35C6.4070306@gmail.com>

Hello All,

I have the following code and I am quite satisfied with its design BUT I 
have the feeling I can do better.
Basically the, main() execute the program (I did not put the parsing of 
arguments function). I am opening
an Excel document and writing content in a CSV one w/ different format. 
The design is an abstract template
class XLWriter, and derived  'Xl2Csv', 'Xl2Scsv', 'Xl2text' classes to 
write the correct ASCII DOCUMENT to correct format.
The property hook method file_format is implement in these classes and 
return an object of type 'XlCsvFileFormat' or 'XlTabFileFormat'.
It allows to put the right file extension and delimiter. These class are 
derived from standard csv.excel and csv.excel_tab.
At last a Factory class MakeXlWriter has the job to create the correct 
writer.

For now I did not add a strategy pattern which usually goes with the 
Template pattern.

Except from that all better design or others critics will be welcome.


Regards
karim

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

from __future__ import print_function

import sys, os, argparse, csv, xlrd

__all__  = ['main', 'Xl2CsvError', 'XLWriter', 'XlCsvFileFormat', 
'XlTabFileFormat', 'Xl2Csv', 'Xl2Scsv', 'Xl2text', 'MakeXlWriter']


class Xl2CsvError(Exception):
     """The exception class to manage the internal program errors."""
     pass

class XlWriter(object):
     """Abstract template class."""
     def __init__(self, xlfilename=None, sheets=None):
         """Initializer."""
         if self.__class__.__name__ == 'XlWriter':
             raise TypeError('Abstract template Class XlWriter could not 
be instanciated directly!')

         if not xlfilename:
             raise Xl2CsvError('Please provide a non empty file name!')
         else:
             self._source_name = xlfilename

         self._book = xlrd.open_workbook(xlfilename)

         if sheets is not None:
             if isinstance(sheets[0], int):
                 self._selected_sheets = 
[self._book.sheet_by_index(sheetnum-1) for sheetnum in sheets]
             elif isinstance(sheets[0], str):
                 try:
                     self._selected_sheets = 
[self._book.sheet_by_name(sheetname) for sheetname in sheets]
                 except xlrd.biffh.XLRDError, e:
                     print('{0} in file document {1}'.format(e, xlfilename))
                     sys.exit(1)
             else:
                 raise Xl2CsvError('Sheets element type not recognized!')
         else:
             self._selected_sheets = self._book.sheets()

     def write(self):
         """The file extraction public method."""

         for sheet in self._selected_sheets:
             xlfilename = '{sheet}{ext}'.format(sheet=sheet.name, 
ext='.'+self.file_format.extension.lower())
             try:
                 writer = csv.writer(open(xlfilename, 'wb'), 
delimiter=self.file_format.delimiter)
                 print("Creating csv file '{file}' for sheet '{sheet}' 
contained in document {src} ...".format(
                        sheet=sheet.name, file=xlfilename, 
src=self._source_name), end=' ')
                 for row in xrange(sheet.nrows):
                     writer.writerow(sheet.row_values(row))
                 print('Done.')
             except csv.Error, e:
                 print(e)
                 return 1

         return 0

     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook method. Need to implement in derived classes.

         Should return an XLAsciiFileFormat object to get file extension 
and inner delimiter.
         """
         pass

class XlCsvFileFormat(csv.excel):
     """Add file extension to the usual properties of Excel-generated 
CSV files."""
     extension = 'CSV'

class XlTabFileFormat(csv.excel_tab):
     """Add file extension to the usual properties of Excel-generated 
<TAB> delimited files."""
     extension = 'TXT'

class Xl2Csv(XlWriter):
     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook factory method"""
         return  XlCsvFileFormat()

class Xl2Scsv(XlWriter):
     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook factory method"""
         _format = XlCsvFileFormat()
         _format.extension = 'SCSV'
         _format.delimiter = ';'
         return _format

class Xl2Text(XlWriter):
     @property
     def file_format(self):
         """Hook factory method"""
         return  XlTabFileFormat()

class MakeXlWriter(object):
     """Factory class for XLWriter objects.
     """
     @staticmethod
     def make(xlfilename=None, sheets=None, extension='CSV'):
         if extension == "TXT":
            return Xl2Text(xlfilename=xlfilename, sheets=sheets)
         elif extension == "SCSV":
            return Xl2Scsv(xlfilename=xlfilename, sheets=sheets)
         elif extension == "CSV":
            return Xl2Csv(xlfilename=xlfilename, sheets=sheets)

def main():
     """Main of this application"""
     args = _process_command_line()
     args.xl.close()
     writer = MakeXlWriter.make(xlfilename=args.xl.name, 
sheets=args.sheets, extension=args.ext)
     return writer.write()

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 13:29:05 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:29:05 +0000
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1bThcok2xLexWHbv8isjAMHYxH1d6CXZUExiNaU1WMH9g@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2011 17:38, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
[...]
> It may be time to move on to c++.

Good Luck.  Bye!

-- 
Arnaud


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 13:34:39 2011
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:34:39 -0500
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CADwdpybtizogdt6owfwV6Fu+p=V7S6v_t=gBFiV+ddprVR7bew@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Massi <massi_srb at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
> that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
> must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
>
> This is an 'example string'
>
> to the following vector:
>
> ["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
>
> Which is the best way to achieve this?
>


This sounds a lot like the way a shell parses arguments on the command
line.  If that's your desire, python has a module in the standard library
that will help, called shlex (http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html).
Particularly, shlex.split may do exactly what you want out of the box:

Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32

>>> import shlex
>>> s = "This is an 'example string'"
>>> shlex.split(s)
['This', 'is', 'an', 'example string']
>>>

-- 
Jerry
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Nov 23 14:00:39 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:00:39 +0000
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
In-Reply-To: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me> <vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi>
	<6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
Message-ID: <4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 23/11/2011 15:40, Alemu Tadesse wrote:
> I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
> changes everything to just black and white after saving.

If you're using IDLE, are you saving the file without the .py
extension? That could be the problem.

> No color for say the built in functions for loops defs .... they all
> look the same - it is annoying for someone coming from another
> editors that help you track/easily see your work. I just un installed
> it to install it again. I know it is pain to install all the
> scientific things again. I wish Python has something like R
> (R-studio) from which you can install packages very easily. I just
> started yesterday and already frustrated with it. I am sticking to
> python only because I hear good things about it and I think it is my
> problem.
>


From atadesse at sunedison.com  Wed Nov 23 14:02:11 2011
From: atadesse at sunedison.com (Alemu Tadesse)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:02:11 -0600
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
In-Reply-To: <4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi><6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
	<4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B0196798B@mail.sunedison.com>

I am saving it with .py extention


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+atadesse=sunedison.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of MRAB
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 12:01 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python 2.7.2 on XP

On 23/11/2011 15:40, Alemu Tadesse wrote:
> I am new to python. I do not know why my python editor (for 2.7.2)
> changes everything to just black and white after saving.

If you're using IDLE, are you saving the file without the .py
extension? That could be the problem.

> No color for say the built in functions for loops defs .... they all
> look the same - it is annoying for someone coming from another
> editors that help you track/easily see your work. I just un installed
> it to install it again. I know it is pain to install all the
> scientific things again. I wish Python has something like R
> (R-studio) from which you can install packages very easily. I just
> started yesterday and already frustrated with it. I am sticking to
> python only because I hear good things about it and I think it is my
> problem.
>
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From gordon at panix.com  Wed Nov 23 14:11:37 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:11:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.7.2 on XP
References: <ja66rt$jag$1@dont-email.me>
	<vg3d3cjdwml.fsf@sci.fi><6FA6EB75E3CA4744ADF9EF97D8DAC18B019678B5@mail.sunedison.com>
	<4ECD42D7.7010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2984.1322074984.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jajgh9$o5b$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2984.1322074984.27778.python-list at python.org> "Alemu Tadesse" <atadesse at sunedison.com> writes:

> I am saving it with .py extention

It would really help us answer your question if you identified
which editor you're using.  IDLE?  PyScripter?  Eclipse?  PyCharm?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 15:40:27 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:40:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
In-Reply-To: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <29337570.208.1322080827452.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqiv14>

http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Nov 23 16:13:28 2011
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:13:28 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECC6C65.2090902@yahoo.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>	<mailman.2955.1321992362.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ECC6C65.2090902@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <jajnlr$2aq$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 23.11.2011 04:45, schrieb Alan Meyer:
> On 11/22/2011 3:05 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:29:18 -0500, Alan Meyer<ameyer2 at yahoo.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>> On 11/22/2011 1:55 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> 6. Select, or navigate to and select, the python IDLE interpreter.
>>> ...
>>> On my system that's
>>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe
>>>
>> Note that this is not the Tk based IDLE (which is implemented,
>> itself, as a .pyw file and is not natively executable -- which seems to
>> be one of the problems; Win7 has removed the detailed file type
>> association windows so you can't specify that the "application" is
>> pythonw.exe running idle.pyw using one's selected file as the argument
>> to the mess).
>
> Bummer!
>
> Sorry W.eWatson, my instructions may not work. I've got the ActiveState
> Python on my Windows machine. It runs a .exe file as the IDLE
> executable. If your implementation doesn't have an exe then you're going
> to have to do some more complex work.
>

PythonWin hasn't got anything to do with IDLE, it's another IDE for 
Python. It is part of the Python for Windows extensions:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 23 16:49:48 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:49:48 +1100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2981.1322072948.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878vn67blv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> writes:

> On 23 November 2011 17:38, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > It may be time to move on to c++.
>
> Good Luck.  Bye!

Sadly, IME it's most often the case that the person who threatens to
leave with just about every message will instead stick around a long
time, repeating the same threats while expecting those threats to elicit
support.

-- 
 \     ?It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to |
  `\    persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.? ?Carl |
_o__)                                                            Sagan |
Ben Finney


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 17:29:29 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:29:29 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 12:38 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at
> an end.
>
> It may be time to move on to c++.
>

C++ is a ton of fun.  You haven't lived until you've made a syntax error 
in a template instantiation and seen a hundred cascading error messages 
from included files that you didn't know you included.

Unlike Python, it really builds character.

I say, go for it!

     Alan


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 17:58:59 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:58:59 +1100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me> <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1PFKgt_nH2-7bsLHq-hB0b43Zfwu0qk7FoP6NjSX5aOEg@mail.gmail.com>

Moving to C++ is _always_ a step backwards.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Alan Meyer <ameyer2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/23/2011 12:38 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>> So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at
>> an end.
>>
>> It may be time to move on to c++.
>>
>
> C++ is a ton of fun. ?You haven't lived until you've made a syntax error in
> a template instantiation and seen a hundred cascading error messages from
> included files that you didn't know you included.
>
> Unlike Python, it really builds character.
>
> I say, go for it!
>
> ? ?Alan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From Phil_member at newsguy.com  Wed Nov 23 19:02:40 2011
From: Phil_member at newsguy.com (Phil Rist)
Date: 23 Nov 2011 16:02:40 -0800
Subject: Running Idle on Windows 7
Message-ID: <jak1j007s4@drn.newsguy.com>

I have installed ActiveState Python 32bit on my computer.  There 
are potentially five different ways that Idle can be run.  Actually six
if you include activating a command window and typing in the command.
We will not do that here.

The first way is to use the shortcut put into the start menu by the
ActiveState installation program.  Left click on the start menu icon
followed by hovering over the 'All Programs' button will bring up the 
menu.  At this point find and click the ActiveState ActivePython entry.
This will bring up the Python sub-menu on which Idle can be found and
clicked to start Idle.  If this is not previously you could create a shortcut as
described below and move it to the start button.  I do not know how to do that
on Windows 7.

The other methods may require some effort on your part.  Each extension
has a file type.  Each file type has a context menu which can be accessed
by right clicking an appropriate Windows Explorer entry or desktop icon.
The contents of the context menu is maintained in the registry.  The Regedit
utility can be used to modify the menu.

The following text typed into a file with a .reg extension can be used to
create part of a context menu for files with either a .py or .pyw extension.
Once the file is created it can be run by double clicking the file's
entry in Windows Explorer.  The file type I selected is pyfile.  If you select
a file type that already exists it will be overwritten.  If these extensions
have already been given a file type that file type should be used.  If there is 
already an Open command and you do not want to replace it change the Open names
here to something that is not already used.    Note the wrapping of the last
line.


REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py]
@="pyfile"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pyw]				
@="pyfile"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile]
@="Python source"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile\Shell]
@="Open"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile\Shell\Open]
@="Open"
"EditFlags"=hex:01,00,00,00
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\pyfile\Shell\Open\Command]
@="c:\\sys\\Language\\python\\pythonw.exe     
C:\\Sys\\Language\\Python\\Lib\\idlelib\\idle.pyw \"%1\"   "

The first two group of lines simply assign the pyfile file type to the two
extensions.  The third group sets the file type description displayed by 
Windows Explorer to 'Python Source'.  The fourth group  makes Open the default 
command.  The command that will be executed when a file is doubled clicked.  
The last group defines the text for the command.  This is basically the same as 
any command entered in a command window except instead of a file name %1 is 
entered.  This will be replaced by the name of the selected python file.  Also
any
'\' or '"' which appear in the command must be preceeded by a '\'.  The command 
given here will run Idle.  The file paths will need to be changed to what is 
appropriate on your computer.

I noticed that I had a file type Python.File.  This file type had two commands
one to run the program, 'Open' and one to Edit with Pythonwin, 
'Edit with Pythonwin'.  This was setup by the ActiveState installation program. 
These can be recovered with a .reg file with the following contents.

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py]
@="Python.File"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pyw]				
@="Python.File"


There is also a context menu for directories.  One menu for all directories.  
An entry for Idle can be created with the following code.  This also is
entered into a .reg file.  The same rules apply.  Here %1 will be replaced 
by the directory path.  Like the Start Menu method you do not have access 
to a file path.  Note the wrapping of the last line.

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\Shell\Idle]
@="Idle"
"EditFlags"=hex:01,00,00,00
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\Shell\Idle\Command]
@="c:\\sys\\Language\\python\\pythonw.exe 
C:\\Sys\\Language\\Python\\Lib\\idlelib\\idle.pyw   "


The fourth way is to create a shortcut to Idle.  This is basically the same 
as the Start Menu method except the shortcut can be put on the desktop where
it will appear as an icon or in any directory where it can be accessed from
Windows Explorer.  My technique here was to create a directory called 'Python'.
Within that directory I created three directories 'New', 'Explore' and
'Projects'
to contain my Python programs.  The 'Python' directory contains  infrastructure
files such as the .reg files.

I created a fourth sub-menu called 'Python Shortcuts'.  I added several
shortcuts which I thought would be useful, including a shortcut to Idle. 
Windows allows me to create a toolbar on the quick launch bar.  This toolbar
contains a list of the contents of a selected directory.  In my case the 'Python
Shortcuts' directory. I can run Idle by clicking on the toolbar and then the
entry for Idle.

To create the shortcut find the Python interpreter pythonw.exe.  Right click it
and select 'Create shortcut'.  The shortcut will appear in the same directory as
pythonw.exe.  Drag it to the directory you want it in.  Right click it and
select 'Properties'.  In the middle of the dialog is a text box labeled
'Target'.  This field contains the command which will be executed.  Add the path
to Idle.pyw to the end of the command.  Click the OK button.  You can also
create a shortcut to the supplied .bat file.  This will work without any further
editing.

The last method is to use a program which accepts command lines from some
source. I have a buttonbar program which uses an initialization file which
defines each command for each button.

As a word of warning,  .reg files are not the easiest things to work with.



From Phil_member at newsguy.com  Wed Nov 23 19:20:43 2011
From: Phil_member at newsguy.com (Phil Rist)
Date: 23 Nov 2011 16:20:43 -0800
Subject: String splitting  by spaces question
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jak2kr09dh@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f at r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>,
Massi says...
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I have to parse a string and splitting it by spaces. The problem is
>that the string can include substrings comprises by quotations which
>must mantain the spaces. What I need is to pass from a string like:
>
>This is an 'example string'
>
>to the following vector:
>
>["This", "is", "an", "example string"]
>
>Which is the best way to achieve this?
>Thanks in advance!


Is this what you want?

import shlex


lText = "This is a 'short string' for you to read."
lWords = shlex.split(lText)
print lWords

produces,

['This', 'is', 'a', 'short string', 'for', 'you', 'to', 'read.']

Shlex can be found under 'Program Frameworks' under 'The Python Standard
Library' of ActivePython 2.7 documentation.

C:\Source\Python\New>



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 21:16:10 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 02:16:10 GMT
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000, Tim Golden wrote:

> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function: Open a
> cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
> 
> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window. Do some random cmd stuff:
> dir, cd, etc.
> 
> Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back the
> previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you entered in the
> surrounding shell)

Doesn't work for me, at least not with Python 2.5 and 2.6 on Linux.

I don't suppose you are running a site-specific command history script in 
your startup.py file?


[steve at wow-wow ~]$ unset PYTHONSTARTUP
[steve at wow-wow ~]$ python
Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Nov  6 2007, 16:54:01)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print 42
42
>>>
[1]+  Stopped                 python
[steve at wow-wow ~]$ python
Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Nov  6 2007, 16:54:01)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>


You can't see it, but I'm hitting the up arrow on that last line, and 
nothing is happening except my console is flashing :)


-- 
Steven


From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:09:49 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:09:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b601a472-3bba-4a51-a598-cdc8a5dff9f5@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

Seems so far the common way to fully unload any import is to exit the
Python session.
Only if this is true do I offer this hackish idea:

Therefore you might wish to run an os script instead of a python
script right off.
Here is my hack at it... Something like this:

file myapp.bat
--------------
python get_availble_imports.py available_imports.log
python myapp.py available_imports.log


file get_availble_imports.py
----------------------------
find_module_names = """
os sys time
sqlite lib1_verA lib2_verA
sqlite3 lib1_verB lib2_verB
"""

# other code i'm leaving out of this forum post

def find_module_names_using_pydoc( block_string ):

    '''Searchs for module names, provided in a block string,
    against the resultant module names list returned from pydoc. \n
    Returns a list of strings, being the intersection of module names
    from both lists.'''

    all_wanted_modules = parse_block_for_module_names( block_string )
# use split and drop empties

    module_names_found = []

    # walk_packages actually imports libraries;
    # so you know the import should work.
    # i call em modules; but they could be packages too

    # following line can take many seconds to run
    package_generator = pydoc.pkgutil.walk_packages(path=None,
prefix='', onerror=error_handler)

    for package_name in package_generator:
        module_loader, module_name, ispkg = package_name
        if module_name in all_wanted_modules:
            module_names_found.append( module_name )
            print repr( module_name )

    return module_names_found

found = find_module_names_using_pydoc( find_module_names )

#Then with a switch statement (if/elif) create a string with to be
#saved to the log file with what module names are in usable_mods

if 'sqlite' in found and 'lib1_verA' in found and 'lib2_verA' in
found:
    save('import sqlite, lib1_verA, lib2_verA')
elif 'sqlite' in found and 'lib1_verB' in found and 'lib2_verB' in
found:
    save('import sqlite3, lib1_verB, lib2_verB')
else:
    raise ImportError('Necessary packages not found')


file myapp.py
-------------
with open('available_imports.log','r') as f:
    text = f.read()
exec(text)
# DONE


From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:23:09 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:23:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is there any way to unimport a library
References: <mailman.2863.1321802119.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<b601a472-3bba-4a51-a598-cdc8a5dff9f5@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0edae6b0-439c-4d0f-ba03-e5b62d04693c@s6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

btw if you like processing text outside of python (say using grep or
something)

python -c "help('modules')" > all_imports.log

which you might note on windows get's processed to:
python -c "help('modules')" 1> all_imports.log
on windows from within a batch file



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 22:29:16 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 03:29:16 GMT
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
Message-ID: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'd like to perform a task when the user interrupts my application with 
Ctrl-Z on Linux. I tried installing a signal handler:


import signal

def handler(signalnum, stackframe):
    print "Received signal %d" % signalnum

signal.signal(signal.SIGSTOP, handler)

But I got a RuntimeError:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')


This isn't documented:

http://docs.python.org/library/signal.html#signal.signal


Is there a way to catch SIGSTOP?



-- 
Steven


From nirmanlongjam at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:50:16 2011
From: nirmanlongjam at gmail.com (nirman longjam)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:50:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tree data structure with: single, double and triple children option
	along with AVM data at each node
Message-ID: <7548c4b6-f3f1-4f96-9a77-fcb9e0edeed0@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Dear sir,

I am very happy to find this group.

Sir, i am new to Python. Currently i am working on text processing.
Can you give me some suggestions about Tree data structure
representation, where i require each node capable to handle:  only one
child, or up to 3 children plus hold feature information.


Thanking you,
L. Nirman Singh



From devplayer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:53:44 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:53:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: String splitting by spaces question
References: <3f19e4c0-e010-4cb2-9f71-dd09e0d3cb1f@r9g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
	<jak2kr09dh@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <45795de6-01d4-4969-9a6e-872ceadaf645@da3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This is an 'example string'

Don't for get to watch for things like:

Don't, Can't, Won't, I'll, He'll, Hor'davors, Mc'Kinly


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 23 22:55:56 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 03:55:56 GMT
Subject: Bind key press to call function
Message-ID: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'm looking for a way to interrupt a long-running function on a key 
press, but without halting the function.

E.g. if I have these two functions:

def handler(*args):
    print "caught interrupt and continuing..."


def exercise_cpu():
    for i in range(8):
        print "working..."
        for j in range(1000000):
            pass
    print "done"


and I call exercise_cpu(), then type some key combination (say, Ctrl-x-p 
for the sake of the argument), I'd like the result to look something like 
this:

>>> exercise_cpu()
working...
working...
working...
working...
working...
working...
caught interrupt and continuing...
working...
working...
done


I think I want to use the readline module to catch the key press Ctrl-x-p 
and generate a signal, say SIGUSR1, then use the signal module to install 
a signal handler to catch SIGUSR1. Is this the right approach, or is 
there a better one? Does anyone show me an example of working code that 
does this?

Linux only solutions are acceptable.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:20:09 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:20:09 +1100
Subject: Bind key press to call function
In-Reply-To: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpzM0fE7voJ-iixkCwebtb+HimeOWZNB6DgkLSkA-FEbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to interrupt a long-running function on a key
> press, but without halting the function.

I assume there's a reason for not using Ctrl-C and SIGINT with the
signal module?

This looks like the classic "sigint handler sets a flag that the main
loop polls" structure.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:22:23 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:22:23 +1100
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
In-Reply-To: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoqjwckDZJufPtxR8fifzqqE6HN_o1ktkB9W_A9jR+iAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Is there a way to catch SIGSTOP?

In the strictest sense, no; SIGSTOP can't be caught. However, some
systems have SIGTSTP which is sent when you hit Ctrl-Z, which would be
what you're looking for.

http://www.gnu.org/s/hello/manual/libc/Job-Control-Signals.html

Tested on my Linux box only; this almost certainly won't work on Windows.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:30:57 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:30:57 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmraGWQe0kCGjxbt_ERkYj7DDTzoj+=waoLQ4Q740vGatg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000, Tim Golden wrote:
>
>> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function: Open a
>> cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>>
>> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window. Do some random cmd stuff:
>> dir, cd, etc.
>>>>
> [1]+ ?Stopped ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? python

Ctrl-Z is the Windows equivalent (well, mostly) of Linux's Ctrl-D. You
want to cleanly exit the interpreter, not SIGSTOP it.

ChrisA


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Wed Nov 23 23:44:30 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:44:30 -0500
Subject: Thread problem
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D616@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D616@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D735@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Can someone help me on this please?


From: python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+nikunj.badjatya=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:15 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Thread problem

Howdy All,

Please see http://pastebin.com/GuwH8B5C .
Its a sample program implementing progressbar in multithreaded program.
Here I am creating a thread and passing update2() function to it.

Now wheneever I press CTRL-C, the program isnt returning to prompt. !

Can someone help me out with this please. !

Thanks
Nikunj
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 01:07:47 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 06:07:47 GMT
Subject: Bind key press to call function
References: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2988.1322108411.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecddf33$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:20:09 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I'm looking for a way to interrupt a long-running function on a key
>> press, but without halting the function.
> 
> I assume there's a reason for not using Ctrl-C and SIGINT with the
> signal module?

Yes, I want to leave Ctrl-C alone and have a similar, but separate, 
signal handler (or equivalent).

> This looks like the classic "sigint handler sets a flag that the main
> loop polls" structure.

Exactly. I am open to alternative methods if they are lightweight. 



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 01:11:19 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 06:11:19 GMT
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:30:57 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:56 +0000, Tim Golden wrote:
>>
>>> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function: Open a
>>> cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>>>
>>> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window. Do some random cmd
>>> stuff: dir, cd, etc.
>>>>>
>> [1]+ ?Stopped ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? python
> 
> Ctrl-Z is the Windows equivalent (well, mostly) of Linux's Ctrl-D. You
> want to cleanly exit the interpreter, not SIGSTOP it.


One of us is confused, and I'm pretty sure it's you :)

Tim went on to say "Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd 
session persists", which I understood as implying that he too is using 
Linux where Ctrl-Z stops the process, but does not exit it.



-- 
Steven


From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:15:20 2011
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:15:20 -0700
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>	<1c554c22-8640-4ca3-a6f2-2cb8da318062@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<jaghor$rj9$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECDE0F8.2030701@gmail.com>

On 11/22/2011 09:14 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 7:00 PM, alex23 wrote:
>> "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>> Comments?
>>
>> Please don't start multiple threads on the same issue.
> Your joking, right, or do you just prefer 500 line threads wandering all 
> over the place?

Most of us use threaded e-mail clients or nntp clients (Gmail's
conversations are rubbish for this kind of thing) and so yes, having all
500 responses wandering all over the place in an orderly tree structure
is infinitely preferred to many threads all talking about the same
thing.  Each message contains a referral id that refers the message that
is being replied to.  Thus the logical flow of the conversation is
preserved very well despite many posters and meandering conversation
branches.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:20:30 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:20:30 +1100
Subject: Bind key press to call function
In-Reply-To: <4ecddf33$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdc04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2988.1322108411.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecddf33$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoeF8fRFnBd75iW498Y2rQ7mNBsDUi2PN6J3C5Y8SQ5BQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> This looks like the classic "sigint handler sets a flag that the main
>> loop polls" structure.
>
> Exactly. I am open to alternative methods if they are lightweight.

Might be easiest to spin off a thread to do the work, and then have
the main thread block on the keyboard.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:22:35 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:22:35 +1100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> One of us is confused, and I'm pretty sure it's you :)
>
> Tim went on to say "Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd
> session persists", which I understood as implying that he too is using
> Linux where Ctrl-Z stops the process, but does not exit it.

Entirely possible :) I blithely assumed from the fact that he said
"dir" that it was Windows, but it goes to show what happens when you
assume.

ChrisA


From rick.mansilla at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 01:36:40 2011
From: rick.mansilla at gmail.com (Ricardo Mansilla)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:36:40 -0600
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
Message-ID: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>

Hi everyone..
My question is exactly as in the subject of This Mail. 
I have made a Python  script which is to slow and i have heard (and common sense also suggest) that if you use some libraries to "frozen" the script the performance improves substantially. So I need to know; is This a myth or it is a fact?
Thanks in advance for your time. 


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 01:36:53 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Nov 2011 06:36:53 GMT
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2989.1322108547.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:22:23 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Is there a way to catch SIGSTOP?
> 
> In the strictest sense, no; SIGSTOP can't be caught. However, some
> systems have SIGTSTP which is sent when you hit Ctrl-Z, which would be
> what you're looking for.

That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks.

After catching the interrupt and doing whatever I need to do, I want to 
allow the process to be stopped as normal. Is this the right way?

import signal, os

def handler(signalnum, stackframe):
    print "Received signal %d" % signalnum
    os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGSTOP)  # Hit myself with a brick.

signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handler)


It seems to work for me (on Linux), but is it the right way?



-- 
Steven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 03:04:02 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:04:02 -0700
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:36 PM, Ricardo Mansilla
<rick.mansilla at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone..
> My question is exactly as in the subject of This Mail.
> I have made a Python ?script which is to slow and i have heard (and common sense also suggest) that if you use some libraries to "frozen" the script the performance improves substantially. So I need to know; is This a myth or it is a fact?
> Thanks in advance for your time.

I would not expect any speedup.  You might see some difference in
loading times, but the actual program being run is still just the
Python interpreter running your script, and that's not going to run
any faster.

I had a coworker who wrapped up one of his applications with py2exe /
pyInstaller on the theory that since his program would be run from a
network share, it would be faster to load a single exe over the
network than a bunch of .pyc files plus the files needed to run the
interpreter.  I can't tell any difference, though.

Cheers,
Ian


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 03:12:13 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:12:13 +1100
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
In-Reply-To: <4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2989.1322108547.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=kw7ZMR-DsXS5pzxX0f=9_7U5T2WAteDCq9+WHUGs2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> ? ?os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGSTOP) ?# Hit myself with a brick.
>

Sometimes there'll be a raise() function but it's going to do the same
thing. Yep, that would be the way to do it.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 03:15:02 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:15:02 +1100
Subject: Capturing SIGSTOP
In-Reply-To: <4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ecdba0c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2989.1322108547.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde605$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr7NPJMuHW=rSU-+EgxfKcQO4mJV9FKFpiOQ-NmrH3O0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> ? ?os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGSTOP) ?# Hit myself with a brick.
>
>
> It seems to work for me (on Linux), but is it the right way?

And - if your system has SIGTSTP, it'll have SIGSTOP and this will be
how it works. (Windows has neither.) This code will probably work fine
on all modern Unix-like systems, but if it fails anywhere, it'll be
for lack of SIGTSTP I would say.

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Nov 24 03:51:35 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:51:35 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECE0597.60802@timgolden.me.uk>

On 24/11/2011 06:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>> One of us is confused, and I'm pretty sure it's you :)
>>
>> Tim went on to say "Obviously this only applies when an underlying cmd
>> session persists", which I understood as implying that he too is using
>> Linux where Ctrl-Z stops the process, but does not exit it.
>
> Entirely possible :) I blithely assumed from the fact that he said
> "dir" that it was Windows, but it goes to show what happens when you
> assume.

Ahem. Sorry for any confusion caused. The OP was asking about the
situation on Windows, and I was responding in that context. The
Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows (a la Ctrl-D
on Linux).

In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
into the cmd shell.

If you exit the cmd shell then that history is lost, and I'm not
aware of any mechanism for retaining it.

All this may or may not be of any use to the OP. I was responding
to this comment by Steven:

"The default interactive interpreter for Python doesn't have persistent
history, so if you exit the interpreter and restart it, your commands
are gone."


TJG



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov 24 06:56:42 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:56:42 +0100
Subject: reading optional configuration from a file
Message-ID: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I have a few tests that require a network connection. Typically, the 
target will be localhost on port 20000. However, sometimes these 
settings differ, so I want to be able to optionally set them.

What I'm currently doing is this:

     try:
         from settings import REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT
     except ImportError:
         REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
         REMOTE_PORT = 20000

This works fine. However, there are actually a few more settings that 
can be overridden, so I changed the whole thing to this:

     try:
         from settings import *
         if not 'REMOTE_HOST' in locals():
             REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
         if not 'REMOTE_PORT' in locals():
             REMOTE_PORT = 20000
     except ImportError:
         REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
         REMOTE_PORT = 20000

Yes, wildcard imports are dangerous, but that's something I don't mind 
actually, this is an internal tool for clueful users. Still, this is 
ugly, since the defaults are stored redundantly, so I went to this variant:

     REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
     REMOTE_PORT = 20000
     try:
         from settings import *
     except ImportError:
         pass

Now, in order to avoid ambiguities, I thought about using relative 
imports, but there I'm stomped because wildcard imports are not 
supported for relative imports, it seems.


How would you do it? Any other suggestions?

Cheers!

Uli


From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 07:31:35 2011
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (Rudra Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:01:35 +0530
Subject: suitability of python
Message-ID: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>

Dear friends,
I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
like plotting, data manipulation etc.
Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
heavy computation? 
Any comment or reference is welcome.



From moky.math at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 07:46:13 2011
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:46:13 +0100
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jaleal$i9i$1@news.univ-fcomte.fr>

Le 24/11/2011 13:31, Rudra Banerjee a ?crit :
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?
> Any comment or reference is welcome.


If you need mathematical power (especially symbolic computations), you 
should also consider Sage[1] which is kind of a module of math over 
python. In some situations, Sage is the "correct" successor of Fortran 
instead of plain python.

Well, it does not answers the question, but ...

Laurent

[1] http://sagemath.org



From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 24 08:08:39 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:08:39 -0500
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <4ECE41D7.9090103@davea.name>

On 11/24/2011 07:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?
> Any comment or reference is welcome.
>
If I take your description at face value, then I'd say that stock 
CPython would be slower than Fortran.  If the CPU-intensive parts had to 
be rewritten in CPython, they'd be slower than the Fortran they replace, 
by somewhere between 10:1 and 500:1.  Further, if you've already got 
those Fortran algorithms written and debugged, why rewrite them?  And 
finally, even for new code, you might be getting ideas for your 
algorithms from journals and other resources, where the examples may 
well be done in Fortran, so productivity might be best in Fortran as well.

HOWEVER, you don't have to use stock CPython, alone.  It could be that 
some of your Fortran algorithms are written in shared libraries, and 
that you could get your CPython code to call them to do the "heavy 
lifting."  Or it could be that numpy, sage, or other 3rd party libraries 
might be usable for your particular problems, and that speed is then 
comparable to Fortran.  Or it could be that one of the alternative 
Python implementations might be fast enough.

Or it could even be that you're mistaken that the present code is even 
CPU intensive.

Or it could be that by the time you recode the problem in Python, you 
discover a more efficient algorithm, and that way gain back all the 
speed you theoretically lost.

There are tools to measure things, though I'm not the one to recommend 
specifics.  And those probably depend on your platform as well.

The last Fortran that I wrote was over 40 years ago.  I'm afraid when I 
need speed, I usually use C++.  But if I were starting a personal 
math-intensive project now, I'd try to prototype it in Python, and only 
move portions of it to Fortran or other compiled language.  Only the 
portions that measurably took too long.  And those portions might be 
rewritten in Cython, C++, or Fortran, depending on what kind of work 
they actually did.

Another alternative that might make sense is to use Python as a "macro 
language" to Fortran, where you call out to Python to automate some 
tasks within the main program.  I have no experience with doing that, 
but I assume it'd be something like how MSWord can call out to VBA 
routines.  And it'd make the most sense when the main app is already 
written, and the macro stuff is an afterthought.

I think the real point is that it doesn't have to be "all or nothing."  
I suspect that the pieces you're already doing in Python are calling out 
to pre-existing libraries as well.  So your plotting code does some 
massaging, and then calls into some plotting library, or even execs a 
plotting executable.

-- 

DaveA



From rick.mansilla at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 08:26:27 2011
From: rick.mansilla at gmail.com (Ricardo Mansilla)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:26:27 -0600
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>

Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer... 
Bye.

From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 24 08:38:43 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:38:43 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>

On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
> Bye.
Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't 
other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all 
or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.

-- 

DaveA



From rick.mansilla at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 09:02:49 2011
From: rick.mansilla at gmail.com (Ricardo Mansilla)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:02:49 -0600
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
Message-ID: <432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>

Most of m?thods for improving the speed are related to efficient memory management and using specific structures for a specific tasks... But i have already optimized my code (which is very short actually) following all these rules and it is very slow yet. 
Do you think there is another way to do This? Probably i'm missing something here...

On 24/11/2011, at 07:38, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
>> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
>> Bye.
> Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.
> 
> -- 
> 
> DaveA
> 


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Thu Nov 24 09:05:55 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:05:55 +0100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<8762ijlqpt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2786.1321487193.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<87hb23ei00.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4jv1q8-sv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 17.11.2011 00:59, schrieb Ben Finney:
> David Robinow<drobinow at gmail.com>  writes:
>> but your code works fine on Windows. Thanks.
>
> I'm glad to know that. Perhaps you could investigate why, and suggest an
> update to the above documentation if it's wrong? The bug tracker at
> <URL:http://bugs.python.org/>  would be the appropriate place for such a
> suggestion.

Interestingly, on MS Windows (XP here), every commandline program 
inherits the history functionality (browsing with cursor up/down) from 
the shell it runs in. That means the program itself doesn't have to 
supply any of that, but also that it can't customize any of that...

The history is not persistent though, it is restricted to that shell. 
Still, this might explain why it never bothered anyone enough to fix 
things properly. ;)

Uli


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 09:15:20 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:15:20 +1100
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1MF=AgfuPmHHmeHtfBhAUyTDwm6J0mLZAogz8OzsVYajw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. Try posting your code.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Mansilla
<rick.mansilla at gmail.com> wrote:
> Most of m?thods for improving the speed are related to efficient memory management and using specific structures for a specific tasks... But i have already optimized my code (which is very short actually) following all these rules and it is very slow yet.
> Do you think there is another way to do This? Probably i'm missing something here...
>
> On 24/11/2011, at 07:38, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
>>> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This. ?But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
>>> Bye.
>> Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.
>>
>> --
>>
>> DaveA
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 09:21:24 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:21:24 +1100
Subject: reading optional configuration from a file
In-Reply-To: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1OXYNNbqiHjaKm+DbSbVNBnKfjAmovWezE1CJ7m7y-yFg@mail.gmail.com>

 ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost' ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000 ? ?try:
from .settings import * ? ?except ImportError: ? ? ? ?pass
This works? If you're using an old version of Python you may need to
mess about with __future__.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Ulrich Eckhardt
<ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have a few tests that require a network connection. Typically, the target
> will be localhost on port 20000. However, sometimes these settings differ,
> so I want to be able to optionally set them.
>
> What I'm currently doing is this:
>
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?from settings import REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT
> ? ?except ImportError:
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
>
> This works fine. However, there are actually a few more settings that can be
> overridden, so I changed the whole thing to this:
>
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?from settings import *
> ? ? ? ?if not 'REMOTE_HOST' in locals():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ? ? ?if not 'REMOTE_PORT' in locals():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
> ? ?except ImportError:
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ? ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
>
> Yes, wildcard imports are dangerous, but that's something I don't mind
> actually, this is an internal tool for clueful users. Still, this is ugly,
> since the defaults are stored redundantly, so I went to this variant:
>
> ? ?REMOTE_HOST = 'localhost'
> ? ?REMOTE_PORT = 20000
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?from settings import *
> ? ?except ImportError:
> ? ? ? ?pass
>
> Now, in order to avoid ambiguities, I thought about using relative imports,
> but there I'm stomped because wildcard imports are not supported for
> relative imports, it seems.
>
>
> How would you do it? Any other suggestions?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Uli
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From d at davea.name  Thu Nov 24 09:27:10 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:27:10 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECE543E.9040807@davea.name>

On 11/24/2011 09:02 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
> Most of m?thods for improving the speed are related to efficient memory management and using specific structures for a specific tasks... But i have already optimized my code (which is very short actually) following all these rules and it is very slow yet.
> Do you think there is another way to do This? Probably i'm missing something here...
>
> On 24/11/2011, at 07:38, Dave Angel<d at davea.name>  wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2011 08:26 AM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
>>> Well, that's sad... I think Im gonna end getting back to C++ for This.  But anyway, thanks a lot for the quick answer...
>>> Bye.
>> Just because Py2app doesn't improve speed doesn't mean there aren't other ways to gain speed, while still using the Python language for all or most of the app. There have been lots of threads on the topic.
>>
>> --
>>
>> DaveA
>>
>
(Please don't top-post.  If you put your comments ahead of the part 
you're quoting, you confuse us)

Several ways to speed up code.

1) use language features to best advantage
2) use 3rd party libraries that do certain things well
3) use best algorithms, subject to #1 and #2
4) have someone else review the code (perhaps on the list, perhaps 
within your own organization)
5) measure  (eg. profile it)
6) use optimizing tools, such as pypy or Cython.
7) rewrite parts of it in another language
8) get a faster processor
9) rewrite it all in another language

It takes experience to choose between these, and each project is 
different.  But even the most experienced developers will frequently 
guess entirely wrong where the bottleneck is, which is why you measure 
if you care.


-- 

DaveA


From Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com  Thu Nov 24 10:35:36 2011
From: Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com (Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:35:36 -0500
Subject: How to keep Console area fixed for a thread
Message-ID: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>

Hi All,

Please look at the code below.
I am using pypi progressbar. But in general, How can I keep the area of the console fixed for  the thread to print its status on it.

{{{
import sys
import time
import threading
import os

from progressbar import AnimatedMarker, Bar, BouncingBar, Counter, ETA, \
                        FileTransferSpeed, FormatLabel, Percentage, \
                        ProgressBar, ReverseBar, RotatingMarker, \
                        SimpleProgress, Timer

def ProgBar():
    widgets = [' ', Percentage(), ' ', Bar(marker='#',left='[',right=']'),' ']
    pbar = ProgressBar(widgets=widgets, maxval=100)
    pbar.start()
    return pbar

def update2(i):
    os.environ["PBAR"] = i
    print("This will print for every call to update")
    return



class MyThread(threading.Thread):
    def run(self):
        l = 0
        while True:
            n = os.getenv("PBAR", "")
            if len(n) != 0:
                n = int(n)
                if n > l:
                    pbar.update(n)
                    l = n
                    if n == 100:
                        break
                else:
                    continue

pbar = ProgBar()
mythread = MyThread()
mythread.daemon = True
mythread.start()


for i in range(101):
    update2("{0}".format(i))
    time.sleep(0.25)

  }}}

{{{
Output:

[cid:image002.jpg at 01CCAAEC.CFE44870]


}}}

But I require the output to be of type:
{{{
13%  [###########                               ]
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
This will print for every call to update
}}}

This is just a sample piece of code for narrowing down the problem.
How can I fix the cursor position fix for the thread which is updating my progressbar .?

Thanks
Nikunj
Bangalore-India




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From zdoor at xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 24 11:28:01 2011
From: zdoor at xs4all.nl (Alex van der Spek)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:28:01 +0100
Subject: WAVE file writing, confused about setsampwidth(n)
Message-ID: <4ece7092$0$6902$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

I am confused about the Wave_write object setsampwidth(n).

Is the sample width n the total sample width, i.e. for a stereo sample 
consisting of short (2 byte) integers; n=4 or is the sample width the number 
of bytes in either the left or the right channel?

Regards,
Alex van der Spek 



From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Nov 24 11:46:48 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:46:48 +0100
Subject: DTrace probes in Python 2.7 (and next 3.3)
Message-ID: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi all.

I have spend some time trying to integrate DTrace probes in official
Python: Currently I have a patch to python 2.7, and my plan in to
integrate officially in 3.3.

The initial probes were based on previous work from OpenSolaris, and
similar, but currently I have quite a few more probes. Current details
in
<http://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/file/b1a39702dfd8/Doc/library/dtrace.rst>

The probes are tested under Solaris 10 x86 and x86-64. I would need
somebody to try on Solaris 10 Sparc (32 and 64 bits), Solaris 11,
OpenIndiana, FreeBSD (seems to need a kernel recompilation to enable
user mode tracing, check Google), Mac (I doubt it works as is), etc.,
any other platform running DTrace. What about SystemTap compatibility?

Details: <http://bugs.python.org/issue13405>

How to check: <http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg147706>.

The easier way to get the patch is to clone my repository at
<https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/> (with mercurial) and move to the
branch "dtrace-issue13405_2.7". Keep the clone around if you plan to
try future versions of this patch, including the future 3.3 version.

You can manually apply the patch in
<http://bugs.python.org/file23758/a9f4ae43fd85.diff> to python 2.7.2+
sourcecode. The patch is developed against version 3c3009f63700
(2011-11-14). It might not apply cleanly to 2.7.2 sourcecode (not
checked). I will provide a direct patch to 2.7.3 when available. Maybe
to 2.7.2 if there is demand.

This is still work in progress. I will improve support with your
feedback. I am considering probes to monitor GIL and thinking how to
monitor C function calls from Python in an easy and fast way. Feedback
very welcomed.

Please, if you care about this, test it and provide some feedback :).

PS: Better post feedback in the bug tracker that by personal email :-).

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 12:24:24 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:24:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tree data structure with: single, double and triple children
	option along with AVM data at each node
In-Reply-To: <7548c4b6-f3f1-4f96-9a77-fcb9e0edeed0@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <7548c4b6-f3f1-4f96-9a77-fcb9e0edeed0@s4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <29675595.296.1322155464662.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbjs5>

There a many ways to do this, here's one:

from collections import namedtuple
Tree = namedtuple('Tree', ['feature', 'children'])
t = Tree(1, [Tree('hello', []), Tree(3, [])])


From cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 13:27:09 2011
From: cv33cv33cv33 at gmail.com (BV)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:27:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <4d6f12c2-f596-4c50-af96-c9ee51e66aaa@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

In The Name Of Allah,
Most Gracious, Most Merciful
YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
MUHAMMAD

You may be an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to anyone of
the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may be
a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you
are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal
and social habits happen to be - YOU MUST STILL KNOW THIS MAN!
He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this
earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid
down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms,
established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent
his teachings, and completely revolutionized the worlds of human
thought and action for all times to come.
HIS NAME IS MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him
and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span
of twenty-three years.
Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him was born in
Arabia on the 20th of August, in the year 570 of the Christian era,
and when he died after 63 years, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula
had changed from paganism and idol-worship to the worship of One God;
from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion;
from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from
lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral
bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history
has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place
before or since!
The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all
religious personalities of the world". Bernard Shaw said about him
that if Muhammad were alive today he would succeed in solving all
those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our
times. Thomas Carlysle was simply amazed as to how one man, single-
handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most
powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and
Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines
established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.
Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such diverse
fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time,
as did Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him. He
was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a political
thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful
friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father -
all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in
any of these difficult departments of life.
The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one
sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields
such as religious thought or military leadership. None of the other
great leaders of the world ever combined in himself so many different
qualities to such an amazing level of perfection as did Muhammad,
peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him.
The lives and teachings of other great personalities of the world are
shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the
time and the place of their birth, the mode and style of their life,
the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of
their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity today to
reconstruct accurately and precisely the lives and teachings of those
men.
Not so this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him. Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history,
but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and
utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to
our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched
for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and
open-minded scholars.
At the level of ideas there is no system of thought and belief-secular
or religious, social or political-which could surpass or equal ISLAM-
the system which Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him propounded. In a fast changing world, while other systems have
undergone profound transformations, Islam alone has remained above all
change and mutation, and retained its original form for the past 1400
years. What is more, the positive changes that are taking place in the
world of human thought and behavior, truly and consistently reflect
the healthy influence of Islam in these areas. Further, it is not
given to the best of thinkers to put their ideas completely into
practice, and to see the seeds of their labors grow and bear fruit, in
their own lifetime. Except of course, Muhammad, peace and blessings of
God Almighty be upon him, who not only preached the most wonderful
ideas but also successfully translated each one of them into practice
in his own lifetime. At the time of his death his teachings were not
mere precepts and ideas straining for fulfillment, but had become the
very core of the life of tens of thousands of perfectly trained
individuals, each one of whom was a marvelous personification of
everything that Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him taught and stood for. At what other time or place and in relation
to what other political, social, religious system, philosophy or
ideology-did the world ever witness such a perfectly amazing
phenomenon?
Indeed no other system or ideology secular or religious, social or
political, ancient or modern - could ever claim the distinction of
having been put into practice in its fullness and entirety EVEN ONCE
in this world, either before or after the death of its founder. Except
of course ISLAM, the ideology preached by Muhammad, peace and
blessings of God Almighty be upon him which was established as a
complete way of life by the teacher himself, before he departed from
this world. History bears testimony to this fact and the greatest
skeptics have no option but to concede this point.
In spite of these amazing achievements and in spite of the countless
absolutely convincing and authentic miracles performed by him and the
phenomenal success which crowned his efforts, he did not for a moment
claim to be God or God's incarnation or Son - but only a human being
who was chosen and ordained by God to be a teacher of truth to man
kind and a complete model and pattern for their actions.
He was nothing more or less than a human being. But he was a man with
a noble and exalted mission-and his unique mission was to unite
humanity on the worship of ONE AND ONLY GOD and to teach them the way
to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands
of God. He always described himself as A MESSENGER AND SERVANT OF GOD,
and so indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him
to be.
A world which has not hesitated to raise to Divinity individuals whose
very lives and missions have been lost in legend and who historically
speaking did not accomplish half as much-or even one tenth-as was
accomplished by Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him should stop to take serious note of this remarkable man's claim to
be God's messenger to mankind.
Today after the lapse of some 1400 years the life and teachings of
Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him,
have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation.
Today they offer the same undying hope for treating mankind's many
ills which they did when Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God
Almighty be upon him, was alive. This is our honest claim and this is
the inescapable conclusion forced upon us by a critical and unbiased
study of history.
The least YOU should do as a thinking, sensitive, concerned human
being is to stop for one brief moment and ask yourself: Could it be
that these statements, extraordinary and revolutionary as they sound,
are really true? Supposing they really are true, and you did not know
this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him or
hear about his teachings? Or did not know him well and intimately
enough to be able to benefit from his guidance and example? Isn't it
time you responded to this tremendous challenge and made some effort
to know him? It will not cost you anything but it may well prove to be
the beginning of a completely new era in your life.
Come, let us make a new discovery of the life of this wonderful man
Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him the like of
whom never walked on this earth, and whose example and teachings can
change YOUR LIFE and OUR WORLD for the better. May God shower His
choicest blessings upon him!



IF YOU WISH TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ISLAM, WE PREFER TO VISIT THE FOLLOWING
WEBSITES:

http://www.islam-guide.com

http://www.islamhouse.com/s/9661

http://www.thisistruth.org

http://www.quran-m.com/firas/en1

http://kaheel7.com/eng

http://www.knowmuhammad.com

http://www.rasoulallah.net/v2/index.aspx?lang=e

 http://imanway1.com/eng

http://www.todayislam.com

http://www.thekeytoislam.com

http://www.islamland.com

http://www.discoverislam.com

http://www.thetruereligion.org

http://www.beconvinced.com

http://islamtomorrow.com

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran

http://www.quranforall.org

http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org

http://www.chatislamonline.org/ar

http://www.dar-us-salam.com

http://youtubeislam.com


From aszeszo at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 13:49:40 2011
From: aszeszo at gmail.com (Andrzej Szeszo)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:49:40 +0000
Subject: [oi-dev] DTrace probes in Python 2.7 (and next 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es>
References: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <4ECE91C4.2040208@gmail.com>

Hi Jesus

Just noticed that there is a python 2.7 package in Oracle's userland 
repo here:

<http://hg.openindiana.org/upstream/oracle/userland-gate/file/ea6a3f09379c/components/python/python27>

It includes DTrace patch. Did you see/use that?

Andrzej

On 24/11/2011 16:46, Jesus Cea wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have spend some time trying to integrate DTrace probes in official
> Python: Currently I have a patch to python 2.7, and my plan in to
> integrate officially in 3.3.
>
> The initial probes were based on previous work from OpenSolaris, and
> similar, but currently I have quite a few more probes. Current details
> in
> <http://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/file/b1a39702dfd8/Doc/library/dtrace.rst>
>
> The probes are tested under Solaris 10 x86 and x86-64. I would need
> somebody to try on Solaris 10 Sparc (32 and 64 bits), Solaris 11,
> OpenIndiana, FreeBSD (seems to need a kernel recompilation to enable
> user mode tracing, check Google), Mac (I doubt it works as is), etc.,
> any other platform running DTrace. What about SystemTap compatibility?
>
> Details:<http://bugs.python.org/issue13405>
>
> How to check:<http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg147706>.
>
> The easier way to get the patch is to clone my repository at
> <https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/>  (with mercurial) and move to the
> branch "dtrace-issue13405_2.7". Keep the clone around if you plan to
> try future versions of this patch, including the future 3.3 version.
>
> You can manually apply the patch in
> <http://bugs.python.org/file23758/a9f4ae43fd85.diff>  to python 2.7.2+
> sourcecode. The patch is developed against version 3c3009f63700
> (2011-11-14). It might not apply cleanly to 2.7.2 sourcecode (not
> checked). I will provide a direct patch to 2.7.3 when available. Maybe
> to 2.7.2 if there is demand.
>
> This is still work in progress. I will improve support with your
> feedback. I am considering probes to monitor GIL and thinking how to
> monitor C function calls from Python in an easy and fast way. Feedback
> very welcomed.
>
> Please, if you care about this, test it and provide some feedback :).
>
> PS: Better post feedback in the bug tracker that by personal email :-).
>
> - -- 
> Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
> jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
> .                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
> "Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> "My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
> "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iQCVAwUBTs50+Jlgi5GaxT1NAQKWUwQAnl99nFd6nM5yiPGl8yw4/YR81BTIS563
> 3wyPz74o5wAE3k9quexr+UPCndPogiH6nhnJ9DNXfUpVyaouGG/tGEbZn/x+h7Dv
> jc5616IRnHxGAxxuoTscCRRN88zsPVY6i71QMxK2BOS+zXMdcrsBajLrmx1UIzHY
> Elr7fq8L988=
> =uQM5
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev at openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 24 16:18:59 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:18:59 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 2:29 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> On 11/23/2011 12:38 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> So unless Alan Meyer has further interest in this, it looks like it's at
>> an end.
>>
>> It may be time to move on to c++.
>>
>
> C++ is a ton of fun. You haven't lived until you've made a syntax error
> in a template instantiation and seen a hundred cascading error messages
> from included files that you didn't know you included.
>
> Unlike Python, it really builds character.
>
> I say, go for it!
>
> Alan
So posting the results of the adventure you put me on has no further way 
to proceed?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 24 16:22:51 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:22:51 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>

Whoops, I thought I was replying to Matt Meyers just above you. However, 
I think he chimed in above about ActiveState back on the 22nd.

In any case, I think this thread has ceased to be productive.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Nov 24 16:24:06 2011
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:24:06 -0800
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2981.1322072948.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2981.1322072948.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jamclq$861$3@dont-email.me>

On 11/23/2011 10:29 AM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> On 23 November 2011 17:38, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
> [...]
>> It may be time to move on to c++.
>
> Good Luck.  Bye!
>
"Wellll, pardoooon meee." -- Steve Martin


From dbinks at codeaurora.org  Thu Nov 24 16:41:50 2011
From: dbinks at codeaurora.org (Dominic Binks)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:41:50 -0800
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECEBA1E.4020405@codeaurora.org>

On 11/23/2011 10:36 PM, Ricardo Mansilla wrote:
> Hi everyone..
> My question is exactly as in the subject of This Mail.
> I have made a Python  script which is to slow and i have heard (and common sense also suggest) that if you use some libraries to "frozen" the script the performance improves substantially. So I need to know; is This a myth or it is a fact?
> Thanks in advance for your time.

Depending on the code you have pypy may be faster - I've seen it both 
significantly faster and about the same as CPython.

-- 
Dominic Binks: dbinks at codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Nov 24 17:28:28 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:28:28 +1100
Subject: reading optional configuration from a file
References: <q0o1q8-tiv.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <8739dd6tpv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> writes:

> I have a few tests that require a network connection. Typically, the
> target will be localhost on port 20000. However, sometimes these
> settings differ, so I want to be able to optionally set them.

I subscribe to the view that an application's user-configurable settings
should be data, not executable code.

For this purpose, you will want to investigate the Python standard
library modules ?json? <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/json> and
?configparser? <URL:http://docs.python.org/library/configparser>.

-- 
 \        ?I saw a sign: ?Rest Area 25 Miles?. That's pretty big. Some |
  `\                      people must be really tired.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From alex.kapps at web.de  Thu Nov 24 18:18:44 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:18:44 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ECED0D4.6080501@web.de>

On 24.11.2011 22:22, W. eWatson wrote:
> Whoops, I thought I was replying to Matt Meyers just above you.

Above who? As said by somebody already, most people use a 
mail-client (Thunderbird/Outlook) or a Usenet client to read this 
forum. Google Groups is (In My Opinion at least) just crap (and 
should be blocked/forbidden. It's *the* one spam sender already)
Please always post enough context,

Now, we are talking about Python 3.2.* on Win7, correct? I only have 
Win7 32bit in a VBox VM, but still.

Please paste the following into a "python.reg", file, then 
right-click on that file and choose the fist option (the one wihch 
is in bold font, something like install/insert/insert or however 
it's called in your language. In my German versin it's called 
"Zusammenf?hren")

Do you get an "Edit with IDLE" then?




Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File]
@="Python File"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\DefaultIcon]
@="C:\\Python32\\DLLs\\py.ico"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\Edit with IDLE\command]
@="\"C:\\Python32\\pythonw.exe\" 
\"C:\\Python32\\Lib\\idlelib\\idle.pyw\" -e \"%1\""

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open\command]
@="\"C:\\Python32\\python.exe\" \"%1\" %*"




From alex.kapps at web.de  Thu Nov 24 18:37:03 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:37:03 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ECED0D4.6080501@web.de>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<4ECED0D4.6080501@web.de>
Message-ID: <4ECED51F.2000106@web.de>

On 25.11.2011 00:18, Alexander Kapps wrote:

> Do you get an "Edit with IDLE" then?

And even if not. Why are you so obsessive about IDLE? I mean, 
seriously, IDLE is just a bare-level if-nothing-else-is-available 
editor/IDE. It's better than notepad, OK.

I really don't buy it, that your are willing to move to C++ (or even 
just change the language) just because the default editor is not 
available in the context menu.


From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Nov 24 19:01:22 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:01:22 +0100
Subject: [oi-dev] DTrace probes in Python 2.7 (and next 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <4ECE91C4.2040208@gmail.com>
References: <4ECE74F8.5050208@jcea.es> <4ECE91C4.2040208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECEDAD2.5060301@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 24/11/11 19:49, Andrzej Szeszo wrote:
> Hi Jesus
> 
> Just noticed that there is a python 2.7 package in Oracle's
> userland repo here:
> 
> <http://hg.openindiana.org/upstream/oracle/userland-gate/file/ea6a3f09379c/components/python/python27>
>
> 
> 
> It includes DTrace patch. Did you see/use that?

That was my starting point.

Talking about that... How is the license going?. Mailing the guy...

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQCVAwUBTs7a0plgi5GaxT1NAQLNUAP/WUopUbet5NN5K1kgJ6/5KNJFX/HMXqIl
JXWXHro72f3SFuWws1QL82nos/nhVn5JQkkc3sRDwi3EV0dFM2Zi9BS8paHfOrQi
2qNNbvnTMzGKjZ9ZQrhiC+aSfr5qG6ou53mtQch53W7v15t7flqrDWr/VqlKxRWO
xn0P8WzSC8g=
=G9Ie
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 19:04:04 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 00:04:04 GMT
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:25:23 -0600, Tony the Tiger wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:43:20 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>> Windows PowerShell includes more than one hundred basic core cmdlets,
>> and you can write your own cmdlets and share them with other users.
> 
> Oh, goodie! They've found yet another way to infect a Windows system. :)

My Linux system includes compilers or interpreters for C, Pascal, 
Haskell, Forth, Python, Ruby, PHP, Javascript, Java, bash, csh, zsh, sh, 
awk, sed, Perl, SQL, Tcl, Tk, OpenXion, and very likely others. Most of 
these were supplied by the vendor. I could write my own executable code, 
"cmdlets" if you will, in any of these languages, and share them with 
others.

So by your reasoning, that's at least 20 ways to infect my Linux system. 
I never realised just how insecure Linux must be!

If "sharing code" is considered to be synonymous with "infection", what 
does that say about the Free and Open Source Software movement?



Linux-users-aren't-the-only-people-allowed-to-write-shell-scripts-ly y'rs,


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 19:16:06 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 00:16:06 GMT
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:18:44 +0100, Alexander Kapps wrote:

> Now, we are talking about Python 3.2.* on Win7, correct? I only have
> Win7 32bit in a VBox VM, but still.

I believe that W. eWatson's problems occurred when he installed a 32-bit 
version of Python 3.2 on a 64-bit version of Windows 7. Either the 32-bit 
installer doesn't set the default file associations correctly on 64-bit 
systems, or W. eWatson has mangled his registry by making arbitrary 
changes to file associations, and now even the correct 64-bit installer 
can't set the associations correctly.

As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has 
chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE 
doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up 
due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken 
his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.

Fixing the associations is a Windows issue, not a Python issue. Even if 
it turns out that the installer does neglect to set up menu commands for 
IDLE (which should be reported as a feature request on the bug tracker), 
this is not a problem best solved here, although we can do our best. It 
would be best solved on a Window forum, where experts on Windows can give 
advice.


-- 
Steven


From alex.kapps at web.de  Thu Nov 24 19:32:08 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:32:08 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ECEE208.9010602@web.de>

On 25.11.2011 01:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> So by your reasoning, that's at least 20 ways to infect my Linux system.
> I never realised just how insecure Linux must be!

Yes, there are 20+ ways to "infect" your (and mine) Linux system. 
You cannot trust *any* kind of 3rd party code. Period.

Have you ever added a 3rd party repo (PPA or such). Have you ever 
added some Firefox addon or installed some 3rd-party addition (of 
any kind) to some program)

Where is the protection now?

The main difference here is, that Linux makes it easy to seperate 
administrative accounts from end-user accounts,

The custom addon/cmdlet/whatever I give you has the same dangers on 
Linux as on windows. If you blindly install it, you're owned!

> If "sharing code" is considered to be synonymous with "infection", what
> does that say about the Free and Open Source Software movement?

Completely besides the topic. It's not about "sharing code", but 
about the seperation between normal and administrative user on the 
OS level (which Windows still doesn't have by default).

> Linux-users-aren't-the-only-people-allowed-to-write-shell-scripts-ly y'rs,

But-Linux-Users-aren't-root-by-default-ly y'rs.

:)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 24 19:51:10 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:51:10 -0500
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jamoqh$b55$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/24/2011 7:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?

The first killer app for Python was running Fortran code from within 
Python. People use Python for both pre- and post-processing. For small 
jobs, this enabled running Fortran interactively.

This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and 
other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py 
(fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it 
has been years since I read the details).

Detailed questions might get better answers on, for instance, a scipy list.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 24 20:06:24 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <jampn3$fpr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/24/2011 7:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> doesn't show up,

On the contrary, back when he first posted, I stated that 64-bit Python 
3.2.2 on my 64-bit Windows 7 works fine, just as he wants it to.

> so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.

I also noted that I had slightly screwed up my previous machine, and the 
installers never fixed up the deviation. So I gave him a better 
alternative that I use. He has ignored that and most everything else I 
posted.

When he later revealed that IDLE does not run by any means, that he 
should fix *that* before worrying about right-clicks.

> Fixing the associations is a Windows issue, not a Python issue. Even if
> it turns out that the installer does neglect to set up menu commands for
> IDLE (which should be reported as a feature request on the bug tracker),

The installer for each version has been setting up commands for IDLE for 
perhaps a decade or more.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 21:19:56 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:19:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Return of an old friend
Message-ID: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello Fellow Pythonistas,

I am very glad to be back after an unfortunate incident caused my
Google account to be deleted. Unfortunately for those of you that have
been following along and supporting my crusade to bring fairness and
humility to the python community, my old posts under "rantingrick"
have all been deleted from Google Groups. However, you can always
search the python-list archives if you need a jog down memory lane.

Actually this accidental deletion may have been a good thing as i've
had some extra time to muse on the innards of Python4000.

In any event, this announcement is intended to be a new call to arms
for my brothers and sisters who fight the good fight, and for those of
you who despise me , well, this might be a good time to add my new
moniker to your kill files.

Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving everyone!


From aljosa.mohorovic at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:00:52 2011
From: aljosa.mohorovic at gmail.com (Aljosa Mohorovic)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:00:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: memory leaks - tools and docs
Message-ID: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

i've been trying to find memory leaks in a wsgi application using
gunicorn to run it and after a lot of time invested in research and
testing tools i did find a lot of useful information (most really old)
but i'm left with a feeling that this should be easier, better
documented and with tools that generate better data.

if anybody can share some tips, links, docs or better tools with
better reports i would really appreciate it.
i'm not against paying for a good tool so any recommendation is
appreciated.

i mostly used http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/#Heapy but found
http://pysizer.8325.org/ and http://code.google.com/p/pympler/ also
interesting.

Aljosa


From mcfletch at vrplumber.com  Thu Nov 24 22:17:11 2011
From: mcfletch at vrplumber.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:17:11 -0500
Subject: memory leaks - tools and docs
In-Reply-To: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF08B7.9070201@vrplumber.com>

On 11-11-24 10:00 PM, Aljosa Mohorovic wrote:
> i've been trying to find memory leaks in a wsgi application using
> gunicorn to run it and after a lot of time invested in research and
> testing tools i did find a lot of useful information (most really old)
> but i'm left with a feeling that this should be easier, better
> documented and with tools that generate better data.
>
> if anybody can share some tips, links, docs or better tools with
> better reports i would really appreciate it.
> i'm not against paying for a good tool so any recommendation is
> appreciated.
>
> i mostly used http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/#Heapy but found
> http://pysizer.8325.org/ and http://code.google.com/p/pympler/ also
> interesting.
>
> Aljosa
Meliae is a similar tool wrt collecting memory-usage information.

RunSnakeRun can process Meliae dumps to produce visualizations of the
memory used in the process.

HTH,
Mike

https://launchpad.net/meliae
http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/runsnakerun/

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com

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From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:27:12 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:27:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1342091.65.1322191632498.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmu26>

On Friday, November 25, 2011 8:51:10 AM UTC+8, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/24/2011 7:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> > I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> > like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> > Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> > it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> > for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> > heavy computation?
> 
> The first killer app for Python was running Fortran code from within 
> Python. People use Python for both pre- and post-processing. For small 
> jobs, this enabled running Fortran interactively.
> 
> This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and 
> other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py 
> (fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it 
> has been years since I read the details).
> 
> Detailed questions might get better answers on, for instance, a scipy list.
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy

If pyhthon just handles the user interface and glue logics of well written python modules that are most written c, the speed of running python pyc  is OK. 
  
Of course the object reference updating required  in OOP is completely supported by python. 





From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:27:12 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:27:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1342091.65.1322191632498.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmu26>

On Friday, November 25, 2011 8:51:10 AM UTC+8, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/24/2011 7:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> > I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> > like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> > Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> > it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> > for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> > heavy computation?
> 
> The first killer app for Python was running Fortran code from within 
> Python. People use Python for both pre- and post-processing. For small 
> jobs, this enabled running Fortran interactively.
> 
> This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and 
> other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py 
> (fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it 
> has been years since I read the details).
> 
> Detailed questions might get better answers on, for instance, a scipy list.
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy

If pyhthon just handles the user interface and glue logics of well written python modules that are most written c, the speed of running python pyc  is OK. 
  
Of course the object reference updating required  in OOP is completely supported by python. 





From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:37:30 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: suitability of python
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.3017.1322182301.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f7025557-13fe-4b72-863b-fd91c0aca9e5@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>

Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> This lead to Numerical Python, now Numpy, SciPy, and later Sage and
> other scientific and Python packages. I believe SciPy has an f2py
> (fortran to py) module to help with running Fortran under Python (but it
> has been years since I read the details).

Andrew Dalke recently did some work on f2pypy, as a step toward
running Fortran under PyPy:

http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2011/11/09/f2pypy.html

If PyPy's Numpy support was more advanced, I'd probably recommend the
OP start there.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:47:29 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:47:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function:
> Open a cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>
> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window.
> Do some random cmd stuff: dir, cd, etc.
>
> Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back
> the previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you
> entered in the surrounding shell)

This isn't true, at least not for ActivePython 2.7.2.5 under Windows
7-64. The second session has no history whatsoever.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:49:46 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:49:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 24, 6:51?pm, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> The
> Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows (a la Ctrl-D
> on Linux).

With ActivePython, Ctrl-D works as well, which is a godsend as I'm
constantly working across Windows & linux.

> In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
> the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
> history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
> and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
> into the cmd shell.

And again, I'm definitely not seeing this. Inside the one cmd shell,
each instance of Python has no recollection of the history of the last.


From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Nov 24 23:05:11 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:05:11 +0100
Subject: memory leaks - tools and docs
In-Reply-To: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <b614231a-5c14-41b7-9255-e2e02b93a736@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jan45o$6s8$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 25.11.2011 04:00, schrieb Aljosa Mohorovic:
> i mostly used http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/#Heapy but found
> http://pysizer.8325.org/ and http://code.google.com/p/pympler/ also
> interesting.

Guppy is a extremely powerful tool because it can also track non GC
objects without a debug build of Python. I only wished it would have a
user friendly and easy to script interface. The _.more thing is killing
me. :(

I'm using a very simple and almost for free approach to keep track of
memory usage with psutil. After every unit test case I store RSS and VM
size with psutil.Process(os.getpid()).get_memory_info(),
threading.active_count(), len(gc.garbage) and len(gc.get_objects()). It
doesn't show what's going wrong, but it helps me to isolate the code
paths, that may introduce memory leaks and reference cycles. Since we
use continuous integration (Jenkins) I can track down regressions more
easily, too.

Christian



From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 23:06:26 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:06:26 -0500
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jan484$51p$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/24/2011 07:31 AM, Rudra Banerjee wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?
> Any comment or reference is welcome.
>

I would expect that a language that compiles intensive math programming 
to machine language will be much more than an order of magnitude faster 
than a program that does the same thing by interpreting byte code.

If you study all of the Python math libraries I'm guessing you'll find 
modules that do a lot, conceivably all, of what you want in compiled 
machine language, but when held together with Python it may or may not 
be as efficient as fortran.  I'm guessing there's not much out there 
that is as efficient as fortran for purely numerical work.

I think your division of labor using fortran for the CPU intensive math 
parts and python for post-processing is a pretty good one.  It takes 
advantage of the strength of each language.  In addition, it completely 
separates the two parts so that they aren't really dependent on each 
other.  You can change the fortran any way you want without breaking the 
python code as long as you output the same format, and of course you can 
change the python any way you want. Programs in each language don't even 
have to know that any other language is involved.

My only suggestion is to see if you can get a profiler to see what's 
happening inside that weeks long running fortran program.  You might 
find some surprises.  I once wrote a 5,000 line program that was slower 
than I had hoped.  I ran it through a profiler and it showed me that I 
was spending more than 50 percent of my time on one single line of my 
code that called a simple library routine ("strcpy").  I wrote the 
simple library routine inline instead adding just a few lines of code. 
It cut the total execution time of the whole program in half.

     Alan


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Nov 24 23:37:21 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 04:37:21 GMT
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me> <jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3018.1322183218.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecf1b80$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:06:24 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 11/24/2011 7:16 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7
>> has chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
>> doesn't show up,
> 
> On the contrary, back when he first posted, I stated that 64-bit Python
> 3.2.2 on my 64-bit Windows 7 works fine, just as he wants it to.

Ah, sorry about that Terry! This thread, or multiple threads, is long and 
confusing and I obviously haven't been able to keep track of who said 
what.



-- 
Steven


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 00:08:17 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:08:17 +1100
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.

Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Fellow Pythonistas,
>
> I am very glad to be back after an unfortunate incident caused my
> Google account to be deleted. Unfortunately for those of you that have
> been following along and supporting my crusade to bring fairness and
> humility to the python community, my old posts under "rantingrick"
> have all been deleted from Google Groups. However, you can always
> search the python-list archives if you need a jog down memory lane.
>
> Actually this accidental deletion may have been a good thing as i've
> had some extra time to muse on the innards of Python4000.
>
> In any event, this announcement is intended to be a new call to arms
> for my brothers and sisters who fight the good fight, and for those of
> you who despise me , well, this might be a good time to add my new
> moniker to your kill files.
>
> Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving everyone!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From 6brisk at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 00:23:13 2011
From: 6brisk at gmail.com (brisk brisk)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:23:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: online form filling jobs
Message-ID: <f14af5e1-25d0-48eb-acf9-2eb208039b4c@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>

online form filling jobs
http://onlinejobsprocess.weebly.com/


From zpengxen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 01:52:25 2011
From: zpengxen at gmail.com (ZhouPeng)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:52:25 +0800
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
Message-ID: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

In my program, I get a listen element by
listen = graphics.find("listen")

print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20>
print type listen is <type 'instance'>
I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.

But print bool(listen) is False
if not listen  is True

-- 
Zhou Peng


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 03:04:11 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:04:11 +1100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jan6og$jlt$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<jan6og$jlt$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrxe+6DzsrF3tHyEtQHY2Z8fAQtiByrnYvH0h8zJap82A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2011 00:04:04 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>
>> My Linux system includes compilers or interpreters for C, Pascal,
>> Haskell, Forth, Python, Ruby, PHP, Javascript, Java, bash, csh, zsh, sh,
>> awk, sed, Perl, SQL, Tcl, Tk, OpenXion, and very likely others. Most of
>
> ? ? ? ?What? No REXX? <G>
>
> ? ? ? ?{Granted, other than IBM's mainframes, the only decent REXX
> implementation [heck, maybe even better] was the Amiga version -- it was
> integrated well into the Amiga message passing IPC system, such that
> pretty much any application with an ARexx port could connect to and
> control any other application with an ARexx port}

IBM's non-mainframes too - their OS/2 implementation was - and still
is - awesome. I use REXX for a variety of odds and ends, everything
from simple scripts up to full-on GUI applications. Yes, we still use
OS/2 (as well as Windows and Linux - mixed LANs are fun).

ChrisA


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Nov 25 03:14:36 2011
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:14:36 +0000
Subject: MailingLogger 3.6.0 Released!
Message-ID: <4ECF4E6C.3050308@simplistix.co.uk>

I'm pleased to announce a new release of Mailinglogger.

Mailinglogger provides two handlers for the standard python
logging framework that enable log entries to be emailed either as the
entries are logged or as a summary at the end of the running process.

The handlers have the following features:

- customisable and dynamic subject lines for emails sent

- emails sent with a configurable headers for easy filtering

- flood protection to ensure the number of emails sent is not excessive

- support for SMTP servers that require authentication

- fully documented and tested

The only change for this release is to allow summaries sent by 
SummarisingLogger to contain messages logged at a lower level than those 
which triggered the summary to be emailed.

Full docs can be found here:

http://packages.python.org/mailinglogger/

For more information, please see:
http://www.simplistix.co.uk/software/python/mailinglogger
or
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailinglogger

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk





From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 03:46:17 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:46:17 +1100
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
In-Reply-To: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqgqxWQMfAO6LWwSN64RivHq6TYALkB9PJkj-Ey9y6yuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:52 PM, ZhouPeng <zpengxen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
>
> But print bool(listen) is False
> if not listen ?is True

Casting something to boolean follows strict rules derived from the
notion that emptiness is false and nonemptiness is true. For instance:

>>> bool(""),bool([]),bool({}),bool(0)
(False, False, False, False)

Details here: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html

Chris Angelico


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Nov 25 03:58:30 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:58:30 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF58B6.1060906@timgolden.me.uk>

On 25/11/2011 03:47, alex23 wrote:
> Tim Golden<m... at timgolden.me.uk>  wrote:
>> The interpreter inherits the command shell's history function:
>> Open a cmd window and then a Python session. Do some stuff.
>>
>> Ctrl-Z to exit to the surrounding cmd window.
>> Do some random cmd stuff: dir, cd, etc.
>>
>> Start a second Python session. up-arrow etc. will bring back
>> the previous Python session's commands (and not the ones you
>> entered in the surrounding shell)
>
> This isn't true, at least not for ActivePython 2.7.2.5 under Windows
> 7-64. The second session has no history whatsoever.

Well I don't know what to say. It works for me with an almost
identical setup. (ActivePython 2.7.1.4 Win7 x64). And has worked
for me over countless setups on different machines / versions of
Windows / versions of Python etc.

Do you have the pyreadline module installed? ISTR that that takes
over from the standard cmd processing...

TJG


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Nov 25 03:59:41 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Nov 2011 08:59:41 GMT
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
References: <mailman.3026.1322203948.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecf58fd$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:52:25 +0800, ZhouPeng wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> In my program, I get a listen element by listen =
> graphics.find("listen")

What is a listen element? It is not a standard Python object. What 
library is it from?


> print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20> print type listen is <type
> 'instance'> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
> 
> But print bool(listen) is False

What makes you think this is a strange result? Many things are false:

py> for obj in (None, [], {}, 0, 0.0, "", 42):
...     print bool(obj),
... 
False False False False False False True


-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 25 04:06:05 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:06:05 +0100
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>

ZhouPeng wrote:

> In my program, I get a listen element by
> listen = graphics.find("listen")
> 
> print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20>
> print type listen is <type 'instance'>
> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
> 
> But print bool(listen) is False
> if not listen  is True

bool(listen) is False here means that the Element has no children.

Quoting
http://effbot.org/zone/elementtree-13-intro.htm#truth-testing

"""
Truth testing #
The Element type now issues a warning when used in a ?boolean context?. To 
get rid of the warning, make the test explicit:
if len(elem):
    ... has at least one children ...

elem = root.find("tag")
if elem is not None:
    ... found ...
Explicit tests work just fine in ET 1.2, of course.
The boolean interpretation will most likely change in future versions, so 
that all elements evaluate to true, also if they have no children.
"""





From zpengxen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:09:43 2011
From: zpengxen at gmail.com (ZhouPeng)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:09:43 +0800
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
In-Reply-To: <janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAAh7U5PnhrJYSfGsP=JoOOtm_LBaxPCV6R1Gw=8L4F7T2fLQmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all.

I am a c/c++ programer before,
So I directly think it is the same roughly between

if not obj: (in python) and if (!obj) {(in c/c++)

/ if obj: (in python) and if (obj) {(in c/c++)

That if obj is not None, 'if obj:' goes true branch, 'if not obj:'
goes false branch,
and I don't need to care where the obj is from (what type or what lib)

But, Now it seem not be consistent, so I feel strange.
And it seem be obj's library related in python.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>What is a listen element? It is not a standard Python object. What
>library is it from?
from xml.etree.ElementTree

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> ZhouPeng wrote:
>
>> In my program, I get a listen element by
>> listen = graphics.find("listen")
>>
>> print listen is <Element listen at 6afc20>
>> print type listen is <type 'instance'>
>> I am sure listen is not None and can be accessed properly.
>>
>> But print bool(listen) is False
>> if not listen ?is True
>
> bool(listen) is False here means that the Element has no children.
> Quoting
> http://effbot.org/zone/elementtree-13-intro.htm#truth-testing
Thanks,
> """
> Truth testing #
> The Element type now issues a warning when used in a ?boolean context?. To
> get rid of the warning, make the test explicit:
> if len(elem):
> ? ?... has at least one children ...
>
> elem = root.find("tag")
> if elem is not None:
> ? ?... found ...
> Explicit tests work just fine in ET 1.2, of course.
> The boolean interpretation will most likely change in future versions, so
> that all elements evaluate to true, also if they have no children.
> """
Yea,  you are right.
And I got it later, when I run my program in python 2.7.2,
It complains:
FutureWarning: The behavior of this method will change in future versions.
Use specific 'len(elem)' or 'elem is not None' test instead. if not graphics:
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-- 
Zhou Peng


From enalicho at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:13:00 2011
From: enalicho at gmail.com (Noah Hall)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:13:00 +0000
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOv69sahmyTsd7k-NE20GPP0ALWeRRUDkJo_TtwOEOX63pmAPw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joiner <anacrolix at gmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.
>
> Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?

Ignore him, he's a troll with an unjustly inflated ego.


From onlinedollarsgroups at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:33:25 2011
From: onlinedollarsgroups at gmail.com (onlinedollars earning)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:33:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Amazing website!!!
Message-ID: <93aa2e6b-60c8-4aef-8ef6-ed6407c008a2@x30g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hai,
      I have a tips for earn money from home.Just go to
http://onlinedollarsgroups.blogspot.com/2011/11/blog-post_25.html
this
weblink.Then  click open new tab via that link.One new website will
display,then sign up this,and
earn money (or)and get any products in low price,offers etc.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Nov 25 05:37:14 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:37:14 +0100
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 25.11.2011 04:49, schrieb alex23:
> On Nov 24, 6:51 pm, Tim Golden<m... at timgolden.me.uk>  wrote:
>> The Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows
>> (a la Ctrl-D on Linux).
>
> With ActivePython, Ctrl-D works as well, which is a godsend as I'm
> constantly working across Windows&  linux.
>
>> In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
>> the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
>> history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
>> and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
>> into the cmd shell.
>
> And again, I'm definitely not seeing this. Inside the one cmd shell,
> each instance of Python has no recollection of the history of the
> last.

I'm seeing history browsing in Python on MS Windows XP here and it also 
works for every other commandline-based program. Well, it seems with the 
exception of the ActivePython distribution of Python. That one 
intentionally changes the MS Windows defaults like Control-Z behaviour 
and at the same time, maybe even as a side effect, it breaks the shell's 
history browsing.

You don't happen to have an installation of the vanilla Python 
distribution to test, do you? This is getting me curious...

Uli


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:42:50 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 21:42:50 +1100
Subject: Strange result ffor object to bool
In-Reply-To: <CAAh7U5PnhrJYSfGsP=JoOOtm_LBaxPCV6R1Gw=8L4F7T2fLQmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAh7U5O-9u8b2=t3X8yfLdH_axEBoz1fQbr5=LTT2EYjoJVMvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<janlpd$8mm$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CAAh7U5PnhrJYSfGsP=JoOOtm_LBaxPCV6R1Gw=8L4F7T2fLQmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr52h=8hiW8qXfLX=pysqv90ZZmFVD0Jp6Z=yHKos=QPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:09 PM, ZhouPeng <zpengxen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks all.
> if not obj: (in python) and if (!obj) {(in c/c++)
>
> / if obj: (in python) and if (obj) {(in c/c++)
>

> Yea, ?you are right.
> And I got it later, when I run my program in python 2.7.2,
> It complains:
> FutureWarning: The behavior of this method will change in future versions.
> Use specific 'len(elem)' or 'elem is not None' test instead. if not graphics:

Yep, this is exactly what you need to do. Check if 'elem is None' to
see if it's there or not.

Chris Angelico


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:55:53 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:55:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4ECBEBEC.2010300@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <efe092bb-e7a9-458a-be09-a786574ce51f@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 22, 1:37?pm, Alan Meyer <amey... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/20/2011 7:46 PM, Travis Parks wrote:
>
> > Hello:
>
> > I am currently working on designing a new programming language. ...
>
> I have great respect for people who take on projects like this.
>
> Your chances of popularizing the language are small. ?There must be
> thousands of projects like this for every one that gets adopted by other
> people. ?However your chances of learning a great deal are large,
> including many things that you'll be able to apply to programs and
> projects that, at first glance, wouldn't appear to benefit from this
> kind of experience. ?If you get it working you'll have an impressive
> item to add to your resume.
>
> I suspect that you'll also have a lot of fun.
>
> Good luck with it.
>
> ? ? ?Alan

I've been learning a lot and having tons of fun just designing the
language. First, I get think about all of the language features that I
find useful. Then I get to learn a little bit how they work
internally.

For instance, functions are first-class citizens in Unit, supporting
closures. To make that happen meant wrapping such functions inside of
types and silently elavating local variables to reference counted
pointers.

Or, I realized that in order to support default arguments, I would
have to silently wrap parameters in types that were either set or not
set. That way calls to the default command could simply be replaced by
an if statement. It was a really subtle implementation detail.

It is also fun thinking about what makes sense. For instance, Unit
will support calling methods with named arguments. Originally, I
thought about using the '=' operator:

Foo(name="bob" age=64)

but, then I realized that the equals sign could be confused with
assignment. Those types of syntactic conflicts occur quite often and
lead to a lot of rethinking. Ultimately, somewhat good ideas get
replaced with much better ideas. I had been contemplating Unit for
months before the final look and feel of the language came into view.
It isn't what I started out imagining, but I think it turned out
better than I had originally planned.


Recently, I rethought how functions looked, since the headers were too
long:

alias Predicate = function<T> (value: & readonly T) throws()
returns(Boolean)
let Any = public function<T>
    (values: & readonly IIterable<T>)
    (?predicate: Predicate<T>)
    throws() # ArgumentNullException inherits from UncheckedException
    returns(Boolean): # this can be on one line
    default predicate = (function value: true)
    assert predicate != null "The predicate cannot be null."
ArgumentNullException
    for value in values:
        if predicate(value):
            return true
    return false

Most of the time, throws clauses, returns clauses and parameter type
constraints can be left off. Plus, now they can all appear on one
line. Assertions and default statements now appear in the body.
Assertions now optionally take a message and the exception type to
throw.

So, yeah, this has been an awesome project so far. I have dozens of
documents and I have been keeping up on a blog. I've even started
implementing a simple recursive descent parser just to make sure the
syntax doesn't conflict. Now it will be a matter of formally defining
a grammer and implementing the backend of the compiler... which I've
never done before. I have been thinking about compiling into a
language like C++ or C instead of assembler for my first time through.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 06:10:00 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 22:10:00 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <efe092bb-e7a9-458a-be09-a786574ce51f@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4ECBEBEC.2010300@yahoo.com>
	<efe092bb-e7a9-458a-be09-a786574ce51f@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoQd8Qrpayhx1DnDZLnFznB5tkiyRZOBTKFK7bDcrzt8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been thinking about compiling into a
> language like C++ or C instead of assembler for my first time through.

Yep, or any other language you feel like using as an intermediate. Or
alternatively, just start with an interpreter - whatever's easiest.
Compiling to C gives you a massive leg-up on portability; so does
writing an interpreter in C, as either way your language is easily
made available on every platform that gcc's been ported to.

As long as you're happy with the idea of building a massively language
that'll never be used by anybody but yourself, you can have immense
fun with this. And hey, Unit might turn out to be a beautiful niche
language, or even go mainstream.

But mainly, you'll have fun doing it. And if you're not having fun,
what's the use of living forever? (Oh wait, you're not a vampire from
Innistrad. Sorry about that.)

ChrisA


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 06:15:30 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:15:30 +0000
Subject: getting svn tag in version
Message-ID: <4ECF78D2.8000502@gmail.com>

Given a project with many eggs, I would like to make it easy to have all 
the version numbers synchronized
to the upper level SVN version.

So for example I might have svn tags
0.1,
0.2
and a development version.
The development version should get version -dev, and the others 0.1 and 0.2

I found few examples around that read and parse the .svn/entries file, 
is it really
the best way to do it?


From user at nospam.invalid  Fri Nov 25 06:24:44 2011
From: user at nospam.invalid (user)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:24:44 +0100
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
Message-ID: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>

In a Makefile (or sometimes inside python) I need the path to the 
root of the Python standard lib folder used by "env python".

e.g.  /usr/lib/python2.6/   or    C:\Python27\Lib\

what is the best/canonical way to get that?


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Nov 25 06:29:51 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:29:51 +0000
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4ECF7C2F.8090905@timgolden.me.uk>

On 25/11/2011 10:37, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Am 25.11.2011 04:49, schrieb alex23:
>> On Nov 24, 6:51 pm, Tim Golden<m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>>> The Ctrl-Z thing is what *exits* the interpreter on Windows
>>> (a la Ctrl-D on Linux).
>>
>> With ActivePython, Ctrl-D works as well, which is a godsend as I'm
>> constantly working across Windows& linux.
>>
>>> In short - on Windows, within one cmd shell you can open and exit
>>> the interpreter as many times as you like and the Python command
>>> history will be retained via the cmd shell's history mechanism,
>>> and kept distinct from the history of other things you may type
>>> into the cmd shell.
>>
>> And again, I'm definitely not seeing this. Inside the one cmd shell,
>> each instance of Python has no recollection of the history of the
>> last.
>
> I'm seeing history browsing in Python on MS Windows XP here and it also
> works for every other commandline-based program. Well, it seems with the
> exception of the ActivePython distribution of Python. That one
> intentionally changes the MS Windows defaults like Control-Z behaviour
> and at the same time, maybe even as a side effect, it breaks the shell's
> history browsing.

Except that, intriguingly, I'm also using an ActiveState distro
and it neither adds Ctrl-D nor prevents history. But I'm
fairly sure that pyreadline does both of those things.

TJG



From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Nov 25 07:31:10 2011
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:31:10 +0100
Subject: ANN: python-ldap 2.4.5
Message-ID: <mailman.3045.1322234765.27778.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new release of python-ldap:

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-ldap/2.4.4

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

Project's web site:

  http://www.python-ldap.org/

Ciao, Michael.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.4.5 2011-11-25

Changes since 2.4.4:

Installation:
* defines for SASL and SSL in setup.cfg to be more friendly to
  Python setup tools (easy_install)

Lib/
* Fixed typo in ldap.functions._ldap_function_call() which
  always released ldap._ldap_module_lock instead of local lock
* ldap.controls.ppolicy:
  Fixed decoding the password policy response control

Demo/
* Demo script for ldap.controls.ppolicy


From 1989lzhh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 07:47:11 2011
From: 1989lzhh at gmail.com (=?GB2312?B?wfXV8bqj?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:47:11 +0800
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
Message-ID: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can not
find a solution to do it.
I know the way to change the file creation timestamp in C under Windows,
but I want to change it using python.
I really need help!

Regards,
Liu Zhenhai
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From massi_srb at msn.com  Fri Nov 25 08:00:04 2011
From: massi_srb at msn.com (Massi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:00:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
Message-ID: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

in my project I have the following directory structure:

plugins
    |
    -- wav_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- WavPlug.py
    -- mp3_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- Mp3Plug.py
...
    -- etc_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- EtcPlug.py

Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
like that:

from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug

and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
how. Any hints?
Thanks in advance.



From d at davea.name  Fri Nov 25 08:08:08 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:08:08 -0500
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
In-Reply-To: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4ECF9338.1050007@davea.name>

On 11/25/2011 06:24 AM, user wrote:
> In a Makefile (or sometimes inside python) I need the path to the root 
> of the Python standard lib folder used by "env python".
>
> e.g.  /usr/lib/python2.6/   or    C:\Python27\Lib\
>
> what is the best/canonical way to get that?

You could look at sys.executable.  However, on my Linux, it's a symlink, 
so you have to dereference that to get the directory involved.

-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Fri Nov 25 08:18:30 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:18:30 -0500
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
In-Reply-To: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF95A6.20808@davea.name>

On 11/25/2011 08:00 AM, Massi wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> in my project I have the following directory structure:
>
> plugins
>      |
>      -- wav_plug
>            |
>            -- __init__.py
>            -- WavPlug.py
>      -- mp3_plug
>            |
>            -- __init__.py
>            -- Mp3Plug.py
> ...
>      -- etc_plug
>            |
>            -- __init__.py
>            -- EtcPlug.py
>
> Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
> to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
> like that:
>
> from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
> from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug
>
> and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
> have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
> through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
> the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
> I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
> how. Any hints?
> Thanks in advance.
>
I think the key to the problem is the __import__() function, which takes 
a string and returns a module object.  So you make a list of the fully 
qualified module names (filenames less the extension), and loop through 
that list,  Then for each one, you can extract items from the module.

It doesn't make sense to define the class names at your top-level, 
though, since you'd not have any code to reference any new plugin if it 
has a unique class name. So at some point, you're probably going to have 
a list or map of such class objects.



-- 

DaveA



From ironfroggy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 08:23:33 2011
From: ironfroggy at gmail.com (Calvin Spealman)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:23:33 -0500
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
In-Reply-To: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAGaVwhSGKffECg4RMRUw1mrn0HvLWWGrySADOf8SMc=i6oVyDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 6:24 AM, user <user at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In a Makefile (or sometimes inside python) I need the path to the root of
> the Python standard lib folder used by "env python".
>
> e.g. ?/usr/lib/python2.6/ ? or ? ?C:\Python27\Lib\
>
> what is the best/canonical way to get that?

This should get you what you're looking for. Just look relative to a
known stdlib module.

import os
stdlib_dir = os.path.dirname(os.__file__)

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Read my blog! I depend on your acceptance of my opinion! I am interesting!
http://techblog.ironfroggy.com/
Follow me if you're into that sort of thing: http://www.twitter.com/ironfroggy


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Nov 25 08:43:58 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:43:58 +0100
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
In-Reply-To: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ECF9B9E.704@sequans.com>

Massi wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> in my project I have the following directory structure:
>
> plugins
>     |
>     -- wav_plug
>           |
>           -- __init__.py
>           -- WavPlug.py
>     -- mp3_plug
>           |
>           -- __init__.py
>           -- Mp3Plug.py
> ...
>     -- etc_plug
>           |
>           -- __init__.py
>           -- EtcPlug.py
>
> Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
> to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
> like that:
>
> from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
> from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug
>
> and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
> have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
> through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
> the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
> I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
> how. Any hints?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>   
Hi,

Try something like (*untested code*)

plugins = {}
classes = {}

for plugin, className in [('wav_plug', 'WavPlug'), ('mp3_plug', 'Mp3Plug')]:
    plugins[plugin] = __import__(os.path.join('plugins', plugin, className))
    classes[className] = getattr(plugins[plugin], className)

# raise a keyError if the plugin has not been imported
wav = classes['wav_plug']()


Make sure all subdirs have the __init__.py file, including the plugins 
directory.

JM


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Fri Nov 25 08:50:01 2011
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:01 +0000
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to XML)
Message-ID: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:

input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
big_json = json.load(input_source)
input_source.close()

Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary), and I save the
document:

xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
xml_file.close()


I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
gives some errors like these on a few documents:

PCDATA invalid Char value 7
PCDATA invalid Char value 31

I guess I need to process each piece of PCDATA to clean out the
control characters before creating the text node:

  text = doc.createTextNode(j)
  root.appendChild(text)

What's the best way to do that, bearing in mind that there can be
multibyte characters in the strings?  I found some suggestions on the
WWW involving filter with string.printable, which AFAICT isn't
unicode-friendly --- is there a unicode.printable or something like
that?


-- 
"Mrs CJ and I avoid clich?s like the plague."


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 08:51:34 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:51:34 +1100
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
In-Reply-To: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGcu1a50hgjzNvq07-Axh=r0Y-=fydoc9oEkoQN6rZzHYw@mail.gmail.com>

import os
import time
from stat import *

#returns a list of all the files on the current directory
files = os.listdir('.')

for f in files:
  #my folder has some jpegs and raw images
  if f.lower().endswith('jpg') or f.lower().endswith('crw'):
    st = os.stat(f)
    atime = st[ST_ATIME] #access time
    mtime = st[ST_MTIME] #modification time

    new_mtime = mtime + (4*3600) #new modification time

    #modify the file timestamp
    os.utime(f,(atime,new_mtime))

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:47 PM, ??? <1989lzhh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can not
> find a solution to do it.
> I know the way to?change the file creation timestamp in C under Windows, but
> I want to change it using python.
> I really need help!
>
> Regards,
> Liu Zhenhai
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov 25 09:11:06 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:11:06 +0100
Subject: getting svn tag in version
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3036.1322219736.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3036.1322219736.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ecfa1fc$0$6909$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 25-11-2011 12:15, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> Given a project with many eggs, I would like to make it easy to have all the version
> numbers synchronized
> to the upper level SVN version.
> 
> So for example I might have svn tags
> 0.1,
> 0.2
> and a development version.
> The development version should get version -dev, and the others 0.1 and 0.2
> 
> I found few examples around that read and parse the .svn/entries file, is it really
> the best way to do it?

I wouldn't do that, you'll be dependent on the svn implementation. For instance, in svn
1.7, they changed the .svn folder.

Easiest is probably parsing the output of the command line svn:

svn info --xml


Irmen



From someone at someplace.invalid  Fri Nov 25 10:44:19 2011
From: someone at someplace.invalid (HoneyMonster)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:44:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.2696.1321268146.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaod4j$37c$1@news.albasani.net>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:55:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Tracubik <affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> i'm developing a new program.
>> Mission: learn a bit of database management
> 
> If your goal is to learn about databasing, then I strongly recommend a
> real database engine.
> 
>> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
>> sqlite at the beginning.
>>
>> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or
>> similar,
>> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> 
> The complexity, in most cases, is a direct consequence of the job at
> hand. I recommend PostgreSQL generally, although I've never used it with
> Python and can't speak for the quality of the APIs.
> 
> The most important thing to consider is a separation of the back end
> (the "guts") from the front end (the "interface"). Since your goal is to
> explore databases, the guts of your code will basically just be working
> with the database (no heavy computation or anything). Make sure you can
> work with that, separately from your GUI. You may find it easier to
> dispense with GTK and just work through the console; you can always
> change later to make a pretty window.
> 
> If you've never worked with databases before, it may be best to skip
> Python altogether and explore the fundamentals of relational database
> engines. There's plenty of excellent tutorials on the web. Get to know
> how things are done generally, and you'll be able to figure out how
> things are done in Python.

I agree that given "Mission: learn a bit of database management", Python 
is not really relevant at this stage. I also entirely concur with your 
recommendation of PostgreSQL.

Just for information, PostgreSQL works very well indeed with Psycopg (a 
PostgreSQL adapter for Python), but for learning purposes straightforward 
PSQL is best to start with.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 10:48:35 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:48:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to get path to Python standard library directory?
In-Reply-To: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <janttr$3e8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <1236612.727.1322236115510.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqoo7>

You can try

PYLIB = $(shell python -c 'import distutils.sysconfig; print distutils.sysconfig.get_python_lib()')

(or pack the long command line in a script).


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 10:49:43 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 02:49:43 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <jaod4j$37c$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.2696.1321268146.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jaod4j$37c$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=O4v46s_ymLciSLt0bUJDH-o8rU+DhoXqygZgo25smQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 2:44 AM, HoneyMonster <someone at someplace.invalid> wrote:
> Just for information, PostgreSQL works very well indeed with Psycopg (a
> PostgreSQL adapter for Python), but for learning purposes straightforward
> PSQL is best to start with.

Thanks for that. I've used PgSQL from C++ (using libpqxx), PHP, Pike,
and the command line, but not from Python. (Yeah, a lot of Ps in
that.)

Once you start looking to write actual code, Python will be an
excellent choice. But master the basics of
database/schema/table/column, primary keys, etc, etc, etc, first.

ChrisA


From maxthemouse at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 25 11:31:56 2011
From: maxthemouse at googlemail.com (MaxTheMouse)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:31:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me> <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3023.1322196607.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ce7e33b-418b-478d-bada-0e128ddf7cb6@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 24, 10:49?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2011 00:16:06 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> > chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> > doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> > due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> > his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.
>

I guess I will put in my 2 cents. I installed EPD from Enthought on 64
bit Win 7 Enterprise. Both 32 bit and 64 versions resulted in having
"Edit with Idle" when I right-click on a file. I don't have system
administration privileges on this machine so I have no idea how the
installer did it.

Cheers,
Adam


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 12:01:34 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:01:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affdfsdfds... at b.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i'm developing a new program.
> Mission: learn a bit of database management
> Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> db: that's the question
>
> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> sqlite at the beginning.
>
> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>
> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> Thank you all
>
> MedeoTL
>
> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)

To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
[Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager

> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)

Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
normalization.
After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
the other good stuff.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 12:11:01 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:11:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 21, 5:46?am, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.
>
> Can anyone list a good introduction to the files found in the source
> code? I have been poking around the source code for a little bit and
> there is a lot there. So, I was hoping someone could point me to the
> "good parts". I am also wondering whether some of the code was
> generated because I see state transition tables, which I doubt someone
> built by hand.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. It will be cool to see how the
> interpreter works internally. I am still wonder whether designing the
> language (going on 4 months now) will be harder than implementing it.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks

- compiled language
- indentation based
- functional programming features

Looks like a description of Haskell.  You may want to look there.

Back end: LLVM is gaining a lot of traction these days. Seems to give
best of both worlds -- compiling to C and to machine code


From roy at panix.com  Fri Nov 25 12:16:21 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:16:21 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-9F1201.12162125112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b at p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
 rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is 
> normalization. After that you can look at transactions, ACID, 
> distribution and all the other good stuff.

And when you're all done with that, you can start unlearning everything 
you've learned about normalization (not that you shouldn't learn about 
it in the first place, just that you should also learn when excessive 
normalization is a bad thing).

And then start looking at BASE (Basic Availability, Soft-state, 
Eventually consistent) as an alternative to ACID.

Don't get me wrong.  SQL is a powerful tool, and truly revolutionized 
the database world.  Anybody who is thinking about going into databases 
as a career needs to know SQL.  But, it's not the end of the road.  
There is life after SQL, and that's worth exploring too.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Nov 25 12:56:07 2011
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:56:07 +0000
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <CAOv69sahmyTsd7k-NE20GPP0ALWeRRUDkJo_TtwOEOX63pmAPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOv69sahmyTsd7k-NE20GPP0ALWeRRUDkJo_TtwOEOX63pmAPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ECFD6B7.30205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 25/11/2011 10:13, Noah Hall wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joiner<anacrolix at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.
>>
>> Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?
>
> Ignore him, he's a troll with an unjustly inflated ego.

He has previously posted under the name "rantingrick".

In brief, his posts have been about how Python is doomed unless it's
rescued from the elite who are ignoring the needs of the silent
majority by not fixing this or that, and he offers himself as the one
who'll lead the Python community into the promised land, or something
like that.


From nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 13:00:21 2011
From: nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com (Nikunj Badjatya)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 23:30:21 +0530
Subject: How to keep Console area fixed for a thread
In-Reply-To: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
Message-ID: <CAOwQg9u9xXJn=gryJxxBOiEU_p_M4k39yFp_rc7xSZPF4PfKJA@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?




On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:05 PM, <Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com> wrote:

> Hi All,****
>
> ** **
>
> Please look at the code below.****
>
> I am using pypi progressbar. But in general, How can I keep the area of
> the console fixed for  the thread to print its status on it.****
>
> ** **
>
> {{{****
>
> import sys****
>
> import time****
>
> import threading****
>
> import os****
>
> ** **
>
> from progressbar import AnimatedMarker, Bar, BouncingBar, Counter, ETA, \*
> ***
>
>                         FileTransferSpeed, FormatLabel, Percentage, \****
>
>                         ProgressBar, ReverseBar, RotatingMarker, \****
>
>                         SimpleProgress, Timer****
>
>                         ****
>
> def ProgBar():****
>
>     widgets = [' ', Percentage(), ' ',
> Bar(marker='#',left='[',right=']'),' ']****
>
>     pbar = ProgressBar(widgets=widgets, maxval=100)****
>
>     pbar.start()****
>
>     return pbar****
>
>     ****
>
> def update2(i):****
>
>     os.environ["PBAR"] = i****
>
>     print(?This will print for every call to update?)****
>
>     return ****
>
>     ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> class MyThread(threading.Thread):****
>
>     def run(self):****
>
>         l = 0****
>
>         while True:****
>
>             n = os.getenv("PBAR", "")****
>
>             if len(n) != 0:****
>
>                 n = int(n)****
>
>                 if n > l:****
>
>                     pbar.update(n)****
>
>                     l = n****
>
>                     if n == 100:****
>
>                         break ****
>
>                 else:****
>
>                     continue       ****
>
> ** **
>
> pbar = ProgBar()****
>
> mythread = MyThread()****
>
> mythread.daemon = True  ****
>
> mythread.start() ****
>
> ** **
>
>         ****
>
> for i in range(101):****
>
>     update2("{0}".format(i))****
>
>     time.sleep(0.25)****
>
> ** **
>
>   }}}  ****
>
> ** **
>
> {{{****
>
> Output:****
>
> ** **
>
> [image: output.jpeg]****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> }}}****
>
> ** **
>
> But I require the output to be of type:****
>
> {{{****
>
> 13%  [###########                               ]****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> This will print for every call to update****
>
> }}}****
>
> ** **
>
> This is just a sample piece of code for narrowing down the problem. ****
>
> How can I fix the cursor position fix for the thread which is updating my
> progressbar .?****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Nikunj****
>
> Bangalore-India****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Nov 25 13:54:13 2011
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:54:13 +0000
Subject: What replaces log4py under Python 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD0A5@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
References: <67D108EDFAD3C148A593E6ED7DCB4BBDEDD0A5@RADCONWIN2K8PDC.radcon.local>
Message-ID: <4ECFE455.30904@simplistix.co.uk>

On 22/11/2011 18:32, Rob Richardson wrote:
> My company has been using the log4py library for a long time.  A co-worker recently installed Python 3.2, and log4py will no longer compile.  (OK, I know that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean.)  What logging package should be used now?

How about the core logging package included in Python itself?

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
             - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Fri Nov 25 14:52:56 2011
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:52:56 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>
	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>
	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me>	<jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <jaorms$u5a$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 25.11.2011 01:16, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>
> As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.
>
I'm using Python 3.2.2 on Windows 7, 64 bit, and I get "Edit with IDLE" 
and "Edit with PythonWin" in my context menu. I installed Python from 
the Python.org site, the Windows extensions from Sourceforge, both of 
them for all users and without any changes to the standard installation 
or to file associations.

This isn't the first Python 3 version on this machine, I don't know if 
that might be relevant.

But it's a fact that changing the applications shown in the context menu 
for a file association isn't obvious any more on Windows 7.

HTH
Sibylle



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 25 18:19:25 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <26406614.367.1322263165339.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnu18>


> Except that, intriguingly, I'm also using an ActiveState distro
> and it neither adds Ctrl-D nor prevents history. But I'm
> fairly sure that pyreadline does both of those things.
> 
> TJG

In python I can spawn a process to run python byte code that will produce a file with results. Easy to avoid a lot import A,B,C,D...... on the top level.




From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Nov 25 18:19:25 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecda8ea$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2990.1322109066.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecde007$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmp_Fix189fkuAvZpH+ywg-18tLMYwUZOywccy0W6uT4iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2999.1322124705.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bea9a0d9-2971-4d52-9037-a0423af39d4d@v31g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<qn74q8-o0f.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.3037.1322220596.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <26406614.367.1322263165339.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnu18>


> Except that, intriguingly, I'm also using an ActiveState distro
> and it neither adds Ctrl-D nor prevents history. But I'm
> fairly sure that pyreadline does both of those things.
> 
> TJG

In python I can spawn a process to run python byte code that will produce a file with results. Easy to avoid a lot import A,B,C,D...... on the top level.




From 1989lzhh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 20:12:21 2011
From: 1989lzhh at gmail.com (=?GB2312?B?wfXV8bqj?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:12:21 +0800
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGcu1a50hgjzNvq07-Axh=r0Y-=fydoc9oEkoQN6rZzHYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGcu1a50hgjzNvq07-Axh=r0Y-=fydoc9oEkoQN6rZzHYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZyxuegUyrSozf3YU5KNwLZsPWoC0Y9w9Uw_CYmyfQu1B55+g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alec
Thanks for your help.

I want to change the creation timestamp. the code that you give is to
change the modification and access time.
I already find a solution using pywin32's win32file module

import win32file
filehandle = win32file.CreateFile(file_name, win32file.GENERIC_WRITE,
            0, None, win32file.OPEN_EXISTING, 0, 0)
win32file.SetFileTime(filehandle, ctime, atime, mtime)

Regards,
Liu Zhenhai

2011/11/25 Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com>

> import os
> import time
> from stat import *
>
> #returns a list of all the files on the current directory
> files = os.listdir('.')
>
> for f in files:
>  #my folder has some jpegs and raw images
>  if f.lower().endswith('jpg') or f.lower().endswith('crw'):
>    st = os.stat(f)
>    atime = st[ST_ATIME] #access time
>    mtime = st[ST_MTIME] #modification time
>
>    new_mtime = mtime + (4*3600) #new modification time
>
>    #modify the file timestamp
>    os.utime(f,(atime,new_mtime))
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:47 PM, ??? <1989lzhh at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can not
> > find a solution to do it.
> > I know the way to change the file creation timestamp in C under Windows,
> but
> > I want to change it using python.
> > I really need help!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Liu Zhenhai
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
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From alex.kapps at web.de  Fri Nov 25 20:34:19 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 02:34:19 +0100
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
In-Reply-To: <jan6oh$jm1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me>	<4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com>	<jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>	<mailman.2987.1322099016.27778.python-list@python.org>	<feqdnYUXG4L-T1PTnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>	<4ecedb73$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<4ECEE208.9010602@web.de>
	<jan6oh$jm1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED0421B.3080801@web.de>

On 25.11.2011 05:49, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 01:32:08 +0100, Alexander Kapps<alex.kapps at web.de>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>
>> The main difference here is, that Linux makes it easy to seperate
>> administrative accounts from end-user accounts,
>>
> 	So does Win7... Heck -- I have to answer prompts to OK an installer
> even while logged into my admin account!

For Windows, Left-Clicking an OK button to confirm potentionally 
dangerous admin tasks is like linking the acceleration pedal in your 
car to the brake pedal(If the traffic light shows Red/Stop, push the 
acceleration pedal to break)

I mean, seriously, left-clicking an OK button is something *SO* 
unusual to Windows users that you could also just remove that 
"barrier" altogether.

</sarcasm>

Now, OK, I don't really know any  Windows version after XP, so 
things might have changed. But what I see from the casual Win users 
in my environment is that nothing has really changed.



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 22:42:31 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:42:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<vg38vn7dwfs.fsf@sci.fi>
	<4ecccb07$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2965.1322044680.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<944e0207-7083-4ae8-a59e-3e05b595708e@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3030.1322211521.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e787409a-c205-464c-a2ba-9735bbf35b58@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 6:58?pm, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> Do you have the pyreadline module installed? ISTR that that takes
> over from the standard cmd processing...

I'm pretty sure I do.

It's really not an issue, though, as I tend to stick to linux &
iPython where possible :)



From illy at otekno.biz  Fri Nov 25 22:45:05 2011
From: illy at otekno.biz (Illy)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:45:05 +0700
Subject: myComboBox.SetValue() does not work in windows.
Message-ID: <4ED060C1.3050609@otekno.biz>

Dear friends....

Anybody know how can I change the text of a ComboBox? Because
"
myComboBox.SetValue("my text")
"
does not work on Windows.

Anybody would be so nice for telling me complete reference/documentation 
about wxPython on windows? Because the wxPython between on Linux and on 
Windows are sometimes different.

Thank you very much in advance.

-- 
Let us cut your costs for your business: http://www.otekno.biz
Skype: otekno.biz
Yahoo-ID: ceo.opentek at ymail.com
OpenTEKID: ceo at opentek.tv
Mobile: 087 888 04 26 77
Office: +62-21-4587 90 75, 4587 68 08
Fax: +62-21-4587 64 65
BlackBerry Messanger: 274DF07F



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 23:15:47 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:15:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1603fc14-93b7-4e07-b891-631c083c60bc@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 11:00?pm, Massi <massi_... at msn.com> wrote:
> plugins
> ? ? |
> ? ? -- wav_plug
> ? ? ? ? ? |
> ? ? ? ? ? -- __init__.py
> ? ? ? ? ? -- WavPlug.py
> ? ? -- mp3_plug
> ? ? ? ? ? |
> ? ? ? ? ? -- __init__.py
> ? ? ? ? ? -- Mp3Plug.py
> ...
> ? ? -- etc_plug
> ? ? ? ? ? |
> ? ? ? ? ? -- __init__.py
> ? ? ? ? ? -- EtcPlug.py

What do you gain by having each plugin as a package? Unless you're
storing other resources with each plugin, I'd move all your XXXPlug.py
files into plugins/ I'd also probably call the modules 'wavplug' and
the class 'WavPlug' to always make it clear  to which you're
referring.

> Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
> to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
> like that:
>
> from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
> from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug
>
> and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
> have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
> through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
> the submodules contained in each subdirectory?

It's not exactly automatic, but you could move all of those imports
into plugins/__init__.py, then just do a single

   from plugins import *

in your main module.


From fred.sells at adventistcare.org  Fri Nov 25 23:22:46 2011
From: fred.sells at adventistcare.org (Sells, Fred)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 23:22:46 -0500
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FF33FE3F6BACC544A34043593DB53BA20AFE7FC2@acesxch03.ADVENTISTCORP.NET>

I'm looking at a variation on this theme.  I currently use
Flex/ActionScript for client side work, but there is pressure to move
toward HTML5+Javascript and or iOS.  Since I'm an old hand at Python, I
was wondering if there is a way to use it to model client side logic,
then generate the javascript and ActionScript.  I don't see an issue
using custom python objects to render either mxml, xaml or html5 but I'm
not aware if anyone has already solved the problem of converting Python
(byte code?) to these languages?  Any suggestions.



From metolone at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 23:26:31 2011
From: metolone at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:26:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jadusb$to5$1@dont-email.me> <4ECBF01A.7060507@yahoo.com>
	<4ECBF80E.9090003@yahoo.com> <jahpbo$l6s$1@dont-email.me>
	<jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me>
	<jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me> <jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3049.1322250797.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd28798d-9549-4a39-aaae-94bd3e49a1a1@e12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 11:52?am, Sibylle Koczian <nulla.epist... at web.de> wrote:
> Am 25.11.2011 01:16, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>
> > As far as I can tell, nobody running the 64-bit version of Windows 7 has
> > chimed in to either confirm or refute W. eWatson's claim that IDLE
> > doesn't show up, so we have no way of telling whether it doesn't show up
> > due to a lack in the installer, or because eWatson has (slightly) broken
> > his system and has inadvertently prevented it from showing up.
>
> I'm using Python 3.2.2 on Windows 7, 64 bit, and I get "Edit with IDLE"
> and "Edit with PythonWin" in my context menu. I installed Python from
> the Python.org site, the Windows extensions from Sourceforge, both of
> them for all users and without any changes to the standard installation
> or to file associations.
>
> This isn't the first Python 3 version on this machine, I don't know if
> that might be relevant.
>
> But it's a fact that changing the applications shown in the context menu
> for a file association isn't obvious any more on Windows 7.
>
> HTH
> Sibylle

I'm also using Python 2.7 and Python 3.3 on Windows 7, 64-bit, and
have both "Edit" menu items as well.

Changing the application defaults is now in "Default Programs" right
on the Start Menu.  It's more "obvious" than the old location, but the
old location is just known by more people and Microsoft loves to move
things around.

-Mark


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 23:48:06 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:48:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-9F1201.12162125112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <804444da-54f8-4325-b3b1-e37b9dc250f1@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 10:16?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article
> <581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887... at p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
>
> ?rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > normalization. After that you can look at transactions, ACID,
> > distribution and all the other good stuff.
>
> And when you're all done with that, you can start unlearning everything
> you've learned about normalization (not that you shouldn't learn about
> it in the first place, just that you should also learn when excessive
> normalization is a bad thing).
>
> And then start looking at BASE (Basic Availability, Soft-state,
> Eventually consistent) as an alternative to ACID.
>
> Don't get me wrong. ?SQL is a powerful tool, and truly revolutionized
> the database world. ?Anybody who is thinking about going into databases
> as a career needs to know SQL. ?But, it's not the end of the road.
> There is life after SQL, and that's worth exploring too.

Yes going all the way up to fifth normal form can be nonsensical.
Putting it less jargony -- Given a real world scenario involving data
can you organize it into tables with reasonable foreign-key relations,
and integrity constraints? If so you can start looking beyond sql.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 01:18:50 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Nov 2011 06:18:50 GMT
Subject: How to change the file creation timestamp?
References: <CAGZyxud4zL+VMnXDtJvmSVyQpzR5H_6zxOJ3NFxrFbVtys_DwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3043.1322229100.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed084ca$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:51:34 +1100, Alec Taylor wrote:

> import os
> import time
> from stat import *
> 
> #returns a list of all the files on the current directory files =
> os.listdir('.')
> 
> for f in files:
>   #my folder has some jpegs and raw images if f.lower().endswith('jpg')
>   or f.lower().endswith('crw'):
>     st = os.stat(f)
>     atime = st[ST_ATIME] #access time
>     mtime = st[ST_MTIME] #modification time

The original poster asks for how to change the file creation timestamp. 
(The poster assumes that there is a creation timestamp, which is not 
necessarily the case -- many file systems do not store the creation time.)


>     new_mtime = mtime + (4*3600) #new modification time
> 
>     #modify the file timestamp
>     os.utime(f,(atime,new_mtime))

Note that this is from the posix module, so it probably won't work under 
Windows.


> 
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:47 PM, ??? <1989lzhh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I want to change the file creation timestamp using python, but I can
>> not find a solution to do it.
>> I know the way to?change the file creation timestamp in C under
>> Windows, but I want to change it using python.
>> I really need help!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liu Zhenhai
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>



From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 07:19:43 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:19:43 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <FF33FE3F6BACC544A34043593DB53BA20AFE7FC2@acesxch03.ADVENTISTCORP.NET>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<67882be2-e60e-44c0-851c-a981f882e2ed@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<FF33FE3F6BACC544A34043593DB53BA20AFE7FC2@acesxch03.ADVENTISTCORP.NET>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1MFw4bGfQ6ndU8Ymfc2-a-z1A4viz-jKX6r85b0g1LeUg@mail.gmail.com>

http://pyjs.org/

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Sells, Fred
<fred.sells at adventistcare.org> wrote:
> I'm looking at a variation on this theme. ?I currently use
> Flex/ActionScript for client side work, but there is pressure to move
> toward HTML5+Javascript and or iOS. ?Since I'm an old hand at Python, I
> was wondering if there is a way to use it to model client side logic,
> then generate the javascript and ActionScript. ?I don't see an issue
> using custom python objects to render either mxml, xaml or html5 but I'm
> not aware if anyone has already solved the problem of converting Python
> (byte code?) to these languages? ?Any suggestions.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From no.email at please.post  Sat Nov 26 08:40:28 2011
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:40:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
Message-ID: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>


it's an all-out disgrace.

when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???

and don't tell me to do it myself: it's clear that the sorry
situation we have now is precisely that too many programmers without
the requisite expertise or policy-making authority have decided to
pitch in.  This is something for GvR and his top Python core library
team to do, because the problems are as much policy and institutional
ones as they are technical (programming) ones.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 09:22:11 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Nov 2011 14:22:11 GMT
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ed0f612$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:40:28 +0000, kj wrote:

> it's an all-out disgrace.
> 
> when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???

Python 4.3, scheduled for March 2038. It's been ready for a few years 
now, and a small secret coterie of privileged developers have been using 
it for their own in-house projects since version 2.1, but it was decided 
not to release it to the general public, because they'll just bitch and 
moan that it's a disgrace without actually explaining why they think so, 
or volunteering to help build a better system.



-- 
Steven


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sat Nov 26 09:51:22 2011
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert W. Hopkins)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:51:22 -0500
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <4ed0f612$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<4ed0f612$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1322319082.3652.3.camel@stretch>

On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 14:22 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???
> 
> Python 4.3, scheduled for March 2038. It's been ready for a few years 
> now, and a small secret coterie of privileged developers have been
> using 
> it for their own in-house projects since version 2.1, but it was
> decided 
> not to release it to the general public, because they'll just bitch
> and 
> moan that it's a disgrace without actually explaining why they think
> so, 
> or volunteering to help build a better system.
> 
> 
I suspected that all along!
> 
> 



From maxthemouse at googlemail.com  Sat Nov 26 11:22:18 2011
From: maxthemouse at googlemail.com (MaxTheMouse)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:22:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What I do and do not know about installing Python on Win 7 with
	regard to IDLE.
References: <jahq9t$qra$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2960.1322030622.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<jajaq6$6jj$1@dont-email.me> <jajb2v$6jj$3@dont-email.me>
	<jajs49$36m$1@dont-email.me>
	<jamcc7$861$1@dont-email.me> <jamcjf$861$2@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3013.1322177442.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ecede45$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3049.1322250797.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<bd28798d-9549-4a39-aaae-94bd3e49a1a1@e12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3054.1322291649.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3fe404cb-7a6d-45c4-88ea-830441d22878@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 1:13?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:26:31 -0800 (PST), Mark Tolonen
> <metol... at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Changing the application defaults is now in "Default Programs" right
> > on the Start Menu. ?It's more "obvious" than the old location, but the
> > old location is just known by more people and Microsoft loves to move
> > things around.
>
> ? ? ? ? Maybe I missed it, but when I looked at that on my Win7 laptop, I
> only saw a way to define a default for "open" action -- which, for .py
> and .pyw files, should be python.exe and pythonw.exe, respectively;
> otherwise you can't run them via double-click.
>
> ? ? ? ? What I did NOT find was a way to define OTHER actions for the
> <right-click> menu... IE; no way to define an "edit with xxx", or a
> "print" operation.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? AF6VN
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

I haven't gone back through this complicated thread so I apologize if
this has already been mentioned.

I only found a registry based way for vista and win7.
http://www.techspot.com/guides/210-edit-windows-extended-context-menu/
http://www.winvistaclub.com/e11.html


There is also the 'extended' menu by shift+right-click. Maybe the Edit
option can show up there.

Adam


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:11:38 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:11:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Return of an old friend
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 7:19?am, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Fellow Pythonistas,
>
> I am very glad to be back after an unfortunate incident caused my
> Google account to be deleted. Unfortunately for those of you that have
> been following along and supporting my crusade to bring fairness and
> humility to the python community, my old posts under "rantingrick"
> have all been deleted from Google Groups. However, you can always
> search the python-list archives if you need a jog down memory lane.
>
> Actually this accidental deletion may have been a good thing as i've
> had some extra time to muse on the innards of Python4000.
>
> In any event, this announcement is intended to be a new call to arms
> for my brothers and sisters who fight the good fight, and for those of
> you who despise me , well, this might be a good time to add my new
> moniker to your kill files.
>
> Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Hi Rick!
Glad to see you back!
[Courts can be dull places without jesters ye-know!]


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:28:48 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:28:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 6:40?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> it's an all-out disgrace.
>
> when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???
>
> and don't tell me to do it myself: it's clear that the sorry
> situation we have now is precisely that too many programmers without
> the requisite expertise or policy-making authority have decided to
> pitch in. ?This is something for GvR and his top Python core library
> team to do, because the problems are as much policy and institutional
> ones as they are technical (programming) ones.

I second this.

The only thing I disagree about is that GvR is 'top' enough to handle
this.
For example on my debian box my python system is a mishmash of debian-
apt-packages,
eggs, and hand-installed stuff.  [I believe I tried something like
pypi and did not succeed -- dont exactly remember]
So for systems like mine python and apt need to talk courteously to
each other -- not possible for the likes of u&me; hard even for the
likes of GvR.

Frankly, this is not great but could be much worse.  Some years ago
when I worked with Ruby on Rails the rails that came from debian was
an travesty.  After some suffering I gathered that the optimal
diplomacy was:
- ruby from apt
- gem hand installed
- rails from gem

While Ive never seen anything as ridiculous as the debian-rails in the
python world, its still always a hobson choice:  use a deb package
that will cleanly install, deinstall, upgrade etc but is out of date
or use a fresh and shiny egg that messes up the system.

Haskell's cabal/hackage system is just as much a mess
http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/f3lh5/haskells_own_dll_hell/

In short the mess arises from this that each of these languages comes
up with its own package management system, neglecting the fact that
the language invariably exists in a larger ecosystem


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:38:18 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 04:38:18 +1100
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqmudSR8Ea6QMYAvSDF+zAi2pwjtKNcFGcZzmzbnBA5bg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:11 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rick!
> Glad to see you back!
> [Courts can be dull places without jesters ye-know!]

So, what... you'd take someone to court for being funny? That sounds
like the -other- Pythons.

ChrisA


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 12:46:32 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:46:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4092a435-02fd-4705-80db-ec958a5fc968@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 11:28?am, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 6:40?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> The only thing I disagree about is that GvR is 'top' enough to handle
> this.

For a concrete example of how uninterested Mr. Van Rossum has become,
take a look at the gawd awful state of Tkinter and especially IDLE.
Whist I applaud GvR's initial good will attempts when creating these
modules, i am simultaneously ashamed of their current bit-rot states.


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 13:46:52 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 05:46:52 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGdrbhKxbjzQhtOjZDpFRMVcxrVEBbSZEG87faCDJt4EEA@mail.gmail.com>

Consider implementing OOP, reflection and implement in HLA or C

=]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks, lambdas, non-locals and my language will partially
> support dynamic programming.
>
> Can anyone list a good introduction to the files found in the source
> code? I have been poking around the source code for a little bit and
> there is a lot there. So, I was hoping someone could point me to the
> "good parts". I am also wondering whether some of the code was
> generated because I see state transition tables, which I doubt someone
> built by hand.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. It will be cool to see how the
> interpreter works internally. I am still wonder whether designing the
> language (going on 4 months now) will be harder than implementing it.
>
> Thanks,
> Travis Parks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 13:53:15 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 20, 6:46?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> for code blocks,

I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
folly?

And please, i love Python, but the language is a bit asymmetrical. Do
try to bring some symmetry to this new language. You can learn a lot
from GvR's triumphs, however, you can learn even more from his follys.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 14:34:25 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:34:25 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr2zRe6sKVN=v3zg9387EZnskP96W6MovNOhEnByWANZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
> being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
> the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
> folly?

I recommend demanding that indentation strictly alternate tabs or
spaces in successive non-blank lines. Comment-only lines must be
identical to the immediately-preceding line. A tab is equivalent to
seven spaces.

End the ambiguity!

ChrisA


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 16:15:57 2011
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:15:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3059.1322336069.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <34d119af-3aa9-4720-944c-3852c720552a@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 1:34?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Rick Johnson
>
> <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
> > being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
> > the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
> > folly?
>
> I recommend demanding that indentation strictly alternate tabs or
> spaces in successive non-blank lines.

Funny.

> Comment-only lines must be
> identical to the immediately-preceding line.

...as in "indentation" you mean, then yes. OR suffer the syntax error.

> A tab is equivalent to
> seven spaces.

...as for "the litmus test of stdlib code" you mean, then yes. OR
suffer the syntax error.


From candide at free.invalid  Sat Nov 26 16:20:36 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
Message-ID: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function 
compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in 
which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.

Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is() 
function is mainly used in the following set form :

spam is None

But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?



is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) adresses 
of objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low level 
feature performed by low level langages such as C but seldom needed in 
high level languages like Python, isn'it ?


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 26 16:32:17 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 16:32:17 -0500
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <roy-F5D2BF.16321726112011@news.panix.com>

In article <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc at news.free.fr>,
 candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:

> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function 
> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in 
> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.
> 
> Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is() 
> function is mainly used in the following set form :
> 
> spam is None
> 
> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?

It's the difference between *being* None, and being equal to None.  For 
example:

class Spam:
    def __eq__(self, other):
        return not other

spam = Spam()
print spam is None
print spam == None

When I run that, it prints:

False
True

In practice, when you compare something to None, you usually want the 
"is" form.  In cases where either would work (i.e. 99% of the time), 
it's convention (and/or good practice) to use "is" because it more more 
clearly expresses what it is that you're trying to do.


From b49P23TIvg at stny.rr.com  Sat Nov 26 16:42:00 2011
From: b49P23TIvg at stny.rr.com (Dave)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:42:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: tkinter
Message-ID: <f90bb247-8263-4cc1-a7a6-3f052e6de5dd@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

http://forums.devshed.com/python-programming-11/setting-tkinter-checkbox-default-graphical-state-865148.html
Please answer this question I failed to resolve.
Thanks,
Dave.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 17:22:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:22:40 +1100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrtBUJeu-kh5nEHE2ngjhupi3fUueBST7MRS-nP49t1qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 8:20 AM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) adresses of
> objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low level feature
> performed by low level langages such as C but seldom needed in high level
> languages like Python, isn'it ?

You also want 'is' when you're testing for a singleton used as a default value:

DEFAULT = object()

def foo(arg1,arg2,arg3=DEFAULT):
    if arg3 is DEFAULT: print("You gave me two args")


ChrisA


From alex.kapps at web.de  Sat Nov 26 17:38:26 2011
From: alex.kapps at web.de (Alexander Kapps)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ED16A62.4050009@web.de>

On 26.11.2011 22:20, candide wrote:

You already got answers for the "is" vs. "==" difference. I'd like 
to add the following.

> In which cases should we use the is() function ?

"is" is not a function, It's an operator, just like == or +.

> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of)
> adresses of objects in memory.

That's an implementation detail. CPython (and maybe others) 
implement "is" in terms of memory addresses. Other implementations 
might use an object ID number or whatever else.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 18:01:13 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Nov 2011 23:01:13 GMT
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100, candide wrote:

> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function
> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in
> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.

`is` is not a function. It is a keyword and an operator.

You should always use `is` when you intend to test for object identity, 
and never use `is` when you do not intend to test for object identity. 
For example:

TASK: check whether a number is equal to 42.

    # WRONG don't do this
    if x is 42: ...
    # RIGHT use equality instead
    if x == 42: ...

Object identity is the wrong solution here, because you cannot control 
whether Python will re-use the same object for every instance of 42, or 
different objects each time.


TASK: check whether an object is a specific sentinel value, and no other 
value, even if it happens to compare equal to the sentinel. The most 
common sentinel is the singleton None.

    # WRONG don't do this
    if x == None: ...
    # RIGHT use is instead
    if x is None: ...


Use of equality is inappropriate, because it tests whether the object 
compares equal to None. Although there are no built-ins that compare 
equal to None, there could be any number of custom objects that do, and 
so your code contains a bug: you intend to branch *only* on None, but 
might branch on some other object by mistake.


> Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is()
> function is mainly used in the following set form :
> 
> spam is None
> 
> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?

Even if you can guarantee that your code base does not contain any object 
which compares equal to None except for None itself (and how would you do 
that? a full audit of every line of code in every library you use?), the 
use of `is` should be preferred because it signals your intention much 
better.

If your intention is to accept arbitrary objects which compare equal to 
None, than by all means use == for your comparison. But normally the 
intention is to accept None, and nothing else.


> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) adresses
> of objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low level
> feature performed by low level langages such as C but seldom needed in
> high level languages like Python, isn'it ?

That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing 
for None, use of `is` should be rare.



-- 
Steven


From jason.swails at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 18:10:40 2011
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:10:40 -0500
Subject: tkinter
In-Reply-To: <f90bb247-8263-4cc1-a7a6-3f052e6de5dd@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <f90bb247-8263-4cc1-a7a6-3f052e6de5dd@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BCA15B10-32B9-4F9E-8C92-A385FBB5BA62@gmail.com>

The problem is that the logMode1 reference is _only_ bound to the name logMode1.  Assigning it to "variable" in the Checkbutton instance (logCheck1) does not actually generate a reference to that variable inside logCheck1.  Therefore, once the initialize method terminates, all references to logMode1 are destroyed and the variable is garbage-collected.

Therefore, that variable will be None by default, regardless of what you do to it inside "initialize", which is why the button appears unchecked.  If you create a reference to it, then the Checkbutton behaves as you'd expect (that is, it appears checked).  You can verify this easily by just making logMode1 an attribute of simpleapp_tk (replace logMode1 with self.logMode1 in every case).

You can also see this behavior by artificially lengthening the initialize method.  Import the time module and run "time.sleep(5)" at the end of initialize, and you will see the check button remain checked for 5 seconds (while the reference logMode1 survives), before the check vanishes as sleep ends and the reference leaves scope.

I would suggest that this is a checking feature rather than a bug.  The variable that you set is useless unless you plan to use the value (or if there's a case where you may use it).  If such a case exists, then you'll need a reference to that variable in the relevant scope you're dealing with.

Hope this helps,
Jason

On Nov 26, 2011, at 4:42 PM, Dave wrote:

> http://forums.devshed.com/python-programming-11/setting-tkinter-checkbox-default-graphical-state-865148.html
> Please answer this question I failed to resolve.
> Thanks,
> Dave.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Nov 26 18:41:38 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:41:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>

On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affdfs... at b.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > i'm developing a new program.
> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > db: that's the question
> >
> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > sqlite at the beginning.
> >
> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >
> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > Thank you all
> >
> > MedeoTL
> >
> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> 
> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> 
> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> 
> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> normalization.
> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> the other good stuff.

If I have a fast hash library  that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
 


From candide at free.invalid  Sat Nov 26 20:42:52 2011
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:42:52 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the is operator
In-Reply-To: <4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks to all for your response.


Le 27/11/2011 00:01, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100, candide wrote:
>
>> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function
>> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in
>> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.
>
> `is` is not a function. It is a keyword and an operator.

oops exponent 10 !! I have in mind the id() function, very close to the 
is operator. An operator named "is" makes search of code snippets  very 
complicated because the verb "is" is always embedded in comments or 
documentation.



>> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?
>
> Even if you can guarantee that your code base does not contain any object
> which compares equal to None except for None itself (and how would you do
> that? a full audit of every line of code in every library you use?), the
> use of `is` should be preferred because it signals your intention much
> better.

OK but tons of good code use "spam == None" ; for instance, many tests 
files in Python official code. A random example (from 
openshot/openshot/windows/MainGTK.py):

# ---------------------------------------------------------------

					parent_name = item.parent
					if parent_name == None:
						match_iter = None

		# Check for NO files
		if mode == None and self.project.project_folder.items.__len__() == 0:
			#switch to the detail view

			
			if drop_track == None:
				# keep old parent, if no track found

		
		if self.new_clip_object == None:
			self.item_detected = False

# ---------------------------------------------------------------



>
> If your intention is to accept arbitrary objects which compare equal to
> None, than by all means use == for your comparison. But normally the
> intention is to accept None, and nothing else.


So, for the same reason, wouldn't it be better to use "if spam is True" 
against to "if spam == True"  (or better "if spam") ?


> That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing
> for None, use of `is` should be rare.


OK, thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 20:50:52 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:50:52 +1100
Subject: Pragmatics of the is operator
In-Reply-To: <4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrnZQpsWr1No3JOrmAYu7u3jkvB109NO5tJqbmu7f5HHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 12:42 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:
> So, for the same reason, wouldn't it be better to use "if spam is True"
> against to "if spam == True" ?(or better "if spam") ?
>

They're quite different. "if spam" will check the truthiness of spam -
it's equivalent to "if bool(spam) is True"; "if spam is True" checks
that it's actually a boolean. But I would recommend against the "==
True" form, as it's unclear which form you meant to use. (Others may
disagree.)

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Sat Nov 26 21:20:01 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:20:01 -0500
Subject: How to keep Console area fixed for a thread
In-Reply-To: <CAOwQg9u9xXJn=gryJxxBOiEU_p_M4k39yFp_rc7xSZPF4PfKJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <599CEBACD49B4144A61212D837EE3C0F144604D7B8@MX34A.corp.emc.com>
	<CAOwQg9u9xXJn=gryJxxBOiEU_p_M4k39yFp_rc7xSZPF4PfKJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED19E51.5000302@davea.name>

On 11/25/2011 01:00 PM, Nikunj Badjatya wrote:
> Can anyone throw some light on this please ! ?
>
>
>
( when you top-post, you confuse things.   comp.lang.python follows the 
usual convention of putting new material after the parts you're 
quoting.  Further, trying to embed images inside html messages will mess 
up all of us who use text readers to read a text forum. )
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:05 PM,<Nikunj.Badjatya at emc.com>  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Please look at the code below.****
>>
>> I am using pypi progressbar. But in general, How can I keep the area of
>> the console fixed for  the thread to print its status on it.****
>>
No idea what you're really asking.  But I'll take a wild guess.

Perhaps you're trying to divvy up a console box, and have different 
parts of it updated by different threads.  In the general case, it can't 
be done.  But if you are going to make it work, you'll need to restrict 
the environment some.  Perhaps if you reword the question, with more 
information, someone can help.

What operating system and what Python version will this have to run on?  
On Unix/Linux, you have curses that can be used at least to print 
without scrolling.  On Windows, you may have something similar, by using 
ANSI sequences, but it's been so long since I tried that I have no 
idea.  But if you just use print from different threads, the characters  
may be intermingled.


-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Sat Nov 26 21:35:29 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:35:29 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
Message-ID: <4ED1A1F1.1080404@davea.name>

On 11/26/2011 06:41 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 3:41 pm, Tracubik<affdfs... at b.com>  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> i'm developing a new program.
>>> Mission: learn a bit of database management
>>> Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
>>> seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
>>> technologies i'll use: python + gtk
>>> db: that's the question
>>>
>>> since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
>>> sqlite at the beginning.
>>>
>>> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>>> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>>>
>>> is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
>>> mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
>>> Thank you all
>>>
>>> MedeoTL
>>>
>>> P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
>>> easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
>> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
>> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
>> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
>> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
>> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
>>
>>> Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>>> they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
>> normalization.
>> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
>> the other good stuff.
> If I have a fast hash library  that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
>
If you're using Python, you already have a "fast hash" library, in the 
dictionary class.  And yes, if a problem doesn't need the full 
generality of a database, you may be able to implement it with 
dictionaries, and it may even be practical to store those dictionaries 
to disk for later retrieval.  However, there are quite a few reasons 
this may not be good enough.  To start with just two:   if there are 
multiple users of the database, and they have to be synched.  Or if you 
have to be safe from a program or a system crashing.

-- 

DaveA



From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 26 21:49:20 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:49:20 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> If you're using Python, you already have a "fast hash" library, in the 
> dictionary class.  And yes, if a problem doesn't need the full 
> generality of a database, you may be able to implement it with 
> dictionaries, and it may even be practical to store those dictionaries 
> to disk for later retrieval.  However, there are quite a few reasons 
> this may not be good enough.  To start with just two:   if there are 
> multiple users of the database, and they have to be synched.  Or if you 
> have to be safe from a program or a system crashing.

This is a good point.  In general, databases differ from in-memory data 
structures in that they provide:

1) Persistence

2) Data integrity

3) Shared access

Different kinds of databases provide different amounts and flavors of 
these (especially #2).  I think it's fair to say, however, that those 
three in some form are essential for something that calls itself a 
database.

Where thing get fun is when you start looking at the various things out 
there that call themselves databases and need to evaluate which ones 
give you the combination of these that best match your needs.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Nov 26 22:13:00 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Nov 2011 03:13:00 GMT
Subject: Pragmatics of the is operator
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4ed1959d$0$690$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ed1aabc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:42:52 +0100, candide wrote:

>> Even if you can guarantee that your code base does not contain any
>> object which compares equal to None except for None itself (and how
>> would you do that? a full audit of every line of code in every library
>> you use?), the use of `is` should be preferred because it signals your
>> intention much better.
> 
> OK but tons of good code use "spam == None" ; for instance, many tests
> files in Python official code. A random example (from
> openshot/openshot/windows/MainGTK.py):

I don't know what openshot is, but I don't think it is "official" in the 
sense of being in the Python standard library:

>>> import openshot
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named openshot


But even if it were, the standard library is not written by superhuman 
perfect gods, only by ordinary human beings who can make mistakes. 
Comparing against None with == is not idiomatic Python, and is usually a 
mistake. It rarely leads to obvious bugs, so it can survive in code 
without notice for a long time.


>> If your intention is to accept arbitrary objects which compare equal to
>> None, than by all means use == for your comparison. But normally the
>> intention is to accept None, and nothing else.
> 
> 
> So, for the same reason, wouldn't it be better to use "if spam is True"
> against to "if spam == True"  (or better "if spam") ?

No. Normally should just say "if spam" and allow Python to test the 
truthiness of spam.

"if spam == True" is worse, because there are many truthy objects which 
are not equal to True, e.g. 42, "norwegian blue", [1, 2, 3] are all 
truthy objects that (almost always) should be accepted but will wrongly 
be rejected.

"if spam is True" is even worse, because there are many truthy objects 
that are not the True singleton. Old code, especially if it was written 
before the introduction of bools in (I think) 2.1 or 2.2, often uses 1 as 
the standard true-like value. To save typing, many people will still pass 
1 or 0 as an argument when a bool is expected, which will then fail if 
you test for identity.

The exception is if for some reason you actually care whether your flag 
is the True object and absolutely nothing else. This violates Python's 
preference for duck-typing and support for truthiness, but if you have a 
good reason, go right ahead.

Suppose spam is already a bool. Then "if spam" is enough, since spam is a 
bool. "if spam is True" is no more necessary than 

    if spam is True is True
    if spam is True is True is True
    if spam is True is True is True is True 
    if spam is True is True is True is True is True
    if spam is True is True is True is True is True is True
    # I never know when to stop...

The right place to stop is not to start. "if spam is True" is redundant.

And lastly, testing for identity against None is guaranteed by the 
language: any implementation of Python must have None a singleton. But 
True and False are not such a strong promise. A future version of Python, 
or another implementation, might not bother to make True and False 
singletons. (Doubletons?) Unlikely, but why make assumptions that you 
don't need to?



-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Nov 26 22:14:36 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 19:14:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:49:20 AM UTC+8, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.3067.1322361... at python.org>,
>  Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> 
> > If you're using Python, you already have a "fast hash" library, in the 
> > dictionary class.  And yes, if a problem doesn't need the full 
> > generality of a database, you may be able to implement it with 
> > dictionaries, and it may even be practical to store those dictionaries 
> > to disk for later retrieval.  However, there are quite a few reasons 
> > this may not be good enough.  To start with just two:   if there are 
> > multiple users of the database, and they have to be synched.  Or if you 
> > have to be safe from a program or a system crashing.
> 
> This is a good point.  In general, databases differ from in-memory data 
> structures in that they provide:
> 
> 1) Persistence
> 
> 2) Data integrity
> 
> 3) Shared access

Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?

In python there are packages can solve these easily.  


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 22:24:09 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:24:09 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
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On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:14 PM, 88888 Dihedral
<dihedral88888 at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?
>

That question isn't inherent to databasiness; it might not even be
network-shared at all - in fact, most database-driven web sites have a
database that's accessible only from localhost (which is where the web
server runs). It's still shared access, and has all the same concerns.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Sat Nov 26 22:27:38 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:27:38 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>	<mailman.3067.1322361338.27778.python-list@python.org>	<roy-7D8CCD.21492026112011@news.panix.com>
	<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
Message-ID: <4ED1AE2A.50709@davea.name>

On 11/26/2011 10:14 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:49:20 AM UTC+8, Roy Smith wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>> This is a good point.  In general, databases differ from in-memory data
>> structures in that they provide:
>>
>> 1) Persistence
>>
>> 2) Data integrity
>>
>> 3) Shared access
> Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?
>
> In python there are packages can solve these easily.

Right, and they are not in-memory databases.

or to go back to the OP in this fork of the thread, they are not "fast 
hashes."

-- 

DaveA



From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 26 22:41:39 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:41:39 -0500
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
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	<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5>
Message-ID: <roy-958233.22413826112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<26232548.146.1322363676465.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums at pruu5>,
 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888 at googlemail.com> wrote:

> > In general, databases differ from in-memory data 
> > structures in that they provide:
> > 
> > 1) Persistence
> > 
> > 2) Data integrity
> > 
> > 3) Shared access
> 
> Shared in access in a local lan or a wide wan?

Well, like I said in my original post, "Different kinds of databases 
provide different amounts and flavors of these".  Sharing across a 
network is one type of shared access, but there are lots of things that 
don't do network access that I would still consider databases.


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 23:03:26 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:03:26 +1100
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1OU+Bf8oNrkq8_5vKJ09t1yPpPNKF0mqZ=bQKMTw0O2Gw@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
you're trying to avoid?

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
<dihedral88888 at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affdfs... at b.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > i'm developing a new program.
>> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
>> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
>> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
>> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
>> > db: that's the question
>> >
>> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
>> > sqlite at the beginning.
>> >
>> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>> >
>> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
>> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
>> > Thank you all
>> >
>> > MedeoTL
>> >
>> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
>> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
>>
>> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
>> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
>> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
>> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
>> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
>>
>> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
>> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
>>
>> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
>> normalization.
>> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
>> the other good stuff.
>
> If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:29:52 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:29:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> you're trying to avoid?
> 
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> <dihedr... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affd... at b.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > i'm developing a new program.
> >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> >> > db: that's the question
> >> >
> >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> >> >
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >> >
> >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> >> > Thank you all
> >> >
> >> > MedeoTL
> >> >
> >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> >>
> >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> >>
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >>
> >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> >> normalization.
> >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> >> the other good stuff.
> >
> > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
  
Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
   
Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:29:52 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:29:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> you're trying to avoid?
> 
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> <dihedr... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <affd... at b.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > i'm developing a new program.
> >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> >> > db: that's the question
> >> >
> >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> >> >
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >> >
> >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> >> > Thank you all
> >> >
> >> > MedeoTL
> >> >
> >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> >>
> >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> >>
> >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> >>
> >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> >> normalization.
> >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> >> the other good stuff.
> >
> > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
  
Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
   
Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:49:14 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
Message-ID: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > you're trying to avoid?
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > <dihe... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > >> > Hi all,
> > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > >> > db: that's the question
> > >> >
> > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > >> >
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >> >
> > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > >> > Thank you all
> > >> >
> > >> > MedeoTL
> > >> >
> > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > >>
> > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > >>
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >>
> > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > >> normalization.
> > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > >> the other good stuff.
> > >
> > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
>   
> Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
>    
> Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base. I'll reserve 24 entries per row for book keeping. 
Thus the record can have 1000 entries maximum first. 
The number of record can be very large. 
Each value will be a string with type 1 byte  and the stored value 8 to 255 bytes represented as a string when fetching the value can be auto-transformed 
according to the type.  The sort and search will be rewritten for the comparison operator. 


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 27 03:49:14 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
Message-ID: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > you're trying to avoid?
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > <dihe... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > >> > Hi all,
> > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > >> > db: that's the question
> > >> >
> > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > >> >
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >> >
> > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > >> > Thank you all
> > >> >
> > >> > MedeoTL
> > >> >
> > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > >>
> > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > >>
> > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > >>
> > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > >> normalization.
> > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > >> the other good stuff.
> > >
> > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
>   
> Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
>    
> Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base. I'll reserve 24 entries per row for book keeping. 
Thus the record can have 1000 entries maximum first. 
The number of record can be very large. 
Each value will be a string with type 1 byte  and the stored value 8 to 255 bytes represented as a string when fetching the value can be auto-transformed 
according to the type.  The sort and search will be rewritten for the comparison operator. 


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 07:54:24 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:54:24 +1100
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed. I recently gave Haskell a go, and it was remarkable how
similar the package management is to Python's.

How well does the new "packaging" (set for release in Python 3.3?)
module deal with the problems?

With a better package management system, the half of the standard
library that nobody uses can be unceremoniously dumped, and their more
recent upstream versions used correctly. Even distutils itself is
"obsolete", the first recommendation people give is to replace it with
distribute and/or pip.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:28 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 6:40?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>> it's an all-out disgrace.
>>
>> when is python going to get a decent module distribution system???
>>
>> and don't tell me to do it myself: it's clear that the sorry
>> situation we have now is precisely that too many programmers without
>> the requisite expertise or policy-making authority have decided to
>> pitch in. ?This is something for GvR and his top Python core library
>> team to do, because the problems are as much policy and institutional
>> ones as they are technical (programming) ones.
>
> I second this.
>
> The only thing I disagree about is that GvR is 'top' enough to handle
> this.
> For example on my debian box my python system is a mishmash of debian-
> apt-packages,
> eggs, and hand-installed stuff. ?[I believe I tried something like
> pypi and did not succeed -- dont exactly remember]
> So for systems like mine python and apt need to talk courteously to
> each other -- not possible for the likes of u&me; hard even for the
> likes of GvR.
>
> Frankly, this is not great but could be much worse. ?Some years ago
> when I worked with Ruby on Rails the rails that came from debian was
> an travesty. ?After some suffering I gathered that the optimal
> diplomacy was:
> - ruby from apt
> - gem hand installed
> - rails from gem
>
> While Ive never seen anything as ridiculous as the debian-rails in the
> python world, its still always a hobson choice: ?use a deb package
> that will cleanly install, deinstall, upgrade etc but is out of date
> or use a fresh and shiny egg that messes up the system.
>
> Haskell's cabal/hackage system is just as much a mess
> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/f3lh5/haskells_own_dll_hell/
>
> In short the mess arises from this that each of these languages comes
> up with its own package management system, neglecting the fact that
> the language invariably exists in a larger ecosystem
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 08:04:01 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:04:01 +1100
Subject: Return of an old friend
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqmudSR8Ea6QMYAvSDF+zAi2pwjtKNcFGcZzmzbnBA5bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<f036f2e0-8453-4b20-8a9f-06b24f576ac2@d12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqmudSR8Ea6QMYAvSDF+zAi2pwjtKNcFGcZzmzbnBA5bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1PtGX-oEAFT1G+T_0X7pg_Uuk-3zgA9TjkpxxkdhpQKsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:38 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:11 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rick!
>> Glad to see you back!
>> [Courts can be dull places without jesters ye-know!]
>
> So, what... you'd take someone to court for being funny? That sounds
> like the -other- Pythons.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Burn!! :D


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Sun Nov 27 09:33:22 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:33:22 +0100
Subject: why is bytearray treated so inefficiently by pickle?
Message-ID: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

Hi,

A bytearray is pickled (using max protocol) as follows:

>>> pickletools.dis(pickle.dumps(bytearray([255]*10),2))
    0: \x80 PROTO      2
    2: c    GLOBAL     '__builtin__ bytearray'
   25: q    BINPUT     0
   27: X    BINUNICODE u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff'
   52: q    BINPUT     1
   54: U    SHORT_BINSTRING 'latin-1'
   63: q    BINPUT     2
   65: \x86 TUPLE2
   66: q    BINPUT     3
   68: R    REDUCE
   69: q    BINPUT     4
   71: .    STOP

>>> bytearray("\xff"*10).__reduce__()
(<type 'bytearray'>, (u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff', 'latin-1'), None)


Is there a particular reason it is encoded so inefficiently? Most notably, the actual
*bytes* in the bytearray are represented by an UTF-8 string. This needs to be
transformed into a unicode string and then encoded back into bytes, when unpickled. The
thing being a bytearray, I would expect it to be pickled as such: a sequence of bytes.
And then possibly converted back to bytearray using the constructor that takes the bytes
directly (BINSTRING/BINBYTES pickle opcodes).

The above occurs both on Python 2.x and 3.x.

Any ideas? Candidate for a patch?


Irmen.



From delmarmcbride at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 09:57:10 2011
From: delmarmcbride at gmail.com (Horace Quinn)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:57:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Buy Google AdWords Vouchers & Coupons
Message-ID: <8e9c5394-68c9-449e-bbf5-4fdcfd5b3d39@f30g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

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From: delmarmcbride at gmail.com (Horace Quinn)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:59:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Buy Google AdWords Vouchers & Coupons
Message-ID: <158025fc-151e-456f-81e8-abcdcf8c8210@s17g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

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From delmarmcbride at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 09:59:29 2011
From: delmarmcbride at gmail.com (Horace Quinn)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:59:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hii
Message-ID: <2d643f3a-ee29-4ced-9471-7d44b101ef35@n22g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 11:46:26 2011
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:46:26 +0100
Subject: [ANN]  Android Debug Bridge (ADB)  Scripting Language For Android
	(SL4A)  convenience library
Message-ID: <4ED26962.8070901@gmail.com>

hello,

The information on ADB / SL4A is quiet overwhelming.
Despite that, especially for people, not familiar with Linux, it's not an easy task to get their 
first program running.
This library allows you to easy upload and run Python files on a Android device, without pressing 
any button on the Android device.

After installing SL4A and Py4A on the Android device, and ADB on the hostmachine, it's just a matter 
of connecting the USB cable between Android device and host-PC, and run the program.

One of the simplest program that will run out of the box (without touching any button on the Android 
device) :

# *****************************************************
from adb_sl4a_support import ADB_Connection

ADB = ADB_Connection ()
print ADB

# Create a simple program
Simple_Program = """
import android
droid = android.Android (( '%s', %s ))
droid.makeToast ( "Wasn't that easy?")
""" % ( ADB.SL4A_Servers [-1][0], ADB.SL4A_Servers [-1][1] )

# execute the program (this will run the program from the host PC !!)
exec ( Simple_Program )
# *****************************************************

you can find the library here:
http://code.google.com/p/pylab-works/downloads/detail?name=adb_sl4a_support.py&can=2&q=

cheers,
Stef


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sun Nov 27 12:19:27 2011
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:19:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: suitability of python
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jatreu$j3g$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2011-11-24, Rudra Banerjee <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?

You'll have to tell us what "these type of heavy computation" are
before we can answer.  There are a _lot_ of heavy-duty computational
libraries (many of them written in FORTAN) that have been interfaced
to Python (BLAS and so on).  If the heavy lifting can be done by those
libraries, Python might be very suitable.

You might want to check out scipy, Scientific Python, and the
Enthought python distro.

http://www.scipy.org/
http://dirac.cnrs-orleans.fr/plone/software/scientificpython/overview/
http://www.enthought.com/products/epd.php



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Nov 27 12:54:47 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:54:47 +0000
Subject: suitability of python
In-Reply-To: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
References: <1322137895.4211.3.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <jatth7$4ij$1@dough.gmane.org>

Rudra Banerjee, 24.11.2011 12:31:
> I am a newbie in python and basically i use python for postprocessing
> like plotting, data manipulation etc.
> Based on ease of programming on python I am wondering if I can consider
> it for the main development as well. My jobs (written on fortran) runs
> for weeks and quite CPU intensive. How python works on these type of
> heavy computation?

You already got a lot of answers that pointed you to the scientific 
computing tools that are available for Python. The reason why they exist is 
because (and nowadays also "why") Python is so extremely popular in that 
field: it's an easy to learn and use language and the standard 
implementation (often referred to as CPython) makes it really easy to 
interface with external code (C/C++/Fortran/etc.) in a very efficient way.

In addition to looking at NumPy/SciPy and/or Sage (depending on the kind of 
computations you are involved with), you should also look at fwrap and 
Cython. They will allow you to easily wrap your existing Fortran code for 
Python, and to quickly write very fast glue code for the two language 
environments. Thus, you can keep your existing code as it is, and use and 
control it from Python, using all the nice tools that Python provides for 
quickly writing anything from distributed code and test suites to graphical 
user interfaces for visualising your data. Since you specifically asked 
about plotting, don't miss out on matplotlib.

Stefan



From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 13:57:29 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:57:29 +0100
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
Message-ID: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hi,

I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.

These documents have a very limited number of different doc types / DTDs.

So what I would like to do is to build a small DTD cache and some code,
that would avoid searching the DTDs over and over from the net.

What would be the best way to do this?
I guess, that
the fields od en ElementTre, that I have to look at are
docinfo.public_id
docinfo.system_uri

There's also mentioning af a catalogue, but I don't know how to
use a catalog and how to know what is inside my catalogue
and what isn't.


Below a non working skeleto (first shot):
---------------------------------------------
Would this be the right way??

### ufnctions with '???' are not implemented / are the ones
### where I don't know whether they exist alreday.

import os
import urllib

from lxml import etree

cache_dir = os.path.join(os.environ['HOME'], ''.my_dtd_cache')

def get_from_cache(docinfo):
    """ the function which I'd like to implement most efficiently """
    fpi = docinfo.public_id
    uri = docinfo.system_uri
    dtd = ???get_from_dtd_cache(fpi, uri)
    if dtd is not None:
        return dtd
    # how can I check what is in my 'catalogue'
    if ???dtd_in_catalogue(??):
        return ???get_dtd_from_catalogue???
    dtd_rdr = urllib.urlopen(uri)
    dtd_filename = ???create_cache_filename(docinfo)
    (fname, _headers) = urllib.urlretrieve(uri, dtd_filename)
    return  etree.DTD(fname)


def check_doc_cached(filename):
    """ function, which should report errors
        if a doc doesn't validate.
    """
    doc = etree.parse(filename)
    dtd = get_from_cache(doc.docinfo)
    rslt = dtd.validate(doc)
    if not rlst:
        print "validate error:"
        print(dtd.error_log.filter_from_errors()[0])







From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov 27 15:29:13 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:29:13 -0500
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
References: <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
 
> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.

I'm sure you could roll your own validator with lxml and some DTDs, but 
you would probably save yourself a huge amount of effort by just using 
the validator the W3C provides (http://validator.w3.org/).


From gordon at panix.com  Sun Nov 27 16:33:44 2011
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:33:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
References: <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jauabo$sbr$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011 at news.panix.com> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> In article <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list at python.org>,
>  Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
> > I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.

> I'm sure you could roll your own validator with lxml and some DTDs, but 
> you would probably save yourself a huge amount of effort by just using 
> the validator the W3C provides (http://validator.w3.org/).

With regards to XML, he may mean that he wants to validate that the
document conforms to a specific format, not just that it is generally
valid XML.  I don't think the w3 validator will do that.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Nov 27 16:46:13 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:46:13 +1100
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111127214613.GA11514@cskk.homeip.net>

On 27Nov2011 23:54, Matt Joiner <anacrolix at gmail.com> wrote:
| Agreed. I recently gave Haskell a go, and it was remarkable how
| similar the package management is to Python's.
| 
| How well does the new "packaging" (set for release in Python 3.3?)
| module deal with the problems?
| 
| With a better package management system, the half of the standard
| library that nobody uses can be unceremoniously dumped, and their more
| recent upstream versions used correctly. Even distutils itself is
| "obsolete", the first recommendation people give is to replace it with
| distribute and/or pip.

Ah the cheery optimism of the end user.
Package systems have a lot of fun complications.

Install for the user only? For the whole system?
Architecture specific?
What if people want access to different versions of a package?
What about vendor supplied (eg RPM) versus user obtained? They'll fight,
one way or another. What if policy has user supplied installing to its
own tree (sensible to avoid conflicts) - the fetch/install kit need to
know this.
What about stability? Your "half of the standard library that nobody uses can
be unceremoniously dumped, and their more recent upstream versions used
correctly" leads to bugs in the apps that use the packages if they depend on
particular versions/APIs. The stdlib is generally quite careful about
breaking APIs but other packagers often are less so.

I can make this list bigger or more detailed if you want.  All package
systems have these issues. They're not as trivial as you might imagine.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

The problem with elections is that the government always wins.
        - Chris Rudram <csr100 at unix.york.ac.uk>


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 17:21:01 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 1:53?pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 6:46?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello:
>
> > I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
> > a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
> > Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
> > for code blocks,
>
> I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
> being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
> the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
> folly?
>
> And please, i love Python, but the language is a bit asymmetrical. Do
> try to bring some symmetry to this new language. You can learn a lot
> from GvR's triumphs, however, you can learn even more from his follys.

Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs
would go away and many implementations have done just that. I have
been seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of
spaces, such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or
even 8 spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).

I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint.
That can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down
and the size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
re-learning whenever you use a new module.

My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead
of creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.

[| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]

Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
for a special keyword. I also distinguish between initialization and
assignment via the let keyword. Also, non-locals do not need to be
defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more
"anal".

In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume
that any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told
in college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I
think the same thing could be said for a language. The only language
without flaws would be so small that it would be useless.

I love these types of discussions though, because it helps me to be
aware. When designing a language, it is extremely helpful to hear what
language features have led to problems. For instance, C#'s foreach
loops internally reuse a variable, which translates to something like
this:

using (IEnumerator<T> enumerator = enumerable.GetEnumerator())
{
    T current;
    while (enumerator.MoveNext())
    {
        current = enumerator.Current;
        // inner loop code goes here
    }
}

Since the same variable is reused, threads referencing the loop
variable work against whatever value is currently in the variable,
rather than the value when the thread was created. Most of the time,
this means every thread works against the same value, which isn't the
expected outcome. Moving the variable inside the loop _may_ help, but
it would probably be optimized back out of the loop by the compiler.
With the growth of threaded applications, these types of stack-based
optimizations may come to an end. That is why it is important for a
next-gen language to have a smarter stack - one that is context
sensitive. In Unit, the stack grows and shrinks like a dynamic array,
at each scope, rather than at the beginning and end of each function.
Sure, there's a slight cost in performance, but a boost in
consistency. If a programmer really wants the performance, they can
move the variable out of the loop themselves.

In fact, there are a lot of features in Unit that will come with
overhead, such as default arguments, non-locals, function-objects,
etc. However, the game plan is to avoid the overhead if it isn't used.
Some things, such as exception handling, will be hard to provide
without overhead. My belief is that, provided a tool, most developers
will use it and accept the slight runtime overhead.

I think everyone has an idea about what would make for the perfect
language. I am always willing to entertain ideas. I have pulled from
many sources: C#, Java, Python, JavaScript, F#, Lisp and more. The
hope is to provide as much expression with as much consistency as
possible. Just the other day I spent 2 hours trying to determine how
to create a null pointer (yeah, it took that long).

let pi = null as shared * Integer32 # null is always a pointer

Originally, I wanted 'as' to be a safe conversion. However, I decided
to make use of the 'try' keyword to mean a safe conversion.

let nd = try base as shared * Derived
let d = if nd.Succeeded: nd.Value else: null
# or, shorthand
let i = try Integer32.Parse("123") else 0

Of course, the last line could cost performance wise. For that reason,
Unit will allow for "try" versions of methods.

let Parse = public static method (value: String)
throws(FormatException UnderflowException OverflowException)
returns(Integer32): ...
and Parse = public static try method (value: String)
returns(TryResult<Integer32>): ...

Of course, such methods are required to never throw and must return a
specific named tuple type.

Type, type, type. In short, I can only hope my language is useful and
that I dodge as many inconsistencies as possible. The good thing about
an unknown language is that no one gets mad when things change. In
that sense, Python's annoyances are probably an indication of its
quality. :-)


From colinh at somewhere.invalid  Sun Nov 27 18:02:37 2011
From: colinh at somewhere.invalid (Colin Higwell)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:02:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jaufid$4fr$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:

> On Nov 26, 1:53?pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 6:46?pm, Travis Parks <jehugalea... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello:
>>
>> > I am currently working on designing a new programming language. It is
>> > a compiled language, but I still want to use Python as a reference.
>> > Python has a lot of similarities to my language, such as indentation
>> > for code blocks,
>>
>> I hope you meant to say "*forced* indention for code blocks"! "Forced"
>> being the key word here. What about tabs over spaces, have you decided
>> the worth of one over the other or are you going to repeat Guido's
>> folly?
>>
>> And please, i love Python, but the language is a bit asymmetrical. Do
>> try to bring some symmetry to this new language. You can learn a lot
>> from GvR's triumphs, however, you can learn even more from his follys.
> 
> Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> go away and many implementations have done just that. I have been
> seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).
> 
> I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint. That
> can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down and the
> size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
> re-learning whenever you use a new module.
> 
> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
> 
> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
> 
> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> a special keyword. I also distinguish between initialization and
> assignment via the let keyword. Also, non-locals do not need to be
> defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more "anal".
> 
> In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume that
> any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told in
> college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I think the
> same thing could be said for a language. The only language without flaws
> would be so small that it would be useless.
> 
> I love these types of discussions though, because it helps me to be
> aware. When designing a language, it is extremely helpful to hear what
> language features have led to problems. For instance, C#'s foreach loops
> internally reuse a variable, which translates to something like this:
> 
> using (IEnumerator<T> enumerator = enumerable.GetEnumerator())
> {
>     T current;
>     while (enumerator.MoveNext())
>     {
>         current = enumerator.Current;
>         // inner loop code goes here
>     }
> }
> 
> Since the same variable is reused, threads referencing the loop variable
> work against whatever value is currently in the variable, rather than
> the value when the thread was created. Most of the time, this means
> every thread works against the same value, which isn't the expected
> outcome. Moving the variable inside the loop _may_ help, but it would
> probably be optimized back out of the loop by the compiler. With the
> growth of threaded applications, these types of stack-based
> optimizations may come to an end. That is why it is important for a
> next-gen language to have a smarter stack - one that is context
> sensitive. In Unit, the stack grows and shrinks like a dynamic array, at
> each scope, rather than at the beginning and end of each function. Sure,
> there's a slight cost in performance, but a boost in consistency. If a
> programmer really wants the performance, they can move the variable out
> of the loop themselves.
> 
> In fact, there are a lot of features in Unit that will come with
> overhead, such as default arguments, non-locals, function-objects, etc.
> However, the game plan is to avoid the overhead if it isn't used. Some
> things, such as exception handling, will be hard to provide without
> overhead. My belief is that, provided a tool, most developers will use
> it and accept the slight runtime overhead.
> 
> I think everyone has an idea about what would make for the perfect
> language. I am always willing to entertain ideas. I have pulled from
> many sources: C#, Java, Python, JavaScript, F#, Lisp and more. The hope
> is to provide as much expression with as much consistency as possible.
> Just the other day I spent 2 hours trying to determine how to create a
> null pointer (yeah, it took that long).
> 
> let pi = null as shared * Integer32 # null is always a pointer
> 
> Originally, I wanted 'as' to be a safe conversion. However, I decided to
> make use of the 'try' keyword to mean a safe conversion.
> 
> let nd = try base as shared * Derived let d = if nd.Succeeded: nd.Value
> else: null # or, shorthand let i = try Integer32.Parse("123") else 0
> 
> Of course, the last line could cost performance wise. For that reason,
> Unit will allow for "try" versions of methods.
> 
> let Parse = public static method (value: String) throws(FormatException
> UnderflowException OverflowException) returns(Integer32): ...
> and Parse = public static try method (value: String)
> returns(TryResult<Integer32>): ...
> 
> Of course, such methods are required to never throw and must return a
> specific named tuple type.
> 
> Type, type, type. In short, I can only hope my language is useful and
> that I dodge as many inconsistencies as possible. The good thing about
> an unknown language is that no one gets mad when things change. In that
> sense, Python's annoyances are probably an indication of its quality.
> :-)

Most of this is way above my head but FWIW, I am very happy with four 
spaces for indentation. I forget now what I used in BASIC and COBOL, but 
I have always used four spaces in PL/SQL, PL/pgSQL, PL/Tcl, c, ksh, bash 
and Python.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Nov 27 18:55:09 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Nov 2011 23:55:09 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:

> Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> go away and many implementations have done just that.

Tabs have every theoretical advantage and only one practical 
disadvantage: the common toolsets used by Unix programmers are crap in 
their handling of tabs, and instead of fixing the toolsets, they blame 
the tabs.

The use of spaces as indentation is a clear case of a technically worse 
solution winning over a better solution.


> I have been
> seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).

Why on earth should your language dictate the width of an indentation? I 
can understand that you might care that indents are consistent within a 
single source code unit (a file?), but anything more than that is just 
obnoxious.


> I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint. That
> can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down and the
> size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
> re-learning whenever you use a new module.

I know what disjoint means, but I don't understand what you think it 
means for a software library to be disjoint. I don't understand the rest 
of the paragraph.


> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
> 
> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]

Are we supposed to intuit what that means? 

Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ? 

Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over 
what looks like a float 0.10? 

What is "yield return"?


> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> a special keyword.

That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in 
Python, but Python requires a special keyword.


> I also distinguish between initialization and
> assignment via the let keyword.

What does this mean? I can guess, but I might guess wrong.


> Also, non-locals do not need to be
> defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more "anal".

What does this mean? I can't even guess what you consider more anal 
scoping rules.


> In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume that
> any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told in
> college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I think the
> same thing could be said for a language. The only language without flaws
> would be so small that it would be useless.

I'm pretty sure that being so small that it is useless would count as a 
flaw.

What does it mean to say that a language is "small"?

A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few 
instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell, 
branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed, 
anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine: a Turing Machine 
can do anything you can do in C, Lisp, Fortran, Python, Java... and very 
probably anything you can (mentally) do, full stop. So what does that 
mean about "small" languages?

On the other hand, take Epigram, a functional programming language:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_(programming_language)

It is *less* powerful than a Turing Machine, despite being far more 
complex. Similarly languages like regular expressions, finite automata 
and context-free grammers are more complex, "bigger", possibly with 
dozens or hundreds of instructions, and yet less powerful. Likewise for 
spreadsheets without cycles.

Forth is much smaller than Java, but I would say that Forth is much, much 
more powerful in some sense than Java. You could write a Java compiler in 
Forth more easily than you could write a Forth compiler in Java.



-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 19:26:17 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:26:17 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrGOXVnUhYZBGE0Mjjqa1VoZAD95kja49nv4D95TpzAOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> What does it mean to say that a language is "small"?
>
> A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few
> instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell,
> branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed,
> anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine...

Ook has only three tokens (okay, it's a derivative of BrainF** so it
kinda has eight, but they're implemented on three). It's
Turing-complete, but it is so small as to be useless for any practical
purposes. The ONLY way to use Ook for any useful code would be to
write an interpreter for another language in it, and use that other
language.

However, Ook can be proven to be flawless, as can an Ook interpreter,
much more easily than a full-featured language like Python or C.

ChrisA


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 19:32:33 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 01:32:33 +0100
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
In-Reply-To: <jauabo$sbr$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list@python.org>	<roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011@news.panix.com>
	<jauabo$sbr$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jaukr2$m7h$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/27/2011 10:33 PM, John Gordon wrote:
> In <roy-6F0FD0.15291227112011 at news.panix.com> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> 
>> In article <mailman.3078.1322420265.27778.python-list at python.org>,
>>  Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  
>>> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.
> 
>> I'm sure you could roll your own validator with lxml and some DTDs, but 
>> you would probably save yourself a huge amount of effort by just using 
>> the validator the W3C provides (http://validator.w3.org/).

This validator requires that I post the code to some host.
The contents that I'd like to verify is intranet contents, which I am
not allowed to post to an external site.
> 
> With regards to XML, he may mean that he wants to validate that the
> document conforms to a specific format, not just that it is generally
> valid XML.  I don't think the w3 validator will do that.
> 


Basically I want to integrate this into a django unit test.

I noticed, that some of of the templates generate documents with
mismatching DTD headers / contents.
All of the HTML code is parsable as xml (if it isn't it's a bug)

There are also some custom XML files, which have their specific DTDs

So I thought about validating some of the generated html with lxml.

the django test environment allows to run test clients, which are
supposedly much faster than a real http client.



From devplayer at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 20:20:13 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:20:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell that saves history of typed in commands that will
	persist between reboots
References: <4737007e-029d-4ecb-9315-f3ceb4bb06ed@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f240c085-d51f-4b72-8ee2-fed8df00a8fd@o1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 15, 10:38?pm, goldtech <goldt... at worldpost.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using Windows. Is there a python shell that has a history of typed in
> commands?
>
> I don't need output of commands just what I typed it. I need it to
> save between sessions - something that no shell seems to do. If I
> reboot there will still be a command history somewhere.
>
> Like bash history in Linux.
>
> Thanks

Something that might be of interest is wxPython's pyslicesshell.py
it's not commandline in console window but the interpreter in a
window. And you can save it.

I haven't used it lately by there's also PythonWin
http://python.net/crew/skippy/win32/PythonwinPreview.html


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 27 21:09:47 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:09:47 -0500
Subject: why is bytearray treated so inefficiently by pickle?
In-Reply-To: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <jauqhb$k8p$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/27/2011 9:33 AM, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A bytearray is pickled (using max protocol) as follows:
>
>>>> pickletools.dis(pickle.dumps(bytearray([255]*10),2))
>      0: \x80 PROTO      2
>      2: c    GLOBAL     '__builtin__ bytearray'
>     25: q    BINPUT     0
>     27: X    BINUNICODE u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff'
>     52: q    BINPUT     1
>     54: U    SHORT_BINSTRING 'latin-1'
>     63: q    BINPUT     2
>     65: \x86 TUPLE2
>     66: q    BINPUT     3
>     68: R    REDUCE
>     69: q    BINPUT     4
>     71: .    STOP
>
>>>> bytearray("\xff"*10).__reduce__()
> (<type 'bytearray'>, (u'\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff', 'latin-1'), None)
>
>
> Is there a particular reason it is encoded so inefficiently? Most notably, the actual
> *bytes* in the bytearray are represented by an UTF-8 string. This needs to be
> transformed into a unicode string and then encoded back into bytes, when unpickled. The
> thing being a bytearray, I would expect it to be pickled as such: a sequence of bytes.
> And then possibly converted back to bytearray using the constructor that takes the bytes
> directly (BINSTRING/BINBYTES pickle opcodes).
>
> The above occurs both on Python 2.x and 3.x.
>
> Any ideas? Candidate for a patch?

Possibly. The two developers listed as particularly interested in pickle 
are 'alexandre.vassalotti,pitrou' (antoine), so if you do open a tracker 
issue, add them as nosy.

Take a look at http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3154/
by Antoine Pitrou or forwary your message to him.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From fpm at u.washington.edu  Sun Nov 27 23:16:43 2011
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (cassiope)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
Message-ID: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

I've been trying to migrate some code to using the standard python
logging classes/objects.  And they seem quite capable of doing what I
need them to do.  Unfortunately there's a problem in my unit tests.
It's fairly common to have to create quite a few entities in the
course of a series of tests.  What appears to be happening is that the
loggers don't get entirely eliminated, so that new invocations end up
spewing output messages from each of the loggers that were started
with this invocation of the python interpreter.

I haven't found a function within the logging module that completely
kills a given instance.  The removeHandler() function seems to leave a
stdout/stderr output even if all the assigned handlers have been
removed.  I've tried a few workarounds, such as increasing the level
to an absurdly large level, which mostly kinda works, and killing the
old entity before creating the new test version.

There is probably something simple that I'm missing.  If you know what
that is, please point me to that fine manual - I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!

    -f


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 23:25:16 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:25:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3079.1322430384.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <46c11371-411a-4ba0-89b9-967e2f83e942@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 2:46?am, Cameron Simpson <c... at zip.com.au> wrote:
> On 27Nov2011 23:54, Matt Joiner <anacro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> | Agreed. I recently gave Haskell a go, and it was remarkable how
> | similar the package management is to Python's.
> |
> | How well does the new "packaging" (set for release in Python 3.3?)
> | module deal with the problems?
> |
> | With a better package management system, the half of the standard
> | library that nobody uses can be unceremoniously dumped, and their more
> | recent upstream versions used correctly. Even distutils itself is
> | "obsolete", the first recommendation people give is to replace it with
> | distribute and/or pip.
>
> Ah the cheery optimism of the end user.
> Package systems have a lot of fun complications.
>
> Install for the user only? For the whole system?
> Architecture specific?
> What if people want access to different versions of a package?
> What about vendor supplied (eg RPM) versus user obtained? They'll fight,
> one way or another. What if policy has user supplied installing to its
> own tree (sensible to avoid conflicts) - the fetch/install kit need to
> know this.
> What about stability? Your "half of the standard library that nobody uses can
> be unceremoniously dumped, and their more recent upstream versions used
> correctly" leads to bugs in the apps that use the packages if they depend on
> particular versions/APIs. The stdlib is generally quite careful about
> breaking APIs but other packagers often are less so.
>
> I can make this list bigger or more detailed if you want. ?All package
> systems have these issues. They're not as trivial as you might imagine.

Where is there any implication that there are not issues or that they
are trivial?
At the end of his life Dijkstra said: The single biggest problem in
computer science is how not to make a mess of it; that problem remains
unsolved.

The OP simply expressed a wish for improvement and I seconded that
[and pls ignore ranters with oedipal problems]

>From my post from a few months http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2011-May/1271765.html

If I may restate:
Too much mindshare is devoted to all the linguistic features of
python: garbage collection, identation, metaclasses and all that other
good stuff from the 70s and too little to extra-linguistic ecosystem
features below:

If the linguistic features were all that mattered Lisp would be the
king of languages today


>
> >    | Area             | Tool(s)                |
> >    |------------------+------------------------|
> >    | packaging        | distutils, setuptools, |
> >    |                  | distutils2, distribute |
> >    |                  | Native tools (eg apt)  |
> >    | versioning       | hg, git, bzr           |
> >    | multiple pythons | virtualenv             |
> >    | ??               | tox                    |
> >    | testing          | unittest, nose, pytest |
> >    | build            | scons, make...         |
> >    | deployment       | fabric                 |
>


From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov 27 23:31:42 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:31:42 -0500
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <CAB4yi1Nv3u78i0xj0tsCFs7fiOES1v-qGkG4tsd2XcbSVOnfDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3079.1322430384.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<46c11371-411a-4ba0-89b9-967e2f83e942@k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F65D0D.23314227112011@news.panix.com>

In article 
<46c11371-411a-4ba0-89b9-967e2f83e942 at k5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
 rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> If the linguistic features were all that mattered Lisp would be the
> king of languages today

(that (is (one (of (the (most (absurd (statements (I've (read (in (a 
(long (time))))))))))))))


From Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com  Sun Nov 27 23:31:59 2011
From: Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com (Shambhu Rajak)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:31:59 +0000
Subject: Automatic import of submodules
In-Reply-To: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <459a7690-ca58-4fad-80f4-349ca4ac4fe3@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CA4BA@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Massi [mailto:massi_srb at msn.com] 
Sent: 25/11/2011 6:30 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Automatic import of submodules

Hi everyone,

in my project I have the following directory structure:

plugins
    |
    -- wav_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- WavPlug.py
    -- mp3_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- Mp3Plug.py
...
    -- etc_plug
          |
          -- __init__.py
          -- EtcPlug.py

Every .py file contain a class definition whose name is identical to
to the file name, so in my main script I have to import each submodule
like that:

from plugins.wav_plug.WavPlug import WavPlug
from plugins.wav_plug.Mp3Plug import Mp3Plug

and so on. This is uncomfortable, since when a new plugin is added I
have to import it too. So my question is, is it possible to iterate
through the 'plugins' directory tree in order to automatically import
the submodules contained in each subdirectory?
I googled and found that the pkgutil could help, but it is not clear
how. Any hints?
Thanks in advance.


=====
What you could do is : 

Instead of importing method wise , import the module.

from plugins.wav_plug import WavPlug  

you can then use like this then
WavPlug.WavPlug

This will avoid the-every time importing of each method

Regards,
Shambhu




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 23:37:41 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:37:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> While Ive never seen anything as ridiculous as the debian-rails in the
> python world, its still always a hobson choice: ?use a deb package
> that will cleanly install, deinstall, upgrade etc but is out of date
> or use a fresh and shiny egg that messes up the system.

The only time I use the OS package manager to install a Python library
is if some other application requires it as a dependency.

If you're not making the distinction between your system install of
Python and your development install, you're really inviting a whole
world of pain and confusion on yourself.

With that approach in mind, I've never had any real issues using pip,
virtualenv etc for managing my development environment.



From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Nov 28 02:13:15 2011
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:13:15 +0000
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
In-Reply-To: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3348B.4020301@simplistix.co.uk>

On 28/11/2011 04:16, cassiope wrote:
> I've been trying to migrate some code to using the standard python
> logging classes/objects.  And they seem quite capable of doing what I
> need them to do.  Unfortunately there's a problem in my unit tests.
> It's fairly common to have to create quite a few entities in the
> course of a series of tests.  What appears to be happening is that the
> loggers don't get entirely eliminated, so that new invocations end up
> spewing output messages from each of the loggers that were started
> with this invocation of the python interpreter.

Two suggestions:

- unless you are specifically testing the logging set up of your 
application, your code under test shouldn't be setting up logging.

- if you want to check that your code under test is emitting log 
messages correctly, use a LogCapture from testfixtures:

http://packages.python.org/testfixtures.

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
             - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 02:18:15 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:18:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 9:37?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:

> With that approach in mind, I've never had any real issues using pip,
> virtualenv etc for managing my development environment.

Yes that is in a way my point also: we discuss (things like) pip,
virtualenv etc too little.

Try working out the ratio of the number of helps/tutorials on
functions/lists/types/classes to those on these extra-linguistic
features needed for environment/build/deployment/versioning and you
can see the skewness of focus


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov 28 02:38:12 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:38:12 +0000
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
In-Reply-To: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <javdp4$s7g$1@dough.gmane.org>

Gelonida N, 27.11.2011 18:57:
> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.
>
> These documents have a very limited number of different doc types / DTDs.
>
> So what I would like to do is to build a small DTD cache and some code,
> that would avoid searching the DTDs over and over from the net.
>
> What would be the best way to do this?

Configure your XML catalogues.


> I guess, that
> the fields od en ElementTre, that I have to look at are
> docinfo.public_id
> docinfo.system_uri

Yes, catalogue lookups generally happen through the public ID.


> There's also mentioning af a catalogue, but I don't know how to
> use a catalog and how to know what is inside my catalogue
> and what isn't.

Does this help?

http://lxml.de/resolvers.html#xml-catalogs

http://xmlsoft.org/catalog.html

They should normally come pre-configured on Linux distributions, but you 
may have to install additional packages with the respective DTDs. Look for 
any packages with "dtd" and "html" in their name, for example.

Stefan



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 28 03:51:06 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:51:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
	<15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
Message-ID: <18928439.420.1322470266331.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:49:14 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > > you're trying to avoid?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > > <dih... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi all,
> > > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > > >> > db: that's the question
> > > >> >
> > > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > > >> > Thank you all
> > > >> >
> > > >> > MedeoTL
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > > >>
> > > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > > >>
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >>
> > > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > > >> normalization.
> > > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > > >> the other good stuff.
> > > >
> > > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > 
> > A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
> >   
> > Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> > I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
> >    
> > Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
> Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
> Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base.

For the same value stored , I need a column_no+next stored, a list.   
 All relations can be derived.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Mon Nov 28 03:51:06 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:51:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my new project, is this the right way?
In-Reply-To: <15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
References: <4ec0f070$0$1378$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
	<581dab49-e6b0-4fea-915c-4a41fa887c3b@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<11840843.114.1322350898307.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi36>
	<mailman.3070.1322366629.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<24389083.226.1322382592895.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prij11>
	<15951139.49.1322383754305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>
Message-ID: <18928439.420.1322470266331.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv8>

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:49:14 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:29:52 PM UTC+8, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:03:26 PM UTC+8, Matt Joiner wrote:
> > > Sounds like you want a key-value store. If it's a lot of data, you may
> > > still want a "database", I think it's just relational databases that
> > > you're trying to avoid?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM, 88888 Dihedral
> > > <dih... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:01:34 AM UTC+8, rusi wrote:
> > > >> On Nov 14, 3:41?pm, Tracubik <aff... at b.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi all,
> > > >> > i'm developing a new program.
> > > >> > Mission: learn a bit of database management
> > > >> > Idea: create a simple, 1 window program that show me a db of movies i've
> > > >> > seen with few (<10) fields (actors, name, year etc)
> > > >> > technologies i'll use: python + gtk
> > > >> > db: that's the question
> > > >> >
> > > >> > since i'm mostly a new-bye for as regard databases, my idea is to use
> > > >> > sqlite at the beginning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > is there any general tutorial of how to start developing a database? i
> > > >> > mean a general guide to databases you can suggest to me?
> > > >> > Thank you all
> > > >> >
> > > >> > MedeoTL
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.s. since i have a ods sheet files (libreoffice calc), is there a way to
> > > >> > easily convert it in a sqlite db? (maybe via csv)
> > > >>
> > > >> To learn DBMS you need to learn sql
> > > >> [Note sql is necessary but not sufficient for learning DBMS]
> > > >> I recommend lightweight approaches to start with -- others have
> > > >> mentioned access, libreoffice-base.
> > > >> One more lightweight playpen is firefox plugin sqlite-manager
> > > >>
> > > >> > Is that ok? any other db to start with? (pls don't say mysql or similar,
> > > >> > they are too complex and i'll use this in a second step)
> > > >>
> > > >> Correct. First you must figure out how to structure data -- jargon is
> > > >> normalization.
> > > >> After that you can look at transactions, ACID, distribution and all
> > > >> the other good stuff.
> > > >
> > > > If I have a fast hash library ?that each hash function supports insertion and deletion and can be frozen to be stored into the file system if desired and retrieved lator . Can I use several hashes to replace a database that is slow and expensive?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > 
> > A database with most entries in fixed bytes and types and several  types that can have varied lengths of 8 to 256 bytes. If an entry is larger than 256 bytes, it will be saved as a file but only the file name is saved in my data base.
> >   
> > Each entry is just a type and value stored  in a row of my database.
> > I''ll limit the number of entries in a row or so called a recored to some limit first, 1024 first. 
> >    
> > Can I do this in 1024 hashes in python ?
> Sorry I 'll use (k=column_in_a_row, v=value) and (k=value, v=column_in_a_row)
> Thus, two hashes per column in  my database, therefore  2048 hashes to manage the data base.

For the same value stored , I need a column_no+next stored, a list.   
 All relations can be derived.


From ramapraba2653 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 05:05:01 2011
From: ramapraba2653 at gmail.com (SUPREME)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 02:05:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: XXX HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
Message-ID: <be21b051-326f-4fed-8819-63d91959abdb@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com>


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From gelonida at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 05:15:58 2011
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:58 +0100
Subject: lxml precaching DTD for document verification.
In-Reply-To: <javdp4$s7g$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jau16p$rtv$1@dough.gmane.org> <javdp4$s7g$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <javn0v$rhc$1@dough.gmane.org>

Thanks Stefan,


On 11/28/2011 08:38 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Gelonida N, 27.11.2011 18:57:
>> I'd like to verify some (x)html / / html5 / xml documents from a server.
>>
>> These documents have a very limited number of different doc types / DTDs.
>>
>> So what I would like to do is to build a small DTD cache and some code,
>> that would avoid searching the DTDs over and over from the net.
>>
>> What would be the best way to do this?
> 
> Configure your XML catalogues.
. . .
> 
> Yes, catalogue lookups generally happen through the public ID.
> 
> . . . 
> Does this help?
> 
> http://lxml.de/resolvers.html#xml-catalogs
> 
> http://xmlsoft.org/catalog.html

These links look perfect.
> 
> They should normally come pre-configured on Linux distributions, but you
> may have to install additional packages with the respective DTDs. Look
> for any packages with "dtd" and "html" in their name, for example.
> 
Thanks once more.
Indeed the package w3c-dtd-xhtml wasn't installed on my Ubuntu host.

I'll check this lateron today.
(Just have to remove my own hackish cashing solution, which downloads if
not found in a cash dir)





From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 06:42:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 11:42:30 GMT
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:18:15 -0800, rusi wrote:

> On Nov 28, 9:37?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> With that approach in mind, I've never had any real issues using pip,
>> virtualenv etc for managing my development environment.
> 
> Yes that is in a way my point also: we discuss (things like) pip,
> virtualenv etc too little.

I don't know about that. I think we discuss things like pip, etc. exactly 
the right amount.


> Try working out the ratio of the number of helps/tutorials on
> functions/lists/types/classes to those on these extra-linguistic
> features needed for environment/build/deployment/versioning and you can
> see the skewness of focus

We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the 
problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL 
problems that they have experienced and asking about. If there are 10 or 
100 times more answers about (say) classes than about (say) pip, that is 
because there are 10 or 100 times as many questions about classes.

Maybe that's because pip users are cleverer, more experienced and don't 
have problems; maybe it's because only 1 in 100 people go on to use pip. 
Maybe it's because pip is a heap of trash that nobody touches; or perhaps 
it is so fantastic that nobody has any problems with it. Whatever the 
reason, there's no great big queue of unanswered questions about pip that 
I can see. Hence, ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing 
things about as much as we ought to.

(I don't mean to single out pip, it is just an example.)


-- 
Steven


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 06:45:57 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:45:57 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
Message-ID: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com>

I'm happily using the ast module to analyze some code,
but my scripts need also to run unfortunately on python 2.5

The _ast was there already, but the ast helpers not yet.
Is it ok if I just copy over the source from the ast helpers in my code base
or is there a smarter way?
(I don't even need all of them, just "parse" and NodeVisitor at the moment)


From jayronsoares at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 06:54:18 2011
From: jayronsoares at gmail.com (Jayron Soares)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:54:18 -0200
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
Message-ID: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys!

I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:

http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325

I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
    g, e = ministro_lei()
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in ministro_lei
    resp = Q.fetchall()
AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'

Please any help ?

cheers


-- 
*" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*

http://bucolick.tumblr.com
http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
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From felipe.vinturini at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 07:06:30 2011
From: felipe.vinturini at gmail.com (Felipe Vinturini)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:06:30 -0200
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jayron,

Instead of using "Q" to loop over the result, use: "dbcursor".

resp = dbcursor.fetchall()

I hope it helps.

Regards,
Felipe.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Jayron Soares <jayronsoares at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi guys!
>
> I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:
>
> http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325
>
> I get this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
>     g, e = ministro_lei()
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in ministro_lei
>     resp = Q.fetchall()
> AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'
>
> Please any help ?
>
> cheers
>
>
> --
> *" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*
>
> http://bucolick.tumblr.com
> http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 07:11:15 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 12:11:15 GMT
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to
	XML)
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <4ed37a63$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:01 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
> 
> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8',
> errors='replace') big_json = json.load(input_source)
> input_source.close()
> 
> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance of
> xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to rewrite
> dict keys as valid element names if necessary), 

How are you doing that? What do you consider valid?


> and I save the document:
> 
> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8',
> errors='replace') doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
> xml_file.close()
> 
> 
> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
> gives some errors like these on a few documents:

It will force the output to be valid UTF-8 encoded to bytes, not 
necessarily valid XML.


> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
> PCDATA invalid Char value 31

What's xmlstarlet, and at what point does it give this error? It doesn't 
appear to be in the standard library.



> I guess I need to process each piece of PCDATA to clean out the control
> characters before creating the text node:
> 
>   text = doc.createTextNode(j)
>   root.appendChild(text)
> 
> What's the best way to do that, bearing in mind that there can be
> multibyte characters in the strings?

Are you mixing unicode and byte strings?

Are you sure that the input source is actually UTF-8? If not, then all 
bets are off: even if the decoding step works, and returns a string, it 
may contain the wrong characters. This might explain why you are getting 
unexpected control characters in the output: they've come from a badly 
decoded input.

Another possibility is that your data actually does contain control 
characters where there shouldn't be any.


-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Nov 28 07:12:06 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:12:06 -0600
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
Message-ID: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com>

Are there best-practices for creating wizards or asking various 
questions (whether yes/no or text/numeric entry) in a cmd.Cmd 
class?  Something like the imaginary confirm() and get_string() 
methods here:

   class MyCmd(cmd.Cmd):
     def do_name(self,line):
       s = get_string(prompt=line, default="Whatever")
       ...
     def do_save(self,line):
       if os.path.isfile(line):
         if not confirm("%r exists. Continue?", True): return
       self.save(line)
     def save(self, filename):
       ...

I can monkey with printing messages and using raw_input(), but 
I'd like to know if there's a better way (such as something 
interacting with readline for 
text-entry-with-history-and-completion, or raw-character input 
for Y/N answers rather than the need to hit <enter>, making it 
feel more uniform),

Thanks,

-tkc




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 07:27:50 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:27:50 +0000
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <javuo7$lq0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/28/11 12:12 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> Are there best-practices for creating wizards or asking various questions
> (whether yes/no or text/numeric entry) in a cmd.Cmd class? Something like the
> imaginary confirm() and get_string() methods here:
>
> class MyCmd(cmd.Cmd):
> def do_name(self,line):
> s = get_string(prompt=line, default="Whatever")
> ...
> def do_save(self,line):
> if os.path.isfile(line):
> if not confirm("%r exists. Continue?", True): return
> self.save(line)
> def save(self, filename):
> ...
>
> I can monkey with printing messages and using raw_input(), but I'd like to know
> if there's a better way (such as something interacting with readline for
> text-entry-with-history-and-completion,

If you import readline, then any following uses of raw_input() will 
automatically use readline. You may want to swap out the history when you use 
get_string() or confirm() so they don't mess up the regular Cmd history, but the 
basic functionality should work out-of-box.

> or raw-character input for Y/N answers
> rather than the need to hit <enter>, making it feel more uniform),

I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for Y/N answers, too. 
It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some questions requiring an enter and 
some not. It can be unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jayronsoares at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 07:45:53 2011
From: jayronsoares at gmail.com (Jayron Soares)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:45:53 -0200
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Felipe,

I did, however I got this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 48, in <module>
    g, e = ministro_lei()
  File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 34, in ministro_lei
    for i in G.degree():
TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable

I could not understood what's going on, I've tried so many different
approaches to solve this problem, but unfortunately no success.

Cheers



2011/11/28 Felipe Vinturini <felipe.vinturini at gmail.com>

> Hi Jayron,
>
> Instead of using "Q" to loop over the result, use: "dbcursor".
>
> resp = dbcursor.fetchall()
>
> I hope it helps.
>
> Regards,
> Felipe.
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Jayron Soares <jayronsoares at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi guys!
>>
>> I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:
>>
>> http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325
>>
>> I get this error:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
>>     g, e = ministro_lei()
>>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in ministro_lei
>>     resp = Q.fetchall()
>> AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'
>>
>> Please any help ?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>> --
>> *" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*
>>
>> http://bucolick.tumblr.com
>> http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>


-- 
*" A Vida ? arte do Saber...Quem quiser saber tem que Estudar!"*

http://bucolick.tumblr.com
http://artecultural.wordpress.com/
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 07:57:16 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:57:16 +0100
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4ED3852C.6090102@sequans.com>

candide wrote:
> In which cases should we use the is() function ? The is() function 
> compares identity of objects rather than values so I was wondering in 
> which circumstances comparing identities of objects is really vital.
>
> Examining well reputated Python source code, I realize that is() 
> function is mainly used in the following set form :
>
> spam is None
>
> But how much "spam is None" is different from "spam == None" ?
>
>
>
> is() function makes comparaison of (abstract representation of) 
> adresses of objects in memory. Comparing addresses of objects is a low 
> level feature performed by low level langages such as C but seldom 
> needed in high level languages like Python, isn'it ?
I remember meeting a use case where testing identity is required, when 
you are searching for an instance containing a specific object:

class Someone:
    def __init__(self, name, car):
        self.name = name
        self.car = car

class Car:
    def __init__(self, brand):
        self.brand = brand
    def __eq__(self, other):
        return self.brand == other.brand

people = { 'bob':Someone('bob', Car('chrys')), 'cindy': Someone('cindy', 
Car('Volk')), 'carlos':Someone('carlos', Car('Volk'))}
aCar = people['carlos'].car
print "people owning a Volk car", [ people[ppl].name for ppl in people 
if people[ppl].car == Car('Volk')]
print "people owning Carlos's car", [ people[ppl].name for ppl in people 
if people[ppl].car is aCar]

people owning a Volk car ['carlos', 'cindy']
people owning Carlos's car ['carlos']

JM


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 08:14:27 2011
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 4:42 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the
> problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL
> problems that they have experienced and asking about.

> ... ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing
> things about as much as we ought to.

How about applying these claims to the OP?




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 08:20:44 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:20:44 +0100
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED38AAC.3090103@sequans.com>

Jayron Soares wrote:
> Hi Felipe,
>
> I did, however I got this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 48, in <module>
>     g, e = ministro_lei()
>   File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 34, in ministro_lei
>     for i in G.degree():
> TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable
>
> I could not understood what's going on, I've tried so many different 
> approaches to solve this problem, but unfortunately no success.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>  
> 2011/11/28 Felipe Vinturini <felipe.vinturini at gmail.com 
> <mailto:felipe.vinturini at gmail.com>>
>
>     Hi Jayron,
>
>     Instead of using "Q" to loop over the result, use: "dbcursor".
>
>     resp = dbcursor.fetchall()
>
>     I hope it helps.
>
>     Regards,
>     Felipe.
>
>     On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Jayron Soares
>     <jayronsoares at gmail.com <mailto:jayronsoares at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hi guys!
>
>         I'm stuck at a problem, when I run the follow code:
>
>         http://pastebin.com/4Gd9V325
>
>         I get this error:
>
>         Traceback (most recent call last):
>           File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 49, in <module>
>             g, e = ministro_lei()
>           File "/home/jayron/Downloads/grafos.py", line 24, in
>         ministro_lei
>             resp = Q.fetchall()
>         AttributeError: 'long' object has no attribute 'fetchall'
>
>         Please any help ?
>
>         cheers
>

Hello,

You are iterating on G.degree(), which is fine when it is a dictionary. 
However regarding DiGraph documentation:
"Returns :   
nd : dictionary, or number
A dictionary with nodes as keys and degree as values or a number if a 
single node is specified."

So you may get an integer and thus cannot iterate on it.

You could use
if type(G.degree()) is int:
    lista.append(G.degree())
else:
    for i in G.degree().values():
       lista.append(i)

I'm quite surprised that a distributed graph API uses such inconsistent 
interface. I guess you'll have to live with it.

JM


PS : Try to code & document in English, it's much better especially when 
asking for help on this list, mixing spanish and english has few 
benefits since you may bother both spanish and english ppl :o)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 08:47:51 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:47:51 +0100
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
In-Reply-To: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED39107.20109@sequans.com>

cassiope wrote:
> I've been trying to migrate some code to using the standard python
> logging classes/objects.  And they seem quite capable of doing what I
> need them to do.  Unfortunately there's a problem in my unit tests.
> It's fairly common to have to create quite a few entities in the
> course of a series of tests.  What appears to be happening is that the
> loggers don't get entirely eliminated, so that new invocations end up
> spewing output messages from each of the loggers that were started
> with this invocation of the python interpreter.
>
> I haven't found a function within the logging module that completely
> kills a given instance.  The removeHandler() function seems to leave a
> stdout/stderr output even if all the assigned handlers have been
> removed.  I've tried a few workarounds, such as increasing the level
> to an absurdly large level, which mostly kinda works, and killing the
> old entity before creating the new test version.
>
> There is probably something simple that I'm missing.  If you know what
> that is, please point me to that fine manual - I'd appreciate it.
> Thanks!
>
>     -f
>   
Loggers are static objects managed by the module itself. When you create 
one, it won't be removed until you leave the shell. Thas is way it is 
advise not to create thousands of loggers with different names.
That's the module design, nothing you can do about it.

It takes a little time to get used to it but the logging documentation 
has a lot of examples showing how to use to module.
Your main problem is that some of your test instances are configuring 
the loggers, they should not. Configuration should be done in the 'main' 
function *only*.

import logging, sys

class Test1:
    def __init__(self):
        self.logger = logging.getLogger(self.__class__.__name__) # 
create a new logger or reuse one if a logger with that name already exists
        self.logger.info('I am created')
        # adding a handler to the logger here would be a mistake, 
configuration is let to the user, in this case the program main entry point
        # objects raising log events should not care about how they are 
formated/displayed
class Test2:
    def __init__(self):
        self.logger = logging.getLogger(self.__class__.__name__)
        self.logger.info('I am created')

def main():
    # configure here the logger, usually the root logger
    root = logging.getLogger()
    root.handlers = [] # required if you don't want to exit the shell 
between 2 executions (not very wise)
    root.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    root.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler(sys.stdout))
    root.handlers[-1].setFormatter(logging.Formatter('%(name)s - 
%(levelname)s - %(message)s'))

    t1 = Test1()
    t2 = Test2()
    t3 = Test2()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

 > run test.py
Test1 - INFO - I am created
Test2 - INFO - I am created
Test2 - INFO - I am created


JM

PS : one way to cleanup a logger is to remove all its handlers, i.e. 
logger.handlers = [], but if you need to do this you may have done 
something wrong.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 09:04:26 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 14:04:26 GMT
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed394e9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:14:27 -0800, rusi wrote:

> On Nov 28, 4:42 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the
>> problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL
>> problems that they have experienced and asking about.
> 
>> ... ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing things about as
>> much as we ought to.
> 
> How about applying these claims to the OP?

The OP ranted that the existing packaging systems are an "all-out 
disgrace" (his words), without giving even a single example of a concrete 
problem, and unilaterally declared that this needs the personal attention 
of Guido van Rossum. There's a word for posts like that one: starts with 
T, ends in ROLL.

Presumably the OP believes that not only should he not have to solve his 
own problems with existing packaging systems, but he should not have to 
even describe those supposed problems.

The OP's only question was "when is python going to get a decent module 
distribution system???", to which the right answer is presumably "about a 
decade ago".

Decent does not necessarily mean perfect. If the OP decides to ask a 
sensible question about an actual problem, I'm sure he'll get a sensible 
answer. Perhaps not the answer he is hoping for, but an an answer.


-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Nov 28 09:18:54 2011
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:18:54 +0100
Subject: Cursor.fetchall
In-Reply-To: <4ED38AAC.3090103@sequans.com>
References: <CA+bWUm58+OC6_Pc-7Oo7-Lt2t4bk9v9L7vTeNWysS+3HHjs-Qw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJjQzgw0WYSNBXfG8bAMV4jTN_vgKzMxXWRf3x=UUVEvQgSWyg@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+bWUm5_-_5nUN8DYLi4CmPpJQo=2Y2PDd4xvysZ3Q+UrW3mbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ED38AAC.3090103@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3984E.700@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
> PS : Try to code & document in English, it's much better especially 
> when asking for help on this list, mixing spanish and english has few 
> benefits since you may bother both spanish and english ppl :o)
Actually it is english mixed with portuguese, sorry if I offended anyone 
:o( .

JM


From andreas.perstinger at gmx.net  Mon Nov 28 09:23:23 2011
From: andreas.perstinger at gmx.net (Andreas Perstinger)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:23:23 +0100
Subject: sick of distribute, setup, and all the rest...
In-Reply-To: <db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <jaqq8c$ang$1@reader1.panix.com>	<3dcbbd82-0f95-4e00-94ee-26d6d5dd1812@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<76f81679-4806-47dd-827e-7ff60a4e3ae9@d37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<5d3b3106-dc27-4aab-9e62-8290aac0e885@20g2000prp.googlegroups.com>	<4ed373a5$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<db4a6a54-b85e-4416-a27e-bff3ba719abd@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3995B.9040308@gmx.net>

On 2011-11-28 14:14, rusi wrote:
> On Nov 28, 4:42 pm, Steven D'Aprano<steve
> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info>  wrote:
>>  We don't chase people down on the street and lecture them about the
>>  problems we think they are having, we answer questions about ACTUAL
>>  problems that they have experienced and asking about.
>
>>  ... ever question gets an answer, and we're discussing
>>  things about as much as we ought to.
>
> How about applying these claims to the OP?
>

OP asked only one question (the rest was just ranting) and Steven 
answered it (IMHO in the right manner).

OP never mentioned specific problems or what's wrong with any of the 
distribution systems. So what answers are you expecting from such a post?

Bye, Andreas




From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 28 09:56:53 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:56:53 -0500
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3096.1322488085.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-6BA999.09565228112011@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3096.1322488085.27778.python-list at python.org>,
 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Loggers are static objects managed by the module itself.

For reasons I can't quite explain, that sentence makes me want to sing 
The Lumberjack Song.  "I'm a logger(*) and I'm OK..."

(*) Yes, I know that's not right.


From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 10:36:17 2011
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:36:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
Message-ID: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>

Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
fname1
fname2
fname3 and so on.

I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a generator is called for.

def fname_gen(stem):
    i = 0
    while True:
        i = i+1
        yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)

blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
boo = fname_gen('boo')

n = 3
for w in range(0,n):
    in_name = blarg.next()
    out_name = boo.next()


This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when you don't know 'n' until run-time?
thanks,
--Tim


From fpm at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 28 11:27:07 2011
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (cassiope)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:27:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Proper way to delete/kill a logger?
References: <3e7e156f-8197-4a2e-a490-b418b2e99a30@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3096.1322488085.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11b21871-0bf2-4957-a0a3-65d3c039632d@u1g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Chris and JM, I will explore how much work it's going to take
to change the various scripts to _always_ starting the logger from
main().
As further explanation - this code predates the logging module, and
many of the functions/classes had an optional argument for the home-
made
logger - and where the caller didn't provide it, it was locally
created.
The unit tests were carefully enough put together to provide almost
complete coverage, resulting in creating the logger possibly a dozen
or more times in the course of the tests.

So I appreciate what "doing it the right way" means, I was just hoping
not to have to go there, as I have a lot of code that uses the old
structures.  It makes it harder to justify moving to the "newer"
module.

I'll have to try the logger.handlers=[] approach, thanks.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 11:44:40 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 16:44:40 GMT
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
Message-ID: <4ed3ba77$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:36:17 -0800, Tim wrote:

> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
> fname1
> fname2
> fname3 and so on.
> 
> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a generator is
> called for.
> 
> def fname_gen(stem):
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i = i+1
>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
> 
> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
> boo = fname_gen('boo')
> 
> n = 3
> for w in range(0,n):
>     in_name = blarg.next()
>     out_name = boo.next()
> 
> 
> This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when you
> don't know 'n' until run-time? thanks,

Looks perfectly fine to me. In Python 2.6 onwards, I'd write next(blarg) 
rather than blarg.next(), and similarly for boo. In Python 3.x, you have 
to use next(blarg).

If I were to nit-pick, I'd write the last part as:

for _ in range(3):
    in_name = blarg.next()
    out_name = boo.next()

where _ is the traditional "don't care" name in Python.



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 28 11:54:48 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:54:48 +0100
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
Message-ID: <jb0ecp$krh$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tim wrote:

> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
> fname1
> fname2
> fname3 and so on.
> 
> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a generator is
> called for.
> 
> def fname_gen(stem):
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i = i+1
>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
> 
> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
> boo = fname_gen('boo')
> 
> n = 3
> for w in range(0,n):
>     in_name = blarg.next()
>     out_name = boo.next()
> 
> 
> This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when you
> don't know 'n' until run-time? thanks,

As a fan of the itertools module I would spell it (untested)

from itertools import count, islice, izip

def fname_gen(stem):
    return ("%s%d" % (stem, i) for i in count(1))
# ...
for in_name, out_name in islice(izip(blarg, boo), n):
   #...

but your way is perfectly OK.



From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 28 12:04:25 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 17:04:25 GMT
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
	<4ed3ba77$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <9jht8pFrs3U1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-28, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:36:17 -0800, Tim wrote:
>> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like this:
>> fname1
>> fname2
>> fname3 and so on.
>> 
>> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a
>> generator is called for.
>> 
>> def fname_gen(stem):
>>     i = 0
>>     while True:
>>         i = i+1
>>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
>> 
>> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
>> boo = fname_gen('boo')

I don't see anything wrong with that. I've written similar code
in terms of itertools.count, myself. If I may make a suggestion,
it would be nice to zero-pad the number to achieve
lexicographical ordering of filenames. However, if you really
have no idea of the magnitude you might need that won't work. The
following assumes you'll need less than 1000.

counter = itertools.count()
...
with open("%03d" % counter.next(), "w") as the_next_file:
  ...

My Python < 3.0 is rusty, so sorry if I messed that up.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 12:21:37 2011
From: !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com (Eduardo Alvarez)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:21:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
Message-ID: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>

Hello, everyone,

I'm in the process of learning how to use the mailbox module with python
3.2. I've noticed the following seemingly inconsistent behavior:

if I call a Maildir object directly, the module works perfectly. I can,
for example, call

mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir").items()

and get the expected list of (key,Message) pairs.

however, if I do the following:

b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
b.items()

I get an empty list. 

I don't understand why this is so, specially since the last example in
the documentation shows a reference to a Maildir object being created.
Why does this happen?

yours,

--
Eduardo Alvarez


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 12:29:45 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:29:45 +1100
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
In-Reply-To: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
References: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqG21pfTSLPLj+2pt6mKyEwZ3jii3pTpPdBKqFadX2ojw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 4:21 AM, Eduardo Alvarez
<!nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com> wrote:
> if I call a Maildir object directly, the module works perfectly. I can,
> for example, call
>
> mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir").items()
>
> and get the expected list of (key,Message) pairs.
>
> however, if I do the following:
>
> b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
> b.items()
>
> I get an empty list.

They ought to be equivalent. Can you post your whole code? Maybe
there's some other difference.

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 28 12:50:17 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:50:17 +0100
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
References: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
Message-ID: <jb0hkn$c6g$1@dough.gmane.org>

Eduardo Alvarez wrote:

> however, if I do the following:
> 
> b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
> b.items()
> 
> I get an empty list.
> 
> I don't understand why this is so, specially since the last example in
> the documentation shows a reference to a Maildir object being created.
> Why does this happen?

Could this be

http://bugs.python.org/issue13254

?



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Nov 28 12:58:50 2011
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:58:50 -0500
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
Message-ID: <jb0i4o$a3r$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Tim wrote:

> Hi, I need to generate a list of file names that increment, like 
this:
> fname1
> fname2
> fname3 and so on.
> 
> I don't know how many I'll need until runtime so I figure a 
generator is
> called for.
> 
> def fname_gen(stem):
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i = i+1
>         yield '%s%d' % (stem,i)
> 
> blarg = fname_gen('blarg')
> boo = fname_gen('boo')
> 
> n = 3
> for w in range(0,n):
>     in_name = blarg.next()
>     out_name = boo.next()
> 
> 
> This works, but is it the 'normal' way to accomplish the task when 
you
> don't know 'n' until run-time? thanks,

It's kind of overkill in the toy demo example, but if the main loop is 
a little more abstract, e.g.

for task in task_supplier():
    in_name = blarg.next()
    out_name = boo.next()
    handle_task (task, in_name, out_name)

then it's obviously a good thing.

One quibble (that Peter Otten also suggested): if your business rules 
expect that files blarg25 and boo25 (for example) work together, then 
you'd be better off generating them together as a pair in a single 
generator call.  As it is, there's a chance of the blarg and boo 
generators getting out of step and supplying mismatched names.

	Mel.



From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 13:03:38 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:03:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <61aacaf4-4953-4e6d-8f5e-2c999a9e2b63@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 27, 6:55?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:
> > Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> > out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> > go away and many implementations have done just that.
>
> Tabs have every theoretical advantage and only one practical
> disadvantage: the common toolsets used by Unix programmers are crap in
> their handling of tabs, and instead of fixing the toolsets, they blame
> the tabs.
>
> The use of spaces as indentation is a clear case of a technically worse
> solution winning over a better solution.
>
> > I have been
> > seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> > such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> > spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).
>
> Why on earth should your language dictate the width of an indentation? I
> can understand that you might care that indents are consistent within a
> single source code unit (a file?), but anything more than that is just
> obnoxious.
>
> > I have always found the standard library for Python to be disjoint. That
> > can be really beneficial where it keeps the learning curve down and the
> > size of the standard modules down. At the same time, it means
> > re-learning whenever you use a new module.
>
> I know what disjoint means, but I don't understand what you think it
> means for a software library to be disjoint. I don't understand the rest
> of the paragraph.
>
> > My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> > creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
>
> > [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
>
> Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
>
> Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
>
> Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> what looks like a float 0.10?
>
> What is "yield return"?
>
> > Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> > a special keyword.
>
> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> > I also distinguish between initialization and
> > assignment via the let keyword.
>
> What does this mean? I can guess, but I might guess wrong.
>
> > Also, non-locals do not need to be
> > defined explicitly, since the scoping rules in Unit are far more "anal".
>
> What does this mean? I can't even guess what you consider more anal
> scoping rules.
>
> > In reality though, it takes a certain level of arrogance to assume that
> > any language will turn out without bumps. It is like I was told in
> > college long ago, "Only the smallest programs are bug free." I think the
> > same thing could be said for a language. The only language without flaws
> > would be so small that it would be useless.
>
> I'm pretty sure that being so small that it is useless would count as a
> flaw.
>
> What does it mean to say that a language is "small"?
>
> A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few
> instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell,
> branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed,
> anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine: a Turing Machine
> can do anything you can do in C, Lisp, Fortran, Python, Java... and very
> probably anything you can (mentally) do, full stop. So what does that
> mean about "small" languages?
>
> On the other hand, take Epigram, a functional programming language:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_(programming_language)
>
> It is *less* powerful than a Turing Machine, despite being far more
> complex. Similarly languages like regular expressions, finite automata
> and context-free grammers are more complex, "bigger", possibly with
> dozens or hundreds of instructions, and yet less powerful. Likewise for
> spreadsheets without cycles.
>
> Forth is much smaller than Java, but I would say that Forth is much, much
> more powerful in some sense than Java. You could write a Java compiler in
> Forth more easily than you could write a Forth compiler in Java.
>
> --
> Steven
>
>

Yes. I was mostly rambling. More explanation would have meant more
typing.

Languages that use type inference heavily typically find unique ways
of indicating literals, including numbers and collections. In Unit,
[||] indicates fixed length arrays, [] is for dynamic arrays, {} is
for sets and unordered dictionaries (at least one value is needed). A
frozen set might be represented with a {||} in the future. I stole the
syntax from F#. Numbers have a trailing letter indicating their types:
signed byte (y), short (s), long (l), float (f), fixed (m), arbitrary
precision (i), rational (r) and imaginary (j). Unsigned versions have
a u before the letter (uy).

Also, .. is the range operator in Unit. 0..10 means "0 through 10" and
0.1 means a floating point number (I missed a dot). 0..10..2 means 0,
2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Saves me from needing a range function, like Python.
Quite a few functional languages support that syntax.


From !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 13:10:47 2011
From: !nospam!astrochelonian at gmail.com (Eduardo Alvarez)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:10:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mailbox module difficulties
References: <slrnjd7g61.7m3.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>
	<mailman.3101.1322502631.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnjd7j27.7q9.!nospam!astrochelonian@daidalos.cgb.cl>

On 2011-11-28, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Eduardo Alvarez wrote:
>
>> however, if I do the following:
>> 
>> b = mailbox.Maildir("~/Maildir")
>> b.items()
>> 
>> I get an empty list.
>> 
>> I don't understand why this is so, specially since the last example in
>> the documentation shows a reference to a Maildir object being created.
>> Why does this happen?
>
> Could this be
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue13254
>
> ?

Peter and Chris,

This is exactly it. I guess the version in my linux distribution is not
patched. I'll let the maintainer know, thank you!

Yours,

--
Eduardo Alvarez


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Nov 28 13:20:40 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:20:40 +0100
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON
	to XML)
In-Reply-To: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <jb0jdo$ssa$1@dough.gmane.org>

Adam Funk, 25.11.2011 14:50:
> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
>
> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')

It doesn't make sense to use codecs.open() with a "b" mode.


> big_json = json.load(input_source)

You shouldn't decode the input before passing it into json.load(), just 
open the file in binary mode. Serialised JSON is defined as being UTF-8 
encoded (or BOM-prefixed), not decoded Unicode.


> input_source.close()

In case of a failure, the file will not be closed safely. All in all, use 
this instead:

     with open(input_file, 'rb') as f:
         big_json = json.load(f)


> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
> of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
> rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary)

If the name "big_json" is supposed to hint at a large set of data, you may 
want to use something other than minidom. Take a look at the 
xml.etree.cElementTree module instead, which is substantially more memory 
efficient.


> and I save the document:
>
> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
> doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
> xml_file.close()

Same mistakes as above. Especially the double encoding is both unnecessary 
and likely to fail. This is also most likely the source of your problems.


> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>
> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
> PCDATA invalid Char value 31

This strongly hints at a broken encoding, which can easily be triggered by 
your erroneous encode-and-encode cycles above.

Also, the kind of problem you present here makes it pretty clear that you 
are using Python 2.x. In Python 3, you'd get the appropriate exceptions 
when trying to write binary data to a Unicode file.

Stefan



From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:20:22 2011
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: correct usage of a generator?
In-Reply-To: <jb0i4o$a3r$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9312767.592.1322494577357.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbhk3>
	<jb0i4o$a3r$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <6572253.26.1322508022441.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqf20>

thanks everyone. I thought blarg.next() looked a little strange--I'm just learning generators now and I'm glad too see that next(blarg) is the way to go.

The example really was just a toy or I would use an iterator. I do need the two (well, the several) generators to not be coupled together so they increment independently. I'll keep the zero-padding advice in mind--I didn't think of that one.

what a great group this is. 
thanks again!
--Tim


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:22:09 2011
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:22:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 26, 3:01?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:20:36 +0100, candide wrote:
>>SNIP<<
>
> That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing
> for None, use of `is` should be rare.
>
> --
> Steven

With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
construct should be rare.  All constructs should be used
*appropriately*.

While in general a particular use of a Python construct may be rare,
if the programmer is involved deeply with that rare use, then it is
NOT rare to him/her.  Thus, for a particular programmer, use of 'is'
may be quite frequent because the program they're working on requires
knowledge of object identity.

The same goes for global variables, by the way.  While it's easy to
shoot yourself in the foot with global variables, that doesn't lead to
never-use-them.  It leads to use-them-appropriately-and-carefully.

Sorry, you plucked a string of mine.  One does not throw a tool out of
your tool box because it might be dangerous.  Table saws are
incredibly dangerous, but in the hands of a skilled operator can be
competently and safely used to produce beautiful woodwork.  To say
*never* use a table saw because it's dangerous is silly.

Language constructs are put there intentionally.  Advice that they be
used *rarely* or *never* should *never* be given ((chuckle)).  Just
learn what they are, learn how they work, learn what the consequences
of misuse can be (loss of a hand, in the case of a table saw), and use
them confidently when the circumstances make them the best choice of
tool to solve your problem.

To make a long comment short (too late!!) learn the differences
between 'is' and ==, and use them appropriately.  When I was learning
Python, I found the two books by Mark Lutz to be filled with
information of such things as these.

D


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:24:10 2011
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Return of an old friend
References: <f09299d1-fc05-4b33-aaed-4f8e7cbf86b8@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAB4yi1Omw-jk4w_ZufLCr5w+kt1VtGSEAVDy-t=k+yz-jj2xzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3033.1322216028.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d9b87a90-76f9-43f2-a354-be02bc6e532a@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 25, 2:13?am, Noah Hall <enali... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joiner <anacro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I haven't heard of you before, but feel like I've missed out on something.
>
> > Do you (or someone else) care to link to some of your more contentious work?
>
> Ignore him, he's a troll with an unjustly inflated ego.

((laugh)) Well, that didn't take long.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 14:32:59 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm_BWCtYhiKg9r8BjrzKR=vs0-GPapzTHBRMSiyJXsziA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
>> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
>>
>> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
>
> Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
>
> Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
>
> Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> what looks like a float 0.10?
>
> What is "yield return"?

I would assume that "yield return" is borrowed from C#, where it is
basically equivalent to Python's yield statement.  The advantage of
using two keywords like that is that you can compare the statements
"yield return foo" and "yield break", which is a bit clearer than
comparing the equivalent "yield foo" and "return".

Having to type out "yield return" in every comprehension seems a bit
painful to me, but I can understand the approach: what is shown above
is a full generator, not a single "generator expression" like we use
in Python, so the statement keywords can't be omitted.  It's trading
off convenience for expressiveness (a bad trade-off IMO -- complex
generators should be named, not anonymous).

>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
>> a special keyword.
>
> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.

I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why does Python
require a special keyword?  def is only used in a statement context,
and lambda is only used in an expression context.  Why not use the
same keyword for both?  I think the answer is historical:  def came
first, and when anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to
use the keyword "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being
defined.

Cheers,
Ian


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 15:03:13 2011
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:03:13 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3006.1322144862.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>
	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>
	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3006.1322144862.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ED3E901.30306@yahoo.com>

On 11/24/2011 9:27 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
...
> Several ways to speed up code.
>
> 1) use language features to best advantage
> 2) use 3rd party libraries that do certain things well
> 3) use best algorithms, subject to #1 and #2
> 4) have someone else review the code (perhaps on the list, perhaps
> within your own organization)
> 5) measure (eg. profile it)
> 6) use optimizing tools, such as pypy or Cython.
> 7) rewrite parts of it in another language
> 8) get a faster processor
> 9) rewrite it all in another language
>
> It takes experience to choose between these, and each project is
> different. But even the most experienced developers will frequently
> guess entirely wrong where the bottleneck is, which is why you measure
> if you care.

I agree that measuring (profiling) is the most critical.

As you say, even the most experienced programmers can guess wrong.  The 
first time I used a profiler a couple of decades ago I was egotistical 
enough to wonder how this thing could help me.  After all, I wrote the 
code.  I knew what it did.  The profiler wasn't going to tell me 
anything I didn't know.

I learned  a little humility after reading the profiler output.  The 
program was spending most of its time in a place that I never dreamed 
was a problem, and a 10 minute fix cut run times in half.

In that particular case there wasn't even a design problem, it was just 
a procedure call inside a tight loop that executed far more often than I 
imagined and could be replaced with a few lines of inline code.

I think the rest of your list is excellent too.

     Alan


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 28 15:05:00 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:05:00 -0800
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
In-Reply-To: <c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED3E96C.9040701@stoneleaf.us>

Den wrote:
> With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> construct should be rare.  All constructs should be used
> *appropriately*.

+1

~Ethan~


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 28 15:08:23 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:08:23 -0500
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/28/2011 6:45 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> I'm happily using the ast module to analyze some code,
> but my scripts need also to run unfortunately on python 2.5
>
> The _ast was there already, but the ast helpers not yet.
> Is it ok if I just copy over the source from the ast helpers in my code
> base

That is the standard way of backporting features of later versions.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 28 15:20:36 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 20:20:36 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-28, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for
> creating functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why
> does Python require a special keyword?  def is only used in a
> statement context, and lambda is only used in an expression
> context.  Why not use the same keyword for both?  I think the
> answer is historical:  def came first, and when anonymous
> functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.

I've always held with the "anti-functional style conspiracy"
interpretation of Python's lambda expressions. They were added
but grudgingingly, made weak on purpose to discourage their use.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
  "This room is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan.  Go
ahead and dauntlessly!  Make rapid progres!"
  --Ghosts 'n Goblins


From plsullivan1 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 15:24:32 2011
From: plsullivan1 at gmail.com (plsullivan1 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:24:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
Message-ID: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>

I need for GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit to be Citylimit. The "cadastral" and "citylimit" will be different as I readlines from a list. In other words, the above could be GIS.GIS.Restricted\GIS.GIS.Pipeline and I would need Pipeline.

s = GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit
NeededValue = Citylimit

Thanks.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Nov 28 15:40:01 2011
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:40:01 +1300
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>

Travis Parks wrote:
> I thinking tabs are
> out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs
> would go away

The situation with make is a bit different, because it
*requires* tabs in certain places -- spaces won't do.
Python lets you choose which to use as long as you don't
mix them up, and I like it that way.

> let Parse = public static method (value: String)
> throws(FormatException UnderflowException OverflowException)

Checked exceptions? I fear you're repeating a huge mistake
going down that route...

-- 
Greg


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Nov 28 15:45:55 2011
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:45:55 -0800
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
Message-ID: <4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>

plsullivan1 at gmail.com wrote:
> s = GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit
> NeededValue = Citylimit

NeededValue = s.rsplit('.', 1)[1]

~Ethan~


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Nov 28 15:48:34 2011
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:48:34 +1300
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <9jiad5Fhr9U1@mid.individual.net>

Neil Cerutti wrote:

> I've always held with the "anti-functional style conspiracy"
> interpretation of Python's lambda expressions. They were added
> but grudgingingly, made weak on purpose to discourage their use.

Seems to me that Python's lambdas are about as powerful
as they can be given the statement/expression distinction.
No conspiracy is needed, just an understandable desire on
Guido's part not to do violence to the overall syntactic
style of the language.

-- 
Greg


From alemumihretu at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 15:52:13 2011
From: alemumihretu at gmail.com (Alemu mihretu)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:52:13 -0700
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm_BWCtYhiKg9r8BjrzKR=vs0-GPapzTHBRMSiyJXsziA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidm_BWCtYhiKg9r8BjrzKR=vs0-GPapzTHBRMSiyJXsziA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJ7cXfq+TCxidGt8LrfRRqMT+-ixqdL=gxgBAVUggSc90O=nA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

My python runs and crashes after another run. I am getting errors like
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library

program c:\Python27\pythonw.exe

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an usuak way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

Any Idea ?

my plot also does not work ? frustrating


On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> >> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
> >>
> >> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
> >
> > Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
> >
> > Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
> >
> > Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> > what looks like a float 0.10?
> >
> > What is "yield return"?
>
> I would assume that "yield return" is borrowed from C#, where it is
> basically equivalent to Python's yield statement.  The advantage of
> using two keywords like that is that you can compare the statements
> "yield return foo" and "yield break", which is a bit clearer than
> comparing the equivalent "yield foo" and "return".
>
> Having to type out "yield return" in every comprehension seems a bit
> painful to me, but I can understand the approach: what is shown above
> is a full generator, not a single "generator expression" like we use
> in Python, so the statement keywords can't be omitted.  It's trading
> off convenience for expressiveness (a bad trade-off IMO -- complex
> generators should be named, not anonymous).
>
> >> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> >> a special keyword.
> >
> > That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> > Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why does Python
> require a special keyword?  def is only used in a statement context,
> and lambda is only used in an expression context.  Why not use the
> same keyword for both?  I think the answer is historical:  def came
> first, and when anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to
> use the keyword "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being
> defined.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From arnodel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:08:29 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:08:29 +0000
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
	<4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1ZiF5njkGfsp77ieOv-_urrfoJOfNMTb7kUKbduaN6KvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 28 November 2011 20:45, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> plsullivan1 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> s = GIS.GIS.Cadastral\GIS.GIS.Citylimit
>> NeededValue = Citylimit
>
> NeededValue = s.rsplit('.', 1)[1]

Also:

>>> s[s.rfind(".") + 1:]
'Citylimit'
>>> s.rpartition(".")[2]
'Citylimit'

-- 
Arnaud


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Nov 28 16:11:06 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 21:11:06 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<9ji8okFs94U2@mid.individual.net> <9jiad5Fhr9U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <9jibnaFrjeU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-28, Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> I've always held with the "anti-functional style conspiracy"
>> interpretation of Python's lambda expressions. They were added
>> but grudgingingly, made weak on purpose to discourage their
>> use.
>
> Seems to me that Python's lambdas are about as powerful as they
> can be given the statement/expression distinction. No
> conspiracy is needed, just an understandable desire on Guido's
> part not to do violence to the overall syntactic style of the
> language.

It's true. Most conspiracy theories do fall apart once facts and
clear thinking are applied. But we love them anyway. ;)

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From plsullivan1 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:13:44 2011
From: plsullivan1 at gmail.com (plsullivan1 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:13:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
	<4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28260178.222.1322514824753.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqi26>

Thanks!


From plsullivan1 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:13:44 2011
From: plsullivan1 at gmail.com (plsullivan1 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:13:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remove characters before last occurance of "."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <9707115.134.1322511872642.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqeu24>
	<4ED3F303.8020307@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.3108.1322514511.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28260178.222.1322514824753.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqi26>

Thanks!


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:29:06 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 3:40?pm, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Travis Parks wrote:
> > I thinking tabs are
> > out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs
> > would go away
>
> The situation with make is a bit different, because it
> *requires* tabs in certain places -- spaces won't do.
> Python lets you choose which to use as long as you don't
> mix them up, and I like it that way.
>
> > let Parse = public static method (value: String)
> > throws(FormatException UnderflowException OverflowException)
>
> Checked exceptions? I fear you're repeating a huge mistake
> going down that route...
>
> --
> Greg
>
>

Exception handling is one of those subjects few understand and fewer
can implement properly in modern code. Languages that don't support
exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has
been a massive annoyance. Perhaps something to provide or just shut
off via a command line parameter. What indications have there been
that this has been a flaw? I can see it alienating a large group of up-
and-coming developers.


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:34:07 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:34:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <16c6a453-22de-4dc3-bc99-16a45200fca2@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 2:32?pm, Ian Kelly <ian.g.ke... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>
> <steve+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >> My language combines generators and collection initializers, instead of
> >> creating a whole new syntax for comprehensions.
>
> >> [| for i in 0..10: for j in 0.10: yield return i * j |]
>
> > Are we supposed to intuit what that means?
>
> > Is | a token, or are the delimiters [| and |] ?
>
> > Is there a difference between iterating over 0..10 and iterating over
> > what looks like a float 0.10?
>
> > What is "yield return"?
>
> I would assume that "yield return" is borrowed from C#, where it is
> basically equivalent to Python's yield statement. ?The advantage of
> using two keywords like that is that you can compare the statements
> "yield return foo" and "yield break", which is a bit clearer than
> comparing the equivalent "yield foo" and "return".
>
> Having to type out "yield return" in every comprehension seems a bit
> painful to me, but I can understand the approach: what is shown above
> is a full generator, not a single "generator expression" like we use
> in Python, so the statement keywords can't be omitted. ?It's trading
> off convenience for expressiveness (a bad trade-off IMO -- complex
> generators should be named, not anonymous).
>
> >> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need for
> >> a special keyword.
>
> > That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> > Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> functions, which is lambda-style. ?In any case, why does Python
> require a special keyword? ?def is only used in a statement context,
> and lambda is only used in an expression context. ?Why not use the
> same keyword for both? ?I think the answer is historical: ?def came
> first, and when anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to
> use the keyword "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being
> defined.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>
>

Most languages I have worked with have a "lambda" syntax and a
function syntax. It has always been a historical artifact. Languages
start out avoiding functional features and then eventually adopt them.
It seems that eventually, convenient high-order functions become a
must-have (most standard algorithm packages). It is a conflict between
old C-style programming and the need for functional code. As soon as
functions can be assigned to variables, the code starts looking oddly
like JavaScript.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:57:46 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:57:46 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
	<a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpFrSto5pXT1qk0y5iervKCtFav=6Q0WPAC-58R3KUQHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Languages that don't support
> exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
> Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
> had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has
> been a massive annoyance.

In Java, it mainly feels like syntactic salt. There's still a class of
RuntimeExceptions that aren't listed in the signature, so you still
have to concern yourself with the possibility that unexpected
exceptions will propagate; and you're forced to decorate every method
with the list of what it might propagate up, other than that.

It's like const-decorating a series of functions in C++, only far less
consequential and requiring far more typing.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 17:24:46 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 22:24:46 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
[...]
>>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
>>> for a special keyword.
>>
>> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
>> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
> 
> I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> functions, which is lambda-style.  In any case, why does Python require
> a special keyword?  def is only used in a statement context, and lambda
> is only used in an expression context.  Why not use the same keyword for
> both?

Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and 
stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact 
that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def 
also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require 
special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes 
without a name. That's ugly.

def name(args): block  # okay

funcs = [def args: expr,  # okay so far
         def name(args): expr,  # not okay
         def: expr,  # okay
         ]

def: expr  # also okay

def: expr
    expr  # but not okay

x = def x: expr  # okay
x = def x(x): expr  # not okay

Using the same keyword for named and unnamed functions is, in my opinion, 
one of those foolish consistencies we are warned about. When deciding on 
syntax, the difference between anonymous and named functions are more 
significant than their similarities.


> I think the answer is historical:  def came first, and when
> anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.

That reasoning still applies even if they were added simultaneously.

Lambda is pretty old: it certainly exists in Python 1.5 and almost 
certainly in 1.4. While it doesn't exist as a keyword in Python 0.9.1, 
there is a module called "lambda" with a function "lambda" that uses more 
or less the same syntax. Instead of lambda x: x+1, you would instead 
write lambda("x", "x+1"). So the idea of including anonymous functions 
was around in Python circles before the syntax was locked in.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 17:48:24 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:48:24 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHkZGN0p9ywspqNuQgDKb1K9QbMEc-qfTZGCXiNkZTvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and
> stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact
> that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def
> also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require
> special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes
> without a name. That's ugly.
>

All you need to do is define that a block of code is an object (and
thus suitable material for an expression), and you have easy
commonality.

fn = def(args):
    block
    of
    code

Now def is an expression that takes an optional name (omitted in the
above), an arg list, and a block of code... and there's minimal
difference between named and anonymous functions. (If it's given a
name, then it sets __name__ and also binds to that name, being
convenient for the common case. The above code is a silly way to do
almost the default.)

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Nov 28 17:57:47 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Nov 2011 22:57:47 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
	<a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed411eb$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:06 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:

> Exception handling is one of those subjects few understand and fewer can
> implement properly in modern code. Languages that don't support
> exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
> Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
> had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has been
> a massive annoyance. Perhaps something to provide or just shut off via a
> command line parameter. What indications have there been that this has
> been a flaw? I can see it alienating a large group of up- and-coming
> developers.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp05254/index.html

Note also that Bruce Eckel repeats a rumour that checked exceptions were 
*literally* an experiment snuck into the Java language while James 
Gosling was away on holiday.

http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/UnCheckedExceptionComments

Even if that is not true, checked exceptions are a feature that *in 
practice* seems to lead to poor exception handling and cruft needed only 
to satisfy the compiler:

http://www.alittlemadness.com/2008/03/12/checked-exceptions-failed-experiment/#comment-219143

and other annoyances. It's main appeal, it seems to me, is to give a 
false sense of security to Java developers who fail to realise that under 
certain circumstances Java will raise certain checked exceptions *even if 
they are not declared*. E.g. null pointer exceptions.

See also:

http://java.dzone.com/articles/checked-exceptions-i-love-you

and note especially the comment from the coder who says that he simply 
declares his functions to throw Exception (the most generic checked 
exception), thus defeating the whole point of checked exceptions.


-- 
Steven


From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 19:54:08 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 27, 6:55?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:
> > Personally, I find a lot of good things in Python. I thinking tabs are
> > out-of-date. Even the MAKE community wishes that the need for tabs would
> > go away and many implementations have done just that.
>
> Tabs have every theoretical advantage and only one practical
> disadvantage: the common toolsets used by Unix programmers are crap in
> their handling of tabs, and instead of fixing the toolsets, they blame
> the tabs.
>
> The use of spaces as indentation is a clear case of a technically worse
> solution winning over a better solution.
>
> > I have been
> > seriously debating about whether to force a specific number of spaces,
> > such as the classic 4, but I am not sure yet. Some times, 2 or even 8
> > spaces is appropriate (although I'm not sure when).
>
> Why on earth should your language dictate the width of an indentation? I
> can understand that you might care that indents are consistent within a
> single source code unit (a file?), but anything more than that is just
> obnoxious.
>

I do not understand why the interpreter preprocesses each logical line
of source code using something as simple as this:

def reindent( line, spaces_per_tab=os.spaces_per_tab):

    index = 0  # index into line of text
    indent = 0 # increase 1 when in next tab column
    spaces = 0 # index into current column

    for c in line:
        if c == ' ':
            spaces +=1
            if spaces >= spaces_per_tab:
                indent += 1
                spaces = 0
        if c == '\t':   # jump to next tab column
            indent += 1
            spaces = 0
        if c <> ' ' and c <> '\t':
            break
        index += 1
    rest_of_line = line[index:]
    new_indent = ' ' * indent * spaces_per_tab + ' ' * spaces
    newline = new_indent + rest_of_line

    return newline

or even some regex equivelent.

That function would need to be run on each line of source code, after
processing the line continuation character and single/double/triple
quote pairs are processed but before the code block tokenizer (INDENT/
DEDENT) if possible. Unless some of you expert parser/compiler writers
know fancier tricks.

To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.


From devplayer at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 19:59:42 2011
From: devplayer at gmail.com (DevPlayer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:59:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d305c62f-09cb-4695-9378-4f522daaacfd@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>

> I do not understand why the interpreter preprocesses each logical line
> of source code using something as simple as this:


correction:

I do not understand why the interpreter - does not- preprocess each
logical line
of source code using something as simple as this:


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 20:49:49 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:49:49 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq4YABb-5XU7FkAYPFTJErHPPY2TyaVxNNFsn_zNK77ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, DevPlayer <devplayer at gmail.com> wrote:
> To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
> indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
> spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
> expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.

The trouble with having a language declaration that "a tab is
equivalent to X spaces" is that there's no consensus as to what X
should be. Historically X has always been 8, and quite a few programs
still assume this. I personally like 4. Some keep things narrow with
2. You can even go 1 - a strict substitution of \t with \x20. Once you
declare it in your language, you immediately break everyone who uses
anything different.

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:42:12 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 5:24?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> > <steve+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> [...]
> >>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
> >>> for a special keyword.
>
> >> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> >> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> > I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> > functions, which is lambda-style. ?In any case, why does Python require
> > a special keyword? ?def is only used in a statement context, and lambda
> > is only used in an expression context. ?Why not use the same keyword for
> > both?
>
> Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and
> stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact
> that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def
> also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require
> special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes
> without a name. That's ugly.
>
> def name(args): block ?# okay
>
> funcs = [def args: expr, ?# okay so far
> ? ? ? ? ?def name(args): expr, ?# not okay
> ? ? ? ? ?def: expr, ?# okay
> ? ? ? ? ?]
>
> def: expr ?# also okay
>
> def: expr
> ? ? expr ?# but not okay
>
> x = def x: expr ?# okay
> x = def x(x): expr ?# not okay
>
> Using the same keyword for named and unnamed functions is, in my opinion,
> one of those foolish consistencies we are warned about. When deciding on
> syntax, the difference between anonymous and named functions are more
> significant than their similarities.

A good example I have run into is recursion. When a local function
calls itself, the name of the function may not be part of scope (non-
local). Languages that support tail-end recursion optimization can't
optimize. In order to support this, a function in Unit will have
access to its own name and type. In other words, special scoping rules
are in place in Unit to allow treating a function as an expression.

>
> > I think the answer is historical: ?def came first, and when
> > anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> > "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.
>
> That reasoning still applies even if they were added simultaneously.
>
> Lambda is pretty old: it certainly exists in Python 1.5 and almost
> certainly in 1.4. While it doesn't exist as a keyword in Python 0.9.1,
> there is a module called "lambda" with a function "lambda" that uses more
> or less the same syntax. Instead of lambda x: x+1, you would instead
> write lambda("x", "x+1"). So the idea of including anonymous functions
> was around in Python circles before the syntax was locked in.

I find that interesting. I also find it interesting that the common
functional methods (all, any, map, filter) are basically built into
Python core language. That is unusual for most imperative programming
languages early-on.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:57:32 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:57:32 +1100
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmquEb6fGYHh0057n9JfwvAX2-ycFeUhgsECmDrbCOBScQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> A good example I have run into is recursion. When a local function
> calls itself, the name of the function may not be part of scope (non-
> local). Languages that support tail-end recursion optimization can't
> optimize. In order to support this, a function in Unit will have
> access to its own name and type. In other words, special scoping rules
> are in place in Unit to allow treating a function as an expression.

I'm inclined toward an alternative: explicit recursion. Either a
different syntax, or a special-case on the use of the function's own
name, but whichever syntax you use, it compiles in a "recurse" opcode.
That way, if name bindings change, it's still going to recurse -
something few languages guarantee, and therefore few languages can
optimize.

ChrisA


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:57:54 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:57:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<9ji9t4FdphU1@mid.individual.net>
	<a3cc3cc3-ff2c-4b0d-a3cd-a24bdfd1c823@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed411eb$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <c486f6ce-cedd-47bc-8a90-b12259a5cdcb@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 5:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:06 -0800, Travis Parks wrote:
> > Exception handling is one of those subjects few understand and fewer can
> > implement properly in modern code. Languages that don't support
> > exceptions as part of their signature lead to capturing generic
> > Exception all throughout code. It is one of those features I wish .NET
> > had. At the same time, with my limited experience with Java, it has been
> > a massive annoyance. Perhaps something to provide or just shut off via a
> > command line parameter. What indications have there been that this has
> > been a flaw? I can see it alienating a large group of up- and-coming
> > developers.
>
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp05254/index.html
>
> Note also that Bruce Eckel repeats a rumour that checked exceptions were
> *literally* an experiment snuck into the Java language while James
> Gosling was away on holiday.
>
> http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/UnCheckedExceptionComments
>
> Even if that is not true, checked exceptions are a feature that *in
> practice* seems to lead to poor exception handling and cruft needed only
> to satisfy the compiler:
>
> http://www.alittlemadness.com/2008/03/12/checked-exceptions-failed-ex...
>
> and other annoyances. It's main appeal, it seems to me, is to give a
> false sense of security to Java developers who fail to realise that under
> certain circumstances Java will raise certain checked exceptions *even if
> they are not declared*. E.g. null pointer exceptions.
>
> See also:
>
> http://java.dzone.com/articles/checked-exceptions-i-love-you
>
> and note especially the comment from the coder who says that he simply
> declares his functions to throw Exception (the most generic checked
> exception), thus defeating the whole point of checked exceptions.
>
> --
> Steven

I think all of the examples you listed referred specifically to most
programmers finding ways around the annoyance. I have heard about
throwing generic Exception or inheriting all custom exception types
from RuntimeException. I did this quite often myself.

In general, unchecked exceptions shouldn't be caught. They occur
because of bad code and insufficient testing. Checked exceptions occur
because of downed databases, missing files, network problems - things
that may become available later without code changes.

One day, I went through about 10,000 lines of code and moved argument
checking code outside of try blocks because I realized I was handling
some of them by accident. Here is the program: if me == idiot: exit().

People don't think about this, but the exceptions thrown by a module
are part of that module's interface. Being able to make sure only what
you expect to come out is important. Unlike Java, Unit requires you to
opt in to using throws clauses. If you don't list one, one is
generated for you automatically. The benefit: you can see what a
function throws and protect yourself without all the babysitting.

A lack of exception handling is big problem in .NET. I have had
libraries from big names including Novell and Oracle throw
NullReferenceExceptions because _they_ didn't know what would happen
in cases where a DLL is missing or a dependency isn't installed. They
could have done better testing, but if the biggest names in
development can't manage to figure it, I say leave it up to the
compiler. Returning nulls or special value in cases of failures takes
us back to the days of C and Fortran.


From jehugaleahsa at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 22:00:48 2011
From: jehugaleahsa at gmail.com (Travis Parks)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:00:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3113.1322531392.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2cb176e6-322f-4c2d-a9bd-c3c5b6729cb6@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 28, 8:49?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, DevPlayer <devpla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
> > indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
> > spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
> > expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.
>
> The trouble with having a language declaration that "a tab is
> equivalent to X spaces" is that there's no consensus as to what X
> should be. Historically X has always been 8, and quite a few programs
> still assume this. I personally like 4. Some keep things narrow with
> 2. You can even go 1 - a strict substitution of \t with \x20. Once you
> declare it in your language, you immediately break everyone who uses
> anything different.
>
> ChrisA

Yeah. We must remember the Unix users, espcially those who don't know
how to hack Vim or bash. I've decided not to require a specific number
of spaces. I am still teetering on whether to allow tabs.


From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 28 22:53:14 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:53:14 -0500
Subject: Does py2app improves speed?
In-Reply-To: <4ED3E901.30306@yahoo.com>
References: <0F07657D-9C87-417E-ADCB-150EB5040CAF@gmail.com>	<CALwzidnD-hP-NQouJtfJLNLOsm7Sp5cZ_AA1cnLWcBUNKpv6AA@mail.gmail.com>	<3F9F123B-4A94-46C7-9184-2D0EF7F3A27C@gmail.com>	<4ECE48E3.6070701@davea.name>	<432E5AEC-F306-4043-B28D-AF4213F0526E@gmail.com>	<mailman.3006.1322144862.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ED3E901.30306@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ED4572A.5020508@davea.name>

On 11/28/2011 03:03 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
> On 11/24/2011 9:27 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> ...
>> Several ways to speed up code.
>>
>> 1) use language features to best advantage
>> 2) use 3rd party libraries that do certain things well
>> 3) use best algorithms, subject to #1 and #2
>> 4) have someone else review the code (perhaps on the list, perhaps
>> within your own organization)
>> 5) measure (eg. profile it)
>> 6) use optimizing tools, such as pypy or Cython.
>> 7) rewrite parts of it in another language
>> 8) get a faster processor
>> 9) rewrite it all in another language
>>
>> It takes experience to choose between these, and each project is
>> different. But even the most experienced developers will frequently
>> guess entirely wrong where the bottleneck is, which is why you measure
>> if you care.
>
> I agree that measuring (profiling) is the most critical.
>
> As you say, even the most experienced programmers can guess wrong.  
> The first time I used a profiler a couple of decades ago I was 
> egotistical enough to wonder how this thing could help me.  After all, 
> I wrote the code.  I knew what it did.  The profiler wasn't going to 
> tell me anything I didn't know.
>
> I learned  a little humility after reading the profiler output.  The 
> program was spending most of its time in a place that I never dreamed 
> was a problem, and a 10 minute fix cut run times in half.
>
> In that particular case there wasn't even a design problem, it was 
> just a procedure call inside a tight loop that executed far more often 
> than I imagined and could be replaced with a few lines of inline code.
>
> I think the rest of your list is excellent too.
>
>     Alan

Thanks.  I once had an assignment to speed up a function implementation 
which was obviously slow (I had noted the same thing to the architect 
when I first saw the code;  it would definitely be slow on large data 
sets).  I knew faster algorithms.  But I stopped instead to measure how 
many times it was being called in the particularly slow scenario that 
the customer complained about.  Turns out it wasn't being called at 
all.  I asked the appropriate developer why he had chosen to do it 
another way (expecting he'd say because he knew this function was slow), 
and he gave me an entirely different reason.  I asked him whether he'd 
be willing to call this function if I fixed his complaint about its 
interface, and he agreed.

Now, I rewrote the function, making a change to tighten its interface 
restrictions.  And it cut the customer's wait time from 90 minutes to 
2.  Everyone was happy.

Total time spent, a week.  But I didn't start coding till the 4th day.


-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Mon Nov 28 22:55:49 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:55:49 -0500
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>

On 11/28/2011 03:08 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/28/2011 6:45 AM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
>> I'm happily using the ast module to analyze some code,
>> but my scripts need also to run unfortunately on python 2.5
>>
>> The _ast was there already, but the ast helpers not yet.
>> Is it ok if I just copy over the source from the ast helpers in my code
>> base
>
> That is the standard way of backporting features of later versions.
>
But don't forget to tag it as version specific, so it gets removed when 
the later version of the library is available.  There are various ways 
of doing that, but the easiest is probably to put a test in the 
acceptance suite that fails if this code is used in 2.6 or later.

-- 

DaveA



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 22:58:17 2011
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:58:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e4909b58-ae18-4169-ba44-ee9abf8d8260@c16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 29, 5:22?am, Den <patents... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 3:01?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> > That is correct. You probably should rarely use `is`. Apart from testing
> > for None, use of `is` should be rare.
>
> With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> construct should be rare. ?All constructs should be used
> *appropriately*.

Steven didn't say it _shouldn't_ be used, only that it it should be
_rarely_ used. General consensus would be that that is the most
appropriate use of 'is'.

Value comparisons are _far_ more common in Python than identity
comparisons, the ubiquitous None notwithstanding.

But for your general point, I totally agree. I feel the same way about
the ternary syntax, boolean defaults for conditionals etc


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 23:56:19 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:56:19 -0700
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmi7hr1d905pGy6P7maHT1_vsbTft8gYAAw49OCdzMV+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Travis Parks <jehugaleahsa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find that interesting. I also find it interesting that the common
> functional methods (all, any, map, filter) are basically built into
> Python core language. That is unusual for most imperative programming
> languages early-on.

all and any are actually quite recent additions.  Guido added them to
placate users of "reduce(lambda x, y: x and y, foo)" back when the
plan was to remove reduce in Python 3.

Cheers,
Ian


From mrinalini at edss.co.in  Tue Nov 29 02:34:01 2011
From: mrinalini at edss.co.in (Mrinalini Kulkarni)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:01 +0530
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
Message-ID: <98b3b679c77003a565bd306bc06c5709@edss.co.in>

 Hi

 I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it 
 executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and 
 their values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this 
 be done.

 thanks,



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 03:04:14 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 08:04:14 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<ca5fc7af-acf9-4422-bb2e-b25a7a2384ca@cc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3113.1322531392.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed491fe$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:49:49 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, DevPlayer <devplayer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> To me, I would think the interpreter finding the coder's intended
>> indent wouldn't be that hard. And just make the need for consistant
>> spaces or tabs irrevelent simply by reformatting the indent as
>> expected. Pretty much all my text editors can.
> 
> The trouble with having a language declaration that "a tab is equivalent
> to X spaces" is that there's no consensus as to what X should be.
> Historically X has always been 8, and quite a few programs still assume
> this. I personally like 4. Some keep things narrow with 2. You can even
> go 1 - a strict substitution of \t with \x20. Once you declare it in
> your language, you immediately break everyone who uses anything
> different.

Why should we enforce how many spaces a tab is set to? That is literally 
only visible to the editor, not the compiler. (Unless the parser is 
particularly stupid and merely substitutes X spaces for a tab every time 
it sees one.)

Mixed spaces and tabs in an indent are ambiguous, and so raises 
SyntaxError (or at least it *should* raise SyntaxError). But separate 
code blocks can use different absolute indent levels without ambiguity, 
so long as the relative indentation is consistent:

def ham(): # tab stops at 4 and 8
    do(a)
    do(b)
    if c:
        do(c)
    else:
        do(d)


def spam(): # tab stops at 8 and 12
        do(a)
        do(b)
        if c:
            do(c)
        else:
            do(d)

There is no meaningful difference in indentation between ham and spam 
above. In either case, I could replace spaces with tabs to get the same 
relative indents regardless of the absolute indentation.

I can appreciate the aesthetic argument that *within a single file*, 
indentation should be consistent. But it's not logically necessary for 
the parser: it need only be consistent within a single code unit 
(function or class usually). In other words: syntax should only care 
about relative indentation, absolute indentation belongs as a coding 
standard.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 03:12:09 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 08:12:09 GMT
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3114.1322535454.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed493d8$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:57:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> I'm inclined toward an alternative: explicit recursion. Either a
> different syntax, or a special-case on the use of the function's own
> name, but whichever syntax you use, it compiles in a "recurse" opcode.
> That way, if name bindings change, it's still going to recurse -
> something few languages guarantee, and therefore few languages can
> optimize.

As I recall, Forth uses (or used) a special RECURSE word which turned on 
the recursion bit while compiling, so that the compiled word could see 
itself.

By memory, the (incomplete) definition:

: fact dup 1- fact * ;

would fail, unless you happened to already have another word called fact 
existing at compilation time. To make it recurse correctly, the compiler 
needs to make sure that the namespace fact sees includes itself:

RECURSE : fact dup 1- fact * ;

which should work, apart from the embarrassing fact that I don't recall 
the syntax for conditional jumps and so the recursion never terminates.

:)


-- 
Steven


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov 29 03:15:41 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:15:41 +0100
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
In-Reply-To: <98b3b679c77003a565bd306bc06c5709@edss.co.in>
References: <98b3b679c77003a565bd306bc06c5709@edss.co.in>
Message-ID: <jb24be$ltg$1@dough.gmane.org>

Mrinalini Kulkarni, 29.11.2011 08:34:
> I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it
> executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and their
> values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this be done.

Assuming you have the source as well, you should change your script to be 
usable as an importable module as well as an executable script. Here is how:

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html#executing-modules-as-scripts

If you do not have the source, however, you are a bit out of luck. In that 
case, what so you mean by "pass a set of variables"? Do you mean command 
line arguments, or do you want to pass in global names that the module can 
use? In the first case, you may need to modify sys.argv. If the latter, you 
could change the globals() of the imported module. However, both are clumsy 
solutions, and if possible at all, you should change the module source code 
instead.

Stefan



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 03:41:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 08:41:30 GMT
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ed49aba$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:22:09 -0800, Den wrote:

> With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> construct should be rare.  All constructs should be used
> *appropriately*.

And if those appropriate conditions are rare, then the use of the 
appropriate construct should also be rare. Since it is rare to need to 
care about identity, use of `is` should be rare too.

This is mostly descriptive statement rather than a prescriptive one: it 
is a fact that use of `is` is much less common than use of ==, and even 
more so if you disregard the obvious case of "x is None". 

I am however being a little prescriptive: if somebody thinks they need to 
care about identity, chances are good -- but not certain -- that they're 
mistaken. In code that gives you the choice between writing `is` and ==, 
it is usually, but not often, a bug to write `is`. The proof of this is 
that in actual, existing code, if you swapped == and `is`, most of the 
code would stop working correctly. 

On the other hand if you actually do need to care about identity, then go 
for it. I'm not saying that caring about identity should be prohibited, 
only that in practice it is uncommon that you will.


> While in general a particular use of a Python construct may be rare, if
> the programmer is involved deeply with that rare use, then it is NOT
> rare to him/her.

Regardless of how common brain surgery might be to a brain surgeon, it is 
rare in general. That's all I'm saying. If you happen to work for a data 
recovery centre, then pulling the disk platter out of a hard disk drive 
might be commonplace to you, nevertheless pulling platters out of disks 
is vanishingly rare: out of tens of thousands of HDDs, perhaps only a few 
dozen will be sent to a recover centre at all.

[...]
> Sorry, you plucked a string of mine.  One does not throw a tool out of
> your tool box because it might be dangerous.  Table saws are incredibly
> dangerous, but in the hands of a skilled operator can be competently and
> safely used to produce beautiful woodwork.  To say *never* use a table
> saw because it's dangerous is silly.

Fortunately, I didn't say "never".

In the case of `is`, one shouldn't avoid using `is` because it is 
dangerous, but merely because it is the wrong thing to use. In the same 
way, the average programmer will rarely need to use the math.sinh and 
math.cosh functions, not because they are bad, evil, or dangerous, but 
because they are used for specialist purposes that most coders would 
never care about. Hell, most coders rarely use the standard trigonometric 
functions sin and cos, let alone the hyperbolic versions! This is not a 
value judgement.

If I, in a misplaced sense of egalitarianism ("Emancipation for maths 
functions! Right on brothers!") decided to use sinh instead of sin 
because they looked and sounded similar, my code would almost certain be 
buggy. Likewise if I decided to use `is` instead of == because in English 
they have similar meanings, my code would probably be buggy too.

Sorry to belabour the point, but we're in violent agreement here <wink>



-- 
Steven


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 29 03:53:16 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:53:16 -0500
Subject: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference
In-Reply-To: <4ed493d8$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>	<ebcb6b27-a1bd-402d-9571-7a86fd460a01@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.3103.1322508812.27778.python-list@python.org>	<4ed40a2e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<861e1820-e70b-4f17-b668-53c4052974f5@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.3114.1322535454.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed493d8$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ED49D7C.9000704@davea.name>

On 11/29/2011 03:12 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:57:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> I'm inclined toward an alternative: explicit recursion. Either a
>> different syntax, or a special-case on the use of the function's own
>> name, but whichever syntax you use, it compiles in a "recurse" opcode.
>> That way, if name bindings change, it's still going to recurse -
>> something few languages guarantee, and therefore few languages can
>> optimize.
> As I recall, Forth uses (or used) a special RECURSE word which turned on
> the recursion bit while compiling, so that the compiled word could see
> itself.
>
> By memory, the (incomplete) definition:
>
> : fact dup 1- fact * ;
>
> would fail, unless you happened to already have another word called fact
> existing at compilation time. To make it recurse correctly, the compiler
> needs to make sure that the namespace fact sees includes itself:
>
> RECURSE : fact dup 1- fact * ;
>
> which should work, apart from the embarrassing fact that I don't recall
> the syntax for conditional jumps and so the recursion never terminates.
>
> :)
>
The way I remember it, the current definition was "smudged" which made 
it invisible (it basically changed the name to something unlikely) 
during the compilation.  After all, if you actually ran it at compile 
time (which was frequently done), you could fall right into 
uninitialized space.  Anyway, some implementations had an immediate 
SMUDGE word, which toggled the smudge bit and made it visible again.

Other implementations had an immediate word RECURSE, which compiled in 
whatever word was being currently defined.
I'm pretty sure neither FIG nor Forth79 had either of these.  But I 
don't recall the ANSI standard (X3J14 ?), even though I was officially 
an observer.  I can't even remember what happened to my printed copy of 
the standard.

The easiest word for conditional is IF/ELSE/THEN.   IF will skip to the 
ELSE or THEN if the condition is false.  So something resembling:

: fact dup 1- dup 0<> if recurse * then ;

might do it.  That's very rough, however.  It's been a long time.

-- 

DaveA



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Nov 29 04:02:31 2011
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:02:31 +0100
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3118.1322553616.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3118.1322553616.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7mjeq8-ubf.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 29.11.2011 08:34, schrieb Mrinalini Kulkarni:
> I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it
> executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and
> their values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this
> be done.

I don't think what you want is possible, due to a think-o in your 
design. Let me explain...
Firstly, .pyc files are basically the same as .py files, only in a 
different presentation. Then, PyImport_Import is basically the same as 
using "import" in a Python program. Now, and that is where your fault 
lies, importing a module actually means executing that module! For 
example, the definition of a function is code that when executed will 
cause a function to be created and attached to the current scope with 
the according name. This is what makes it so easy to implement local 
functions that are parametrized by arguments to the outer function. 
Still, a function is not something that is "static", like in C or Java, 
but rather the result of executing its function definition.

Now, how to get around this? The specialty about the import is that the 
__name__ attribute is not set to "__main__", upon which many scripts 
already react. So, in order to "prevent execution" (in the sense that 
you probably mean), you simply wrap the according code in a function. 
The function definition will then be executed, giving you a function 
that you can call with the according parameters, but the function itself 
will not be executed automatically. If you want that to happen when 
executing the .pyc file directly, check the content of __name__ and call 
the function if it is "__main__".

Note that another approach would be introspection, traversing through 
the namespaces to find out those parameters, but I would consider this 
solution as hackish if the one above is feasible.

Good luck!

Uli


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 04:51:24 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:51:24 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
Message-ID: <4ED4AB1C.3080609@gmail.com>

On 11/29/2011 03:55 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
> But don't forget to tag it as version specific, so it gets removed 
> when the later version of the library is available.  There are various 
> ways of doing that, but the easiest is probably to put a test in the 
> acceptance suite that fails if this code is used in 2.6 or later.
>

Ok thanks,
something like this is ok?
(or maybe I can use a try/catch and export my own if is not found in the 
standard library?)

from sys import version_info

if version_info[1] == 5:
     from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
else:
     from ast import parse, NodeVisitor



From arnodel at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 05:11:06 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:11:06 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED4AB1C.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name> <4ED4AB1C.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1bSxdseL5ipCtxwWKQaSoBF6c=YFseZ-Y=R4=cNbrM=rg@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 November 2011 09:51, Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> from sys import version_info
>
> if version_info[1] == 5:
> ? ?from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> else:
> ? ?from ast import parse, NodeVisitor

Why don't you just:

try:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
except ImportError:
    from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor

-- 
Arnaud


From mlto at live.jp  Tue Nov 29 05:46:24 2011
From: mlto at live.jp (Toshiyuki Ogura)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:46:24 +0900
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
Message-ID: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>


Hi.

I found a problem with Python 2.5.6.
test_commands fails when 'make test'.
bugs.python.org doesn't seem to have an option for Python 2.5 in "Versions:" drop-down menu when creating an issue.
The problem seems to be the same as #11946.
http://bugs.python.org/issue11946
I also made a patch for 2.5.6.

--- Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py.orig    2006-06-29 04:10:08.000000000 +0000
+++ Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py    2011-11-29 08:46:29.602607019 +0000
@@ -46,11 +46,7 @@
         #     drwxr-xr-x   15 Joe User My Group     4096 Aug 12 12:50 /
         # Note that the first case above has a space in the group name
         # while the second one has a space in both names.
-        pat = r'''d.........   # It is a directory.
-                  \+?          # It may have ACLs.
-                  \s+\d+       # It has some number of links.
-                  [^/]*        # Skip user, group, size, and date.
-                  /\.          # and end with the name of the file.
+        pat = r'''^.*(\/\.)[\ ]*[\n\r]*$
                '''
 
         self.assert_(re.match(pat, getstatus("/."), re.VERBOSE))


Can I submit the issue at bugs.python.org?
I think many people are still using Python 2.5 because of Google App Engine and fixing bugs with 2.5 is still helpful.

Toshiyuki Ogura

 		 	   		  
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Nov 29 06:32:30 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 11:32:30 GMT
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
	<mailman.3121.1322560291.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:51:24 +0000, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 03:55 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> But don't forget to tag it as version specific, so it gets removed when
>> the later version of the library is available.  There are various ways
>> of doing that, but the easiest is probably to put a test in the
>> acceptance suite that fails if this code is used in 2.6 or later.
>>
>>
> Ok thanks,
> something like this is ok?
> (or maybe I can use a try/catch and export my own if is not found in the
> standard library?)
> 
> from sys import version_info
> 
> if version_info[1] == 5:
>      from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> else:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor


I prefer to check against sys.version.

import sys
if sys.version <= '2.5':
    from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
else:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor



Or even:


try:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
except ImportError:
    from ast import parse, NodeVisitor



-- 
Steven


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Tue Nov 29 07:50:59 2011
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:50:59 +0000
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to
	XML)
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
	<4ed37a63$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <j21fq8x1l2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2011-11-28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:01 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
>> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
>> 
>> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8',
>> errors='replace') big_json = json.load(input_source)
>> input_source.close()
>> 
>> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance of
>> xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to rewrite
>> dict keys as valid element names if necessary), 
>
> How are you doing that? What do you consider valid?

Regex-replacing all whitespace ('\s+') with '_', and adding 'a_' to
the beginning of any potential tag that doesn't start with a letter.
This is good enough for my purposes.

>> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
>> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>
> It will force the output to be valid UTF-8 encoded to bytes, not 
> necessarily valid XML.

Yes!

>> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
>> PCDATA invalid Char value 31
>
> What's xmlstarlet, and at what point does it give this error? It doesn't 
> appear to be in the standard library.

It's a command-line tool I use a lot for finding the bad bits in XML,
nothing to do with python.

http://xmlstar.sourceforge.net/

>> I guess I need to process each piece of PCDATA to clean out the control
>> characters before creating the text node:
>> 
>>   text = doc.createTextNode(j)
>>   root.appendChild(text)
>> 
>> What's the best way to do that, bearing in mind that there can be
>> multibyte characters in the strings?
>
> Are you mixing unicode and byte strings?

I don't think I am.

> Are you sure that the input source is actually UTF-8? If not, then all 
> bets are off: even if the decoding step works, and returns a string, it 
> may contain the wrong characters. This might explain why you are getting 
> unexpected control characters in the output: they've come from a badly 
> decoded input.

I'm pretty sure that the input is really UTF-8, but has a few control
characters (fairly rare).

> Another possibility is that your data actually does contain control 
> characters where there shouldn't be any.

I think that's the problem, and I'm looking for an efficient way to
delete them from unicode strings.


-- 
Some say the world will end in fire; some say in segfaults.
                                                 [XKCD 312]


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Tue Nov 29 07:57:22 2011
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:57:22 +0000
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON to
	XML)
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
	<mailman.3102.1322504456.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ie1fq8x1r2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2011-11-28, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Adam Funk, 25.11.2011 14:50:
>> I'm converting JSON data to XML using the standard library's json and
>> xml.dom.minidom modules.  I get the input this way:
>>
>> input_source = codecs.open(input_file, 'rb', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
>
> It doesn't make sense to use codecs.open() with a "b" mode.

OK, thanks.

>> big_json = json.load(input_source)
>
> You shouldn't decode the input before passing it into json.load(), just 
> open the file in binary mode. Serialised JSON is defined as being UTF-8 
> encoded (or BOM-prefixed), not decoded Unicode.

So just do
  input_source = open(input_file, 'rb')
  big_json = json.load(input_source)
?

>> input_source.close()
>
> In case of a failure, the file will not be closed safely. All in all, use 
> this instead:
>
>      with open(input_file, 'rb') as f:
>          big_json = json.load(f)

OK, thanks.

>> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
>> of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
>> rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary)
>
> If the name "big_json" is supposed to hint at a large set of data, you may 
> want to use something other than minidom. Take a look at the 
> xml.etree.cElementTree module instead, which is substantially more memory 
> efficient.

Well, the input file in this case contains one big JSON list of
reasonably sized elements, each of which I'm turning into a separate
XML file.  The output files range from 600 to 6000 bytes.


>> and I save the document:
>>
>> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
>> doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
>> xml_file.close()
>
> Same mistakes as above. Especially the double encoding is both unnecessary 
> and likely to fail. This is also most likely the source of your problems.

Well actually, I had the problem with the occasional control
characters in the output *before* I started sticking encoding="UTF-8"
all over the place (in an unsuccessful attempt to beat them down).


>> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
>> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>>
>> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
>> PCDATA invalid Char value 31
>
> This strongly hints at a broken encoding, which can easily be triggered by 
> your erroneous encode-and-encode cycles above.

No, I've checked the JSON input and those exact control characters are
there too.  I want to suppress them (delete or replace with spaces).

> Also, the kind of problem you present here makes it pretty clear that you 
> are using Python 2.x. In Python 3, you'd get the appropriate exceptions 
> when trying to write binary data to a Unicode file.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the version I'm using, which is "2.7.2+".


-- 
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-?999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the 
myth of the infallible electronic brain.  (Stob 2001)


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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 08:51:26 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:51:26 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
	<mailman.3121.1322560291.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4ED4E35E.6090405@gmail.com>

On 11/29/2011 11:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> I prefer to check against sys.version.
>
> import sys
> if sys.version<= '2.5':
>      from psi.devsonly.ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> else:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
>
>
>
> Or even:
>
>
> try:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
> except ImportError:
>      from ast import parse, NodeVisitor
>
>
>

The try/except is probably the nicest...
I've seen in other places using sys.version <=, but is it a good idea to 
rely
on the fact that the <= on strings has the right semantic?
After all that's just a string, version_info looks more correct to me..


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 09:07:08 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:07:08 +1100
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
In-Reply-To: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1POmj32t3YLBSG2XsvM_E_yB1W7KG2=XCUkt5RSsoL9bg@mail.gmail.com>

Note the re.VERBOSE flag allows this whitespace treatment of the pattern.

2011/11/29 Toshiyuki Ogura <mlto at live.jp>:
> Hi.
>
> I found a problem with Python 2.5.6.
> test_commands fails when 'make test'.
> bugs.python.org doesn't seem to have an option for Python 2.5 in "Versions:"
> drop-down menu when creating an issue.
> The problem seems to be the same as #11946.
> http://bugs.python.org/issue11946
> I also made a patch for 2.5.6.
>
> --- Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py.orig??? 2006-06-29
> 04:10:08.000000000 +0000
> +++ Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py??? 2011-11-29 08:46:29.602607019
> +0000
> @@ -46,11 +46,7 @@
> ???????? #???? drwxr-xr-x?? 15 Joe User My Group???? 4096 Aug 12 12:50 /
> ???????? # Note that the first case above has a space in the group name
> ???????? # while the second one has a space in both names.
> -? ?????? pat = r'''d.........?? # It is a directory.
> -????????????????? \+?????????? # It may have ACLs.
> -????????????????? \s+\d+?????? # It has some number of links.
> -????????????????? [^/]*??????? # Skip user, group, size, and date.
> -????????????????? /\.????????? # and end with the name of the file.
> +??????? pat = r'''^.*(\/\.)[\ ]*[\n\r]*$
> ??????????&nbs p;???? '''
>
> ???????? self.assert_(re.match(pat, getstatus("/."), re.VERBOSE))
>
>
> Can I submit the issue at bugs.python.org?
> I think many people are still using Python 2.5 because of Google App Engine
> and fixing bugs with 2.5 is still helpful.
>
> Toshiyuki Ogura
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Nov 29 09:19:55 2011
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 06:19:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing .pyc using python c api
In-Reply-To: <7mjeq8-ubf.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <mailman.3118.1322553616.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<7mjeq8-ubf.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4302173.419.1322576395669.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnh1>

On Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:02:31 PM UTC+8, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Am 29.11.2011 08:34, schrieb Mrinalini Kulkarni:
> > I need to run .pyc files using python c api. if i do PyImport_Import it
> > executes the script. However, i need to pass a set of variables and
> > their values which will be accessed from within the script. How can this
> > be done.
> 
> I don't think what you want is possible, due to a think-o in your 
> design. Let me explain...
> Firstly, .pyc files are basically the same as .py files, only in a 
> different presentation. Then, PyImport_Import is basically the same as 
> using "import" in a Python program. Now, and that is where your fault 
> lies, importing a module actually means executing that module! For 
> example, the definition of a function is code that when executed will 
> cause a function to be created and attached to the current scope with 
> the according name. This is what makes it so easy to implement local 
> functions that are parametrized by arguments to the outer function. 
> Still, a function is not something that is "static", like in C or Java, 
> but rather the result of executing its function definition.
> 
> Now, how to get around this? The specialty about the import is that the 
> __name__ attribute is not set to "__main__", upon which many scripts 
> already react. So, in order to "prevent execution" (in the sense that 
> you probably mean), you simply wrap the according code in a function. 
> The function definition will then be executed, giving you a function 
> that you can call with the according parameters, but the function itself 
> will not be executed automatically. If you want that to happen when 
> executing the .pyc file directly, check the content of __name__ and call 
> the function if it is "__main__".
> 
> Note that another approach would be introspection, traversing through 
> the namespaces to find out those parameters, but I would consider this 
> solution as hackish if the one above is feasible.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Uli

Please use psyco and pyrex and C or whatever that can read saved results in a file, or just learn how to replace a hash or a sort in  python's build in library of better speed, don't do reference overheads in 
those c type variables that won't overflow and underflow  and used by other objects in python. Not trivial but well documented to cheer for a race!

 


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Nov 29 09:33:57 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:33:57 +0100
Subject: suppressing bad characters in output PCDATA (converting JSON
	to XML)
In-Reply-To: <ie1fq8x1r2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
References: <91j4q8xgv9.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>	<mailman.3102.1322504456.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<ie1fq8x1r2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <jb2qgl$pf9$1@dough.gmane.org>

Adam Funk, 29.11.2011 13:57:
> On 2011-11-28, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Adam Funk, 25.11.2011 14:50:
>>> Then I recurse through the contents of big_json to build an instance
>>> of xml.dom.minidom.Document (the recursion includes some code to
>>> rewrite dict keys as valid element names if necessary)
>>
>> If the name "big_json" is supposed to hint at a large set of data, you may
>> want to use something other than minidom. Take a look at the
>> xml.etree.cElementTree module instead, which is substantially more memory
>> efficient.
>
> Well, the input file in this case contains one big JSON list of
> reasonably sized elements, each of which I'm turning into a separate
> XML file.  The output files range from 600 to 6000 bytes.

It's also substantially easier to use, but if your XML writing code works 
already, why change it.


>>> and I save the document:
>>>
>>> xml_file = codecs.open(output_fullpath, 'w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')
>>> doc.writexml(xml_file, encoding='UTF-8')
>>> xml_file.close()
>>
>> Same mistakes as above. Especially the double encoding is both unnecessary
>> and likely to fail. This is also most likely the source of your problems.
>
> Well actually, I had the problem with the occasional control
> characters in the output *before* I started sticking encoding="UTF-8"
> all over the place (in an unsuccessful attempt to beat them down).

You should read up on Unicode a bit.


>>> I thought this would force all the output to be valid, but xmlstarlet
>>> gives some errors like these on a few documents:
>>>
>>> PCDATA invalid Char value 7
>>> PCDATA invalid Char value 31
>>
>> This strongly hints at a broken encoding, which can easily be triggered by
>> your erroneous encode-and-encode cycles above.
>
> No, I've checked the JSON input and those exact control characters are
> there too.

Ah, right, I didn't look closely enough. Those are forbidden in XML:

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#charsets

It's sad that minidom (apparently) lets them pass through without even a 
warning.


> I want to suppress them (delete or replace with spaces).

Ok, then you need to process your string content while creating XML from 
it. If replacing is enough, take a look at string.maketrans() in the string 
module and str.translate(), a method on strings. Or maybe just use a 
regular expression that matches any whitespace character and replace it 
with a space. Or whatever suits your data best.


>> Also, the kind of problem you present here makes it pretty clear that you
>> are using Python 2.x. In Python 3, you'd get the appropriate exceptions
>> when trying to write binary data to a Unicode file.
>
> Sorry, I forgot to mention the version I'm using, which is "2.7.2+".

Yep, Py2 makes Unicode handling harder than it should be.

Stefan



From mlto at live.jp  Tue Nov 29 10:17:50 2011
From: mlto at live.jp (Toshiyuki Ogura)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:17:50 +0900
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
In-Reply-To: <CAB4yi1POmj32t3YLBSG2XsvM_E_yB1W7KG2=XCUkt5RSsoL9bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>,
	<CAB4yi1POmj32t3YLBSG2XsvM_E_yB1W7KG2=XCUkt5RSsoL9bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU150-W5A34478B380EF2DDF7F7AC2B30@phx.gbl>


I mistakenly posted the previous message in html format, and some rubbish text '&nbs p;' was unexpectedly inserted in the patch.
I'll post the content of the patch again.
Sorry for the inconvenience.


--- Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py.orig??? 2006-06-29 04:10:08.000000000 +0000
+++ Python-2.5.6/Lib/test/test_commands.py??? 2011-11-29 08:46:29.602607019 +0000
@@ -46,11 +46,7 @@
???????? #???? drwxr-xr-x?? 15 Joe User My Group???? 4096 Aug 12 12:50 /
???????? # Note that the first case above has a space in the group name
???????? # while the second one has a space in both names.
-??????? pat = r'''d.........?? # It is a directory.
-????????????????? \+?????????? # It may have ACLs.
-????????????????? \s+\d+?????? # It has some number of links.
-????????????????? [^/]*??????? # Skip user, group, size, and date.
-????????????????? /\.????????? # and end with the name of the file.
+??????? pat = r'''^.*(\/\.)[\ ]*[\n\r]*$
??????????????? '''
?
???????? self.assert_(re.match(pat, getstatus("/."), re.VERBOSE))






Toshiyuki Ogura

 		 	   		  

From jmarcedwards at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 10:21:52 2011
From: jmarcedwards at gmail.com (J. Marc Edwards)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:21:52 -0500
Subject: Amateur question on class definitions...
Message-ID: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>

So I am defining my Python classes for a Django data model.  I have a
the following class hierarchy and would value some expert input on how
to best implement this.

I have many instances of a particular class which I call a "workflow",
e.g. wf_1, wf_2, wf_3, etc.
These class instances of workflows can be combined into "composite
workflows", e.g. {cwf_1 is comprised of wf1 & wf_3}, {cwf_2 is wf_2 and
wf_3}, or {cwf_3 is just wf_2}, etc.
The workflows that constitute the composite workflow is positionally
dependent, i.e. if cwf_1 is comprised of wf_1 and wf_3, then wf_1 comes
1st AND wf_3 is 2nd.
As I have many workflow instances that accumulate in my persistent
database (Django data model), then the composite workflows become an
ordered collection of workflow instances.

My first thought here is that the composite workflow class should have a
field that is a simple list of workflows, i.e. list(workflows), but I am
somewhat unsure of how to code this correctly.

Here is a sample pseudo-code...

class a_workflow(models.Model):
...

class composite_workflow(models.Model):
    ...a list of "a_workflows", i.e. a composite workflow, should I use
this syntax?
    set_of_workflows = list(a_workflow)

Is this how a pro would do this?

Regards, Marc
-- 

J. Marc Edwards
Lead Architect - Semiconductor Design Portals
Nimbis Services, Inc.
Skype: (919) 747-3775
Cell:  (919) 345-1021
Fax:   (919) 882-8602
marc.edwards at nimbisservices.com
www.nimbisservices.com

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From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 10:59:40 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:59:40 +1100
Subject: Amateur question on class definitions...
In-Reply-To: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
References: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpe2P1YzuL6kjAiLmrFkZzpVRXXgHCxk2DOp-jJNPsxmg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:21 AM, J. Marc Edwards <jmarcedwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> ??? ...a list of "a_workflows", i.e. a composite workflow, should I use this
> syntax?
> ??? set_of_workflows = list(a_workflow)
>

This would be usual:

set_of_workflows = [a_workflow]

Using the list() constructor directly is for when you have some other
iterable; for instance, a string is iterable over its characters:

>>> list("Hello")
['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o']

When you want to wrap up a single object in a list, square brackets
syntax is what you want.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 11:38:19 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:38:19 -0700
Subject: Amateur question on class definitions...
In-Reply-To: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
References: <4ED4F890.70201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidngSHk--HVb_yiqLSEeXMUnC7rHnTjj_EngOZq8hr13zw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:21 AM, J. Marc Edwards <jmarcedwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I am defining my Python classes for a Django data model.? I have a the
> following class hierarchy and would value some expert input on how to best
> implement this.
>
> I have many instances of a particular class which I call a "workflow", e.g.
> wf_1, wf_2, wf_3, etc.
> These class instances of workflows can be combined into "composite
> workflows", e.g. {cwf_1 is comprised of wf1 & wf_3}, {cwf_2 is wf_2 and
> wf_3}, or {cwf_3 is just wf_2}, etc.
> The workflows that constitute the composite workflow is positionally
> dependent, i.e. if cwf_1 is comprised of wf_1 and wf_3, then wf_1 comes 1st
> AND wf_3 is 2nd.
> As I have many workflow instances that accumulate in my persistent database
> (Django data model), then the composite workflows become an ordered
> collection of workflow instances.
>
> My first thought here is that the composite workflow class should have a
> field that is a simple list of workflows, i.e. list(workflows), but I am
> somewhat unsure of how to code this correctly.
>
> Here is a sample pseudo-code...
>
> class a_workflow(models.Model):
> ...
>
> class composite_workflow(models.Model):
> ??? ...a list of "a_workflows", i.e. a composite workflow, should I use this
> syntax?
> ??? set_of_workflows = list(a_workflow)
>
> Is this how a pro would do this?

That would work in general, but since these are Django models I assume
that this relationship will need to be stored in the database.  You'll
need to use a ManyToManyField instead.  I would do something like
this:

class Workflow(models.Model):
    pass

class CompositeWorkflow(models.Model):
    workflow_set = models.ManyToManyField('Workflow',
through='CompositeWorkflowOrder')

class CompositeWorkflowOrder(models.Model):
    workflow = models.ForeignKey('Workflow')
    composite_workflow = models.ForeignKey('CompositeWorkflow')
    sequence_num = models.IntegerField()

The CompositeWorkflowOrder model is then responsible for tracking
which workflows are contained by which composite workflows, and in
what order they appear (using sequence_num).  See the Django docs on
ManyToManyFields for more info.

Cheers,
Ian


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 12:11:26 2011
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:11:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pragmatics of the standard is() function
References: <4ed15825$0$21841$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4ed16fb9$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<c14ce2ad-e2e3-4186-a3a6-3c22aae1ec39@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<4ed49aba$0$14018$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7de6a1b0-299e-468b-9ef2-9809643957a9@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 29, 12:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:22:09 -0800, Den wrote:
> > With respect, I disagree with advice that the use of a language
> > construct should be rare. ?All constructs should be used
> > *appropriately*.
>
> And if those appropriate conditions are rare, then the use of the
> appropriate construct should also be rare. Since it is rare to need to
> care about identity, use of `is` should be rare too.
>
> This is mostly descriptive statement rather than a prescriptive one: it
> is a fact that use of `is` is much less common than use of ==, and even
> more so if you disregard the obvious case of "x is None".
>
> I am however being a little prescriptive: if somebody thinks they need to
> care about identity, chances are good -- but not certain -- that they're
> mistaken. In code that gives you the choice between writing `is` and ==,
> it is usually, but not often, a bug to write `is`. The proof of this is
> that in actual, existing code, if you swapped == and `is`, most of the
> code would stop working correctly.
>
> On the other hand if you actually do need to care about identity, then go
> for it. I'm not saying that caring about identity should be prohibited,
> only that in practice it is uncommon that you will.
>
> > While in general a particular use of a Python construct may be rare, if
> > the programmer is involved deeply with that rare use, then it is NOT
> > rare to him/her.
>
> Regardless of how common brain surgery might be to a brain surgeon, it is
> rare in general. That's all I'm saying. If you happen to work for a data
> recovery centre, then pulling the disk platter out of a hard disk drive
> might be commonplace to you, nevertheless pulling platters out of disks
> is vanishingly rare: out of tens of thousands of HDDs, perhaps only a few
> dozen will be sent to a recover centre at all.
>
> [...]
>
> > Sorry, you plucked a string of mine. ?One does not throw a tool out of
> > your tool box because it might be dangerous. ?Table saws are incredibly
> > dangerous, but in the hands of a skilled operator can be competently and
> > safely used to produce beautiful woodwork. ?To say *never* use a table
> > saw because it's dangerous is silly.
>
> Fortunately, I didn't say "never".
>
> In the case of `is`, one shouldn't avoid using `is` because it is
> dangerous, but merely because it is the wrong thing to use. In the same
> way, the average programmer will rarely need to use the math.sinh and
> math.cosh functions, not because they are bad, evil, or dangerous, but
> because they are used for specialist purposes that most coders would
> never care about. Hell, most coders rarely use the standard trigonometric
> functions sin and cos, let alone the hyperbolic versions! This is not a
> value judgement.
>
> If I, in a misplaced sense of egalitarianism ("Emancipation for maths
> functions! Right on brothers!") decided to use sinh instead of sin
> because they looked and sounded similar, my code would almost certain be
> buggy. Likewise if I decided to use `is` instead of == because in English
> they have similar meanings, my code would probably be buggy too.
>
> Sorry to belabour the point, but we're in violent agreement here <wink>
>
> --
> Steven

((laugh)) Yes, I believe we are.

D


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 13:34:00 2011
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:34:00 -0500
Subject: Can I submit an issue with Python 2.5.6?
In-Reply-To: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU150-W27C87DCD67A8ECE872FC4CC2B30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyZn7UNyWe5t6_9yQkbEOvPHy+WajgAKtSobZk_pFZndmQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/11/29 Toshiyuki Ogura <mlto at live.jp>

>  I found a problem with Python 2.5.6.
>
...

> Can I submit the issue at bugs.python.org?
> I think many people are still using Python 2.5 because of Google App
> Engine and fixing bugs with 2.5 is still helpful.
>

I don't think they'll be accepted.  Python 2.5 is not slated to receive any
more releases, ever.  Not even source-only security fixes.  According to
http://www.python.org/getit/releases/2.5.6/, "This release is the final
release of Python 2.5; under the current release policy, no security issues
in Python 2.5 will be fixed anymore."  Given that they're not even
accepting security patches, I'm sure they won't accept non-security
bugfixes either.

If your goal is to get your patch accepted and deployed on google's app
engine infrastructure, you could try getting a hold of someone at google,
and asking if they accept patches directly, since there will be no further
maintenance from the core python developers.  I have no idea how difficult
it would be to do that, or if there's any interest in accepting patches
against python 2.5 at google.

-- 
Jerry
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From dpalao.python at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 14:09:44 2011
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (DPalao)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:09:44 +0100
Subject: 70% [* SPAM *] multiprocessing.Queue blocks when sending large object
Message-ID: <23330_1322593803_pATJ9jRv011464_201111292009.44527.dpalao.python@gmail.com>

Hello,
I'm trying to use multiprocessing to parallelize a code. There is a number of 
tasks (usually 12) that can be run independently. Each task produces a numpy 
array, and at the end, those arrays must be combined.
I implemented this using Queues (multiprocessing.Queue): one for input and 
another for output.
But the code blocks. And it must be related to the size of the item I put on 
the Queue: if I put a small array, the code works well; if the array is 
realistically large (in my case if can vary from 160kB to 1MB), the code 
blocks apparently forever.
I have tried this:
http://www.bryceboe.com/2011/01/28/the-python-multiprocessing-queue-and-large-
objects/
but it didn't work (especifically I put a None sentinel at the end for each 
worker).

Before I change the implementation, 
is there a way to bypass this problem with  multiprocessing.Queue?
Should I post the code (or a sketchy version of it)?

TIA,

David


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Nov 29 14:37:58 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:37:58 -0600
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <javuo7$lq0$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4ED37A96.2090905@tim.thechases.com> <javuo7$lq0$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/28/11 06:27, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 11/28/11 12:12 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> I can monkey with printing messages and using raw_input(),
>> but I'd like to know if there's a better way (such as
>> something interacting with readline for
>> text-entry-with-history-and-completion,
>
> If you import readline, then any following uses of
> raw_input() will automatically use readline. You may want to
> swap out the history when you use get_string() or confirm() so
> they don't mess up the regular Cmd history, but the basic
> functionality should work out-of-box.

I didn't realize raw_input() was so nicely overloaded.  After 
about 30 minutes of fighting with various bits of code (and 
learning that pdb's readline doesn't save/restore history), I 
tweaked up some "save the history; restore the history" wrapper 
which worked well.

>> or raw-character input for Y/N answers rather than the need
>> to hit<enter>, making it feel more uniform),
>
> I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for
> Y/N answers, too. It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some
> questions requiring an enter and some not. It can be
> unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.

After playing with it, allowing for a default Y/N value seems to 
make it a one-key selection via <enter>, but allow for 
less-surprising behavior as you detail.

Thanks for your input (no pun intended),

-tkc




From colinh at somewhere.invalid  Tue Nov 29 15:06:30 2011
From: colinh at somewhere.invalid (Colin Higwell)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:06:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
Message-ID: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>

Hi,

I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours), 
so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them 
scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results 
intended.

However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning 
and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems 
to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn 
calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the 
work. 

Is that standard best practice?

Thanks



From arnodel at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 15:34:01 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:34:01 +0000
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Yk5qyuR=HOvsvwofsO9gohGt6=4O26kEPpnXnU9GTkbA@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 November 2011 20:06, Colin Higwell <colinh at somewhere.invalid> wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Colin, and welcome to Python :)

> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours),
> so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them
> scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results
> intended.

I think you can call them either.

> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.
>
> Is that standard best practice?

When code should be put in a function is a matter of judgement in the
end, so it's not an easy question.  But roughly speaking:

- if you need to perform the same task at several points in you
program, then it's a good idea to put this in a function.  It avoids
duplication of code, minimises the chances for bugs, makes the program
easier to read (provided you find a nice name for the function!) and
also improves testability.

- if there is a task that could be performed is several different ways
but with the same result, then it's good to put in a function.  This
way when reading the program you can focus on the important thing,
which is the result of the process, without being distracted by the
details of how the result is arrived at.  Moreover, it gives you added
flexibility as you can later try a different method for performing the
same task and very easily plug it into your existing program to see if
it improves performance for example.

- if you have a piece of code which is too long to be understood
easily, consider whether you could break it down into smaller bits,
each of which has some meaning of its own, and make each bit into a
function with a name that describes clearly what it does.  Then
rewrite your big piece of code in terms of these functions.  It will
make your program a lot easier to understand when you come back to it
in the future.

As for the main() function, I don't think it is standard practice in
Python.  There is no requirement to have a main() function.  You can
use the idiom:

if __name__ == "__main__":
    ...

which will execute if you call the file as a script (as opposed to
importing it as a module)

-- 
Arnaud


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 15:36:35 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:36:35 +1100
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoFbqQbOXsynoiyxYWab_3Cm7xDsUA0-62JEwoNPiZDvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Colin Higwell <colinh at somewhere.invalid> wrote:
> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.

The reason for this practice is to allow your .py file to be either a
top-level program or an imported module.

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()

When you run a .py file directly, __name__ will be "__main__", and
it'll execute main(). (Some programs directly embed the main routine
in that if block - appropriate if main() would be very short, eg just
calling some other function.) But if you import it as a module in some
other program, that won't be the case; so instead, the module's
functions are made available to the calling program.

For simple scripts that don't have anything to offer as a module, it's
fine to not bother with this structure. Python doesn't demand
syntactic salt; that's one of its greatest features, IMHO.

Chris Angelico


From neilc at norwich.edu  Tue Nov 29 16:12:48 2011
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 29 Nov 2011 21:12:48 GMT
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3134.1322598844.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9jl06gFg9oU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2011-11-29, Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> wrote:
> As for the main() function, I don't think it is standard
> practice in Python.  There is no requirement to have a main()
> function.  You can use the idiom:

I don't start off with a main function, but if my script gets
long and complicated, or if global names have proliferated and
have become confusing, I'll refactor the whole thing into
functions, including a "main". With most globals moved into
main's namespace, calling subroutines from main forces me to
define the context that's actually necessary for each part of the
program.

The resultant refactored programs are much easier to test, read
and maintain.

TLDR: "Called-only-once" functions like main are useful as
documentation, hooks for testing, and for unraveling a snarl of
global variables.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From d at davea.name  Tue Nov 29 16:57:18 2011
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:57:18 -0500
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <4ED5553E.4050104@davea.name>

On 11/29/2011 03:06 PM, Colin Higwell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours),
> so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them
> scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results
> intended.
>
> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.
>
> Is that standard best practice?
>
> Thanks
>
Welcome to Python, and to the comp.lang.python list. Is this your first 
experience programming?

Yes, factoring your code from "monolithic" to "modular' (several 
functions, or even functions and classes), is good practice.

That's not to say that some problems don't deserve a monolithic answer, 
but if you're a beginner, i'd like to see you get into a modular habit.

You can use the words script and program pretty much interchangeably.  
in some contexts, each has additional connotations.  For example, 
somebody used to a compiled language may refer to a python source file 
as a script, implying it's not as sophisticated as his own product.  
But, closer to home, we usually refer to the file you directly pass to 
the interpreter as a script, and any added files that get imported, as 
modules, or libraries.

Other times, people will refer to a simple program as a script, implying 
that all it does is invoke some standard library functions, or even run 
some external programs.  But when it gets more complex, it gradually 
turns into a  "real program."


Why break up a monolith?

Several reasons.  If you factor the code into independent functions, and 
give them good names, then each piece of the program is easier to 
understand.  You will especially appreciate that if you come back to the 
code after doing something else for two weeks.  Similarly if somebody 
else has to take over your code, or maybe adapt it to a slightly 
different purpose.

Next, if it doesn't quite work, you can exercise the individual pieces 
independently, and narrow down the problem more quickly.

Next, if the progfram is slow, usually you can narrow it down to a few 
key functions that take most of the time.  You can write two versions of 
the same function, and do some careful timings to decide which one to use.

Next, some of those functions may be useful in the next program you 
write.  If you "reuse" the code by copy & paste, and find a problem in 
the new one, it's quite possible that the same problem may exist in your 
first program.  it's easier to bring those changes back if they're in a 
function than if they're in lines 14 through 71.

Finally, some of that reusable code may be worth moving to an external 
file, called a module.  Then the same copy can be literally shared 
between multiple projects.  This is how libraries were born, and you can 
write your own, eventually.

there are many other reasons, but some of them might not make sense to 
you yet.


How do you break it up?

First, separate the classic parts that most scripts will have.  Put the 
imports at the top, along with a comment describing the whole progfram's 
purpose.  Next put the global variables, which should be few.  If there 
are any constants, use all UPPERCASE for their names.

Next, put the function and class definitions.  Notice that none of them 
will be called yet, so the order of execution isn't important to the 
compiler.  Each function needs a name, and you should use a name that 
makes sense to you.  Try to write functions that work at a single level 
of complexity, and do one complete operation.  Try not to do 
input/output in the same functions that do the computation.

And finally, put the actual mainline.  It could be as simple as a call 
to main(), but it may make more sense to you to put the calls to 
argument processing here, rather than in a main function.  By arguments 
here, i'm referring to the stuff you typed on the command line when youi 
invoked the script.  This part of the code is where you do the magic 
incantation:

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main()



When the number of functions gets unwieldy, it's time to move some of 
them to a new file.  They should be related, and should work at the same 
level of complexity.  And the file name should remind you of their 
purpose.  At that point, you add an import of that file to your main 
source script.  Congratulations, you've created a module.

One catch with writing a lengthy reply is that others have already given 
you good feedback.  Hopefully, mine will complement theirs.

-- 

DaveA



From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 17:53:15 2011
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
Message-ID: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

fun programing exercise. Write a function ?latitude-longitude-
decimalize?.

It should take a string like this: ?"37?26?36.42?N 06?15?14.28?W"?.
The return value should be a pair of numbers, like this: ?[37.44345
-6.25396]?.

Feel free to use perl, python, ruby, lisp, etc. I'll post a emacs lisp
solution in a couple of days.

 Xah


From colinh at somewhere.invalid  Tue Nov 29 18:08:30 2011
From: colinh at somewhere.invalid (Colin Higwell)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:08:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.3136.1322603871.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jb3ole$euh$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:57:18 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 03:06 PM, Colin Higwell wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few
>> hours), so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you
>> call them scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the
>> results intended.
>>
>> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the
>> beginning and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note
>> that it seems to be quite common to have a function main() at the start
>> (which in turn calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call
>> main() to do the work.
>>
>> Is that standard best practice?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
> Welcome to Python, and to the comp.lang.python list. Is this your first
> experience programming?
> 
> Yes, factoring your code from "monolithic" to "modular' (several
> functions, or even functions and classes), is good practice.
> 
> That's not to say that some problems don't deserve a monolithic answer,
> but if you're a beginner, i'd like to see you get into a modular habit.
> 
> You can use the words script and program pretty much interchangeably.
> in some contexts, each has additional connotations.  For example,
> somebody used to a compiled language may refer to a python source file
> as a script, implying it's not as sophisticated as his own product.
> But, closer to home, we usually refer to the file you directly pass to
> the interpreter as a script, and any added files that get imported, as
> modules, or libraries.
> 
> Other times, people will refer to a simple program as a script, implying
> that all it does is invoke some standard library functions, or even run
> some external programs.  But when it gets more complex, it gradually
> turns into a  "real program."
> 
> 
> Why break up a monolith?
> 
> Several reasons.  If you factor the code into independent functions, and
> give them good names, then each piece of the program is easier to
> understand.  You will especially appreciate that if you come back to the
> code after doing something else for two weeks.  Similarly if somebody
> else has to take over your code, or maybe adapt it to a slightly
> different purpose.
> 
> Next, if it doesn't quite work, you can exercise the individual pieces
> independently, and narrow down the problem more quickly.
> 
> Next, if the progfram is slow, usually you can narrow it down to a few
> key functions that take most of the time.  You can write two versions of
> the same function, and do some careful timings to decide which one to
> use.
> 
> Next, some of those functions may be useful in the next program you
> write.  If you "reuse" the code by copy & paste, and find a problem in
> the new one, it's quite possible that the same problem may exist in your
> first program.  it's easier to bring those changes back if they're in a
> function than if they're in lines 14 through 71.
> 
> Finally, some of that reusable code may be worth moving to an external
> file, called a module.  Then the same copy can be literally shared
> between multiple projects.  This is how libraries were born, and you can
> write your own, eventually.
> 
> there are many other reasons, but some of them might not make sense to
> you yet.
> 
> 
> How do you break it up?
> 
> First, separate the classic parts that most scripts will have.  Put the
> imports at the top, along with a comment describing the whole progfram's
> purpose.  Next put the global variables, which should be few.  If there
> are any constants, use all UPPERCASE for their names.
> 
> Next, put the function and class definitions.  Notice that none of them
> will be called yet, so the order of execution isn't important to the
> compiler.  Each function needs a name, and you should use a name that
> makes sense to you.  Try to write functions that work at a single level
> of complexity, and do one complete operation.  Try not to do
> input/output in the same functions that do the computation.
> 
> And finally, put the actual mainline.  It could be as simple as a call
> to main(), but it may make more sense to you to put the calls to
> argument processing here, rather than in a main function.  By arguments
> here, i'm referring to the stuff you typed on the command line when youi
> invoked the script.  This part of the code is where you do the magic
> incantation:
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main()
> 
> 
> 
> When the number of functions gets unwieldy, it's time to move some of
> them to a new file.  They should be related, and should work at the same
> level of complexity.  And the file name should remind you of their
> purpose.  At that point, you add an import of that file to your main
> source script.  Congratulations, you've created a module.
> 
> One catch with writing a lengthy reply is that others have already given
> you good feedback.  Hopefully, mine will complement theirs.

Thank you, and thanks also to all the other respondents. I have 
programmed before in a number of other languages, but there is still 
plenty in this thread for me to digest.


From mickyhulse.lists at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 18:29:29 2011
From: mickyhulse.lists at gmail.com (Micky Hulse)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:29:29 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALri7Mng-EXmyWt0pD2OxjorMgy7oLo6zMJa45xOzWxUEgHAnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Last time I did this was using AS3. The format I used was DMS:

GPSLongitude: 122,42,47.79
GPSLongitudeRef: W
GPSLatitude: 45,30,30.390001198897014
GPSLatitudeRef: N

Here's the method:

<https://gist.github.com/1407126>

Not shown in above code: If West longitude or South latitude I would
make that DD (decimal degree) value negative.

Anyway, that was a fun learning experience! :)


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 18:49:18 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:49:18 -0700
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmOYaZW4pT-rH4c0GwwoM8C2wg81OhpoXfTKCvok0djQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Xah Lee <xahlee at gmail.com> wrote:
> fun programing exercise. Write a function ?latitude-longitude-
> decimalize?.
>
> It should take a string like this: ?"37?26?36.42?N 06?15?14.28?W"?.
> The return value should be a pair of numbers, like this: ?[37.44345
> -6.25396]?.
>
> Feel free to use perl, python, ruby, lisp, etc. I'll post a emacs lisp
> solution in a couple of days.

For Python 3:

import re

def latitude_longitude_decimalize(string):
    regex = r"""(\d+)\xb0(\d+)'([\d+.]+)"([NS])\s*(\d+)\xb0(\d+)'([\d+.]+)"([EW])"""
    match = re.match(regex, string)
    if not match:
        raise ValueError("Invalid input string: {0:r}".format(string))
    def decimalize(degrees, minutes, seconds, direction):
        decimal = int(degrees) + int(minutes) / 60 + float(seconds) / 3600
        if direction in 'SW':
            decimal = -decimal
        return decimal
    latitude = decimalize(*match.groups()[:4])
    longitude = decimalize(*match.groups()[4:8])
    return latitude, longitude


From thad at thadlabs.com  Tue Nov 29 18:50:33 2011
From: thad at thadlabs.com (Thad Floryan)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:50:33 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ED56FC9.5020007@thadlabs.com>

On 11/29/2011 2:53 PM, Xah Lee wrote:
> fun programing exercise. Write a function ?latitude-longitude-
> decimalize?.
> 
> It should take a string like this: ?"37?26?36.42?N 06?15?14.28?W"?.
> The return value should be a pair of numbers, like this: ?[37.44345
> -6.25396]?.
> 
> Feel free to use perl, python, ruby, lisp, etc. I'll post a emacs lisp
> solution in a couple of days.

What a waste of time when the following works fine (probably Java):

<http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/DDDMMSS-decimal.html>



From Bruce.Nairn at kingcounty.gov  Tue Nov 29 19:12:54 2011
From: Bruce.Nairn at kingcounty.gov (Nairn, Bruce)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:12:54 -0800
Subject: pythoncom on Windows Server 2008
Message-ID: <D7105BF3D5AC0242BB16D6F3568DFEE206C732E7A1@MBX2.kc.kingcounty.lcl>

Hi,

  I'm trying to move some code to a Windows Server 2008 machine.  It runs on Windows 7 and XP, but fails on Windows Server 2008.  The python installation is seemingly identical (python 2.6.4, 32 bit).  The following replicates the problem:

import pythoncom
IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance ('OPC.Automation', None, pythoncom.CLSCTX_SERVER, pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)

On Windows 7 x64 or Windows XP x32:

this returns an PyIDispatch object

On Windows Server 2008 x64 this gives:

com_error: (-2147221005, 'Invalid class string', None, None)

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Bruce Nairn
King County Wastewater Treatment Division
201 S Jackson St., KSC-NR-0503
Seattle, WA, 98104-3855
206-263-3693
email: bruce.nairn at kingcounty.gov<mailto:bruce.nairn at kingcounty.gov>

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From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Nov 29 19:20:10 2011
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:20:10 +0100
Subject: why is bytearray treated so inefficiently by pickle?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3082.1322446203.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <4ed24a33$0$6869$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.3082.1322446203.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed576bb$0$6908$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 28-11-2011 3:09, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Possibly. The two developers listed as particularly interested in pickle are
> 'alexandre.vassalotti,pitrou' (antoine), so if you do open a tracker issue, add them as
> nosy.
> 
> Take a look at http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3154/
> by Antoine Pitrou or forwary your message to him.
> 

Created a bug report + patches, http://bugs.python.org/issue13503
I've read the PEP, thanks, it was interesting. But I don't think my changes require a
new pickle protocol version bump.

Irmen


From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 19:34:23 2011
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:34:23 +1100
Subject: pythoncom on Windows Server 2008
In-Reply-To: <D7105BF3D5AC0242BB16D6F3568DFEE206C732E7A1@MBX2.kc.kingcounty.lcl>
References: <D7105BF3D5AC0242BB16D6F3568DFEE206C732E7A1@MBX2.kc.kingcounty.lcl>
Message-ID: <4ED57A0F.6080805@gmail.com>

On 30/11/2011 11:12 AM, Nairn, Bruce wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I?m trying to move some code to a Windows Server 2008 machine. It runs
> on Windows 7 and XP, but fails on Windows Server 2008. The python
> installation is seemingly identical (python 2.6.4, 32 bit). The
> following replicates the problem:
>
> import pythoncom
>
> IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance (?OPC.Automation?, None,
> pythoncom.CLSCTX_SERVER, pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
>
> On Windows 7 x64 or Windows XP x32:
>
> this returns an PyIDispatch object
>
> On Windows Server 2008 x64 this gives:
>
> com_error: (-2147221005, ?Invalid class string?, None, None)
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated!

The OPC.Automation object isn't installed on the Server 2008 box.  I'm 
not sure what this object is so can't advise on how to install it.  Note 
also that you will need the same "bittedness" of the object as Python 
itself has - ie, assuming a 32bit Python, you need the 32bit 
implementation of the COM object, or if a 64bit Python, you need the 
64bit COM object.  Note that both the 32 and 64bit versions of both will 
work fine on a 64bit version of Windows - you just need to make sure 
they match.

Mark


From jurgenex at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 29 20:14:23 2011
From: jurgenex at hotmail.com (Jürgen Exner)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:14:23 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<4ED56FC9.5020007@thadlabs.com>
Message-ID: <nq0bd71o9npm5ts9re3p77fq1jsgccbjou@4ax.com>

Thad Floryan <thad at thadlabs.com> wrote:
>On 11/29/2011 2:53 PM, Xah Lee wrote:

Please do not reply to the eternal troll

Thanks

jue


From thad at thadlabs.com  Tue Nov 29 21:10:17 2011
From: thad at thadlabs.com (Thad Floryan)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:10:17 -0800
Subject: Programing Language: latitude-longitude-decimalize
In-Reply-To: <nq0bd71o9npm5ts9re3p77fq1jsgccbjou@4ax.com>
References: <a601dea8-c143-4f69-8664-88000340f5af@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<4ED56FC9.5020007@thadlabs.com>
	<nq0bd71o9npm5ts9re3p77fq1jsgccbjou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4ED59089.4000101@thadlabs.com>

On 11/29/2011 5:14 PM, J?rgen Exner wrote:
> Thad Floryan <thad at thadlabs.com> wrote:
>> On 11/29/2011 2:53 PM, Xah Lee wrote:
> 
> Please do not reply to the eternal troll
> 
> Thanks

Mea culpa, you're correct.  I responded only because the subject
is something with which I'm familiar, e.g., one of my posts from
1988 (23 years ago):

<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/d6c891302914fd84>
and
<http://groups.google.co.jp/group/sci.math/msg/d6c891302914fd84>

:-)


From iamforufriends at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 21:42:22 2011
From: iamforufriends at gmail.com (sweet girl)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:42:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: This girl want a boy friend for dating
Message-ID: <aab8efd4-9201-4c51-b02d-1afb9eded100@by4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This girl want a boy friend for dating


http://goo.gl/vPGGP

http://goo.gl/vPGGP

http://goo.gl/vPGGP

http://goo.gl/vPGGP


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Nov 29 22:30:38 2011
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:30:38 +1100
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20111130033038.GA19431@cskk.homeip.net>

On 29Nov2011 13:37, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
| On 11/28/11 06:27, Robert Kern wrote:
[...]
| >I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for
| >Y/N answers, too. It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some
| >questions requiring an enter and some not. It can be
| >unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.
| 
| After playing with it, allowing for a default Y/N value seems to
| make it a one-key selection via <enter>, but allow for
| less-surprising behavior as you detail.

As a matter of good practice, I like default responses (especially
yes/no ones) to default to the safer/more-conservative choice, and
generally to default to "no", with the question suitably framed so that
"no" means "safer/more-conservative".

In this way an accidental unthinking <enter> has less chance of doing
damage. What that means depends on context, but I hope you take the point.

(Oh yes, traditionally the default is also capitalised to be evident.)

Example:

  Remove your database now? (y/N)

I would want <enter> to mean "no" here, usually.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

There are old climbers, and there are bold climbers; but there are no old
bold climbers.


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Subject: XXX HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
Message-ID: <6118c841-8e22-4601-9102-bdac88037cac@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 23:49:29 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:49:29 +1100
Subject: Converting MS Access DB to Postgres or MySQL for ORM support with
	SQLalchemy
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGc15iMCYD7gx1eHHmZh0i0P1fRDTqHAVPHv6RpQW1yvtg@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon,

I was recently shown that my client runs MS Access everywhere, rather
than a "real" database. There are many features they would be missing
that something like a django frontend would provide.

So I would like to move them to Postgres or MySQL (since MS Access
support was been dropped after 0.4).

But I would also like to move there schema &etc to ORM, for easy
editing with SQLalchemy (or similar).

What approach would you recommend?

Thanks for all suggestions,

Alec Taylor


From guojunquan at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 01:20:30 2011
From: guojunquan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6YOt5Yab5p2D?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:20:30 +0800
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
Message-ID: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Good after
    I have a string  liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert
it to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
Thanks.


-- 
???
???????????????
guojunquan{at}gmail.com
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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 01:24:59 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:24:59 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGdrhgirPyH_KsGuB8_RpixXDk_NNAD-7Va4_mdtW8gAbQ@mail.gmail.com>

import json

s = json.dumps([1, 2, 3, 4])
# '[1, 2, 3, 4]'
l = json.loads(s)
# [1, 2, 3, 4]

2011/11/30 ??? <guojunquan at gmail.com>:
> Good after
>     I have a string  liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert
> it to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> ???
> ???????????????
> guojunquan{at}gmail.com
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 01:54:22 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:54:22 -0500
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
> Good after
> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?

The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
 >>> eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']

But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is 
that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised 
as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would 
not want to eval
   "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your 
operating system.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 02:09:48 2011
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:09:48 +0000
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1b4hAk10D3-UL3X0zkTQ+xZzkDp2a-Ww2kEwvwagz3vgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 30, 2011 6:21 AM, "???" <guojunquan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good after
>     I have a string  liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need
convert it to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
> Thanks.
>

Look up the json module.

-- 
Arnaud
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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 02:23:08 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:23:08 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6cK1b4hAk10D3-UL3X0zkTQ+xZzkDp2a-Ww2kEwvwagz3vgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ6cK1b4hAk10D3-UL3X0zkTQ+xZzkDp2a-Ww2kEwvwagz3vgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGfEc7=tnkiDhFkbKT0kfutQ6sGPh3QKCxhptdqZAM+OAA@mail.gmail.com>

Arnaud: Already showed that solution

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 30, 2011 6:21 AM, "???" <guojunquan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good after
>> ? ? I have a string ?liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert
>> it to a list like list =?["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> Look up the json module.
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com  Wed Nov 30 03:50:19 2011
From: Shambhu.Rajak at kpitcummins.com (Shambhu Rajak)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:50:19 +0000
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CAB10@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>

Collins Congratulations for your first step into Python Programming.
You can call them script or programs(not necessarily but depends on what your coding for).
Yaa..it's always a good practice to call it through main(), but it doesn't really matter you 
can call the method in way....  

Regards,
Shambhu

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Higwell [mailto:colinh at somewhere.invalid] 
Sent: 30/11/2011 1:37 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice

Hi,

I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours), 
so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them 
scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results 
intended.

However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning 
and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems 
to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn 
calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the 
work. 

Is that standard best practice?

Thanks





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 03:58:08 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:58:08 +0100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
>> Good after
>> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
>> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
> 
> The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
>  >>> eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
> 
> But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is
> that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised
> as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would
> not want to eval
>    "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
> where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your
> operating system.

You can avoid these problems with ast.literal_eval():

literal_eval(node_or_string)
    Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
    expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the
    following Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists,
    dicts, booleans, and None.




From jasonveldicott at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 04:34:23 2011
From: jasonveldicott at gmail.com (Jason Veldicott)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:34:23 +1100
Subject: Debug python from DLL callback?
Message-ID: <CAK4NeTHE57nj_Ui-pAe_4KW+21v_vEh00+tixwURybsWiRw21A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone here might be able to suggest if there is a way of
switching over from python execution into debug mode of an IDE, from python
code that is executed as a callback from a C++ DLL?

Thanks

Jason
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From fabiofz at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 04:48:19 2011
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:48:19 -0200
Subject: Debug python from DLL callback?
In-Reply-To: <CAK4NeTHE57nj_Ui-pAe_4KW+21v_vEh00+tixwURybsWiRw21A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK4NeTHE57nj_Ui-pAe_4KW+21v_vEh00+tixwURybsWiRw21A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANXBEFrKCmu5TfB8zCny71jrU0rtpAXymYq287z4Ji9WZ-0VKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Jason Veldicott
<jasonveldicott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if anyone here might be able to suggest if there is a way of
> switching over from python execution into debug mode of an IDE, from python
> code that is executed as a callback from a C++ DLL?
>

Use a remote debugger: http://pydev.org/manual_adv_remote_debugger.html

Cheers,

Fabio


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 05:05:52 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:05:52 +0000
Subject: cmd.Cmd asking questions?
In-Reply-To: <20111130033038.GA19431@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <4ED53496.6070408@tim.thechases.com>
	<20111130033038.GA19431@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <jb4v61$dtu$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/11 3:30 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 29Nov2011 13:37, Tim Chase<python.list at tim.thechases.com>  wrote:
> | On 11/28/11 06:27, Robert Kern wrote:
> [...]
> |>I actually have a preference for needing to press enter for
> |>Y/N answers, too. It's distinctly *less* uniform to have some
> |>questions requiring an enter and some not. It can be
> |>unpleasantly surprising to the user, too.
> |
> | After playing with it, allowing for a default Y/N value seems to
> | make it a one-key selection via<enter>, but allow for
> | less-surprising behavior as you detail.
>
> As a matter of good practice, I like default responses (especially
> yes/no ones) to default to the safer/more-conservative choice, and
> generally to default to "no", with the question suitably framed so that
> "no" means "safer/more-conservative".
>
> In this way an accidental unthinking<enter>  has less chance of doing
> damage. What that means depends on context, but I hope you take the point.
>
> (Oh yes, traditionally the default is also capitalised to be evident.)
>
> Example:
>
>    Remove your database now? (y/N)
>
> I would want<enter>  to mean "no" here, usually.

I would also add that if you can, try to make it such that the user can go back 
and change their mind before actually doing anything. In the "wizard" scenario 
that the OP describes, it is frequently the case that you are going to ask a 
number of questions first before actually doing anything rather than doing 
something after each question. I don't think that letting the user go back a 
previous question is particularly common, and every interface for it that I can 
think of off the top of my head seems awkward, but I think it deserves some 
thought. At the very least, what you can do is collect all of the answers, show 
them to the user at the end and ask if there is anything the user wants to 
change before continuing.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From ben.richardson at gmx.com  Wed Nov 30 05:42:26 2011
From: ben.richardson at gmx.com (Ben Richardson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:42:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python crashes on segmentation error
Message-ID: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

Python crashes every time i run the following command?

>>> import cv
Segmentation fault: 11

Python quit unexpectedly - any help would be greatly appreciated -
thankyou in advance :)

Here is crash report?


Process:         Python [276]
Path:            /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
Identifier:      Python
Version:         ??? (???)
Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  bash [271]

Date/Time:       2011-11-30 21:40:17.798 +1100
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.7.2 (11C74)
Report Version:  9

Interval Since Last Report:          34062 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:           3
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   3
Anonymous UUID:                      559858AC-B741-4FB9-842D-
C0E1D157BDFF

Crashed Thread:  0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000000

VM Regions Near 0:
-->
    __TEXT                 0000000100000000-0000000100001000 [    4K]
r-x/rwx SM=COW  /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python

Application Specific Information:
objc[276]: garbage collection is OFF

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   ???                           	000000000000000000 0 + 0
1   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7885 PyImport_Import
+ 121
2   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7a1e
PyImport_ImportModule + 32
3   cv.so                         	0x00000001004f5082 initcv + 18
4   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dc071
_PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 177
5   org.python.python             	0x00000001000da33f import_submodule
+ 383
6   org.python.python             	0x00000001000da84a load_next + 234
7   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dab5b
PyImport_ImportModuleLevel + 363
8   org.python.python             	0x00000001000b9483
builtin___import__ + 131
9   org.python.python             	0x000000010000c5e2 PyObject_Call +
98
10  org.python.python             	0x00000001000ba5f7
PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords + 87
11  org.python.python             	0x00000001000bec78
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 13256
12  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2d29
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 2137
13  org.python.python             	0x00000001000c2e46 PyEval_EvalCode
+ 54
14  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e769c
PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags + 380
15  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e78fe
PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags + 78
16  org.python.python             	0x00000001000e80e1
PyRun_AnyFileExFlags + 161
17  org.python.python             	0x00000001000fe77c Py_Main + 2940
18  org.python.python             	0x0000000100000f14 0x100000000 +
3860

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):
  rax: 0x0000000100781870  rbx: 0x00000001019b3030  rcx:
0x00007fff5fbfe968  rdx: 0x0000000000000000
  rdi: 0x0000000000000000  rsi: 0x00000001006f5ebc  rbp:
0x00007fff5fbfea60  rsp: 0x00007fff5fbfea58
   r8: 0x0800000000000100   r9: 0x2000000000000200  r10:
0x0000000000000000  r11: 0x00000001019b6054
  r12: 0x0000000000000000  r13: 0x0000000000000000  r14:
0x00000001019b3030  r15: 0x00007fff5fbfeb80
  rip: 0x0000000000000000  rfl: 0x0000000000010206  cr2:
0x0000000000000000
Logical CPU: 1

Binary Images:
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<C34F6D88-187F-33DC-8A68-C0C9D1FA36DF> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/
libBLAS.dylib
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com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore (960.18 - 960.18)
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CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/
Versions/A/CarbonCore
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<4F2E1055-2207-340B-BB45-E4F16171EE0D> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/
libLAPACK.dylib
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system/libsystem_c.dylib
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(2.1 - 71) <2ADD7C5B-C8C8-3CA8-8A5C-8FB1C7F6A549> /System/Library/
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CoreSymbolication
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com.apple.ApplicationServices.ATS (317.5.0 - ???)
<FE629F2D-6BC0-3A58-9844-D8B9A6808A00> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/
Versions/A/ATS
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(1.600.0 - ???) <A9F2451E-6F60-350E-A6E5-539669B53074> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics
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libstdc++.6.dylib
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Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Carbon
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(41 - 41) <03F3FA8F-8D2A-3AB6-A8E3-40B001116339> /System/Library/
Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/
ApplicationServices
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Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO
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libsystem_network.dylib
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SystemConfiguration
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Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
ATS.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libFontParser.dylib
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Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
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libsystem_info.dylib
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libc++.1.dylib
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com.apple.speech.synthesis.framework (4.0.74 - 4.0.74)
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ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis
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CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage
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com.apple.TrustEvaluationAgent (2.0 - 1) <1F31CAFF-
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com.apple.ScalableUserInterface (1.0 - 1) <1873D7BE-2272-31A1-8F85-
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    0x7fff92caf000 -     0x7fff92cdcfe7  libSystem.B.dylib (159.1.0 -
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libSystem.B.dylib
    0x7fff92ea3000 -     0x7fff92f47fef  com.apple.ink.framework
(1.3.2 - 110) <F69DBD44-FEC8-3C14-8131-CC0245DBBD42> /System/Library/
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    0x7fff92f48000 -     0x7fff92f6cfff  com.apple.Kerberos (1.0 - 1)
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    0x7fff92f6d000 -     0x7fff92f6efff  libdnsinfo.dylib (395.6.0 -
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    0x7fff92f6f000 -     0x7fff92f8cfff  libPng.dylib (??? - ???)
<3C70A94C-9442-3E11-AF51-C1B0EF81680E> /System/Library/Frameworks/
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    0x7fff92f8d000 -     0x7fff92fb6fff  libJPEG.dylib (??? - ???)
<64D079F9-256A-323B-A837-84628B172F21> /System/Library/Frameworks/
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    0x7fff93022000 -     0x7fff93046ff7  com.apple.RemoteViewServices
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<3C9153A0-8499-3DC0-AAA4-9FA6E488BE13> /System/Library/Frameworks/
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    0x7fff9578d000 -     0x7fff957cefff  com.apple.QD (3.12 - ???)
<4F3C5629-97C7-3E55-AF3C-ACC524929DA2> /System/Library/Frameworks/
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Versions/A/QD
    0x7fff957cf000 -     0x7fff957d4fff  libGIF.dylib (??? - ???)
<393E2DB5-9479-39A6-A75A-B5F20B852532> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/
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    0x7fff957d5000 -     0x7fff957f5fff  libsystem_kernel.dylib
(1699.22.81 - compatibility 1.0.0)
<B9E259FC-73EA-31E3-8E68-7F980DEBA8A6> /usr/lib/system/
libsystem_kernel.dylib
    0x7fff957f6000 -     0x7fff958ebfff  libiconv.2.dylib (7.0.0 -
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    0x7fff95960000 -     0x7fff95961fff  liblangid.dylib (??? - ???)
<CACBE3C3-2F7B-3EED-B50E-EDB73F473B77> /usr/lib/liblangid.dylib
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    0x7fff963d9000 -     0x7fff963f0fff
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<F21C79C0-4B5A-3645-81A6-74F8EFA900CE> /System/Library/
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- ???) <8D14139B-B671-35F4-9E5A-023B4C523C38> /usr/lib/system/
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External Modification Summary:
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  Calls made by this process:
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  Calls made by all processes on this machine:
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    thread_create: 1
    thread_set_state: 0

VM Region Summary:
ReadOnly portion of Libraries: Total=169.5M resident=106.9M(63%)
swapped_out_or_unallocated=62.6M(37%)
Writable regions: Total=19.8M written=2360K(12%) resident=3028K(15%)
swapped_out=0K(0%) unallocated=16.8M(85%)

REGION TYPE                      VIRTUAL
===========                      =======
MALLOC                             10.6M
MALLOC guard page                    16K
STACK GUARD                        56.0M
Stack                              8192K
__CI_BITMAP                          80K
__DATA                             14.2M
__IMAGE                            1256K
__LINKEDIT                         49.4M
__TEXT                            120.0M
__UNICODE                           544K
shared memory                        12K
===========                      =======
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Model: MacBook5,1, BootROM MB51.007D.B03, 2 processors, Intel Core 2
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From pedro.h.souto at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 06:36:15 2011
From: pedro.h.souto at gmail.com (Pedro Henrique G. Souto)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:36:15 -0200
Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
In-Reply-To: <408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CAB10@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>
References: <jb3e06$37h$1@dont-email.me>
	<408F64D89899604FB24015E64E10490C179CAB10@KCHJEXMB02.kpit.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6152F.3020307@gmail.com>

On 30/11/2011 06:50, Shambhu Rajak wrote:
> Collins Congratulations for your first step into Python Programming.
> You can call them script or programs(not necessarily but depends on what your coding for).
> Yaa..it's always a good practice to call it through main(), but it doesn't really matter you
> can call the method in way....
>
> Regards,
> Shambhu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colin Higwell [mailto:colinh at somewhere.invalid]
> Sent: 30/11/2011 1:37 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Total newbie question: Best practice
>
> Hi,
>
> I am just starting to learn Python (I have been at it only a few hours),
> so please bear with me. I have a few very small scripts (do you call them
> scripts or programs?) which work properly, and produce the results
> intended.
>
> However, they are monolithic in nature; i.e. they begin at the beginning
> and finish at the end. Having done a little reading, I note that it seems
> to be quite common to have a function main() at the start (which in turn
> calls other functions as appropriate), and then to call main() to do the
> work.
>
> Is that standard best practice?
>
> Thanks

Congratulations on becoming a Pythonist!

Like Shambhu said, it doesn't matter where do you put the code, but is 
interesting to have a main() function when you have a program, and you 
want to differentiate if it is running directly (i.e. python program.py) 
or if it is running as a  module, imported by other program (i.e. import 
program).

To do so, you do this:

main():
     # blablabla

if __name__ == '__main__':
     main()


If the program is running directly, the variable __name__ will be 
'__main__', if not, __name__ will be the name of the module ('program', 
in this case).

Att;
Pedro


From durumdara at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 07:08:13 2011
From: durumdara at gmail.com (durumdara)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 04:08:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3 - xml - crlf handling problem
Message-ID: <3aae0b18-a194-444f-a2fc-da156204bd95@20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

As I see that XML parsing is "wrong" in Python.

I must use predefined XML files, parsing them, extending them, and
produce some result.

But as I see that in Windows this is working wrong.

When the predefined XMLs are "formatted" (prettied) with CRLFs, then
the parser keeps these plus LF characters (not handle the logic that
CR = LF = CRLF), and it is appearing in the new result too.

    xo = parse('test_original.xml')
    de = xo.documentElement
    de.setAttribute('b', "2")
    b = xo.toxml('utf-8')
    f = open('test_original2.xml', 'wb')
    f.write(b)
    f.close()

And: if I used text elements, this can extend the information with
plus characters and make wrong xml...

I can use only "myowngenerated", and not prettied xmls because of this
problem!

Is this normal?

Thanks for your read:
   dd


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 07:32:39 2011
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:32:39 -0500
Subject: order independent hash?
Message-ID: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>

I like to hash a list of words (actually, the command line args of my program) 
in such a way that different words will create different hash, but not sensitive 
to the order of the words.  Any ideas?



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Nov 30 07:38:14 2011
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:38:14 +0000
Subject: order independent hash?
In-Reply-To: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4ED623B6.602@timgolden.me.uk>

On 30/11/2011 12:32, Neal Becker wrote:
> I like to hash a list of words (actually, the command line args of my program)
> in such a way that different words will create different hash, but not sensitive
> to the order of the words.  Any ideas?

How about?

   hash (frozenset ("hello world".split ()))

TJG


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 07:47:13 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:47:13 +0100
Subject: order independent hash?
References: <jb57p7$b1j$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb58k9$il7$1@dough.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:

> I like to hash a list of words (actually, the command line args of my
> program) in such a way that different words will create different hash,
> but not sensitive to the order of the words.  Any ideas?

You mean a typical python hash value which would be /likely/ to differ for 
different lists and /guaranteed/ to be equal for equal lists is not good 
enough? Because that would be easy:

args = sys.argv[1:]
hash(tuple(sorted(args))) # consider duplicate args
hash(frozenset(args)) # ignore duplicate args



From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Nov 30 07:58:41 2011
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:58:41 +0100
Subject: Python crashes on segmentation error
In-Reply-To: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jb59a1$nic$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 30.11.2011 11:42, schrieb Ben Richardson:
> Python crashes every time i run the following command?
> 
>>>> import cv
> Segmentation fault: 11
> 
> Python quit unexpectedly - any help would be greatly appreciated -
> thankyou in advance :)
> 
> Here is crash report?
[...]
> 
> Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
> 0   ???                           	000000000000000000 0 + 0
> 1   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7885 PyImport_Import
> + 121
> 2   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7a1e
> PyImport_ImportModule + 32
> 3   cv.so                         	0x00000001004f5082 initcv + 18
> 4   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dc071
> _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 177

It looks like you have a faulty 3rd party library with an extension
module called cv.so that is causing the segfault. The segfault occurs
either inside or during the import of the cv module. initcv() is the
init function of the cv module that is called automatically during the
import.

Christian



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Nov 30 08:47:59 2011
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:47:59 +0100
Subject: Python 3 - xml - crlf handling problem
In-Reply-To: <3aae0b18-a194-444f-a2fc-da156204bd95@20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <3aae0b18-a194-444f-a2fc-da156204bd95@20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jb5c6f$dmn$1@dough.gmane.org>

durumdara, 30.11.2011 13:08:
> As I see that XML parsing is "wrong" in Python.

You didn't say what you are using for parsing, but from your example, it 
appears likely that you are using the xml.dom.minidom module.


> I must use predefined XML files, parsing them, extending them, and
> produce some result.
>
> But as I see that in Windows this is working wrong.
>
> When the predefined XMLs are "formatted" (prettied) with CRLFs, then
> the parser keeps these plus LF characters (not handle the logic that
> CR = LF = CRLF), and it is appearing in the new result too.

I assume that you are referring to XML's newline normalisation algorithm? 
That should normally be handled by the parser, which, in the case of 
minidom, is usually expat. And I seriously doubt that expat has a problem 
with something as basic as newline normalisation.

Did you verify that the newlines are really not being converted by the 
parser? From your example, I can only see that you are serialising the XML 
tree back into a file, which may or may not alter the line endings by 
itself. Instead, take a look at the text content in the tree right after 
parsing to see how line endings look at that level.


>      xo = parse('test_original.xml')
>      de = xo.documentElement
>      de.setAttribute('b', "2")
>      b = xo.toxml('utf-8')
>      f = open('test_original2.xml', 'wb')
>      f.write(b)
>      f.close()

This doesn't do any pretty printing, though, in case that's what you were 
really after (which appears likely according to your comments).


> And: if I used text elements, this can extend the information with
> plus characters and make wrong xml...

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence.


> I can use only "myowngenerated", and not prettied xmls because of this
> problem!

Then what is the actual problem? Do you get an error somewhere? And if so, 
could you paste the exact error message and describe what you do to produce 
it? The mere fact that the line endings use the normal platform specific 
representation doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Stefan



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 09:55:10 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting MS Access DB to Postgres or MySQL for ORM support with
	SQLalchemy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7671543.1221.1322664911105.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqny18>

You can read data using win32com (ADODB?) and then write it to the desired database using the right package (psycopg2 ...).

See example for reading data at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2006-March/004420.html


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 09:55:10 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting MS Access DB to Postgres or MySQL for ORM support with
	SQLalchemy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3142.1322628573.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7671543.1221.1322664911105.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqny18>

You can read data using win32com (ADODB?) and then write it to the desired database using the right package (psycopg2 ...).

See example for reading data at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2006-March/004420.html


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 10:19:31 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 02:19:31 +1100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>

Good evening,

I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.

How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
this in C or C++?

Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI

Thanks for all suggestions,

Alec Taylor


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 10:38:58 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Nov 2011 15:38:58 GMT
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
References: <mailman.3160.1322666375.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed64e12$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:19:31 +1100, Alec Taylor wrote:

> Good evening,
> 
> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
> advantages.
> 
> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing this
> in C or C++?
> 
> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png

Care to translate it into English?

Then translate the English into pseudo-code. And the pseudo-code into 
Python. Then, if and only if the Python version is too slow, translate it 
into C. And now you are done!



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 11:00:55 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:00:55 +0100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb5jvc$c3d$1@dough.gmane.org>

Alec Taylor wrote:

> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
> advantages.
> 
> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
> this in C or C++?
> 
> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
> 
> Thanks for all suggestions,

I don't know if that helps you with your project but Python already 
understands some hexavigesimal:

>>> int("fool", 26)
280509




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 11:18:39 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:18:39 -0700
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Good evening,
>
> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>
> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
> this in C or C++?
>
> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>
> Thanks for all suggestions,

So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
are ordered like this?

0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,

0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
...,
9A, 9B, ..., 9P,

A0, A1, ..., A9,
B0, B1, ..., B9,
...,
P0, P1, ..., P9

And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 11:26:53 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 03:26:53 +1100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good evening,
>>
>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>>
>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>> this in C or C++?
>>
>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>
>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>
> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
> are ordered like this?
>
> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>
> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
> ...,
> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>
> A0, A1, ..., A9,
> B0, B1, ..., B9,
> ...,
> P0, P1, ..., P9
>
> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?

To put it simply:

I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
(unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
need to be met)

and I want addition only for incrementing the element.

Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
P0A)

Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Alec Taylor


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 12:08:24 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:08:24 -0500
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <4ed64e12$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.3160.1322666375.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed64e12$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLki7rZYhEp2w5FZcmUX0BHjf6pRBFGsG9Jn1PkZFWOVQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Care to translate it into English?
>
> Then translate the English into pseudo-code. And the pseudo-code into
> Python. Then, if and only if the Python version is too slow, translate it
> into C. And now you are done!

Mathematical English is pseudocode. Related: all theorems are also
programs and vice versa.



That said, I don't understand the notation either. What's \mathbb{M}?
What does it mean ti be "in" some natural number n? (Are you using a
set theoretic definition of natural numbers: e.g. x in y iff x <= y ?)

Devin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:19:31 +1100, Alec Taylor wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
>> advantages.
>>
>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing this
>> in C or C++?
>>
>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>
> Care to translate it into English?
>
> Then translate the English into pseudo-code. And the pseudo-code into
> Python. Then, if and only if the Python version is too slow, translate it
> into C. And now you are done!
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From egg1nog at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 12:10:09 2011
From: egg1nog at gmail.com (Michael Hennebry)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:10:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: tp_new, tp_alloc, tp_init
Message-ID: <f0bb1447-07b2-4f78-a1af-c702ff2ca31a@da3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

I've been reading about writing extension types in C and am rather
fuzzy about the relationship between tp_new, tp_alloc and tp_init.
Most especially, why tp_new? It seems to me that tp_alloc and tp_init
would be sufficient.

Most of my reading has been in the Noddy and Shoddy portions of
docs.python.,org .


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 13:03:35 2011
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:03:35 +0000
Subject: python 2.5 and ast
In-Reply-To: <4ED4E35E.6090405@gmail.com>
References: <4ED37475.3050709@gmail.com> <jb0pnp$a7i$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4ED457C5.2020407@davea.name>
	<mailman.3121.1322560291.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed4c2ce$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4ED4E35E.6090405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED66FF7.1030104@gmail.com>

Another thing about the AST, I am having fun trying to for example list 
out all
the unused imports.

I have already a visitor which works quite nicely I think, but now I 
would like
to get a way to find all the unused imports, so I need more visitors that
find out all the used names.

I didn't find too much documentation about these kind of things, so any
suggestions on how to approach?

Pylint and snakefood have similar code, but they use the old "compiler" 
module,
so it's not really helpful.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 13:38:45 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:38:45 -0700
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkD8J+e8KOCJTRb2rUQBeJ1Yy_e29n5VH8CTxDngQfErw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>>>
>>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>>> this in C or C++?
>>>
>>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>>
>>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>>
>> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
>> are ordered like this?
>>
>> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>>
>> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
>> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
>> ...,
>> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>>
>> A0, A1, ..., A9,
>> B0, B1, ..., B9,
>> ...,
>> P0, P1, ..., P9
>>
>> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?
>
> To put it simply:
>
> I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
> least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
> (unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
> need to be met)
>
> and I want addition only for incrementing the element.
>
> Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
> unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
> P0A)
>
> Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.

Okay, that's much clearer.  If you don't actually care about the
ordinal value of each element, only about incrementing them, then I
suggest implementing increment as follows:

1. Convert the string to an int using the regular base-26 conversion
with the int() built-in.
2. In a loop, add 1 to the value.
3. Convert the value back to a string using the same base-26
conversion.  I don't know of a built-in that does this, so you'll need
to write your own, which isn't too difficult.
4. Check whether the new string meets all your constraints.  If it
does, return it.  If not, go back to 2. and try again with the next
integer.

At most it will take 17 iterations to find a valid value, but most of
the time the first value tried will be valid.

I assume you're already aware that with 3 digits you'll only have
12480 possible unique IDs using this scheme?  It just doesn't seem
like very many to me.

Cheers,
Ian


From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Wed Nov 30 13:55:05 2011
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:55:05 +0100
Subject: How to get a correct entry in the menu for a Python application on
	Mac OS X
Message-ID: <jb5u69$9i9$1@online.de>

Hello,

I am fairly new to Mac OS X and would like to know, what I have to do to 
make my Python application show the correct name in the menu bar. What 
did I do so far. I created an application package containing the .plist 
file with correct entries and a shell script, that starts the correct 
Python interpreter with the the main script. The menu bar just shows 
Python instead of the name of my application. If you are interested the 
application can be found via http://eric-ide.python-projects.org.


Regards,
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 14:00:38 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 06:00:38 +1100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkD8J+e8KOCJTRb2rUQBeJ1Yy_e29n5VH8CTxDngQfErw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkD8J+e8KOCJTRb2rUQBeJ1Yy_e29n5VH8CTxDngQfErw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGcsR4QF26dcGXHfcBib5EPumahUNgdgaa28XO4=Y-88pw@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent, I'll see if I can implement that.

I was thinking more base data-type, but that seems impossible in python.

17 iterations (rarghh!)

But yeah, I'll try that, thanks.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Good evening,
>>>>
>>>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical advantages.
>>>>
>>>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>>>> this in C or C++?
>>>>
>>>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>>>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>>>
>>> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
>>> are ordered like this?
>>>
>>> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>>>
>>> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
>>> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
>>> ...,
>>> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>>>
>>> A0, A1, ..., A9,
>>> B0, B1, ..., B9,
>>> ...,
>>> P0, P1, ..., P9
>>>
>>> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2 digits?
>>
>> To put it simply:
>>
>> I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
>> least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
>> (unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
>> need to be met)
>>
>> and I want addition only for incrementing the element.
>>
>> Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
>> unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
>> P0A)
>>
>> Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.
>
> Okay, that's much clearer. ?If you don't actually care about the
> ordinal value of each element, only about incrementing them, then I
> suggest implementing increment as follows:
>
> 1. Convert the string to an int using the regular base-26 conversion
> with the int() built-in.
> 2. In a loop, add 1 to the value.
> 3. Convert the value back to a string using the same base-26
> conversion. ?I don't know of a built-in that does this, so you'll need
> to write your own, which isn't too difficult.
> 4. Check whether the new string meets all your constraints. ?If it
> does, return it. ?If not, go back to 2. and try again with the next
> integer.
>
> At most it will take 17 iterations to find a valid value, but most of
> the time the first value tried will be valid.
>
> I assume you're already aware that with 3 digits you'll only have
> 12480 possible unique IDs using this scheme? ?It just doesn't seem
> like very many to me.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 30 14:05:50 2011
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:05:50 +0100
Subject: Defining a new base-type in Python based off Hexavigesimal
References: <CAO+9iGctuKsPZzMh+XwDAR=W6=P3nYzQuLZxZkv7_B3sQ9QCUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm6LBDqdUhk7iJiJ+RmV8qesevp0M-NoDhL7SOZskoyGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeVhetnFQ9Mp6z0Ud90esKyaJV2+JxRzmQzpfbh=HvC1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jb5uq4$4gq$1@dough.gmane.org>

Alec Taylor wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>> I have defined a new numbering structure for certain mathematical
>>> advantages.
>>>
>>> How do I implement this in Python, or would I be better off writing
>>> this in C or C++?
>>>
>>> Ultra concise definition: http://i42.tinypic.com/af7w4h.png
>>> LaTeX source: http://pastebin.tlhiv.org/Kf6jPRkI
>>>
>>> Thanks for all suggestions,
>>
>> So if I am understanding your definition correctly your hexavigesimals
>> are ordered like this?
>>
>> 0, 1, ..., 9, A, B, ..., P,
>>
>> 0A, 0B, ..., 0P,
>> 1A, 1B, ..., 1P,
>> ...,
>> 9A, 9B, ..., 9P,
>>
>> A0, A1, ..., A9,
>> B0, B1, ..., B9,
>> ...,
>> P0, P1, ..., P9
>>
>> And that's it, since your constraints preclude anything with more than 2
>> digits?
> 
> To put it simply:
> 
> I want a hexavigesimal of length n where each element contains at
> least one letter {A, B, ..., P} and one number {0, 1, 2, ... }.
> (unless n is less than 2, in which case only one of those constraints
> need to be met)
> 
> and I want addition only for incrementing the element.
> 
> Why do I want all this I hear you ask? - For use as a
> unique-identifier. I want a unique-ID of size 3. (3 positions, i.e.
> P0A)
> 
> Any suggestions on how to implement this in python would be appreciated.

Maybe you don't need a class if you produce the ids with a generator like 
so:

>>> from itertools import product
>>> def hxv(n):
...     letters = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP"
...     digits = "0123456789"
...     both = digits + letters
...     if n == 1:
...         for x in both:
...             yield x
...     else:
...         for x in product(*[both]*n):
...             s = "".join(x)
...             if not s.isdigit() and not s.isalpha():
...                 yield s
...
>>> ids = hxv(3)
>>> next(ids)
'00A'
>>> next(ids)
'00B'
>>> for i, x in enumerate(hxv(3)): pass
...
>>> i, x
(12479, 'PP9')




From nospam at torek.net  Wed Nov 30 14:29:31 2011
From: nospam at torek.net (Chris Torek)
Date: 30 Nov 2011 19:29:31 GMT
Subject: Py2.7/FreeBSD: maximum number of open files
References: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C264772@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<j9rl5k$5i1$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D42D0C26485F@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
	<mailman.2711.1321299276.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jb606r0fpk@news2.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.2711.1321299276.27778.python-list at python.org>
Christian Heimes  <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
>Am 14.11.2011 19:28, schrieb Tobias Oberstein:
>> Thanks! This is probably the most practical option I can go.
>> 
>> I've just tested: the backported new IO on Python 2.7 will indeed
>> open >32k files on FreeBSD. It also creates the files much faster.
>> The old, non-monkey-patched version was getting slower and
>> slower as more files were opened/created ..
>
>I wonder what's causing the O(n^2) behavior. Is it the old file type or
>BSD's fopen() fault?

It is code in libc.  My old stdio (still in use on FreeBSD) was
never designed to be used in situations with more than roughly 256
file descriptors -- hence the "short" in the file number field.
(The OS used to be full of other places that kept the maximum
allowable file descriptor fairly small, such as the on-stack copies
of fd_set objects in select() calls.)

You will want to redesign the code that finds or creates a free
"FILE" object, and probably some of the things that work with
line-buffered FILEs (specifically calls to _fwalk() when reading
from a line-buffered stream).
-- 
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
Intel require I note that my opinions are not those of WRS or Intel
Salt Lake City, UT, USA (40?39.22'N, 111?50.29'W)  +1 801 277 2603
email: gmail (figure it out)      http://web.torek.net/torek/index.html


From tdldev at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 15:30:48 2011
From: tdldev at gmail.com (Verde Denim)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:30:48 -0500
Subject: Py and SQL
Message-ID: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>

All
I have a sql script that I've included in a simple Py file that gives an
error in the SQL. The problem is that the SQL code executes correctly in a
database IDE environment (in this case ora developer). So, I'm concluding
that I'm doing something amiss in the Py code. Does anyone see why this
code would return a 'missing expression' sql error?
Essentially, the code should start, ask for a privilege, and then collect
the priv, role, and user data. Any input is appreciated.

#!/bin/bash
import time
import cx_Oracle

dbConn = cx_Oracle.connect('juser', 'pass', '1.2.3.4:/orcl:DEDICATED',
             cclass = "ABC", purity = cx_Oracle.ATTR_PURITY_SELF)

pStart = time.time()

dbVersion = dbConn.version.split(".")

majVer = dbVersion[0]

print "Oracle Version: %s" %(majVer)
print "Full Version: %s" %(dbConn.version)

dbCursor1 = dbConn.cursor()
dbCursor1.execute('select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles and
Users" from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map where name
like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select granted_role p, grantee c
from dba_role_privs union select privilege p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs)
start with p is null connect by p = prior c')
dbRowResult = dbCursor1.fetchall()
for dbRow in dbRowResult:
    print dbRow

dbCursor1.close()

pElapsed = (time.time() - pStart)

print pElapsed, " seconds"

dbConn.close()
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From rodperson at rodperson.com  Wed Nov 30 15:37:44 2011
From: rodperson at rodperson.com (Rod Person)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:37:44 -0500
Subject: Py and SQL
In-Reply-To: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111130153744.0000017c@unknown>

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:30:48 -0500
Verde Denim <tdldev at gmail.com> wrote:

> All
> I have a sql script that I've included in a simple Py file that gives
> an error in the SQL. The problem is that the SQL code executes
> correctly in a database IDE environment (in this case ora developer).
> So, I'm concluding that I'm doing something amiss in the Py code.
> Does anyone see why this code would return a 'missing expression' sql
> error? Essentially, the code should start, ask for a privilege, and
> then collect the priv, role, and user data. Any input is appreciated.
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> import time
> import cx_Oracle
> 
> dbConn = cx_Oracle.connect('juser', 'pass', '1.2.3.4:/orcl:DEDICATED',
>              cclass = "ABC", purity = cx_Oracle.ATTR_PURITY_SELF)
> 
> pStart = time.time()
> 
> dbVersion = dbConn.version.split(".")
> 
> majVer = dbVersion[0]
> 
> print "Oracle Version: %s" %(majVer)
> print "Full Version: %s" %(dbConn.version)
> 
> dbCursor1 = dbConn.cursor()
> dbCursor1.execute('select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles
> and Users" from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map
> where name like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select
> granted_role p, grantee c from dba_role_privs union select privilege
> p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs) start with p is null connect by p =
> prior c') dbRowResult = dbCursor1.fetchall()
> for dbRow in dbRowResult:
>     print dbRow
> 

Try changing the wrapping ' ' to " " and the inside double qoutes to
single, like this

dbCursor1.execute("select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c 'Privilege, Roles
and Users' from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map
where name like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select
granted_role p, grantee c from dba_role_privs union select privilege
p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs) start with p is null connect by p =
prior c")


-- 
Rod
The club is like groceries, and I jus bag a bi@$&!
? Santonio Holmes on the Twitter


From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:03:22 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:03:22 -0600
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
Message-ID: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>

I've done some research, but I'm not sure what's most appropriate for my
situation. What I want to do is have a long running process that spawns
processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates
with them. The children can be spawned at any time and communicate at
any time. Being able to communicate with non-local processes would be
nice, but is not necessary. The implementation needs to be
cross-platform, but child processes will use the same OS as the parent
during runtime.
I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
just strings or possibly tuples/lists. I'd rather not go outside the
standard library (but I'd consider it). I don't need to worry about
compatibility with older Python versions; if it only works with Python
3.2, that's not a problem.
I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.

-- 
CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:22:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3519788.203.1322688146008.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqfv40>

There are two different problems. One is the medium to pass messages, sockets are good but there are other options and depends on your requirement you need to pick the best one.
The other is serialization format, here you have marshal, pickle, JSON, XML and more.

For me JSON over sockets works well in the past. It has the nice property that you can read messages without need for a special decoder (like in the case of marshal/pickle).


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:22:25 2011
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3519788.203.1322688146008.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqfv40>

There are two different problems. One is the medium to pass messages, sockets are good but there are other options and depends on your requirement you need to pick the best one.
The other is serialization format, here you have marshal, pickle, JSON, XML and more.

For me JSON over sockets works well in the past. It has the nice property that you can read messages without need for a special decoder (like in the case of marshal/pickle).


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 16:32:31 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:32:31 -0500
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.

Sockets are the only thing that will work without threads on all
platforms. You could also use threads and pipes. (I'm not actually
sure how threads+pipes works, but I'm told that it's a viable
approach).

Usually things are simpler and easier because they wrap all the
cross-platform messiness behind a nice API, and then give you a higher
level protocol for IPC on top of that. Unfortunately, the fewer external
dependencies you have, the more you have to rewrite yourself.

For what it's worth, I wrote something potentially similar using Twisted
and AMP. AMP is an Asynchronous Messaging Protocol: this basically
means that clients and servers can send messages to each other at any
time in any order. Twisted makes sure that the right response gets
associated with the right message. This can be very convenient -- you
might request something from another process, and then to compute its
answer it might ask for some additional information from you, and then
you give it that information, and it sends back the final result.

All the communication is done over TCP, usually using Twisted. So this
does involve bringing in a fairly large dependency. For me, the
tradeoff in programmer productivity was worth it, but of course it
really depends on your situation. A more synchronous protocol might be
more useful to you (although my impression was that perhaps you might
be interested in something like AMP), and synchronous protocols
directly on top of sockets are not so difficult to implement (although
making them work across platforms is still too hard for my taste).

Devin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've done some research, but I'm not sure what's most appropriate for my
> situation. What I want to do is have a long running process that spawns
> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates
> with them. The children can be spawned at any time and communicate at
> any time. Being able to communicate with non-local processes would be
> nice, but is not necessary. The implementation needs to be
> cross-platform, but child processes will use the same OS as the parent
> during runtime.
> I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
> just strings or possibly tuples/lists. I'd rather not go outside the
> standard library (but I'd consider it). I don't need to worry about
> compatibility with older Python versions; if it only works with Python
> 3.2, that's not a problem.
> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.
>
> --
> CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 17:12:10 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/2011 3:58 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
>>> Good after
>>> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
>>> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
>>
>> The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
>>   >>>  eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
>> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
>>
>> But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is
>> that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised
>> as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would
>> not want to eval
>>     "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
>> where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your
>> operating system.
>
> You can avoid these problems with ast.literal_eval():
>
> literal_eval(node_or_string)
>      Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
>      expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the
>      following Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists,
>      dicts, booleans, and None.

I keep forgetting that someone thought to solve the problem of eval 
being both convinient and dangerous. Maybe if I type it once, I will 
remember.
 >>> import ast
 >>> ast.literal_eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']

I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily 
accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:14:57 2011
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:14:57 -0500
Subject: Py and SQL
In-Reply-To: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3cKwzodsPqE-sTh6borkxHccgqdbKMToMrR1CpU4_WdqGmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyYU0sHnFKZM-H=4vOxY5UT9gzY2gR5KTBLVZHUwpm1GTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Verde Denim <tdldev at gmail.com> wrote:

> dbCursor1.execute('select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles and
> Users" from ( select null p, name c from system_privilege_map where name
> like upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select granted_role p, grantee c
> from dba_role_privs union select privilege p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs)
> start with p is null connect by p = prior c')
>

I think this is your problem.  Your string is delimited with single quotes
on the outside ('), but you also have a mix of single and double quotes
inside your string.  If you were to assign this to a variable and print it
out, you would probably see the problem right away.

You have two options.  First, you could flip the outer quotes to double
quotes, then switch all of the quotes inside the string to single quotes (I
think that will work fine in SQL).  Second, you could use a triple-quoted
string by switching the outer quotes to ''' or """.  Doing that would let
you mix whatever kinds of quotes you like inside your string, like this
(untested):

sql = '''select lpad(' ', 2*level) || c "Privilege, Roles and Users" from (
select null p, name c from system_privilege_map where name like
upper(\'%&enter_privliege%\') union select granted_role p, grantee c from
dba_role_privs union select privilege p, grantee c from dba_sys_privs)
start with p is null connect by p = prior c'''

dbCursor1.execute(sql)

Once you do that, I think you will find that the "&enter_priviliege" bit in
your SQL isn't going to do what you want.  I assume you're expecting that
to automatically pop up some sort of dialog box asking the user to enter a
value for that variable?  That isn't going to happen in python.  That's a
function of the database IDE you use.  You'll need to use python to ask the
user for the privilege level, then substitute it into the sql yourself.

-- 
Jerry
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From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:19:39 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:19:39 -0600
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6ABFB.2040808@gmail.com>

On 11/30/2011 3:32 PM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> You could also use threads and pipes. (I'm not actually
> sure how threads+pipes works, but I'm told that it's a viable
> approach).
Sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar with threading (not that I
wouldn't be willing to learn).
Is it even possible to pipe into a running process, though?

> For what it's worth, I wrote something potentially similar using Twisted
> and AMP. AMP is an Asynchronous Messaging Protocol: this basically
> means that clients and servers can send messages to each other at any
> time in any order. Twisted makes sure that the right response gets
> associated with the right message. This can be very convenient -- you
> might request something from another process, and then to compute its
> answer it might ask for some additional information from you, and then
> you give it that information, and it sends back the final result.
> 
> All the communication is done over TCP, usually using Twisted. So this
> does involve bringing in a fairly large dependency.
Sounds like overkill, but I'll take a look.

-- 
CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0


From kuaile.xu at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:24:45 2011
From: kuaile.xu at gmail.com (kuaile xu)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:24:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
Message-ID: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hi:

I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.

I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.

However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.

Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
(AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from struct import *
>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
(9.183549615799121e-41,)
>>>

In addition, there is another field which is a 16-bit fixed point
number. How do I unpack two bytes into a float?

Thank you very much,


From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 30 17:28:15 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:28:15 +0100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed6ae00$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 30-11-11 22:03, Andrew Berg wrote:
> I've done some research, but I'm not sure what's most appropriate for my
> situation. What I want to do is have a long running process that spawns
> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates
> with them. The children can be spawned at any time and communicate at
> any time. Being able to communicate with non-local processes would be
> nice, but is not necessary. The implementation needs to be
> cross-platform, but child processes will use the same OS as the parent
> during runtime.
> I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
> just strings or possibly tuples/lists. I'd rather not go outside the
> standard library (but I'd consider it). I don't need to worry about
> compatibility with older Python versions; if it only works with Python
> 3.2, that's not a problem.
> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.
>

Standard library, local processes: multiprocessing module.

If that doesn't suit your needs, maybe check out Pyro:
http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/

Pyro allows objects to talk to each other over the network, with minimal 
programming effort. You can just use normal Python method calls to call 
objects on other machines (or locally, ofcourse). It's written in 100% 
pure Python and works on Python 2.6 and upwards (including 3.x).

Regards,
Irmen de Jong



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 17:29:12 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:29:12 -0500
Subject: Python crashes on segmentation error
In-Reply-To: <jb59a1$nic$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <8bffed0f-1050-418a-834d-f7060a899ab7@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<jb59a1$nic$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <jb6ans$tg0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 11/30/2011 7:58 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Am 30.11.2011 11:42, schrieb Ben Richardson:
>> Python crashes every time i run the following command?
>>
>>>>> import cv
>> Segmentation fault: 11
>>
>> Python quit unexpectedly - any help would be greatly appreciated -
>> thankyou in advance :)
>>
>> Here is crash report?
> [...]
>>
>> Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
>> 0   ???                           	000000000000000000 0 + 0
>> 1   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7885 PyImport_Import
>> + 121
>> 2   org.python.python             	0x00000001006c7a1e
>> PyImport_ImportModule + 32
>> 3   cv.so                         	0x00000001004f5082 initcv + 18
>> 4   org.python.python             	0x00000001000dc071
>> _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 177
>
> It looks like you have a faulty 3rd party library with an extension
> module called cv.so that is causing the segfault. The segfault occurs
> either inside or during the import of the cv module. initcv() is the
> init function of the cv module that is called automatically during the
> import.

In other words, contact the authors of the cv module. Or perhaps first 
check to make sure that the cv.so build you are running is intended to 
be compatible with the Python build you are running.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 30 17:31:08 2011
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:31:08 +0100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ed6ae00$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.3172.1322687014.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed6ae00$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4ed6aeac$0$6843$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 30-11-11 23:28, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> On 30-11-11 22:03, Andrew Berg wrote:

>> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) and communicates

Oops, missed this on my first read. This rules out my suggestion of Pyro 
because that requires Python on both ends (or Java/.net on the client 
side). Sorry for the noise.

Irmen


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:41:33 2011
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:41:33 -0500
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED6ABFB.2040808@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
	<CABicbJLHtVBwObTkSK_yS9aMZvvdLOAmy-YdMvCJRUhqpwWz5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ED6ABFB.2040808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLLqJaW8wbcPm_pt=b4XnZ8ac_Kj7iM82rNQ4_4qWnvAQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar with threading (not that I
> wouldn't be willing to learn).
> Is it even possible to pipe into a running process, though?

You create the pipe to the process when you start it. e.g.

    subprocess.Popen(['ls', 'foo'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
stdin=subprocess.PIPE)

Irmen de Jong mentions the multiprocessing module, that might be a
better approach. I don't use it for production purposes because it has
bad properties when processes are killed abruptly (it can't tell
necessarily the difference between a truncated message and a normal
message). It doesn't feel safe, you know? (Of course, neither do
threads!)

Devin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/30/2011 3:32 PM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>> You could also use threads and pipes. (I'm not actually
>> sure how threads+pipes works, but I'm told that it's a viable
>> approach).
> Sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar with threading (not that I
> wouldn't be willing to learn).
> Is it even possible to pipe into a running process, though?
>
>> For what it's worth, I wrote something potentially similar using Twisted
>> and AMP. AMP is an Asynchronous Messaging Protocol: this basically
>> means that clients and servers can send messages to each other at any
>> time in any order. Twisted makes sure that the right response gets
>> associated with the right message. This can be very convenient -- you
>> might request something from another process, and then to compute its
>> answer it might ask for some additional information from you, and then
>> you give it that information, and it sends back the final result.
>>
>> All the communication is done over TCP, usually using Twisted. So this
>> does involve bringing in a fairly large dependency.
> Sounds like overkill, but I'll take a look.
>
> --
> CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640 | Thunderbird 7.0
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From hidura at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:48:37 2011
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:48:37 -0400
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Why you don't make this "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',') work for me
El nov 30, 2011 10:16 p.m., "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> escribi?:

> On 11/30/2011 3:58 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
>
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>>  On 11/30/2011 1:20 AM, ??? wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good after
>>>> I have a string liststr = '["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]' ,and I need convert it
>>>> to a list like list = ["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"],what can id do?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The easiest -- and most dangerous -- way is
>>>  >>>  eval('["aaaa","bbbb","ccc"]')
>>> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
>>>
>>> But DO NOT eval unexamined strings from untrusted sources. The reason is
>>> that it is much the same as letting an untrusted person sit unsupervised
>>> as the keyboard of your computer with a command window open. You would
>>> not want to eval
>>>    "from os import system; system('<command to delete files>')"
>>> where '<command...>' is replaced by something obnoxious for your
>>> operating system.
>>>
>>
>> You can avoid these problems with ast.literal_eval():
>>
>> literal_eval(node_or_string)
>>     Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
>>     expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the
>>     following Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists,
>>     dicts, booleans, and None.
>>
>
> I keep forgetting that someone thought to solve the problem of eval being
> both convinient and dangerous. Maybe if I type it once, I will remember.
> >>> import ast
> >>> ast.literal_eval('["aaaa","**bbbb","ccc"]')
> ['aaaa', 'bbbb', 'ccc']
>
> I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
> accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Nov 30 18:02:53 2011
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:02:53 -0800
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
In-Reply-To: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRSnQOTcChg4Fj=-sjgnip9=hvMVhUftFCaCzvMS0dc_iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:24 PM, kuaile xu <kuaile.xu at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
> the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.
>
> I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
> mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.
>
> However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.
>
> Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> (AMD64)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from struct import *
>>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
> (9.183549615799121e-41,)

Floating-point and fixed-point are *separate* number formats with
distinct representations. You cannot expect to correctly (un)pack one
as if it was the other. Similarly, converting between the two formats
can introduce range and/or imprecision error.

C does not have a built-in fixed-point datatype, so the `struct`
module doesn't handle fixed-point numbers directly. You're going to
have to unpack it (or parts of it) as something more raw, and then do
the necessary bit manipulation yourself.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 30 18:12:14 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:12:14 -0500
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6B84E.6080706@udel.edu>



On 11/30/2011 5:48 PM, Hidura wrote:
> Why you don't make this "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',') work for me

Look more carefully. This is not the same as ast.literal_eval().

 >>> "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',')
["'1'", "'2'", "'3'"]  # list of 3-char strings
 >>> ast.literal_eval("['1','2','3']")
['1', '2', '3']  # list of 1-char strings

Even if it were the same, it would be specific to lists of strings and 
would not work for anything else.


From kuaile.xu at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:25:27 2011
From: kuaile.xu at gmail.com (kuaile xu)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:25:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
References: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3181.1322694176.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6628ac4b-f6d2-40b6-b1e6-6b0a4bf4e5e2@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Nov 30, 6:02?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:24 PM, kuaile xu <kuaile... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi:
>
> > I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
> > the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.
>
> > I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
> > mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.
>
> > However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.
>
> > Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> > (AMD64)] on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> from struct import *
> >>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
> > (9.183549615799121e-41,)
>
> Floating-point and fixed-point are *separate* number formats with
> distinct representations. You cannot expect to correctly (un)pack one
> as if it was the other. Similarly, converting between the two formats
> can introduce range and/or imprecision error.
>
> C does not have a built-in fixed-point datatype, so the `struct`
> module doesn't handle fixed-point numbers directly. You're going to
> have to unpack it (or parts of it) as something more raw, and then do
> the necessary bit manipulation yourself.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://rebertia.com
>
>

Thanks a lot.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Nov 30 18:25:46 2011
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:25:46 -0600
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>	<jb69nu$lv6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<CACM+9wF0WHUtRMqB5RXMuu82P8QCZgKN74xvk44vGy6DeLJ2+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ED6BB7A.30809@tim.thechases.com>

On 11/30/11 16:48, Hidura wrote:
> Why you don't make this "['1','2','3']".strip("[]").split(',') work for me

because it breaks on things like

   s = """
     [[1,2,3],42,'''triple the fun!''', "can't touch this, 
eh?",r'"Back\\\slashes?!", she said.', [4,5,6]]
     """

Commas can be embedded in strings, strings can be delimited with 
single, double, or triple quotes, raw strings can be used, more 
than one opening or closing "["/"]" can appear in a row, leading 
or trailing whitespace might throw you off...using 
ast.literal_eval() should just Do the Right Thing?.

-tkc




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:49:52 2011
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:49:52 -0700
Subject: unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
In-Reply-To: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <6b7251ef-3479-412f-8acb-882be1e25633@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=6zZkOAdyGgL4zR2Sn0Amg-3+t3uoM48er845973Rxkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:24 PM, kuaile xu <kuaile.xu at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I am working on a python script that parses mp4 video header. Once of
> the field is a 32-bit fixed-point number.
>
> I know that the four bytes are: 00, 01, 00, 00. I have a third party
> mp4 parsing program which displays this field's value is:1.0.
>
> However, the struct.unpack gets a value of 0.0.
>
> Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> (AMD64)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from struct import *
>>>> unpack('>f', b'\x00\x01\x00\x00')
> (9.183549615799121e-41,)
>>>>

Like Chris said, you can't unpack it as a float.  Assuming that's Q16
fixed-point, what you can do is unpack it as an int and then multiply
by 2.0 ** -16 to get the corresponding float value.  There should be
no loss of precision converting to a float since floats store 52 bits
of precision, but be aware that you could have overflow or loss of
precision when converting in the opposite direction.

> In addition, there is another field which is a 16-bit fixed point
> number. How do I unpack two bytes into a float?

Same as above, just change the multiplier to match the scale.

Cheers,
Ian


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 21:14:26 2011
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 13:14:26 +1100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoiPCqyk3cCymwDT8jMZOd3NnuzA5L47S+8FGx85WOtMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
> processes (that aren't necessarily written in Python) ...
> non-local processes would be nice ...
> The implementation needs to be cross-platform ...
> I don't think I'll ever need to transfer anything complicated or large -
> just strings or possibly tuples/lists.
> I'm thinking sockets, but perhaps there's something simpler/easier.

Definitely sockets, as other posters have said. The only question is,
what encapsulation format (since sockets give just a stream of bytes).
Since you want non-Python processes to be involved, I would be
inclined to avoid using Python's own pickling system; JSON may be
viable, and it's well known so you should be able to find support in
other languages. Alternatively, take a careful look at your dataset
and invent your own system. If your strings will never contain a pipe
character, you could define a tuple/list to be simply pipe-separated
strings; if they'll never contain newlines, you can specify your
protocol to be newline-terminated. For command/response protocols over
TCP/IP, I strongly recommend poking around with existing protocols
such as the email trio (SMTP, POP, and IMAP); there's many good ideas
to be gained from them.

If you can, try to keep your protocol to ASCII text. It makes
debugging far easier, as you can simply point a telnet/mud client at
your server and manually step through things.

Chris Angelico


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 30 22:15:27 2011
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:15:27 -0500
Subject: Clever hack or code abomination?
Message-ID: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>

I need to try a bunch of names in sequence until I find one that works 
(definition of "works" is unimportant).  The algorithm is:

1) Given a base name, "foo", first see if just plain "foo" works.

2) If not, try "foo-1", "foo-2", and so on

3) If you reach "foo-20", give up.

What would you say if you saw this:

for suffix in [''] + [str(i) for i in xrange(-1, -20, -1)]:

It generates the right sequence of strings.  But, if you came upon that 
code, would it make sense to you, or would you spend half the afternoon 
trying to figure out what it did and the other half of the afternoon 
ranting about the deranged lunatic who wrote it?


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 22:38:13 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Dec 2011 03:38:13 GMT
Subject: Clever hack or code abomination?
References: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ed6f6a5$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:15:27 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

> I need to try a bunch of names in sequence until I find one that works
> (definition of "works" is unimportant).  The algorithm is:
> 
> 1) Given a base name, "foo", first see if just plain "foo" works.
> 
> 2) If not, try "foo-1", "foo-2", and so on
> 
> 3) If you reach "foo-20", give up.
> 
> What would you say if you saw this:
> 
> for suffix in [''] + [str(i) for i in xrange(-1, -20, -1)]:
> 
> It generates the right sequence of strings.  But, if you came upon that
> code, would it make sense to you, or would you spend half the afternoon
> trying to figure out what it did and the other half of the afternoon
> ranting about the deranged lunatic who wrote it?

Nah, it's fine. Not exactly the clearest piece of code in the world, but 
hardly worth a rant.

I'd be more likely to write that as:

for suffix in [''] + ["-%d" % i for i in range(1, 21)]:

or if I needed to do it more than once, as a generator:

def suffixes(max=20):
    yield ""
    for i in range(1, max+1):
        yield "-%d" % i



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 22:42:54 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Dec 2011 03:42:54 GMT
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.3175.1322691152.27778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ed6f7be$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
> accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).

+100000



-- 
Steven


From anacrolix at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 22:49:46 2011
From: anacrolix at gmail.com (Matt Joiner)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 14:49:46 +1100
Subject: Clever hack or code abomination?
In-Reply-To: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>
References: <roy-A03C06.22152730112011@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4yi1McpLXp9tqrE1J02VMkC-n0-jxZ4OkSQmKnF5sRGKKDiw@mail.gmail.com>

def possible_names():
    yield "foo"
    for i in range(20):
        yield "foo-" + str(i)

?_?

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> I need to try a bunch of names in sequence until I find one that works
> (definition of "works" is unimportant). ?The algorithm is:
>
> 1) Given a base name, "foo", first see if just plain "foo" works.
>
> 2) If not, try "foo-1", "foo-2", and so on
>
> 3) If you reach "foo-20", give up.
>
> What would you say if you saw this:
>
> for suffix in [''] + [str(i) for i in xrange(-1, -20, -1)]:
>
> It generates the right sequence of strings. ?But, if you came upon that
> code, would it make sense to you, or would you spend half the afternoon
> trying to figure out what it did and the other half of the afternoon
> ranting about the deranged lunatic who wrote it?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Nov 30 23:17:49 2011
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Dec 2011 04:17:49 GMT
Subject: Disable readline
Message-ID: <4ed6ffed$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Is there a way to disable readline support in the interactive interpreter 
at runtime? Either from within an existing session, or when the session 
starts up will do.

I am trying to test the behaviour of some interactive scripts which rely 
on readline. I have work-arounds for missing readline (such as on Windows 
systems) but no way to test them properly on Linux.

If all else fails, are there any traps or pitfalls in installing a second 
Python installation with readline support disabled?

Any other suggestions?


-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Nov 30 23:25:23 2011
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:25:23 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.3175.1322691152.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed6f7be$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87ehwo5364.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> > I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
> > accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).
>
> +100000

You do realise that any vote outside the range ?1 through +1 is invalid,
right? Every person gets a maximum of 1, positive or negative. Outside
that, the vote police come to kick you off the internet.

-- 
 \                             ?Everything is futile.? ?Marvin of Borg |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 23:33:51 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:33:51 +1100
Subject: How convert a list string to a real list
In-Reply-To: <87ehwo5364.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAHbqn4jog2CzT+ahL3XwPZwvAr8eKN3qHsp2yaJk1VYa1157JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<jb4jv2$4nt$1@dough.gmane.org> <jb4r6o$ifb$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.3175.1322691152.27778.python-list@python.org>
	<4ed6f7be$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<87ehwo5364.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGfnuBs1reDnqwAwbfRtyg4i39cWaX9NgBRqrgudz6m+yA@mail.gmail.com>

Dammit, been awake too long researching on the Internet, but I finally
reached the Last Page

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:10 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>> > I think it would be better if safe_eval were available as an easily
>> > accessible builtin and dangerous_eval were tucked away in a module ;-).
>>
>> +100000
>
> You do realise that any vote outside the range -1 through +1 is invalid,
> right? Every person gets a maximum of 1, positive or negative. Outside
> that, the vote police come to kick you off the internet.
>
> --
>  \                             "Everything is futile." --Marvin of Borg |
>  `\                                                                   |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 23:35:22 2011
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:35:22 +1100
Subject: Need some IPC pointers
In-Reply-To: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
References: <4ED69A1A.3080609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGedjezoLExMESbFSzHjwObG3e_vicafaXvOSKL3QBLqcg@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, I'll give you some pointers:

0x3A28213A
0x6339392C
0x7363682E