WxPython versus Tkinter.

Mon Jan 24 23:39:07 EST 2011

Oddly enough, this post STARTED right around the time I joined the list.
(Tkinter: The good, the bad, the ugly) It's been an interesting
metamorphosis to watch as the ranting(rick) started quasi-civil and
"discussionary", then evolved within a matter of weeks to violence and
hyperbole.

A lot of rather hyperbolic comparisons have been drawn (i.e. Nazis,
limitless selfishness, complete idiocy, etc.), but I think I may have one
avoids hyperbole altogether.  This thread is a fast-forwarded, condensed
version of the US political rhetoric as it's evolved over the past 200
years, culminating in today's ridiculous environment in which opposing
opinions can do no better than condemn the entire country (or world in *our*
view) to utter destruction.

And I may add that today's US government, and the arguments upon which it
throws itself, is probably one of the most ineffective in the country's
history (of course this comparison will probably be tossed away as
unrelated, irrelevant, and moronic; doesn't change its uncanny similarity :)
).

In this rendition, however, we have both sides being played by the same
actor (perhaps with 1 or 2 supporting roles).

Two valuable things I have taken away from this extended argument:  1) This
being my first super-high volume mailing list with the occasional
neurotically opinionated poster, MRAB introduced me to Godwin's law for the
first time.  Considering its context, much to my amusement (thank you).  2)
Steven's XKCD comic that I had not seen before.  Also, considering its
context, much to my amusement.

For any comments as to my post's uselessness and my overall idiocy, etc.,
I've provided the below space for you to have as much fun as you'd like.

---------------------------------

---------------------------------

While that may not be enough space, a couple well-placed carriage returns
should do the trick.

I suppose the only reason some people respond is that it's fun to poke the
fire harmlessly and watch small flaming ash go flying everywhere.  The
internet is inflammable after all (how else could it still be here after so
many flame wars?)

Hoping you all have a peaceful night,
Jason

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Stephen Hansen
<me+list/python at ixokai.io>wrote:

> On 1/24/11 2:16 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 3:58 pm, Infinity77 <andrea.gav... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I have been involved in the wxPython development for many years
> >> (mostly on implementation of custom widgets, in the AGW library), and
> >> I share Robin's concerns about this kind of "publicity" given to
> >> wxPython.
> >
> > Who cares what you think about wxPython's publicity. A module was
> > created and put on public display and can be ridiculed or supported by
> > anyone who so desires.
> >
> >> Python comes with TK as a "battery included" UI toolkit. I'm perfectly
> >> fine with this, as I am not going to use it anyway. Whether in the
> >> future TK will be replaced by PyGTK, PyQT, PySide, etc... in the
> >> standard library, it won't make any difference to those aficionados
> >> developers who use wxPython. We'll still download the wxPython
> >> binaries/sources/whatever and use it to develop our own GUIs.
> >
> > Good, and again i cannot stress how little we care about your opinion.
> > Why do we not care. Well because you are looking at this from a
> > wxPython perspective. You are being selfish. We are considering this
> > from a global Python perspective. What is good for Python may not be
> > good for you, in any event, it is for us to decide. You can join our
> > discussion when your perspective changes from "me" to "us". And the
> > "us" is the Python langauge NOT wxPython.
> >
> >
> >> It is very unfortunate that this topic "wxPython vs. Tkinter" has
> >> drifted to another flame war,
> >
> > There is no flame war here
> >
> >> as there is really no point in this kind
> >> of discussion.
> >
> > Says you. but who are you to say what is important to us. Go back to
> > wxPython.
> >
> >> As a general rule, a GUI-newbie should try all the GUI
> >> toolkits out there and settle with the one which looks easier/nicer/
> >> more convenient/more feature rich. As usual, it is a matter of
> >> personal taste.
> >
> > And i agree. I think any sane person could agree also. However you
> > miss the point of this conversation. We are looking at Python from a
> > global perspective. You are limited in your views, and obviously very
> > biased. And i know the real reason you and Robin do not want wxPython
> > in the stdlib. Because you do not want to lose your selfish status
> > within the wxPython community. When wxPython becomes a stdlib module
> > then you will answer directly to Guido and Python-dev. You are not
> > fooling anyone with this grandstanding.
>
> I can't believe I'm actually getting into this, but--
>
> wxPython is open source, and technically anyone has the legal right to
> include it in whatever they want -- but no module goes into stdlib,
> period, without it being donated by its authors for that purpose.
> Period. Python-dev is not so discourteous as to absorb someone elses
> code without their go-ahead (and more then that: they don't generally
> absorb anyone elses code without that person making a _commitment_ to
> supporting it, in the stdlib, for multiple years).
>
> So: no author answers to Guido unless they decide they want to.
>
> Not that I'm suggesting Robin wouldn't go for it if someone with actual
> standing asked: but I'm not suggesting he would, either. I have no idea
> if the stdlib development cycle fits the wxPython one, since wxPython
> tracks wxWidgets releases. (Totally notwithstanding the elephant in the
> room that nothing new is going to go into 2.x at all, and wxPython
> doesn't presently support 3.x.)
>
> Robin actually has an unappealable veto over the whole idea, if he so
> chose to exercise it.
>
> Just thought I'd interject some reality into your delusion that there is
> some Python Kingdom and that King Guido can "decide" all manner of
> things and it'll cause them to happen.
>
> But we've had this conversation before, you and I.
>
> Also, rick != the_community. You don't get to speak for "we".
>
> But we've had that conversation too, you and I.
>
>
> --
>
>   Stephen Hansen
>   ... Also: Ixokai
>   ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
>   ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

-- 
Jason M. Swails
Quantum Theory Project,
University of Florida
Ph.D. Graduate Student
352-392-4032
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