Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!

[Bill Felton]

On Jan 20, 2011, at 10:11 AM, rantingrick wrote:

> On Jan 20, 6:30 am, Bill Felton <subscripti... at cagttraining.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> With some hesitation, I feel a need to jump in here. I'm a complete
>> newbie to Python. I'm still learning the language. And you know
>> what? I've ignored Tkinter.
> 
> Well it is really not a good idea to show your ignorance of a subject
> matter directly before offering your opinion on that same subject
> matter. Most people don't listen to the uninformed. Just FYI. However
> lucky for you i am a fair guy and will give anyone a chance, sometimes
> even two. ;-)
> 

You are too kind. 
Given that the strong implication of your point about 'downfall' was that newcomers would somehow be negatively impacted by Tkinter, I would think you would welcome input from that part of the audience.

>> I quickly discovered the alternatives and am already working with
>> wxPython.
> 
> But is wxPython the correct alternative for you? What is so bad about
> Tkinter exactly?. Why did you choose to skip it? There must be a
> compelling reason. Why did you go out of your way to download another
> GUI library when one exists in the stdlib? These are all good
> questions that demand answers. So far you've offered opinion and no
> facts. You said you ignored Tkinter but you did not explain why. Now
> would be a good time to inject some facts into your argument.

Ah, ah, ah, not appropriate to the point at hand.
This isn't about me, this is about the absurd claim that the inclusion of Tkinter in the Python standard distribution is a 'downfall' point for the language.
I think that point has been disabused, although you may well still be sticking with it.

[snip]

>> [Sure, *they* can see alternatives and evaluate why Tkinter might not
>> be a good choice under conditions x or y or z, but god forbid anyone
>> new to the language should have to confront those issues or be asked
>> to make such a decision. How could we trust those lowly newbies to
>> think *properly* about the issue!
> 
> We can't. Are you actually suggestion that someone with NO experience
> with ANY of the GUI library available somehow has a better insight
> into choosing the best GUI library than someone who (i don't know)
> ACTUALLY HAS USED ALL OF THEM!

Ahs, I see, you have been infected by "the best bug". There is no such thing as 'the best' anything absent the standard that is used to judge.  And multiple standards apply.

> Who's sock puppet are you Bill? Really.
> And if you are not a sock puppet i HOPE you are just trolling because
> this is a bombastic display of ignorance!.

rantingrick, meet mirror, mirror, meet rantingrick.

I can't say I'm surprised to see this kind of response from you, this leap from my post to the assumption that I know nothing about programming or about GUIs.
FWIW, I have 20+ years of experience with Smalltalk and am well aware of GUI issues and the manifold ways in which they must be approached and judged.
Your little 'one size must fit all" attitude is what will be the downfall of Python, or any other language infected with it.  We saw that with Smalltalk and its community, we see it everywhere.

[snip]

> 
> Yes, and you just hit the nail on the the head! Why leave the stdlib
> full of cruft (Tkinter)?

At least two reasons, one big one, one little one.
The little one:  because TKinter provides the base for such things as IDLE, which are a genuine boon to the newcomer.
The big one:  because you have somehow failed to demonstrate that Tkiinter is cruft.  You've demonstrated you don't like it, you've asserted, at great length and in a wide variety of ways and countless posts, that it is cruft, but somehow the proof remains absent.  Yet you whine about others not providing 'FACTS'. 
Why should anyone listen to you on this matter, most especially when you labor under the tedious delusion that there is such a thing as 'the best GUI' without constraint.
Of course, you could always produce one...

> 
>> As one of 'the people' who is presumably the focus of rantingrick's
>> concern, let me assure him Tkinter is a non-issue. MIchael is more
>> in touch with my issues than rr.
> 
> FYI you are NOT one of the people that is the focus of my concern
> because YOU only see the world from a limited viewpoint.

EVERYONE sees the world from a limited viewpoint.  Most of us realize this, and find those of you who don't at least faintly annoying.

<plonk>

cheers,
Bill

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