Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!

[flebber]

On Dec 31, 3:04 pm, Robert <sigz... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-12-30 22:28:39 -0500, rantingrick said:
>
> >  On Dec 30, 8:41�pm, Robert <sigz... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010-12-30 19:46:24 -0500, rantingrick said:
> >> Just to clarify...I like Python. I am learning it at the moment.
>
> > Glad to have you aboard Robert!
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> >>> 3. What is your opinion of Tkinter as to it's usefulness within the
> >>> stdlib?
>
> >> No, I really don't see the need for it to be in the stdlib but that
> >> isn't my call.
>
> > But it is your call Robert. Anyone who writes Python code --whether
> > they be a beginner with no prior programming experience or a fire
> > breathing Python Guru-- has a right to inject their opinion into th
> > community. We really need input from first time users as they carry
> > the very perspective that we have completely lost!
>
> I speak up.  :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> 5. Should Python even have a GUI in the stdlib?
>
> >> I would say "no" but that is my opinion only and it doesn't matter.
> >> Python's domain isn't GUI programming so having it readily available on
> >> the sidelines would be fine for me.
>
> > I agree that Python's domain is not "specifically" GUI programming
> > however to understand why Tkinter and IDLE exists you need to
> > understand what Guido's dream was in the beginning. GvR wanted to
> > bring Programming to everyone (just one of his many heroic goals!). He
> > believed (i think) that GUI programming is very important , and that
> > was 20 years ago!!. So he included Tkinter mainly so new Python
> > programmers could hack away at GUI's with little or no effort. He also
> > created a wonderful IDE for beginners called IDLE. His idea was
> > perfect, however his faith in TclTk was flawed and so we find
> > ourselves in the current situation we have today. With the decay of
> > Tkinter the dream has faded. However we can revive this dream and
> > truly bring Python into the 21st century!
>
> I don't think Tkinter was in there for "large" programming. Tkinter is
> crufty and probably should be moved out. For whipping up quick gui
> things to scratch an itch it is good.
>
> I lurk more on the Tcl side of things. When the mention of "separating"
> Tcl and Tk development, I fall on the side of separating them. Tcl,
> like Python should stand on its own. Widget frameworks are extras to
> me. One way the Tcl community has "stagnated" has been its insistence
> on Tk. There was a wxTcl project...it died. That would have been good
> for the Tcl community. Luckily there is a GTk framework (Gnocl) that is
> really good. But it still doesn't get the props that it deserves. The
> second way the Tcl community irks me is the "not invented here"
> attitude. I like the syntax of Tcl and I like the community. They are
> some good folks. Try asking "I want to build a Nagios clone in Tcl"
> type question and invariably you get "Why? There is already Nagios?".
> That stems from the "glue" language roots I think but to me that is the
> wrong attitude. You want people to take a look at a language (any
> language), you build stuff with it that people want to use. Ruby would
> not be as big as it is if Rails hadn't come along.
>
> Nuff of that...  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> 6. If Python should have a GUI, then what traits would serve our
> >>> community best?
>
> >> This is a good one.
>
> >> It should be:
>
> >> - cross platform
> >> - Pythonic
> >> - as "native" as possible
>
> >> Cross platform and native are hard. Just look at all the work with
> >> PyQt/PySide and wxPython. It took them years to get where they are.
>
> > Hmm, wxPython is starting to look like the answer to all our problems.
> > WxPython already has an IDE so there is no need to rewrite IDLE
> > completely. What do we have to loose by integrating wx into the
> > stdlib, really?
>
> wxPython is really good. The downside is that is shows (or did show)
> its C++ roots.
>
> Nokia is making a run with PySide (their version of the PyQt framework)
> and since it has a company behind it might go pretty far. Qt can be
> used for a lot of problem domains.
>
> Anyway, I wasn't meaning to be rough with you. Just trying to figure
> out where you were coming from. I am acquianted with Kevin Walzer and
> he is a good guy.
>
> --
> Robert

I thank this thread for putting me onto Pyside +1