New Python 3.0 string formatting - really necessary?

[Patrick Mullen]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM, r <rt8396 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed when i mentioned "self" nobody wants to touch that subject.
> There could be many reasons why...
>
> 0.) nobody but the 10 regulars i see here exists
> 1.) nobody cares(doubt it)
> 2.) nobody is brave enough to question it(maybe)
> 3.) most people like to type self over and over again(doubt it)
> 4.) most people here have given up on changing the BDFL's mind about
> it. (good possibility)
> 5.) this is a hot-button topic(no doubt in my mind!)

It's a combination between (4) (5) and (6).  6 being, we have
discussed "self" every week for the past 6 years, it hasn't changed
yet, it's not going away, it's not a trivial "problem", deal with it.

(0) is ridiculous, there are more than 10 respondents to this post alone.
(1) - if nobody cared it wouldn't come up every week, but it's been
discussed so much most are tired of it
(2) - people question it all the time, usually people who are new to
the language but not always.  The discussion generally doesn't amount
to anything
(3) - It's not about wanting to type self over and over again, it's
about being able to start with functions or start with classes, and
easily refactor to the other way when needed; and never having a
chance to wonder where a variable came from.  There are ups and downs
to self, it is generally more work to remove it than it is worth, what
would the gain be?  We'd be trading some ups and downs for some other
ups and downs.  And no, BDFL is not going to bend on self.  He almost
bent on the issue a few weeks ago, but his proposition merely changed
some syntax - self was still there.

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
> We could have waited a few more months or even a few more years with a
> 3.0 release. There is always - I repeat ALWAYS - work to do. For an open
> source project like Python "release early, release often" works better.

Good point, and I agree.  It's too early for people to complain about
python 3 being
slow.  It's also too both too late and too early to complain about
things in python 3
that are thought of as a step backward.  It's too late, because python
3 is out and
it's already been changed!  Things are not going to change back.  Complaints are
a bit useless at this point, except to let off steam.  It's too early,
because without
using python3 in a major project, from the ground up, with the new features,
the benefits or negatives for all of the changes cannot truly be known.