New Python 3.0 string formatting - really necessary?

[Steve Holden]

r wrote:
> On Dec 20, 11:11 pm, walterbyrd <walterb... at iname.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 5:05 pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com>
>>
>>> He got really hung up on the % syntax.
>> I guess it's good to know that there is, at least, one person in the
>> world doesn't like the % formatting. As least the move was not
>> entirely pointless.
>>
>> But, you must admit, of all the things people complain about with
>> Python, the % formatting is probably one of the least common
>> complaints. Complaints about Python's speed seem much more common.
>>
>> Yet, 3.0 makes the speed worse, and "fixes" a non-problem.
>>
>> I can see where the new formatting might be helpful in some cases.
>> But, I am not sure it's worth the cost.
> 
> This all really comes down to the new python users. Yea, i said it.
> Not rabid fanboys like Steven and myself.(i can't speak for walter but
> i think he would agree) Are we going to make sure joe-blow python
> newbie likes the language. And doesn't get turned off and run over to
> ruby or whoever. Like it or not, without newusers python is doomed to
> the same fate as all the other "great" languages who had their 15 mins
> of fame.
> 
> We must proactively seek out the wants of these new users and make
> sure python stays alive. But we also must not sell are pythonic souls

                         that's "our" (possessive), r, not "are" (verb)
> in the process.
> 
> It would be nice to get a vote together and see what does the average
> pythoneer want? What do they like, What do they dislike. What is the
> state of the Python Union? Does anybody know, Does anybody care? I
> think python is slipping away from it's dominate foothold on the
> world. Google's use of python may be the only thing holding this house
> of cards together. Ruby's "hype" is defiantly growing and unless we
> strive for greatness, python may fail. I think ruby may have their act
> together a little better than us right now. And since Ruby is such a
> hodge-podge of different languages, the __init__ hold is there for
> many.
> 
> what does joe-python want???

Don't make the mistake of assuming there is a "Joe Python" whose needs
neatly encapsulate the sum of all Python users' needs. There's plenty of
evidence from this group that different people like, want or need
different things from Python, and attempting to measure user
requirements by democratic means is not likely to produce much useful
information.

There is no such thing as "the average Python programmer": an average
can only be measured for one-dimensional values on some sort of linear
continuum. Python users live in a multi-dimensional space where the
concept of an average has little meaning and less use.

As for your assertion that Google's use of Python may be the only thing
maintaining Python's popularity, it's complete twaddle. Take a look
around at who's involved in using Python. I suspect Industrial Light and
Magic ,may have more Python programmers than Google, who also make
extensive use of Java and one other language (C++?), as well as a bevy
of others as justified by project needs. Rackspace, NASA, Canonical and
many others are keen supporters of the language, and they put their
money where their mouths are by incorporating it into their products.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden        +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
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