[Edu-sig] minimum age to learn python (a.k.a graphical vs text languages)

[kirby urner]

<< questions about others' experience >>

> Is it no big deal either way?
>
>
>                thanks,
>
>                        Brian Blais

Hi Brian --

Lego Mindstorms is popular in my neck of the woods
(Silicon Forest -- Oregon), starting in middle school.
I helped coach a team a few years ago.  There's a
tournament aspect, with the teams coming together
around challenges.  I frankly don't know if nqc is a
permitted option -- it might be.

On the Python side, I volunteered one day a week
for about 8 weeks (then for a 2nd 8 weeks, with another
group), teaching Python in a Portland public school
to 8th graders.  I didn't feel they were floundering or
having any real trouble keeping up.  I wasn't focusing
on robotics or controlling an avatar or anything i.e.
this experience was not designed to feed the
Mindstorms teams.

Given the Mindstorms groups tend to be after school,
staffed by volunteer parents, the students attracted
to them tend to be self selected on the basis of prior
experience, self confidance around programming or
whatever.

My daughter has a kit since Christmas (she's in 7th
grade) but hasn't joined a team because she's protective
of her time, wants to play and do homework.  Plus it's
really only the Sony Aibo she cares about and I've never
been able to afford one (her dad is not a money god
unfortunately).

I haven't pushed hard to teach her Python either, though
I'm hoping she'll guinea pig (or hedge hog) some of my
curriculum materials down the road (we were discussing
that yesterday -- she could start by watching a few of my
screencasts about Python, high rez versions).

I think a typical scenario might be to join a team or
form one, using the usual equipment, including Robolab,
and then finding, within that group, a couple interested
students who might be wanting to try a Linux/Python option.
If you have other parents, they'd be candidate learners.
If you attract some high schoolers, them too.

I think middle school is sort of on the edge of where
you'd start, and it's important to have a dynamic where
the kids step forward at that level, don't feel pressured.
Some type quite well (given all the instant messaging),
others not, and lack of typing skills *is* a barrier to entry.

Depending on the size of your original pool, you may
well catalyze a few promising careers.

The public school I mentioned is currently moving to a
Scratch -> Alice track, still with the Mindstorms robotics
option on the side, as an after school activity.

I just talked to the computer teacher yesterday and he
was reporting some rumor that future versions of Alice will
center around the same Sims as in Sims, which my daughter
plays with *a lot* (we also bought Civ City Rome yesterday,
coincidentally, and she built Rome in a day).

Arthur, a long time member of this list, had many strong
reservations about Alice, which tended to become moot
after Alice stopped being written in Python.  I think he
would have preferred like my Saturday Academy class,
where I also teach Python, but using a very bare bones
mathematical approach, no thick layer of someone else's
design (just IDLE + VPython mostly these days, plus
I admit to pre writing some py files -- we don't reinvent all
of mathematics, me neither).  I get a few middle schoolers
in these classes, but only a couple, and usually already
about two standard deviations in the college level direction.

Kirby