My MVC critique

[James Stroud]

James Stroud wrote:
> scott.w.white at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Looking at different MVC frameworks from many langauges from PHP to
>> Python, I've concluded that the explosion of MVC frameworks is mainly
>> due to undisciplined & unexperienced programmers.
>>
>> Nobody would argue about the separation of the layers because this is
>> not the problem I have with it, if anything most implementations
>> emphasis separation at the wrong places.  The end solutions end up
>> looking very mickey mouse.
>>
>> It's been long asserted starting with Smalltalk there there be a
>> separation of layers with an application starting with the view (what
>> the user sees), the controller (which controls the flow of the
>> application) and the model (the representation of the data).
>>
>> What MVC does not emphasis is the separation of the data access layer,
>> one of the most important pieces of an application.  So what is done
>> with this?  For many the DAL is either encapsulated within the model
>> or some toolkit that generates the SQL for them, this may lead to
>> decreased overall security of a database and inefficient queries.
>>
>> The catalyst for MVC frameworks on the web has been the slew of poorly
>> written applications mostly in PHP & Perl , this has driven many
>> programmers looking for control & consistency.  However this need is
>> short sighted when people find a magical bullet MVC Framework, and do
>> not place emphasis on minimization & reusability of code.  Therefore
>> you end up with the same paradigm as before, just crappy applications
>> separated out into pieces.
>>
>> No doubt there should be separation of layers, but there also has to
>> be a real dialogue about programming as a discipline & science, not as
>> a craft of gluing popsicle sticks together.
>>
>> There should be more discussion of architecture before a project
>> starts and more code reviews and discussions in project teams.  Also
>> one off projects (putting one programming on an island giving them a
>> compiler/interpreter) is a great way to get a crappy application.
>>
>> That being said, I presently don't use one, but I'm still holding out
>> for an MVC framework that works for me and provides me power,
>> flexibility and is well documented.
>>
> 
> Xah, is that you?

Oh, wait...No. Not crossposted. Must be someone else.