pygame and python 2.5

[mensanator at aol.com]

On Feb 11, 5:33?am, Steven D'Aprano
<s... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 01:08:21 -0800, mensana... at aol.com wrote:
> >> An update is in the works for those
> >> using more recent releases,
>
> > That's good news, although the responsible thing
> > to do was not relaease version 2.5 until such issues
> > are resolved.
>
> I realize you're a Windows user, and a Windows user with an AOL email
> address at that,

Now I know what it felt like to be a Shiite
living in Iraq.

> so it may come as a shock to learn that the computer
> industry doesn't start and finish on Windows. I don't see why the needs of
> Windows users like yourself should come ahead of the needs of users on Mac
> OS, Linux, Solaris, etc.
>
> >> but that won't help users who don't have
> >> access to Visual Studio.
>
> > That can be solved by throwing money at the problem.
> > But money doesn't help when the solution is on the
> > far side of the moon.
>
> You're mixing metaphors and I don't understand what you mean.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >> Yes, it's
> >> >> occasionally very frustrating to the rest of us, but that's life.
>
> >> > As the Kurds are well aware.
>
> >> I really don't think you help your argument by trying to draw parallels
> >> between the problems of compiler non-availability and those of a
> >> population subject to random genocide.
>
> > You missed the point of the analogy.
>
> > The US government suggested to the oppressed tribes
> > in Iraq that they should rise up and overthrow
> > Saddam Hussein at the end of the first Gulf War.
> > And what did the US government do when they rose up?
> > Nothing. They were left to twist in the wind.
>
> Both the southern Iraqis (mostly so-called "marsh Arabs" and Shiites) and
> the northern Kurds rose up against Saddam Hussein. After the Kurdish
> rebellion failed, the US and UK belatedly provided them with aid, lots of
> aid, and kept the northern no-fly zone going until it was no longer
> relevant (2003, the second invasion of Iraq).
>
> It was the southern Iraqis who were left to be slaughtered. Although
> technically there was a no-fly zone in the south, it wasn't enforced
> when it really counted -- while the rebellion was in full force, the
> Iraqi government asked the US for permission to fly into the south.
> Permission was given, and the Iraq air force used combat aircraft against
> the rebels. Unlike the Kurds, they got no aid, neither money nor military
> support.
>
> The end result was that the southern Iraqs were hung out to dry, while the
> Kurds ended up a virtually independent state-within-a-state, with their
> own "government", their own army, and US and British aircraft protecting
> them.
>
> >> Try to keep things in perspective, please.
>
> > See if you can see the similarity.
>
> > I buy into Python. I spend a lot of effort
> > developing a math library based on GMPY to use
> > in my research. I discover a bug in GMPY and
> > actually go to a lot of effort and solve it.
>
> Good on you, and I'm not being sarcastic. But do try to keep a bit of
> perspective. Whatever your problem, you're not being bombed or shot.
> Frankly, the fact that you not only came up with the analogy, but continue
> to defend it, suggests an over-active sense of your own entitlement.
>
> > But _I_ can't even use it because I've been
> > left to twist in the wind by the fact that
> > Python 2.5 for Windows was built with an
> > obsolete compiler that's not even available.
> > Luckily, unlike the Kurds, my situation had
> > a happy ending, someone else compiled the fixed
> > GMPY source and made a 2.5 Windows version
> > available. But can anyone say what will happen
> > the next time?
>
> Get yourself a compiler, then you won't be relying on the kindness of
> strangers.
>
> If that's not practical, for whatever reason, then remember: you're
> relying on the kindness of strangers. They don't owe you a thing. If
> anything, you owe them.
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Your efforts would probably be far better spent trying to build a
> >> back-end for mingw or some similar system into Python's development
> >> system, to allow Python for Windows to be built on a regular rather than
> >> a one-off basis using a completely open source tool chain.
>
> > No, as I said elsewhere, I'm not a software developer,
> > I'm an amateur math researcher. My efforts are best spent
> > as an actual end user
>
> If you won't scratch your own itch, don't be surprised if nobody else
> cares enough to scratch it for you.
>
> > to find and report bugs that the
> > developers never see. Remember, a programmer, because he
> > wrote it, only _thinks_ he knows how the program works.
> > Whereas I, the user, _know_ how it works.
>
> Oh wow. That's the most audacious, self-involved and sheer arrogant claim
> I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot of nonsense sprouted by arrogant
> know-nothings with delusions of grandeur. For the sake of your
> credibility, I hope you can support that claim.
>
> [snip]
>
> >> It's much harder than sniping on a newsgroup,
>
> > That figures. You try and contribute and you get
> > accused of being a troll.
>
> "I have a problem. I demand that somebody fix it for me!" is hardly
> contributing.
>
> If you don't have the technical skills to fix it yourself, have you
> considered putting hand in pocket and paying a software developer to do
> it? It might even come out cheaper than buying a commercial compiler, and
> it would help others. That should appeal to somebody as altruistic as you.
>
> > > but you earn rather more kudos.
>
> > Guess what kudos I got for solving the GMPY divm()
> > problem? None. How much effort would it have been
> > to mention my contribution in the source code
> > comments (as was the case for other contributers)?
> > Not that I'm bitter, after all, I'm altruistic.
>
> Naturally.
>
> > By the way, on the sci.math newsgroup I promote
> > Python every chance I get.
>
> That's mighty big of you.
>
> > One fellow thanked me
> > profusely for recommending Python & GMPY and asked
> > for some help with a program he was having problems
> > with. We worked it out fine but his problem made me
> > suspect there may be more bugs in GMPY. What's my
> > motivation for tracking them down?
>
> Because you want the bugs fixed so you can get on with whatever coding you
> want to do.
>
> Because you're altruistic.
>
> Because you want people to know how clever you are.
>
> Are those enough reasons?
>
> --
> Steven