Python advocacy in scientific computation

[Andy Salnikov]

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2875.1141799254.27775.python-list at python.org...
> Andy Salnikov wrote:
>> "Michael Tobis" <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:1141750637.180979.69890 at j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>
>>>When you say "all kinds" of inlined code, do you have any other
>>>examples besides HTML?
>>>
>>
>>   Makefiles is one example. Shell script containing snippet(s) of
>> Python code is another one.
>>
>>   At one time I also tried to make a simple "configuration file"
>> engine based on Python for a big Framework used in one physics lab.
>> Idea was to have a Python extension for that C++ framework and
>> to configure the Framework from Python code, like:
>>
>> # Module means C++ Framework module, not Python
>>
>> Module1.param1 = "a string"
>> Module2.paramX = [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>> # etc., with all Python niceties.
>>
>> People who were using this Framework were all hard-core physicists,
>> some of them knew Fortran, many were exposed to C++. There were
>> few other "languages", some of them home-grown, used for different
>> tasks, but none of these mentioned languages ever placed so much
>> significance on the whitespaces. There were some big surprises for
>> people when they discovered they can't arbitrary indent pieces of
>> the above configuration files because it is all Python code. Add
>> here space/tabs controversy if it is not enough yet to confuse
>> poor physicist fellows :) I think that config file project was killed
>> later in favor of less restrictive format (I left the lab before that,
>> can't say for sure.)
>>
> I just hope this remains a "someone made a poor choice of configuration 
> language and trained the users inadequately" story, and does not 
> transmogrify into a "Python is bad" story.
>
  It does not, and I did not say it's "bad". But people do percieve it
as at least very weird kind of language in a modern times of all the
"curly brace languages".

> You mention makefiles and shell scripts as contexts unsympathetic to 
> Python's indentation requirements, but frankly you don't see much code in 
> any language except shell inlined in these contexts.
>
  Shell's strength is in the process spawning/management and input/output
redirection, Python is rather weak in that area but OTOH Python is
strong in processing highly structured and numeric data, where shells
are really weak. I saw lots of awk or sed "code" embedded in scripts
so your claim that nothing except sheel is being inlined does not look
right to me.

> Given the makefile's requirement that significant leading whitespace be 
> tabs and not spaces and you have a recipe for disaster inlining any 
> language.
>
  I saw makefiles with thousands lines of Perl code in them. I agree this
(Perl) is disaster, but it would probably be better if it was Python code
instead.

  Andy.