merits of Lisp vs Python

[Ken Tilton]

David Lees wrote:
> JShrager at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Okay, since everyone ignored the FAQ, I guess I can too...
>>
>> Mark Tarver wrote:
>>
>>> How do you compare Python to Lisp?  What specific advantages do you
>>> think that one has over the other?
>>
>>
>> (Common) Lisp is the only industrial strength language with both pure
>> compositionality and a real compiler. What Python has is stupid slogans
>> ("It fits your brain." "Only one way to do things.") and an infinite
>> community of flies that, for some inexplicable reason, believe these
>> stupid slogns. These flies are, however, quite useful because they
>> produce infinite numbers of random libraries, some of which end up
>> being useful. But consider: Tcl replaced Csh, Perl replaced Tcl, Python
>> is rapidly replacing Perl, and Ruby is simultaneously and even more
>> rapidly replacing Python. Each is closer to Lisp than the last; the
>> world is returning to Lisp and is dragging the flies with it.
>> Eventually the flies will descend upon Lisp itself and will bring with
>> them their infinite number of random libraries, and then things will be
>> where they should have been 20 years ago, but got sidetracked by Tcl
>> and other line noise.
>>
> 
> Hmmm.  The last time I fooled around with Lisp was 1966 from the Lisp 
> 1.5 Manual Published by MIT in cloth.  It was interesting and different 
> from the other languages I was using, Algol 60, Basic and Macro 
> assembler for the GE-235 and GE-635.  When I read some of the over the 
> top type hype by Lisp enthusiasts (like the stuff above) it feels like a 
> flash back to the mid 60's.

Not sure I understand why, unless you mean folks were raving about Lisp 
in the 60s. Today's raving is about a much different language, though 
the core elegance remains, and is as much about the contrast with other 
languages as it is about the pleasure of Lisp itself. Those raving about 
Lisp are quite accomplished at all those other languages, and know about 
  what they are talking. I doubt the Pythonistas weighing in on this 
thread ever got far at all with Lisp, so... should they really be 
offering comparative analysis?

>  Personally, I never like Lisp syntax; 
> Clearly some people, some fanatic judging by this thread :) think easily 
> in prefix.  I am not one of them. 

Yeah, you are, you just did not use it heads down for a month. The way 
to tell if you spent enough time on Lisp is to look at Lisp code. If you 
see any parentheses, you have not spent enough time. They disappear in a 
month.

The typical Pythonista values clean code but trembles in the face of 
macros, which exist to hide boilerplate. That means the only thing 
showing in any given block of code is exactly the interesting variable 
and function names. Talk about readability.

> Computer languages are tools and 
> everyone should pick the ones that they are most comfortable and 
> productive with.

No, languages are not interchangeable. Python is a fine language, but 
Lisp is much more expressive/powerful.

> 
> Six years ago, when I drifted back into programming, I had to learn 
> about Object Oriented programming and C++.  I used Python as a means to 
> update my programming skills (limited though they are) by 30 years or 
> so.  It was a wonderful intro to OO and served me well.  I ended up 
> writing all kinds of little things for work (simple HTTP servers for 
> load testing, ECAD hacks for the ASIC guys, even a register level chip 
> simulator) Even better, I find it a pleasure to write small utilities, 
> to prototype C code and generally do things quickly.  I use it by choice 
> to get things done, not because it is mandated.  At my current job as a 
> Systems Engineer for a large aerospace firm, I do not program daily, but 
> when I need to write a quick hack, I always use Python.

Much of Lisp's power would be lost on a non-programmer, but Lisp might 
make a programmer out of a non-programmer if they had it in them. You 
might have the right language for you because what Python does have is 
lotsa libraries, and if you are just hacking scripts to glue together 
libraries the expressiveness of Lisp is more than offset by the better 
library support in Python.

ken

-- 
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm

"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
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