Pros/Cons of Turbogears/Rails?

[Ray]

Paul Boddie wrote:
> > But at least in most developers' perception, it is (not necessarily in
> > the absolute sense, but perhaps relative to Django or Turbogears).
> > Mind, it doesn't even need to be true, we're talking of perception
> > here.
>
> So actual maturity isn't important when using a technology: it's
> "perceived maturity" that counts, right?

Well depends on "counts" in what sense. Counts as in the managers up
there perceive something as mature, despite proofs of the contrary,
certainly "counts", because then we'll end up having to work with a
probably immature technology (nothing about RoR here, I'm talking in
general). Yet with more people using it, its actual maturity will
inevitably rise as well, maybe eventually to a level near that of its
perceived maturity.

"Counts" as in to us developers who are actually spending our lives
doing this? Perhaps yes too. If you're well-versed in something that is
widely perceived to be mature, you may find it easier to win bread for
your family, even if you have a painful time using it.

> Any continuation down that
> particular path of reasoning surely leads you to the point where you
> claim, in concert with the developers, that increasing levels of
> inconvenience caused by gratuitous changes or broken documentation is
> not caused by bugs or general immaturity but by "features". I guess
> this is the definition of "opinionated software" that some people are
> so excited about.
>
> [...]
>
> > Sadly, there are more Java guys who know about Ruby than Python,
> > despite the fact that Python predates Ruby by quite a few years...
> > (this must be that Bruce Tate dude's fault! )
>
> If you only listen to Bruce Tate et al, I imagine you could have the
> above impression, but I'd be interested to see hard facts to back up
> those assertions.

Yeah, see, the thing is that Python is not lacking luminaries endorsing
it either, e.g.: Eric Raymond and Bruce Eckel. But for some reason this
"Python is good" meme is not that viral. I wonder why...

And, since when do hard facts matter anyway? I've met a number of
people who've told me they'd program in Eiffel if they could. And hey,
perhaps in its day Eiffel *was* the best OO language out there.
Certainly it looked cleaner than C++! :)

 
> Paul