Python + Java Integration

[Chas Emerick]

On Aug 23, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Ben Sizer wrote:

> Chas Emerick wrote:
>> There is no doubt that Ruby's success is a concern for anyone who
>> sees it as diminishing Python's status.  One of the reasons for
>> Ruby's success is certainly the notion (originally advocated by Bruce
>> Tate, if I'm not mistaken) that it is the "next Java" -- the language
>> and environment that mainstream Java developers are, or will, look to
>> as a natural next step.
>
> Is it? I thought it was more along the lines of "you've been  
> struggling
> with Java to build web-apps all this time - here, have Ruby on Rails
> which is much easier". Python provides just as much simplicity in the
> web frameworks, but no consensus on what is 'best' (recent BDFL
> pronouncement aside), and thus only a small community for each
> framework. I bet that if Django or TurboGears had been fully ready for
> prime-time before Ruby on Rails, we wouldn't be having this  
> discussion.

There's a lot of truth in that, but there's no doubt that there is a  
meme out there that Ruby is the "next Java", regardless of any  
technical facts.  This is all marketing and perception, which is why  
I was positing JPype as being a wildcard that could help Python  
significantly by providing an easy migration path for Java folk who  
are tied to specific libraries.

>> One thing that would help Python in this "debate" (or, perhaps simply
>> put it in the running, at least as a "next Java" candidate)
>
> Java itself never deserved to be the 'next' anything anyway. It was
> sold on hype and has never lived up to it. I can see your point from a
> business perspective but I like to think Python is sold on its merits
> and not on being the new panacea for middle managers to deploy.

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine recently, where I  
told him how depressed I became for a period after I realized that  
sales, marketing, and perception are all that really matter in this  
kooky technical world we spend so much time in.  For years I thought  
that "most people" make technical decisions based on the facts on the  
ground and the merits of each alternative.  While that's a great  
ideal to aspire to, it's not realistic as long as technical  
laypersons make very technical decisions -- in such an environment,  
heuristics, guidelines, and rules-of-thumb rule.  Ergo, it's good to  
have marketing firepower, because that can move the needle on rules- 
of-thumb *really* easily.

So, back on topic, I think regardless of how we got here, or who's  
better (Ruby or Python -- and really, it's better for the larger  
universe of 'agile' languages to grow anyway), if we want to improve  
Python's attractiveness to mainstream Java developers and their  
managers, providing (and promoting!) an easy migration route like  
JPype is a no-brainer.

Cheers,

Chas Emerick
Founder, Snowtide Informatics Systems
Enterprise-class PDF content extraction

cemerick at snowtide.com
http://snowtide.com
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