(was Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Criticism vs Constructive Criticism)

[bruce]

but you know...

one could simply hit the delete/skip button when you see a msg you don't
like!!! or email/spam filters... or you can spend more time complaining.. in
life, you gotta' learn to pick your battles...

peace..




-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+bedouglas=earthlink.net at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+bedouglas=earthlink.net at python.org]On Behalf
Of Tagore Smith
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:43 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: (was Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Criticism vs Constructive
Criticism)


John Bokma wrote:
> "Tagore Smith" <tagore at tagoresmith.com> wrote:
>
> > Your emails to his ISP
> > are far more wasteful- you are using up very scarce resources
> > dedicated to dealing with real abuse.
>
> According to his hosting provider dreamhost:
> <quote>
> I have warned this user that excessive offtopic cross-posting is not
> allowed, and explained that if he doesn't quit he risks losing his
> account. If you (or anyone else) notice this in the future, please do not
> hesitate to submit another report.
> </quote>

Precisely: you have wasted the time of someone who might otherwise have
spent that time dealing with real abuse. You got the standard email
sent out to placate people like you. That was my point. Try sending
mail to abuse at (any of my) desmesne(s). You won't get a response- in
fact, no-one will read your mail. We just don't have the resources to
deal with the easily offended. Too bad- we wouldn't mind handling real
abuse, though it is unlikely given our selective set of users.

I'm not sure that Xah's post was offtopic, and I am not sure how to
determine that objectively. I am sure that it was excessively
crossposted. I also know that Xah was posting to Usenet a long time
before you, and that he will still be posting to Usenet long after you
have given up in disgust, no matter who you complain to.

> Reread it a few times, it might educate you (note the *cross-posting* and
> the *submit another report*)

I think I've mentioned the crossposting in every message I have posted
on this thread, and that I don't approve of crossposting. I'm not sure
that you are in a position to educate me, and that you suggest that you
are is, frankly, obnoxious. I've been civil so far.

> (Rest of your misinterpretation snipped).

You can snip the important part, but that won't make the point go away.


I happen to have been working in this industry for a long time. I have
a lot of friends working at, and running, various enterprises. Some of
those enterprises handle a lot of the internet's traffic, measured by
packets at least. If I were really ethically impaired I could easily
mess up internet access for a "list of people I don't like". A call
from a backbone provider is not as ignorable as a random email to
abuse at whateverlittleISP.com.

But I am not ethically impaired (or at least not ethically impaired in
that way). Every young sysadmin learns a simple thing: "you have
disproportionate power, don't abuse it".  Sometimes you have to read
people's mail, to diagnose a problem. If they are into weird bondage
stuff you avert your eyes, and you _never_ tell anyone (though I think
you are allowed to look at them funny at the company picnic). If they
are into child porn you call the cops, I think (the ethics are fuzzy
here, but this is my conclusion).

Crossposting is bad, unless it serves a specific purpose- Xah's post
obviously doesn't. I dont like people reporting on Usenet posters to
their ISPs, but... I can't really complain about that. Crossposting is
not good, without a really good justification.

But you are complaining about the content of his posts, and harassing
his ISP based on that.  That's not just bad, it is wicked. You can
quote whatever you want from their emails, but I won't change my mind
on this subject- Xah shouldn't crosspost, but otherwise he should be
allowed to post.

Would you like a Usenet campaign started to disrupt your internet
access? You would be angry if that were done, and justifiably.

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